Daily Roundup 03.12.07
Posted on Monday, March 12th, 2007 at 9:35 am by Xteve
Are friends electric?
mine’s broken.
I want to talk about Frank’s blog entry.
“He has said Sene is worse now than he was in training camp, Johan is worse now than he was last year and Swift obviously is hurt and not able to do anything. So I assume that means the entire year was a waste — but I dont want to put words in anybody’s mouth.”
If Hill really believes that those guys are doing worse then it’s entirely on himself and his staff. Sene went from being the starter early in the year to being shuttled back n forth from the NBDL so much that he qualifies for frequent flyer miles. It’s no wonder he’s regressed. Same as Johan.
One of the major reasons the team stunk so badly last year under Bob Weiss was because he couldn’t set a rotation. Now we’ve seen Hill do that too. The only difference is he got more time to suck at it.
I was in Hill’s corner earlier in the year specifically because of his willingness to play and develop the young bigs. Last year he realized they weren’t going to get better sitting on the bench. I don’t know what happened to change his mind this year, but whatever it is, it’s the wrong decision. There is no reason that Sene and Gelabale shouldn’t be playing right now over Damien Wilkins and Andre Brown.
Not sure this should be a surprise, perhaps the players are as confused as the rest of us as to what the hell is going on for the rest of the year. Is the team still desperately trying to beat out Portland for the honor of getting swept by Dallas in the first round? Or is everyone showcasing themselves since the team won’t come out and do it for them?
Once again IMO it was crap defense at the point that let the team down yet again, witness TJ Ford’s last second drive to the hoop in OT and Earl Watson’s matador defense on said play. I don’t want to hear about Earl Watson’s defense any more. The guy is not a lockdown defender, he is not an All-Star caliber defender, he is merely a decent defender on a squad that is so bad collectively he looks great by comparison.
Though Petro has been pretty terrible on D all year long I do have to give Johan some props for his double double outing yesterday. I can only hope that his commitment to crash the glass continues, then we might have something. Awesome tip jam too.
Was the U-Dub snub really that much of a surprise? Seely answers his own question best, I think. Too many high profile losses late in the season (which still doesn’t entirely explain Stanford’s NCAA berth) but in a year where the NIT chose to go to a seeding system, teams like Air Force are going to benefit at the Huskies expense. And though I’m not laying the blame on his feet at all it didn’t help that Spencer Hawes got totally. freaking. owned. by Robbie Cowgill in the final game.
March 12th, 2007 at 9:45 am
“And though I’m not laying the blame on his feet at all it didn’t help that Spencer Hawes got totally. freaking. owned. by Robbie Cowgill in the final game.”
Cowgill owned Hawes, do explain?
March 12th, 2007 at 10:08 am
Explain what? I’m hardly the first guy to say he got outplayed and badly at that.
March 12th, 2007 at 10:21 am
I was in Hill’s corner earlier in the year specifically because of his willingness to play and develop the young bigs. Last year he realized they weren’t going to get better sitting on the bench. I don’t know what happened to change his mind this year
Last year, Hill was coaching to keep his job with the Sonics. This year, Hill is coaching to land a job with another team.
Frank’s blog: I asked Bob this question: Why would you draft a guy like Sene and develop him when generally young big guys who are taken dont succeed until they get to their second team, meaning you developed them for somebody else? His response was that the Swift injury makes Sene look like a bad draft pick because they now have a dearth of big men
Hill is a riot! Anyone remember at the time Swift went down, Hill said that it sure was smart of the Sonics to draft Sene? A self-promoter when times are good and a deflector of blame when times are tough. What a coach!
March 12th, 2007 at 10:31 am
- Its simple last year Hill was trying to kiss some a$$ so he could get a contract extension. That’s why I never agreed with you guys when you said he was such a developer of big men. I think last year he was doing what he was told…this year he is just doing what he wants (probably helps to not have Wally around in this matter).
- Wow good to know Frank and I are on exactly the same page…why draft so many centers and develop them for everyone else.
