Daily Roundup 2.01.07
Posted on Thursday, February 1st, 2007 at 10:35 am by Xteve
Lots of rumblings & grumblings in the press today about Bob Hill’s future.
Start with the P-I.
Hill said he realizes that sometimes coaches can be removed because of circumstances, not performance or effort.
“(Previous coach) Bobby Weiss never had a chance,” he said. “I really believe it was no one’s fault. The (Howard Schultz) ownership group and those guys offered guys contracts they thought they deserved and three guys came to camp with qualifying offers and none of them were happy. We had injuries and we had six guys on the team that didn’t want to be here. Enduring that was awful. That was hard. As for me, I’m very realistic about the position I’m in and the team is in. I think there’s a good team here. I know there is.”
I really liked this article. I know a lot of folks don’t like Hill but I’m not one of them. He was the only guy in ages who was willing to play our young players and recognize the importance of developing big men. In a way I think this roster has proven to be a no-win situation for any coach and from his comments I think Hill knows that.
Proving the old axiom that even a blind squirrel can find a nut once in a while, Steve Kelley nails it.
The drum beat has begun on NBA blogs and inside the league’s rumor mill, saying Hill is about to be fired. I don’t think firing Hill is the answer. I think it’s the quick, cosmetic solution. I think it’s too easy blaming Hill and even easier to fire him.
But this season isn’t all his fault. Not even close.
It’s too easy to do a cosmetic housecleaning, stick Lenny in charge … as if that’s a long term fix?? Who are they kidding? As I’ve said many times I am waiting to see some leadership from ownership. I realize they have a lot on their plate now but they’ve got some decisions to make. I say if it is time to clean house then do so completely. Installing the fourth new coach in three years only serves to indicate that coaching isn’t the problem.
Things so bad even Ray Allen probably won’t make the All-Star reserves. Dayyeem.
Game recap from the Times … Nick had another outstanding outing that came to naught. Could he put up those kind of numbers at the PF position next year with Robert or someone else at center?
“One of the things we suffer from is (geographic location),” Sonics coach Bob Hill said. “I thought when (Shareef) Abdur-Rahim played in Vancouver, he was one of the best rookies in the league. I always thought because he was way up there in Vancouver, he didn’t get the publicity or notoriety he should have. I think sometimes we suffer from the same thing.”
I disagree with that in this case. There is an East Coast bias but the main reason why Gelly didn’t make it is 1) his counting stats aren’t as superficially impressive as say, Adam Morrison’s who has been the very definition of 1-dimensional this year, and 2) this is the 6th worst team in the league. I agree with Frank that he probably should have made it in over Jordan Farmar & Millsap, but the difference is those guys play on winning teams. That’s also the reason it was hard for Shareef to get noticed, not primarily because he played on the West Coast but because his Grizz teams were terrible. Frank also says Danny could very well be waived (wouldn’t surprise me a bit) and that inquiries were made regarding Gasol, also not a surprise.
February 1st, 2007 at 10:44 am
Why would you waive someone who’s expiring contract is attractive to teams trying to trim payroll?
February 1st, 2007 at 10:45 am
I figured everything out!! The Sonics are doing so poorly on the road because they want the NBA to realize that being in Seattle is very important to them. If the Sonics move to OKC then they will go 0-82, considering they are incapable of playing well anywhere else but the Pacific NW
February 1st, 2007 at 10:54 am
“Why would you waive someone who’s expiring contract is attractive to teams trying to trim payroll? ”
You wouldn’t until after the trade deadline.
February 1st, 2007 at 10:57 am
“Why would you waive someone who’s expiring contract is attractive to teams trying to trim payroll?”
I’d assume we’re one of the ones trying to trim payroll.
Danny’s played his last game here IMO, they can’t run him back out on the court and risk him actually playing well and the fans getting excited only to waive him three days later. It’s not fair to the fans, the team or Danny.
February 1st, 2007 at 11:25 am
Big decision time coming up for the owners. Is this core (Ray, Rashard, Collison, Wilcox) good enough that if we add the right pieces, can be a contending team? Or does it need to be blown up? Do you do it now before the trade deadline if you are going to blow it up or do you wait until the offseason? If you are looking to just add pieces that give you a better overall roster do you do it now and risk ending the season strong resulting in a worse draft pick position or do you waint until the offseason to mix and match?
Unfortunately, with the injuries to Ray and Rashard it has made it diffifuclt to fairly assess this roster and its chances to be a contender if some tweaks are made. I’ve got some fun ideas, but I’ll spare everyone the 4 trade scenarios that I think could tweak the current roster and make it a contender. Ahhhhh, beauty is definately in the eye of the beholder.
February 1st, 2007 at 11:45 am
I never liked Hill as an assistant much less a HC. From the research I did on him he appeared to be arrogant, egotistical and disliked by many people. The fact that he had been out of the NBA for a decade made the decision to let him take the reigns at one of the most critical junctures in Sonic history was completely unfathomable. His record certainly speaks for itself.
But at the same time I agree with Kelley that Hill is somewhat the least of the problems. I think most fans recognize this and that is the reason there is not the big “Fire Hill” campaign one might expect.
Personally I think he’s been a bit better than my worst fears. I think he has a pretty good basketball mind, but between him and his staff they seem to have little ability to communicate a direction to the players or make quality adjustments.
But the bottom line is there are far superior coaches out there. We may disagree on whether Hill is a 5 or a 7 or a 3 on a 10 scale, but he’s not a 9+ and with only 30 NBA jobs available you need a 9+. However that happens it has to happen.
