2/6/08 Box Score: Sonics 105 Kings 92
Posted on Wednesday, February 6th, 2008 at 10:44 pm by Big Chris
Let’s see if this blog thingy is working again….(THANKS SPEEDCAT - you ROCK!)
A nice win by the Sonics tonight. 5 Sonics players in double figures tonight with Earl Watson leading the team with 23 on 9 of 12 shooting. Watson had at triple-double for the night with 10 boards and 10 assists as well.
Kevin Durant had 17 points on 6 of 12 shooting and was +23 in +/- for the game. Chris Wilcox notched another double-double with 15 points and 10 rebounds.
(13-36)
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(22-25)
| Seattle | |||||||||||||||
| Name | Min | FG | 3Pt | FT | +/- | Off | Reb | Ast | TO | Stl | BS | BA | PF | Pts | |
| K. Durant | G | 38:05 | 6-12 | 1-2 | 4-6 | +23 | 0 | 3 | 5 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 17 |
| E. Watson | G | 32:28 | 9-12 | 3-4 | 2-2 | +12 | 0 | 10 | 10 | 4 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 23 |
| K. Thomas | C | 26:33 | 5-7 | 0-0 | 3-4 | +10 | 0 | 8 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 4 | 13 |
| C. Wilcox | F | 25:04 | 7-11 | 0-0 | 1-2 | -2 | 1 | 10 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 15 |
| J. Green | F | 19:27 | 2-5 | 0-0 | 1-2 | +2 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 5 |
| N. Collison | 30:59 | 4-10 | 0-0 | 5-6 | +4 | 2 | 6 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 13 | |
| W. Szczerbiak | 28:33 | 3-10 | 1-2 | 0-0 | +11 | 1 | 7 | 2 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 7 | |
| L. Ridnour | 15:32 | 0-4 | 0-2 | 1-1 | +1 | 1 | 3 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | |
| J. Petro | 13:24 | 3-4 | 0-0 | 3-3 | +14 | 1 | 4 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 9 | |
| D. West | 9:55 | 1-1 | 0-0 | 0-0 | -10 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | |
| R. Swift | DNP - Coach’s Decision | ||||||||||||||
| D. Wilkins | DNP - Coach’s Decision | ||||||||||||||
| Totals | 40-76 | 5-10 | 20-26 | 7 | 54 | 27 | 18 | 4 | 7 | 2 | 17 | 105 | |||
| Percentages: | .526 | .500 | .769 | Team Rebounds: 6 |
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| Sacramento | |||||||||||||||
| Name | Min | FG | 3Pt | FT | +/- | Off | Reb | Ast | TO | Stl | BS | BA | PF | Pts | |
| K. Martin |
G |
30:12 | 1-10 | 1-3 | 2-2 | -19 | 1 | 6 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 5 |
| M. Bibby | G | 29:29 | 4-15 | 0-5 | 2-2 | -11 | 2 | 5 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 10 |
| M. Moore | C | 34:23 | 4-9 | 0-0 | 2-3 | -15 | 5 | 9 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 10 |
| R. Artest | F | 40:00 | 9-22 | 1-3 | 1-4 | -15 | 1 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 20 |
| J. Salmons | F | 37:36 | 5-14 | 0-2 | 1-1 | -18 | 2 | 4 | 3 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 11 |
| F. Garcia | 23:04 | 4-9 | 3-6 | 0-0 | -2 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 2 | 11 | |
| Q. Douby | 17:10 | 3-9 | 2-2 | 0-0 | +5 | 0 | 3 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 8 | |
| S. Hawes | 17:05 | 4-8 | 0-1 | 2-2 | +7 | 0 | 6 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 10 | |
| J. Williams | 8:53 | 2-2 | 0-0 | 2-4 | +1 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 6 | |
| D. Jones | 2:07 | 0-0 | 0-0 | 1-2 | +2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | |
| K. Thomas | DNP - Coach’s Decision | ||||||||||||||
| B. Udrih | DNP - Coach’s Decision | ||||||||||||||
| Totals | 36-98 | 7-22 | 13-20 | 14 | 42 | 14 | 11 | 10 | 2 | 7 | 16 | 92 | |||
| Percentages: | .367 | .318 | .650 | Team Rebounds: 9 |
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| Game Info |
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Technical Fouls: Sacramento - M. Moore 1 Attendance: 13,136 Officials: Courtney Kirkland, Jack Nies, Matt Boland |
February 6th, 2008 at 10:46 pm
Good win!
February 6th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
the last ten games for Earl:
9.9 points per game
7.1 assists
2.2 turnovers
48% FG shooting
50% 3 shooting
February 6th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
Earl’s trade value goes up, up, up… this can only be good.
February 6th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Good victory on the road tonight at Sactown. Anybody think Presti is goin to make a trade(s) before the trading deadline 2/21?
February 6th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
I’ve gotta give Watson credit for fighting through a very difficult season, and for playing as well as he has (as well as he can).
Also gotta give Petro and the coaching staff credit for his rather obvious improvement. He’s night and day different now, both mentally and physically, from where he was in November.
Wow - there’s 2 things I never thought I’d say out loud.
Yeah, I do think there is a trade or 2 coming.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
I played with the ESPN trade a bunch today and it is nearly impossible to trade Ridnour (or at least impossible to make a trade that is even remotely reasonable for both teams) because of his contract. It has to be Earl, I think, and depending on where he goes, he is going to be very happy (I think maybe Cleveland…) and in the playoffs.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
speedcat does indeed rock
February 6th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
The Shipoopi in the game thread got its W, eventually!
February 6th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Still hard for me to see who would want Luke or Watson given their contracts & talent level.
Maybe Cleveland or Atlanta????
Hard to figure - but then - I still can’t believe Shaq got traded to the Suns! If Kerr is that dumb to trade for Shaq Presti ought ot call him everyday & try to unload some of our guys to him.
I guess almost anything can happen.
Heat made a great deal.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Lester said: “It has to be Earl, I think, and depending on where he goes, he is going to be very happy (I think maybe Cleveland…) and in the playoffs.”
Unless it’s to the Clippers (who are in dire need of a PG below the age of 37), in which case he’ll be neither.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
For example, Watson/Gelly for Brown, Brown, Newble.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
Well I just got back from the game! What a great game to watch. I had seats at center court 10 rows up! It was nice to be in the middle of all those loser Kings fans and see them all getting up and leaving early. If any of you were watching the post game with KC and Snapper I was sitting right behind them showing my white Sonics hat. I got to go up and meet KC and shake his hand and go down and see all the players going into the tunnel. What a fun game to go to. Earl was great tonight!
February 6th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
Cleveland is trying to bark up the Mike Miller trade according to one of their local newspapers. Ira Newble’s expiring contract is the only asset they have and I doubt they would be willing to use it if all it netted them was a point guard with an inconsistent jump shot and a terrible long-term deal. LeBron James is starting to make some noise about trading for a big name player. I don’t think Earl Watson will satisfy the youngster’s wishes.
Someone on this blog claimed in an earlier thread that adding Kyle Korver and letting him cut into Ronnie Brewer’s playing time would not hurt the Jazz’s defense. Since the trade, the Jazz have surrendered 2.5 fewer points per contest and have snuck into the top-ten in terms of defensive efficiency as of this post. Korver and Brewer have played pretty much the same amount of minutes per game since the trade and Korver has been the shooting guard on the court for the Jazz in the fourth quarter. Quite a prognostication in my opinion.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
luke is byc, so, is either packaged in a much larger deal, traded at the last draft, or when the Sonics season is over, or to a team that could absorb his contract.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
Remember, we drafted Sene instead of Ronnie Brewer…arggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh
February 6th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
The Sonics would be in a similar position with or without Brewer; if he was that good, he wouldn’t be losing playing time to Kyle Korver, let alone watching Korver play all of the Jazz’s fourth quarters from the bench.
I’m still peeved at the outrageous Swift-Jefferson debacle and the West/Collison or Howard/Ridnour picks. Now, if the team had made a different pick in any of those three situations, perhaps this team would have made the playoffs consistently and never been up for sale to an out-of-town businessman.
February 6th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
Is there a way to change this website so that the box scores will fit on this page with all the numbers on the same line, instead of the shooting numbers on top of each other? There is certainly plenty of empty margin on both sides of the box score to make each line a lot longer, so all the numerals would fit.
I know nothing about websites, so I don’t know if this could be done, or not. But it would certainly make the box scores easier to read.
February 7th, 2008 at 12:06 am
Thanks for all the praise but I didn’t do jack shaiite for the site today.
February 7th, 2008 at 12:28 am
Well then, whoever got it working, thanks!
Dipper:
We at some point will change the margins to allow for better alignment. My short term solution to you is to subscribe to the blog via RSS feed (something like Google Reader) and view the original posts within that reader. Then come and jump into the commenting fray. The box scores are all just taken from Yahoo Sports, so you can always view them there. I often (not always) link to the original box score in the post.
Big Chris
February 7th, 2008 at 1:37 am
I can’t believe a team like Cleveland isn’t all over the opportunity to acquire the missing pieces to a title by selling everything for Wally, Watson (T-DuB), Thomas, etc. The Cav’s first round pick in a couple years would be nice, along with an expiring contract (Newble), or a mentor like Snow. Shannon Brown could be a nice scoring guard whose opportunities are limited by Lebron’s dominance. And can Portland or Memphis part with a guard yet or do they need to monopolize this market?
February 7th, 2008 at 1:43 am
Shaq could be what Phoenix needs as Marion was a soon to be leaving free-agent and Boris Diaw is a fine replacement. Besides, Marion’s attitude may have been conducive to disrupting the team’s mojo. Kerr made a risk which was perhaps miscalculated or he may have computed his team’s needs correctly.
The Sonic’s momentum was fantastic and it sounded like they were playing a zone defense with PJ installing atleast one adjustment. Anybody see what zones they employed?
February 7th, 2008 at 1:51 am
Mike Miller for Eric Snow and Ira Newble would work. I suppose Snow could serve as a third-string mentor for the two point guards that will remain on Memphis’s roster after this season (one will be gone). His contract also expires one year earlier than Miller’s contract. However, this trade would only clear about three million dollars from their salary cap for next year.
A better trade for Memphis would be to trade Miller to Orlando for Redick, Garrity, Gortat, and Augustine. Augustine and Garrity have expiring contracts. I believe Memphis would then have the option to decline Redick’s contract for next year. Gortat makes so little money that his contract is pretty irrelevant.
February 7th, 2008 at 2:46 am
I give speed all the credit in the world for the site being back up. He’s just got a good flow going on. First the banner, now this. Whatever he sets his mind to just happen. In this case I ask for his help and BOOM the problem is solved, simply because he focused on it for a moment.
Missed the game. Bummer.
February 7th, 2008 at 7:23 am
“Still hard for me to see who would want Luke or Watson given their contracts & talent level.”
Or Wilkins, or Sene. Even Wally — who clearly has something to offer on the floor has a contract that is out of proportion with what he can contribute.
Any team that has a need that one of these guys can address, can fill this need with someone cheeper, at least as good, and equally available.
Seems to me that the Sonics are stuck with their overpriced pieces. Very hard to imagine that any professional GM would swap talent or expiring contracts for anything we have to offer except the guys in the front court (Thomas and perhaps Wilcox and Collison).
Only hope I see in moving Ridenour et al. is if we could somehow facilitate a big name trade between two other teams. In other words, if the inclusion of our players would somehow make the money work, or would fit a role that is lost by one team making the trade.
For example Kidd to Dallas or
Jermaine O’Neall to anywhere might provide us an opportunity for us to jettison a part that doesn’t work.
A two team trade, however. Unless we are talking about Thomas or Wilcox, I just don’t see it happenning.
February 7th, 2008 at 7:32 am
A while back, I derisively noted some horrendous +/- stat associated with Petro (can’t remember the game).
Gotta give equal time and kudos to a +14 tonight in 13 minutes of play in which Petro was a factor.
Courtsense said:
“Also gotta give Petro and the coaching staff credit for his rather obvious improvement. He’s night and day different now, both mentally and physically, from where he was in November.”
Last night I saw Petro, from near the top of the key, explosively take the ball to the hole for a dunk. Am I remembering this right?
February 7th, 2008 at 8:42 am
anyone care to fill me in on what the shipoopi thing is about? I first heard this song in a family guy episode and then did some research as to its origin. But i still don’t see the connection to basketball or sports…
(I’m european so i have different cultural baggage)
Anyone ?
February 7th, 2008 at 9:28 am
I think the whole point is that there is no connection. It is just random…
Maybe I’m wrong.
The whole concept is referring to “crap” so there is some connection to the SuperSonics level of play if not basketball in general.
February 7th, 2008 at 9:34 am
Perhaps Watson for Sam Cassell?
Then Supes waive Sam I am?
February 7th, 2008 at 9:43 am
Orlando is still having issues at the PG position. Their coach recently stuck Nelson on the bench, only to pull him back off the bench last night and set Arroyo for most of the night. Dooling really doesn’t play as a PG, more a wanna be scoring combo guard.
If nothing else, Watson could prove to be a valuable backup to Nelson if he continues to jump in and out of the doghouse. Watson to Orlando for expirings, has and will continue to be a decent option given their current mess at the position.
February 7th, 2008 at 10:28 am
Cassell want to go only to Boston to play with his bro KG…He will get there i think…
February 7th, 2008 at 10:30 am
“I’m still peeved at the outrageous Swift-Jefferson debacle and the West/Collison or Howard/Ridnour picks. Now, if the team had made a different pick in any of those three situations, perhaps this team would have made the playoffs consistently and never been up for sale to an out-of-town businessman. ”
But then we wouldn’t have Kevin Durant.
February 7th, 2008 at 10:30 am
This is just eerie… When I took home economics in 8th grade, we made posters of kitchen hazards, and I drew a picture of a sink full of dishes with a knife lurking under the suds. And now Brad Miller, Mr. 20/20, misses the game because of a laceration….suffered while doing the dishes?!
I don’t know, it’s positively twilight zone. I can hear the theme music in my head now….
Looks like the Sonics are going to need a little twilight zone every game if they want to keep up the winning. Their getting a lot of help from the gods. Has someone in the locker room taken up voodoo? Parker, James, Curry, Miller, who’s next?
February 7th, 2008 at 10:37 am
The phrase “Can’t hit the broadside of a barn” does not apply to Luke Ridnour right now. Currently “The barn is moving” making it even more difficult to hit. 4 assists no turnovers. The ball moved really well when he was running the show. His pass would lead to the assist on a few occasions by putting in the right place during the half court set. If he could hit one open jumper the game would have been over even sooner. Please use your legendary Gym Rat work ethic to correct your jumper LUKE!!!
