12/15/07 Box Score: Sonics 75 Jazz 96
Posted on Saturday, December 15th, 2007 at 11:27 pm by Big Chris
A tough way to end a long road trip for the Seattle Supersonics. Six Sonics with +/- ratings -10 or worse. No Kurt Thomas (sore ankle). Only Wally Szczerbiak seemed able to get it going on offense tonight with 24 points on 8 of 16 shooting.
Kevin Durant was held to just six points, marking only the second time he has failed to score in double figures in his short NBA career.
(7-18)
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(14-11)
| Seattle | |||||||||||||||
| Name | Min | FG | 3Pt | FT | +/- | Off | Reb | Ast | TO | Stl | BS | BA | PF | Pts | |
| E. Watson | G | 27:32 | 1-8 | 1-2 | 0-0 | -20 | 0 | 3 | 5 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 3 |
| K. Durant | G | 19:07 | 3-11 | 0-1 | 0-1 | -19 | 3 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 4 | 3 | 6 |
| N. Collison | C | 34:02 | 4-9 | 0-0 | 0-1 | -10 | 2 | 9 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 8 |
| C. Wilcox | F | 30:49 | 1-8 | 0-0 | 6-6 | -12 | 2 | 7 | 2 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 8 |
| D. Wilkins | F | 27:00 | 3-8 | 0-1 | 0-0 | -15 | 0 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 6 |
| W. Szczerbiak | 32:17 | 8-16 | 3-6 | 5-6 | +2 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 24 | |
| J. Green | 20:50 | 0-5 | 0-0 | 2-2 | +3 | 2 | 5 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 2 | |
| L. Ridnour | 20:28 | 3-7 | 0-1 | 4-5 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 10 | |
| J. Petro | 20:28 | 3-6 | 0-0 | 2-2 | -21 | 2 | 5 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 8 | |
| M. Gelabale | 5:17 | 0-1 | 0-0 | 0-0 | -9 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | |
| M. Sene | DNP - Coach’s Decision | ||||||||||||||
| R. Swift | DNP - Coach’s Decision | ||||||||||||||
| K. Thomas | DNP - Sprained Right Ankle | ||||||||||||||
| D. West | DNP - Coach’s Decision | ||||||||||||||
| Totals | 26-79 | 4-11 | 19-23 | 11 | 37 | 17 | 19 | 8 | 5 | 6 | 20 | 75 | |||
| Percentages: | .329 | .364 | .826 | Team Rebounds: 8 |
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| Utah | |||||||||||||||
| Name | Min | FG | 3Pt | FT | +/- | Off | Reb | Ast | TO | Stl | BS | BA | PF | Pts | |
| D. Williams | G | 36:12 | 7-14 | 0-1 | 4-6 | +15 | 0 | 3 | 10 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 5 | 18 |
| R. Brewer | G | 29:29 | 6-11 | 0-1 | 6-7 | +7 | 2 | 5 | 2 | 2 | 5 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 18 |
| J. Collins | C | 18:46 | 1-2 | 0-0 | 2-2 | -6 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 4 |
| C. Boozer | F | 37:58 | 10-16 | 0-0 | 1-1 | +9 | 2 | 16 | 5 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 5 | 21 |
| A. Kirilenko | F | 36:05 | 6-12 | 0-1 | 4-6 | +17 | 0 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 5 | 1 | 3 | 16 |
| P. Millsap | 28:44 | 3-8 | 0-0 | 1-1 | +29 | 1 | 5 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 7 | |
| C.J. Miles | 21:20 | 0-6 | 0-2 | 2-2 | +13 | 0 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 2 | |
| J. Hart | 11:48 | 1-3 | 1-1 | 0-0 | +6 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 3 | |
| K. Fesenko | 10:31 | 1-1 | 0-0 | 0-0 | +10 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 2 | |
| G. Giricek | 6:57 | 2-2 | 1-1 | 0-0 | +2 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | |
| R. Price | 2:09 | 0-0 | 0-0 | 0-0 | +3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | |
| M. Harpring | DNP - Gastric Distress | ||||||||||||||
| M. Okur | DNP - Coach’s Decision | ||||||||||||||
| Totals | 37-75 | 2-7 | 20-25 | 5 | 40 | 24 | 17 | 15 | 6 | 5 | 24 | 96 | |||
| Percentages: | .493 | .286 | .800 | Team Rebounds: 15 |
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| Game Info |
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Technical Fouls: |
December 16th, 2007 at 12:09 am
AK47 is simply a horrible matchup for Durant at this point…
December 16th, 2007 at 4:14 am
Thank god I missed this game and watched “I am Legend” instead.
One of the BEST movies in the last 5 years. I will PERSONALLY pay you back if you don’t like it. It is THAT GOOD my friends.
December 16th, 2007 at 4:21 am
It was an alright movie, very entertaining though (which is what we paid to watch). Thought it was funny how there was another useless Will Smith workout scene in the middle of it.
December 16th, 2007 at 7:47 am
Free Gelabale! Send him immediately to Idaho so he can get some meaningful playing time. Can learn to play some point guard and play with a winner. At this point in time Idaho is much more fun to watch play. Has to do with chemistry of the team.
December 16th, 2007 at 8:49 am
Sonics definitely could have used Delonte West last night as he gives Deron Williams fits….and he did so the previous game.
December 16th, 2007 at 9:48 am
Ronnie Brewer would sure look good in a Supes uniform. Do you think Utah would trade him for Sene? Sene was a higher draft pick after all…
Maybe we could do the same with Al Jefferson and Swifty. Isn’t he supposed to come back after the road trip? Time to showcase him…
December 16th, 2007 at 10:57 am
Do you think Utah would trade Petro for Boozer?
Petro was drafted higher after all…
December 16th, 2007 at 11:00 am
to be a star in the nba durant has to find other ways to score the ball. I notice if his shot is not fallin from him early in the game he gets alittle down on himself and he stops being aggressive. maybe pj should posting him up against smaller defenders maybe some flash cuts to the basket and pick and rolls with the bigs.
December 16th, 2007 at 11:04 am
SW & Vinny are bumming me out.
So here’s what Presti didn’t say to the media during his session with the press a couple of days ago…
“We went into the season trying to find which players can match up well with Durant & Green and take this team into the future… We’re still searching… er, I mean evaluating.”
December 16th, 2007 at 11:55 am
So far only positive player pair for Durant is Thomas and Ridnour next as a mild negative, less than team average. Same for Green except he is slightly positive also with Gelabale.
Still learning the NBA game Durant & Green have 2 of the 4 worst team defense numbers when on court. With time hopefully that changes. Putting both on court may be too much for defense to handle right now.
With Green on court team defense gives up slightly higher FG% allowed but also allows more assists, get less blocks, get slightly less defensive rebounds, give up more foul shots and force less turnovers. That is a completely thorough dropoff.
With Durant on court team defense gives up way higher FG% allowed but also allows less assists, get les blocks, get slightly more defensive rebounds, give up more foul shots and force more turnovers. With Durant on court the defensive change is more mixed. Maybe there is mor epotential for getting to average- if the team eFG% allowed can be brought down.
The difference results with the 2 are partly their impacts, partly their different sets of teammates on the court with them.
Sonics defense may be better overall but it is not with these 2 foundations for the future. With either of them on court Sonics defense is nearly as bad as last season average. That will have to change and should change just a matter of far much, how quick. HOpefully Durant and Green learn the necessary lessons and PJ also finds the right guys to put aroiund them for a good defense with them on court. Success with defense without them on court is something positive for this year but will not be enough. They have to get the defense decent with them for the future.
December 16th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
“Do you think Utah would trade Petro for Boozer?
Petro was drafted higher after all… ”
I’d do it if they’d throw in a draft pick…
December 16th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
Ronnie Brewer would sure look good in a Supes uniform.
Hard to argue with that at this point.
December 16th, 2007 at 1:28 pm
“Ronnie Brewer would sure look good in a Supes uniform.”
The kid sure can D up and play without the ball. What hurts me even more was the player we took instead of him.
Don’t worry….in two years Sene will be like a poor mans Diop and you’ll eat your words. haha.
The saddest part is that in all likelyhood Brewer is better in his second year in the NBA than Sene most likely will ever be. Look at Brewers numbers. His rookie numbers alone, in the NBA, are better than Sene’s best numbers, at any level, over the span of his entire life.
December 16th, 2007 at 1:41 pm
The saddest part is that in all likelyhood Brewer is better in his second year in the NBA than Sene most likely will ever be
- Umm that isnt the saddest part…the saddest part is that Brewer was better in College than Sene will ever be in the NBA
December 16th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
Probably better in high school. But you get the point.
December 16th, 2007 at 1:51 pm
How long before we are out from under the contracts of Sene, Swift and Petro? They re-upped Petro recently. Of the 3 he has actually played some semi okay basketball, and he was a late pick so not a complete bust. But this team better have a plan for obtaining a defensive oriented center at some point.
December 16th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
If the NBA expanded by two teams right now, say Paris and London, which players would they pick from the Sonics? Would they have any interest in Sene as a development project? I’d say no, which shows how little we should expect. Wouldn’t hurt so much if we had veteran players ahead of him while he practiced. In Swift’s case the injury worried me from the start. He is just not that good to be able to adapt his game and play at 85% IMO.
December 16th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
- Umm that isnt the saddest part…the saddest part is that Brewer was better in College than Sene will ever be in the NBA
Actually, the saddest part is that the Sonics front office continues to refuse to give Sene the one thing he needs the most. Game experience. Instead of sending him down to the D-Leauge for all of last season and this season, where he could be gaining valuable playing experience, he’s sitting on the NBA bench rotting away.
If you are going to gamble and pick a project player, then you have to develope him. You don’t just let him waste away for two seasons doing nothing. Yeah, he gains some minimal experience in practice, but the bottom line is the guy needs game experience.
December 16th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
“Actually, the saddest part is that the Sonics front office continues to refuse to give Sene the one thing he needs the most. Game experience.”
Can’t he get better in practice. If he can’t do it in practice……what makes you think he can do it in a game?
December 16th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
Tottaly agree frozenropers. Last year they kept him up most of the year, only to play him a few minutes. This year too… probably due to Thomas never being available for sure and Swift out. But still…
December 16th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
I’ve heard coaches complain that NBA schedule doesn’t allow much practice especially on road trips. I’ve wondered too how effective NBA assistant coaches would be with him. They are good coaches, but they didn’t get their jobs by being good at teaching brand new players but rather taking skilled players and developing the nuances that make or break the highest level of play. I’m not sure the head of the Seattle symphony would be at teaching me to play a violin. Just a thought.
December 16th, 2007 at 2:23 pm
I saw something awhile back where the Sonics/PJ said Sene wouldn’t be sent down as long as Swift was out.
December 16th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
Don’t get me wrong. I’m all for sending Sene to the NBDL. Should have been done before the start of the season. But I’m against just giving a guy minutes when he doesn’t deserve them.
“I’m not sure the head of the Seattle symphony would be at teaching me to play a violin.”
haha. Probably true. But we signed you to the symphony after you did a mean version of “hot cross buns” and showed potential. Its clearly evident you don’t know how to play though. So for us to put you on the performance roster just because “you need experience” isnt’ the most responsible thing to do.
December 16th, 2007 at 2:30 pm
Sund drafted Sene for entertainment purposes. Every team needs a clown on their team.
December 16th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
Can’t he get better in practice. If he can’t do it in practice……what makes you think he can do it in a game?
1. You can practice all you want, but there is no substitute for getting game experience.
2. What makes you think he “can’t” do it in practice? What is “it” that you are referring to? Are you talking about posting up on the block with a teammate standing behing him and make a post move when the coach passes the ball into him? Or are you talking about running the floor full speed and making game decisions on the fly as plays unfold?
You can practice all you want, but he needs to get used to making decisions at game speed as situations unfold. Not to mention, NBA practices during the season aren’t even close to the intensity or speed of a real game. So trying to get “game” experience while hanging out in practice during the season doesn’t exaclty cut it.
3. The whole point is that Sene needs to go get “game expereience” so he can work on what he has been practicing. If he doesn’t get the chance to play in games, he’ll never improve to the extent or speed that he should be.
I mean seriously, do you really think Sene is going to get the experience he needs by sitting on the NBA bench and doing some work in practice during the season? If you do, then you are sadly mistaken.
December 16th, 2007 at 2:49 pm
But I’m against just giving a guy minutes when he doesn’t deserve them.
Maybe you completely misinterpreted what I said, thinking I was implying that Sene should be given minutes at the NBA level, when I said the Sonics screwed up by not sending Sene to the D-League last year and this season.
December 16th, 2007 at 2:51 pm
So for us to put you on the performance roster just because “you need experience” isnt’ the most responsible thing to do.
