4/7/07 Box Score: Sonics 106 Jazz 103
Posted on Saturday, April 7th, 2007 at 10:51 pm by Big Chris
Rashard Lewis was the man in the second half! After a very flat and lackluster middle two quarters, the team played lights out in the 4th quarter. I don’t feel the least bit bad for the Jazz. 
Statistically an uninspiring game for the Sonics in all categories except for shooting. Nobody in double figures on rebounds or assists. Interestingly, the Jazz had 7 players score in double figures.
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| Seattle | ||||||||||||
| Name | Min | FG | 3Pt | FT | Off | Reb | Ast | TO | Stl | Blk | PF | Pts |
| R. Lewis | 43 | 12-19 | 6-10 | 5-7 | 2 | 8 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 35 |
| C. Wilcox | 21 | 4-8 | 0-1 | 0-0 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 8 |
| N. Collison | 32 | 4-8 | 0-0 | 6-10 | 1 | 7 | 4 | 0 | 3 | 1 | 3 | 14 |
| D. Wilkins | 19 | 4-7 | 1-3 | 0-0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 9 |
| E. Watson | 43 | 6-13 | 3-6 | 0-0 | 0 | 0 | 9 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 15 |
| M. Gelabale | 23 | 3-4 | 2-3 | 1-2 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 9 |
| J. Petro | 19 | 2-5 | 0-0 | 0-0 | 2 | 4 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 4 |
| A. Brown | 10 | 2-2 | 0-0 | 0-0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 4 |
| M. Wilks | 26 | 2-3 | 0-0 | 4-4 | 0 | 1 | 6 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 8 |
| R. Allen | DNP - Coach’s Decision | |||||||||||
| D. Fortson | DNP - Coach’s Decision | |||||||||||
| R. Swift | DNP - Coach’s Decision | |||||||||||
| L. Ridnour | DNP - Sprained Left Ankle | |||||||||||
| M. Sene | DNP - Coach’s Decision | |||||||||||
| Totals | 236 | 39-69 | 12-23 | 16-23 | 6 | 25 | 25 | 13 | 7 | 3 | 13 | 106 |
| Percentages: | .565 | .522 | .696 | Team Rebounds: 7 |
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| Utah | ||||||||||||
| Name | Min | FG | 3Pt | FT | Off | Reb | Ast | TO | Stl | Blk | PF | Pts |
| R. Brewer | 18 | 5-7 | 0-1 | 2-2 | 3 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 12 |
| C. Boozer | 31 | 8-14 | 0-0 | 0-0 | 3 | 13 | 4 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 16 |
| M. Okur | 34 | 5-8 | 0-2 | 0-0 | 1 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 10 |
| D. Fisher | 31 | 4-11 | 1-4 | 0-0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 9 |
| D. Williams | 42 | 10-17 | 2-3 | 2-3 | 3 | 5 | 13 | 5 | 1 | 0 | 4 | 24 |
| M. Harpring | 29 | 4-6 | 1-2 | 1-1 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 4 | 10 |
| G. Giricek | 22 | 4-9 | 1-4 | 1-1 | 0 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 10 |
| J. Collins | 7 | 0-1 | 0-0 | 0-0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 |
| P. Millsap | 16 | 5-6 | 0-0 | 2-3 | 1 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 12 |
| R. Araujo | 5 | 0-1 | 0-0 | 0-0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 |
| A. Kirilenko | DNP - Coach’s Decision | |||||||||||
| C.J. Miles | DNP - Coach’s Decision | |||||||||||
| D. Brown | DNP - Coach’s Decision | |||||||||||
| Totals | 235 | 45-80 | 5-16 | 8-10 | 14 | 38 | 28 | 15 | 8 | 2 | 17 | 103 |
| Percentages: | .562 | .312 | .800 | Team Rebounds: 4 |
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| Game Info | ||||||||||||
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Technical Fouls: None Attendance: 19,911 Officials: Benny Adams, Mike Callahan, Violet Palmer |
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Plus/Minus
Quite the range in this game. Mickael Gelabale led the team at +22. Damien Wilkins was the other end of the spectrum at -21
Help Value (hv=Reb+Ast+Blk+Stl-TO)
Nick Collison was +15, and Earl Watson +10. Damien Wilkins achieved the rare negative number at -2.
April 7th, 2007 at 11:29 pm
It feels so good every time the Sonics beat the Jazz, the Blazers, the Spurs, the Nuggets and the Lakers. (Did I miss any?)
April 7th, 2007 at 11:42 pm
Jesus H. Christ, Rashard, don’t you know the meaning of “Oden”?
April 8th, 2007 at 12:04 am
Dammit, I hate Rashard Lewis.
Well, if Lewis signs a contract that’s worth more than a total of $100,000,000 during the upcoming off-season, then I hope that it’s with a team other than the Seattle Supersonics—there’s no denyin’ it!
April 8th, 2007 at 12:23 am
Let’s just hope that Rashard agrees to the two-year extension with the Supes once he finds out that nobody, not even the Bobcats and Magic, believes he is worth that type of money. With that said, what an incredible performance in the second half by Lewis (I think it’s safe to say that Shane Battier and Gerald Wallace could not do what Lewis did in this game). I am going to revise the win total for a Western Conference team with Rashard Lewis as its best player to 30 games. It’s been really neat to watch this guy go from the kid crying in Vancouver to a man that is now screwing up our draft position, a la Brandon Roy.
