11/16/08 Box Score: Sonics 92 Hornets 123
Posted on Wednesday, January 16th, 2008 at 9:16 pm by Big Chris
Yeouch! The Seattle Supersonics simply got their butts handed to them tonight. The only Hornet who didn’t abuse the Sonics was Morris Peterson (1-9 shooting) but he still was a +2 in +/-.
Kevin Durant led the Sonics in scoring with 19 points on 9 of 15 shooting. Earl Watson had 17 points and 11 assists. Wally Szczerbiak contributed 14 points from the bench.
The only stat column the Sonics held an advantage over the Hornets was the Free Throw percentage. That’s it.
Reported attendance was 9882 people.
(9-29)
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(26-12)
| Seattle | |||||||||||||||
| Name | Min | FG | 3Pt | FT | +/- | Off | Reb | Ast | TO | Stl | BS | BA | PF | Pts | |
| K. Durant | G | 29:31 | 9-15 | 1-2 | 1-1 | -8 | 1 | 7 | 6 | 4 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 20 |
| E. Watson | G | 24:25 | 6-9 | 2-2 | 3-3 | -8 | 1 | 3 | 11 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 17 |
| K. Thomas | C | 22:29 | 5-8 | 0-0 | 2-2 | -11 | 1 | 5 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 3 | 12 |
| J. Green | F | 27:55 | 4-13 | 0-0 | 1-1 | -22 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 3 | 2 | 9 |
| N. Collison | F | 22:23 | 1-6 | 0-1 | 0-0 | -1 | 1 | 5 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
| L. Ridnour | 23:35 | 0-3 | 0-1 | 3-4 | -23 | 0 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 3 | |
| W. Szczerbiak | 23:17 | 6-11 | 2-3 | 0-0 | -14 | 0 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 14 | |
| D. Wilkins | 21:25 | 0-4 | 0-1 | 0-0 | -26 | 0 | 2 | 5 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 0 | |
| J. Petro | 20:38 | 2-7 | 0-0 | 0-0 | -23 | 3 | 7 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 3 | 4 | |
| C. Wilcox | 18:29 | 3-8 | 0-0 | 2-3 | -11 | 0 | 4 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 8 | |
| M. Gelabale | 5:53 | 1-2 | 1-1 | 0-0 | -8 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | |
| D. West | DNP - Coach’s Decision | ||||||||||||||
| Totals | 37-86 | 6-11 | 12-14 | 8 | 41 | 29 | 15 | 6 | 4 | 6 | 18 | 92 | |||
| Percentages: | .430 | .545 | .857 | Team Rebounds: 3 |
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| New Orleans | |||||||||||||||
| Name | Min | FG | 3Pt | FT | +/- | Off | Reb | Ast | TO | Stl | BS | BA | PF | Pts | |
| C. Paul |
G |
29:57 | 6-13 | 0-2 | 0-0 | +15 | 1 | 3 | 11 | 4 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 12 |
| M. Peterson | G | 20:34 | 1-9 | 1-5 | 0-0 | +2 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 3 |
| T. Chandler | C | 36:34 | 7-9 | 0-0 | 0-4 | +14 | 5 | 21 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 14 |
| P. Stojakovic | F | 29:57 | 6-11 | 4-6 | 7-7 | +15 | 1 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 23 |
| D. West | F | 25:54 | 8-17 | 0-0 | 3-4 | +7 | 3 | 11 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 19 |
| M. Ely | 23:53 | 4-9 | 0-0 | 0-1 | +30 | 1 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 8 | |
| B. Jackson | 19:33 | 5-9 | 3-4 | 0-0 | +18 | 0 | 1 | 6 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 13 | |
| J. Pargo | 18:03 | 7-9 | 3-3 | 1-1 | +16 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 18 | |
| R. Bowen | 12:59 | 1-1 | 0-0 | 0-0 | +8 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | |
| H. Armstrong | 8:49 | 0-0 | 0-0 | 0-0 | +11 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | |
| R. Butler | 7:53 | 2-4 | 0-0 | 4-4 | +11 | 0 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 8 | |
| M. Vinicius | 5:53 | 1-2 | 1-2 | 0-0 | +8 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 3 | |
| Totals | 48-93 | 12-22 | 15-21 | 13 | 53 | 32 | 12 | 7 | 6 | 4 | 13 | 123 | |||
| Percentages: | .516 | .545 | .714 | Team Rebounds: 5 |
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| Game Info |
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Technical Fouls: None Attendance: 9,882 |
January 16th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Following the Big Dipper method, Ryan Bowen was game MVP (1-1 for 1.000 shooting).
*ducks*
January 16th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
I recall that Ryan Bowen had a huge game against the Sonics a couple of years ago (perhaps during the final stages of the GP era) when he was a Denver Nugget. The Sonics were up seventeen at one point in the third quarter and managed to end up losing by seventeen partially because of Bowen’s energy.
Earl was just as good tonight as Luke was against the Lakers. Jeff Green wasn’t able to channel his superhuman basketball IQ tonight.
January 16th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
That team is just so much tougher than we are and it really showed tonight.
January 16th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
I don’t get how we are the NBA’s best team in overall rebounds per game, and NO is #11; yet they kick our ass in that regard consistently.
January 16th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Jeff Green scored very high in the predraft basketball IQ test. Rumor has it that he set a rookie record in the analogy and math sections.
Collison was unable to “channel” his IQ tonight too. I hate it when that happens.
January 16th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
more plays, more rebounds, more good or bad times for good or bad things to happen.
The Suns are a little better than most teams, but they run so many plays that there are more numbers.
Sonics are a little bit worse than most teams…
They ran into a team that does everything a little bit better than the Sonics, each extra trip down the floor inflates every little number until they are buried.
The Sonics really are not really talented at one thing, not more talented than most teams at just one thing. Last year we at least had shooting, and might out score somebody. This team does not run one play as crisply as the Hornets did at any play tonight.
January 16th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
9882.
if they sell out the next game I think they miss the average.
sad, time to push poll the OKC folks.
January 16th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
That attendance figure in N.O. tonight got me to check something out. Remember how some people try to compare Durant to Lebron James or Michael Jordan, as the next superstar? Seems most fans around the NBA do not agree. Only 9,882 in N.O. tonight to see Durant play against one of the better teams in the league, with Chris Paul.
So I checked road attendance for the Sonics this year. Before tonight’s pathetic road attendance, the Sonics this season were 21st in the NBA in road attendance at 16,965.
In LeBron’s rookie season, Cleveland was second in the NBA in road attendance at 18,730.
Guess most fans around the NBA are not too excited about Kevin Durant.
January 16th, 2008 at 11:06 pm
Well Lebron, deservedly so, may be the most hyped player ever to come into the league. I’d be willing to bet that he has come close to selling out every away arena in his career.
NOs attendence isn’t a good measure of Durants popularity. I don’t think they sold out for the Lakers and Kobe is arguably the most popular player in the world.
Corporations like Nike and EA sports have no problem banking on Durant as the next superstar.
January 16th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
But to your point…….on the NO attendance/popularity scale Durant isn’t as popular as Lebron, Kobe, Nash
Lebron vs NO (Saturday) sellout 17k
Kobe vs NO (Friday) 15k
Nash vs NO (Saturday) 13.7k
Durant vs NO (Wednesday) 9.8k
Speaking of NO attendance. I believe a sellout there is around 17k (17,188). Isn’t the average goal of 15k per game pretty lofty?
January 16th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Dipper wasn’t talking just about New Orleans. The Sonics and Kevin Durant do not appear to be much of a sell around the NBA.
Unsurprisingly, the Celtics and Lakers are first and second, respectively, in terms of average road attendance. I think we all know which two teams Stern would like to see meet in the NBA Finals.
By contrast, the Pistons and Spurs are sixteenth and twentieth, respectively, in terms of average road attendance. If these two teams were to meet again in the Finals, I am predicting another ratings calamity. Then, we’ll get to hear all about how nobody cares about the NBA for another offseason and how the NBA is approaching NHL status. As a fan of the NBA outside of the Sonics context, I don’t want to listen to such nonsense for another summer.
January 16th, 2008 at 11:35 pm
Interesting attendance note: Denver is eighteenth in average home attendance but third in average road attendance. AI and Carmelo haven’t captured the hearts and minds of Denver residents. Carmelo and AI sure are making money for other franchises by packing their arenas.
January 16th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
N.O. arena: 18,000 for basketball.
The attendance goal is pretty realistic, but not if they get many more “crowds” of 9,882. That was pretty pathetic.
January 17th, 2008 at 12:02 am
I thought January 16th was a key date. Haven’t heard anything about anything. Anyone know if anything is up.. or whats going on or something?
Remember: Jan 16 is key date.. ?
January 17th, 2008 at 12:03 am
In other news, Greg Johns of the P-I was the first to post news of today’s court proceedings. We can probably look forward to the rest of the super-secret details on the 11-o’clock news.
January 17th, 2008 at 12:32 am
“Isn’t the average goal of 15k per game pretty lofty?”
The exact number was 14,735 which was the average attendance prior to Katrina. I think its a pretty lofty goal, not nearly as lofty if they allowed 2300 people in a game for free however.
The caveat in that number is that it was for games starting December first, prior to the Heat game the other night they needed to average over 15K a night the rest of the way, tonights game probably jumps that number up to 15.1 or possibly close to 15.2.
“The Sonics and Kevin Durant do not appear to be much of a sell around the NBA.”
I’d agree. Differences between this team and LeBron’s first year is pretty clear, they had a much better team and LeBron had an NBA body coming in his first year. I’d seen him plenty on TV but even that first year he was a specimen.
“I thought January 16th was a key date.”
Read a report that opening arguements were made today, not many court hearings get done with in one day, today was the day it started.
January 17th, 2008 at 12:41 am
“Dipper wasn’t talking just about New Orleans. The Sonics and Kevin Durant do not appear to be much of a sell around the NBA.”
Isn’t that to be expected considering we are one of the worst teams in the league?
According to ESPN and official NO sellout is 17,188.
http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=271229003
Their attendance is bad. No disputing that. But to put up a goal of 15,000 a game in a rebuilding city halfway through the season……….seems pretty brutal to me (for their fans). They have had poor attendance all year long and now Shinn comes out and wants a 83% fill rate? Sounds pretty tough to me…..but what do I care.
January 17th, 2008 at 12:41 am
I know Court hearings dont get done in one day but in an older post Brian said that if something doesnt com about b4 Jan 16 he would tell us what secret planning is going on. Had nothing to do with Court. Maybe i misunderstood. Sos!!
January 17th, 2008 at 12:55 am
We need to consider the Lebron hype too (which was deserved). Possibly the most hyped high school basketball player of all time. Lebron had his high school games on ESPN. His highlights were on sportcenter. He drove an H2 in high school (and the media ate that up). He was being touted as a prodigy while a teenager. By the time Lebron was entering his senior year of high school Lebron James was a household name.
Now I had heard about Durant in HS. But I can’t say that I’d ever seen him play until he got to Texas (besides the McDonalds AA game). I think a lot of people saw him for the first time then. He’s been good…..but not on a Lebron James level. Not sure if thats possible.
January 17th, 2008 at 12:58 am
So I agree too. Durant is no Lebron James. The Sonics/Durant are definitely not a draw on the road…….we are a really really bad hoops team right now.
I’d like to think that Miami is worse than us…..but they have D-Wade so I give them a leg up.
January 17th, 2008 at 1:05 am
“Then, we’ll get to hear all about how nobody cares about the NBA for another offseason and how the NBA is approaching NHL status. As a fan of the NBA outside of the Sonics context, I don’t want to listen to such nonsense for another summer. “–Alex Chan
Regardless of which teams meet in the NBA Finals, I think the league is in a little bit of trouble. Financially a lot of teams are doing well, however, if your team doesn’t do well for a few years or if a bad GM takes over it’s pretty easy to stop giving a damn now. There aren’t any really good rivalries right now, and the talent has become so diluted that the average fan doesn’t know who is on which roster anymore. IMO the league was more interesting when there were less teams with talent more consolidated on their rosters.
January 17th, 2008 at 1:05 am
I agree about the distinction between Durant and LeBron. However, is Durant drawing any better than any other rookie that was the best player on a bad team? Perhaps Crow or Dipper can take on this research task.
Chris Paul was not a very good road draw his first year in the league. Paul was their best player and the Hornets were bad, though not as bad as this joke of a Sonics team. The Hornets averaged 16,690 that season on the road, good for twenty-sixth in the NBA. So Durant is ahead of Chris Paul the rookie and actually still ahead of Chris Paul, the third-year player. Nobody cares about Chris Paul, despite the Hornets’ record, as the Hornets are last in the NBA in terms of average road attendance.
January 17th, 2008 at 1:11 am
“Durant is no Lebron James.”–Menace.
I’m not sure LeBron would do well with the supporting cast on our roster. Take a look at Kevin Garnett’s rookie year stat line or Payton’s, and I think you could come to the conclusion that KD is doing just fine. If KD is no LeBron James, then you might as well complain that Lebron James is no Magic Johnson because LeBron was unable to win a ring as a rookie.
January 17th, 2008 at 1:30 am
No matter how hyped you are–KD, LeBron, whoever–you’ve got to win to bring out the fans. Plus, KD had to deal with the effect of losing a well-respected player in Ray Allen which LeBron never had to deal with. Losing Allen was as much of a local story as getting KD. That loss at least affects our local attendance. It makes it appear as if we are apathetic about the potential loss of our team during a crucial year.
January 17th, 2008 at 1:36 am
It’s time to fix this franchise.
TRANSACTION #1
FROM CLEVELAND
SF Ira Newble ($3,441,900)
SF Devin Brown ($1,200,000)
SG Shannon Brown ($1,044,120)
C Dwayne Jones ($770,610)
FROM MINNESOTA
SG Marko Jaric ($6,050,000)
FROM SEATTLE
PG Earl Watson ($5,800,000)
C Johan Petro ($1,077,120)
SF Mickael Gelabale ($802,000)
TO CLEVELAND
SG Marko Jaric ($6,050,000)
C Johan Petro ($1,077,120)
SF Mickael Gelabale ($802,000)
TO MINNESOTA
PG Earl Watson ($5,800,000)
TO SEATTLE
SF Ira Newble ($3,441,900)
SF Devin Brown ($1,200,000)
SG Shannon Brown ($1,044,120)
C Dwayne Jones ($770,610)
http://tinyurl.com/2mys9l
TRANSACTION #2
FROM ATLANTA
PG Tyronn Lue ($3,500,000)
C Lorenzen Wright ($3,250,000)
PG Anthony Johnson ($2,860,000)
FROM MEMPHIS
PF Pau Gasol ($13,735,000)
FROM ORLANDO
PG Carlos Arroyo ($4,000,000)
PF Pat Garrity ($3,818,750)
SG Keyon Dooling ($3,596,000)
FROM SEATTLE
SF Wally Szczerbiak ($12,000,000)
PF Kurt Thomas ($8,091,188)
C Chris Wilcox ($6,500,000)
PG Luke Ridnour ($3,250,000 Outgoing Value) [Base-Year Compensation Player]
SF Damien Wilkins ($2,900,000)
C Mouhamed Sene ($2,105,520)
PG Delonte West ($1,889,760)
PF Peter Fehse (Draft Rights)
SG Yotam Halperin (Draft Rights)
PG Paccelis Morlende (Draft Rights)
2008 First-Round Draft Pick (Via The Phoenix Suns)
2010 First-Round Draft Pick (Via The Phoenix Suns)
TO ATLANTA
PG Luke Ridnour ($6,500,000 Incoming Value) [Base-Year Compensation Player]
SF Damien Wilkins ($2,900,000)
C Mouhamed Sene ($2,105,520)
TO MEMPHIS
PF Kurt Thomas ($8,091,188)
C Chris Wilcox ($6,500,000)
PF Peter Fehse (Draft Rights)
SG Yotam Halperin (Draft Rights)
PG Paccelis Morlende (Draft Rights)
TO ORLANDO
SF Wally Szczerbiak ($12,000,000)
PG Delonte West ($1,889,760)
2008 First-Round Draft Pick (Via The Phoenix Suns Through The Seattle Supersonics)
2010 First-Round Draft Pick (Via The Phoenix Suns Through The Seattle Supersonics)
TO SEATTLE
PF Pau Gasol ($13,735,000)
PG Carlos Arroyo ($4,000,000)
PF Pat Garrity ($3,818,750)
SG Keyon Dooling ($3,596,000)
PG Tyronn Lue ($3,500,000)
C Lorenzen Wright ($3,250,000)
PG Anthony Johnson ($2,860,000)
http://tinyurl.com/2m8xd6
SEATTLE SUPERSONICS
C: Nick Collison (32 M.P.G.)
