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Current BoP Stats
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Neil Paine



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 774
Location: Atlanta, GA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry about the long delay between posts. I don't know what was up with APBRmetrics this past week, with that virus and everything. Hopefully it won't happen again...

Stats thru 3/29/2008

Glossary of Terms

NOTE:I've updated the WARP formula to assume that the average player's usage/efficiency trade-off is +/-1.25 points of ORtg for every +/-1% of %Poss, per Eli's new research. I've also reformulated MRP based on 2007-08 salary data (thanks go out to Patricia Bender for posting this season's salaries); the formula is now: MRP = $580000 + ($1500000*WARP).
MRP MVP Race:
Code:
Player          Tm      Pos     Min     ORtg    %Pos    DRtg    WARP    WARPr       MRP
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
paul,chris      nor     PG      2599    125.2   28.6    104.2   17.98   0.249   $31,050,348
james,lebron    cle     SF      2724    116.4   34.2    104.5   17.05   0.225   $29,459,539
bryant,kobe     lal     SG      2843    113.6   31.1    105.1   14.77   0.187   $25,606,492
stoudemire,amarepho     C       2373    123.2   26.5    104.7   14.52   0.220   $25,171,775
nowitzki,dirk   dal     PF      2500    118.2   27.9    104.1   14.07   0.203   $24,421,851
billups,chaunceydet     PG      2338    126.7   24.4    106.3   13.91   0.214   $24,144,765
howard,dwight   orl     C       2827    113.5   24.7    99.6    13.69   0.174   $23,771,899
pierce,paul     bos     SF      2657    114.2   25.0    100.6   12.96   0.176   $22,537,653
ginobili,manu   san     SG      2140    116.8   29.2    101.1   12.90   0.217   $22,437,005
garnett,kevin   bos     PF      2129    116.8   24.9    94.9    12.89   0.218   $22,425,100
iverson,allen   den     PG      3056    115.1   27.0    109.8   12.80   0.151   $22,266,180
duncan,tim      san     C       2391    110.4   28.3    97.7    12.34   0.186   $21,488,046
williams,deron  uta     PG      2742    118.4   25.3    110.7   11.77   0.155   $20,519,986
boozer,carlos   uta     PF      2521    113.0   26.2    103.9   11.27   0.161   $19,680,635
nash,steve      pho     PG      2499    120.4   25.0    112.7   10.75   0.155   $18,793,814
bosh,chris      tor     PF      2053    116.8   27.5    105.9   10.50   0.184   $18,362,318
davis,baron     gsw     PG      2836    111.9   26.4    109.0   10.34   0.131   $18,097,113
jamison,antawn  was     PF      2806    111.7   25.0    107.0   10.23   0.131   $17,919,513
ming,yao        hou     C       2044    111.8   27.0    99.9    10.07   0.177   $17,633,900
calderon,jose   tor     PG      2246    126.9   19.7    109.1   9.82    0.157   $17,210,609
iguodala,andre  phi     SG      2872    109.4   24.0    105.4   9.56    0.120   $16,768,959
turkoglu,hedo   orl     SF      2757    111.1   24.8    107.6   9.46    0.124   $16,613,546
allen,ray       bos     SG      2394    116.3   20.9    104.0   9.45    0.142   $16,586,227
anthony,carmelo den     SF      2495    109.1   29.5    107.8   9.38    0.135   $16,468,787
jefferson,al    min     PF      2542    109.1   27.0    107.2   8.88    0.126   $15,619,812
roy,brandon     por     SG      2569    112.4   25.6    110.1   8.86    0.124   $15,594,290
lewis,rashard   orl     SF      2820    114.9   19.9    107.5   8.67    0.111   $15,265,810
maggette,corey  lac     SF      2285    113.6   26.5    110.4   8.64    0.136   $15,223,232
jefferson,richarnjn     SF      2882    111.9   25.1    112.6   8.52    0.106   $15,015,728
ellis,monta     gsw     PG      2690    117.8   21.3    112.0   8.51    0.114   $15,001,650


