A BIG WIN!
Posted on Monday, October 29th, 2007 at 4:36 pm by Brian Robinson
Like a Gary Payton to Shawn Kemp Alley Oop this one should fire up the crowd!
A judge today found in favor of the city and the fans and denied the Sonics request for arbitration in breaking their lease. In addition he managed to throw a couple of good quotes into his ruling.
When the history of this battle is written people will realize what big wins “A Deal is a Deal” and this ruling were. They have allowed us as a city to hold the line, fight back against the powers trying to steal our teams.
We opened up a window of opportunity. Ultimately the resolution of this matter will depend on what our elected officials do with that window. Now it is time to turn attention to the longer term matters and ensure that we get a new building for this team.
Great work Tom Carr!!!
I don’t know what happened to the other thread…disappeared
October 29th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
Yes this is awesome news! Speaking of Payton and Kemp, lets get them to show up and celebrate a new Sonics season outside prior to the game with fans!!
October 29th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
I’m guessing at this point, the case will now be in federal court, which will ultimately determine whether or not the specific performance clause is enforceable. Does anyone have any idea when such a case would begin, and how long it might take?
Personally, I hope Bennett retains that legal dream team he assembled to put together the arbitration complaint. If he does, I’m really liking the city’s chances
October 29th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
My understanding is that the backlog for federal court is roughly a year before the initial hearing. Too bad ownership demanded this get moved there….
October 29th, 2007 at 4:43 pm
So glad we finally have some positive news!
Pardon my ignorance, but how is this likely to play out over the next couple of months? Is the most likely scenario for Bennett to file for relocation followed by a lawsuit brought by the City of Seattle? Basically what I don’t quite understand is this: at what point will we know for sure that the team will be around for 2008-09?
October 29th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
Slade Gorton with the lob ahead Carr! He went airborne- defied gravity - laid it down with 2 hands baby!!!!
October 29th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Great news. Small victory in a big fight. I’ll take it!!!
October 29th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
“My understanding is that the backlog for federal court is roughly a year before the initial hearing. Too bad ownership demanded this get moved there…”
That’s excellent news, Brian. Although I think the city will win that case on the merits as well, it never hurts to have the case delayed as long as possible just in case.
With the addition of this news, I’m hoping my new 42″ LCD tv arrives by Wednesday so I can really enjoy the start of this season!
October 29th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
This is fabulous. I was concerned about the move to federal court, but I’m feeling pretty good right now. The arbitration question was murkier than the specific performance question, and given how decisively Judge Martinez ruled against Clay Clay on arbitration, I can’t imagine he’ll rule in his favor on specific performance. Now it’s time to go get a TRO or preliminary injunction to prevent a move during the pendency of the lawsuit.
October 29th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
Can anyone provide a link to the lease agreement? Now that the whole arbitration issue is settled, I want to look over the specific performance language again.
October 29th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
Oh man!
I just want to give Shawn a big hug for that photo!
As well as the judge that managed to scrape this into his ruling (from the second paragraph on Page 7 of the ruling linked above)…
“PBC’s attempt to sidestep Article II and shoot for Article XXVI is as errant as a typical Shaquille O’Neal free throw”
Article II of the contract covers the length of the lease and how to prevent either side from breaking it (and specifically says that there will be no arbitration).
Article XXVI covers how to recover after one of the two parties defaults on the lease (and arbitration is a way of doing so).
Looks like Clay was trying to argue that seeing as they intended to default, they really did need arbitration as a way of handling it.
October 29th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
the more time we have presti and durant in town, the better. seriously, give them three years here and we’ll be western conference contenders at the very least.
jeez i love this team.
October 29th, 2007 at 5:19 pm
EXCELLENT!
October 29th, 2007 at 5:20 pm
Can anyone provide a link to the lease agreement?
This is a link to a PDF of the City’s suit. The lease is included.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2007/09/24/2003899710.pdf
October 29th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
Gotta love this picture of Bennett from the home page of NewsOK.com
http://www.NewsOK.com/
Of course it may be gone by the time many of you see it.
October 29th, 2007 at 5:29 pm
SOS: 1 Oklahomo: 0
Go Sonics!
October 29th, 2007 at 5:49 pm
On top of this news, multiple sources are reporting that KD was a full participant in today’s practice and should be good to go on Wednesday unless he experiences soreness/swelling tomorrow morning. I am so effing stoked for the season.
October 29th, 2007 at 5:59 pm
Great news. I’m glad that I won’t have to cite to Crafts v. Pitts for at least another year if what you indicated about the Seattle federal court backlog is true. They are probably busy with the David Copperfield case right now.