C: Lorenzen Wright (16 M.P.G.)
C: Dwayne Jones (Inactive)
C: Robert Swift (Inactive)
PF: Pau Gasol (40 M.P.G.)
PF: Pat Garrity (8 M.P.G.)
SF: Jeff Green (32 M.P.G.)
SF: Devin Brown (16 M.P.G.)
SF: Ira Newble (0 M.P.G.)
SG: Kevin Durant (32 M.P.G.)
SG: Keyon Dooling (16 M.P.G.)
SG: Shannon Brown (NBDL)
PG: Anthony Johnson (24 M.P.G.)
PG: Carlos Arroyo (24 M.P.G.)
PG: Tyronn Lue (0 M.P.G.)
That’s how you rebuild a ballclub.
January 17th, 2008 at 2:13 am
In a continuation to my previous post, here would be the roster heading into the 2008 NBA Draft.
UNDER CONTRACT
PF Pau Gasol ($15,106,000)
C Nick Collison ($6,250,000)
SF Kevin Durant ($4,484,040)
SF Jeff Green ($3,287,640)
QUALIFYING OFFER
C Robert Swift ($3,579,131)
UNRESTRICTED FREE-AGENTS
C Lorenzen Wright
C Dwayne Jones
PF Pat Garrity
SF Ira Newble
SF Devin Brown
SG Keyon Dooling
SG Shannon Brown
PG Anthony Johnson
PG Carlos Arroyo
PG Tyronn Lue
That’s known as financial flexibility.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:32 am
I’m interested in durant jersey sales, theres the measure of a players popularity, not the attendance of his team’s away games. That stuff aside, just a rough game and it shows what the sonics need for that next step. Durants shot selection looks good (on the books at least!) and for me that 9,882 is a moral victory. I see a lot more games coming where they don’t crack the 10k mark, so getting to that 15k average will really be tough. Here’s hoping they find a nice new home in OKC. Bring on memphis, lets just forget this game altogether.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:16 am
It really is a shame considering that New Orleans is one of the best teams in the league and led by one of few special players that will come along in our generation…based on that I really don’t think that 15K fans is really an unreasonable number for the team to expect the city to hit.
If they aren’t hitting that with this team…they never will.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:18 am
Im in a fantasy hoops league that only counts one game a week for the player. Needless to say I am very disappointed when Chandler’s games against the Sonics do not fall within the timeing for his stats to count towards my game.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:20 am
Finally….sure looks like even the defensive “progress” that has been touted by the team is quickly slipping away as well.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:37 am
“In a continuation to my previous post, here would be the roster heading into the 2008 NBA Draft.
UNDER CONTRACT
PF Pau Gasol ($15,106,000)
C Nick Collison ($6,250,000)
SF Kevin Durant ($4,484,040)
SF Jeff Green ($3,287,640)”
At this point a savy GM would need to have to following priorities to build the perenial winner that courtsence is looking for:
1) Quality point guard: Qualification–must know how to trash talk
2) Explosive power forward: Qualification–must have substance abuse problem
3) Veteran presence with winning experience who is familar with the Carlismo system. Perhaps a guy who has recently retired but might be willing to make a come back because “he has a family to feed.”
QUALIFYING OFFER
C Robert Swift ($3,579,131)
January 17th, 2008 at 9:44 am
- Hmmm, so Memphis would trade Gasol away for basically nothing?? I find it amazing that we would be getting the best player and Orlando would basically be giving up some scraps and yet Orlando gets two first rounders as well? Don’t know which team gets better in that section…
- Why on Earth would Minnesota want Earl Watson on their team…and here I thought your trade proposals had been starting to be more logical lately.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:51 am
Well, I don’t know what the official “sellout” number is at N.O. Hornets games, but that doesn’t matter to me. According to Wikipedia, the N.O. Arena has a capacity of 18,000 for basketball.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans_Arena
That is the important number, because it means they can have crowds of 18,000, which would raise their attendance average each time that happens by more than if the capacity was only 17,188.
Kevin Duant is the most-hyped rookie in the NBA this year. Can you name me one other rookie, who is not injured (Oden) who is getting any national publicity this season? Durant is the NBA’s “featured” rookie. He has won rookie of the month both months this year, right? (I’m not really sure, so I am asking). Durant is the best the NBA has to offer in rookies this year, and he is not exciting any interest at all.
I can’t find road attendance for 1984-85, Michael Jordan’s rookie season, but I suspect the Bulls were at the very top of the league in attendance for Jordan’s rookie year.
My point is that Durant was hyped as another LeBron or Michael type talent, but he is not even in the same league, either talent-wise or fan-interest-wise.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:51 am
Im in a fantasy hoops league that only counts one game a week for the player. Needless to say I am very disappointed when Chandler’s games against the Sonics do not fall within the timeing for his stats to count towards my game.
Bummer for you Myk. I’m in a league and I drafted Chandler, but I get all games during the week. I smile every time I see the Sonics coming up on the NO’s schedule that week. ;o)
January 17th, 2008 at 9:58 am
I don’t have the numbers but I’m pretty confident MJ didn’t command the same kidna of away attendance numbers LBJ did in his rookie year. Once he became what he is, then yeah MJ was an attraction, but seriously has ANY rookie ever been as hyped ans Lebron, that whole high school to pro thing probably made a big difference. KD got unheard-of accolades for a freshman, but I can’t help thinking that IF he could have gone straight from high school his hype would have been bigger… but not sure.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Can you name me one other rookie, who is not injured (Oden) who is getting any national publicity this season?
Yi Jilian got some pretty big pub for the Yao vs Yi matchup. Granted most was focused on China, but the NBA pushed that pretty hard.
You are right, Durant is the biggest rookie the NBA has to market this season. The scary thought is what kind of road attendance figures would the Sonics be drawing without Durant on the roster?
January 17th, 2008 at 10:07 am
My point is that Durant was hyped as another LeBron or Michael type talent, but he is not even in the same league, either talent-wise or fan-interest-wise.
- Have teams from Seattle ever drawn well on the road? Like it or not…90% of the people in this country think that we are Alaska…
January 17th, 2008 at 10:07 am
My point is that Durant was hyped as another LeBron or Michael type talent, but he is not even in the same league, either talent-wise or fan-interest-wise.
- Have teams from Seattle ever drawn well on the road? Like it or not…90% of the people in this country think that we are Alaska…
January 17th, 2008 at 10:13 am
Why you dissing Alaska?
January 17th, 2008 at 10:19 am
Have teams from Seattle ever drawn well on the road? Like it or not…90% of the people in this country think that we are Alaska…
I always thought the rest of the sports world believed that Seattle was right next to Egypt?
January 17th, 2008 at 10:36 am
“Durant is the best the NBA has to offer in rookies this year, and he is not exciting any interest at all.
I can’t find road attendance for 1984-85, Michael Jordan’s rookie season, but I suspect the Bulls were at the very top of the league in attendance for Jordan’s rookie year.”–Big Dipper
Jordan’s rookie year he only won 38 games. It’s time to end the ridiculous expectations for KD. Calling him a Messiah or a “savior” of the team is just unrealistic. Plus, Michael Jordan and LeBron James did not have to deal with having a player of Ray Allen’s popularity being traded. KD’s uniform sales have been extremely good, and if he had any kind of a supporting cast at all, we’d be drawing more fans wherever we went. In the last game he started against the Hornets, zero of the other players who started with him were averaging double figures per game. That’s pathetic. Did Jordan or LeBron have anyone averaging 10 or more points on starting with them in their rookie season? If the best side kick that the team can put beside KD right now is Wilcox or Wally (while Jeff Green is still developing), no wonder no one is attending the games.
Here’s my motivation to attend a Sonics game: there’s no one else there so I can move up to get a seat as close to the court as I want. That’s pretty sad; isn’t it?
January 17th, 2008 at 10:38 am
Why was Carlesimo hired? why is Presti cosidered a wunderkind?
Is this team ever going to improve?Will we ever know if it has even reached Presti’s minimum goals?
does one of you have an idea of when the judge will render a decision on when the trial will start?
January 17th, 2008 at 10:42 am
I always thought the rest of the sports world believed that Seattle was right next to Egypt?
- No Egypt is too close…
Jordan’s rookie year he only won 38 games. It’s time to end the ridiculous expectations for KD. Calling him a Messiah or a “savior” of the team is just unrealistic. Plus, Michael Jordan and LeBron James did not have to deal with having a player of Ray Allen’s popularity being traded.
- Much easier to be a savior when you have an All-Star caliber Center and a good young PF on your team isn’t it??
January 17th, 2008 at 10:42 am
After yet another blowout loss where PJ complained about the lack of “energy” and “focus” and “intensity” it’s becoming clear to me that, notwithstanding the constant injuries and the roster challenges, we’re faced with 3 distinct possibilities…either:
1. this team has flat-out quit on their coach - and we’re not even to the All-Star break yet.
-or-
2. the coaching and game-planning is inferior on a nightly basis, rendering the Sonics capable of defeating only the most pathetic and overmatched opponent.
-or-
3. some combination of both 1 and 2.
I vote for #3 - if the players are only capable of mustering the necessary effort and focus and intensity for moments at a time, despite the coach’s constant complaining and screaming about it, then that tells me guys have already tuned him out.
Additionally, the majority of the players have not been used properly according to their current or potential skillsets, nor have they been given clearly-defined roles.
I am not basing any of this on the sheer win total…at best, thus roster might’ve only won an additional 5 or 6 games under ideal curcumstances. I base this on what I believe are realistic goals.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:46 am
I read an article today on hoopshype where Shinn said he feels the Hornets will hit their target because the 14,750 figure isn’t that high.
I guess Clay Bennett isn’t the only owner who is a good politician. Shinn says all the comforting things early on to get fans relaxed and feeling confident. I can’t wait to see when the date will be where he goes into his next phase of declaring that it doesn’t look good for the Hornets staying in New Orleans.
I wonder if he has someone like Aubrey that will let the cat out of the bag earlier.
The only thing I can’t figure out is how Shinn is going to come up with the $100mil penalty fee for getting out from the lease.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:46 am
AK, I can see most of your trade as plausible from each team’s perspective. The part I might wonder the most about would whether Orlando would want Wally. Maybe they would, to keep 2 strong shooters on court all the time.
With 6 teams it is almost certain that one or more GM will be unreasonable or timid or looking elsewhere so the odds of all this going down are small. But it is still does show that you can work the possibilities and try to improve. Let’s see which GMs do better than what you’ve proposed.
Gasol has been debated here before. I previously suggested that even with contract and softness he could be an upgrade but I understand those who said no. I don’t think Presti would take Gasol or convince Bennett to take Gasol unless he felt he could win a championship with him. That would take a lot of optimism. Probably too much. But they do need a better inside piece. Will Presti do better than that? When? Maybe you could turn Gasol instead something else later if need be.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:50 am
in last sentence instead should be “into”
January 17th, 2008 at 10:52 am
I didn’t see the game last night but in looking over the boxscore I decided that it’s no longer of any use to consider the +/- stats as any sort of measurement of how a player performed. Collison was only -1 with miniscule points and rebounds yet in his last game he was -11 with 24 and 18.
Those +/- ratings are strictly about who else was on the floor at the time with a player, nothing more. They don’t project the individuals performance other than perhaps how he may have played on defense one on one.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:59 am
Here’s the reality of rookie seasons:
Michael Jordan: 28.2 ppg 3.5 TO per game 51.5% FG% 84.5% FT 6.5 rebounds/game 5.9 assists 6.5 rebounds
Kevin Garnett: 10.4 pts/game 6.3 rebounds/game 1.8 assists
All Rookie Second Team (Unable to locate FG% )
Kevin Durant: 19.8 ppg 4.3 rebounds/game 40.4% FG% 86.5% FT%
Gary Payton: very forgettable; threw up a lot of bricks until Karl and Grgurich and some defensive inspiration turned his career around.
The reality is that other than some poor FG% which is to be expected during a rookie year KD is doing well. It’s premature to judge the career of a 19-year-old by the first quarter of his rookie season.
Are there any trade rumors involving Jason Terry? He was rumored to be involved in trades a few months ago. Even though he’s an older player, I think he’d definitely make things more interesting by allowing us to move KD to the small forward position. His game reminds me of Hersey Hawkins.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:07 am
The only thing I can’t figure out is how Shinn is going to come up with the $100mil penalty fee for getting out from the lease.
I’d bet if you actually dug deeper into that $100 million figure you’d find out its not $100 million in actual dollars out of Shinn’s pocket. Typically, there is alot of fluff and soft money included. One figure they were touting was the $60 million to buy out the local minority owner. That wouldn’t really come out of Shinn’s pocket, because he’d just fine another minority owner in the market he was looking to move to that would buy out the existing minority owner. There is $60 million that sounds big, but mearly ends up being a minority owner swap at the time the franchise moves.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:09 am
I can’t wait to see when the date will be where he goes into his next phase of declaring that it doesn’t look good for the Hornets staying in New Orleans.
Check back right after the All Star game is finished in New Orleans. I imagine the rhetoric will start soon after that event.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Good call on the allstar game Frozenropers. Stern most likely told Shinn to keep everything rosy for the allstar game. I also wouldn’t be surprised if the league ususs the occasion for some sort of announcement for promoting the Hornets ticket drive.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:25 am
+/- from one game can swing for many reasons.
It does help give a sense when the other team made their runs.
+/- somewhat better for season as whole. Durant & Green still have quite weak overall +/-’s but there are some signs that maybe you could take as positive. Green is in half of the team’s best 5 man lineups now. Durant is only one but he is in half of the next 10.
Unfortunately all these lineups are low minutes. Only 3 lineups have been used over 50 minutes total for the season and all 3 are negative. Collison Wilcox Wilkins Durant Watson is strongly negative. Thomas Wilcox Wilkins Durant Watson is only midly negative. But both involve Wilkins and I doubt they go back that way. Collison Wilcox Green Durant Watson is only the 3rd lineup they have tried over 50 minutes and it is mildly negative.
PJ has tried almost 200 lineups. Only 3 for over 50 minutes (not much more than 1 minute per game for season).
It is small sample and no guarantee but they have over 50 lineups that have been positive. I’d suggest they narrow in and experiment with 5-10 of the best of these as much as possible the rest of the season.
Green at SF is close to even on team +/- and he is only mildly negative when at SF with Durant and others like Collison. That combo might be ok. It looks better than Durant with Green at PF.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:30 am
I doubt Dallas moves Terry now with things beginning to work well again but this summer would not surprised me.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Jason Terry is an interesting name. He is a lead guard that can hit the three pointer, can play defense, and has the experience that the Sonics could use in the backcourt. His assists numbers are down this season but that’s mainly because he has been used as a scoring guard off the bench. But he has shown in the past he can dish the ball just fine.
On the negative side his contracr runs for 4 more years at an ending salary of $11mil. He will be 34 years old by then and who knows if he will slow down in the final couple of seasons or not. That’s a bit of a risk.
But Chris Wilcox and Delonte West for Terry works by the CBA. But is it really what the Sonics need? I suppose if they could convince Dallas then it frees up the draft for someone like DeAndre Jordan or perhaps Michael Beasley if they got the #1 pick by way of the ping pong balls( I’ve conceeded the worst record to Minnesota).
January 17th, 2008 at 11:55 am
In Kevin Garnett’s rookie season he shot .491.
Anyone who likes stats should buy these 2 books published by “Sporting News”
“Official NBA Register” gives player stats
“Official NBA Guide” gives team stats.
There is a new edition of each book every year. You can get them at many book stores. Paperbacks. Probably cost around $25 each nowadays (the latest I have are the 2004-05 editions which cost $18.95 each.
