2010: A Deal is a DEAL!
Posted on Friday, July 20th, 2007 at 8:24 am by Brian Robinson
During the course of the last year I have spent a great deal of time advocating on Clay Bennett’s behalf. While I don’t regret that decision I have certainly re-thought it a number of times.
The decision by Save Our Sonics to support him early was not made lightly, and it was not made uninformed. In initial conversations with the team and the PBC’s representatives it seemed clear that they would make a sincere effort to remain in the region. This sentiment was echoed too loudly to be ignored by heavy hitters throughout the region. From senators like Margarita Prentice to industry leaders, to lobbyists in Olympia there was a clear consensus that the Bennett ownership group had successfully pitched the fact that they deserved the benefit of the doubt and that they were doing more than the previous ownership group to get something done. To believe that he entered this process with poor intentions was to believe that he had pulled the wool over the eyes of some extremely smart and powerful people.
So SOS&S decided to play the odds. Clay owned the team and the best chances of keeping them here was to empower him to do so, always knowing that allegiances could shift at any time.
Early in the process it became obvious that there was a difference of opinion regarding any type of campaign or groundswell of support. Bennett’s own private nature, combined with advice he was getting from Seattle strategists and employees led the team to pursue a strategy of getting this done behind closed doors, without engaging the fan base in general. There have been times that I feel that this decision amounted to an intentional “tanking’ of the effort and others where I believe that it had a chance to succeed, simply failed. I will say that I truly believed that a good chunk of that strategy developed inside the Sonics Seattle based front office, with Oklahoma City interests frequently questioning it and looking for reassurance on our end.
SOS&S became rapidly frustrated but unwilling to risk the Renton arena with a public dispute. In February of 2007 we sent correspondence to the Bennett camp advising that unless some basic effort was made to fix these PR problems we would be forced to withdraw our support publicly during the legislative session. As a result of this letter we entered into a series of meetings that I believe did make an impact on the process. Unfortunately it was too little, too late and in many ways the legislative package was doomed from the start.
Make no mistakes about it, Bennett was given no fair shot by the Washington legislature and from what I understand was treated quite rudely. At one point near the end of the session I got a call from someone in his camp asking what to do about Frank Chopp and advising that Clay had personally left seven messages begging for a meeting with Chopp and never received a reply. From what I have heard Clayton Bennett is a proud man who took extreme personal issue with this treatment.
To this day Bennett has still maintained publicly that he wants to remain in Seattle. I believe however that these statements have to be subject to question based on his behavior of the last several months. During this time frame he has never returned a call from our camp and according to reports from people around the state we are not alone. Potential development partners, political leaders, trade association leaders, all describe Clay Bennett’s “open door” as more of an “unsupervised answering machine” where you leave messages and then never receive a callback.
Just over one week ago I contacted Bennett’s office advising them that SOS&S had formed a new committee, “A Deal Is a Deal” PAC with the intention of filing a public initiative which would block the mayors ability to negotiate an opt out of the lease. In a “speak now or forever hold your peace” type letter we advised that we had this mechanism in place, it had been reviewed, and would legally bind them to Seattle until 2010. I asked that, if there were any way they could convince me of their honest intentions could we please have a discussion now, before I potentially interfered in the process.
I received a single reply to this letter which indicated that they would get back to me shortly and wanted to talk. I would guess that yesterday’s announcement is my further reply and I can only read into it that they don’t want to talk.
I can no longer come up with any reasons why Clay would be unwilling to have dialog with those who want to publicly support him. Why he has completely and totally ignored the idea of communicating with fans on the ground. At this point I can only assume the worst and take his words with skepticism knowing that he is likely trying to steal our teams. I hope to be wrong about this a will willingly apologize to him if/when I find reason to.
Early next week A Deal is a Deal, PAC will be filing an initiative designed to enforce the Seattle SuperSonics lease through the 2010 season. After EXTENSIVE legal review we believe this option to be legally binding and virtually assured to pass. The time it takes to get it on the ballot will depend on the number of volunteers and financial contributions we receive. Most likely the campaign will kick into full gear coinciding with Basketball season and we will publicly ask the mayor to restrain from subverting the will of the people until this matter is voted on.
If we can receive sufficient financial contributions we believe that we can have the required signatures in as little as 3-4 weeks. Checks can be made out to “A Deal is A Deal, PAC” and mailed to 2622 NW Market St., Suite A, Seattle WA 98107
As a PAC we will be subject to public disclosure of all donations. Unused funds will be returned pro-rata to those who made the donations.
Thanks to all our fans and supporters.
July 20th, 2007 at 8:33 am
Also I want to respond to commentary in a previous topic that the Sonics could simply “pay their rent” and satisfy specific performance.
We have conducted extensive legal review including meetings with the City Attorney and that sentiment is simply not accurate. Public buildings are build with benefits in addition to rent being the primary consideration and when “specific” performance is cited then it can be “specifically” enforced. In the lease the Sonics obligation is to play all home and playoff games in the key, the rent is an extremely small portion of the compensation the team gets.
OKC is willing to make a significant financail incentive package to bring the Sonics their way, but must be extremely cautious in doing so before a buyout is agreed to. The concept is called “third party tortuous interference of a contract” and the legal issue is that you cannot incetivize someone to default on a legally binding contract.
I don’t think the league will approve any move that involved breaking a lease without agreement by the city. If they did so how could they ever look a municipality in the eyes and ask for a public building.
There are serious precedent issues here and right now everything rests in the hands of Greg Nickels. It the Sonics leave it is because the Mayor let them.
July 20th, 2007 at 8:47 am
Brian,
What do you think of Mitch’s interview of Clay Bennett?
Mitch is hands down the best interviewer on that show because he will ask the hard questions unlike a Softy/Groz/Gas fluff interview.
July 20th, 2007 at 8:49 am
This is great news! I’ll be plunking down monetary support ASAP! Am I correct in assuming A Deal is A Deal, PAC is going to pay people to get signatures? Like the people with the “cardboard clipboards”, or will they need volunteers to get signatures?
