2/21/08 Box Score: Sonics 88 Trailblazers 92
Posted on Thursday, February 21st, 2008 at 11:40 pm by Big Chris
The last three possessions of the first half were three of the worst I’ve seen, with the cherry on the top of the turd pile being Watson dribbling the ball for 7 seconds and then trying to rifle a pass to Wilcox as time expired rather than getting a quality shot or taking it to the rim to possibly draw a foul. If I was PJ you might have had to keep me from choking someone at halftime.
Credit to the Sonics for playing hard tonight after all that has gone on. Somewhat short handed and yet the team gave a solid effort.
Kevin Durant led the Sonics in scoring with 20 points. Earl Watson had 15 points 9 assists and 8 rebounds. Nick Collison added 13 points and 14 rebounds. Jeff Green 13 points and 9 rebounds.
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| Seattle | |||||||||||||||
| Starters | Min | FG | 3Pt | FT | +/- | Off | Reb | Ast | TO | Stl | BS | BA | PF | Pts | |
| G | 37:11 | 6-15 | 2-2 | 6-8 | -2 | 2 | 6 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 3 | 20 | |
| E. Watson | G | 33:58 | 7-13 | 1-1 | 0-1 | +12 | 0 | 8 | 9 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 3 | 15 |
| J. Petro | C | 23:11 | 3-7 | 0-0 | 2-2 | -3 | 0 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 8 |
| J. Green | F | 37:45 | 5-10 | 0-1 | 3-7 | -1 | 3 | 9 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 13 |
| C. Wilcox | F | 13:35 | 0-5 | 0-0 | 2-4 | -2 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 2 |
| Bench | Min | FG | 3Pt | FT | +/- | Off | Reb | Ast | TO | Stl | BS | BA | PF | Pts | |
| N. Collison | 36:46 | 4-11 | 0-0 | 5-6 | -1 | 6 | 14 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 5 | 13 | |
| D. Wilkins | 24:28 | 3-11 | 0-4 | 1-1 | -1 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 3 | 7 | |
| L. Ridnour | 17:59 | 3-4 | 3-4 | 1-2 | -15 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 10 | |
| M. Gelabale | 11:05 | 0-3 | 0-1 | 0-0 | -8 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 0 | |
| R. Swift | 4:01 | 0-1 | 0-0 | 0-0 | +1 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | |
| F. Elson | DNP - Coach’s Decision | ||||||||||||||
| Totals | 31-80 | 6-13 | 20-31 | 13 | 51 | 19 | 15 | 2 | 3 | 11 | 28 | 88 | |||
| Percentages: | .388 | .462 | .645 | Team Rebounds: 11 |
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| Portland | |||||||||||||||
| Starters | Min | FG | 3Pt | FT | +/- | Off | Reb | Ast | TO | Stl | BS | BA | PF | Pts | |
| J. Jack | G | 36:35 | 4-10 | 2-4 | 5-6 | +10 | 1 | 2 | 6 | 1 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 15 |
| S. Blake | G | 35:29 | 2-7 | 2-5 | 0-0 | +2 | 0 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 4 | 6 |
| J. Przybilla | C | 31:01 | 2-2 | 0-0 | 1-4 | -2 | 3 | 11 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 4 | 0 | 5 | 5 |
| B. Roy | F | 37:59 | 7-17 | 1-3 | 4-9 | +2 | 2 | 14 | 5 | 1 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 2 | 19 |
| L. Aldridge | F | 34:47 | 6-16 | 0-0 | 6-8 | +1 | 3 | 12 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 5 | 1 | 2 | 18 |
| Bench | Min | FG | 3Pt | FT | +/- | Off | Reb | Ast | TO | Stl | BS | BA | PF | Pts | |
| T. Outlaw | 26:44 | 6-16 | 1-3 | 6-6 | +8 | 1 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 3 | 19 | |
| M. Webster | 26:08 | 1-6 | 1-4 | 4-5 | -4 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 7 | |
| S. Rodriguez | 7:49 | 1-2 | 0-0 | 1-1 | +2 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 3 | |
| C. Frye | 1:44 | 0-0 | 0-0 | 0-0 | -3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 | 0 | |
| R. LaFrentz | 1:43 | 0-0 | 0-0 | 0-0 | +4 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | |
| T. Green | DNP - Coach’s Decision | ||||||||||||||
| J. McRoberts | DNP - Coach’s Decision | ||||||||||||||
| Totals | 29-76 | 7-19 | 27-39 | 10 | 49 | 20 | 8 | 10 | 11 | 3 | 20 | 92 | |||
| Percentages: | .382 | .368 | .692 | Team Rebounds: 8 |
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| Game Info | |
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Technical Fouls: None |
Arena: Rose Garden, Portland, OR
Attendance: 20,168 |
Legend
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February 21st, 2008 at 11:47 pm
Wow, look at the +/- for the Sonics. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it where one player has a blow-out + while all of his teammates are getting beat (look at Ridnour’s, ouch!).