April 8th, 2007 at 12:35 am
Why can they play so well for such short periods of time?? It’s maddening…
Alex,
- I think one would argue that Wallace or Battier on this team (with a healthy Ray) wouldn’t let the game get so far out of hand in the first place. I don’t understand why one game makes you think he can suddenly lead this team to such great heights…people are just desperate to support the kid. Its amazing
April 8th, 2007 at 12:48 am
Wallace is sick, Battier is a nice role player.
But Lewis has one something those two don’t have - the ability to create mismatch and demand double team.
If we do lose Lewis, I want us to somehow get our hands on Josh Smith. This guy has been putting up ridiculous numbers lately.
finally, I think the Jazz’ PA announcer has the most annoying voice - up top with the Spurs’ ..
My ears bleed everytime I have to hear that PA dude yells “Tim Duncan, TIMMM DUNCAN” twice everytime he scores.
I GET IT, HIS NAME IS FREAKING TIM DUNCAN.
April 8th, 2007 at 1:04 am
Well, it’s not just one game. The team is 9-13 with him as its best player. What is its record with Wallace or Battier as its best player? I would guess 3-19 for Wallace. I may give Battier a fourth win.
April 8th, 2007 at 3:23 am
You guys are crazy. Every team in the league would take Rashard if they could. Houston would trade Battier and Charlotte would trade Wallace for him in a second. How many 3s are better than Rashard? LeBron, Carmelo, Pierce, McGrady are better, Carter is probably better, but then who else? Josh Howard and Deng are potentially as good (and will both end up being better, I think). At worst, Rashard is the 7th or 8th best 3 in the league.
April 8th, 2007 at 3:26 am
The thing is, Rashard has never played with a serious lowpost center. That would be his ideal situation. I think a Battier-Rashard deal might happen (it would be Battier plus the moon, of course)…McGrady’s back is about to give out forever and Yao needs a new running mate….a hometown guy named Rashard would fit the bill…
April 8th, 2007 at 5:22 am
Wow.
So after losing almost every close game when they still were playing for something they’re now coming back from 20 down in 4th quarters, when there’s nothing to play for anymore.
@Lester:
It’s not about Shard not being a good player or Battier alone leading your team to more victories. It’s about the balance of our squad and that’s just not given, if you’ve got two weak side players demanding almost every shot and not playing any defense.
When was the last time a squad build around two guys with those abilities having a real shot at winning the title?
I can’t remember something like this ever happened and that’s why I think keeping Shard, for what he will ask for, will come back to haunt this franchise.
So it’s not comparing what Shard or Battier could give you, cause Battier makes only half of what Shard will earn, it’s looking at how to build a team than can succeed in this league.
A good team should have a dominand low post player and/or point guard and we’ve got none of that. As long as we won’t have that, we’re going to be a 2nd round playoff team at the very best and I’m not satisfied with that.
So what would you rather have?
A re-signed Rashard, but still problems in the low post and at the poing guard spot, or a team with (a guy like)Shane Battier, who earns way less and therefore having the ability to spend around 10-15 mil at the pg, pf or center spot for a guy that makes a difference?
April 8th, 2007 at 9:21 am
I’m still trying to figure out why the sonics are trying to win games. All the other teams in our position have it figured out but us. Bob hill is playing rashard 43 mintues a game… i’m sorry but this is just ridiculous. Winning does this team NOTHING at this point.
April 8th, 2007 at 9:44 am
If you were Clay Bennett would you ante up a max contract to a player like Lewis knowing it not only puts you over the cap, but into luxury tax territory?
The Sonics, before they even try to re-sign Rashard, are going to be sitting around the $54mil mark because of their draft pick.
I think if they truly do want Lewis back, then they are going to try and unload at least one contract to a team under the cap. Watson, or Ridnour, or Wilkens are the top candidates I think, with possibly Wilcox if they feel they can pin their center hopes on Robert Swift next season, moving Collison to power forward,but that’s a longshot.
With money being the central issue right now for a new arena Bennetts group isn’t in the position of paying dollar for dollar luxury tax, expecially since they are in the red already.
The squeeze is on and whoever the Sonics GM will be going into the offseason has alot of juggling to do. Also not factored in is the question of what to pay for a coach. Good coaches will be in high demand, such as an Ivaroni, thus driving the price up. Do they shell out $4 or $5mil, or do they go with a lower priced coach?
Charlotte, Orlando, and to a lesser extent Memphis, Atlanta, Chicago, Toronto, are the teams that could take on a bit more salary in trades.
Or do they bite the bullet for one year and pay some luxury tax and instead trade for contracts that expire the year after next season?
Any way you cut it it looks like there isn’t going to be room for major changes other than letting Lewis go, or jumping into trade waters with both feet. I don’t even see them adding on another $5mil in a player for the MLE.
Two max contracts in Allen and Lewis, to go along with the substantial ones of Ridnour, Wilcox, Collison, and Watson have them hamstrung. I think Rashard Lewis getting what he wants from the Supersonics organization is going to be tough, despite performances like last night.
April 8th, 2007 at 9:57 am
You guys are crazy. Every team in the league would take Rashard if they could. Houston would trade Battier and Charlotte would trade Wallace for him in a second. How many 3s are better than Rashard? LeBron, Carmelo, Pierce, McGrady are better, Carter is probably better, but then who else? Josh Howard and Deng are potentially as good (and will both end up being better, I think). At worst, Rashard is the 7th or 8th best 3 in the league.