February 7th, 2008 at 10:43 am
Alex, as you’ve noted Korver made sense for Utah. And some at Brewer’s expense.
Sloan is playing a deep bench, maybe going for rest til playoffs and to go with who is playing well at the time.
Brewer has confounded expectations by being a better shooter (and maybe being focused on that primarily to try to get paid big- fairly common) and a very poor defender- team 4.5 pts worse with him on court and his 1 on 1 defense is terrible at both wing positions.
Utah probably does not want Brewer to get big stats and ask for big money. Splitting the job gives them options and helps them fight salary expectations.
Korver is holding SGs to 42% eFG and a 12 PER.
Doing that and shooting well makes him a 2 way success story.
Brewer has value and was a decent draft pickup but 1 way wings aren’t such a big prize.
Other draftees passed up were far bigger losses and harder to accept.
February 7th, 2008 at 10:45 am
“I’m still peeved at the outrageous Swift-Jefferson debacle and the West/Collison or Howard/Ridnour picks.”
Swift/Jefferson I understand, the other two look like blantant hindsight commentaries. I wanted Jefferson as well, but I understand why they did what they did. Going into the draft did you really want West (who was considered a reach at 18 when the Hornets took him) and Howard (who didn’t get drafted until what 28?) Or are you just looking at the great picks in hindsight and saying ‘if we’d just taken those guys’.
By the time the draft had come I was resigned to the fact that we were going to take either Collison or Sweetney had he fell to 12. At 14 I really wanted Barbosa, right now I still really want Barbosa for that matter.
“Cassell want to go only to Boston to play with his bro KG.”
Sucks not having a no trade clause doesn’t it?
February 7th, 2008 at 10:47 am
Anybody see a correlation between Petro’s play and Gele going to Boise? It used to irk me to watch those 2 clowns play grab-ass during pre-game warmups. Neither of them seemed to give a damn….just jacking up rediculous shots, playing one on one. Anyhow, just a thought.
February 7th, 2008 at 10:56 am
BK is right that bad choices can beget some good luck and good choices. Whether Durant was “worth” the misses time will tell.
Collison isnt West but he was a good enough pickup. Ridnour was not a strong choice given the best player available options. They should have given the starting job to the vet A Daniels and rode with that and not gamble on a small rookie. But there were a lot of misses in 03 draft for others as well as Sonics. Maybe Green gets close to J Howard? That isn’t my expectation but has got to be the hope now. Swift isnt Jefferson but we don’t know what Swift will be yet. He might recover half or 2/3rds the distance in value. Maybe.
February 7th, 2008 at 10:58 am
Isn’t Cassell in the process of securing a buyout?
Sonics lead the NBA in terms of bench minutes per game, leading the closest team by two minutes per game. Unsurprisingly, Seattle’s starting unit has the second worst +/- for all starting units in the league. The bench has the seventh worst +/- for all benches in the league.
http://www.82games.com/benchstats.htm
February 7th, 2008 at 11:00 am
Utah probably does not want Brewer to get big stats and ask for big money. Splitting the job gives them options and helps them fight salary expectations.
Come on now. The Jazz control Brewer’s contract for at least two more season’s before he is even a restricted FA. The Jazz are not limiting his playing time right now in order to devalue his contract demands three yeards down the road……that’s just crazy talk.
Korver is more experienced and provides the Jazz another weapon on offense that deters opposing teams from doubling Boozer in the post. Brewer is not a good 3 pt shooter. In addition, Korver is also a very good Free Throw shooter.
Have the Jazz soured on Brewer? I doubt it. They just added another valuable piece to their puzzle, which just happens to result in less playing time for the young Brewer.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Shaq could be what Phoenix needs as Marion was a soon to be leaving free-agent and Boris Diaw is a fine replacement. Besides, Marion’s attitude may have been conducive to disrupting the team’s mojo. Kerr made a risk which was perhaps miscalculated or he may have computed his team’s needs correctly.
- The more i think about this the more I am absolutely convinced they are positioning themselves to sign LeBron/Wade/Mello in 2010/11…its a calculated risk, but Im glad a GM had the balls to do it.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:03 am
Best game of the year for the Sonics…better shooting in all three categories, more rebounds, more assists…just a total team victory.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:04 am
Jefferson was the prefence of many. I didnt weigh in heavily on that one but I would have gone with him.
I was for West before draft but just off draft writeup not deep knowledge.
I didnt know Ridnour at all but I wouldnt have gone that way then- or any year unless the case was much stronger. I don’t want to trust so much to young PGs.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:06 am
Saying West/Collison draft etc. is all spilled milk. After picks 1-5 the rest is a crap shoot. Do you think the teams that passed on Kemp or Rashard are doing the same hindsight kicking themselves in the butt? The only ones that should be worried are the 1-5 busts. Darko, Kwame, and most likely Bargnaini will be the ones to hurt you. Kwame was the 1 pick overall. It is an inexact science at best and I hope we have the right guy in the “Lab”: Professor Presti. Collison is not a bust. He is a solid NBA player. West has more tools but who’s to say it was something that could have been predicted. How about Ben Wallace? Was he even drafted? He is getting $15mil this year. I think he is overpaid by a long shot but he has had a impact career. Raja Bell played in the IBL for heavens sake and is an important cog on a team with the best record. When you draft 6-25 you have to take what fits and hopefully get a solid NBA player. If that player turns into a superstar you are a genius. Ask Milwaukee how they liked Robert “Tractor” Taylor. Whoops. At least we didn’t do that!!!!
February 7th, 2008 at 11:08 am
Sonics lead the NBA in terms of bench minutes per game, leading the closest team by two minutes per game. Unsurprisingly, Seattle’s starting unit has the second worst +/- for all starting units in the league. The bench has the seventh worst +/- for all benches in the league.
The thing with that +/- stat is, if your team is losing alot of games, regardless of who’s on the court the majority of your roster is going to have negative +/- stats, just by nature of your team not scoring as many points as the other team resulting in the numerous losses. As with all stats, there is usefullness in +/- however one must also take into account context.
As opposed to the Sonics, a lesser player on a team that happens to be winning alot of games, may have a better +/- factor than a similar Sonic player, however it may be artificially inflated based on the talent surrounding that player on the better team.
Just things to consider when looking at +/-.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:09 am
Frozenropers there might not be a strong case for limiting stats to reduce future contract demands on Brewer. I don’t know their GM that well to make a strong accusation and Sloan probably has near complete freedom to do as his pleases. So maybe my general suspicion doesnt fit well in this case. But I do indeed believe some GMs do it to some players.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:10 am
I agree that Colllison is not a bust but I don’t believe he was worth a lottery pick. You can find a Nick Collison type player every two years in the second round. Teams continually decide to invest lottery picks on these guys. I have written down twenty players from his draft class that have had more impact in the NBA than Nick Collison.
I echo Crow’s thoughts on West pre-draft. West may have been as hyped as Nick if him and Collison switched schools. Besides, Collison was also undersized if that was the initial concern with West.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:11 am
Shaq + Run and Gun Suns= Kareem + Showtime
This will work!!!! Shaq gets to play the roll of Kareem during the run and gun Lakers. After the defensive rebound and outlet wait on the defensive end of the floor. If they score in transition smile, wave and save your knees. If the transition doesn’t work lumber to the post, get double teamed and kick out. Shaq has never had a PG like Nash to spoon feed him the ball either!! Playing with the Suns will extend Shaq’s career. The West just got really interesting.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:14 am
But I do indeed believe some GMs do it to some players.
That may very well be the case in some circumstances…..player in contract year, coming off injury mid-season in contract year, team wanting to re-sign at less than max value…..maybe……but guy on rookie contract three years from even being able to hit the partial open market…….I highly doubt it in this case. Seems way too “conspiracy theory” to me here. Brewer and Korver appear to have rather complimentary skill sets…….Brewer the slasher, Korver the spot up 3 shooter……
…….the defensive stats are definately interesting as one would expect them to be the opposite, however we also have to consider the small sample size there. It makes logical sense that they’d be splitting time. They play the same position, Utah went and traded for Korver for his specified skill (3 pt shooting).
February 7th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Look, Alex Chan and Frozenropers, this is how you can make the Orlando Magic into a superpower.
FROM MEMPHIS
SG Mike Miller ($8,376,194)
FROM ORLANDO
PG Carlos Arroyo ($4,000,000)
PF Pat Garrity ($3,818,750)
SG Keyon Dooling ($3,596,000)
SG J.J. Redick ($2,000,160)
SG Maurice Evans ($1,740,000)
FROM PHILADELPHIA
PG Andre Miller ($9,600,000)
TO MEMPHIS
PF Pat Garrity ($3,818,750)
SG J.J. Redick ($2,000,160)
SG Maurice Evans ($1,740,000)
TO ORLANDO
PG Andre Miller ($9,600,000)
SG Mike Miller ($8,376,194)
TO PHILADELPHIA
PG Carlos Arroyo ($4,000,000)
SG Keyon Dooling ($3,596,000)
http://tinyurl.com/2y3xbq
Prior to the trade, the Philadelphia 76ers must clear its roster by releasing a few stiffs (i.e., Shavlik Randolph, Louis Amundson, & Herbert Hill) — while the Memphis Grizzlies would have to finally waive Aaron McKie — in addition, the Orlando Magic would need to replenish its depth immediately after the deal by signing a swingman from the D-League (e.g., DerMarr Johnson) to a ten-day contract.
ORLANDO MAGIC
C: Dwight Howard (40 m.p.g.)
C: Adonal Foyle (8 m.p.g.)
C: Marcin Gortat (0 m.p.g.)
PF: Rashard Lewis (40 m.p.g.)
PF: Brian Cook (8 m.p.g.)
PF: James Augustine (0 m.p.g.)
PF: Tony Battie (Inactive)
SF: Hidayet Turkoglu (40 m.p.g.)
SF: DerMarr Johnson (8 m.p.g.)
SG: Mike Miller (32 m.p.g.)
SG: Keith Bogans (8 m.p.g.)
PG: Andre Miller (32 m.p.g.)
PG: Jameer Nelson (16 m.p.g.)
That slow-paced spread offense would cause havoc for the competition come playoff time, as the Magic would control the paint and shoot its opposition out of contests.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:19 am
Good points on +/- frozenropers. One thing you can do is look at a player’s differential from that team’s average +/-. 4 Sonics are well above team average. Maybe they are better than their raw +/- and in comparison with players on other teams. Maybe. But raw +/- is fraught with hazards. adjusted +/- still has hazards and is less strong than it is given credit. I give it less credit now than i used to. It i shard to compare minutes played on one team to minutes played on another and all the stat manipulation to try to equalize is just an imperfect attempt and not gospel.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:21 am
“I agree that Colllison is not a bust but I don’t believe he was worth a lottery pick. You can find a Nick Collison type player every two years in the second round. Teams continually decide to invest lottery picks on these guys. I have written down twenty players from his draft class that have had more impact in the NBA than Nick Collison.”
I honestly don’t think that you’ll find a Nick Collison every two years in the 2nd round.
He’s a solid big that plays some defense and rebounds with the best of them. Afterall, he’s the best rebounder(or at least one of the 5 best) of this league per 48 minutes.
He also was an All-American, with 4 years of Big 12 experience, while breaking a couple of conference records during that time.
“I echo Crow’s thoughts on West pre-draft. West may have been as hyped as Nick if him and Collison switched schools. Besides, Collison was also undersized if that was the initial concern with West. ”
David West is a really good pf(and looks better then Nick right now), but let’s not forget who he plays with and who the guys are that set up Nick. West is better offensively, but not as good defensively. And playing with Chris Paul, instead of Watson/Ridnour also helps your offensive production.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:21 am
It i shard to compare minutes played on one team to minutes played on another and all the stat manipulation to try to equalize is just an imperfect attempt and not gospel.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:21 am
“I didnt know Ridnour at all but I wouldnt have gone that way then- or any year unless the case was much stronger. I don’t want to trust so much to young PGs.”
What’s interesting about the Ridnour pick is that its well known that Nate went crazy when they made that pick, he absolutely hated it. Imagine if we’d gone with the guy he wanted…..
February 7th, 2008 at 11:23 am
Kyle Korver is Jeff Hornacek. Have you seen them in the same room? I think Jeff had re constructive surgery and got on an inversion table therapy regiment to grow. Went to South America found the fountain of youth. Accidentally got drafted by the Sixers instead of the Jazz. Finally he has returned to Salt Lake where he soaks twice a day to maintain his youth. Yes, Kyle Korver is Jeff Hornacek.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:23 am
“The more i think about this the more I am absolutely convinced they are positioning themselves to sign LeBron/Wade/Mello in 2010/11…its a calculated risk, but Im glad a GM had the balls to do it.”
Carmelo will not be a free agent in the offseason prior to the 2010-2011 regular season. His player option is for the 2011-2012 regular season.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:26 am
That’s odd…….text didn’t post…..anyways….repeat:
+/- definately has value, just needs to be viewed in context and compared to what is seen visually in order to determine if it is making sense logically. If not, then question.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Andre Miller would be a pretty good player to add for the Miami Heat to get back into contention in the Eastern Conference next season. They could acquire Miller just by offering Jason Williams. Miller throws one of the best alley-oops in the game; he would be a very good point guard for Shawn Marion. A Heat starting unit with Wade when healthy, Marion, Haslem, and Miller (perhaps they can sign Diop in the offseason) as its three best players with Cook, Banks, Blount, Zo (if he decides not to retire) and potentially Michael Beasley coming off the bench would be quite formidable in that conference.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Carmelo will not be a free agent in the offseason prior to the 2010-2011 regular season. His player option is for the 2011-2012 regular season.
