Durant a SG?
Posted on Thursday, July 12th, 2007 at 8:45 am by Brian Robinson
So when I hear something once I nod and smile. Twice and I make a note to ask a question again. When 3 people in the organization make the same comment then I start to take note…
While the organization is extremely tight lipped nowadays I’ve been talking to people about the whole Durant/Lewis/Green group that recently became Durant/Green. My question is really simple, out of that group who can defend the SG position? The answer has been consistent. Jeff Green is a 3/4, he cannot play SG but Kevin Durant can and will guard the SG spot.
Is the team envisioning Durant as a SG next season? I’m not certain that they think he can be a full time guard but clearly they have confidence that he can and will play that position for large stretches of time. It will be interesting to see a guy of his length playing out on the wing so much.
Speaking of Durant this little tidbit appeared in Mark Steins ESPN column yesterday:
Oden’s summer might have ended before it started and Durant might be shooting 9-for-36 from the field, but one veteran personnel man chided me before I could even ask for his assessment of the draft darlings so far.
“Even when Durant misses, his shot is so damn gorgeous,” he said. “Their time is going to come. These are 19-year-old kids playing against men for the first time.”
I agree about the shot. It gives me shivers to see the way he releases the ball. He’s getting bumped a lot and it’s hurting him but he’ll gain confidence and fouls will be called differently during the season. You can see that it will get better just by watching him play.
There are no free agents left that I have any interest in whatsoever.
July 12th, 2007 at 9:07 am
He does have a great-looking shot. Sort of Dirk-like. He releases it at a high angle and it is hard to defend. It will fall in time.
July 12th, 2007 at 9:09 am
Well, I’ve stated numerous times before that Kevin Durant has the ability to play shooting guard on offense. Yet, as it was, several folks kept clamoring for Durant to play power forward, which would’ve been a disasterous situation for him considering his slender physique.
Anyway, my point remains that Durant has the ball-handling, passing, driving, and long-range shooting skills to adequately replace Ray Allen — who, unfortunately, was traded the Boston Celtics for a dime on the dollar — however, Durant seemingly lacks the athleticism to defend some of the quicker and more athletic shooting guards in the NBA.
I, therefore, suggest that the Seattle Supersonics attempt to acquire a player who’s got the ability to play small forward on offense and shooting guard on defense (e.g., Josh Childress, Corey Maggette, et al.). All things considered, that type of player would perfectly compliment Durant’s skill set.
July 12th, 2007 at 9:11 am
Stop writing like that.
July 12th, 2007 at 9:13 am
I, therefore, suggest that the Seattle Supersonics attempt to acquire a player who’s got the ability to play small forward on offense and shooting guard on defense (e.g., Josh Childress, Corey Maggette, et al.). All things considered, that type of player would perfectly compliment Durant’s skill set.
- I totally agree…that is why a guy like Gerald Wallace would’ve been golden for this team. Not that he was available, but his skill set is what is needed
July 12th, 2007 at 9:19 am
I can’t see it, but it’s early in his development. He seems a much more natural fit at small forward. I also don’t see him able to defend the quicker shooting guards when they drive down the lane, but guarding small forwards that take it along the baseline would be easier since he can recover and use his length to alter shots . He also has some nice post moves and as shooting guard I don’t see him being able to utilize that part of his game.
But he does have a nice looking outside shot. But so does Dirk and I’ve never heard anyone suggest he should play shooting guard. Or Radmanovic for that matter. Perhaps because Durant is a fairly skinny kid still they figure he should stay on the outside more until his body matures.
I don’t know. It just doesn’t seem right to me, but if the Sonics think he can handle that position, then they should have him playing there at summer league to get a better assesment. From what I’ve seen in the two games he’s played they have him at small forward.
July 12th, 2007 at 9:19 am
“Stop writing like that. ”
Agreed.
July 12th, 2007 at 9:22 am
I think we did better than a dime on the dollar by far.
Delonte West is a pretty good combo-guard who can play the point decently well.
Jeff Green is a prospect with potential, his game complements Durant’s, and they’re from the same area, which undoubtedly keeps Durant happier.
We also got rid of a 32 year old shooting guard who’s had surgery on both ankles. I know that Allen has about 2-3 years of high level productivity left in him, and it sucks that we lost a veteran presence… but I think we came out okay on the whole.
In the long run, people will say we traded an aging SG for a young draft prospect, and a decent guard, and Wally… who comes off the books in a 2 years. On the whole, that sounds relatively decent.
Plus, we’re clearly re-building… How would Allen have felt about that?
July 12th, 2007 at 9:26 am
All right, Ninja Jordan, I’ll might switch up my writing style solely to appease you.
Wait, what’s that?
Okay, it seems that I’ve made my decision and, well, it didn’t go in your favor. Indeed, my technique won’t be altered in any way, shape, or form—so deal with it.
July 12th, 2007 at 9:26 am
Also… any trade proposals to bring back Antonio Daniels are vetoed in my book.
July 12th, 2007 at 9:29 am
I generally like the idea of trading Allen for West + 5th pick; and I like Jeff Green as a player. But I worry that Green won’t be able to play his natural 3 position on the Sonics because Durant’ll get 40mpg there. Green can seemingly play some 4, but is he really a starter at that position in the West? He gives up some size at that spot, and may be overpowered trying to guard WC PF’s. He also doesn’t look like a great rebounder either, which is another attribute we need at the 4 spot.
How that all plays out is an intruiging question. As it stands, it seems logical to bring Green off the bench as a versatile 6th man type of player. But again, is this what Presti traded Ray for, a career 6th man type?
July 12th, 2007 at 9:33 am
Look, y’all should quit bitching about my goddamn writing.
Instead of incessently complaining about such a trite issue, the petty faultfinders should take the time to digest the substance of my posts. Hell, those critics might actually learn something.
July 12th, 2007 at 9:35 am
The Sonics can start Green or Gelabale at small forward and either should be able to defend the 2 if necessary. I’m sure PJ can solidify a defensive scheme to protect the holes against quicker shooting guards. Besides, why not play zone defense…aren’t the Spurs focused on giving the opposition more of the long-range shots?
Anyways, the Sonics won’t win a championship this year even if Durant plays the forward spot.
July 12th, 2007 at 9:36 am
Dammit, Ninja Jordan, we agree about Jeff Green.
As a guy who’s more than willing to give folks credit whenever they deserve it, I’m going to give you some well-earned props for making a cogent critque concering the Ray Allen trade.
July 12th, 2007 at 9:42 am
It is “incessantly”. Nothing worse than a pseudo-intellectual…
July 12th, 2007 at 9:42 am
I think Leff Green makes more sense playing the SG spot.
He has been pretty good as an on-ball defender in summer league thus far, and he really enloys passing and racking up assists.
I dont know about Greens long range shot though???? Is he any good?
Otherwise I think Green makes much more sense playing the SG than Durant.
July 12th, 2007 at 9:45 am
I know - its Jeff Green!
July 12th, 2007 at 9:45 am
AK, the substance-to-dross ratio of your posts make them virtually unreadable.
July 12th, 2007 at 9:47 am
BTW - Whats up with Hodge?
He seems like a lock to get a contract this year.
Is he gonna be a Sonic?
That free throw form of his looks sickly.
July 12th, 2007 at 9:51 am
To me, Green and Durant are both 3’s. I’m not sure if Durant could guard 2’s and I doubt Green could operate in the post against 4’s. They are both versatile, but I would think the Sonics still need to find an actually 2 guard.
July 12th, 2007 at 9:52 am
“That free throw form of his looks sickly.”
AGREED! Wow, I mean, you are trying to play in the NBA. Now I know that you don’t have to have the prettiest J to get in, but I mean, that is something he really has to work on, because with that form, I don’t think he will be a real reliable free-throw shooter, unless he shoots like 100 in pregame warm-ups.