October 29th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
“City Attorney Tom Carr said the city likely will seek depositions and other evidence as part of the discovery process in the case.”
Me likes depositions!!! Let’s get you on record, Clay!
October 29th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
“On top of this news, multiple sources are reporting that KD was a full participant in today’s practice and should be good to go on Wednesday unless he experiences soreness/swelling tomorrow morning. I am so effing stoked for the season.”
link brother??
October 29th, 2007 at 6:48 pm
K-man Says:
October 29th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
“Slade Gorton with the lob ahead to Carr! He went airborne- defied gravity - laid it down with 2 hands baby!!!!
“Gorton’s all over that rebound like a bad suit…he busts out of backcourt, sidesteps Bennett at the circle, he’s on fire to the glass - Oh! A raging right hand windmill slam! Oh my goodness! You have got to love that, baby! You have just got to love all of that! This place is going crazy!”
October 29th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
Here you go, GP: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3085967
October 29th, 2007 at 7:11 pm
“Slade Gorton with the lob ahead to Carr! He went airborne- defied gravity - laid it down with 2 hands baby!!!! ”
all this pseudo- play-by-play only paints one picture in my head. I don’t know why but my randomness commands me to thinkGorton doing a Vince Carter on Bennet like he’s Fredrick Weiz…
“Gorton coming down on a fast break, one man to beat, he jumps.. OH SNAP!!! He jumps over Bennett, teabag him.. oh now he’s hanging on the rim and whipping his shoes off his head…!! Good golly miss molly.”
yeah that’s a pretty disturbing scene
October 29th, 2007 at 7:14 pm
Judge Martinez, with coffee mug in hand: “Soooo Clay, how’s it goin’? Hey, I was just looking over your request for arbitration, and if it’s not too much trouble, I’m gonna need you to just go ahead and show up in court and we’ll take another look at that lease then, alright? So if you could provide a deposition for the City’s attorneys, that would be greeeaaat. Yeeeaaahhh…”
Clay: “Uhhh, but Aubrey and I thought we would…”
Judge Martinez: “Hmmm…yeeeaaahhh, Aubrey…hmmm…you know what Clay - I’m gonna need Aubrey to testify as well, so if you wouldn’t mind, in the meantime, until we get this thing with the depositions and the testimony and the TPS reports figured out, why don’t you just go ahead and make sure the Sonics play all of their next 123 regular season home games at Key Arena, alright? Yeeeaaahhh…thanks, Partner.”
October 29th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
Page 7, line 5: PBC’s attempt to side-step Aritcle II and shoot for Article XXVI is as errant as a typical Shaquille O’Neal free throw.”
The judge even has a sense of humor.
October 29th, 2007 at 7:25 pm
“Gotta love this picture of Bennett from the home page of NewsOK.com”
Dammit, Clay Bennett looks like he was jizzed in the face by a guy who ejaculates lemon juice. That must’ve left a sour, yet mildly tangy taste in his mouth.
October 29th, 2007 at 7:25 pm
Best offseasons:
1. Seattle wins Durant lottery as team sticks around.
2. Boston got Garnett, Allen and perhaps a title.
3. Atlanta couldn’t have dreamed of a better draft.
4. Portland has a ton of potential in Roy, Aldridge and Oden.
5. Bulls movin way up if Kobe jumps to Chicago.
October 29th, 2007 at 7:43 pm
Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Tom Carr…
His quotes are priceless.
City Attorney Tom Carr said the city likely will seek depositions and other evidence as part of the discovery process in the case.
“We’ll want some time. I assume the Sonics will want this decided tomorrow,” Carr said. “I don’t think that’s going to happen.”
October 29th, 2007 at 7:51 pm
This is fabulous news. Oh, and that picture of Clay is priceless as well. What a great day.
October 29th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
great news, great effing news. now we need to figure out how long this process will take, are there any lawyers in the house?
October 29th, 2007 at 8:22 pm
I’m a lawyer. Generally, federal court takes forever. I filed a case in July and just got a trial date in September 2008. With the talk of depositions, etc., this case should drag out at least that long.
That won’t necessarily stop the team from trying to move, though. The City will have to move for a preliminary injunction or temporary restraining order to stop that.
October 29th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
I always try to think of how exactly the league could spin it if they considered granting relocation to a team with a binding lease.
I just can’t come up with anything. I would be stunned if they got permission to move without first having the lease worked out. They would have to defy the city, court, and the league. That would be suicide.
October 29th, 2007 at 9:21 pm
I just hope that this doesn’t cause the people who are supposedly working on arena solutions to slow down because they think they have more time.