- Odd…thought he signed the same contract as all his other guys. In all honesty, if you look at that 10/11 class it would include LeBron/Wade/Bosh/CP3/D. Williams basically 5 of the greatest young players in the game. Each and every one of them might sign with their current team. But if you are going to have cap space you might as well have it that year…
February 7th, 2008 at 11:40 am
For all the Durant defensive skills haters this was one game where you actually got to see a big name SG who is a worse defensive player than he is…
February 7th, 2008 at 11:45 am
“- Odd…thought he signed the same contract as all his other guys. In all honesty, if you look at that 10/11 class it would include LeBron/Wade/Bosh/CP3/D. Williams basically 5 of the greatest young players in the game. Each and every one of them might sign with their current team. But if you are going to have cap space you might as well have it that year…”
Also the year the CBA is up. So there’s a calculated risk in trying to maximize room for that season.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:47 am
As has been noted by Alex Chan, the Kyle Korver acquisition was a crafty move by the Utah Jazz. Korver provides Jerry Sloan with a spot-up three-point shooter to integrate within his rendition of John Wooden’s old UCLA 1-4 high-post offense — which relies heavily on wing players (e.g., Andrei Kirilenko & Ronnie Brewer) slashing to the basket through backdoor cuts and pick-’n'-roll plays between the point guard (e.g., Deron Williams) and power forward (e.g., Carlos Boozer) — so that adds another dimension. If Kevin O’Connor can pull off another smooth move by dealing Jarron Collins, Jason Hart, and Morris Almond to the Indiana Pacers for Jeff Foster and Andre Owens, then look for the Jazz to make a deep run in the playoffs.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Suns should indeed reload with big name free agents after this group finishes. They are an attractive city with a strong team record. They can afford to have that confidence.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:57 am
I still dont agree this trade will lead them to the promised land. But a team with Steve Nash (playing the old John Stockton role) DWade/LeBron and Stoudamire would be pretty impressive in three years.
February 7th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
What’s interesting about the Ridnour pick is that its well known that Nate went crazy when they made that pick, he absolutely hated it. Imagine if we’d gone with the guy he wanted…..” {Scott}
Reece Gaines FTW! Wait? Nevermind …
February 7th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Myk you are right that Kevin Martin is a poor defender. (He is pretty close to same level as Durant for season.) Right now Artest is a balancer… and not enough of one really. Martin is somewhere between alright and fine as a #1 scorer (I’d rather have a big or PG as #1) but they’ll need more defense (from others) to make playoffs or wins anything there. As will Seattle with Durant.
February 7th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
If you meant Gaines Scott he would have bust and Nate and I and some others would have been wrong.
But again the alternative was rely on the vet and keep any draft pick PG bet as 12 minutes or less until they prove worth it. Nate might well have been fine spending dough to keep A Daniels. Not doing so may have contributed to him leaving too.
February 7th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
The number of truly terrible huge contracts is dwindling but it may well pay to have your big contracts made after new cba instead of under this one.
February 7th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
“Andre Miller would be a pretty good player to add for the Miami Heat to get back into contention in the Eastern Conference next season. They could acquire Miller just by offering Jason Williams. Miller throws one of the best alley-oops in the game; he would be a very good point guard for Shawn Marion. A Heat starting unit with Wade when healthy, Marion, Haslem, and Miller (perhaps they can sign Diop in the offseason) as its three best players with Cook, Banks, Blount, Zo (if he decides not to retire) and potentially Michael Beasley coming off the bench would be quite formidable in that conference.” {Alex Chan}
Within your scenario, Michael Beasley would send Udonis Haslem to the bench without a second thought from Pat Riley.
Anyhow, that notwithstanding, the Miami Heat will probably land Eric Gordon in the 2008 NBA Draft. Alongside Dwyane Wade in the Heat’s backourt, Gordon’s drawbacks as an undersized shooting guard — since he’s a gunner, à la Ben Gordon, who’s better suited to defend opposing point guards — would be masked for the most part. Daequan Cook and Marcus Banks would be decent reserves at the guard positions, too.
Those are mainly just assumptions, though.
February 7th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Reece Gaines FTW! Wait? Nevermind …
- Ridnour isn’t good…but I dont believe you could’ve found a better PG in the draft at that spot…and yes I am including Barbosa in this argument. Barbosa is a tiny two guard running around in PGs clothing.
February 7th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Within your scenario, Michael Beasley would send Udonis Haslem to the bench without a second thought from Pat Riley.
Agreed, however I suspect the Miami Heat are going to improve after this trade and will end up inching their way into the late lottery and not be in a position to get Beasley without a miraculous lottery win.
February 7th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
I remember on talk radio and “around the water cooler” that we should have taken Reece Gaines.
Well more support for my “Crap Shoot” postulation about picks 6-20.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reece_Gaines
February 7th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Barbosa could’ve been selected, but management felt Brent Barry and AD would become expendable with a truer point guard around….Rid helped lead the Sonics to a great record in that one season, but one can attribute some of the responsibility to AD’s finishing the games off with his skillz….all of these “what ifs” lead to the new rebuilding vision which can’t be calculated for a few years when the cap space becomes cleared and the free-agents and draft picks are gained.
February 7th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
“Agreed, however I suspect the Miami Heat are going to improve after this trade and will end up inching their way into the late lottery and not be in a position to get Beasley without a miraculous lottery win.” {Frozenropers}
Yeah, that’s why I went with Eric Gordon in my scenario. Andre Miller, by the way, probably wouldn’t be the most apt guy to pair with Dwyane Wade in the Miami Heat’s backcourt—especially since Wade can run the offense in halfcourt sets. All things considered, the selection of an undersized shooting guard who can score in bunches — such as Gordon or Jerryd Bayless — during the 2008 NBA Draft would be an enormous improvement over Jason Williams.
February 7th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
“Brewer has confounded expectations by being a better shooter (and maybe being focused on that primarily to try to get paid big- fairly common) and a very poor defender- team 4.5 pts worse with him on court and his 1 on 1 defense is terrible at both wing positions.”
“Korver is holding SGs to 42% eFG and a 12 PER.
Doing that and shooting well makes him a 2 way success story.”
I don’t discount stats altogether, but I think you need to consider who these players are guarding in the mix. With Brewer starting vs a team like the Lakers…..I assume he covers Kobe. Korver off the bench in all likeliehood wouldn’t be matched up vs anyone like that. And if Kobe was on the floor I would think that even then he wouldn’t be guarding him. Might be a factor in the numbers.
Maybe Brewer is a bad defender. But from what I’ve seen of him stats don’t tell the whole story.
February 7th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Sam Presti’s blackberry must be buzz, buzz, buzzing. “We need Kurt Thomas to guard (insert recently acquired big man here) and Tim Ducan down the stretch. I have the Kitchen Sink and some more draft picks. I’m really worried that you won’t squander the draft picks on more unknown Senegalese centers though. Please call me back!!!”
February 7th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Ironic that today is the day current season adjusted +/- values come out courtesy of basketballvalue.com. There is a summary article describing it at 82games.com but you can get the values for all players if you dig arouund at bv or download the right data file.
Adjusted +/-
(use with caution as it implies presence of court when good or bad things are happening and not necessarily direct participation. Another version of +/- better accounts for those direct effects and makes this adjusted +/- merely the tail of the dog and I tend to support using that now. I may replicate it for Sonics later.)
Thomas, Kurt 11.5
Petro, Johan 4.6
Collison, Nick 6.0
Ridnour, Luke -2.4
Wilkins, Damien -5.9
Wilcox, Chris 6.7
West, Delonte -12.3
Szczerbiak, Wally 5.6
Watson, Earl -8.4
Swift, Robert Not enough data
Gelabale, Mickael Not enough data
Sene, Mouhamed Not enough data
Durant, Kevin -9.3
Green, Jeff -9.8
February 7th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
“- Ridnour isn’t good…but I dont believe you could’ve found a better PG in the draft at that spot…and yes I am including Barbosa in this argument. Barbosa is a tiny two guard running around in PGs clothing.” {Myk}
Although Leandro Barbosa is essentially an undersized gunner, the tandem of him and Antonio Daniels as reserve guards would’ve formed a dynamic duo. Undoubtedly, their respective skill sets would’ve perfectly complimented each other.
However, Wally Walker and Rick Sund wanted the local boy, Luke Ridnour, who was a pure point guard with the potential to bait casual fans into buying more tickets; conversely, Nate McMillian was enamored with a taller floor general, Reece Gaines, who probably reminded him of himself coming out of college. Hell, David Pendergraft — who seemingly had an affinity for foreigners — was probably the one who made a pitch for Barbosa.
Alas, Walker and Sund made the final call—and that’s that.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
“Sam Presti’s blackberry must be buzz, buzz, buzzing. “We need Kurt Thomas to guard (insert recently acquired big man here) and Tim Ducan down the stretch. I have the Kitchen Sink and some more draft picks. I’m really worried that you won’t squander the draft picks on more unknown Senegalese centers though. Please call me back!!!” ”
I’d love to see the GM that writes the insults down in his txt’s, that would be awesome.
It’s much more a league where they’d send that txt then tell someone they know will leak thier comment to the media the secondary comment.
Then they’d read hoopshype the next morning to see if thier comment made the ‘rumors’ section.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Very good point Menace defensive stats are highly dependent on starter / reserve coverage and toughest cover/easiest and quality of teammates in game with you so the data should be used with a lot of caution and supplemented by careful observation.. Moderation in drawing conlusions is warranted- you can probably find best and worst on D but grading between average, good and a little weak will be hard to do and “prove it” or even argue it with that high degree of crediblity.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Adjusted +/- is another useful tool but should not be though of as a sole / complete / final measure.
(I see Jamal Crawford has 6th best adjusted +/- in the league- one of just a few surprises and worthy of some suspicion- in an otherwise expected top 20.)
http://www.82games.com/barzilai2.htm
February 7th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Adjusted +/- data argues as does the starter/bench data link that Alex cited that the problem is mainly with the starting unit not being a starter quality unit.
Watson Durant Wilkins/Green are the main players on the court when the bad change in scoreboard result is occuring. As Menance’s comment suggests the bench may not be starter quality either. That is what happens when you trade your starting wings and substitutes rookies and a backup and when your PG is not an above average court general or the offensive system sucks or both.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Here is the basketballvalue.com page with the Sonics adjusted +/- data if you want to see it now or anytime in future as it will update daily.
http://basketballvalue.com/teamplayers.php?year=2007-2008&team=SEA
February 7th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Short of doing the “overall +/-” calcualtion a player with a high PER and a high adjusted +/- is probably adding the cause / is a good player. A player good on just one is probably helping some individually or a teammate but you’d have to check more closely to know how much. A player bad on both is probably bad or just in an insignificant role / poor spot in the rotation.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Did someone here really say that Luke is a better point guard than Barbosa? Please tell me nobody really believes that.
Barbosa is head and shoulders better than Luke. Luke is not an NBA player, period. Barbosa is a very good point guard. If Seattle had Barbosa instead of Luke, the Sonics would be a much, much better team.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
make that “aiding” (not adding)
February 7th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
What makes Barbosa a good point guard, Dipper? And don’t say shooting. We’re talking POINT guard, not just guard.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
“What makes Barbosa a good point guard, Dipper? And don’t say shooting. We’re talking POINT guard, not just guard.”
On the other hand what makes Luke a good point guard?
I’ll take the undersized shooting guard that can slash or drain the trey at an efficient clip over any defensively inept, poor shooting “facilitator”. Obviously that goes for Watson as well.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
“What makes Barbosa a good point guard, Dipper? And don’t say shooting. We’re talking POINT guard, not just guard.”
I think he’s more of a player than Luke period. He’s a better shooter and a better defender. Luke’s solid at running the half-court but he doesn’t really command any attention on the court.
I’d personally much rather have Barbosa, if for no other reason than I think if you looked to deal the two you’d get much more in return for Leandro.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Luke was the point on a 52 win team. He delivered the ball to Ray and Rashard where they needed it. He kept Tony Parker in front of him for the most part in the six game series. The team played defense that year. That stopped playing defense and Ridnour was hung out to dry by no help side defense and his inability to get through a screen killed us. Bob Weiss was the substitute teacher that wasn’t following the rules. From their it tumbled into oblivion and here we are with KD and an injury riddled season for Luke. When Luke delivers the ball to KD he hits him in the hands ready to shoot. Earl, love the triple double, but he still delivers the ball late to shooters effecting their FG%. Ray and Rashard #’s where not in spite of Luke but helped by Luke. When Earl gets traded to the Cavs to throw passes behind Lebron and to hit Damon Jones and Gibson in the knees instead of their hands, Luke will get his minutes and shooting % will go up. Earl is a defender and a competitor but lacks in the fundamental skill of passing and ball movement. Our offensive efficiency in 04 was not smoke and mirrors. It was ball movement, low turnovers and well delivered passes. Now that I am done with my “I Love Luke Ridnour” fest please feel free to rip me a new one. AK, Dipper and all please be gentle.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
After watching the Suns/ Hornets game last night there’s a few observations to make.
Barbosa is going to put up even bigger numbers I feel. He’s the sixth man behind Nash and Bell now that Banks is right out of the equation. I can’t recall who said it, but they said that when Shaq is in they will run a halfcourt set. When he’s out Barbosa comes in and the run and gun style explodes. Barbosa had to share time when they had Marion because both Hill and Diaw played some shooting guard. Grant Hill now mans the starting small forward position and Boris Diaw becomes the sixth man forward behind Hill and Stoudemire( can you believe that I have always spelled it Stoudamire and only realized last night after seeing the back of his jersey that it’s spelled Stoudemire?) I look for Barbosa to take a bigger role at both guard positions.
There really is something to be said for playing a more deliberate halfcourt offense. The Hornets had numerous chances to run transition with Phoenix yet maintained great discipline and slowed it down( yet they still scored 132 points in a double overtime game). The Hornets are a model of efficiency( hats off to Byron Scott) and having a true floor general like Chris Paul makes it all work. In my opinion Paul is the #1 pointguard in basketball at this moment. There’s nothing more I would love to see than Presti designing a team that modelled New Orleans type of play.
If Gonzaga combo guard Jeremy Pargo is anything like his older brother Jannero the Sonics should grab him in the second round. At $1mil salary Jannero Pargo is a skilled, smart, veteran backup that is a key contributer as a combo guard. I’m surprised no other teams made a run to sign him as a free agent. It doesn’t get much better to have your main backup being such a cheap priced skilled player.
Yes, Nick Collison would thrive as a Hornet. New Orleans are a thinking man’s team and Collision could excute the game plan knowing he has someone like Tyson Chandler beside him. But David West is a step up from Nick. He’s got that bit more explosiveness to his game, plus he can hit a longer jumper when he sees the chance to take it. West is also just as aggressive as Collison on defense and challenges his check rather than play a sagging defense.
In hindsight Leandra Barbosa would have made a big impact on the Sonics. The guy is amazing and you can see that he’s still on the upswing with his game and I expect bigger things from him. Plus he’s still fairly young. Him or Ridnour in the draft? You’ve got to be kidding me. But at the time Barbosa was a bit unknown where Ridnour had been seen more in college.
