What’s the Go-To Play?
Posted on Monday, November 26th, 2007 at 1:22 pm by Xteve
What is this team’s most reliable, high percentage play on offense?
I ask myself questions like this when I watch this team in close 4th quarter situations.
Every team and coach has four or five go-to plays that he can usually rely on in two- or three-possession games. In lieu of a go-to guy these can be plays scripted for the hot hand on the floor, or putting a player in his favorite area of the floor to best utilize his skill set.
What would this play be for the Sonics?
At this point I’d have to say it’s probably Chris Wilcox in the post. Last night we saw San Antonio front the post on multiple occasions, denying the entry pass to take away Wilcox’s post up game. Why? Because it’s damn effective. I wish this team would make more of an effort to start their offense in the post, be it through Wilcox or Durant, because it has to be more efficient than the constant Shammond-ing I’m seeing right now.
This is on both the coaching staff and Chris Wilcox … if CWs defender fronts him, move the ball to the top of the key and then immediately re-post. Force the issue, don’t give up and settle for a poorly thought out 18 footer.
I’ve decided that I’m definitely not a fan of the current run and gun style. If we had players that were more efficient shooters and guys that were willing and able passers it would make more sense, but far too many times I’m seeing players pull up with 18+ seconds on the shot clock and bombing away. That for the most part they are making these shots does not matter, because when they miss oftentimes there is no one in rebounding position, heck there’s no one even close.
Despite its faults this is clearly a very talented basketball team that is losing many games because of poor decision making and wasted possessions. All this group needs to do is play smarter for 5 or 6 more possessions per ball game and they are as good as most teams in the league. Whether or not that message is forthcoming from the coaching staff is something I wonder about, because the lack of discipline on offense is getting a bit tiring to watch. PJ spoke before about reining guys in at some point. I hope the point comes soon, because I believe this can be a better basketball team than we are currently seeing. Last night’s rotation might be one step in that direction … I hope so.
To be clear I don’t think it’s just the lack of an established go-to guy. There are guys on this team that are clearly capable of doing some things very well on offense. What I’m seeing is a consistent lack of execution, ie putting themselves in a position to win games and knowing whom to go to and when in critical or near-critical situations. Are there players demanding the ball in crunch time? And if so, whom?
November 26th, 2007 at 1:49 pm
“Shammond-ing it” CLASSIC!
I agree with most of what was said… It seems like PJ is trying to let them figure out how to win games, while i think we would do better if he was TEACHING them how to win games. If he wants to treat the first 20 games of this season like pre-season thats fine… but if in mid-december we are still playing like we are now, there is something wrong.
I think the run and gun style could be more effective if Luke were around, he has always excelled in the fast break (I think he makes great quick decisions) and if he comes back and starts playing 30+ minutes again, I think that style can work for us…. but right now we look pathetic.
November 26th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
it’s on pj. honestly, he looks like a pretty sucky coach so far. seems like he has no clue and can’t figure anything out
November 26th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
Wilcox has been our most reliable option. I agree with reset-repost, but probably only a set amount of times (called by PJ depending on circumstance) and then going with the continuation which should be the staggered double screen to free the wings for an open jumper.
November 26th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
“Shammond-ing it” is right…There has to be a better play in the playbook than “set up an isolation”. And yeah, it has to be on PJ to sort things out.
November 26th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
Our go to play in the final minute is turnover.
November 26th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
“if CWs defender fronts him, move the ball to the top of the key and then immediately re-post.”
Wrong.
If CW’s defender fronts him you flash your other big to the top of the key, Chris seals and your other big enters from there. Collison did this once last night but they never tried it again.
Where I’ve seen the biggest problem is that we’re not countering to the other teams adjustments at this point. We stick with teams fine in the first half for hte most part, they adjust at half and by the time we adjust to thier counter we’re down 10-15 points. Partially its on the staff for not anticipating some of the adjustments to be made but a lot of it has just to do with the youth of the team and the lack of a true 1.
November 26th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
“Shammond-ing it” HA! awesome line.
It was awesome watching Durant take Manu to school last night. You are exactly right, we need to see where the mismatches are and exploit them. Last night it was Manu and Bowen on Durant. Durant just abused them. I felt Durant could’ve had 6-8 points easily in the post against Manu, yet they only went to him once? It’s either the player’s basketball IQ or P.J’s strategy that is in question.
November 26th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
At some point, somebody like Earl Watson or Delonte has got to say “Ok Kevin, you’re dominating Manu, try and work for the ball down-low on him.”
November 26th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
Last night we lost on crucial plays defensively, i.e Wilcox dropping a rebound outta bounds; Bonner being able to tip an offensive rebound over Wilcox to a teammate; Durant fumbling the ball outta bounds after being double teamed, etc.
Just seems like we struggle to keep our composure when defenses tighten up.
November 26th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
What’s the Go-To Play?
Damien Wilkens, ISO, top of the key, MONEY baby!
November 26th, 2007 at 2:42 pm
Seriously though,
I think other teams so far this year have played down to our level and then turned it on in the 4th quarter.
That is why we are losing IMHO.
November 26th, 2007 at 2:48 pm
I think in reality this season we are a get well game to the 29 other teams. The injured players will target us as the game to make their return, star players on the other teams will take nights off with “back spasms”, and the opponents will play cat and mouse with us for the first 3 quarters. Eventually though these players will learn to play together and then watch out because then it will be payback time.
November 26th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
I think other teams so far this year have played down to our level and then turned it on in the 4th quarter.
I think there’s some truth to that. I also think this season is going to get much worse before it gets better. The competition will soon be rounding into mid-season shape while the Sonics are still trying to get their shit together.
November 26th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
Our go to play in the final minute is turnover.
- I thought our final play was Earl dribble the ball for 16 seconds…pass to Damien where he dribbles for 4 seconds and then drives to the hoop and shoots the ball off the side of the backboard…seen that a few times.
- What do people think of Wilcox’s ability to pass out of the post? I think one thing the coaching staff might be worried about, is if they focus on the post game too much Wilcox will not be able to make the right pass when teams start to adjust and double him.
