1/18/08 Box Score: Sonics 100 Grizzlies 124
Posted on Saturday, January 19th, 2008 at 12:43 am by Big Chris
The final score is not reflective of most of the game. It was worse than the final score. It was that bad. Down by as many as 33 points at one point in the game.
The best +/- of any Supersonics starter was Kurt Thomas at -21. Kevin Durant was -35.
Durant led the Sonics in scoring with 22 points on 8 of 18 shooting. Wally Szczerbiak added 19, Chris Wilcox 13, and Nick Collison 12 points.
(9-30)
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(11-28)
| Seattle | |||||||||||||||
| Name | Min | FG | 3Pt | FT | +/- | Off | Reb | Ast | TO | Stl | BS | BA | PF | Pts | |
| K. Durant | G | 28:25 | 8-18 | 2-4 | 4-4 | -35 | 3 | 3 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 1 | 22 |
| E. Watson | G | 20:47 | 3-8 | 0-3 | 0-0 | -29 | 0 | 1 | 8 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 6 |
| N. Collison | C | 24:22 | 6-12 | 0-0 | 0-1 | -28 | 4 | 6 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 12 |
| K. Thomas | F | 21:23 | 1-4 | 0-0 | 0-2 | -21 | 1 | 8 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 2 |
| J. Green | F | 19:02 | 2-6 | 0-1 | 0-0 | -27 | 1 | 4 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 4 |
| D. Wilkins | 27:57 | 4-10 | 0-3 | 0-0 | +5 | 1 | 4 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 8 | |
| L. Ridnour | 27:12 | 4-10 | 0-0 | 0-0 | +5 | 0 | 5 | 6 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 8 | |
| W. Szczerbiak | 26:46 | 8-16 | 2-7 | 1-2 | +4 | 0 | 5 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 19 | |
| C. Wilcox | 23:59 | 5-9 | 0-0 | 3-6 | -2 | 3 | 4 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 3 | 2 | 13 | |
| J. Petro | 11:17 | 0-3 | 0-0 | 2-2 | +5 | 2 | 7 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 2 | |
| M. Gelabale | 8:49 | 2-3 | 0-1 | 0-0 | +3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4 | |
| D. West | DNP - Coach’s Decision | ||||||||||||||
| Totals | 43-99 | 4-19 | 10-17 | 15 | 47 | 19 | 11 | 2 | 7 | 11 | 13 | 100 | |||
| Percentages: | .434 | .211 | .588 | Team Rebounds: 9 |
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| Memphis | |||||||||||||||
| Name | Min | FG | 3Pt | FT | +/- | Off | Reb | Ast | TO | Stl | BS | BA | PF | Pts | |
| B. Jones |
G |
40:23 | 8-13 | 2-4 | 2-3 | +24 | 5 | 13 | 7 | 1 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 4 | 20 |
| M. Conley | G | 29:30 | 3-8 | 1-3 | 0-0 | +28 | 0 | 3 | 8 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 7 |
| D. Milicic | C | 18:58 | 3-7 | 0-0 | 0-0 | +25 | 1 | 4 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 5 | 2 | 2 | 6 |
| P. Gasol | F | 32:17 | 11-19 | 0-1 | 2-3 | +32 | 5 | 12 | 5 | 2 | 0 | 4 | 0 | 1 | 24 |
| M. Miller | F | 28:49 | 9-17 | 6-9 | 1-3 | +23 | 1 | 4 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 25 |
| J. Navarro | 26:47 | 9-12 | 3-5 | 0-0 | +1 | 0 | 4 | 5 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 21 | |
| K. Lowry | 18:30 | 2-7 | 1-4 | 0-0 | -4 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 5 | |
| S. Swift | 14:55 | 3-5 | 0-0 | 0-0 | -1 | 0 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 6 | |
| H. Warrick | 13:35 | 3-6 | 0-0 | 2-4 | 0 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 8 | |
| A. Brown | 10:10 | 1-4 | 0-0 | 0-0 | -4 | 1 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | |
| B. Cardinal | 6:05 | 0-2 | 0-0 | 0-0 | -4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | |
| D. Stoudamire | DNP - Coach’s Decision | ||||||||||||||
| Totals | 52-100 | 13-26 | 7-13 | 15 | 53 | 32 | 13 | 6 | 11 | 7 | 16 | 124 | |||
| Percentages: | .520 | .500 | .538 | Team Rebounds: 8 |
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| Game Info |
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Technical Fouls: None Attendance: 13,451 |
January 19th, 2008 at 1:59 am
Somebody on Sonicscentral boasted about Bobby Jones and his bright future. Jones definently shined in this game and wonder why some guys on the Sonics can’t find a similar groove. I think these multi-million dollar long-term deals drains their passion for the game. I thought The Janitor was gonna be a stud in the league before he got the “almighty” dollar and forgot about the instinctual desire to survive, which drives us all to be better. A little suffering is theraputic for the soul in a cleansing like experience.
January 19th, 2008 at 2:54 am
Props to Ridnour for finding his confidence again and stepping up as an assertive and vocal floor leader. Ridnour’s Basketball IQ and Emotional IQ are finally getting to shine with this inexperienced squad. The Sonics show glimpses of how fun a team-oriented sport can be and how bright their future should hopefully be in Seattle.
January 19th, 2008 at 3:19 am
Couldve been worse…they couldve had their best young player playing…
January 19th, 2008 at 3:20 am
Who’s the janitor? Brian Cardinal? He is one wealthy janitor.
January 19th, 2008 at 5:05 am
Fun column from the stranger. http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Content?oid=484185
Hopefully we’re all that crazy about the sonics.
January 19th, 2008 at 5:27 am
nice article
January 19th, 2008 at 6:59 am
yes, nice column, that is the only time or way that I am going to read the stranger, I am a lefty but I am not the hipster demographic.
He could have said something about the Mukilshoots, I think he has the right to encourage Americathon to happen.
January 19th, 2008 at 8:34 am
“Props to Ridnour for finding his confidence again and stepping up as an assertive and vocal floor leader. Ridnour’s Basketball IQ and Emotional IQ are finally getting to shine with this inexperienced squad.”
Thanks for finding a silver lining to counter all the negative posts that followed last night’s disappointing performance. All this doom and gloom is contagious and just snowballs.
You are right! Watch out Mavericks, Vanilla Pudding is back! How will Avery Johnson find an answer when Whipped Cream is on the floor?
January 19th, 2008 at 8:34 am
“Props to Ridnour for finding his confidence again and stepping up as an assertive and vocal floor leader. Ridnour’s Basketball IQ and Emotional IQ are finally getting to shine with this inexperienced squad.”
Thanks for finding a silver lining to counter all the negative posts that followed last night’s disappointing performance. All this doom and gloom is contagious and just snowballs.
You are right! Watch out Mavericks, Vanilla Pudding is back! How will Avery Johnson find an answer when Whipped Cream is on the floor?
January 19th, 2008 at 11:47 am
phenom Says:
Ridnour’s Basketball IQ and IQ are finally getting to shine with this inexperienced squad.
Yes, Luke really showed how to play the game against the deep bench reserves that Memphis had on the floor in the 4th quarter. lmao.
January 19th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Too bad Sene wasn’t here last night for the 4th quarter. He really would’ve shown Stromile Swift a thing or two.
January 19th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Vanilla Pudding is gotta be the best nickname for Luke that I’ve ever heard.
I actually enjoy Vanilla Pudding - but Luke, well, if Sam can find a new home for the kid, that would be great too.
January 19th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
I’m curious if the Sonics loss to the Mavericks tonight will be smaller than the margin of defeat that the Nevada voters will deliver to the “Two Americas” charlatan John Edwards later today.
Mike Conley ran the offense incredibly. Eight assists and no turnovers in twenty-nine minutes. I think the Grizzlies decision to draft him over the likes of Jeff Green, Yi Jianlian, and Cory Brewer will be validated very soon.
January 19th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
The decision to draft Conley was a no-brainer: why would the Grizzlies draft Jeff Green when they already had Rudy Gay at the SF spot and Gasol at the PF spot? Conley was the best PG on the board and they needed a PG = so they drafted him.
