The Case For Rick Adelman
Posted on Monday, April 23rd, 2007 at 11:36 am by Xteve
In the wake of this disastrous season, one in which Coach Bob Hill is almost certain to be let go later this week or next, the time has come to review some possible candidates for his replacement. One of the most well-respected and successful NBA coaches currently unemployed is Rick Adelman, former Blazers and Kings head coach.
There are a number of roster and front office personnel decisions yet to be made which certainly would influence the choice of head coach, but if owner Clay Bennett decides to re-sign Rashard Lewis and retain both him and Ray Allen next year I believe Adelman would be a good choice as head coach.
Adelman’s record is both long and distinguished; in 16 seasons as a head coach he sports a winning percentage of .610 and a playoff record of 70-68, a record few of his peers can boast. His teams have made the playoffs 14 out of his 16 seasons and of those 14 playoff teams 7 have advanced to the second round or beyond. In the regular season his teams have won 50 or more games 9 times and 60 or more games twice (with 2 59 win seasons as well).
In terms of game style he is known for preferring an uptempo offense, which would would be a good fit for many of the players currently on the Sonic roster, in particular the current front line of Lewis, Wilcox, and Collison. The traditional knock on him has been that he’s a bit laissez-faire on defense, but some analysis shows that he’s actually had some pretty good defensive teams. In 2005-06 his last Kings team finished the season in the middle of the pack defensively; 13th out of 30 at 105.2 points per 100 possessions. That is an impressive feat considering that the Kings frontcourt was mostly comprised of players who are not defensive stalwarts except for Ron Artest – Brad Miller, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Kenny Thomas to name a few. And the same is true before Artest arrived in Sacramento. From 1999 to 2003 the Kings consistently had above average defenses (again using points allowed per 100 possessions):
1999-00: 11th
2000-01: 7th
2001-02: 6th
2002-03: 2nd
And if we go further back to his salad days as head of the Drexler/Kersey/Terry Porter Portland Trailblazers, Adelman’s defensive credentials are even more impressive. In 6 seasons with the Blazers his teams had a top 5 defense every year until his final season, 1993-94. Had this year’s Sonics managed anything close to that level of defensive efficiency they would have been a completely different team.
The second criticism most often said of Adelman is that his teams lack killer instinct in playoff games; one of the most recent examples being the Game 7 loss to the Lakers a couple of years ago. But those with sharp memories may recall that the Kings essentially pissed that win away by missing key free throw and a failure to convert a 3-on-1 fast break very late in the game; something that clearly falls on the player’s shoulders. I will concede that Adelman perhaps should have handled Chris Webber’s return from injury differently as the Kings descent into the tank seemed to coincide with Webber’s return, but tell me what coach wouldn’t be playing his prime big guy as much as possible, never mind Webber’s massive salary?
There are other candidates who I would also support for the Sonics head coaching job next year for different reasons and presuming certain roster moves were made, but as of right now there is no one candidate as seasoned or as fit for this current roster and style of play as Rick Adelman. When Clay Bennett and Lenny Wilkens meet to discuss possible staff changes later this week, there is no reason why Adelman’s name shouldn’t come up. He still retains a house in Portland, reportedly loves living in the Pacific Northwest, and was recently quoted as saying that the Sonics job was one that held some interest for him.
“As far as coaching, there are very few jobs I would really be interested in,” said Adelman, whose son currently is an advance scout for the Sonics. “There are very few coaching jobs I would consider. I think I can do a good job. I did a good job in Sacramento and things changed for whatever reason. But if the right job came along, I would definitely be interested in it.”
As Frank Hughes points out in his article, the culture of the team would have to change somewhat, with tough veterans brought in to provide some leadership, but I think that’s something that needs to be done no matter who the coach is next season, even if by some miracle Hill is retained. And there is no perfect candidate for the job; even highly sought after up-and-coming candidates like Marc Iavoroni are, after all, unproven. But I believe if the team decides it doesn’t want to part with one of Ray Allen or Rashard Lewis for whatever reason that they could do far worse for head coaching candidates than Rick Adelman.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:57 am
So Lenny and Bennett will talk later this week?
I thought they wanted to talk this weekend.
Adelman is a guy we should look at, if we intend to re-sign Shard. If not than I wouldn’t interview him for the job.
BTW: The Blazers probably will take a shot a a sign and trade for Lewis.