July 12th, 2007 at 9:56 am
“Look, y’all should quit bitching about my goddamn writing.
Instead of incessently complaining about such a trite issue, the petty faultfinders should take the time to digest the substance of my posts. Hell, those critics might actually learn something.”
You are SUCH A DRAMA QUEEN.
July 12th, 2007 at 9:57 am
I thought Durant showed some promise defensively in the 2nd summer league game.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:00 am
Since the use of vulgairty within my post that’s currently in moderation will probably cause it to be deleted by Brian — or, perhaps, an altogether different moderator — I’ll just rewrite a part of it here.
Dude, Sonics70, I’ve never claimed to be a world-renowned speller; besides, we all tend to make mistakes. Also, your conclusion that I’m not intelligent due to my one spelling error is completely asinine. It makes you seem like a prick, too.
Look, Moffet, my track record speaks for itself. If you consider that to be waste, then so be it. That’s your problem.
Anyway, let’s get back to discussing basketball.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:02 am
Anyone who types a comment using all capital letters should have their opinion automatically dismissed due to being a tool.
I, by the way, didn’t even start this s***.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:07 am
How that all plays out is an intruiging question. As it stands, it seems logical to bring Green off the bench as a versatile 6th man type of player. But again, is this what Presti traded Ray for, a career 6th man type?
- Again this is the biggest part of the Ray Allen trade…not that Ray Allen was traded…just how the 5th pick was used.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:08 am
actually you do give a s***.
It’s called the Personal Fable.
You think everybody really, really cares what you think and do.
You when you walk in a room and everybody’s looking at you? They aren’t.
Same with this crap you pull in here. One little negative comment and you BLOW IT OUT OF PROPORTION!!!!!
Middle School students experience this and usually grow out of it by late high school.
Also, the personal fable also insists that everything you do should be appreciated and valued. You can’t see that people actually are annoyed and a little saddened by your behavior. You do offer some good insights - but your posts are so esoteric and can be so LONG.
The answer?
Humility. Try it some time. You’ll be happier.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:10 am
Since the use of vulgairty within my post that’s currently in moderation will probably cause it to be deleted by Brian — or, perhaps, an altogether different moderator — I’ll just rewrite a part of it here.
Dude, Sonics70, I’ve never claimed to be a world-renowned speller; besides, we all tend to make mistakes. Also, your conclusion that I’m not intelligent due to my one spelling error is completely asinine. It makes you seem like a prick, too.
Look, Moffet, my track record speaks for itself. If you consider that to be waste, then so be it. That’s your problem.
Anyway, let’s get back to discussing basketball.
- This is funny…I wonder what the timeframe is for each new person to get used to AKs “style”…what does it say about the people who it doesn’t even phase anymore?? If anything, AK’s writing has become more tame with age…
July 12th, 2007 at 10:12 am
Well, Rachit, I know that a lot of people needlessly dislike Anotnio Daniels; otherwise, there’d be no need to have this debate.
Yet, unlike those folks, I realize that Daniels — no matter his overpriced contract — had the best assist-to-turnover ratio in the NBA last season. Furthermore, Daniels has the ability to draw fouls at a high rate, which is a skill that’s not possessed by many point guards other than him.
All in all, though, it seems that those detractors won’t be convinced to change their faulty stance; thus, it’s a moot point.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:19 am
AK - I just love people like you who try to act educated and intelligent and then the instant they get called out as a fraud, start calling people a prick. LOL
You do a better job of proving my point than I do…cheers!
July 12th, 2007 at 10:21 am
” I also don’t see him able to defend the quicker shooting guards when they drive down the lane”
I thought the same thing until the other night when KD was left one on one with the NYK SG. He got low and spread his arms and the NY guard couldnt get around him. He looked awesome in is low crouch. Like a tarantula. Durantula. What madeit nore appealing was the fact that Walt Frazier, who had been very critical of KD the whole game and is the worlds biggest homer, even he comented that KD looked goos defending the 2 guard and didnt allow the baseline. Then a few minutes later KD had the ball wrestled away from his hands by a smaller man down low for a rebound. That also caught my eye and left me wondering where our rebounding would come from this season. And wondering if he could take a beating down low all year with his less than mature body. Either way all of that dovetails beautifully with the 2 guard talk. I am all for it. KD at 2/3. Green 3/4.
I know it was just a couple of plays in summer league but his perimeter D looks pretty good to me.
And I agree that shot is just pure butter. Even when it doesnt go down. I like the Dirk analogy regarding his release.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:21 am
“This is funny…I wonder what the timeframe is for each new person to get used to AKs “style”…what does it say about the people who it doesn’t even phase anymore?? If anything, AK’s writing has become more tame with age…”
Hell, Myk, you hit the nail on the head.
Regarding the people who are no longer phased by me, it shows that they’ve reached a level of nirvana. Instead of getting all pissed off about my pushy, over-the-top way of voicing my viewpoints, y’all just take it in stride. Yet, all things considered, it’s mildly amusing that some people get all worked up about something so trivial.
Lastly, B.J. Quimba’s tangent is laced with hypocrisies. As it is, anyone who rants against the exact thing that he or she is currently practicing resides in a realm of contradictions.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:25 am
For whatever it’s worth, Sonics70, I’m neither a genius nor a retard — hell, my use of a politically incorrect term like retard should indicate that I’m not too smart — so just calm down, relax, and focus your attention elsewhere.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:26 am
Good point Calabro - I saw the same thing in that game. He obviously has the handle and shot to play the two and could certainly abuse almost any two in the league down on the block. If he can guard that position it makes more sense to have the 6-7/245 WS or 6-9/235 JG playing the three.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:26 am
You think everybody really, really cares what you think and do.
- Ummmm don’t we all think in some sense that people care what we think? Why say anything if you think no one cares what is coming out of your mouth? People might not agree with you…but everyone here thinks that the other people on this site care what they think…or they simply wouldn’t post.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:29 am
Ak, your posts would be easier to read if you used fewer phrases, cliches, and big words. The expression “keep it simple” makes for a more pleasant reading. I’m not trying to bag on you by the way.
Back to basketball, the lineup I want to see this fall:
Ridnour (plays better when starting)
Durant (so excited to see him play)
Green (not sure if he should start, but…)
Collison
Swift
July 12th, 2007 at 10:31 am
Kevin Durant on KJR following the break!
July 12th, 2007 at 10:31 am
Durant is scheduled to be on KJR in the next segment.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:32 am
True. but the caveat is really, really care. The importance of other people’s opinions creates such an emotiional response that all kinds of ridiculous thoughts and attacks result. It’s how you respond that matters. WE all have a point of view we care about and want to debate. How much we care what people think and how we respond emotionally is what I was getting at.
Pyscho-babble blah blah blah.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:32 am
“Back to basketball, the lineup I want to see this fall:
Ridnour (plays better when starting)
Durant (so excited to see him play)
Green (not sure if he should start, but…)
Collison
Swift ”
Looks solid, but I think that Wilcox would replace Collison in the starting lineup, cause we need some scoring and he’s the next best scorer to Durant we have right now.
Collison would also be great off the bench in backing up both the 4 and 5 spot.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:32 am
Two suggestions AK:
1. switch to the newest version of Firefox. It has a nice spell checker for forms.
2. read some Hemingway. He was a very efficient writer and you could use a lesson.
You know…
As much as we tire of AK’s posts…
He is still…
A better writer…
than Steve…
Kelley
aka
Mr. Line
Break
July 12th, 2007 at 10:36 am
I can’t seem to find the “Ban AK1984″ thread. Does anyone have a link?