November 26th, 2007 at 3:18 pm
PJ’s rotation is horrible! I’ve been saying that for awhile, the Sonics do pretty good against these dominant teams and PJ decides to throw in Nick Collison against Tim Duncan and all of the sudden the Spurs get up by 10! The lineup of Thomas, Wilcox and Wally were playing pretty well but ofcourse PJ had to pluck them out and by the time they came back it was too late. The losing is getting old, I’m tired of being on the edge of my seat at the key and only to leave disappointed. Is OJ Mayo really worth it? The Sonics will still be pretty damn young if they are trying to win the lottery.
November 26th, 2007 at 3:25 pm
It appears to me that the Sonics do a relatively solid job on free throws (11th in the NBA at 0.770 or 77%) and I would draw up a play to attempt to get us to the line (easier said than done). Therefore, I’d put my best offensive unit (minus West who’s shooting 55% from the line) in and draw up a play that opens up one of our wings (Durant, Wilkins, or Szczerbiak) of a screen (Colision, Green, Thomas, or Wilcox) where I see one of three scenarios.
1) If they (the defense) jump the screen on for our wing then have the wing dump it to the roller and hope to get a layup or catch the defense rotating late and draw a foul.
2) If they sag off the ball handler, then swing it back up top and have my big either flash to the high post and hope to hit a cutter. That or I’d have trust my wing to bury an open jumper (which we don’t seem to be doing consistently in the 4th quarter of games).
3) If the screen works, I’d hope my wing would take it hard to the rack and either get to the line or stuff home a jam.
Grant this only works if you need 2 points or if you have enough time to get a quick two and foul. I’m no coach and I’m sure this concept of a play is flawed, but I’d like to know what you guys think.
November 26th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
The supes problem all along has been the philosphy on the offense. The game has always been about scoring more points. Thats how teams win. The lineup down the stretch should be:
C: wilcox
PF: collison/thomas
SF: durant
SG: wally z/wilkens
PG: west
This lineup has 3 players that can shoot the J or the 3, and two players who can post up and rebound. I say make wilcox a priority to get his post game going as mentioned and then have him kick it back out to either west, wally or durant on the primeter. They can pass it along the primeter, drain the open three or drive. I say try to rain 3’s on teams and score in bunches. These sets will make our offense more potent. All this dribbling and all this one on one offense and everyone taking their turn in heaving up shots is inefficent and turnover prone and will be the reason why they’ll continue to lose down the stretch.
November 26th, 2007 at 3:30 pm
How many years and how many coaches did it take for Chicago to rebuild? It took them what about 8 years before they got back to the playoffs?
Portland started rebuilding 4 years ago? That means we are 4 years behind Portland. Although we have 2 very good pieces. Portland has Roy, Oden, Aldridge, I’d say we are a little behind Portland, not too much.
Rebuilding sucks, many people have been asking for it for years. Now we have to live through it. It is still better than getting bounced in the first round every year, or worse missing by one game and still picking about #11 or so every year in the draft.
I’ll take mine on the rocks please.
November 26th, 2007 at 3:32 pm
Another thing figure out your starting lineup and your bench and stick to it, all this subing in and switching things around and changing the lineup each game is making it even more complicated. How can you begin to find the weaknesses of this team with all that chaos going on. I’m glad PJ has all the latitude in the world to experiment but get a f..king clue. Just cause they suppose to suck doesn’t mean you aim to suck. Really folks it doesn’t take that long to figure out how to run a team. The guy is a nut job.
November 26th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
Has PJ done enough to merit the nickname “Bob 3″?
November 26th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
“Another thing figure out your starting lineup and your bench and stick to it, all this subing in and switching things around and changing the lineup each game is making it even more complicated.”
How has Luke’s injury affected the PG rotation?
How has Kurt, Rob and Johan’s injuries affected the C rotation?
November 26th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
mojojuee said: “Our go to play in the final minute is turnover.”
It does take the pressure off whomever would have had to shoot.
November 26th, 2007 at 3:58 pm
All the guys you’ve mentioned are role players. So who cares about their injuries,.
The lineup I’ve suggested utilitzes our best offensive players to win games
November 26th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
Watching the games this year, our ball handling is horrible. This is one of the reasons that we are having a difficult time at the end of games. Teams put on the pressure and we get stripped going to the basket or lose the ball one of many ways in a double team.
Our guys won’t get reach in calls until they stop dropping the ball and throwing it away on their own.
I like Delonte West, but he is not a PG. At the end of the 3rd quarter on Friday, I knew he was going to shoot it with 14 ticks left on the clock.
Our other problem is at the end of the game we have no true NBA level #1 option.
November 26th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
Watching the games this year, our ball handling is horrible. This is one of the reasons that we are having a difficult time at the end of games. Teams put on the pressure and we get stripped going to the basket or lose the ball one of many ways in a double team.
Our guys won’t get reach in calls until they stop dropping the ball and throwing it away on their own.
I like Delonte West, but he is not a PG. At the end of the 3rd quarter on Friday, I knew he was going to shoot it with 14 ticks left on the clock.
Our other problem is at the end of the game we have no true NBA level #1 option.
November 26th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
“The lineup I’ve suggested utilitzes our best offensive players to win games”
It also might be the worst defensive lineup in the history of the NBA.
November 26th, 2007 at 4:13 pm
And how about posting Jeff Green? The guy is pretty effective. And you also have Wilcox and Durant who have shown the ability to score in that position. All three of them should be getting touches in the post all game long.
November 26th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
“Wrong.
If CW’s defender fronts him you flash your other big to the top of the key, Chris seals and your other big enters from there. Collison did this once last night but they never tried it again.”
Yeah, that’s even better. I do wish they’d try and keep the ball at the top of the key more though. I see them getting into trouble a lot trying to dribble on the wings or sidelines. Typically that’s a tough place to make an entry pass or create offense so not sure why guys like Delonte, Damien and Earl keep dribbling to that spot. Not to harp on Earl even more than I already have today but he has also developed the dumb habit this year of picking up his dribble under pressure, which drives me absolutely insane.
November 26th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
I second the notion that posting up Durant should be our first option (unless he’s being guarded by a guy with comparable length like Rudy Gay/AK47). He showed against Ginobili and in the summer league that he has a pretty diverse and effective post-up game. He can hit the fadeaway, go up and under, and spin in both directions. He’s also shown a knack for getting to the line. I think posting up will be his bread and butter in a few years. Right now he’s going to force some bad shots and turn the ball over, but I still prefer going to him over Wilcox in late-game situations - mainly because I have more confidence in his basketball IQ and ability to hit clutch FTs.