- I think the foul trouble on Hawes completely took him out of the game. The refs decided not to call any fouls on the low post players (both sides) when they were shooting. They only called fouls when a player was dribbling into the lane and that is how Cowgill got the two quick fouls on Hawes and Dentmon got a few cheapies in the middle of the second half. Pac-10 officiating is basically on the same level as the kids who coached the games my 6th grade basketball team scored.
- Menace…I see you on the Times Husky Blog and I just gotta say…on here I agree with most you say…on there…well…if you are a Cougar fan why don’t you act like you’ve been there. All the Cougars are talking so much smack it is hillarious…you need a little more practice at winning.
March 12th, 2007 at 10:35 am
- Hey guess what…Bob Hill said that they did pretty good last night since it was their 5th game in 7 nights. Honestly, how many times a season can you use the “we were tired” excuse. Maybe they wouldn’t be so tired if he played more of his bench.
March 12th, 2007 at 10:55 am
“Explain what? I’m hardly the first guy to say he got outplayed and badly at that.”
Lets start with the fact that Hawes played 22 minutes because of foul trouble, two of those fouls he picked up guarding Aaron Baynes (who started opposite of Hawes). Cowgill played 36 minutes and managed to shoot a robust 35.7% from the field and grabbed less rebounds in his 14 more minutes than Hawes did.
To say that is also not taking into account just how much better the WSU guards are than UW’s. Put Hawes in with those three and WSU might be a top 5 team in the country.
How tough is it to defend Hawes when the only guys that can take any pressure off him are a PF with no game outside the 5 foot ring and a three point chucker who loses all effectiveness when you make him take one dribble? If they had one guy on the perimeter that could create off the dribble Hawes becomes an infinately better player.
In fact Washington’s interior players were 14-24 from the field, while everyone else shot an outstanding 12-33. Hawes wasn’t a solution in that game but he certianly wouldn’t be in my top three problems.
March 12th, 2007 at 11:14 am
Not sure if Frank Hughes is putting words in Hill’s mouth, but saying Sene is worse now is another way of saying I never played him so he has had no chance to improve. It is an indictment of his actions. How could he get better on the bench and working out a little bit with the team in shoot arounds?
Look at Sene’s time in the NBDL. By his statistics alone, you could see his impressive improvement both in rebounds and shooting. It was both surprising to see and very encouraging. Let the man play. Free Sene!
March 12th, 2007 at 11:20 am
Of course Hill will say Sene has regressed, otherwise, how could he justify having Sene be the opening day starter, yet basically never play him since after game two?
March 12th, 2007 at 11:31 am
Scott,
- Cougar fans just DESPERATELY want to feel superior. Therefore, they will try and build up any sort of advantage they seemed to get. You’d think that the overall apathy of UW alumni towards Cougar alumni would start to sink in and realize that most UW alumni don’t really care what they say…its kind of like listening to your little brother yap at you. You know they are there…but you also know you will always be older
March 12th, 2007 at 11:46 am
Myk, if you’re trying to imply I’m a Cougar fan you couldn’t be more wrong. Poor road record, soft non conf schedule, terrible Pac 10 TV deal so nobody ever sees the UW on TV outside local area all conspire.
March 12th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
As usual, Husky fans (as are most Seattle people towards those of us on the eastside of Washington) feel they are superior because they have elitist, liberal attitudes.
Explain this, oh purple & gold faithful:
http://www.washington.edu/alumni/survey/index.html
“…alumni of WSU can be more demonstrative than Huskies. During the 2005 Apple Cup week, WSU voters outpolled UW voters in a pride contest and the Space Needle was painted with the Cougar logo. WSU alumni have purchased more license plates with their school logo than all of the alumni of the state’s other four-year institutions combined.”
Let me guess, UW alumni are probably too busy protesting the War in Iraq or watching “An Inconvenient Truth” to vote or show pride for the Huskies? Pffh.