July 12th, 2007 at 10:37 am
Anyone have any thoughts on Wilcox vs. Collison as the starter at the 4 next season?
Personally I feel if Nick can finally get that jumper going he could be an excellent player. Honestly it is hard to figure out why his shooting has been so awful - maybe the shoulder surgery a few years back?
July 12th, 2007 at 10:37 am
Silvio, good point about Wilcox. I guess having collison come in as back up for both Wilcox and Swift when needed could work well.
Anyone think that Swift could pick up a bunch of garbage baskets this year?
July 12th, 2007 at 10:39 am
Cant’ listen anymore… I have to get some lobster.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:39 am
“Lastly, B.J. Quimba’s tangent is laced with hypocrisies. As it is, anyone who rants against the exact thing that he or she is currently practicing resides in a realm of contradictions.”
So you can dish it out but nobody else can? I can’t respond by talking about your personal fable because it would be then, a sign of my own personal fable? That is a contradiction to you?
Then I guess you can just go ahead and rampage without ever being called on it by anybody.
That’s a great way to get out of owning up to your crap, AK.
Really looking forward to engaging in the future pots, “You, Me, Everybody’s an a-hole… let’s get it all out”
July 12th, 2007 at 10:40 am
Whenever we start to fall apart at the seams, let’s just take exception with Steve Kelley. As was insinuated by James, it’ll make us feel better about ourselves.
Anyway, B.J. Quimba, I’ve got nothing against you; however, you responded to my post that was solely about Kevin Durant with a bunch of bombastic rhetoric. If that doesn’t exemplify an overly emotional response, then I can’t think of a worthy example.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:42 am
It’s how you respond that matters. WE all have a point of view we care about and want to debate. How much we care what people think and how we respond emotionally is what I was getting at.
- I find it amusing is that if no one commented about AKs writing there would be no emotional response either way…calling him out only justifies that his writing is working…
I can’t seem to find the “Ban AK1984″ thread. Does anyone have a link?
- Why would we want to ban AK…I don’t often agree with him…but he is one of the people that keeps this site alive and running. People need to just respect that we are going to disagree a lot of the time…but I guess this is why I don’t understand why so many people think I’m an a$$ just because I have strong opinions (just like most everyone else here..)
July 12th, 2007 at 10:42 am
Why the hell do you use so many commas? It makes you sound like a retard. It, therefore, gives me a headache to read your posts, so to speak.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:43 am
““Back to basketball, the lineup I want to see this fall:
Ridnour (plays better when starting)
Durant (so excited to see him play)
Green (not sure if he should start, but…)
Collison
Swift ”
I think I’d rather see the staring lineup as:
Luke
West
Durant
Wilcox
Swift
That leaves the first rotation as Durant moving to 2 and Green and Collison comng in for West and either Wilcox or Swift (who ever seems overmatched that night). So much versatitilty. There is nothing wrong when your first 2 guys off the bench are Green and Collison. This team has a little more depth than most.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:44 am
Silvio, good point about Wilcox. I guess having collison come in as back up for both Wilcox and Swift when needed could work well.
- I do think that relying on Collison as a back up is the best move for the team. He won’t have to worry about foul trouble as much…
July 12th, 2007 at 10:45 am
Sonics70, Collison shot 50% from the field last season (318-636). I think that when both Allen and Lewis were healthy, Nick just wasn’t getting the shot opportunities. Maybe this year he’ll be given more of a #2 option as the season rolls on.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:46 am
Sarcasm, pure sarcasm. Without AK I wouldn’t be able to point and laugh at my moniter. I was going with the general attitude of the AK bashing and wanted to inject some levity.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:47 am
Is wally healthy now?
July 12th, 2007 at 10:47 am
One thing about KD’s KJR piece. He likes Wilcox. When asked about being doubled and tripled KD says they will have to triple team Willy before himself.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:47 am
I think that when both Allen and Lewis were healthy, Nick just wasn’t getting the shot opportunities. Maybe this year he’ll be given more of a #2 option as the season rolls on.
- If Nick is our #2 option we are in big, big, big trouble…
July 12th, 2007 at 10:48 am
I’m with AK — you guys bombarded him over his writing style. I don’t love his style but I appreciate that he has a style that’s different from every other poster. And he has some interesting ideas and is willing to stand by his opinions; keeps it interesting.
Speaking of which, I think Gelabale should start at the 2/3 spot. I love how active he is and his decision making. Plus, we could have the skinniest team in the NBA with Luke, Durant and Gelabale on the floor.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:48 am
1. I’ve already admitted to being a jackass.
2. I wasn’t the one who started this entire diatribe.
3. If you’re going to call me out for being a jerk, then you shouldn’t be a jerk in the process of doing it.
4. Why do people care about my writing style? It’s not that big of a deal.
5. Kevin Durant seemingly has the ability to play shooting guard on offense, but lacks the necessary athleticism to guard shooting guards on defense.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:49 am
He certainly shot well from the field, mainly because he was so automatic from within a few feet of the rim.
He shot 29% on jumpers last season according to 82games. That is atrocious for a guy that came out of Kansas with a reputation as an excellent outside shooter.
I remember him missing wide open pick and pop stuff last season - not like he was shooting fadeaways with two guys in his grill…
July 12th, 2007 at 10:49 am
..but you called mea tool, AK. It hurt my feelings.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:52 am
RE: Collison
“Maybe this year he’ll be given more of a #2 option as the season rolls on. ”
Collison as the second option seems like a recipe for disaster. I sure hope its Wilcox. Hopefully he will fully mature this year under PJ.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:52 am
There’s a guy on realgm that says that PJ Brown and Sam Presti have spoken with Devin Brown and that he’ll probably sing with us next week.
I’m not sure what to make of this, but he’s a solid sg that defends well and can score some.
Though, i really hope that’s not the final move for us before the season starts.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:54 am
Sorry, i meant that Devin Brown might sign with us.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:54 am
With Chris Wilcox apparently having a big role with the Seattle Supersonics next season, I’ve got fears about the team’s interior defense. Whether it’s due to a poor work ethic or lack of talent, Wilcox has never been a satisfactory defensive player.
Furthermore, as Scott and I have argued numerous times prior to this, Nick Collison is a better all-around player than Wilcox—which is mainly ’cause he gets the most out of his teammates while on the court.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:55 am
AK - I don’t think it is the writing style…more like the unbelievably long and tedious trade proposal posts you churn out a few times per day. I mean those things must take hours to compose and really don’t add value to the discussions here…
I have no problem with someone having an opinion, just make sure it is intelligent, thoughtful and not just a straight disagreement with every other poster for disagreement’s sake.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:57 am
“Why would we want to ban AK…I don’t often agree with him…but he is one of the people that keeps this site alive and running. People need to just respect that we are going to disagree a lot of the time”
Myk:
Excellent point, brother!!!!!!!! You are so right on. This is exactly what destroyed the PI forum! I’m glad to have joined you all and find it great reading whether I agree or disagree with some of the posts.
July 12th, 2007 at 10:57 am
Definitely agree about the interior defense. I also see Collison has a guy who understands the game and can provide some on court leadership for Swifty and the other guys. Kind of like a Shane Battier-type although Nick doesn’t seem very vocal. Maybe Ray and Rashard moving on will help him be more of an active leader…?
July 12th, 2007 at 10:58 am
“but you called mea tool, AK. It hurt my feelings.”
Man, I’m so worn out by all of this pointless blather that I can’t tell whether you’re being serious or sarcastic. If I legitimately hurt your feelings, though, then I apologize for doing that.
July 12th, 2007 at 11:00 am
Don’t think that Devin Brown is quite the veteran presence we need… looking forward to seeing what Presti does with that exception…I love the line in one of the articles where Presti said he was the most popular guy at Summer League! More and more impressed with this guy every day.