Though the only chance of making such a sign and trade happen would be by them including either LaFrentz or Randolph and I don’t like either of them. So as long as there isn’t a third team involved, taking on either LaFrentz or Randolph, I would be absolutely against it.
http://tinyurl.com/2thc3d
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:58 am
I’d much prefer Adelman and his style of play to Iavaroni and trying to recreate the Phoenix experience. I love Phoenix but that engine runs because of Nash. Take Nash out, as when he was injured, and they look alot like us. Lots of perimeter shooting and soft on D.
We don’t have any point guards that can come close to Steve Nash. I don’t think that system would help change the culture
or address our needs in Seattle.
I could live with Adelman.
Any news on when we’ll hear about Sund/Hill??
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:08 pm
Steve and Frank covered the case for Adelman well. I agree that he is the best proven coach available. The sticking point might be salary. I dont think he would want to accept less than $5 million a year for at least 3 years. $6 million or a 4th guaranteed year might test the negotiations. An assistant stepping up to headcoach for first time or a lesser but experience guy might be obtained at $2-3 mil a year and maybe not all guaranteed. I certainly hope that cost doesnt influence this decision.
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:10 pm
My guess is that you wil hear an annoucement on Thursday, but it could come sooner. Clay comes into town tomorrow.
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:11 pm
Hill has surgery tomorrow so showing some sensitivity about that the decision might be late this week or early next or maybe they let him interview for the job against others.
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:15 pm
Hill option kept open would be unusual and have potential problems but they dont know who they can actually get yet.
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:38 pm
adleman would be good. he’s an experienced coach who has been deep in the playoffs before
add some solid vets at each position and we’ll be a lot better
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:42 pm
Wouldn’t that be a nice bedside gift from Bennett to Hill. “Hi Bob, hope you recover from your surgery, and oh, by the way, we don’t want you back.”
But back to what Steve said. Add me to the list who think Rick Adelman is as good a choice as any out there. I loved watching that Kings team when they competed against the Shaq/Kobe Lakers team for top dogs in the West.
Like the current Phoenix Suns team, that Kings group played unselfishly, and even Chris Webber had good assists stats. Guys like Doug Christie and Vlade Divac complimented Webber and Bibby, and like Mark Ivarioni says, created that “culture of unselfishness”. But they also had the luxury of a power forward(Webber) and center(Divac) who could pass like a pointguard. Collison is a good passer but what about Wilcox, Swift, Petro?
But like Frank Hughes said, I think that some veterans would be needed for Adelman to make it work in Seattle. When he was finally let go it was when Sacramento started changing the core around towards younger players and Adelman couldn’t seem to get the same from the young guys that he could from the veterans, who with experience know how the ebb and flow of a game goes and by instinct and practice can gel a unit together, much like the current Pistons and Suns.
But I like his method and approach to the game. He had an uptempo style that resembles what the Suns are doing now with everyone getting a touch of the ball until the best opening for a score was there. But I have to admit that I studied the Kings defensive system far less and don’t really have an opinion on how Adelman is defensively. But with players like Chris Webber, Doug Christie, and Vlad Divac in their prime(okay, so Divac wasn’t quite in his prime), they had some pretty good rebounders and defenders.
But to me the whole key is if Adelman is the man then a change of youth to expereince would help the Supersonics.
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:55 pm
“When he was finally let go it was when Sacramento started changing the core around towards younger players and Adelman couldn’t seem to get the same from the young guys that he could from the veterans, who with experience know how the ebb and flow of a game goes and by instinct and practice can gel a unit together, much like the current Pistons and Suns.”
Yeah, and also when they made Peja the #1 option for those two years the team’s defense also went straight into the dumpster. I believe that team defense is a reflection of team leadership to an extent; when your best player or team captain or captains are matador defenders or totally disinterested in that side of the floor it’s only natural that the rest of the team follows suit. It’s definitely something the team should consider before deciding to bring back both Allen and Lewis together.
April 23rd, 2007 at 12:56 pm
Ballhandling and passing were all cores to that uptempo Princeton system ran in Sacramento. In their heyday, it seemed everyone was racking up assists except Peja, who got to stand around and bomb away.
April 23rd, 2007 at 1:17 pm
neither the kings or blazers were veteran teams when he took over.
The performance slide in Sacto also hd/has something to do with talent. Sac was 10 or so games better last year. they made the playoffs.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:06 pm
Yes but does Adelman wants to coach a team that is currently the 5th worst team in the leauge, with an uncertain future after this coming season???
Personally I will shiet my pants if he comes, we finally have a headcoach with some serious credential.
Oh and he is not going to come cheap neither.