You can find most of the stuff that is in these books online, but sometimes it is easier to just have a good reference book in your hands. The Guide has all the NBA records, 1st-round draft picks for every team’s entire history, stuff like that, as well as year-by-year team and individual stats for every team since 1946-47.
The Register has every current NBA player’s career stats, including his college stats, and the stats for “All-Time Great Players” like Wilt, Magic, Bird, etc. who are retired.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:58 am
I really like Jason Terry. He would be an immense improvement over Watson and Luke. But he’s too old for this team. Terry is in his prime now. The Sonics need someone who will be in his prime at the same time as Durant and Green will be in their primes. By then, Terry will be in his mid-30’s and probably not much good.
January 17th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Free Insider preview from ESPN has a Sonics trade talk nugget. Read down through the list a little bit and check out the Wally write-up.
http://tinyurl.com/27yez9
January 17th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
“The only thing I can’t figure out is how Shinn is going to come up with the $100mil penalty fee for getting out from the lease. ”
I doubt he’ll have to pay anywhere near that much. At first I skimmed the numbers but didn’t read the article as carefully as I should have. The $100 mil amount cited includes a $65 mil buyout of a minority owner. A buyout, IMO, isn’t really the same thing as a ‘penalty’ for leaving. And remember that the state also committed to paying for a practice arena for the team. So let’s say Shinn wants to leave … the $65 mil buyout would actually be paid by another investor in whatever market he wants to move to. $35 mil left … the Hornets let the state off the hook for their contractual obligation to build the team an $15-20 mil arena practice facility, thus saving more money. I think if it goes down it’ll essentially come to the team paying the usual relocation fee and maybe $10 or $20 mil in ‘penalties’ … not the $100 mil that was reported in the article.
January 17th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Thanks Burrito. Here’s the nugget -
‘Jason Williams, Dorell Wright and Ricky Davis for Wally and Watson is said to be in the works, by the way. And Miami could sweeten it with one or all of the three second-round picks it has in the upcoming draft (its own, Philadelphia’s and Indiana’s). ‘
Dunno if the second round pick interests me at all. J-will has been discussed here before, and heck Ricky Davis should LOVE this offense. :/
January 17th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Jason Williams and Ricky Davis are expiring contracts right?
Is this Dorell Wright guy any good?
Agreed that the 2nd rounders are pointless at this point…
January 17th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Kudos to Chris Sheridan for showing me how to spell “beaucoup”.
January 17th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
On a more positive note - If you were to place Sene into D-league official statistics, he would be top 5 in
1) rebounds/48 = 16/48
2) Field Goal % (58%)
3) Blocks/40 (3.9)
And he has a decent steal rate as well. 1 and 3 do not adjust for pace, so it may be that Idaho plays at a quicker pace than other teams and therefore inflates those #’s a little bit (the opposite could also be true of course). This is after 8 games. Idaho is 8-0 in that time (although guys like Lance Allred - a 28 year old and leader in the league in Rebounds/48, and Livingston are really good players on that team).
It is the fact that he is strong in all 3 that is encouraging. How D-league stats translate to the NBA is unclear - I would think it would be better than any college stats though.
FYI - Josh McRoberts was 0-6 the other day - although he sure is a good passer.
January 17th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
But he also understands the more enticing financial prospects of a place like Seattle, a town with more corporate backing than New Orleans, with a franchise that has a long history of professional basketball in the Northwest and a solid fan base.
“I think it’s a great market,” Shinn said of the Sonics, whose ownership group filed an application with the NBA to relocate the franchise to Oklahoma City. “I don’t know the circumstances. I’ve been in the arena, but it’s had to have been years ago.
“I just would hope that a team could stay in Seattle. I think it’s a good market. And being an owner, I’d hate to lose that market. But that’s a decision to be made by whoever is affected. I’ll have one vote if it ever comes to that, and we’ll usually follow the lead of the commissioner.”
http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/story/257245.html
a team? do you have a team, George?
January 17th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
‘Jason Williams, Dorell Wright and Ricky Davis for Wally and Watson is said to be in the works, by the way. And Miami could sweeten it with one or all of the three second-round picks it has in the upcoming draft (its own, Philadelphia’s and Indiana’s). ‘
Dunno if the second round pick interests me at all. J-will has been discussed here before, and heck Ricky Davis should LOVE this offense. :/
Interesting rumor…..similar to much speculation on the boards here. Any way we can work Wilkins into that deal? ;o)
Wright would essentially add another SF to the mix. As I see that being Durant’s long term position, much more so than SG I guess he could become future trade bait.
With all the chaos in Chicago, would be interesting if Paxon would deal Thomas or Noah along with Sefolosha to get Wilcox for another post presence. If the deal in Noah, have to throw in Khryapa to make salaries work. Noah and Thomas would bring different (more defense) ability to our post play. Sefolosha brings solid D at the SG position and his offense isn’t suppose to be horrible (small sample size warning on his NBA stats thus far).
Might be an interesting tweak of the roster.
January 17th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
Ricky can finally get his triple-double
points, rebounds, turn overs
January 17th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
“Jason Williams and Ricky Davis are expiring contracts right?”
Yes.
Is this Dorell Wright guy any good?
Meh. Not really. He plays SF, was one of those guys in Robert Swift’s shoes who jumped to the NBA before the age limit kicked in but has been stuck at the end of Miami’s bench. I’ve heard motivational problems.
January 17th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
That trade for wally and watson would be good. We will have plenty of money to work with with 3 of our biggest contracts gone ( watson, thomas, wally) at the end of the year and we could have 7 2nd round draft picks ridiculous! I would consider keeping ricky davis but toss white chocolate out the side and we have to many people in dorrell’s position so toss him out too.
January 17th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
That is an interesting trade rumor.
Dorell Wright is a thinny athletic 3/4 who can shoot/score pretty efficently but hasnt been as consistent as you’d want by now. He is better as a 4 personally taking his man outside or using quickness. But better for team at SF. (Sounds like Green in that regard) Played some SG last season. No 3 pt threat yet. Below average defender.
It is mainly a cap freeing trade but if they did such a deal I’d think that Presti would have to be partly betting on Wright improving / fitting here. He might but he isn’t a sure thing.
Williams might have a chance and sticking to help run the fast break. Davis won’t stay but might be used in a sign n trade.
January 17th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
“Kudos to Chris Sheridan for showing me how to spell “beaucoup”.”
Did you read that article by Sheridan?
Here is a excerpt:
“Jerry Sloan has followed through on his vow to go easier on Kirilenko this season, and things are now copacetic between the two. ”
‘copacetic’??!
What the hell is that? Do I need Green’s basketball IQ to read Sheridan?
If I didn’t see it in context and had to guess, I would pick: “a condition from having eaten too much bran” as in “he missed the second half of today’s game because of a copacetic reaction . . . the scene in the lockerroom was ugly.”
January 17th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Thanks!
So do I get this right? We’d have around $23mil clearing this offseason if this went through?
Who are the FA of interest?
January 17th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
copacetic= cool between each other
January 17th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
courtsense Says:
After yet another blowout loss where PJ complained about the lack of “energy” and “focus” and “intensity” it’s becoming clear to me that, notwithstanding the constant injuries and the roster challenges, we’re faced with 3 distinct possibilities…either:
1. this team has flat-out quit on their coach - and we’re not even to the All-Star break yet.
-or-
2. the coaching and game-planning is inferior on a nightly basis, rendering the Sonics capable of defeating only the most pathetic and overmatched opponent.
-or-
3. some combination of both 1 and 2.
I vote for #3 - if the players are only capable of mustering the necessary effort and focus and intensity for moments at a time, despite the coach’s constant complaining and screaming about it, then that tells me guys have already tuned him out.
Additionally, the majority of the players have not been used properly according to their current or potential skillsets, nor have they been given clearly-defined roles.
I am not basing any of this on the sheer win total…at best, thus roster might’ve only won an additional 5 or 6 games under ideal curcumstances. I base this on what I believe are realistic goals.
I thought the only goal you cared about was losing games. You, Bennett & Presti oughtta feel quite ecstatic at how things are playing out. Why do you even bother to take the time to critique this year’s team?
January 17th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
“It is mainly a cap freeing trade but if they did such a deal I’d think that Presti would have to be partly betting on Wright improving / fitting here. He might but he isn’t a sure thing.”
Agreed. I’d see it somewhat similarly to the Delonte West situation in that it’s a try before you buy. If he doesn’t work out for whatever reason it’s only one year on the QO at $2.5 mil. Essentially he’d be Damien’s or Gelabale’s replacement.
January 17th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Interesting article by Shridan, I started perking up when reading players that could be here, namely:
-Jason Kidd
-Arenas
-Gasol (as long as he recovers from injury well)
-Dalembert
-Ben Wallace
There are teams that are trying to downsize or gear up for a huge trade, and the sonics very well may benefit from them. My gut feeling is we need a PG badly (doesn’t even have to be JKidd, lol) and if there is any way to unload wilkins and watson for a solid starter then I’d jump all over it. The future of our big men also looks much less enticing, where are we going to get a PG and C that will have this team making a playoff run in 2 years?!
January 17th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
- Ben Wallace?? No thanks…
- Elton Brand can also opt-out this summer…if we had max space he is the guy I would go after…not sure Arenas and Durant would be a good combo together.
January 17th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
did anyone catch the trial date article from the PI this morning?
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/347679_arena17.html
An interesting point I hadn’t heard up till reading this article:
“The city requested a May 16 deadline to join additional parties to the suit, indicating it would have to consider also suing the NBA should the league approve relocation of the Sonics to Oklahoma City at its Board of Governors meeting in April while the team is still bound by the lease.”
i don’t know if suing the NBA as well would further help/hinder our cause from a legal sense. but my first thought was that involving the NBA in this suit is a positive, especially when an arena plan comes forward backed by a local buyer, then maybe the NBA would also be pressured into accepting the new arena and not just clay bennett.
i think the NBA and stern just want a new arena in seattle and for this legal sh*t (aka bad PR) to be over, and would welcome/accept a new arena proposal. bennett on the other hand seems like he just wants the team in OKC and would somehow snake his way out of accepting a new arena plan (especially if it involves a key arena remodel). therefore, putting the NBA and Bennett on the same side (starting with this lawsuit) can only help us…
just some thoughts based on outsider knowledge of the arena proposal (and limited legal knowledge!). is there anywhere we can get updates on this apparent arena plan???
anyways, let’s hope for an Oct 27th trial date!!!!
January 17th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
I don’t think Arenas is going to be traded when it comes down to it.
Dalembert / Gasol probably interest me the most in terms of best fit for this roster.
Not sure we could clear enough cap to get Brand and also wary of maxing out any NBA player older than 25 these days.
January 17th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
“I’m interested in durant jersey sales, theres the measure of a players popularity”
Top 15 Jerseys:
1. Kevin Garnett
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Allen Iverson
4. LeBron James
5. Steve Nash
6. Dwyane Wade
7. Gilbert Arenas
8. Dirk Nowitzki
9. Stephon Marbury
10. Carmelo Anthony
11. Kevin Durant
12. Paul Pierce
13. Tracy McGrady
14. Dwight Howard
15. Chris Paul
http://www.cnbc.com/id/22663891?__source=RSS*blog*&par=RSS
January 17th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
“I’m interested in durant jersey sales, theres the measure of a players popularity”
Top 15 Jerseys:
1. Kevin Garnett
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Allen Iverson
4. LeBron James
5. Steve Nash
6. Dwyane Wade
7. Gilbert Arenas
8. Dirk Nowitzki
9. Stephon Marbury
10. Carmelo Anthony
11. Kevin Durant
12. Paul Pierce
13. Tracy McGrady
14. Dwight Howard
15. Chris Paul
January 17th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Dalembert / Gasol probably interest me the most in terms of best fit for this roster.
Agreed, Steve. I actually like Dalembert a bit more than Gasol from a fit at center as a defensive presence, but it is hard to ignore Gasol’s offensive contribution and pressure he’d take off of Durant on the scoring end.
January 17th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Wow…Brand..exciting thought there.
Clearing $23mil wouldn’t be enough to sign him? How much are we talking about here?
January 17th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Marbury made the top ten? Gotta love the youth of america.
January 17th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
“I really like Jason Terry. He would be an immense improvement over Watson and Luke. But he’s too old for this team. Terry is in his prime now. The Sonics need someone who will be in his prime at the same time as Durant and Green will be in their primes. By then, Terry will be in his mid-30’s and probably not much good.”
I like Terry too. But your right hes too old for this team. Plus he gets paid a lot at this point in his career.
January 17th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
“Marbury made the top ten? Gotta love the youth of america.”
They put the money they saved by buying his shoes toward his jersey. Or maybe their is a package deal in NY where they throw in the shoes with his jersey purchase.
January 17th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
I’m just wondering who we can get for Durant/Green :).
January 17th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
“Elton Brand can also opt-out this summer…if we had max space he is the guy I would go after…not sure Arenas and Durant would be a good combo together”
It will be interesting to see what these guys command after basically not playing at all this year. Didn’t really hurt Nene a few years back. Same with Swift……obviously on a smaller level.
January 17th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
I don’t think Arenas is going to be traded when it comes down to it.
- Arenas can opt out…no trade would be necessary. I’d sort of love to have a crazy guy like him on the team…might be a good compliment to Durant, who I am starting to think is going to be one of those quiet types. But, where would all the shots come from?
Not sure we could clear enough cap to get Brand and also wary of maxing out any NBA player older than 25 these days.
- Im assuming if you make that Wally trade its to get cap space this summer…if not there is no point subjecting Durant and Green to Ricky Davis (and maybe even White Chocolate)
January 17th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Thanks Menace, very insightful. Pretty much as I would have expected, and durant isn’t doing that bad at all (I’ve got MY contribution in the closet). I was surprised with these two:
9. Stephon Marbury
10. Carmelo Anthony
These guys aren’t new to their cities, starbury has actually pissed off his city and everyone else!! And melo is just kinda ho-hum, but I guess folks in denver must be all about buying stuff (3. was iverson). Here’s to Durant cracking the top ten by the end of the season (after he is ROY, MVP of the rook all-star game, and dunk champ).
January 17th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Part 1 -
As a follow-up to my “rebuilding the Sonics” rant on last night’s game thread…I think at this point, we can divide the current roster up into a couple categories:
GONE DURING OR AFTER THIS YEAR:
Thomas: deadline trade or free agency - team saves $8.1m.
Wilkins: he wants to play, will opt out - team saves $2.9m.
Swift: no qualifying offer made - team saves $2.6m.
West: no qualifying offer made - team saves $1.9 m.
Gelabale: he wants to play, will go FA - team saves $800k.
Total $ of those contracts: $16.3m
Positions Sonics must replace: C, PF/C, SG, SG/SF (2)
TRADEBAIT/ON THE BUBBLE:
Petro: project backup PF/C - owed 1 yr/$1.9m
Sene: project backup C - owed 1 yr/$2.25m
Watson: veteran starting/backup PG - owed 2 yrs/12.8m
Ridnour: veteran starting/backup PG - owed 2 yrs/$13m
Collison: veteran starting/backup PF/C - owed 3 yrs/19.25m
My predictions for the “bubble” players:
Petro = traded
Sene = traded or stays only as backup/3rd C
Watson = traded or stays only if Ridnour is traded first
Ridnour = traded or stays only if Watson is traded first
Collison = stays longterm, traded only as part of blockbuster
GONE AFTER NEXT YEAR IF NOT SOONER:
Wally Z: expires in ‘08, could be traded before - owed $13m
Wilcox: expires in ‘08, could be traded before - owed $6.75m
HERE FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE:
Durant, Green, Collison, Watson or Ridnour (but not both)
Part 2 coming -
January 17th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
I like Terry too. But your right hes too old for this team. Plus he gets paid a lot at this point in his career.
What will be interesting, is that if we don’t win the Rose lottery on draft day, a younger better version of Jason Terry just might be available to us from his alma mater. Say hello to:
Jerryd Bayless
A scoring PG, who can play defense and pass. Not a bad consolation prize.
