Today’s thread…
Posted on Friday, January 18th, 2008 at 9:48 am by Brian Robinson
How can I add to Jim Brunner’s column today…
Buy tickets. We’re worthless. You should love us. Nobody loves us…
At least the Sonics are consistent in their inconsistency.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:52 am
I hope so that Sonics will finally beat the Grizzlies….
January 18th, 2008 at 10:13 am
Damn I just love this hypothetical trade with the the Heat.
Can’t see that happening though…
January 18th, 2008 at 10:14 am
I wish Brian would elaborate a little more in this thread. I would like to know your thoughts on this Brian!!!
January 18th, 2008 at 10:16 am
How about the new Ridnour rumor to the Knicks which would bring back Marbury? Just shoot me now if that goes down.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Dick, there’s no way the Ridnour to NY deal would bring back Marbury. The contracts aren’t even close without it turning into a blockbuster, multi-player deal: Marbury is due $22mil next year, Ridnour only $13mil over the next 2 years. More likely, we’d be looking at some combination of Malik Rose, Renaldo Balkman, Fred Jones, expiring contracts - and maybe another player going out with Luke.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Any Thoughts?
How is the proposed Huskey Stadium upgrade going to affect any chance of a Key Arena Remodel or new world class arena in the area?
January 18th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Those argument seem irrelevant to me in terms of what the lease says. It is interesting that they are not arguing about the merits of the lease - which looks like a loosing argument for the Sonics.
On the basketball front. Mo Sene was 6-6 and scored 14 points to up his FG% to 62%. He also grabbed 13 or so rebounds in 24 mintues. He had 3 blocks. He was able to get his second assist in 9 games. The bad news was he had 6 PF - his worst showing by far on that front.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:27 am
The New York Knicks are worthless trading partners. Except for David Lee and Renaldo Balkman, Isiah Thomas has nothing of value to offer the Seattle Supersonics; thus, Sam Presti should ignore any phone calls he receives from the worst front office executive in NBA history. On a similar note, Fred Jones has the largest expiring contract on the Knicks at just $3,300,000; that exemplifies Thomas’ fiscal imprudency.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Finally figured out who beantown is……
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgx24-3uoCQ&feature=related
January 18th, 2008 at 10:38 am
Wow - beantown has really let himself go since he retired…
January 18th, 2008 at 10:39 am
For the New York Knicks, here’s a surprisingly simple way that Isiah Thomas can fix the team’s issues at point guard—which is mostly due to Stephon Marbury’s season-ending injry.
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=1715~817~2997~1718&teams=18~18~29~29&te=&cash=
As a short-term solution, Damon Stoudamire is a decent option. Regarding the Memphis Grizzlies, picking up Fred Jones’ expiring contract — along with Mardy Collins, who’s a serviceable third-string combo guard — is an adequate return for the aging Stoudamire.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:42 am
Here’s a link to more info on Brian comments.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sonics/2004131860_sonics18m.html
January 18th, 2008 at 10:43 am
“Damn I just love this hypothetical trade with the the Heat.
Can’t see that happening though…”
Yeah, that one would be really good for us.
Though it might just make too much sense and that’s why it’s probably not happening.
“How about the new Ridnour rumor to the Knicks which would bring back Marbury? Just shoot me now if that goes down”
Got a link for this one, Dick?
We’d surely have to part ways with Wally as well, just to make the numbers work.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:44 am
I love Rodney Fort’s comment:
“It would seem that the value of the Sonics is a ‘contingent’ value — contingent on the purposes of the Sonics ownership,” Fort said in an e-mail. “On the one hand, when the Sonics are trying to get the public to pitch in on a new arena, they are worth tens of millions to the Seattle area. On the other hand, when they are trying to beat their KeyArena lease, they are worth nothing to the Seattle area.”
That’s Clay-Clay for ya!!
January 18th, 2008 at 10:44 am
I would hold out unless the Knicks trade involved Jerome James. He’s quality.
I probably wouldn’t trade with the Knicks outside of David Lee without a gun to my head.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:45 am
So, Brian - what’s all this legal wrangling really mean? Has the situation changed or improved in terms of keeping the team in Seattle for the longterm? Where’s the City’s plan? Where are the local buyers? What’s the dealio?
January 18th, 2008 at 10:46 am
Brian can’t discuss things now…those of us involved in the legal disputes need to let the lawyers do their jobs and refrain from putting ourselves in positions where our lack of legal experience might lead to saying something that could impact the cases.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:50 am
Good point brought up about Husky Stadium. I am all for improving sports in the area as I believe it is good for everyone. However, the Huskies have a very wealthy alumni club that could pay for the remodel. Also Husky stadium is for what 8 games a year while a new arena would have 40+ as well as concerts, etc. I don’t like the timing of seeking $150 mil from the legislators. We are all sports fans and out of respect for what the Sonics are trying to do, they should have waited a year or so to ask for this money. I can guarantee that they will get their money and then there will not be any money left for a basketball arena. This will even make CHOPP happy.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:54 am
“Brian can’t discuss things now…those of us involved in the legal disputes need to let the lawyers do their jobs and refrain from putting ourselves in positions where our lack of legal experience might lead to saying something that could impact the cases.”[pheeshy]
I wish somebody had told Nick Lic(balls)ata that before he spoke to freakin Sports Illustrated.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:56 am
AK -
I agree with you about doing the Miami deal and moving Watson and Wally in exchange for JWilliams, RDavis, and DWright.
I also agree with your Atlanta trade and moving Ridnour and a stiff for the expiring contracts of TLue, LWright, and AJohnson.
The next question for you is, then what? What would you do with all that cap space? By my count, you’d only be left with
Durant, Green, Petro, Collison, and Wilcox from the current roster.
What free agents would you target? I know you like Childress, as do I. You’re not a fan of Igoudala, but I might look at him. Presti would still have the two 1st round picks and four 2nd round picks, so you’d get some depth out of that. But you’d need a lot of veterans…
January 18th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Among the restricted FAs I love Childress and Calderon. I Would also probably seriously look at Ben Gordon even if I’m not a huge fan of his game.
I like Maggette too.
I don’t think talking about Brand, Arenas and Co is realistic. They are probably not interested in joining a rebuilding team and a rebuilding team is probably not really interested in them.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:03 am
I agree courtsense, there needs to be a plan beyond just clearing cap space. Specific players need to be targeted - and be realistic as well.