- Maybe when Lewis shows he can be consistent for more than a one or two game stretch he might get more respect. I’m not sure what saying Rashard is the 7th or 8th best 3 in the league has to do with him deserving a Max contract. Does the 7th or 8th best Center deserve a max contract? Does the 7th or 8th best at any position really deserve a max contract? How can Ray who is the 7th best SG be overpaid but Rashard who is the 7th best SF (which is much weaker) not be wildley overpaid?
April 8th, 2007 at 9:57 am
Winning these games is like getting wasted the night before a job interview - it feels good at the time, but you regret it in the long run. Just Stupid. Go Gelabale.
April 8th, 2007 at 10:01 am
In several recent games Lewis has had a chance to step in and take a charge from, respectively, Gilbert Areanas and Kobe Bryant in the closing minutes of close games. He chose not to both times - with the excuse of not wanting to expose an outside shooter. I believe each play cost the Sonics the game (a good thing in my view, but I doubt Rashard is thinking along those lines) He is not a max player - his defense is not nearly tough enough. He is a great offensive player - no doubt, but not a max player.
April 8th, 2007 at 10:52 am
He is not a max player - his defense is not nearly tough enough. He is a great offensive player - no doubt, but not a max player.
- Is he even a “great” offensive player? I mean some offensive players are so good that you look past their defensive abilities (Steve Nash comes to mind)…Rashard needs to string together a month or two of dominant offensive play to be considered a great offensive player, IMO. Until then he is just a guy who has the potential each night to have a great game but you are only going to see it 5 out of 10 games.
April 8th, 2007 at 10:53 am
Or even just 2 out of 4 quarters. Both the Minny and the Utah game where they came back they came back because Rashard was so great in the 4th quarter. On the other hand, they NEEDED to come back in the 4th quarter because Rashard was so average the other quarters in that game
April 8th, 2007 at 10:55 am
Mike Wilks has had a nice run in last 8 appearances at an average of 12 minutes a night- 57% FG, 9/1 A/TO. Above average 1 on 1 defense stats this season and last, best team win % on court of the PGs. I don’t know if he comes back but good performance worth noting at least briefly.
April 8th, 2007 at 11:01 am
McCoy Says:
In several recent games Lewis has had a chance to step in and take a charge from, respectively, Gilbert Areanas and Kobe Bryant in the closing minutes of close games. He chose not to both times - with the excuse of not wanting to expose an outside shooter.
I don’t think you’ll ever see Rashard do the phsical dirty work. I think he’ll always have his flukey shoulder in the back of his mind. You hardly ever see him power to the rack for three point plays or wrestle in traffic for a tough defensive board.
Alex Chan Says:
Well, it’s not just one game. The team is 9-13 with him as its best player. What is its record with Wallace or Battier as its best player? I would guess 3-19 for Wallace. I may give Battier a fourth win.
You don’t seem to be grasping the argument. Wallace or Battier wouldn’t be the go-to player.
April 8th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
Yes, but Rashard Lewis also wouldn’t be the best player on the team. He would remain the second best player on the Supes, regardless of whatever contract he signs. My argument is that he is a much better second player on a team than Battier or Wallace. I think the statistics are fairly one-sided when you compare those two players to Rashard Lewis’s numbers over the last three years as a #2 player. With that said, the Supes should stand their ground and not give him the maximum contract. Other teams may also stonewall him. Thus, it is my optimistic prediction that Rashard will not opt-out of his contract and take the two-year extension.
April 8th, 2007 at 1:20 pm
Rashard Lewis sucks, All his accomplishments from now on is for nothing more than A bigger contract next year. he could careless about our teams draft hopes as long as he shines, the word team means nothing to him @ this point.
April 8th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
Alex, I may be wrong but I don’t think your strategy will work. If I’m correct Lewis has until some date around the end of June to formally opt out or not.
Since free agency doesn’t start until July sometime Rashard won’t even be testing the free agency waters until after he opts out. Therefore the stonewalling strategy won’t come into effect until after he decides. So accepting the remaining two years of his current contract doesn’t really match up with free agency. He, or the club, can’t have it both ways.
But his agent could read which way the wind blows before that and make a determination based on speculation only.
April 8th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Geez ya’ll. Lewis is a great player. He simply has the same malady of many of the straight out of HS players: he doesn’t consistently have an overdrive gear. KG who will most likely be a hall of famer has the same problem. That is what kept Minn. from winning in the playoffs. His performance lately comes from the fact that his hand has been forced. The team is looking at him at the end of the game instead of at Ray. So, he is stepping up. Yes, it is a knock on Lewis that he is not looking for the ball and attempting to exert control at important times. This is why I would not want Lewis to be the primary go to scorer on this team.
No, he is not a max player in my opinion.
As far as winning games and draft position. We could not get to the worst record. If you are a below the 3rd worst record, it is pretty much luck and chance to get one of the top 3 pick. So, 5 or 8th not a really big deal. As far as the players available, most of the players between 4-10 as things stand now are pretty similar. So, why lose games when it is not going to make a big difference?
