1/27/08 Box Score: Sonics 101 Kings 103
Posted on Sunday, January 27th, 2008 at 11:08 pm by Big Chris
Kevin Martin - you’re killing me man. Another tough loss for the Sonics. That makes it 14 in a row. 0 for 2008. If Chris Wilcox hits his free throws we win this game. The big statistical difference is we lost in all 3 categories of shooting percentages.
At least Sam got to share his opinion with Clay Bennett.
Kevin Durant led the Sonics in scoring with 19, but again struggled going 5 for 20 from the floor. Kurt Thomas had a solid game with 15 points and 10 rebounds. Wally Szczerbiak had another solid game off the bench with 16 points.
(19-24)
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(9-35)
| Sacramento | |||||||||||||||
| Name | Min | FG | 3Pt | FT | +/- | Off | Reb | Ast | TO | Stl | BS | BA | PF | Pts | |
| K. Martin | G | 36:22 | 8-17 | 2-6 | 8-9 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 26 |
| M. Bibby | G | 29:04 | 5-11 | 2-3 | 1-2 | +2 | 0 | 3 | 6 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 13 |
| B. Miller | C | 36:47 | 4-10 | 1-1 | 4-4 | +5 | 3 | 12 | 5 | 3 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 5 | 13 |
| M. Moore | F | 38:26 | 4-7 | 0-0 | 2-2 | 0 | 1 | 6 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 4 | 10 |
| R. Artest | F | 31:07 | 3-10 | 0-2 | 4-4 | +9 | 1 | 6 | 6 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 4 | 10 |
| J. Salmons | 24:59 | 5-7 | 0-0 | 1-1 | -11 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 11 | |
| B. Udrih | 18:56 | 3-8 | 1-2 | 3-4 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 10 | |
| F. Garcia | 18:38 | 3-7 | 0-1 | 0-0 | +4 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 4 | 6 | |
| S. Hawes | 4:46 | 2-3 | 0-0 | 0-0 | +3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4 | |
| Q. Douby | 0:37 | 0-0 | 0-0 | 0-0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | |
| D. Jones | 0:15 | 0-1 | 0-1 | 0-0 | -2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | |
| J. Williams | DNP - Coach’s Decision | ||||||||||||||
| Totals | 37-81 | 6-16 | 23-26 | 6 | 36 | 25 | 15 | 7 | 8 | 4 | 26 | 103 | |||
| Percentages: | .457 | .375 | .885 | Team Rebounds: 12 |
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| Seattle | |||||||||||||||
| Name | Min | FG | 3Pt | FT | +/- | Off | Reb | Ast | TO | Stl | BS | BA | PF | Pts | |
| K. Durant |
G |
35:49 | 5-20 | 0-2 | 9-10 | +3 | 2 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 3 | 0 | 2 | 4 | 19 |
| E. Watson | G | 34:31 | 3-9 | 1-2 | 3-4 | +4 | 0 | 1 | 8 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 10 |
| K. Thomas | C | 27:42 | 5-7 | 0-0 | 5-6 | -3 | 1 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 4 | 15 |
| C. Wilcox | F | 29:34 | 4-7 | 0-0 | 3-8 | -12 | 2 | 8 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 4 | 11 |
| J. Green | F | 23:02 | 3-6 | 0-2 | 0-0 | -4 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 3 | 6 |
| W. Szczerbiak | 23:04 | 5-9 | 2-4 | 4-4 | +5 | 0 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 16 | |
| N. Collison | 20:57 | 2-3 | 0-0 | 1-2 | +6 | 5 | 9 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 5 | |
| J. Petro | 16:14 | 4-7 | 0-0 | 1-2 | -1 | 3 | 6 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 9 | |
| D. Wilkins | 15:36 | 3-7 | 1-2 | 2-2 | -2 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 9 | |
| L. Ridnour | 13:29 | 0-6 | 0-1 | 1-1 | -6 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 1 | |
| M. Gelabale | DNP - Coach’s Decision | ||||||||||||||
| D. West | DNP - Coach’s Decision | ||||||||||||||
| Totals | 34-81 | 4-13 | 29-39 | 15 | 45 | 25 | 13 | 8 | 4 | 8 | 25 | 101 | |||
| Percentages: | .420 | .308 | .744 | Team Rebounds: 11 |
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| Game Info |
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Technical Fouls: None Attendance: 13,409 Officials: Brian Forte, Eddie F. Rush, Marc Davis |
January 27th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
Wilcox broke his magical +/- trend tonight, he’s got -12, the worst on the whole team.
Save for the 2 fouls, Petro did pretty well tonight with 9 and 6 in 16 mins. Double his minutes to 32, and he’s 18 and 12. Well… maybe.
But I do think he’s showing more promise these days.
Save for Durant, the Sonics looked really good on turnovers tonight. Durant had a pretty crappy night IMO with 5 turns, 4 PFs and shooting just 25% from the field.
January 28th, 2008 at 12:34 am
this was interesting: Sherman Alexie on Kevin Durant gets on Henry Abbott’s True Hoop blog:
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-29-88/Sherman-Alexie–Watching-Kevin-Durant.html
I can’t disagree with what he’s saying. Let’s hope Durant evolves to be much tougher and more well-rounded.
January 28th, 2008 at 1:05 am
espn.com Daily Dime has Luke as “Sunday’s Worst”:
“Sunday’s Worst
Luke Ridnour, Sonics guard: Misses all six shots in his 14 minutes of action. That didn’t help matters in a 103-101 home loss to the Kings, the Sonics’ 14th straight loss”
January 28th, 2008 at 1:18 am
Thanks for the article speed.
Basically summed up my thoughts on him always avoiding contact. I’m just hoping he doesn’t want to risk injury because he’s had to play on a bum ankle most of the season so far. If he’s avoiding contact because he’s soft, then this could mean disaster for this organization.
January 28th, 2008 at 1:26 am
I will give the kid a lot of benefit of the doubt and a long time to get hardened up for the NBA. He’s only 19, a rook. But yeah, if he stays soft we’re in for a very major disappointment.
Here’s a really funny post from ESPN.com’s Sonic forum, from a “Sign Shawn Kemp” thread:
“Freak show is PRECISELY what where looking for. Look at Dennis Rodman. This dude did wonders for the Bulls (outside of Jordan, Pipen)because he was a walking manic-depressive freak show. A lot of fans saw this dude play for reasons outside of an sort of athletic ability, just like we all enjoy watching miget fights. ”
“Let’s sign Kemp and Rodman! That would be awesome. I would definitely start going to games again. No joke. Maybe we could talk Latrell Sprewell out of retirement while we’re at it. I would love to see him and P.J. reunited. Our games would get better television ratings than the Celtics.”
January 28th, 2008 at 2:00 am
I think it was Crow that made a good point about Durant not playing a lot of streetball that could be the reason why he shys away from contact. Sure that avoidance has helped with fundamentals and the practice of good habit, but in NBA if he never learns to trade blows with other physical players he might never be the great scorer and rebounder we all thought he might be. Maybe he’ll just be content as a jumpshooting wing player such as Vince Carter. *shrug*
I don’t know, maybe I’m thinking way too much into this. Afterall, I’ve been down on him like this before and he’s proven me wrong with spectacular games.
January 28th, 2008 at 2:14 am
Is Manute Bol or Gheorghe Mureşan still around and playing ball!?!?! Maybe we could sign one of them to a ten-day contract after the break!?
……..
January 28th, 2008 at 2:29 am
Signing Kemp to a ten-day contract and GP’s leadership could help provide the Sonic’s with much needed leadership, craziness or just plain comical entertainment….too bad the man wouldn’t allow for such pleasure.
January 28th, 2008 at 2:42 am
I only caught the last of the game and the post-game show where some accountability was served to the player most responsible for the defensive breakdown on Martin’s game winner…atleast Ewing Jr. is looking like a nice center prospect.
January 28th, 2008 at 2:47 am
“Sure that avoidance has helped with fundamentals and the practice of good habit, but in NBA if [Kevin Durant] never learns to trade blows with other physical players he might never be the great scorer and rebounder we all thought he might be. Maybe he’ll just be content as a jumpshooting wing player such as Vince Carter. *shrug*” {ajw}
Vince Carter is an athletic marvel, while Kevin Durant is just a mediocre athlete. Prior to Carter’s change in style and apathy toward playing his hardest, he was a high-flyin’ sensation — as well as an all-around superstar — who drove to the basket with a mixture of pure grace and tenacious force. Durant, however, will never possess that ability. I still laugh at the thought that people actually compared Durant to Kevin Garnett with a straight face at one point, since the high volume shooting wing player clearly resembled Tracy McGrady.
Also, we all didn’t think that Durant would be an efficient scorer, proficient rebounder, and effective defensive player. After watching this soft, overrated chucker a few times when he played for the Texas Longhorns last season, Durant’s selfish demeanor was blatantly obvious to me. Again, Greg Oden was the only franchise cornerstone available in the 2007 NBA Draft. As far as I’m concerned, I definitely deserve props for correctly predicting Durant’s struggles—especially since I get a lot of flack from homers around here.
“I don’t know, maybe I’m thinking way too much into this. Afterall, I’ve been down on him like this before and he’s proven me wrong with spectacular games. {ajw}
One spectacular game doesn’t make a player.