November 26th, 2007 at 5:30 pm
Maybe Green would be the better guy to post up, because his low post skill are much more refined.
“Jeff Green is considered a face-up 4/3, but he is dangerous as a low-post threat. He patiently works to get his hook shot off, and he has great hands. Better yet, he has a nose for the ball and is very comfortable making plays in traffic. This kid is worthy of his top-five selection.”
- D. Thorpe, ESPN Analyst - 11/21/07
Furthermore, Durant would be too easily pushed off the low post due to this razor thin stature. This is not to say that he’ll never be a post option, but not now and not in a clutch situation. I’d rather take my chance with Green in the post or running a pick and pop with Durant and Green.
November 26th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
I like Green in the post too. The problem is that he’ll almost always be defended by a taller player. He forced up some God-awful looking running hooks over Duncan/Oberto last night. I haven’t seen enough of Durant in the post to say with conviction that he’s our best option; but I think he deserves more looks.
Eventually, the two-man game with KD & JG (whichever one has a mismatch will take the entry pass from the other) is going to be very tough to guard.
November 26th, 2007 at 5:42 pm
And here’s me thinking that if CW’s defender fronts him, the play is to lob it to Durant, who ghosts in off the far wing, catches the rock in mid-air and throws it down over two defenders with the foul for the game.
Right?
November 26th, 2007 at 5:55 pm
I agree with the above.
I wonder, however, have we seen a coach who we like in Seattle … ever? From Karl, PW, Nate, Bob and Bob and now P.J. I don’t think there is a person on this board, myself included, who hasn’t found each one of them infuriating with lineup shuffles, absence of set rotations, etc.
At some point we have to recognize a pattern. And it probably has a lot to do with the constant absence of a dependable big man.
Right now, I just favor stability and growth.
November 26th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
Does constantly shuffling the lineup count as stability?
November 26th, 2007 at 6:14 pm
After reading all of these insightful and well thought out posts, I have an opinion about the way to deal with this season of Sonics basketball.
I believe it is best expressed in a song:
I …am comfortably numb.
November 26th, 2007 at 6:16 pm
My post has disappeared 3x. So, now I give a short version.
Ball handlling, passing and consistent jumpshooting are not changed overnight. These are the biggest of the sonics problems offensively. It does not matter what sets and plays you run if you dribble the ball off your foot, get stripped, throw the ball away or miss the open jumpshot.
The wing is the proper place to make an entry pass into the post.
The team has a number of guys who can be the man on a particular night but no one who is “The Man.” This will continually be a problem for this team.
November 26th, 2007 at 6:29 pm
“Does constantly shuffling the lineup count as stability? ”
You guys can’t have it both ways. You want the coach to figure out who can play and with whom but you want a static line up too?
Come on. I have seen a number of combinations out there and none of them are all that fantastic. That said, the Center, Power forward and shooting guard postions have been set for a while, although a healthy Swift and Ridnour would possibly alter that.
Most of our players are not that good(mostly back-ups) so the coach has to make game by game decisons based on matchups.
November 26th, 2007 at 6:29 pm
I have always contended that the ability to hit three-point shots and even the one-on-one three point shot is what wins many games in the NBA. Many of Ginobli’s threes were simply one-on-one “I’m better than you” three-pointers. The Sonics lost yesterday’s game because they could not compete with the Spurs from the three-point line. When the opponent hits seven more threes while shooting less than twice the number that you shot, you’ll lose almost every time. I would like to see the Sonics attempt more shots beyond the arc or sell-out on defending the long-ball. My eyes are telling me the Supes are being decimated from beyond the arc by their opponents. I welcome any stats that would support or refute my proposition.
November 26th, 2007 at 6:32 pm
“This is on both the coaching staff and Chris Wilcox … if CWs defender fronts him, move the ball to the top of the key and then immediately re-post. Force the issue, don’t give up and settle for a poorly thought out 18 footer. ”
Please, they do not have any go to guys right now, so how can they have a go to play?
Enjoy the young kids and watch them grow little by little and I will see you at the draft lottery in April. It is what it is.
November 26th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
This eloquent post is courtesy of our friends at http://www.poundingtherock.com/
“Nancy boy Allen is there so that bit of sick fun is forevermore behind us, but I’m sure we’ll come up with all sorts of similarly derogatory things to say about the NBA’s next overhyped superduperstar, Kevin Durant. Surely we’ll squash him like a bug as he’ll be unable to so much as get a shot off against the impenetrable Bruce Bowen.”
I didn’t realize that getting kicked in the back made Ray Allen a “Nancy boy.” Spurs fans (who were barely in the top ten in terms of attendance last season) may be suffering from the side effects from the Riverwalk.
November 26th, 2007 at 6:46 pm
Durant is always option #1 and Wally can obviously shoot with the best in the league. Green and West are nice counter-punches, while Wilcox is always lurkin in the shadows for the knockout blast.
November 26th, 2007 at 7:02 pm
“Please, they do not have any go to guys right now, so how can they have a go to play?”
What, it’s too tough to figure out that Wally Szczerbiak was the hot hand last night and draw up a play for him? It ain’t rocket science Producer.
November 26th, 2007 at 7:20 pm
It is when you’re going up against the Spurs with limited options.
SAN ANTONIO HEAD COACH GREGG POPOVICH:
On Szczerbiak:
He was great. He’s a tremendous scorer. He’s a competitor and I think he basically surprised us in the first half. I don’t think anyone was expecting him to go off like that but I thought Bruce (Bowen) was fantastic in the second half and decided that was going to stop.
http://www.nba.com/sonics/news/quotes071125.html
November 26th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
Alex, Sonics are currently 29th on 3 pt attempts, 27th on makes and 15th on 3pt FG%.
Sonics opponents are 2nd on attempts, 3rd on makes and tied for 5th on 3 pt FG%.
November 26th, 2007 at 7:27 pm
Ah, the joy of trying to play the zone in the NBA.
November 26th, 2007 at 7:37 pm
Yep. Sonics opponents went from 6.5 makes a game last season to about 8 right now.
Sonics on offense went from 6.5 3 pt makes on average last season to under 5. When Ray & Rashard were healthy it was about 8.
Double whammy.