Finally, I have to say that even though I’m a Steve Nash fan since he’s a hometown hero, I see him making way more mistakes and turnovers than he has in the past. I truly have to wonder if at age 34 his physical ability is showing the first signs of wearing on him.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
I should have elaborated, I don’t think of Barbosa as a point guard, but he could definitely spread the floor better than either Luke or Watson, provide superior perimeter defense comparitively, and I don’t think he’d be a huge downgrade as a offensive facilitator.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Boy, I type real good. Too many mistakes and poor English to even try to put corrections into another post. Sorry, but I guess it will be easier to rip me though.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
“Luke was the point on a 52 win team. He delivered the ball to Ray and Rashard where they needed it. He kept Tony Parker in front of him for the most part in the six game series. The team played defense that year.”
With all do respect Dork, in 04-05 Luke split time at point guard w/ Antonio Daniels, who was a better player in every facet of the game. Nobody, espescially not Luke Ridnour, has kept Tony Parker in front of them consistently. The guy scores more points in the paint than Tim Duncan. And finally, the Sonics were not a good defensive team that year, it just seems like it in light of the defense we’ve seen over the last few years.
February 7th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
“Our offensive efficiency in 04 was not smoke and mirrors. It was ball movement, low turnovers and well delivered passes.” {Dork1013}
It was Antonio Daniels.
February 7th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
So who’s better……Watson or Ridnour?
February 7th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
“I should have elaborated, I don’t think of Barbosa as a point guard, but he could definitely spread the floor better than either Luke or Watson, provide superior perimeter defense comparitively, and I don’t think he’d be a huge downgrade as a offensive facilitator.” {Balloholic}
Leandro Barbosa is a crappy defender, à la Luke Ridnour, so let’s not ignore that shortcoming of his. Barbosa would also be a huge downgrade at point guard, as both Ridnour and Earl Watson are actual playmakers who effectively distribute the rock to their teammates. The advantage that Barbosa has over Ridnour and Watson, however, is his efficient shooting and slashing abilities. All things considered, I’d want either Watson or Barbosa depending on who else was on the team — with Barbosa doing well alongside someone like Antonio Daniels and Watson doing well alongside someone like Ray Allen — while Ridnour wouldn’t even enter the conversation.
February 7th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
I don’t disagree with any of the above, I just wonder what Dipper thinks a point guard is for, since good passing and such seems to be neither here nor there to him.
February 7th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Barbosa is head and shoulders better than Luke. Luke is not an NBA player, period. Barbosa is a very good point guard. If Seattle had Barbosa instead of Luke, the Sonics would be a much, much better team.
- Barbosa would be a better player as a backup player to Durant. He is a talented player…he just simply is not a PG. Luke might not be a “good” PG…but he is a PG. If we had drafted Barbosa and attempted to play him in the same situations as we have Luke he would not have been nearly as successful as he has been in Phoenix…simple as that.
February 7th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
“So who’s better……Watson or Ridnour?”
How about Korver vs. Brewer?
February 7th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
So who’s better……Watson or Ridnour?
- I’d even add AD into that mix…he hasn’t been very good since he left here either. One of the few very good moves that Sund made at the end of his time. His two best years far and away were here in Seattle.
February 7th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
One thing about this Phoenix trade is that it will be one of the first chances we can see if Phoenix truly inflates player’s values due to their offensive system.
Joe Johnson might have been a test case, but he also went from a 4th option to a 1st option. Interestingly, his PER this year (despite inexplicably making hte All-Star game) is similar to his PER the last year in Phoenix…as a fourth option.
February 7th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
“- Barbosa would be a better player as a backup player to Durant. He is a talented player…he just simply is not a PG. Luke might not be a “good” PG…but he is a PG. If we had drafted Barbosa and attempted to play him in the same situations as we have Luke he would not have been nearly as successful as he has been in Phoenix…simple as that.”
This could all be true- if we picked Barbosa, he may not have appeared to be such a strong player - but how would that compare to what we got with Ridnour? True PG or not, who would have contributed to more wins? I’d guess Barbosa.
February 7th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Daniels wasn’t near the passer Luke was, though. I thought the two were complimentary. You can qualify his success by Luke as much as Luke’s by him.
February 7th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Not even on teammates on court with them but team is shooting slightly better (0.5%) with Watson than Ridnour this season (despite being with Durant) and did so very slightly (o.1%) last year too. With Watson was better by a full 1% on team eFG% in 05-06.
On team pts scored it is 1 win each and 1 tie.
February 7th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Daniels wasn’t near the passer Luke was, though. I thought the two were complimentary. You can qualify his success by Luke as much as Luke’s by him.
- I think this is the key thing that most people just choose to ignore…they were actually very good compliments to each other. Perhaps that is why AD hasn’t been nearly as effective in Washington.
This could all be true- if we picked Barbosa, he may not have appeared to be such a strong player - but how would that compare to what we got with Ridnour?
- You know Luke has basically fallen off the face of the Earth the last year…but to basically say that he has never been a good player for the Sonics is pretty stupid. Up until January 2007 he was a league average (to slightly above average) player his entire career. Pretty good for the 14th pick…now no one in the world seems to know what the heck happened to him since the beginning of last year (change in ball, can’t handle competition of Watson, all around mental case, needs talent around him to be talented) but stop making Ridnour out to be the worst player of all time. As someone clearly pointed out…we could’ve had Reece Gaines…
February 7th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
IMO the suns blew it big-time. Shaq is just not “Shaq” anymore. He is done. He has no gas in his tank.
The good news for Sonics fans is we have the Suns #1 pick in 2010. Who knows - this team could crumble in 2 years & be in the lottery. This is more possible now because Shaq is on the books for 2 more years at 20 million - Nash is getting older etc. If they have an injury or something they could start going down fast in 2010 & the Sonics have their unprotected #1 pick.
Just day dreaming a bit - along with shaking my head at the Suns desperation move in this trade. Terrible move by Steve Kerr.
February 7th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
How about this trade next:
http://www1.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=4481171
February 7th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
That what give us a back court of Sweet Jesus!
February 7th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Ugh. That would give us a PG rotation of Sweet Jesus!
There.
February 7th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
“…but stop making Ridnour out to be the worst player of all time. As someone clearly pointed out…we could’ve had Reece Gaines…”
Well I see you’ve still got quite the soft spot for little Luke, despite all of you qualifying remarks to the contrary, because nowhere did I say that he is the worst player of all time…which was in itself a really stupid comment.
I’m not attacking Luke, I’m comparing him to Barbosa who I consider to be heads and tails above Luke as a player. I’d rather have a slashing scorer who can efficiently shoot and play decent defense. We don’t have a guy like that, and we could sure use one, no?
“but stop making Ridnour out to be the worst player of all time. As someone clearly pointed out…we could’ve had Reece Gaines…”
Wow, another example of your keen logic and reasoning skills in action. You’re up there with the indisputable “Wookie Defense”.
February 7th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
That trade would be great for the Sonics, not so great for the Heat. Maybe tolerable if Wilkens opts out but that is not a given. I think Miami has shifted into cap-space mode so they can do what they want this off-season. They will probably shut Wade down soon with “back spasms” and then concentrate on the semi-rebuild they began yesterday.
February 7th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Props to Watson on the triple double and thanks for leading the team to a win. I hope EJlover got to see the game or at least enjoy it.
February 7th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
“I’d rather have a slashing scorer who can efficiently shoot and play decent defense. We don’t have a guy like that, and we could sure use one, no?” {Balloholic}
Leandro Barbosa is garbage on defense.
February 7th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
““Our offensive efficiency in 04 was not smoke and mirrors. It was ball movement, low turnovers and well delivered passes.” {Dork1013}
It was Antonio Daniels. ”
Rashard Lewis’ .571 TS% helped.
04-05 was pretty much the best year of ADs career. They were smart not to re-sign him to the deal he got from the Wizards.
AD is a guy who looks better on paper than in person, IMO. He always has a very high AST/TO ratio … because he is the most conservative passer I have ever seen at the NBA level. I can’t even count how many times that year I saw a mismatch off a switch in the post and AD wouldn’t make the damn entry pass. Or if the angle on the entry wasn’t to his liking he’d just dribble out to the top of the key and then take it to the rack himself.
He also wasn’t shy in the slightest about flapping his yap at everyone and anyone on the team on how to run sets & plays which I can only imagine had to be tiring after a while.
Like Mikki Moore he fit his role well at the price point the Sonics were able to acquire him for. I would not want him on a long term contract.
February 7th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
If you were to go with Ridnour in the future - just as with his one big success year- you’d need to give him enough shooters. Young slashers… I do not think are a sound strategy with him in the half court- unless he rediscovered shooting confidence and starting nailing the 3 pointer hiself (the pass back outside option) at least double his per game career average. With Ridnour they’d have to run more and better but they have had 4 1/2 years to see that happen and it really hasn’t.
February 7th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
And no doubt Earl deserves props for yesterday’s game … congrats on the career best to EW.
February 7th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
That what give us a back court of Sweet Jesus!
Or commonly referred to as “White Chocolate and Whipped Cream”.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Matching A Daniels’ deal might not have been the safest or highest value return possible - not every deal has to max quality, some just need to be good enough or better than the alternatives. Giving the same level of money to Ridnour later and to Watson took that sound decision in isolation to a bad conclusion. If you gave up what you had with Daniels you better be darn sure Ridnour was the right starter guy and I didnt see enough to that point to have their level of confidence in him or at the time of giving him an early good money extension.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
Mad props for the win last night, Earl! Way to go!
Frozenropers Says:
+/- definately has value, just needs to be viewed in context and compared to what is seen visually in order to determine if it is making sense logically. If not, then question.
I think +/- stats don’t have nearly as much value for analyzing bench players on teams where the starters have a huge minus. Typically, this means the bench players are playing a lot of garbage time against the deep reserves of the competition. This has often been the case for Ridnour as an example. Typically, he’ll have negative +/- for the early part of the game and then make up for it in the 4th quarter when the Sonics start out down 20+ and only end up losing by a dozen. So Ridnour goes +8 for the 4th quarter – big whoop!
On the 14th pick, I wanted Barbosa over Ridnour but in hindsight, even Reece Gaines would’ve been a better choice since Gaines would’ve long been gone & forgotton, the Sonics would’ve drafted another PG in the meantime, and we wouldn’t now have an additional $6M/yr contract wasting away on the bench.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
On a less argumentative note: did you see Luke’s two dishes to Weezy? Sweet. Eyes in the back of his head or maybe Luke can specifically hear Weezy’s footsteps. That you won’t find in any stat sheet or scouting report. “Hears footsteps of teammates at high level.” “Excellent passer on assumptions.” “Can smell what teammates had for pre-game meal and deliver ball accordingly.”
February 7th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Crunching the numbers looking at the modest added value of assists vs the large value lost for turnovers I value safe passing. I grant that maybe Daniels took it too far and could have been even better if he hadn’t so cautious.
At this point they need a point guard with at least some of his attributes in the PG mix more than we need to go over his case here much further, again.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
West here is certainly not AD like on passing safety or inside scoring. A disappointment given the modest similarity that you could draw from his Boston stats- at least if you were hoping for AD2.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Just day dreaming a bit - along with shaking my head at the Suns desperation move in this trade. Terrible move by Steve Kerr.
- See my reasoning above why this trade is actually not terrible at all…although it most likely will not lead to a championship…
I’m not attacking Luke, I’m comparing him to Barbosa who I consider to be heads and tails above Luke as a player. I’d rather have a slashing scorer who can efficiently shoot and play decent defense. We don’t have a guy like that, and we could sure use one, no?
- To say that people on this board do not consider Luke a complete bust of a draft pick and not a real NBA player just isn’t true. Those people need to stop looking through Ridnour’s hating glasses and admit that until last January he was a pretty decent player…
I don’t get what (if any) qualifier I used when creating the argument by the way…all I said is that no one seems to know how a player who was decent could suddenly turn into a pretty poor player…especially one who has never had issues with “work ethic” (i.e. we aren’t talking about a Vin Baker’eque eating and alcohol binge drop off)…this isn’t a qualifier it is a genuine mystery that im sure even Ridnour would like to figure out.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Extra film after extra minutes in Boston has totally shown the inability of West to finish with his right hand. Teams are camping on his left shoulder. He is going into games with score only mentality and has less options with his poor offhand.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
And no doubt Earl deserves props for yesterday’s game … congrats on the career best to EW.
- I agree…good job Earl…
February 7th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
I shouldnt have repeated the Wally - Portland rumor last night on first glance. I was curious about it but should have waited for more corroboration.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
Extra film after extra minutes in Boston has totally shown the inability of West to finish with his right hand. Teams are camping on his left shoulder. He is going into games with score only mentality and has less options with his poor offhand.
- As a lefty myself…I’ve always wondered why leftys seem to have a harder time developing their right hand than the other way around.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
“Extra film after extra minutes in Boston has totally shown the inability of West to finish with his right hand. Teams are camping on his left shoulder. He is going into games with score only mentality and has less options with his poor offhand. ”
Yeah, he’s definitely been scouted on that.
I would not tender Delonte the QO at this point.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Dork is on to something with West. Players do get figured out and either can still do what they want anyways by being superior in athleticism or skill or timing /desire or have to change. West probably has to develop more, diversify, finetune timing & technique watching a lot of tape and doing a lot of 1 on 1 work in / before and after practice. he may have been pretty good but you have to work real hard to stay there too.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
In 04-05 Ridnour was still fairly unknown and certainly not game planned against much and that worked to his advantage, particularly with the cast around him drawing the attention. Folks know him better now too.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Luke would be a good player where he was the fourth option on the team. For instance…I think if you put him on Boston right now he does as good as Rondo….but if you are ever relying on him being one of your scoring options you are basically SOL.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
“Just day dreaming a bit - along with shaking my head at the Suns desperation move in this trade. Terrible move by Steve Kerr.
- See my reasoning above why this trade is actually not terrible at all…although it most likely will not lead to a championship…”
There’s a new article on Hoopshype penned by Eddie Johnson about this… it’s interesting.
“I’m not attacking Luke, I’m comparing him to Barbosa who I consider to be heads and tails above Luke as a player. I’d rather have a slashing scorer who can efficiently shoot and play decent defense. We don’t have a guy like that, and we could sure use one, no?