February 1st, 2007 at 12:18 pm
I agree with most of that on Hill WMG2.
I have mixed views about Sund as GM selecting players but his track record on selecting coaches is 2-3 good ones and 5+ weak ones.
I don’t follow football but I heard Holmgren talking once about scripting play sequences. A coach needs to be good at that and read, adjust/react. I don’t know where Hill scores on these two parts for his time here or career but any coach should be evaluated on both. I don’t know if last 2 games 1st quarters were because of really strong scripts and then later in the game not good enough read, adjust/react (probably a lot more complex than that) but a GM should be on top of that.
February 1st, 2007 at 12:23 pm
I agree with Frank that he probably should have made it in over Jordan Farmar & Millsap, but the difference is those guys play on winning teams.
I think it has more to do with those players being in their team’s rotation for the entire season. Gelabale had been anchored to the bench for quite awhile.
I can understand the reasoning in retaining Hill for the remainder of the season, especially if he was only going to be replaced by an interim. However, if the Sonics have a chance to get a quality coach like Adelman now but end up losing him (and other quality candidates) to other teams this summer due to being too slow to pull the trigger on Hill, then i’d be PO’d.
I know Steve’s argument… my response is, if you’re going to hire a GM that doesn’t approve of Adelman as coach, then you’re hiring the wrong GM.
February 1st, 2007 at 12:27 pm
“I know Steve’s argument… my response is, if you’re going to hire a GM that doesn’t approve of Adelman as coach, then you’re hiring the wrong GM. ”
I totally agree with you, but the flaw in your argument is right now the team can’t tell Adelman what his roster is going to look like or who his boss will be next year. I doubt Adelman or any other top candidate is going to be OK with that.
February 1st, 2007 at 12:33 pm
BLINDING FLASH OF LIGHT.
Many agree that our problems stem from the PG position. But with such a focus on the bigs the past few years adding Sikma and Dethlef, etc….. who coaches the guards?
Is it Chiesa? This from his bio
“The 53-year-old’s primary responsibilities with the Jazz included preparing the team for games by simulating opponents’ offensive and defensive sets, coordinating the team’s advance pro scouts and working with PERIMETER players on skill development.”
I cannot think who on this staff would be a PG coach. Maybe this is a reason we appear so rudderless at times.
February 1st, 2007 at 12:34 pm
The other difficult part in analyzing Hill this season is that our roster is such a mess (bad overall construction) and injuries have really hammered us (Ray, Rashard, Swift), so it is a bit difficult to get a read on how successful Hill could be with this team.
The other factor is that someone like Flip Saunders might become available this offseason if his contract isn’t extended in Detroit. If the Sonics sign someone like Adelman now, is that wise if it precludes them from having a chance at someone like Flip Saunders? Or maybe everyone feels that Adelman is better than Saunders or equal to, at least.
Anyways, lots of angles.
February 1st, 2007 at 12:45 pm
Chiesa was working with Ridnour earlier in the year and IIRC Rid gave him a lot of credit for his mini-breakout earlier in the season.
“The other factor is that someone like Flip Saunders might become available this offseason if his contract isn’t extended in Detroit. If the Sonics sign someone like Adelman now, is that wise if it precludes them from having a chance at someone like Flip Saunders? Or maybe everyone feels that Adelman is better than Saunders or equal to, at least. ”
That certainly plays into it … from Adelman’s point of view it makes a lot of sense to wait until the end of the season. He’ll have his pick of available jobs and some of them may not open up until after the season’s over. Realistically this franchise probably has too much instability hanging over it right now to interest the top candidates. Usually the top guys aren’t interested in total rebuilds and who knows what this ownership group will do over the next few months?
February 1st, 2007 at 1:26 pm
This is a great quote from Kelly’s article.
“If firing Hill is the only change the Sonics make, it won’t mean a thing. It would be just one more tweak for a franchise that always seems to be tweaking its way to mediocrity.”
This was my problem with Wally, never taking the big chance. The Sonics have had bad seasons but never truly went into rebuilding or went for the fences for an all-star player.
I don’t think that they will be able to make any major changes before the trade deadline. There are too many unknowns about the current roster. Too many of the trade options, even the crazy one’s proposed here :0), require additional moves.
I think they wait out the season, fire Sund and Hill then hire a new GM and coach with a new and unified vision of what the roster should look like and what kind of bball they will play. They have spent almost 7-8 years acquiring pieces without a unified vision of what the team should look like. Dallas, Phoenix and SA have built teams with vision. Dallas even tweaked its blueprint, and gave up 2 quality players to make it happen. We need to do the same.
A friend of mine who knows Nate said that the disagreement about the style of play wore him down over time.
February 1st, 2007 at 1:35 pm
Speaking of bold moves!
Why dont we grab this guy right now?
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/APWires/basketball/D8N0IUOG0.html
February 1st, 2007 at 1:43 pm
Coaches scored on scripts and improvising… I should have added players can get breakout scores on both too.
And of course closing.
While there are a number of other issues, Ridnour’s clutch time stats for the season- on offense- are about as good as you could hope for. 55% eFG shooting for him, 60% team win%.
Watson clutch shooting 30% efg and team win % 23%.
Being a pretty big (but not exclsuive) numbers guy I’d definitely close with Ridnour to try to win a game. And it is pretty big part of the consideration of who to start/keep for next year and beyond.
I had been concerned that Ridnour win % has lagged 20% beyond Sonics as a whole for his previous career- and that was playing with starters. He was well above overall team win % his first 2 months but it has slipped so much in last month- playing more with subs- he is now essentially even to the average.The next 2 1/2 months and maybe the first few months of next season are his final exam in my eyes. I hope he gets back on track. Maybe he just isnt really a difference maker for starters or subs. Just a player with value mainly in his own stats.
