1/29/08 Box Score: Sonics 88 Spurs 85
Posted on Tuesday, January 29th, 2008 at 10:35 pm by Big Chris
The streak ends! Sonics win!!
If you told me before the game that out PG’s would go a combined 1 for 18 from the floor, I’d have bet we’d loose by 25+.
How’d we win this game? Limiting turn overs, rebounding well, and hitting free throws. Plus no Tony Parker is a bonus helper.
Kevin Durant led the Sonics in scoring with 26 points on 9 of 19, added 7 rebounds and 5 assists. Chris Wilcox added 16 points and 10 rebounds. Nick Collison contributed 14 points and 10 rebounds.
(28-16)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
(10-35)
| San Antonio | |||||||||||||||
| Name | Min | FG | 3Pt | FT | +/- | Off | Reb | Ast | TO | Stl | BS | BA | PF | Pts | |
| M. Ginobili | G | 39:35 | 10-17 | 4-6 | 5-8 | +6 | 0 | 4 | 7 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 29 |
| J. Vaughn | G | 36:56 | 2-9 | 0-0 | 0-0 | -7 | 0 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 4 |
| F. Oberto | C | 32:37 | 6-9 | 0-1 | 0-0 | 0 | 1 | 7 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 12 |
| T. Duncan | F | 37:39 | 10-21 | 0-0 | 7-7 | +7 | 3 | 12 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 3 | 27 |
| B. Bowen | F | 27:52 | 1-1 | 0-0 | 0-0 | +15 | 0 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 2 |
| M. Finley | 21:53 | 2-7 | 2-5 | 0-0 | -15 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 6 | |
| I. Udoka | 17:30 | 0-4 | 0-2 | 0-0 | -8 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 0 | |
| M. Bonner | 16:53 | 2-7 | 0-2 | 1-2 | -11 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 5 | |
| R. Horry | 9:03 | 0-1 | 0-1 | 0-0 | -2 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | |
| F. Elson | DNP - Coach’s Decision | ||||||||||||||
| I. Mahinmi | DNP - Coach’s Decision | ||||||||||||||
| J. Richardson | DNP - Coach’s Decision | ||||||||||||||
| Totals | 33-76 | 6-17 | 13-17 | 6 | 38 | 19 | 9 | 2 | 2 | 7 | 17 | 85 | |||
| Percentages: | .434 | .353 | .765 | Team Rebounds: 9 |
|||||||||||
| Seattle | |||||||||||||||
| Name | Min | FG | 3Pt | FT | +/- | Off | Reb | Ast | TO | Stl | BS | BA | PF | Pts | |
| K. Durant | G | 36:24 | 9-19 | 1-4 | 7-7 | +5 | 1 | 7 | 5 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 26 |
| E. Watson | G | 23:41 | 0-8 | 0-1 | 2-2 | -11 | 1 | 1 | 4 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 2 |
| K. Thomas | C | 28:35 | 5-10 | 0-0 | 0-0 | +2 | 1 | 6 | 1 | 1 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 3 | 10 |
| C. Wilcox | F | 31:11 | 8-14 | 0-0 | 0-0 | -2 | 3 | 10 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 16 |
| J. Green | F | 19:35 | 0-4 | 0-1 | 0-0 | -13 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 |
| W. Szczerbiak | 25:35 | 4-7 | 0-0 | 0-0 | +14 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 2 | 8 | |
| L. Ridnour | 24:18 | 1-6 | 0-0 | 2-2 | +14 | 0 | 2 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 4 | |
| N. Collison | 23:55 | 6-9 | 0-0 | 2-2 | +7 | 3 | 10 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 14 | |
| D. West | 14:26 | 0-4 | 0-1 | 0-0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 0 | |
| J. Petro | 12:19 | 4-8 | 0-0 | 0-0 | -1 | 1 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 8 | |
| R. Swift | DNP - Coach’s Decision | ||||||||||||||
| D. Wilkins | DNP - Coach’s Decision | ||||||||||||||
| Totals | 37-89 | 1-7 | 13-13 | 11 | 45 | 20 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 2 | 16 | 88 | |||
| Percentages: | .416 | .143 | 1.000 | Team Rebounds: 7 |
|||||||||||
| Game Info |
|
Technical Fouls: |
January 29th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
“# SeeJ Says:
January 25th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
I HAVE A GOOD FEELING ABOUT THE SAN ANTONIO GAME GUYS!!!”
January 29th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
That the Spurs are struggling so badly and closer to missing the playoffs that they are to the #1 seed at the moment is a great thing for NBA fans that want to see the NBA continue the positive momentum that it has gained this season this May and June.
That fadeaway jumper that Wilcox made against Oberto was awesome. Returning Weezy to the starting lineup appears to have paid dividends. The shot Durant hit to put the Sonics ahead for good was at least the third crunch-time shot that Kevin Durant has hit this season. Say what you want about Kevin’s field goal percentage, but I think it’s inarguable that this kid has Ray Allen’s flair for hitting the dramatic shot.
January 29th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
nice win for this team….Finally PJ puts Wally into the game in 4th qtr…
January 29th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
The mentally fragile player that plays like a girl hit some HUGE free throws at the end of the 4th. Without those free throws, the Spurs would have a guaranteed deuce from Duncan to win the game. Props to Luke.
January 29th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Petro did good again tonight with 8 and 5 in 12 mins on 4-8 shooting. Too bad he picked up 2 fouls, probably why he didn’t play more minutes.
January 29th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
“The mentally fragile player that plays like a girl …”
Got me laughing, ajw!
January 29th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
Wins get me in a joking mood.
January 29th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
SUUUUUUUPER!
January 29th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Collison said, “obviously to get people to stop talking about our 12 game losing streak is a good thing” (OK quote may not be exact..)
Damn straight.
January 29th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
If only Durant could play against the Spurs every game…..Manu Ginobili and Bruce Bowen really haven’t figured out how to guard the Sonics youngster.
Unbelievably, the Spurs would only be the #6 seed in the Western Conference if the season ended today. We’d see Dallas v. Spurs in the first round! What a great year for the NBA in terms of competitive balance.
January 29th, 2008 at 11:06 pm
I just returned from the game. Man, oh, man. Durant was so good the first 2 and 1/2 quarters and then he reverted back into that jump shooting wimp for about 10 minutes, and I thought we were going to lose, and then he just started driving to the hoop. Even when he’s missing those lay-ups, I much prefer that he’s trying to kill people. And he passed tonight. He drove and kicked for buckets 4 or 5 times. Everytime he touched the ball, I was screaming, “Drive, drive, drive!” I hope he’s screaming that at himself.
Luke so redeemed himself in the last two minutes or so. He missed all those big shots AGAIN. He can’t buy a jumper in the last four minutes of the game. And when he was on the line for those last free throws, our entire section was have audio and visual flashbacks to past free throws he’s missed in tight games. I was just hoping he’d hit one of them. And thank God we were able to defensively substitute for him after that. If he missed those free throws, who knows what happens. I salute Luke. Big balls. It was hilarious, too, because he shot that first one SO FAST. He didn’t want to even remotely think about it. It was moving out of his hands as soon as the ref tossed it to him. Beautiful.
My favorite battle of the evening, though, was Wally versus Bowen. Wally didn’t score much but he beat the holy hell out of Bowen. I’ve never seen a player so physically abuse Bowen (instead of the other way around). Wally was a demon, knocking people down and even blocking a shot. I’ve never seen him play like such a psycho killer.
Petro is coming on. I have some hopes for him. He hurried some jumpers. But I’d rather he hurry than hesitate.
Jesus, what a relief! Now we can lose 15 more in a row!
January 29th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
“If only Durant could play against the Spurs every game…..Manu Ginobili and Bruce Bowen really haven’t figured out how to guard the Sonics youngster.”
Even more impressive when you consider that they’re the best perimeter defensive tandem in the league.
“Unbelievably, the Spurs would only be the #6 seed in the Western Conference if the season ended today. We’d see Dallas v. Spurs in the first round! What a great year for the NBA in terms of competitive balance. ”
…in the West that is.
January 29th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Yeah, way to go Luke, KD, KT, CW, Johan, & the rest of the guys…
January 29th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
the one game i forget to watch, is the game this team wins.
go figure..
January 29th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
The thing is, I think Durant must have seen Kurt “Father Time” Thomas drive to the hoop twice for layups and think, “Jeez, if grandpa can get to the hole, maybe I can, too.”
January 29th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Damien out with the stomach flu.
Sounds like normal service will be restored next game.
January 29th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
I’d like to think that if Petro can get it goin’ that it might give Gelabale, and Sene some inspiration to start steppin’ up too (if they make it back up)…
January 29th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
lets see.. my Dolphins were 0-14..won their 1st game of the year against the ravens. Sonics 0-14 streak..A win on their 15th try. I shead tears for that game,and this one.. It was a great effort by everyone..and i have it all recorded..my little classic of the year..it tops the Atlanta game
January 29th, 2008 at 11:19 pm
Anyone notice how Ridnour threw the ball up in the air for celebration at the end of the game and the ball landed about 5 feet away from our basket? I know it wasnt really that close and maybe he threw it up slightly after the buzzer, but could someone tell him to please throw the ball away from our basket next time. That would probably be the worst way to lose a game.
Great game by the Supes though!
January 29th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
I was at the game too… Lester nailed it… but left out the fact that Wally had a monster dunk! Seriously. Surprised me. Love the mentally fragile comment re: Ridnour… he’s got skills, but the lack of confidence always peaks through on his face… even when he is hitting the free throws that put the game on ice… speaking of facial expressions, it was great to see the smiles of joy and relief on the Sonics’ faces when the game ended. Great team win! Next up, Lebron…
January 29th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
Fun game - great to see us hold up like that in the 4th quarter. Luke missed a few buckets but he knows he’s got to take the 15 footers when they’re there. He was dealing pretty well down the stretch, and the free throws have to be a confidence builder.