“Save for the 2 fouls, Petro did pretty well tonight with 9 and 6 in 16 mins. Double his minutes to 32, and he’s 18 and 12. Well… maybe. But I do think he’s showing more promise these days.” {speedcat}
Despite a few solid performances, Johan Petro is still a 7′0″ tall power forward who plays with his face to the basket on offense; plus, his low basketball IQ gives him trouble with positioning and rotations on defense. Petro has also yet to fully grasp the concept of boxing out his opponents for rebounds, too, which doesn’t bode well for him. Petro’s closest comparison continues to be Brad Sellers, with his upside being that of Mark Blount; that doesn’t interest me in the long haul.
January 28th, 2008 at 3:09 am
What is Bill Russell doing being seen with Bennett so much? I mean I understand Clay doesn’t have many friends in the area, but it makes Russell look REAL bad to me…
January 28th, 2008 at 3:11 am
“Signing Kemp to a ten-day contract and GP’s leadership could help provide the Sonic’s with much needed leadership, craziness or just plain comical entertainment….too bad the man wouldn’t allow for such pleasure.” {phenom}
Look, Gary Payton’s leadership consists of his own arrogant self-interests. Anyhow, my idea of trading Earl Watson and Damien Wilkins to the Miami Heat for James Posey and Gary Payton — along with signing Shawn Kemp to a ten-day contract in lieu of Andre Brown — should’ve been brought to fruition near the tail-end of last season. For a couple of months during a chaotic campaign, Kemp and Payton would’ve earned their keep by putting some asses in the seats. At this moment in time, however, the thought of bringing in Payton and Kemp has gone by the wayside.
“atleast Ewing Jr. is looking like a nice center prospect.” {phenom}
At 6′8″ & 240lbs., Patrick Ewing, Jr. is a backup power forward for the Georgetown Hoyas — as DaJaun Summers is the starter for that team — who’s a non-prospect at the professional level.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/players/33935
Ewing, Jr. will never play in the NBA.
January 28th, 2008 at 3:15 am
I see flashes of Durant’s physical dominance and even Kobe said Durant is the longest player he’s ever seen (freudian slip not intended). Look at players like Barry Bonds and Michael Jordan and how their bodies “naturally” grew much stronger. Durant could be the Sonic’s power-forward of the future with fifty pounds of muscle on his frame. Durant has a 19 year old’s body and is expected to play a shooting guard’s style game while he grows into manhood. Durant and Green have shown the ability to score efficently on the block when their confidence is strong.
January 28th, 2008 at 3:19 am
Isn’t Russell the guy who is trying to persuade Bennett to keep the Sonics in the area? Maybe Russell is trying to bring the man back to the light….perhaps Bill is a strong force in keeping the Sonics around.
January 28th, 2008 at 4:27 am
Actually, Durant played a streetball game that was recorded via video, and u can see highlights intertwined into some of his youtube videos. It may still be a legit point that was made, but from the player/fan reaction at that streetball game, and from the highlights as well, it seemed KD held his own pretty well.
Phenom-I was thinking the same about Russell earlier in that relationship(they seem to have), but now I kinda wonder what it’s really about…
January 28th, 2008 at 8:22 am
Remember Steve and Brian? I am kind of starting to miss those guys. You lurkers! Check out Theil, he’s gonna set you guys free! Off the hook with the blog faithful.
Thiel writes stuff I have been writing here and on my blog for a few months, only he isn’t speculating as much since he knows people that don’t speak publicly, and he is able to be public about their behind the scenes activity.
Last updated January 27, 2008 10:45 p.m. PT
Sonics are awful — and possibly staying put?
By ART THIEL
P-I COLUMNIST
More likely, StudentSonics owner Clay Bennett no longer tolerates losses in the wallet as well the courts of law and basketball. He sells to a local ownership group, taking his proceeds to buy the Hornets for less than the $350 million paid for the Sonics in 2006 and move them to his Oklahoma City hometown (Shinn and Bennett could be forgiven the relocation fee).
No knowledgeable person will talk about the scenario on the record, much less suggest it will happen; no one wants to add to New Orleans’ misery. But the movers and shakers in Seattle, New Orleans, Oklahoma City and New York know the path is there. The escape clause wouldn’t have been created and accepted if the need for an out wasn’t dramatic.
The NBA legitimately can say that it tried in New Orleans. It also wants to stay in Seattle, and wants to reward Bennett and Oklahoma City (not Shinn) for being good NBA citizens after Katrina.
An arena solution still is needed here. Discussions have taken place, but action awaits a favorable court ruling and Bennett’s willingness to be a hometown hero in a different way.
Even then, the process of keeping the franchise will be a slog. Nothing is guaranteed. The ordeal seems infinite, and an outcome isn’t predictable.
But just because nothing is happening on the court doesn’t mean that nothing is happening.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/thiel/348989_thiel28.html
January 27, 2008
Art Thiel gives you his version of my theory that Bennett will trade down with the Hornets
SEATTLE - Art Thiel of the Seattle PI spells out the trading down Clay Bennett would be wise to do if he really wants a return on his investment. I have been saying this for a few months, it is a clear path to the fans, and those hoping to get their money, in all three cities getting what they want. Seattle keeps its Sonics, Oklahoma City gets the team they rooted for over two seasons, New Orleans get to focus on chearing for the team they love, the Saints.
Shinn can not afford to stay and only the NBA can say where he can go. Thiel does say people involved with all three cities are talking behind the scenes, all we need is an arena plan, that is all we have needed for the past 3 years.
Read the Thiel story here. Or read my blog posts from December.
Have a great day,
Mr Baker
http://theseattlesupersonics.blogspot.com/2008/01/art-thiel-gives-you-his-version-of-my.html
December 31, 2007
Oklahoma City may improve arena to lure Sonics
This is good news for George Shin and his Hornets. When New Orleans picks between public money going to the Saints or the Hornets (word is it isn’t both, and it isn’t the Hornets) then there will be a remodeled arena and new practice facility waiting in Oklahoma City for when the Hornets return.
http://theseattlesupersonics.blogspot.com/2007/12/oklahoma-city-may-improve-arena-to-lure.html
December 06, 2007
So obvious, even an idiot can see it - NBA- msnbc.com
http://theseattlesupersonics.blogspot.com/2007/12/so-obvious-even-idiot-can-see-it-nba.html
January 28th, 2008 at 8:24 am
hey, absent a daily from “too good for us” Steve (I taunt cause I care, and I can) could somebody bust loose my posting stuck in moderation?
thanks.
January 28th, 2008 at 8:29 am
January 27, 2008
Art Thiel gives you his version of my theory that Bennett will trade down with the Hornets
SEATTLE - Art Thiel of the Seattle PI spells out the trading down Clay Bennett would be wise to do if he really wants a return on his investment.
http://theseattlesupersonics.blogspot.com/
January 28th, 2008 at 8:34 am
Mo Sene has another good game in a tight win. I know, I know, who cares, but it is more interesting than the Sonics right now.
http://www.nba.com/dleague/games/20080126/LADIDA/boxscore.html
January 28th, 2008 at 8:40 am
I think the guy Sam that shared is “opinion” with Clay Bennett is kind of an idiot. All is does is make Sonic fans look like they have no class. This is a childish thing to do and I don’t understand why everyone thinks it is so great!!!
January 28th, 2008 at 9:18 am
“I think the guy Sam that shared is “opinion” with Clay Bennett is kind of an idiot. All is does is make Sonic fans look like they have no class. This is a childish thing to do and I don’t understand why everyone thinks it is so great!!!” {Sonicsman}
I actually don’t completely abhor Clay Bennett, as it’s tough to fault the guy’s whole objective of relocating a professional sports franchise to his hometown of Oklahoma City. In all honesty, I somewhat empathize with his self-serving desires.
If I were to hypothetically purchase the Calgary Flames from its current ownership group, then my intent would be to move the organization to Seattle — as it would fill this area’s need for an NHL team — however, I’m sure that most folks up in Alberta would rightfully hate my motherfucking guts in that case. Admittedly, my style would be more overt and less underhanded than Bennett’s sleazy modus operandi. I, unlike that Okie carpetbagger, would be forthright about my objective from the get-go and hell-bent on accomplishing it.
Anyhow, that notwithstanding, I’ve got no qualms with people being crass and vulgar toward anyone—which definitely includes Bennett. As a libertarian minarchist politically and an individualist philosophically, one of my core beliefs is that people have the right to say whatever they want — and, moreover, act in any way that suits them — so long as nobody is physically harmed during the process.
Besides, “class” is a subjective term; nobody can tangibly define it. Hell, in all reality, Sam K’s manner of expressing himself in that situation — and, for that matter, Bennett’s supposed response — won’t have any positive or negative ramifications. All things considered, everyone will most likely forget about it by next week.
January 28th, 2008 at 9:20 am
Because every sonic fan wants to say face to face to Clay “You’re stealing my team!”
At the end of the day what is Clay going to do, alert the presses that seattle fans don’t like him?! that’ll sell papers…
At least telling him how we feel (and maybe more importantly having Bill Russel back there hear it) will throw in that human factor for what its worth.
January 28th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Voice your frustrations at the State and the City who have been a big cause of this problem. Bennett is just a guy who saw an oppt. and took it. He just wants a team in his hometown. Even if Bennett sells we still have an arena problem! If we go after Bennett the NBA will say that he is treated badly by Seattle and they will let him take his team and leave for a friendly city!! We have to think before we speak or we only hurt the cause!
January 28th, 2008 at 10:02 am
About 3 weeks left to the trading deadline. I expect to see Wally, Wilkins and Kurt Thomas shipped for several #1 picks. If the Sonics management want a team that sucks for the next couple of years, there should be a bunch of prospects playing with some hope of developing into a solid core.