July 12th, 2007 at 11:01 am
sarcastic. : )
July 12th, 2007 at 11:02 am
Myk:
Excellent point, brother!!!!!!!! You are so right on. This is exactly what destroyed the PI forum! I’m glad to have joined you all and find it great reading whether I agree or disagree with some of the posts.
- You’re an idiot…
July 12th, 2007 at 11:03 am
“Whenever we start to fall apart at the seams, let’s just take exception with Steve Kelley.”
lol w/ AK
July 12th, 2007 at 11:03 am
I figured that was sarcasm. At this point, though, I couldn’t be too sure about anything.
July 12th, 2007 at 11:03 am
I, therefore, suggest that the Seattle Supersonics attempt to acquire a player who’s got the ability to play small forward on offense and shooting guard on defense (e.g., Josh Childress, Corey Maggette, et al.). All things considered, that type of player would perfectly compliment Durant’s skill set.
Corey Brewer would’ve been a nice fit there.
Don’t change a thing, AK. It’s only a matter of time before the ignorant dolts will come to appreciate your contributions.
July 12th, 2007 at 11:12 am
2010 they will be talking about Kevin Durant being the most unguardable 2 in the league. His ball handling skills and size will make it happen. Have you seen him handle the ball? He dosn’t turn 19 until Sept. His catch and shoot is so smooth. When he learns to use screens better….WOW. Remember Jordan taking other 2’s in the post at 6′6″. Imagine the mismatch when you are 6′9″ (possibly growing) with those long arms and taking other 2’s in the post. His nickname shouldn’t be Durantula or KD it should be the “Human Mismatch”
July 12th, 2007 at 11:15 am
“There’s a guy on realgm that says that PJ Brown and Sam Presti have spoken with Devin Brown and that he’ll probably sing with us next week.”
I can see him being in our training camp but a garanteed contract I’m not sure…
Decent rotation player, but not a starting caliber SG IMO.
Of course if Durant is our starting SG that’s not a problem
July 12th, 2007 at 11:18 am
How about “Unfad” for KD nickname?
It has 2 meanings:
1. Unfair advantage.
2. KD is the opposite of a fad.
July 12th, 2007 at 11:22 am
“Well, Rachit, I know that a lot of people needlessly dislike Anotnio Daniels; otherwise, there’d be no need to have this debate.
Yet, unlike those folks, I realize that Daniels — no matter his overpriced contract — had the best assist-to-turnover ratio in the NBA last season. Furthermore, Daniels has the ability to draw fouls at a high rate, which is a skill that’s not possessed by many point guards other than him.
All in all, though, it seems that those detractors won’t be convinced to change their faulty stance; thus, it’s a moot point. ”
I don’t dislike Daniels. I think he would be benficial to our team in some ways. But he’s not someone we need on our roster at the moment. We need to actually get rid of one of our point guards and find a shooting guard replacement (if Wally can’t fill it in for us).
Also, he chose to leave us a couple of years ago, and I’m not sure he’d want to come back. Also, we don’t really have much that the Wizards would want that we are willing to trade.
Maybe this has more to do with the trade proposals you come up with, since I don’t really think that a lot of teams would consider them viable options.
In regards to your writing, I have no problem with it, and I think people should just take it for what it’s worth. Normally I have no trouble figuring out what you want to say. I do think that it’s cool that you’re so involved and do your best to come up with different situations and scenario’s.
July 12th, 2007 at 11:22 am
what does lol mean and who says males don’t go through menopause?
go sonics
boycott starbucks
July 12th, 2007 at 11:26 am
For the record, I love Antonio Daniels. I’ll never forget how valuable he was for us in our sicc season and he saved Ridnour’s a$$ so many times it’s funny.
I know he got overpaid by the Wizards, but I think that’s the one inflated contract I would’ve taken on, definitely not Lewis…
July 12th, 2007 at 11:28 am
I thought it was hilarious how Bill Simmons kept mentioning the contract that Lewis got from Orlando in his Chat transcript yesterday.
Also, I’m glad the tensions have diffused in here.
July 12th, 2007 at 11:31 am
Three Things:
1. Neither Jeff Green or Durant should play the SG. Neither is fast enough or display the ball handling skills needed to create their own shots. Not that they can’t do these things, just not well enough in my opinion.
2. Worrying about who plays better defense on the SG is silly. Gelabale plays far better defense than half the team and has shown IN REAL NBA GAMES that he can handle the other team’s best player. He’s by no means a complete player but he’s every bit as good as Jeff Green is right now. I’m not saying that in the long run Jeff won’t be better, but right now he’s not at all. Sure Gele streaky but he’s a damn fine defender and super quick and has good handles.
3. WE NEED A REAL SG. Not someone who can play the 2, but someone who is a SG. Rip Hamilton would be the perfect sort of player here. Constant movement w/o the ball and is the best off-screen shooter in the NBA. Period. He’s also a pretty damn good defender. As well, he brings vet experience to a team that badly needs it. Not that we’re GONNA get him but someone like that is what the teams needs. They don’t need to stick someone into the system who is not ready. We already have WAY TOO much of that.
Side note:
The Ray Allen trade was a great deal. Granted I too would not have wanted to take Wally, but if that’s the worst you’re getting back, you did well. The Green addition may turn out to be a bust, but we’ll have to wait and see. Does anyone honestly think that keeping Ray means we’d really be winning. There’s no way. He’s always hurt. He does not take it to the rim often enough. That does not keep the defense honest. All anyone has to do to guard Ray is stay behind the 3-point arch and you’re golden. He’s a mediocre defender at best. In addition he costs the team 16 mil. No way is he worht that. It’s gonna be fine. Everyone including myself will have to be patient with such a young team, but honestly we had to be patient with our “aging” team for the last few years and they were’nt getting ANY better AT ALL. At least now we have something to look forward to.
July 12th, 2007 at 11:35 am
“There are no free agents left that I have any interest in whatsoever.”
I’m hoping we avoid free agents this season and next. 2009 has some post players that could be perfect: Andrew Bogut, Andrew Bynum, David Lee, Carlos Boozer, Mehmet Okur
July 12th, 2007 at 11:38 am
“Nick Collison is a better all-around player than Wilcox—which is mainly ‘cause he gets the most out of his teammates while on the court.”
Not acccording to +/- stats.
Wilcox has a ton more upside than Collison. Even KD can see that. Ray had somewhat the same feeling while he was here. If I remember correctly Allen was a big supporter of signing Willy.
July 12th, 2007 at 11:38 am
mark- lol = laugh out loud
and I say males don’t go thru menopause
on a more serious note: assuming we settle for the current lineup who really wants Durant playing the 2? He will be outmatched by a lots of quicker, similarly athletic types, when instead he could be blowing by guys as a SF, where he belongs. Also if people are worrying about scoring punch etc. why are we hoping that Wilcox will do it, when we have WallyZ who already averages more than he does? He may be a good “scoring punch of the bench” but with our lineup Wally should start over West, and Durant should play the 3 and only the 3. Just my opinioin but as much as we all like to hate on Wally (myself included) for his Geico-caveman look he is more valuable on the court than Delonte, on both ends. Especially since Durant is taking a pounding and the Ridson combo is pretty undersized I’m fine to have a biggish guy at SG. What are your thoughts on Wally starting if we can’t track down that “true veteran SG” we’re hoping for?