My primary problem with AK’s trades is getting rid of Sene. Don’t do it. The rest, no problem.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:06 am
Childress and Calderon. Those guys are good, but are they realistic? We could sell Seattle as like an international city to Calderon.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:06 am
yeah screw that guy nick licata
January 18th, 2008 at 11:12 am
Nick Licata was only speaking for himself, and not for the City of Seattle.
Much the same way Aubrey McLendon was not speaking on behalf of the Sonics ownership group.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:17 am
the timing of this husky stadium renovation is terrible. how old is that stadium, and why do they need to ask for money this month rather than one year from now? there’s a court battle raging people, we don’t need to fuel the anti sonics sentiment in the state legislature!
on that note i’m going to write a check to the UW for $150 million dollars and tell them not to cash it until 2015. if anyone asks i’m an internet billionaire who just moved to town from silicon valley…
January 18th, 2008 at 11:19 am
http://www.sonicscentral.com/bboard/viewtopic.php?t=6393
The error on this court information was mine. I missunderstood. I thought that they had made their presentations and were awaiting a ruling by the 16th. I now understand that both sides had presented a summary argument and final submittal was due on the 16th.
I know that I am noticably absent from these forums and the media of late. I hope that people understand that I will be a participant in two seperate legal actions. Once my role in these things became more set in stone it seems to be the proper thing to do to limit public commentary to ensure that nothing I say can be misinterpreted and/or used against me in court.
There have been several actions that I expected, had solid insight into, and have not necessarily materialized in a public fashion. You read the article in which it was confirmed that the mayor, governor, and members of legislature(including Chopp) had met to discuss the arena proposal. Somewhere along the way a decision has been made to present the plan internally, float it through all the people it has to be floated to, and keep things very quiet. I don’t know that I agree with this strategy, but I can’t say that they are without basis at all. Regardless I certainly do not wish to undermine it in any way. It’s the only deal going on and I’m supposed to be an ally, not a critic or an ego to get in the way. As such I’m trying to be respectful of the players in this thing
Don’t misread my current or future silence on this thing.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:22 am
“How about the new Ridnour rumor to the Knicks which would bring back Marbury? Just shoot me now if that goes down. ”
I thought everyone on Isiah’s roster was untouchable according to him.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:26 am
My current guess on what we do before the trading deadline.
Kurt Thomas, Johan Petro and a second round pick to the Lakers for Kwame Brown, Sasha Vujacic, a first and a future second.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:33 am
- I find it shocking that the NBA allowed the team to use this legal defense…doesn’t this hurt the chance of any NBA geting public funding going forward? It seems like the NBA is almost in a no-win situation with this case.
If they win…then a precedent (no economic impact) is going to be set for every other city to fall back on
If they lose…then they are possibly sitting in a lame duck market for 3 more years.
- I said over on the message boards…if you are going to support a public subsidy for the Sonics you need to do the same thing for Husky stadium. Can’t counter their argument because it is more or less the same as the Sonics. This is one reason why I have been so disappointed in the Mariners and Seahawks fans who haven’t supported this cause…this can’t be a case of “we got ours”…
January 18th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Scott Says:
“Kurt Thomas, Johan Petro and a second round pick to the Lakers for Kwame Brown, Sasha Vujacic, a first and a future second.”
Throw in Turiaf and maybe West or another small contract from our side to balance it out and it’s a deal.
(And thanks for the heads-up, Brian.)
January 18th, 2008 at 11:35 am
The lower bowl of Husky Stadium was built in 1920. That makes it 87 years old.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Husky_Stadium
KeyArena’s seating bowl, and everyting else except the roof trusses, was built in 1995, which makes it about 13 years old.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KeyArena
January 18th, 2008 at 11:37 am
I thought everyone on Isiah’s roster was untouchable according to him.
- Well isn’t that true? I just think he was taken out of context…what he meant is that no one would want to touch anyone on that roster…
January 18th, 2008 at 11:38 am
“Throw in Turiaf and maybe West or another small contract from our side to balance it out and it’s a deal.”
Balance it out?
What do you mean. We get an upgrade from a late second round pick to a mid to late first rounder and deal of nothing that’s going to be here past this season.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:38 am
I would want Jav. Crittendon in the deal with the lakers.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Kurt Thomas, Johan Petro and a second round pick to the Lakers for Kwame Brown, Sasha Vujacic, a first and a future second.
- That trade makes some sense…I think Gelle would be a good player on that team as well. In way we can swing it so Vlade can come back here and play some 4 for us…?
January 18th, 2008 at 11:44 am
I meant by adding Turiaf from their side, we might need to balance out the salaries by including an extra (cheap) player from our side.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:45 am
Thanks for responding Brian. If it all works out in the end then your silence is far worth it. I can see your point of view as public comments by all players are being brought into play. The City is not saying much and yet Clay’s side seems to be saying a lot which is putting their foots in their mouths. This is great.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:52 am
“Kurt Thomas, Johan Petro and a second round pick to the Lakers for Kwame Brown, Sasha Vujacic, a first and a future second.” {Scott}
Why would the Los Angeles Lakers make a lateral move by essentially trading Kwame Brown to the Seattle Supersonics for Kurt Thomas — who doesn’t exactly fit in the pass heavy triangle offense, as he’s more of a pick-’n'-pop/screen-’n'-roll type player — while also giving up a future first-round draft pick?
Also, Aleksander Vujacic — who’s hairstyle somewhat mirrors mine — became a useful backup for Kobe Bryant at shooting guard after Maurice Evans was dealt to the Orlando Magic; thus, there’s point in Mitch Kupchak flipping “Sasha” for a scrub like Johan Petro.
The next question for you is, then what? What would you do with all that cap space? By my count, you’d only be left with
Durant, Green, Petro, Collison, and Wilcox from the current roster.
“What free agents would you target? I know you like Childress, as do I. You’re not a fan of Igoudala, but I might look at him. Presti would still have the two 1st round picks and four 2nd round picks, so you’d get some depth out of that. But you’d need a lot of veterans…” {courtsense}
If the Supersonics somehow gain a bit of salary cap flexibility during the next few weeks, then Josh Childress should be the top target of Sam Presti’s during the upcoming off-season. Now, with regards to a few other guys who’ll soon become restricted free-agents, I expect that Jose Calderon will re-sign with the Toronto Raptors, Andre Iguodala will most likely command a higher salary than his actual worth, and Ben Gordon’s skill set — along with his small stature for a shooting guard and gunner mentality — wouldn’t mesh too well alongside Kevin Durant.