January 17th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
I think arenas would be good yin to durants yang:
anyone who’s read agent zero’s blog on nba.com knows that he prides himself on making guys step up. One article was all about how everyone criticizes him for not being a true PG, and he counters it with the guys he’s played with and how their stats jump up (think he cited jamison and butler but not positive). Basically I think the attention to arenas would help durant get easy shots and take a fair bit of pressure off the kid. Maybe its just wishful thinking, but having two scorers that defend also would be the ideal base of a growing team. But then again depends on how he gets back from injury and what our main guys (arenas, durant, green) would have to work with as starters (hopefully not watson and swift).
January 17th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
“Arenas can opt out…no trade would be necessary”
You’re right. I should have said more clearly that I don’t think he’ll leave Washington in the end.
Brand is 29 in a few weeks. To me it would be a real tough decision to max him out for the next six years without seeing how he comes back from that ruptured Achilles first. Won’t he be out for at least half of next season too?
January 17th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Brand is 29 in a few weeks. To me it would be a real tough decision to max him out for the next six years without seeing how he comes back from that ruptured Achilles first. Won’t he be out for at least half of next season too?
- From what I’ve heard there is a small possibility he might even come back this year. To me, a 29 year old 20/10 PF is somoene you just have to say F it and do the deal for this franchise. The guy has always been a model citizen…when he starts to decline shortly Durant and Green would be improving. Obviously getting a 22y/o stud would be really nice…but unlikely.
January 17th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
These guys aren’t new to their cities, starbury has actually pissed off his city and everyone else!! And melo is just kinda ho-hum, but I guess folks in denver must be all about buying stuff (3. was iverson). Here’s to Durant cracking the top ten by the end of the season (after he is ROY, MVP of the rook all-star game, and dunk champ).
- I think people who are not from NYC underestimate what a god like figure Marubry has been in that area. Being that so many people are from NYC even if half the people hate him he still does well…
One article was all about how everyone criticizes him for not being a true PG, and he counters it with the guys he’s played with and how their stats jump up (think he cited jamison and butler but not positive).
- Wonder how he feels now that the team is thriving and Caron Butler (always one of my fave players…another guy I prayed would fall to Seattle during the draft) is one of the best players in the East
January 17th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
when will the judge render a decision on yestrday”s events?
January 17th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
I actually found this really interesting when it comes to Earl:
Sonics Wins: 9.8ppg. 7.3apg, 2.8rpg, 49.3% FG 55% 3pFG 7.9FGA
Sonics Losses: 8.0ppg, 5.9apg, 2.6rpg. 39.2% FG 33.33pFG 8.1FGA
Earl’s biggest problem is he simply cannot shoot consistently. If he could do that I would be OK with him on our team (despite his ball hog tendencies). Unfortunately, I dont think this will ever change.
January 17th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Arenas is interesting. No doubt about his talent, but he dominates the ball. I guess it depends on the philosophy of the team that wants him. Washingtons record isn’t great by any means…….but didn’t they start off pretty slow with Arenas?
I wonder if they have any fear of losing him in free agency? But most likely I figure they will just max him out anyway.
“These guys aren’t new to their cities, starbury has actually pissed off his city and everyone else!! And melo is just kinda ho-hum, but I guess folks in denver must be all about buying stuff (3. was iverson).”
Who else on NY’s team would have a jersey worth buying? Jamal Crawford? You don’t see a lot of Zach Randolph or Eddie Curry jerseys out there. Jerome James? Huge market in NY. People want to support the team/show they are fans so they buy a Knick jersey. Might have a lot to do with the fact that he is a New Yorker at heart too. Just a theory.
Melo has appeal. He’s got the Jordan Nike thing going. He scores a ton of points. A lot of kids like the baby/carolina blue color.
Iverson is always going to be popular because of the way he plays. Even girls like watching him play. The speedy underdog/little guy/athletic freak combo draws people to him.
January 17th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Arenas is interesting. No doubt about his talent, but he dominates the ball. I guess it depends on the philosophy of the team that wants him. Washingtons record isn’t great by any means…….but didn’t they start off pretty slow with Arenas?
- I was actually amazed to see this. But yesterday during the little FG% debate I saw that Washington actually has the 8th best record in the NBA…and they did start something like 2-6 with Gilbert.
January 17th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
The Wizards started off 3-5 with Arenas though he was hurt for those eight games. It is not as if they are lighting the world on fire like the Boston Celtics since Arenas has been injured. They are 17-12 since Arenas went on injured reserve in a weak Eastern Conference. Contrast that the Warriors who are 22-11 after Stephen Jackson’s return after starting the season 1-6 without him.
January 17th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
The Wizards do not have the eighth best record in the NBA; that’s an outrageous claim, which is what I have to come to expect from you (so, the Celtics would rather have Wally, Delonte, and Jeff Green’s superhuman basketball IQ than Ray Allen? Give me a break with this PER nonsense). There are at least twelve teams in the NBA with a better record than the Wizards at this moment. You were looking at Hollinger’s adjusted rankings that takes into consideration numbers such as point differentials.
January 17th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
“Joe Newell Says:
January 16th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
I don’t get how we are the NBA’s best team in overall rebounds per game, and NO is #11; yet they kick our ass in that regard consistently. ”
Maybe it’s because we miss alot and they don’t?
January 17th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
I just saw that there is some idea that Sonics can send Wally and Earl to Miami for Williams,Wright and Davis….Do you fans will do that trade?
January 17th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
“Contrast that the Warriors who are 22-11 after Stephen Jackson’s return after starting the season 1-6 without him.”
Is it ironic to anyone else how much Alex loves Stephen Jackson considering how critical he has been in the past about players “character”?
Out of curiosity why do you always reference “Jeff Green’s superhuman basketball IQ”?
January 17th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
When I go to ESPN.com and click on “Standings” and “League”…Washington shows up 8th…I guess when I look at it now I don’t see what it is sorting on…I took the gray bar to assume that it was sorting on GB…apparently not.
January 17th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
(so, the Celtics would rather have Wally, Delonte, and Jeff Green’s superhuman basketball IQ than Ray Allen? Give me a break with this PER nonsense).
- Are you really saying that there isn’t an argument to be made that the Allen trade didn’t work as well for the Cs as it appears? The biggest thing people worry about is their depth. Two good young players and one decent role player for one aging veteran seems like a bad move or at least one that isn’t a slam dunk.
The only issue you run into is that there is talks that KG wouldn’t have accepted the trade if the Allen trade had not been completed. Also, you can’t really hold it against the Cs for making the move cause they didn’t know they were going to get KG for scraps…but it is not indefensible to say that they secretly wish they could reverse this trade.
January 17th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
I would say that Washington having the 10th least amount of losses without their best player is impressive.
January 17th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
“but it is not indefensible to say that they secretly wish they could reverse this trade. ”
I dunno about that. It seems to be working out pretty well for them so far. Is depth really that big a problem for the Celts? They could go .500 the rest of the way and easily coast into the playoffs.
January 17th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
“When I go to ESPN.com and click on “Standings” and “League”…Washington shows up 8th…I guess when I look at it now I don’t see what it is sorting on…I took the gray bar to assume that it was sorting on GB…apparently not.”
very strange. you would think the default would be winning percentage?
Washington is 4th in the east. Not bad. But take that for what its worth.
January 17th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Miami needs to trim $6mil off their payroll.
So I imagine our 2 trade exceptions are looking pretty good to Pat Riley right now.
$2,836,570
$1,259,460
Barely over 4 million trimmed off the payroll. It could be a deal-maker. And if we get expiring contracts back too then that would be a big time bonus.
January 17th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
“I don’t get how we are the NBA’s best team in overall rebounds per game, and NO is #11; yet they kick our ass in that regard consistently. ”
Maybe it’s because we miss alot and they don’t? ”
Pace factor. Seattle plays an uptempo game so there’s more possessions in a game, ergo more rebound opportunities.
January 17th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
“Miami needs to trim $6mil off their payroll.
So I imagine our 2 trade exceptions are looking pretty good to Pat Riley right now.
$2,836,570
$1,259,460
Barely over 4 million trimmed off the payroll. It could be a deal-maker. And if we get expiring contracts back too then that would be a big time bonus. ”
If they’re looking to cut salary then taking on Wally Z doesn’t do them any favors. Kurt Thomas maybe.
January 17th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Delonte West is a good young player? He’s in his fourth year in the NBA and still looks absolutely clueless about his role and position.
Jeff Green, the verdict is still out on him. The Celtics may not have drafted him anyway. They needed some size so they may have gone with Yi but like Green, there are a lot of question marks as to whether Yi can be anything more than a role player on a winning team.
Compare Wally’s playoff stats as a #2 player with the T’Wolves with Ray Allen’s playoff stats as a #1 player with the Bucks and Sonics. You’ll get a better idea about why it took so long for KG to get out of the first round…he was stuck with Wally as his best running mate.
January 17th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
There’s always an argument that can be made. After all, a stupid argument is still an argument nonetheless.
January 17th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
You should know
January 17th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Look, Sam Presti ought to be ecstatic that he can reportedly dump Wally Szczerbiak and Earl Watson on the Miami Heat for Jason Williams and Ricky Davis’ expiring contracts. I, for all intents and purposes, don’t give a shit about failed projects like Dorell Wright — or future second-round draft picks — thus, Presti should quit haggiling here and prove his worth as a front office executive. Dammit, let’s do this deal!
January 17th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Wally Z and Watson for J. Williams, Ricky Davis and D. Wright.
Gotta get excited about three questions:
1) With Ridenour platooning with “White Chocolate” would we get to call him “White Vanilla”?
2) Who would PJ vent on once Wally is gone?
which leads to question 3
3) Is Ricky Davis capable of snapping (does PJ nervously adjust his tie when he hears about this trade possibility?) Mr. Baker, care to handle this one.
January 17th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Maybe we could trade for Shaq in a multi-player deal and then trade him by himself to another team.
That would be so great for that moment in time that SHAQ jerseys would be available in the green & gold.
January 17th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
I dunno about that. It seems to be working out pretty well for them so far. Is depth really that big a problem for the Celts? They could go .500 the rest of the way and easily coast into the playoffs.
- Well of course the second part of the equation that needs to be discussed is how much just combining KG and Pierce would’ve done towards leading them to a great record. I just don’t see how you can say a guy that the stats say has only played league average can be considered THAT big of a factor onto the team. Of course, we’ll never know…
Delonte West is a good young player? He’s in his fourth year in the NBA and still looks absolutely clueless about his role and position.
- At least he only costs a couple millions dollars. He was a league average player the last couple of years. On a team with KG/Pierce he really wouldn’t need to be anything but league average to contribute…just like Ray Allen. Except Ray Allen costs you $13 million more a year for 3 more years.
Jeff Green, the verdict is still out on him. The Celtics may not have drafted him anyway. They needed some size so they may have gone with Yi but like Green, there are a lot of question marks as to whether Yi can be anything more than a role player on a winning team.
- Really? Check out David Thorpe’s vision of Yi…he seems to think the guy is atheltic enough that you will see a similar jump in stats next year as you saw with Rudy Gay. Regardless…get a cheaper guy who would actually be able to grow with the team wouldn’t have been a bad thing. At this point they will be very old and most likely a horrible team once the Top 3 start to slide. With this version at least they’d have a chance to have a top player to start the rebuilding process.
Compare Wally’s playoff stats as a #2 player with the T’Wolves with Ray Allen’s playoff stats as a #1 player with the Bucks and Sonics. You’ll get a better idea about why it took so long for KG to get out of the first round…he was stuck with Wally as his best running mate.
- Ahhh…and you are the one saying I made a stupid argument and yet you use one that has no relevance in any possible manner to this situation.. bravo.
- I mean unless you think that Presti got royally screwed by Ainge there isn’t any way you can argue that the trade might not have been in the best interest of the Cs…oh well…its not worth discussing cause there are so many variables that we’d never be able to prove out.
Sorry if my realistic discussion cause your brain to hurt…
January 17th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
3) Is Ricky Davis capable of snapping (does PJ nervously adjust his tie when he hears about this trade possibility?) Mr. Baker, care to handle this one.
- Aint that the truth…honestly…we do that trade and I would be in favor of just buying him out and letting him go elsewhere the rest of the season.
January 17th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Delonte West is older than the average age of the Portland Trail Blazers. He is older than all of the incredible players on the “23 year old all star team”.
He might be a very gifted athlete, and show signs of great potential. But he would be a very late bloomer indeed.
January 17th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
I wouldn’t buy out Davis. Our team needs a little attitude if you ask me.
I don’t want J-Will. I want the Sacramento version of J-Will. The flashy streetball no D playing version. He’d at least bring up the entertainment factor on our squad. But I’m not sure if that player exists anymore.
January 17th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
He might be a very gifted athlete, and show signs of great potential. But he would be a very late bloomer indeed.
- Late bloomer?? What are you expecting him to bloom into?? I think the assumption is that he’d be an average bench player on their team…
January 17th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
I don’t want J-Will. I want the Sacramento version of J-Will. The flashy streetball no D playing version. He’d at least bring up the entertainment factor on our squad. But I’m not sure if that player exists anymore.
- Its amazing to think of what a dynamic player he once was…the R Moss/J Will commerical was one of the best Nike has done in a long time.
January 17th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Does anyone know can this trade happen with Heat?I dont want Wally in Heat jersey…..
January 17th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
I’ll take the current white chocolate thank you. Wally is nice and all but he’s not the backup scoring punch he NEEDS to be for us. As for next in line for whipping boy:
West
January 17th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=831~1027~193~933~2423&teams=14~14~25~25~25&te=&cash=
January 17th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Then maybe presti gives Miami the 2.8 trade exception to get Mournings salary off the books.
January 17th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
davis is some scoring punch…. but with all those turnovers we are likely gonna set an all-time NBA record.
January 17th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
I think if Brand is available we HAVE to sign him. MVP caliber players usually aren’t freely available on the free agent market.
Who cares about how old he is..worst case scenario you can trade him in 3-4 years and get a ton of value i.e. Ray Allen.
How much do people here think he’d cost?
January 17th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
I agree with AK, Presti should jump at that.
January 17th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
“I wouldn’t buy out Davis. Our team needs a little attitude if you ask me.”
I think I agree with this assessment. However, I actually know so little about Ricky Davis and the notorious “character” issues.
Is bad character, in this case, selfish basketball? bad chemistry with teams? violent? bad citizen? brooding? gives a bad interview? egotistical? unreliable? All of the above? Some of the above? Which ones?
In general, I’m not currently worried about Davis destroying our winning culture. (Should I be worried about him bring bad PR to Seattle just when public support is needed to keep the team?)
January 17th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
That trade is a no-brainer.
January 17th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
More than we should be paying. Honestly getting a guy like brand in free agency kills all chance of building a TEAM. Sure we would have 2 all-stars… and nothing else, sound familiar?!?!
January 17th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
The problem I see with doing the Heat trade and clearing all that cap space now is that this year is not all that great for free agents - at least not as good as next year or the year after.
January 17th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
“Then maybe presti gives Miami the 2.8 trade exception to get Mournings salary off the books. ”
I hope not … why would you give away a nearly $3 mil trade exception for nothing?
“Who cares about how old he is..worst case scenario you can trade him in 3-4 years and get a ton of value i.e. Ray Allen.”
I care … anyone who can remember Vin Baker or the smoking remains of Chris Webber should too… Your worst case scenario is more like a best case scenario … if his Achilles doesn’t heal right and he has no lift and can’t run, we get a Vin Baker-sized cap slug sitting on the roster for the next 6 years. Been there, seen that. Past performance is no guarantee of future return. I want to see Brand in action for at least 20-30 games post-surgery before throwing max money his way.
Since virtually no players signed to max deals ever finish those deals with the team that signed them better be sure your team will be good enough to compete for a ring in the next 2 years. I don’t see the Sonics being that close.
January 17th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
“The problem I see with doing the Heat trade and clearing all that cap space now is that this year is not all that great for free agents - at least not as good as next year or the year after. ”
Just because we’d get the cap space to move doesn’t mean that we’d have to commit it in the next season.
If we can’t capitalize on the free agent market next year, we would just need to make some short term moves to be able to position ourselves the year after.
In short, the trade expands options.
January 17th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
D_G Says:
“Wally Z and Watson for J. Williams, Ricky Davis and D. Wright.