July 12th, 2007 at 11:40 am
Bit off topic and hate to bring up the depressing stadium issue but… WTF?!?!
http://thesportsbizblog.blogspot.com/2007/07/will-nba-finance-sactown-arena.html
http://boards.espn.go.com/boards/mb/mb?sport=nba&id=sac&tid=1086708&lid=1
Tuesday, July 10, 2007
David Stern has taken a very active role in the search for a solution to the Sacramento arena problem ever since the new arena financing package was defeated at the polls last year. The Maloofs, owners of the Sacramento Kings have said all of the correct things about not wanting to move the team, and the league, in the guise of Stern, has repeatedly said the Kings are staying put. Yet, no solution to the arena question has appeared on the horizon and Arco Arena is definitely not the answer for more than the couple of years it will take to build a new one.
Perhaps the league itself will be the finance solution for the Kings. The NBA is now denying that it will finance the arena itself, although the CBA affiliate in Sacramento was reporting yesterday that it had plans to do so.
If this plan is true, it marks a dramatic departure for the NBA which has made holding cities hostage for public financing of arenas into an art form. I would imagine that the league’s fellow owners in Major League Baseball and the NHL won’t be too pleased either, not to mention those few remaining NFL owners, like the Vikings, who haven’t squeezed out a new stadium in this latest round of construction. It’s certainly a bad precedent to privately finance an arena if you want to then try to go after public financing for the next one or two. It undercuts the argument that much harder that an arena is incapable of being operated profitably without public support.
July 12th, 2007 at 11:42 am
Nice article on Presti at CNNSI.com:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/ian_thomsen/07/11/sonics/index.html
July 12th, 2007 at 11:46 am
Kevin Durant might not be able to stand infront of the quicker sgs in the leauge, but he can sure as hell shoot over any of them.
I don’t think we should play him at shooting guard though. He is a natural SF.
Furthermore, as much as I hate to say this, Wally Z is our best sg right now (God I need to slap myself in the face for saying that).
Having a dead-eye outside shooter will help spread the floor for KD.
If we don’t trade for Hamilton, this is the line-up I’m envisioning
Luke
Wally Z
Durant
Wilcox
Swift
July 12th, 2007 at 11:48 am
How’s Wally’s defense?
July 12th, 2007 at 11:51 am
awful
July 12th, 2007 at 11:53 am
Although Wally Szczerbiak is a decent shooter, he’s an utterly atrocious defender (Opponents’ Net Points Per 100 Possessions: +5.4); plus, the guy is slow-footed, stationary, selfish on offense, and prone to injuries.
Basically, Szczerbiak shouldn’t play a single second for the Seattle Supersonics.
July 12th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Then it seems that if you’re going to start him with Ridnour and Wilcox you’ve still got some glaring defensive issues to worry about. But maybe Presti/Carlesimo can get a system and culture in place that turns things around in that dept.
July 12th, 2007 at 12:04 pm
AK- relax, if Wally is healthy he HAS to play “a single second for the Seattle Supersonics.” Lets not act like we have 30 NBA-ready players at our disposal. As a guy that can score 18 a night at put a body on opponents, at least he can physically wear down the opposing SG. No he’s not the quickest feet on the court, but he’s got 3 inches on West, spreads the floor with the 3, and gives us NEEDED scoring. About him being “selfish on offense” thats one of the things we need on this team! If opponents know he’ll always shoot when passed to then that means they won’t be doubling Durant. Also I’m interested how everyone is saying Durant will be an automatic 20ppg (if not 30, lol) and while I totally want this kid to explode his first year, I think we have to think realistically and at the end of the day realize he’s not going to lead the league in scoring… he may not even lead the Sonics in scoring. So AK, don’t count your chickens before they hatch. This team needs Wally to contribute.
July 12th, 2007 at 12:06 pm
I honestly don’t think that Parker, Ginobili, Finley and Barrry are any better individual defenders than Ridnour, Wally et al yet they have ridden excellent team defense to the title.
You could argue that Duncan is the key to that defense yet he isn’t a super shot blocker like Mourning or Mutombo. He is seven feet, does block shots and is always in the right place. But it only works within a strict defensive scheme, otherwise he is just Nick Collison sitting on the bench because he has to foul guys as they get to the rim continuously.
I would argue that with a Collison/Swift front line and a focus on team defensive concepts (which basically boil down to making them take the shots you want them to take), we could be much better even with a few folks in the backcourt that don’t have stellar defensive reputations.
July 12th, 2007 at 12:12 pm
Neither is fast enough or display the ball handling skills needed to create their own shots.
- Say….wha???? Lets hope this isnt true for Durant
Basically, Szczerbiak shouldn’t play a single second for the Seattle Supersonics.
- Based on his past few years I am sure he’ll be more than happy to just sit on the bench injured and collecting his paycheck.
July 12th, 2007 at 12:15 pm
Also I’m interested how everyone is saying Durant will be an automatic 20ppg (if not 30, lol) and while I totally want this kid to explode his first year, I think we have to think realistically and at the end of the day realize he’s not going to lead the league in scoring… he may not even lead the Sonics in scoring.
- I dont understand why this isn’t reasonable? Most Rookies of his skill level has acheived this level of performance.
July 12th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
lol Myk, yes he’d be fine getting “money for nothing and his chicks for free” but when the sonics need a 3 for the tie with 10 seconds left I don’t want Wilkins taking that shot. No need to deny it, Wally has a place on this team.
July 12th, 2007 at 12:20 pm
So he’s going to be our ‘Big Shot Bob’? If he can do that, then great. He does add some depth to the bench, just not much defensively.
July 12th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
How do you just get the itlicized text?! Anyway, it may be reasonable for a high caliber rookie to get those numbers but more than enything I’m surprised nobody addresses the bulk factor. DWade, James, Melo, etc. all had the brawn to play through contact. And while it will come with time, Durant doesn’t have that yet. I can see him getting 20 a game, but it will be because of all the fouls he will draw, thus he will get banged all season long and it will take a toll on him. I am as much a believer in this kid as anyone, but his tiny frame will prove to be more of a detrmiment than it did in college hoops. Just my $.02
July 12th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
No more Antonio Daniels please. His A to T ratio is high because he doesn’t push the ball and just methodically sets up the offense and hands the ball off to the scoring guard. Everywhere he’s gone, he’s been given a chance to start at the point and everywhere he’s gone, he’s lost the job or got traded. Please skip the friggin numbers and +/- and just watch the game. He’s a great guy to have on any team because of his defense, but please don’t put him in starting PG category. As a note, “safety” point guards always have good A to T. Paxson was one of the best in that category as MJ’s backcourt mate. He sure was a legit starting point right (7 ppg, 3 apg)?
July 12th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
Just like Luke, Wally needs to be in there along with Earl / Delonte / Jelly Man etc.. to cover lack of defense.
July 12th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
From what I’ve seen so far in summer league I’m still confused as to what Presti thinks Green and Durant will eventually develop into. Both guys look like true SFs to me with Green having more of a point forward style and Durant more of a scorer Rick Barry/Dr. J type. You could get away with playing Durant at the 2 guard with a shotblocker….I still think Presti will make a move to upgrade the PG position before the season, but if I was making a starting lineup today with the roster as it stands, it’d be Ridnour/West/Durant/Wilcox/Swift, with the reserves being Green/Collison/Watson/Petro/Gelabale and deep bench szczerbiak/wilkins with sene to the NBDL. you can see that at least one more move is needed here.
July 12th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
There’s Durant’s nickname for ya… Dr. K …
July 12th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
Dr. K
…..Nice
July 12th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
How about Durant playing the 2 on O and defending the 3 on D. Green playing the 3 on O and defending the 2 on D.
July 12th, 2007 at 12:41 pm
The only problem I have with AD at this point is his age. Too much money for a player that old.
July 12th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
“Does anyone honestly think that keeping Ray means we’d really be winning. There’s no way. He’s always hurt. He does not take it to the rim often enough. That does not keep the defense honest. All anyone has to do to guard Ray is stay behind the 3-point arch and you’re golden. He’s a mediocre defender at best. In addition he costs the team 16 mil. No way is he worht that.