It seems to me the entire season has been wasted so far, doing little more than providing an extended training camp for Durant and Green. Nobody else who needs development has progressed. I would have felt a lot better if there were another 4 or 5 prospects undergoing development - and I don’t mean Sene and Petro. While I do not blame management for Swift’s rapid breakdown, every choice made this last year has led to the debacle the Sonics are now suffering.
I also blame management for botching the development of Durant. Before the season began, I was on record as saying that making a rookie the first option on offense would be a mistake, that Durant would develop better without the pressure. That he continues to have such an awful shot selection shows that PJ is an awful coach (which is confirmed by the awful win-loss record).
January 28th, 2008 at 10:18 am
“Voice your frustrations at the State and the City who have been a big cause of this problem. Bennett is just a guy who saw an oppt. and took it. He just wants a team in his hometown. Even if Bennett sells we still have an arena problem! If we go after Bennett the NBA will say that he is treated badly by Seattle and they will let him take his team and leave for a friendly city!! We have to think before we speak or we only hurt the cause!”
Just stop talking. This is why we are viewed as such big losers in the arena of “fan-dom”. What Sam did was throw a little fight into the mix. More people should do it. It doesn’t show a lack of class, it shows how much we the fans want this team here. It also shows how much of a liar that Clay Bennett is, and what lack of respect he has for people. His responses to Sam show just how much of an inconsiderate, unwholesome individual that he is. And then to remove someone for merely voicing your their opinion and verbally confronting you? Where are all you crackpot Seattle liberals that should be SO up in arms about supressing the freedom of speech merely because you don’t like what someone says? Good for you Sam…as long as you are not dropping expletives like bombs over Baghdad, I see nothing wrong with what you did. Time to fight harder people, what more can I say? And once again, for all you folks who are down on Durant….show me how many guys can 5-20 and still put up 19. If he goes 10-20 he is going to put up 40+. I still believe in a few years he’ll average 35+ a game.
Oh and AK…I really don’t respect or care at all for your opinion, so please don’t respond. You are wasting my time and space on this message board…again, you have a right to your opinion….but you have a responsibility not to spew the same garbage over and over again. A physician never used poison to heal the sick.
January 28th, 2008 at 10:35 am
I know Durant is the team’s goldenboy but does he have to take every last shot of every quarter/half/game? At the end of every quarter/half/game PJ sets up the offense to clear out for Durant. Typically he is double teamed and can’t make a good shot or he just misses. To top it off he’s only shooting 35 percent from the field and 19 percent from 3-point, during the current losing streak. I’m just sick of watching the end of the games coming down to Durnant taking an ill-advised shot.
Last night it was unbelievable that they let Wilkins take the last shot. Considering how poorly is shooting, guys like Wilkins and Wally should be given more opportunities to take the big shots.
And lastly, PJ sucks.
January 28th, 2008 at 10:52 am
“Oh and AK…I really don’t respect or care at all for your opinion, so please don’t respond. You are wasting my time and space on this message board…again, you have a right to your opinion….but you have a responsibility not to spew the same garbage over and over again.” {Joshu@}
First and foremost, I’m going to respond regardless of whether or not you give a shit about my opinion. I never voice my feelings to appease the wishes of oversensitive complainers, but rather to express myself in a blunt, straightforward manner—and that’s that.
“A physician never used poison to heal the sick.” {Joshu@}
The problem here is that you’re afflicted with a terminal illness known as blinded homerism. Unfortunately for you, there’s no known cure for that disease.
In all seriousness, though, I actually feel your pain. Prior to the 2006 NBA Draft, I predicted that Shelden Williams would be a dominant defender in the NBA. Unlike you, however, I concede my mistakes. Until you remove those rose-colored glasses — or, in this case, a pair of green-’n'-gold spectacles — your ramblings about Kevin Durant is just a bunch of mindless blather.
Anyhow, you’ve always got the right to skip over any message of mine on here. Hell, nobody is slamming your face against the monitor and forcing you to read every goddamn word of my posts.
“And once again, for all you folks who are down on Durant….show me how many guys can 5-20 and still put up 19. If he goes 10-20 he is going to put up 40+. I still believe in a few years he’ll average 35+ a game.” {Joshu@}
If Kevin Durant miraculously reaches your astronomic expectations — which are humorously based on nothing of real substance — then I’ll give you credit for it. I’m not holding my breath, though.
January 28th, 2008 at 10:55 am
Rock, sorry to burst your expectations, but “Wally, Wilkens, and Thomas” are not going to fetch Seattle “several” #1 picks( by that I assume you mean first round picks, not actual #1’s) at the trade deadline. At the very best Presti might squeeze the Lakers pick and Kwame Brown for Thomas. Or the Warriors may be desperate enough to go deeper into the playoffs and throw away their pick and the TPE they hold from the Richardson deal in return for Thomas and the Suns pick, thus making it Thomas in return for moving up 8 or 9 spots in the draft from where the Suns pick sits. But both of these are optimistic on my part.
And AK1984, I may disagree with you on Petro’s potential, but I’m glad someone else besides me thinks Petro is more of a power forward than a center. And with both Swift and Sene still in the Sonics organization I think they should be developing Petro as such. You’re correct about how he doesn’t have the IQ to grasp the positional requirements of playing center. But with his athleticism and quickness he just might be able to grasp the more fluid, face up style of power forward play where a little more freelancing is allowed. The guy can hit a jumpshot when he moves to the elbow. And if he could be given the ball a little higher than he would if he were a center then with his length and quickness it wouldn’t take more than two steps to drive to the rim( he probably would get stripped of the ball on more than one occasion mind you).
January 28th, 2008 at 11:13 am
All those bitching about Durant not being a cornerstone will get another chance through the draft, as Derrick Rose will likely be there, or Mike Beasley (who can play the 4).
January 28th, 2008 at 11:28 am
AKDan??
Is AK1984 sprouting offspring?
January 28th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Speaking of AK1984 . . . I have to second what you said above:
I was blown away by the suggestion that we draft a guy (Ewing) who can’t break into the starting rotation in his fifth year in college. Perhaps the other teams might let us put Sene, Petro, Swift and Ewing at center on the floor at the same time. It might make the game more “sporting”.
January 28th, 2008 at 11:34 am
I agree that what I did was totally classless. I was planning on leaving him alone after my initial “thief” comment, but when he blew me a kiss I just couldn’t hold back my emotions. At least now he can’t say that no one in Seattle cares.
January 28th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Finally, although I note that my previous two dumb#ss remarks are in moderation:
To Mr. Baker . . . why can’t we use our airplane banner fund, and just apply it directly to outright purchase the Hornets?
We’ve already raised in the neighborhood of 2K . . . I’m not an accountant, so I’m not sure how much more there is to go.
January 28th, 2008 at 11:39 am
New Orleans attendance through the 23rd. AVG 12,222
http://www.sportsnetwork.com/
I’ve been harping on this before the lease renegotiation. Memphis and New Orleans where mistakes. The NBA cannot afford another relocation mistake. It hurts every owner and their bottom line. Mark Cuban is not going to vote for relocation because if it doesn’t make sense for the league. The Sonics moving makes no sense for the league.
By the way could we please win a close game…..any game!?!?!
THE PAIN THE PAIN
January 28th, 2008 at 11:55 am
Joshu@ Says:
but you have a responsibility not to spew the same garbage over and over again.
Your insistence that Durant will be great because he can score 19 points on 20 shots comes off as garbage as well.
January 28th, 2008 at 11:57 am
Hey AK, since you like to tout yourself - let me remind you that when I proposed to trade the #2 pick for Andrew Bynum before the draft last year you denounced it as inane. (I think the Lakers could have then used that #2 pick to get KG from Minny.). Alas, it is too late now for such a trade.
January 28th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
“The NBA cannot afford another relocation mistake. It hurts every owner and their bottom line”
Team mobility to sucky markets marginally hurts their bottom line. On the other hand, it majorly increases their team’s value should they choose to sell. It also increases their leverage with their home markets (witness our arena dispute).
January 28th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
“Hey AK, since you like to tout yourself - let me remind you that when I proposed to trade the #2 pick for Andrew Bynum before the draft last year you denounced it as inane. (I think the Lakers could have then used that #2 pick to get KG from Minny.). Alas, it is too late now for such a trade.” {McCoy}
Everyone but you ragged on that idea, but it definitely looks pretty damn good at this point. My thought was that Andrew Bynum wouldn’t progress so quickly thus far into his young career, and the draft rights to Kevin Durant should’ve been possibly used to net an up-’n'-coming superstar — such as Dwight Howard or Chris Paul — who’d already proven himself.
Now, it’s a matter of seeing who’s correct about Mouhamed Sene. Sene supporters include Scott, Steve, and yourself, while guys like Menace, Myk, and I are the detractors. As it is, I’m going to stick by my prediction that Sene will be a flat-out bust who’s out of the NBA by 2010.
January 28th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
The main Sonic excitement in he next few weeks may be thinking about trade rumors & ideas.
Trading Wally & KT makes sense in terms of they can each likely help a playoff bound team & also provide good salary cap relief soon (KT this summer & Wally the following summer). What I have a hard time seeing is how they can trade one or both of these guys & make salaries work in the trade - assuming the other team would not want to trade away anyone with an expiring contract - or anyone who is any good who they will need for their playoff push. We’ll see.
January 28th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Bill Simons likes to rank players based on which team would make (or consider) the trade and which team would say no way in hell.
With that criteria: who ranks higher Durant or Bynum?
