Muckleshoots Out of the Closet
Posted on Sunday, June 3rd, 2007 at 9:20 am by Brian Robinson
Check out today’s Seattle Times where my buddy Danny Westneat has an article pointing to the Muckleshoot Indians desire to get involved in the arena game.
SUffice to say that in the “inner circle” of things this is very, very old news. The Muckleshoots have been involved since day one to some degree or another. Some rumors have them ready to buy the team from Clay while others have them just putting up the land. Some have them intentionally tanking Clay’s arena proposal to force a sale while others indicate that they were watching very closely hoping that they could become “plan B”.
I don’t know the exact extent of their involvement but let me say that I am pleased that they are now on the record. They are one of several groups that intends to make any departure out of this region extremely difficult. If Clay does file for relocation in November he will likely do so with at least 2 interested parties willing to try to buy the team or contesting that they have potential arena solutions, largely privately financed that he has never fully explored. Will David Stern and the NBA be willing to move a 40 year franchise under those circumstances? That is the real question many people are asking.
No time for a proper article on this. A sunny day and a houseful of other peoples kids is going to force me to keep moving. I didn’t want to let it pass by unrecognized however. Enjoy the sun today and the NBA Finals this week. Look for a breaking SOS story sometime in the next 10 days or so that will add another element to this thing.
June 3rd, 2007 at 9:48 am
Beautiful. Anything that helps this team sticking around is music to my ears.
on the other hand:
“GM UPDATE: It appears the Sonics are going to name a new general manager early next week, and the buzz in Orlando is the favorite is Washington Wizards vice president Tommy Sheppard, whose wife is from Issaquah. Sheppard has spoken with owner Clay Bennett, who is conducting interviews.
Team president Lenny Wilkens said things are “progressing” and he would like to name a GM soon so the GM can take part in the coaching search. ” from PI.
Are we getting impatient with Presti?
Opinions on Sheppard?
June 3rd, 2007 at 10:08 am
Will David Stern and the NBA be willing to move a 40 year franchise under those circumstances? That is the real question many people are asking.
My question is, does the league have any say in forcing Bennett to sell rather than relocate? The track record would seem to say no.
June 3rd, 2007 at 10:08 am
your “buddy” Westneat….good one Brian.
June 3rd, 2007 at 10:21 am
Financing package still involves the State….better be infrastructure only because Chopp is still going to be a hater.
June 3rd, 2007 at 10:39 am
Casper. If you ever have a couple of hours that you just want to kill then start looking at the state website public disclosure of campaign contributions. You would be suprised at how much money the champion of education takes in from tribal gaming comissions.
Westneat is a buddy for the moment. We talked a very long time prior to his article and we’ve shot a couple of e-mails back and forth. I have no problem with his article and was very happy that he followed the site to get his lead. I like the fact that right now he is following the solution side of the issue. Its comendable to look around for answers rather than just beat up on Clay.
June 3rd, 2007 at 10:52 am
Do we still need to “ask permision” to talk to Carlessimo, etc. when the Spurs are done wrecking the Cavs? Or when they’re done with the season, can we talk to anybody? Pardon the ignorance, I don’t know how that works…
June 3rd, 2007 at 11:01 am
Even on the selfimposed outer circle, this isn’t very new news but it is, as Brian said, good to have the Muckleshoot tribe be on record with a local newspaper.
I completely support them in their efforts 100%. It even has it’s own Sports Center headline: They Muckleshoot, they score.
On April 25, 2007, I called it
“Sonics on New Path to Americathon”
http://theseattlesupersonics.blogspot.com/2007/04/sonics-on-new-path-to-americathon.html
I wasn’t about to beat anybody to the story, but I wasn’t abut to be beat to the Americathon analogy.
John Ritter, Harvey Coreman, Meatloaf, that’s B movie comedy.
There is some sweeeeeet irony to have a tribe force somebody from OK onto land to benefit a tribe. I’ll laugh until I cry.
Go Muckleshoot!
June 3rd, 2007 at 11:01 am
While nothing new, I agree that it’s good to get this news in the public. If there are realistic alternatives in the area besides Clay’s one idea, that only helps with possibly saving the team.
Dick, you asked if the league has a say in relocating. Yes the do. Both Stern and the other owners have to approve a move. I don’t know how much of a stand they’d put up however. The past couple moves have gone down easy. It might just be a everybody ok’s everything type “scratch my back” group. But to me, Stern would be the one who would have to seriously consider the situation here before giving his blessing on leaving.
People in this town have ridiculously short memories. Right now because the Seahwks are good, everybody looks back at when they almost left with blinders. People will tell you that the fans stepped up and didn’t allow the move to happen. But that couldn’t be further from the truth. I remember watching the news when the moving vans left. There were like 20 hawk fans there, that’s it. Overall most of the city was apathetic and exactly how they are right now about the Sonics. Why? Because they weren’t very good back then. This town is the king of all frontrunners. Never forget that. The only reason the hawks didn’t move was because Paul Tagliabue, the NFL commissioner didn’t allow it to happen. He wasn’t going to let the league abandon this market. Plus the owner at the time, Ken Behring, was a total idiot. Many people say that the league didn’t want to give the LA market to such a guy. But it wasn’t until the league forced Behring to try to sell to a local buyer, until something happened with the fans. Paul Allen stepped up and said that he’d buy the team if a stadium was built. He then paid out of his own pocket for a special election. Only then did the fans finally do something.
At this stage of the game with the Seahawks, things were the EXACT same. It’s scary almost how similar things are. The only variable will be David Stern’s role. Will he do what Paul Tagliabue did? Or will he say, “See ya Seattle. You had you chance” and let Clay leave easy as that? To me, that’s what this entire thing is going to come down to.
And that means that we as Sonics fans have one goal this season. GO TO AS MANY GAMES AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN! We have to do everything in our power to prove to Stern that it would be monumentally stupid to turn his back on this region and this market. I was upset and angry just like everybody when I hear Clay speak the other day. But I have come to the realization that the only thing we as Sonics fans can do is show our support for the team. And that means going to the games.
June 3rd, 2007 at 11:08 am
At first thought I really didn’t like the idea of driving to Auburn to see the Supes. But now that I think about it. Driving down 167 to Auburn can’t take any longer than driving down 405 to Renton.
June 3rd, 2007 at 11:21 am
Great post Brian. Any positive news is welcome. I agree, it’s looking more and more like Bennett will have a hard time satisfying the ‘good faith effort’ portion of his contract with these other players on the table. Anything that makes it harder for him to bolt is a positive sign.
June 3rd, 2007 at 12:31 pm
“The only reason the hawks didn’t move was because Paul Tagliabue, the NFL commissioner didn’t allow it to happen.”
The fact that they had 10 years left on their Kingdome lease was a large part.
I wonder how the 3 years left on the Key will play out? That’s why it’s important the City of Seattle hold them to their lease.
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:21 pm
EJ:
- Perfectly written…and the lease was a very tiny part. Everything you read is that the NFL owners absolutely without a doubt did not want Ken Behring in the LA market. None of them liked him and to think he would be able to slip into the second largest market in the country and abadnon a market with pretty decent tradition of great fans was enough for the NFL to step in and block the move.
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:36 pm
So…if they do build an Arena down by Emerald Downs…do you guys think that it would be a good thing? Don’t get me wrong, I’d love for the Sonics to stay in the area…however, I just wonder what it would do to attendance…
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:18 pm
As far as that location goes, ask Detroit how The Palace at Auburn Hill effected their attendence.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:32 pm
I just went and looked. Auburn Hills is about 30 miles from Detroit. Auburn is about 27 miles from Seattle. It wouldn’t be as neat as having the team in downtown Seattle, but it wouldn’t really be much different from Renton really.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:38 pm
Emerald Downs is about a 30 minute drive from downtown Seattle, traffic not withstanding. But when you look at it, it can be accessed by both 405 & I-5. And you can also take 167, which isn’t usually a terrible highway traffic wise. Of course it will never be as convenient as the Key, but we don’t got too many options guys. Plus, think of the fan base down south. Hopefully these guys really make a strong bid. Sabey and his people trying something in Tuckwilla won’t hurt either.