January 19th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
I still wonder if Presti made the trade with the idea that either Conley or Horford would drop to #5. Starting the rebuilding process with two top five picks spent on wing players is/was a real puzzler.
January 19th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
How bout a few guys on the squad quit taking jumpshots until a rythem can be established within the paint. A point-guard needs to get the shooters going and get the ball to the big men who are doin the dirty work. An open jumper with half the shot clock left is the lazy way out for a facilitator when they need to be thinking more about getting Drant and Z on the proper channels.
BTW, I think Britney is an idiot-savant who is driven by her programmed desire to entertain under a spotlight and without supportive adults around she can sometimes lose her natural rythem. I bet she could fine tune her gifted abilities once she can find her safe and happy place again. God bless Brit and her children.
January 19th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
I’d rather grab a couple six foot ten athletic freaks and then trust in Presti to find another hidden Parker. Rose or Mayo is a nice consolation prize for a long rebuilding period.
January 19th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Speaking of Conley, Mighty Mouse is about to get bought out and could be a nice addition to the three-headed monster known as the Sonic’s point guard dilemma.
January 19th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Courtsense, the Grizzlies already had a pretty good PG in Lowry. If they thought that Jeff Green and Yi were absolute studs, they could have drafted either guy and traded Gasol for future draft picks and cap relief. If the Grizzlies had the #2 pick, they probably would drafted Durant even though Miller is a stellar SG. They would have probably then traded Miller.
Presti could probably get Chris Wallace to listen to a trade proposal for Gasol if Presti were willing to include the Sonics first round pick for the 2008 draft and the Suns unprotected draft pick in 2010. However, Gasol strikes me as the type of player that would repel Presti.
January 19th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
courtsense Says:
Vanilla Pudding is gotta be the best nickname for Luke that I’ve ever heard.
Thanks courtsense!
January 19th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
courtsense Says:
Vanilla Pudding is gotta be the best nickname for Luke that I’ve ever heard.
I second that! He’s soft and white and is runny! I like that a lot! That descibes him perfectly!
January 19th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Alex, any team coulda woulda shoulda drafted a lot of different guys. I like Kyle Lowry as a backup PG, he could come off the bench for my team anytime - but I’m pretty sure most experts projected Conley at a higher level. But that’s their team. I don’t care what Memphis does. I just can’t see drafting Green at #5 when you’ve already got Rudy Gay.
I agree that Gasol is not a Presti type player - and nor is he a courtsense type player.
January 19th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
“Vanilla Pudding is gotta be the best nickname for Luke that I’ve ever heard.”
Guess that beats my Whipped Cream :/.
January 19th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Is Swift about ready to contribute his defensive presense during a game or are we just waiting for Sene to develop for the future?
Props to Nate and the Blazers in rebuilding a disaster of a roster.
January 19th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Whipped Cream might work for WallyZ - he gets whipped by PJ every night, but he somehow manages to stay pretty smooth.
January 19th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
I still wonder if Presti made the trade with the idea that either Conley or Horford would drop to #5. Starting the rebuilding process with two top five picks spent on wing players is/was a real puzzler.
- I totally agree with tihs lineof thinking
January 19th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
I still wonder if Presti made the trade with the idea that either Conley or Horford would drop to #5. Starting the rebuilding process with two top five picks spent on wing players is/was a real puzzler.
- I totally agree with tihs lineof thinking
January 19th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
What is wrong with this site? Why don’t you bum’s make today’s game thread, today.
January 19th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
I was gonna post the Stranger article but you beat me to it. Nice article, good for Sherman Alexie. I like the title, “Sonics Death Watch”. Very appropros, IMO.
Whipped cream LOL! C’mon, WallyZ is better than that!
Vanilla Pudding… perfect, Courtsense. Did you make that up yourself?
January 19th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
The more I see, hear, and watch Wally Z the more I respect I have for him as an NBA player…
January 19th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
Presti drafted Green because he never had any intention of retaining Lewis (hence the lack of an offer when they met later) and thus the team needed a SF.
As for Conley: why would Presti want Conley when Sam already said he wants versatile, athletic players who can defend multiple positions? At a slight 6-1/180, Conley hardly qualifies. The other obvious factor against Conley is that ‘08 - not ‘07 - is supposed to be the Year of the PG, with several bigger, more athletic and versatile PG’s available - including Rose at 6-4, and Bayless at 6-3. Those players are Presti’s type - not Conley.
As for Horford: why would Presti want Horford when the Sonics already had Collison and Wilcox at PF? Drafting Horford would have required a trade (probably Wilcox) just to find any playing time for Horford.
I thnk Conley and Horford will both be fine NBA players - but I think Presti would rather have Green at SF, Rose or Bayless at PG, and someone else at PF.
January 19th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Alex, if I already had Mike Miller and then drafted Durant, there’s no way I’d trade Miller. He’s an excellent all-around player, and the two of them could certainly play together.
Someday Miller will be a 6th Man of the Year, so even if he didn’t start next to Durant, he could always come off the bench.
January 19th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
If Sam Presti isn’t interested in acquiring Pau Gasol, then that’d just affirm my suspicion that he’s in over his head as a front office executive. I think Presti is an overrated scout, too, as his decisions thus far have extremely puzzled me.
Anyhow, Gasol (Player Efficiency Rating: 20.9; True Shooting Percentage: 56.8%; Net +/- Production: +6.6; Net Points Per 100 Possessions: +7.2) would provide the Seattle Supersonics with a true number one option on offense — as Kevin Durant must be immediately reigned in by the coaching staff — and, most importantly, solidify a less than stellar frontline with his various skills on offense and defensive fortitude.
Why, by the way, don’t some people like Gasol? Although anybody who claimed that Kevin Durant was the second-coming Michael Jordan is a foolish idiot with no respect toward true greatness — as are the folks who constantly compare Jeff Green to Scottie Pippen, since Pippen (Player Efficiency Rating: 12.9; Assists Per Turnover: 1.3; Defensive Rating: 103) was inherently more athletic, skilled at ball-handling and playmaking, and better on defense during his rookie campaign than Green (Player Efficiency Rating: 9.7; Assists Per Turnover: 0.6; Offensive Rating: 91; Defensive Rating: 108) — I can nevertheless envision how some braindead homers might delude themselves into believing that type of bullshit. It, however, is goddamn impossible for me to wrap my head around why anyone would have qualms with obtaining a star post presence like Gasol — who absolutely manhandled the Supersonics last night — but I guess that some people just don’t get it.
Again, if I was in Presti’s position, then my opening offer to Chris Wallace would be a package of Kurt Thomas, Chris Wilcox, a 2008 first-round draft pick (via the Phoenix Suns), and a 2010 first-round draft pick (via the Phoenix Suns) for Gasol. If that isn’t enough to consummate a deal, then so be it. Either way, though, this theoretical transaction should be sought out by Presti—especially since he’s yet to validate the genius tag that’s been prematurely put on him.
January 19th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Here we go again. Green and Earl with some questionable decision making in the early goings.
January 19th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
If people want to watch present-day version of Scottie Pippen, then check out Andre Iguodala of the Philadelphia 76ers. Jeff Green, on the other hand, is a hybrid of Boris Diaw and Ryan Gomes—which I stated before the season. Whenever folks try to compare players to one another, I suggest that you watch some games — or at least a few highlight videos — and, in turn, account for both statistical output and stylistic similarities.
January 19th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
As for Conley: why would Presti want Conley when Sam already said he wants versatile, athletic players who can defend multiple positions? At a slight 6-1/180, Conley hardly qualifies. The other obvious factor against Conley is that ‘08 - not ‘07 - is supposed to be the Year of the PG, with several bigger, more athletic and versatile PG’s available - including Rose at 6-4, and Bayless at 6-3. Those players are Presti’s type - not Conley
- Im sure he wanted someone nice and big/versatile like Tony Parker…
As for Horford: why would Presti want Horford when the Sonics already had Collison and Wilcox at PF? Drafting Horford would have required a trade (probably Wilcox) just to find any playing time for Horford.
- Cause he is better than either of them???
January 19th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
I really cant believe how PJ Carlesimo can’t understand that Sonics are losing every game in 1st qtr…..Green and Watson cant play in starting lineup….
January 19th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Man, Z is playing some mean D out there.