July 20th, 2007 at 8:50 am
What did Bennet say on KJR 950 this morning with Mitch. The streaming link didnt work for me on their site, but I know he was on at 8:15 regarding a meeting with Nichols….and Bennet hates Mitchies so there has to be something brewing.
July 20th, 2007 at 8:55 am
“There are serious precedent issues here and right now everything rests in the hands of Greg Nickels. It the Sonics leave it is because the Mayor let them.”
If the Seattle Supersonics relocate to Oklahoma City after this season, then the blame should be placed upon a multitude of people.
July 20th, 2007 at 8:57 am
After listening to Clay on KJR this morning, he appears to be embittered by his treatment by Seattle’s politicians. Reading between the audible lines, the purpose of the meeting with the Mayor is to begin negotiations on getting out of the lease. It seems to me that Bennett has decided that Seattle doesn’t want the Sonics and he has decided to move the team home to Oklahoma City.
The only strategy to keep the Sonics is to force Clay to sell the team by threatening to bankrupt Bennett by forcing him to stay at the Key until 2010.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:00 am
While I won’t fork over any monetary contributions toward the organization that Brian mentioned within his diatribe, my hope is that the City of Seattle officials will legally force Clay Bennett to fully adhere to the Key Arena lease through its entirety.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:07 am
“The only strategy to keep the Sonics is to force Clay to sell the team by threatening to bankrupt Bennett by forcing him to stay at the Key until 2010.”
Dammit, I’ve got to laugh at that comment.
Look, Clay Bennett is a billionaire; therefore, any financial loses that he might incur from being a partner of the Professional Basketball Club, LLC won’t propel him into bankruptcy.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:19 am
Just over one week ago I contacted Bennet’s office advising them that SOS&S had formed a new committee, “A Deal Is a Deal” PAC with the intention of filing a public initiative which would block the mayors ability to negotiate an opt out of the lease. In a “speak now or forever hold your peace” type letter we advised that we had this mechanism in place, it had been reviewed, and would legally bind them to Seattle until 2010. I asked that, if there were any way they could convince me of their honest intentions could we please have a discussion now, before I potentially interfered in the process.
They must consider this a serious threat because after you notified them of this they went on the PR offensive about how Clay wants to meet with the city to work out an agreement.
Don’t let them pretend that they are working with the city to find a compromise solution to stay in a renovated Key Arena or a renegotiated contract when just yesterday he said on Supersonics.com he said “From day one we have maintained that it is our objective and preference to keep the teams in the market. However, this can only be achieved through the development of a new state of the art multi-purpose arena facility,” Bennett said.
They have no intention of comprising!!!
July 20th, 2007 at 9:20 am
My guess is they are trying to get the buyout done before a Deal is a Deal gets off the ground.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:26 am
I hope “Deal Is A Deal” either is retroactive to today or obligates Nickels to enforce, rather than just say he can’t accept a buyout when he may have already signed away.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:29 am
Clay didn’t tray to make ANY insinuations that he was trying to negotiate any renovations of the Key.
Mitch point blank asked him if they city said they’d throw 200 million of their money to renovate what would he say. He responded with, “I would tell them that would be a bad investment.”
So Mitch pinned him down and asked, “So that is that a no then?” Clay said, “Yes.”
Mitch didn’t follow up with a why, which he lamented later.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:29 am
How much is still owed on Key Arena? The buyout would have to be close to that, wouldn’t it?
I still don’t understand why he would take such a huge loss and then move to a much smaller market…
Also… since all (or majority?) the team owners have to approve the move, we could always send all of them letters pleading them not to allow the sonics to move. Would that be a viable option/last resort?
July 20th, 2007 at 9:31 am
Good points debatepro. I think you’re correct in assuming they took the A Deal Is A Deal public initiative very seriously and now are on a mission to get out of the lease before the initiative gets passed.
Thank you to Brian, SOS&S and all people involved in getting this going!
July 20th, 2007 at 9:38 am
“I can no longer come up with any reasons why Clay would be unwilling to have dialogue with those who want to publicly support him.”
Heres a reason. He doesnt want or care about public support. It is a very common attitude displayed by the rich. It’s real name is arrogance and he has more than his share. I’ve spent my fair share of time around these type of people and alot of them suck as human beings. They have that real estate agent/used car salesman personality they use as a business. Knowingly bs-ing people without a care. Alot of time I think that the reason they are so rich is their penchant for only caring about themselves and theirs and their moral ability to ignore and sleep at night. That is something most people cannot do.
I’d like nothing more than to see him bankrupt at this point. And totally agree with Brian that he has pulled the wool over some very smart people’s eyes. For this he deserves what he gets.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:38 am
“I still don’t understand why he would take such a huge loss and then move to a much smaller market…”
My only thought is he/they have BILLIONS of dollars. I get the feeling they’re willing to take major loses to be able to bring professional sports to their home town of OKC. It seems the Sonics are more of a toy than a business investment to current ownership.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:40 am
Bennett has issued a call to action to the political, business and civic leadership of the city, county and state asking for substantive dialogue to discuss potential solutions… “As part of the purchase and sale agreement, we committed to the previous owners and the NBA that we would work for one year from the close of the transaction, until October 31, 2007, to secure the development of a successor venue to KeyArena. In this time we developed what we believed was a pathway to a successful NBA and WNBA future in the region; a new multi-purpose arena with the SuperSonics and Storm as lead tenants…We now invite the leadership of the Seattle area to reengage on this issue.” Bennett said he has asked Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels for a meeting as soon as possible. “As the Mayor of Seattle, the home city to the SuperSonics and Storm, we believe the Mayor is the appropriate person to provide leadership and guidance on this issue,” Bennett said.
So they are only working with the Mayor to secure a “new multi-purpose arena” on the Key arena site? I doubt that. They are definitely trying to spin that they are working with the city to come to a compromise solution. However, they aren’t willing to compromise. It has to be a “new multi-purpose arena”. That’s not a compromise. In addition, I think even if they could get the Mayor on board to a “new multi-purpose arena” there is little chance that it would pass. Apathy is just two high. Bennett even knows this: “The issue is clear and simple; does the leadership of the region wish to retain its professional basketball teams? If so, serious productive discussions must commence at once. If not, as owners we must consider all of our options in regaining the financial viability of the business,” Bennett said.