Durant had a nice game, KT aka “Timmy Killer” had a good game defensively, and the crowd was loving it.
Great to be in the Key and feel that energy.
January 29th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
God that Nick Collison bobblehead is an UGLY f’ng piece of handiwork!
January 29th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Lester said, “Everytime he touched the ball, I was screaming, “Drive, drive, drive!” I hope he’s screaming that at himself. ”
I can SO hear that, man.
“Jesus, what a relief! Now we can lose 15 more in a row! ”
LOL! So true. Ouch, though.
January 29th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
It’s too early to write the obituary for San Antonio’s repeat chances but I’ll pour it on them tonight (a NBA fan can dream after all). They are the only Western Conference team with a record over .500 to lose to the Sonics.
The Spurs are only averaging 91 points this month. They averaged 95 points in December. They averaged over 101 in October/November. The weird thing about their drop in scoring is that Tim Duncan’s offensive numbers have improved this month. The biggest factor for San Antonio’s offensive decline may be that they are no longer shooting the three-ball well. They are shooting around thirty-percent from the long-ball this month after shooting around thirty-nine percent in October/November/December. Perhaps the best defense against them is to play Duncan with just one defender and stay home with their numerous spot-up three-point shooters.
January 29th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
I just got home from the game - My observations…
1. The crowd was into it in the 4th quarter.
2. NO turnovers by Luke was huge
3. Strong defense most of the night
4. Petro played hard & well. At the end of the first half he had a block with about 5-6 seconds to go & Watson headed down the court & missed the layup but Petro was there to grab the offensive rebound & dunk it in at the buzzer. That hustle was great to see & I give him props for that. That was 2 points from our guy working harder than anyone else on the court.
5. Collison & Thomas were very solid - made Duncan work - Wilcox had some good moments too. All of them made some big shots & plays in the 4th quarter.
6.Yes - Wally was going face to face with Bowen & not backing off an inch. fun to watch. I think Bowen is sliding downhill… he’s just getting too old.
7. D. West needs to stay on the bench.
8. This is very subjective - but I was sittting close - maybe 20 rows from the court - and I felt like both Luke and Earl were blowing PJ off and had very apathetic body language towards him when he tried to talk to them at certain times. I could be way off on this - but I sense bad chemistry between both our point guards & PJ tonight.
Nice win - fun game - Glad we caught them when T. Parker was out -strong effort by The Sonics. Collison continues to be solid. I know some of you will never believe it…. but I think Petro is showing he may have the potential to have a place in this league. IMO he is earning more minutes.
January 29th, 2008 at 11:59 pm
Only 16.5 games back of the final playoff spot…….never mind.
January 30th, 2008 at 12:11 am
It feels SOOO good to finally get a win. They really played their hearts out tonight. I lost count of how many times the Sonics dived on the floor tonight chasing loose balls and I haven’t seen that in a long time. Our boys really wanted a win desperately, and I’m so glad they got it.
Also really nice to see Durant snapping out of his slump. His overall game was excellent tonight. I was afraid that the losing was breaking him down but it seems like he is tough enough to turn frustration into determination.
I’m proud of this team tonight. One of the few bright spots in this long season.
January 30th, 2008 at 12:36 am
Dipper, add one win to the column when the Sonics have a lower field goal percentage than their opponent. Weezy, Petro, and Collison really controlled the glass tonight.
I guess I should have added an extra qualifer to my premature Spurs repeat obituary. They are 20-9 with Brent Barry and 8-7 without him. They average three more points with Bones in the lineup, so his absence is a huge reason for why their offense and three-point shooting has stagnated and suffered this month.
January 30th, 2008 at 5:36 am
Kevin Durant had a great game yesterday evening, which is an anomaly considering his overall poor play thus far this season.
As it was, the San Antonio Spurs definitely missed Tony Parker’s playmaking skills and, moreover, Brent Barry’s offensive firepower off of the bench. Indeed, Parker and Barry’s absences gave the Seattle Supersonics an advantage. That, along with Chris Wilcox and Nick Collison’s double-double performances, pretty much sealed the deal.
Irrespective of last night, the Spurs’ backups include several players who are in their 30s — including Barry, Ime Udoka, Michael Finley, Robert Horry, Jacque Vaughn, and Francisco Elson — which might haunt the ballclub come playoff time. While it’s always nice to have some veteran leadership, an infusion of youth would probably add a spark to this aging roster.
Reportedly, Damon Stoudamire has contemplated signing with the San Antonio Spurs. With Parker out indefinitely and Vaughn unable to carry the starting point guard load, Stoudamire would be a perfect stopgap as the team’s floor general.
Unlike Chris Webber’s shocking decision to rejoin the Golden State Warriors after his falling out there with Don Nelson in 1994, this move makes sense to me. Webber, in my opinion, would’ve been better off had he signed with either the Detroit Pistons or the Los Angeles Lakers—but this was his choice.
Anyway, here’s to hoping that the Supersonics have turned the corner. I seriously doubt it, though.
January 30th, 2008 at 8:51 am
The absence of Barry and Parker is pretty big, but, it’s a pretty nice win all the same. In the +/- stat, Ridnour outplayed Watson pretty badly tonight. It could have to do with the other 4 guys on the floor though. It sounds like this was KD’s smartest game in a while.
So, was our losing streak the longest in the league this season? Didn’t Miami have a 14 game losing streak?
January 30th, 2008 at 9:00 am
On a positive note, we were 100% from the free throw line tonight. On a negative note, we only went to the line 13 times: 13/13. There are nights when D-Wade goes to the line more than our entire team did tonight.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:08 am
Spurs starting to look a little long in the tooth.What a fun win! I think my wife thinks I’m crazy.
Other things.considering the news of trial date in a.m. papers what does all this mean?and here’s any news of city’s arena proposal?!! and do Art Theil’s comments of behind the scenes
maneuvering play into all of this?
What a shame to lose this team. My guess is the city will present a reasonable upgrade of key arena which would make it just fine.Not a palace but certainly ok for any nba team.And apparently local owners would be fine w/ it also.But no .we get clay bennett.F**k howard Schultz
January 30th, 2008 at 9:20 am
Stat of the night?
Durant — 5 assists.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:22 am
It just shows the point guard situation isn’t the problem to me. Our point guards have done a great job distributing the ball all year. It is up to the scorers to do their job.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:26 am
have to admit that Petro has shown improvement. He still sucks defensively, but you really can’t overlook that he has more confidence, is getting blocks and hustling down the floor. He’s had two coast-to-coast plays where he either took the ball or hustled on a follow-up play. He actually contributed to the win, rather contributed to a loss. if he plays like that going forward, he could be an acceptable back-up. Remains to be seen.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Also glad to see Delonte play some. Played good defense in the game against Ginobili when he was in there.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:35 am
Off topic a bit but I thought I’d post it. In the Seattle Times it quotes Delonte West as saying that he hasn’t ever met with Presti or Carlisimo to get a status report on where they feel he fits with the team. Yet I read a couple days ago where Carlisimo was saying that he has had 15 minute meetings with the players this week(or last) to go over where their heads are at and what’s expected of them.
Someone isn’t telling the truth here. Delonte West sure has fallen out of favor with PJ.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:46 am
Cavs game prediction: Earl has one of those games where we say: “Maybe he’s not all that bad.” His jumper is falling and he delivers the ball in front of KD instead of behind him. Danny Ferry says “Hey Scooter Presti!! What will it take to get him off your hands.” Then we can watch TNT, ESPN or League Pass to see Earl jacking up a shot with 2 on the shot clock after he dribbled off the first 22. Lebron would love that guy so much that he would definitely be in NY after 2010.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:59 am
Anyone know the attendance number for the game?
January 30th, 2008 at 10:03 am
Not sure if its already been addressed but hope everyone noticed the court date was determined:
“Although U.S. District Court Judge Marsha Pechman came up with a June 16 trial date to settle the KeyArena lease spat ….. the NBA says it will determine before then whether to approve Clay Bennett’s relocation request to Oklahoma City.”
knowing there is a pending trial and potential grounds for sueing the NBA later on how do you guys think the owners will vote on relocation?!?!
January 30th, 2008 at 10:31 am
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-29-117/The-Sonics-May-be-Stuck-In-Seattle-for-at-Least-One-More-Season.html
My Favorite line—-”Having done so he has now opened himself up to potential criminal fraud charges on top of the already pending court case for violating the state consumer protection laws. “
January 30th, 2008 at 10:37 am
RIP Ben McMillan.
http://tinyurl.com/32al43
January 30th, 2008 at 10:38 am
SeeJ your good feeling about Spurs game was rewarded. I “hoped” it would go that way after Kings game too.
On Durant’s shooting:
When he shoots 20+ times (about 45% of time) he hit under 40% raw FG% 8 times, 40-50% 4 times, 50+% 5 times.
When he shoots 15-19 times (about 25% of time) he hit under 40% raw FG% 4 times, 40-50% 4 times, 50+% 4 times. He rate of weak shooting games (under 40%) falls from about half the time to just a third. This is small sample but some greater restraint is correlating with fewer weak shooting games. This is the favored or ‘right” range by the data.
When he shoots 14 or less (close to 30% of time) he hit under 40% raw FG% 11 times, 40-50% 0 times, 50+% 2 times. He clearly needs shots to warm up. But this concerns me. I wonder how much he shoots on gameday. Maybe he needs another half hour on top of the normal times like Ray Allen always would do. I don’t like a guy “warming up” in the real game which is what Durant often does.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:42 am
On getting to the line Durant gets 7+ free throws about a third of the time, 4-6 a third, 3 or less a third. Sometimes you don’t get whistles but hopefully the frequency of 3 or less free throws declines. He needs them, the team needs them.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:06 am
Like SeaSonics said - the article on Truehoop about the Sonics is great. Yay for exposure!