Lastly, I really think that Pau Gasol — who’s able to man both the low-post and high-post on offense, while also holding his own on the defensive end — would make an immediate impact on this team. Although it’s questionable about whether or not Chris Wallace would trade Gasol to the Supersonics for Thomas, Chris Wilcox, a 2008 first-round draft pick (via the Phoenix Suns), and a 2010 first-round draft pick (via the Phoenix Suns), it’s a transaction that could quickly solve the Supersonics’ long-standing frontcourt issues.
That’s just my opinion, though.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
For whatever it’s worth to y’all, Kwame Brown will most likely be moved in a deal that nets the Los Angeles Lakers Jermaine O’Neal and/or Jason Kidd. Unlike Kurt Thomas, O’Neal and Kidd are exceptional players whose inherent talents are definitely tailor-made for the triangle offense.
Anyway, as much as I respect Thomas for his contributions with the Seattle Supersonics thus far this season, a lot of people here are overvaluing his worth on the trade market. If Sam Presti can’t combine Thomas with Chris Wilcox to net a star pivotman, then it’s best to just let him leave as an unrestricted free-agent after this season.
Again, Thomas will probably sign a one-year, minimum-level contract with the Dallas Mavericks — who are his hometown team — during the upcoming off-season. Besides, Dirk Nowitzki could use Thomas as his backup at power forward—especially in lieu of the done for Juwan Howard.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
psheehy Says:
Brian can’t discuss things now…those of us involved in the legal disputes need to let the lawyers do their jobs and refrain from putting ourselves in positions where our lack of legal experience might lead to saying something that could impact the cases.
Is there anyone on the site who isn’t legally involved that can act as a go-between?
Silvio Says:
Got a link for this one, Dick?
We’d surely have to part ways with Wally as well, just to make the numbers work.
Hoopshype (NY Daily News) & the Times blog. I definitely think Z and/or Thomas would be involved. I’ve had a horrible premonition that Marbury would eventually end up a Sonic ever since the initial GP trade rumors back in the day. This one scares me. It fits the whole “prepare cap space for ’09” deal. However, it looks like there’s nothing to it, just a writer’s roster masturbation fantasy, trying to stir up his blog.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
“I probably wouldn’t trade with the Knicks outside of David Lee without a gun to my head”
I would add Balkman to that list, great lockdown defender.
As far as cap space goes. I think the best thing for this team COULD be to have multiple point hybrids…i.e. point forwards in Durant and Green, and a point shooting guard like Igoudala. But I could be way off with that. Just something to play with. Not saying that is my set in stone opinion.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
“I meant by adding Turiaf from their side, we might need to balance out the salaries by including an extra (cheap) player from our side.”
Turiaf is not leaving them with Bynum being out for the next couple months. If we needed more value I’d think they’d be more inclined to add another pick before they’d add Rony.
Someone mentioned Crittenton, I don’t think they add him, but I’d take him over any of our PG’s now.
Lakers won’t be interested in more matching of salary, they’ll want us to take back 1.35 million more as it will save them 5.2 million bucks.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
“This is one reason why I have been so disappointed in the Mariners and Seahawks fans who haven’t supported this cause…this can’t be a case of “we got ours”… ”
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a “we got ours” mentality.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Thanks for clearing that up Alex. You must be getting tired of “getting yours” from Menace all the time.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Are the briefs for the city and the Sonics available? Legal reporting by sports writers is sometimes questionable.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Kwame Brown? LMAO, did you watch the Lakers/Suns game last night? Johan plays like an allstar compared to him.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
No problem balloholic. I’m glad that you recognize that Americans are typically guided by the principle of self-interest.
Brian, is the city’s stance that it would be receptive to the idea of mediation if Clay were to consider a reconstruction of Key Arena new? Though it is not the same thing as arbitration, implicit in the concept of mediation is that some common ground can be reached. I don’t see how any common ground can be reached between these two parties.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
I think mediation is the only way to go if Clay is willing to talk about KeyArena. If they could come up with a romodel plan and cut them a break on the rest of the lease it would be great. The other concern would be where do the Sonics play during rentovation and my answer would be the same place they played in 1995 when the remodel happened and that is the Tacoma Dome. This is jumping way ahead but it would be nice to be discussing these issues rather than lawsuits and relocations.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
“Kwame Brown? LMAO, did you watch the Lakers/Suns game last night? Johan plays like an allstar compared to him.”
You’re not making hte deal to get better this year, in fact you probably lose 5 more games not having Kurt Thomas. however you’d get a look at Sasha (then his contract is off the books while Johan’s stays on another year) you’d pick up a draft pick and defer one of your seconds to a later year.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
“The other concern would be where do the Sonics play during rentovation and my answer would be the same place they played in 1995 when the remodel happened and that is the Tacoma Dome.”
They could probably fit all the fans comfortably in the practice facility… less of a commute that way.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Those two-faced bastards from OKC! I am shocked, shocked I say, to find such legal hypocracy and intelectuall inconsistance in the middle of a lawsuit!
January 18th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Anyway, as much as I respect Thomas for his contributions with the Seattle Supersonics thus far this season, a lot of people here are overvaluing his worth on the trade market. If Sam Presti can’t combine Thomas with Chris Wilcox to net a star pivotman, then it’s best to just let him leave as an unrestricted free-agent after this season.
- Being that Thomas is signfiicantly better than Kwame Brown (regardless of your comments that he would some how not fit in the offense)…why wouldn’t the Lakers make that trade? Sure, they might get J’O or J’K…but if those longshots don’t end up happening then it makes much more sense for them to go into the playoffs with Thomas than Brown…
No problem balloholic. I’m glad that you recognize that Americans are typically guided by the principle of self-interest.
- Hmm…it amazes me how dumb you can be…just because it is typical behavior doesn’t mean that it is OK to believe an argument can some how be true from one group (Sonics) and untrue for another group (Huskies). Many, many people cheat on their significant other…this doesn’t make it OK.