It is an ultimatum that can’t be met. So its only purpose is to try and leverage a buyout which is why it’s critical to make them stick with the deal until 2010.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:41 am
Brian, with the “A Deal is a Deal, PAC”, what is your fundraising target? How much are we talking to get the signatures required?
July 20th, 2007 at 9:43 am
I read one article and I feel like there is hope. The next day I read another article and I feel doomed. I am so emotionally exhausted. Of course I will be thrilled if they stay and hurt if they go. But at this point I feel ready to check-out mentaly until something real actually happens.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:43 am
“It seems the Sonics are more of a toy than a business investment to current ownership. ”
That is almost always how it is in professional sports. I believe owners rarely get involved in pro sports ownership for the economicreturns, though sometimes they can be rewarding. It is usually for a personal interest (hobby) or civic pride (to keep a team in their home town).
July 20th, 2007 at 9:46 am
After hearing the Clay Bennett interview on KJR, I am convinced we are dangerously close to losing the Sonics in Seattle. I think Clay has accepted the fact that his ownership group is not going to get the world class facility they desired.
He doesn’t even want to consider a $200 million dollar renovation of Key Arena, and the Muckleshoot property is a bit too far from downtown Seattle for his taste. He’s just not willing to meet the city halfway.
Upon hearing about A Deal is a Deal, I’m convinced Clay’s sudden interest in meeting with the Mayor is all about negotiating a deal to end the lease before 2010. He wants to get this taken care of before A Deal is a Deal gets off the ground.
Our only hope of saving our Sonics now rest with the ability to hold Bennett to his lease with Key Arena. He get’s the buyout and we probably never see NBA basketball in Seattle again. I’m afraid we are at the end of our rope, and we need to pick oursleves up and climb that rope back to the top to save our Sonics in Seattle!
July 20th, 2007 at 9:49 am
It seems funny to me that Bennett is saying the same thing Stern said last year in that he is challenging the leadership of the City of Seattle as to how much they value the Sonics. What about the fans? We dont count to him.
July 20th, 2007 at 9:52 am
This is awesome! Thanks so much for doing all this Brian!
I live in Dallas so I can’t volunteer, but would love to donate to the cause! Is there a paypal account or some web-based donation system in place? I haven’t mailed something in a couple years. lol I’m not even sure how much a stamp costs
-=marc
July 20th, 2007 at 9:54 am
Well if Clay starts to feel a financial pinch whats to stop him from unloading contracts like Kevin Durrant for 3 future picks and a n overpaid stiff.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:02 am
“Well if Clay starts to feel a financial pinch whats to stop him from unloading contracts like Kevin Durrant for 3 future picks and a n overpaid stiff. ”
That would plumment the value of the franchise and result in the current owners taking a bit financial hit when they tried to sell a team with no talent left on it.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:05 am
And even if Clay’s a hobbiest who doesn’t care where his team is, or what market it’s in, he’s not going to want to field an inferior team or one with no future (never mind that the Sonics would be less likely to hold big names for long in OKC than in Seattle).
July 20th, 2007 at 10:07 am
Agreed. NO WAY does he damage current or SALE value of the franchise by doing something THAT stupid.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:09 am
But if his plan is to move to OKC and not sell why would resale value be a consideration? He controls/owns the OKC media and would probably be able to get the OKC lathered up about the only game in town.
But if he is forced to stay in Seattle he might do something drastic like unload Durrant.
My point is that he seems to have the leverage and is in a position to call the shots.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:09 am
The Suns traded center Kurt Thomas this morning in a move that relieves some salary-cap pressure.
Thomas goes to the Seattle SuperSonics, along with the Suns’ own 2008 and 2010 first-round draft picks in exchange for a future conditional 2nd round pick and a trade exception, worth about $8 million.
The league’s new luxury tax threshold — the number at which teams would begin to be taxed — came in different from what the Suns expected, at $67.9 million, and would have left Phoenix more than $10 million over that number.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:09 am
Clay should just sell to the locals. The problem is all the secrecy. It’s like his plan is to keep things murky enuf to discourage potential buyers.
Why hasnt PJ hired ANYONE?
Why hasnt Presti shown any penchant for using the trade exception?
Why havent we consolidated an obviously imbalanced lineup that basically nobody believes will be the same opening day?
July 20th, 2007 at 10:11 am
Even media control won’t keep fans going to games if you drop your teams BIGGEST draw, Kevin Durant.
It’s not like he has a big zombifying beam tied to downtown OKC or something.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:12 am
Call It Like Calabro - they just traded for Kurt Thomas and 2 future first rounders
July 20th, 2007 at 10:16 am
I knew it
July 20th, 2007 at 10:16 am
link? source?
July 20th, 2007 at 10:17 am
Can we get a paypal link?
July 20th, 2007 at 10:17 am
http://www.nba.com/news/433057.html
July 20th, 2007 at 10:18 am
http://www.sonicscentral.com/bboard/viewtopic.php?t=4060
July 20th, 2007 at 10:19 am
KJR is reporting it. Say confirmed by Sonics…KT and picks in 2008 and 2010.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:21 am
Jul 20, 2007 12:37am ET
Suns Trade Kurt Thomas to Sonics
In THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC, Paul Coro reports “the Suns traded center Kurt Thomas this morning in a move that relieves some salary-cap pressure. Thomas goes to the Seattle SuperSonics, along with the Suns’ own 2008 and 2010 first-round draft picks in exchange for a future conditional 2nd round pick and a trade exception, worth about $8 million.”
July 20th, 2007 at 10:21 am
Well done guys! Hopefully we can generate some press about the fact that Bennett is the one cornered right now. He has a lease that he can’t exit without spending millions upon millions (and only if the city LETS HIM), a broken business model, and many locals willing to come forward to keep the sonics here. I’ve maintained this entire time that he’s been trying to scare us into giving him more than we need to.