January 30th, 2008 at 11:06 am
Does anyone think that the NBA relocation committee will take the easy way out?
By that I mean, will they approve the relocation in April and then let the court be the bad guy and block the move in June/July?
Maybe if they believe that Seattle will not be victorious in any kind of lawsuit against the NBA as a whole?
January 30th, 2008 at 11:08 am
how did we win the game? no wilkins!!
January 30th, 2008 at 11:12 am
speedcat, for some reason I can’t log on to the message forum, so here’s my suggestion for the banner during the all star weekend: Sonics in OK, good for OK. Sonics in Seattle, good for NBA
January 30th, 2008 at 11:28 am
“Emanuel Ginobili will make Kevin Durant his ***** tonight. Y’all can bank on it.”
Dude, can it…..seriously. The last time we played the Spurs Durant owned on Manu all night…and last night he did it again. It’s funny that he lights up the stat column against a great defensive team(or at least two great defenders) and we don’t praise him like we knock him…pretty pathetic. All the critics find some way to discount what this kid can do.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:44 am
“Emanuel Ginobili will make Kevin Durant his bitch tonight. Y’all can bank on it. ”
Yeah, they cancelled each other out for the most part. Nice D by Earl on that last possession getting in Manu’s face and forcing him to shoot under duress.
“Perhaps the best defense against them is to play Duncan with just one defender and stay home with their numerous spot-up three-point shooters. ”
I’d agree for the most part. There are actually quite a few teams I’d play that way. In essence the strategy to concede the low post threat his points and rebounds since he is likely to get them anyways… and stay on the shooters instead has merit. Then it comes down to trying to control the glass and staying out of foul trouble.
January 30th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
“Dude, can it…..seriously. The last time we played the Spurs Durant owned on Manu all night…and last night he did it again. It’s funny that he lights up the stat column against a great defensive team(or at least two great defenders) and we don’t praise him like we knock him…pretty pathetic. All the critics find some way to discount what this kid can do.” {Joshu@}
Earlier within this thread, I gave Kevin Durant credit for his outstanding performance on offense last night. Notwithstanding Durant’s abysmal man-to-man and team defense, he deserves some props for living up to his billing. Nonetheless, it’s really irritating to me whenever people such as yourself treat Durant with kid gloves; that’s a putrid mixture of ignorance and homerism.
Emanuel Ginobili did a tad bit better than Durant, however, as he was more efficient from the field and played some decent defense. Yet, that didn’t surprise me on bit, since Ginobili is an all-around talent who’s quite possibly the most underrated player in the NBA. I expect that more folks will eventually respect Ginobili, but it’s too bad that he probably won’t be on the 2008 Western Conference All-Star Team.
January 30th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
It is tough to manage a 14 man roster and players will complain (West is the latest among many) but neither Presti or PJ seem to good communicators / positive vibe builders. They may think they do some of that but it seems clearly way short of what is needed to get a good vibe going. There is no “energy bus” without good management leader walkin the positive talk most of the time or active team captains (which they don’t seem to have and management seemed to prefer not to have). But whatever. Your show, your results.
January 30th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
The All-Star rookie team roster was announced today.
Congrats to our rookies Durant and Green for making the team!
January 30th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Sonics can match on West but he clearly doesnt like being here. I think it was pretty likely he wasn’t going to, being east coast and confronting a crowd for time but the way they’ve handle it seems pretty poor. Presti should have expected this type of challenge and worked with PJ to manage it better. If they match I don’t think he is likely to get happy about it. It is the Wilkins situation again. Not driving an energy bus this way.
But being hurt may be holding West back more than he will admit. Still time to get his experiment / evaluation in this spring.
The Spurs way is probably complex and not all rosy but nothing about the way Presti and PJ operate (based on what I can see & hear) suggest any magic gained there. RC and Pop used Presti and PJ as big hour subordinates so they could spend time on the big picture. I see no evidence PJ and Presti can handle the higher jobs to that level. But the next few years will prove out their level of management skill.
January 30th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Another key stat last night - 6 turnovers
January 30th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Green got there on draft rank. Noah is performing better- in fact has best rookie PER.
January 30th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Steve Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 10:37 am
RIP Ben McMillan.
http://tinyurl.com/32al43
I went to the show on the ticket stub in the blog story. I was a big Screaming Trees fan, I might have left half way through Alice in Chains, or maybe I am hoping I did. I think I have a Sweet Oblivion t-shirt from that show. A friend of a friend printed a lot of shirts for a lot of local bands back then.
46, that is rough.
January 30th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
In light of the countless rumors swirling around Jason Kidd, here’s my latest trade proposal.
FROM DALLAS
PG Jason Terry ($8,898,000)
SF Jerry Stackhouse ($6,750,000)
SF Devean George ($2,369,111)
SG Maurice Ager ($974,400)
FROM MIAMI
PG Jason Williams ($8,937,500)
SG Ricky Davis ($6,819,000)
FROM NEW JERSEY
PG Jason Kidd ($19,728,000)
FROM PHILADELPHIA
SG Willie Green ($3,094,000)
TO DALLAS
PG Jason Kidd ($19,728,000)
SG Willie Green ($3,094,000)
TO MIAMI
PG Jason Terry ($8,898,000)
SF Jerry Stackhouse ($6,750,000)
TO NEW JERSEY
PG Jason Williams ($8,937,500)
SG Ricky Davis ($6,819,000)
TO PHILADELPHIA
SF Devean George ($2,369,111)
SG Maurice Ager ($974,400)
http://tinyurl.com/2vj4qp
1. The Dallas Mavericks obtain the services of Jason Kidd, whose playmaking, leadership, and defensive skills should put them in the driver’s seat for winning the 2008 NBA Championship. Willie Green would be a solid addition, too, as he’d provide an offensive sparkplug off of the bench as Eddie Jones’ backup at shooting guard.
2. The Miami Heat spin the expiring contracts of Ricky Davis and Jason Williams — who vastly underperformed this season — into Jerry Stackhouse and Jason Terry. Alongside Dwyane Wade, Stackhouse and Terry could help attempt to revive a struggling franchise. It’d be a tough chore, though.
3. The New Jersey Nets need to begin the rebuilding process, with the acquisition of Ricky Davis and Jason Williams — who both have expiring contracts — being a prime way to initiate that treacherous process.
4. The Philadelphia 76ers are in the midst of dismantling its roster to prepare for the upcoming off-season, so turning Willie Green’s long-term deal into Devean George’s expiring contract — as well as a young, cheap prospect in Maurice Ager — would further that objective.
January 30th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Nonetheless, it’s really irritating to me whenever people such as yourself treat Durant with kid gloves; that’s a putrid mixture of ignorance
…not as putrid as Alex’s unsubstantiated hatred towards the San Antonio Spurs. Its really too bad that you don’t understand the game well enough to realize how exciting the Spurs are as a team…
January 30th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
“Sonics can match on West but he clearly doesnt like being here. I think it was pretty likely he wasn’t going to, being east coast and confronting a crowd for time but the way they’ve handle it seems pretty poor. Presti should have expected this type of challenge and worked with PJ to manage it better. If they match I don’t think he is likely to get happy about it. It is the Wilkins situation again. Not driving an energy bus this way. ”
It’s really the same problem the club has had for some time; not enough defined roles from coaching staff & upper mgmt but also not many players playing consistently enough to earn a defined role.
West’s injuries haven’t helped his case but from what I have seen of him this year he really is a tweener. Doesn’t really have a PGs floor instincts or demeanor and is also posting a third straight year of declining effectiveness offensively.
What is his calling card in this league? Statwise he’s looking more like a backup than a starter; if that’s the case I don’t see the Sonics retaining West because they have enough guys that fall into that description already. If he’s destined to be a 3rd guard type that’s not a roster position that really needs a long term financial commitment, IMO.
West should look at Brent Barry’s career path and decide whether he’ll be better at spot up shooting or driving/slashing. If he can become a reliable 3 pt shooter like BB maybe teams would have a better idea of how to use him.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Green got there on draft rank. Noah is performing better- in fact has best rookie PER.
- Im a big fan of PER…but Im pretty sure the reason Noah didn’t make it is because his own team has decided to not even play him 8 games this year…and only for a total of 15mpg…well at least they have Joe Smith, right?
January 30th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
“…not as putrid as Alex’s unsubstantiated hatred towards the San Antonio Spurs. Its really too bad that you don’t understand the game well enough to realize how exciting the Spurs are as a team… ”
Jesus, if you don’t like watching the Spurs you don’t undertand the game? For once, could you not take things to such retarded extremes?
January 30th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Jesus, if you don’t like watching the Spurs you don’t undertand the game? For once, could you not take things to such retarded extremes?
pot, meet kettle.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
Ginobli is a body surfing flopper, that does not get you a lot of votes from fans or coaches from other teams, he does a lot of great things, but it is hard to get respect when acting so disrespectful, though he does have rings, and an Oscar for Life is Beautiful.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
“West should look at Brent Barry’s career path and decide whether he’ll be better at spot up shooting or driving/slashing. If he can become a reliable 3 pt shooter like BB maybe teams would have a better idea of how to use him.” {Steve}
Look, Steve, Brent Barry was a productive starter in the NBA for several years. Furthermore, Barry had an array of talents — which included percision passing, superb shooting, and amazing athleticism — that made him one of the most versatile combo guards during his prime. That, without a doubt, isn’t the case with Delonte West.
It’s plainly obvious that West’s calling card will be as a backup combo guard, which means that he needs to work on his ball-handling, slashing techniques, and spot-up shooting from beyond the arc. West should check out some older tapes of Bobby Jackson and Derek Anderson, as they’ve made careers for themselves by being that type of player.