They don’t have any volume 3 pt makers on average right now. 4 guys (Durant, Wilkins, West and Wally) make 1 a game give or take a bit. If a couple of them picked it up to 2 that would address the offensive issue.
November 26th, 2007 at 7:45 pm
The problem with Durant being “the” go to guy is that he is that he is leading the team in turnovers and has the 5th lowest shooting percentage on the team. He has the talent and will be the man on some nights but is not ready to be option #1 every night.
November 26th, 2007 at 7:55 pm
The 3’s on “O” are not the biggest problem. The team is scoring enough points. The Sonics need timely baskets. They need to be able to score when it counts.
We don’t shoot more three’s because we are not good at shooting them. I think we would be better off figuring how we can get to the line more. The solution to that wold be the opposite of shooting more treys.
Defensively we are paying for having 3 non-productive first round centers. I am not hating on any of the 3. I think all of them have a chance to be productive NBA players at some level, but right now getting 0 production from them is killing the team. We have no shot blocking, big body presence. This is why we pack the paint and let teams shoot 3’s. Otherwise they go to the lane and get lay ups or trips to the free throw line.
November 26th, 2007 at 8:25 pm
Petro & Sene option pickups were typical GM moves. Maybe Presti gets value out it (one way or another) but in a year or two if he hasn’t that will be on his mistake list.
November 26th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
PJ mentioned wanting to get 20 minutes a night out of Kurt Thomas and that is roughly what it has been so far. Either Collison gets the rest or for Petro, Swift, Sene to get some Collison would have to see a cut or Thomas does not get a full 20 or somebody shifts and gets some time at PF crowding Green’s time there down. Or Wilcox’s time is cut.
Nick’s time is in fact down 5 minutes in last few game but that maybe more by foul trouble than design. Collison tied for 6th in league in fouls committed. Thomas fouling at same rate in less minutes. Petro Swift Sene even higher per minute. Green a little less, Wilcox 40% less.
Most of them are probably fouling too much. I am sure it is a real tough judgment call but they don’t look like they are making the right calls enough by the amount of fouls and the still high FG% and scoring allowed. The perimeter is porous so again it is hard to know exactly how much blame each should get but there is plenty to go around. Including to the coaches for the wrong balance of design / instructions / defensive play calls or for not getting it followed accurately yet.
Not room for all these guys to play or play enough to get in groove or get better. Choices for those paid to be experts to make.
November 26th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
Petro and Sene contract pick ups are not a big deal one way or another. The contracts are still cheap rookie deals. $1.9 and $2.2M for the contracts. You are going to pay to have big men, even if they are at the end of the bench.
November 26th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
Yes I agree it isnt a big deal by itself and might not be overall but team only gets so many options for change a year and it passed on exercising that option in these cases. They will likely be a part of bench here next year regardless of their results this year. Will it work out? We’ll see. Could they have chosen different and done better? We won’t “know” completely but we’ll be able to speculate later.
You have to pay too many benchwarmers these days under the CBA but you could have had the option of trying different ones- free agents, draftees, NBDL, or euro vet imports. Sonics have 9 firm contracts for next season and who know how many of the others they will keep. But 1-2 more slots might have helped address needs (different from this season’s experiment), allowed keeping more of the many draft picks (instead of selling some) and stay at 14 (or 15) on roster.
November 26th, 2007 at 10:01 pm
Petro and Sene are signed. What if they run out of spots and some combo of Gelabale West Swift Wilkins even Thomas don’t return, in part due to lack of enough roster spots with however many draftees added? Will another year of Petro or at least one more of Sene be worth it compare to the other options?
November 26th, 2007 at 10:10 pm
I’d like to keep 2-3 from draft probably. 9 + 2 0r 3 = 11 or 12. Do that and stay at 14 spots filled at least two of Gelabale West Swift Wilkins Thomas have to be let go for nothing (if all things stay the same between now and then), maybe 3.
If they are willing to go to 15 next year one more player from any source can be added.
If you want to keep another of these 5 vets without going to 15 you have to drop the number taken from the draft. Taking only 1 from draft would be a disappointment. (2 is ok. 3? Depends on what they think of the class.) Having it come to that to keep Petro or Sene? I’ll wait n see but I think it is not as clear cut smart or acceptable as it might seem on its own.
November 26th, 2007 at 10:31 pm
Our go to play is the “dribble hand off” to either wing.
November 26th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
“What, it’s too tough to figure out that Wally Szczerbiak was the hot hand last night and draw up a play for him? It ain’t rocket science Producer.”
My point, he was hot last nite (for stretches) so that is a situational option, but surely you do not think he is an everyday go to option?
November 26th, 2007 at 11:24 pm
Call me old fashion, but I think if you’ve made the determination that Kevin Durant is the future of your franchise you kinda make him your number one option by default and call it a learning process.
At this point Producers right when its said that this team doesn’t have a number one option in the traditional sense. But like other teams who’ve built themselves around young stars (Cleveland, Denver, Orlando (McGrady)) those teams developed as their youngsters became capable of being the main guys. For short stints we may have other guys who get hot, and when they do we should ride them.
Kevin is who this team is centered around and when he fails we have to have the confidence to give him another shot, it’ll make his future successes that much sweeter.
November 27th, 2007 at 1:24 am
As far as roster spots go, I think they will be fine with adding one vet and 2 draft picks. To do that 2 of the following players would have to be not resigned: Swift, West, Thomas, Gelly, Wilkins. Wilkins has a player option.
Also, signing those players helps if we want to use them to balance out a trade in terms of prospects we give. My hope would be for a trade that would allow us to get a vet for multiple pieces. I’m also sure that the FO feels the same way.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:09 am
“All this group needs to do is play smarter for 5 or 6 more possessions per ball game and they are as good as most teams in the league.”
This is either just too optimistic or just plain ridiculous.
November 27th, 2007 at 9:15 am
mcwalter44 ; i am not sure why west is shooting 55% from the free throw line. last year with boston he had the 2nd highest average (after wally) and he had no problem hitting clutch free throws at the end of game situations. maybe its the lack of consistant playing time, loss of confidence. either way I am sure it will improve.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:06 am
I agree with scott..if durant is going to be the future of the sonics then he the number 1 option when its crunch time. I think if they put him in the post or even iso for him let him make the decision.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:21 am
“As far as roster spots go, I think they will be fine with adding one vet and 2 draft picks. To do that 2 of the following players would have to be not resigned: Swift, West, Thomas, Gelly, Wilkins. Wilkins has a player option.”