If you’d rather be a hypocrite then really you are no better than Chris Van Dyk and his CMIT groups. Be very proud of that I guess…
January 18th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
The Lakers trade would be one of those “get something from nothing” situations if Seattle could score the Lakers first round pick( although it could be a mid twenties selection). Let’s face it, this season is a lame duck one from the standpoint that everyone knows the wins aren’t going to happen but rather it’s about setting the table for next year and beyond.
So as much as yes, Kurt Thomas is one of perhaps two players on the entire roster that has any sort of sense as how to properly play the game, his status with the club beyond this season has always been one of moving on to a playoff caliber team of his choosing with a MLE contract.
The player I would like to see coming back from Los Angeles is Trevor Ariza, a combo shooting guard/small forward that can play good defense. As far as taking both Brown and Vujacic, I could live with both of them sitting on the bench.
January 18th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
As far as the Knicks and Heat rumors goes, I would probably take the Heat deal for nothing more than to relieve some salary and free up a spot to see what Jeff Green could do as the starter.
Dick, I read hoopshype regularily and missed the Knicks/Sonics rumor. It would take alot of convincing for me to believe that Sam Presti would consider taking Marbury. I do though recall Presti commenting that Seattle could be the go between in a three way trade, using their trade excemptions to make two other teams deals work. If Marbury were involved going to another team and if it meant taking on a touch more expiring salary, such as Malik Rose, in order to secure the Knicks first round pick, then by all means fire away and offer up one of the pointguards and the excemptions.
As for free agency, yes, I see Toronto doing everything they can to re-sign Calderon. And it’s a known fact that Calderon and Jorge Garbajosa are best firends, therefore making it attractive for Calderon to re-sign. But Josh Smith is another story. I would love to see him in a Sonics jersey, and since Atlanta has the positions he plays pretty much covered, they could be open to a sign and trade.
January 18th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
One thing I will say about this little “community of bloggers”…we may have our strong personalities and we may have our share of arguments.
However, nothing makes my head hurt worse then trying to read through the Seattle Times Husky Football/Basketball blogs…that 99% of those people are associated with either UW/WSU/UofO depressess me greatly…
January 18th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Both Miami and Knicks rumors are unattractive IMO.
I think Marburary is as close to being a cancer as Nene’s … wait, let’s not go that low.. sorry Nene.
But for real, The dude has spent how many years in the NBA now? And how many times have we seen his absence leads to the team’s success. No doubt he will be an upgrade over our point guards, but I’m not sure if I want his presence around KD, Green, and our N.1 pick next year.
and just when you think you can’t get any worse.
Here comes RICKY DAVIS!!!!! Sweet, exactly what we need.
I will do that Miami trade if they take Davis off the table.
January 18th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
lol, if you guys complain about Earl and Delonte hogging the ball just watch if Starbury ever came here… hell maybe he can give fans some of his “affordable steve n’ barry” sneakers to get more people to show, his ego is a thing to watch. Any possible way Presti could include sending Damien to Miami in that trade? He’ll be closer to Atlanta that way.
January 18th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-29-71/Perspective-from-Oklahoma-City.html
I love to see OKC fans tell the truth about the situation!
January 18th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Here’s the link to the Marbury / Ridnour rumor.
http://tinyurl.com/2hhh7n
January 18th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
alexchan
of course there is something wrong w/ours mentality.
January 18th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
GP are you wit me..
Luckily Ricky davis only has a few months to corrupt durant and green..
January 18th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Just when I thought it wasn’t possible, I hate Clay Bennett more than yesterday. He is the biggest piece of sh*t walking. His status in this region is so terrible if he walked down to the seats at a Sonics game, somebody would mimimum beat the living crap out of him. And deservedly so.
January 18th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
“”"…one reason why I have been so disappointed in the Mariners and Seahawks fans who haven’t supported this cause…this can’t be a case of “we got ours”…”"”
THIS IS EXACTLY HOW I FEEL. Seahawks and Mariners fans drive me absolutely crazy. They are so shortsighted and ignorant about all this. I don’t even know what to say anymore about the local political scene. It is downright stupid.
January 18th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
The trade with Miami might make some sense. The expiring contracst of Davis and Williams is fairly attractive to a team in rebuilding mode. Plus, it’s not as if Wally Z, or Watson are going to be any long term part of the future, anyway. That being said, the Sonics haven’t really had a ton of success acquiring big name free-agents in the past. There really is no guarantee that getting all these expiring contracts is going to lead to the signing of any quality free-agents. For that reason, the sticking point for me would be having Dorell Wright included in the deal. He’s a player that has some talent and could be a part of the future with this team. I like the idea of trading for expiring contract, but getting some young talent, or a draft pick, included in the deal would be preferred.
January 18th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
The trade with Miami might make some sense. The expiring contracst of Davis and Williams is fairly attractive to a team in rebuilding mode. Plus, it’s not as if Wally Z, or Watson are going to be any long term part of the future, anyway. That being said, the Sonics haven’t really had a ton of success acquiring big name free-agents in the past. There really is no guarantee that getting all these expiring contracts is going to lead to the signing of any quality free-agents. For that reason, the sticking point for me would be having Dorell Wright included in the deal. He’s a player that has some talent and could be a part of the future with this team. I like the idea of trading for expiring contract, but getting some young talent, or a draft pick, included in the deal would be preferred.
January 18th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Nobody said anything about Marbury coming here in a trade. That’s not happening. The reference was that Ridnour would replace Marbury at PG - not be traded for Marbury.
January 18th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
I’d beat the shit out of Clay Bennett even if it meant taking a swing at his children and grandma just to get to him
January 18th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
I’m with you guys on the lack of support from Seahawks/Mariners fans. I mentioned it long ago and was told “wait until the Hawks season is over and then they will kick in”. Well they haven’t, aren’t, won’t get involved to save the Sonics.
All I have to say is turnabout is fair play. The next time (and there will be a next time) one of those teams is looking for something from the public I will be working my ass off to destroy their dreams too.
January 18th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
“but I’m not sure if I want his [Marbury's] presence around KD, Green, and our N.1 pick next year.
and just when you think you can’t get any worse.
Here comes RICKY DAVIS!!!!! Sweet, exactly what we need.”
KD and Jeff Green are in grave danger of being invited over grandma’s house and having their cheek’s pinched: “Oh, such sweet boys!”
The tacit threat that they might bring their univited friend, “Ricky,” by might spare them the indignity.