Gotta get excited about three questions:
1) With Ridenour platooning with “White Chocolate” would we get to call him “White Vanilla”?
2) Who would PJ vent on once Wally is gone?
which leads to question 3
3) Is Ricky Davis capable of snapping (does PJ nervously adjust his tie when he hears about this trade possibility?) Mr. Baker, care to handle this one. ”
1) Vanilla Pudding
2) Sene might be back sometime
3) Did anyone see PJ hold his hand to his neck and grimmous the other night? Freaky…
January 17th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
I guess I’m a bit serious. Somehow I know that Ricky Davis has got a bad reputation, but I don’t know enough to know how he “earned” it.
I remember the “triple-double”. I remember him having a hard time sharing the floor with an 18 year old rookie (LBJ).
But I guess I haven’t paid enough attention to know why he is a “bad egg”
January 17th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Baker and Webber were nowhere NEAR as good as Brand is now. Neither are Allen and Rashard frankly (all offense, no defense).
Seriously, he’d be a tremedous sign if the $ were somewhat reasonable. The injury risk is something I’d be willing to accept.
Hows much is your guess?
January 17th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
“The problem I see with doing the Heat trade and clearing all that cap space now is that this year is not all that great for free agents - at least not as good as next year or the year after.” {courtsense}
That comment made no sense whatsoever.
“I think if Brand is available we HAVE to sign him. MVP caliber players usually aren’t freely available on the free agent market.” {taro}
Why would Elton Brand sign with the Seattle Supersonics? In all likelihood, Brand would re-sign with the Los Angeles Clippers before joining this joke of a franchise. Besides, I’m somewhat concerned about Brand’s injury history at this piont. In any event, it’s quite that Brand will decline to exercise the early termination in his contract for next season.
“I think I agree with this assessment. However, I actually know so little about Ricky Davis and the notorious “character” issues.
Is bad character, in this case, selfish basketball? bad chemistry with teams? violent? bad citizen? brooding? gives a bad interview? egotistical? unreliable? All of the above? Some of the above? Which ones?” {D_G}
The thought of Ricky Davis and P.J. Carlesimo jarring at each other is absolutely priceless to me.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
More than we should be paying. Honestly getting a guy like brand in free agency kills all chance of building a TEAM. Sure we would have 2 all-stars… and nothing else, sound familiar?!?!
- I don’t get this comment. Say the season finishes “normally” we would possibly have a starting line-up next year of:
PG: D. Rose
SG: K. Durant
SF: J. Green
PF: E. Brand
C: Wilcox/Collison
That is not a team of 2 stars…in fact it is a team of what we should all hope is FOUR stars…that IMO is the best case scenario we could ever imagine for using our cap money. Name the last All-Star PF that has been a FA…Boozer (not even all-star capable when he was a FA…and he screwed over a blind man to get there)
January 17th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
“Baker and Webber were nowhere NEAR as good as Brand is now. ”
Look again. Baker was 20 and 10 like clockwork every year in Milwaukee and his first year here until he got maxed out.
“Seriously, he’d be a tremedous sign if the $ were somewhat reasonable. The injury risk is something I’d be willing to accept.
Hows much is your guess? ”
Hang on a second … Baker and Webber aren’t as good as Brand and both those guys got the max, but you’d sign Brand if the money was reasonable.
How much will he get? The max. He’s already making max money. You don’t opt out to take a pay cut.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Steve, what do you mean by ‘max’ money? Max in years (7) or is there a yearly $$ limit in the NBA that I’m unaware of?
January 17th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Look again. Baker was 20 and 10 like clockwork every year in Milwaukee and his first year here until he got maxed out.
- Hmmm, being that Brand has never had a season that was worse then Baker’s two best seasons…Im not really sure you are making a fair comparison.
- The Webber comparisons are more applicable…at least Webber had shown a history of being injury prone. You simply do not get a 23ppg/12rpg/3bpg as a FA very often.
- I would imagine his contract would be in the 5 year 100 million or 6 year 125 million dollar range (assuming s/t)…or about as much as people were willing to give Rashard this summer.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Speaking of Rashard…poor guy is really struggling these days…wonder how long Orlando fans will be OK with that signing??
Three Player PERs:
Allen: 16.43
Lewis: 15.92
Wally: 15.86
Be no one here would’ve placed money on that sort of similarity at the beginning of the year.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
I don’t see much possibility of Presti trying to get cap space to make any big moves for next season. About the only moves I expect to see between now and tip-off next season are:
1. Letting the Thomas contract expire.
2. Attempts to trade players with contracts beyond the 2008-09 season (Watson, Ridnour, Collison, Wilkins) for contracts that expire before the 2009-10 season.
3. Sign West & Swift to one-year QOs or let them walk to make room for a whole lotta rookies.
4. Skip no steps. Trying to keep as much of the current team and coaching staff intact for next season is the best bet for landing a top 5 pick in three consecutive drafts.
Then the total retool comes in the summer of 2009. New team gets to work out the kinks in an empty building for a year before rolling into OKC ready to compete. Thrillsville.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
First of all this deal needs to go through and we can greatly benefit with those expiring contracts. I agree with Dave signing another max contract for another star is probably not the best thing right now.
Fact of the matter is we are rebuilding and we need to be patient. I say pick up a quality role player like Carlos Delfino or a presumably 3rd option like Antawn Jamison and hopefully you get lucky enough in the draft so that you can define a core group of individuals who can become comfortable witth one another over next year. I would say draft big no matter what in the draft..DeAndre Jordan would be the way to go. Rose would be nice, but there are quality PG’s in this draft and few centers. Mayo is too much of a headcase and Durant needs the ball just as much as he does..wont work.
Starting Lineup 2008-2009
PG-Ridnour (Love him as a starter..see good things to come)
SF-Antawn Jamison/Delfino
SF- Durant ( If his feet get better he will be unstoppable)
PF-Green/Collison
C- DeAndre Jordan/Wilcox
Also picking up Jerryd Bayless using Suns 1st round pick would be a good option. He is an aggresisve player who can keep the game uptempo. In a year this group could really cause some damage.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Myk,
I see where you say we get 4 stars but theres a problem with this forums line of thinking that has been worrying me for a while.
crappy team does not equal high draft pick, just ask the celtics
all this bad season means is that we get the best 2nd or 3rd best odds to get a pick (no way we steal the worst recod in the league form the wolves). Everyone is acting like having Rose next season is a foregone conclusion. My biggest concern with this team lies at PG, no one on this team has the leadership we need. Durant is an awesome player and can win games for us, but I see him as pretty soft spoken. Don’t get me wrong he’s a hard worker and his work ethic can carry us for chunks at a time, but I don’t see him as a vocal leader.
BLowing our load on elton brand is more of a gamble than we should be taking this early in durants progress. Lets say he goes down, are we willing to roll out a team that looks more like this for half a season?
PG: Watson/Ridnour
SG: K. Durant
SF: J. Green
PF: Collison/Wilcox
C: Wilcox/Collison
Sorry this season has shown me enough to see the diffrence between throwing money at a problem vs of wheeling and dealing or making good draft picks. Matching a 20 year old up and coming with a 29 (30 by then) all-star does not win championships. Just my 2cents, I’d rather see the sonics have more flexibility in years to come than a baker-esque contradct that prevents any progress while KDs in his prime.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
“Steve, what do you mean by ‘max’ money? Max in years (7) or is there a yearly $$ limit in the NBA that I’m unaware of? ”
Both.
http://www.nba.com/news/cba_summary_050804.html
by the way, max years is now 6, not 7.
D. Maximum Player Salaries
As under the prior CBA, in the first year of a new contract a player may receive the greater of 105% of the player’s prior salary, or:
0-6 years of service: 25% of Salary Cap ($12 million this year).
7-9 years of service: 30% of Salary Cap ($14.4 million this year).
10 or more years of service: 35% of Salary Cap ($16.8 million this year).
The maximum player salaries will continue to be based on a 48.04% of BRI Salary Cap (not on the new, higher Salary Cap).
January 17th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
“1) With Ridenour platooning with “White Chocolate” would we get to call him “White Vanilla”?”
More like Whip Cream.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
all this bad season means is that we get the best 2nd or 3rd best odds to get a pick (no way we steal the worst recod in the league form the wolves). Everyone is acting like having Rose next season is a foregone conclusion. My biggest concern with this team lies at PG, no one on this team has the leadership we need. Durant is an awesome player and can win games for us, but I see him as pretty soft spoken. Don’t get me wrong he’s a hard worker and his work ethic can carry us for chunks at a time, but I don’t see him as a vocal leader.
- The Sonics would already know who they had drafted before they made the decision to sign Brand. An example would be that if they decided that Beasely made more sense they could just as well sign Arenas and have:
PG: Arenas
SG: Durant
SF: Green
PF: Beasely
C: Collison
January 17th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Based on the rules Brand’s Max contract should be either:
5 year 118million
6 year 130million (requires S/T)
His final salary in the 6th year would be 27.18million. Lots of money, but I feel worth the risk.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
More like Whip Cream.
- lol
January 17th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
The Arenas idea is interesting. Didn’t they do an ESPORTS NBA Live 2008 commercial together? That was pretty hilarious. If we do get Arenas, we’d have to fill the PF and C spot with nothing but rebounding and shotblocking. We’re going to need those offensive boards for the amount of bricks KD and Agent 0 are going to throw up.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
MYK collison is putting up Brand type numbers..do we really need another PF?
January 17th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Steve Says:
Look again. Baker was 20 and 10 like clockwork every year in Milwaukee and his first year here until he got maxed out.
Change “until” to “before” since Baker only put up 14 & 6 during the season before the max-out. Not exactly a max-out worthy season.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
MYK collison is putting up Brand type numbers..do we really need another PF?
- Two Collisons could barely put up what Elton Brand does…go check out his stats plese…
January 17th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
Especially an aging one who has been ridden with injuries for a max contract?
January 17th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
And that’s for his first year … after that the amount increases by 15% a season.
Brand’s a great player … but is there a reasonable chance he’ll still be a 20 and 10 player at age 34 when he’s making around $25 mil? Maybe, risky though.
I’m not sure it’s in his best interests to opt out anyways.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Change “until” to “before” since Baker only put up 14 & 6 during the season before the max-out. Not exactly a max-out worthy season.
- Yes…basically Baker had three pretty decent seasons…although they are a bit hollow due to his lack of defensive numbers. As I said before…Brand at age 19 in his first year in the league was already putting up better all around numbers then Baker. He simply is not a valid comparison…heck I’d use Kemp as a better comparison than Baker.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Collison PPG 9.3 | RPG 8.9 in 27 mins of play.
Brand(Last Season before injury)- PPG 20.5 | RPG 9.3-39 mins of play.
Truthfully, I dont think he is going to put up those numbers again. I’ll take a young and healthy Collison
January 17th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
15%?? I thought it was 10%…that does push the contract to:
5 years $134
6 years $155
That does make it a bit more hard to swallow. I would argue that he probably is not going to get max dollars in that sense. Just don’t see any owner willing to give a guy $35 million a year.
I think my offer above is more than reasonable on both sides and I don’t see why it wouldn’t be in Brand’s best interest to opt-out…guaranteed money is better than no money.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
Collison PPG 9.3 | RPG 8.9 in 27 mins of play.
Brand(Last Season before injury)- PPG 20.5 | RPG 9.3-39 mins of play.
Truthfully, I dont think he is going to put up those numbers again. I’ll take a young and healthy Collison
- Hmmm…don’t know where to go with this…your numbers are not telling you what you think they are…
BTW, Collison is only one year younger than Brand.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
Is Collison still young?
January 17th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
“Change “until” to “before” since Baker only put up 14 & 6 during the season before the max-out. Not exactly a max-out worthy season.”
He maxed out on booze too
January 17th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
Brand is not worth the money on such a young team as the Sonics.
Miami wants salary cap relief. Seattle has cap space. We should take Mourning and Smush Parker’s contracts plus their first round pick. Use the two exceptions. Send Parker to the D League. This move would save Miami $10 million. It make the trade of Watson more likely since we would have an emergency backup PG. They can’t wait for a draft pick to develop while Shaq gets old. Seattle would get two top five picks once again and still have guys to trade.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
He’s 27 still has four years on his contract..good health
January 17th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
“Does anyone know can this trade happen with Heat?I dont want Wally in Heat jersey…..”
Wally wants south beach. South beach needs Wally.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Wally wants south beach. South beach needs Wally.
- Wally would probably hate South Beach…think of all the guys he’d have to compete with AND all the guys he’d have to beat off with a stick…he’d have no peace and quiet
January 17th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Who would you rather have DeAndre Jordan or Mayo?
January 17th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
I thought you were joking when you claimed Magic didn’t have as good a rookie season as Chris Paul because Chris Paul had a higher PER than Magic did in his rookie year. I guess that the PER number is the only thing that matters when analyzing a player’s performance.
Let’s play this PER game:
Mike Dunleavy: 17.88
Stephen Jackson: 14.4
You would think that using PER as the primary engine of analysis that the Warriors would welcome a trade that sent Jackson to Indiana for Mike Dunleavy, assuming that the salaries were equal. We all know that the Warriors would laugh hysterically at that deal. Why? There is more to a player than his PER and stats. You are embarrassing a fan of stats such as myself with some of your arguments.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
“Change “until” to “before” since Baker only put up 14 & 6 during the season before the max-out. Not exactly a max-out worthy season. ”
True …what was the alternative though… Austin Croshere? Otis Thorpe?
January 17th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
“There is more to a player than his PER and stats.” - Alex
Is this the real Alex Chan?
January 17th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Frozenropers said: “I always thought the rest of the sports world believed that Seattle was right next to Egypt?”
At least people don’t think you ride kangaroos to work, says the Aussie.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
True …what was the alternative though…
Let’s hope that thought process isn’t used during the Swift negotiations.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
You would think that using PER as the primary engine of analysis that the Warriors would welcome a trade that sent Jackson to Indiana for Mike Dunleavy, assuming that the salaries were equal. We all know that the Warriors would laugh hysterically at that deal. Why? There is more to a player than his PER and stats. You are embarrassing a fan of stats such as myself with some of your arguments
- Well a fan of stats such as yourself should get of your little Steven Jackson love afair and see that the games they lost when he were out were against:
@Utah, Utah
Cleveland
Dallas
Detroit
@LA Clippers
So…amazingly enough they lost one game to a non-playoff team. Perhaps you should look up small sample size and see why Steven Jackson isn’t god…
- If you can’t appreciate CP3’s greatness that is fine…heck if you want to say Magic had the greatest rookie season as a PG that is fine. However, as I said before…one of the PRIMARY reasons Magic’s season is looked at as so great is the fact that he ended up being one of the top players of all time. If Chris Paul continues to put up the numbers he has put up in the last 3 years for the next 12 (and add in a couple championships) Im sure the debate will much closer than you believe it was.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Let’s hope that thought process isn’t used during the Swift negotiations.
- Ain’t that the truth…guess the thoughts he would average 10 and 8 this year were a bit lofty, eh??
January 17th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
If you were Brand and had multiple, similar offers and had spent your career with the Baby Bulls and Don Sterling, would you want to take the offer from the current Sonics organization?
January 17th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
For Heat to do the deal mentioned they would likely be paying luxury tax next season something the owner would not do this year. Maybe he has change of heart? I am skeptical they do that deal and give away their flexibility this summer.
Heat would have to go 30-14 to get to 38 wins and have the slightest chance of playoffs. I think it is too late.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
“I don’t see why it wouldn’t be in Brand’s best interest to opt-out…guaranteed money is better than no money. ”
He’s already under contract. If he opts out, where would he go? I believe Charlotte’s the only team with cap room to sign a max deal without having to work out a S&T. So it’s the old sign max deal with crappy team for rest of career, or stay with current team and then sign on with contender at MLE.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
Samuel Dalembert would be a nice pickup. Wilcox, Gelabale and 2 2nd round pick?
January 17th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Okay, so maybe I’ve got it all wrong and maybe Ricky Davis’ bad rep is all hype. Or maybe I just made it up in my head.