January 28th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
D_G- the spam catcher holds posts that contain keywords often found in the pornographic spam we get everyday…avoid words with potential ties to pornography and you will get by
January 28th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
With the NBA salaries as out of control as they are, marginally hurting the bottom line is still significant because their profit margin is low to begin with. The owners are willing to take a hit when it is by their choice i.e. signing players. They chose to let the Hornets and Grizzlies move and by doing so they hurt themselves. They will be less likely to do it again and have another small market team with possible marginal attendance and smaller revenue. The NBA model is officially broken. The inmates are running the asylum. The players get to much of the pie and the owners only see the $$ on the sale of their team. It needs to be rebalanced so owners are getting more while operating and then would show a profit to encourage staying in ownership i.e. Howard Schultz. The Spurs are losing $$, the Heat are losing $$ and they are the last two champions and have new buildings. Time to fix the NBA and its financial structure.
January 28th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Man… I was at a bar last night watching the game. As soon as they passed it to Wilkins, I thought the game was over because he was STRAPPPEED to the sideline. But mad props for Damien to hit that big shot.
ONLY TO follow up with insane disappointment. I was literally yelling “WHHHAATT? WHY? WHY??” after Kevin “I am the new Sonics assassin” Martin hit that improbable fade-away double-pump baseline shot at the freaking corner.
Then the camera zoomed to Wally Z and I can read his lips “you’ve got to be $hitting me”.
SAME SENTIMENT HERE CHANNEL Z, same sentiment
January 28th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Yes - if Sene busts I’m screwed in terms of talent evaluation - which BTW is based about 80-85% on statistics. What will be interesting to see is if a 22 year old putting up really good #s on 3-4 statistical categories in the D-league against guys 4-10 years older than him means anything in the NBA. I view that as a wait and see situation. (think Jordan Farmar).
I also thought Delonte could play a bit. He has done next to nothing to show that this year - although I blame PJ for at least a small portion of that.
January 28th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
I think (based on a vague memory) AkDan is from Alaska.
Stern’s financial model worked for a time but ultimately I agree with Dork1013 that a future commissioner will probably have to go for major change- but probably only when forced to by a down period.
January 28th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Saw your post above Mr. Baker after it cleared moderation. The scenario you wore about earlier and others have noted may come to pass eventually. If there is a local owner and an acceptable arena deal. It is both possible or not. Talk that these things were already basically in hand seems less and less credible to me given no announcement. But perhaps they are waiting on the judge to rule of court case timetable for some reason. It all moves so slowly.
January 28th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
It sounds like we may hear tommorow on when the lawsuit court date will be. Hope it is an October date!
January 28th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Yup, I’m a transplanted Alaskan living in Seattle. Back in the GP and Kemp days my brother and I flew down here a few times to see the Sonics. I remember the arena was so crowded we couldn’t get seats together. Thinking of those days it really ticks me off when Bennett and Co. try to say this is not a b-ball town. I now have 1/2 season tickets and it’s amazing how few people go to the games. Now you can basically sit anywhere you want.
It’s amazing and sad how far the team and organization has fallen. Thanks Schultz, Wally W., Bennett, and so on.
January 28th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
The NBA model is officially broken. The inmates are running the asylum. The players get to much of the pie and the owners only see the $$ on the sale of their team. It needs to be rebalanced so owners are getting more while operating and then would show a profit to encourage staying in ownership i.e. Howard Schultz. ”
I hold the owners to blame as much or more so than the players. Employees are always going to hold out for higher salaries, so they’re just doing what any of us would.
The owners on the other hand were the instigators of the last work stoppage — at the time the party line was that they needed this work stoppage to get their financial house in order. Obviously that hasn’t happened when you have a team like the Knicks blowing the salary system completely out of whack by grossly overpaying every guy on the roster. And when teams like the Spurs and Heat can’t make money (allegedly) with newer arenas then the financial model needs an overhaul. But what’s the solution?
IMO, The NBA will never be on truly secure financial footing until they completely get rid of guaranteed contracts and install a harder cap. They made some steps in that direction during the last CBA by shortening the length of contracts, but they need more. I’d push for a maximum contract length of three years with team option for a 4th, followed by unrestricted free agency.
They are pretty close to or already at where the NHL was pre-strike, IMO. The league’s become almost completely marginalized and has witnessed lower and lower TV numbers for its playoffs and Finals every year. There are a number of lessons I believe they can learn from the NFL in terms of marketing, contracts and labor relations but that will have to wait for a new commissioner.
Going to non-guaranteed contracts & a harder cap would inject some badly needed incentive to players to play well after signing their second contracts. I’d include a penalty for cutting players with years remaining on their deals similar to the NFL. I realize this doesn’t solve everything but at least they’d have an out for the Jerome James of the league that contribute nothing other than using up an available player slot.
I don’t see the current system being indefinitely sustainable.
January 28th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
“avoid words with potential ties to pornography and you will get by ”
I think my mom tried to give me the same advice once, but it is hard to live up to such high standards.
Anyhow, I now realize that my offending phrase must have been “sprouting offspring”.
I don’t remember having seen that movie.
January 28th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
“Your insistence that Durant will be great because he can score 19 points on 20 shots comes off as garbage as well.”
That is not my argument that he is going to be great…never said it was. My only point is while some are nto happy with 5-20(and I am not either) the kid brought in 19 points. As he learns and develops(which I think will be stunted in part because of PJ), and puts on on muscle(even if it is “wirey” strength and not necessarily a tremendous amount of size) the kid is going to find more ways to score. If he can find a way to put 19 up on 5-20, following that development we are going to see some 35+ point seasons.
He is going to be great because of reasons we have discussed time and time again. I’m just trying to add some perspective with my “5-20″ comment on a board that is losing it’s collective peripheral vision. I agree, he can’t pull 5-20 every night, but we have also seen him posterize, hit a game winning shot, and drop 35 twice so far this year. He is by far outperforming every other rookie in the field….so I guess I just don’t see the downside.
In 3 years you will all see how right I am. I know most of you are thirsty for some wins….but it doesn’t mean you have to be swarming the cooler chugging Haterade.
January 28th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Wow, two people agree with me….. a new record!!
January 28th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Why is Delonte not getting anymore playing time? The guy does not look injured to me… what is PJ’s deal?
January 28th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
DK, I have written here and everywhere since the start of his rookie year that Petro is not a center, but a future backup power forward.
D_G, a private business owner has to want to sell to another non-goverment party. Few people sell NBA teams, none for a true loss.
not only do you need the money to buy, but the cash call money in the lean years AND the league has to approve the sale of the franchise.
There was a guy last summer that was kind of pitching this, Dougs, I think is it.
This does not fit the crybaby owner threatening to leave if he does not get tax money to run his business, NBA model, so the league may not approve the sale.
You should ensure that you openly communicate with the local media after you set up the banner, and let them know that SOS and Brian have nothing to do with this, they have plausible deniability, even though they could have acted to stop you by deleting every message you have ever written here (there are edited and missing threads here), but that is a minor detail.
Somebody has to be Lee Atwater (sp) at some point, might as well be you.
You might want to see how much a poll cost to conduct in OKC before they vote and ask them “if you knew that voting no might make it MORE likely that the Hornets move to OKC, would you consider voting no? It is not true, it is hypothetical, it is call a push-poll, you could do a much more ethical question there and get the same effect, I bet you could get more than 66% of the OKC voters to say they are willing to vote down the tax. I wonder how much that kind of poll costs, maybe ask Bennett, I think he knows.
fly your banner, express youself.
January 28th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
For all that can depress you about the Sonics team and franchise in general these days, take a look at this:
http://www.nbadraft.net/
We are now slotted as having the #2 lottery pick on nbadraft.net! Ok, I know, we have no clue where we’ll wind up in the next lottery (and losing doesn’t guarantee anything), I’m just looking for any silver lining possible.
Playing the role of Mr. Brightside, I hope that the team is forced by the court to play out their lease, Clay ends up selling to local ownership, and the city proposes a remodeling of the Key that will make the new owners happy. On top of all this, we draft Derrick Rose.
These fantasies are what keep me going as a Sonics fan during these dark days…
January 28th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
“As a libertarian minarchist politically and an individualist philosophically, one of my core beliefs is that people have the right to say whatever they want — and, moreover, act in any way that suits them — so long as nobody is physically harmed during the process.”
So Anthony, are you going to return your rebate check?
January 28th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Our Record is 9-35….the Hornets are 31-12.
We are at 79.3% capacity at 13,536 avg attendance.
NO is 71.1% capacity at 12,221 avg attendance.
They are leading the Western Conference while we keep getting lottery balls. David Stern needs to stop using Katrina as an excuse. Get out of NO and go to OKC. The benchmarks will never be reached. The Seattle Super “can’t win a game to save their lives” are out drawing Shinn’s precious Hornets. They can’t sell out for Kobe or Lebron. The All-Star game will be filled with tourists and celebrities not the locals. If the NBA “CARES” they will take admit their mistake, move the Hornets, leave the Supes in Seattle and let NO continue to support the Saints like they always have. The Saints Attendance:
http://sportstwo.com/NFL/TeamAttendance/NEWORLEANS
95.9% capacity for a 7-9 football team. 13th overall 23rd by capacity %. That is a 7-9 football team. The Hornets are leading the WEST!! They can’t draw flies.
January 28th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
crow, nobody is going to play their hand until the judge deals the river card tomorrow, then I expect a churn of trial balloons and scenarios. The judge will give everybody a fact to work with.