January 18th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
So, a cap space trade for Ridnour? Fine, but there are likely a few other teams that could use a pg that might offer better. This team will have cap room within two years, and as everybody has or will mention, the Sonics do not draw max free agents. Those guys just don’t move unless you are over paying (sweet lew) to get somebody.
This team has draft picks, Thomas’ ending contract this year and Wally the next.
It isn’t as if the team will be worse if they don’t make the Miami trade.
January 18th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Assuming the Lakers actually have interest in Thomas, how about this trade idea:
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=846~1027~981~3002~549&teams=13~13~25~25~25&te=&cash=
Might have to add a draft pick (2nd rounder or Phx late 1st) to get them to part with Farmar, but I actually think this trade makes sense for both teams. Farmar has shown lots of promise to possibly become a good starting PG and is still very young. However, LA also has Crittenton who is equally talented so they might be willing to trade one of them. In the meantime, it wouldn’t hurt to have Watson around as a more experienced back up to Fisher if they’re planning on making a playoff run. Lastly, if they can’t land a big name before the deadline, bringing in a couple veterans in Thomas and Wtason should at leas t placate Kobe who wants to win now. Thoughts?
January 18th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
I’m not a huge Husky fan, but bcuz of family I’ve actually been to 2 Rose Bowls, and a Sun Bowl. Obviously, I used to root for them, but I don’t have any allegiance to them except that they’re a local team. Now if their little stadium renovation comes at the expense of the Sonics, I think it would be impossible for me to ever root for them in any way shape or form again in the future. Softy, and Hugh Millen could add me to that list of 100,000 coug fans in the area(who they mentioned today) that might also have a problem with it(at that point). That said if their was a way to combine the funding for both teams, so that the tax money goes towards both, then I’d obviously be more for it. I haven’t heard anything about though, so I assume that it won’t be possible for whatever reason…
January 18th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
I was thinking last night that Thomas would be a good fit with LA being that they’re pretty much in the thick of things this year…
January 18th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
So is there not going to be a game thread for the Grizzlies today? If the Supes don’t get this one…
January 18th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
I do not see why it would not be possible. The oddity is that the Wa Resaurant Association has already come out in support of extending the current tax at their businesses in support of keeping the Sonics here. The Sonics draw people downtown. Husky Stadium draws people to
… The U Village?
I don’t know, I would like to hear from them on this.
BTW, if they can dig up $150 million dollars for the stadium, how about the state match that with money going to higher education, I am a Husky student, a 150 mil remodel is good enough for me, and what happened with the remodel they did not too long ago to upgrade and cover half of the stands, it isn’t as if the stadium has not been touched since 1928 (or 1964). So goes the arguments against the arena, same criteria should apply to the stadium, this is the “having it both ways” thread, I guess.
January 18th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
ridnour on the court, good things are gonna happen. loved his circus shot. this is our best 5 on the court atm
January 18th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
these guys have no commitment to defense whatsoever, it’s embarrassing
January 18th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
I’m getting used to watching games with low attendance, but I don’t think I’ve seen anything like this.
They panned back and the entire upper deck was empty. Lower deck is one-third full (no exageration). Must be at one-sixth capacity.
Less than when I’ve been at the Storm games.
January 18th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
I’ve lost count of how many times this season Durant has taken a 20-footer and then allowed his man to cherry-pick for an easy layup.
The Sonics are showing no intensity or pride whatsoever on the defensive end of the floor.
On a positive note, I love me some Mike Miller and Kyle Lowry.
January 18th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
courtsense Says:
Nobody said anything about Marbury coming here in a trade. That’s not happening. The reference was that Ridnour would replace Marbury at PG - not be traded for Marbury.
Who cares? It was all writer speculation bullshit in the first place. It means absolutely nothing. It’s the same thing we do in here every day.
January 18th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Dick Tate said:
“It’s the same thing we do in here every day.”
True. We might as well be commenting on AK’s latest proposal as Chris Sheridan’s, or whomever wrote that in this first place.
January 18th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
I’m getting used to watching games with low attendance, but I don’t think I’ve seen anything like this.
They panned back and the entire upper deck was empty. Lower deck is one-third full (no exageration). Must be at one-sixth capacity.
That’s odd. I thought Durant was supposedly a top draw.
January 18th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
A guy on a ten-day contract has outplayed every Sonic in this first half. These guys should be absolutely embarrassed with their effort.
January 18th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
this is a shame…
January 18th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
Stellar end to the half. Sometimes the Sonics remind me of the Keystone Cops.
January 18th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Wow this is embarassing.
Guess I’ll just go watch Cloverfield instead of this travesty of a basketball game.
January 18th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Sonics should step it up and don’t get pushed around by the Grizzles. That guy on the ten-day contract is proving to be worth the value.
January 18th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
For a team that’s lost 8 in a row, the Sonics sure don’t seem to have any sense of urgency out there…looking at the schedule, it’s easy to see this streak reaching 12 or 13 losses in a row.
Again, I have to ask if this team has quit on their coach, or are the players really that bad, or is the “system” itself that bad? (I use the term “system” in the loosest possible sense.)
January 18th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
That fool’s gold is kicking our ass.
January 18th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Dick Tate Says:
“That fool’s gold is kicking our ass.”
I still don’t like him. Him kicking our ass isn’t saying much.
January 18th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
the coach is not trying to win games, so why should they?
There is only so much roster evaluation you can do if you are not trying to win.
Let us take a lesson from the Griz, Hubie platooned sets of 5 guys, then he mixed the players and again platooned 5 player sets of guys. All the while Hubie did this he was intent on evaluating a set that could win, that was the goal, can your 5 guys win. Here we have individual tryouts to judge individual performance with 2 or 3 constant players. The rest know that they are on the way out, not in, and start looking for numbers for their stat line.
this is by all meanings, a no win situation for more than half of the roster.
January 18th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
PJ Carlesimo is the worst coach which i ever saw…..
January 18th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Sonics are the worst team in the NBA right now. Yes you heard it right, isn’t worse than T-wolves.
I won’t watch Sonic’s game again until they trade all these clowns who look for their own number.
Just terrible roster even for D-league standard.
What is Presti doing???????? Do something.
January 18th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Down 30. Again. To the Grizzlies. Playing without Rudy Gay.