January 19th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
get your f’ing hands up, Wilcox!!! what a slacker.
January 19th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Yeah, Myk, you’re right about how Al Horford and Mike Conley, Jr. are both several levels above Jeff Green. Billy Knight and Chris Wallace, unlike Sam Presti, made astute choices during the 2007 NBA Draft. Basically, Presti sold the farm (i.e., Ray Allen) for a couple of rotten seeds (i.e., Jeff Green & Delonte West); it wasn’t a good first impression.
January 19th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
lmao Nick with the J!
January 19th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Wally cant find his shoot,Watson is not a PG he is a SG….
January 19th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Myk, you assume that because Presti liked Tony Parker for the team he was working at then, that he’d like a similarly small PG for the team he’s running now…I don’t assume that.
Horford may indeed be better than Wilcox and Collison - no argument from me - but that doesn’t mean he’s the kind of PF Presti envisions for Seattle.
January 19th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
How badly do BOTH of our point guards SUCK?!
I counted 3 times in the 1st quarter when Watson took a jumper without making a single pass in the halfcourt set. Luke comes in, same old shyat.
I also love the way PJ emphasizes the inside/out game.
January 19th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
“Horford may indeed be better than Wilcox and Collison - no argument from me - but that doesn’t mean he’s the kind of PF Presti envisions for Seattle.”
Presti wouldn’t want a young tough defense-first, NBA-ready body at 6′10 250 lbs, and a consistent rebounder at the PF position? I find that hard to believe.
January 19th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
good substitutions PJ,we are now down by 14…..Please give some balls to Green to make few 3 pointers….
January 19th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Well Wally World, I’m in agreement with you that Wally needs to be in the first unit. Green and Durant should not play together for more than five-ten minutes a game if the Sonics want to win more than seventeen games this season. That means Green should yield his starting spot to Wally and go back to his role as the backup PF.
Damien was actually a bright spot in the first half.
January 19th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
When Wally came out like 6 minutes before halftime we trial by 6,now at the half we are down 22…..There are some problems clearly,this coach is the worst thing which i ever saw….Man Wally can help this team so much but he is not playing the major role because PJ thinks that Wally is not so good…This is 3rd game in a row where we will lose by 20+ and we are playing worse and worse and for few games we will be down 50…..
January 19th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
What made me crazy (the most) in the first half is with 9 seconds to go in the half, instead of holding for the last shot, Watson drives into a wall of defenders and turn it over. Dallas ended up getting two free throw attempts (missed one) and another bucket off the rebound to end the half.
Unbelievable stuff. Does PJ not have the presence of mind to yell “HOLD FOR ONE SHOT”.
January 19th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Since some of you folks are talking about Z, did any of you read this post from Myk in the forum section?:
Did anyone catch these quotes after the loss last night?
“Veteran forward Wally Szczerbiak, who finished with 19 points, said he tried to motivate the team early on this season but was told “I was talking a little too much so I’ve kind of kept my mouth shut as far as that goes and try to be professional and do my job.”
The Sonics better trade Wally fast before he convinces any other players that they’re actually supposed to try to win. That might blow the plan.
January 19th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
ajw said:
“Presti wouldn’t want a young tough defense-first, NBA-ready body at 6′10 250 lbs, and a consistent rebounder at the PF position? I find that hard to believe.”
Who knows - maybe Presti wants to run three 6-9 wings, a big C, and a big PG. Or maybe he wants a guy like Kevin Love. Or maybe he wants a free agent. I have no idea -
January 19th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
“The Sonics better trade Wally fast before he convinces any other players that they’re actually supposed to try to win. That might blow the plan.” {Dick Tate}
Astonishingly, I feel somewhat bad for Wally Szczerbiak. At least Szczerbiak is getting paid $12,000,000 to play for this piece of shit team, though, so that’s got to be some sort of consolation for him. As it is, Clay Bennett, Sam Presti, and P.J. Carlesimo have yet to master the art of doublespeak, for I sure don’t have faith in their line of bullshit.
January 19th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
“The Sonics better trade Wally fast before he convinces any other players that they’re actually supposed to try to win. That might blow the plan. ”
LOL. No shit.
Sounds like a top-down organization… again. A little consensus building, democratic approach (to an extent, mind you), goes a long way in getting individuals to buy in to any kind of vision.
January 19th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
“Green and Durant should not play together for more than five-ten minutes a game if the Sonics want to win more than seventeen games this season. That means Green should yield his starting spot to Wally and go back to his role as the backup PF.”
I disagree, Durant, Green are supposed to be the future cornerstones of the team they need to play together as much as possible. I heard Percy Allen on sports radio a couple days ago say he hasn’t seen Durant, Green click for a game or even one play yet this season. I started thinking I cant recall seeing that either.
January 19th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Wally is always so animated out there. A bit of a spaz, but not in a bad way.
He actually plays with effort every time he’s on the floor.
January 19th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
OK JC, so maybe you’re convinced that Presti would’ve passed on Horford or Conley if either were available in order to select Green. I’m sure not convinced but one will never know. If you’re right, might I dare suggest that if Green is the true “Presti type player”, maybe Durant will be the trade chip to eventually bring back the star level player to put around Green to make a more well balanced team? I wouldn’t be surprised if that ever happened.
January 19th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
Just look at Wally guys,he wants to play,to score,to win,thats Wally which i want…..
January 19th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
our starting PG has 6 assists and 5 turnovers. LOL
January 19th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
“Wally is always so animated out there. A bit of a spaz, but not in a bad way.
He actually plays with effort every time he’s on the floor.”
I agree. He, Collison and Green are the only ones I’ve seen give it their all lately.
January 19th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
although Green hasn’t produced much…
January 19th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Nick seems to have found his JS, however he still gets 3 turns.
January 19th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
I agree. He, Collison and Green are the only ones I’ve seen give it their all lately.
- Yup…this is the biggest thing I am disappointed about Durant so far…
January 19th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Dick, I have no idea if Presti would’ve drafted Conley or Horford instead of Green, given the opportunity. I’m just speculating. My belief is that Sam sees Green as the best type of complement to Durant. But I could be wrong. Durant would have to be a total bust, ala Kwame Brown, to get traded.
January 19th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
“I disagree, Durant, Green are supposed to be the future cornerstones of the team they need to play together as much as possible. I heard Percy Allen on sports radio a couple days ago say he hasn’t seen Durant, Green click for a game or even one play yet this season. I started thinking I cant recall seeing that either.”
If they want to win, then Green and Durant should not be playing together. Through half a season, the team has pretty much been a disaster when those two guys are on the court at the same time. However, if development is the primary goal, then yes, Durant and Green should be playing together.
January 19th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
“- Yup…this is the biggest thing I am disappointed about Durant so far… ”
I agree, he’s not been putting out great effort of late. Maybe he’s tired of the pressure of such a huge role they’ve saddled him with in his first year at 19 years of age? On a team destined to lose, he’s supposed to be the #1 guy. Talk about a bad way to introduce a kid to the league.
January 19th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
“- Yup…this is the biggest thing I am disappointed about Durant so far… ”
Off the ball, I don’t see him working to get open. He’s letting his defender have it easy. Also seems like he’s shying away from contact when he’s trying to contest a shot inside or going for a rebound.
Did he even break a sweat this week??
January 19th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
“Durant would have to be a total bust, ala Kwame Brown, to get traded.”
I dont agree, what if Durant and I dont agree with this turns into a nice player Ray Allen, Glen Robinson, McGrady type and Presti thinks he can get someone he thinks might do a little more he could easily trade him. Allen and McGrady have both been traded and they obviously weren’t bust.
January 19th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
“Off the ball, I don’t see him working to get open. He’s letting his defender have it easy. Also seems like he’s shying away from contact when he’s trying to contest a shot inside or going for a rebound.”
Yep. Standing around a lot, on both ends. WTF is up with that?
January 19th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
“I just think he’s ideal for what he brings to us off the bench,” Carlesimo said. “And I think secondly we need to get the other guys experience and playing time against the front-line guys (on other teams).”
Quotes like these from PJ lead me to believe that winning is not the #1 priority.