For me, this is kind of like the day before the summer free agency period, I know that is kind of sick, I just think we have a very good shot at this going to 2010, putting Shinn in play.
January 28th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Dork - make that 3 who agree’s with your post on the sad state of the NBA.
Steve - thanks for the follow-up post to this above - excellent summary - could not agree with you more. The NBA is headed towards the life of the NHL… a major league with a solid base of hard-core fans - but decreasing broad appeal to average fans and continued problematic finacial dynamics. All your specific cdomments are right on target IMO.
1. Owners need to take responsibility for their mistakes - players will always push for as much as they can get - but their cut if the pie is too big.
2. Guarenteed contracts & the length of them have to change/go. The presence of guys like Jerome James sucks the life out of a team & for the fans too. It is pathetic but happens to often.
3. A “Hard” cap is needed & likely a new commissioner. Stern simply has lost his vision and ability to be creative & aggresive about dealing with the obviousl problems in the current CBA & business model of the league.
The money for the League wil increasingly come from merchandise sales globally and TV & internet media money - and there is A LOT of that $$$ out there. So they will continue to function - but IMO without some of the changes Steve suggests the overall NBA experience will decline, attendance will decline, TV rating decline etc.
January 28th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Dork & others on New Orleans….
I totally agree with everyone who says the NBA made a huge mistake placing a team in NO - Even before Katrina this was a bad move that was not working. IMO, there is now no chance this franchise will make it & the sooner Stern realises this the better. I have no interest in coming down on the good folks in NO - they have been through a brutal crisis that continues - but the NBA is simply not going to work well there.
January 28th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
On the Soncis potential move & complaining about Stern & Clay:
We can complain all we want about Stern & Clay - and I’m in the middle of that - BUT….. If Seattle leadership does not come up with a plan for a new arena or big-time re-model of the KEY that a local ownership group is willing to work with - there is NO chance the Sonics will stay here. Even if the legal/court stuff goes against Clay - if there is no new arena the Sonics will simply be gone 1-2 years later.
January 28th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Talk about the NBA’s impending demise is premature in my opinion. I don’t necessarily disagree with the points about the salary cap, guaranteed contracts, and marketing but the point about declining television ratings is one that I disagree with vehemently. The NBA has actually experienced somewhat of a ratings resurgence this season. As for the playoff television ratings, if the NBA Finals involves the Boston Celtics or LA Lakers, I predict that the NBA would record its best ratings this decade. I concede that my opinion is biased as I’m probably one of the bigger non-Sonics NBA advocates on this blog.
January 28th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
jj, if Seattle leadership dies not come up with an answer to the Seattle Center as a whole then there is a much bigger problem.
The Fun Forrest slurped a lot of city money over the past few years, for example.
The whole thing needs a remake, and getting a major national face as a tenant is a good thing. Licata wants to spend millions on promoting the remodelled Center AFTER the Sonics leave, and 220 mil on the remodel (do not know where that money will come from). Dumb.
I know the River Walk is there because the Spurs exist, otherwise it doesn’t to me.
January 28th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Both the plane banner plan and the interaction with Bennett last night made truehoops.com in last few hours.
January 28th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
“and marketing but the point about declining television ratings is one that I disagree with vehemently. The NBA has actually experienced somewhat of a ratings resurgence this season. ”
The overall numbers for the last 7ish years are still WAY down Alex:
http://www.humanvictorycigar.com/2006/11/29/taking-the-measure-of-nba-finals-television-ratings/
“As for the playoff television ratings, if the NBA Finals involves the Boston Celtics or LA Lakers, I predict that the NBA would record its best ratings this decade. ”
That doesn’t equate increased long term interest in the league though. In essence your post supports the contention that the overall game itself is hurting. Without the lack of a ‘marquee’ team in the finals the league simply doesn’t draw on TV anywhere nearly as well as it did during the Jordan era and before.
poster “stat sprocket” makes numerous good points in the comments on that link. Lack of developing a network TV audience and inequal regional access to games are both things That have worked against the league in the past to create the climate of fan disinterest today. There are others but the league certainly hasn’t done anything to promote enough interest in the league as a whole to keep the audience there when Boston/NY/LA/Jordan aren’t in the finals.
The conference final game 1 between the Spurs and Jazz last year had an overnight share of something like 3.0, which is pitiful … the Cavs/Pistons was 3.8 and this is with the league’s supposedly most marketable player and a team that’d made the NBA Finals two years in a row… if you’re a fan of the game you should be disturbed by those numbers. Interest IS declining and has been since the lockout, more or less.
January 28th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
People used to be able to relate to the players.
Now the players are a bunch of millionaire spoiled brats that no ordinary fan can relate to or look up to. Glaring at officials every time they miss a shot. Always looking for someone else to blame for everything.
Why should I be interested in some whiny athlete who is never going to have to work a real job again?
And enough of them whine and complain about petty little things to turn my attention away.
All the while they are being paid millions to stay in shape and goof off for a job. Not to mention getting at least 3 months vacation every year.
No wonder ratings are down.
January 28th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
I wouldn’t be surprised if the NBA is on its way to being scripted like “professional” wrestling.
January 28th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
On Petro as a PF:
If the basic idea here is that to be a decent player in this league Petro cannot be a center I agree. He must be in the game with a real big man who can take up space and cover the strongest opponent. But at the same time he does not fit the PF role well at all. He really is a small forward stretched out to 7′ length, which would be great if he had enough quickness and skill to play SF… but he doesn’t so he’ll likely never be much more than a deep backup. I do give him credit for playing hard and turning out to be okay given his late pick and small salary. Petro is not what is wrong with the Sonics.
January 28th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Steve Says:
“The NBA model is officially broken. The inmates are running the asylum. The players get to much of the pie and the owners only see the $$ on the sale of their team. It needs to be rebalanced so owners are getting more while operating and then would show a profit to encourage staying in ownership i.e. Howard Schultz. ””
Have to agree here. One would expect a couple teams/cities to be in trouble at any given time out of 30 and the league overall could be fine, but it is getting to the place where a much larger portion of the league has financial problems, arena problems, or both.
In addition to the ideas above about not gauranteeing contracts, etc., how about a luxury tax that starts above the cap, instead of one that starts way above that makes the cap meaningless except to stifle trades? A luxury tax allows owners to still spend more if they want to which is their right, but it evens out the field and compensates other teams for their spending. Teams like the knicks could be stupid if they want but will pay for it and help the financial health of the league.
January 28th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
A new name in the draft hunt for me is
Marreese Speights. Anybody have reactions from seeing him play?
Also this stat study http://www.wagesofwins.com/NBAProspects1-27.html
(influenced by non-conference schedule and not adjusted for quality of opponent) scores Love and Hendrix high. Ryan Anderson does pretty well too. Of course college isnt the NBA. Some bigs will still perform well at next level, some will drop dramatically. Specifically I wonder about Love. Very nice stats, but translation into NBA?
None of the guards are blowing it up here. With guards if they aren’t blowing up college I am quite skeptical about them doing so in the pros.
(I prefer to use PAWS comparing players to those at their position to help neutralize rebounding influence.)
January 28th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
This is wordy and I pulled it back initially but since there is a lot of Petro talk at the moment I’ll post it in case any of it is of interest / use.
Hadn’t noticed this before but Petro /Collison are currently each’s best pairing on team +/-.
But last season it was their worst pairing in 5 times more minutes.
Which is it?
Hard to say from raw +/-. In 05-06 it was one of Petro’s better pairs but one of Collison’s worst. Ultimately team +/- depends of the everybody and the others they had last season and this season may be what kicks the indicator one way or the other. Adjusted +/- would offer a better answer. The team can buy that type of information.
What do your eyes and instincts tell you?
I don’t have a strong memory / opinion. This is probably Petro at C and Collison at PF (but maybe offensive and defensive roles vary?). Wonder about Petro / Collison pairing with Petro as the PF and Collison as the center. Could that work in future? Maybe as part of a rotation but it doesn’t seem like a mainstay. I mention it because it is Petro’s only positive pairing and one of only 3 for Collison (along with Thomas and Ridnour) as of a few weeks ago. Petro / Durant is fairly large negative but not as bad as Durant’s average. In fact Petro is his 2nd best big after Thomas though by very small margins over Wilcox and Collison.
Petro is signed thru next season. How much he get to play (and where and how) and how much he delivers will be interesting to watch.
January 28th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
“But at the same time he does not fit the PF role well at all. He really is a small forward stretched out to 7′ length, which would be great if he had enough quickness and skill to play SF… but he doesn’t so he’ll likely never be much more than a deep backup.”
Petro’s game lends itself more to the PF position than C for sure. He plays facing the basket, not back to the basket and has a nice jumper from 15-17 ft. That’s a pro forward’s game. Kemp-style postup PFs are virtually a thing of the past w/ the current rules anyways.
I dont’ see SF in Petro at all … not enough range on the jumper and not really a running baseline type of player. YMMV.
January 28th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Sonics last in league over last 10 games on 3pt FG% and tied for last on makes. For the season they are 6th worst on 3pt FG% and 4th on fewest makes. Clearly Presti has to add back more 3 pt shooters in the mix long-term to replace more of what he let go (but they don’t have to go all the way back to Allen/Lewis style of course). In short-term PJ could change rotation and playcalling to try to address this some but after half a season the limitations shown are probably hard to change a lot.
January 28th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Keep the faith Sonics fans. We all knew we had to get bad in order to get good. Durant WILL get tremendously better in all facets of the game, Swift will become a solid NBA center (hopefully as a Sonic), We will get our point guard in the draft, Green will become the player that every team wishes they had, Sene or Petro will become a solid backup. Here’s to keeping the Sonics in Seattle. I have a hard time believing the NBA will let them leave.