- To say that people on this board do not consider Luke a complete bust of a draft pick and not a real NBA player just isn’t true. Those people need to stop looking through Ridnour’s hating glasses and admit that until last January he was a pretty decent player…
Just read what I said. I did not say that “people on this board…blah blah” I said I’m just comparing Barbosa to Rid and I have no idea where you came up with that. Barbosa, IMO, is a better player at this point than any guard on our roster. The only reason I’m comparing him to Luke is because we drafted Luke instead of Barbosa…
“Those people need to stop looking through Ridnour’s hating glasses and admit that until last January he was a pretty decent player”
You’re admitedly the biggest Watson hater on this board, so that’s pretty hypocritical.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
As an ambidextrous guy, who is left handed in sports, I say that yeah that most pure left handed guys are reliant on their left hands more, but some seem to have better success with being left-handed than righties because defenders aren’t use to guarding the left side, in the lower levels. But as an ambidextrous who relies mostly on his left hand, I would say that I have a more developed right hand than most people my age have left.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
And yes, speedcat definitely ROCKS!
February 7th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
And before I forget …
gung hay fat choy everyone! welcome to the year of the rat
February 7th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
“I shouldnt have repeated the Wally - Portland rumor last night on first glance. I was curious about it but should have waited for more corroboration.”
I don’t care it it’s a rumored Eric Piatkowski for Carnie Philips trade, please share. My getting through the work day depends on it.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
I don’t really like the PHX deal either. It makes sense for Miami…..but not so much for PHX.
Maybe PHX has concluded that the run and gun style won’t yield a championship and another 1/2 court low post prescence is needed to compete with the San Antonios and Dallas Mavericks of the world. That in combination with the fact that Marion has been adimate about wanting out probably led to the deal. Plus they got to dump Marcus Banks. Time will tell.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
I shouldnt have repeated the Wally - Portland rumor last night on first glance. I was curious about it but should have waited for more corroboration.
We love rumors…..please share……though looking over Portland’s roster I have a hard time seeing how a deal makes sense for the two franchises.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
I think you mean Carnie Wilson. I’d trade for Chyna Phillips.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Wally for Jarrett Jack and a lot of salary?
February 7th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
I did not like the trade for Phoenix at first, but - there is another aspect to this trade, which, in hindsight, may go a long way toward explaining what Kerr and D’Antoni were thinking: the chemistry and locker-room boost every player on that Suns team will get from having a player of Shaq’s stature (no pun intended) on board.
There should not be one player on that team today that doubts whether they can win it all this year or next. Given their playoff record in recent years, that’s something they probably didn’t have with the cancerous Marion, and something they probably never could’ve had without a dominant big man.
Shaq is one of the more charismatic and engaging players in the league, and that has to give them a tremendous shot of confidence. They were already a very good team - but how much better might they be now if everyone on the team finds the inspiration to elevate their game even 5% above where they were yesterday - knowing that a championship is actually within reach.
Even is Shaq is only 70% of the player he was when Miami won it all - he’s still a double-team magnet, playing with a group of guys no opponent dares leave open. The Lakers may be their only serious competition - New Orleans is too young and lacks depth, San Antonio has injury issues, and Dallas is notoriously soft in the playoffs.
How much fun would a Lakers-Suns Western Conference Finals be, knowing how much Jackson and D’Antoni hate each other.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=831~2422~2768~550~682&teams=22~22~25~25~25&te=&cash=
It could work!
February 7th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Which NBA Finals would be more fun to watch now?
Lakers - Boston
or
Suns - Boston
February 7th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
“I think you mean Carnie Wilson. I’d trade for Chyna Phillips”
Yep you’re right. Chyna Philips could definitely hop on my All 90’s Teen Fantasy Squad, but I’d be reluctant to pursue that deal today, as time has no doubt flattened those once firm and bouncy tires.
February 7th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
“I shouldnt have repeated the Wally - Portland rumor last night on first glance. I was curious about it but should have waited for more corroboration.” {Crow}
“Wally for Jarrett Jack and a lot of salary?” {Menace}
Reportedly, it was something like Wally Szczerbiak to the Portland Trailblazers for Raef LaFrentz — which’d just be a simple salary swap, as LaFrentz’s contract also expires after next season — and Sergio Rodriguez, who’d become the newly anointed point guard of the future. I’m not a fan of Rodriguez, though, so it’s not a good idea in my book.
“It could work!” {Vinny}
1. The Portland Trailblazers need Joel Przybilla.
2. Nate McMillan is supposedly fond of Jarrett Jack.
2. Darius Miles has one of the worst contracts in the NBA.
February 7th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
I think it was a great trade for the Suns. They didn’t have a chance against the best in the west without making this move. Also, Shaq traditionally takes the season off and gears up for the playoffs. I think they now have a great 3-yr window and having Marcus Banks off the books won’t interfere by the time they want to re-tool.
How much fun would a Lakers-Suns Western Conference Finals be, knowing how much Jackson and D’Antoni hate each other.
I can dig it.
Which NBA Finals would be more fun to watch now?
Lakers - Boston
or
Suns - Boston
Dig both of those scenarios as well. If TP gets healthy, i’ll also put the Spurs in the mix.
February 7th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Wally for Jarrett Jack and a lot of salary?
Yeah, for some reason the first time I glanced at Portland’s roster, I thougth LaFrentz’s contract ran for one additional year past Channel Z’s. They are the same length, so I guess you could make that swap……just depends on how much the front office likes Jarrett Jack. He could be a bit more complimentary adding some size at the PG position if we could get rid of one of our existing PG’s in another deal……..
If the front office isn’t big on Jack, then it would be hard to give up the professionalism and adding scoring punch that Wally has added to the roster…….and his leadership seems to be good for the youngin’s right now. But if you see Jack as a core piece of the future, then maybe you make that deal.
February 7th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Yep you’re right. Chyna Philips could definitely hop on my All 90’s Teen Fantasy Squad, but I’d be reluctant to pursue that deal today, as time has no doubt flattened those once firm and bouncy tires.
- LOL!
February 7th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
“Yep you’re right. Chyna Philips could definitely hop on my All 90’s Teen Fantasy Squad, but I’d be reluctant to pursue that deal today, as time has no doubt flattened those once firm and bouncy tires.” {Balloholic}
Tiffani-Amber Thiessen gets the #1 spot.
February 7th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Shaq is Kareem. Kareem is Shaq. It’s gonna work. Why does Mozilla spell check pick up Shaq but not Kareem?
February 7th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
“There should not be one player on that team today that doubts whether they can win it all this year or next. Given their playoff record in recent years, that’s something they probably didn’t have with the cancerous Marion…”
I wish the Sonics had Marion cancer.
February 7th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Marion cancer. hahah.
PHX 34-15
February 7th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
I initially thought Lafrentz was one year shorter than Wally and saw it stated that way on one salary site and that gave a plausible rationale why Presti might be interested in him but 2 other sites show him with 2 years remainig, though one says it is sure and one says it is his option. That is ambigous but he is probably 2 years and that would remove the possible interest to Bennett/Presti in my eyes.
February 7th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
I initially thought Lafrentz was one year shorter than Wally and saw it stated that way on one salary site and that gave a plausible rationale why Presti might be interested in him but 2 other sites show him with 2 years remainig, though one says it is sure and one says it is his option. That is ambigous but he is probably 2 years and that would remove the possible interest to Bennett/Presti in my eyes.
Yeah, I couldn’t see that Sonics taking on LaFrentz if he contract goes one year longer than Channel Z’s. If they are the same….maybe it is something they consider, in order to add Jack if they really like him………if they are not really high on Jack (and I’m not sure he’s a good starter yet, but who knows) then they probably don’t give us Channel Z for LAfrentz who seems to be hurt all the time or just can’t get in the rotation down there.
February 7th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
Wow! My post was a gramatical, mis-worded nightmare…..
February 7th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
“gung hay fat choy everyone! welcome to the year of the rat”
I think that may be the best “pinyin” that can be done for new year celebratory phrase.
Rondo and Luke aren’t close to being on the same level. Rondo is one of the best defensive point guards in the NBA; they both have shaky jumpers but Rondo is younger and has more room for growth in that department. Besides, he has similar quickness as guys such as Harris, Barbosa, and Parker and should be able to get to the rim in upcoming years. Take your eye off PER for a second.
February 7th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
Jack is finishing inside pretty well but not that often and is not passing safely. His individual defense is pretty good but theteam defense is nothing special. He is better as a SG. You could do worse but he isn’t steps above current Sonics. I wouldn’t make a move on him based on “potential”. He is not suited to leading the break. It would be somewhat odd if they went after him.
February 7th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
“If the front office isn’t big on Jack, then it would be hard to give up the professionalism and adding scoring punch that Wally has added to the roster…….and his leadership seems to be good for the youngin’s right now. But if you see Jack as a core piece of the future, then maybe you make that deal. ”
I don’t think Jack would represent enough of an upgrade over what’s currently here. He’d bring more size to the PG position but seems too offensively challenged for my liking. I figure that if he’s done developing he likely isn’t a guy that’s going to be worth starter’s money when his rookie deal is up, and if he’s not done developing I’d rather pursue a guy with a higher ceiling. YMMV.
February 7th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Its hard to imagine a deal with Portland. They have so many young players with lower end salaries……it would take the combination of a lot of players to make it work.
Unless it involves Steve Francis? yikes
Nobody is taking Darius Miles and an additional year.
I would think it has to involve LaFrentz. Hoopshype has his contract ending in 08/09. Same as Wally.
I don’t see them trading Pryzybilla who is paid modestly for a center. Oden, Aldridge. or Roy aren’t going anywhere.
Steve Blake (expiring deal)? Still only $4.2 mm.
Outlaw, Webster, Jones, Channing Frye?
Jack and Rodriguez combined make $2 mm.
February 7th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
The Marion cancer reference was in regard to his open desire to leave Phoenix, and their having shopped him for 2+ years now. Their record in the meantime obviously speaks volumes…I was just pointing out that neither party was happy with the other, and with the Shaq trade the Suns removed that problem.
February 7th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Chynna Phillips is 40 with kids and not acting as hot as she was when she was singing or trying to act but she is still classically pretty and probably still quite hot. William Baldwin is surely finishing inside well.
February 7th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
“I initially thought Lafrentz was one year shorter than Wally and saw it stated that way on one salary site and that gave a plausible rationale why Presti might be interested in him but 2 other sites show him with 2 years remainig, though one says it is sure and one says it is his option. That is ambigous but he is probably 2 years and that would remove the possible interest to Bennett/Presti in my eyes.” {Crow}
http://tinyurl.com/yw7eba
http://tinyurl.com/yqy663
Wally Szczerbiak is earning $12,775,000 this season and $13,775,000 next season — with $775,000 from each season being a trade kicker that’s paid for by the Boston Celtics via its deal with the Minnesota Timberwolves on 1/27/2006 — while Raef LaFrentz is earning $12,440,787 this season and $12,722,500 next season. Although LaFrentz has an early termination option in his contract after this season, he won’t exercise it. In essence, Szczerbiak and LaFrentz are owed just about the same amount of money.
February 7th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
“The Marion cancer reference was in regard to his open desire to leave Phoenix, and their having shopped him for 2+ years now. Their record in the meantime obviously speaks volumes…I was just pointing out that neither party was happy with the other, and with the Shaq trade the Suns removed that problem.”
I know, I was just teasing. A lot of people are speculating that the team as a whole was really ready to move on from dealing w/ Marion. Though I’ve also heard that the apparent “rift” between him and his teamates is total BS and that he just doesn’t deal well w/ the trade rumors.
Either way it just goes to show that one team’s cancer is another teams meal ticket.
February 7th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
I read the hoopshype data wrong. It does say end in summer 09 same as Wally and that would make it 2 sites saying so (patricia’s is the other) against storyteller’s saying he has an option year. I drifted into thinking Wally had 2 years beyond this season which is incorrect.
February 7th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
http://www.absolutenow.com/photos/6100_baldwi33360.html
February 7th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
A fairly recent photo of Chynna if you are inclined.
February 7th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Thanks for the good wishes Alex.
The year of the rat.
Fits.
Hope it the year the big “rat” gets stirfryed in court.
February 7th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
“Its hard to imagine a deal with Portland. They have so many young players with lower end salaries……it would take the combination of a lot of players to make it work.
Unless it involves Steve Francis? yikes
Nobody is taking Darius Miles and an additional year.
I would think it has to involve LaFrentz. Hoopshype has his contract ending in 08/09. Same as Wally.
I don’t see them trading Pryzybilla who is paid modestly for a center. Oden, Aldridge. or Roy aren’t going anywhere.
Steve Blake (expiring deal)? Still only $4.2 mm.
Outlaw, Webster, Jones, Channing Frye?
Jack and Rodriguez combined make $2 mm.” {Menace}
The Portland Trailblazers released Steve Francis immediately after acquiring him this past off-season, so they don’t have any rights to him. Hell, Francis is currently wasting away on the Houston Rockets inactive list due to knee tendinitis and chronic bitchiness.
You’re right that nobody wants Darius Miles. Also, it’s pretty obvious that Kevin Pritchard won’t break up the Portland Trailblazers’ core of LaMarcus Aldridge, Brandon Roy, et cetera.
Steve Blake doesn’t have an expiring deal; he was signed to a three-year, multi-million dollar contract this past off-season. Besides, Blake and Jarrett Jack are unlikely to be traded elsewhere at this point in time without a viable replacement.
http://tinyurl.com/2fa3nm
In all likelihood, it’d be something along the lines of Pritchard offering Raef LaFrentz and Sergio Rodriguez to Sam Presti for Wally Szczerbiak. I, without question, would much rather have Szczerbiak kept in the fold than settle for that awful deal.
February 7th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Bennett’s arena proposal was either a total scam or just an extreme longball. Schultz’s insistence on 1 more year of trying was likewise- mostly to try to help him recede from view, recede from his breach of community trustee role he self-declared. It made Bennett look bad eventually but he knew it was coming. Part of the price. it all goes back to Howard. If Starbucks hadn’t started to buckle in the stock market maybe he wouldn’t have pulled out. Realistically he had to get back to tending to that.
February 7th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Ideally he should have just sold shares to other partners to became a smaller shareholder or out completely. There is talk that some were interested but it didnt happen so who knows how serious that talk was at the price he wanted to exit with. I hope NBA bylaws didn’t prevent that in view of the approaching lease end. But that is rehash about the previous “rat”.
February 7th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
I’m a Scorpio who was born in the year of the Rat.
I was born in the evening, too, during a stormy night.