On another note, fantastic job by Sam Presti!!! Kurt Thomas is a fantastic one year pick up, and getting the two first rounders, especially the 2010 one will be a great help for this growing core we have now! The fact that he got Orlando to give us this exception AND a conditional 2nd, which is what we’re sending to PHX (though maybe not that exact 2nd) for no reason, and now managed to get 2 firsts and a verteran big man is just incredible.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:21 am
I need to check the front page more often
July 20th, 2007 at 10:24 am
Are we so convinced that the Mayor will opt for a buyout that we’re willing to let him wash his hands of the lease discussions? What if he was going to say no anyways? I’m concerned about leaving any decisions up to a public vote, because there are a lot of people out there that just want the sonics to leave - the sooner the better as far as they’re concerned.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:24 am
What??? We got Thomas???
July 20th, 2007 at 10:24 am
I’m not defending Clay Bennett at all. His efforts since the legislative shut down have been poor. But I’d probably do the same thing in his shoes. If I’m him……I’m completely frustrated and fed up with this market. I actually feel the same way……and I live here.
1. The legislature has completely screwed you. No fair shake at all.
2. The media has been against you from day one. Even when any efforts were made…..he is portrayed as “going through the motions”
3. The fans are against him.
4. Chris Van Dyke/City of Seattle
So the legislature/city said no and the media and fans hate you. How motivated are you to get up everyday and work hard to keep a team in a market that hates you? 0. Nada. Zilch. Do you really blame him?
July 20th, 2007 at 10:25 am
Yeah we just fleeced the suns.
Portland had fleeced the suns..so it was our turn.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:27 am
If that Thomas deal is true. Let me be the first to say I was completely wrong. AK was almost right on with that deal.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:28 am
Another email sent to Mayor Nickels. I’d encourage everyone to continue sending respectful, well thought out messages to the Mayor.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:29 am
Yeah, I just read it at Arizona Republic. Wow, hopefully the Suns suck by 2010 and that pick becomes pretty hot.
Basically Rashard Lewis for Kurt Thomas and two 1st round picks. I can live with it. Better than nothing….
July 20th, 2007 at 10:32 am
Excellent trade! Nice job Presti.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:35 am
“Basically Rashard Lewis for Kurt Thomas and two 1st round picks. I can live with it. Better than nothing….”
Didn’t we also get a second-rounder from Orlando?
July 20th, 2007 at 10:36 am
“Didn’t we also get a second-rounder from Orlando?”
Yes Moffit, but we have to give the Suns one of our 2nd rounders so it is an offset
July 20th, 2007 at 10:38 am
No, the Seattle Supersonics didn’t fleece the Phoenix Suns.
Instead, Robert Sarver and Steve Kerr fleeced Clay Bennett and Sam Presti by dumping over $16,000,000 in financial obligations for nothing more than a pittance.
Since the going rate of a low-end first-round draft pick is worth $3,000,000 in cash considerations, Presti essentially overpaid by absorbing $8,091,197 in salary through the acquisition of Kurt Thomas for a 2008 first-round draft pick and a 2010 first-round draft pick from the Suns.
Basically, Presti let Sarver off of the hook without getting a worthwhile return, as the 2008 first-round draft pick (via the Atlanta Hawks) wasn’t included within the Kurt Thomas deal. All in all, the Supersonics didn’t receive fair value in this case.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:38 am
Nickels will be on with Softy in 30 minutes!!
July 20th, 2007 at 10:40 am
Hey Brian,
Is there any way you can also set up some sort of online donation option for “A Deal Is A Deal”?? I think you’ll be able to get a lot more financial help if there’s also an online option. Just my two cents (but I’d also like to throw my literal two cents into the mix online!)
July 20th, 2007 at 10:44 am
Very, VERY interested in hearing what Nickels has to say. Hopefully more than a canned statement.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:45 am
“I’m not defending Clay Bennett at all. His efforts since the legislative shut down have been poor. But I’d probably do the same thing in his shoes. If I’m him……I’m completely frustrated and fed up with this market. I actually feel the same way……and I live here.
1. The legislature has completely screwed you. No fair shake at all.
2. The media has been against you from day one. Even when any efforts were made…..he is portrayed as “going through the motions”
3. The fans are against him.
4. Chris Van Dyke/City of Seattle
So the legislature/city said no and the media and fans hate you. How motivated are you to get up everyday and work hard to keep a team in a market that hates you? 0. Nada. Zilch. Do you really blame him?”
Likewise, if I was an affluent businessman, then I’d theoretically buy a out-of-town professional sports franchise with the intent of relocating it to my hometown.
My main issue with Clay Bennett, however, was the sleazy way in which he went about accomplishing that objective. As it is, Bennett should’ve been upfront and honest with his intentions from the beginning of this whole ordeal.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:46 am
“All in all, the Supersonics didn’t receive fair value in this case. ”
Of course, our (fans) opinion of “fair value” is not always or even often in agreement with the market.
I agree the Atlanta pick would have been the primary target I would have been going after in this trade and probably would have held out longer before agreeing to the Suns two future first round picks………..but two first round picks are still two first round picks and looking at a pick 3 years down the line it is hard to say where that one may fall. Amare’s knee gives out and Nash gets old in a hurry and all of a sudden that pick could be pretty valuable.
Either way, it is not a “fleecing”, however getting a decent veteran to work into the rotation with our young post players, along with buying two first round picks…….is a decent move.
July 20th, 2007 at 10:47 am
MAYOR NICKELS WILL BE ON KJR IN THE NEXT 20-30 MINUTES!!
Softy better not let him off the hook and pound him to get answers
July 20th, 2007 at 10:52 am
This is all a smokescreen to distract us from discussing the Sene/Petro breakout game
July 20th, 2007 at 10:53 am
If possible, please post a synopsis of the Nickels interview for us out of staters that cannot listen to the local broadcast. Would be much appreciated by myself and I am sure several others in my position.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:05 am
I agree with those that think this initiative is speeding up the buyout process. Looks like the 12-month window closed a few months early.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:06 am
Brian, I appreciate your efforts and all those involved!