January 28th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Crow I’ve never seen Speights play, but people have been saying he’s filled in nicely after Horford and Noah departed to the NBA.
I’ve seen a lot of Kevin Love though. To me he doesn’t look like NBA starter material, atleast on a decent team. Love just doesn’t possess enough explosiveness or much speed as well as great finishing ability. Maybe if he develops a consistent midrange jumper I’d think differently. He’s going to have the same problems as Collison as far as finishing against other athletic shotblocking bigs imo.
January 28th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
look at Thomas’ shot chart, look at Petro’s, and you will find little difference. Thomas is not the back to the basket power player that is used as defining Petro as a SF. I think that he would go inside more if he knew how, that is maybe something he can learn, maybe not, but the 5 blocks he had the other night make it worth keeping his cheap contract another year to find out if he can progress.
There really are not too many traditional NBA back to the basket power players, the jumphook he used the other night was not too bad.
I think having petro go against collison everyday could help petro a lot.
January 28th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
Alex…. I like your passion for the NBA. I just think the leagues problems are very real & go very deep into the structure of the current CBA & economic model. I think the overall “Trend” in terms of the leagues broad popularity is going down - not up.
They can limp along. There is tons of money in the league. But if they want to thrive in a new way in the next 10+ years IMO they will not need to “Tweak” a few things - they need some major changes. IMO Stern is not the guy who can make that happen - not enough vision, courage & leadership at this point from him. Maybe with age he is winding down. I don’t know but I just don’t see it in him.
January 28th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
Steve and Mr. Baker,
In light of the newer style of PF in the league, I think you guys are right about Petro. I’ve just waited so long for the Sonics to get somebody inside who can play, especially on the defensive end. Too bad the only guy in recent years for the Sonics who exepmlified this was Fortson, whose overblown physicality was only surpassed by his lack of self control. It could come at either the PF or C position. Petro has earned his keep as a low cost bench player at least.
January 28th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Steve, I agree that the league’s ratings are down overall for the last seven years. My point was only that ratings have improved this season. That’s progress. This NBA season (taking off my Sonics cap for a second) has been my favorite this decade because of the improved competitive balance and increased level of play.
I absolutely agree with one of your criticisms. People will watch the NFL playoffs even if the Packers, Cowboys, Patriots, Colts, Giants, and Steelers weren’t playing. A Super Bowl involving the Jaguars and Panthers would still draw incredible ratings.
In contrast, the NBA needs teams such as the Lakers, Knicks, and Celtics and to a lesser extent, Warriors and Suns to succeed for the league to draw any ratings. Though courtsense and Dick Tate disagree with me about the value of the Spurs to the NBA, I’m not sure they would disagree with the argument that it would be beneficial for the league’s television ratings if the Spurs lost in the first round or missed the playoffs altogether.
January 28th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
One of the things they hammered on in bus school was growth of the business. Even if you have a good profit, if your business isn’t growing then your stock won’t rise. Of course the NBA is not a normal business, but I do see their plan over the past decade as being growth. Growth in jerseys, restaurants, shopping, luxury boxes, etc. all of which is in addition to fan base at games and TV revenue. Also, they have continued to grow the amount localities are willing to finance their business. Each new arena is more expense at a rate that greatly exceeds inflation. So are they nearing the end of this type of growth potential? Have they neglected the actual product, which is basketball? My opinion is they have. But until something gives them a shock I bet they continue down this path. Success often breeds arogance.
January 28th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
“The conference final game 1 between the Spurs and Jazz last year had an overnight share of something like 3.0, which is pitiful … the Cavs/Pistons was 3.8 and this is with the league’s supposedly most marketable player and a team that’d made the NBA Finals two years in a row… if you’re a fan of the game you should be disturbed by those numbers. Interest IS declining and has been since the lockout, more or less.”
A 3.0 rating is terrible. I’m sure the NBA wishes the Spurs and Jazz would just go away. My contention is that a Suns and Warriors matchup would have drawn a significantly higher rating. The 3.8 rating that the Pistosn and Cavs drew isn’t great, but not that bad either considering that the series was shown only on cable television. That begs the question though; why is the Eastern Conference Finals being shown exclusively on cable television?
January 28th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
It’s not just tv ratings. Look at attendance this season. As of now, there are 8 teams averaging under 15,000 per game. Last year there was one, and 2 years ago, there were NO teams averaging under 15,000 per game.
N.O. is averaging only 12,221, but they are only the 2nd-lowest in attendance. Indiana is averaging only 12,068. Indiana plays in what many people think is the best arena in the NBA. The Pacers have a newer arena, and still nobody is going to their games.
Ticket prices are a big factor. Prices are just absurd now.
The economy, both nationally and locally, has been going gangbusters the past few years. It looks like that has come to an end, and we may even go into a recession. For sure, the housing boom, which made many people feel like they had a lot of money to spend, is over. When the economy slows, one of the first things to be affected is entertainment spending. It’s pretty easy to give up your season tickets to a sports team if you’re having trouble making house payments, or paying for health care.
I would say that the economic downturn bodes badly for pro sports attendance in the coming year or two. The reduction in tax revenues WA state is expecting to bring in is certainly not going to make the legislature more likely to approve any tax subsidies for a new Sonics arena.
January 28th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Seattle’s three-point shooting was down quite a bit last year from the 2005-2006 season. Part of that decline can be attributed to either Ray or Rashard missing forty-eight games last season.
The fact that the offense was so centered on the three-point shot during the Ray/Rashard era was not an issue. Nearly all of the high-volume three-point shooting teams were pretty good teams the last two seasons. The problem with the Sonics was always on the defensive end. I believe that a team’s defense is dictated by its big men; the Sonics never had a big man capable of making any impact on the defensive end. If the Sonics had a player such as Marcus Camby, isn’t it reasonable to believe that they would have won 50-55 games consistently during the Rashard/Ray era? Unfortunately, they wasted two lottery picks on finding Marcus Camby and came up empty.
January 28th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
In regards to the Petro thread on the other forum. I’m still far from sold on him, but I’m seeing some moxy(?) from him that I didn’t know he had. He can hit shots, in spite of his subpar form as well, so if he can ever be a decent backup 4(for us), then that pick could turn out to be less than the disaster it was appearing to be. It’s all about consistency though as most of us realize, so he’s still got to prove it in that regard as well.
Also, what about a billboard in the Seattle area, or even in NO on a highly travelled road near the arena there?
January 28th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
K Love’s jumper will be critical. A few 3 pt makes in the stats so I wondered if he had enough outside touch but I read mixed reports. A 20 yr old version of Collison or Scola might still be somewhat attractive especially if he were still there in late 1st round for the Phoenix pick and were the best player still available.
January 28th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
Because nobody has done this in a while, and because it’s just fantasy, and because it hurts too much, here is who we could have drafted in the last few years:
David West instead of Luke Ridnour
Al Jefferson instead of Robert Swift
David Lee and Trevor Ariza instead of Petro and some 2nd rounder who never made it to the league
Ronnie Brewer instead of Sene
January 28th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
NOOOOOOOOOO Kevin Love. NOOOOOOOOOOO. He will be a bust. I guarantee you. An NBA bust.
January 28th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Kevin Love = Brad Lohaus
January 28th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
so here would be our drafted lineup right now:
at the 5: Al Jefferson
at the 4: David West
at the 4: David Lee
at the 4: Nick Collison
at the 3: Mikael Gelable
at the 2: Ronnie Brewer
at the 2: Trevor Ariza
sigh, sigh, sigh
January 28th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Lester… The Jeffersonpick is the one that really hurts.
I remember the night of that draft listening to Sund interviewed & he said they thought of Jefferson but leaned to Swift “Because he is a center & centers are hard to find.” I had not seen either of these HS kids play - but I remember hating the sound of it and thinking…
“Forget that stuff Sund - pick the guy who can PLAY”
IMO Sund made a classi mistake. Yes, getting a “5″ is tough but there are plenty of 7-Foot stiffs. That pick was a huge mistake & GM’s are paid to get that stuff right - not wrong.
January 28th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Steve Says:
“The NBA model is officially broken. The inmates are running the asylum. The players get to much of the pie and the owners only see the $$ on the sale of their team. It needs to be rebalanced so owners are getting more while operating and then would show a profit to encourage staying in ownership i.e. Howard Schultz. ””
I agree, Paul Allen had the Trailblazers for sale recently before he changed his mind, He said he was losing millions of dollars, this coming from the wealthiest owner in pro sports, The arena is fairly new and the Trailblazers are the only game in town so if it’s broke there it’s broke everywhere!
January 28th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
And then let’s say we still had Ray and Rashard….
our starters would be:
Al Jefferson
David West
Rashard Lewis
Ray Allen
and some crappy point guard!
January 28th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
oh, man, we could have drafted Josh Howard and David West instead of Luke and Nick. Oh, man, oh, man, this is grief porn, let me tell you.
January 28th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
I assume Sonics will take a big with at least one of their 3 highest picks. But that is a long way off.
Hopefully they’ll come to a better understanding of Petro, Swift and Sene by then. As TukwilaSonic notes they need a big who plays good D.
January 28th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
On the state of the NBA etc…….
We can talk a lot about ratings & trends etc. - good discussion & points here.