Ships going in opposite directions but same final exam for Earl. He was significant below team average on win % early but has now caught up to even. Strong off bench last year, somewhat better as a starter rather than sub this year but final asessment still to come.
February 1st, 2007 at 1:46 pm
(behind not “beyond” in second to last paragraph above)
February 1st, 2007 at 1:47 pm
If that guy had a single NBA-quality skill other than being tall he would be in the league by now.
February 1st, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Lost a post. Want to comment but rewrite it all. Assume some other great details.
-IF they make a trade, it should be for Gasol or O’Neal. They would make the remaining perimeter player more efficient.
-Sonics need a winning coach. Someone the players would have a considerable buy-in with. They need a coach who has “been there.” This will help the players feel more confident about the process. Rick Adleman fits. Ownership could give him a role in the GM decision over the summer.
February 1st, 2007 at 1:58 pm
“Sonics need a winning coach. Someone the players would have a considerable buy-in with. They need a coach who has “been there.”
Well put. That goes for a new GM too, if possible.
February 1st, 2007 at 2:00 pm
They do need to agree on style of play and get GM, Coach, Players working at refining same approach.
Sonics pace has increased with new lineup but in 11 games they are 4-7.
February 1st, 2007 at 2:09 pm
Health issues for Ming reduced his effectiveness. Post surgery, he probably gets one more half-serious look. Supposedly he has fine jumpshooting touch but whether he can get close enough to an overall NBA capable player? the odds seems against given the historical track record, though a player that tall was less than a full set of skills might get a roster spot, as insurance and play 0-10 minutes occasionally. A niche player. Maybe he can surprise and get there.
February 1st, 2007 at 2:13 pm
As much as I love the Sonics, and so many of the guys on the club, and their individual potential, it’s clear the basketball organization is a mess. The thing is all over the place! They don’t know what sort of identity they want. The moves the GM makes aren’t congruent with the roster needs, and that’s been going on for a few years now. The coach preaches about a style of play all training camp, then we see something different to start the season. It’s clear the players aren’t sure of what type of offense to run. When to take the open shot, when to make the extra pass, when to force the ball to Ray, only to suffer whiplash watching fast breaks the other way. And the defense, well there isn’t a single guy on the club, save Gelebale, that even wants to play D.
Firing Hill, alone, isn’t the answer. Firing Sund, alone, is not the answer. This organization needs new life. From the GM, down. New GM, new coach, and for the love of God, new scouting and talent evaluating personnel, that might be able to come up with a player out of the lottery who can contribute, not just fill space!
It must be rebuilt. Given the timing with an arena proposal on it’s way to Olympia, there is certainly a problem there. But true basketball fans see the model, that you have to tear down and rebuild to have sustained success in the NBA. This won’t happen until everyone from the owner, down to the GM, to the coach, to the final guy on the bench, each know what they want this team to be, and are willing to give it time.
Until that happens, we’ll get a new coach every 1.5 years, and have French 7 footers tearing up the d-league, while playing below .500 ball up in the big show. I love this team, this franchise and these players. But I’d love to see a winner, in the Northwest, again.
February 1st, 2007 at 2:23 pm
That 4-7 is right at season win % but came during a stretch of 4 road, 7 home. So it is pretty bad.
Don’t know how starters performance rates overall. Bench has been weak and maybe more responsible for losing but really the starter/bench divide is really more of a combo and the key is to find the right blend for 4 quarters and against a variety of opponents.
Lewis returns, reshuffle according to current best guesses on team chemistry and player performance expectations in assigned roles.
February 1st, 2007 at 2:33 pm
Imperfect info from boxscores compiled at hoopsstats.com suggests Sonics starting lineup (with Ray & Rashard- and Luke) in November was winning pretty big in their time on court, that it slipped to half that in December and in January they are losing slightly.
Bench wasnt much in November, picked it up significantly in Dec. but slipped back a bit in Jan.
February 1st, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Picking players who arent down much or often is important.
I can’t pick anything quick and clearcut out of second half of season stats for last season but I would think second half of this season stats should be consulted carefully in assessing who to keep and emphasize in the rotation. Got to be able to compete hard 82 games, both ends of the court.
February 1st, 2007 at 3:21 pm
GOOD GOD 7′9 ????
What’up wit’all these Asians these days?
After last night game, I”m convinced this roster is bounded to be blown up by the end of this year.
Trade everyone but try to retain Luke, Rashard, Collison, Swift.
I like what I saw when both LUke and Rashard are on the floor,
Collison for his savy.
Swift I”m not ready to throw in the towel yet.
But at the end of the day, I’m willing to trade EVERYONE on the roster if it needs to.
Did I mention Kevin Durant is the TRUTH?????
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=31579
“Do that tank, get Durant” is my latest slogan.
February 1st, 2007 at 3:56 pm
- Wow it is a dark, dark, dark, dark, dark, dark…seriously like pitch black…day when we are touting Rick Adelman to be our new head coach/savior. Maybe if we get really lucky we can get into a little bidding war between the services of Adelman and Doc Rivers??
- I’d go for Ivaroni personally…
February 1st, 2007 at 4:13 pm
“we are touting Rick Adelman to be our new head coach/savior.”
We? …you’re the only person to use the word savior so far.
It’s natural to bring up Adelman as a candidate. He is the biggest name out there currently unemployed. All the possible head coach candidates are going to have pluses and minuses. I would consider hiring an experienced coach like Adelman to be a positive. Not saying he is the end-all-be-all, but the team could certainly do worse.