That’s why they should have sent TukwilaSonic to the Snohomish Symphony to get playing experience rather than had him sit backstage in Seattle watching everyone else play the violin, waiting for someone to get a blister and need a substitute.
December 16th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
“Actually, the saddest part is that the Sonics front office continues to refuse to give Sene the one thing he needs the most. Game experience. Instead of sending him down to the D-Leauge for all of last season and this season, where he could be gaining valuable playing experience, he’s sitting on the NBA bench rotting away.” {Frozenropers}
Nope, Menace and Myk are right about how that the actual selection of Mouhamed Sene was the saddest part of this whole debacle.
Due to Ronnie Brewer’s pedigree and track record — along with the Seattle Supersonics lack of depth at the wing positions entering the 2006-2007 season — there was absolutely no justifiable reason for Wally Walker, Rick Sund, David Pendergraft, and Steve Rosenberry to agree upon drafting a raw, unproven stiff in Sene. This, by the way, isn’t a matter of hindsight being twenty-twenty; instead, it’s about several professional evaluators of basketball talent — who, thankfully, were soon thereafter fired from their positions with the franchise — lacking any goddamn common sense.
Of all the hotly contested debates that we have here, this one definitely has a clear-cut answer. For all intents and purposes, Sene is a bust—there’s no ifs, ands, or buts about it!
December 16th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
I saw something awhile back where the Sonics/PJ said Sene wouldn’t be sent down as long as Swift was out.
I think you are probably right there Dick. I think it was the same logic that resulted in the Sonics keeping Sene at the NBA level most of the season.
Sund/Wies last season and now Presti/PJ this season are making the mistake of keeping Sene around trying to do what might be best for the team in the short term, rather than doing what’s best for the franchise and Sene in the long term.
If they want some “insurance” on the bench, then sign some veteran stiff post player from the D-LEague to sit on the bench and do nothing, while sending Sene out to play every night in the D-League and gain valuable game experience.
December 16th, 2007 at 3:10 pm
I see your point frozen. But what I’m saying is if Sene swats at rebounds in practice and goes for up and under moves…….why should he play in real NBA games? So he can embarress us? So he can make mistakes at a higher speed? What do you learn from that? How does that help your game?
I’m totally in agreement with you about the NBDL. I just disagree with people that think he should be handed NBA minutes in the name of development.
December 16th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
I’m pissed off about the Seattle Seahawks loss today, so pardon me for being extra harsh toward Mohamed Sene. Nevertheless, I still predict that the ‘hawks will win the NFC Championship this season.
December 16th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
“What makes you think he “can’t” do it in practice? What is “it” that you are referring to?”
By “it”….I mean play basketball. To do fundamental things. Things that help us win.
I’m definitely not watching practices. So I don’t know. But if he played good then…..wouldn’t he deserve/get playing time? What makes me think he can’t get it done in practice?
1. He is last on the depth chart at the center position on one of the worst teams in the league.
2. PJ said it himself in a Times interview earlier this year. He said Mo does things in practice that make it look like he has never ever played this game before.
3. I’ve watched him play this year.
December 16th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
If Mouhamed Sene was assigned to the NBDL, then he’d once again backup the following player at center on the Idaho Stampede.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/sports/story/224980.html
Aside from the fact that Sene would be a reserve in the minor leagues, Lance Allred’s life is a fairly interesting story.
December 16th, 2007 at 3:53 pm
“What makes you think he “can’t” do it in practice? What is “it” that you are referring to? Are you talking about posting up on the block with a teammate standing behing him and make a post move when the coach passes the ball into him? Or are you talking about running the floor full speed and making game decisions on the fly as plays unfold?” {Frozenropers}
From what I’ve gathered while watching Mouhamed Sene play during garbage minutes of games this season, he’s got poor shooting form, horrible shot selection, no sense of positioning on defense, hilariously awful rebounding techniques, horrendous coordination, and a lack of overall court awareness.
December 16th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
Sene is terrible, absolutely terrible.. If he is a potential I am coming back to play.. I know the low post game, drop steps. positioning, boxing out, footwork, and yes general know how..
Sene has non of these skills, and the next person who says he can intimidate hasn’t seen his footwork on defense.. Sometimes he looks like a fish out of water, I do not like to bash players unless they deserve it.. Sene sucks, but guess what Swift is worse, he has never been in shape.. He should be ashamed to walk on the court in the shape he is in.. I trained a kid this summer back in Boston 6′9 post player lost 40 pounds, busted his balls. He went from D-2 to D-1 in one summer, was it because of me, hell no this kid has balls, and he is tough, he got better because he wanted it.. Sene is not going to get better at this level because he shouldn’t be here in the first place..
December 16th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
I tried out for the Snohomish symphony and they made me pay for the broken windows. As I left they said something about never relying on length of arms measurements again…
December 16th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
I think the team must want to keep Sene off the court, here or for Idaho, just to keep the team from being embarrassed.
December 16th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
why should he play in real NBA games?
I’m totally in agreement with you about the NBDL. I just disagree with people that think he should be handed NBA minutes in the name of development.
Menace, who are your arguing with or trying to convince that Sene should be playing in NBA games? Nobody in this thread said he should be playing in NBA games.
December 16th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
Sene sucks, but guess what Swift is worse, he has never been in shape..
What little credibility you had, you just lost with that statement.
December 16th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
I think the team must want to keep Sene off the court, here or for Idaho, just to keep the team from being embarrassed.
There was nothing embarrassing about Sene’s play in Idaho last season. Funny what short memories many people around here have.
He should be down there this season, playing every night. There really is no excuse.
December 16th, 2007 at 5:29 pm
that Sene should be playing in NBA games?
That should say, “….that Sene should not be playing in NBA games”.
December 16th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
Ronnie Brewer is a very good defensive player. When he has been on the court, the Jazz are giving up 110 points per 100 possessions, as opposed to slightly under 102 points per 100 possessions with him off the court. The PER of the opposing SG when he has been on the court is 21.1. That he can occasionally get the highlight-reel block and steal hardly makes him a good defensive player.
These statistics seem to suggest that Brewer is very poor defensively or playing with very bad defensive players (Kirilenko, Boozer, Williams). Which one is it? In any event, the statistics do not support the argument that Brewer is a good defensive player or can “can D up.”
December 16th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
Didn’t the Sonics make a bigger mistake drafting Robert Swift over Al Jefferson than with taking Sene over Ronnie Brewer? I’d rather have Jefferson than Brewer. Though both only focus on their offense, I don’t think I’m going out on a limb by arguing Jefferson is a better offensive player than Brewer.
Swift has had no impact on this franchise since he was drafted in 2003. People here often talk about how Sene even reaching Diop’s level would be against odds. What about the odds facing Swift, a guy coming off a severe injury that sidelined him for over a year, a guy with weight and confidence issues, and a guy that has been as useless as one can be in his first four years in the NBA?
December 16th, 2007 at 5:44 pm
I can’t judge NBDL players from stats but if Allred is anywhere close I hope he gets a callup chance with somebody. Seems unlikely here with the folks on the roster already. Petro has gotten some time. Swift will when ready. Sene… I don’t know when he gets time or if he has earned it or is ready but I am tired of waiting. Maybe somebody else getting a shot could be a useful exercise for Sene, Swift, Petro to see again at some point if they don’t get into the right attitude and performance mode in practice or in games. Big G didnt make it last season but I am willing to look at others who are hungry for the break. Allred, Rod Benson, Elton Brown or whoever.
December 16th, 2007 at 5:48 pm
I sure could go for an arena solution right about now.
December 16th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
The Seahawks have only played four games all season against teams with a record .500 or better. In those four games, they are 1-3 with the only victory coming against a Tampa Bay team that lost Jeff Garcia for the second half of the game, which happened to be the first of the season. Seattle has played terribly against good teams and is only in the position that they are in because nine of their thirteen games have come against teams with a record below .500.
The NFL playoffs are a lot more predicatable than the NBA playoffs, at least by seeding. The #1 seed in the NFC has represented the NFC in the last three Super Bowls. I think Seattle will end up with the #4 seed (TB wins out and Seattle loses to Baltimore on the road) and a first round date with the New York Giants.
December 16th, 2007 at 6:46 pm
Frozen rope & others…. on Sene….. I agree with you 100%
Sene accumlating DNP’s is of NO value. I would for sure send him over to the D-League & let him get game experience. This is simply a mistake being made by Presti to keep him on the Sonics roster at this time as a bench warmer.
Taking Swift over Jefferson was a huge mistake - draft day hindsight is of course 20-20 - but Sund simply blew it on that one.
Picking Sene over Brewer does not look good at all. I have not given up on Sene but I know I could be way to optimistic. What bothers me is the Sonics not sending him to the D-League to give him the best chance to develop.
December 16th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
I think this would make the playoffs more exciting and create more viewers:
Only 14 teams make the playoffs.
The top team in each conference each gets to sit out the first round.
2 vs. 7 - best of 3 games
3 vs. 6 - best of 5 games
4 vs. 5 - best of 7 games
December 16th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
Oh yeah - winner best of 5 plays #1 team
December 16th, 2007 at 6:58 pm
Vinny — I like your creativity & thinking “Outside the Box”… but no way this will ever be considered. Less games = less $$$$$.
December 16th, 2007 at 7:03 pm
Washington needs a PG bad - With Arenas & Daniels injured but has reasonable shot at playoffs & a run because Gilbert should be back in February or so.
SO > Could the sonic deal Watson or Luke to Washington?
Straight up for B. Haywood - the salaires would work?
Our PG for 2 young Wizards with expiring contracts next year or with a team option:
N. Young at 1.4 million &
O Perchov at 1.3 million
I know Luke & Earl each ar at about 6 million for this year & 2 more after that. But I think the Sonics has 2 smaller trade exceptions that could be used to make this one work - I could be wrong.
IMO Luke or Earl would be a big upgrade for the Wizards at this point.
Anyway - just a thought - any ideas on this?
December 16th, 2007 at 7:11 pm
I think the Wizards are going to be facing Gilbert Arenas opting out this summer right?
They probably are gearing everything towards preparing for that.
So adding any kind of multi year contracts at this point would be counter productive.
December 16th, 2007 at 7:16 pm
Less games = less $$$$$
More games = less interest = less $$$$$
They nedd to find some kind of balance because ever since switching to the current playoff format the NBA playoffs have become something of a sorrowful punchline. I also detest the gigantic down time between the regular season & playoffs beginning.
December 16th, 2007 at 7:33 pm
Vinny….
I agree that the NBA playoffs have been going downhill in terms of fan interest in the past few years - TV ratings going down etc.
BUT…. I would content that is not really because of the playoff format. Many of the series the past 2-3 years have been terrific with lots of great games.
I think the problem is the overall direction & structure of the league itself which is causing the NBA to be going the direction of the NHL which is a viable league with lots of $$$ involved but with a shrinking fan base of hard-core fans. Baseball & football have much more broad appeal. Many reasons for this IMO… won’t outline them now - but changing playoff format is interesting to think about but IMO is not the answer to increasing interest. The problems are more deep-rooted than that.
December 16th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
Alex Chan… I totally agree with you on Sunds Drafting of Swift over Jefferson being a choke. 1 more thing
I’d also add they could have had Josh Smith instead of Smith as well - he went to Atlanta a few pciks after Jefferson was drafted.
Sund made the misake of thinking…. “I’ve got to get a center”
I still remember his KJR interview after drafting Swift - who they had barely scouted at all & he pretty much justified it by saying you have to find a #5 somehow & Centers are key etc. etc.
Even then I was skeptical because who needs a 7 foot stiff. Get me someone who can play the game. Maybe R. Swift will heal and develop and be solid or better - but I’m not optimistic and i certainly don’t expect Swift to ever be as good at Jefferson or Josh Smith.
December 16th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
Here is an article on Flopping:
http://hoopshype.com/columns/integrity_hans.htm
Small sample:
Stern inherited from predecessor Larry O’Brien a fast-paced, free- flowing, wonderful game. The great Celtics-Lakers finals of 1984, 1985 and 1987 featured an occasional endangering cheapshot — usually by a Celtic — but were generally flop-free affairs. Yes, Detroit’s Bill Laimbeer and other floppers littered the NBA landscape, but back then he was widely despised because of his flopping. If he were playing today, the ‘Inside the NBA’ show would invite him to demonstrate his techniques on one of its ludicrous ‘TNT Fundamentals’ segments.
December 16th, 2007 at 7:56 pm
I really put a lot of the blame for this loss on PJ. The Sonics lost all their offensive momentum in the 2nd quarter when PJ put a lineup of Watson, Gelebale, Wilkins, Collison, and Petro out on the court. That has to be one of the worst offensive groups I have ever seen. That’s when Utah started to get their defense going, and in turn Seattle’s offense went south.