Last edited by Neil Paine on Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mountain



Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 1527

PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Study of MRP / actual salary for sweet points to see which income band they are more often in and at which position or role or "player type" would interest me.
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Neil Paine



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 774
Location: Atlanta, GA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Final Regular-Season BoP Stats

Glossary of Terms

Leaderboard & Awards:
(Minimum 500 Minutes)
Most Points Produced: Kobe Bryant, LA (2240)
Most Possessions Used: Kobe Bryant (1948)
Highest ORtg: Carl Landry, HOU (130.0)
Highest %Poss: Dwyane Wade, MIA (34.0%)
Lowest DRtg: Kevin Garnett, BOS (94.4)
Highest Floor%: Carl Landry (.649)
Most Defensive Stops: Dwight Howard, ORL (792)
Highest Stop%: Amir Johnson, DET (.692)
Most Touches/Min: Chris Paul, NO (2.49)
Highest % of touches that were passes: Jose Calderon, TOR (81%)
Highest % of touches that were shots: Rodney Carney, PHI (58%)
Highest % of touches that drew fouls: Leon Powe, BOS (29%)
Lowest % of touches that were turnovers: Rasual Butler, NO (2%)
Most Minutes/Game: Allen Iverson, DEN (41.8 )
Most Points/36 Minutes: LeBron James, CLE (27.4)
Highest 2-point FG %: Erick Dampier, DAL (.643)
Highest 3-point FG%: Jason Kapono, TOR (.483)
Highest Free Throw %: Brent Barry, SA (.950)
Highest True Shooting %: Andrew Bynum, LA (.659)
Highest Estimated % of FG Assisted: Malik Allen, NJ (.79)
Lowest Estimated % of FG Assisted: Chris Paul (.29)
Highest % of team shots taken while on the floor: LeBron James (32.2%)
Best Assist Ratio: Chris Paul (52.3)
Worst Assist Ratio: Dikembe Mutombo, HOU (1.2)
Best Turnover Ratio: Rasual Butler (4.4)
Worst Turnover Ratio: Hilton Armstrong, NO (26.6)
Best Pure Point Ratio: Chris Paul (13.83)
Worst Pure Point Ratio: David Harrison, IND (-6.88 )
Most Dribbling touches per 36 minutes: Chris Paul (84.2)
Fewest Dribbling touches per 36 minutes: Dikembe Mutombo (8.9)
Highest Free Throw Rate: Michael Ruffin, MIL (101.6)
Lowest Free Throw Rate: Malik Allen (5.0)
Highest 3-Point Tendency: Damon Jones, CLE (76.0%)
Lowest 3-Point Tendency: Many tied at 0.0%
Best Offensive Reb %: Michael Ruffin (16.1%)
Worst Offensive Reb %: Damon Jones (0.4%)
Best Defensive Reb %: Dwight Howard (31.6%)
Worst Defensive Reb %: Earl Boykins, CHA (5.0%)
Best Blocked Shot %: Amir Johnson (8.4%)
Best Steal %: Chris Paul (3.9%)

Lowest Per-Minute WARP Rate: Mardy Collins, New York (-0.082 WARP/36 Min)
2007-08 MRP Least Valuable Player: Jeff McInnis, Charlotte (-1.64 WARP, -$1,873,750 Fair Salary)
Highest Per-Minute WARP Rate: Chris Paul, New Orleans (0.244 WARP/36 Min)
2007-08 MRP Most Valuable Player: Chris Paul, New Orleans (20.41 WARP, $31,189,575 Fair Salary)
Runners Up: LeBron James, Cleveland (18.81 WARP, $28,800,320) and Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles (17.10 WARP, $26,228,631)


Last edited by Neil Paine on Mon May 05, 2008 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Neil Paine