February 1st, 2007 at 4:24 pm
Could they? I mean Adelman has shown that he is a moderately successful coach when he has talent that never makes it over the hump when in the playoffs. What is the point of hiring a “known commodity” when his “commodity” is mediocraity??
Not to mention he is a somewhat lothesome/whiny individual???
February 1st, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Adleman’s track record is pretty good. 2 times within inches of winning it all (Portland had a shot against
Chicago and Sacramento should have beaten the Lakers and then the Pacers were not that great). I think the Sonics would do good to get him. I will be surprised if they do.
February 1st, 2007 at 4:38 pm
“I mean Adelman has shown that he is a moderately successful coach when he has talent that never makes it over the hump when in the playoffs. What is the point of hiring a “known commodity” when his “commodity” is mediocraity??”
You’re selling him completely short IMO. He has a career regular season winning percentage of 61% in 16 seasons. In those 16 seasons he won 50+ games 9 times. That’s not exactly chicken feed. Sure he’s had his problems in the playoffs but still has a 70-68 career record there. That’s 70 more playoff wins than Iavaroni. You can pooh-pooh known commodities but you and I both know Iavaroni is a complete unknown. There are so many guys who flame out in their first head coaching gigs it’s not even funny. I would take either one, but feel you are really underrating the guy.
Your comments “a moderately successful coach when he has talent that never makes it over the hump when in the playoffs, somewhat lothesome/whiny individual” applies to many successful NBA coaches, George Karl certainly comes to mind as does Flip Saunders and most poeple would be cool with either guy taking over the Sonics.
February 1st, 2007 at 4:56 pm
Silas is the best choice for any coaching replacement. He will instill both the mental and physical toughness that this current team of pansies needs.
February 1st, 2007 at 4:56 pm
Keep in mind that Adelman had lots of veteran talent on those teams - Webber, Bibby, Stojakavic, Divac, Christie, Turkoglu. They had the talent to contend for a title.
You think if we had Phil Jackson coaching us we’d be any better? Maybe a few games… Phil, like any other coach, makes the best of what he has. Not sure what he could do when Rashard is on the bench and Swifty is out for the season.
The Rockets have veteran talent (Howard/Battier/Mutombo) and excellent shooters - that’s why they continue to win. We’re still a young team on average (except for Ray). Plus McGrady passes the ball a lot more than Ray does.
NBA is all about talent. We need to make a bold trade so we have the talent to contend while Ray is still in his prime or just go ahead and trade Ray for 2007 draft picks and go young.
February 1st, 2007 at 5:01 pm
“Silas is the best choice for any coaching replacement. He will instill both the mental and physical toughness that this current team of pansies needs. ”
No coach in the world is going to make Rashard Lewis & Ray Allen suddenly play defense. This isn’t high school.
February 1st, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Forget about the next coach until you select the next GM. Some do, some do not like Hill. That’s fine. He didn’t draft or trade for, or sign any of these guys, Lenny OK-ed extending Luke, good or bad, Hill didn’t put the team together and I’m not so sure that another coach given the same roster, same injuries, would be doing all that much better.
Today is february 1, so I don’t expect Sund or Hill to move until after the trade deadline, that’s too bad, I think this team needs to figure out who they are and get going on moving the players, and management, that are not fitting the plan. If Sund isn’t the guy then you are likely burning up days and possibly passing up chances to make roster changes.
Wasted time.
February 1st, 2007 at 5:42 pm
- Adelman coached arguably two of the most talented teams (the early 90s Blazers and the early 00 Kings) of the last two decades and never won a championship with them…that is pretty bad.
- The times when he had teams that weren’t very talented (see Golden St.) he didn’t do anything to improve them. If you want to start quoting career records maybe we should bring good old Paul Westphal back. He had a great record when we hired him didn’t we?? Same type of caoches…got lucky to have REALLY talented teams and still found a way to torpedo him. In the 14 seasons he got his team (GOOD teams) to the playoffs he was knocked out in the first round 6 times.
- There is a reason that Bill Simmons can make jokes that there should be a NBA DVD on Adelman’s Greatest Playoff failures…
- As for Ivaroni…with a young team that is supposed to be built to run I would think going to a place where they are being very successful (Phoenix) and getting their top assistant would be pretty good.
February 1st, 2007 at 5:43 pm
- Karl on the other hand has shown quite the knack of turning around teams with marginal talent. He would probably be a good fit here for a couple of years…
- Flip is another marginal coach and unless he has more success with Detroit I have a feeling he won’t be an NBA head coach too much longer
February 1st, 2007 at 5:56 pm
Geez MYK, what is your beef with Adelman. Anyone who can coach a team with Webber and Peja to a top ten defense is obviously doing something right.
Getting a team over the hump? Do you realize how few coaches you’re talking about there?
February 1st, 2007 at 6:26 pm
- The Kings and the Blazers were both very, very, very talented teams…like top 2 or 3 in terms of all the teams in the league during their respective peaks and yet he didn’t once help get them over the hump. He got the Blazers to one Finals appearance??
- As I said above…when he begin to see his talent decline or he was just on a team without any talent (see: GSt.) he didn’t do anything to improve the team. You can hate on Karl all he want but he has a proven ability to take an underachieving team and make them better. Adelman has the proven ability to do the exact opposite. Take a talented team and make them underperform…
February 1st, 2007 at 6:43 pm
Exact opposite??? Wow! You’re going way overboard with that comment.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/adelmri01c.html
February 1st, 2007 at 6:47 pm
BTW: Check out the Warriors record the season before and after Adelman.