April 23rd, 2007 at 2:16 pm
“Yes but does Adelman wants to coach a team that is currently the 5th worst team in the leauge, with an uncertain future after this coming season???”
The uncertainty surrounding where the team will be certainly will play a part in whoever they bring in; that aside if the Sonics land Greg Oden there’ll probably be no shortage of coaches wanting to work with him.
“Oh and he is not going to come cheap neither. ”
Nobody with his amount of experience usually does. There are a couple of other guys I’d consider; Carlisle and Iavoroni are both fine candidates with their own pros and cons; frankly all 3 are probably in the same ballpark as far as what it’d cost to bring them here.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:27 pm
I can’t see how anybody wouldn’t have Rick Carlisle as their #1 hope as our new coach. His resume thus far, albeit much much shorter than Adelman’s is more impressive IMO. Plus he would go straight from coaching JO to coaching Wilcox.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:32 pm
[deleted, off-topic]
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:32 pm
[ot]
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:34 pm
Please explain why Carlisle has a better resume than adelman.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:34 pm
[deleted, off-topic]
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Think Rick Adelman will consider the Sonic job?
Is there any precedent about a Coach having an opt out clause if the team moves cities?
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:40 pm
Vinny, I deleted your comments so as not to derail the thread. You can repost them on teh message board if you like.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:41 pm
I’m not really a Rick Adelman fan, but, that has more to do with him being a former Trail Blazers coach than his coaching abilities. The idea of watching him plea with refs for calls with a sour look on his face on our sidelines like he did for Drexler and Porter in Portland doesn’t really excite me. That being said, he’s a pretty decent coach.
But, these are my personal preferences for interviews:
1. Paul Silas
2. Rick Carlisle
3. Iavaroni (There are some rumors of Colangelo bringing him to Toronto…so we need to act fast if we want to interview him.)
4. John Casey
5. The best Dallas assistant available…
A reason for Silas or Carlisle over Adelman is that we need a disciplinarian or a defensive coach over an offensive minded coach. Even if we end up with a quality player like Brandan Wright from the draft, I still think that screens and pick and roll plays would be our bread and butter on offense.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:46 pm
the team is built on the Pho, Sacto, Don Nelson Mavs model. A purely defensive coach will be a repeat of this year, IMO
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:48 pm
the team is built on the Pho, Sacto, Don Nelson Mavs model. A purely defensive coach will be a repeat of this year, IMO
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:51 pm
Carlisle’s resume is not better than Adelman’s, but, it’s still impressive. He helped to set up Portland’s defense for success in the years when Dunleavy coached the team to within 15 minutes of beating a superior Lakers team to go to the finals. He also developed the defensive mindset in Detroit, and really set things up for Larry Brown to finish the job and win a championship. He’s the best defensive coach available; Adelman is one of the best offensive coaches available along with Iavaroni. You can’t really ignore Iavaroni’s success with the Suns over the past 2 years; he may be the most in tune with the modern game out of anybody available.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:53 pm
“I can’t see how anybody wouldn’t have Rick Carlisle as their #1 hope as our new coach. His resume thus far, albeit much much shorter than Adelman’s is more impressive IMO. ”
I don’t see how. Adelman has essentially done everything Carlisle has accomplished to date for three times as long. That said, both guys would be great candidates. Their style of offense is totally different though. Carlisle prefers a very slow paced, deliberate offense…those that criticized Bob Hill for micromanaging and calling plays on every set possession might have some similar issues with Carlisle, whereas Adelman has always been far more uptempo, not that that is better or worse, just different.
Hiring either guy would probably necessitate some changes in the roster for best results as right now the roster is split about 50/50 between guys who play best at a high tempo and guys who are better halfcourt or quarter court players.
April 23rd, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Personally, I don’t think that the Mavs, Kings, Suns model is the recipe for winning rings. But, if that’s the model our team is based on then Iavaroni is a better fit than Adelman.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:03 pm
What happened to old school animosity in the Blazers-Sonics rivalry?? I can’t believe people want Adelman.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:10 pm
I would be happy with him as coach if he’s willing. I like Rick Carlisle a lot, too, probably a little more than Adelman. But, If we plan on continuing to try to win with Allen and RL, Adelman is a great coach to get this offense playing at a high enough level to overcome the defensive shortcomings at the 1, 2 and 3. It’s not necessarily a championship, but that could be real fun to watch.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:15 pm
“Personally, I don’t think that the Mavs, Kings, Suns model is the recipe for winning rings. But, if that’s the model our team is based on then Iavaroni is a better fit than Adelman. ”
I wouldn’t have a problem with either guy coaching, but playing devil’s advocate, Iavaroni is totally unproven while Adelman has 16 years of unquestionable success coaching uptempo teams. You can’t argue with his track record. Making the playoffs 14 out of 16 seasons as a head coach is impressive, and making the second round or better 7 out of 16 seasons is as well.