I would simply contend: Would the NBA be better off with some of the suggestions Steve & others call for? (I say Yes)
1. Eliminate “Gaurenteed” contracts - or at least make them shorter
2. Establish some type of ability to buy out a guarenteed contract to avoid guys like Jerome James to hanging on
3. Give more of the overall $$$$/Pie going to ownership than players (Could increase chance of reducing ticket prices, pay for some of buildings, make teams economically healthier etc.)
4. Make the salary cap more of a “Hard” cap - keep it simple and tight.
I would add…. thinking outside the box a bit - brainstorming idea here….
Have the NBA establish a large fund for teams to apply for grants for new or remodleing their arena - that the league would match money with any team that gains local tax $$$ support for arena developmet. Basically it puts the league in a position to partner with teams & local communities in arena development. There are a variety of potential positives. I realize the league would probably never do it - why use their money when they can get local taxpayers to pony up. But I would contend it is worth thinking about. If you reduced the amount of the pie the players get this could be done.
January 28th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
I mentioned Love just to get some feedback.
I know one or more people have said good things about Hendrix.
I know I asked about Ryan Anderson before but can’t recall if he drew response. It didnt stick with me at least.
January 28th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
Joshu@ said: “A physician never used poison to heal the sick.”
A man who’s obviously never had anyone close to him undergo chemotherapy before.
January 28th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
I see they just sent Gelabale to hook up with Sene in Idaho. This is long overdue. I have to wonder about the mindset of the GM when it’s obvious neither were going to play in the big league. Did it really take Sene’s improvement in the D League for Presti to wake up and realize Gelabale needs playing time as well if he’s to become better?
I suppose to give Presti a little slack, it’s 10 day contract time now so they have the ability to fill their roles of need be while they’re away. But I do question why it took so long to realize the importance of getting these guys minutes rather than having them waste away on the bench.
January 28th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
DK, they probably realize that Gelabale won’t play a lick during the next month while Wally & Wilkins are heavily showcased up ’til the trading deadline. I bet both Sene & Gelabale are in the Sonics rotation come March.
January 28th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
… as part of the next phase of the “evaluation process”.
January 28th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Lester Says:
“Kevin Love = Brad Lohaus”
Yeah, I’m sure that’s the comparison all the scouts and NBA people are making. Lohaus was such a fundamentally-sound player - able to dominate a premier conference as a freshman despite an obvious disadvantage in athleticism.
January 28th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
Dick Tate said:
“I bet both Sene & Gelabale are in the Sonics rotation come March.”
I hope you’re right about this, Dick - because if Sene and Gelabale are in the rotation, it probably means Thomas and Wally got moved at the deadline, and I’m all for that at this point.
January 28th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Anyone here ever have the pleasure of watching Jeff Ruland play in the NBA before he got hurt? He was an all-time great who had his career ended very prematurely. If Love could be anything close to Ruland he will be a very good NBA player.
On the other hand, Love could be another Christian Welp or Steve Poudakis (spelling). But I think Love is better than those 2. If Love was 7 feet tall, I think he’d be a sure thing in the NBA, but at 6′10″, it would be tough for him to play center.
January 28th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
The next 3 weeks will be all about trade rumors. The Sonics have plenty of motivation to deal obvioulsy.
I can for sure see how some contenders might want to add a Wally or KT - but matching their salaries will be tough.
I think the big decision for Presti is Wilcox. Does he….
1. Believe in CW as a long-term part of the core he wants to build around KD & JG?
2. If the answer is “NO” - then CW is gone either in Feb. or June. I can’t see them keeping him around for his contract to expire & then get nothing.
I’ll be surprised if he can move LR or EW in February - but in the summer when they each have only 2 years left on their contracts I think it could be a lot easier to move one or both of them.
This team will have a huge overhaul in the next 6 months.
January 28th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
let’s not draft the backup to anybody on the roster, and not at a position currently occupied by a rookie, ok
The second coming of Jeff Ruland, a super effort guy, imagine Brockman with talent, you know, basketball talent, not some strange football/basketball crossover athlete.
I am kidding, I barely remember Ruland.
January 28th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
Utah is now 11-2 since acquiring Kyle Korver. The minutes distribution between Korver and Brewer has been interesting but unsurprising in my opinion.
Korver has averaged a little over twenty-two minutes since arriving in Utah. Brewer has averaged just under twenty-four minutes per game since the trade. Before the trade, Brewer averaged thirty minutes per game. I suppose Jerry Sloan doesn’t factor PER into his determination as to who he should be receiving playing time as Korver and Brewer are essentially even in terms of playing time since the trade.
January 28th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
there may be a defensive efficiency number he is willing to live with for any player.
January 28th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
Utah’s defense hasn’t really improved since the trade but it hasn’t regressed either. The biggest myth about Utah is the idea that they are a tough defensive team. They have been in the bottom half of the league in terms of defensiv efficiency these past three seasons. Part of the reason why Utah struggles so much defensively is Sloan’s fondness for an overly physical brand of basketball. They are #2 in opponent free throw attempts this season after claiming the #1 spot last season. Brewer’s reduction in minutes may be due to his sub-par rebounding and his aversion to fouling, which has been a staple of Sloan’s defensive philosophy these past three seasons.
January 28th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
Looks like D. Williams took it to Tony Parker tonight big-time.
January 28th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Love is built somewhat like Jeff Ruland. Something about his attitude reminds me of Ruland, also. Ruland was 6′10″ and 240.
Ruland really played only 3 seasons in the NBA before he started getting hurt every year. In his 3rd season in the NBA, Ruland averaged 22 pts; 12 reb; and shot 58%! from the field for Philadelphia. He was really a dominating player, as his fg% shows.
I have no idea if Love could ever be that good or not. But I watched about half of a game that Love played in last weekend, and he just reminded me a little of Jeff Ruland. As someone mentioned here, Love is not very athletic, and neither was Ruland. Ruland was just a great basketball player. Being close to Jeff Ruland is probably the best anyone could hope for from Love. And that would be pretty dam good.
January 28th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
‘let’s not draft the backup to anybody on the roster…”
With the top pick of course you are right Mr. Baker that has to be the goal, to be achieved pretty quickly in year 1 or 2.
With the low 1st round pick and the high 2nd pick they are likely to be getting a backup unless they are very sharp about it or move somebody out.
January 28th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
Indiana has the double-whammy of leading the league in opponent free throw attempts and opponent free throw percentage. Utah is #2 in opponent free throw attempts but 20th in opponent free throw percentage. Perhaps Utah is showing better discretion than Indian in terms of which players they are fouling. They sent Dwight Howard to the line twenty-four times in a game this month. I’d utilize that strategy against Howard.
January 28th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
The Big Dipper Says:
“Anyone here ever have the pleasure of watching Jeff Ruland play in the NBA before he got hurt? He was an all-time great who had his career ended very prematurely. If Love could be anything close to Ruland he will be a very good NBA player.”
Dipper, I gotta say: my respect for your understanding of the game - the whole FG% fiasco notwithstanding - just multiplied exponentially. I remember Jeff Ruland very well, and that is a great, great call on your part. If Love is anything like Ruland, he’ll be a helluva player, and more than worthy of a high 1st round selection.
I wonder how many people here remember that Ruland and Ricky Mahorn comprised quite a tag-team long before Mahorn moved on to notoriety with the Pistons.
“McFilthy and McNasty” - 2 of the better nicknames in NBA history as well.
January 28th, 2008 at 11:19 pm
UPDATE: We have $635 in the PayPal account to fly the airplane banner. Yeah!
For those who do not know, we will be flying a banner over New Orleans Arena during All Star weekend that says, “STOP CLAY - SONICS MUST STAY!” Check out this thread for more information:
http://www.sonicscentral.com/bboard/viewtopic.php?t=6403
Anyone who wants to donate, please get a PayPal account, log in, choose to Send Money, and send your donation to sonicsfansunited@yahoo.com. Choose “Service/Other” instead of “Goods”. And make mention of your screen name so we know who to credit the donation to!
January 28th, 2008 at 11:23 pm
I converted from the Sonic’s forum on espn as ya’ll are capable of deep discussions.
The Spur’s model of building a team around a couple superstars and lower paid role players is good, but too bad their championships and new building can’t stop the team from losing money….I’m sure a lot of the previous discussed variables contribute to the broken financial system. I’m not sure of the correct descriptive word of the situation, but a new system of checks and balences needs to be implemented for a successful NBA for the league and fans alike.
January 29th, 2008 at 12:14 am
Sonics give up free throws about the same in wins and losses for season on average but beneath this average the pattern shows correlation of losing and fouling a lot and vice versa- free throws allowed went from highest rate in November (3 wins in 16) to 6 lower in December (6 wins in 14) to back up by 2 in January.
Half of Sonics slippage on point differential in January from December was because 3 ptrs made fell by a third . Own team free throws fell for second straight month costing almost 2 pts from December while opponents were up by 2 .
90% of 10 pt change from Dec. to Jan is explained by these factors. Other things changed but virtually netted out.
January 29th, 2008 at 12:25 am
Hey phenom. Yeah discussion can get deep here.
Forbes study says Spurs made $15 million last season and 2/3rds of teams had net positive operating income. Only 5 teams lost over $5 million.
Now this was before taxes and depreciation and is an estimate. Maybe in the end Spurs say they lost money on current operations. I don’t know. They had been doing fine on capital appreciation, though that tampered off recently. If capital appreciation stays sluggish there will be a much stronger incentive to control costs than there has been.
January 29th, 2008 at 1:47 am
“Kevin Love = Brad Lohaus” {Lester}
That’s the worst comparison I’ve ever read on here.