February 1st, 2007 at 7:01 pm
I agree with the SILAS pick. I wanted him a long time ago, but, Coach Casey also deserves an interview. Why isn’t anyone mentioning his name??? Bringing Tim Grgurich back in some capacity would be nice; but, it’s probably a pipe dream….
Adelman is a fine coach; he just doesn’t fit this team. We need a disciplinarian again…more of the McMillan mold. That’s why Silas is the man for the job.
I really don’t think that the talent is that bad, but, we never really seem to play defense with a sense of urgency. What happened to the days of guys swinging their arms a little bit on inbound passes? We should have a decent shot-blocking team if the guys played a little bit more motivated. Neither Weis nor Hill has been a great disciplinarian or a motivator. Hill seems to sell himself as being a teacher of defense, but, the development of players has been slow.
I hate to say it, but, McGrady deserved the All-Star game more than Allen. Allen continues to stroke it, but, he can’t defend with McGrady, Bryant, and the other long-armed two guards of the West…or if he can he doesn’t go to the effort. I hate to admit that because he’s such a classy player. It’s just reality.
February 1st, 2007 at 7:14 pm
McGrady does deserve it more. The Rockets record helps alot. But, Ray made a late push. This from ESPN. . .
“Ray Allen scored 36 points in the Sonics’ loss at Houston and finished January with a league-high 30.4 points per game scoring average for the month, besting Dwyane Wade (30.3). Allen Iverson topped the charts with his 31.7 ppg average during November and Gilbert Arenas (34.1) was the NBA’s scoring leader for December.”
Why, oh why do we have to have a great player like this when we are nowhere near competing? It is completely frustrating.
February 1st, 2007 at 7:28 pm
man please with the tmac b.s .hes just surrounded by way more talent he never mans up to guard the best wing player from the opposing team so i dont wanna hear that shit …..he never checks the ray allens paul pierces or kobe bryant and lebron james .of the league at least ray tries to play these guys and doesnt back down ……he just doesnt have the defensive support ..i swear to you that ron artest has been getting killed by the likes of everyone since he went to sacramento..is that luck coincidence or is it the fact that he doesnt have that defensive goon and help in the background once his oppposition gets by him every time .i’m tired of explaining this to ppl …
February 1st, 2007 at 7:32 pm
if i get by ray allen i have a lay up or a foul guaranteed at least 85 percent of the time.thus putting guys like ray and luke and rashard in bad positions so they cant pressure the ball the way a bruce bowen does ….cuz when u get by him then wat can you do with tim duncan and company lurking???so its easy to press up and make mistakes when u have the help to clean it up .god damn!!!!!!no 1 player can guard another player …..u cant be that retarded to not see that
February 1st, 2007 at 8:49 pm
“We need a disciplinarian again…more of the McMillan mold. That’s why Silas is the man for the job.”
When has Silas ever been a disciplinarian? Every thing I’ve ever heard about him says he is more of a players coach who refuses to change his system to cater to his talent. He couldn’t win with Lebron James in Cleveland…….I don’t think he can win here.
February 1st, 2007 at 9:01 pm
Ray has been an All Star so many years that I don’t think it really matters to him that much. I’m sure he likes the recognition, but its kinda nice to have a weekend off too. At least thats what he said in an interview I saw.
If anyone got snubbed…..its Carmelo.
February 1st, 2007 at 9:13 pm
what’s w/ some of youse guys!? Adelman and silas are throw aways.meet the new coach same as the old recycled coach.
anyway to other things.
About 90 % of western contenders in last 5-10 yrs are there simply because of a very high draft pick.except you know who.
sa-td,dallas,dirk,houston -yao.la-kobe,minn-the big ticket and denver -carmelo.Phoenix could be an exception by their great free agent pick up of mvp Nash.but also think amare.Seattle;
well no big free agent and no not even a top 10 pick in how long!
oh I forgot sene.Why hasnt mgmnt dealt w/ something so obvious and my favorite pro team keeps f##*ing losing!!!
The sad thing is that if we had a player like Labron or Dwayne
or kg or dirk for the last 5 yrs the chances would be a lot better in keeping our team in Seattle!!Because we would be looking at playoffs again like we used to when fans loved this team.
sos
mark in bothell
February 1st, 2007 at 9:13 pm
It is an outside estimate but
http://tinyurl.com/3b8zeq
the newest Forbes study says Sonics made $3.6 million last season ( after luxury tax and any other league distributions).
Unclear how good Forbes study is. the same folks estimate Sonics lost $7.8 million in 04-05.
$11.4 million improvement? No revenue growth.
Salaries went from about $54 million in 04-05 to $49 million in 05-06. League distributions may have provided the rest of the improvement.
Salaries up to $57 million for this season. Depending on luxury tax and other distibutions they probably wont be too far from even, up or down a few million. It appears.
February 1st, 2007 at 9:17 pm
“If anyone got snubbed…its Carmelo.”
Right, and Ron Artest should’ve been there in 04-05…oh wait, he was SUSPENDED THE WHOLE YEAR.
Anthony’s a punk, and a p#ssy. I loved the way he ran away, it reminded me of Monty Python and the Holy Grail. “He bravely ran away, away, oh brave Sir Robin.”