Wow! What a move by Presti and team! To lose Lewis, but gain two first round picks and Thomas is a solid move. I like Thomas on this team for one year. He brings some experience at that position which has been lacking for the Sonics. Also, if he performs well it could lead to another positive trade to a contending team that needs a big. What are the odds Collison or Wilcox gets traded this year?
July 20th, 2007 at 11:13 am
“What are the odds Collison or Wilcox gets traded this year?”
Are you implying that Kurt Thomas makes one of these guys expendable? Because he doesn’t.
We get cap relief in a year with this move. Period. I’m not excited about two late first round picks or Kurt Thomas. Hopefully keeps Petro off the floor.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:23 am
Regarding the Seattle Supersonics remaining obligations to the Key Arena lease through 2010, I bet that the City of Seattle hastily agrees to a buyout with The Professional Basketball Club, LLC.
As Mayor Greg Nickles mentioned on “The Dave Mahler Show” today, the Seattle Center would be fiscally hindered by the construction of the King County Events Center — regardless of whether it was publicly, privately, or mutually funded — thus, I tend to believe that City of Seattle officials are intrigued by the possibility of a buyout.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:24 am
So the Mayor doesn’t think he has the hammer to steadfastly keep the team here until 2010.
“Never say never,” when asked if there was a number to buy out of the lease.
Not exactly the, “We are NOT under ANY circumstances letting them out of the lease,” sort of interview we were hoping for.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:26 am
Nickels says that he may not have the ability to hold Sonics to lease if Bennet pays full value. Nickels stated there exists precedence for courts siding with a full lease value buyout. Not good.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:27 am
i still don’t understand why clay wouldnt do a 200+ million dollar renovation of key arena, i mean it would make it a very nice place, and nickels even said the city woudl take the mortgage payments off the hands of the sonics to make it more financially attractive, and im sure the politicians could find someway to work around I-91
July 20th, 2007 at 11:38 am
“i still don’t understand why clay wouldnt do a 200+ million dollar renovation of key arena, i mean it would make it a very nice place, and nickels even said the city woudl take the mortgage payments off the hands of the sonics to make it more financially attractive, and im sure the politicians could find someway to work around I-91”
There are two options here, Brice.
1. The Washington State Legislature completely funds the building of a $500,000,000 state-of-the-art multi-purpose facility (i.e., the King County Events Center) somewhere in the Puget Sound, which would thereby allow The Professional Basketball Club, LLC to flip the Seattle Supersonics for a huge profit to a local buyer (e.g., Steve Ballmer).
2. The Professional Basketball Club, LLC relocates the Seattle Supersonics to Oklahoma City, Oklahoma; consequently, Clayton Bennett becomes a renowned civic leader — as well as somewhat of a philanthropist — within his hometown community.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:40 am
I keep thinking back to that meeting Bennett had with employees a few months back, where he said there was a 99% chance the Sonics would play in Seattle next season; That 1% has been sticking in my craw.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:41 am
“i still don’t understand why clay wouldnt do a 200+ million dollar renovation of key arena,”
It may speak of Bennett’s motives from the beginning. Receive a $500MM sweatheart gift of a deal in Renton or move the franchise. That may have been his intentions all along.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:43 am
“I keep thinking back to that meeting Bennett had with employees a few months back, where he said there was a 99% chance the Sonics would play in Seattle next season; That 1% has been sticking in my craw. ”
There is already a 100% chance that the Sonics are going to be playing in Seattle next season. It is the 2008/2009 season where the question mark begins.
July 20th, 2007 at 11:54 am
There are two options here.
1. The Washington State Legislature completely funds the building of a $500,000,000 state-of-the-art multi-purpose facility (i.e., the King County Events Center) somewhere in the Puget Sound, which would thereby allow The Professional Basketball Club, LLC to flip the Seattle Supersonics for a huge profit to a local buyer (e.g., Steve Ballmer).
2. The Professional Basketball Club, LLC relocates the Seattle Supersonics to Oklahoma City, Oklahoma; consequently, Clayton Bennett becomes a renowned civic leader — as well as somewhat of a philanthropist — within his hometown community.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:11 pm
Let Bennett go to court if he wants, Stern becomes at risk for very bad PR if he allows it to continue. It either shows his league allows carpetbagging or that it tolerates lease breaking. But the mayor would be well advised to stand his ground so its not on him.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
Realistically, what else should Mayor Nickels have said? He can’t completely say that he wouldn’t accept a buyout; hypothetically Bennett could offer him a massive amount of money that he simply couldn’t turn down. While that is highly unlikely Nickels has to at least acknowledge that possibility. I think the mayor came as close as he responsibly could (in terms of all his mayoral responsibilities) to saying that he wouldn’t let the Sonics out of the lease.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:30 pm
Go to court against whom? Who would drag him into court? Further, who has the pockets deep enough to bankroll a case against a BILLIONAIRE? IMO, the city of Seattle would balk if it came to that, especially considering the unpopularity of using tax dollars to fund a new arena. Would those same people opposed to a new arena want the city to pay out a bunch of money in legal fees for a case against a team they do not want to even stay at this point? I am having a hard time buying that.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
“Go to court against whom?”
If Seattle doesn’t negotiate. Bennett will sue for the right to break the lease.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
Anyone - was there any mention as to the amount of response Nickels has gotten in regards to this meeting? Specifically, are they acknowledging a portion of the fanbase is asking the Mayor to hold the team to its lease and not accept a buyout?
July 20th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
“If Seattle doesn’t negotiate. Bennett will sue for the right to break the lease.”
I understood that part; my question was what’s in it for the city? Of course, I am a shiate communicator and it may not have come out that way…
July 20th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
What kind of message does it send when Bendick says Auburn is too far out and downtown isnt an option?!?!?!?!?!? At that point his stance has narrowed to almost nothing….And this is a good faith effort?…Pathetic.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
““If Seattle doesn’t negotiate. Bennett will sue for the right to break the lease.”