June 3rd, 2007 at 2:44 pm
I think Stern has some veto power, but the other owners always approve the move because the relocation fee is divided into 29 and they all share it.
June 3rd, 2007 at 3:11 pm
“I think Stern has some veto power, but the other owners always approve the move because the relocation fee is divided into 29 and they all share it.”
Expansion fees are more than relocation fees and are also divided equally. If part of the settlement guarantees Bennett a team either in KC or OKC and they get a new money generating arena in both Seattle and that city there’s always a secondary money solution.
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:18 pm
Emerald Downs is about a 30 minute drive from downtown Seattle, traffic not withstanding. But when you look at it, it can be accessed by both 405 & I-5. And you can also take 167, which isn’t usually a terrible highway traffic wise. Of course it will never be as convenient as the Key, but we don’t got too many options guys. Plus, think of the fan base down south. Hopefully these guys really make a strong bid. Sabey and his people trying something in Tuckwilla won’t hurt either.
- Im not saying that having the Arena there is either good or bad…however, i would argue that a great deal of the fans are from the North End (Everett, Lynnwood, Bothell) than downtown Seattle. Of course this would make things more convenient for Tacoma fans…but I dont know if that is an equal tradeoff…just something to think about…
And 167 is usually always horrible…I think traffic would be a big issue at that location…but anything to keep the team here.
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:19 pm
Speaking of Stern, he did tell the boys in Olympia that he would accomadate the City of Seattle if they did not want the Sonics!!! That of course was back during the Howard Schultz era of trying to land an arena. He may have said that to force the issue at the time but based on it you would have to think that he would approve a move. It will be interesting to see how it goes now that the Northwest NBA market has suddenly grown strong with the #1 & #2 picks going to Portland and Seattle. I think it will be a fight to the end for Bennett with the City of Seattle and the NBA.
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:19 pm
Expansion fees are more than relocation fees and are also divided equally. If part of the settlement guarantees Bennett a team either in KC or OKC and they get a new money generating arena in both Seattle and that city there’s always a secondary money solution.
- Not that $1,000,000 is much to sniff at…but do you think that the teams really care if they get that little extra money from teh relocation fee?
June 3rd, 2007 at 4:43 pm
If Stern and the people in charge give a crap about their league whatsoever, they have to have in mind the last couple of franchises to move and the results that came. Memphis is already looking to move again and New Orleans was doing poorly before Katrina ever happened. At some point Stern has to realize that stability is worth something and he can’t have his teams moving every couple years. For one, it makes his product look bad. And two, what does that say to all the fans in other cities? How are they supposed to continue supporting their teams during rough patches when every other year a franchise ups and moves?
June 3rd, 2007 at 5:07 pm
Oklahoma City is a little different animal than Memphis and New Orleans. There seems to be more wealth in OK City than in those two cities. Nevertheless, I hope Stern realizes how much of a black eye it would be for the NBA if this team left behind 40 + years of history in the Pacific Northwest to go to an area that has never demostrated a sustained interest in professional sports.
June 3rd, 2007 at 5:11 pm
I don’t care if the attendance at Emerald Downs is 10,000 people a game; the Supes would still be here where they belong. Wasn’t attendance at Key Arena at around 12,000 a game the year after Mac-10 left?
June 3rd, 2007 at 5:37 pm
Excellent. I’m excited at this news. Anything helps, at this point.
June 3rd, 2007 at 6:23 pm
Again, it all comes down to Sonics fans going to games this year! I don’t care if Clay Bennett files for relocation on opening day at midcourt. Our only shot at getting Stern on our side, which I think we all can agree is going to be necessary, is if he sees up as fans supporting our team.
June 3rd, 2007 at 7:32 pm
“And 167 is usually always horrible…I think traffic would be a big issue at that location…but anything to keep the team here.”
51% of the fans come from the east side.
167 is getting an upgrade with or without an arena to support the daytime truck traffic, thanks to the tax passed by voters. Getting off 405 to go south on 167 will change.
June 3rd, 2007 at 8:08 pm
The more potential sites, the better!
Is Renton and Bellevue still in the picture?
June 3rd, 2007 at 8:08 pm
The more potential sites, the better!
Is Renton and Bellevue still in the picture?
June 3rd, 2007 at 8:53 pm
[i]Some rumors have them ready to buy the team from Clay while others have them just putting up the land. Some have them intentionally tanking Clay’s arena proposal to force a sale while others indicate that they were watching very closely hoping that they could become “plan B”.[/i]
Anybody care to expand on these rumors? Are they even capable of purchasing the team and how would they tank Clay’s arena proposal to force a sale?
June 3rd, 2007 at 9:31 pm
i have an idea that would really help, but i doubt anyone would be interested in it at all, simply because it requires donations, and action, which it seems a lot of people are not fans of. why hasnt anyone considered getting donations, and sending underpriveleged kids to the games in mass. many people would be willing to donate to a cause like that. plus it would serve two purposes. first, it would get kids involved in sports. and second, it would improve attendance at games. it would definetly take a lot of money, but there are a lot of us, and a lot of rich neighborhoods everywhere. it may sound stupid at first glance, but with the resources that SOS has, it would not even be that hard to organize. plus the sonics have deals on large groups. it may not even amount to a blip on the radar, but anything helps. a lot of people who have had the patience to read this are probly thinking, why dont i just buy myself a ticket to do my part? well the answer to that question, is thats just one ticket. and no one will donate to send you to a game. but for poor and sick kids, of course they will. the best part is, these people that donate, and in turn help save a franchise, are probably the same people that dont want to spend to keep the sonics here. the only thing it would need is a reputable face as the front of the operation. and the radio would be a good recruitment source to get people trying to donate. if anyone else has an idea to help i would like to hear it, cuz all ive seen so far is people complaining that they are leaving, and not doing anything about it. this is a chance to help kids and save the team.
June 3rd, 2007 at 9:53 pm
i thought of a problem with my charity proposal, where to we get the kids to prove we are charitable lol. well i also thought of a solution, we could just give the tickets away to schools to disperse. and on top of that, if you limit the ticket givaway to 2 per student, it would force parents to buy tickets to. therefore increasng attendance even more. any suggestions? i am going to try to start this up as it is. if anyone would like to get involved in some way and help out, my email is
K-S-4ever@hotmail.com i would appreciate it if the people emailing, were contructive, rather then just trying to call me an idiot…..
June 3rd, 2007 at 10:20 pm
A question for you guys- I’m no lawyer, & I don’t know the contact details of Bennetts “good faith effort” to get an arena built, but if Bennett trys to move the team with plans like this on the table that he hasn’t explored, do we then have legal options to keep the team here?
June 3rd, 2007 at 10:50 pm
No one will call you an idiot Sam.
That was very nice of yours.
If SOS wants to do some’in like that, I”m all for it and contribute as much as we could.
First it shows SOS do care about the community and most importantly, it benefits the children.
The only problem would be transportation?
June 3rd, 2007 at 11:11 pm
i am sure that we can get vans or busses to donate their time, and if not, we can use donated money to rent them. and if we give them to schools, they can either go as a school together, or just go with parents. i really hope that the heads of this site will do everything they can to at least explore this idea and its many benefits.
June 3rd, 2007 at 11:14 pm
If SOS wants to do some’in like that, I”m all for it and contribute as much as we could.
First it shows SOS do care about the community and most importantly, it benefits the children.
- I’d be more than willing to donate to that cause. I still have fond memories (despite not being “underpriviledged”) of getting to attend home Sonics game as a part of the Seattle Hoopfest that (used to?) happen each spring. Saw the Miami heat with Rony Siekley and I believe Matt Geiger one year…
Its too bad no one told me that those guys weren’t supposed to be my role model…maybe I would have grown up to be a good citizen with a good job and what not…oh wait, I did…imagine that, even without idolizing a policeman or a fireman as a kid…d@mn you Shawn Kemp and Ken Griffey Jr.!!!!