Anyhow, I did a web search and this is all I found.
http://www.thebrushback.com/bushturns_full.htm
January 17th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
“- If you can’t appreciate CP3’s greatness that is fine…heck if you want to say Magic had the greatest rookie season as a PG that is fine. However, as I said before…one of the PRIMARY reasons Magic’s season is looked at as so great is the fact that he ended up being one of the top players of all time. If Chris Paul continues to put up the numbers he has put up in the last 3 years for the next 12 (and add in a couple championships) Im sure the debate will much closer than you believe it was.”
As a rookie Magic led the Lakers to a chamionship. When Abdul-Jabbar got injured before the last game of the championship series agains the Sixers, he scored 42 points, got 15 rebounds, dished out 7 assists, all while playing the center position.
I’d say that pretty much beats the hell out of anything Chris Paul did in his rookie year. Chris Paul is an amazing player. I’d trade KD straight up for him, but if the discussion is about rookie year accomplishments then this is just a stupid, stupid argument.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Keeping with the great Steven Jackson…lets take a look at the teams they played when he got back:
LA Clippers
@ Toronto
@ NYK
@ Boston (L)
@ Washington
@ Philly
Phoenix
@ Sacramento
Houston
@Seattle
So…they beat five horrible teams (Seattle, NY, Sacramento, Philly and LA Clippers)
They beat three decent teams: @Toronto, @Washington, Houston (2nd game of a road back to back)
And one good team: Phoenix
January 17th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
haha well done D_G
January 17th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
“True …what was the alternative though…
Let’s hope that thought process isn’t used during the Swift negotiations. ”
Funny … but can you actually come up with another name, or is it just as easy as dialing 1-800-POWRFWD.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
He’s already under contract. If he opts out, where would he go? I believe Charlotte’s the only team with cap room to sign a max deal without having to work out a S&T. So it’s the old sign max deal with crappy team for rest of career, or stay with current team and then sign on with contender at MLE.
- Philly is another team…however, Im pretty sure that most teams would be jumping at a PF (regardless of whether it is “logical” or not…)
As a rookie Magic led the Lakers to a chamionship. When Abdul-Jabbar got injured before the last game of the championship series agains the Sixers, he scored 42 points, got 15 rebounds, dished out 7 assists, all while playing the center position.
- So…you are saying CP3 with a group of HoFers around him would not have been as good as Magic Johnson? On top of that…you are saying that because of one game Magic had a better Rookie season?? Hmmm…
Like I said…if CP3 only had the second best season EVER…good for him. But, Magic is getting credit for his overall reputation, not just his performance during that one season.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
The Warriors are 45-30 with Stephen Jackson. Seventy-five games is a pretty good sample size.
The Pacers post-trade are 33-49 with Mike Dunleavy. Prior to the deal, they hadn’t missed the playoffs in a decade and were actually the sixth seed in the Eastern Conference before they traded for Mike Dunleavy.
I guess the Spurs would trade Bruce Bowen for Mike Dunleavy, if the salaries were equal. After all, Dunleavy to Bowen is clearly the superior player if all we’re looking at is PER.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Let’s hope that thought process isn’t used during the Swift negotiations. ”
Funny … but can you actually come up with another name, or is it just as easy as dialing 1-800-POWRFWD.
- OK, I am really confused now…so it is definsible to give Baker the max contract because there wasn’t a better alternative?? But it is not definsible to give Brand a max trade despite the fact that there isn’t a better alternative?
January 17th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
Re: The proposed Miami trade.
I’m perfectly happy with the main guts of the trade. I’ll happily put up with White Chocolate and Ricky for half a season with the flexibility that we gain at the end of it.
But if I’m Presti, I look at Dorell Wright tacked onto the end of that, and think “I’ve already got Durant and Green. I really don’t need him”.
I’d be either asking for Zo’s remaining contract, and/or pushing for a first rounder (probably around 2010, to match the Phoenix pick, as there’s no way we’d get Miami’s 2008 pick), and/or getting a third team involved and seeing what we can pick up.
Would we be interested in Ike Diogu, much as he’s very similar to Green? Have to be thinking he’d be worth a better shot than Wright.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
I guess the Spurs would trade Bruce Bowen for Mike Dunleavy, if the salaries were equal. After all, Dunleavy to Bowen is clearly the superior player if all we’re looking at is PER.
- Bowen plays signficantly better defense then Dunleavy, which is one of the admitted short comings of the PER formula. Are you going to argue that Allen/Lewis/Wally don’t all play a similar level of poor defense?
- Golden St. has become a good team because Baron Davis is having a pretty amazing season. Stephen Jackson might be helping out…but you are giving way to much credit to the later and not nearly enough credit to the former…
- So they are 45-30…take out that soft 9 game schedule that people are unreasonably giving way to much credit to Steven Jackson for and they are 36-29…55.00% ball…
January 17th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
More like Whip Cream.
Or even more accurately……..Whipped Cream.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
“Are you going to argue that Allen/Lewis/Wally don’t all play a similar level of poor defense?”
Absolutely. Take a look at Wally’s on court vs. off court defensive numbers from the past two seasons since you are such a fan of stats.
It should be noted that Rashard Lewis is also playing out of position too. His PER would be higher if he were labeled a SF, a position that he played at for ninety percent of the time he was a Sonic.
If anything, comparing Wally to Rashard and Ray after thirty-six games is pretty premature, isn’t it?
January 17th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
There are many kinds of 15 PER (or 12 or 18)- i.e. the blend of shot taking, making assists, rebounds, etc. The blend matters. Some blends fit teams and fill needs better than others.
I think NBA executives should do far more close to equal talent lateral trades for fit & hoped for synergy. But they don’t.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
“OK, I am really confused now…so it is definsible to give Baker the max contract because there wasn’t a better alternative?? But it is not definsible to give Brand a max trade despite the fact that there isn’t a better alternative? ”
No Myk, I’m saying that it’s easier to criticize retrospectively than to come up with something original. So instead of maxing out Baker after a down year, who should they have signed? I’d really like to know. Remember at that point nobody knows that Baker has a drinking problem.
So check out what was available in free agency that year … I don’t remember if Tyrone Hill was a free agent then too, but if he was that might have been the only other quality PF on the market that season … Austin Croshere … ancient-ass Otis Thorpe …
January 17th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
“But if I’m Presti, I look at Dorell Wright tacked onto the end of that, and think “I’ve already got Durant and Green. I really don’t need him”.”
I may be wrong about this - but I don’t think they’ve tendered Dorell Wright’s QO for next year yet, so you can think of him as an expiring deal too.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
“For Heat to do the deal mentioned they would likely be paying luxury tax next season something the owner would not do this year. Maybe he has change of heart? I am skeptical they do that deal and give away their flexibility this summer.”
Just to be clear, Crow . . . are you talking about the Wally and Watson for Davis, Williams and Wright? (Other Heat trades have been mentioned above).
January 17th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
Myk, the point is don’t spend the money it would take to get any max player. With the kind of garbage we’d probably have left over we would be a single injury away from lottery bound AGAIN!!!! Seattle is the frickin envy of other teams right now because we have the opportunity to start fom the ground up, get people young and develop them, and get multiple guys w/ 4-5 years under their belt. Do you think we have the potential to win a championship? ’cause I do and a lot of guys on this board do too. It won’t be won in 2 years and having a very likely dead weight in brand when we search for “that last piece” is gonna kill all championship hopes. It is rebuild time as many have said and at this point you gotta leave the past in the past.
Just trust that there are 20-10 guys on their way up and others waiting for us in college. 20-10 on this team right now may put us into the 8th spot in the west… but in 4-5 years we’ll only get to the 4th with a 33 YO brand. Bank on the fact that good players are out there and max contracts are earned by injury-free, solid players coming into their prime, not leaving it.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
So it’s settled. Looking forward to the PG duo of White Chocolate and Whipped Cream dominating the league. Just imagine how sick they’d be if they stepped on the court together.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
“Out of curiosity why do you always reference ‘Jeff Green’s superhuman basketball IQ’?”
Because I can.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Forget Magic’s Hall of Fame career - even if he’d never played another NBA game after winning the Finals MVP in ‘80, that was still the greatest rookie season ever by a PG.
He led his team to the top of the mountain as a rookie PG, and when the Championship was at stake, he took over and brought home the trophy. Isn’t that why they play the damn game?! He literally couldn’t have accomplished anything greater - can you say the same for CP3’s rookie season? No - because he didn’t win anything.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
I consider “Jeff Green has such a high basketball iq” to be more of the same redundant drivel and hackneyed arguments that most spout on this blog, with the exception of those that consistently bring something fresh or informative to the table.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Steve said: “I may be wrong about this - but I don’t think they’ve tendered Dorell Wright’s QO for next year yet, so you can think of him as an expiring deal too.”
Ah, that sounds better.
Of course, I’d still rather go after Zo, as he clears an extra $700K off the books.
And I’d still damn well go for that first rounder.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Until I hear a local beat reporter in either city say that the trade talk is for real I am skeptical of this rumor. Too many rumors are BS and a lot of ESPN initiated rumors are BS.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
By the way Myk, you were right about year-to-year contract increases … it’s not 15%, it’s 10.5%. Now it’s me who’s thinking of old CBAs.
“Bird and Early Bird Contracts may increase by up to 10.5% of year-one salary (down from 12.5%).
Other contracts may increase by up to 8% of year-one salary (down from 10%).”
January 17th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
“No - because he didn’t win anything.”
Sure he did….he won the title for the “best PER ever for a rookie PG.” That’s obviously more impressive than NBA Finals MVP courtsense.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Dave said:
“Seattle is the frickin envy of other teams right now because we have the opportunity to start fom the ground up”
Yes, Yes, and Yes!!
I pity those poor fans in San Antonio!
January 17th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Yes D_G that is the Miami deal I am referring to.
And you are right Steve, D Wright is expiring unless you make him not. The qualifying offer could come this summer (don’t have to give it) and gives you restricted free agent match rights and only kicks in if the player accepts it.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
My rule of thumb is that almost all trade rumors that start with a one or couple of sentence mention (often outside the affected towns) and without even a moderately specified source are just speculation.
In this case Sheridan gave just a few sentences with the source as vague it is could possibly be “…it is said…”
Maybe I am wrong but usually this rumors are column filler / interest provokers to draw and keep readers. If he had a scoop they’d probably play it bigger. Though it could be more about team than reporter. Perhaps one side or the other wanted the rumor out there even if it is phony or just casually discussed or unlikely to happen. Hard to say what what’s real before it is.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
Well Crow, you just brought me back down to earth. Unlike any other trade possibility mentioned out there this one seemed to have some justification from the perspective of the other side–salary cap relief.
But I assume that you are correct and this deal does not provide the Heat cap relief for next season.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Alex Chan Says:
“Sure he did….he won the title for the “best PER ever for a rookie PG.” That’s obviously more impressive than NBA Finals MVP.”
Darn it, Alex - you’re right. I keep forgetting that the reason they play the game is to achieve the highest possible PER or some such other relatively meaningless stat - and that clearly trumps winning a championship. I’ve gotta get my head in the game!
January 17th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
I just got home from work and decided to speed read this. It makes it far more interesting to scroll through and watch the highlights jump out at you post after post. Today is definitely one of the better blogs.
My own two cents worth is that if Miami were desperate enough I would pull the trigger on this trade fast.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
I forget who asked about Dorell Wright - his being here wouldn’t impact Durant or Green at all - Wright would be auditioning to replace Damien Wilkins and Gelabale as a SG/SF off the bench.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
The Heat might be willing to do such a deal if they saw it as last chance to make O’Neal era work again (or just sel hope and tickets) and if they felt they could deal with potential luxury tax issue next season with other later moves. They could think that.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
I assume that one or more of the local Sonics reporters will seek team comment on this rumor eventually. Often you get a non-response but sometimes you get a clear no.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Steve, I was against signing Baker and didn’t have an alternative in mind at the time. I’d have looked for an S&T but if a top player wasn’t to be had i’d have stuck with the (suck ass) roster they had at the time and put Grant at PF & whatever at center (
January 17th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
My impression is that PER is an overrated stat . . .
Did Ray Allen’s PER drop this year? If so, I attibute this not to his game slowing down, but because he is no longer the number one option.
His value hasn’t changed.
In other words . . . a number 1 option on a mediocre team is the equivolent of a 2.5 option on an elite team. But the PER statistic is designed to give the perception that the former is better.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
Oops, hit submit…
(probably Greg Foster).
I know the Supes were pressured by Payton/Goodwins to do the deal. That still didn’t make it the right move. It was time to realize the roster was going nowhere and a max deal to the wrong guy would’ve killed the future, as it ended up doing.
Similar to the correct decision to let Rashard go this year.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Why would anyone want Gilbert Arenas? Doesn’t the Wizards W-L without him tell you anything?
Speaking of which, does anyone know the Wizards’ W-L record this season without Arenas and WITH Antonio Daniels? AD missed several games when Arenas was out. I saw some stat that the Wizards had a very poor record in games that AD missed.
So what is the Wizards’ record this season without Arneas and with AD?
January 17th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
“Seattle is the frickin envy of other teams right now because we have the opportunity to start fom the ground up”
What are you smoking?
January 17th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
“Seattle is the frickin envy of other teams right now because we have the opportunity to start fom the ground up”
I envy Boston, San Antonio, Lakers, Dallas, Portland and any team that has an owner not threatning to relocate!
January 17th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
I pity those poor fans in San Antonio!
LMAO!
That search for “that last piece” line was pretty sweet as well.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
An interesting little read, with a little bit of Karl-era Sonics nostalgia.
Karl, Sloan Still Trying To Outdo Each Other
You’ll enjoy the bit about fake scouting reports!
January 17th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Allen’s PER dropped so far this year partly from fewer shots, partly from poorer FG%.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Dipper, the Wizards record without Arenas is 17-11. The Wizards record with Antonio Daniels is 17-13.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
http://matthewyglesias.theatlantic.com/archives/2007/12/usage_and_efficiency_allen_ver.php
This article talks about how Ray is a somewhat of an efficiency anomaly. Very well written piece.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
I’m not even the slightest bit interested in a clown like Arenas.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
The Wizards then were 3-6 with Arenas?
I think AD played in all 9 games in which Arenas played. If that is true, then when Arenas was out and AD was playing, the Wizards were 14-7. Is that right?
In other words the Wizards without Arenas, but with everyone else healthy, are 14-7 this season. If I read your numbers correctly.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
sweet, I’m not interested in Brand.
most rebuiding teams only have pieces to get to where they want to be, but we have the room to add quality contracts and possibly add some great guys from this upcoming draft. Laugh all you want but anyone that is not excited about the upcoming years for the sonics is missing the big picture completely. If ur in the group that believes they won’t be here then fine, but in 5 years no one from this forum will be dreaming about being the spurs. just the way I see it, we haven’t made those moves necessary but our position is much better than those bottom feeders tied down to huge contracts (cough, knicks). the future is bright, don’t taint it with players on the the downslope of their career.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Well, if we’re gonna take the next step in the demolition process by pulling a trade with Miami, then let’s really go for it:
Miami gets:
Watson - a defensive-minded PG to start next to DWade
WallyZ - a proven 3-pt threat to replace Kapono
Thomas - a playoff-tested big man off the bench to replace Zo
Phoenix’s ‘08 1st rounder (#27) and a mid 2nd rounder (#52)
Seattle gets:
Jason Williams - expiring contract
Ricky Davis - expiring contract
Dorell Wright - expiring contract
Mark Blount - a big veteran center for 2 more years
Miami’s ‘08 1st-round pick (#2)
January 17th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
sign me up courtsense!! Make sure we get a servicable big to take the place of thomas (blount might be enough..) and THAT would guarantee we get whatever pick we want in the top 5. Or trade for the right pieces on draft day
January 17th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
“I consider “Jeff Green has such a high basketball iq” to be more of the same redundant drivel and hackneyed arguments that most spout on this blog, with the exception of those that consistently bring something fresh or informative to the table.” - Alex Chan
“Sure he did….he won the title for the “best PER ever for a rookie PG.” That’s obviously more impressive than NBA Finals MVP.”- Alex Chan
Anyone else see the irony in these statements?
But I guess its right in line with……
a. Slamming Rashard Lewis for a DUI
b. Slamming GP for calling a stripper a “whore”
c. Slamming KT for domestic violence.