This new-found need on this board to constantly rag on Ray since the trade is getting flippin’ ridiculous.
He’s always hurt — He was hurt last year. Had the team been going anywhere he would have played through the pain. He only missed a couple of games the previous two years. Hey guess what? Injuries happen in sports. Jeff Green’s already hurt his ankle, what does that mean?
All you have to do is stay at the 3-point line to guard Ray and you’re golden You really should share that pearl of wisdom with the rest of the NBA, because apparently none of them could figure that out. Unless you think you was awarded 26+ points a game just for showing up.
Lastly, no way he’s worth $16 mil Really? He’s a 7-time allstar. Take a look at how much 1-time allstars (including Wally) are making these days.
I don’t mean to be rude, and I don’t even mean to single you out Steveb, because Lord knows, you’re not alone in revising recent history — but the petty cheap shots have really been getting on my nerves. Oh, and I feel the same way about the treatment Rashard’s been getting too, although remarks about him haven’t been quite as bad — yet.
July 12th, 2007 at 12:47 pm
Sonics70 said:
“You could argue that Duncan is the key to that defense yet he isn’t a super shot blocker like Mourning or Mutombo. He is seven feet, does block shots and is always in the right place. But it only works within a strict defensive scheme, otherwise he is just Nick Collison sitting on the bench because he has to foul guys as they get to the rim continuously.”
I STRONGLY disagree with you. Duncan is one of the best defenders of all time. He is a VERY good shot blocker, an outstanding defensive rebounder, a good 1-on-1 defender and probably the best team defender since Bill Russell.
I like Nick, but comparing him to Tim Duncan is like comparing Flip Murray to Michael Jordan.
July 12th, 2007 at 12:48 pm
“Basically, Szczerbiak shouldn’t play a single second for the Seattle Supersonics.”
I hate to say it. But we need Wally Z to be a big contributor on this team. We are going to have serious trouble on the offensive end. All in all he could be our most polished scorer. Can’t believe I just wrote that.
July 12th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
Oops, forgot a tag somewhere.
““Does anyone honestly think that keeping Ray means we’d really be winning. There’s no way. He’s always hurt. He does not take it to the rim often enough. That does not keep the defense honest. All anyone has to do to guard Ray is stay behind the 3-point arch and you’re golden. He’s a mediocre defender at best. In addition he costs the team 16 mil. No way is he worht that. ”
This is the only part that should be italicized, seeing as it is a direct quote. Everything below that, are my sentiments. Sorry for the confusion.
July 12th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
“….I still think Presti will make a move to upgrade the PG position”
I hope if he makes a move it would be more like a consolidation move. A 2 for 1 or 3 for 2 deal. The way I see it is that if Dr. K spends significant time at the 2 we can keep West and one other point guard and be fine at guard with Wally as well. West can play PG when Luke/Earl sits and keep Wilks a 3rd option at PG. West/ Wally can play SG when KD is at 3.
So that would leave Luke or Earl as tradebait with the trade exception. To make it a 2 for1 trade we could throw in Collison and try for an upgrade for Collison. Like Oneal. Could he be had for Nick, Luke/Earl and trade exception or draft choices? Or some combination of those options? That way we wouldnt have so many eggs in Swift’s basket. I hope for Swift but to rely on him as a solid 30-35 minute center in the west is a recipe for disaster, IMO. Especially ifyou look at our depth behind him….Scary tosay the least….I hope Presti goes for a proven big if anything. There just arent many out there.
July 12th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
Wow the Sonics are gonna lose a lot of games this year. The only person everyone agrees should and can start this season is Durant, who is a rookie:
C, Swift: Yet to show [on the court] that he has bounced back from a serious injury.
PF, Wilcox: Defense/Rebounding inconsistent for a 4, Collison perhaps?
SF, Durant: Putting him at the 2 is silly, his rebounding is as good as his scoring.
SG, Green’s not a SG offensively or defensively, Wally’s hurt, Wilkins Hell No. OK West it is.
PG, Ridnour and Watson are both average, one can’t play D and the other can’t shoot 3’s, how can you start at PG in the NBA with sort of problems?
So there is ONE consensus starter and he is a rookie. Phoenix, Utah, Dallas, San Antonio, Houston, and Denver each have 0-2 spots in the starting lineup that aren’t filled by obvious superstarts that would start on ANY team. These six teams include:
AI
Melo
Camby
TD
Parker
Bowen
Ginobli (ok doesn’t start)
Nash
Stoudamire
Marion
Bell
Nowitzki
Howard
Terry
Yao
Tmac
Boozer
Williams
Kirilenko
Okur
So thats twenty players on these six teams who would all start on the sonics without question. They’re are others that probably should too (Harris, Dampier, Nene, etc.) but I am only using obvious ones. How many sonics would start on one of the teams (Durant, maybe?).
The Sonics have no chance of getting past the first round until Nash and Duncan retire. The Sonics need more talent. Every player on the team is a scrub including Durant until he proves it otherwise on the court. Hopefully Paul Allen will bring up the Trailblazers when this is all over..
July 12th, 2007 at 12:58 pm
Ray is gone. I’m done thinking about what his impact WOULD have been. Its a pointless waste of time. We weren’t good with Ray/Rashard last year.
July 12th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
I agree, Hoopster. Kinda funny that he wrote that after capitalizing the need for a real shooting guard. Hello?
I also get a kick out of people that refer to last year’s roster as an “aging” team.
July 12th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
Why are we even bringing Wilks into the discussion? He is a UFA and will not likely be on our roster. Unless Presto Presti considers him a “San Antonio” guy that fits the “culture” because he played there in 04-05. I doubt he will be part of the log jam at PG. He is not a “multi-position player” with a good “size to skill ratio.”
July 12th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
BW - I was making a situational analogy. I absolutely guarantee that if Duncan had quick guards penetrating into the lane at will from all angles and generating body contact he would be on the bench all the time. He ain’t that quick and he can’t really jump so he needs to know where the ball is and where it is likely to enter the lane (i.e. as part of a system). He is amazingly intelligent defensively in terms of always being in the right place but if he was playing for Bob Hill and was constantly having to clean up everyone else’s problems…they wouldn’t be nearly the defensive team they are.
I would note that Cleveland (who is only two slots below SA in defensive efficiency) employs a SA-style defense and they have the slow and lumbering Z (and the defenseless Drew Gooden) manning the lane. According to your logic that would make Z right behind Duncan and Bill Russell in the defensive pantheon.
July 12th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
Well, you gotta admit: Even if you disagree with the moves that the Sonics have made this off-season, it sure has got people talking. I don’t recall there being nearly this much discussion on here during last summer.
July 12th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
Egads people. Stop obsessing about positions. BBall is a game of matchups and compensating for mismatches. You’re right, KD will have trouble guarding the quicker, smaller players, but you simply have to hope (our success with that lineup will be predicated on) that his ability to take that player down low in the post will compensate, or that our team defense is better able to compensate.
I’m not articulating this well, but BBall is not like football. You don’t have set positions in a formation, you have 5 bball players all fulfilling roles. Some are going to do things well and others poorly. The team has to figure out how to exploit their mismatches and compensate for the other teams’ mismatches.
Besides, in todays NBA, nobody can guard the quicker guards, it’s just whether or not you can keep them from scoring easily once they get inside (traditionally for the supes that has been a resounding “No”). And for the supes on offense, our guards can’t score once they get inside (Watson, Luke).
July 12th, 2007 at 1:29 pm
Alex, i’m just glad we’re not going to spend the entire summer talking about Chris Wilcox’s “bargain” contract or Bob Hill’s “excellent” coaching.