It’s tough to say Ray deserved to be there on a team that’s so abysmal. I think Camby’s a beast and should make it for either Boozer and Yao. Anthony didn’t help his cause when he held that party, while suspended, and his boyz killed that cornerback from the Broncos and could’ve easily waxed Javon Walker too. To make matters worse for the Nuggets (the NEW Trailgangstas), they were on there way to Iverson’t party. Good luck in Denver, carry your 9 milli to the arena, you never know who’s coming to “see” Iverson and Anthony. hehe
February 1st, 2007 at 9:17 pm
“If anyone got snubbed…its Carmelo.”
Right, and Ron Artest should’ve been there in 04-05…oh wait, he was SUSPENDED THE WHOLE YEAR.
Anthony’s a punk, and a p#ssy. I loved the way he ran away, it reminded me of Monty Python and the Holy Grail. “He bravely ran away, away, oh brave Sir Robin.”
It’s tough to say Ray deserved to be there on a team that’s so abysmal. I think Camby’s a beast and should make it for either Boozer and Yao. Anthony didn’t help his cause when he held that party, while suspended, and his boyz killed that cornerback from the Broncos and could’ve easily waxed Javon Walker too. To make matters worse for the Nuggets (the NEW Trailgangstas), they were on there way to Iverson’t party. Good luck in Denver, carry your 9 milli to the arena, you never know who’s coming to “see” Iverson and Anthony. hehe
February 1st, 2007 at 9:17 pm
“If anyone got snubbed…its Carmelo.”
Right, and Ron Artest should’ve been there in 04-05…oh wait, he was SUSPENDED THE WHOLE YEAR.
Anthony’s a punk, and a p#ssy. I loved the way he ran away, it reminded me of Monty Python and the Holy Grail. “He bravely ran away, away, oh brave Sir Robin.”
It’s tough to say Ray deserved to be there on a team that’s so abysmal. I think Camby’s a beast and should make it for either Boozer and Yao. Anthony didn’t help his cause when he held that party, while suspended, and his boyz killed that cornerback from the Broncos and could’ve easily waxed Javon Walker too. To make matters worse for the Nuggets (the NEW Trailgangstas), they were on there way to Iverson’t party. Good luck in Denver, carry your 9 milli to the arena, you never know who’s coming to “see” Iverson and Anthony. hehe
February 1st, 2007 at 9:18 pm
Dang it! Sorry. I have so many comments submitted that don’t show, I get trigger happy now. My bad.
February 1st, 2007 at 9:26 pm
Are you really comparing someone who missed 15 games and LEADS THE LEAGUE in scoring to someone who was suspended for the rest of the season? I think you are.
FYI: KG likes to fall away punch too. He made the team
“Anthony didn’t help his cause when he held that party, while suspended, and his boyz killed that cornerback from the Broncos and could’ve easily waxed Javon Walker too.”
hahahahhahaahah. What are you talking about? hahahahahahaha
February 1st, 2007 at 9:35 pm
Had a followup on Sonics fiscal situation but it is getting blocked. Maybe later.
February 1st, 2007 at 9:39 pm
So its Carmelo Anthony’s fault that the Bronco’s cornerback got shot while leaving a club, to supposedly go to Anthony’s party, and that caused NBA coaches to not vote for him as an All Star.
Anthony’s posse must have been like “There goes that Bronco heading to our boy’s party. Lets shoot up his limo.”
Hilarious.
Bob Hill: “I chose not to vote for Anthony because he held a party that the dead Bronco was going to. It had nothing to do with the 15 games he missed. I just don’t think people who throw parties should be All Stars. I mean come on. Javon Walker could have been hurt.”
February 1st, 2007 at 10:05 pm
Does anyone else think that Chase Budinger (Arizona) is a Layne Staley imposter?
February 1st, 2007 at 10:16 pm
Laugh all you want, homeboy. So you’re saying that his image/all-star appearance wasn’t affected by that fight, eh?
That’s hilarious.
Alright there, Menace, let’s change those 15 games from the suspension for fighting to, say, an injury. Does he make the team? I’ll help you: of course he makes the team, smart guy.
“Are you really comparing someone who missed 15 games and LEADS THE LEAGUE in scoring to someone who was suspended for the rest of the season? I think you are.”
Uh, yeah bro, that’s not what I was saying. It’s called a joke. To speak literally (apparently I need to), the league frowns on fighting. Carmelo missed 15 games due to fighting, AND it was right before the all star break. He ain’t making the team. In Stern’s NBA, he’s not making that team, unless his last name was Jordan.
Not like I was saying it was a real factor or anything, but homeboy that got shot and killed was leaving a birthday party for Anthony at a club, or so I read over and over. Whether you believe it or not, it makes him look like he rolls with a crew of thugs, and again, I’m not saying it’s right, but NBA players get judged on that from Stern, owners, ppl who pick all-star reserves, etc.
February 1st, 2007 at 10:18 pm
“FYI: KG likes to fall away punch too. He made the team”
He’s 7 feet tall, and weighs about 120 lbs. Yeah, he’s a p#ssy, too. hehe
February 1st, 2007 at 10:31 pm
Well, Chase Budinger looks like he could be Layne Staley’s bastard son. Let’s hope that Budinger doesn’t have a heroin addiction, though.
February 1st, 2007 at 10:35 pm
Its a snub.
Anthony’s past and background isn’t a surprise to anyone who knows basketball. Whether its the “Stop Snitching” video, his fight, or any connection to the Denver Bronco shooting……his way of life has already been documented. Its nothing new. So no, I don’t think it changed the way people look at Anthony.
Honestly I think racism has a lot to do with how NBA players are perceived, and its WRONG.
example:
Hockey. Mostly white players. Fights = sportcenter highlights/jokes.
NBA. Mostly black players. Fights = huge media blitz. giant suspensions, and its made into a huge deal.