I seriously question having Durant sit most of the 1st half when he picked up his 3rd foul. What’s the point of saving a guys fouls if you are going to get blown out in the process. I realize he also wasn’t playing very well, but sitting him on the bench for so long didn’t exactly help him get into a rhythm.
The Blazers had success against Utah by playing Outlaw at power forward and using a quicker lineup. The Sonics were playing well with Green at power forward, but they didn’t stick with what was working. Instead, they decided to try to match up with Utah by going with a big lineup of Collison and Petro. Unfortunately, that was playing right into what Utah wants you to do. I would have rather have seen PJ be a little more creative and go to a quicker lineup with Green at the four, and Collison, or Wilcox at center. In order for the Sonics to win right now they have to score at a high level and the lineups PJ used didn’t allow them to do that.
December 16th, 2007 at 8:05 pm
The season is pretty far along now. I do not know how much longer these bad decisions by PJ can be written off as him just being rusty.
Maybe he is just a below average coach.
December 16th, 2007 at 8:39 pm
PJ really needs to consider taking Wilkins out of the starting lineup. I wouldn’t mind seeing Delonte West moved to shooting guard and playing Durant at small forward. The other option would be to keep Durant at the 2 guard and starting Green at small forward.
December 16th, 2007 at 9:43 pm
“Menace, who are your arguing with or trying to convince that Sene should be playing in NBA games? Nobody in this thread said he should be playing in NBA games.”
Frozen - I’m not arguing with anyone. We agree. But there are people out there that think that Sene should play no matter what in the name of development. I don’t agree with that. Obvioulsy you don’t either.
http://www.sonicscentral.com/bboard/viewtopic.php?t=5812
December 16th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
“The season is pretty far along now. I do not know how much longer these bad decisions by PJ can be written off as him just being rusty.
Maybe he is just a below average coach.”
Or maybe Utah is just head and shoulders above us in every way.
December 16th, 2007 at 9:51 pm
Ok Mr Frozenropers your turn to get some, you think Sene played well in the NBDL, I coached in that league my friend and no he did not do well, for a potential NBA player.. Tell me what NBA skills Robert Swift has mr foolish, now I said NBA skills.. He has none, can he shoot hero, is he a good defender hero, is he going to help this team in 3 years, no to all of the above.. I read your comments, you do not have a clue my man.. So I will ask you foolish what skills do any of these centers have, come on I want to laugh my balls off.. You my friend are a……..Stop playing with yourself….
December 16th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
But there are people out there that think that Sene should play no matter what in the name of development. I don’t agree with that. Obvioulsy you don’t either.
Agreed, but none of them have said a thing in this thread. So, are you just bringing up that point then to beat a dead horse, on the chance that one of them is reading this thread? Whatever.
December 16th, 2007 at 10:05 pm
My point when I go to some of the games and see Swift laughing and joking on the sidelines, not even into the game, it makes me crazy.. He has no balls, and is so out of shape it is discusting. I never played one game out of shape in this league, if anyone thinks Swift is in shape, I mean NBA shape, they are out to lunch.. You have to ask yourself this, who is going to help this team in 3 years….
December 16th, 2007 at 10:16 pm
Ok Mr Frozenropers your turn to get some, you think Sene played well in the NBDL, I coached in that league my friend and no he did not do well, for a potential NBA player.. Tell me what NBA skills Robert Swift has mr foolish, now I said NBA skills.. He has none, can he shoot hero, is he a good defender hero, is he going to help this team in 3 years, no to all of the above.. I read your comments, you do not have a clue my man.. So I will ask you foolish what skills do any of these centers have, come on I want to laugh my balls off.. You my friend are a……..Stop playing with yourself….
Glad you can supposedly coached…because you sure as hell can’t type or speak english.
Yes, you are the “great” D-League coach who’s famous line is, “X…player can’t make it in the NBA ’cause he doesn’t have balls”. Brilliant, I hope you aren’t wondering why you are posting on a message board now, rather than still coaching in the D-League.
Sene has the one NBA quality that can’t be “taught”, he has height and ridiculous reach. What he is lacking is game experience. He showed in the D-League last year, that when given the minutes (at that level) he does show improvement. If you were supposedly coaching in the league then, you would have noticed. Thus, he needs to be given as many minutes as possible (in the D-league), in order to develop his skills to the point that he can be valuable to an NBA franchise.
As far as Robert Swift goes, when healthy, he showed the ability to block shots and rebound. His post defense was improving and he was actually starting to show some post moves back in 2005/2006. Where he is at after his knee injury is yet to be seen as he’s still struggling from the affects.
You can take your ever so eloquent, “he doesn’t have balls” analysis and stick it in that dark hole just below the ball sack.
Yes, Mr. beantown, count me as not impressed.
December 16th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
He has no balls, and is so out of shape it is discusting.
Thanks for the insite. Then again, I guess if you were coaching in the D-League, that is probably a pretty important thing to know. If they have balls they can play in the NBA, if not, then they are a WNBA candidate.
My appologies for my past comments. I think I now understand how your NBA talent analysis works.
December 16th, 2007 at 10:27 pm
Wow Frozen. Get off the rag.
December 16th, 2007 at 10:27 pm
I never played one game out of shape in this league, if anyone thinks Swift is in shape, I mean NBA shape, they are out to lunch..
No kidding. What’s Swift thinking. How can he not be in NBA game shape right now. It’s not like he’s been recovering from an ACL tear or anything that has limited his ability to put intense stress and strain on his knee or anything.
December 16th, 2007 at 10:28 pm
won’t you take me to
crankytown
won’t you take me to
crankytown
December 16th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
Wow Frozen. Get off the rag.
Menace, if you agree with something that beantown has said, then have at it.
Otherwise, go back to arguing your point against those guys who haven’t posted in this thread, that Sene shouldn be given unlimited NBA minutes in order to develop. Who knows, one of them might pass by, see your post and decide to join the conversation at some point.
December 16th, 2007 at 10:40 pm
We agreed to agree. Trying to figure out why your so defensive and hostile when we agree. Just strange.
December 16th, 2007 at 10:43 pm
Pretty sure everything posted doesn’t have to be a response to what you say. So get over yourself.
Example: I don’t think any of our centers are good. (This isn’t a response to any comment so take it how you want to)
December 16th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
PS: Jamal Magloire is a still a stiff. lol
December 16th, 2007 at 10:48 pm
won’t you take me to
crankytown
No, just count me as unimpressed by someone who’s every player evaluation on this board seems to be highlighted by “he has no balls”. Maybe beantown went to the Isiah Thomas school of player evaluation. That could explain alot.
I mean seriously. If Mr. beantown was really a former NBA player and this great D-League coach, he’d be able to give us a little better player evaluation than “he has no balls, therefore he can’t play in the NBA”.
December 16th, 2007 at 10:52 pm
“Thanks for the insite. Then again, I guess if you were coaching in the D-League, that is probably a pretty important thing to know. If they have balls they can play in the NBA, if not, then they are a WNBA candidate.” {Frozenropers}
There’s some broads in the WNBA — such as Lauren Jackson, Courtney Paris, and Cheryl Ford (i.e., Karl Malone’s bastard daughter) — who’ve got a ton of ovarian fortitude. They definitely possess the necessary equipment to, uh, bang with the boys … although I’m not referring to basketball.
In all seriousness, though, beantown’s incessant bitching about “balls” is always good for a laugh. I do think that he’s too harsh toward Robert Swift, however, with my reasoning being that “Big Red” has yet to be one-hundred percent healthy this season; thus, I’m going to reserve my judgement regarding his performance until a later date.
December 16th, 2007 at 10:54 pm
Pretty sure everything posted doesn’t have to be a response to what you say.
If you are going to argue against a specific point (as you so linked later on) doesn’t it make sense to at least make your counter argument in the same thread?
December 16th, 2007 at 11:01 pm
PS: Jamal Magloire is a still a stiff. lol
Magloire played well for the Blazers in March and April last season. He is what he is….a veteran backup center.
December 16th, 2007 at 11:21 pm
On Sene…..
How much upside & potential does this guy have? I don’t know - but I’m pretty sure no one will find out watching him sit on the bench.
He was drafted as a raw project with unique phyical tools - I thought when he was drafted it would take 3+ years just to get him going with regular practice & games etc. as well as learning the language & culture etc. as a young guy coming from a different country.
My point is…. It seems to early to completley give up on him and say he is a total bust - and it also seems foolish to me to not send him down to the D-League for regular minutes in real games against solid competion. I just think PJ & Presti are missing this one - go give Sene solid playing time in the D-League NOW.
They say they want him around as depth while Swift is out - I think this is ridiculous - if Collison & Thomas both go down go small, get another free agent big guy or just bring Sene back up.
Free Sene from the Sonics Bench!
December 16th, 2007 at 11:41 pm
“My point when I go to some of the games and see Swift laughing and joking on the sidelines, not even into the game, it makes me crazy.. He has no balls, and is so out of shape it is discusting. I never played one game out of shape in this league, if anyone thinks Swift is in shape, I mean NBA shape, they are out to lunch.. You have to ask yourself this, who is going to help this team in 3 years….”–beantown
Dude, who are you?
If you played in the league, coached in the D-League, and are willing to make comments about Sene and Swift why not just tell us who you are? Yes, Sene is a raw project, and yes, Swift probably needs to get into better conditioning, however, he has done a pretty admirable job of adding some muscle mass during the offseason…and there were times this season when he began to play some quality minutes and set some decent picks.
Plus, let me ask you this: what options do we have? I don’t think Danny Ainge is exactly coveting Swift so much anymore and nobody is leaping up to trade for Sene either. Plus, Johan Petro isn’t exactly superman.
Maybe if you told us who you were it would add some credibility to your case.
December 16th, 2007 at 11:45 pm
Beantown, no offense, but you are REALLY into yourself.
In response to what Swift does well, well he should be evaluated on what he did before the injury and what he will do after he recovers. Before the injury he ran the floor well, finished with authority, and was a presence in the middle. Obviously he’s overweight now simply because all he does is lift weights in the uppers since his knee can’t withstand a lot of pressure from heavy cardio. My guess is he won’t shed a significant amount of weight until next offseason.
Also, before you call him a slob, you should watch him work on his game with Mark Bryant before every game. That includes road games as well. So it’s not like he’s trying to sit back and collect a paycheck, he’s putting his work in.
December 16th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
After the first quarter it seemed that Durant was brought in as soon as AK hit the bench.
That lineup looked pretty bad to me on offense as well, but I thought they were put out there for defensive purposes. Watson, Gelebale, Wilkins, Collison, and Petro are about the best defensive unit they can play if Thomas isn’t available. It seemed to me he was trying to slow the Jazz offense down, but whenever someone breathed on AK early there was a foul called and he went to the line. The officiating in Utah is rarely good for the visitor, so that’s one game I rarely expect the Sonics to win. There were a lot of things that contributed to the team totally folding, in fact there isn’t a lineup that looked good on offense lastnight. There was one player that did. One player that hasn’t been relying on Thomas’ moves during the recent .500 play. Not that they all have and there was a lot of choking in general. Let’s see what we’re really looking at though:
2 teams playing their 4th game in 5 nights.
Seattle without their starting C and backup C. (Free Game for Boozer)
Also without a G that bloggers think should either be the starting PG or backup.
One game in the environment that it seems most difficult for the visiting team to get a fair shake in the entire NBA.
I mostly agree with the idea of having Szczerbiak starting, except that that makes this your bench: Watson, Gelebale, Wilkins, Collison, and Petro… I recall some complaint about this lineup, so maybe the reason Szcerbiak is on it instead of Wilkins is to have a solid scorer on the bench. Not that Wally’s as solid as he is streaky, but I’d rather rely on him from the bench than Wilkins.
December 16th, 2007 at 11:53 pm
I have seen Swift run the floor well, contest shots (incl. blocking) bang with other big men and show some good scoring moves, including hitting jumpers from 10+ feet out SINCE RETURNING FROM INJURY AND ADDING 80 POUNDS. I really don’t know what player you’re talking about, beantown, because it’s not Robert Swift.
December 16th, 2007 at 11:55 pm
Also he’s a good rebounder (even for size) and excellent passer for his size. What more do you really want potential size for a 21 Year old?