March 12th, 2007 at 12:20 pm
myELF, Let’s keep the politics on the down low for everyone’s sake. Thanks.
March 12th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
“Menace…I see you on the Times Husky Blog and I just gotta say…on here I agree with most you say…on there…well…if you are a Cougar fan why don’t you act like you’ve been there. All the Cougars are talking so much smack it is hillarious…you need a little more practice at winning. ”
It is hilarious. Its rivalry and smack talk is entertaining to me. I take it all with a grain of salt. I can’t act like I’ve been there. I haven’t.
UW didn’t get snubbed. It is unfortunate that they gave autobids to the conference winners who didn’t make the NCAA. It also really hurt their chances when they shortened the field to 32 (not 40). There are only two teams that you can argue that UW should have made it over. NC State and Fresno St. But there are solid arguments for why they were chosen as well.
March 12th, 2007 at 12:37 pm
Either way. Who really cares that much. The NIT is garbage.
March 12th, 2007 at 1:00 pm
MyELFboy:
- I love it when Cougars bring up that survey. It even got an article in the Seattle Times. Anyways, I explained to you why this is in my last post. Here is a little more. When I was a kid my uncle’s family had all of their kids go to WSU. So at our family events I would be all about giving them a litte jab about it and how much better UW was than WSU. Then I went to UW and visited Pullman and I realized…why do I need to even waste my time talking smack. In the grand scheme of things it is barely a rivalry…Beating a team like WSU isn’t worth talking a whole bunch of smack because it has been done so many times in the past…whats the point? As I said before its like an older brother and his annoying younger brother who is always trying so hard to prove himself to you…
Simply put, UW fans/alumni don’t feel this undying need to prove ourselves to everyone. We’ve all been there before…we know where we went to school speaks for itself in this Region. Am I really supposed to be sad that the top of the Space Needle was painted? Why? Last time I checked the top of the Space Needle in no way reflects the rankings of the institutions…the performance of their sports teams etc.
I’m glad Cougars have lots of pride…maybe if they keep up this competitiveness for about another 10 to 20 years our roles will be reversed…but I doubt it.
March 12th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Wow, I hadn’t realized that the UW didn’t graduate Republicans and that WSU didn’t graduate Democrats. And since Spencer Hawes is a conservative (unlike his lefty daddy), I guess he’ll be transferring to WSU next year…Of course, true basketball fans know that the rim and backboard are independent…
March 12th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
As an alumnus of Everett Community College, I’m a certified Trojan man; thus, I’m superior to people who attended either the University of Washington or Washington State University.
Y’all can take that to the bank and cash it for, well, absolutely nothing of substance (i.e., money).
Aside from that bit of humor, however, there’s no way that anyone with half of a brain can blame Spencer Hawes for the Huskies loss against the Cougars last week. Likewise, it sure as hell wasn’t Robbie Cowgill who won the game. All things considered, I’ve put the blame on many things — especially Justin Dentmon’s consistently sh*tty play and the piss-poor officiating — yet, Hawes definitely wasn’t the deciding factor.
“As usual, Husky fans (as are most Seattle people towards those of us on the eastside of Washington) feel they are superior because they have elitist, liberal attitudes.”
Well, genius, both republicans and democrats are foolish imbeciles — although conservatives are, without question, way more obnoxious are dense — yet, I’ve undoubtedly noted that numerous times. At any rate, though, I hope that libertarians (i.e., fiscal conservatives, social liberals, and isolationists regarding foreign policy) will eventually have their time to shine in the realm of American politics at the federal, state, and municipal levels; unfortunately, there are too many moronic dolts who reside this country for that to likely occur during my lifetime. Alas, I guess I’ll have to live with the ineptitude by a majority of my fellow citizens.
Anyway, the National Invitational Tournament is complete and utter garbage. In fact, it should cease to exist.