While I wish West the best in the future, this season should be his only one with the Seattle Supersonics. Due to West’s lack of pure point guard skills and inability to challenge either Luke Ridnour nor Earl Watson, he’s basically shown himself the door.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
I fucking hate that goddamn italics tag.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Ginobli is a body surfing flopper, that does not get you a lot of votes from fans or coaches from other teams, he does a lot of great things, but it is hard to get respect when acting so disrespectful, though he does have rings, and an Oscar for Life is Beautiful.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
If you thought I was comparing the two in terms of game, then you either missed the point or I didn’t make it very well.
I’m saying that he should look at BBs career and decide whether or not he wants to be a role playing shooter or more of a slashing type. Because right now he’s neither, so how do you use him?
January 30th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Good points Steve.
West hasn’t defined himself, hasn’t really sold himself for a big next contract. Some drive, some passing, some outside shooting has appeal but it isn’t pulled together and consistent here. I know he had same ambiguous game in Boston but he showed more there. He isn’t as glaring as Flip Murray but he is too close for his sake and the team’s.
Noah’s 15 minutes is pretty decent / typical for rookies but they seem to have gone more by minutes played than quality of performance. Not a big deal but I wanted to talk about Noah some and did further in the shipoopi thread.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
Agreed on BJ/DA. That’s an astute comparison. Ultimately West could be a player like that, although probably not as good as either.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
you really havent had a chance to see the real delonte west. because his confidence is down, i’m not sure seattle will ever get to see the type of player that he can be. it is very unfortunate.
i am not sure that they have handle his situation in the correct manner- instead of building confidence they have killed his confidence.
according to the seattle time he doesnt even see time in practice- what is that about?? way to single out certain players. no wonder he looked a little lost on the offense last night (look ok on D). he hasnt seen that much time at the SG spot and he doesnt even get to go thru it at practice.
what is he suppose to do??
January 30th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Man I am having tremendous problems posting today.
Anyways BB is a guy who began his career as more of a driving type but ended up as a spot up shooter. A lot of combo guards can look at his career as an example. Find the one thing you really do well and stick to it. In the end teams seem to prefer that in role players over guys who do a little bit of everything OK.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Maybe PJ is too focused?
He probably just focuses on one thing and lets everything else go.
Like at first he focused only on the zone defense, while totally neglecting other things like clock management, adjusting to what other teams are doing, offensive sets, setting a rotation, learning guys names, etc…
Now it seems he is focusing more on man defense and completely ignoring things like: players on his team, clock mangement, scouting, adjusting to what other teams are doing, developing more than 3 plays on offense, etc…
Just an observation………
January 30th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
West is closer to Jackson in size and game but being as long as he is he might have some potential to play spot up SG.
I know why Presti had interest in him but I wish Presti and PJ had a more defined role for him.
With a Derrick Rose he might fit better than with Ridnour/ Watson. Spot up mostly on offense but still a threat to go inside. I read somewhere that Portland with their PGs and Roy see it as basically dual potential pick n rolls all the time. They seem to be doing pretty well with that. They might be able to do that with Rose, West, Durant.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Maybe D. West will improve or even thrive in another setting…. but I simply have not been impressed with his game. If they do not trade him I hope the Sonics just let him walk this summer & give his roster spot & $$$ to someone else.
I don’t know if it is him - poor coaching that is not reaching him - inujries - bad Karma or what - but D. West seems to me to lack passion - he just is not into it here. Even when healthy he is totally inconsistent.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
West is probably not getting practice time because he’s been hurt. He has to get healthy before he starts complaining about minutes and/or his role.
IMO he’s shown that he’s not a starting point guard. I’d still like to see him get more time at 2 guard but it’s not like he’s going to displace Durant.
Like others have said, he’d be a useful backup combo guard… instant energy and offense off the bench and a guy to take over ball-handling duties for 10 minutes a night while your starting PG rests.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
I agree Vinny that PJ seems to focus on one thing at a time. And in a year given to evaluation they are letting themselves have you can rationalize it. But in the real NBA they will have to play in coaches have to management a dozen things at once and let one or two slip and you are beat.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
“West is probably not getting practice time because he’s been hurt. He has to get healthy before he starts complaining about minutes and/or his role.”
West said his foot has been fine for a month, so I think the recent injury claims are fabricated.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Having West & Jelly backup Rose & Durant next year would be fine by me.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Spurs probably make major changes with their bench this summer. This looks like last hurrah with Spurs for a lot guys there. Will be interesting to see how they do it and how successfully / quickly though a lot of the plan is obvious and already in the wings. The big 3 will make it easier of course.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
They need a backup PG.
They need a young wing.
Bonner Oberto Mahinimi Splitter maybe Elson still is fine for the bigs.
Be covered on your bigs is probably a bigger deal than backup perimeter.
Maybe they come after D West.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
To the Sonics- if they want West for future or for trade- he has to be healthy.
For West he wants to play to help in getting that next contract.
The 2 interests are quite different and there is friction there. Sonics protecting their asset. The little time West has gotten recently he has done so poorly he might be better off not playing.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
The overall chemistry of the team is better overall with Wilkins out of the rotation. It’s obvious he’s not happy with his role and he’s letting it affect his play on the court. Wally Z and Watson have also complained at times about their role, but they are still able to make positive contributions when they play. In my opinion the minutes at the back-up 2 should go to West, or Gelebale for the rest of the season. They still have a chance to be a part of this team in the future, while Wilkins doesn’t look to be a good fit long term.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Sonics probably thinking we have leverage in the situation. Yeah but it could end up with him taking the qualifying offer and then teamleft to rolling the dice to see if they can get a Radmanovic like trade or end up with a Flip Murray type trade.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Five Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 11:12 am
“speedcat, for some reason I can’t log on to the message forum, so here’s my suggestion for the banner during the all star weekend: Sonics in OK, good for OK. Sonics in Seattle, good for NBA ”
Five, thanks for your thoughts. We’ve decided to allow those who have donated to make the decision on what the airplane banner text will be.
Sorry for the repeat below, regular readers. I have promised myself to include this in every thread on the Main Blog. Flame me if you wish.
UPDATE: We have $980 in the PayPal account to fly the airplane banner. GREAT WORK SONICS FANS!!!
For those who do not know, we will be flying a banner over New Orleans Arena during All Star weekend that says, “STOP CLAY - SONICS MUST STAY!” Check out this thread for more information:
http://www.sonicscentral.com/bboard/viewtopic.php?t=6403
Anyone who wants to donate, please get a PayPal account, log in, choose to Send Money, and send your donation to sonicsfansunited@yahoo.com. Choose “Service/Other” instead of “Goods”. And make mention of your screen name so we know who to credit the donation to!
If you don’t have funds in your PayPal account already, just do a credit/debit card donation. They are instant.
Try to avoid “EChecks” - they take forever to clear the bank.
Rock on Sonics Fans!!
January 30th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
In which of my posts on this thread did I say that the Spurs weren’t exciting? Most people don’t find them exciting; that’s fine if you do. I don’t want to see the NBA have to go through another Western Conference Finals with a 3.0 rating on network television. I’m a fan of the NBA and I want the league to do well. Even if the Sonics leave, I will remain one of the few diehards in this city who continue to follow this great league.
Are you drinking again Myk? If you are, please stay off the roads for the ten percent of us, according to your internal stats, who don’t drink and drive.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Singing Damon Stoudemire reminds me of when the Spurs signed Nick Van Exel. That signing didn’t work out that well for them in 2005.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
The coaches should vote Manu Ginobili onto the all-star team. He has been the third-best shooting guard in the NBA the last three-four seasons and contrary to Simmons’ assertion that Duncan is the only top-15 player on the Spurs, Ginobili is one of the league’s fifteen best players.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Thaddeus Young, in addition to Joakim Noah, is another guy I believe who has outperformed Jeff Green this season. Green has been better than Corey Brewer and Al Thornton if that is any consolation.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Got back late last night from five days in Vegas. Cool little side note……..who should appear at the gate in Vegas just prior to boarding…..
Mr. Haywood, would Mr. Spencer Haywood please report to the ticket counter?
Good to see the Sonics finally break that losing streak. Was hoping Presti would have pulled off a trade while I was gone, but alas…….it was not to be. More injuries on other teams could mean more demand for Sonic players to fill in the holes…..
Some usable pieces here, but as has been said a plenty…….this roster needs to major work.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
I like jeff green and I think he going to be a good player in the nba but he need to step up his game alittle more for this team to win..some games he looks lost out there and not sure what to do. I hope he starts to post up alittle more and start to hit that 15 foot jumper
January 30th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
“I like jeff green and I think he going to be a good player in the nba but he need to step up his game alittle more for this team to win..some games he looks lost out there and not sure what to do. I hope he starts to post up alittle more and start to hit that 15 foot jumper”
Noone on this team knows what to do concerning offensive sets. Green played at Georgetown in a Princeton style offense. He was as versatile as you can get for a guy his size. He understands offense, what is stifling is the lack thereof. THat is the reality. Get a an offensive mind in here and a little more synergy and you will see a different Jeff Green and a different Sonics team.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
“Thaddeus Young, in addition to Joakim Noah, is another guy I believe who has outperformed Jeff Green this season. Green has been better than Corey Brewer and Al Thornton if that is any consolation.” {Alex Chan}
Of the highly rated small forwards who were available with the fifth pick in the 2007 NBA Draft, Thaddeus Young had the most potential. Conversely, Jeff Green, Corey Brewer, and Al Thornton were all known as polished products who didn’t have too much upside. Unfortunately, though, none of them seem like they’ll pan out as anything more than a career role player.
Regarding Young, the Philadelphia 76ers ought to part with Willie Green in the same manner as Kyle Korver. For starters, it’d allow Andre Iguodala to slide over from point forward back to his natural position of shooting guard. More importantly, however, Young would have the chance to prove himself in the starting lineup at small forward.
The 76ers’ poor man’s version of Allen Iverson, Louis Williams, also deserves a chance to shine; yet, that opportunity will only come once Andre Miller is dealt elsewhere. The Orlando Magic could use a methodical floor general like Miller — who’d split time with the gunslinging Jameer Nelson at point guard — and, in all likelihood, the expiring contracts of Carlos Arroyo and Pat Garrity would be enticing enough to obtain him.