I understood that part; my question was what’s in it for the city? Of course, I am a shiate communicator and it may not have come out that way…”
Bennett sues and the NBA will be forced to move to avoid a PR disaster. There may be some upfront legal costs from the city. But the lawsuit won’t last long because Stern will want to table it.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
Well he was ok with Renton, and I’m sure he would be more than ok with Bellevue, and he doesn’t mind building downtown as long as the city is willing to implode key arena and build a whole new complex
July 20th, 2007 at 12:45 pm
forced to “act”, not “move”
July 20th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
“So the Mayor doesn’t think he has the hammer to steadfastly keep the team here until 2010.
“Never say never,” when asked if there was a number to buy out of the lease. ”
dude…. WTF.
We are working our ass off to keep this team in town and to hear Nickels wishy-washy, noncommital response… that’s just disheartening.
This is the one card we have against Bennett and looks like Nickels is about to trade it away.
I don’t like this at all….
July 20th, 2007 at 12:53 pm
I really took notice to one letter a poster wrote to Mayor Nickels. I’m not sure who he was but he worked for Immunex. Bennett really needs to get Microsoft and the biotech sector to get behind his cause and provide a place here in the NW where those huge conventions can take place. It would be nice if they were saying, “Yes, we would love to get behind that kind of facility instead of taking those events to other cities.”
July 20th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
“I understood that part; my question was what’s in it for the city? ”
They get to keep a community asset with 40 years of history; Seattle’s first pro sports franchise and its only two franchises to win championships.
If that doesn’t mean anything, they’re going to need an anchor tenant for the rebuild of Seattle Center they’re currently planning. Whatever the politicians are saying in print or in public about Seattle Center and/or KeyArena being fiscally solvent without the team there is pure crap… or at best using shall we say HIGHLY optimistic revenue projections.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
When Nickels was asked if Bennett gave a reason why a rennovated Key wasnt an option? Nickels said ‘No’.
That says quite a bit. Bennett has no reason for rejecting rennovation other than OKC. Why couldnt the Key be rennovated to accomadate the league? Am I missing something?
July 20th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
The thing that I look at from Bennets side is that he purchased a business…not just a sports team. What he is doing is very standard in the world acquisition. Most companies do not in fact buy leases or debts, so he actually took on alot more than the standard investor. Had this been a normal business, he would not have purchased the lease signed by schultz, and schultz would be forced to use his portion of the sale to pay off debts and leases… and only aquired the assets…
So from Bennet’s side, I don’t even begrudge him. He’s in a no-lose situation and the fact that none of the multi-billionaires in this area have stepped up in anyway to help as of yet does speak volumes to what Bennett faces here. I think in terms of ongoing investmnet, he will have even more issues in this area after an arena gets built, like fickle fans, fickel corporate investment, un-supportive media…those things will not change even if the KC event center gets built…
But he’s still the definition of a douchebag.
July 20th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
The one thing I will say about renovation is that I dont believe $200 will make that place a world class facility. Seattle deserves a top notch facility, especially given the broken economic model in the NBA…
The key would have to be gutted, expanded and then rebuilt from the inside out…I think at that point it’s is not a cost-effective option.
Mitch asked Bennett what he would say about investing $200 million into the key… “I’d say it’s a bad investment” and I actually agree with the guy
July 20th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
Menace:
“Are you implying that Kurt Thomas makes one of these guys expendable? Because he doesn’t.
We get cap relief in a year with this move. Period. I’m not excited about two late first round picks or Kurt Thomas. Hopefully keeps Petro off the floor. ”
No, they were already expendable. Before this move I saw Collison, Wilcox, and Swift getting 95 % of the minutes at the 4 and 5. Within three years, it’s likely Green and Durant will be the starting forwards. Hopefully, Swift improves dramatically and he fills out the front court.
What happens to Collison and Wilcox? I could see Thomas coming in starting at center for 15-30 minutes a night. If a positive trade is available then trade either Collison or Wilcox. Allow the one remaining player to achieve his potential getting the proper minutes at power forward.
While I would agree that the 08 draft pick will return a no-frills pick in itself, the two first round picks(not necessarily the specific players) gives the Sonics a lot of flexibility. Impressive moves by Presti and the Sonics!
How do you mean this: “We get cap relief in a year with this move. Period.”?
Obviously not signing Lewis saved money short and long-term. But they added salary, without giving any to Phoenix, by trading for Thomas and the future picks. Am I missing something?
July 20th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
I guess it says alot about a guy willing to buy a business and pull out a 40 year old root ball in the process. He may get it done but he will have to pull mighty hard.
July 20th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
The two stances are thus:
Bennett does not consider the Key to be a viable option, wants to build a King County arena
Nickels does not want Bennett to build a King County arena because it hampers the Key’s revenue.
Bennett won’t budge, Nickels is at lose-lose situation… the only way he gains anything is to accept Bennett’s buy-out.
at least that’s what it seems to me
July 20th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
When Nickels was asked if Bennett gave a reason why a rennovated Key wasnt an option? Nickels said ‘No’.
That says quite a bit. Bennett has no reason for rejecting rennovation other than OKC. Why couldnt the Key be rennovated to accomadate the league? Am I missing something?
He’d have to move to the Tacoma Dome for a season or two. I can understand why he rejected that option.
July 20th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
“Mitch asked Bennett what he would say about investing $200 million into the key… “I’d say it’s a bad investment” and I actually agree with the guy ”
I would also agree that its a bad investment from the standpoint only that its not enuf money. They would probably need 350 mil or more from what Ive read. It may take 100 mil just to demo the old Key. And thats the only way to rennovate that site.
So what if local investors ponied up the other 150-200 mil, i.e. The Muckleshoots. My question then would be: Is investing 350-450 mil into the Key Arena site a good investment?
July 20th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
at least clay clay said on record that if nickels does not accept a buy out, he wont illegally break the lease and just leave in the middle of the night
July 20th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
“Mitch asked Bennett what he would say about investing $200 million into the key… “I’d say it’s a bad investment” and I actually agree with the guy ”
I would too … why would he want to go into business with the City, they’re about the worst business partners imaginable for any kind of venture that size.
In terms of transportation access, parking, 3rd party vendors, nearly everything Seattle Center is a terrible site.