Also, if you are a player on the team and your stats suffer, how does that help individual players? With the exception of the 2 base year players, any of the players could get traded. Why play fewer minutes or with lesser teammates if it will hurt your future contract prospects, especially if you could get traded and not get to enjoy a better pick?
Below is a list of top 5 picks who had no prominent impact as players on the teams that drafted them. The list is from 2000-2006. Seven drafts, fifteen names. That is 2 a year. 40% failure rate. Here is my list: Kwame Brown, Stromile Swift, Darius Miles, Marcus Fizer, Mike Dunleavy, Nickoloz Tskitishvili, Darko, Marvin Williams, Morrison, Shelden Williams, Tyrus Thomas, Shaun Livingston, Jay Williams, Eddy Curry, Tyson Chandler.
Considering that our odds of getting 1st or 2nd pick are slim and the odds of picking wrong are decent then just go play some bball. Take a few minutes from others to get Gelle and Sene some minutes, but go play.
I originally ran the names for the first eight picks instead of 5. It added more names but not a great deal. Also, the misses were primarily HS and international players.
April 8th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
My argument is that he is a much better second player on a team than Battier or Wallace.
You were comparing those players as first options and I don’t think you can stretch that argument out to determining which is a better complimentary player. Personally, i’d have the post (Wilcox, Swift, Collison, or hopefully an experienced vet…) be either the first, sometimes second option to Ray and have Battier or Wallace be the 3rd or 4th option. I like Wallace but would prefer Battier… not for his scoring but more for the intangibles he’d bring to the team. The Sonics currently lack that player that does all of the little things.
the Supes should stand their ground and not give him the maximum contract.
I think you can kiss Rashard goodbye if they take that tact.
the Sonics forward reiterated plans to opt out of the final two years of his contract and forfeit $21 million in hopes of signing a maximum or near-maximum deal as an unrestricted free agent.
“It just wasn’t the right time to get into all of that,” he said. “That time will come. I’m sure they’ll come and give me an offer pretty soon, and if they don’t, that tells me they really didn’t want me here in the first place.”
http://sonicscentral.com/bboard/viewtopic.php?t=2534
Maybe just a poor way of posturing on Lewis’s part but it comes off as someone that not interested in negotiating. He might only be willing to give the Supes one shot at making an offer.
April 8th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
I know that many of you have the mindset that the more games the team loses the greater the possibility that the team gets a better lottery pick, but your lack of understanding of why the team continues to play hard is a bit misplaced. The Supersonics might be better off losing games, but how would the coach, his staff, or any of the main players benefit from doing so? Hill’s days are most likely numbered, and if he has any aspirations to coach again, which he likely does, then he’s going to play the best players as much as possible in hopes that they’ll win. What are they gonna’ do if he doesn’t play those guys? Fire him?
And why would any of the players pack it in? None of them know if they’ll be back. Some may be playing for contracts or as auditions for other teams, but more than that these are professionals with a great deal of pride. I don’t know about the rest of you but I take a great deal of pride in working hard and would never tank purposely at my job.
April 8th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
I know that many of you have the mindset that the more games the team loses the greater the possibility that the team gets a better lottery pick, but your lack of understanding of why the team continues to play hard is a bit misplaced.
- I’m confused I know they played really hard last night and had a tremednous amount of pride because they didn’t pack it and came back to win. Does that mean that they didn’t have a tremendous amount of pride the night before when they played the Lakers??
- Again…to say that developing your younger players is somehow not as important as showing “pride” and “trying to win” is just silly. I’m sure two years from now when Sene is still underdeveloped we will all look back during this time and say “ya…but at least they played with a whole lotta pride!”
April 8th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
Here is my question to all the people who are supporting this need to still play all the veterans and try to win at all costs these last few games.
1) Do you know if we are OK with trading Damien because we can rely on Gelabale as our back up 3? Based on the development you’ve seen can you be sure that he Jelly will be OK, or should we keep Damien because Jelly just might not be ready for 25 minutes a night.
2) Same question goes for Sene. Have you seen enough to allow us to trade Petro??
I’m pretty sure the answer to both of these questions are “I don’t know”…so basically we are going into an huge offseason that should determine the near future of our franchise…and we have no idea how much we can rely on two of our young players. Sure seems like a smart idea
April 8th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
A cautionary tale for Lewis and his agent may be Bonzi Wells’s saga from a year ago. If Lewis decides to opt-out of the final two years of his contract, he better be sure that Orlando or Charlotte is willing to pay him the money he is desiring. If not, he could end up in a situation getting paid less than the amount of money he would have received had he just taken the two-year extension. Given Charlotte and Orlando may have other priorities to deal with this summer (Okafor, Howard, Wallace, Darko, etc.), I do not think it is out of the realm of possibility that nobody is going to entertain the idea of signing Rashard to a max deal. If that happens, Rashard may come begging back to the Supes.
April 8th, 2007 at 7:00 pm
How many times does this have to be repeated? Collison, Wilcox, and Petro are all YOUNG players and are being DEVELOPED. All three are very inconsistent and need minutes to gain confidence and improve. All three have had great games this year (Wilcox and Collison far more often than Petro) and all three will be major players in the rotation next year.
April 8th, 2007 at 7:02 pm
Good God! First of all, what’s wrong with going after a win? Isn’t that what we play for? No coach in his right mind is going to try to lose games and lose his job to move up in the draft. Sorry guys.