October 29th, 2007 at 9:42 pm
Thats my biggest fear Alex. If we do come up with this win and the team is here for the 3 years…….I really hope the wheels keep moving. But can’t you see the city/legislature saying “Cool. We can address this again in a couple of years”. Putting us right back where we are now…….but a couple years later.
Scary to think about, but our leadership tends to work when their backs are against the wall (ie Mariners/Hawks).
October 29th, 2007 at 9:49 pm
Stern on sportscenter with Jeremy Schapp.
October 29th, 2007 at 9:51 pm
Will Denver pull off the triple threat? Loss on Sunday by the Rockies, loss on Monday by the Broncos, loss on Tuesday by the Nuggets? I don’t keep tabs on the NHL so the Avalanche may have lost in this time span as well.
October 29th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
I’m glad to hear this too!
I have the same fears as expressed above too though. We can NOT claim victory and that the team is now here for good. We as fans and the local legislators need to do our parts to keep them here. For us fans that means going to games, writing politicians and spreading the word. For the politicians that means not throwing the arena situation on the back burner again and waiting until its owner tries to move it. Let’s finish this whole thing before things get dicey again!
October 29th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
Will Boston/New England win 3 championships this year?
Pretty sure the Pats can do it.
I’ve only watched the Cs in one preseason game……but they looked pretty good as well. I immediately think they are contenders in the East. Detroit and Jersey will be there too……but I think the big 3 could very well be there in the end if they stay healthy.
October 29th, 2007 at 9:58 pm
Scary to think about, but our leadership tends to work when their backs are against the wall
Let’s just hope they don’t wait until after Bennett announces he’s signed a lease to play in the Ford Center starting in 2009-10. Of course, that may happen a lot sooner than many here think.
Only 2 days until the supposed meaningless deadline…
October 29th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
Sorry, that should read “2010-11″.
October 29th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
Its just a fear of mine. Something that I could easily see happening. The thought of the mayor calling a meeting 2 1/2 years from now with ownership and leading off with a remodeling of Key Arena proposal makes me sick to my stomach.
First things first though. Lets win the small fight. Then keep it moving (the effort…not the team).
October 29th, 2007 at 10:13 pm
BR - You say…
“I always try to think of how exactly the league could spin it if they considered granting relocation to a team with a binding lease.
I just can’t come up with anything. I would be stunned if they got permission to move without first having the lease worked out. They would have to defy the city, court, and the league. That would be suicide.”
I agree - but would also ask … is it possible the NBA/Stern would give the middle finger to everyone and say - “If Clay wants to move we will support him & deal with the lawsuits latter.” It does not make sense to me that they would do this because of the…
1. Legal liability mess
2. Bad PR & Presedent
But could I be missing something here?
This decision today seems to me to say the Sonics are locked in at The Key & in Seattle for 3 more seasons.
October 29th, 2007 at 10:19 pm
I hear you menace.
This is all great news but several of you are right on target in saying this gives us time to take the next big step - get an arena deal done that will be acceptable to a new local ownership group - assuming Clay will reject anything he is offered here because all he really wants to do it take his team to OKC.
But - No new Arena = No Seattle Sonics 4 years from now > & given the time to design, permit, build etc. > NOW is the time to get everything going in the next 3-6 months. I’m hoping something dramatic & specific will be announced by Gregoire in the next 60 days.
October 29th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
“No new Arena = No Seattle Sonics 4 years from now”
That is the bottom line.
No remodels. No renovations. Its new building or bye bye.
October 29th, 2007 at 10:29 pm
“I agree - but would also ask … is it possible the NBA/Stern would give the middle finger to everyone and say - “If Clay wants to move we will support him & deal with the lawsuits latter.” It does not make sense to me that they would do this because of the…”
I don’t think that will happen.
Despite what some people think Stern wants the Sonics to stay. With that said, he wants a new arena here. It goes hand in hand.
October 29th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
YAY!!! Best weekend of my life so far:
-I got married on Sunday
-Sonics make strides to stay in Seattle
My wife (wow) was beautiful and everything is going soooo soooo great :). Life is good….
October 29th, 2007 at 10:48 pm
the next big step - get an arena deal done that will be acceptable to a new local ownership group - assuming Clay will reject anything he is offered here because all he really wants to do it take his team to OKC.
I think we’ll still need Bennett’s cooperation to get this done and I don’t think he’ll sell until he’s already received a new arena deal. He won’t sell at a loss and he’ll need the arena to be able to sell at a profit.
Personally, I think Bennett & Stern have had a deal from day one: Successfully strong-arm Seattle into a new arena (I agree with Menace that this is what Stern truly wants), then Bennett sells to local investors for a profit and OK City gets a new expansion team as a reward. If all else fails, he takes the Sonics. It’s a no-lose scenario for Bennett, imo.