“Nickels does not want Bennett to build a King County arena because it hampers the Key’s revenue.
Bennett won’t budge, Nickels is at lose-lose situation… the only way he gains anything is to accept Bennett’s buy-out.”
Not quite. There’s nothing Nickels can do about a King County arena. That is going to get built in the next decade or so regardless. The City could work on paying off the remaining debt on KeyArena when it gets built.
Where Nickels can broker a compromise is by getting some more private money to the table to talk. as the Mayor he is in a great position to do this. The question is will he lead or continue to let self-serving egomaniacs like Liar Nick and Chris Van Puke lead the dicussion.
July 20th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
“He’d have to move to the Tacoma Dome for a season or two. I can understand why he rejected that option”
With all due respect, that seems like kind of an impatient attitude. 1 or 2 seasons with KD’s Crew in Tacoma seems like a much better option than OKC, if your looking at it from a Sonic fan perspective. While rejecting it is the only option if you are intent on moving the team
July 20th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
“Nickels does not want Bennett to build a King County arena because it hampers the Key’s revenue.
Bennett won’t budge, Nickels is at lose-lose situation… the only way he gains anything is to accept Bennett’s buy-out.”
Not quite. There’s nothing Nickels can do about a King County arena. That is going to get built in the next decade or so regardless. The City could work on paying off the remaining debt on KeyArena when it gets built.
Where will the funding come from?
The Key’s debt will have already been paid off during the time frame you’re talking about. Why would Nickels care about what MIGHT happen 10-20 years down the pike?
July 20th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
Some of the desire for a new arena is about selling opportunities- restaurants, bars, shops. Those could be built into a wing immediately adjacent to the arena and not require a teardown which was done in 95. Not the same as full redo but rennovation and new lease could change Sonics bottomline significantly.
July 20th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
I really wish I knew what was going on behind the scenes here. Nothing said in public can be taken word for word …and any privately funded solutions are rumored to be in the works, but I don’t see any evidence of them. What private money is going to come forward to save the Sonics?
July 20th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
“…and any privately funded solutions are rumored to be in the works, but I don’t see any evidence of them. What private money is going to come forward to save the Sonics?”
I was banking on the Muckleshoots. eesh.
July 20th, 2007 at 1:53 pm
Speaking of business partners, an out of town group without other local business or personal presence appears to offer far less incentive for local businesses to want to partner with them, because, in part, there are less opportunities for meaningful sidedeals with them and mutual support in various levels of local affairs.
July 20th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
Muckleshoots, yeah …still waiting on that. But, who else? All this money in the region and nothing? What about Sabey or Freeman? Are people like that ACTUALLY interested and working behind the scenes to bring together a plan?
July 20th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
“Why would Nickels care about what MIGHT happen 10-20 years down the pike?”
He doesn’t and I never said he did. That’s the point in rebuttal to wit me’s comment that
“Nickels does not want Bennett to build a King County arena because it hampers the Key’s revenue.”
The most dangerous thing in all this that nobody has really brought up is whether Nickels even plans to or cares about running for re-election. Because that’s the only hammer that pro-Sonics voters can hold over his head. If he doesn’t care about running again, and he very well may not, then from his perspective it makes a lot of sense to take the money and run, and let Nick Licata and Van Dyk deal with the political fallout as being the guys who drove the team out of town.
BTW there is still a fair amount of debt left to be paid on the facility even after 2010.
“Where will the funding come from?”
Any proposal to build a facility outside Seattle city limits using State funds will like have to include a provision to pay off any remaining Key Arena debt in order to get the Seattle votes in the Legislature. It’s politics.
July 20th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
anyone think that maybe the whole NBA mafia point shaving deal might have some effect on the entire situation?
i dont think stern needs a big bad villain in clay stealing one of his oldest and most prominent franchises from its home town in the midst of a incident that will already threaten to distance more NBA fans, especially after a Finals that had some of the lowest ratings ever
I think stern and bennett both might be realizing that gaining new NBA fans in new markets might be harder now with this whole point shaving thing going on
It’s obviously in everyone’s best interest to get something done here in the Seattle market, stern knows it, and clay knows it, maybe that is what spawned this whole “i want to speak with city officials right now” deal
July 20th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
I’d say that the point shaving deal doesn’t affect us all that much, other than giving casual fans an opportunity to say, “see! I told you the games were fixed!”
That said, I agree with you that Stern doesn’t want the team to move. It looks bad when an old franchise moves. Not to mention, moving the Grizzlies and Hornets so they could be in “one-sport towns” really, really isn’t working out, so that argument does nothing for Stern either.
July 20th, 2007 at 3:55 pm
Brian: When are you going public with a press release and major public effort to educate about this third-party legal tactic? When this hits the papers, the public will then know that Nickels is in a directly responsible position, and Nickels will know that the public knows this… etc etc.
July 20th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
A couple quick questions. First off IF the Muckleshoots were to come out with a gleaming feasibility study and wanted to build the Sonics a new stadium in Auburn. Who or what could force Clay to take their offer?
My understanding is that the owners have to vote on a franchise move. If someone wants to build you a fat new arena, close to a city where you have been supported for 40 years, that’s kind of hard to turn your back on even if you want to move the team.
Secondly how many sports franchises have moved to significantly smaller markets(just curious)?
With the NBA slipping in TV ratings and fan base in general, I’d think the last thing David Stern would want is a team to go from the 11th largest market to the 42nd largest market. Especially if, and I mean IF you have a group of people wanting to build you a brand new arena.
I love me some Muckleshoots!
July 20th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
as far as the muckleshoots, i doubt the NBA wants to start moving teams onto casino properties in light of today’s big news
if you know what i mean
July 20th, 2007 at 4:44 pm
The “Deal is a Deal” movement is exactly what needs to happen to enhance the chances of the Sonics Staying in Seattle for the long haul. It really is all in Nichols & Seattle Political leaders hands.
It is CLEAR clay wants to move and will not make any efforts to get new traction on a new “First Class Regional Arena”. If that was his vision he would have been working more towards this over the past few months AND he would have called for a meeting not with Nichols with with the GOV & Maybe Ron Sims.