Finally, I laughed the day after the 2006 NBA Draft when a bunch of you guys praised the selection of Mouhamed Sene. It reeked of spin then and, sadly, it still reeks of spin. Each time that I’ve seen him play for the Seattle Supersonics, Sene has played like a high school reserve. In the end, ultimately, a guy who’s got the court awareness, skills, and talents of a 13-year-old kid will never develop into a viable option at the professional level.
Lastly, I can’t believe that Vinny brought up the old, yet still asinine thought of playing Damien Wilkins at point guard. It was a bad idea last season, earlier this season, and again at this point in time.
Okay, I’m done venting here.
March 12th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
The way I see it MYK. UW is the Yankees and WSU is the Twins. UW is supposed to be better record wise. They have no excuse not to be.
As for the attitude……its a two way street. Not so much the younger generation, but to me the older UW alumni really hold tight to a “I’m better than you attitude”. All of which is based on a school they attended. Most WSU students could really care less IMO. Both atmosphere’s are different…..its just a matter of personal preference.
March 12th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
Gary Numan makes me sad and so do the Supersonics.
Point for point in the daily roundup I couldn’t agree with you more.
Who is a viable, preferably young, replacement for Hill?
Who is the defense playing point guard?
It’s impossible for me to see how the team is better served by anything other than standing pat in the front court. Most of those guys are really young, and while Collison and Wilcox didn’t make the All-Star team, they’re hardly the team’s achilles heel.
The team needs veteran experience at the point and a committment to defend at every position. It will probably take a change in philosophy to do that. Hill will have to take his sad sack, also ran, years of experience coaching career back to a subordinate coaching position where he belongs.
March 12th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
- The number one replacement has to be Ivaroni…worked on Riley’s staff…works on the Phoenix staff. Tough nosed, focuses on defense. Spends tons of time watching film. Just the kind of coach we need. The guys over at USSMariner already have a campaign for the next Ms GM and I’d like to start the Ivaroni campaign ASAP.
- AK…Everett Community College, eh?? I spent so many of my summer days in High School playing basketball in that POS gym that I feel like it is my second college…
March 12th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
“Finally, I laughed the day after the 2006 NBA Draft when a bunch of you guys praised the selection of Mouhamed Sene. It reeked of spin then and, sadly, it still reeks of spin. Each time that I’ve seen him play for the Seattle Supersonics, Sene has played like a high school reserve. In the end, ultimately, a guy who’s got the court awareness, skills, and talents of a 13-year-old kid will never develop into a viable option at the professional level.”
You can keep bringing this up but it still doesn’t change the fact that the guy is less than 500 minutes into his NBA career.
March 12th, 2007 at 2:52 pm
Can we bring up ho Sene is on year two of jumping off the correct foot? How about the fact that nobody more raw/less experience has ever come into the NBA, especially where he was drafted, and become serviceable.
Heres to making history. Cheers.
March 12th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
Hey man…I coached some 6th graders this year and no matter how hard I tried three of them couldn’t grasp the whole “jump off the opposite foot you are shooting with” concept…cut him some slack, it must be hard to learn.
March 12th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
Ummm how was this quote not brought out of Frank’s Blog:
Here is a story in Newsday about Lenny Wilkens going back to Madison Square Garden this week. The nut of the story is that Lenny insinuates he is not retired from coaching, though the story does not go on to say what that means specifically.
- I might (probably) would quit being a Sonics fan if they hired Lenny as their coach…don’t drive that final nail Clay…PLEASE
March 12th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
“I’m a certified Trojan man”
AK, isn’t a Trojan a condom?
March 12th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
I’d get more excited about being a Sonics fan if they hired Lenny. Dude is a champion & holds the respect of every player in the league. He has the same no-frills, focus-on-fundamentals approach as Nate & he knows what it takes to win.
March 12th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
Lenny used to be a good coach. I think he is too old and old school to deal with the players these days. He wasn’t successful in Toronto where he had the talent. A lot of his wins as a coach are from the old days. I would not like to see him on the bench.
