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Marginal value of offensive and defensive rebounds

 
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Ed Küpfer



Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 745
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:08 am    Post subject: Marginal value of offensive and defensive rebounds Reply with quote

Using almost three complete seasons' worth of stats, I regressed individual player rebounding % against team rebounding %, for offensive and defensive rebounding. To qualify, players must have had at least 800 rebounding opportunities (both OR and DR) for a single team in one season. (Thanks to Roland for the data.) There were 994 players in my sample. Here's what they looked like:



Note the slope for each regression line -- it is four times greater for offensive rebounds.

Explanatory note for statistics newbs: the "regression line" is the line of best fit, which serves to explain as much of the relationship between the two variables (player OR% vs team OR%) as possible. The "slope" is the angle of the regression line. In the first graph, the slope is 0.2462 -- for every 1% increase in player OR%, team OR% increases by 0.2462%.

I divided up the sample into four different groups based on player height, each group containing about 250 players. You can see that for each group, the slope for the OR% line remains about 4 times greater than the slope of the DR% line.






The only way I can interpet this is to say that each player has a greater impact on his team's OR% than he does on the DR%. I read the results as saying that each percentage that a player adds in OR% has four times the impact as he does for DR%.
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Mike G



Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 3293
Location: Delphi, Indiana

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work, Ed !

It does indeed support the idea that if player A doesn't get the DR, teammate B or C is likely to get it. But only one player (or none) has a chance at a given OR.

Your "impact" conclusion might be open to a bit of interpretation. If an OR-attempt is analagous to a steal-attempt, might there be an opposite "impact" by going for and missing an OR ? That is, a potential positive effect on offense might have a negative impact on the defense. In other words, the guard who was crashing the offensive glass -- coming up empty -- wasn't back to cover his man at the other end.

Coaching/playing style varies enough from team to team, that it's plausible OR are less common and more difficult because some teams see even greater value in getting back on D. It's not hard (or rare) to get back on D, but it is essential.
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gabefarkas



Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 1255
Location: Durham, NC

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i agree with your interpretations, and have an additional one of my own:

guys that are "supposed to rebound" (taller than 6-foot-7) have less of an impact than rebounds from guys who are shorter. almost like those are bonus rebounds in a way.
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jkubatko



Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 702
Location: Columbus, OH

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed,

Based on your sample data, do all of the population regression lines have slopes that significantly differ from zero?

On a few of those plots (for example, offensive rebounding percentage for player 6'5" to 6'7") there are some highly influential observations. I would guess the removal of the two observations on the far right-hand side of the plot I mentioned would have a dramatic effect on the parameter estimates.
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Ed Küpfer



Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 745
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jkubatko wrote:
Based on your sample data, do all of the population regression lines have slopes that significantly differ from zero?


The slopes on the OR% were all very significant, some of the DR% weren't:

Code:
VAR        Coef    SE Coef      VAR        Coef     SE Coef

OR%      0.246**   (0.027)      DR%       0.062**   (0.016)    -- All players

OR%_1    0.558**   (0.184)      DR%_1     0.161     (0.082)    -- 6'4 or less
OR%_2    0.541**   (0.071)      DR%_2     0.021     (0.049)    -- 6'5 to 6'7
OR%_3    0.459**   (0.061)      DR%_3     0.079*    (0.036)    -- 6'8 to 6'9
OR%_4    0.500**   (0.061)      DR%_4     0.122**   (0.040)    -- 6'10 or taller

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gkrndija



Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting graphs. Does that mean defensive rebounding is less sloped because it's more of a function of the various opposition rebounding philosophies than their own ability?

Also does rebounding% factor in FTA/FGA or missed FT's? For example, Utah is a half court team and likes to play very slow. Yet, they send the other team to the line more than any other team in the league. As a result they not only get more easy boards, but because of their slow pace these gimmes receive abnormal value. Coincidently, they are one of the better rebounding teams.

At the other end of the spectrum, Phoenix plays ridiculuously fast but they are the "worst" at sending the other team to the line. As a result, they get very few freebies, while also having these "rebounds" count for an abnormal value. Have they been getting a raw deal on the defensive glass?
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Ed Küpfer



Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 745
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gkrndija wrote:
Does that mean defensive rebounding is less sloped because it's more of a function of the various opposition rebounding philosophies than their own ability?