I can’t remember the last time I saw a team play with so little pride and get blown out so many times within half of a season. The Bob Weiss team of 2 years ago was nasty - but that was nothing like these guys.
January 18th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Lol, this is second time this year Memphis has scored over 100 going into the 4th against us, only this time its without their leading scorer. What a joke.
January 18th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Getting our asses kicked by the 10-28 Grizzlies! Nice What 2-3-4 more years of this? I believe if somehow someway Bennett would sell to local ownership this team would go on a 5 game win streak! A sense of urgency would return!
January 18th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
105 point by the Grizzlies with 10 minutes to go, WOW
January 18th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
What happened to that team that fought so hard and stayed so close early in the season, that lost all those close games only because they couldn’t make the clutch plays down the stretch?
Now they’re getting outworked, outhustled, and outcoached - virtually every night.
January 18th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
Mr Baker Says:
Here we have individual tryouts to judge individual performance with 2 or 3 constant players. The rest know that they are on the way out, not in, and start looking for numbers for their stat line.
this is by all meanings, a no win situation for more than half of the roster.
Dead on. That’s why i’ve been cutting the individual players quite a bit more slack than I have in year’s past. Can players be blamed for looking at their stat lines if they all know their coach, GM, etc., isn’t concerned with winning?
January 18th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Can anyone think of any particular reason this Grizzlies team dominates us so hard every time? Other than the obvious reason that we suck balls, you can’t ignore the fact that Memphis is pretty awful against the rest of the league too, yet when they play us for some reason it always ends up looking like a pro team against highschoolers. I guess another way to ask the question is, why is Memphis’ record as bad as ours against the rest of the league (take out head-to-head), when they’re clearly so much more talented?
January 18th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
wow! this sucks dick!
January 18th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
I know i’m pissing in the wind around here but i’m to old for much more of this crap what would it take to turn this around next season? at least be on the fringe of a playoff run!
January 18th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
We have the Mav’s tommorrow, can we forfeit?
January 18th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
How can PJ be so knowledgeable and articulate about the game of basketball - and yet be so poor at actually managing players and making the necessary in-game adjustments?
And on the players’ side - where is the veteran leadership on this team? Where are Thomas and Wally or whomever else in the midst of this losing streak? Is everybody just playing for themselves, because they think they might get traded?
So much for Presti’s culture: it’s one thing to lose because you lack the talent to be competitive - it’s another thing entirely to lose because you lack the heart and the pride to compete on a nightly basis.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
So this is the time of the Sonics NBA season when I traditionally say “this is where the wheels begin to fall off the wagon”.
Funny, even though I knew they weren’t going to win many games I didn’t think I would feel the same way I did last season because it is a completely different situation than last year. But not much has changed emotionally. It still hurts to see the team be so lousy.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
I think there’s a reason know one hired PJ for the last 5 years he’s a lousy pro coach!
January 18th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
Don’t sweat it, JC. It’s all about the draft pick.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
That Bobby Jones, a borderline NBA player who the Grizzlies just signed to a ten-day contract, almost had a triple-double is outrageous. Wake up Jeff.
Lox, I do agree that the Grizzlies are a matchup problem for the Sonics, though the first game that they played at the Key was close until Lowry hit that three to put the game out of reach in the final seconds. So they all haven’t been blowouts. Maybe it’s that Memphis nightlife.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
I think even if we had the top 3 picks in the upcoming draft we wouldn’t be much better next season, it’s a veterans game and the guy’s that should be contributing right now Swift, Petro, Sene, Luke aren’t getting it done. Collison has been solid but that’s it!
January 18th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
Dick -
Like I said: given the relative lack/mishmash of talent and the nature of rebuilding, I can handle the losing - if they compete every night. They’re not competing, and I don’t see anyone - rookies, veterans, anybody - stepping up and playing with a sense of urgency or pride.
Until someone (maybe beantown?) convinces me otherwise, I’m putting this on PJ.
And as for the draft picks, we’re bad enough as it is - that stuff will take care of itself. Besides, there’s no guarantee that if you finish in the 5th slot you get the 5th pick.
As for the evaluation process: I coud understand early on if they needed a month or so, or if they were showcasing players for trades or whatever. But we’re almost to the All-Star break now and they’ve regressed significantly in the past several weeks.
The only person who needs evaluating now is PJ. He may be a good person, and he may really know the game. But right now his decisions and his style are killing this team.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
who would you rather have Jeff Green or Brandon Roy?
who has a better upside? Is Green going to be as good or better or not? Roy looks pretty damn good right now.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Sonics shows no heart in the court recently like they played closed game in early season.
This is very true. Sonics has no value whatsoever to Seattle. Just be gone nobody will be grieved by this lousy team.
Roster are mostly D-league garbage. Head coach has no idea what the game is about- proof defense almost non-existence and offense guys just look for their numbers.
Where is the promise, Presti? building culture with toughness and heart. Bull shit.
You guys just give up on this team and hope there will be miracle for basketball fan on this city like Hornet will go to Seattle and Sonics garbage will go to OKC.
And suddenly basketball fans will enjoy playoff hunting for championship.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
WTF?
January 18th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Roy is a fabulous player, and a tremendous team leader.
We’ll have to wait to see if Green becomes either of those.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
“We’ll have to wait to see if Green becomes either of those.”
I hope so!
January 18th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
A friend of mine texted me during the game and advanced this chilling observation: “Kevin Durant’s game is beginning to look a lot like Glenn Robinson’s.”
January 18th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
“A friend of mine texted me during the game and advanced this chilling observation: “Kevin Durant’s game is beginning to look a lot like Glenn Robinson’s.”
Yeah minus the great 3 point shot…
January 18th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
All right, Pau Gasol (Player Efficiency Rating: 20.5; True Shooting Percentage: 56.7%; Net +/- Production: +6.6; Net Points Per 100 Possessions: +7.2) showed tonight why he’s better than any player on the Seattle Supersonics. As a true 7′0′” tall post presence who can successfully rotate between center and power forward, Gasol manages to be effective on both offense and defense—which is an unusual quality for countless guys at his position.
Because the Supersonics obviously can’t rely on a high volume shooting, defensively inept swingman (i.e., Kevin Durant) — or, for that matter, an overmatched combo forward (i.e., Jeff Green) — to carry the ballclub, Sam Presti must jump on any opportunity to immediately shore up the frontline. The acquisition of Gasol, who’s presently a top-25 player in the NBA, would accomplish that objective.