If y’all believe in that sort of stuff, then there’s your explination for my personality.
February 7th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Rondo and Luke aren’t close to being on the same level. Rondo is one of the best defensive point guards in the NBA; they both have shaky jumpers but Rondo is younger and has more room for growth in that department
- What evidence do we have that Rondo is one the best defensive point guards in the NBA? If Allen can go from being one of the worst to being pretty good in Boston I don’t think you can take that into account. Rondo would not do any better here then Luke or Earl would…playing with three good/great players does wonders to cover up for a players poor abilities…
February 7th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Rondo is in that zone of 1 on 1 defensive stats that is alright. His team defense on this year with Garnett is great but you could argue or wonder if that is coasting off Garnett. But last season his team defense on/off was -8. That suggests to me he is probably good. He was in college too make this stat credible.
February 7th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Man, you’re really grasping to put in a good word for Luke there, Myk. I though you were over that? Maybe Allen is a better defender this year because he’s playing next to Rondo instead of Ridnour.
February 7th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Chyna Phillips? Must be a generational gap.
Portland is already a pretty good three point shooting team (+4.8 points from the three-point line this season from the 2006-2007 season). While there is no such thing as having too many competent three-point shooters, addding Wally would not address their biggest concern, which is rebounding and more specificially, keeping teams off the offensive glass (-2 offensive rebounds per game). If I were Kevin Pritchard and my primary goal in trading Jack was to make the playoffs, I would want Kurt Thomas instead of Wally.
February 7th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
It would seem necessary to move a PG before acquiring another as acquiring another first would seem likely to drive the trade value of the current guys down as other GMs would think Presti would be under more pressure to deal one than now.
February 7th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
But you only need one trading partner / one right situation. Maybe you could find that later.
Portland does need to at least protect their rebounding til Oden gets in. I can’t see a Joel P. trade because of that. They are short on rebounding now maybe Oden might fixes it himself, maybe not. I don’t think they are sweating the playoffs and hot for Thomas but they might go for that if they could for scraps.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
“Man, you’re really grasping to put in a good word for Luke there, Myk. I though you were over that? Maybe Allen is a better defender this year because he’s playing next to Rondo instead of Ridnour. ”
Or they’re both good defenders this year because they have two shotblocking presences in the middle.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
Crow, out of the ten teams in contention for playoff spots in the West, I think Portland is the team most likely to miss the playoffs. Their point and efficiency differentials are a lot worse than the point differentials for Houston and Golden State. It is difficult for them to continue banking on winning close games when Travis Outlaw is the guy taking most of their crunch-time shots.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
Maybe Allen is a better defender this year because he’s playing next to Rondo instead of Ridnour.
Or because Perkins and KG got his back there instead of……um…..instead of……um….Swift, Petro, Wilcox and Collison when Ray was hear.
It definately helps the perimeter defenders to have big shot blocking presence waiting in the key for when they get beat. Tends to deter finishing in the lane a bit.
One of the reason’s many here have been begging for a legit center here for so many years. If you build a team with weak perimeter defenders one way to help offset them is to have a strong shot blocking presence in the paint.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Alex, Chynna Phillips (not to be confused with the wrestler with similar name) was briefly a pop singer / eye candy hit in early 90s. Her Mom was a good pop singer / eye candy girl in the 60s. Chynna probably took her singing heritage seriously and tried to sing fairly serious / grown up ala maybe Sheryl Crow or Jewel. If she had only wanted money she probably should have gone more like Madonna or Britney Spears. But she didn’t.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Change of subject…..
Has anyone heard ANYTHING about a new arena or how the moving of the court case to June will impact Clays move request that is scheduled to go to the NBA owners in June?
Am I missing something or is the effort to keep the Sonics here in Seattle dead? I know the city has said they will fight to enforce the next 2 years of the lease but even with that - what is up with a new arena plan? Is anything happening?
February 7th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
No news yet JJ. The insiders are still holding their cards.
I agree with your assessment of Portland’s chances this yerar Alex. Next year Oden will improve their defensive rebounding and FG% allowed and make them a better than average offensive team but do they improve from near average on offense simply from player growth? they might but it isnt guaranteed. Aldridge and Roy might be near their maxs. Time will tell.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
oden = better “defense” in above post of course
February 7th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Or because Perkins and KG got his back there instead of……um…
Sorry, I should have said maybe “part” of the reason.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Roy increase eFG% from year 1 to year 2 by a modest 1%pt, 3pt FG% fell 4.5%. he increase shots taken by only 1.5 and FTs by only .4.
Rebounding improved slightly. Assist up almost 50% percentagewise. Defense improved nicely at individual level but not with teammates at team level.
Aldridge eFG%, rebound rate per 48, blocks all fell from year 1 to year 2. He added 3 shots and 1 FTA but can he add more?
February 7th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
Aldridge’s individual defense is fine but team defense weak as with Roy. Portland is counting on Oden to provide the defense as many teams count on centers to do. He probably will deliver it.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
Yeah…not quite sure what I was thinking with Steve Francis. He obviously isn’t a Blazer anymore.
Chynna Phillips…..not to be confused with Chyna Doll. But I could see how Carnie Wilson might……
http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/73531188.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF193F4690BDD119B3A6DACB82310966CF1B9284831B75F48EF45
Hold on for one more day?
Maybe Ray Allen is the same defensively that he always has been…..but its overlooked even more due to the success of his team. Again….numbers aren’t everything.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
Portland’s opponent field goal percentage is pretty good. They do a very good job forcing teams to shoot a low percentage from the three-point line. They give up a higher number of three point attempts per game from the three-point line than the league median but the low three-point percentage suggests that they are doing a good job rotating out to the shooters to disturb their shots.
Their initial defense appears sound. Imagine how low their opponent field goal percentage would be if they didn’t get decimated on the offensive boards. Oden, if healthy, should be able to rectify that issue next season. As for this season, the likelihood of them making the playoffs may depend on their ability to add a frontcourt player capable of keeping opponents off the offensive glass.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
So Ray coming off yet another surgery is now all of a sudden better defensively? Maybe he is on roids. Doesn’t seem like a natural progression. Maybe he is just a freak.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
I’ve been gone, and have not been able to read every post since I pointed out that Ridnour could not make a pimple on Barbosa’s butt. I have a few things to do before I can read everything that has been written since my post, but I read a few of them.
Let me just state again, so that there can be no confusion:
The most important thing for every baskeball player at every position is SHOOTING, SHOOTING and SHOOTING. Luke can’t shoot. Therefore, Luke can’t play. Period. There is absolutely nothing he could do that can make up for the fact that he can’t shoot. The essence of basketball is shooting.
There are only 2 great plays — “South Pacific”, and Put the Ball in the Basket.
Barbosa can shoot, and Luke can’t. Therefore, Barbosa is a better point guard than Luke.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
I see your several new posts AK now showing above.
Real GM link adds support that LaFrentz has 08-09 season option (thanks) and as you say and everyone knows he will exercise it. Perhaps he could be bought out though if he wasnt going to play and save a $1 or 2 mil. If Bennett cares. He probably would more than winning now.
You mention Tiffani-Amber Thiessen. Pleasant girl. Antithesis of the skinny blonde Phillips. Lots of kinds of beauty.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
Oh no. Not again.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Menace, don’t you think removing a bone spur the size of a basketball might’ve helped a little?
February 7th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Thanks for the additional detail on Portland’s 3 pt defense Alex. it is a useful thing to check and a way to understanddefensive philosophy and results. Nate will probably get them further dialed in with Oden’s assistance.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
Kelly Kapowski would crush Chynna Phillips (in her prime) in the octagon.
The most important thing for every entertainer is VOICE, VOICE and VOICE. Madonna can’t sing. Therefore, Madonna can’t play. Period. There is absolutely nothing he could do that can make up for the fact that she can’t sing. The essence of essence of entertainment singing.
Barbara Streisand can shoot, and Madonna can’t. Therefore, Barbera Streisand is a better entertainer than Madonna.
February 7th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Best body = Jessica Biel or Sofia Vergara
Best face = Kristin Kreuk
Best classic beauty = Nicole Kidman or Diane Kruger
Trashy but still hot = Victoria Silvstedt
Hottest up and comer = Rachel Bilson!
February 7th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
“Menace, don’t you think removing a bone spur the size of a basketball might’ve helped a little?”
Sure. But for a guy not known for his D……… in year 13 he all of a sudden gets better at D? Strange progression. Usually with age people get slower. I’m not disputing the fact that Ray may be better defensively this year. He very well could be. Maybe he changes his entire defensive approach this year. But it just doesn’t seem logical. Whats the basis for this claim anyway?
February 7th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Whats the basis for this claim anyway?
Just wondering aloud.
Maybe as third fiddle, since he’s not spending the entire game running like crazy to get open all of the time, maybe he’s able to apply a little more energy on defense.
February 7th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Or as third fiddle he doesn’t have to guard as good a player?
February 7th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
I think it helps to have two 7-footers behind you, with one being well-known for tenacious defense (KG). It forces the opposing guards to settle for outside jumpers and allows Allen to take a few more gambles in the passing lane.
February 7th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
When the wing positions are Rondo, Pierce, and Allen vs Ridnour, Rashard, Allen……….your defensive assignment is bound to be a little easier. Especially when Pierce can take the big scorer.
You D might look a lot better if your guarding
T-Mac vs Alston/Battier
Willie Green vs Iguodala/Andre Miller
Sasha Pavlovic vs Lebron/Hughes
Bobby Simmons vs Redd
just a thought….
February 7th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Alston/battier vs t-mac……but you get the idea.
February 7th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
KG’s obviously the difference maker but it’s not like the T-Wolves were known as a great defensive team. I think the only time they cracked the top 10 was the year they made the conference finals. With the level the Celtics are defending this year, it seems like it would have something to do with everyone in the line-up doing their part.
When the wing positions are Rondo, Pierce, and Allen vs Ridnour, Rashard, Allen……….your defensive assignment is bound to be a little easier.
Ray playing next to Rondo vs Ridnour was the whole reason I went off on that tangent. And i’ve always believed that having a strong defensive presense at the SF position is a key to getting a title.
February 7th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
The skinny young “Kelly Kapowski” probably would like Chynna Phillips’ ass in the octagon. Ha.
Chynna had that smoky eye /aloof vibe though that worked pretty good on me.
Menace you say Madonna can’t shoot but I heard she could score. But to be clear I didnt dig her at all.
ajw I never got Nicole Kidman at all. No thanks.
Biel seems overrated but alright.
Kristin Kreuk is interesting / complex / maybe a little serious or sad for easy staring but a beauty. Didnt know about Diane Kruger. havent seen that much of Rachel Bilson and I guess she is alright. Work it while you got it.
February 7th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Victoria Silvstedt was pretty good as the big bubbly
blondeshell.
February 7th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
Surely the only reason Presti does this trade with Portland is if they throw in a draft pick or two. Presti seems to be pretty hot on stocking picks, and Portland certainly don’t need any right now (15 players on the roster, and the rights to another seven - most of them stashed away in Europe).
Pritchard and Nate obviously want some production out of the two-year $12mill contract slot that they have. They certainly don’t get a lot out of Raef nowadays. I’d be guessing that they figure having Wally for the same price would give them more bang for their buck. But they’d have to bribe Presti with Sergio and a pick to make it happen.
February 7th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Yeah that makes sense Martin.
February 7th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Another adjusted +/- comment: I was surprised there were as many Sonics in positive range as there was. I am somewhat suspicious of that. There is a tendency for the +/- method to stretch the team to poles with some bad and some good based on relative strength to each other. There can’t be many truly good on a team with this record. Adjusted +/- doesnt seem to compare players on different teams as well as I hoped. But it another number for the debate.
February 7th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Another adjusted +/- comment: I was surprised there were as many Sonics in positive range as there was. I am somewhat suspicious of that.
Crow, I mentioned my thoughts on this earlier this afternoon. It has alot to do with abundant garbage time for the bench players, imo.
http://sonicscentral.com/blog/?p=1678#comment-380663
February 7th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
“Menace you say Madonna can’t shoot but I heard she could score. But to be clear I didnt dig her at all.” {Crow}
LMFAO! +100
“Best body = Jessica Biel or Sofia Vergara
Best face = Kristin Kreuk
Best classic beauty = Nicole Kidman or Diane Kruger
Trashy but still hot = Victoria Silvstedt
Hottest up and comer = Rachel Bilson!” {Ajw}
These are my selections.
Best All-Around: Kate Hudson
Best Face: Kate Hudson
Best Chest: Jessica Biel
Best Body: Shakira
Best Ass: Jessica Alba
Barely Legal: Hayden Panettiere
Best Over 30: Jenna Fischer
Best Over 40: Heather Locklear
There y’all have it.
February 7th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
“Change of subject…..
Has anyone heard ANYTHING about a new arena or how the moving of the court case to June will impact Clays move request that is scheduled to go to the NBA owners in June?”
I haven’t heard anything about the arena, but a family friend of mine knows a bunch of senior people at Microsoft who swear that Ballmer would LOVE to buy the team and is pestering Bennett about it every day.
It would seem that if the judge upholds the lease, we can start boycotting games/merchandise and force Bennett to sell to Ballmer.
February 7th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
I saw those comments Dick and I agree that is part of the dynamic.
February 7th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
Dipper said:
“There are only 2 great plays — South Pacific, and Put the Ball in the Basket.”
Great line.
February 7th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Well, I did not make that line up, of course. Wish I had. It was some college coach from quite a few years back. You can google that quote if you are interested in it, to see who made it up. I think I got it right, word-for-word.
February 7th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/jack_mccallum/news/2003/03/21/mailbag/
Asked why he shoots so many 3s, Antoine Walker recently responded, “Because there are no 4s.” But my favorite quote of all time was Derrick Coleman’s response when asked why he didn’t go hunting with teammate Jayson Williams: “Because we play the same position.” What are some of the best quotes you’ve come across?
—Albeon Jackson, Ridgeland, S.C.
Moses Malone was a great source of humorous quotes, though he wasn’t always aware of it. Asked what he was going to do over the summer, Moses said, “Swimming pool.” The questioner said, “Oh, you have a swimming pool?” Malone replied, “No. Swim. And pool.”
Another great quote came from the mouth of an old Russian coach named Alexander Gomelsky after he was asked to identify the reasons for a dreadful shooting game by both teams. He shrugged and said, “Many shoot. Few make.” The late Charlie Eckert, a former referee and announcer, offered this classic line about the utter simplicity of this game. “There are only two great plays,” said Charlie. “Put the ball in the basket. And South Pacific.”