BTW: We aren’t arguing. It sounds like you think he got snubbed too.
February 1st, 2007 at 10:47 pm
Isn’t fighting ALLOWED in Hockey though? I’m not a hockey fan & I could care less about hockey, but I’m pretty sure they are allowed to fight. In the NBA it’s against the rules. I don’t doubt there is a strong underlying issue of race though (if the recent comments about Obama from Democrat Senator Biden is any indicaiton of the elite whites being out of touch with what is and is not offensive comments about African Americans)
February 1st, 2007 at 11:10 pm
I think ppl can “hear” about Anthony and know he’s a thug. But I think seeing him act in that manner, on camera in front of millions, makes it much worse. And the Sportscenters of the world don’t help matters, playing it over and over and over, etc.
“his way of life has already been documented. Its nothing new. So no, I don’t think it changed the way people look at Anthony.”
I see what you’re saying (already knowing he’s a thug), but just ask yourself that question: If out 15 games due to injury instead of fighting, doesn’t he make the team? Just look at Yao, out a bunch games due to injury, and he made the team. And Anthony had just as strong a first half of the season as Yao, if not stronger.
“BTW: We aren’t arguing. It sounds like you think he got snubbed too.”
Two things: First, it’s an all-star game, and ppl want to see the stars i.e. Melo. Second, you must be a Sonic fan like I am, so you should understand first-hand that I’m looking for arguments/fights and taking EVERYTHING personal after watching this horrific experience we Sonic fans are calling the first half of the season.
J/K, it’s all good!
February 1st, 2007 at 11:18 pm
Let me defend my suggestion of Adelman. And it was just a suggestion.
Before Adelman arrived the Kings had 1 winning season from 1980-81 to 1997-98, the season before adelman took over. Yes, they picked up Webber in the off season.
He won over 60% of his games as a Kings coach. The kind of “mediocrity” the Sonics would love to attain.
The Kings did get to the finals, but were in the playoffs 8 years in a row. Wouldn’t most of us go back to the Karl days of 62 wins and a first round exit. Also, they were at their best during the Lakers 3-peat, and SA’s championship.
In Portland, the Blazers had a losing record the season before Adelman became the HC. In his 3 hot seasons for PO they lost to the Bad Boys, Magic’s Lakers and Jordan. So, not much choking going on there.
I am not a HUGE Adelman fan…Really I’m not. But to cast him off hand because he has not won the big one would be a mistake. I just think a proven winner is the way to go, not an unknown like Ivaroni. I was for Ivaroni before Weiss, but not so much now. A D’Antoni type might work, a person with some non-NBA professional head coaching success.
Just MO
February 1st, 2007 at 11:19 pm
“I see what you’re saying (already knowing he’s a thug), but just ask yourself that question: If out 15 games due to injury instead of fighting, doesn’t he make the team? Just look at Yao, out a bunch games due to injury, and he made the team. And Anthony had just as strong a first half of the season as Yao, if not stronger.”
Who knows. Yao was voted in. Hell…. Shaq is starting and he has played a whopping 6 games all year. The All Star game is what it is. Every year someone deserving doesn’t make it. Its not a huge deal. I just wonder if the leagues leading scorer has ever not made the game.
February 1st, 2007 at 11:30 pm
“Honestly I think racism has a lot to do with how NBA players are perceived, and its WRONG.”
J Williams (white chocolate, haha) is a white thug and noone likes him, either.
Racism is more of an issue with old-a$$ geezers (senator Biden, etc.) whose minds are still stuck in the 60’s. I think racism gets lessened with every generation. Is it a problem still? Obviously it is. But it gets a bit better as time goes by.
I think the next NBA commissioner should be black. Stern is, in my opinion, the best commissioner in professional sports. But is he in touch with black youth? No. 80 % of NBA players are black, roughly. I think the league would be more in touch with its players with a black commissioner. Sometimes decisions are made that might not be made if the league was more in touch with its players, like that whack dress code. Young ppl (black and white) wear baggy-a$$ clothes, Sean John, Phat Farm, etc. And you’re going to make them wear suits…even on airplane flights? That’s so uncomfortable, it’s total BS in my opinionl
Also, the race card gets played sometimes when it’s completely unfounded. I think Anthony is one of those, to be honest. If he’s a white boy and does what he did, dude gets 15 games too.
February 1st, 2007 at 11:33 pm
“I just wonder if the leagues leading scorer has ever not made the game.”
I believe Gilbert Arenas had that happen last year, only to be added to the team the next day.
I don’t think Melo got snubbed as much as Johnson chose to reward someone else. It’s part of the way the teams are chosen, coaches have to vote for 2 guards, 2 forwards and a C then there’s two wild card choices. Backups for the West at guard were Nash and Iverson, forwards Marion and Dirk and C Amare. Then the coach gets to add two more players of his choice and he took Tony Parker, which is a good call because you’re going to need another guard, and recognizes Carlos Boozer as the best player from a team 5.5 games better than the Nuggets.
Boozer’s injured and Melo’s more than likely going to get that slot. If they take Melo, then Boozer doesn’t get recognized for the year he’s put together. There’s also a chance that Josh Howard gets taken before Melo, how do you justify two Nuggets and only one Mavrick?
Melo’s suspension doesn’t help anything, nor does his reputation around the league but I don’t think that was the overriding reason he’s not on the team yet.
I think there should also be some consideration for hte fact that he Nuggets have lost thier last 4 games.