It will be extremely difficult to only add 2 players, while having 6 draft picks(2 first and 4 second rounders) in next years draft.
Though, it think Presti will be really busy during next years draft, as he’s got quite some trading chips in those 4 2nd rounders, the Suns pick, Wilcox and Wally’s expiring contract, and next years team probably won’t look all that much like this years.
As far as the players you’ve listed go.
I think only West stands a chance of being on this team next season, but i’m not even sure about him anymore.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:22 am
I meant Swift and West standing a chance to be on next years team….
November 27th, 2007 at 10:56 am
It is kind of strange that all has gone quiet with the Arena situation. We have not heard of court dates for the lawsuit or anything. I was even expecting to hear that the NBA had formed a relocation committe to look at the Sonics move but even that has not happen. Have not heard anything about potential local buyers or even a new arena. I am sure things are happening but it is just strange to have it all go quiet like this!!
November 27th, 2007 at 11:01 am
i would like to see west remain with the sonics next year (he is only 24 yrs old with alot of upside) but there are a # of teams that have expressed interest in him.. phoenix, lakers, cleveland
November 27th, 2007 at 11:50 am
I wonder, however, have we seen a coach who we like in Seattle … ever? From Karl, PW, Nate, Bob and Bob and now P.J. I don’t think there is a person on this board, myself included, who hasn’t found each one of them infuriating with lineup shuffles, absence of set rotations, etc.
- I always liked George…sure he had temper tantrums, but I always felt his heart was in the right place. You can’t argue against his results and/or his passion for the game of basketball. You might as well add KC Jones and Bernie Bickerstaff to your list as well…
November 27th, 2007 at 12:30 pm
Luke back = miraculous growth in crunch time scoring ability.
Just IMHumbleO.
November 27th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
Thomas and Wally have value to teams that are in the hunt late in the year. I would hope we could trade one or both in the next couple months for a veteran PG and picks. Throw in a Petro, Gelabale or Sene to make the numbers work and reduce the head count. Then we can package two low first round picks for one higher pick and move up in the first round for a youngster we want. Unfortuanately, it is going to take several years for these guys to mature into a competitive team.
November 27th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
That would be very miraculous.
November 27th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
fyi- Steve’s specific question as thread title gets it picked up in the notes on truehoops.com today
November 27th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
PJ has used about 100 different 5 man lineups
Collison, Nick - Durant, Kevin - Thomas, Kurt - West, Delonte - Wilkins, Damien for 113 minutes or about 8 minutes a game. No other lineup for more than 27 minutes total. Very hard to evaluate lineups that way.
Even 2 and 3 man on the court data is real small right now.
November 27th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
Almost 700 minutes played. If you were real discipled about lineups you could have checked at least one other lineup for 100+ minutes for comparison and perhaps several others for 50+ in same timeframe. I know PJ is trying to win games not run an experiment but really if this season is mainly about learning maybe they need to give more attention to running the experiments, getting the data, evaluating it and making decisions off of it.
Of course there is plenty of season left but if they do what they have done so far they’ll end up having checked about 10 lineups for 100+ minutes and the rest will be real small samples.
100 minutes = equivalent to 2 games if they played the whole way. In entire season to gather 2 games worth of minutes for evaluation and making multi-million dollar, multi-year decisions.
About 4000 minutes in a season they could try to test twice as much to a level of minimum adequacy: 10 lineups for 200 minutes or 20 variations for 100 minutes if they really concentrated on it.
The ones they are on pace to test for 100 miuntes are
Collison, Nick - Durant, Kevin - Watson, Earl - Wilcox, Chris - Wilkins, Damien
Durant, Kevin - Swift, Robert - Watson, Earl - Wilcox, Chris - Wilkins, Damien
Durant, Kevin - Thomas, Kurt - Watson, Earl - Wilcox, Chris - Wilkins, Damien
Collison, Nick - Durant, Kevin - Ridnour, Luke - Wilcox, Chris - Wilkins, Damien
Durant, Kevin - Green, Jeff - Watson, Earl - Wilcox, Chris - Wilkins, Damien
Collison, Nick - Durant, Kevin - Green, Jeff - Watson, Earl - Wilkins, Damien
Collison, Nick - Durant, Kevin - West, Delonte - Wilcox, Chris - Wilkins, Damien
Durant, Kevin - Green, Jeff - Szczerbiak, Wally - West, Delonte - Wilcox, Chris
Durant, Kevin - Green, Jeff - West, Delonte - Wilcox, Chris - Wilkins, Damien
So all Durant lineups. Not quite everyone gets even one test slot. Some one, some several.
Not that satisfactory a set of test data to base the franchise’s future off to me. But good luck with guys.
November 27th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
Wilkins in all but one. Of course that could change.
If you are thinking about going forward with or without Wilkins I’d think you’d want more non-Wilkins test lineups.
Wilcos in all but 2- same deal.
I’d prefer they look at 20 lineups for at least 100 minutes if possible to see a few more combos not shown.
November 27th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
Whoah! You sure your name’s not Hal 9000? Pretty impressive PT breakdowns Crow.
November 27th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
WRT speculating on who will be gone by opening day of 2008, here are my hunches.
Damien - scores a multi-year mid level exception type deal with some team
Thomas - either traded to a contender before the season’s over or not resigned next year
Szczerbiak - traded next offseason
Ridnour - traded next offseason once he’s no longer BYC player
Watson - traded
Gelebale - signs with another club this offseason
There will be plenty of roster spots available next year. Hopefully, the Sonics can get in on the annual “star who’s unhappy with the current situation” or the “team who suddenly needs to rebuild” action next offseason as they will have more chips to play with.
November 27th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
You will see many players over 1000, 2000+ minutes for the season total. But basketball is a team game and you want to see how players play together.
But reality check, looking back at the past I see the past coaches here in last 5 years have all needed up with 7 or less lineups for 100 minutes. And it is also true for the other teams I checked. So I guess PJ is not unusual compared to that pattern. But I still think it is way too low, given the ability to do more, especially for this situation.
November 27th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
“This is either just too optimistic or just plain ridiculous.”