Hey, good question. It deserves to be tackled with a little more depth, but for now I can point to the following table, which shows season-to-season within-player correlation for OR% and DR%. That is, the correlation for player's reb% between season 1 and season 2 (or team 1 and team 2 if that player had played for two teams in one season and had been on the floor for 800+ rebounding opportunities). I've further separated these players into ones who played season 1 and season 2 for the same teams, and those who played for different teams. This is an attempt to see how much team play encourages rebounding.

Code:
                r_OR   r_DR   n

<= 6'4  Diff    0.36   0.59   90
        Same    0.76   0.77   61

6'5-6'7 Diff    0.73   0.49   73
        Same    0.84   0.76   95

6'8-6'9 Diff    0.78   0.74   71
        Same    0.86   0.78   78

>= 6'10 Diff    0.50   0.57   71
        Same    0.74   0.82  104


You can see that players who stay on the same team have a higher correlation to their previous season's reb% than players who change teams. This suggests to me that teams' philosophy on rebounding has a significant effect on individual player rebounding numbers.

gkrndija wrote:
Also does rebounding% factor in FTA/FGA or missed FT's? For example, Utah is a half court team and likes to play very slow. Yet, they send the other team to the line more than any other team in the league. As a result they not only get more easy boards, but because of their slow pace these gimmes receive abnormal value. Coincidently, they are one of the better rebounding teams.


The correlation between rebounding% and FTA/poss is very low, almost zero -- at least for this season.
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gkrndija



Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed Küpfer wrote:


Code:
                r_OR   r_DR   n

<= 6'4  Diff    0.36   0.59   90
        Same    0.76   0.77   61

6'5-6'7 Diff    0.73   0.49   73
        Same    0.84   0.76   95

6'8-6'9 Diff    0.78   0.74   71
        Same    0.86   0.78   78

>= 6'10 Diff    0.50   0.57   71
        Same    0.74   0.82  104



Wow, I would have thought offensive rebounding for the big men on different teams would have remained more consistent since I always considered it a skill and they're normally close to the basket.

Am I right to assume a slope of zero on a linear regression makes it a contant. At what slope does it make a stat meaningless. For example, OppFT% should be constant throughout the league, but some teams differ by almost 5%.


Ed Küpfer wrote:

The correlation between rebounding% and FTA/poss is very low, almost zero -- at least for this season.


My original post is poorly written and ambigious. It was supposed to question the formula for defensive rebounding %. My understanding of the equation is:

DefReb% = OwnDefReb/(OwnDefReb + OppOffReb)

or put another way:

DefReb%=

OwnDefRebMFGA + OwnDefRebMFTA
[(OwnDefRebMFGA + OwnDefRebMFTA) + OppOffReb]

Thoretically, a team could have be the best defensive rebounding team in the leauge if they fouled the opposition on every play and never allowed a real FGA since those rebounds are automatic. Although Utah doesn't do this, they do limit the DefRebMFGAs because of their pace. But since they send the other team to the line so often, it unfairly raises their OwnDefRebMFTA and, by default, their DefReb%.

According to ESPN.com their their DefensiveReb% is 72.5%. But using a formula that neglects their OwnRefRebMFTA:

TrueDebReb% =

OwnDefReb - OppMFT*.5
[(OwnDefReb - OppMFT*.5) + OppOffReb]

As a result their true Defensive Rebounding % is 69.4%.

Consequently, a team could have the worst rebounding % if they never sent the other team to the line. Phoenix rarely sends the other team to the line and give them a high number of FGAs, thus increasing the oppositions chance at a rebound.

Their Defensive Reb% is 68%. But using the formula above, it is 66%. Although it is still poor, they are a less worse rebounding team than Utah.

Although the difference seems negligable, the effect at the individual level is more profound. Mehmet Okur has a rebounding rate of 16.5 according to KnickerBlogger.net. But he is most likely to get these free boards.

My understanding of individual DefReb% is

IndDefReb% =

IndDefReb
(IndMinPerGame/48)*(TeamDefReb + OppOffReb)

but using a formula that neglects Rebounds from FT's:

TrueIndDefReb%:

IndDefReb - [(IndMinPerGame/48)*(OppMFTAS)*0.5*0.5]
(IndMinPerGame/48)*(TeamDefReb- OppMFT*.5 + OppOffReb)

Mehmet Okur and Shawn Marion have a Rebounding Rate, which accounts for offensive and defensive rebounds, of 16.5 and 15.6 respectively, according to knickerblogger.net. But from the equation above, Memo and the Matrix have a TrueIndDefReb% of 19.6 and 20.7. Shawn Marion is a better defensive rebounder.
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