January 19th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
FREE PETRO! we have no chance tonight anyway
January 19th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
“Through half a season, the team has pretty much been a disaster when those two guys are on the court”
That’s scary, the two guy’s that are the future of the franchise have been a disaster playing together! There’s no sense in trying to win games at this point let’s see if these two can get something going together!
January 19th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
“There’s no sense in trying to win games at this point let’s see if these two can get something going together! ”
Well, there IS a good reason to try to win games now … if even hardcore fans like us are getting depressed at their performance, we TOTALLY need a win thrown in there to keep our spirits up. Sonics need all the love they can get in this political time if we’re going to keep the team here.
January 19th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
“Sonics need all the love they can get in this political time if we’re going to keep the team here. ”
I agree but were way past that point, No one can convince me otherwise that this wasn’t Clay’s plan all along, he is killing interest and the apathy is building!
The truth is if Presti could come clean he might have proceeded a different way in the off season but this was what ownership wanted build for 3-4 years down the road F#*K the fans.
January 19th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
When Jeff Green starts, the team is 1-11. Only three of those eleven losses were single-digit losses. That the team is losing when Jeff and Durant play together for twenty-thirty minutes is not too huge of a concern. What is a concern is that the team fails to compete when Green and Durant play together for twenty-thirty minutes.
January 19th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Why would Clay want to win this year or next? Everyone who’s from here knows that to get things moving around here you have to have a team with buzz that’s winning! If the Sonics were having Portland’s year it would be a lot easier to get the arena deal done.
January 19th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
“What is a concern is that the team fails to compete when Green and Durant play together for twenty-thirty minutes. ”
what was the alternative, play Wilkins?
January 19th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
“No one can convince me otherwise that this wasn’t Clay’s plan all along, he is killing interest and the apathy is building!
The truth is if Presti could come clean he might have proceeded a different way in the off season but this was what ownership wanted build for 3-4 years down the road F#*K the fans.
”
Yeah. Here’s hoping that Clay is not THAT evil. But he very well could be. This kind of thinking belongs in the “Major League” thread on the forlorn “Message Boards” of this site.
January 19th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
“what was the alternative, play Wilkins?”
Start Wally at the SF position. Green should return to the bench and play fifteen minutes a game, instead of the twenty-five to thirty minutes that he’s receiving as a starter.
Tonight’s game was pretty screwed up. Damien actually would not have been a bad alternative; he played pretty well in the first half.
January 19th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
“Start Wally at the SF position. Green should return to the bench and play fifteen minutes a game, instead of the twenty-five to thirty minutes that he’s receiving as a starter.”
Well, if it wins a game, I’m all for it. At this point it takes a real effort to stay in front of the tv set for this team.
January 19th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Speedcat, the schedule does get lighter once this roadtrip ends most likely with another blowout loss against the Rockets (TMac returned tonight in a victory against the Spurs).
The Supes have a seven game homestand with Houston, Atlanta, Sacramento, San Antonio, Cleveland, New York, and Chicago.
January 19th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
I don’t think they’ll get a win until Sacramento comes to town. That would make what, 12 losses in a row?
But hey - what’s a dozen straight losses these days? The Heat have Wade and Shaq and a Hall of Fame coach and they’ve lost 13 in a row already.
January 19th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
Have the two youngsters hit the “rookie wall”? They seem to be regressing, but so is the rest of the team. I’m actually somewhat shellshocked by the new low level of defense on this team.
Szczerbiak and Collison are the only two on the roster that seem to be holding down their end of the bargain. Even Kurt Thomas looks like he’s ready to pack it in.
All in all there’s really nothing positive these days in Sonicsville.
January 19th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
After Durant’s 6 for 26 against the Lakers (the most takes and misses of his career thus far) did something change for PJ? Durant’s minutes the last 3 games are the lowest of any 3 game stretch this season. Not by alot and this might be too early a call but I make it so it can be watched. His shooting was fine the last 2 but not tonight. It is time to sit him quicker when he is cold? Maybe, depending on the quality of the shots, defense and the whole picture.
January 19th, 2008 at 10:39 pm
Both of the rookies have definitely hit the wall, and bounced off hard. Last I checked, Durant had yet to get up off the ground.
I agree that among the veterans only Wally and Collison appear to be playing with any sort of urgency or consistency - which is all the more reason to jettison Thomas and anyone else we can dump at the deadline.
January 19th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
Following on DK’s post PJ’s recent response to Durant could be rookie wall management or tougher love or a combo or nothing substantial.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:02 am
If they’re gonna develop the young guys, then it’s time to go all the way - regardless of what the handful of veterans with short-timers syndrome, and a few faithful fans, might think about it.
Don’t get me wrong - I like Thomas and I have a new level of respect for Wally’s competitive fire, if not his actual game. But given that just 40 games in the season has already turned into garbage time, and those guys likely won’t be here in 6 months anyway, it’s time to start planning for the future without them.
Every team in the league who might have an interest in a few of our veterans already knows exactly what Thomas and Wally can bring to the team. There’s no point in playing them more than 20 minutes a night - especially at the expense of the other guys who need that playing time to show they might be worth trading for too. If the locker room blows up because of that, so be it.
It’s time to bring Thomas off the bench with Wally, let Wilcox and Collison start together with Green, Durant, and that point guard - what’s his name? Oh yeah - it doesn’t matter, because they all suck. Pick a name out of PJ’s turtleneck before every game - who cares.
Start Collison, Wilcox, Green, Durant, and #? at PG. Then bring Thomas, Wally, Wilkins, West, and that other poing guard in off the bench. Meanwhile, Presti needs to get busy working those phones to get some of these guys who clearly don’t want to be here - and can you blame them - moved on to their new team, hopefully for some expiring contracts and draft picks.
Forget keeping Durant and Green apart - that only delays the inevitable time they’ll need to grow together on the floor. Forget starting Thomas or Wally or Wilkins - all of whom will likely be playing elsewhere in less than 6 months or less.
Collison has been the best and most consistent player so far this year - he’s earned a shot to stay and grow with the kids. Wilcox probably won’t last under Presti, but even if he doesn’t, let’s at least give him a chance to show something and perhaps in the process he can attract a potential trade partner.
It’s painfully obvious that PJ’s screaming drill sergeant coaching style doesn’t fly with the veterans. His style is better suited for the younger kids, most of whom probably got that in college anyway. Collison is a coach’s son - he doesn’t need to be yelled at or be reminded of what to do. Ditto for Green - he played long enough at Georgetown to know better. But Durant - along with whatever other 19 or 20 year old kids they might draft this year - need to learn accountability and discipline. So if PJ is gonna be the coach for another year or two, then at least give him a roster of he can teach and handle.
Make it happen, Sam. Bring the veterans off the bench until you can trade them. Get as many expiring contracts and draft picks as you can. The clock to the trade deadline is ticking…
January 20th, 2008 at 12:26 am
but courtsense, I need a freakin’ win over here….
January 20th, 2008 at 12:28 am
speedcat says:
“but courtsense, I need a freakin’ win over here…”
Sorry speedcat, I just assumed you were still drinking and hadn’t noticed they’d lost 10 in a row.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:15 am
What you say rings true or likely courtsense.
The main deviation I could see is they might say we know enough about what Wilcox-Collison looks like and instead of going from Thomas back to that we are going to give Petro one more try and then Swift a first try in a long while and then Sene essentially his first sustained try.
It could go your way, this way or a mix of the two.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:36 am
Crow, at this point I’d be fine with your idea about Swift, Petro, and Sene. We already know about Petro, but yeah if Swift can get himself physically ready to play they should play him as much as his conditioning and rehab program allows.
If Thomas gets traded, as I anticipate, then Sene will be back on the active roster anyway. Roll all 3 of the Sund-shine Boys out there and let’s see what we’ve got.
January 20th, 2008 at 2:54 am
WallyWords said:
“Wally cant find his shoot,Watson is not a PG he is a SG….”
Watson is not a PG, he is a D-league player…
January 20th, 2008 at 5:02 am
The team is tanking games just like boston did last year. Clay Bennett is evil you can practically see the dollar signs in his eyes. Any coach with half a brain would never start Mr. Turnover Earl Watson.
January 20th, 2008 at 6:47 am
Everyone here should realize that Kevin Durant and Jeff Green are more prone to committing turnovers than Earl Watson.