I think Iavaroni’s best thing going for him now is his lack of track record … he’s in the same area where Musselman and Lawrence Frank were a couple years ago, where he hasn’t screwed up enough yet for people to form an opinion about him. It’s a good place to be.
I think Iavaroni will be a good coach, but at the same time I also think for him to be successful he needs to be working with the right type of GM. Being in his first job, you’d probably need veteran players like Ray to buy into it too for it to work or you could wind up with big problems behind the scenes — you never know how that plays out until it happens, GP and Nate but one example. Whereas Adelman has been around long enough that he knows what he likes and what he wants and might fit better with more varied types of GMs and players. Again, just playing devil’s advocate here.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:24 pm
The key to being a great coach is being surrounded with quality assistants. If Iavaroni could hire a few quality assistants, he’d be fine. The same with Carlisle. If we hired Carlisle and found a way to bring Tim Grgurich back, I think we’d be in good shape.
April 23rd, 2007 at 4:27 pm
“If Iavaroni could hire a few quality assistants, he’d be fine. ”
That’s certainly part of it. Having a strong veteran core helps too. In general I believe you can get away with having an inexperienced coach with a vet team or an old coach with a young team, but rarely can you pair an inexperienced coach with a generally young roster and have it work out. There are exceptions of course, but that’s usually how it shakes out.
April 23rd, 2007 at 5:37 pm
I’m all for the Princeton offense and backdoor cuts until our eyes bleed. I just want to win. Adelman wins. It’s as simple as that.
I would be okay with PJ carleisimo as well; also Carlisle. I am not sold on Silas. He’s had some success, but I just don’t see him being an upgrade over Bob Hill.
I did not know that Adelmans son works for the Sonics…interesting. I do remember in the offseason that Bob Hill had some sort of meeting or consultation or something with Rick Adelman; I remember reading an article about it. Up at some basketball camp somewhere.
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:01 pm
“BTW: The Blazers probably will take a shot a a sign and trade for Lewis.
Though the only chance of making such a sign and trade happen would be by them including either LaFrentz or Randolph and I don’t like either of them. So as long as there isn’t a third team involved, taking on either LaFrentz or Randolph, I would be absolutely against it.”
The following is a sign-and-trade proposal whereby Rashard Lewis is re-signed by the Seattle Supersonics to a maximum-level contract of six-years, $113,625,000 (2007-2008: $15,000,000; 2008-2009: $16,575,000; 2009-2010: $18,150,000; 2010-2011: $19,725,000; 2011-2012: $21,300,000; 2012-2013: $22,875,000) — which, for whatever it’s worth to y’all, is approximated due to the fact that a maximum-level contract for next season will have a starting salary of 30% of the 2007-2008 salary cap with annual raises of 10.5% — during the upcoming off-season and, in turn, immediately dealt to the Portland Trailblazers in a three-team trade.
FROM PORTLAND
PF Zach Randolph ($13,333,333)
FROM SEATTLE
SF Rashard Lewis ($7,500,000 Incoming Value & $15,000,000 Outgoing Value) [Base Year Compensation Player]
PG Earl Watson ($5,800,000)
FROM WASHINGTON
SF Antawn Jamison ($16,360,095)
TO PORTLAND
SF Rashard Lewis ($7,500,000 Incoming Value & $15,000,000 Outgoing Value) [Base Year Compensation Player]
TO SEATTLE
SF Antawn Jamison ($16,360,095)
TO WASHINGTON
PF Zach Randolph ($13,333,333)
PG Earl Watson ($5,800,000)
Although Antawn Jamison would be nothing more than a stop-gap for one season at small forward — which is by far and away his best defensive position — for the Supersonics, he’d nevertheless be the perfect replacement for Rashard Lewis during what appears to be a lame-duck season for the franchise.