December 17th, 2007 at 12:54 am
Wow this was a pretty funny thread…gotta say I agree with everything that AK, Menace and Beantown said…cold day in he!!…
December 17th, 2007 at 1:14 am
I couldn’t read the whole thread, but I saw one thing I agreed with from Menace. I don’t think any of our centers are good either at this point, and the only one I have any hope for is Sene, bcuz of his length, speed, & defensive potential, but that’s still nothing to take to the bank I concede. Thomas is good, but I don’t think Menace was talking about him. I have no idea why people hold Swift in such high regard(although I think I have an idea unfortunately). Since I’m not sure though, I won’t go there. In regards to Petro, even as a somewhat low mid first round pick, he’s looking like a second rounder at best. Sene probably should have been a low first rounder, or high second as well, and that’s being nice to both those guys. The drafting of Swift over Al Jefferson, and the fact that Nate called him Robert Smith on draft day says all we need to know about that pick. Ouch, and I think that had to be about the worst possible 3 year stretch of drafting I know of. Not 1 of those guys is helping us to win, and I still can’t see the day that anyone of them will be an actual difference maker. Would at least still like to see Mo get Petros’ minutes, so that it can be said that he’s had the same chance as Petro got to prove what he can do, or can’t…
December 17th, 2007 at 2:05 am
I know I’m in the minority on Sene, but I won’t push him on anyone as long as they don’t try to push Swift, or Petro on me either, allright(winking)?
December 17th, 2007 at 2:34 am
“Wow this was a pretty funny thread…gotta say I agree with everything that AK, Menace and Beantown said…cold day in he!!…” {Myk}
You, Menace, and I were the three guys who called out Brian R. for slyly switching his opinion on Mohaumed Sene — which, as far as I’m concerned, was done specifically to appease his relationship with the Seattle Supersonics’ organization at that moment in time — thus, we’ve agreed on things prior to today.
Scott and Steve, however, don’t have the same excuse as Brian. While Brian was trying to be slick about it, Scott and Steve were either following in line or just can’t hack it as evaluators of talent.
December 17th, 2007 at 8:18 am
I agree with everything that AK, Menace and Beantown said…
So you don’t think Sene did well when he was down in the D-league last season, Myk? Any basis as to why?
His numbers were solid and he had some very impressive games from a statistical standpoint, especially considering he was playing against former college level standouts and NBA retreads.
December 17th, 2007 at 8:33 am
“While Brian was trying to be slick about it, Scott and Steve were either following in line or just can’t hack it as evaluators of talent.”
What did I do this time? I haven’t checked the site in 4 days and somehow I’ve done something? I’m not even sure what the arguement is about here, I just found this comment by AK in moderation with my name attached.
December 17th, 2007 at 9:16 am
These statistics seem to suggest that Brewer is very poor defensively or playing with very bad defensive players (Kirilenko, Boozer, Williams). Which one is it? In any event, the statistics do not support the argument that Brewer is a good defensive player or can “can D up.”
This is interesting what the “numbers” are saying, regarding Brewers defense. I’m not completely sold on NBA defensive rating numbers, how they are fomulated and the completeness of their accuracy.
Having watched Brewer a couple times now this season, I’d say he is a very good wing defender and a good all around ball player. He is exactly the kind of 2 guard this team could use next to Durant. I don’t remember him getting beat one-on-one much if any during that last game (not that we’ve got many players that he’d be defending that could beat anyone one-on-one). Brewer seemed to have a good idea of the overall team defense concept. He had numerous steals and seemed to play the passing lanes well and was very disruptive with his long arms.
He appeared to have a good idea of what to do on offense, sliding in several times to receive the pass at the elbow extended and knocked down the mid-range jumper when the Sonics were sitting in zone. He made nice cuts to the bucket several times, after reading the seams of the Sonics zone or by beating his man to the cut off the weak side.
In this case, I’m not sure if the numbers are being skewed by something or its still just a small sample size, however I have a hard time believing that Ronnie Brewer is a poor defensive player.
December 17th, 2007 at 9:19 am
Glad to see Mike Wilks back in a uniform again.
December 17th, 2007 at 10:01 am
which one?
December 17th, 2007 at 10:01 am
“Scott and Steve, however, don’t have the same excuse as Brian. While Brian was trying to be slick about it, Scott and Steve were either following in line or just can’t hack it as evaluators of talent. ”
Uh, what do we have to do with you taking cheap shots at Brian? As far as I know I haven’t flip flopped on Sene … you’re the coward who can never be found after Kevin Durant has a good game … so much for intestinal fortitude. Tell you what, we’ll call you if we need Slurpees or smokes. #3 pump is calling for gas.
December 17th, 2007 at 10:39 am
I watched up until the 3rd and then I went out and saw “I Am Legend” lol, and yes it was better than I expected despite the bad CGI zombies.
December 17th, 2007 at 10:45 am
I was thinking of see that too. Is it worth the price of a matinee?
December 17th, 2007 at 10:51 am
I have no idea why people hold Swift in such high regard(although I think I have an idea unfortunately). Since I’m not sure though, I won’t go there.
- You better not be accusing us for hating french people…that is totally acceptable in America. Even the great Brodie Jenner (who I do consider the spokesman for all things America) called them smelly with hairy armpits…
So you don’t think Sene did well when he was down in the D-league last season, Myk? Any basis as to why?
His numbers were solid and he had some very impressive games from a statistical standpoint, especially considering he was playing against former college level standouts and NBA retreads.
- I think that performing well in the NBDL has zero value to a player’s performance in the NBA. The NBDL is a sham and does not even come close to doing what some people think it does: Develop Players…it is just a league of glorified pick up games. To say that he was playing against form college level standouts and NBA retreads is giving way more credit to the talent level of the league.
As I have said in the past…if I am supposed to think that NBDL stats are worth anything then shouldn’t we have kept Andre Brown on the team over Sene…he did significantly better in the NBDL than Sene, yet no one was disappointed when he didn’t make the team this year. The NBDL is a crutch and it is something we should not be having to send our #10 draft choice to “learn” the game.
December 17th, 2007 at 11:00 am
Raw team defensive numbers are not completely straightforward at telling the story since it involves teammates and strength of opponents on floor (tougher against starter than bench) but Brewer on court opponent is shooting 7 percentage points better and Jazz rebound worse. His 82games counterpart defense estimate shows him giving up a PER21 (all-star level) and getting outscored by 4 as opponents choose or are forced to go at him more than any other Jazz player on the court with him.
Last season Brewer rated better on team defense and looked better at SG near average depending on measure) but he was as bad at guarding SF as he is SG this season.
Maybe he has focused more on offense this season. Maybe with time his defensive numbers will improved back toward expectations. But right now I’d say he is not good on D.
December 17th, 2007 at 11:03 am
The NBDL is a crutch and it is something we should not be having to send our #10 draft choice to “learn” the game.
Well, that’s beside the point. If we had drafted an experienced player then it wouldn’t be an issue. But we all know that isn’t the case, so the franchise should be trying to take the best course of action to develop what the former regime did draft, which is an inexperienced raw project.
As such, he should be getting as much playing time as possible…..somewhere where it doesn’t impact the performance of the NBA team. It just so happens that the team has the means to send him to the D-League where he can play 30+ minutes a night and not have it negatively impact the NBA teams performance. Thus it makes zero sense to have Sene sitting on the NBA bench wasting.
December 17th, 2007 at 11:04 am
“I was thinking of see that too. Is it worth the price of a matinee?”
Most defiently, I paid full price though but I enjoyed the flick.
I wish the Sonics kept Andre Brown, had a few good games with him last year, especially with Swift injured, Thomas being good and then injured, and Petro and Sene not getting much minutes.
December 17th, 2007 at 11:05 am
Crow, doesn’t 82games still rate players position wise based on their respective height in comparison to teammates on the floor?
December 17th, 2007 at 11:08 am
Overall on adjusted +/- Brewer was a -4 last season, making him a bottom quarter small minutes player last season. Will be interesting to see where he ends up this year. Maybe it is a mostly a product of playing with Boozer but his rebounding is pretty weak- his SG opponents outrebound him by a little. I don’t regret not getting him near as much as other draft day choices.
December 17th, 2007 at 11:08 am
“Thus it makes zero sense to have Sene sitting on the NBA bench wasting.”
I think if there weren’t injuries you’d have seen it by now. The only reason it makes sense is that you’re better off having 11 guys on your bench than 10. In that last game we dressed 11 guys, had we sent Sene to the D-League we’re down to 10 and if Collison or Wilcox gets into foul trouble or god forbid hurts themselves we’re down to a three man rotation of guys who can play the four or five.
December 17th, 2007 at 11:13 am
Starting Dec 26 Stampede are home in Boise for 3 weeks straight. So that would be most likely stretch for them to send Sene if they do.
December 17th, 2007 at 11:15 am
That argument is BOGUS!
Sene never gets anything other than garbage minutes. Like when we are down by 20 and there is 2 minutes left to go in the game. Even if all our other bigs went down Sene would still be stuck on the bench. PJ would probably play Green at center before Sene.
December 17th, 2007 at 11:17 am
Thanks xerces i’ll go see it.
I really wish we could have drafted good players in those three years, but then we’d have wally and sund still and no future star in kevin durant. I’m praying swift recovers and is good at the end of the year so we have a big post man to see what it does for our team. He had more potential thats never happened due to injuries.
I’m liking pj for letting heal enough, Sene over brewer is a tough one to swallow and it was a huge suprise, if he was at least the slightest bit serviceable at stopping big post players it would be worth it. With all three picks not helping we don’t have a chance against other teams. Don’t get me wrong, i’m a true homer and use directv just to see green and durant grow, and maybe even swift if i’m lucky.
December 17th, 2007 at 11:23 am
Well, that’s beside the point. If we had drafted an experienced player then it wouldn’t be an issue. But we all know that isn’t the case, so the franchise should be trying to take the best course of action to develop what the former regime did draft, which is an inexperienced raw project.
- OK, I will make this argument more simple. Provide me evidence of one player who has come from the NBDL and played at even a league average level. The NBDL is a sham…it does not teach players how to perform in the NBA any better then those AND 1 pick up games you see on ESPN2 every once in awhile. As I showed in my last post, we picked up one of the best players in the league last year and he was nothing more than a 11th or 12th man. So, please…lets stop using the NBDL and ESPECIALLY Sene’s stats in the NBDL as a crutch to say that he will someday develop into a player.
I’m not sure how to make this more clear…
December 17th, 2007 at 11:24 am
Frozenropers 82games uses height but also presumably some judgment as needed to determine position assignment.
Last season they had him as more likely to be SG than SF than Giricek. That may or may not be accurate but it sounds more likely to be right than not to me- but I don’t know enough to say.
Their position assignment of Sonics last season can be seen from most PG like to most center like reading down the list on this page http://www.82games.com/0607/0607SEAP.HTM
Seems reasonable and shows departures from straight height ranking with Watson Gelabale and Collison that makes sense (at least on Watson and Collison. Gelabale may or may not as it is a tough / close call)
December 17th, 2007 at 11:24 am
Is he French Myk? Ha ha, I had no idea. I’ll just give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and assume it’s the tatoos.
Anyway, it seems like people r split on Swift, and Sene, Luke, and Earl, but it seems pretty unanimous that DW, and JP ain’t worth spending anymore time on(trying to develop). Jeff Green needs to be starting, or the Z master(depending on how PJ is looking at the season). If he insists on starting DW, then I have to admit that it makes more sense to start Luke based on his offensive game(I mean actually having a legitimate one, though he needs to be more assertive with it imo). If he prefers Earl, then it’s gotta be Wally, or Green at the 3 imo, as Green at least won’t try to hijack the offense, and Wally can also put the ball in the bucket without making a mockery of things. Balancing out the lineup a bit, I guess is what I’m tryin’ to say…
December 17th, 2007 at 11:29 am
Keeping Andre Brown was a borderline call if you had roster spot but taking on K Thomas eliminated that. If they could have moved somebody else I would have favored keeping Brown… partly to making a Wilcox trade easier to handle if they found the right deal.
December 17th, 2007 at 11:33 am
I think if there weren’t injuries you’d have seen it by now. The only reason it makes sense is that you’re better off having 11 guys on your bench than 10.
Personally, I don’t even think that justifies it, considering how little it would cost the team to pick up a cheap veteran from the D-league if all we needed as a body to put on the bench for awhile.
December 17th, 2007 at 11:33 am
(Stampede at home soon just over 2 1/2 weeks straight to be more accurate.)
December 17th, 2007 at 11:40 am
My mistake Sonics at 14 players could have kept Brown if they wanted to try.
Dermarr Johnson in the D league. Maybe the inside report is that he just isnt a pro and doesnt deserve another shot but he is an interesting package of size & skill potentials if he brings it and perhaps Sonics could use that type. At least he has a NBA track record with some decent performance on offense and defense though it trailed off quite bit last season.
December 17th, 2007 at 11:51 am
“Personally, I don’t even think that justifies it, considering how little it would cost the team to pick up a cheap veteran from the D-league if all we needed as a body to put on the bench for awhile.”
Whether you think it justifies it, or whether Vinny thinks its bogus doesn’t mean jack to me. I’m just saying what I think thier reasoning is.
No one ever looks at any of these things as though they’re the ones writing the check. Just for one second imagine that you’re running a company that lost 17 million dollars (thier figure not mine) and you had a guy come up to you and say for 500K we could sign a schmuck out of the D-League just so we can send a guy you’re paying 2.1 million down there. How rational is that?