July 12th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
Aww man, I’ll admit it. You can chalk me up as one of the ones who thought we were getting a pretty fair deal with Wilcox. I wouldn’t have gone as far as to call it a bargain, but I thought it was about right. I was basing that opinion on the fact that I figured he’d be close to a double-double average and would provide more stout interior D than he has.
I was never really sold on Bob Hill though. At first he looked like an okay coach, but then I realized that this was simply because my point of reference was inept (Bob Weiss).
Speaking of coaches, any word on who PJ’s assistants are going to be?
July 12th, 2007 at 1:37 pm
During the previous off-season, Dick Tate, you and I were two of the few guys who advocated against Chris Wilcox’s supposed “bargain” of a contract.
July 12th, 2007 at 1:38 pm
lol Myk, yes he’d be fine getting “money for nothing and his chicks for free” but when the sonics need a 3 for the tie with 10 seconds left I don’t want Wilkins taking that shot. No need to deny it, Wally has a place on this team.
- My point is that Wally has an almost Danny Fortson’eque ability to suddenly be injured during the season…the guy is heartless..
I absolutely guarantee that if Duncan had quick guards penetrating into the lane at will from all angles and generating body contact he would be on the bench all the time
- Despite people’s attempts on this site and elsewhere to discredit Tim Duncan’s game…he is simply one of the 5 or 10 greatest players of all time. Put him on the Sonics right now with the exact same roster and we’d be 48-50 win team going at least a round deep into the playoffs.
——–
For the person who wanted to know how to do italics. Before the comment you put a and at the end of the comment you put a
there should be no spaces between the chracters though.
July 12th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
“I was basing that opinion on the fact that I figured he’d be close to a double-double average and would provide more stout interior D than he has.”
i liked 3-18, not a huge fan of the deal they signed him for. On the bright side he will be an expirering contract next year…lol
Then again I still think we did okay with Nick’s extention. He would be a guy that gets the full MLE this year from some team, that’s basically what we signed him for.
July 12th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
Hmm the italics thing didn’t work…if you want to do italics or bold or underlines on the site go to Google and search for HTML font formatting codes
July 12th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
“- My point is that Wally has an almost Danny Fortson’eque ability to suddenly be injured during the season…the guy is heartless..”
Much as I dislike Wally (which probably goes back to when he single-handedly destroyed the Huskies in the NCAA tourney long ago), I don’t see how he doesn’t play 25-30 minutes/night. As much as the team is rebuilding and such, at the end of the day PJ wants to win ballgames. And (right or wrong), most coaches are going to go with veterans that they feel will give them a chance to win the most games possible.
PJ waited a long time to get his next head coaching gig. I don’t think he’s going to leave any stone unturned when it comes to looking for guys on this roster than will help him win ballgames. I’m sure it doesn’t matter to him who the individuals are.
July 12th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
It is possible for the Sonics to play some type of NBA zone, allowing Durant to defend the perimeter with his wingspan? Is that heresy to PJ?
Wilcox can score in the low post - way better than Collison. Not even close. The question is whether PJ yanks him for not playing defense. I say he will.
Green seems redundant. Why would Presti pick him? - that is the perplexing thing about the Ray trade in my opinion.
July 12th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
If Nick Collison had recieved the mid-level exception from another team during this off-season as a restricted free-agent, then Sam Presti should’ve re-signed him. Yet, as it was, Rick Sund shouldn’t've signed Collison to a four-year, $26,000,000 contract extension last season.
On a similar note, I still detest the three-year, $19,500,000 contract extension that Luke Ridnour received last season with a passion.
July 12th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
“On a similar note, I still detest the three-year, $19,500,000 contract extension that Luke Ridnour received last season with a passion.”
I agree with the spirit and philosophy behind the signings (lock up your younger “core” players early at a discount, versus letting them get crazy money in free agency), but I’m not so sure that Collison and Luke were the guys to implement that philosophy with.
July 12th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
Collison’s run of double-doubles would have been enough to get someone to overpay him, so I don’t mind his extension.
Ridnour’s contract extension hurts though. I really don’t see anyone in the league offering him more than the mid-level.
And I think Chuckles is going to be proven right–positions aren’t going to mean much on this team. I’ll be very surprised if Durant and Green aren’t both starting this season, likely in a 1C, 3F, 1G line-up.
July 12th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
Who in their right mind thinks Swift should start next year? Maybe after two or three months, but not in November. He hasn’t played in a NBA basketball in over a year, nor has played a full season yet. Collison is the better choice at the 5.
When a real center is available, hopefully Swift, Collison is the best power forward on the team. When looking at his +/- from last year consider that he was playing out of position most of the time at center; while Wilcox was playing at power forward. Comparing stats on both sides of the ball, Collison is a better team player and individually.
Just by numbers, I would like to see what West can do starting at the 2. At times play Durant at the 2 with Gelebale, Green, or Szczerbiak at the 3; Gelebale seems to do better at small forward. The defensive advantage with Durant at the 2 is his wingspan. He may not be as quick as many shooting guards, but he’s quick enough. Szczerbiak does not play shooting guard.
AK -
I support your trade and any other basketball ideas you may have to share. I hope you ignore the jeers. One of the great things about a forum is that everyone has a SILENT voice. It’s simple, if you don’t want to read opinions just bypass them.
July 12th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
“likely in a 1C, 3F, 1G line-up.”
Make that 1 Rebounding, interior D/shotblocking, possible post offense, 3 Versatile Matchup Problems/Solutions (from which you need secondary rebounding, ball handling and possibly creating, shooting….but really you want to be able to create mismatches and coverup mismatches), 1 Primary Ball-handler.
July 12th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
Can you imagine if Luke was a FA this summer. Either we could have signed him for a bargain basement type deal (likely) or he would get overpaid, walk, and the Ridnour/Watson debate would be over!
Collison’s contract is ok. At the time he signed it…..it was unwarranted though.
July 12th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
Not trying to discredit Duncan although the impact on wins you mentioned would be as much from him demanding that everybody work as hard on defense as he does as to him simply being a great big man from a talent perspective.
You cannot simply stick a great big man into a bad defensive squad and turn them into the Spurs. A perfect example is the Knicks before and after Pat Riley showed up. They had Ewing before he came and were the 12th ranked team defensively - but went straight to #1 in Riley’s first season. Why? Because he installed a system and more than anything demanded they defend hard every night.
I guess my point is is that defending really hard within a system is the key to a very good defense - adding a world class big man makes it a great defense.
July 12th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
“My point is that Wally has an almost Danny Fortson’eque ability to suddenly be injured during the season…the guy is heartless..”
Can’t agree with this. Some people are just injury prone. Thats just how it is. It has nothing to do with their heart or love of the game. Danny Fortson chose not to play. Despite Wally’s ability…….I’ve never seen him dog it.
July 12th, 2007 at 2:19 pm
Right behind you Menace. Nobody called out Allen when he went down with injury, or Swift, or Rashard. Not sure why Wally gets the Fortson comparison, c’mon the dude missed games because a tooth ache. Give Wally a chance in the sonic jersey before we pre-determine him as a scapegoat, please.
July 12th, 2007 at 2:26 pm
I’m a Wally hater too.
July 12th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
Whether you like Wally or not, I hate him, he is going to be a key player for us next season. As much as we speculate, we don’t know what Durant will do.
If you look at our roster, as much as this hurts to say, Wally could be our most consistent scorer. But If you look at his career…..you can pretty much pencil him in for around 15 ppg (when healthy). Thats not horrible especially if he is coming off the bench. Our biggest bench production last year came from Luke/Earl/Damien.
July 12th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
Ridnour’s contract extension hurts though. I really don’t see anyone in the league offering him more than the mid-level.