Anyway, I’m okay with either Rick Adelman, Rick Carlisle, or Marc Iavaroni as the next head coach of the Supersonics. In any event, though, Adelman, Carlisle, and Iavaroni implement entirely different offensive sets. Yet, regardless of that fact, I’m more interested in Clay Bennett and/or Lenny Wilkens — who, mind y’all, I don’t have much faith in regarding personnel decisions — to hire a coach like one of those three who’ll possibly turn the team into a successful ballclub.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:31 pm
Well I will be the first and I guess only person firmly/completely/unquestionably in the DO NOT HIRE RICK ADLEMAN corner. Some quotes I have read:
I just want to win. Adelman wins. It’s as simple as that.
Adelman has 16 years of unquestionable success coaching uptempo teams. You can’t argue with his track record. Making the playoffs 14 out of 16 seasons as a head coach is impressive, and making the second round or better 7 out of 16 seasons is as well.
Adelman is a great coach to get this offense playing at a high enough level to overcome the defensive shortcomings at the 1, 2 and 3. It’s not necessarily a championship, but that could be real fun to watch.
Personally I will shiet my pants if he comes, we finally have a headcoach with some serious credential.
The list goes on and on and on…so what I want everyone to do is go back and look at the teams he coached in Portland and Phoenix. They are quite possibly some of the most talented teams in the last 20 years.
The Portland team was led by a future HoF and top 50 player named Clyde Drexler. The rest of the starting 5 were all extremely talented players and they even had the like of Danny Ainge and Cliff Robinson (yes THAT Cliff Robinson) coming off the bench. Now that was a talented bunch…
…but not nearly as talented as the bunch of players he had in his hay day in Sacramento. In Chris Webber he had a player that was healthy and averaged 26, 11 and 5…a top Center, a top PG (Bibby or even JWill) a great shooting SF, a defensive minded SG and again a deep bench with the likes of Bobby Jackson…just fearsomly talented team.
What is the biggest know against both those teams?? They never won a championship…and many, many people who follow the NBA seem to be pretty sure that it has to do with Adleman as a coach.
Also, people seem to be conveniently forgetting how well the
“winner” did in his stint with Golden St…which is a much more similar team in talent level. Those teams weren’t very good and he didn’t last very long.
The guy isn’t a good coach. How many good coaches do you know of that has a running joke in Bill Simmons’ column. The guy has even go so far to say that they should have a special DVD called Rick Adleman’s all time greatest playoff chokes.
Now, I know that if people on here were so amazed by his record that there is no way they are going to accept anything i just typed. So here is the ultimate question I ask you:
Two years ago…first round of the playoffs…Seattle vs Sacramento. At ANY point during that series were you like “well I hope the Sonics win but it sure is going to be tough because Rick Adelman is the coach” ????
Honestly, did ONE person say that? I will bet a ton of money that they didnt. In fact, I will bet you that there were people saying how lucky we were to be playing against a team coached by Mr Adelman…of course the archives only go back to 05/2007
This guy is not a good coach…he is the pure definition of a retread…this generation’s Bill Fitch. A guy who was lucky enough to coach some really good teams who were able to win inspite…Yes Inspite Of their coach.
I’m gone for the next couple of days so I won’t see how this plays out (like I don’t already know) but my closing comment is: If we are considering hiring Adelman I would argue we should stick with Lenny….at least Lenny is a local legend…amazingly enough you can use ALL of the same arguments you use for Adelman that you can use for Lenny.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:33 pm
Also, it should be noted that Ivaroni has studied under both D’Antoni (who is the orchestrater of the offense) AND Pat Reilly/Stan Van Gundy (or better known during the tough minded Miami defensive years)….so to say he can’t coach defense is pretty silly
April 24th, 2007 at 12:13 am
Myk, if you are against Adelman, then you would have to be against Carlisle as well (I’m not sure if you are a member of the Carlisle bandwagon). I would be more in favor of Lenny as coach than Carlisle. By the way, I do not necessarily disagree with you about Adelman. While many argue about whether this team should have made a stronger effort to bring Nate back, why aren’t people talking about how Wally let his personal dislike of George Karl impact his decision to not bring George back? Doesn’t that move stand out as one of the poorest choices in Wally’s Sonic tenure?
April 24th, 2007 at 2:40 am
No mention of Dwayne Casey? With all the changes since he left does he still have the sonic mojo? When Nate was hired, the story was (don’t know if I really believe it) that Nate suggested they hire Casey. With the Twolves finish post Casey it makes a pretty good case that he was over performing with the talent he had. McHale looks pretty stupid firing him.
April 24th, 2007 at 8:34 am
A couple of articles this morning. The Sacramento Bee mentions that Rick Adelman is a candidate for the Sonics coaching job(if they decide to let Bob Hill go).