I think once Swift and Thomas are back you’ll see him go down for a couple months to get consistent playing time. While I don’t think there’s a ton of advantage to playing down there for most players, I’d make a small exception for a guy with as limited resume.
December 17th, 2007 at 11:59 am
If I’m correct Brian said that Swift will be back for the Hornets game, is that true ?
December 17th, 2007 at 12:07 pm
Provide me evidence of one player who has come from the NBDL and played at even a league average level.
Kelenna Azubuike, SG (Golden State) - playing a big part in the Golden State rotation this season.
And as far as guys playing down there right now from the last draft that could very well have NBA futures….
1. Morris Almond
2. Gabe Pruitt
3. Alondo Tucker
December 17th, 2007 at 12:09 pm
I’m just saying what I think thier reasoning is.
Thank you Scott. We are aware of the “logic” if you’d call it that, that the team is saying in order to justify Sene sitting on the NBA bench rather than playing every night in Idaho.
We’re saying, we think the logic is bad and it is costing Sene in development. That’s it, plain and simple.
December 17th, 2007 at 12:15 pm
No one ever looks at any of these things as though they’re the ones writing the check.
True, I’ll never purport to being the one needing to write the check. But then again, Bennett and his partners appear to be posturing right now that they could write checks to cover losses for the next 2.5 seasons, until the lease runs out, and not blink an eye.
Thus if it was about development of a possible center who is currently on your roster, you’d think spending another $500K in order to pick up some dead weight at the end of the bench so your project center could get some much needed develpment time, you’d be able to justify writing that check. But that’s just me and I’m not writing the checks.
December 17th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Question
How long will it take for Durant to be as good as Roy?
December 17th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
Yup I read Kelenna Azubuike’s draft profile and I see many similarities with Sene:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kelenna-Azubuike-124/
Menace has pointed out many times that for Sene to even be an average player it would mean that the Sonics basically did something that had never happened before. I mean we talk about how great Sene’s stats were during his stint down there last year. Doesn’t that prove itself that the NBDL is a waste of time? Why would him succeeding down their this year make any difference to his game?
December 17th, 2007 at 12:37 pm
Thus if it was about development of a possible center who is currently on your roster, you’d think spending another $500K in order to pick up some dead weight at the end of the bench so your project center could get some much needed develpment time, you’d be able to justify writing that check. But that’s just me and I’m not writing the checks.
- Perhaps their reasoning is they see Sene the same way many of us see Sene…as a lost cause. Why spend another $500K to try and “develop” something that will never actually develop.
December 17th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
Don’t know the timing question but would Roy level be enough for the team’s #1 to win consistently?
Roy as #1 now and Aldridge better than Wilcox have done well but offensive / defensive efficiency rankings of 14th and 22nd respectively suggest they are still a sub .500 team playing above their heads. They get Oden next season and should be near .500 or above then. We don’t have any guarantee of another impact player coming in or Green developing into a big one fast. I did some analysis of Portland recently and the stats don’t make a strong general argument for Roy lifting the team, more being just a very good individual performer. He was a -2.3 on adjusted team +/- and thus a good ways below league average among big minute guys. He had no positive player pairs last season whereas Durant has just Thomas. Roy is currently showing a -11 on raw team +/- on / off without almost all the slippage on defense. Durant almost exactly the same. Roy might be a decent comparison for Durant near term on impact. Without an Oden and likely without a Thomas sticking around. Not enough by itself to make great strides. It is on Presti to improve his cast and PJ to find the right blend or teach the right performance into existence. And on Kevin to take the next steps personally and provide the assistance to improve teammates and overall team performance.
December 17th, 2007 at 12:45 pm
“Perhaps their reasoning is they see Sene the same way many of us see Sene…as a lost cause. Why spend another $500K to try and “develop” something that will never actually develop.”
Again, the other side of that argument is that if you assume Swift is healthy enough to play by Jan 1, and Thomas is back then you’ve spent that 500K for about 15 D-League games for Mo. If those guys then stay healthy you can get him 40 D-league games the rest of the year if you so choose and not have to spend the 500K.
“How long will it take for Durant to be as good as Roy?”
You honestly think using comparible time frames he’s not better already? Given what Brandon is playing at now, I’d say KD will be better than him next year. Then he gets three years more develpment time to try to get to Brandon’s 23 year old level.
December 17th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
“I watched up until the 3rd and then I went out and saw “I Am Legend” lol, and yes it was better than I expected despite the bad CGI zombies. ”
As a big fan of Richard Matheson and the original novel I thought “Omega Man” was more faithful to the story. In the book the vampires can talk and are a fairly well organized group, which makes it a lot more eerie and changes the overall tone of the book — he’s the “monster” running away from them. In this one the creatures just seemed more like animals. Will Smith did pretty good. He’s one of the few people who can carry a movie with very little to no dialogue.
December 17th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
Roy’s adjusted team +/- was from last season. This season not yet available but might be by mid-season if one or another site fulfills intention to do it.
D league hasnt “produced” many major success stories but Matt Carroll might be another one. And other guys at least stayed in shape and worked on their game there including Mikki Moore and Jason Hart. Chuck Hayes spent some time down there but I don’t know the specifics.
But I agree it isn’t a significant source of talent. Got to get guys into camp if you want surprise additions. This fall Sonics choose close to zero prospecting. I hope they don’t repeat that.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
At same age Durant probably will exceed Roy individually. But will he have more postive team impact? I hope so and he better. I doubt he will have as good a #2 and #3 as Roy will at least next season. Durant in a stong compared to league big 3 should be full of possibility. Durant as #1 with less than rest of league’s good teams at #2 and #3 will find it very hard to be good or great.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
“As a big fan of Richard Matheson and the original novel I thought “Omega Man” was more faithful to the story. In the book the vampires can talk and are a fairly well organized group, which makes it a lot more eerie and changes the overall tone of the book — he’s the “monster” running away from them. In this one the creatures just seemed more like animals.”
Their organization in this movie felt like a loose-end. You’re left wondering why it wasn’t explored.
The first half our of I Am Legend was great, but when the zombies came out of the dark violating the laws of physics and looking like videogame targets instead of virus-corrupted humans, the film got sapped of scariness and fell into Hollywood action cliche. If those zombies had been played by real actors, occupying real space with Will Smith, the movie would have been way creepier and the sense of danger and tragedy more real. Too bad.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Yup I read Kelenna Azubuike’s draft profile and I see many similarities with Sene:
That wasn’t your question now though, was it? You just asked for any example, as such, one was provided and now Crow mentions a few others. Will also be interesting to see how/if Amir Johnson develops any more with Detroit. He got some run time last year late. In addition. Amundson with Philly could be one to watch and see how he develops.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
- Perhaps their reasoning is they see Sene the same way many of us see Sene…as a lost cause. Why spend another $500K to try and “develop” something that will never actually develop.
Could be. Only time and their future actions will tell.
December 17th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
“Will also be interesting to see how/if Amir Johnson develops any more with Detroit. He got some run time last year late. In addition. Amundson with Philly could be one to watch and see how he develops.”
Didn’t Louis Williams spend some time in the D-League last year.
Amir Johnson has said the D-League helped him tremendously. I’d really like to have him on our team. he’s going to be a nice piece for Detroit in the future i do believe.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
Ok Frozenropers, where did you play, you do not know a thing my friend about this game.. Have you ever played the post, of course not.. Have you ever coached, didn’t think so.. Your info is so backwards its comical.. The D league is a joke, have you ever gone to one of their open tryouts mr. d-head, there is alot of talent, but no dicipline.. On hoops Mr frozenD-head I will bury you not only with knowlege of the game, but yes I actually played and not just with myself.. Not trying to impress you mr. D-head totaly irrelevant.. Yes Sene does suck, and Swift does suck, and you my friend do not know anything about hoop. So next time I read one of your comments I will brace myself from laughing at a wannabe blogger.. It’s on Frozenboy, as you my friend will be sorry you ever crossed this great basketball mind… One last thing you do have to have balls to play in this league, you do not know what that is because you have lips…
December 17th, 2007 at 2:21 pm
More meaningless drivel from Mr. “Former NBA player, D-league coach, player evaluator extrodinaire” beantown.
You know, for someone with such great self proclaimed pedigree your posts on here sure seem to lack anything in the realm of any intelligent X & O’s analysis. Not to mention your player talent analysis on here consists of, “He sucks….He has no balls”.
Do you really expect anyone to take you seriously? You sound like a 16 year old wanna be NBA posse member or something.
I mean really, Mr. beantown. After all this job dropping you’ve done, couldn’t you at least bring something to the table other than, “Player X sucks, and Player Y has no balls”.
So either, A) you have all this great insite, experience and knowledge of the NBA but you are too scared to actually talk about it on here, or B) You are just full of shit.
I don’t know which one it is, but option “A” looks to be a long shot at this point based on your posts.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
Holy smokes, Beantown. Very “ballsy” post. I could see you as kind of like a Mr. Buttermaker of the D-League, but on PCP.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Many would say the NBA is an “undisciplined league” as well these days.
What is funny beantown, is you think playing in the NBA in some way means you know something about the game of basketball or gives you some magical credibility when it comes to player evaluation.
There are a lot of NBA players who are at that level soley due to their amazing athletic ability, but carry around a box of rocks on top of their neck and don’t have a clue when it comes to actually understanding the game. So, while you may think it is impressive to keep adding to your every growing on-line resume, why don’t you try adding some unique insite or impress us with your understanding of the X and O’s of the game rather than saying every other player you talk about sucks and has no balls? Just a thought.
December 17th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
“Yes Sene does suck, and Swift does suck, and you my friend do not know anything about hoop.”
While discussing balls, would you have enough to say it to either one of the two guys’ faces?
December 17th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
“Amir Johnson has said the D-League helped him tremendously. I’d really like to have him on our team. he’s going to be a nice piece for Detroit in the future i do believe.”
Amir was really fun to watch in the D-League. He played for the Skyforce and would have helped them win the D-League Finals if he had not been called up just before players could not be let back down into the D-League. Also, lots of Skyforce players have been called up into the league, including Andre Brown and Noel Felix that were called up by the Sonics.
December 17th, 2007 at 3:09 pm
This thread just got even funnier..
December 17th, 2007 at 3:21 pm
Wasn’t Sene on the verge of being sent down anyways? Kurt hasn’t been 100% all year, Swift hasn’t even seen floor time, and if NickC or Weezy went down, we’re screwed. I’m guessing Sene is staying on the squad to give Kurt extended rest during practices as well as insurance during games.
December 17th, 2007 at 3:26 pm
I agree that the D-League is undiciplined. If Sene went down, he’d probably come back even better at tipping rebounds to himself. At least if he stayed with the team, he may learn a few more of the sorely needed basics.
December 17th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
Wasn’t Sene on the verge of being sent down anyways? Kurt hasn’t been 100% all year, Swift hasn’t even seen floor time, and if NickC or Weezy went down, we’re screwed. I’m guessing Sene is staying on the squad to give Kurt extended rest during practices as well as insurance during games.
- Its OK…I realize that it wont be until 2010 that all the Sene supporters will finally admit he isn’t that good.
December 17th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
All I know is that when I was playing basketball I learned a lot more doing drills than I did playing glorified pick up ball. Pick up ball with no discipline only breeds bad habits, not good habits. Therefore, if you are expecting him to do drills you should keep him with the big team.
In all honesty though…we spend way too much time discussing a player who will be out of the league in 2 years. I can’t imagine how much discussion would’ve went on when Olumede Oydedji was on the team…
December 17th, 2007 at 4:06 pm
Ok Mr d-head Frozen boy, what do the sonics run on offense, what do they do on defense.. I know Xs an Os as well as anyone coaching.. I used to watch Bobby Knight tapes on the motion offense, and help defense with my dad as a kid.. So what do they do hero.. I know exactly what they do, and who there options are off of each set, you know why D-head I know the game, yes I have played at Every level as well as Europe, and have coached many teams, and work many camps in the summer.. Bring it on what do they do, I am ready to bury you with knowlege my friend.. And Scott would I say it to their face as far as telling them they suck, totally irrelevant, but yes I am as big as they are, and yes have alot more in the ballbag than they have both together..
December 17th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
We should play “Guess who beantown is” since he’s claimed to play in the NBA and in Europe and is the same size as Rob Swift.
My guesses would be:
Loren Woods
Andreas Glyniadakis
Ruben Boumjte Boumjte
Eddie Elisma
December 17th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
While I wait for your comment mr D-head I will tell you one thing that is a problem on offense for the Sonics.. On any offensive set you have to have spacing, if you don’t, you create a constant overload.. Thats what happens to the Sonics when they try some sets.. What should they do run a 1-4 it spreads out the offense automaticlly, and causes constant motion.. On defense the only one who plays help defese is Wally.. They have no inside out game which would automaticlly again spread the offense..