February 21st, 2008 at 11:49 pm
Recall Sene?
February 21st, 2008 at 11:49 pm
What was with Weezy tonight?
February 21st, 2008 at 11:50 pm
Jack palms the ball a lot
February 21st, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Lester come on now. I agree Watson did well tonight but the only other positive is Swift? That’s totally ridiculous.
February 21st, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Wilcox was depressed by the fact that he’s going to have to play defense now that Thomas is gone.
February 21st, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Mark, that’s what I’m saying. How is possible that one player with big minutes could have such a high plus while all of the other folks who played big minutes had negatives? I’ve never seen it before. It’s an anomaly.
February 21st, 2008 at 11:56 pm
And look, Watson almost had a triple double again tonight. What a run of games for him. That’s something to celebrate, folks. So CELEBRATE THE GREAT PLAY OF ONE SONIC. Yeesh.
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:14 am
Sigh.
It can only get better right? I love the Sonics. I hope times will be better. It can’t get any worse.
Nice game JG. Nice game EW.
Its step up time………who’s it going to be?
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:19 am
What’ll be Luke Ridnour’s trade value after this season?
At some point during the summer, I expect that Ridnour will be dealt elsewhere (e.g., Cleveland Cavaliers, New York Knicks, et cetera) for an over-the-hill, washed-up has-been whose contract expires after next season (e.g., Eric Snow, Malik Rose, et cetera). In that event, Sam Presti could tank another season and look toward the 2009 NBA Draft.
Indeed, it’s time for Ridnour fans to admit defeat.
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:37 am
Earl getting me some big stats for my fantasy team. Maybe his scoring will go up.
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:39 am
Orlando probably wishes they didn’t waste their disabled player exception to acquire Maurice Evans and Brian Cook…they could have used part of that exception to claim Bones off waivers and they still would not have been subject to the luxury tax.
Hopefully Bones will be able to attract enough interest from other teams so that San Antonio will be forced to use their mid-level exception to resign him; that’ll raise the amount of luxury tax payments that the Spurs will owe the league at the end of the season.
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:53 am
poop
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:06 am
AK said:
“At some point during the summer, I expect that Ridnour will be dealt elsewhere (e.g., Cavaliers, Knicks, et cetera) for an over-the-hill, washed-up has-been whose contract expires after next season (e.g., Eric Snow, Malik Rose, et cetera).”
God, we can only hope. Actually, I agree with you on this AK. After the obvious priority of preparing for the draft, dumping Ridnour should be the next big item on Presti’s agenda…just ahead of trading Wilcox.
And I’m man enough to admit I was completely, totally, wrong about Luke making a case for himself this year. He’s a career backup and I’m done with him. As bad as Watson can be, he’s still a better, more consistent player than Ridnour.
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:21 am
Swift sprained his right knee, let’s cross our fingers
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:45 am
I don’t mess with fantasy basketball (I’m already addicted to the smooth heroin high of real basketball so why add the crack rush of fantasy?) but I just looked on ESPN’s fantasy league to see that fantasy owners signed up Earl like crazy this week (up 41.9% to 76.7%). Earl is a hot stock!
February 22nd, 2008 at 4:17 am
I cant ever remember the sonics having a roster of nobody’s as the current one. Rebuilding or not, i think this could be used to prove that new ownership is actively trying to keep interest in the sonics as low as possible while they’re still in seattle.