March 12th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
“I’d get more excited about being a Sonics fan if they hired Lenny. Dude is a champion & holds the respect of every player in the league. He has the same no-frills, focus-on-fundamentals approach as Nate & he knows what it takes to win. ”
I cannot think of a worse hire to coach this team than Lenny Wilkens. His last two coaching stints were horrific as he couldn’t relate to his players and his franchise icon status makes a working relationship with upper mgmt impossible. It’d be just like having Nate coach again. He could completely suck ass and management can’t fire him because he’s Lenny Wilkens and they just spent 12 months and umpteen million bucks kissing his ass and selling him to the fans.
If you really respect Lenny, then put him in a position to succeed. Let him be color guy, let him schmooze season ticket holders, politicos, be a community ambassador, whatever. But don’t put him in a position where he’s going to be ripped apart. It doesn’t do anybody any good.
I fully agree with the Iavaroni suggestion. I would prefer hiring someone with no ties past or present to Seattle or the Sonics (since let’s face it, we just went down that road, and it was a freaking disaster) from an organization with a recent history of winning and start building towards something.
March 12th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
OK, lets say Iavaroni signs somewhere else.
Would Coach Casey be a good alternative?
March 12th, 2007 at 6:01 pm
“AK, isn’t a Trojan a condom?”
That, Joe, is a part of the joke.
March 12th, 2007 at 6:26 pm
I pause to gratefully thank the NIT selection committee for snubbbing UW, thereby increasing the chances that Spencer Hawes remains in school and prevents the Sonics from drafting him…
March 12th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
Don’t even get me started on my “not a snub” rant.
March 12th, 2007 at 7:47 pm
Looks like Luke’s sitting out one more game. Don’t think it will make any difference since Detroit’s our next opponent.
Bob Hill’s considering giving Damien time at the PG position. Oh boy.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/307148_sonx13.html
March 12th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
Yeah, I’m sure Chauncey Billups is lying in bed in the Four Seasons Seattle sooooo grateful he won’t have to deal with the immortal Luke Ridnour tomorrow…
March 12th, 2007 at 9:24 pm
Look, Menace, the Washington Huskies RPI (81) proves that the team was snubbed by the irrefutably biased NIT Selection Committee — which, by the way, lacked any members who reside on the West Coast — and there’s no way that you nor anyone else can discredit that argument.
Yet, notwithstanding my respect toward the Huskies, I nevertheless hope that the Gonzaga Bulldogs and the Washington State Cougars play each other in the NCAA Tournament Championship Game. It’s all about the Pacific Northwest being fairly represented in college basketball.
March 12th, 2007 at 9:33 pm
“I’d get more excited about being a Sonics fan if they hired Lenny.”
Seriously dude? Seriously!?! Have you heard him when he’s announcing? The guy is senile. I’m not even joking. “He really is.”
The man should be put in a retirement home, not coaching an NBA team
March 12th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
I think I might vote to have anyone who says that Lenny is the answer have posting priviledges taken away from them…
March 12th, 2007 at 10:09 pm
The answer is (was) paying Nate McMillian what he deserved to be paid…
March 12th, 2007 at 10:14 pm
…and drafting Al Jefferson and Rondo…
March 12th, 2007 at 10:25 pm
If y’all dislike Earl Watson, then Rajon Rondo wouldn’t've been the answer. In essence, Rondo is a horrible field-goal shooter like Waston — as well as a a worse three-point shooter and free-throw shooter — I, therefore, don’t think that he’d've been beloved by the fans here.
March 12th, 2007 at 10:33 pm
I meant to write Ronnie Brewer, not Rondo
March 12th, 2007 at 10:47 pm
“Look, Menace, the Washington Huskies RPI (81) proves that the team was snubbed by the irrefutably biased NIT Selection Committee — which, by the way, lacked any members who reside on the West Coast — and there’s no way that you nor anyone else can discredit that argument.”