Check the numbers. It’s not. 8-10 fewer points given up off turnovers or blown rotations each game and this club is a .500 team. That’s how thin the margin is between winning and losing some of these games.
November 27th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
“fyi- Steve’s specific question as thread title gets it picked up in the notes on truehoops.com today ”
Ah cool, thanks for the heads up Crow. I’ll have to send Henry a thank-you note.
November 27th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
Good one Balloholic. Thanks to the extent it was a compliment.
Jeremy you might be right on most of those. But then is next season “starting from scratch part 2″? And what about the next after that? If it goes that way will year 3 or 4 of the rebuild get relabelled “year 1″?
November 27th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Sure Steve. I know some of us strayed from the specific question but that isn’t unusual.
November 27th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
“Check the numbers. It’s not. 8-10 fewer points given up off turnovers or blown rotations each game and this club is a .500 team. That’s how thin the margin is between winning and losing some of these games.”
A margin of 8-10 fewer points doesn’t seem that thin to me.
November 27th, 2007 at 2:25 pm
Last post was in regard to Steve’s comment:
“Check the numbers. It’s not. 8-10 fewer points given up off turnovers or blown rotations each game and this club is a .500 team.”
November 27th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
Crow,
I am expecting at least 1 blockbuster trade to bring in a 3rd piece of the core and additional moves to bring in players who fit the system better.
I’d be foolish to try to guess who that blockbuster deal will return, but as I’ve said before, the package of Wilcox, Szczerbiak who are both expiring contracts, and maybe a draft pick is a strong package to a team looking to rebuild or trade an unhappy player.
I think the team has been essentially blown up with the trade of Lewis and Allen. From here, they need to continue building the core and add some complementary pieces which will be able to play in this system.
November 27th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
“You have to pay too many benchwarmers these days under the CBA but you could have had the option of trying different ones- free agents, draftees, NBDL, or euro vet imports. Sonics have 9 firm contracts for next season and who know how many of the others they will keep. But 1-2 more slots might have helped address needs (different from this season’s experiment), allowed keeping more of the many draft picks (instead of selling some) and stay at 14 (or 15) on roster.” {Crow}
The NBA should expand the league by adding 6 new teams (e.g., Cincinnati, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Pittsburgh, Saint Louis, San Diego); however, the roster size of every ballclub ought to be simultaneously consolidated by having just 12 roster spaces — with 2 guys inactive each game — as that’d prevent a dilution of talent.
November 27th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
One bad stretch a game probably does keep many a low ranking team from .500 record and a big part of the way they get good is to eliminate that lapse. But 8-10 points is a lot night in, night out.
In general a +4 team wil win 60+% while a -4 team will win under 40%.
At -9, right now Sonics project to 17 wins but the differential can still change quite a bit and so can the winning.
November 27th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
Scott, good analysis on the counter action with Wilcox/Collison.
Durant made a point of noting he got good screens last game where he shot so well. Hope they plan to milk that type of play as much as possible.
PJ praised him for faking a move then passing to exploit the weakness exposed by the defensive reaction too. More of that too please Kevn & PJ.
Maximize the good x & o stuff.
November 27th, 2007 at 3:43 pm
Damien isn’t a FA this year is he?? Man that would make me very happy…
November 27th, 2007 at 3:44 pm
Damien has a player option at the end of the year. If he keeps going like he is, there’s no way he’ll stick around for another season of 3 mil.
November 27th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
The following is a three-team trade proposal that involves the Indiana Pacers, the Los Angeles Lakers, and the Seattle Supersonics.
FROM INDIANA
PF Jermaine O’Neal ($19,728,000)
C David Harrison ($1,734,316)
FROM LOS ANGELES
PF Lamar Odom ($13,302,516)
C Kwame Brown ($9,075,000)
FROM SEATTLE
C Chris Wilcox ($6,500,000)
PG Luke Ridnour ($6,500,000 Incoming Value & $3,250,000 Outgoing Value) [Base Year Compensation Player]
TO INDIANA
PF Lamar Odom ($13,302,516)
C Chris Wilcox ($6,500,000)
PG Luke Ridnour ($6,500,000 Incoming Value & $3,250,000 Outgoing Value) [Base Year Compensation Player]
TO LOS ANGELES
PF Jermaine O’Neal ($19,728,000)
C David Harrison ($1,734,316)
TO SEATTLE
C Kwame Brown ($9,075,000)
http://realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=4309449
That, in conjunction with trading Earl Watson and Damien Wilkins to the Miami Heat for Jason Williams, would be fiscally prudent transactions for the Supersonics.
As it stands at this moment in time, the Supersonics lack the financial flexibility to present restricted free-agents — such as Emeka Okafor, Andris Biedrins, Josh Smith, Luol Deng, Josh Childress, Andre Iguodala, Ben Gordon, and Jose Calderon — with offer sheets that are worth more than the mid-level exception during the 2008 off-season. That, by the way, is ’cause the franchise is slated to be over the 2008-2009 salary cap due to having approximately $54 million in guaranteed contracts (i.e., Wally Szczerbiak, Chris Wilcox, Luke Ridnour, Nick Collison, Earl Watson, Kevin Durant, Jeff Green, Damien Wilkins, Mouhamed Sene, & Johan Petro) — as well as cap holds for restricted free-agents (i.e., Robert Swift, Delonte West, & Mickael Gelabale) and incoming draft picks — thus, Sam Presti should trade guys like Wilcox, Ridnour, Watson, and Wilkins for players who’ve got expiring contracts (e.g., Kwame Brown, Jason Williams, et al.), as it’s an exceptionally brilliant plan.
November 27th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
“Thomas and Wally have value to teams that are in the hunt late in the year. I would hope we could trade one or both in the next couple months for a veteran PG and picks.” {Sports Fan}
Regarding Kurt Thomas, there’s absolutely no reason to trade him. Thomas has an expiring contract worth $8,091,187 and, as a result, is of more value to the Seattle Supersonics than any asset that could be reasonably acquired for him. As it is, the Supersonics should keep Thomas throughout the 2007-2008 season and, in turn, watch him either retire or sign elsewhere as an unrestricted free-agent during the 2008 off-season. That’s essentially what went down with Danny Fortson last season.