Alex, Rashard Lewis doesn’t bring the character issues that Bonzi Wells brings to a team. Somebody like Mark Cuban or Paul Allen would be willing to sign him. I think he’s a pretty coachable guy who is willing not to be the first option even though at times he’s deserving.
I bet you all would say that Kevin Garnett is deserving of a max contract eventhough his team is not winning too much right now? What about Allen Iverson? His team’s defense isn’t the best either at this time.
I just think this team needs a better coach, one more star, and a better supporting cast. I personally believe that Rashard has too many good years left in the league to give up on him this early, and his defensive potential is better than Allen’s.
April 8th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
I really think Charlotte would prefer Rashard over Gerald Wallace, and I think a sign and trade is possible. Charlotte could also give Rashard a max deal, I think, leaving Wallace as a free agent (and send Adam Morrison deep down the bench).
April 8th, 2007 at 7:14 pm
If we let Rashard go for nothing, do we try to chase down FAs like Nocioni, Outlaw, or Stephenson? What happens to the moola we have available if Rashard leaves w/o compensation from the Sonics?
April 8th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
You cannot compare Rashard to Garnett or Allen Iverson. Those two guys have left a lasting impact on the NBA with their games and personalities. Rashard even admitted earlier this season that Shawn Marion was a better player than him at the time. The Supes wouldn’t be giving up on Rashard if they didn’t offer him a maximum deal in the same way that the Mavs did not give up on Nash. Another team just offered Nash more money but I suspect the situation will be different with Rashard. Let’s hope that the two teams that can give Rashard the max, Charlotte and Orlando, will decide against it.
April 8th, 2007 at 8:13 pm
his defensive potential is better than Allen’s
Based on… what?
April 8th, 2007 at 8:24 pm
“A cautionary tale for Lewis and his agent may be Bonzi Wells’s saga from a year ago. If Lewis decides to opt-out of the final two years of his contract, he better be sure that Orlando or Charlotte is willing to pay him the money he is desiring. If not, he could end up in a situation getting paid less than the amount of money he would have received had he just taken the two-year extension. Given Charlotte and Orlando may have other priorities to deal with this summer (Okafor, Howard, Wallace, Darko, etc.), I do not think it is out of the realm of possibility that nobody is going to entertain the idea of signing Rashard to a max deal. If that happens, Rashard may come begging back to the Supes.”
Even though Rashard Lewis is an overrated player, he still won’t be in the same situation as DeShawn Stevenson or Bonzi Wells during the upcoming off-season. One way or another, Lewis will receive a lot of coin from somewhere.
“I just think this team needs a better coach, one more star, and a better supporting cast. I personally believe that Rashard has too many good years left in the league to give up on him this early, and his defensive potential is better than Allen’s.”
Look, folks, Rashard Lewis has peaked as a player. Additionally, Lewis in his prime; thus, he possesses no more potential.
Lewis, without question, is not the type of player who a prosperous franchise builds its roster around as the centerpiece.
“If we let Rashard go for nothing, do we try to chase down FAs like Nocioni, Outlaw, or Stephenson? What happens to the moola we have available if Rashard leaves w/o compensation from the Sonics?”
As it is, Andres Nocioni and Travis Outlaw are restricted free-agents who’ll probably re-sign with their respective teams. Next, DeShawn Stevenson is a shooting guard. Lastly, the Seattle Supersonics will be over the salary cap regardless of whether or not the team re-signs Rashard Lewis.
“I really think Charlotte would prefer Rashard over Gerald Wallace, and I think a sign and trade is possible. Charlotte could also give Rashard a max deal, I think, leaving Wallace as a free agent (and send Adam Morrison deep down the bench).”
If the Charlotte Bobcats were to acquire Rashard Lewis via a sign-and-trade with the Seattle Supersonics rather than outright sign him — which, in all reality, is a plausible scenerio — then I suspect that Adam Morrison would be coming back to the Pacific Northwest.
April 8th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
I, by the way, am not a proponent of a sign-and-trade deal with the Charlotte Bobcats. In that case, there’s almost no way that the Seattle Supersonics would receive equal value for Lewis—especially since Adam Morrison has proven himself to be worse than one-dimensional players like Jason Kapono and Kyle Korver.
April 8th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
I am going to eat a little crow about Gerald Wallace. The guy’s been performing at quite a high level recently. I would be all right with Gerald Wallace taking the place of Rashard if the Sonics were able to land a point guard that could shoot 40% from three (I think Earl’s 40% from the three point line in the second half of the season is a little bit of a mirage). My biggest concern with losing Rashard is that Ray Allen would be the only guy among the starting five who could consistently knock down the long-ball. There were enough spacing issues with the team this year; imagine the spacing issues with only one guy capable of shooting the three-ball. With that said, I have no idea how the Supes can find a point guard who can shoot 40% from the three (I don’t think Conley or Collison has the ability to shoot at that level from 23 feet yet).
April 8th, 2007 at 9:22 pm
In other news, Astronaut Vladmir Radmanovic hopes to make his return from outer space this Thursday.
April 8th, 2007 at 9:50 pm
“If we let Rashard go for nothing, do we try to chase down FAs like Nocioni, Outlaw, or Stephenson? What happens to the moola we have available if Rashard leaves w/o compensation from the Sonics?”
Whether we resign Rashard or not……we will only have the MLE to sign free agents.