Of course, I’d still like to see Sam Presti jump on the Magic’s surplus of expiring contracts — especially as a means to slash payroll for the 2008-2009 season — before any other front office executive beats him to the punch. Yeah, I’m still pushing the following trade proposal.
FROM ORLANDO & TO SEATTLE
PG Carlos Arroyo ($4,000,000)
PF Pat Garrity ($3,818,000)
SG Keyon Dooling ($3,560,000)
FROM SEATTLE & TO ORLANDO
SF Wally Szczerbiak ($12,000,000)
PG Delonte West ($1,889,760)
http://tinyurl.com/2fbndb
That’s a pipe dream, though.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-29-117/The-Sonics-May-be-Stuck-In-Seattle-for-at-Least-One-More-Season.html
Adam silver and Clay look like prom dates in this picture.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
“Noone on this team knows what to do concerning offensive sets. Green played at Georgetown in a Princeton style offense. He was as versatile as you can get for a guy his size. He understands offense, what is stifling is the lack thereof. THat is the reality. Get a an offensive mind in here and a little more synergy and you will see a different Jeff Green and a different Sonics team.” {Joshu@}
The only coach who runs the Princeton offense in the NBA is Rick Adelman of the Houston Rockets, but it’s really a bastardized version of the original scheme that also mixes in some flex motion sets. The best fit for Jeff Green, however, would be the 2-1-2 high-post offense that Mike D’Antoni frequently utilizes as head coach of the Phoenix Suns. As it is, though, the Suns already have Grant Hill and Boris Diaw splitting time as its high-post facilitator within that system.
Although I oftentimes rag on Green for his mediocre jump shot, propensity to commit ball-handling turnovers, and lack of assertiveness, it’s easy to envision him passing sharply to a cutting Shawn Marion for an alley-oop, dishing the rock to an open Raja Bell for a three-pointer, or draining a mid-range jumper from the elbow via a pick-’n'-pop play from Steve Nash.
Yet, with the Seattle Supersonics, Green is stuck playing for a complete dumbass in P.J. Carlesimo who doesn’t know shit from shine. While Green definitely has his flaws, a smarter coach would attempt to mask those deficiencies and simultaneously capitalize on his positive qualities. I highly doubt that such a transition is in the cards, so the misuse of Green will continue for the foreseeable future.
January 30th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
“Adam silver and Clay look like prom dates in this picture. ”
Yeah, it’s more than a little disturbing. Clay’s expression looks like he’s ready to go plow the back 40, if you catch my drift.
January 30th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Ballaholic said: “West said his foot has been fine for a month, so I think the recent injury claims are fabricated.”
Plantar fasciitis doesn’t just “go away” in a month. I suspect it’s probably better than it was, but not fully fixed yet. Maybe Delonte’s feigning health just to get on the court, in much the same way Rid has in the past? And maybe PJ’s onto him?
If he’s only a month into rehabbing it and I’m coach, there’s no way I’m playing him more than about 15mins a game either. He’d be hopping about the next day.
January 30th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Steve: … and Silver’s expression looks like he’s ready to let him, too.
January 30th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Agreed on the ten-ways-awesome Truehoop article, which is a brilliant rundown of the whole thing.
The interesting quote was right at the bottom, though… one of the team’s lawyers telling the judge that if the trial date was set after May, she had in effect already decided whether the Sonics were playing here next year or not (in other words, anything after May is too late for the Sonics to relocate to OKC for next season).
I’m not calling next season being in Seattle yet, but this is a really good sign that it will be.
January 30th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
To add, before anyone else asks, given that I’ve been through it recently…
Standard rehab for plantar fasciitis is six weeks. It’s recommended that you do absolutely nothing for those six weeks. Walking, swimming and cycling are the only things permitted. Any form of running is right out.
Even after those six weeks, it isn’t cured per se. It’s just an order of magnitude better. I am four months into rehab as I type, and still have bad days after I push myself.
And I don’t recall Delonte taking six weeks off.
January 30th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
I got plantar fascitits from wearing cheap shoes without enough support. I’m surprised that any pro athlete gets that. They should be wearing the very best footwear from day one. All of them should have custom-made insoles that would prevent plantar fascitis from ever occuring. Mine was finally cured after getting custom insoles and putting them in shoes with very stiff supports in the arches. You can get shoes with either carbon or steel shanks in them to give your fee a lot of support.
The shoe store which made my insoles has a pair of custom shoes which they made for Jerome James when he was in town. They took his regular shoes which he wore in games and put steel shanks in the soles for support. The guy who runs that store said Jerome had stress fractures throughout his feet. That’s gotta hurt.
January 30th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Here is another good link/article:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004153119_sonicstrial30m.html
The one just above posted by Akisyhomie from ESPN is a very good summary.
January 30th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
AK….
I like your basic vision to try & trade Wally for expiring contracts but doubt Orlando would go for the idea you present.
January 30th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
What do you all think of this trade - it works according to real GM
http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewforum.php?f=2
Sonics send Wilcox & Watson to orlando for 3 guys with expiring contracts: Arroyo, Garrity & Dooling
My thought is I don’t care anything about what these 3 Magic bring to the court - I like the idea of getting rid of Watsons 2 more years after this season. I don’t mind having wilcox around next year for 1 more year - but this trade does free up more money for flexibility next year.
Orland could use Wilcox as a #4 to help Howard & would have to take Watson to give PG depth - kind of take Arroyo’s place.
January 30th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
Here is another Orlando/Sonics trade with Kurt T. & Watson going to Orlando for 5 expiring contracts.
KT gives Orlando valuable depth & inside play for their playoff run this year & Watson becomes their back-up PG.
KT’s contract expires next year which makes it a no-risk deal for Orlando. They become stuck with Watson - but they might do this for KT’s value this year.
http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/3/
January 30th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Sorry about the links above to realGM… they don’t weem to work but the trades came up as good.
Just tossing ideas out. Obvioulsy I favor dealing Earl for Expiring contracts if possible.
January 30th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
“Here is another Orlando/Sonics trade with Kurt T. & Watson going to Orlando for 5 expiring contracts.
KT gives Orlando valuable depth & inside play for their playoff run this year & Watson becomes their back-up PG.
KT’s contract expires next year which makes it a no-risk deal for Orlando. They become stuck with Watson - but they might do this for KT’s value this year.” {JJ}
I’m not sure about the specifics of your trade proposal, but the Seattle Supersonics don’t have the roster flexibility trade just 2 players for 5 guys in return for them. My guess is that the 5 guys in question are Carlos Arroyo, Pat Garrity, Keyon Dooling, Maurice Evans, and James Augustine.
In any event, Stan Van Gundy runs a 4-out/1-inside motion offense with the Orlando Magic. That, therefore, allows Van Gundy to use perimeter oriented players like Rashard Lewis and Brian Cook at power forward without disrupting the offensive flow.
Furthermore, Dwight Howard — who’s combination of monstrous strength and spectacular athleticism hasn’t been seen since the days of Moses Malone — roams that painted area like a goddamn beast; he’s currently the most talented and productive center in the NBA, too. Howard’s backup, Adonal Foyle, does an adequate job in that role for roughly 8 minutes per game.
Anyhow, the Magic don’t have much use for a high-post player like Kurt Thomas or a versatile pivotman such as Chris Wilcox — who can score with both his face and back to the basket, but is a liability on defense — since the team implements an offensive scheme that wouldn’t suit either of them.
Hell, I’m curious as to what’ll happen with Tony Battie upon his return next season from a torn rotator cuff in his right shoulder this past fall. As strictly a high-post player in the same vein as Thomas, Battie’s skill set doesn’t mesh with Van Gundy’s system. At any rate, though, that’s not real a pressing matter.
January 30th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Portland’s leading Cleveland by 11 points in the third quarter. We play the Cav’s tommorow.
Second Sonics victory over an NBA finals team?
January 30th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
Great article, AKismyhomie! Thanx for sharing it. Sooo nice to get supportive press around this issue.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
“Portland’s leading Cleveland by 11 points in the third quarter. We play the Cav’s tommorow.
Second Sonics victory over an NBA finals team?”
Nope, they have a guy by the name of Lebron James that pulverized them in the 4th.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Brandon Roy got schooled tonight by LeBron. However, LeBron seemed to insinuate that he may not be able to go tomorrow night.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
“Furthermore, Dwight Howard — who’s combination of monstrous strength and spectacular athleticism hasn’t been seen since the days of Moses Malone…”
Right. Apparently you never actually saw Moses Malone play in the NBA. Malone was not by any stretch of the imagination a spectacular athlete nor did he possess monstrous strength.
Ever hear of Darryl Dawkins? His strength and athleticism dwarfed Moses Malone. Even moreso for David Robinson. You think Howard’s chiselled from granite - take another look at the Admiral.
Moses Malone succeeded primarily because of superior desire, determination, and a willingness to outwork his opponents on a nightly basis.
Howard’s definitely a monster - but get your analogies straight.
As to potential trades with Orlando, AK’s right - the Magic have no use for Wilcox or to a lesser degree Thomas. Wally would fit in nicely as another scorer to stretch the D, but then again why would Orlando want to dump those expiring contracts now when they can wait until the summer and see what’s available then in the free agent market.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
“Nope, they have a guy by the name of Lebron James that pulverized them in the 4th.”
Yep. Just got done watching that. Someone on the sidelines mouthed off to LeBron which really set him off.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
Speaking of pulverized, Michael Beasley dominated #2 ranked Kansas (a stout defensive team mind you) offensively inside and out even though he was smothered throughout the game with double teams. I’m still not sure if he’ll be better at PF than SF in the NBA, but that was pretty damn impressive.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
I have noticed this season that there have been quite a few games where a team plays in Portland one night, then plays in Seattle the next night. This is a big advantage for Seattle, obviously.