January 20th, 2008 at 6:53 am
“Watson is not a PG, he is a D-league player…” {dave}
If Earl Watson belongs in the NBDL, then Kevin Durant should join the CBA.
January 20th, 2008 at 7:49 am
I ask that all of you go to hoopshype this morning and read Mark Cubans remarks about the Sonics staying in Seattle. He doesn’t think the fans are screaming loud enough for them to stay.
Is it true? Have we left it in the hands of the lawyers, and Brian Robinson, to be the voice for the fight for them to stay? Are the fans getting tired of protesting and just want to be average fans and watch games? Does it even matter what the fans say?
I did find it interesting that in reading between the lines I feel Cuban thinks it’s about the “market” for the team. Even passionate Mark Cuban puts the importance on the bottom line figure and market size over the love of the game. That may be the one key point for the city.
January 20th, 2008 at 8:31 am
DK:
hoopshype –
Do you have the link?
January 20th, 2008 at 9:33 am
Cuban: Does Seattle want team?
eric.williams@thenewstribune.com
Published: January 20th, 2008 01:00 AM
Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban was frank when asked about what Seattle can do to keep the SuperSonics.
“The big question is, does Seattle even want the team?” Cuban said between gasps for air while working out and talking with reporters. “If they want them, they have to figure out a way for them to stay. And if they don’t, it’s just a question of where (the Sonics go).
“I’d love to see them in Seattle. It’s a great city with great fans. It’s just a shame. But I guess sometimes the rain gets to people.”
Sonics chairman Clay Bennett applied to relocate the team to Oklahoma City in November. However, the team is tied up in litigation in federal court with the City of Seattle over a dispute with the KeyArena lease agreement.
Cuban said the issue boils down to the Sonics having a constrained lease arrangement that hamstrings the team’s ability to generate revenue locally.
When asked about the Sonics’ ability to make it financially in Oklahoma City, Cuban said there might be other options.
“I don’t know that they’re going to Oklahoma City, at least as far as my personal vote,” Cuban said. “I’m going to keep all options open. It’s a question of what’s the best available market, and what’s going to help the NBA the most.
“So we’ll see. And if it’s not better than Seattle, I’ll vote against it.”
Cuban was asked about KeyArena.
“It’s all right, but they’ve got a (expletive) lease,” he said. “People can make the argument that the lease is fine, but business changes, and that’s what happened. The realities of the NBA have changed.”
Cuban said the way the league handles revenue sharing is different, putting a higher importance on teams generating more revenue in their local markets, which then puts more importance on teams having more favorable lease arrangements with their respective cities.
“That’s the piece that they still don’t understand in Seattle,” Cuban said. “I think they still think it’s 1996, and if they could do it then, they can do it now. But the difference between 10 years ago and today with the economics of the NBA and the way the collective bargaining agreement is structured is just night and day.”
Cuban also talked about the situation in New Orleans and the Hornets’ inability to draw fans, even with one of the best teams in the NBA.
“Somebody has to get off of their (butts) and sell tickets,” he said. “They’ve got one of the best records in the Western Conference, and you can’t get people to come? That’s not New Orleans. That’s effort.”
blogs.thenewstribune.com/sonics
January 20th, 2008 at 10:15 am
Mo Sene was 11-16 and 4-5 from the line for 26 points last night (granted, Bakersfield has the worst record in the D-league). He has upped his FG% to 63.3%. Not bad. He had a below average rebounding game. He seems to get a steal a game. He also continues to show that he will never be a PG - once again getting zero assists.
January 20th, 2008 at 10:18 am
The references are halfway down the page
http://www.hoopshype.com/rumors.htm
January 20th, 2008 at 10:25 am
Any Robert Swift news ?
If I’m correct he was supposed to be close to coming back to training
January 20th, 2008 at 11:11 am
It appears that if the Sonics let the contracts of Thomas, Swift, West, and Gelabale expire, and Wilkins opts out, the team will be a few million $ under the salary cap for ‘08, but not enough to do much in free agency.
If, however, they were able to make a trade that moved Wally and Watson or perhaps Ridnour in exchange for more expiring contracts, that money - around $19 million - would come right off the bottom line, and they’d have a lot of cap space to work with over the summer.
Hey Riley, your championship team of a few years ago has lost 13 games in a row. At a time like this you’ve got to ask yourself one question: do I feel lucky? Well do ya, punk?!
January 20th, 2008 at 11:37 am
“The team is tanking games just like boston did last year. Clay Bennett is evil you can practically see the dollar signs in his eyes. “
Not trying to argue against your point, but one thing that I can’t wrap my head around with the tanking theory in this case:
It’s pretty reasonable to assume PJ’s not pushing to win games. But what the hell’s in it for him?
Does he really just expect to have this job for the next ten years? How else is he going to degrease this shit stain from a coaching record that wasn’t good to begin with? If they’re tanking, does PJ plan on coaching like this for three more years? I’d think that would probably be too much for any experienced coach to handle, considering the uncertaintiy of what’s going to happen with the team after that.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Riley’s probably feeling lucky to the point that he’s already dreaming of a Wade & Rose backcourt.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:45 am
Ballo, PJ likely didn’t have any other options to get back in the coaching game. Maybe Bennett promised him some sort of front office position if he’d do the tanking dirty work for a couple of seasons.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:52 am
Dick Tate Says:
“Riley’s probably feeling lucky to the point that he’s already dreaming of a Wade & Rose backcourt.”
Good point - I guess the question is, how much does Riley think Shaq still has left? Is Riley in a hurry to try to win before Shaq retires, or is he taking a longtem approach? Looks to me like Riley himself is about ready to retire.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
What can I get excited about at this point to keep me watching?
It seemed pretty clear to me at the outset, that the Sonics were going to have this kind of season. However, I was banking on ‘discovering’ Delonte West.
He looked in preseason to have a lot of energy, intensity, quickness, explosiveness, fire (am I getting redundant?) He played tough defense.
I see all those things right now too. Did you see him last night — Stackhouse wore him like a uniform.
Nevertheless, West just seems to move to fast to keep a handle on the ball. He seems to have no idea where the defense’s hands are going to be. End result, fumble, fumble, blocked shot, blocked shot.
I had hoped that D. West developing into an NBA player was going to by the storyline of the season.
It’s not happenning.
Anyone want to feed me something else to grab hold to? I’m not sure if Sene kicking ass in D-League (McCoy) is doing it for me. Maybe if they could sneak a few Sene in Idaho highlights in the midst of a Sonics-Mavs type game (and pretend it is part of the live action) it might work.
January 20th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
D_G
although wests shot did not fall last night i did think he was 1 of the only players to be playing with some sort of toughness & engergy. it will only be a matter of time before he does “breakout”. i am not sure i agree with you on the offensive end. i think he was just trying to take it to the hoop (which you should do when your outside shot is not falling) to draw some contact and fouls. a few time he must have been hit but there was no call. he might have been trying a little to hard.
he now needs time to adjust playing the SG spot (bigger and more physical players) and although he said that he is 100% i do not buy it. he has a tendacy to play thru pain and declaire he’s 100%.
also with 25 min. some nights & 10 min. other nights i am sure he is just trying to adjust to pjs system.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
“Does he (PJ) really just expect to have this job for the next ten years?”–Myk.
Good point. I think that when Presti stated that he “didn’t want to skip any steps” in rebuilding and gradually building a contender, he did not envision us being this bad. At the same time, when PJ was hired it was kind of implied that it would be a long term deal. PJ said that he was told that he would be part of a long term plan, a program, like Sloan was building in Utah.
PJ has made some coaching moves that I’ve really disagreed with so far, but, it may be because he’s trying to get players to learn from their mistakes. He could bench the backcourt players or the front court players when they make mistakes, but, it’s not like he has great options. Most of his best options off of the bench have been hurt. I’ve been frustrated with the Watson/West backcourt and leading the league in turnovers. Other fans are frustrated with Ridnour’s lack of defense last season. Other fans justly complain about KD’s shot selection.
Honestly, you could put any coach in the league in charge of this team, and I think we’d still be lousy right now. But, the difference between PJ and a guy like Nate McMillan is that Nate would have benched the guys who committed turnovers by now. Nate probably wouldn’t give a damn how high KD was drafted, and he’d come off the bench anyway. PJ yells and screams at guys like Wally, however, he’s not really a hardcore disciplinarian who has achieved getting a team to gel in the NBA.