April 8th, 2007 at 10:40 pm
“I have no idea how the Supes can find a point guard who can shoot 40% from the three (I don’t think Conley or Collison has the ability to shoot at that level from 23 feet yet)”
acie law
April 8th, 2007 at 11:03 pm
The big problem is that the types of players that we need are not easily pried from the hands of the teams that have them. And who are these players anyway?
There is a reason that the league is top heavy right now. There are a handful of good teams, a few really bad teams and a big ole pile of mediocrity. Getting the right players are tough. Given the choice the best MLE players go to the best teams. “If the pay is the same, let’s go to a winner.” It is easy for us at home to evaluate what needs to be done. Being able to find the person that fits the role, make the best offer for FA/trade or get it right on a draft pick is a totally different thing. Financially, we are stuck riding the guys we have drafted and/or trading Ray or Rashard. I think they fire Hill and Sund, but a major roster change will be tough.
April 8th, 2007 at 11:20 pm
Another big man who can board and finish, a consistent point guard and a playing style that spreads the ball around a bit could quickly change the outlook of this team. Of course, this year they thought the 2 necessary players were on the roster and that the team would continue to be offensively efficient.
Cup half empty: The team drafts another player who either needs to be developed or pushes Wilkens/Gelle/Sene/Petro/Ridnour to the bench. They can’t get a decent FA or the one they get flames out with a beginning of the end of his career type season. No one truly steps up and the team is in the same place as last year.
Cup half full: Swift comes back healthy and strong. Wilcox plays hard every game. Either Watson stops shoot 3’s or Ridnour gets some self confidence. Either Gelle or Wilkens steps up as the definite back up. We resign Lewis to a less than max contract. We hire a new coach with a different offensive approach. With these changes, the team would be playoff bound with as many as 46 wins.
April 8th, 2007 at 11:35 pm
I would be all right with Gerald Wallace taking the place of Rashard if the Sonics were able to land a point guard that could shoot 40% from three (I think Earl’s 40% from the three point line in the second half of the season is a little bit of a mirage)
- I’ve consistently said that the Sonics success in each game seems to ride much more on whether Luke or Earl can hit a shot than anything Ray or Rashard can do…
April 8th, 2007 at 11:42 pm
Well, given the team’s 35-47 record last season and 34-48 record (my prediction) this season, I think it’s fairly clear that Luke and Earl cannot consistently hit the open three-point shots created by Ray or Rashard. The point guard that this team needs may not exist at this time.
April 9th, 2007 at 12:03 am
The PG “needs” to be able to hit an 18-20 footer. The trey is great, but if they could simply hit an open jumper, I would be happy.
April 9th, 2007 at 7:34 am
Anybody notice how much of the offense in the last 2 games has been essentially stationary? It seems like, time and again, the point brings the ball up and does one of 2 things - - pitch it into a back-to-the-basket post up situation, or holds it at the top of the key until about 12 seconds are left, and then throws it laterally (usually to the left wing) into a one-on-one isolation situation.
This offense has generally resulted in two outcomes, one good, and one bad. First, with the post ups, Wilcox has played very well, raising the question about whether he can become a legitimate post-up scorer (let’s ignore his failure to box out on defensive rebounds for a moment). Others with the post up plays have been much less successful. But there is not even a 2 person game going on here. Its essentially one-on-one.
Second, with the wing isolation plays, they almost always result in 3-pt shots, or long, intensely contested jumpers. While Rashard has hit these well, no one else has been consistent. Or, really, even good. Again its essentially a one-on-one play.
While these “plays” are being executed, what is going on elsewhere? From what I can see, nothing. Teammates are standing around, out of the way. They don’t even appear to be moving to get open for a kick-out pass or on a back-door cut.
Why?
What is the philosophy behind this approach to the offense? Are Wilcox and Rashard such dominant forces that we can, a la Michael Jordan, run clear-out after clear-out play and be unstoppable? (Note: even Jordan didn’t actually do this).
When I watch the really good teams play, there is constant ball movement, and constant off-the-ball movement. The 3rd, 4th, and 5th options on the floor are constantly testing the defense. And, when they find a seam, the hard workers are rewarded with an advantageous pass.
When I watch the Sonics, none of this happens. Why?
This is very different from what I remember of the game the Sonics played in 04-05. I remember ball movement around the perimeter. I remember guards driving and kicking the pass. I remember wings slashing to the basket.
Why are we playing like we have Michael Jordan or Tim Duncan on the team? We don’t even have Ray Allen.
But, even with Ray Allen, why have we trained the team to do this? Are our players not capable of a more complex offense? Are they not capable of a ball movement offense? Are they unable to run the pick and roll? Can they not run picks away from the ball? Can they do so only for Ray Allen?
Are they all just too tired to move once they get down the floor?
I would submit that they are not too tired. Nor are they too inexperienced to handle a ball movement offense.
Quite to the contrary, we have players who, I think, are well suited to such an offense - - Collison, both points, Rashard, Wilkins, Gelabale. Even Wilcox is showing some signs of this. But, if we are going to get better, something has to be done to fix this offense.
April 9th, 2007 at 8:18 am
I disagree that we need a PG who can hit the open jump shot…..yeah, that should be something a PG can do, but given the makeup of our other perimeter players, what this team really needs is a PG who can get to the rack.