- When the two contracts were signed the Ridnour contact was the winner and the Collison contract was questionable. Im sure Bennett would love to have the ability to predict the future…but until he can do that he has to give contracts based on potential and productivity and Ridnour had shown it up until January 2007.
Right behind you Menace. Nobody called out Allen when he went down with injury, or Swift, or Rashard. Not sure why Wally gets the Fortson comparison, c’mon the dude missed games because a tooth ache.
- Everything I have read about Wally in his other two cities was that he was soft as TP…that was one of the biggest disconnects between KG and him…is this not true?? All Im saying is that to count on him to be a big part of this team this year is a bit foolish…he’s like Fortson in the sense you need to count whatever positives he brings to the team as unexpected gravy…not something to rely upon.
They had Ewing before he came and were the 12th ranked team defensively - but went straight to #1 in Riley’s first season. Why? Because he installed a system and more than anything demanded they defend hard every night.
- Tim Duncan is a signficantly better player…both offensively and defensively than Ewing was in the NBA…not necessarily a valid comparison
July 12th, 2007 at 3:24 pm
It’s funny how everyone sees things differently. MYK, I have the exact opposite opinion from you. Collison was a good signing and Ridnour was the questionable one.
July 12th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
I think you guys might have me pegged wrong: I’m not a Sczcshcsczserbiak fan, far from it. But I’m a pretty corny fan: once I know a guy has come over to our team I always always give him the benefit of the doubt. I’m not saying this guy is an all-star, but to ignore his steady 15ppg when he plays is foolish, calling that “gravy” with this current team is just disrespectful to what the guy can do. In case you guys have forgotten the extent of our veteran leadership on this team is Collison and Ridnour… no more Allen and no more Rashard. In the end these deals are well worth it (probably) and honestly this is a good thing, but we can’t be blinded by the potential of young guys. So I think we SHOULD expect a combined 30pts from Wilcox and Wally, we should hope that Luke gets back into form and that Watson finds his shot and we should DREAM that Durant becomes a leader, Green becomes a Scottie Pippen, and Swift is a force to be reckoned with. I really do breathe green and gold and what I want most is a successful team someday (in Seattle of course), but when we finally land a proven offensive player, why is everyone so quick to call him weak and soft when they overlook that for the PROVEN bang for our buck this guy isn’t too shabby. For everyone on the West, Swift, and Durant bandwagons we might as well give Wally a shot. Oh and I’m a UW alum, time to worry about the future and get out of the past. “I hate that guy because he beat my college team almost a decade ago, he dashed my hopes by WINNING so i don’t want a guy like THAT on my team”… get over it.
July 12th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
Wow, Wally’s got a career 15.6 ppg average. He put in 15 ppg last year when he played, and West dropped 12 ppg. That means we got 27 ppg + Green (? 10ppg ?) in exchange for Ray’s 25 ppg. That’s just on the offensive end: obviously, grabbing West & Green, both apparently good perimeter D players, is an upgrade over Ray on the defensive end.
Obviously, the jury’s still out on what we’ll get back from the Lewis S&T but I’m stoked we got some flexibility and at least got something instead of overpaying him or letting him walk for nada, as previous mgt indubitably would have.
Don’t stop now, O Presti-digitator!
July 12th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
Sonics70 -
I don’t disagree with you that a good defensive system is key, but I strongly disagree that Collison could do comparably to Duncan if the system worked. The fact is that the Spurs’ system works that well BECAUSE of Duncan. Not just because of his physical talent, but because of his awareness, intelligence, instincts, communication, and leadership. And speaking of Physical talent, he’s better than Collison in every aspect. Bigger, stronger, longer arms, quicker, faster, better shooting touch, etc. etc. etc. As a huge Tim Duncan fan, it offends me that you (and many) have such a low regard for his talent and his influence on the success of the Spurs.
July 12th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
“It’s funny how everyone sees things differently. MYK, I have the exact opposite opinion from you. Collison was a good signing and Ridnour was the questionable one.”
In heinsight its easy to say that. But to Myk’s point, Ridnour at the time of the signing was more deserving of that type of money. Then last season happened and the situation is currently flipped.
“All Im saying is that to count on him to be a big part of this team this year is a bit foolish”
I don’t think its foolish. Again I’m not a Wally fan and hate his acquisition. Who can we count on to score though? Wilcox/Ridnour are our highest scoring returning players at 13 and 11 ppg respectively. We all assume Durant picks up a huge scoring load (I hope). But on paper, the only proven consistent scorer we have is Wally. I think its more foolish to think that Wilcox/Ridnour/Collison can be consistent scorers.
Be honest Wally haters (me included). You hate him because he is a pretty boy or that he beat UW. You might hate him because he has a history of injury (no doubt he did). Quit acting like he is the worst player in the world. He is definitely overpaid (no doubt).
Career average of 15 ppg 2 apg 4 rpg shooting at a .493 clip. On paper……he is our best proven player. Yeah…..I think its crazy too.
July 12th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
“It’s funny how everyone sees things differently. MYK, I have the exact opposite opinion from you. Collison was a good signing and Ridnour was the questionable one”
I just wish I could see the light in either..Colison just seems to have been going backwards IMO. The big numbers were OK last season but too many turnovers for my liking. Thus the bad +/-. For example his rookie year he avg 17 minutes had 62 turnovers. Last season at 29 minutes a game his turnovers have doubled to 123. Simple math tells you that his minutes didnt double up but his turnovers did .Not what I would expect. Hopefully as a player gains experience his turnovers decrease not increase.
While Wilcox isnt tons better he is much better. From what I see he played approximately 160 minutes more (31 mpg) than Collison with only 5 more turnovers.
July 12th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
I don’t think early extensions are ever a good idea unless you’re dealing with a legitimate star player.
July 12th, 2007 at 6:14 pm
Bring back Brent Barry?
(Hey, he’s a Spurs player!)
July 12th, 2007 at 9:20 pm
I’m not a Collison fan, but 9 pts 8 rbs a game for $5.7 mm is a steal.
July 12th, 2007 at 9:46 pm
“I’m not a Collison fan, but 9 pts 8 rbs a game for $5.7 mm is a steal.”
Well unfortunately its not a steal for the franchise to have a guy like him as 2nd option at center. Like it or not, it is what it is. And when you look at the first option(Swift) how can we start the season without another big?
Oh yeah, we have Petro and Sene. If either of those is considerd 2nd option at center we may win may games at all next year. Nobody around here seems concerned and in fact some are wanting another guard with the trade exception money. How crazy is that when we just found out that KD will be part of the guard rotation as well. We need to lose a guard if anything.
Pick up some size or we are in trouble. I’m certain Presti is looking at it that way. The only 2 rumors I have heard were Baston and now Thomas. Veteran PFs. That should tell ya something.
July 13th, 2007 at 12:00 pm
“Well unfortunately its not a steal for the franchise to have a guy like him as 2nd option at center. Like it or not, it is what it is. And when you look at the first option(Swift) how can we start the season without another big?”
Considering Nene and Kaman turned numbers like that into $10 mm/year deals………it is a steal.
Who says Swift is our starter? I know a lot of people assume he is……..but to me he hasn’t proven anything. I think its wrong to automatically pencil him in as the starter when he hasn’t proven he fills that spot yet. For all we know his injury affords him 2/3 of a season. I’m no doctor though.
July 13th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
So without Swift as a reliable starter Collison or Willy are # 1 options at 5? How can this not be a glaring hole in the lineup?
“Considering Nene and Kaman turned numbers like that into $10 mm/year deals………it is a steal”…..
If Collison could play the 5 like Kaman he would be worth 10 mil. Kman put up his numbers against big men moreso than Nick. I would think that if Nick played the same minutes at 5 as Kaman his numbers would be less.
July 13th, 2007 at 7:39 pm
steve:
thanks for the info.