Meeting with Nichols when he says he has ZERO intention of renovating the KEY says loud & clear he wants to begin to posture his postion towards trying to get an early lease buyout.
But he seems to be saying he would not sue to be able to break the lease - which makes sense because NBA owners need to approve a move & this is BAD PR & has big Liability issues for the league & owners.
Bottom Line: The best opportunity to keep the Sonics in Seattle for both the short & long term is simple: REFUSE to agree to any lease buyout. Keep the Sonics here for 3 years & hope for something to change with more time.
One thing at a time in this process: Main thing now > Pressure Nichols & other Seattle political leaders in every way possible to NOT let the Sonics out of their lease early. Very simple.
July 20th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
I’d guess Bennett negotiates with OKC after Nov. 1- initially about a lease beginning in 2010- and eventually adding an agreement in principle to his application to move. When that happens will city of Seattle stand firm on lease? Bennett probably waits to see Board of Governors ruling and fallout from that. Probably too late for last minute new arena offers by then if he gets a yes. Stern likely to be the pivotal figure at the end. If the answer is no Bennett can work within what this region will offer, sell out or challenge Stern and apply again.
July 20th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
I do agree drop step that Stern will inevitably be a huge piece of the picture & he will have alot of influence.
My guess is he will do whatever he thinks is best for the league - screw Seattle if he needs to.
July 20th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
Stern could defer the try to make it work later.
Sonics just moved into Washington Mutual building today. If they want corporate support and help getting more or a naming rights partner or help finding the right finance partner they might be as good a main target as any. The CEO Killinger is also a director of Safeco Corp. and thus aware of / perhaps supportive of value of a naming rights buy and former part Sonics owner / Starbucks right hand guy Orin Smith is a WaMu director.
Greg Maffei now with Liberty Media and a former part owner in last group seems like another good target.
July 21st, 2007 at 9:50 pm
From the beginning Stern has been in favor of the move to OKC unless Seattle ponied up a new arena. He is an old pal of Bennett’s and directed Bennett to buy the Sonics instead of other teams with relocation/arena issues. Stern was rebuffed by the legislature and was pissed off. He would not allow Schultz to sell to a local buyer because then there would be no leverage to force a new arena. By selling to Bennett he knew that there would be a real threat of relocation if no new arena was built. If Bennett gets a new arena, then Stern will let him sell to a local buyer at a huge profit, or keep the team if he wishes. If he sold, Bennett would then be allowed to buy another team and relocate to OKC. If no new arena, then Bennett gets a free ticket to OKC. Although such a move is probably not in the league’s best interest, Stern has never done what is in the league’s best interest. Other owners likely wont block the move because they don’t want to set a precedent of being prevented from using the same tactic to force new arenas in their towns. OKC has been Bennett’s priority from the beginning. He has no interest in Seattle in the long run, which is why he has done little on his own to seek an arena. He expects everyone but himself to put forth the effort, because he is content to move to OKC and be the hometown hero. If a new arena deal gets in place, then he will be happy to sell, but make no mistake about it, he does not want to be a Seattle team owner.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:12 am
Sean, please show me ONE piece of evidence that shows Stern is in favor of this move.
I have seen him tell Clay to shut up when he opines about moving and I have seen him say he wants the teams in Seattle if he got his way. I have not seen anything saying he is in favor of the move.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:57 am
Although such a move is probably not in the league’s best interest, Stern has never done what is in the league’s best interest. Other owners likely wont block the move because they don’t want to set a precedent of being prevented from using the same tactic to force new arenas in their towns.
You make an excellent point, Sean.
There’s been this constant state of denial, thinking that the league couldn’t fathom a move by a team that’s been in a market for 40 years, when really, when it comes to a vote, the owners will only be voting for what best serves their own interests.
July 22nd, 2007 at 9:06 am
Still hard to say how much Bennett had any “understanding” with Stern or how much it as a gamble that something would work out. Stern might have just been happy to see someone give Shultz a fat profit. The league has options and has an easier time waiting and playing the game than everybody else.
Orlando has final vote on arena next week. Several public officials talking about Magic needing to up there offer of upfront cash even further to get their vote.
July 22nd, 2007 at 11:18 am
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sonicscentral.com - We Bleed Green and Gold Blog Archive 2010: A Deal is a DEAL! [...]
July 22nd, 2007 at 11:43 am
Found this story from awhile ago
http://cbs13.com/local/local_story_191194312.html
“The NBA denies it will pay for an arena on its own, but tells CBS13 it is planning to announce a location and financing structure before next season starts.”
Other sites report Las Vegas has started talks with a developer for an arena there. Probably doesnt affect Sonics or Kings directly at this point but might affect Hornets or somebody else and indirectly affect Seattle one way or another.
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:42 am
Kyle-
I do not have any hard evidence on Stern one way or the other. But if you read between the lines on what he has said and done it becomes more clear. Bennet and Stern are old cronies. Stern could have approved the sale of the Sonics to the San Jose group for more money, but they wanted to move immediately and I think Stern wanted to give Seattle at least one more shot to get someting done. By selling to Bennett he could force the arena issue in Seattle, while still allowing Bennett to either turn a large profit in Seattle by selling when the deal got done or move to OKC, which is why he formed his ownership group in the first place. Stern has said Seattle doesn’t seem to want the team. And, although he has said he hopes the team stays and thinks something will get done, he has not stuck his head up in a long time on the issue. He is becoming more vocal on the Sacramento arena deal, but still stays quiet on Seattle’s. Seems like he doesn’t want to mess with his buddy Bennett’s agenda. Like I said before, Stern doesn’t always do what is best in the long term for the league. Ratings are dismal, product quality of play is crap from what it was 20 years ago, and he has moved into lots of small markets with failing teams. But that alone won’t stop him from moving to another small market, which in the short term will be profitable, and is chompin at the bit to fork over tons of cash for a new arena. I really hope something gets done in Seattle. But don’t look for Bennett or Stern to work too hard. The burden is on either local politicians or business interests now and it may be hard to get enough traction behind either.