But, IMO it doesn’t matter who coaches this team this year. Playing to the teams’ potential would mean winning about 38 games. Having a lousy season would mean winning 15-22 games. What’s the difference? It only affects where the team drafts it’s next piece of the puzzle. Neither a 15 win season nor a 38 win season is going to convince the league that Seattle is still a great market for basketball. Business people or legislators have to do that.
If you want a silver lining this season it’s that it’s really easy to get good seats at a game (because right now we suck).
January 20th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Best play of the night last night . . . (I couldn’t watch the whole game, and b/c I don’t live locally I watched the Dallas telecast, so I might have missed something better)
D. West drives to the basket and dishes it to (well I forget who) for an easy jam.
Shouldn’t I expect to see that a bit more often? I gotta admit upfront, I have never played (I was on the wrestling team through high school and college) . . . but isn’t that the type of thing that a coach draws up and the team works on executing: drive and dish. Or does it just happen?
January 20th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
“Don’t get me wrong - I like Thomas and I have a new level of respect for Wally’s competitive fire, if not his actual game. But given that just 40 games in the season has already turned into garbage time, and those guys likely won’t be here in 6 months anyway, it’s time to start planning for the future without them.”–Courtsense.
I agree as far as Wally goes, but, I think they’re just waiting for his contract to expire anyway. There’s no way in bleep Presti gives Wally another contract; he’s a lame duck who happens to have some shooting skills. We need veterans who can actually teach our young guys how to win if we bring people in with experience. Otherwise, we go through a period of the blind leading the blind for much longer than Portland did before they became successful.
The problem is that we have guys with a few years in the league on our roster like Delonte with just enough career highlights to make a cool YouTube rap video, but, not enough fundamentals to have games without turnovers. That’s depressing as hell.
January 20th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
I bet Sene is feeling a lot better about himself right now. He might even be learning something.
Hey, maybe that’s the ticket… let’s all watch NBADL for the rest of the year instead.
Forfeit the remaining NBA games and have all the non-veteran Sonics squad play for the Stampede. Look out league — now we’re gonna kick some major DL arse!
January 20th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
If the Heat had its choice between Beasley and Rose, I actually think Riley would opt for Beasley. Rose may not be able to fully maximize his talents in a backcourt with Wade as Wade has pretty much been the team’s de facto PG these last three years. Rose’s talents would be wasted if he were drafted just to dribble the ball up the court and hand the ball to Wade to set up the Heat’s halfcourt offense. Beasley is versatile enough to play the SF or PF position. If Riley wants to play Beasley alongside Shaq in the frontcourt, he should explore the possibility of trading Haslem in some package for Ron Artest. Riley has always expressed interest in bringing Artest to the Heat.
January 20th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
D_G Says:
“Best play of the night last night . . . (I couldn’t watch the whole game, and b/c I don’t live locally I watched the Dallas telecast, so I might have missed something better)
D. West drives to the basket and dishes it to (well I forget who) for an easy jam.
Shouldn’t I expect to see that a bit more often? I gotta admit upfront, I have never played (I was on the wrestling team through high school and college) . . . but isn’t that the type of thing that a coach draws up and the team works on executing: drive and dish. Or does it just happen? ”
Absolutely coaches draw up plays to allow penetration and passing. Slashing type players draw the defense and create opportunities to score or get fouled. Teams that rely only on the long shot or post up tend to live and die with their shooting.
Big problem with the Sonics related to this is that Seattle does not have the 3 point weapon in their arsenal, and only average at best (probably much worse in reality) at posting up. This only leaves the quick hit fast break, which they did pretty well early in the season, and mid range jumpers that we see all the W’s and KD taking. More slash and kickout would be a welcome change for this team.
January 20th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
James B. Says:
“I agree as far as Wally goes, but, I think they’re just waiting for his contract to expire anyway. There’s no way in bleep Presti gives Wally another contract; he’s a lame duck who happens to have some shooting skills. We need veterans who can actually teach our young guys how to win if we bring people in with experience. Otherwise, we go through a period of the blind leading the blind for much longer than Portland did before they became successful.”
If Presti’s strategy is to have cap room soon, he will use Wally’s large contract as trade bait in the offseason. The fact that Wally has proven he can still play is a huge benefit in trying to trade him. Strange how overpaid guys can be more valuable than lesser paid guys but that is the modern league. As far as letting Wally’s contract expire, that will make sense if Presti is waiting another year to clear major cap space. By then he could clear a tremendous amount through trades and expiring contracts. Also he can draft high both in 08 and 09. Sure will suck to wait around watching for that though because it means another whole year after this one of terrible play.
January 20th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Alex, I agree regarding the Heat/Riley’s preference for a frontcourt player in the draft. A pass-first PG does them no good with Shaq almost done.
January 20th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Yeah, the only teams that might be willing to trade for Wally would be a team that desperately needs a shooter with a 1-2 year window to win rings…unless there’s some way to get rid of him and let him resign with another team for less $ like what happened with Steve Francis in Houston. Wally has some desire to win, but, I don’t think he really teaches our young players much about what it takes to win in the league. I’d rather trade for another shooter who is younger, cheaper, and less utilized on another team like Francisco Garcia of Sacramento.
January 20th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Here’s a trade that we all could hope for if the Sacramento GM was stoned out of his mind:
Brad Miller and Francisco Garcia (Sacramento) for Wally Szcerbiak.
The only way that Sacramento would do this would be if they thought that Spencer Hawes was ready to contribute right away, making Miller expendable. He’s an older player, but, I think he could teach the young guys more about winning, and he’s worth the $ much more than Wally. IMO any GM would have to be somewhat stoned to want to trade for Wally’s contract; Wally is a one-dimensional player who is overpaid.
January 20th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
If Minnesota drafts first, I’d think that McHale would either want a PG like Rose to create for Jefferson, or a scorer like Beasley, or perhaps a SG like Gordon.
If Miami drafts second and Beasley is there, he should be the choice - unless another PF or C steps forward.
That leaves Seattle perhaps with a choice among Rose, Gordon, Mayo, DeAndre Jordan, Love, etc.
January 20th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
It seems like a pretty deep draft. It’s nice to know that even if the ping pong balls don’t bounce our way and we don’t end up with a stellar point guard, we could get Love. I think that Mayo and Love both have NBA-ready physiques that could really help out a team in the long run. Lots of good talent to choose from as much as I hate talking about the draft in January.
January 20th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
The only concern I see from the Timberwolves drafting Derrick Rose is that their backcourt of the future of Foye/Rose would be fairly short.
I would take Gordon if the Sonics were unable to land either of the first two picks. But I suspect Presti would prefer either Bayless or Jordan ahead of Gordon. I cannot see Presti going with Love unless the Sonics trade down. Since they traded away Malik Rose, I don’t remember the Spurs utilizing any undersized post players during the last four years.
January 20th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
Anthony King, you would have to include Delonte West in the same category with Durant and Green in terms of turnover-prone players. West is actually worst than both guys in terms of turnovers per 48 minutes. At least Durant and Green have the “rookie” excuse; West is just clueless.
January 20th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
I had high hopes for West this year, but alas - it’s not to be.
As Hubie Brown would say: “first of all, you have to understand he’s left-handed, okay? But the problem is, he also has a right hand - he just doesn’t know how to use it. He can’t go right!”
January 20th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
“At least Durant and Green have the “rookie” excuse; West is just clueless.”–Alex Chan
Exactly. I would add Watson to the list of turnover-prone players too. If a point guard is going to try to pass instead of shoot once he’s jumped into the air, he better be damn good like Steve Nash. Otherwise, it’s just a turnover waiting to happen. John Wooden taught his pointguards never to do that, but, aparently Watson attended UCLA during a later era. Watching Watson and Delonte do things like that or lose the ball while dribbling into traffic is just painful.
January 20th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Until Presti makes the next strategic moves I think I’m going to try to ease up and just watch the games and enjoy the parts that can be enjoyed. They’ll probably surprise in good ways here and there. Good luck to the players and coaches in the second half of season. Use it as best you can.