One of the Seattle papers says that Lenny Wilkens could be named president of basketball operations this week. It goes on to say this move might give a clue as to Rick Sunds fate. Apparently Wilkens has said that he didn’t like the drafting of Sene last year and felt they should have taken someone with some proven experience at the college level.
Wasn’t it reported at the time that it was Bob Hill who pushed to get Sene? That would make both him and Sund in trouble if Wilkens indeed wields the power to hire and fire.
April 24th, 2007 at 8:40 am
MYK, we’re all entitled to our opinion on whether or not we like a certain player or coach, but I have to say that the part in your post where you BOLD it doesn’t make any sense as to whether or not Rick Adelman is a bad coach.
I’ll ask the question, “does any fan ever say I think we’ll have a hard time in this series because of the opposing coach?” Phil Jackson, even being the top coach in playoff victories doesn’t make me pause to think that the Lakers have a distinct advantage because of his coaching prowess.
April 24th, 2007 at 8:44 am
It is hard to separate the quality of the coaching from the talent of the players. Adelman was in several good situations and gets the benefit of that but he has a lot of seasons and a strong record so you can at least say he usually didnt screw it up completely.
In Golden State he improved wins in year 1 by 10 over what hall of fame Don Nelson produced the year before. In year 2 they slid back 6 games but a big reason for that probably was changing part of their identity PG Tim Hardaway for a 33 yr old Mark Price.So GS might not have been as bad as it looks on surface.
Portland had its core in place before Adelman arrived and he helped it rebound from one somewhat disapointing saeason and then took it to much higher level. Sacramento his arrival conincided with major roster reshuffle so it is hard to separate out credit for him vs the GM.
Yes he is a rethread, but one of the few that I would consider.
Casey should get full consideration and I have mentioned that I would be ok with him. Iavaroni has the pedigree but hasnt actually lead himself. I still think he is headed to Toronto but he should of course he offered an interview here and see what he says.
To me what the candidates say in the interview is pretty important. What is their plan with this roster? I mean specifics- pace, starting lineup, minutes, who to trade away and target, win expectation, playbook, defensive scheme, assistants they can get, etc. The guy with the best plan among the guys with good resumes probably should win.
April 24th, 2007 at 9:01 am
In re Wilkens and the Sene pick - I am not sure who the Sonics could have picked that would have made any sort of difference. Brewer - not much if any. Carney? No. There was no one really available (Milsap was a 2nd rounder.)
I think Adelman would be a good choice but surprised if he were offered or accepted it.
April 24th, 2007 at 9:44 am
I’m not saying it was the best or worst pick( I was kind of indifferent), just saying that the article said that Wilkens didn’t like the pick.
I know I will go off topic on this just to have Steve post the daily roundup, but here goes back to the draft and my latest random thoughts.
The Sixers have two picks this draft in the first round(#12 and #21 I think it is). Yes, I’m back to the Andre Miller thing. If Seattle could swing a deal to get Miller and the two picks from Philly in exchange for any player(s) the Sixers wanted plus the #5 pick, then the makeup of the team could drastically change(for the better I hope).
Rudy Fernandez just won an award in Europe as the top player under age 22(doesn’t it seem like they’ve been talking about him for years, and he’s only 22?). Tiago Splitter is leading his club team towards a Euro championship.
My point simply is that I would like to see whoever is calling the shots for Seattle come draft day think outside the box and not simply stick with the status quo and keep the pick(although with a #5 pick a pretty darn good player could be had) without exploring all possibilities to use the #5 pick for leverage in other needed areas. In this deep draft both those players might be available with lower picks.
Heck, with Toronto already having TJ Ford, maybe for the right price Seattle could get Jose Calderon and then draft his Spanish backcourt mate in Rudy Fernandez. They worked great together in leading Spain to the world championship. In reading a couple of foreign basketball forums Fernandez is being compared to a better version of Manu Ginobli. Who knows for sure. Those two and the chemistry they have together could end up as good as the Spurs backcourt of Parker and Ginobli and how they work together.
I’m just starting to look beyond the simplicity of sticking with the #5 pick and nothing else.
April 24th, 2007 at 10:58 am
“This guy is not a good coach…he is the pure definition of a retread…this generation’s Bill Fitch. A guy who was lucky enough to coach some really good teams who were able to win inspite…Yes Inspite Of their coach.”
14 playoff appearances … 16 seasons. That isn’t luck, period.
April 24th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
Myk’s backward logic on coaching continues… We’re lucky we have him in this forum, otherwise we might get confused when certain teams win championships in spite of poor coaching while other teams are in the lottery despite having a HoF coach.