Sports Illustrated senior writer Jack McCallum will answer your NBA questions every week during the season. Click here to send him a question.
February 7th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
Darn. My post is in moderation. So I will post it again here without the link.
Asked why he shoots so many 3s, Antoine Walker recently responded, “Because there are no 4s.” But my favorite quote of all time was Derrick Coleman’s response when asked why he didn’t go hunting with teammate Jayson Williams: “Because we play the same position.” What are some of the best quotes you’ve come across?
—Albeon Jackson, Ridgeland, S.C.
Moses Malone was a great source of humorous quotes, though he wasn’t always aware of it. Asked what he was going to do over the summer, Moses said, “Swimming pool.” The questioner said, “Oh, you have a swimming pool?” Malone replied, “No. Swim. And pool.”
Another great quote came from the mouth of an old Russian coach named Alexander Gomelsky after he was asked to identify the reasons for a dreadful shooting game by both teams. He shrugged and said, “Many shoot. Few make.” The late Charlie Eckert, a former referee and announcer, offered this classic line about the utter simplicity of this game. “There are only two great plays,” said Charlie. “Put the ball in the basket. And South Pacific.”
Sports Illustrated senior writer Jack McCallum will answer your NBA questions every week during the season. Click here to send him a question.
February 7th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
“Their initial defense appears sound. Imagine how low their opponent field goal percentage would be if they didn’t get decimated on the offensive boards. Oden, if healthy, should be able to rectify that issue next season. As for this season, the likelihood of them making the playoffs may depend on their ability to add a frontcourt player capable of keeping opponents off the offensive glass.” {Alex Chan}
“Pritchard and Nate obviously want some production out of the two-year $12mill contract slot that they have. They certainly don’t get a lot out of Raef nowadays.” {MartinH}
With Martell Webster and James Jones already locked in at small forward, Wally Szczerbiak really wouldn’t really fill a void for the Portland Trailblazers. Webster and Jones are efficient three-point shooters, too, which is Szczerbiak’s specialty.
Instead, the acquisition of a reserve interior presence to backup Joel Przybilla — as well as take away minutes from Travis Outlaw, who’s a liability defensively and on the glass when playing out of position — would do the trick. With Radoslav Nesterovic having been recently removed from the Toronto Raptors rotation, Kevin Pritchard should attempt to obtain the big Slovene’s services.
FROM PORTLAND & TO TORONTO
C Raef LaFrentz ($12,440,787)
SG Rudy Fernandez (Draft Rights)
PG Petteri Koponen (Draft Rights)
FROM TORONTO & TO PORTLAND
C Radoslav Nesterovic ($7,840,000)
SG Juan Dixon ($2,550,000)
http://tinyurl.com/2poc39
For the Toronto Raptors, Raef LaFrentz would be an adequate fit as its backup center — especially compared to Nesterovic, who’s out of place within Sam Mitchell’s spread offense — behind Andrea Bargnani. In addition, picking up the draft rights of both Rudy Fernandez and Petteri Koponen would provide the organization with future backcourt depth.
Regarding the Trailblazers, I’ve already gone over the benefits of getting Nesterovic. The return of Juan Dixon, however, would give the ballclub a useful backup to Brandon Roy. Yet, unfortunately for rookie Taurean Green — who’s $711,517 salary for next season is non-guaranteed — he’d be waived to make room on the roster for Dixon.
February 7th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
Obviously, I forgot to close the italics tag.
February 7th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
“ajw I never got Nicole Kidman at all. No thanks.
Biel seems overrated but alright.
Kristin Kreuk is interesting / complex / maybe a little serious or sad for easy staring but a beauty. Didnt know about Diane Kruger. havent seen that much of Rachel Bilson and I guess she is alright. Work it while you got it. ”
You’re right Crow, Jessica Biel is a bit overrated. However, I’d still love to go down and do the dirty on her.
I picked Kidman as my classic beauty because I remembered watching a perfume commercial with her in it wearing a long black gown. She looked amazing and reminded me of some of the beauties in the 60’s.
February 7th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
“Surely the only reason Presti does this trade with Portland is if they throw in a draft pick or two. Presti seems to be pretty hot on stocking picks, and Portland certainly don’t need any right now (15 players on the roster, and the rights to another seven - most of them stashed away in Europe).”
Pretty sure Portland can afford to deal some of their picks seeing as how loaded they are with young talent. Their starting 5 is pretty much set when Oden comes back. If I were Pritchard I’d probably ship off a PG or two; then fill in the bench with some vets that have playoff experience.
February 7th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
“These are my selections.
Best All-Around: Kate Hudson
Best Face: Kate Hudson
Best Chest: Jessica Biel
Best Body: Shakira
Best Ass: Jessica Alba
Barely Legal: Hayden Panettiere
Best Over 30: Jenna Fischer
Best Over 40: Heather Locklear
There y’all have it. ” (AK)
The best naturals have to go to Angelina Jolie. Kate Hudson best all-around? I don’t know her chest is a little flat.
February 7th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Sam K… Hope you are right about Balmer being interested in buying the team. It would seem to me they still will need to figure out a new arena deal with some public funding - but there is not word on anything. Hopefully a calm before a major movement & annoucement.
February 7th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
Is anybody watching UCLA vs WSU? UCLA is one of the most impressive Pac-10 teams I have ever seen. And if Kevin Love is not a top 10 pick it will be a travesty. His worst case scenario is Nick Collison. I can’t really imagine his best case scenario because I’ve never seen anyone remotely like him. Slow, unathletic, and flabby…but he’s strong as an ox and has the b-ball IQ of Steve Nash.
February 7th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
“Pretty sure Portland can afford to deal some of their picks seeing as how loaded they are with young talent. Their starting 5 is pretty much set when Oden comes back. If I were Pritchard I’d probably ship off a PG or two; then fill in the bench with some vets that have playoff experience.” {Ajw}
Jarrett Jack and Steve Blake are seemingly favorites of Nate McMillan; thus, Kevin Pritchard is unlikely to trade either one of them at this juncture. Besides, Pritchard’s agenda shouldn’t contain finding an upgrade for Jack and Blake, since garnering someone who can backup Joel Przybilla ought to currently his biggest priority. Again, Radoslav Nesterovic — who’s a hard-nosed one-on-one interior defender who also crashes the glass — could fill that void as a reserve center.
Anyhow, Pritchard’s most tangible asset is Sergio Rodriguez, while the draft rights of three former first-round draft picks (i.e., Joel Freeland, Rudy Fernandez, & Petteri Koponen) also have varying degrees of value.
The Portland Trailblazers have three second-round selections in the 2008 NBA Draft, too, with those coming from the the Memphis Grizzlies, the New York Knicks, and the Phoenix Suns (via the Indiana Pacers). Hilariously, though, the Trailblazers own second-round pick is presently held by the Seattle Supersonics; it was acquired via the Boston Celtics in the trade centered around Ray Allen.
February 7th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
Sam: did you ever see Jeff Ruland play?
February 7th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
Alas, Ruland played before my time.
February 7th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
ajw, of course many women can look quite different (given the context, stylings, mood, angle, etc.) and quite different to different eyes.
I wouldn’t have expected Kate Hudson for AK but maybe an independent streak with her goes into it.
A Portland / Seattle trade has been an unlikely thing for years. I can’t remember the last trade (I know there have players who moved between cities).
I wonder if Pritchard and Presti are wary to deal with each other or if they might help each other sometime and break the wall of silence between these GM offices.
A Blazer fan I respect suggested that Pritchard’s natural target would be Collison but I don’t think Presti gives him up, especially to Portland unless Blazers went over the top to get him.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Some national commentator noted that both Presti and Pritchard have a lot of upcoming draft picks and may face spaces issues and somewhat “need” trades to make space. Who will shuffle and who will stand pat? And who will decide better?
February 7th, 2008 at 11:06 pm
“Slow, unathletic, and flabby.”–Sam K.
Seriously, dude, it sounds like you’re describing Christian Welp instead of Kevin Love. I’ve been watching Love since his high school days, and I’ve seen him grab rebounds off of the glass and throw crisp outlet passes before he hits the ground.
—————————————————————–
I tend to like the older looking hotties myself such as:
Halle Berry
Juliette Binoche
Helen Bonham Carter
February 7th, 2008 at 11:19 pm
James B, maybe you didn’t pick up on my unabashed man-crush on Love. I would wet myself if the Sonics somehow traded up with the Suns pick to get him in the 7-15 range. However, I really don’t think you can dispute his lack of athleticism or his less-than-chiseled physique. The dude can’t jump more than a foot off the floor, yet he routinely dominates mentally inferior opponents. BTW, great call on Helena Bonham Carter - one of the more underrated celebrities.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:21 pm
Not to mention the fact that Love will probably stay in college for at least one more year. He’s from Lake Oswego, after all; it’s not like his family is hurting for cash.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
Spencer Hawes’ family was not hurting for cash. I think Love is having a much better year than Hawes had last year.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
“I wouldn’t have expected Kate Hudson for AK but maybe an independent streak with her goes into it.” {Crow}
I’ve got eclectic tastes.
Regarding Kate Hudson, she combines overall beauty with an apparently vibrant, yet seemingly laid back personality; that gives her the #1 spot on my list of most attractive celebrities.
“A Portland / Seattle trade has been an unlikely thing for years. I can’t remember the last trade (I know there have players who moved between cities).
I wonder if Pritchard and Presti are wary to deal with each other or if they might help each other sometime and break the wall of silence between these GM offices.
A Blazer fan I respect suggested that Pritchard’s natural target would be Collison but I don’t think Presti gives him up, especially to Portland unless Blazers went over the top to get him. {Crow}
As divisional competitors and regional rivals, the Seattle Supersonics and Portland Trailblazers are unlikely to make a trade between organizations based solely on principle. It may seem like a bunch of rubbish to some people; nonetheless, I can understand the purpose behind adversaries avoiding each other for various reasons.
Anyhow, Kevin Pritchard might target Nick Collison; however, Sam Presti shouldn’t part with Collison — who, along with Kevin Durant and Jeff Green, ought to be labeled as untradeable assets — so that’s totally out of the question. At any rate, let’s hope that Collison isn’t on the market.
On the topic of Wally Szczerbiak, Pritchard doesn’t need to acquire a spot-up shooter like him. As it is, the Trailblazers are already stacked at small forward with Martell Webster, James Jones, and Travis Outlaw — who’s currently being played out of position, which hurts the team’s defense and rebounding — while center and shooting guard are the two spots that lack depth.
That, therefore, gives credence to Pritchard conceivably offering Raef LaFrentz — along with the draft rights of Joel Freeland, Rudy Fernandez, and Petteri Koponen — to the Toronto Raptors for Radoslav Nesterovic and Juan Dixon. It’s a trade that’d kill two birds with one stone; Nesterovic is a defensive stalwart down in the paint, while Dixon has proven himself to be an adequate backup for Brandon Roy in the past.
February 7th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
Unlike Hawes, I think Kevin Love actually enjoys the college atmosphere. Hawes seemed moody and depressed last year, whereas Love seems to be having the time of his life. Marques Johnson made several comments today about how happy Love is at UCLA. Don’t get me wrong, I hope he goes pro - but I’d say there’s at least a 50% chance he sticks around for his sophomore year.
February 8th, 2008 at 12:14 am
This draft is looking pretty strong; though it’s loaded mostly with talented guards. When I look at the top 10 teams that will be picking in the draft, I don’t really see where Kevin Love would fit except possibly Philly.
- Miami: I’m thinking they’d select Beasley if they are going PF.
- Minny: They already have a stud PF in Jefferson. I’d go with a scoring guard…probably Eric Gordon, then they can slide Brewer to SF.
- Seattle: Derrick Rose!
- Memphis: Now this might be the team that could use him, but I think Love would be a reach to be a top 5 pick.
- LAClippers: With Elton Brand still donning a Clipper uniform, there won’t be any minutes for Love as it would just be the same situation when Wilcox was there.
- Charlotte: Don’t they still have Sean May? Anyways, with Okafor being a RFA, they might want some insurance and could get a center.
- Milwaukee: They’re set at PF with Yi and Villanueva.
- Philly: This could be a good fit; if he doesn’t go 9, he’s out of the top 10.
- Chicago: Thomas by then, will be ready for big minutes. Plus Ben Wallace isn’t getting any younger. They’ll need a guy who can play both PF and C.
Assuming Love declares for this year’s draft, if he doesn’t go to Philly he’s pretty much out of the top 10.
February 8th, 2008 at 12:19 am
My draft board for the Soncs:
1. Derrick Rose
2. Michael Beasley
3. Eric Gordon
4. Jerryd Bayless
5. OJ Mayo
6. Chase Budinger
7. Blake Griffin
8. Brook Lopez
9. DeAndre Jordan
10. Darren Collison - would be a reach to be top 5, but I love this kid’s speed and lockdown perimeter defense. His jumpshot looks pretty funky though. Hope he drops down in the 20’s for us.
February 8th, 2008 at 12:23 am
I agree that he probably won’t go top 10. The NBA still hasn’t quite woken up and stopped drafting international players and raw athletes with “Tremendous Upside Potential.” The fact that Thabeet and Batum are likely going to be drafted before Love is further proof that most Sonicscentral readers are better qualified to be NBA GM’s than the buffoons who currently hold those positions.
February 8th, 2008 at 12:34 am
“Anyhow, Kevin Pritchard might target Nick Collison; however, Sam Presti shouldn’t part with Collison — who, along with Kevin Durant and Jeff Green, ought to be labeled as untradeable assets — so that’s totally out of the question. At any rate, let’s hope that Collison isn’t on the market.”
Whoa! And I thought I was the only crazy guy who labeled Nick Collison as untradeable.
I was always under the impression you preferred Wilcox over Collison.
February 8th, 2008 at 12:48 am
Collison as an untradeable asset? That’s crazy. It’s not hard to replace a player such as Nick Collison. Anderson Varajeo, Jason Maxiel, Paul Milsap, and David Lee are all players that provide just as much for their teams, if not more, than the amount Nick provides this team. These four players are evidence that it is possible to find a Nick Collison every year in the draft, even in the late first round or second round.
Not only should the Sonics not have used a lottery pick in the deepest draft this decade on a Nick Collison type-player, but they sure shouldn’t have signed him a Nick Collison type-player to an absurd five-year deal. You can keep on recycling various permutations of Nick Collison every three years.