November 27th, 2007 at 4:06 pm
Delonte West played a really solid game. He rattled Tony Parker all night when he played him. I don’t know the exact numbers based off of the play by play but when West and Parker were guarding each other, Parker was 3-12 or 2-11. He did an excellent job of frustrating Parker by simply being there when Parker caught the ball.
It seems liked Parker ran through 2-3 screens per possession before he got the ball to initiate the offense.
West was decisive in the 4th quarter for even keeping the game relatively close.
the score was 93-84 with 9:31 left in the 4th. Delonte had 7 points, 2 assists and a few forced turnovers (one on Parker definitely and one terrible shot by Parker) in the next 5 minutes to make the score 101-97 with 4:39 to play. Unfortunately around then Delonte had 1 of his 2 turnovers in the game. It seemed like nobody could do anything after that. Soon it was 111-101 with 1:05 left… the team took some questionable long range 2 pointers during that time.
The key to the game was the beginning to middle of the 3rd quarter.
November 27th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
“I always liked George…sure he had temper tantrums, but I always felt his heart was in the right place. You can’t argue against his results and/or his passion for the game of basketball. You might as well add KC Jones and Bernie Bickerstaff to your list as well…”
The successful coaches–in terms of winning– were Lenny Wilkings, Bernie Bickerstaff and George Karl.
My memory of the KC Jones era was that we lost under him (we didn’t have much talent though).
Bernie was great because he took a lottey team and turned it into a great underdog team–with three big time scorers (X-Man, Chambers and Ellis). Those were fun years, only surpassed by the GP and Kemp years under Karl.
But I remember how unstructured those teams were–absolutely no offensive set. My point was that it probably had more to do with the talent than the schemes.
Bernie had offensive schemes, but that was also because we had talented scorers. Dale Ellis needed screens to pop behind.
November 27th, 2007 at 4:12 pm
I agree if there is major expansion, shrink the rosters. But seems unlikely before early-mid next decade.
Tampa and Louisville are decent options too.
November 27th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
The key to the game was the beginning to middle of the 3rd quarter.
I see. So it wasn’t the last 4:39 when the Sonics were within 4?
November 27th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
Back on lineups for one more go. D West tried for larger minutes just 2 ways with 3 of the guys the same the only difference is Green or Collison. There are plenty of other lineups that might be better with West (some have been suggested thru the threads). They are likely being tried in a more minor way but it mgiht be nice to see a few of those tried more.
Also worth noting- the 4 bigger minute lineups with Green with Durant together all have Green at PF.
November 27th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
Ridnour’s turn at the helm when he gets healthy and if he stays that way will probably generate another 5 or more bigger minute 5 man lineups so we might end up with 15-20 of those by end of season. Plenty of tape for Sam, PJ and the whole crew to watch over and over lookiing for the core lineup to use and build around.
November 27th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
I find it amusing that AK added six teams to the league and yet none of them still went to OKC…
November 27th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
And if Damien doing OK causes him to opt out next year all the better. Im a little more ok with him dominating the ball for periods
November 27th, 2007 at 4:49 pm
I think Wilkins has calmed down a bit as far as dominating the ball. It kind of makes sense after hearing PJ admit that there’s really no offensive sets in place. No one on the team save Jeff Green and Gelabale have been bashful with their shot selection, or their propensity to take it one-on-one. If I was him, I’d probably feel some sense of entitlement to do as I pleased, considering everyone including Sene has been given the “green light”.
Yes, his play can be ugly. But does that really stand out on this team? Is he more of a detriment than most of our guys? Could be.
November 27th, 2007 at 4:56 pm
“The NBA should expand the league by adding 6 new teams (e.g., Cincinnati, Kansas City, Las Vegas, Pittsburgh, Saint Louis, San Diego); however, the roster size of every ballclub ought to be simultaneously consolidated by having just 12 roster spaces — with 2 guys inactive each game — as that’d prevent a dilution of talent. ”
The talent’s already diluted now.
Sorry, but that’s just an incredibly stupid idea, already mined by the pre-strike NHL, who expanded into markets that already couldn’t support a franchise, and considering the NBAs greed for a shiny new arena in every market, ultimately unsustainable.
If the league expanded into those six cities they’d be lucky to still have a team in any of them other than LV five years down the road. 5 of the six cities you just named have never been able to give sustained support to a basketball team. smaller rosters wouldn’t change that.
November 27th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
For those draft junkys out there, Eric Gordon is playing on ESPN right now. Looks like he’s going to be a special player.
November 27th, 2007 at 5:12 pm
“The talent’s already diluted now.
Sorry, but that’s just an incredibly stupid idea, already mined by the pre-strike NHL, who expanded into markets that already couldn’t support a franchise, and considering the NBAs greed for a shiny new arena in every market, ultimately unsustainable.
If the league expanded into those six cities they’d be lucky to still have a team in any of them other than LV five years down the road. 5 of the six cities you just named have never been able to give sustained support to a basketball team. smaller rosters wouldn’t change that.” {Steve}
Okay, it’d prevent a further dilution of talent.
Anyway, my only point was that roster consolidation would be a necessary companion to expansion — which, for whatever it’s worth, I don’t advocate as a pragmatic proposition — thus, you can rest assured that we’re mostly in agreement on this issue.
November 27th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
If the league expanded into those six cities they’d be lucky to still have a team in any of them other than LV five years down the road. 5 of the six cities you just named have never been able to give sustained support to a basketball team.
I agree. If the NBA wants to survive, they’re better off keeping new or relocated teams away from the NFL markets and instead move to where they can be the show and not have to compete for the almighty sports dollar.
November 27th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
Wow, I seemingly support the idea of expansion based on my original comments. Oh well, there’s a bit of duplicity for y’all. Everyone should just disregard the contradiction, though, as I’m fairly apathetic toward whole subject.
November 27th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
AK
Are you serious about expanding the league? If that was a joke, dismiss the following statements.
Your plan would add 30 starting players and a total of 12 new players. I am not sure how that would stop the league’s talent from being diluted. Without any new star power created Collison, Watson, Watson and Ridnour will have all become legit NBA starters.
November 27th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
Major expansion might work if they got more national broadcast tv again (more cities in the game might mean more viewership and more revenue) . Or if down the line national tv coverage shrunk and they had to relie even more on local tv. Or did a major expansion with at least some international teams and got more international tv money. But for now “the point is moot”.