February 1st, 2007 at 11:38 pm
My girlfriend just told me to get a life. She’s right, I’m getting off the computer and I’m going to tune in to NBA TV and wait for a Sonics-Utah conference finals game from ‘96, and re-live the “golden years” as I know them.
Yeah…now that’s living! hehe
MY sophomore year of college, I drove 18 hours (from Cali to Seattle) to watch game 5 that year, the OT game we lost. Two tickets, $275 each, and I was in the last row on the upper level, BEHIND a rafter. I had to lean to see the whole court. Now THAT was weak, but still worth it………..
February 2nd, 2007 at 5:35 am
“No coach in the world is going to make Rashard Lewis & Ray Allen suddenly play defense. This isn’t high school. ”
Nate McMillan had this team playing defense. I can’t believe we let Mr. Sonic to leave.
February 2nd, 2007 at 5:59 am
“Nate McMillan had this team playing defense.”
Don’t confuse playing slow down possession basketball and playing defense. The year we won 52 under Nate we were the 27th worst defensive team in the league on efficiency scales.
February 2nd, 2007 at 6:46 am
Part 2 Sonics fiscal status:
Arena development probably pulls fiscal balance down some. Right now 07-08 sal. projected to go up a couple million but if it stays that way it is only a 5-10% increase.
Longterm simple fiscal and higher “competitive” challenges still out there; but Sonics don’t appear to be in the red bigtime like a handful of teams, at least in the current window of this year / next year. If the reality is different I assume the team will document as part of the arena discussion.
February 2nd, 2007 at 9:37 am
I have always thought that “defense” cannot necessarily be described statistically. Successful teams may give up points but become very strong late when it matters. I remember watching the old Celtic teams or even the Showtime Lakers. In a close game they could crank down on defense and become very tough to score on.
Similarly Nate had a group he used late that was very good at closing out games. That is what we are really missing now.
February 2nd, 2007 at 9:49 am
“I have always thought that “defense” cannot necessarily be described statistically.”
It can be tough to quantify individual defense statistically … but team defensive efficiency is absolutely something that can be measured. Scott is correct when he points out that they year the Sonics won 52 was a byproduct of playing efficient slowdown basketball with very few turnovers on the offensive end and equally important rebounding like crazy.
The Sonics rebounded the ball the so well that year and gave themselves so many second chances on offense that they just out-produced teams. Not so much because they were a stalwart defensive team that led the league in steals or blocked shots.
That was a unique team. Even had we kept Nate I doubt that he would have been able to repeat those results. I don’t think Jerome James would be capable of having two decent seasons in a row, AD had knee issues, etc.
February 2nd, 2007 at 10:20 am
IN A HEARTBEAT
http://realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=3645751
February 2nd, 2007 at 10:28 am
In a heartbeat?
We’d have Miller, Watson, and Ridnour. I don’t think Miller is quite the player Rashard is, anyway.
Now if you ask me who I’d rather have of the three guards, it’d be Miller. If we could gaffle Miller for either Watson or Ridnour (and another small piece), I’d be down.
February 2nd, 2007 at 10:34 am
Luke and Earl could help us move up in the draft, thereby drafting a solid backup at point and in the second round a small forward.
February 2nd, 2007 at 11:08 am
Vinny’s banned till Monday from using Realgm’s tradechecker.
It’s either that or I have to ban myself from clicking on those gawdawful trade ideas…
February 2nd, 2007 at 11:08 am
“Luke and Earl could help us move up in the draft, thereby drafting a solid backup at point and in the second round a small forward. ”
If you are looking for a solid backup PG in the first round of the draft, you really are not going to need to “trade up”. I’m not sure there is even a top 10 rated PG in this draft and maybe not even a top 15 rated one. Acie Law is probably the best bet at this time and he’s rated around the late teens.
Miller would be an interesting option, but I don’t see that as a very good value move. If you did that trade, then your best bet is to probably turn around and combine either Earl or Luke in a trade with one of our young bigs for a legit center.
February 2nd, 2007 at 11:17 am
If you are going to go after Miller it should be with the intention of pairing his style with that of both Ray and Rashard, not giving one of them up for Miller as you then create a large scoring hole that needs to be filled.
February 2nd, 2007 at 11:26 am
- Yes Adelman has led his team to the playoffs. I’m pretty sure any coach with: Webber, Bibby, Stojakovic and Divac/Miller or Drexler, Porter, Kersey and B. Williams would have been able to do this. Was there ever a time when he was coaching those teams where you thought:
“Man I wish we had that coach on our side?”
No…he was the ultimate average coach. Just another guy in a suit. At least with Ivaroni you have a chance to give someone a chance. Look at what NFL teams are doing with hiring the assistants who they know will work their tails off when they get the new job…that is what we should be doing as well.
- The idea that the Sonics were a good defensive team in 2004 is really, really, really funny…
February 3rd, 2007 at 12:01 am
Regarding Adelman,
Let’s not forget that the 2 “humps” he could not get over were the Jordan lead Bulls and that Shaq and Kobe Lakers. If that the best criticism of him that you have, you might want to rethink your argument.
The better analysis is what kind of coach do we need. Adelman’s success has come with teams of talented vets that could run with the ball. I agree, we need more of a disciplinarian, like Nate. But Hill seems pretty strict and in your face, and that’s not getting the best out of this crew.
Which gets back to the issue, the coach is not the problem. The building of the team is the problem. A new GM on the same page as the coach is the answer. Sund is not responsible for the current team, Wally is and it’s going to take some time to recover.
June 6th, 2009 at 9:44 am
Coach and GM liking each other and being able to work together is always supremely important. But, the bottom line is as a coach you have to work with what you have.