December 17th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
Considering that Durant and Roy have about the same talent surrounding them and they are both first options on their respective teams in the same division it is a fair comparison.
I hope Scott is right in that Durant will be as good as Brandon next year when it comes to impact. One obvious similarity they have right now is how they want the ball at crunch time. We are lucky to have such a rivalry in the making.
December 17th, 2007 at 4:23 pm
“And Scott would I say it to their face as far as telling them they suck, totally irrelevant, but yes I am as big as they are, and yes have alot more in the ballbag than they have both together.. ”
I’d pay good money to see you say it to Robert.
My guess his comment would be soemthing along the lines of ’so how many NBA checks did your ass cash’.
Hard to believe that someone as big as Robert who knows the game inside and out didn’t pan out. Must be tough.
I’m pretty envious of anyone that was able to make it far in the game, I always knew a lot about the X’s and O’s portion, just not enough to overcome being short, slow and having bad knees.
December 17th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
I know Xs an Os as well as anyone coaching..
After coaching in the D-league, I can see why you might think you know the X and O’s as well as any coach in the game (NCAA, NBA, international, etc..). It is unfortunate that nobody else has realized your brilliance yet and hired you on as the head coach at a fulltime gig. Don’t worry though, someone who knows about balls as well as you say you do, can’t be overlooked for long. Unless of course you were working for Isiah Thomas, then its all about the lip service.
what do the sonics run on offense, what do they do on defense..
I thought you were going to “Wow” us with your knowledge of the X and O’s….not ask working stiffs to answer the questions for you. You are the out of work coach with tons of free time…wow us with the details. Pull out you DVR and walk through the Sonics sets and give us the scoop. Lay it on us.
I used to watch Bobby Knight tapes on the motion offense, and help defense
Yes, beantown, just about everyone who has played organized basketball has at one time or another ran a vertion of Bobby Knight’s motion offense. Bobby’s glad you watched his videos. He hopes you purchased them too.
December 17th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
Scott I cashed alot more checks than Swift and Sene will put together.. I had 12 years of pro basketball, these clowns are out in 2 years.. Scott Robert Swift is not tough, I have worked with alot of big guys on post play, believe me when I tell you he is not even close to tough.. If he was tough he would be in shape, the ACL injury is over, he has no drive he doesn’t want it thats what I see when I watch him play.. My dad would eat him for breakfast if he had him, next time your at a game watch him, is he into the game or is he having a good time.. I can tell you this Scott, I am in my 40s in no way am I in NBA shape but I am in shape, I could play Swift in the post now, do I feel I can play at this level no way, do I feel at my age I can hang with Swift, for a couple of post lessons, not a doubt in my mind…
December 17th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
What is next on the Frozen/Beantown show…whipping them out to see who really has the most balls?
December 17th, 2007 at 4:47 pm
You see Mr. Frozenboy I had Sam Presti in camp as a kid, and was offered a position with the Sonics player dev. had to turn it down because I have children and as a player and a coach you miss all of their soccer games, all of their school activities, and miss them in general.. I also have been approached by some east coast teams, and several college programs.. My kids mean more to me that any of it, so no I haven’t been overlooked, just on hold until my kids get older, then I will be back coaching, thats where I belong.. I think the people who are talking about the NBDL have never actually seen more than 2 games.. It is a showcase, but there is some talent there, you have to know what you need, and what your looking for..
December 17th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
“do I feel at my age I can hang with Swift, for a couple of post lessons, not a doubt in my mind… ”
I hope you’re talking about NBA Live 2008…
December 17th, 2007 at 4:49 pm
The Blazers also have a more inexperienced and younger roster than the Sonics. That they are 12-12 right now is amazing especially considering the teams that they have beaten on their way to twelve wins (Utah-twice, Denver, Dallas, Golden State, Detroit). By contrast, Seattle has only defeated one team with record over .500 (the 12-12 Indiana Pacers).
The Blazers and Sonics are both giving up over 110 points per 100 possessions with Roy or Durant on the court. Both teams are significantly better defensively without Roy or Durant off the court. However, opposing SGs have a PER of 13 with Roy on the court for the Blazers while opposing SGs have a PER of 17 with Durant on the court for the Sonics. The age differential is something worth taking into consideration when comparing the two players. However, a comparison between Durant and Carmelo at 19 may not necessarily favor Kevin either. It should be noted that Carmelo’s shooting is one of the reasons why Denver has had difficulties scoring this season.
December 17th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Hmm based on some of the clues I’ve tried to gather on Beantown…my vote is Beantown is none other than Greg Kite…
December 17th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
All I know is that when I was playing basketball I learned a lot more doing drills than I did playing glorified pick up ball.
Myk, I agree there has to be tha first stage of learning in practice. However, that is suppose to be what Sene, Swift, Petro were working on in the offseasons and during summer league and training camps.
Did you not have to at some point actually take those drills (lets say in Sene’s case - practicing posting up on the block, holding his man behind while recieving the entry pass, and then working on a baby hook to both his right and left sides) and start applying them in a game in order for you to really get good at them.
I used to practice post moves and coming off screens shooting jump shots tell my teammates wouldn’t stay out there any longer and then I’d practice them longer by myself. And that was all good, but the moves didn’t become second nature until I could do them at full speed against opposing defenses pounding on me. At some point you’ve got to take that step of applying the practice to real time, game speed situations.
December 17th, 2007 at 4:53 pm
Frozenboy, ok tell me what is Bobby Knight known for when he ran the motion offense, if you don’t know this if I were you I would go to my toilet and stick my head in there. So if you watched the tapes or know of them, what was he known for..
December 17th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
No ajw I am talking any schoolyard in the land my man, c’mon don’t tell me you think Swift has G. Myk, c’mon Greg Kite played against him, I will He was better than Swift will be, and Greg Kite was lucky he played as long as he did.. He used to come in when Parish would rest and beat on you….
December 17th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
“Hmm based on some of the clues I’ve tried to gather on Beantown…my vote is Beantown is none other than Greg Kite…” {Myk}
My guess is Marc Acres.
December 17th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
Frozenboy listen up you may learn something.. The Sonics run a 3 out 2 in as most teams do in the league.. It’s the options that present itself, according to the defense. The Sonics run alot of zippers, which is options off a sreen from one side to another.. When there is a shooter in they will often run this.. They also wiil run options for Durant off screens on the elbow, or further out of the wing.. They also will run a motion with down screens as the options.. On defense they play a shell like defense, opening to the ball being able to help because you see the ball. They wiil also run a 25 witch is defending an area opposed to a man, with this you can get beat bad off of good screens… Bobby Knight was famous for back screens in his offense alot of his screening came of off of back cuts and open lay ups… C’mon frozenboy you didn’t know this, staying after practice working on your game, where did it get you hoop wise.. I did the same thing and it got me a nice contract, am I lucky no doubt and there wasn’t a day I took it for granted, I was blessed with size, atheticism, and great coaching which caused me to keep my attitude in check, instead of them kissing my ass they made me work..
December 17th, 2007 at 5:23 pm
They have no inside out game which would automaticlly again spread the offense.
That’s been discussed quite a bit here. I believe that to be primarily due to a lack of post skills by Wilcox and his inability to recognize a double team, when/if one ever comes and his in-ability to pass out of the double team before the said defender gets to him.
Given the Sonics current personel, ideally when they get Durant in a mis-match situation (with a smaller guard on him) they should immediately send him to the strong side block to post up with Wally World going to the weak side wing. Then Durant works on the guard in the post and when/if the double team comes, he passes back out, with the Sonics rotating the ball (either with a skip pass over the top or around the ouside, to the weak side (Wally World) wing for the open jump shot.
On defense the only one who plays help defese is Wally..
Not exactly. Nick Collison is probably the Sonics best help defender. Probably one of the better players on the roster at understanding spacing on offense too. He just unfortunately doesn’t have an NBA level post game to go with his instincts so he gets relagated to put backs and jump shots for his offensive impact.
December 17th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
“On defense they play a shell like defense, opening to the ball being able to help because you see the ball.”
One area I think you’ve got to give PJ a little credit for is that you can actually tell that he’s showing shell principles. Sadly we still don’t have the weakside defenders to make it work on a consistent basis but at least you can see the principal at work.
I think Green shows a bit of promise as a team defender but he’s definately not there yet. Wally’s a pretty good help defender and I think he’d be more effective on that end of the court if his foot speed was still where it was before the knee injuries. I’ve actually been pretty impressed by what he’s brought to the court this year, with the injuries last year I wondered if he’d be able to be at all productive.
December 17th, 2007 at 5:48 pm
Frozenboy, ok tell me what is Bobby Knight known for when he ran the motion offense, So if you watched the tapes or know of them,
I never watched Bobby Knight’s tapes, nor have I ever said I did. I have run many versions of the motion offense at both the High School and College level. Ableit, only the NAIA level because obviously, my balls were not as big as your balls.
But the key to the motion offense has always been spacing. You have to maintian good spacing in the motion offense or it breaks down. Though Bobby Knight was not the father of the motion offense, Iba was, but Bobby Knight did what he could to perfect the motion offense. What’d Bobby Knight say about his offense? Heck I don’t know…..if they ran the motion offense long enough he would guarantee they could get an open layup.
I always had a great understanding of the game, could recognize mismatches, breakdown a defense and had a sweet jumpshot (Hit 9 threes in a college game). Always was a step ahead of the defense in knowing where my teammates were going to be and when and where passing lanes were going to open up.
December 17th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
We should play “Guess who beantown is” since he’s claimed to play in the NBA and in Europe and is the same size as Rob Swift.
My guesses would be:
beantown is none other than, the boards favorite whipping boy:
Olumede Oydedji
December 17th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
Did you not have to at some point actually take those drills (lets say in Sene’s case - practicing posting up on the block, holding his man behind while recieving the entry pass, and then working on a baby hook to both his right and left sides) and start applying them in a game in order for you to really get good at them.
- Ahh, but see the biggest disconnet we are having is that you are assuming that the NBDL game situations provides any benefit whatsover, which obviously I don’t. He could probably get just as good of games as staying around here in Seattle over the Summer and playing ball with all the Seattle boys over at Hec Ed. (which is not a compliment to the seattle boys by the way)
beantown is none other than, the boards favorite whipping boy:
Olumede Oydedji
- Somewhere Luke Ridnour just got a little sad….
December 17th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
C’mon frozenboy you didn’t know this, staying after practice working on your game, where did it get you hoop wise..
December 17th, 2007 at 6:07 pm
- Ahh, but see the biggest disconnet we are having is that you are assuming that the NBDL game situations provides any benefit whatsover, which obviously I don’t.
That is the disconnect then, because I believe the D-league provides more benefit for putting those practice skills to work in live game situations more so than sitting on a bench every night watching.
December 17th, 2007 at 6:12 pm
C’mon frozenboy you didn’t know this, staying after practice working on your game, where did it get you hoop wise..
Well, don’t know what happened to that post. The long version appears to be gone so here’s the summary version.
It got me a high priced education and this good paying career after this 6′2″ combo guard realized there wasn’t going to be an NBA contract waiting at the end of the rainbow. It did get me a nice trip overseas to Australia though. Beat up on a bunch of their club teams up and down the east coast, then finished it off by beating their Jr. National Team up in Brisbane during Worlds Fair.
December 17th, 2007 at 7:01 pm
“beantown is none other than, the boards favorite whipping boy:
Olumede Oydedji ”
Hm, if he’s in his 40’s, there’s no way he can be OO. He’s got to be Kevin Willis!
December 17th, 2007 at 7:10 pm
I don’t really care who he is, I just want to know if balls are measured by size, weight or quantity?
December 17th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
We should play “Guess who beantown is” since he’s claimed to play in the NBA and in Europe and is the same size as Rob Swift.
Detlef or Ostertag.
December 17th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
I think beantown is Joe Kleine…but I vaguely remember him saying something a few weeks ago about chasing Dale Ellis around screens back in the day, so maybe not.
Maybe it’s Joe Forte…
December 17th, 2007 at 7:21 pm
The D-League is still pretty new, so that may be why it’s difficult to find alot of examples of guys who’ve made it from there at this point. Whether the D-League is going to be any good, or not, or whether Sene’s going to be any good, or not, the principle is that u give things time before passing too much judegement, or giving up on them completely. Sene may not have been the right pick, but he still deserves the same chance as Swift, and Petro, and the rest of the picks. Luke Ridnour was a 14 pick, and was basically handed the starting pg job, so the point is that Mo hasn’t really been given a shot regardless imo.