Every team but 2 in the NIT had a higher RPI than UW. A majority of the teams that made the NIT had a better conference and overall record. NCST and Fresno St. had worse rpis. NCST made the ACC finals. The ACC is a higher ranked conference than the Pac-10. Fresno St. had a better conference and overall record. UW had ONE road victory all season. Not a snub.
March 12th, 2007 at 10:59 pm
The at large bids all had higher RPIs I mean. The automatic bids didn’t.
March 12th, 2007 at 11:15 pm
“Every team but 2 in the NIT had a higher RPI than UW.”
WHAT?!?
http://www.rpiratings.com/mensrpi.html
Okay, Menace, I guess that Austin Peay, Delaware State, East Tennessee State, Marist, Mississippi Valley State, South Alabama, Toledo, and Vermont don’t count in your mind.
March 12th, 2007 at 11:17 pm
The at large bids all had higher RPIs I mean. The automatic bids didn’t.
Goddamnit, you’re correct on that account.
Well, folks, there’s one of the countless reason that I didn’t attend a four-year university.
March 12th, 2007 at 11:37 pm
Yup Lester…Nate McMillan was a great coach…I mean he was THIS close to getting fired before the 2004-05 season (and would’ve if he wasn’t “Mr. Sonic”)…and he has done very well in Portland
March 12th, 2007 at 11:39 pm
Looks like Pittsburgh is keeping the NHL. Do you think this effects the arena situation?? I have to admit my following of the NHL is basically non-existent. However, it did seem appealing to get a kid like Sidney Crosby over here if we were going to have a franchise.
March 13th, 2007 at 6:54 am
Saw the news about Pittsburgh this morning. Hard to say how it affects the arena situation. It’s less likely that an NHL franchise will be available soon. It does however mean Kansas City has an arena without a major league tenent. That’s one place the Sonics could end up besides OKC.
Anyone watch the Big 12 tournament which were played at the Ford Center this year? That arena appeared large. Other than that I was unimpressed.
March 13th, 2007 at 8:45 am
“The answer is (was) paying Nate McMillian what he deserved to be paid… ”
Check Nate’s paycheck vs his record and you’ll see they made the correct decision.
March 13th, 2007 at 9:14 am
Yeah, Nate’s totally overated and should’ve gotten a lot more wins with all the amazing talent he had to work with.
The only good thing about Bob hill is that I don’t have to worry about paying to go see the “Bodies” exhibit at the SAM.
March 13th, 2007 at 10:04 am
wait, do you remember that great season we had in 2005? Who was coach?
March 13th, 2007 at 10:10 am
“wait, do you remember that great season we had in 2005? Who was coach?”
Great, what’s Nate’s overall record as a coach.
Now go check the records of coaches who are paid in the same general area that Nate is.
OVERRATED
March 13th, 2007 at 10:41 am
“what’s Nate’s overall record as a coach”
I can’t find coaches salaries on hoopshype, but I’m guessing that all of those similarly-payed coaches w/ better records had far better players on their teams than the Sonics and Portland.
March 13th, 2007 at 10:48 am
I believe that Nate is like the 3rd or 4th best paid coach in the NBA. You’d think he’d actually have some success under his belt to warrant that.
March 13th, 2007 at 11:30 am
“I believe that Nate is like the 3rd or 4th best paid coach in the NBA. You’d think he’d actually have some success under his belt to warrant that.”
How do you suppose he might have some success with the two teams he’s had to coach?
I think his pay reflects a more dynamic view of his performance than looking purely at overall records.
I’d consider his young squad being a game and a half better than the Sonics a success at this early stage in his transition to Portland. How many of you predicted that Portland would be higher in the standing than us? I didn’t.
I’d consider the 2004/05 year a success, because we started winning as soon as he employed his own coaching strategies rather than those of our front office (look at all the success we’ve had w/ runnin and gunnin).
I’d consider the fact that he was chosen as an assistant coach to the USA Olympic team as a testament to the fact that truly knowledgeable folks in the field think he is deserving of such an honor as to restore the tarnished reputation of a previously untouchable team.