Then turning around and praising Steven Jackson and Shawn Kemp.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
“I consider “Jeff Green has such a high basketball iq” to be more of the same redundant drivel and hackneyed arguments that most spout on this blog, with the exception of those that consistently bring something fresh or informative to the table.”
Out of curiosity…..why? Is it because there are no stats on hoops IQ? I can understand how that would be frustrating for you.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Last night I had a dream - in which I brought something fresh or informative to the table.
Then I woke up…and I was still the same ol’ courtsense - full of redundant drivel and hackneyed arguments.
I hate when that happens!
January 17th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
the University of Washington announced today that the regents, tyee, have given the athletic admin to work on a $300 million dollar remodel of Husky Stadium. The UW will match half of the money, to $150 mil from the state; the state portion being the extended hotel/motel/restaurant/car rental tax that is, as the interim AD said on kjr, being used by the Mariners, Seahawks, and Sonics.
Sonics?
And then he talked up that it was for a private institution. I guess he was talking about the Tyee Club, cause I am a student, granted, an older one, but I do not need a new arena.
Anyway, did he misspeak, or would the inner rim now spill the beans, or maybe this too will go without comment from the city, and the plan makers, looking for the right time to feel good about a plan that is getting beat to the punch in the media, and state, here.
What is at least the plan for the plan?
Thank,
the guy watching the worst team slip away and hating it.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
I hate redundant drivel too. With that said
The sonics should shoot more 3s. Steven Jackson is awesome. Jeff Green has a low hoops IQ. Stats rule (even though I don’t have any stats to prove this). Rashard Lewis isn’t one dimensional. Ricky Davis isn’t a knucklehead anymore. Look at this article I ripped from so and so. Look at these stats I pulled. I haven’t posted in 2 minutes so here is another one. Assist to turnover ratio is how you measure ballhandling. BTW since Steven Jackson returned the Warriors record is. Did I mention I like the Spurs. PS Chris Paul is better than Magic Johnson because of his PER. PS: I’m a dork. PS: This is an awesome room. PS: STFU
January 17th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
You just gotta love this: the real beauty of the UW going to the Legislature to ask for $150 mil for a “public” stadium - from the same hotel, rental car, and restaurant fund that currently feeds Safeco Field and Qwest Field, no less - is that not 5 miles from Husky Stadium there is a brand new state-of-the-art, half-billion dollar, 70,000 seat football stadium that - get this - sits vacant approximately 350 days a year and that - wait for it - already draws money from that very same fund! Isn’t that incredible? What a freaking coincidence!
You may be asking yourself “why can’t the Huskies just play in Qwest Field - after all, they play on Saturdays, and the Hawks play on Sundays, so there shouldn’t be any scheduling conflicts and besides, it’s a brand new state-of-the art half-billion dollar stadium which seats 70,000 freaking fans, for God’s sake?!”
Just as a human being, when you sit back and look at this shit, you have to just bust up laughing - it’s all so freaking absurd!
January 17th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Where is the uproar from the uneducated people that say “that money should be used for other things” now?
Its ok for the Seahawks, Mariners, and now the Huskies. Sonics….no way.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
So, 6 Saturdays a year you think the kids on public assistance (athletic scholarship) can us the stadium that was built wit public money already? Hmm, interesting idea. Wouldn’t it be less costly to (I not kidding with this part) a fuking trolley from the school to Qwerst Field?
January 17th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
sorry, can’t type, angry
January 17th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Lets use the monorail money.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
Who says this is going to happen? So far it’s just a request, just like the Sonics made that request. The Sonics were rebuffed. Maybe the Huskies will be rebuffed, also.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Well Frank Chopp for one seems to be more open to the idea of taxes for Husky Stadium.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:27 pm
I think the Huskies should be allowed to play their games in Qwest Field rent-free. The public is paying for Qwest Field, so the Huskies should not have to pay any rent to Paul Allen to use it.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
Headline to be published in the Seattle Times tomorrow morning:
(I don’t have the link yet)
Huskies Announce Move to Tulsa!
January 17th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
Marcus Camby almost had a triple-double tonight:
24 rebounds!;
11 blocks!!!!;
but only 8 points.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
MartinH Says:
“An interesting little read, with a little bit of Karl-era Sonics nostalgia.
Karl, Sloan Still Trying To Outdo Each Other
You’ll enjoy the bit about fake scouting reports! ”
Yeah good article about the Sonics Jazz hayday. Reminds me of when I sat behind George on a flight to Idaho around the time he left seattle. Jackson had left Chicago and George opened up the paper and read the story about him being the top rumored guy to get the Chicago job. He read it but looked as disinterested as he possibly could be. I didn’t bother him with any questions but I always wondered what he thought of the situation leaving Seattle.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
Yes, it is true:
The citizens of Tulsa have built a football stadium for Orel Roberts Univerisity complete with Luxury Box seats befitting of a major division 1 program.
As the stadium is far superior to the one on Portage Bay the University of Washington has no choice but to move the entire campus to Tulsa, Oklahoma.
Some students have voiced their disappointment, but many still hold out hope that a large institution of higher education chooses to locate in Seattle sometime in the future.
Perhaps they let us call it “The University of Washington” a student stated with brave optimism.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
Menace, are you feeling the pressure of the economic slowdown? You sure have a lot of time to post all day despite not being a student anymore.
The more ridiculous thing from the Utah-Denver box score is Linaz Kleiza’s forty-one points. Maybe the Sonics should have drafted him instead of Petro in the 2005 draft.
Dipper, the Wizards were 3-5 with Arenas. AD played in all of those eight games. They are actually 17-12 (not 17-13 as I posted earlier) with Daniels. Without Daniels, they are 3-5.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Courtsense, I didn’t exempt myself from the plethora of bloggers that post redundant drivel and hackneyed arguments. My style of writing and incessant desire for Bill O’Reilly style fact-checking seems to have pushed Menace over the top. I respect your posts. It’s always better to have the wiser hens like you and Dipper to provide the younger fans such as myself with insight as to what the league looked like in the eighties. Come to think of it, I would put you on the same level with Crow, Dipper, and Beantown in terms of must-read and informative posts.
January 17th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
Menace said:
“Is it because there are no stats on hoops IQ? I can understand how that would be frustrating for you.”
Alex said:
“Menace, are you feeling the pressure of the economic slowdown?”
Mr. Baker said:
“sorry, can’t type, angry”
Thanks guys - that is some of the funniest shit I’ve read here in awhile. More please -
January 17th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
Sorry, but just the image of Mr. Baker sitting at his computer fuming over the UW thing is enough to make me laugh all over again.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Really. If we moved the Huskies to Qwest Field we could save another $1 Billion or more on the Sound Transit Light Rail tunnel thru Frank Chopps district on Capital Hill. We could eliminate the station at Husky Stadium, straighten out the track and/or bypass Capital Hill entirely. Oh, there already is a funded transit plan to connect the UW campus with Qwest Field.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
“I didn’t exempt myself from the plethora of bloggers that post redundant drivel and hackneyed arguments”
“Plethora” - That word always cracks me up! Ever seen “The Three Amigo’s”
January 17th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Alex, then I think my numbers are right:
When the Wizards DO have AD and do NOT have Arenas, they are 14-7.
Just saying that those numbers would suggest that AD is more important to the Wizards winning than Arenas. But there are still a lot of games to play this season.
I always liked AD, but he has sort of a different personality, in my opinion. For some reason, he seems to have a real lack of confidence. He was a really good offensive player in college, but just doesn’t seem to want to be a scorer in the NBA. I like the guy, but always wished he had more self-confidence. I don’t think he’s gotten the most out of his physical skills, because of what I perceive as a lack of self-confidence.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:23 pm
“I hate redundant drivel too. With that said
The sonics should shoot more 3s. Steven Jackson is awesome. Jeff Green has a low hoops IQ. Stats rule (even though I don’t have any stats to prove this). Rashard Lewis isn’t one dimensional. Ricky Davis isn’t a knucklehead anymore. Look at this article I ripped from so and so. Look at these stats I pulled. I haven’t posted in 2 minutes so here is another one. Assist to turnover ratio is how you measure ballhandling. BTW since Steven Jackson returned the Warriors record is. Did I mention I like the Spurs. PS Chris Paul is better than Magic Johnson because of his PER. PS: I’m a dork. PS: This is an awesome room. PS: STFU ”
You forgot “the good teams are the ones that make three pointers.”
January 17th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
“Menace, are you feeling the pressure of the economic slowdown? You sure have a lot of time to post all day despite not being a student anymore.”
I’m a student of the game. Dear pot…..the kettle called.
I think Alex is your first name. Chan your middle name….followed by Green. AC Green! From what I’ve read……you both seem to have some of the same beliefs.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
I went to a great high school b-ball game tonight: Bellarmine vs. Gig Harbor. Bellarmine’s backcourt is about as good as it gets at the high school level with two 6′3 guys who are both going to do well at the college level. Abdul Gaddy has already committed to Arizona and looks like he’ll be another stellar guard for Lute Olson, and Avery Bradley is thinking about heading to Wazzu. Both can stroke the three and dunk. Avery passes off well in the key, and Gaddy’s spin move is pretty ridiculous. Good game.
Has anyone seen Ferris or any of the other ranked teams?
January 17th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Yes Dip, the Wizards are 14-7 when AD plays and when Arenas plays.
Someone diagnose the Cleveland Cavaliers. They are 9-6 against the West (Detroit has pretty much the same record against the West) with wins at San Antonio and Dallas and at home against the Jazz, Lakers but 12-12 against the East (though they did defeat the Celtics). I suppose one could argue that they would 17-7 against the East if LeBron had not missed five games, which would put them at 26-13 and in contention with the Pistons for the Central Division crown.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Uh, Alex. That is 14-7 when AD plays and Arenas does NOT play.
I think that’s enough of that topic. lol
January 17th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Yeah, I think it’s become pretty redundant and hackneyed at this point. I wouldn’t want to lump you in with the rest of these “students of the game.”
January 17th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
AC1984?
No offense AK
January 17th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
Menace, how can post all day if you’re no longer in college or some type of graduate study? Aren’t you working? You must have a great boss, assuming that you have one. Perhaps he or she is also a “student of the game.”
I’m actually curious. Perhaps I’m going into the wrong profession. You should just list “student of the game” on your next 1040.
January 17th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
I post all day. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH
Does anyone post more than you?
January 18th, 2008 at 12:05 am
I’m a shepherd. What do you do AC?
January 18th, 2008 at 12:05 am
“I really like Jason Terry. He would be an immense improvement over Watson and Luke. But he’s too old for this team. Terry is in his prime now. The Sonics need someone who will be in his prime at the same time as Durant and Green will be in their primes. By then, Terry will be in his mid-30’s and probably not much good.”–B.D.
It’s very rare to have a team where all of the players somehow miraculously all mature at the same time like what is happening in Portland. As much as I like Green, getting rid of Allen was a mistake and I’m okay with having another 30-year-old guard on our roster. Otherwise, it’s just the blind leading the blind on the floor and we won’t win any games that way as we’ve seen this season. IMO we need more guys on our roster who can teach KD what it means to play in the league and how to win.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:15 am
I do all my posts via iPhone. Whenever Alex has a post my phone alerts me with “The Safety Dance”
January 18th, 2008 at 12:29 am
I’m finishing up my final year “studying” at William H. Gates Hall here on Montlake. Rich Cho actually gave a presentation in that building in the afternoon on the day that the Sonics held their new conference to announce that Clay Bennett’s LLC had purchased the team. The first words that Rich uttered were “I hope we can stay in Seattle.”
January 18th, 2008 at 12:29 am
“..one of the PRIMARY reasons Magic’s season is looked at as so great is the fact that he ended up being one of the top players of all time.”–Myk
And….?? No matter how you spin it, Magic is a much, much better player than Chris Paul will ever be. Better rookie season. Better career. Period. Unbelievable.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:33 am
With posts that compare Jeff Green to Ike Diogu and suggest that the Seattle Supersonics should absorb Mark Blount’s ridiculously overpriced contract in a trade, I seriously want to bang my head into this goddamn monitor that’s directly in front of me.
1. Green is a combo forward who’s most successful when stationed at the elbow on offense and guarding swingmen on defense, while Diogu is an undersized, yet stout power forward — à la Glen Davis, Craig Smith, Jason Maxiell, and Paul Millsap — who frequently positions himself down on the low block.
2. Okay, Sam Presti should definitely trade Wally Szczerbiak and Earl Watson from the Seattle Supersoncis to the Miami Heat for Jason Williams and Ricky Davis. In addition, a couple of concurrent trades whereby the Supersonics absorb Earl Barron and Alonzo Mourning’s expiring contracts — as the Heat are reportedly trying to get under the luxury tax this season — for its two trade exceptions from the sign-’n'-trade involving Rashard Lewis and the swap that included Ray Allen, respectively, would be fine in my book; of course, Barron and Mourning would be immediately released from the roster upon being obtained in their separate transactions. Yet, if the Heat don’t agree to the parameters of that deal, then so be it. As far as I’m concerned, it’s a fair and balanced deal for both ballclubs; that’s all anyone can expect in those type of situations.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=193~933~831~1027&teams=25~25~14~14&te=2477:25-469~580:25-9&cash=
3. Look, Elton Brand isn’t coming here under any circumstances—so let’s drop that idiocy. In all likelihood, Brand will decline to exercise the early termination option in his contract this off-season — as he’s recently suffered a severe ankle injury — which’ll leave him with a one-year, $16,440,000 deal. From that point, Brand will either play out the 2008-2009 season or, perhaps, he’ll sign a five-year, $108,093,000 (2009-2010: $18,166,200; 2010-2011: $19,892,400; 2011-2012: $21,618,600; 2012-2013: $23,344,800; 2013-2014: $25,071,000) maximum-level contract extension with the Los Angeles Clippers. Either way, though, this is a pointless discussion.
4. Regarding statistical analysis, Player Efficiency Rating is an objective way to measure someone’s overall offensive production. Yet, that notwithstanding, it doesn’t take into account defensive impact or certain intangibles. Anyhow, Earvin “Magic” Johnson was undoubtedly more productive than Chris Paul — even though Paul deserves credit for being much, much better than the vastly overrated Deron Williams — during their first couple of seasons in the NBA, respectively. Furthermore, Stephen Jackson and Mike Dunleavy, Jr. are both fairly talented players — with Jackson having the edge on defense and Dunleavy, Jr. being more efficient on offense — therefore, it’s basically about who between them better fits a given system.
5. If Sam Presti wants to acquire some size in the interior, then I’m still behind offering Kurt Thomas, Chris Wilcox, a 2008 first-round draft pick (via the Phoenix Suns), and a 2010 first-round draft pick (via the Phoenix Suns) — along with the draft rights of “The Three Musketeers” (i.e., Peter Fehse, Yotam Halperin, and Paccelis Morlende) — to the Memphis Grizzlies for Pau Gasol. Unlike Brand, Gasol is a reportedly attainable asset who’d fit in perfectly alongside Nick Collison along the frontline. Gasol, who’s contract lasts through the 2010-2011 season, is cost-efficient for what a player of his caliber would provide to the Seattle Supersonics.
All right, that’s all for now.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:00 am
I didn’t read through all the posts, but did anybody read on ESPN.com rumors that a Miami-Seattle deal is in very serous talks? We’re talking about getting Ricky Davis and Jason Williams. Oh, God…am I really going to have to watch Ricky Davis and Jason Williams? Please, somebody tell me I’m not going to have to watch Ricky Davis and Jason Williams. Oh, God, oh, God, oh, God…
January 18th, 2008 at 1:04 am
Jason William’s D will make Luke look like Scottie Pippen. Jason William’s shot selection will make Durant look like Brad Lohaus. Jason Williams?????? And Ricky Davis, well, he’ll sweat a lot. The man sweats more than Patrick Ewing ever did. Oh, God, I’m dying…
January 18th, 2008 at 1:06 am
Hey Alex,
Congrats on the forthcoming conclusion of your “studies” over there. I barely escaped in the Class of ‘92. Seems like another lifetime now. And no, I was not a “student of the game.” Great line, though - wonder if that will fly with the IRS this year?