February 8th, 2008 at 12:53 am
All right, here’s my list of ten potential deadline deals.
1. http://tinyurl.com/3xbqdm
The Denver Nuggets get a legitimate starting point guard, while the Los Angeles Clippers save some money and get a bit of cash.
2. http://tinyurl.com/2w2jso
The Detroit Pistons get a veteran reserve at point guard, while the Chicago Bulls get a young, up-’n'-coming combo guard.
3. http://tinyurl.com/3xb6ov
The Utah Jazz get a center who can rebound and defend in the paint, while the Indiana Pacers get a sharp-shooting prospect.
4. http://tinyurl.com/2y3xbq
The Orlando Magic greatly improve its backcourt, while the Memphis Grizzlies and Philadelphia 76ers continue the rebuilding process.
5. http://tinyurl.com/2muaya
The Los Angeles Lakers solidify itself by acquiring a prototypical point forward for the triangle offense, while the New Jersey Nets start dismantling its roster.
6. http://tinyurl.com/35992f
The Dallas Mavericks make a drastic move that’ll make or break the team, while the New Jersey Nets continue with further changes.
7. http://tinyurl.com/3dwgdu
The Portland Trailblazers enhance its depth at center and shooting guard, while the Toronto Raptors get a guy who fits its spread offense and some prospects.
8. http://tinyurl.com/3e34pq
The Cleveland Cavaliers get a compatible teammate for LeBron James and Daniel Gibson, while the Minnesota Timberwolves clear future cap space.
9. http://tinyurl.com/2tskm6
The New York Knicks finally get the league’s biggest headcase, while the Sacramento Kings dump one of the league’s worst contracts.
10. http://tinyurl.com/37dxvl
The Golden State Warriors get an offensively versatile backup at power forward, the Houston Rockets get a burly backup at center, and the Milwaukee Bucks acquire a top-notch prospect.
That’s it.
February 8th, 2008 at 1:06 am
“I was always under the impression you preferred Wilcox over Collison.” {Ajw}
No, I’ve defended Nick Collison’s worth for like two years here. In fact, Menace used to joke that I had a shrine of Collison. Sans Scott, I’m the staunchest supporter of Collison around here. Regarding Chris Wilcox, I’ve had issues with him in the past. Wilcox is still far from my favorite player, but I’ve come to grips with his shortcomings. In the end, though, Wilcox must be replaced with a pivotman who can carry the load on both ends of the court.
February 8th, 2008 at 1:16 am
Alex Chan Says:
Collison as an untradeable asset? That’s crazy. It’s not hard to replace a player such as Nick Collison.
I agree. I like Nick a lot but he’s probably one of the most tradeable assets we have. His skill package would make a great compliment on many a contender. The Sonics are many years away from that status and therefore should look into packaging their most tradeable asset for a player that is/or may someday be a stud. It’s too early in the rebuilding game to worry about labeling role players as untradeable assets. Besides, he’s one of the few large contracts beyond 2009 that could be moved to get farther under the cap for that summer.
Ajw Says:
I was always under the impression you preferred Wilcox over Collison.
LOL. You oughtta know AK better than that.
AK1984 Says:
Regarding Kate Hudson, she combines overall beauty with an apparently vibrant, yet seemingly laid back personality; that gives her the #1 spot on my list of most attractive celebrities.
Hmm, she’s cute and all but I don’t really go for that cutesy routine. I also question some of her career choices… please, no more movies with Matthew McConaughey! Almost Famous was a great movie though but not due to her acting. She’s got the cute look down though, I’ll give her that.
No love for Scarlett Johansson? Imo, she’s got the combo of looks, bod, lips, allure, sophistication and youth to send an old fart like myself over the edge. Hubba!
February 8th, 2008 at 1:35 am
2008 NBA Mock Draft!
1. Miami Heat: PF Michael Beasley
2. Minnesota Timberwolves: PG O.J. Mayo
3. Seattle Supersonics: PG Derrick Rose
4. Memphis Grizzlies: C DeAndre Jordan
5. New York Knicks: SG Eric Gordon
6. Los Angeles Clippers: PG Jerryd Bayless
7. Charlotte Bobcats: C Brook Lopez
8. Milwaukee Bucks: SF Donte Greene
9. Philadelphia 76ers: PF Kevin Love
10. Indiana Pacers: C Roy Hibbert
February 8th, 2008 at 6:25 am
Someone posted an article on another site last summer that stated that Nate, and Dwayne Casey BOTH wanted Barbosa. I think it’s assumed that bcuz of Gaines size, and style of game that he would be someone Nate wanted, but after reading that article that doesn’t seem to be the case(that Gaines would have been his choice). It’s Barbosa that I actually read that he wanted(after actually working him out), and he supposedly told that to Barbosa after the workout if I remember that article correctly. Whether or not LB’s a true pg, or not really doesn’t matter that much imo, bcuz he’s an impact player regardless who in retrospect would have been a good pick…
February 8th, 2008 at 6:54 am
“No love for Scarlett Johansson? Imo, she’s got the combo of looks, bod, lips, allure, sophistication and youth to send an old fart like myself over the edge. Hubba!”
Agreed completely.
I’ve also always had a thing for Natalie Portman also.
February 8th, 2008 at 8:52 am
“2008 NBA Mock Draft!
1. Miami Heat: PF Michael Beasley
2. Minnesota Timberwolves: PG O.J. Mayo
3. Seattle Supersonics: PG Derrick Rose
4. Memphis Grizzlies: C DeAndre Jordan
5. New York Knicks: SG Eric Gordon
6. Los Angeles Clippers: PG Jerryd Bayless
7. Charlotte Bobcats: C Brook Lopez
8. Milwaukee Bucks: SF Donte Greene
9. Philadelphia 76ers: PF Kevin Love
10. Indiana Pacers: C Roy Hibbert ”
Solid mock, AK, but i don’t Minny would do that and i don’t see Love making the top 10.
The Wolves already have a combo guard in Randy Foye and surely would take Derrick Rose over Mayo.
I also don’t think that Kevin Love will be a top 10 pick, if he decides to come out this year. He’s got a really good skill set, but he’s just not athletic enough to go into the top 10, cause most teams rather take a shot on athletic freaks, then fundamentally sound players, as long as that guy isn’t 7′feet.
BTW: I really like Love and his passing, but i’d tell him to take a real good look at what Carlos Boozer did, after he got to the NBA. Just like Boozer, Love has to adjust to another position(from center to power forward) and needs to shed some weight so he can keep up with those other pf’s of this league.
February 8th, 2008 at 10:18 am
AK you forgot to throw in a few foreign prospects that will inevitably get picked higher than they deserve. Nic Batum and Gallinari come to mind.
February 8th, 2008 at 10:24 am
Scott Says:
February 8th, 2008 at 6:54 am
““No love for Scarlett Johansson? Imo, she’s got the combo of looks, bod, lips, allure, sophistication and youth to send an old fart like myself over the edge. Hubba!”
Agreed completely.
I’ve also always had a thing for Natalie Portman also.”
Then you and Dick would LOVE the movie, “The Other Boleyn Girl” as both are in the movie and look pretty erotic in it.
February 8th, 2008 at 10:27 am
10 trades… always interesting to see AK even if I probably won’t analyze and argue them as much as in the past.
I “get” Scarlet Johansson even though she probably wouldn’t be a 1st round draft pick of mine given the talent pool. Ah to have a 15 woman team and rotation. Silly talk.
So many beauties, hard to settle on top choices.
Some worthies: Sophie Marceau, Ali Landry, Vanessa Minilllo, Katie Holmes, Ashley Judd, many asian and latina beauties, Jeanette Rundgren, Kitana, Eliza Dushku, Cheyenne, Catherine Zeta Jones and on and on…
February 8th, 2008 at 10:27 am
“I also don’t think that Kevin Love will be a top 10 pick, if he decides to come out this year. He’s got a really good skill set, but he’s just not athletic enough to go into the top 10, cause most teams rather take a shot on athletic freaks, then fundamentally sound players, as long as that guy isn’t 7′feet. ”
Yeah as I said above, a couple of foreign prospects will jump into the top 10, and guys like Love and Hibbert (the lower ceiling guys) will get pushed down.
What’s the deal with Chase Budinger? I haven’t seen him on any mock drafts. Same goes for Blake Griffin who has a polished offensive skill set already.
February 8th, 2008 at 10:29 am
One more undervalued asset: Teresa Hill.
February 8th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Naomi Watts.
February 8th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Johansson’s voice is somewhat annoying though.
February 8th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Seriously, dude, it sounds like you’re describing Christian Welp instead of Kevin Love. I’ve been watching Love since his high school days, and I’ve seen him grab rebounds off of the glass and throw crisp outlet passes before he hits the ground.
- I swear that Kevin Love’s famed ability to “throw the outlet pass” ranks right up there with the “most feared hitter in baseball” argument people use for Jim Rice in the battle for the biggest “pointless reach” argument of all time. It’ll be a sad day if the Sonics draft him…
- As for the other topic…I have to admit that it is these types of arguments that truly give this site the personality that most other blogs lack. That being said…I throw my hat in the ring for Sienna Miller…I’ve got a thing for tiny blonde girls (what are you gonna do?). Rachel Bilson (although not blonde) is high on the list as well…
February 8th, 2008 at 10:52 am
“What’s the deal with Chase Budinger? I haven’t seen him on any mock drafts. Same goes for Blake Griffin who has a polished offensive skill set already.”
It looks like Budinger is staying for another year at Arizona, cause there are lots of guys at his position in this years draft and he might end up somewhere between 10 - 20.
Blake Griffin is injured right now and many believe that he’ll stay at least another year.
February 8th, 2008 at 11:09 am
“2008 NBA Mock Draft!
1. Miami Heat: PF Michael Beasley
2. Minnesota Timberwolves: PG O.J. Mayo
3. Seattle Supersonics: PG Derrick Rose
4. Memphis Grizzlies: C DeAndre Jordan
5. New York Knicks: SG Eric Gordon
6. Los Angeles Clippers: PG Jerryd Bayless
7. Charlotte Bobcats: C Brook Lopez
8. Milwaukee Bucks: SF Donte Greene
9. Philadelphia 76ers: PF Kevin Love
10. Indiana Pacers: C Roy Hibbert”
For the most part I agree. I think, however, with the philosophy of Sam Presti, coupled with the fact that the Timberkittens already have Al Jefferson, they would want to go with Mayo or Rose. Now having said that, Beasley is a versatile guy…and actually could compliment Jefferson quite well. But this also the Minnesota front office, which in my opinion was equally as bad as Walker and Sund.
I just don’t think, that the learning curve that will be necessary for a young point guard will be benefitial to the progress of this team. In my opinion it is the most difficult position on the court with the X’s and O’s…but you also have to be a leader and command respect. Just don’t see Mayo or Rose giving that much for at least 2 or 3 years….Tony Parker and Deron Williams being the exception. I would rather add another long threat to Green and Durant, create huge mismatches every night, and pursue a seasoned PG via-free agency. Just my two sense. I will say this though….this team will not progress with PJ at the helm. He is a serious detriment to any rook that laces em’ up for the Supes. Just my two sense….Late.
February 8th, 2008 at 11:19 am
AK I’ll trade you the draft rights for 3 tiny blondes for 2 tall brunettes
February 8th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Some worthies: Sophie Marceau, Ali Landry, Vanessa Minilllo, Katie Holmes, Ashley Judd, many asian and latina beauties, Jeanette Rundgren, Kitana, Eliza Dushku, Cheyenne, Catherine Zeta Jones and on and on…
- I was a big Katie Holmes fan as well until Tom Cruise sold her soul and turned her into a robot…
February 8th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
My bad read… make that offer to Myk …
February 8th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Joshu@ Says:
I just don’t think, that the learning curve that will be necessary for a young point guard will be benefitial to the progress of this team. In my opinion it is the most difficult position on the court with the X’s and O’s…but you also have to be a leader and command respect. Just don’t see Mayo or Rose giving that much for at least 2 or 3 years….
What’s the hurry. It’s going to take that long for the team to make the playoffs regardless. Presti want a team that can grow/age together with Durant. I think the point is THE key position that Presti’d want maturing with his star scorer.
February 8th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
10. Darren Collison - would be a reach to be top 5, but I love this kid’s speed and lockdown perimeter defense. His jumpshot looks pretty funky though. Hope he drops down in the 20’s for us.
- I dont think that we have to worry about Collison dropping to 20 considering he isn’t going to be a very good NBA player…
February 8th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
My bad read… make that offer to Myk …
- Sounds like a deal…perfect wingman…don’t have to worry about fighting over which girl to to talk to
February 8th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Yeah Myk but I assume she will eventually snap out of it.
Rebounds, assists, training camp, and1s, 10 day contracts, dunks, 3 pt plays, alley-oops, clutch shooting… pardon the dirty talk (attempt at humor)
February 8th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
I’d take that divison / wingman role Myk… but not that I don’t like tiny blondes too. Lots of beauty to make the world go round.
February 8th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Back to basketball I’ll briefly mention that I saw a sort of league’s most and least efficent scorers by FGAs and Durant was last among those taking 15+ shots, Wilkins after a very good start is now last among “4th option” level players. Jason Kidd was worst among 3rd option level (9-12 shots a game).
February 8th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
By the way what about the tiny brunettes and the tall blondes? I guess they’d be free agents to compete over.
February 8th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
By the way what about the tiny brunettes and the tall blondes? I guess they’d be free agents to compete over
- You always need a fall back position…you can have the tall blondes I’ll take the tiny brunettes (AKA Rachel Bilson)…
February 8th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Ok. I luv the legs and all
February 8th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
“- I dont think that we have to worry about Collison dropping to 20 considering he isn’t going to be a very good NBA player… ”
Why not? I think he’ll be a really good backup PG in the league. He reminds me of Lindsey Hunter or Greg Anthony.
February 8th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
Guys, i am not a sonics fan and have a question…….
What is Chris Wilcox’s game like? His numbers seem very impressive in only 26 minutes per game (14.5 and 7.2 a night), and his body is definitely a well developed athletic NBA power forward at 6′10 and 240…….
So what is his game like? Back to the basket, lowpost game? How is he in that department, how does he score? Is he more like an Amare or like a Duncan? (Poor mans version of either one obviously), is he more like an Elton Brand? A Gasol, finesse type of post player? A Lamarcus Aldridge?
Just very very curious.
February 8th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Chris Wilcox is a poor man’s Amare Stoudemire.
February 21st, 2008 at 7:20 pm
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