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 774
Location: Atlanta, GA

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Playoff BoP Stats (Thru Round 1)

Glossary of Terms


Last edited by Neil Paine on Wed May 21, 2008 9:46 am; edited 2 times in total
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Neil Paine



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 774
Location: Atlanta, GA

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Playoff BoP Stats (Thru Round 2)

Glossary of Terms


Last edited by Neil Paine on Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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Neil Paine



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 774
Location: Atlanta, GA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Playoff BoP Stats (Thru Conference Finals)

Glossary of Terms


Last edited by Neil Paine on Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mountain



Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 1527

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does the replacement player reference point remain at regular season level?
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Neil Paine



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 774
Location: Atlanta, GA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, pretty much. Technically it changes based on the league's average offensive rating, but in this case the RS average (108.2) is exactly the same as the postseason average.
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Neil Paine



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 774
Location: Atlanta, GA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UPDATE:Playoff BoP Stats (Thru Finals) - Now with statistical +/-!

Glossary of Terms

Playoffs MVP: Kevin Garnett, Boston

Thanks for a great season, everybody!
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Mike G



Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 3293
Location: Delphi, Indiana

PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did Garnett have the most WARP for just the Finals, as well as for the entire playoffs?

Garnett has 3.95 over 26 games; Kobe had 3.54 in just 21 G. That's .169 W/G for Kobe, and .152 for KG.
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Neil Paine



Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 774
Location: Atlanta, GA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, Ray Allen had the most WARP (1.07) of anyone in the Finals. 4 Celtics (Allen, Pierce, Garnett, Posey) had better Finals than Kobe, the leading Laker, and he barely beat out Rondo and Powe.

On the playoffs, Kobe and KG were essentially equal on a per-minute basis.
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Mike G



Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 3293
Location: Delphi, Indiana

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

davis21wylie2121 wrote:
Actually, Ray Allen had the most WARP (1.07) of anyone in the Finals. 4 Celtics (Allen, Pierce, Garnett, Posey) had better Finals than Kobe, the leading Laker, and he barely beat out Rondo and Powe.

I wonder how many of us believe Powe was contributing almost as much as Kobe, or that Posey was 'better'; or that Allen was the best?

eWins placed them thus:
.95 Garnett
.85 Pierce
.75 Allen
.71 Kobe
.56 Rondo
...
.20 Powe
.18 Posey

Which is more reasonable?
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benji



Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that not similar to arguing that a model is superior because it gives you the results you desire?
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Mike G



Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 3293
Location: Delphi, Indiana

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the questions I posed may seem like an argument, but maybe that's because the answers seem obvious. I wouldn't have to ask any assemblage of fans, coaches, players, etc, whether Kobe was better than Powe or Posey; or whether they'd trade Kobe for one of these others (or both); etc.

So I asked how people reading this here forum feel about it. A model that returns absurd results should be questioned. I'm not saying these results are absurd, but they're questionable.

One mental exercise is to wonder how the teams would have fared if Kobe and Posey were switched. There could be chemistry issues for the Celtics. Would Posey have shot 70% with LA?

If you can imagine a plausible scenario, in which LA wins 2 of 6 while starting Posey -- vs an alltime defense, in which Kobe is the best of 4 potent scorers -- then you have a fertile imagination. And that's a good thing.

The standard BoP argument here is that Posey did his job as a 6th man better than Kobe did his job as the go-to guy. That's probably true. But without Kobe, the Lakers don't win more than one game (if they're lucky). Without Posey, do the Celts win just 1, or 0?
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Ryan J. Parker



Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 682
Location: Raleigh, NC

PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A model that returns absurd results should be questioned.


All models will give absurd results if we're not interpreting them correctly.

Are we trying to say that we can use WARP to compare players on different teams to determine who had a better game (or series), especially those players that do not have similar roles? If that's what we're trying to say, then that is what I would consider to be absurd.
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