Like I said if SOS wants to set something like that up I would be happy to donate…I know some people in the Seattle School District so I could even ask around to see how it could be facilitated on their end.
June 3rd, 2007 at 11:15 pm
Another thing that I would be more than willing to deal with is if there was an increased “advertisement” presence on this site…as long as the money all went to a charity like the one listed above (and to keep the site up and running of course)…
June 3rd, 2007 at 11:29 pm
you should definetly ask around in the school district myk. it would be a real help. im just happy that there has been some good responses so far.
June 4th, 2007 at 2:09 am
http://tinyurl.com/2wdrdb
Presti will probably be named GM this week
June 4th, 2007 at 3:10 am
Petro won’t play in the European championship this summer. He hasn’t been selected.
Mike Pietrus and Gelabale are on a complementary list and not sure to make the team, I must admit that I am really surprised for Gelabale.
June 4th, 2007 at 7:55 am
Last december the Sonics held an event along with the Salvation Army in which you got tickets in exchange for a merchandise donation. SOS&S donated thefunds and shopped for more than $1600 in toys and housewares to donate in exchange for the more than 300 tickes we issued to volunteers who entered the Dec. 8 game on Save Our Sonics night. It seemed at the time like a great way to support a charity while helping the team.
Our donation statement at SOS.org states that all leftover funds will be donated to King County Boys and Girls Club. At this point we are not even close to having funds available but I would love to donate them if possible.
The teams do a tremendous amount for charity. We would like to play a part in reporting these donations more thouroughly but for whatever reason they have not chosen to provide us with a lot of info.
I think one of the things we need to do ASAP is get some people specifically in charge of soliciting donations. We’re going to need a war chest as this thing moves into the next phase. Last night Steve and I met until after 1am with the new strategy team and it is clear we need all the help and advice we can get. Please help us recruit it or contact me if you want to be a part.
June 4th, 2007 at 8:42 am
Please read this column. Bennet is a liar saying that he has tried his best in keeping the Sonics here. Shame on him.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/dannywestneat/2003732654_danny03.html
June 4th, 2007 at 9:59 am
Check out this picture of Durant throwing down at the predraft camp. It’s got me excited.
Scroll down to near the bottom of the page:
http://tinyurl.com/ywjbob
June 4th, 2007 at 10:03 am
#2 - Kevin Durant (no brainer) Portland WILL NOT pass on Oden, no matter how much the press hypes the debate.
# 31 - Zabian Dowdell:
http://www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=472
# 35 - D.J. Strawberry:
http://draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=1076
How can we do better?
2 defensive oriented guards perfect for backup positions.
If we do that Battier for Lewis deal and trade one of the current PG’s for ???? then this team would be set. Completely set.
Well except for a coach. Hire Rick Carlisle!
June 4th, 2007 at 10:07 am
Draftexpress says Durant is skinny as ever but to me, he looks significantly bigger in the arms and legs then the last time I saw him around the end of March. Same thing with Brandon Wright. Maybe the camera adds 10lbs.
June 4th, 2007 at 10:18 am
I wonder how Billy Donovan’s “change of heart” will affect the Sonics coaching search. SVG is the rumored replacement.
SVG is second on my list of coaches for the Sonics.
My list:
1. Rick Carlisle
2. SVG
3. Eric Musselman
4. P.J. Carlesimo
5. Bob Hill (If all the other guys are gone let’s just bring him back.)
999. Dwayne Casey
June 4th, 2007 at 10:20 am
Chad Ford:
By the way, after talking to Durant on Thursday, I think it’s safe to say that if Portland passes on him, he’ll try to drop 50 on the Blazers in their first meeting.
June 4th, 2007 at 10:22 am
5. Bob Hill (If all the other guys are gone let’s just bring him back.)
- Bring back Coach Hill!! If there is one thing this team needs is having Hill back so he can figure out an offense that will take all of the things that Durant is good at and ensure that he has no opportunity to even think about them…just look at the wonder he did with putting Wilcox in the high post 75% of the season.
June 4th, 2007 at 10:22 am
Mark it on your calenders, Chad Ford said something sensible.
June 4th, 2007 at 10:23 am
That’s an awesome dig Myk.
50 on opening night would be a great sight to see. and if Lewis is guarding him, it might not be that far out of hte line of possibility.
June 4th, 2007 at 10:25 am
I still don’t see who could coach this roster.
Allen/Durant/Lewis could be fantastic but also a complete failure
June 4th, 2007 at 10:35 am
Bring back Bob Hill?! I realize it’s your 5th option, but that’s just insane! And no thanks to Stan Van Gundy. He won with Shaq and Wade. Big whoop.
June 4th, 2007 at 10:37 am
“I still don’t see who could coach this roster.
Allen/Durant/Lewis could be fantastic but also a complete failure ”
If they keep all 3, carlisle would be a great choice stylistically. A slow paced, methodical offense is the only way a Ray/Lew core will ever win consistently because of its defensive shortcomings.
June 4th, 2007 at 10:38 am
“Mike Pietrus and Gelabale are on a complementary list and not sure to make the team, I must admit that I am really surprised for Gelabale.”
I can’t believe either players were left off.
June 4th, 2007 at 10:41 am
“I can’t believe either players were left off.”
I can understand for Pietrus as he really sucked in the world Champ last year and has never been good with the French National team.
But Gelabale was the team second best player. Maybe the Sonics want him to stay in the US. But if not the coach is just stupid (and I think he is because his list sucks)
June 4th, 2007 at 10:45 am
Petro refused to play because he would have been the third center and he wants to be number one or two.
June 4th, 2007 at 10:49 am
I don’t want to to bring back Hill either. I should have made the list 4 coaches long. However, I REALLY don’t want to bring back Casey. I guess those two would be 1A and 1B on my list of bad moves.
June 4th, 2007 at 10:58 am
Petro refused to play because he would have been the third center and he wants to be number one or two.
Gotta love the competitive fire in that guy.
June 4th, 2007 at 11:06 am
Interesting blog from the Houston Chronicle re: Shard to Houston
The guy makes some good points, especially when it comes to salary. Wilcox for Battier works fiscally. But I think that kills our front line.
http://blogs.chron.com/nba/2007/06/rumor_season_already_underway.html
June 4th, 2007 at 11:22 am
brian let me know what i can do because even if they do leave, i want to know that i did everything that i could to help keep them here.
June 4th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
Atleast we’ll be getting a new gm this week. Presti and Sheppard are the front runners. What are the pros and cons of each? The only positive thing I’ve read on Presti is that he has advanced in positions every year and he was a major factor in the decision to draft Tony Parker. Who would you guys rather have??
June 4th, 2007 at 1:10 pm
How will suite sales be in Muckleshoot Square Gardens?
BTW, Emerald Downs is a 30 minute drive from RENTON at most times of the day.
June 4th, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Petro refused to play because he would have been the third center and he wants to be number one or two.
Gotta love the competitive fire in that guy.
- Sounds like he was listening to his verteran leader Rashard…exact same way he handled the US Olympic team last year.
My bet is that Rashard just didn’t want to be apart of that weird USA basketball commerical where LeBron is reading each word and then speaking, Chris Bosh looks like a cracked out crazy man with skin that is stretched so tight to his face it will tear at any minute and Brad Miller looks like “hey look at me Im the token white stiff center!!”
June 4th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
How will suite sales be in Muckleshoot Square Gardens?
BTW, Emerald Downs is a 30 minute drive from RENTON at most times of the day.