Does the NBA ever schedule those road trips the other way, where the teams play in Seattle the first night, then play in Portland the next night? So Portland would get the advantage of playing teams on the 2nd of back-to-back games?
I have not really paid much attention to this in the past. But it is happening to Cleveland, and it will happen to N.Y. when they play in Portland this Friday, then in Seattle the next night. I noticed that happened several times earlier this year, also.
It will happen again to Phoenix (in Port. Mar 16, in SEA Mar 17); to WAS (in Por Mar 25, in Seat Mar 26); HOU (in POR Apr 3, in SEA Apr 4); DAL (in POR Apr 12, in SEA Apr 13).
This seems to be quite an advantage for the Sonics.
I expect the Sonics to beat Cleveland tomorrow, just like they beat S.A. last night, mainly because it’s a back-back game for the Cavs, and Seattle has been home for 9 straight days. Also because it was a close game tonight in Portland, where LeBron played 44 minutes, Ilgauskus 34 minutes, etx. And close games are much more exhausting because the last 5 minutes was all under pressure, which wears players out. Had that game been a blowout either way, I think Cleveland would not be nearly as tired tomorrow night, as they will be.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Speaking of pulverized, Michael Beasley dominated #2 ranked Kansas (a stout defensive team mind you) offensively inside and out even though he was smothered throughout the game with double teams. I’m still not sure if he’ll be better at PF than SF in the NBA, but that was pretty damn impressive.
Would be really interesting if the Sonics end up with the first pick in the draft or somehow the second and Beasley is on the board.
Couple points to consider. Most people here are way enamored with Derrick Rose’s game and as they should be, but many also think that if you are going to build a champion you have to have at least one dominant inside scorer and would be best suited to have a dominant inside presense to match up with Durant. So do you get that through a trade? From someone on the Roster (Wilcox? Green? etc) or do you draft that player?
Second point, Presti has apparently made the comment at some point that he likes 6′9″+ versitile players to build a team with…..
Durant = 6′10″ SG/SF
Green = 6′9″ SF/PF
Beasley = 6′9″ SF/PF
Now the problem that could pose would be what to do with Green? Sixth man until he proves he deserves a bigger role? Anyways, if you could find your PG/SG with other picks, trades and fill in the center position having a core of Durant and Beasley could be a matchup nightmare for other teams.
If for some reason lottery time came around and the Sonics won the #1 pick, I would have to say, Beasley would have to be something the Sonics would have to consider. Maybe they still go with Rose, but hard to pass up a guy like Beasley who can dominate in the paint and take PF’s out on the perimeter. Given Beasley’s reputation the Sonic’s current lack of guidance the Sonic’s would have to bring in a much better coach to manage the development of the two players.
Anyways, just food for thought, following on ajw’s comment regarding Beasley.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
“Furthermore, Dwight Howard — who’s combination of monstrous strength and spectacular athleticism hasn’t been seen since the days of Moses Malone…”
You did not see Shaq play in his early years?
Darryl Dawkins is a great call, also. “Chocolate Thunder” from the planet “Lovetron.”
I agree that Moses was not that athletic. Had to love his game, though. And his confidence: “Fo, Fo, and Fo”; “Me and 4 guys named Joe could win the NBA championship.”
January 30th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
I did not post that link first. Seasonics did earlier in this thread.
Adam Silver and Clay do make a nice looking couple.
Note to Clay: keep your hands off waist in future pictures with NBA executives.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
Just reading a little about Darryl Dawkins, aka “Chocolate Thunder.”
He used to name some of his dunks. Here are some samples:
The Chocolate-Thunder-Flying, Robinzine-Crying, Teeth-Shaking, Glass-Breaking, Rump Roasting, Bun-Toasting, Wham-Bam-Glass-Breaker-I-Am-Jam;
In Your Face Disgrace;
The Go-rilla;
Earthquaker Shaker;
Candyslam;
Dunk You Very Much;
Look Out Below;
Yo Mama;
Turbo Sexophonic Delight;
Rim Wrecker;
Greyhound Bus;
Cover Your Head;
Spine Chiller Supreme;
Slam Bam Thank You Ma’am;
Walk Away From Love
January 30th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
Darryl Dawkins highlight clip. You may want to hit the mute button to skip the rap “music” that goes with it. Keep in mind Dawkins was 7 feet tall. And not skinny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68lNNJut_y8
January 30th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
Those Dawkins dunk nicknames are for Callabro and Snapper, who I know will get a kick out of hearing them again.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
While I love the fun of creating outrageous deals on ESPN’s trade machine, and also love reading about the details of other people’s outrageous and impossible deals, I just want to make sure that about .00000000001% of the deals ever proposed on NBA fan blogs have EVER been made.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:23 pm
“Does the NBA ever schedule those road trips the other way, where the teams play in Seattle the first night, then play in Portland the next night? So Portland would get the advantage of playing teams on the 2nd of back-to-back games?”
Good observation Dipper. I’m not surprised that you were the first regular on this blog to pick up on this scheduling anomaly. The “advantage” that you speak about has already taken place at least twice this season. Deember 15th against Utah and December 31st against the Sixers. In both games, the Sonics lost despite this “advantage.” I have not found an instance when Portland got to play a team on the second game of a back-to-back after playing the previous evening in Seattle. The league usually gives the road team a day of rest before playing the Blazers after the Sonics game.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Alex, I did find 2 times this season when teams play in Seattle and then in Portland the next night. So it is not just a one-way deal. But it seems to play in Seattle’s favor much more often than in Portland’s.
By the way, in all 10 games tonight, the team which had the higher fg% won.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
something I noticed about Durant against the Spurs: on fast breaks, when he’s out ahead, he often peels off for a possible jumper rather than running toward the hoop. He did it three times in the first half, twice in the second half.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
“Does the NBA ever schedule those road trips the other way, where the teams play in Seattle the first night, then play in Portland the next night? So Portland would get the advantage of playing teams on the 2nd of back-to-back games?”
Portland gets to play plenty of teams on the second night of back to backs. The first night team isn’t necessarily the Sonics, but does it matter or make some sort of difference if the Sonics or some other team is who the opponent played on the first night of the back to back before playing the Blazers?
Same with the other way around. Does it have some significance if it is the Blazers or some other franchise that is playing the Sonics opponent the first night of a back to back where the Sonics get the opponents second game?
January 30th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Which two games? You can add Minnesota on December 29th as another example of the second game of a Northwest back-to-back played in Seattle. The Sonics actually won that one.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
“Right. Apparently you never actually saw Moses Malone play in the NBA. Malone was not by any stretch of the imagination a spectacular athlete nor did he possess monstrous strength.
Ever hear of Darryl Dawkins? His strength and athleticism dwarfed Moses Malone. Even moreso for David Robinson. You think Howard’s chiselled from granite - take another look at the Admiral.
Moses Malone succeeded primarily because of superior desire, determination, and a willingness to outwork his opponents on a nightly basis.
Howard’s definitely a monster - but get your analogies straight.” {courtsense}
Yeah, Dwight Howard is really a hybrid of Moses Malone and Darryl Dawkins — who never developed a refined game, which greatly stunted his career — thus, I was originally incorrect with the direct comparison. That was my mistake.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
But it seems to play in Seattle’s favor much more often than in Portland’s.
Is it of significance to the Sonics if the team they are playing on the back of the opponents back to back games played their first night against the Blazers or the Nuggets? Does it make a difference to the Sonics if the opponent was the Lakers on the first night instead of the Blazers?
Same question regarding the Blazers? Does it matter if their opponents first game was against the Sonics or the Timberwolves?
In the end I don’t think it makes much of a difference unless you are talking about the first night oppenent being the Timberwolves as opposed to someone like the Suns or Hornets at this point.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
Frozen, the Portland-Seattle happens with far greater frequency than the other scenarios that you have presented. Teams that come to Seattle often face Portland on the same road trip. Teams won’t usually play in Minnesota, Phoenix, or New Orleans on one night and then the next night, face Seattle.
Dipper is merely pointing out that the Sonics appear to be getting somewhat of an advantage from a scheduling anomaly.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
Actually, I think FrozenRoper has a good point. It’s the total number of games each team plays which is the 2nd of a back-to-back for themselves, or for their opponents, which is important. I doubt if the NBA allows any team to have significantly more or fewer of those games than other teams do.
It looks to me like Seattle has about 15 games when they play having played the night before. If they also play 15 games where their opponents are playing the 2nd game in 2 nights, then that evens out.
I just find it curious that, since it makes sense for the NBA to schedule games in Portland and Seattle consecutively, to reduce the miles traveled by the visiting teams, they seem to play in Portland first so many more times than in Seattle first.
In the grand shceme of things, though, as Frozenroper points out, I don’t think it really matters. As long as the total number of back-to-back games is the same for every team in the league.
January 31st, 2008 at 12:00 am
Frozen, the Portland-Seattle happens with far greater frequency than the other scenarios that you have presented.
You really think teams playing the Blazers on the second night of back to backs played Seattle the First night more so than all other teams combined? I’d be surprised if that was the case and if it really makes any difference in the long run. If anything, this season the Blazers probably prefer teams to play the Sonics on the first night, as opposed to 95% of the other teams in the league, travel distance not taken into account, based purely on opponent strength.
Teams that come to Seattle often face Portland on the same road trip. Teams won’t usually play in Minnesota, Phoenix, or New Orleans on one night and then the next night, face Seattle.
Dipper is merely pointing out that the Sonics appear to be getting somewhat of an advantage from a scheduling anomaly.
What’s the real number here we are talking about when one takes the whole season into account? 2 or 3 games difference?
How many times does the Blazer’s opponent play the first night of a back to back against a team other than the Sonics? Need some context to compare this two. Only reason it might make a difference this season is because the Sonics suck and the teams get a relatively easy first night against us rather than teams getting a tough go of it if their first game is in Portland.