January 20th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
AK1984 said: “Everyone here should realize that Kevin Durant and Jeff Green are more prone to committing turnovers than Earl Watson.”
At least Durant and Green aren’t point guards (i.e. players who are expected to protect the ball).
From SG to C, a couple of turnovers are tolerated. From the PG, not so much.
January 20th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Saw Presti at the texas a&m vs k-state game yesterday. Hope he took note of DeAndre Jordan’s clumsy footwork and general lack of awareness. He is the last thing we need; almost as much of a project as Sene. Assuming we don’t get a top 2 pick, I’ll be rooting for eric gordon.
January 20th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Things that could happen that would be fun:
A fairly healthy Robert Swift making a solid return
One or more guys given a shot at the dream on a 10 day contract
Green getting in the 3 pt groove
Collison busting out some more jams
(or Luke, as somebody challenged him somewhere)
Durant (& hopefully Green) in rookie/soph game
Sene making some blocks and starting to feel good and playing with better instincts (and less thinking or fear) and his teammates cheering him
Gelabale being assertive
PJ finding a few more plays or lineups that work and clapping, nodding approval. Walking off the court proud.
Team deciding to be a pack of attack underdogs, giving playoff teams unexpected grief.
And so on.
January 20th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
Or…
Durant with a game winning block or steal.
Green with a game winning pass or clutch free throws.
Petro getting into wild eyed aggressive defensive posture and playing 30 minutes and banging it out and holding some starter well under their average.
The team putting it to the Blazers in February.
(Or the Lakers or Spurs or whoever.)
Lots of good things are possible, if the shake the funk and ball.
January 20th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
make that if “they” do that.
Number of wins not that important now but a good fighting attitude would be see again and carry over into future.
January 20th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
I vote also for Durant hanging 50 on someone in a blowout win (for us, of course).
January 20th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
To be perfectly honest, I think Presti really needs to pull off a trade before the deadline. Preferably someone who thought they were safe. Anything that shakes this team into action would be a good thing.
January 20th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
Dear greater Seattle area,
I’ve been a die hard Seattle SuperSonics fan from So-Cal since ‘91. My brother, who lives in Bothell, attends every SoS “gathering” and he said, “it’s pathetic”. You idiots in Seattle..You aren’t even supporting your team. If the SuperSonics move? It’s all your faults.
You have some no heart, no passion, fallower’s, that are failing to keep the SuperSonics in Seattle. Somebody needs to say something. So here we go…
You hippie wierdo’s up in the NW. Get up out of your drum circle,put the bong down and get up and support your team.
Goddamn.
PS. You Forest Mongrel coffee fanatic’s do something.
January 20th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
TRADES…………….
If the Sonics make a trade in Feb. it will most likely involve either Wilcox or KT. Why?
1. wilcox would have some interest & value artound the league - still pretty young and he has 1 year left on his contract for 6.5 million next season. He’d be a low risk investment for someone.
2. KT could help a playoff team make a push this year - AND - His 9 million salary expires after this season.
3. All the other sonics have issues - mainly contracts that have them overpaid relative to their skills.
4. Also - D. West could be easy to deal if the soncis want as his contract is cheap & short.
I think it will be VERY tough to trade either Luke or EW or Wally & I just can’t imagine anyone really wanting any of our other guys.
I think it will be time to wait until June - go through another draft & see who we get & hope Presti can make some moves with Wally & Wilcox’s expiring contracts. They should be easy to deal next June. Even Luke & EW - while overpaid - will have only 2 years left on their deals so they will be easier to deal at that point.
I hear all the ideas of a trade with Miami for guys with expiring contracts. I’d go for it if I’m Presti but i just can’t see the HEAT going that direction. They suck - are NOT going to make the playoffs. IMO, I just dont’ think they are dumb enough to take on some of our guys for current Heat players with expiring contracts.
January 20th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
I think you are right about the likelihood of the Heat trading their expiring contracts for Wally and Earl. I’d also just let the $15 million in contracts for Davis and Williams expire too if I were Riley. Ron Artest will likely exercise his right to become a free agent this season. There has been mutual interest between the Artest and Riley in the past. Regardless of whether adding Artest would actually make the Heat championship contenders, taking on the contracts of Wally and Earl would eliminate any chance that the Heat have of signing Artest.
January 20th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
GMoney…..
Maybe try putting your own bong down… come down off your high…. get sober and write something intelligent.
January 20th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
gmoney=idiot okie
January 20th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
“You Forest Mongrel coffee fanatic’s do something.”
I like this one better than,
“Home of the disturbing fringe element.”
January 20th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
I think it was Presti whom said the plan was to build around all six foot ten guys, if possible. Durant, Green and Collison seem to fit the Presti vision.
The Sonics seem physically and mentally exhausted and the all-star break should provide some semblence of a vacation for the youngstas. Wally needs to remain fresh for his impending playoff run with the Mavs or somebody else. The Mavs looked a lot more explosive due to proper rest, a different weight lifting program or perhaps their Zen Master is better than the Sonic’s leaders. Many variables are contributing to their lack or effort, beginning with a lack of proper authoritative control.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
I see a few Sonic players sporting a selfish attitude and they need to be traded or waived, imo. Noel just got sent to the developmental league and his effort is more inspirational to witness than most of the guys on the current squad. Like I’ve said, Payton could whip these boys into shape as a mentor, as he has a fighting spirit greater than anybody on the current roster. I just want to watch an organized and passionate team-oriented game. Please trade or waive the guys who don’t bleed Sonic Green.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
“My brother, who lives in Bothell, attends every SoS “gathering” and he said, “it’s pathetic”. You idiots in Seattle..You aren’t even supporting your team. If the SuperSonics move? It’s all your faults.”–GMoney
Well, GMoney…isn’t it convenient that you are a “die hard” fan, but, you happen to live in SoCal. So, because you don’t live here anymore you don’t have to be part of the solution of keeping the team in town now do you?? That’s okay, we don’t need your dirty GMoney anyhow.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
“1. wilcox would have some interest & value artound the league - still pretty young and he has 1 year left on his contract for 6.5 million next season. He’d be a low risk investment for someone.”–JJ
I’m not really a Wilcox fan, and I’m not sure he’s the longterm solutin at the 5 position, but, if we trade him we better get someone capable of scoring in double figures. Right now, KD is our only starter who averages more than 10 pts per game. It’s pretty pathetic.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
Yes - some of the recent games have involved disappointing “Effort” & “Hustle” & “Passion” etc. BUT…. the talent level on this team in also just plain bad - I mean real bad. Add to that a new coach who has not done well in previous head coaching gigs and having your top player a 19 year old rookie - and you’ve got problems.
This Sonics team is looking more & more like a 16-20 win team - maybe only worse than T-Wolves.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:23 pm
James B. - On wilcox….
Yeah - but if Presti trades him he may just be looking for future draft picks or packaging Wilcox with someone like Watson to force someone else to take on Earl’s salary. We’ll see
It has been interesting to me how little Wilcox has played sine getting healthy from his finger/hand injury. He seemed to be playing well the first month of the season but has really faded. Not sure what he’s up to or what PJ’s thinking is regarding CW’s role
January 20th, 2008 at 11:23 pm
The jacking of the Sonics is disheartening, but a relocation won’t go unnoticed. I’ve been a fan of the NBA since I grew up watching Bird, Magic and Jordan. Lebron seems like the only player in present and future memory to provide the NBA with a saving grace. Bennett can have whats left of my passion for the NBA and I’ll get back to enjoying college hoops and pretending I’m a Globetrotter with people of true character. Otherwise, I’ll support Seattle and their Sonics until the dirty businessmen rats get back to where they came from. They can steal the Sonics, but they will never have my joy.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
“There has been mutual interest between the Artest and Riley in the past. Regardless of whether adding Artest would actually make the Heat championship contenders, taking on the contracts of Wally and Earl would eliminate any chance that the Heat have of signing Artest.”
Your wrong on this one.
No matter if the Heat decide to trade for Wally and Earl or just let Davis and Williams expire, they won’t be enough under the cap(thanks to the contracts of Shaq, Wade, Haslem, Blount and their pick) to offer any free agent more then the MLE.