- This is sort of my point. Again, I must restate that I will do anything to keep the team here. However, if the Sonics start playing in Auburn I can tell you that I will go to way less games each year because the idea of a 90 minute drive to the Arena from Bothell/Mill Creek area just doesn’t cut it for me. It’s the main reason I don’t go to Emeral Downs either…
Again…if that is where they need to play to stay I am happy…but I do think it will SIGNIFICANTLY alter the fan base…
June 4th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
“Atleast we’ll be getting a new gm this week. Presti and Sheppard are the front runners. What are the pros and cons of each? The only positive thing I’ve read on Presti is that he has advanced in positions every year and he was a major factor in the decision to draft Tony Parker. Who would you guys rather have?? ”
Alvin, check “Lewis or Wilcox for Battier” thread for commentary.
June 4th, 2007 at 1:18 pm
yeah, Myk, it is pretty far down there.
presumably, this would be a deal where the tribe would build the facility and the Sonics/Storm would be tenants, sharing a portion of the gate receipts with the tribe (owner). In the Renton deal, and in most arena/stadium deals around the country, the major league team is the “master tenant” and keeps all the revenue from the other events. So, in this case, Bennett stands to make far less money.
So, does he have a choice? Can he say, “that’s nice, but I stand to make way more in KC/OKC?” Sure, the Board of Gov’s has to approve a move, but remember, this a board made up of owners who like to have flexibility themselves.
June 4th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
“Again…if that is where they need to play to stay I am happy…but I do think it will SIGNIFICANTLY alter the fan base… ”
No doubt it would if they had to move to Auburn. Putting the arena itself on tribal land may not be the way to go, but if the tribe just purchases the franchise most land options could still be on the table.
June 4th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
it would be interesting to see if Renton or Bellevue would support a Muckleshoot-owned team and a Muckleshoot-financed arena, that would very likely also have to include slot machines. might be a tough pill to swallow.
June 4th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
“So, does he have a choice? Can he say, “that’s nice, but I stand to make way more in KC/OKC?” Sure, the Board of Gov’s has to approve a move, but remember, this a board made up of owners who like to have flexibility themselves. ”
The newer the facility the better chance the team stays. No way would Bennett make more $$$ in OKC with its older facility than he would in a new one. I don’t really take the KC talk that seriously, its classic leverage. KC is a first & foremost a football town during the fall/winter. Even with a star draft pick leading the team I just don’t see the NBA being successful there in the long term. Between the NFL and Jayhawks basketball I don’t see much left over for the NBA.
June 4th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
I would assume that in a tenant situation, the tribe could charge the Sonics basically no rent (or a token amount), the Sonics keep all their gate receipts, but the tribe keeps the money earned from concerts and other events in the arena. That’s not the complete sweetheart deal Bennett wants (where he keeps the cash for all events in the arena), but it might be enough to force him to stay here. There’s probably also some negotiating space there–maybe they let him get a chunk of other events earnings, or something.
The tribe buying the team is more interesting, certainly, but it’d also be really surprising. With the cost of building a new arena with their own money, they’d be in for as much as 3/4 of a billion dollars, which seems a bit much.
June 4th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
If Bennett wants all of the revenue from all of the events then he should pay for 100% of the building costs.
Is this not just tooooo logical?
If I walked in and told my landlord that because I am his biggest tenant I should get all of the rental income - well you can imagine the laughter.
June 4th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
If an entertainment district can be created by the tribe adjacent to the arena, or as Fain mentioned this morning (and I previously had thought), free shuttles and gaming packages at the casino a few miles away, the tribe stands to reap big enough profits that the Sonics will be able to gain some sort of master tenant status. They don’t need to have 100% master because arenas around the country have tenants sharing…(Staples Center: Lakers / Clippers / NHL Kings, BankNorth Garden: Celtics / Bruins, MSG: Knicks / Rangers, AA Center: Mavs / Stars, and the list goes on).
June 4th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
If I walked in and told my landlord that because I am his biggest tenant I should get all of the rental income - well you can imagine the laughter.
- If the landlord owned all the land around the building and if you could prove that you’d bring a signficantly higher amount of traffic to his area, which means they would be able to make more money in their other businesses I don’t think it would be such a bad deal.
June 4th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
If the arena is sucking up what? about $400.00 for a family of 4 on average per night? Then what kind of traffic would be going around to the other businesses that the Tribe has? If you just dropped $400.00 on a game do you think you’d head over to a casino and lose more $$$$$$? Or lose more on the ponies? I dont think there are that many high rollers that can afford to go to Auburn and throw away a grand or so in a night, is there? Maybe I am wrong?
June 4th, 2007 at 2:43 pm
“it would be interesting to see if Renton or Bellevue would support a Muckleshoot-owned team and a Muckleshoot-financed arena, that would very likely also have to include slot machines. might be a tough pill to swallow. ”
There is no way slot machines will ever be allowed in a arena in the state of Washington. It took years of legislation to allow them in Indian Casinos.
June 4th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
“There is no way slot machines will ever be allowed in a arena in the state of Washington. It took years of legislation to allow them in Indian Casinos.”
yup.
but would they be able to keep them out of the ‘Muckleshoot Hotel and Casino’. Convinently located right next door on the opposite side of the HUGE parking garage they’d build;)
June 4th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
Maybe the Tribe could fit a NASCAR track close by too.
June 4th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
Would it be cool to have the arena on the infield of the track?
June 4th, 2007 at 2:50 pm
“The tribe buying the team is more interesting, certainly, but it’d also be really surprising. With the cost of building a new arena with their own money, they’d be in for as much as 3/4 of a billion dollars, which seems a bit much.”
It does seem like a lot. But casinos, especially Muckleshoot, make a lot more money than we think. I saw that in 1999 the payroll alone for the casino was $31 million dollars. 8 years later the Casino alone is probably 3-4x as big, and now they have an ampitheatre, and Emerald Downs. Financially they are doing just fine. I don’t know how much they pull in a year……but it wouldn’t surprise me that 3/4 of a billion is something they could write a check for.
June 4th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
“but would they be able to keep them out of the ‘Muckleshoot Hotel and Casino’. Convinently located right next door on the opposite side of the HUGE parking garage they’d build;) ”
Yes, they would be kept out, unless that land is marked as part of the Reservation, which I believe it is not, regardless of who owns it.
June 4th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
“but would they be able to keep them out of the ‘Muckleshoot Hotel and Casino’. Convinently located right next door on the opposite side of the HUGE parking garage they’d build;)”
Exactly. Or even better……..they could make you walk through the casino to access the arena or have some structure that legally seperates the building……but actually doesn’t. I guess the point is that this won’t be Vegas. They have slots pretty much everywhere there……but even the MGM Grand arena is normal in most respects.
June 4th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
If you just dropped $400.00 on a game do you think you’d head over to a casino and lose more $$$$$$? Or lose more on the ponies? I dont think there are that many high rollers that can afford to go to Auburn and throw away a grand or so in a night, is there? Maybe I am wrong?
- Yes…at least that’s what the folks who owned the Landing and the Sabey sure hopes if they ever build the Arena in their desired locations.
June 4th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
Also, don’t discount the HUGE amounts of money the casino would make from the players coming in 41 nights a year…man if the tribe did things right (VIP rooms, VIP playing areas) they would probably make enough money off the visiting players to fund a large chunk of the Arena
June 4th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
Again…let me say how sad it is that so many “simple” people like us can get together and come up with tons of ways to make money to build the Arena…and yet the owner of the team and our city government can’t even come up with one…
June 4th, 2007 at 3:21 pm
“If you just dropped $400.00 on a game do you think you’d head over to a casino and lose more $$$$$$? Or lose more on the ponies? I dont think there are that many high rollers that can afford to go to Auburn and throw away a grand or so in a night, is there? Maybe I am wrong?”
There is a lot of money in this area. I recently read that there are something like 70,000 millionaires in King County alone. So as much as $400 might seem to me…….apparently that is pocket change to a lot of people around here. Its not an issue of having the money……its whether or not you like to put it in play.
Go to Muckleshoot on a Friday or Sat night. You’ll notice that its packed with people waiting to play.