January 31st, 2008 at 12:03 am
The Portland-Seattle back-to-back sure beats the Minnesota-Utah back-to-back that the Sonics had to play earlier this season.
Back to backs is an idea that the league should look into eliminating at the end of the season. I feel that there is enough time in the season to play all eighty-two games without back-to-backs. Perhaps one reason why the league seems to endorse the back-to-back, despite some criticism from owners such as Mark Cuban, is that it improve the league’s competitive balance as some of the older teams, such as the Spurs, have notoriously struggled with the second game of a back-to-back.
January 31st, 2008 at 12:05 am
I just find it curious that, since it makes sense for the NBA to schedule games in Portland and Seattle consecutively, to reduce the miles traveled by the visiting teams, they seem to play in Portland first so many more times than in Seattle first.
Will be interesting to see what the numbers end up being over the course of the whole season. If it evans out a bit more when looking at only the Sonics and Blazers.
In the end, as you note above, I think the NBA would be somewhat careful in their scheduling and make sure teams play roughly an equal number of back to backs on the second night, regardless of the first night opponent. It may seem convenient in a small sample that teams are playing the Sonics more on the second night of first night Blazers games than the other way around, but you’d have to believe, as dipper notes, that its more likely that all teams have a realatively similar number of first and second night games in back to back scenarios, regardless of the opponents.
January 31st, 2008 at 12:10 am
The Portland-Seattle back-to-back sure beats the Minnesota-Utah back-to-back that the Sonics had to play earlier this season.
This is true.
January 31st, 2008 at 12:15 am
The Big Dipper said: “I got plantar fascitits from wearing cheap shoes without enough support. I’m surprised that any pro athlete gets that. They should be wearing the very best footwear from day one.”
Because it’s not just footwear that causes it. If your body is out of alignment (like mine is, thanks to a form of scoliosis), you’re often putting more weight on some parts of your feet than others. And before you know it… the dreaded PF.
I would suspect that this is more the case with pro athletes that get it. The most common cause I would imagine is having overly flat feet to begin with. I know a lot of people who have wound up with orthotics (and had their problems with PF) because of this.
January 31st, 2008 at 12:16 am
I think the league may like back-to-back games for road teams because it gives the home team a big advantage, and the league probably likes the home team to win most of the time, so fans will keep buying tickets.
I agree that back-to-back games should be eliminated. I think that Cleveland is really at a disadvantage tomorrow, as S.A. was last night. It does give Seattle a better chance of winning those games at home.
In my opinion, only the home team should ever be playing 2 nights in a row. If you are on a home stand, you could easily play 2 consecutive nights at home, because there would not be any travel, which really tires teams out. Notice the Supes have this long 7-game homestand, with a day off between every game. They could play a couple of these games without a night off without hurting them much, in my opinion. But, again, I think the league likes the home team to have as much of an advantage as possible, so that the home team usually wins, and the paying customers are happy.
I have heard some old-times say that NBA teams used to play on 3 or 4 consecutive nights! Now those games which were on the 3rd or 4th consecutive night were probably very poorly-played games.
January 31st, 2008 at 12:24 am
Dipper,
I had a close-up view (from 5 rows up behind the scorer’s table) of some priceless hijinks created by Darryl Dawkins when his Nets team visited Seattle in ‘86 or ‘87 - but I doubt the sheer comedic genius of the situation would translate in this forum.
It involved 2 quick technicals in the 1st quarter, a subsequent ejection, animated cheers and jeers from the Seattle fans, and a series of choice gestures by Dawkins as he leisurely strolled from one end of the floor to the bench and then to the locker room. Still the funniest thing I’ve ever seen at an NBA game. Well, other than Xavier McDaniel choking Wes Matthews on the sideline…
January 31st, 2008 at 4:01 am
My recent CT results have shown my spine to be genetically deformed, but I’m getting my orthotic insoles in a few weeks so I may be taking over a court near you soon.
Tonight’s game is why Green is on the Sonics, to be a shutdown defender down the road on team’s superstars. Ya’ll can’t expect Green to focus on stopping Lebron from taking over the game and at the same time have a perfect offensive game himself. A two-way player like myself focuses first on learning the defensive nuances of the game and then takes over on offensive when the time is right…year 2.
January 31st, 2008 at 8:31 am
Regarding back-to-back game scheduling and fairness:
You have been examining this from issue from a very limited perspective. You have failed to consider the potential impact on the local strip clubs in each market.
January 31st, 2008 at 9:24 am
It would be hard to pass up beasley if rose was gone. I really think its either DeAndre Jordan or Rose. Jordan can take some of the pressure off durant by being a low post threat. And quote me in three years, but Jordan is going to be a center everyone is going to wish they had. Similarities…Dwight Howard.
January 31st, 2008 at 9:36 am
“If for some reason lottery time came around and the Sonics won the #1 pick, I would have to say, Beasley would have to be something the Sonics would have to consider. Maybe they still go with Rose, but hard to pass up a guy like Beasley who can dominate in the paint and take PF’s out on the perimeter.”
First off, I would like to apologize…my comments directed toward AK were too charged and inappropriate. My bad.
Second…the more that I observe the situation, the less I am interested in drafting a PG. Especially after this year. Very few PG’s(even the ones that will EVENTUALLY be HOFer’s) develop as quickly as guys like Deron Williams and Tony Parker. Seeing what a lack of PG is doing to this team this year makes me really want a guy like Beasley. I realize that we all have our opinions about Jeff Green, that is fine. Having said that 3 6′9″ players at 2, 3,4 who can all run and pass well(and having two that can stroke the cotton from everywhere on the floor) presents mis-matches for other teams that I like(i.e. our games against the Spurs.) Not to mention the fact that those passing lanes are almost all gone now on the defensive end. Anyway, that is all I have for now.
January 31st, 2008 at 10:23 am
Yes, it could make for some very intriguing discussion after the lottery takes place.
Imagine if the team gets a chance to trade for another mid-round pick and could possibly snag Beasley with a top pick and Darren Collison (PG) UCLA, with the mid-round pick……Would probably need to add a big backup PG to balance out Colison’s size, or lack there of, but it would be something I would have a hard time passing up.
PG: Darren Collison / Ridnour
SG: Durant / Draft Pick / Free Agent (MLE)
SF: Green / Wally Z
PF: Beasley / Nick Collison / Petro
C: Swift / Sene / Draft Pick
Presti would definately need to do some roster clearing, Wilcox, Watson, Thomas and Wilkins, possibly through trade and or letting contracts expire. Anyways, somthing to think about.
January 31st, 2008 at 10:25 am
I wouldn’t draft DeAndre Jordan if I were the GM. Still too raw and the Sonics need another bigman project like a hole in the head. He’s not at all of the finsihed product that recent big man players Lemarcus Alderidge and Greg Oden were in college.
I’ve been thinking of a little different route lately( just for the fun of it). If Seattle picked Beasley( for small forward), then I’m wondering if they have the assets whereby they could land another pick in the low teens. Could the Suns pick, Wilcox, one of the young centers, and perhaps next years first round pick be enough to move into position to draft Durants college buudy, DJ Augustin?
The guy is playing as well as any pointguard in the country right now. He’s a tad undersized for sure, but it isn’t fazing him at the college level. I’ve read where he’s said to be a better version of TJ Ford, and compared to Ray Felton with a better jumpshot. The guy is one of those guards that can penetrate and get to the rim whenever he wants. Imagine him using that ability to penetrate and having a choice of Durant or Beasley to dish the ball to. With Collison at power forward and Green being the sixth man at both forward positions, it could be a nice core for many years.
Why not try for two players that could step in next year? There’s a handful of really good pointguards in this years draft. Just throwing it out for fun.
January 31st, 2008 at 10:27 am
Once again I get beat to the punch by frozenropers. Good call. I better learn to type quicker.
January 31st, 2008 at 10:34 am
Summary of overall schedule toughness for teams:
http://www.nbastuffer.com/articles/How_Fair_is_NBA_Schedule_.html
Sonics with most games on 1 day rest, Portland least. Portland one of the higher on own back to backs, Seattle least.
Not sure opponent schedule has been studied publically this way but I will suggest it to the author of that site.
January 31st, 2008 at 10:37 am
Why not try for two players that could step in next year? There’s a handful of really good pointguards in this years draft. Just throwing it out for fun.
You were more long winded, so I beat ya. ;o)
Anyways, definately along the same lines of thought. I like Collison a little better than Augustin, but there are going to be alot of different directions the front office could go if they manage to get another mid-round pick through trade and get lucky in the lottery.
Your comment of starting Beasley at the SF position with Nick Collison starting at the PF position would be another solid option. The team really could have alot of options with lineups having Durant, Green, Beasley and N. Collison around. I think Durant eventually ends up at SF, but Durant at SG, Beasley at SF and N. Collison at PF would be a nice group as well, with Green backing up both forward positions.
January 31st, 2008 at 10:39 am
Portland does get near the top on games with 2 days rest while Seattle is low. Whether you prefer 1 or 2 days rest varies by player and team.
January 31st, 2008 at 10:40 am
Portland one of the higher on own back to backs, Seattle least.
Am I reading that correctly? Doesn’t it say Seattle only has 1 back to back? That can’t be right?
January 31st, 2008 at 10:44 am
One other one just for fun. I read where Gonzaga’s pointguard, Jeremy Pargo, played well against Derrick Rose last night, getting 25 points and 7 assists. At 6′ 2″ and well over 200lbs. he’s very aggressive on the defensive end. I’ve always liked his brother, Jannero Pargo from the Hornets and felt that he has been undervalued as he’s been stuck behind Chris Paul in New Orleans and Kirk Hinrich before that. When given good playing time he has managed a few games with over 20 points to go along with good assists numbers.
Why not get both brothers together?