October 29th, 2007 at 10:52 pm
Congrats, Dave!
Here’s marriage tip #1:
Don’t spend your nights (especially during your honeymoon) blogging about the Sonics.
October 29th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
Dick Tate Says:
“Congrats, Dave!
Here’s marriage tip #1:
Don’t spend your nights (especially during your honeymoon) blogging about the Sonics.”
Great line, Tate.
He’s right, Dave - you might wanna wait 7-8 years before you start staying up late blogging. And even then, you’re gonna want a screen name (not “Big Game Dave”) so the Missus doesn’t catch on.
In the meantime, congratulations - and all the best from the Courtsense crew!
October 29th, 2007 at 11:42 pm
Sweet news. Let’s hope for more! Great picture of Shawn Kemp. I just looked at nba.com’s top 10 playoff dunks of all time… guess who is at #1… the RainMan.
I’ve wondered how Clay could possibly save face on all this if he is required to stay in town. The only hope seems to be selling to local ownership as mentioned above. Maybe I’m missing something?
Go Sonics!
October 29th, 2007 at 11:55 pm
Brian “The Lease Enforcer” Robinson said: “I always try to think of how exactly the league could spin it if they considered granting relocation to a team with a binding lease.
I just can’t come up with anything. I would be stunned if they got permission to move without first having the lease worked out. They would have to defy the city, court, and the league. That would be suicide.”
I agree entirely. For all that David Stern has been a hive of inactivity on this of late, there is just no way I see him allowing a team to move while the lease is active. It sets a terrible precedent, and if he ever tries to get a franchise back in Seattle, they’ll remember what the league did to them.
But even if Stern, by some strange twist, actually allows this, it’s still got to be approved by the 29 other owners. And if the Sonics are breaking the lease in the process, I have a feeling it would really light up the eyes of a few of them. Some of them would be looking over their shoulders, some of them would be plotting moves to bigger markets. Not a good thing for the NBA at all.
October 30th, 2007 at 4:20 am
ok great news.i hope this post isnt to late for this thred(that it doesnt get changed tommorrow morning).we NOW need to focus on the poloticians.with all the passionate fans at this site and others we need a program by which we can use our computors for good.is there any computor whiz from this board who can put together a program that contains the email adresses of the legislature and govenour and other vips along with a list of all us fans willing to write emails weekly and coordinate the sending of emails by us to them on a systimatic basis.rotate the recieving politician and send us automated one line emails directing us whom we are to email this week.if we as the fans sit by and simply give over the power to someone else then we have failed.we are not powerless and we can directly impact this process.if we make enough noise we can keep the sonics here for longer then 3 years.its time for we the fans to voice our strength
October 30th, 2007 at 4:40 am
“Personally, I think Bennett & Stern have had a deal from day one: Successfully strong-arm Seattle into a new arena (I agree with Menace that this is what Stern truly wants), then Bennett sells to local investors for a profit and OK City gets a new expansion team as a reward. If all else fails, he takes the Sonics. It’s a no-lose scenario for Bennett, imo.”
I agree, Dick. I think the previous owner was in on it, too. Makes me a little mad that they may get exactly what they want while putting the fans through hell.
October 30th, 2007 at 6:53 am
This is great news Sonics Fans!!! I think we need to give thanks to Brian and his efforts as this has come about as a result of his work on understanding the lease and bringing it to the attention of the public. His daily dedication I am sure has taken it’s toll on him but he continues to fight hard!!! Send him all the Love we can!! Keep up the great work Brian!!
October 30th, 2007 at 7:16 am
Fair enough, I’ll stick to blogging during work hours, lol. She thought it was nice that I was letting my “sonics online guys” know about the big news.
It is prime time for politicians to jump in and get fully and whole-heartedly on board. How likely is it that we hear about a plan for an arena in the center before year’s end? Are they trying to hash out everything behind closed doors?
October 30th, 2007 at 9:03 am
“No remodels. No renovations. Its new building or bye bye.”
Just make sure you don’t let the wording of things get in the way of what’s really happening. If a building is done on Seattle Center it will have to be done as a ‘remodel’ for the purposes of the planning codes as well as financing mechanism but it won’t be ‘a remodel’ it will be a brand new building.
That’s part of the intrinsic problem we keep running into, remodel means many different things in the planning and development world.
October 30th, 2007 at 9:19 am
I need no strokes. I am a lease enforcing, litigating automaton that can do this crap in my sleep. Save your energy for the politicians and give me my kudos after the fact.