So a reason behind them doing a trade like this, is Wally’s deal, which will be an expiring starting this summer and therefore really attractive around the league. If you couple this with their pick(on draft day) or something else, you could net yourself a really good player.
Also, if they don’t trade Davis and/or Williams, they’ll have two more roster spots to fill with just the MLE, LLE and veterans exceptions on their hands.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
Gordon, Rose or Mayo could be nice additions to the Sonics and their defeated mentalities. The NBA seems to be distancing itself from the people, which is a dire mistake. I could see the Sonics relocating, a foreign team being introduced like China or something, leading the NBA to become known as the IBA, International Basketball Association. This type of evolution for the league will lead others and myself to get over the love once shared for the NBA. Just food for thought from a little person.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
Being frustrated is common. Being angry is not unusual.
Namecalling doesnt accomplish much. But greater Seattle has been rebuked yet again. Not that those opposed to a new arena or to the Sonics themselves are going to change their view because of it.
Those who have expressed support for keeping the team here and done stuff deserve no rebuke.
But are there more positive things that could be done now or in near future? Yeah probably.
If the Mayor and Deputy Mayor do not reveal their arena proposal immediately I think people could write the City Councilperson who represents them and ask them to seek a status report from the Mayor about what is being done and when the proposal is actually going to come out. Maybe Finance Chairman Richard McIver would be a good contact as well or even point person for such a request- I assume his committee would play some role in the consideration of the financing proposal. It is time to know the city’s proposal.
The lawsuit is the main theater of action right now but the expectation is that the Board of Governors will meet and perhaps vote on a relocation request in not too distant future. I assume there is some background research and planning already underway. It might be useful for folks to hear more about that process and if it allows public comment to be considered and if that is being organized or how someone can get involved with that. Will the BOG allow any in-person presentations by representatives of the affected public? If so I assume SOS will take the opportunity and the lead. If the public will not be allowed to be heard that would generate the question why not? Perhaps an inquiry could be filed if the answer to the question is uncertain.
If the answer is no then perhaps a letter writing campaign could be mounted to highlight and protest that.
I assume some sort of public expression of support for keeping the team will be organized nearer the vote. But SOS representatives will speak to their plans and on their timetable.
At the moment it doesn’t seem like city is moving toward a big push of the financing proposal thru this legislature but who knows what the strategy is until revealed. If they do make such an attempt folks who support the plan can of course write legislators and the Governor and use opportunities in the media to support it. If the city fails to make a decent effort folks can let them hear about it in a variety of ways.
There has been a lull while the powerbrokers maneuver but there should be opportunities to speak up constructively. Take advantage of them as you see fit.
January 21st, 2008 at 12:14 am
“There has been mutual interest between the Artest and Riley in the past. Regardless of whether adding Artest would actually make the Heat championship contenders, taking on the contracts of Wally and Earl would eliminate any chance that the Heat have of signing Artest. Your wrong on this one.”
Silvio, what part of that statement is wrong? The statement was that trading Davis and Williams for Wally and Earl would eliminate any possibiity of signing Artest. I didn’t say that the only thing the Heat would have to do to sign Artest is to let the contracts of Davis and Williams expire. The Heat would obviously have to trade Haslem for an expiring contract before the trade deadlne, in addition to letting the contracts of Davis and Williams expire at the end of the season, to have any chance of signng Artest in the offseason.
January 21st, 2008 at 12:16 am
Very articulate post there, Crow.
I’d expect nothing less from you.
January 21st, 2008 at 12:48 am
“Namecalling doesn’t accomplish much.”–Crow
Agreed. I just have a problem with the idea that a “die hard” fan who has left the state has no responsibility toward keeping the team in town. While I was living in CA, I still felt some responsibility and at least involve myself in letter writing activities to show my support.
I wish I shared your optimism in the process.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:26 am
All these remarks are what I expect from fallowers with no passion. These
If you guys were as half as passionate as you are when im clowing you fools, Seattle would secured the Supes.(your pathetic)
Love, The #1 Sonics Fan
Ps. Continue with your drum circle and barter fair’s. You pathetic fans.
Sorry to be mean but someone has to wake you losers up.
January 21st, 2008 at 1:36 am
You people dont think I dont try and do all I can all the way down here in fing Orange? I go to websites and get banned for spamming http://www.sos.whatever all the time. lol
Why would this effect me? Because Sonics are Seattle. Seattle is the Sonics. 40 years of history down the drain because of lazyness??!?
Please people im ranting for the love of my Seattle Super Sonics.
January 21st, 2008 at 8:28 am
Gmoney perhaps you could use you talents at diplomacy and persuasion to rally a few from So-Cal to make a statement to Jerry Buss and Donald Sterling.
Ultimately the BOG will vote. Mark Cuban’s statement indicates that there is at least one owner who is right now undecided, and even more, one owner who is willing to be persuaded by the “consensus” formed by other owners around the league.
January 21st, 2008 at 10:00 am
Gmoney Says:
January 21st, 2008 at 1:26 am
All these remarks are what I expect from fallowers with no passion. These
If you guys were as half as passionate as you are when im clowing you fools, Seattle would secured the Supes.(your pathetic)
Love, The #1 Sonics Fan
Ps. Continue with your drum circle and barter fair’s. You pathetic fans.
Sorry to be mean but someone has to wake you losers up.
The thin Ozone layer down there in Orange must be making you as stupid as those Laker fans.
If you had half a brain you’d realize that the hardcore fans on sites like this one are the ones that are actually doing something to try and keep the Sonics in Seattle. It is the bandwagon, cheer for the front runner, Seattle fans that are ignoring what’s going on with the Sonics.
For you to come to a site like this and act like your sh*t don’t stink and everyone here’s does, just goes to show how stupid you are.
January 21st, 2008 at 10:23 am
“Silvio, what part of that statement is wrong? The statement was that trading Davis and Williams for Wally and Earl would eliminate any possibiity of signing Artest. I didn’t say that the only thing the Heat would have to do to sign Artest is to let the contracts of Davis and Williams expire. The Heat would obviously have to trade Haslem for an expiring contract before the trade deadlne, in addition to letting the contracts of Davis and Williams expire at the end of the season, to have any chance of signng Artest in the offseason.”
Maybe i got wrong what you wanted to say Alex.
It’s just that it doesn’t matter if they trade for Wally and Earl or not, as the only way they can get Artest is if he accepts the MLE. If he doesn’t then no matter what they do(i don’t ever see them trading a core piece like Haslem for just an expiring), they won’t get him. At least not as long as the Kings don’t think that a Haslem for Artest swap is what they need to do.
January 21st, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Thanks courtsense.
James B., I am not particularly optimistic or pessimistic right now. But I’ll write some more as it makes sense. I’ll write McIver today (though I am not a constituent)
D_G’s idea of writing Buss and Sterling was a good idea. Fans around the country could do that nearer the vote.
Gmoney yoiu say you want to wake people up and that motivation may be alright but mainly what you did was turned a lot of people off to you by the way you said it. Your choice. It was broadbrush, quite foul, and will be ignored hereafter by me.
Schultz sold the team to out of state group.
Bennett asked for an arena outside of Seattle (and its support) for a record amount with no firm pledge of private contribution and wanting all the revenue and financed by a ridiculously expensive two sets of loans with total cost between 800million and 1 billion. It was doomed to fail or designed to fail. SOS and many fans still supported that effort as the available option.
After it failed (the choice of the politicians and their read of the general public) SOS did enough to get the city aligned to try to block the move. They kept the chance of a successful outcome alive. That was a meaningful contribution.
People spoke up for trying to keep the team. There was plenty to see and hear for those who wanted to listen. Would even more noise have changed any of that so far? I doubt it.
But it is not over. The rest of the battle remains. Judge that as it happens. Everybody does what makes sense to and fits for them.
To me the main fault is clearly with Schultz and Bennett … and the failure of the politicians to do enough to solidify a realistic alternative solution. But there they say they are working on it. We”ll see.
Fans have been more numerous and louder elsewhere in other battles but it still came down to the actions of the politicians and lawyers
to seal the deal. I don’t think it is realistic to suggest that noise alone works or worthwhile to blame the fan.
January 21st, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Letter to McIver sent. Will do more later as things develop.