You’re majoring in…what…Statistics?! That’s cool - somebody’s gotta keep track of stuff.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:08 am
Don’t get your hopes up, Lester - even if the trade goes down, you’d only be watching those guys for the next few months.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:08 am
Can we maybe pick up John Crotty, too? Let’s go find Matt Maloney. Let’s lead the league in relic little white guys who can’t guard anybody (and yes, I know it’s because the contracts are expiring and we’ll have moola to pay WHO to move to Oklahoma to watch Kevin Durant shoot jumper after jumper…
January 18th, 2008 at 1:09 am
“I didn’t read through all the posts, but did anybody read on ESPN.com rumors that a Miami-Seattle deal is in very serous talks? We’re talking about getting Ricky Davis and Jason Williams. Oh, God…am I really going to have to watch Ricky Davis and Jason Williams? Please, somebody tell me I’m not going to have to watch Ricky Davis and Jason Williams. Oh, God, oh, God, oh, God…” {Lester}
In all honesty, a few months of Ricky Davis and Jason Williams running around here would provide us with some short-term entertainment. Besides, I’m down for anything that rids the Seattle Supersonics of Wally Szczerbiak and Earl Watson.
After that’s accomplishment, it’s onto convincing Billy Knight to take on Luke Ridnour, Damien Wilkins, and Mouhamed Sene for the expiring contracts of Tyronn Lue, Lorenzen Wright, and Anthony Johnson. It, without a doubt, is time blow this roster up to smithereens and end the Ridnour/Watson era.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:13 am
Okay, since we can probably all agree that the Spurs are a model team, can I just ask one question: Would Greg Popovich trade for Ricky Davis and Jason Williams, even for contact purposes?
January 18th, 2008 at 1:14 am
If Jason Williams comes here, I’m going to renounce my wicked ways and immediately become the hugest Ridnour fan on the planet. I’ll become as deluded about him as some of you. ARgggggggghhhhhh, I’m irrational…
January 18th, 2008 at 1:20 am
Not statistics unfortunately. I should have pursued that field as my undergraduate major. William H. Gates Hall is the law school. You should come check this place out; it is one of UW’s crown jewels. The Gates family donated a fortune to get the law students out of the dungeon that was Condon Hall (which I think was around when you were at Montlake).
The IRS has sympathy from time to time. Remember the Cardinals employee that caught McGwire’s 62nd home run ball? The IRS Commissioner released a press statement stating that the Service would not seek to enforce the gift tax against that youngster for giving the ball back to McGwire even though it was pretty clear that the gift tax should apply.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:24 am
“Your honor I object. He has no statistics to back up that claim”
January 18th, 2008 at 1:24 am
“Okay, since we can probably all agree that the Spurs are a model team, can I just ask one question: Would Greg Popovich trade for Ricky Davis and Jason Williams, even for contact purposes?” {Lester}
In the same vein that a drug addict battles withdrawl symptoms during rehab, the Seatlle Supersonics need to be detoxified of its overpriced contracts—even if it’s at the expense of taking on Ricky Davis and Jason Williams for a few months.
January 18th, 2008 at 2:02 am
This has been a much better read than the shooting thread.
BTW, Menace, the Spurs bore Alex. He’s a Cavs man. If only they had a few more three point shooters…
January 18th, 2008 at 2:09 am
As an addendum to my gigantic post from earlier within this thread, I’d like to proclaim my stance against the Seattle Supersonics going after Samuel Dalembert. Basically, Dalembert is a mediocre pivotmen — as he’s awfully limited on offense and, moreover, is an inadequate man-to-man low-post defender — who’s way too overpaid for his run-of-the-mill production. Sans Dalembert’s ability to be a disruptive defensive presence from the weakside as a help defender, he doesn’t bring anything of real value to the table.
Instead of making a lateral move by shipping off Chris Wilcox and filler (e.g., Delonte West) to the Philadelphia 76ers for Dalembert, I’d rather have Sam Presti push to acquire Pau Gasol from the Memphis Grizzlies for Wilcox, Kurt Thomas’ expiring contract, a 2008 first-round draft pick (via the Phoenix Suns), and a 2010 first-round draft pick (via the Phoenix Suns) — as well as the draft rights of “The Three Musketeers” (i.e., Peter Fehse, Yotam Halperin, & Paccelis Morlende) — for obtaining a star frontcourt player such as Gasol would be a step in the right direction.
January 18th, 2008 at 5:12 am
Here’s a few trade proposals that are no-brainers to me.
TRADE #1
FROM DENVER & TO LOS ANGELES
PF Eduardo Najera ($4,952,380)
FROM LOS ANGELES & TO DENVER
PG Sam Cassell ($6,150,000)
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=591~138&teams=12~7&te=&cash=
Because Eduardo Najera has an expiring contract just like Sam Cassell, this trade proposal is a wash financially for the Los Angeles Clippers. Yet, aside from that small matter, Cassell would fill the Denver Nuggets’ need of a tall, savvy veteran at point guard — as neither Anthony Carter nor Chucky Atkins are the answer — to play alongside the diminutive Allen Iverson, who’s still a top-notch shooting guard even at 32 years of age, in the backcourt. Lastly, Cassell is supposedly on good terms with his former head coach, George Karl, with whom he had success while playing for the Milwaukee Bucks earlier this decade.
TRADE #2
FROM CLEVELAND & TO MINNESOTA
SF Ira Newble ($3,441,900)
SF Devin Brown ($1,200,000)
SG Shannon Brown ($1,044,120)
FROM MINNESOTA & TO CLEVELAND
SG Marko Jaric ($6,050,000)
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=1858~2992~601~387&teams=16~16~16~5&te=&cash=
Prior to consummating that trade proposal, Kevin McHale would have to release two over-the-hill stiffs, Theo Ratliff and Michael Doleac, from the Minnesota Timberwolves’ roster to make room for Ira Newble, Devin Brown, and Shannon Brown. Newble would be released subsequently after the deal, too, as the team would need to improve its depth at point guard by signing a playmaker from the NBDL (e.g., Andre Barrett) to a ten-day contract.
For the Cleveland Cavaliers, I’ve already explained why Marko Jaric would be a better fit than Mike Bibby — who’d come at the cost of Drew Gooden, the dumping of washed-up has-beens in Donyell Marshall and Eric Snow, and the absorption of Kenny Thomas’ exorbitant contract — as Jaric can defend bigger guards who’d trouble Daniel Gibson, while still being able to distribute the rock and effectively knock down three-pointers. Finally, Jaric’s arrival would knock Aleksander Pavlovic and Larry Hughes out of the starting lineup—which needs to occur in light of their ineptitude on offense.
TRADE #3
FROM INDIANA
PF Jermaine O’Neal ($19,728,000)
SG Kareem Rush ($826,046)
SF Stephen Graham ($770,610)
SG Andre Owens ($687,456)
FROM LOS ANGELES
PF Lamar Odom ($13,248,596)
C Kwame Brown ($9,075,000)
SF Vladimir Radmanovic ($5,632,200)
C Chris Mihm ($2,500,000)
PG Javaris Crittenton ($1,285,200)
FROM NEW JERSEY
PG Jason Kidd ($19,728,000)
PF Malik Allen ($964,636)
TO INDIANA
PF Lamar Odom ($13,248,596)
SF Vladimir Radmanovic ($5,632,200)
C Chris Mihm ($2,500,000)
TO LOS ANGELES
PF Jermaine O’Neal ($19,728,000)
PG Jason Kidd ($19,728,000)
PF Malik Allen ($964,636)
SG Andre Owens ($687,456)
TO NEW JERSEY
C Kwame Brown ($9,075,000)
PG Javaris Crittenton ($1,285,200)
SG Kareem Rush ($826,046)
SF Stephen Graham ($770,610)
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=10~429~981~3197~549~617~1016~2832~615~2863~1725&teams=13~13~17~17~11~11~11~17~13~13~17&te=&cash=
Regarding the Indiana Pacers, Lamar Odom should easily replace the often injured and slowly deteriorating Jermaine O’Neal at power forward. Moreover, Vladimir Radmanovic’s addition would give the Pacers an efficient spot-shooter from beyond the arc behind Danny Granger at small forward. Lastly, Chris Mihm has an expiring contract; meanwhile, though, he’d provide the Pacers with some extra froncourt depth.
For the Los Angeles Lakers, O’Neal and Jason Kidd — who’d play alongside center Andrew Bynum, shooting guard Kobe Bryant, and off guard Derek Fisher in the starting lineup — would solidify the ballclub for a run at the 2008 NBA Championship. At the point forward position within the triangle offense, the 6′4″ tall Kidd would be backed up by Luke Walton — who’s got a lot of experience in the system — thus, it should be a smooth transition for him. O’Neal, of course, would be an enormous upgrade over Lamar Odom at the weakside elbow; his passing skills and smooth mid-range jumper would be huge assets.
Due to Bynum’s recent injury, however, the Lakers would be hampered by a thin frontline; therefore, the signing of the offensively versatile Chris Webber — who’s currently wasting away on the scrap heap — to a minimum-level contract throughout the season’s remainder would be just the ticket. Along with possibly providing the Lakers with a missing piece to the puzzle, it’d give Webber — who’d start at center while Bynum sat out with his sprained left knee and, in turn, would become a reserve power forward once the youngster returned to the court — a chance to shed the loser label that’s plagued him during his entire career.
As it concerns the New Jersey Nets, Kwame Brown’s expiring contract and a young, up-’n'-coming prospect at point guard in Javaris Crittenton — as well as some depth at the wing positions with Stephen Graham and Kareem Rush — should be enough of a return for Rod Thorn to part with Kidd. Indeed, it’s time for both the Nets and Kidd to move on toward the future.
January 18th, 2008 at 7:08 am
“Look, Elton Brand isn’t coming here under any circumstances—”
“Gasol is a reportedly attainable asset who’d fit in perfectly alongside Nick Collison along the frontline. Gasol, who’s contract lasts through the 2010-2011 season, is cost-efficient for what a player of his caliber would provide to the Seattle Supersonics.”
Wow, that is the first time I think I have ever or WILL ever agree with AK!!!(cue Twilight Zone music….and….cut twilight zone music)
Are you guys seriously that concerned about Ricky Davis and White Chocolate? Hmmmm interesting…well….me personally, I like the idea. Especially considering how much cap space it gives us.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:18 am
AK:
FROM NEW JERSEY
PG Jason Kidd ($19,728,000)
PF Malik Allen ($964,636)
TO NEW JERSEY
C Kwame Brown ($9,075,000)
PG Javaris Crittenton ($1,285,200)
SG Kareem Rush ($826,046)
SF Stephen Graham ($770,610)
Even with Kidd reportedly on the outs with the Nets, no I way I let this happen if I’m a NJ fan, seriously 20-man 3-team trades really aren’t as common as you post them, AK. And this is one of those reasons.
And all those Arenas haters: 8-game sample size?!?!?! are you kidding me?!?!?! Everyone is actually going to proclaim conclusively that because the wizards had a rough first 8 games then arenas goes down with an injury that THAT is enough evidence to say “he makes the team worse”? If he’s not your cup of tea then fine, thats reasonable, but to say that 8 games in this league shows how a guy affects his team is ridiculous.
BTW, would love Gasol, but seeing as how he’d want max$$, I just want to make sure he’s recovered well from injury and can play solidly from here on out. Don’t hate Dalembert either but we’d prolly have to pay him more than he’s worth also. Heres to hoping the SOMETHING happens.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:11 am
“Even with Kidd reportedly on the outs with the Nets, no I way I let this happen if I’m a NJ fan, seriously 20-man 3-team trades really aren’t as common as you post them, AK. And this is one of those reasons.” {dave}
Notwithstanding your valid point, I’d like to emphasize that it’s actually a three-team trade proposal that includes just eleven players.
Anyhow, if Rod Thorn wants to retool the New Jersey Nets rather than totally rebuild the team, then he could hypothetically get Isiah Thomas to involve the New York Knicks in it. The following four-team trade is an enlarged version of my original one; however, this variation has Zach Randolph joining the Nets, while Kwame Brown would leave Los Angeles for “The Big Apple.”
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=10~429~981~3197~549~617~1016~2832~615~2863~1725~1017&teams=13~13~18~17~11~11~11~17~13~13~17~17&te=&cash=
Admittedly, that’s a more realistic deal.
“BTW, would love Gasol, but seeing as how he’d want max$$, I just want to make sure he’s recovered well from injury and can play solidly from here on out.” {dave}
You mistook Pau Gasol for Elton Brand. As it is, Brand was the one who tore his Achilles tendon. Anyway, Brand isn’t coming here for several reasons. I, therefore, would much rather have Sam Presti gear his attention toward acquiring Gasol — who’s a well-rounded interior player on both offense and defense with a reasonable contract that lasts through the 2010-2011 season — so the Seattle Supersonics should definitely make a run at him.
“Wow, that is the first time I think I have ever or WILL ever agree with AK!!!(cue Twilight Zone music….and….cut twilight zone music)” {Joshu@}
According to the ol’ sayin’, “there’s a first time for everything.”
January 18th, 2008 at 10:25 am
I can’t believe anybody would want Pau Gasol on this team. I’d rather have Derrick Rose or a veteran PG, a good young C, and some quality veterans off the bench.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Courtsense-
we still COULD acquire rose in the draft, nothing changes there. As far as Gasol, why pass up on a guy with 3+ SOLID years left in the tank (he’s 27, so beats Brand in that respect), this season his numbers are down and he’s getting: 18.9 pts, 8.7 boards, and 1.5 blocks while alsot shooting 82% on FTs (a guy that can get to the line).
As for injuries, AK, your right Pau didn’t ahve anything major recently (thought he did,m but turns out all I could get was this “The Grizzlies still were without 7-footer Pau Gasol, who missed his third game with a jammed right big toe.” not really that bad, lol. So yeah I’d take Gasol although he’s right at the maximum age for a developing kid like durant. Anyone over 27 can be good for team leadership but down the road they won’t be the “answer” this team needs.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:24 am
Gasol is a dog - any stats he puts up are fool’s gold.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
- LOL…I think the Sonics recent play has caused a few of us here to get a little testy…all pretty amusing though.
- I wonder what it would be like to have a blog where all you talk about is how good the team is…
January 18th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
“Gasol is a dog - any stats he puts up are fool’s gold.”
I guess I can see your point courtsense, but at the same time…we have Swifty, Petro, and Sene. So, technically that would be an upgrade. And as was previously mentioned, we may very well still get Rose.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Yeah, i’d take the foo’s gold over the wad of clay. At least it looks pretty.
January 18th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
AK, that trade you proposed for Gasol might make some sense. I had mentioned in a previous post that Gasol is a player that is available and the Sonics should consider trading for.
I actually like the idea of a collison/Gasol combination. I believe Collison is best when he’s playing alongside another big that has some scoring ability. That way Collison can focus on his strengths, which are rebounding and defense. The Wilcox/Collison duo has a decent balance of scoring/defense, but there isn’t much size out on that floor. Gasol has a nice offensive game and at 7-feet, he gives the Sonics some length out on the court.
I’m actually a Wilcox fan, but I think Gasol would be a better fit to play alongside Collison. The other option might be to include Collison in the trade, instead of Wilcox, but I’m not sure if that would work salary wise. Also, you could make a case that a Wilcox/Gasol combination wouldn’t provide much of a defensive presence, although offensively it could be very successful.
January 18th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
AK, that trade you proposed for Gasol might make some sense. I had mentioned in a previous post that Gasol is a player that is available and the Sonics should consider trading for.
I actually like the idea of a collison/Gasol combination. I believe Collison is best when he’s playing alongside another big that has some scoring ability. That way Collison can focus on his strengths, which are rebounding and defense. The Wilcox/Collison duo has a decent balance of scoring/defense, but there isn’t much size out on that floor. Gasol has a nice offensive game and at 7-feet, he gives the Sonics some length out on the court.
I’m actually a Wilcox fan, but I think Gasol would be a better fit to play alongside Collison. The other option might be to include Collison in the trade, instead of Wilcox, but I’m not sure if that would work salary wise. Also, you could make a case that a Wilcox/Gasol combination wouldn’t provide much of a defensive presence, although offensively it could be very successful.
March 26th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
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Good post!