We’ll win this fight.
Thanks for the kind words.
October 30th, 2007 at 9:35 am
[...] uo; Grade My Banner
Sonics Aren’t Going Anywhere!
Brian Robinson of SonicsCentral announced yesterday that the city of Seattle will be the Sonics home for at [...]
October 30th, 2007 at 9:37 am
“Let’s just hope they don’t wait until after Bennett announces he’s signed a lease to play in the Ford Center starting in 2009-10. Of course, that may happen a lot sooner than many here think.
Only 2 days until the supposed meaningless deadline… ”
Please explain how Bennett is going to sign a lease at the Ford Center before he applies for relocation and how the league could approve said relocation before the lease is finished.
October 30th, 2007 at 9:53 am
“Let’s just hope they don’t wait until after Bennett announces he’s signed a lease to play in the Ford Center starting in 2009-10. Of course, that may happen a lot sooner than many here think.”
Third party interference with a two party agreement says OKC doesn’t…..
October 30th, 2007 at 10:03 am
I think the previous owner was in on it, too.
I think there’s a good possibility of that as well, Kivman. It would explain Howie’s silence since the sale.
Steve, what would prevent Bennett from signing a lease for 2010-11? The league would be approving relocation for that season, not before, unless of course the city, knowing relocation is inevitable, decides to negotiate an early settlement.
Scott, how would that be interference? 2010-11 is fair game, is it not?
October 30th, 2007 at 10:06 am
This is all great news but several of you are right on target in saying this gives us time to take the next big step - get an arena deal done that will be acceptable to a new local ownership group - assuming Clay will reject anything he is offered here because all he really wants to do it take his team to OKC.
- I think another unspoken requirement is that attendance does not drop off here in Seattle. I’m not saying that it is necessary to suddenly sell out every night. However, if attendance suddenly sinks to the absolute bottom (by a wide margain) due to the lame duck status of the team it could cause focus to be shifted elsewhere. Get your friends and family to attend as many games as possible.
October 30th, 2007 at 10:22 am
If the city/state put together a funding package this session, then it will be VERY hard for David Stern to stay out of the discussion. If Seattle shows that it is ready and that Bennett is stonewalling I would imagine it will be harder for Bennett to get league support.
October 30th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
As many have stated, Clay Bennet and company did not have any intention of keeping the Sonics/Storm here and is in a real win-sin situation for OKC:
Remember the Renton Mayor and her comments about SOS…
We know what side she is on:
Seattle Times: “Contributors to Keolker’s campaign range from Sonics and Storm owner Clay Bennett to the National Women’s Political Caucus to local car dealerships”.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2003975566_elexother0rentonmayor26m.html
“The City alleges that
Bennett made an attempt to submit an arena plan to the 2007 Washington State Legislature,
but that it was guaranteed to fail because it was filed too late in the session and relied on
public subsidies of $400 million compared to a private investment of $100 million”.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/PDF/sonicsruling.pdf
October 30th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
It’s all well and good that the judgements seem to favor keeping the team in Seatle however don’t you think it is just delaying the move. Bennet said that if a deal was not reached by Nov 1st he would move the team. If the courts force him to stay in Seatle it can only be enforced until the end of the lease. and then he Will Move the Team to Oklahoma or somewhere else. Seatle is not going to make this group want to stay and they will leave as soon as they can. This court victory is a bandaid on a gapeing would. Sorry but it would be better if energy was focused on the seahawks who Want to be in Seattle
October 30th, 2007 at 8:03 pm
“Sorry but it would be better if energy was focused on the seahawks who Want to be in Seattle ”
WTF are you saying? The Seahawks aren’t threatening to leave.
October 30th, 2007 at 10:55 pm
Here’s another banner idea for the home games: We ” REFUSE TO LOSE ” our Sonics!!!!!!
October 31st, 2007 at 1:33 am
“WTF are you saying? The Seahawks aren’t threatening to leave.”
Considering he can’t even spell Seattle correctly I don’t think he really knows what he’s talking about.
October 31st, 2007 at 1:43 pm
That was the point, idiots The Seahawks want to be in SEATLE, and I don’t care how you spell it, The sonics are not going to stay past the lease agreement. The Seahawks are not going anywhere because nobody wants them. Oh well enjoy them while you got them because the sonics are leaving the building and there is not a FT you can do about it
October 31st, 2007 at 6:06 pm
derrrr, hey there bubba, errr I mean skyone. I’z like you. We’z should hook up and do some snipe huntin. Watchu thank?
October 31st, 2007 at 8:09 pm
Where was that Kemp photo taken? Kinda looks like Hempfest