We need a defensive mined PG, who’s first thought is to distribute the ball…….second though is to penetrate and take it to the bucket and finish or dish……and third thinks about hitting the open “J”. IMO, that is the kind of PG this team needs given its current roster makeup.
April 9th, 2007 at 9:06 am
Guest…
- You have done a beautiful job of summing up what I have been saying all season. Our offense is so horrible that it leaves players stuck having to take contested shots. Some games they are going to be on fire and it is going to work out. However, for the most part they are going to not make those shots and we will lose.
Frozen…
- A penetrating PG would be nice…really what the Sonics needs is a consistent threat at PG. Whether they can shoot an outside shot or they can penetrate and score…the defense has to believe these guys are a threat on offense. When L/E are shooting well that seems to happen…they just don’t ever seem to be able to do it consistently.
April 9th, 2007 at 9:12 am
I read a story in the Denver Post(or was it Times?) this morning that says Lenny Wilkens might be interested in coaching the Sonics, but it’s more likely he will become team president. It also said he is very involved right now in making changes to the team. This wasn’t the new direction I was hoping for.
I also see that Rashard Lewis’ agent has begun contract discussions, or so an article on hoopshype says.
Sorry, I couldn’t wait for the daily roundup.
April 9th, 2007 at 9:35 am
“Quite to the contrary, we have players who, I think, are well suited to such an offense - - Collison, both points, Rashard, Wilkins, Gelabale. Even Wilcox is showing some signs of this. But, if we are going to get better, something has to be done to fix this offense. ”
Agreed. There’s nowhere near enough movement off the ball. Gelabale and Nick are about the only two guys who do it consistently. And IMO Earl and Damien tend to get too dribble happy at times.
Apart from his defensive shortcomings Chris Wilcox has done an admirable job of drawing double teams in the paint on postups. With an outside threat like Rashard Lewis the team should be able to take advantage of that inside out game. If I were to keep this same essential group together for next season, the offense should be rearranged around Chris Wilcox in the post as a primary mode of attack just as it was when Kemp was here. Chris is actually a better passer out of the double team than I thought, too.
April 9th, 2007 at 9:39 am
“Frozen…
- A penetrating PG would be nice…really what the Sonics needs is a consistent threat at PG. ”
Yes, but we don’t need another consistent threat that just settles for jump shots all game long. We already have that in Ray and Rashard……we really, really, really, need a PG who can penetrate as a strong part of their game. This team especially needs it late in games in order to keep the pressure on the defense when we have a lead.
The last thing we need is another jump shooting perimeter player at the PG position, regardless of whether they are a good shot from out there or not. If they can’t penetrate on a regular basis and defend….then there is no spot on this roster for them, as long as we still have Ray and Rashard as the two other perimeter starters.
April 9th, 2007 at 9:56 am
“Apart from his defensive shortcomings Chris Wilcox has done an admirable job of drawing double teams in the paint on postups… If I were to keep this same essential group together for next season, the offense should be rearranged around Chris Wilcox in the post as a primary mode of attack just as it was when Kemp was here. Chris is actually a better passer out of the double team than I thought, too.”
Agreed… Well taught, Wilcox could really be the center of a successful offensive mix. But, it isn’t happening with this staff.
April 9th, 2007 at 9:59 am
Our current PG’s can’t penetrate becuase no one respects their jumper. People play off of them making it harder to penetrate. Our bigs aren’t the best finishers on dish plays either.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:41 am
Malaman41 is right. You have to own a good J if you want to be a successful penetrator. The only guard with a middling J who can drive is Wade, and that’s partly because the refs treat him like an untouchable God.
April 9th, 2007 at 10:53 am
Malaman41 is right. You have to own a good J if you want to be a successful penetrator. The only guard with a middling J who can drive is Wade, and that’s partly because the refs treat him like an untouchable God.
- …and Tony Parker
The last thing we need is another jump shooting perimeter player at the PG position, regardless of whether they are a good shot from out there or not
- They don’t need to be a jumpshooter…but they must be able to hit the shot. AD (despite a pretty bad FG% in 04/05) seemed to make you confident when he shot an 15 footer in the 4th quarter. Right now Earl and Lue do not…Luke had a nice streak going in the first half of the season…maybe someday he’ll figure it out.
April 9th, 2007 at 11:03 am
“Our current PG’s can’t penetrate becuase no one respects their jumper. People play off of them making it harder to penetrate. Our bigs aren’t the best finishers on dish plays either. ”
I disagree. Our PG’s don’t penetrate often because its not a strong part of either one of their games. Both would rather settle for the easy Jump Shot rather than go in the paint and initiate contact.
Heck, all our offense is right now is the PG and a post player playing Pick and Role at the top of the key. If a PG can’t get to the paint coming off a Pick and Role, then they never will be able to. It has nothing to do with the defender supposedly playing off them.
Luke and Ridnour simply do not try and get into the paint on a regular basis. That is their biggest weakness as PG’s, IMO.
April 9th, 2007 at 11:12 am
“Malaman41 is right. You have to own a good J if you want to be a successful penetrator. The only guard with a middling J who can drive is Wade, and that’s partly because the refs treat him like an untouchable God. ”
What does the refs giving Wade ticky tack fouls, have to do with Wade consistently making an effort to get into the paint. Wade would continue to penetrate and put pressure on a defense regardless of whether he was receiving every little bump as a foul, because penetrating is what he does so well……..