Anyhow, it’s amusing that Green was completely and utterly destroyed by University of Washington alumnus Bobby Jones tonight. The so-called genius, Sam Presti, sure blew it with the decision to trade Ray Allen — who was a franchise cornerstone here — for the overrated Green, the overpaid Wally Szczerbiak, and the mediocre Delonte West. That, folks, was a shrewd fleecing by Danny Ainge from the moment he signed the papers.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Rebuilding is a 3-4 year process, which fits OKC timetable as Dick and others have said. If the plan is to rebuild without skipping steps then it means not making trades to get better this year OR next year, because we’ll need another high pick. The Wally contract points to end of next year as Presti’s plan for clearing cap space. Free agents after next year’s losing debacle will see all the young talent and think we may be ready to do something. Painful couple of years ahead. Trades this season could be designed to make us worse in the near term, but giving us something down the road like more first round picks.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
“I think even if we had the top 3 picks in the upcoming draft we wouldn’t be much better next season, it’s a veterans game…”
How true. Even if the arena issue is resolved and the team is sold to Balmer we are going to be watching this for probably 3 more years. It is alot easier to blow up a team and trade your veteran stars than to replace them. There is no guarantee Derrick Rose or any other draft pick is going to be able to help any time soon. And where are we going to find a 20/10 post player?
January 18th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
“who would you rather have Jeff Green or Brandon Roy?
who has a better upside? Is Green going to be as good or better or not? Roy looks pretty damn good right now.” {Hoooop}
I’ll take Brandon Roy over Jeff Green every day of the week and twice on Sunday. It’s no contest whatsoever.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
D_G Says:
“I’m getting used to watching games with low attendance, but I don’t think I’ve seen anything like this.
They panned back and the entire upper deck was empty. Lower deck is one-third full (no exageration). Must be at one-sixth capacity.
Less than when I’ve been at the Storm games. ”
Couldn’t help but notice that sea of blue seats open right there in prime locations. Nobody even moving up to fill those is scary.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
A few thoughts.
Courtsense: the players really are that bad. And Carlisemo has lost them.
You can’t tell pro players that they have to play harder than the other team every night just to try to keep the score close. That is bull and pros know it. The NBA is not the “give it the old college try” league. They out-worked their opponents for the first month or more, lost some close games and won a few games, but having to put out maximum effort every night is not going to work for 82 games. These guys look like they are burned out already, and its not even mid-season.
Boy, the Sonics sure look better with Luke back in the lineup. Right…….
Even thought the Sonics lost by 24 to one of the worst teams in the NBA, the Supes only had 11 “turns” tonight, so I bet Callabro thinks they played well.
January 18th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
“Even thought the Sonics lost by 24 to one of the worst teams in the NBA, the Supes only had 11 “turns” tonight, so I bet Callabro thinks they played well. ”
Callabro no doubt would like to be anywhere but here. He’s watched the decimation of the team and gets to call every play now with this crew of non players. And in Sonicland you don’t dare make a peep against the company line or you’re out on your head. I just hope he isn’t done once his contract is up (not sure when that is).
January 18th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
courtsense Says:
Until someone (maybe beantown?) convinces me otherwise, I’m putting this on PJ.
I think it runs deeper than that. I think PJ’s just as much of a pawn in this rebuilding throwaway season as the players are.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
i think we’ve hit rock bottom :(…this is really depressing.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
do you think Presti assumes the rest of the season will continue like this and do you think he plans to do anything about it?
January 18th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
I didn’t really mean to take a shot at Callabro. I think he’s a great commentator. He usually makes me laugh more than once during a game — even one as bad as tonight’s. If that came across as a cheap shot at Callabro, then I retract it.
Just pointing out that turnovers are not always that crucial.
I’ll leave Callabro out of my rantings from now on. He’s a real asset to this city, so I should keep that in mind.
By the way, did you all know that the original sports talk host on KJR radio was Bob Blackburn, who was joined by Kevin Callabro a short time later? Poor Bob. He’s such a gentleman, and there are so many jerks who call into talk radio. He really handled it well, but I can’t believe he enjoyed it much. Callabro, on the other hand was a natural. He knows how to handle “hecklers” on a call-in radio show. Steve Jones was a great talk-radio host in Portland also. I wonder if Jones still does that?
January 18th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Part of the problem is that so much is riding on Durant, but he’s not ready to carry the team, so the learning curve looks pretty nasty. Yeah, he’s had some great games, and shown me some things that give me tremendous optimism - but most nights he looks like a 19-yr. old rookie, getting schooled by older, wiser veterans like Mike Miller.
It’s gotta be brutal for the players to be losing so much and at the same time have a coach that always appears to be on the verge of blowing a gasket. I’d blow my top too, to see some of the stuff these players do on a nightly basis - but I wonder if PJ knows when to back off or when to change his vibe. He seems to be stuck on critical mode.
More importantly, is it even possible for veteran leaders to step forward on a team where the coach is so inherently negative in his approach? Or are these guys so soft it doesn’t matter?
January 18th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
I think Calabro has another year or 2 on his contract - and I know for a fact he won’t go to OKC if the team moves. At that point, maybe he goes for a national gig, ala Kevin Harlan.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
Yes I remember listening to the Sonics on the radio as a kid in the late 60’s / early 70’s and learning who Snyder, Haywood etc. were only from radio. Always liked that medium from those experiences, in fact years later on long winter ski trips to Utah various NBA games in Phoenix, GS, Denver, Utah would come on as the reception cleared at night and I’d remember those days listening to Blackburn.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
KC already calls some of the games for ESPN radio. Him and Gus Johnson are probably the two best NBA play-by-play guys that are not featured on national television. Brian Wheeler from Portland also is pretty good.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
If I was Presti, I’d be watching the players very closely on this road trip - to see who, if anybody, steps up and tries to bring the players together, in the locker room and/or on the floor.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
12,986 in N.O. tonight on a Friday night. Not looking too good for that city hitting the attendance mark in the new lease.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
Interesting thread….. Here are my 2 cents….
1. Marbury will NOT be coming to the sonics - crazy - stupid - no way it will happen
2. Millions of taxpayer money - or anyones - to update Husky stadium seems nuts to me. I’m sure there is some reason why the Huskies can’t use Qwest Field - but to me it seems like a no-brainer great idea to get the Huskies to play at the new state of the Art Qwest Field. It sits empty on Huslky game days - why not make this shift?