I still respect you for defending Earl Watson, however.
“Anyone here ever have the pleasure of watching Jeff Ruland play in the NBA before he got hurt? He was an all-time great who had his career ended very prematurely. If Love could be anything close to Ruland he will be a very good NBA player.
On the other hand, Love could be another Christian Welp or Steve Poudakis (spelling). But I think Love is better than those 2. If Love was 7 feet tall, I think he’d be a sure thing in the NBA, but at 6′10″, it would be tough for him to play center.” {The Big Dipper}
You mean Steve Stipanovich.
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/steve_stipanovich.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/stipast01.html
Anyway, Kevin Love’s varied offense, solid footwork, and hard-nosed demeanor down on the low block hasn’t been possessed by a man of his stature since Kevin McHale’s playing days. Despite Love’s stout, bulky phyisique at 6′9″ and 260lbs., he crashes the glass with such fierce tenacity that hasn’t been witnessed since Dave Cowens’ prime. Love throws an outlet pass that’s reminiscint of Bill Walton, too, which is a lost art.
Regarding current players, Love’s closest comparison is David Lee. As it is, they’re both extremely efficient field-goal shooters who gobble up boards like nobody’s business. There’s a two major differences between the two of them, however; Love is more refined on offense, while Lee has superior athleticism.
All things considered, Love is an interesting prospect. Yet, with Nick Collison already in the fold, the Seattle Supersonics ought to focus its search for Chris Wilcox’s replacement in another direction. Again, I suggest that Sam Presti should attempt to acquire Pau Gasol from the Memphis Grizzlies. That’s most likely nothing more than a pipe dream, though.
January 29th, 2008 at 2:08 am
“I know I asked about Ryan Anderson before but can’t recall if he drew response. It didnt stick with me at least.” {Crow}
I don’t like Troy Murphy and Austin Croshere, so I’m going to also dislike Ryan Anderson. Nick Fazekas wasn’t on my radar heading into the 2007 NBA Draft, and Anderson will be in that same boat come the 2008 NBA Draft.
By this point in time, y’all should fully understand my disdain for soft, jump shooting power forwards who take “power” out of the position. Suffice it to say, Vladimir Radmanovic wasn’t my favorite ’sonic—despite his ingenious hairstyles.
January 29th, 2008 at 2:32 am
“But at the same time [Johan Petro] does not fit the PF role well at all. He really is a small forward stretched out to 7′ length, which would be great if he had enough quickness and skill to play SF… but he doesn’t so he’ll likely never be much more than a deep backup.” {TukwilaSonic}
“Petro’s game lends itself more to the PF position than C for sure. He plays facing the basket, not back to the basket and has a nice jumper from 15-17 ft. That’s a pro forward’s game. Kemp-style postup PFs are virtually a thing of the past w/ the current rules anyways.
I dont’ see SF in Petro at all … not enough range on the jumper and not really a running baseline type of player. {Steve}
Although I’ve disagreed with Steve numerous times, his assessment of Johan Petro here is flawless. Obviously, Petro isn’t a center — nor a small forward in any way, shape, or form — but rather a power forward who roams the high-post and plays with his face to the basket.
I still think that Mark Blount is what we can expect of Johan Petro’s peak, which doesn’t exactly put a smile on my face. Once Petro’s rookie contract expires after next season, Sam Presti shouldn’t re-sign him—unless he magically makes significant strides in the next year. I, therefore, want the organization to receive something of value in return for Petro before his stock is completely diminished.
Yet, until Presti consummates some worthwhile transactions, Petro is best served as Kurt Thomas’ backup at power forward — as Jeff Green is seemingly being converted into a small forward come hell or high water — while Nick Collison and Chris Wilcox split time at center.
“So Anthony, are you going to return your rebate check?” {Alex Chan}
I think that it’s a fiscally irresponsible for Congress to allot the American public with an enormous tax rebate — especially since the average dumbass in this country will waste their refund and, moreover, it’ll actually further damage the domestic economy due to foreign companies profiting off of our imprudent spending habits — however, I detest FICA so much that it doesn’t bother me.
In any event, I support Mike Gravel’s “Fair Tax” proposal.
http://www.gravel2008.us/fair_tax
Although it’s not exactly in concurrence with my core political beliefs, I’m nevertheless flexible in certain situations.
January 29th, 2008 at 10:26 am
“You mean Steve Stipanovich.”
I meant Poudakis. Not sure of the spelling, or even his first name. He played center for WSU maybe 20 years ago. I guess he never made it to the NBA. Anyone remember him, and how to spell his name? He was a very good college player. Mostly a perimeter shooter, if I remember correctly.
I remember Stipanovich. He was a very good player. But he was over 7 feet tall. Much different player than Love. Love does not remind me of Stipanovich at all.
January 29th, 2008 at 10:41 am
OK. I actually found him. His name was Steve Puidokas.
Played for WSU from 1973-77. In 4 seasons he averaged 18.6 pts and 9.7 rebounds. His best year was 22.4 and 10.4.
I think Love is probably much better than Puidokas. But they are similar in size.
http://wsucougars.cstv.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/wast/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/0708-mg-alltime-rosters
January 29th, 2008 at 10:41 am
According to stats at kenpom.com on offensive rating (which covers TS% and turnover rate) Love is #2 for all of Div. I college basketball among those who use 24% or more of team possessions. He is #4 in the country on offensive and defensive rebounding. He is a nice enough 30th at getting to the line. College is a different level and success doesnt always translate but his stats make him worth a close look- in lower 1st round (using trade up if necessary).
Ryan Anderson might fit if they don’t groom Petro at PF or he doesnt stay. He was rated 15th best in country on offensive efficiency. Essentially I’d see him fill a Radmanovic type shooting big slot but hopefully with a better all-around game. He would not be an impact big or a #1 or 2 big but he might be a decent part of a big rotation. As a late 1st rounder.
The top Sonics pick will go on someone else.
January 29th, 2008 at 10:45 am
According to stats at kenpom.com on offensive rating (which covers TS% and turnover rate) Love is #2 for all of Div. I college basketball among those who use 24% or more of team possessions. He is #4 in the country on offensive and defensive rebounding. He is a nice enough 30th at getting to the line. College is a different level and success doesnt always translate but his stats make him worth a close look- in lower 1st round (using trade up if necessary).
Ryan Anderson might fit if they don’t groom Petro at PF or he doesnt stay. He was rated 15th best in country on offensive efficiency. Essentially I’d see him fill a Radmanovic type shooting big spot but hopefully with a better all-around game. He would not be an impact big or a #1 or 2 big but he might be a decent part of a big rotation. As a late 1st rounder.
The top Sonics pick will go on someone else.
January 29th, 2008 at 11:34 am
“OK. I actually found him. His name was Steve Puidokas.
Played for WSU from 1973-77. In 4 seasons he averaged 18.6 pts and 9.7 rebounds. His best year was 22.4 and 10.4.
I think Love is probably much better than Puidokas. But they are similar in size.” {The Big Dipper}
Here’s an informative story about Steve Puidokas.
http://washingtonstate.scout.com/2/566202.html
Honestly, I’d never heard of Puidokas before today.
January 29th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
AK: thanks for linking that story on Puidokas. That was a very good story. I had no idea he died about 14 years ago at age 39. That is sad. I went to the U.W. in the mid 70’s, so I saw Puidokas play a couple of times. That is why I knew about him. I went to every U.W. home football and basketball game for 4 years. I got to see Bill Walton play a couple of times at Hec Ed, also.
However, the story does say Puidokas is the only WSU player to ever have his jersey retired. He may be the best player ever at WSU. I don’t want to argue that.
My point is that Puidokas, like Welp (who played at U.W.) was a center who was built sort of like Love. Those guys were not skinny. They were tall and bulky. Jeff Ruland was built like thost guys, also.
I think Love can play in the NBA. The question is whether he will be sort of a marginal player like Welp, or an absolute stud like Ruland. The odds are he will be somewhere in the middle of that range. But he really does remind me of Jeff Ruland. If Love can be as good as Ruland in the NBA, then Love will be an absolute stud. I am not predicting Love will be another Ruland, but I think there is some chance of that.
January 29th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
Brad Lohaus was a McDonald’s All-American, then all Big Ten Player, who in his senior year was a good shooter, great passer, good rebounder, and was mobile enough to play point on the full-court press. He was a tremendous player whose skills only made him an NBA journeyman.
Kevin Love will be an NBA journeyman. He’ll play 12 years for 9 different teams.
January 29th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
Brad Lohaus was a “tremendous player” in colleg???
As a fifth-year senior in college, at 23 years of age, Lohause averaged 11 pts; 8 reb; and shot 54% from the field.
As a true freshman in college, at 19 years of age, Kevin Love is averaging 17 pts; 11 reb; and shooting 59% from the field.
Even if they were both the same age, the stats show Love to be the far superior player. Since Love is putting those numbers up as a freshman, and Lohaus had those numbers as a 5th-year senior, there is no comparison between the two — Love is vastly superior to Lohaus.
January 29th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
As a 19-year-old sophomore, Lohaus averaged 7pts; 5 reb; and shot 40% from the field. Compare those stats to Love’s numbers this year as a 19-year-old.
January 31st, 2008 at 11:20 am
I think K Love turns into a wider version of Nick Collison. His height won’t allow him to be a great finisher on the NBA level.
February 12th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Helmet law comes up for
Helmet law comes up for debate in legislatureKHAS-TV,NE-Jan 14, 2008… as much protection as automobiles when a motorcycle accident is