June 4th, 2007 at 3:24 pm
“If you just dropped $400.00 on a game do you think you’d head over to a casino and lose more $$$$$$? Or lose more on the ponies? I dont think there are that many high rollers that can afford to go to Auburn and throw away a grand or so in a night, is there? Maybe I am wrong? ”
There’s plenty of people who drop $400 a night playing card games or slots up & down Aurora. I’m sure if they offer comped rides and free game tickets it wouldnt be too hard to draw them too.
Totally agree with Scott & Menace re the hotel & casino concept.
June 4th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
“”"I recently read that there are something like 70,000 millionaires in King County alone”"”
WOW!
The new arena could be filled up with just millionaires. That is mind boggling.
If each of those 70,000 millionaires contributed $5000.00 - there is the 350 million to build the arena.
June 4th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
That gives me an idea.
Can an arena be a publicly held thing? Not with tax dollars, but more like an investment of choice for individuals. Like a mutual Fund? Or a stock? Where lots of people can buy and sell shares?
June 4th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
There’s plenty of people who drop $400 a night playing card games or slots up & down Aurora. I’m sure if they offer comped rides and free game tickets it wouldnt be too hard to draw them too.
Totally agree with Scott & Menace re the hotel & casino concept.
- Don’t forget that these millionaires are actually probably spending more than even $400 just to watch the game. I know my dad was able to get some courtside tickets to the Jazz/Warriors Game 5 playoff game and face value of those tickets were $650…in Utah…
Totally agree with Scott & Menace re the hotel & casino concept.
- Do you think it would be possible (legal?) to build another casino in the location that Sabey is planning for development? That way you could get both of these people who seem to want to build this Arena working for their interests. Not sure what exactly the Casino rules are in Seattle considering I see them all up Hwy 99…
June 4th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
testing
June 4th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
The Tacoma News Tribune is reporting that the Sonics may be close to signing the Spurs’ Presti as new GM.
This is a huge coupe if true. Presti ushers in a new breed of young, highly educated NBA general managers. Some have compared him to baseball’s Theo Epstein in that he emphasizes numbers, percentages etc. Based on the reading I’ve done, it ooks as though he had much to do with the development of a type of computerized scouting database that is now used by many NBA teams. I have faith that, if the Sonics nabe him, Presti will efficiently and prgmatically build the team around Kevin Durant—-much the way he and his colleagues built the Spurs around Duncan. No more Rick Sund nonsense.
In other news, Jason Quick (Oregonian) is reporting Oden/Durant camp measurements. Notables: Durant is 6′10.5 w/shoes, has a 7′4.75 wingspan, a 9′2 standing verticle and weighs 215 pounds. More notably is that Kevin was the only draftee present who couldn’t bench the base 185 pounds at least once. While Quick plays this as a slight on Durant (and an opinion for the Blazers to draft Oden), I think it merely shows that Durant is a skinny 18 year old kid who is still growing into his body. Further, it suggests he is NOT ready to come in and play minutes at the 4 (at least not yet); and trading Rashard might ultimately be in Kevin’s interest, as he is not physcially ready to play the 4.
June 4th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
“That gives me an idea.
Can an arena be a publicly held thing? Not with tax dollars, but more like an investment of choice for individuals. Like a mutual Fund? Or a stock? Where lots of people can buy and sell shares?”
I think you call that a REIT (real estate investmet trust). There are those more knowledgeable then me who could explain such further.
I believe Bennett’s explained his reluctance for private financing is that venture capitalists expect a reasonable return on their investment. He’d be limited on what he could collect in the way of arena revenue.
June 4th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
test
June 4th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
If Bennett just took the door for Sonic games.
If the average price of a ticket was $60.00
and the arena sold out all 41 games. (70,000 tickets)
Then Bennett would take in $172,200,000.00 in a season.
Shouldnt that be enough to operate?
172 million.
PER YEAR.
Obviously they wont sell out every game.
But there seems to be enough room to wiggle a bit.
June 4th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
“In other news, Jason Quick (Oregonian) is reporting Oden/Durant camp measurements. Notables: Durant is 6′10.5 w/shoes, has a 7′4.75 wingspan, a 9′2 standing verticle and weighs 215 pounds. More notably is that Kevin was the only draftee present who couldn’t bench the base 185 pounds at least once. While Quick plays this as a slight on Durant (and an opinion for the Blazers to draft Oden), I think it merely shows that Durant is a skinny 18 year old kid who is still growing into his body. Further, it suggests he is NOT ready to come in and play minutes at the 4 (at least not yet); and trading Rashard might ultimately be in Kevin’s interest, as he is not physcially ready to play the 4.”
I continue to hold out hope that Kevin Pritchard will select Kevin Durant with the first pick in the 2007 NBA Draft, so that the Seattle Supersonics will thereby have the luxury of drafting Greg Oden.
June 4th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
“the arena sold out all 41 games. (70,000 tickets)”
What NBA arena seats 70,000 people? I think of 20,000 seats as a lot for an NBA arena.
June 4th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
Forbes estimated Sonics gate receipts at $24 million in 05-06. http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/32/biz_06nba_Seattle-SuperSonics_329710.html
$82 mil total revenues
June 4th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
“and the arena sold out all 41 games. (70,000 tickets)”
The devil is in the details. Where in the heck did you come up with 70,000 tickets for the size of the arena????
Key Arena’s capacity is 17,072
Here’s some other NBA capacity figures for reference:
LA Lakers: 18,997
Chicago: 21,711
Detroit: 22,076
New York: 19,763
June 4th, 2007 at 5:00 pm
I thought Bennett was pushing for a 70,000 seat arena?
June 4th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
Well that changes things a lot.
Then at average of $60.00 a seat and 20,000 seats its only about $50 million per year.
doesn’t even cover the players salaries…..
June 4th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
I think he jumped on the 70k millionaires in King County number.
June 4th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
Forbes says they averaged $40 ticket. Revenue estimate would suggest 15,000 tickets sold at face value or some combo of ticket offers and ticket giveaways to bring attendance up to the announced average of near 17,000.
New arena might add 2-3,000 seats but that will only generate about $4 million a year more just beacuase or that. Of course the concourse sales and suites (and maybe club seat effort again?) and maybe parking could add other revenues. But that depends on star power, winning, excitement as much or more than the arena itself.
June 4th, 2007 at 5:08 pm
“More notably is that Kevin was the only draftee present who couldn’t bench the base 185 pounds at least once.”
An NBA weight program will cure all. There are more than a few players in the league who couldn’t bench that upon entering the L. One of them is currently our starting PG.
June 4th, 2007 at 5:12 pm
I’m pretty sure he said something about 19 or 20k seats last time he was in Olympia. Nothing much bigger than the Key but he wants more luxury boxes too I believe.
A 70k seat arena would be like the Supes playing on Qwest field and us watching them, brutal. Plus at 70k seating, theres no way they sale out even 70% of those games, thats a lot of folks for multiple games per week.
The saddest thing about this is he wants King County to pay for some super duper futuristic never been built before arena. Cant they just build an arena?
June 4th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
I’mactually somewhat surprised to hear that he couldnt bench 185 once, not disappointed, but surprised. Anyhow, in his role strength can be highly overrated anyhow.
June 4th, 2007 at 5:21 pm
All the teams in the top half of revenues made the Finals in last decade with the exception of the Kings (who almost made it) and the Celtics who made it all the time in the past and the fans refused to believe the temporary bad luck wouldnt break and they’d be back.
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/32/biz_06nba_NBA-Team-Valuations_Revenue.html
You could make the case get to the Finals and then you are golden but… the Sonics did that and the revenues didnt follow the way they did in many of the larger markets. New Jersey’s glory days werent too long ago and they just had a shot but their revenue is lower then I’d expect. Orlando got to Fiunals but lost Shaq and probably a ton of revenue over the years.