3. 2 years from now this Sonics team will likley be almost toally different. You could have KD & JG & maybe Collison & everyone else gone. would not surprise me.
4. I’m about ready to join the “I give up on PJ” group. The teams talent is weak & they are young - but this team & season is getting away from PJ fast. Better coaching is needed. I never liked the hire & wanted D. Casey but felt PJ deserved an open mind & fair shot to prove his stuff once he was hired. So far, I am NOT impressed.
5. The S. Times article today on the move/OKC stuff was very solid. It is just a crazy situation. If the court case gets delayed as the city wants I think Clay B. will be in some deep trouble. But even if the trial or mediation gets moved ahead - if the decison favors the city - the NBA will have a mess & there will be major pressure on Clay to sell local.
6. Any trade of current Sonics (other that KD & JG of course) that gets expiring contracts is good. More flexibiltiy & options for trades & free agents etc. I don’t see the Miami trade appealing to Miami but who knows. I think the HEAT are so messed up I can’t see them trading expiring contracts for mediocre players. I just don’t see them as being that dumb - they have no chance to do anything significant this year so why commit your future to guys who suck & have lousy contracts? I just dont’ see it.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
JJ, good stuff. I especially agree with your #3. As to why Miami might do that trade - the Heat are currently 11 games back in the loss column for the 8th spot in the East. New Jersey and Atlanta are at 6 and 7 - and neither one is running away.
Riley is certainly vain enough to think that with some new blood and his great coaching (?) Miami could make a leap forward in the second half. All he has to believe is that they can get into the playoffs - and that once they get there, Wade and Shaq (with a better cast) give them a shot at a first-round upset.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
Sam Presti should definately make a couple trades before the upcoming trading deadline in February. PJ and his assistant coaches should for sure implement a new system and style of play for the team. A trade with Miami that was flying around sounds good. Time to make the changes Sam Presti.
January 19th, 2008 at 10:58 am
“Anyhow, it’s amusing that Green was completely and utterly destroyed by University of Washington alumnus Bobby Jones tonight. The so-called genius, Sam Presti, sure blew it with the decision to trade Ray Allen — who was a franchise cornerstone here — for the overrated Green, the overpaid Wally Szczerbiak, and the mediocre Delonte West. That, folks, was a shrewd fleecing by Danny Ainge from the moment he signed the papers.”
Someone mod this kid off the board. Green is putting up numbers comparable to(if not better) than Scottie Pippen during his rookie year. Not to mention it is pretty difficult to progress as a rookie the way he could be if he had a coach who knew what he was doing. I will continue to say it….anything Durant or Green have that is not working out the way people want it to is a stunted growth due to PJ’s inability to coach. I’ll tell you what AK, if Jeff Green is doing the same thing in 2 years, then I will completely agree with you.
January 19th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
No need to moderate AK off the board - he’s fun to read.
To the point of Pippen’s rookie season vs. Green’s rookie season: despite a massive difference in the relative quality of their respective teams, Green’s performance after only 3 months has been comparable to Pippen’s.
January 19th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Pippen’s rookie year:
21 mins
.463 FG%
.576 FT%
.174 3-pt FG%
7.9 pts
3.8 rebs
2.1 assts
1.7 to
1.2 stl
.7 blk
Pippen’s 2 best teammates:
Jordan: 35 pts, 5.5 rebs, 5.9 assts, 3.2 stl
Oakley: 12 pts, 13 rebs, 3 assts
Pippen’s team: 50-32, 2nd round playoffs
Green’s rookie year thus far:
25 mins
.432 FG%
.688 FT%
.111 3-pt FG%
8.8 pts
4.9 rebs
1.2 assts
1.95 to
.5 stls
.6 blk
Green’s 2 best teammates:
Durant: 20 pts, 4 rebs, 2 assts, .8 stls, 1 blk
Wilcox: 13 pts, 7 rebs, 1 assts
Green’s team: 9-30, 3rd worst record in NBA
As AK would say - “all things considered” Green’s doing alright under the difficult circumstances.
January 19th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Courtsense, you criticized Myk for not showing any respect for the history of the game and then you go ahead and pursue this Green-Pippen comparison. And what’s more shocking is that you relied stats of all things as the basis for your argument. I’m stunned.
You forgot the stat that really matters: Jeff Green’s superhuman basketball IQ. He’s probably better at reading comprehension than Scottie. I would still like to see the result of Green’s score in the logic games section.
January 19th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Thanks for pointing our the paradoxical nature of my last post, Alex - just trying to keep you on your toes.
January 19th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
By the way, I’m not comparing Green to Pippen - for although there are some similarities, there are also some rather obvious stylistic differences to their respective games that make a direct comparison unnecessary. I think Green is much more like David West than he is like Pippen.
I was only pointing out that their rookie numbers are similar, and that anyone projecting Green as a bust after 40 games should recall the perception of Pippen halfway through his rookie season.
But more on that later in my upcoming “History of the Game” segment…stay tuned.
January 19th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Courtsense, any recollection of ten-year NBA veteran and current NCAA basketball color commentator Len Elmore? When he left the NBA in 1984, he enrolled in Harvard Law School! I don’t think we’ll ever see a professional basketball player enrolling at Harvard Law School upon retirement ever again.
January 19th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
While I think the early stat comparison is quite silly, I would say that Pippen’s assist/TO ratio combined with his steals was a pretty good indicator of the type of player he would become.
January 19th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Another reminder from the History of the Game file:
Horace Grant, who obviously went on to become the critical 3rd piece of the Bulls’ first Championship run during the Jordan-era teams, put up almost identical numbers to Green in his rookie year. I’d say he turned out to be a pretty nice component on those title teams.
The point is not whether Green is equal to this player or that player. The point is that rookies are rookies - and other than the best of the best, it takes more than half a season to know where they’ll end up.
January 20th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Steve said: “I thought everyone on Isiah’s roster was untouchable according to him!”
About the only thing untouchable at the Knicks these days is Anucha Browne Sanders!
February 1st, 2008 at 8:25 pm
add your link on line slot
This is similar to comment spam but avoids some of the safeguards designed to stop the latter practice..A Trackback is one of three