November 27th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
Pelton notes today that Sonics are now 3rd youngest team. Lakers moved into #2 spot. As much as they have gotten grief in last few years they may have avoided the true or at least long rebuild. Too early to say they have ‘reloaded” enough to get excited about but you can consider what they did and have seen for results so far compared to what Sonics have or will soon.
November 27th, 2007 at 5:40 pm
Expansion at any time in the near future is simply not feasible nor advisable regardless of contractual situation. Malaman has it - it dilutes the talent level even further to the point where you could probably win an NBA title with last year’s Cleveland Cavaliers team.
And how exactly would the playoffs work in a 36 team league? Do you expand the field to 18 or 20 playoff teams so again it’s a situation where half or more of the teams in the league make the playoffs, thus making the regular season even more irrelevant than it already is? Also likely with such a diluted talent base that there’d be teams making the playoffs with losing records. Sorry, just a bad idea all around.
The league can’t even make half of their southern markets work now, let alone with 6 more teams gumming up the works. If anything, they should contract at least two teams … if it were up to me, probably Memphis and Atlanta, though I’m sure everyone would have their suggestions.
November 27th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
http://www.nba.com/news/survey_age_2007.html
Teams by average age, height, weight. experience.
Sonics 5th tallest on average, 11th heaviest, tied for 4th least on experience.
Does do those attributes make sense with running? If that is still the plan now or long-term as it appeared? I guess height doesn’t hurt. The above average weight doesnt help running (but might be useful in halfcourt defense). Low average age probably fits with running but the flipside is experience and seems to offset right now.
November 27th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
16 playoff teams is enough so I’d leave that there though they could play an NCAA style one game elimination for 8th seed in each conference.
I aslo have mentioned 36 team league before and know there are plenty of downside arguments. Maybe not enough upside ones though I think the case can be built up that a 36 team league eventually could make sense with growth of total population, specifically metros and the economies of each.Maybe by early to mid next decade.
I tried to stretch and see if the expansion idea could help with the threat to leave but it is very very remote to nil.
November 27th, 2007 at 6:11 pm
If expansion happens near term it will probably be minor 1-2 team expansion if league office thinks it is best solution. They don’t “want” to do it but still slight chance they might.
When Stern took over as commish US had about 240 million people and 23 teams. Now we have 300 million and 30 teams. It may be coincidental but the % increases are nearly the same. Go to 36 teams and keep same population to NBA team ratio the population would need to rise to 360 million.
I checked and looks like we aren’t going to get there anytime soon. According to midrange census estimate 330 mil by 2015 but only 350 by 2030. Maybe Stern knew more about this population growth slow down (and aging).
32 teams might be US limit. Overseas someday is another ball of yarn I won’t mess with right now.
November 27th, 2007 at 6:13 pm
I take back the pop growth info I just posted for the moment. The link I found was 10 years old (thanks google). I’ll update later when I have the current estimate.
November 27th, 2007 at 6:18 pm
Not that much different and it doesnt change the pull back in expectations on future expansions but just for the sake of completeness the correct current info says we hit 360 million in 2025- 2030.
November 27th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
I’ll take much of the heat on a 36 team league since I’ve yakked on it before. But onto the game at hand.
November 27th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
“AK
Are you serious about expanding the league? If that was a joke, dismiss the following statements.
Your plan would add 30 starting players and a total of 12 new players. I am not sure how that would stop the league’s talent from being diluted. Without any new star power created Collison, Watson, Watson and Ridnour will have all become legit NBA starters.” {malaman41}
If the NBA was composed of 36 teams that had 12 roster spots, then there would be a combined total of 432 players — which’d consist of 180 starters, 180 backups, and 72 inactive benchwarmers — throughout the entire league. Consequently, mid-level players such as Nick Collison and Earl Watson would most likely become full-fledged starters. That, admittedly, would be an unfortunate side effect.
“And how exactly would the playoffs work in a 36 team league? Do you expand the field to 18 or 20 playoff teams so again it’s a situation where half or more of the teams in the league make the playoffs, thus making the regular season even more irrelevant than it already is? Also likely with such a diluted talent base that there’d be teams making the playoffs with losing records. Sorry, just a bad idea all around.” {Steve}
Regardless of whether the NBA sticks with 30 teams or expands to 36 teams, there should be a 16-team playoff system that includes four rounds involving a total of 15 seven-game series.
“I’ll take much of the heat on a 36 team league since I’ve yakked on it before. But onto the game at hand.” {Crow}
Despite the fact that most people will scoff at your outline of expansion, it’s not a completely cockamamie suggestion. Hell, there’s definitely some substance to it.
November 27th, 2007 at 8:55 pm
“Hopefully, the Sonics can get in on the annual “star who’s unhappy with the current situation” or the “team who suddenly needs to rebuild” action next offseason as they will have more chips to play with.”
I don’t see this happening, because A) there’s a reason those guys are available as they either aren’t worth their contract, aren’t great guys to have on the team or injury prone and B) we are a couple of years away from competing and adding one of those guys would make us a first round exit team at best in the western conference. As Sam Presti doesn’t wants to rush things and do this step by step, i just can’t see it happening. It’s painfull watching your team lose, but that comes with rebuilding and as this takes a couple of years, we’ve got to get through it and not panic into moves like that.
BTW: I think trading Wally + the Suns pick or our 2nd rounders to another team that wants to get rid of a longer contract(not all that much longer then Wally’s deal, though) and would be OK moving down those spots to save some money, is something i could really see happening during next years draft. I mean, the Blazers got the pick that landed them Brandon Roy because they were fine taking on LaFrentz’s extra year and send Ratliff + Telfair to Boston.
Oh, and Wilcox could be another trade chip to be either thrown in , in such a deal, or being in there instead of Wally.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:18 pm
Presti can try to pursue a sea of options. Which he does and which he succeeds in finalizing will be interesting to watch.
To what extent will he maneuver to be a player in 08 and 09 free agency? I am not expecting them to do much if anything with it this coming summer but 09 should be more possible and more likely. But for whom? That can wait awhile.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
Presti has drafted and traded but not yet signed a free agent. Which of these methods will be his “go to play”? Surely it will be a mix but depending on which gets emphasized things will look very different and so might be the timetable.
January 10th, 2008 at 5:14 am
Peter
It’s surprising more people aren’t talking about this.good post.