June 4th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
The Karl-Walker and Payton-Schultz conflicts were probably somewhat buzzkills but underlying market factors and the arena need to get their due attention. Seattle may be 15th largest market itself but the surrounding neighborhood (say 300 mile radius) is lightly populated in comparison to many other markets. Sharing the NW with Portland was tough enough, the NBA decision to expand into Vancouver might have had some impact.
June 4th, 2007 at 5:32 pm
I thought I heard proposed new arena would have fewer but fancier and more expensive suites but at this point it is just numbers on a page and until they pull that page back out and go over the business plan in detail with willing public officials it doesnt matter much. Suite supply is one thing suite sales are another.
June 4th, 2007 at 5:34 pm
Someone correct me, but I believe Nick Collison couldn’t even bench 185.
June 4th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
NBA strength is mainly leg strength so benchpress is a poor measuring stick.
June 4th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
I think Nick did it, but it was only like once or twice at the most. Again, goes to show how weigthlifting strenght is just overrated, Nick does just fine way down low…
June 4th, 2007 at 5:49 pm
Seattle may be 15th largest market itself but the surrounding neighborhood (say 300 mile radius) is lightly populated in comparison to many other markets.
This is a factor that few are willing to recognize when trying to put Seattle up on the “market size” pedestal.
June 4th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
http://www.teammarketing.com/fci.cfm?page=fci_nba_05-06.cfm
This has Seattle as third lowest average ticket price, almost a third less than league average. The $32 average price is probably based of attendance as announced.
I could see ticket tax to pay for arena being a feature of arena deal and higher prices to owners might be coming down the pike too, if success allows it. Again like any business you have to make people want to buy and buy at your price. Bennett (and his staff) gets his chance to prove business skills in this field.
June 4th, 2007 at 6:11 pm
I posted an article on my blog regarding Tacoma. I am suprised that Tacoma and the Dome are not in the mix to be the new home of the Sonics.
http://www.supersonics-fan.blogspot.com
June 4th, 2007 at 6:13 pm
I keep wondering why Seattle can’t capitalize more on the Vancouver market with the Grizz having moved. Play 30 games in Seattle and 12 games in Vancouver. With fewer games, demand would be greater and you should have more sellouts. Beyond that, you would have two fan bases, two TV contracts, etc. etc. (believe me, you give Vancouver 12 games and they will feel like the Sonics are also their team and will want to watch them on TV).
I actually think the NBA ought to do this more to get more fans/interest/demand. Let New Orleans continue to play 12 games per year in OKC. Let Orlando play 12 games in Tampa. What’s the nearest team to KC? To St Louis? To Cinci?
June 4th, 2007 at 6:14 pm
I realized my math is off as soon as I hit submit. I guess it would be 30/11 or 29/12 game splits.
June 4th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
Market size does seem to correlate to ticket price pretty well. All the smaller half market teams are average or below average on ticket prices. Portland charges 30% more.
June 4th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
“Someone correct me, but I believe Nick Collison couldn’t even bench 185. ”
No, that’s Ridnour.
June 4th, 2007 at 6:28 pm
OKC has some oil wealthy and some trickle down. All three Texas markets get $45+ average ticket but smallest market championship ladened San Antonio at $45. Memphis got $35. Data just reported suggests OKC average about $40 per ticket this season. So, how you interpret the information may vary, but Seattle and OKC about equal strictly on average ticket price generated- in arenas as configured today.
June 4th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
Kivman I do think split markets is an idea that might need a serious look. I dont know if the NBA has recently. An owner or two tried it in the distant past but they got shut off.
June 4th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
The Sonics had a below average average ticket price before 91-92 but it started to pick up in the run up to the Final appearance. After that, average ticket price almost doubled and was top 5 in league, hitting a high of $65 and was in $60s for several years. It lasted until 2001-2 a 4th year of ho-hum compared to 90s, a first round defeat and the Baker saga. The Schultz era brought the Payton trade, KJR was no longer an inside the company publicity machine but merely a radio carrier, only 1 year in last 5 in playoffs, the loss of Mr Sonic and now radio on a conservative station.
Sonics could do ok in current arena if they got Portland average price. With return to playoffs that doesnt seem that hard to reach. Return to great play and fatter ticket prices will be an option. Seattle proved it would pay more. Maybe Sonics went too high after finals and turned too many folks off. Certainly it was a lot about the decline in the on the court product. But there maybe be a balance point on price. Good product, good management and marketing you might be able to make this market work with current arena but a better lease.
June 4th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
The same people that criticized LeBron James for receiving an unwarranted amount of hype coming out of high school seem to be the same people heaping praise upon Greg Oden despite his less-than dominant freshman season (albeit, there were extenuating circumstances such as a wrist injury that seemed to last the entire season; doesn’t it have to heal at some point?). Kevin Durant met and exceeded all expectations during his freshman campaign and yet, he is being treated by many analysts as an inferior player to Oden. Isn’t determining whether someone will be a dominant NBA defensive player from watching his performance in college just as difficult as determining whether someone will be an offensive force at the professional level? Though my head says that I would draft Oden, my heart says Durant will be the guy that helps the Sonics and Ray win the championship in 2011.
June 4th, 2007 at 7:15 pm
Kevin Durant’s basketball IQ measurements are off the chart. So are his ‘killer instinct’ and ‘heart’ measurements. Jason Quick is going overboard with his slighting of Durant’s abilities. Kevin will remember it too, everytime we play the Blazers.
June 4th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
The revenue did follow Sonics Finals appearance- I was wrong when I earlier said they didnt- but, after this further research, I see they wore off due to decline in play and perhaps overpricing in the afterglow. The stock market crash may have hit this market particularly hard due to the information industry concentration.
June 4th, 2007 at 7:20 pm
Is the “Texas Tornado” really the best we can do for KD? At least that’s better than Locke’s catchphrase for every tough shot that Ray hits => “Ray Allen. Ray Allen (repeating his name slower than the first time)”
June 4th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
My nickname for Kevin is ‘Weapon X.’
June 4th, 2007 at 7:55 pm
Texas Tornado sucks, but I’m no better since I cant think of one. Texas Tornado sounds like a boxer or fake pro-wrestler.
Dusty “the texas tornado” Rhodes
June 4th, 2007 at 7:59 pm
No nicknames that have anything to do with the south, por favor.
June 4th, 2007 at 8:01 pm
WEAPON X
Yes, kind of cartoony, but Durant is the ultimate weapon.
June 4th, 2007 at 8:07 pm
Why the lack of love for the South? I agree that the nickname should not have to do with the South, considering that Durant spent one year in Austin and grew up in Chevy Chase, Maryland, which is not a very Southern area anymore.
June 4th, 2007 at 8:14 pm
Weapon X isnt too bad, but I’m not sure that any nickname with the word ‘weapon’ would be too embrased at this time, just how society is right now. It’s also a bit elsusive I suppose, too impersonable maybe? WHo knows, I’m not too good at the monikar games..
Keep ‘em coming………..
June 4th, 2007 at 8:42 pm
Leave the nicknames to Calabro. I think he was the one who came up with The Reign Man & The Glove.
June 4th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
Yeah, he’s a natual. I think he coined the Reign Man, but I believe it was Garys cousin that came up with The Glove…
June 4th, 2007 at 9:00 pm
I prefer to just leave him without a nickname as long as people introduce him in three years as ‘at 6′10″ from the University of Texas, your 2010 starting all star forward from YOUUUUUURRRRRR SEATTTTTTTTTTLLLLLLLLEEEEEEE SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUPEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRSONICS, #35 KEEEEEEVVVVVVINNNNNN DUUUUUUUUUUUUURANT’ See who needs a nickname;)
June 4th, 2007 at 9:08 pm
Calabro said he will wait til the action prompts a name or the player or his teammates give him a nickname but on kjr recently he said he was done with Weezy for Wilcox, saying you got to do better than that.