April 24th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
I’m more concerned with who is making the personnel decisions than who is coaching. Adelman, Ivaroni, Carlise, Silas. They all can coach. What’s more important IMO is who is making the call on the players. Lenny’s track record isn’t very good.
April 24th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
What track record are referring to? The last guy Lenny drafted was X-Man. Before that, he was the Director of Player Personnel that put together the ‘79 title team.
April 24th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
“hile many argue about whether this team should have made a stronger effort to bring Nate back, why aren’t people talking about how Wally let his personal dislike of George Karl impact his decision to not bring George back? Doesn’t that move stand out as one of the poorest choices in Wally’s Sonic tenure? ”
I can attest that George did a pretty good job of burning his bridges in Seattle before his departure. I’m not sure he wanted to come back and he’d had too many first round burnouts on his watch … Myk talked about Simmons line about all-time greatest playoff chokes … Vol. 2 could be all the first round one and dones under George Karl in his career.
April 24th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
Seafan–
The coach is the person who decides on the system to match the players’ abilities. Silas, Ivaroni, and Carlisle would provide radically different directions for this team in terms of: who we draft, who we keep, who we trade, etc. You need to have a GM and coach who can work well together.
I’m still an advocate for Silas. I feel like our team has more off court character than work ethic.
If there’s any truth to the rumors that Colangelo wants Ivaroni in Toronto, we should add Sam Mitchell to the list of guys to interview.
April 24th, 2007 at 4:02 pm
Vol. 2 could be all the first round one and dones under George Karl in his career.
Yet another ex-Sonic great that constantly gets ripped at this site.
6 seasons, 6 playoffs, first round exits in years 3 & 4 ONLY.
April 24th, 2007 at 4:03 pm
Please, dear God, don’t have someone making the personnel decisions who isn’t on the same page with the coach! Pick a style, pick the coach, then pick the players.
Adelman or Ivaroni with Ray, Rashard, Ridenour and Wilcox sounds like it could work. But is Collison or Swift an up tempo center? I’m not sure. However, only a few savvy vetrans are necessary to give us a shot at the playoffs. Personally, I think this the shortest path and the most market friendly one.
With Carlise or Silas, that group doesn’t work at all. So wholesale changes are necessary.
Good decisions have to be made at all levels, but better decisions are made down the line if there is a clear vision at the top.
April 24th, 2007 at 4:04 pm
As Myk and Barry Ackerley would say, “Where are my rings?”
April 24th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
“Vol. 2 could be all the first round one and dones under George Karl in his career.
Yet another ex-Sonic great that constantly gets ripped at this site.
6 seasons, 6 playoffs, first round exits in years 3 & 4 ONLY. ”
Reading is fundamental Dick. IN HIS CAREER. Not in his Sonic career.
April 24th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
Reading is fundamental Dick. IN HIS CAREER. Not in his Sonic career.
You got me there…
I should have realized that the all the other times he lost in the first round with his teams being the 7th or 8th seed should be counted as flame-outs as well. My bad.
April 24th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
Rick Adelman, Rick Carlisle or a good assistant coach from a good team will be a good choice for the next coach.
April 25th, 2007 at 1:15 am
I can attest that George did a pretty good job of burning his bridges in Seattle before his departure. I’m not sure he wanted to come back and he’d had too many first round burnouts ON HIS WATCH …Vol. 2 could be all the first round one and dones under George Karl in his career
…Reading is fundamental Dick. IN HIS CAREER. Not in his Sonic career.
——————————-
The context shows you referred to his Sonic watch, since you were talking about Karl’s not wanting to return. I can attest that you’re 100% wrong about that, Steve. Karl begged in public all season long for a contract extension, plaintively whining throughout his last season, “Why are they [Wally and Ackerley] destroying the tradition of excellence that we’ve installed here in Seattle?”
April 25th, 2007 at 9:16 am
Karl was also the culprit behind instilling an “us vs. them” mentality in the locker room … no matter if he was right or not you won’t get far badmouthing your boss to fellow employees. Way back when I heard from a source who would definitely know that he was the source on Peter Vescey’s “Kemp is a Drunk” story. So Karl made his own bed, made plenty of mistakes and would be the first guy to acknowledge that he did so.
April 25th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
Steve–
It sounds to me like hearsay to state that George Karl was the source on Vescey’s “Kemp is a Drunk” story. I’d be against making potentially libelous statements on this website.