I think after losing Wally and Thomas we are by far the worst team in the league. The heat and wolves could simply burn us now…
No amount of cap flexibility or draft picks can justify this imo
February 22nd, 2008 at 5:03 am
Situation is very bad right now…You cant expect more at this moment guys…This team need time,they need to get some players from this trade….Dont worry they will win like 10 more games this season but now they need to see their new players…Sonics will be so good for 2 years….
February 22nd, 2008 at 5:12 am
The team is obviously boring to fans but that is mainly due to the poor record. Any real rebuilding effort would be like this and I don’t understand the reactions to it from here. None of this should be a surprise to anyone. It’s been clear from the beginning that this is the way things were going to be. This team is in rebuilding mode. Why are people shocked or disappointed by this process. The players last night at least gave a great effort and played better defense than any Ray Allen/Rashard Lewis team ever did. The premise of rebuilding this team and constructing it with defensive minded players is the stuff of excellence. The organization is on the right track.
February 22nd, 2008 at 8:17 am
http://www.majorleaguedowntown.com/TheStory.aspx - Tampa Bay Rays and a developer are in the initial stages of planning a $1 BILLION dollar redevelopment of St Petersburg including a new ballpark for the Rays. Specific financing is still in discussion but the initial plan is to have the public pay ZERO dollars. Pretty interesting though.
February 22nd, 2008 at 8:34 am
So now that Robert Swift is out after spraining his knee does it mean that trading Kurt Thomas has opened up playing time for Sene or do they go with Fransisco Elson?
Robert Swifts days with the Sonics should be finished after this season. I do feel for him because he has never got on track since the day he was drafted and it isn’t his fault he tore his ACL, but there is no way Presti should waste money on keeping him after his contract is up after the season. What has it been now, three years of nothing?
We may never get an anser to PJ Carlisimo’s question, “who is the real Robert Swift”?
February 22nd, 2008 at 9:09 am
Why waive Brent Barry? I know he’s injured at the moment. And I know we needed to get rid of somebody, but why Bones? There is plenty of dead weight (and now some new, fresh dead weight) on this team that I would have rather see leave. His lockerroom presence would have been invaluable. He is a good natured guy, he brings leadership to the court, we could have played some point (not sure how long Earl will be in his Dr. Jekyl state) and basically contributed something to this team. Just waving him is foolish and really sets up the remaining pieces on this team to fail. I know that most everyone here regarded it as a foregone conclusion, but honestly I’d rather have brent entertaining me than crossing my fingers that one of these guys turns the corner:
Griffin: 2.3PPG, 1.70RPG, 1.0APG
Newble: 4.3PPG, 2.80RPG, 0.3APG
Elson: 3.5PPG, 3.30RPG, 0.4APG
Not sure any of these guys even beat out the backups to our backups that we already have playing. Sigh, wish they woulda kept brent at least to round out the year.
February 22nd, 2008 at 9:28 am
I agree dave..bones will bring a leadership to this team that lost kurt and wally. his contract is up at the end of the year anyway so why not keep him for the rest of the year. It would be fun to see bones back wit the supes again
February 22nd, 2008 at 9:38 am
I can’t believe I have to watch Damien Wilkins playing during crunch time. I can’t believe he’s still on the team. I can’t believe how not even close all of his 4 3-pointers were.
February 22nd, 2008 at 9:40 am
HEY… I just realized something…
The Houston Rockets trade with Minnesota… I believe, correct me if I’m wrong, that they will now be sending us the 2nd round pick that they received from Minnesota for our trading Carl Landry to them last year. That means we will get two of the top 5 2nd round picks this summer…
Am I wrong????
Great News!!
February 22nd, 2008 at 9:41 am
“Dont worry they will win like 10 more games this season but now they need to see their new player” Quote by Wally World
We’ve only got 29 more games to go and most of them are against western conference teams in playoff contention. There’s also a 7 game road trip coming, to start the month of march.
So winning 5 more games would be great, for a team that most likely needs durant to score 30+ to win a game, but 10 more are way more then this team is capable of.
BTW: I’m not really a fan of that 3 team trade, but i don’t think that Presti thought about lessining fan interest or losing even more, while doing this one. It’s a rebuilding move that gives him some more financial flexibility going forward, while we even still have expiring contracts in Wilcox and Marshall.