(For what it is worth, on the the ticket price thing, one more note: Key has fewer nosebleed tickets because it is a smaller arena so the average price isnt as strong underneath compared to bigger arenas with a larger portion of upperbowl seats.)
June 4th, 2007 at 9:11 pm
Scott, hopefully that introduction will occur in the Western Conference Finals or NBA Finals in a clinching game for the Sonics.
June 4th, 2007 at 9:28 pm
Ackerley recognized the cash some folks around here had in the dot.com boom and milked the ticket prices those last few years. It probably created a rosy impression of franchise value to Schultz. Overly so. The tie on team performance and ticket prices isnt automatic or the same in every city/situation but Schultz bought high and was disappointed and that was a bad business decision- to a degree. The sale went well for him.
June 4th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
187 Kevin, that should be nickname because he’s gonna be murderin’ sf’s.
June 4th, 2007 at 10:33 pm
Awesome idea that the Muckleshoot has desire to get in on the arena deal. It would keep the Sonics in Seattle. They got my support!! Go Sonics!!
June 4th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
Well, Bryce, it’s actually “The Texas Tornado” Kerry Von Erich and “The American Dream” Dusty Rhodes. I doubt that any of y’all are too well-versed about the world of professional wrestling, however.
June 4th, 2007 at 10:48 pm
Professional wrestling sucks - MMA is where it’s at.
June 4th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
Professional wrestling is lame - MMA is where it’s at.
June 4th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
Bah, I knew that actually. Kerry Von Erich, now that’s a name I havent heard in a long time.
June 4th, 2007 at 10:49 pm
lol
June 4th, 2007 at 10:53 pm
Ah MMA eh? Sticking with the TX nicknames, what about Heath “Texas Crazy Horse” Herring?
Heck why dont we just call Kevin “Rampage” and give him a chain to wear…:)
June 4th, 2007 at 11:16 pm
Or nicknames and catchphrases:
the pick n roll in a certain PGs hands could be
“the Luke Rid-Rattle n Roll”
right way Nick Collison could be “Mr. Nick Collisonic”
Weezy, when inspired, could be “WillPower” or for the gamers “the power of Wii” or a dunk call could be “Wil “cox”, wil packs!
stealng from KC’s classic Kemp call a urant drive could be followed by something like “KDu, nobody to the spin cycle smash the way you do!” (KDu isnt far from Cato for his sidekick days)
June 4th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
I was trying to capitalize that D to make Durant. oh well
June 5th, 2007 at 12:01 am
Article in the PI today about the Muckleshoot stuff.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/318498_tribe05.html
I like this quote from Bob Santos:
“My job is to bring people together,” Santos said. “I don’t want to lose another franchise.”
June 5th, 2007 at 12:51 am
I like that article too, EJ. Also agree, great quote from Santos. Makes me very optimistic =)
June 5th, 2007 at 2:20 am
Gelabale is frustrated and said he probably won’t come to play for France this summer even if the coach changes his mind.
He will play in the summer league
June 5th, 2007 at 5:23 am
This is my favorite quote from the PI article:
“There has been no formal proposal, and Bennett has reportedly voiced concern about the distance fans would have to drive from Seattle if the team relocated from KeyArena to a site adjacent to Emerald Downs racetrack, which sits on property owned by the Muckleshoots.
The site is 24 miles from downtown Seattle.
“It’s a heckuva lot closer than Oklahoma City,” Santos said Monday when reached at home.”
June 5th, 2007 at 7:46 am
I don’t know what to read into it but Kevin Durant was the only player at the NBA measurement camp that couldn’t bench press the required 185 pounds even once. Someone please tell me that he wasn’t trying and did this on purpose.
June 5th, 2007 at 7:58 am
“Bennett has reportedly voiced concern about the distance fans would have to drive from Seattle if the team relocated from KeyArena to a site adjacent to Emerald Downs racetrack, which sits on property owned by the Muckleshoots.”
That is such a copout by Bennett. I realize that he’s not from here, but how far away from the proposed Renton site is the Auburn piece of land? Not that far.
24 miles from DT Seattle? Big whoop. How far away is the Palace in Auburn Hills from Detroit?
June 5th, 2007 at 8:44 am
Yeah, Kevin Durant sounds frail. I can bench 185 about 20 times, and I’m not in the greatest shape. But my body fat is probably about 20 percent, so I’ll shut up.
Anyway, someone that can’t bench 185 might be injury-prone early on in his career until he gets some shape. He is only 19, I believe. I guess Oden measured like a beast. 7 percent body fat? Geez…
June 5th, 2007 at 8:56 am
“Yeah, Kevin Durant sounds frail. I can bench 185 about 20 times, and I’m not in the greatest shape.”
I’d also bet that you don’t have arms that are the length his are either .
Two things work against KD when it comes to the bench press, length of arms and slight chest. I knew a kid in high school who was 5′4″ and weighed 102 lbs and could bench 225 as his rep weight. The fact that he only had to lift the bar 8 inches had a lot to do with it.
I have problems with bench and honestly don’t know that I could do 185 even once. I’m just under 5′10″ but have a wingspan about 6′3 or so and it plays havoc with certain exercises.
June 5th, 2007 at 9:56 am
“Yeah, Kevin Durant sounds frail. I can bench 185 about 20 times, and I’m not in the greatest shape.”
I’d also bet that you don’t have arms that are the length his are either .”
It was a joke. ha ha He’s also not a fat-a$$ if we want to get real technical.
To add on Oden, to be as tall as he is and to have as much muscle mass as he seems to have, 7 percent body fat is truly freakish…
June 5th, 2007 at 9:59 am
Bennett told Daniels and Santos that there are “other options on the table”. Does he mean local or The Plains / Ozarks. Looking at out of town options with a local offer is a breach of contract and he must be held accountable.
June 5th, 2007 at 10:23 am
Even if he could bench it once, would that make him a better basketball player? No way. Heck, even if he could bust out 10 reps I dont think that’d change his game. The bench is a joke of a test for these players.
I know I can lift more than Rid, well for sure I could his rookie year, so lets say I can rep 225 3 more times than him. Would he therefore struggle against me on the court? I think not. Won’t make a difference either way.
I just dont get the bench press, any one have a clue as to why this is done? I guess I could see it possibly for a PF or C, but even then its kind of a joke, Nick does just fine down low and I think he lifted 225 one time.
June 5th, 2007 at 10:24 am
sorry 185lb..
June 5th, 2007 at 11:12 am
[...] as “general manager” when it has been reported elsewhere as GM and president. Brian Robinson of SonicsCentral: “If Clay [Bennett] does file for reloca [...]
June 5th, 2007 at 11:32 am
Nicknames……
Wilcox on defense “WilBlox”
Kevin Durant “Sickman” Theme song already in place by Alice in Chains.
What is Rays? Little Smoothe? Jesus Shuttlesworth? Butter? Lights out?
June 5th, 2007 at 11:49 am
Maybe we will know if Bennett paid $350 million to be in this market or to get the cheapest/fastest way to OKC in a year. If he moves it, part of that price was to compensate Schultz for the even greater heat he feel from then on. Schultz wanted to go and his departure was a good thing but it is too bad the rest of the ownership group couldnt make an offer to take it over and shed Walker too.
Stanton, Sabey, etc. didnt get it done, though Schultz either made it very hard or impossible.
June 5th, 2007 at 11:56 am
KD tanked the weight lifting tests.
He visited Seattle and Portland and decided there is no comparison. He wants to be Based in Sea-Town BABY!!!!
June 5th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
Yet another interesting tidbit. Bob Santos, the man behind the Muckleshoot proposal, is married to Sharon Tomiko-Santos, who just happens to be Frank Chopp’s aide in the House. Oh the drama!
June 5th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
“Even if he could bench it once, would that make him a better basketball player? No way. Heck, even if he could bust out 10 reps I dont think that’d change his game. The bench is a joke of a test for these players.