Wade’s ability to get into the paint has nothing to do with refs giving him ticky tack fouls, after he’s already gotten into the paint.
That is part of his game….which is what we need out of a guard…..regardless of the player getting ticky tack fouls called for them all the time……..
In addition, there are a number of PG’s with inconsistent outside shots that consistently get into the paint……..
TJ Ford
Jason Kidd
Andre Miller
Deron Williams
Chancy Billups
Just to name a handful of starting PG’s….
April 9th, 2007 at 11:18 am
I think they both do a fair amount of penetrating but both are poor finishers. Watson can’t make a lay-up and Ridnour bails out with his floater before getting to the rim or drawing contact.
April 9th, 2007 at 11:19 am
“- They don’t need to be a jumpshooter…but they must be able to hit the shot. AD (despite a pretty bad FG% in 04/05) seemed to make you confident when he shot an 15 footer in the 4th quarter. Right now Earl and Lue do not…Luke had a nice streak going in the first half of the season…maybe someday he’ll figure it out. ”
I disagree. They need to be able to penetrate considerably better and on a more consistent basis alot more than they need to be able to hit the open jump shot. We’ve got jump shooters on our team, what we don’t have is a guard that can penetrate on a consistent basis.
Watch Andre Miller play, he gets in the paint whenever he wants to……and its not because he can hit an outside jump shot consistently, because he can’t.
Same with TJ Ford. And its not like Jason Kidd is a model of consistentcy with his outside jumper……I’ve seen him lay enouhg bricks up there from outside to build a new arena in Seattle.
Chauncy Billips, inconsistent outside shot…….very good at getting in the paint and getting free throws when the Pistons need it.
April 9th, 2007 at 11:43 am
“I think they both do a fair amount of penetrating but both are poor finishers. Watson can’t make a lay-up and Ridnour bails out with his floater before getting to the rim or drawing contact. ”
I don’t think they penetrate very often….however I think you probably bring up a very good point on why they don’t……because neither is a very good finisher in the paint.
April 9th, 2007 at 11:47 am
“I think they both do a fair amount of penetrating but both are poor finishers. Watson can’t make a lay-up and Ridnour bails out with his floater before getting to the rim or drawing contact. ”
I agree with Dick. Neither Watson nor Rid are really capable of finishing at the rack consistently, something Wade and Billups with their greater size don’t have as much trouble with.
“Heck, all our offense is right now is the PG and a post player playing Pick and Role at the top of the key. If a PG can’t get to the paint coming off a Pick and Role, then they never will be able to. It has nothing to do with the defender supposedly playing off them. ”
I don’t think either guy has a very quick first step which is also part of the problem, but it looks like they’re being coached to shoot the J rather than try drawing a foul at the rim. Early on in the season it seemed like Luke was driving on a lot more possessions than he is now, but I haven’t verified that statistically.
April 9th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Yes, I’m not even going to get into how disgusted I am with the offensive schemes Bob Hill has the team running out there. The lack of creativity is mind boggling.
I think you are correct that neither has a great first step and their lack of size does hinder their ability to finish once they do get in the paint, consistently.
April 9th, 2007 at 12:55 pm
Why do we spend so much time blogging about players and ignoring the coach?
I personally feel like Coach Hill is at least partially responsible for:
* Ridnour’s regression in his development since 2005.
* The lack of emphasis put on defensive leadership for our stars: Allen and Lewis. (Ray Allen’s defense was actually decent at the NBA All Star game. Did anyone else notice that? Why not play it during the regular season?)
* The lack of a standard rotation. We never know if Gelabale is going to get minutes or Wilkens or Watson or Ridnour unless somebody is hurt. There seems to be some potential to develop a player as a sixth man: Gelabale, Petro, Sene, or somebody. But, the commitment is not there. Pick with a guy as a sixth man and stick with him.
If we got one solid post presence and a penetrating point guard, and most importantly a new coach this team would be drastically improved. Here’s a somewhat realistic offseason wish-list:
Coach: Rick Carlisle or Silas.
Point: Acie Law or Collison.
Post presence: A big body similar to Brendan Haywood (not necessarily a world beater, but, a veteran savvy enough to hold their own with an aging Shaq or another quality center).
If we got these three pieces and resigned the guy who creates our mismatches for less than the maximum (Lewis), I’d be very hopeful.
April 9th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
James B,
I think we’ve all just gotten tired of complaining about Hill. I know I don’t even want to talk about him anymore as I figure its a forgone conclusion that he won’t be around next season.
I agree with you that a fair amount of the blame for performance this season and player stagnation can be put on Hill’s shoulders.
April 9th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Hill wants a job in the NBA. Why should he be working for draft choices for Bennett and players for another coach? He wants to win now. Bennett doesn’t seem to care what happens on the floor and I question his desire to keep the team in Washington. IMO injuries have hurt Ridnour’s development much more than Hill as his coach. My biggest fear is Lenny Wilkens.
April 9th, 2007 at 3:04 pm
What exactly has Rick Carlisle accomplised during his tenures in Detroit and Indiana that has you so enamored with the guy? Detroit won the championship the year after Dumars fired him. Under his watch, Indiana has gone from a title contender to a team that is more dreadful that the one we are watching on a dialy basis. I’ll admit that what has happened in Indiana isn’t all entirely his fault, but I’ve still heard rumblings from his players this year that they abhor his coaching methodology.