Finally, I don’t get one thing Menace says(no offense Menace), but when u say that for him to become even average the Sonics would have to do something that has never been done in NBA history? I know that’s n0t worded correctly, but I still don’t agree with that Menace(4 real). Like I said, I won’t try to push Mo Sene on anyone(& me & Menace already agreed to disagree on him awhile back), but I do feel he deserves the same opportunities as everyone else at least. If he can get comfortable on the court, then his defensive presence could help in limited stretches imo…
December 17th, 2007 at 7:23 pm
If beantown turns out to be Detlef, I’m gonna fall out of my chair laughing. There’s just something completely absurd and hysterical about that thought.
Balls…Detlef.
Detlef…balls.
Hmmm…
And Dick, knowing beantown, I’m guessing balls are measured by weight.
December 17th, 2007 at 7:30 pm
I just want to know if balls are measured by size, weight or quantity?
Volume of water displacement. Just like ocean going vessels.
December 17th, 2007 at 7:54 pm
Yes I’ve figured it out!! Beantown is none other than…Vinny Del Negro!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinny_Del_Negro
December 17th, 2007 at 7:56 pm
“Finally, I don’t get one thing Menace says(no offense Menace), but when u say that for him to become even average the Sonics would have to do something that has never been done in NBA history? I know that’s n0t worded correctly, but I still don’t agree with that Menace(4 real). Like I said, I won’t try to push Mo Sene on anyone(& me & Menace already agreed to disagree on him awhile back), but I do feel he deserves the same opportunities as everyone else at least. If he can get comfortable on the court, then his defensive presence could help in limited stretches imo…”
Its just my feeling that no player in the history of the league, with the amount of experience Mo Sene has/had when drafted has gone on to be servicable in the NBA. Most players drafted have shown they are capable of some success prior to coming into the league. Whether it be city league, grade school, high school, college, or overseas. Besides the one nike hoops summit game and his short stint in the NBDL last season……ask yourself….has he ever had proven success as a basketball player? The answer is no.
Even players like Diop and Ervin Johnson showed they could play at the high school and college level. Rob Swift was a McDonalds all american. Hell even Manute Bol played high school ball and college in the US. Kelenna Azubuike played at Kentucky.
I don’t know if there has ever been a player as raw/inexperienced as Sene ever to be drafted into the league. Most people on this board have more hoops experience than he does. There are players who have played their entire lives at a high level that have not succeeded in the NBA. What are the chances that Sene does? I don’t know, but from what I’ve seen so far…..not much.
I hope he does well. Crazy for me to write that. But I’m just being realistic. The odds are stacked against him in a big big way. He is a lotto ticket. It just seems like a tough road for the kid to learn this game on the fly on an NBA level.
December 17th, 2007 at 8:09 pm
Duncan with 26 and 13 in less than 20 minutes against Amare!
December 17th, 2007 at 8:09 pm
I bet that “beantown” is Mark Acres.
http://www.celtic-nation.com/interviews/mark_acres/mark_acres_page3.htm
December 17th, 2007 at 8:15 pm
“Did you not have to at some point actually take those drills (lets say in Sene’s case - practicing posting up on the block, holding his man behind while recieving the entry pass, and then working on a baby hook to both his right and left sides) and start applying them in a game in order for you to really get good at them.”
I agree with that. At some point you need to put these skills/drills into play. But is Sene there yet? Can he even do the basic fundamental things with no pressure/defense? I’d like to think so…..but who knows.
Playing, on any level, has to be better than sitting.
December 17th, 2007 at 9:05 pm
frozenropers, good to hear you played in Oz back in the day. the competition is still at a high level here despite a massive drop in interest. which team did you play for?
December 17th, 2007 at 9:06 pm
Mr Frozenboy, I am not done with you yet, you beat up on a couple of club teams in Australia, then why didn’t you get a contract. Do you know how many divisions there are over there….
Also, if you were a shooter, you should have been at least looked at or did you suck Mr frozenboy.. I know alot of People who played over there, some of the teams are owned bt people from here.. So mr I hit 9 3s in a game, please.. Have you ever tried to block Gary Paytons shot, play Sean Kemp in the post, cover Carl Malone, dunk on Scottie Pippen, I have, and you know why Mr frozenboy I worked my ass off, unlike Swift and Sene..
December 17th, 2007 at 9:10 pm
I recently put up 30 in a mens league game. Pretty sure nobody cares. I know I don’t. But this is the internet so lets call it 50 on 100% shooting. I piss the most.
December 17th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
I had a dream once where I was dunking like Shawn Kemp. It was ridiculous! There I was - a 5-11 white boy going insane, rocking the rim over and over again. Nobody could stop me! I was hanging in the air for 15 seconds, catching all kinds of crazy lobs, then slamming from every conceivable angle. One hand, two hands, behind my head, tomahawk - it didn’t matter. I must’ve scored 40 points on dunks alone just in that one dream alone.
And just for good measure, I tea-bagged all the chumps who tried to guard me. I doubt if any of the guys in my dream would say I had no balls.
Top that, beantown.
December 17th, 2007 at 9:26 pm
Brandon may not be an all-defensive team type just yet, but didnt Melo shoot 5-17 last night? While Roy puts up 26/11. He can atleast get up for a challenge.
And did anyone notice who ESPN highlighted in thier ‘key play of the game’ segment? Clearout for Brandon and the ensuing layup to seal the win. That is exactly the type of play I expect to see out of KD.
Durant v. Roy..Just the first of many we can only hope…Like the early days of Magic v. Bird.
What an amazing Christmas present!.
December 17th, 2007 at 9:32 pm
“Have you ever tried to block Gary Paytons shot, play Sean Kemp in the post, cover Carl Malone, dunk on Scottie Pippen”
For someone that knows the game so well, you did manage to misspell two of the four players names you mentioned. Good show.
I’m just having fun here:)
December 17th, 2007 at 9:39 pm
Beantown = Frank Brickowski.
Right era, right mentality, still lives in Seattle…only problem is I can’t figure out any connection between Brick and Boston.
December 17th, 2007 at 9:42 pm
Fair Menace, but I guess I still think that it’s not that big of a stretch that he could become decent. I would be more afraid if he had all that experience u mentioned, and was still where he’s at as a player. Basketball is not rocket science(not that hard to figure out), and has as much to do with confidence as anything imo, so I hold out hope, but i can also concede that in the end he may not pan out.
Note: I’m not trying to defend the FO that drafted him either, I think they did a pretty terrible job over the years, but what I do defend is that he should be getting the same opportunity the others have gotten.
December 17th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
“Beantown = Frank Brickowski.
Right era, right mentality, still lives in Seattle…only problem is I can’t figure out any connection between Brick and Boston.” {Sam K}
Yeah, that’s why Frank Brickowski doesn’t fit. Also, “beantown” has never claimed to live in the Seattle region. In fact, I think that most of his comments — such as the ones about Robert Swift — lend me to believe that he’s from California.
Anyway, the interview with Mark Acres that I cited — along with the guy’s career arc — make him the most plausible answer to this whole question. I, therefore, am going to stick by that assumption until “beantown” finally outs himself.
December 17th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
frozenropers, good to hear you played in Oz back in the day. the competition is still at a high level here despite a massive drop in interest. which team did you play for?
I didn’t play on their team down there, we went down there with a team and played them. Beat up on a couple of the club teams in Syndey, Newcastle, Tyee and on up the coast to Brisbane. Played their Jr. National team that year in Brisbane. They were loads of fun after the games.
December 17th, 2007 at 9:57 pm
you got me wondering beantown.
December 17th, 2007 at 9:59 pm
Have you ever tried to block Gary Paytons shot, play Sean Kemp in the post, cover Carl Malone, dunk on Scottie Pippen,
I think that question has already been answered, but just in case you (Olumede Oydedji) didn’t follow along, No.
December 17th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
Speaking of the D-League, Sonics Centers, and the former FO. Mikki Moore was in studio being interviewed on NBATV. Former D-Leaguer, and Sonic played over 2000 min last year, and led the league in FG% at 60.9%. They mentioned that he gave 500K back to the Pistons, so he could get out of his contract to go get time in the DLeague. Man him, & AD would be nice to have around right about now…
December 17th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
Beantown- Has got to be Frank Brickowski, He finished his career with Boston. Brickowski also played in Europe and still shows up at Sonic games.
December 17th, 2007 at 10:04 pm
But is Sene there yet? Can he even do the basic fundamental things with no pressure/defense?
We’ve seen him hit that baby jump hook from the right block and we’ve seen him miss it badly from the same place. We’ve seen him hit a little turn around jumper from the left block. I think he’s got enough of the fundamental moves down that he would benefit from extended game action in the D-league. Its not like he can’t continue to work on his post moves outside of game time in Idaho.
Playing, on any level, has to be better than sitting.
Agreed. Especially for Sene right now.
December 17th, 2007 at 10:07 pm
“Duncan with 26 and 13 in less than 20 minutes against Amare!”
While Duncan put up the pretty numbers, Amare got the last laugh as Duncan was unable to prevent Amare from securing a critical offensive rebound that allowed the Suns to take a lead in the final twenty seconds that they would not relinquish.
I am also looking forward to the battle between Roy and Durant over the next decade. It’s the Northwest version of Wade vs. LeBron.
December 17th, 2007 at 10:10 pm
If beantown is Brickowski that’s one dude I’m not messing with.
December 17th, 2007 at 10:17 pm
“Sean” Kemp? “Carl” Malone? Haha this thread just keeps getting better and better.
For the record, I guarded r&b singer Omarion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omarion) of the hit boy band B2K in a pickup game at my local gym. My balls are bigger than all of yours!
December 17th, 2007 at 10:20 pm
frozen - were you with ‘athletes in action’ or perhaps one of the visiting college teams?
December 17th, 2007 at 10:20 pm
Menace Says:
“I don’t know if there has ever been a player as raw/inexperienced as Sene ever to be drafted into the league. Most people on this board have more hoops experience than he does. There are players who have played their entire lives at a high level that have not succeeded in the NBA. What are the chances that Sene does? I don’t know, but from what I’ve seen so far…..not much. ”
Sene is the answer to the question we’ve all wondered… what if I was 7′, rediculously long arms, and all the physical ability in the world, could I make it in the NBA?? I’m afraid what we are seeing is if a guy had no skills or expereince, the answer is a resounding NO–it takes more than that. PJ has come to the same conclusion as Bob Hill, this guy isn’t playing on a team that literally has no center.
December 17th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
hoooop Says:
“If beantown is Brickowski that’s one dude I’m not messing with. ”
Same with me if he is Kevin Willlis.
December 17th, 2007 at 10:27 pm
frozen - were you with ‘athletes in action’ or perhaps one of the visiting college teams?
A visiting squad of High-School All Stars from the state.
December 17th, 2007 at 10:32 pm
woohoooo!
post 200!!!
2 days since a new thread, it is like summer, only with a lot less light.
December 17th, 2007 at 10:32 pm
“For the record, I guarded r&b singer Omarion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omarion) of the hit boy band B2K in a pickup game at my local gym.”
Dude you win totally. I mean I can brag about getting killed by a couple former NBA players on the court, but they were just ballers, you were on the court with a boy band member and are willing to brag about it.
December 17th, 2007 at 10:38 pm
On Portland, who was it that posted a while back the idea of them signing Lebron in FA? Don’t know if they would have any cap room at all. At first I thought why would he come out west and play for a bad team… then I realized that Oden coming back, along with Aldredge, Roy, and a wealthy owner. Could there be a better built team to win championships for years to come?
December 17th, 2007 at 10:48 pm
please don’t even think that.
December 17th, 2007 at 10:52 pm
James, Roy, Aldridge, Oden? I think the Pacific Northwest would be renamed the Portland Trailblazers if that lineup were to step on the court.
December 17th, 2007 at 11:01 pm
RE Sene
“Fair Menace, but I guess I still think that it’s not that big of a stretch that he could become decent.”
Your optimistic and I can’t fault that. I’d love for him to be good because I want this team to be good. But its just that its hard for me to share that optimism because of my points above.
What constitutes decent? Decent for a Sonics center? Decent for a #10?
December 17th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
@ TukwilaSonic
That’s a good idea. Now get off our sonics board.
December 17th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
“Sene is the answer to the question we’ve all wondered… what if I was 7′, rediculously long arms, and all the physical ability in the world, could I make it in the NBA?? I’m afraid what we are seeing is if a guy had no skills or expereince, the answer is a resounding NO–it takes more than that. PJ has come to the same conclusion as Bob Hill, this guy isn’t playing on a team that literally has no center.”
boo ya
December 17th, 2007 at 11:18 pm
Not really optimistic, but realistic Menace. And decent generally. I already conceded the draft history of the former FO, and not only conceded it, but pointed it out way back, and many times at that. As if it really needed pointing out.
We have Kurt Thomas, and Nick Collison at center, and the other 3 are still young, so I don’t buy that above. Sene’s the youngest(and most inexperienced) of 5 centers on the team, and that’s what I think PJ realizes as much of anything.