March 13th, 2007 at 11:56 am
- I’d consider that his first three years of head coaches he had long winning streaks and then once the league adjusted to his team they completely fell apart.
- I’d consider that he has had one playoff series win in his entire career
- I’d consider that Portland has two lotto picks, a top-notch PF (despite attitude problems), a much higher salary expenditure as an answer to your whole “lack of talent” question. However, I know some people here don’t like the Portland roster. I would argue that although it doesn’t have much flexibility to say that it doesn’t have any talent is falt out idiotic.
- All that being said he is still coaching the 3rd worst team in the conference. I guess I’m sure I understand what the point is of paying a coach the 3rd or 4th highest salary in the league to get the 6th worst record…but hey, Portland likes to waste money
March 13th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
“I might vote to have anyone who says that Lenny is the answer have posting priviledges taken away from them…”
I might vote to have anyone who can’t spell privileges have their ability to post taken away. Seriously, though, what’s wrong with posting an opposing/unpopular viewpoint?
I’d fully rather see Lenny at the helm than our current Coach Skeletor, given that Nate is not a possibility. Lenny didn’t have squat to work with in Toronto or NYC. It ain’t rocket science — it’s fundamentals & intensity, two things the Supes are short on and that Lenny knows more about than most people.
March 13th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
“Lenny didn’t have squat to work with in Toronto or NYC. ”
I disagree with that. His rosters in Toronto weren’t that bad. To be fair his teams in Toronto did suffer greatly from missed games due to injury, but when he was fired both VC and Antonio Davis made comments to the effect that Lenny was way too soft as a coach, he didn’t command his players’ respect, didn’t emphasize defense enough and that the game had passed him by.
“It ain’t rocket science — it’s fundamentals & intensity, two things the Supes are short on and that Lenny knows more about than most people. ”
I guess Lenny had so much intensity and passion that he quit in NY with a full year left on his contract before he could get fired again.
March 13th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
- Dang! I didn’t take the time to spell check my post…on a blog!! For gosh sakes what was I thinking?!?!
- This whole “well the Coach had no talent excuse” is basically pointless. If you can excuse a coach for not doing well because he doesn’t have any talent then you are saying that coaching is pointless. If that is the case then they might as well just not have a coach at all.
March 13th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
His last two seasons of 24 and 33 wins are definately something to write home about…he maybe be the “winningest” coach in the NBA but he is also the NBA “losingest” coach as well…what on Earth would be the point of having another retread coach on this team?
March 13th, 2007 at 9:37 pm
“The only good thing about Bob hill is that I don’t have to worry about paying to go see the “Bodies” exhibit at the SAM.”
LOL Ballo, nice one.
This whole Nate bashing crap is just stupid. Any coach who can inspire a crew of losers to slow down the game, play smart, play tough defense, is a great coach in my book. WHO CARES HOW MUCH HE GETS PAID??!! It’s totally irrelevant. So he’s overrated? Who cares? He has a great system, he inspires players to play defense (except the insufferables like Ray Allen, who you just can’t teach that to)
quoting MyK: “This whole “well the Coach had no talent excuse” is basically pointless. If you can excuse a coach for not doing well because he doesn’t have any talent then you are saying that coaching is pointless. If that is the case then they might as well just not have a coach at all.”
Myk, I think the argument is that he is coaching the no-talents to do BETTER than they would have done under other coaches. The record will still look like crap until he has a couple of years to get the misfits into his system. You’ll see…. a fine sumptous serving of Corvus is coming your way next year. Or the year after.
March 14th, 2007 at 10:31 am
“This whole Nate bashing crap is just stupid. Any coach who can inspire a crew of losers to slow down the game, play smart, play tough defense, is a great coach in my book. ”
People who defend Nate always use the one season and completely ignore the other three where he couldn’t coach his way out of a paper bag.