I know I can lift more than Rid, well for sure I could his rookie year, so lets say I can rep 225 3 more times than him. Would he therefore struggle against me on the court? I think not. Won’t make a difference either way.
I just dont get the bench press, any one have a clue as to why this is done? I guess I could see it possibly for a PF or C, but even then its kind of a joke, Nick does just fine down low and I think he lifted 225 one time.”
Uh, what? A point guard bench press is A LIL different than a sf not being able to bench 185 lbs. Guards are obviously smaller than sf’s and strength is not as important at that position.
He’ll get stronger as time goes on, just like Rashard did when he came out, but don’t get it twisted: strength is relevant at the sf position. Rashard struggled against bigger sf’s, just like Durant will early on in his career. To say it plays no role is ridiculous.
AND Collison gets bullied inside on defense and gets his shot rejected AND has more fouls per minute than almost anyone in the NBA (top five for sure), so don’t think for a minute it doesn’t play a role.
June 5th, 2007 at 3:21 pm
“Uh, what? A point guard bench press is A LIL different than a sf not being able to bench 185 lbs. Guards are obviously smaller than sf’s and strength is not as important at that position.
He’ll get stronger as time goes on, just like Rashard did when he came out, but don’t get it twisted: strength is relevant at the sf position. Rashard struggled against bigger sf’s, just like Durant will early on in his career. To say it plays no role is ridiculous.
AND Collison gets bullied inside on defense and gets his shot rejected AND has more fouls per minute than almost anyone in the NBA (top five for sure), so don’t think for a minute it doesn’t play a role.”
Nick getting his shot blocked has nothing to do with his benchpress, that’s his jumping ability. Also, I dont see him getting bullied around that much, hes tough down there and holds postiition well imo. Also, wouldnt holding down postition have me to do with leg strength than the flippin bench press???
Tayshaun is no super duper bench press machine I’m sure and he does just fine, same with AK. my point is, the bench press is a poor method to test basketball strength imo. If anything, test their legs and shoulder strength.
Rashard filled out everywhere, not just his chest. His arms and shoulders have nice seperation now.
I’ll stand by my statement, I dont think ‘BENCHPRESS’ has nearly any affect on a SF, SG or PG’s play. Possibly a PF and C, but really, none of these guys are exceptional bench pressers anyhow, with the exception of a few….Big Ben, Mourning, Shaq etc.
Also, who cares if KD or Rid or Nick could only do one rep, it doesnt mean that its a weak point to their games. If they each did 5 reps no one would be talking about this anyhow and from one rep to 5 reps ain’t jack of a difference.
June 5th, 2007 at 5:35 pm
Nick is 5th in league in fouls per game at 3.5 but that doesnt seem a huge problem and he is covering for others a lot of those times. Proving that it depends how you ask the question, Collison is surprisingly only 144th in fouls per minute.
June 5th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
Overall general strength matters when you’re getting posted up. I played basketball competitively, and I’m not going to have someone tell me it doesn’t, you can bully ppl inside much easier.
Bench press is just a part of your overall strength, but if a dude going into the NBA can’t bench press 185 once and isn’t a speedy little guard, I think gm’s, scouts, etc. will keep that in the back of their mind. It’s not like I’m saying, ‘let’s not draft Durant at number two, the guy can’t bench press.’ I’m saying, much like Robert Swift when he came into the league, obviously one of the first things we’ll do is get him on a strength program.
We’ll agree to disagree.
The dude’s going to be siccc either way, who cares…I’m honestly glad we’re just able to have this conversation. If we were at number five or six, I’d be trippin’ more over the fact that the Seahawks let go of Herndon and here we are, a Trufant injury away from having Kelly Jennings (2nd year) and Josh Wilson (R) on the corners for a team supposedly competing for a super bowl.
Anywayz…
June 5th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
Moderation? Oops, I forgot what site I was on for a minute. Collison is king, Collison is king!!!!!! Post my comment! hehehe j/k
June 5th, 2007 at 9:01 pm
“”Overall general strength matters when you’re getting posted up. I played basketball competitively, and I’m not going to have someone tell me it doesn’t, you can bully ppl inside much easier.
Bench press is just a part of your overall strength, but if a dude going into the NBA can’t bench press 185 once and isn’t a speedy little guard, I think gm’s, scouts, etc. will keep that in the back of their mind. It’s not like I’m saying, ‘let’s not draft Durant at number two, the guy can’t bench press.’ I’m saying, much like Robert Swift when he came into the league, obviously one of the first things we’ll do is get him on a strength program.
We’ll agree to disagree.”"
Yeah, I understand where you’re coming from. The only thing I disagree with is why they pick benchpress instead of like squats or deadlift or something.
“”The dude’s going to be siccc either way, who cares…I’m honestly glad we’re just able to have this conversation. If we were at number five or six, I’d be trippin’ more over the fact that the Seahawks let go of Herndon and here we are, a Trufant injury away from having Kelly Jennings (2nd year) and Josh Wilson (R) on the corners for a team supposedly competing for a super bowl.
Anywayz…”"”
Yeah, he’s gunna rock and I’m stoked about that. Picking 5 or 6 would be totally lame compared to what we have to look forward to right now, its pretty exciting. I have been questioning that Herdon move since the day I heard about it, it does make me a wee bit nervous. Some Hawks forums I lurk here and there seem to be pretty excited about it, mostly due to the young guys playing bigger roles now.
“”"Moderation? Oops, I forgot what site I was on for a minute. Collison is king, Collison is king!!!!!! Post my comment! hehehe j/k “”"”
LOL.
June 5th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
Hey now I have moderation….umm, GO NICK, YOU ROCK BRO!!! ALL STAR NEXT YEAR!!!
June 5th, 2007 at 9:03 pm
LOL, didnt work, shoulda picked Swifty
June 5th, 2007 at 11:44 pm
“if a dude going into the NBA can’t bench press 185 once and isn’t a speedy little guard…”
Reggie Miller wasn’t a speedy little guard, but I bet he could never get the bar up.
June 6th, 2007 at 9:19 am
Off topic (as usual): Bryce, is there a Seahawk site like Sonicscentral? Lemme know if ya could…
“Yeah, I understand where you’re coming from. The only thing I disagree with is why they pick benchpress instead of like squats or deadlift or something.”
They only do bench press???
June 6th, 2007 at 9:48 am
So as a huge fan of the Sonics since I was born, and even with them sucking my roommate and watched almost every game that was on t.v. None the less, as a huge fan I am will to help do whatever it takes to help keep the team here…
So what can I do as a fan? Or even more so… What can us fans do to help save our Sonics?
Sign a petition, get signatures, what?
Thank you,
Beau
June 6th, 2007 at 11:22 am
“Reggie Miller wasn’t a speedy little guard, but I bet he could never get the bar up.”
Funny little story about that comment.
I was working down in Portland, 6 or so years ago happen to be in the small gym that used to be on the bottom floor of the US Bank Plaza building down there. Working out one afternoon in the weight room after my run on the waterfront and who comes in, but 5-6 of the Pacers and a couple trainers.
Dale Davis was doing curl reps with one of the younger post players, Bender I think. Davis was a monster. Talk about a dude sportin’ some guns. Bender was a skinny kid next to him.
Then over on the bench press was none other than Reggie Miller and one of the backup guards….I believe it was Travis Best.
All I can tell you, is there was no way Miller was going to bench 185 lbs even once.
June 6th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
MTP- I’m not a member there, but just lurk. It’s not a blog like SC, you have to register, but they’re die-hard Hawk fans. When the season starts it really picks up there. Peace out!
http://www.seahawksal.com
and the other one is ESPN, but you know how that goes most of the time.
June 6th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
I think one way to help the sonics is to get as many friends to submit their name and email to the letter generator on this site. Let’s flood our representatives inboxes so they have no question that this is a huge issue. The main factor that caused the house to not vote on a bill was that there was not enough visibility that people cared. We need to hit streets and protest!
January 18th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
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July 26th, 2008 at 2:04 am
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