Anyway, I promised I wouldn’t push him on anyone, so Ill stop, especially since no ones trying to push Swift or Petro on me(and thanks EVERYONE for that)…
December 17th, 2007 at 11:29 pm
Beantown=Eduardo Najera. C’mon guys, don’t think Boston…
December 17th, 2007 at 11:31 pm
Felix Says:
“@ TukwilaSonic
”
That’s a good idea. Now get off our sonics board.
It was just a weak moment…
December 18th, 2007 at 1:00 am
- Alot of this stuff in the thread is pretty petty…but I have to admit it is one of the more enjoyable things I’ve read here for awhile.
I recently put up 30 in a mens league game. Pretty sure nobody cares. I know I don’t. But this is the internet so lets call it 50 on 100% shooting. I piss the most.
- I got some guy to elbow me in the head last week in a men’s league game…does that give me bigger or smaller balls?
Sene is the answer to the question we’ve all wondered… what if I was 7′, rediculously long arms, and all the physical ability in the world, could I make it in the NBA?? I’m afraid what we are seeing is if a guy had no skills or expereince, the answer is a resounding NO–it takes more than that. PJ has come to the same conclusion as Bob Hill, this guy isn’t playing on a team that literally has no center.
- One of the best posts in a long time…
Sene may not have been the right pick, but he still deserves the same chance as Swift, and Petro, and the rest of the picks. Luke Ridnour was a 14 pick, and was basically handed the starting pg job, so the point is that Mo hasn’t really been given a shot regardless imo.
- This argument has always just killed me. Luke is considered by everyone (even at this point his supporters) as a pretty big underachiever…yet when the topic of Sene comes up people compare the two guys…when Luke Ridnour has done more in his most horrible months that Sene will most likely ever do.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:37 am
For the record, I played in (and helped win) a mens’ league grand final a couple of months back, and sailed in from the weak side put the league MVP’s first shot into the cheap seats. That felt good.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:40 am
The secret to beantown’s success in the league for 12 years:
12 COJONES ENLARGEMENT PROCEDURES…
December 18th, 2007 at 1:46 am
Myk, slow down, I didn’t compare the two players. Where did u see that? I was making a basic point that u actually give your players a chance before assuming they’ll never make it. The point so it’s even clearer is that Sene is the only one of our recent draft picks(last 5 years) to not get a realistic chance yet. That’s all. Nothing outrageous…
December 18th, 2007 at 1:51 am
“On hoops Mr frozenD-head I will bury you not only with knowlege of the game, but yes I actually played and not just with myself…”–beantown.
beantown played and not just with himself…
December 18th, 2007 at 1:51 am
Myk, come on, u’re reachin’ on that one man for real…
December 18th, 2007 at 2:25 am
By the way, I beat an old drunk dude in a game of 21 down at greenlake. I’m not sure if that takes balls, or not, but I thought I’d throw it out there…
December 18th, 2007 at 2:34 am
Hey, maybe that old drunk dude was beantown? I mean the guy did have a pretty reasonable post game, although I don’t remember any 5 ft. 6 guys who actually had a back to the basket game in the NBA.
Ha ha just givin’ u a hard time beantown…
December 18th, 2007 at 8:45 am
I do have to give beantown some props, after all his crap talkin’ and love of big balls, he did finally bring some solid basketball discussion to the table.
beantown, Bobby Knight got the backside screen concept in his motion offense from watching Princeton. Bobby may have been known for it….especially the allyoop dunk off the weakside backdoor screen but it wasn’t an original concept that he created.
Back to the guess who beantown really is program. It dawned on me on the way home late last night……
He likes big balls and he can not lie.
You other brothers can’t deny…..
beantown is none other than….
John Ameachi
December 18th, 2007 at 9:33 am
Myk, slow down, I didn’t compare the two players. Where did u see that? I was making a basic point that u actually give your players a chance before assuming they’ll never make it. The point so it’s even clearer is that Sene is the only one of our recent draft picks(last 5 years) to not get a realistic chance yet. That’s all. Nothing outrageous…
- But the whole point is if Luke Ridnour is considered a failure and Sene isn’t even 1/10th of the player why can you even justify that he deserves a shot. On top of that, if Sene “deserved” a shot he would definately be playing more. People need to realize that there is a reason why he isn’t playing…coaches are normally pretty rational and give minutes to players who deserve them.
December 18th, 2007 at 10:31 am
“coaches are normally pretty rational and give minutes to players who deserve them.”
I bet you can name a prominent coach still active in this league who was notorious for rarely playing rookies. And that’s rational, right? If you want to win you play the best players, and those usually aren’t the ones lacking experience. But if your primary focus is development, what’s rational then?
I think it’s not even an issue of what Sene does or doesn’t deserve: given his raw qualities, the organization owes it to itself to do what it can to bring him along. That was the whole point of drafting him. Basketball isn’t in anyone’s blood. Diamonds in the rough don’t cut and polish themselves. If Sene’s going to be a wasted pick it shouldn’t be for lack of trying on the part of the organization; if he is, the fault lies less in drafting him than in not following through on the obvious commitment that drafting him required.
December 18th, 2007 at 1:17 pm
I bet you can name a prominent coach still active in this league who was notorious for rarely playing rookies. And that’s rational, right? If you want to win you play the best players, and those usually aren’t the ones lacking experience. But if your primary focus is development, what’s rational then?
- Ummm, is it any more rational to just randomly play rookies in the name of development when they haven’t proven in practice or during their limited minutes they deserve the playing time?
Its not like George Karl didn’t play Eric Snow or Earl Watson because they were rookies…it is because he felt the veterans he had were better than them. In some cases I can admit that coaches end up getting a little in love with their veteran players. However, in almost all cases that is because the coach has a relationship (i.e. coached them for awhile) with the veteran. PJ has no such problem.
I think it’s not even an issue of what Sene does or doesn’t deserve: given his raw qualities, the organization owes it to itself to do what it can to bring him along. That was the whole point of drafting him. Basketball isn’t in anyone’s blood. Diamonds in the rough don’t cut and polish themselves. If Sene’s going to be a wasted pick it shouldn’t be for lack of trying on the part of the organization; if he is, the fault lies less in drafting him than in not following through on the obvious commitment that drafting him required.
- So it makes sense to repeatedly polish an old rock in hopes that it will become a diamond just because someone before you said that it would happen?
December 18th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
“So it makes sense to repeatedly polish an old rock in hopes that it will become a diamond just because someone before you said that it would happen?”
Who said it *would* happen? Is this the straw man you keep conjuring that says that Sene is currently actually good? And isn’t the point people are making here that, yes, he requires polishing? What anyone had to know when considering him as a draft pick and taking him on as a draft pick is that he would be a long-term project. Imagine wedding even a modicum of basketball skill to his size and athleticism. You think it’s foregone that that’s an impossibility. Fine. Maybe you’ll be proven “right,” but for the right reasons? I’m not so sure.
December 18th, 2007 at 3:19 pm
Ok frozenboy you know a little about hoop, notice I said a little.. Yes Bobby Knight was a Pete Carrill fan, he loves the offense Princeton runs, do you know what it’s called frozenboy 5 high where the offese starts anf finishes at the elbows.. The back cuts created off this if done right will produce lay up after lay up.. It’s comical to me some of the players you pick me to be, I played against most of them, and yes did alot of them too.. Frozenboy can you dunk, no ups, set shooter, no effective move to the whole, what happened with all that time you spent working after practice.. I actually worke a couple of camps where Pete Carrill worked at as well, he was one of the nicest guys in basketball, and what a great coach, and communicator. Thats where PJ has his problem communicating in an effective yet positive way..
December 18th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
“… and yes did a lot of them too.”
Wait. So you are John Amaechi?
December 18th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
I will tell you folks this I talked to some people today who are somewhat involved in the Sonics Oaklahoma City move, there is interest of a group who seriously wants to buy the Sonics and keep them here..As we know Bennett said the teak is not for sale, if he is forced to play out the lease of 2010, then that will give time for these potential buyers to develop a plan.. So hang in there, no one is going anywhere yet.. I am not from here my wife is from Seattle, thats why I am here now. I only got to see it passing through as a player, I do have to say it is great out here, now I am not getting sentimental frozenboy as I would take you to the hole and dunk on your ass…
December 18th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
No not quite moffet as I got more women actually throwing themselves at me and you got to take your pick.. You ever have that problem, or they sneak throgh security and make it to your room, didn’t think so. How about when they hand you a note telling you what they want to do to you with their number on it.. I could go on until I am blue in ths face with stories about women who chase athletes, but it got old quick.. When you show up to play the team ypu already played and guess who is waiting for you the three women you had been with, not a good scene, thats why I got married after I played..
December 18th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Who said it *would* happen? Is this the straw man you keep conjuring that says that Sene is currently actually good? And isn’t the point people are making here that, yes, he requires polishing? What anyone had to know when considering him as a draft pick and taking him on as a draft pick is that he would be a long-term project. Imagine wedding even a modicum of basketball skill to his size and athleticism. You think it’s foregone that that’s an impossibility. Fine. Maybe you’ll be proven “right,” but for the right reasons? I’m not so sure.
- My argument is simply that no matter how hard you polish sh!t it still remains sh!t. By your argument the best athletes would also be the best players and that simply isn’t the case. The guy does not even possess the basic skills a HS player requires…
December 18th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
Frozenboy can you dunk, no ups, set shooter, no effective move to the whole, what happened with all that time you spent working after practice..
10 years ago I could dunk….sure as heck can’t now. Left hand is just as good as the right hand going to the bucket. No set shot Buford here…..give me an inch of space and you’d regret it.
now I am not getting sentimental frozenboy as I would take you to the hole and dunk on your ass…
Hey there twinkle toes! You stay away from my hole or I’ll go all Hanson Brothers on you!
December 18th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Frozenboy alot of people can dunk I mean have you ever thrown it down on someone look them in the eye and go back on D, it is a great feeling..
December 18th, 2007 at 9:50 pm
Myk, my point had nothing to do with Lukes’ play. Just the fact that he was a 14 pick, and got more than a fair opportunity. Heck, even 2nd rnder Gelabale has gotten more pt than Sene. That’s all. Sene is a 10 pick, which is higher than any other pick we’ve had in years other than KD, or Green, so why just trash him without giving him some actual time. It’s bad enough that we’ve wasted so many picks over the years, why make it worse by just cutting a lottery pick b4 giving him a shot. It doesn’t make sense man…
December 18th, 2007 at 10:33 pm
Myk, I think Earls’ rookie coach was Nate…
December 19th, 2007 at 9:08 am
I mean have you ever thrown it down on someone look them in the eye and go back on D, it is a great feeling..
No, can’t say I’ve ever done that. Only really dunked on a guy once in a game and that was when the weak side defense was slow reacting to a drive down the lane, coming off the left wing. Just didn’t feel the need to stare the guy down and show him up again after having just embarrassed him in front of his home crowd.
I preferred to stick the dagger in their heart and just let the emotion drain out of them as I ran back down on “D”.
December 19th, 2007 at 7:37 pm
“Myk, my point had nothing to do with Lukes’ play. Just the fact that he was a 14 pick, and got more than a fair opportunity. Heck, even 2nd rnder Gelabale has gotten more pt than Sene. That’s all. Sene is a 10 pick, which is higher than any other pick we’ve had in years other than KD, or Green, so why just trash him without giving him some actual time. It’s bad enough that we’ve wasted so many picks over the years, why make it worse by just cutting a lottery pick b4 giving him a shot. It doesn’t make sense man…”
But in limited time given to Gelabale you can/could tell he can play. Ridnour too. Sene…..not so much. Nobody is saying cut the guy (not happening anyway with his extension). What we are saying is that even in limited exposure to us fans…..its pretty clear he has a long long long long long long way to go. They extended him. Thats proof that they aren’t done with him/are giving him a chance.
December 19th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
Petro got the extension. Thankfully, the Sonics don’t have to make the call on Sene’s 4th year until next fall.
December 19th, 2007 at 8:00 pm
Oh wait, you’re right… 3rd & 4th years are both team options now. Sene was indeed extended for the 3rd year. Makes sense… falls in line with the other expiring contracts in 2010.
December 19th, 2007 at 8:01 pm
Make that 2009.
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July 2nd, 2008 at 10:32 am
Asia
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July 2nd, 2008 at 10:38 am
Mercedes
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July 2nd, 2008 at 10:58 am
Battle
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July 2nd, 2008 at 11:05 am
Phone
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July 2nd, 2008 at 11:12 am
Google
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July 2nd, 2008 at 11:15 am
Browser
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July 2nd, 2008 at 11:24 am
Mercedes
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July 2nd, 2008 at 11:29 am
Browser
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July 2nd, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Google
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July 2nd, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Mazda
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July 2nd, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Sea
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July 2nd, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Battle
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July 2nd, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Phone
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