————————————————————————-
I agree with Myk, you can use the same arguments for hiring Lenny as you can for hiring Adelman. Both have winning records and playoff success for a number of years. But, honestly I don’t think other teams really have either of these guys on their radar. These guys seem like “player coaches” to me, and I would prefer to have a hard-nosed disciplinarian like with connections to the team and the community like Paul Silas. I was pretty annoyed that he didn’t even get an interview last time around when Weiss was hired.
I’m sticking with my coaching list from above, and I still feel that the coach who is hired needs to be hired with a specific GM in mind. Otherwise, we could end up with something that doesn’t really work like a GM who has worked in a half court system working with a coach who always wants to run.
April 27th, 2007 at 9:42 am
Myk’s backward logic on coaching continues… We’re lucky we have him in this forum, otherwise we might get confused when certain teams win championships in spite of poor coaching while other teams are in the lottery despite having a HoF coach.
- This thread probably isn’t read any more but could you please elaborate?
First, I would like you to show me where certain teams have won championships in spite of poor coaching. Actually, a great coach seems to be necessary to win a championship. However, it is possible to have a great team and a bad coach, which prevents them from fullfilling their potential. If you don’t understand this then well…what can I say.
I guess where people seem to miss the point is that there are four distinct parts of a team:
- Talent/Players (40%)
- Coaching (30%)
- Front Office (20%)
- Luck (10%)
It is quite possible to have great players and a great Front Office and have a bad coach which means you don’t win like you should. Also, it is possible to have a bad team with a good coach and front office (although Players/FO seem to go hand in hand) and the team doesn’t win as good as a team coached by a good coach.
It this really that hard of a concept to grasp??
April 27th, 2007 at 10:01 am
It is hard to assign credit shares out of one pot. I tried it before elsewhere and I think I gave all parts of management a total of 40% of credit. GM/coach credit may overlap with GM credit mainly in summer and coach most of that share in season.
Very good coach - for that team- needed for championship. I am not sure I’d call Rudy T or KC Jones great coaches but they were very good for that team.
April 27th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
I just feel like people are not seeing that Rick Adelman probably has coached two of the top 10 most talented teams in last 18 years and has nothing to show for it. His teams never were even in a Championship Winning Game…basically, I feel that most coaches would’ve done just as good as Adelman with either Portland’s great teams or Sacramento’s great teams…He isn’t a horrible coach (no Bob Hill) but he isn’t anything but mediocre at best
April 27th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
It this really that hard of a concept to grasp??
Yes it is, you priggish prick, since I don’t apply your double standard.
Mussleman isn’t necessarily a bad coach…don’t see why one season makes you think that somehow Sacramento was right…that team isn’t very good
Adelman made the playoffs last season with the same roster! Mussleman wasn’t even close.
April 27th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
Adelman made the playoffs last season with the same roster! Mussleman wasn’t even close.
Guess it is all a matter of interpretation. I dont blame Mussleman for Mike Bibby and Brad Miller both getting old so quickly and playing horribly:
Mike Bibby
2005/06 Averages: 21.1ppg, 5.4apg, 43.2% FG, 38.6 3p%
2006/07 Averages: 17.1ppg, 4.7apg. 40.4% FG, 36.0 3p%
or…
Brad Miller:
2005: 79 GS, 15.0ppg, 7.7rpg, 4.7apg, 49.5% FG
2006: 56 GS, 9.0ppg, 6.4rpg, 3.6apg 45.3% FG
(Averages mostly down due to lack of minutes…but he played 20% less this season)
Also…you seem to be forgetting they lost one of their better players in Bonzi Wells. Sacramento got in last year with a hot stretch at the end of the season (8-2)…maybe Mussleman isn’t a good coach…but either is Adelman…maybe I am wrong about Mussleman, but I know I am not wrong about Adelman.
I think as someone said above that about Ivaroni that Mussleman hasn’t done enough bad yet to help cause me to change my opinion on him. However, Adeleman has proven time and time again that he isn’t a good coach and he has been blessed with a supreme amount of talent.
As I said earlier…I am reasonably confident that most people on this site weren’t thinking Adleman was a great coach during the Sonics/Kings series.
April 27th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
It’s funny that I am a piggish prick and yet you are the one calling names…
April 27th, 2007 at 7:16 pm
I’m perfectly willing to have a civil argument with you until the condescension comes into play. I didn’t make that very clear with you last time you used the “grasping the concept” line on me. Hopefully there won’t be any misunderstanding from this point forward.