January 31st, 2008 at 10:48 am
Okay, here is my shot at the trade machine:
New Jersey:
Kidd –> Dallas
Dallas:
Hassel –> Seattle
Harris –> Seattle
Terry –> New Jersey
Seattle:
Thomas –> New Jersey
West –> Dallas
What does everyone get:
New Jersey gets someone who can play the point, and a nice sized expiring contract (also an inside presence that the team could use if it were really contending for anything).
Dallas gets Kidd and a back-up at point. Dallas also sheds a contract for a rarely used player (Hassel).
Seattle gets a solid, NBA proven, young point guard for the future (at the cost of absorbing Hassel’s contract). A legit PG in the hand is worth lottery balls in the bush.
Which team would blink at this deal . . . I’m thinking that Dallas would.
January 31st, 2008 at 10:56 am
Darren Collison:
His best case comparison for the NBA is Earl Watson!
nuff said?
January 31st, 2008 at 10:57 am
speedcat, just sent my donation to the account. Thanks for all the work!
January 31st, 2008 at 10:59 am
Darren Collison:
His best case comparison for the NBA is Earl Watson!
nuff said?
Well, that’s only if you actually believe those “best case” and “worst case” scenario’s actually are worth more than a hill of beans….which they aren’t.
January 31st, 2008 at 11:05 am
Frozenropers I forgot to clarify that on that chart the back to back column is really back to backs in isolation- those not part of 3 in 4 days or 4 in 5day patterns. There areindeed back to backs in those columns. Sorry for the confusion, I forgot that part.
January 31st, 2008 at 11:09 am
Seattle and Portland are near average on experience of 3 games in 4 days.
January 31st, 2008 at 11:18 am
On purely individual offensive efficency in college Augustin is ahead righ tnow followed by Bayless and then a gap.
On the broader stat summary provided by Win Score (debated / not perfect) it is Lawson, Collison, Gordon (if you count him as PG capable) Augustin, Rose, Bayless and Mayo.
Of course these are not an adequate basis for drafting a PG on their own. Translation to NBA varies as does undercounted defense and that elusive “leadership” which can affect team +/- and winning a lot.
January 31st, 2008 at 11:20 am
Frozenropers I forgot to clarify that on that chart the back to back column is really back to backs in isolation- those not part of 3 in 4 days or 4 in 5day patterns. There areindeed back to backs in those columns. Sorry for the confusion, I forgot that part.
Gotcha, that makes a little more sense. Would be nice if the bakc to backs showed how many each team played during the course of the full season. Just me personally, I think that would be a little more meaningful, otherwise the numbers are so sliced and diced that its hard to get a real good feel for what they really mean.
January 31st, 2008 at 11:23 am
The younger Pargo does have an assist rate above the big name PGs but lack of 3 pt stroke probably would be an issue at the moment. His older brother is playing well recently.
January 31st, 2008 at 11:32 am
The total Back to Backs can be computed roughly (may be not precisely). There is one in 3 in 4 days and 2 in 4 in 5 days so total back to back looks like Portland had 18 and Seattle 11.
Collegiate Pargo has a pretty high TO rate compared to a few of the elite PG names I checked.
January 31st, 2008 at 11:37 am
“Okay, here is my shot at the trade machine:
New Jersey:
Kidd –> Dallas
Dallas:
Hassel –> Seattle
Harris –> Seattle
Terry –> New Jersey
Seattle:
Thomas –> New Jersey
West –> Dallas
What does everyone get:
New Jersey gets someone who can play the point, and a nice sized expiring contract (also an inside presence that the team could use if it were really contending for anything).
Dallas gets Kidd and a back-up at point. Dallas also sheds a contract for a rarely used player (Hassel).
Seattle gets a solid, NBA proven, young point guard for the future (at the cost of absorbing Hassel’s contract). A legit PG in the hand is worth lottery balls in the bush.
Which team would blink at this deal . . . I’m thinking that Dallas would.” {D_G}
Because Devin Harris is in the last season of his rookie deal and he recently signed a contract extension, any trade involving him before July 1st, 2008 will include a Poison Pill Provision (i.e., the average annual salary of his ending rookie deal and entire contract extension); thus, that trade proposal doesn’t work under the rules and regulations of the NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement.
The following trade proposal, however, is a revised version of that deal.
FROM DALLAS
PG Jason Terry ($8,898,000)
SF Trenton Hassell ($4,350,000)
PG Devin Harris ($3,995,003 Outgoing) [Poison Pill Provision]
FROM NEW JERSEY
PG Jason Kidd ($19,728,000)
FROM SEATTLE
PF Kurt Thomas ($8,091,188)
TO NEW JERSEY
PG Jason Terry ($8,898,000)
PF Kurt Thomas ($8,091,188)
SF Trenton Hassell ($4,350,000)
TO SEATTLE
PG Devin Harris ($8,999,167 Incoming) [Poison Pill Provision]
http://tinyurl.com/2azw2b
Indeed, creating trade proposals is an art.
Yet, in all likelihood, Rod Thorn would pass on that deal. Since Jason Terry isn’t a true point guard — but rather an undersized shooting guard, which is why he’s in good shape playing alongside a taller playmaker like Devin Harris — he’d probably have trouble meshing with Vince Carter in the Nets’ backcourt.
Trenton Hassell is overpaid for a mediocre defensive stopper off of the bench, too, so absorbing a lengthy contract like his wouldn’t be in Thorn’s best interests. Kurt Thomas’ expiring contract would be appealing to the Nets, though—albeit only as a sweetener.
Anyway, I still am a fan of these two trade proposals.
TRADE PROPOSAL #1
FROM DALLAS
PG Jason Terry ($8,898,000)
SF Jerry Stackhouse ($6,750,000)
SF Devean George ($2,369,111)
SG Maurice Ager ($974,400)
FROM MIAMI
PG Jason Williams ($8,937,500)
SG Ricky Davis ($6,819,000)
FROM NEW JERSEY
PG Jason Kidd ($19,728,000)
FROM PHILADELPHIA
SG Willie Green ($3,094,000)
TO DALLAS
PG Jason Kidd ($19,728,000)
SG Willie Green ($3,094,000)
TO MIAMI
PG Jason Terry ($8,898,000)
SF Jerry Stackhouse ($6,750,000)
TO NEW JERSEY
PG Jason Williams ($8,937,500)
SG Ricky Davis ($6,819,000)
TO PHILADELPHIA
SF Devean George ($2,369,111)
SG Maurice Ager ($974,400)
http://tinyurl.com/2vj4qp
It just makes sense for all of the parties involved in it.
TRADE PROPOSAL #2
FROM MEMPHIS & TO SEATTLE
PF Pau Gasol ($13,735,000)
FROM SEATTLE & TO MEMPHIS
PF Kurt Thomas ($8,091,188)
C Chris Wilcox ($6,500,000)
PF Peter Fehse (Draft Rights)
SG Yotam Halperin (Draft Rights)
PG Paccelis Morlende (Draft Rights)
2008 First-Round Draft Pick (Via The Phoenix Suns)
2010 First-Round Draft Pick (Via The Phoenix Suns)
http://tinyurl.com/yqxgt3
Currently, the Seattle Supersonics desperately need a two-way interior presence more than a point guard — especially since Derrick Rose will hopefully be available to select during the 2008 NBA Draft — which is why acquiring Pau Gasol, who’s hilariously underrated by a few posters around here, should be Sam Presti’s main objective at this moment in time.
January 31st, 2008 at 11:53 am
I get Portland with 21 own back-to-backs and Seattle with 15.
That is from looking at their schedules and counting.
January 31st, 2008 at 11:54 am
Shit, I’m a fucking idiot. I’ve got to apologize to D_G, as his original trade proposal does work under the guidelines — even though it just barely fits the criteria — so that’s completely my mistake.
On that note, I’m admittedly impressed with Devin Harris’ skill set. As it is, Harris shoots an efficient percentage, drives to the basket with a passion, distributes the ball effectively to his teammates, and is a steadfast one-on-one perimeter defense against opposing point guards. All in all, there’s not too much to dislike about Harris’ style of play.
There’s one problem, however. It’s just that, well, I want the Seattle Supersonics to immediately improve its lack of interior talent. In addition, my hope is that this franchise Derrick Rose — no matter some folks’ adoration toward Michael Beasley, whom I’m wary of due to his reported character issues — during the upcoming off-season via the 2008 NBA Draft.
In any event, D_G’s idea deserves some consideration.
January 31st, 2008 at 12:02 pm
3 in 4 days and 4 in 5 days can overlap and not be the same number of discrete back to back cases so that is why I hedged and said it might not be precise.
Straight forn the schedule is obviously better. I didnt feel like doing it. But thanks for the correction Dipper.
January 31st, 2008 at 12:08 pm
The broader point on schedules is that they try to keep the variances within a range and Portland and Seattle may be on opposite ends with regard to own back to backs but there are some differences that can help or hurt and geographic location probably plays a part in that pattern repeating season to season. Based on some information from another site a year ago I got the impression that winter weather played into it some too.
Hopefully opponent schedule differences tend to negate own schedule variances from average but if not that could increase the unfairness or advantage for some.
January 31st, 2008 at 4:47 pm
Phenom said: “My recent CT results have shown my spine to be genetically deformed, but I’m getting my orthotic insoles in a few weeks so I may be taking over a court near you soon.”
This is just freaky… that’s pretty much what I have. Natural fusion from T9-T11. You?
January 31st, 2008 at 6:52 pm
AK….
If we can land D. Harris for KT I’m all for it. I think he is a solid young player.
I also agree that If P. Gasol is available He would be great to get. He is not that old & while expensive is locked up for several years & IMO is a legit “5″ who plays close to all-star level hoops. Getting him & allowing KD to grow with him as in inside presence would be solid.
I have no idea how motivated Memphis is to deal him - but I don’t think he is that “Overpaid” by NBA standards.