“WHO CARES HOW MUCH HE GETS PAID??!! It’s totally irrelevant. So he’s overrated? Who cares? He has a great system, he inspires players to play defense (except the insufferables like Ray Allen, who you just can’t teach that to)”
Of course it matters what he gets paid. If I’m paying a guy to be one of the top 5 in his profession then his track record had better be commensurate with his peers. See, it’s comments like that that prove your feelings about Nate color your perceptions of his coaching ability. Even his best team was terrible defensively. You’re confusing slow down possession basketball with defense. They aren’t the same thing.
March 14th, 2007 at 7:25 pm
Are you saying Nate’s Sonics didn’t play defense? Or that you can’t see Portland’s improvements in that area since Nate has arrived? There IS something to slow down possession basketball related to defense: It’s called taking care of the ball. Defense is played on both ends of the floor. Even on offense, you still need to defend the ball.
Don’t get me wrong, I think at times Nate took this too seriously and didn’t exploit the fast break enough. I was one of the most vociferous against this behavior, just ask the guys at the PI Sonics forum.
You can argue “he’s overrated,” but the point is he does a better job of coaching defense, and that’s exactly what Seattle needs. Perhaps there’s another coach out there who can do the same thing for less money, fine, point him out, let’s discuss him, instead of going on and on about how “Nate’s overrated”. Portland decided to pay him that money, and that’s their decision, end of story. I’m not the GM, neither are you, so why sweat it? We’re looking for a good match for the sonics… why sweat a mil or two when looking at these budgets? Coach’s salary doesn’t count against the cap anyways.
Actually my feelings are that NBA coaches aren’t paid too much, given what they can do for a team if they’re the right coach for the team. Is it perhaps that you don’t believe that coaching is so critical; perhaps you think that defense isn’t all that important either?
It takes time to learn a defensive coach’s system. Depending on coach/system/team, the first two years are not necessarily going to gel with such a system. People who bash Nate consistently can’t get that point.
March 14th, 2007 at 8:22 pm
“Are you saying Nate’s Sonics didn’t play defense?”
I’ll say it, they were the 27th least efficient defense in Nate’s best year. The overall defense looked a lot better than that because of the slow down possession offense. That doesn’t mean that they played a lick of defense that year. Sure they’re better than they were last year (there’s no teams in history that aren’t) but if in his best year as a coach he was at that level, how can you say his team played defense?
March 14th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
What stat(s) are you using in your “27th least efficient defense”? Number of opponent points allowed? Somehow that stat doesn’t mean much when you’re winning more than 50% of your games…
March 15th, 2007 at 7:52 am
“What stat(s) are you using in your “27th least efficient defense”?”
Points per 100 possessions.
“Number of opponent points allowed?”
What would this have to do with efficiency?
“Somehow that stat doesn’t mean much when you’re winning more than 50% of your games…”
Helps that we had one of the top 3 most efficient offenses. Also helps that we beat our ‘expected wins’ number by 4 games vs. where we should have been based on our average margin of victory.
March 15th, 2007 at 9:44 am
“People who defend Nate always use the one season and completely ignore the other three where he couldn’t coach his way out of a paper bag.”
Don’t know why this didn’t get through the first time, but I find that to be a pretty funny statement comming from someone who was a staunch supporter of Bob Hill not long before the all-star break.
I’d love to see which coach you think could’ve done better than Nate with the squads he’s had. Portland has already passed their win total from last year.
March 15th, 2007 at 11:10 am
“I find that to be a pretty funny statement comming from someone who was a staunch supporter of Bob Hill not long before the all-star break. ”
Glad you appreciate the irony. That still doesn’t change the fact Nate stunk most of his time here. Naming him to coach the team shortly after retiring his number was just one in a long line of bad decisions by Howard Schultz. His first couple of seasons he was no better a coach than Bob Hill, the problem was that after you hang a guys number up in the rafters it makes it kind of tough to fire him.
“I’d love to see which coach you think could’ve done better than Nate with the squads he’s had. Portland has already passed their win total from last year. ”
Wow … they improved on a 21 win season … when you’re the worst team in the league there is literally nowhere to go but up.