So let’s get it on, as the Ira Newble era has started…:lol:
February 22nd, 2008 at 9:42 am
ooooor… am I retarded.. was it not this year’s pick, but next year’s?
February 22nd, 2008 at 9:46 am
ok.. i may be retarded.. i think houston gave away the pick in the trade… now I’m confused… can anyone smarter than I am check into this one… it may be worth it..
February 22nd, 2008 at 9:48 am
I think we now automatically get New Orleans’ 2nd rounder (given to Houston) for the Landry trade… that will be one of the worst in the 2nd round, not one of the best I thought we landed out of Minnesota… hmmm…
February 22nd, 2008 at 10:05 am
time to get back sene, probably last chance for him too (as rid and swift)
February 22nd, 2008 at 10:06 am
John_S thanks for the link. The St Petersburg development is interesting and does show there are several ways things can pencil out and get done. “Specific financing is still in discussion but the initial plan is to have the public pay ZERO dollars.” I would typically look around to double check what is going on- whether the developer is asking for significant upzoning (creating a lot of new value) and /or infrastructure improvements and they still could ask for money later in the game various ways (maintenance, future upgrades, etc.) But it is baseball and far away and there are basketball examples of little or no public money so I don’t really need to do extra, deeper research. But if you hear more details I’d be willing to listen.
February 22nd, 2008 at 10:25 am
Stray thoughts from reading other threads but put here because this is freashest one:
I think Elson probably will get priced at around $2-2.5 million a year this summer. Maybe some team offers 2 years. Will Sonics make best offer? I think it depends on whether Presti was the big backer of signing Elson to Spurs 3 years ago. If he was and he might be then he might have wanted him here as more than expiring contract.
If Elson stays maybe he become the big brother pro to lead Petro, Sene and Gelabale? Does Presti want to continue the French development longer term or not? Make a choice. Make the right one.
I feel bad for Swift I am in wait and see whether he will be fit enough to be worth a new contract.
Wally gone should increase shots / PER opportunity for Green. And perhaps make Presti’s big decision pick look better.
Wilkins trade value isn’t much and there is more chance he could be used as balast in a larger deal (like Griffin and Newble) than as a main part and unless Presti is ready to add a larger poiece it might have to be as a 3rd team in another Presti facilitiation trade. Same for Ridnour.
February 22nd, 2008 at 10:43 am
“I think Elson probably will get priced at around $2-2.5 million a year this summer. Maybe some team offers 2 years. Will Sonics make best offer?”
Here’s a question for the group, would you rather have Elson at $2-2.5 next year or Robert Swift on a nearly $4 mil QO?
February 22nd, 2008 at 10:55 am
Here’s a question for the group, would you rather have Elson at $2-2.5 next year or Robert Swift on a nearly $4 mil QO?
That’s a very interesting question. I’ll have to watch Elson play some here the rest of the season, but unfortunately for Swift, if he can’t stay healthy I don’t think it makes sense for the Sonics to offer him the QO.
Definately will be one of many decisions the Sonics will have to make this offseason.
February 22nd, 2008 at 11:04 am
Because I’m just thinking that if they’re going to pay a guy to sit at the end of the bench and maybe play 20 or 30 games Elson comes much cheaper. Robert’s QO isn’t that big of a deal for an NBA contract, but if he can’t play it’s a sunken cost.
February 22nd, 2008 at 11:11 am
I think Swift may be worth holding onto.
Difficult not having a crystal ball but, Look at Marcus Camby, he had injuries and stuff early on but look at him now.
Tough call.
February 22nd, 2008 at 11:12 am
man, Watson is turning it on. Guess I have to wait a few more games to rip him…hehehehe.
February 22nd, 2008 at 11:15 am
“I think Swift may be worth holding onto.
Difficult not having a crystal ball but, Look at Marcus Camby, he had injuries and stuff early on but look at him now.
Tough call. ”
True but Camby even at the same age was a far more accomplished player.
February 22nd, 2008 at 11:28 am
Camby was on a much more talented Knicks team though.
February 22nd, 2008 at 11:28 am
Does Presti move Wilcox this summer? I think there is good chance. Go young, tank, save money, build culture… If he does and Collison moves full time to PF maybe you keep Swift and Elson.
February 22nd, 2008 at 11:43 am
The situation with Swift might be a good barometer on whether this management really is about saving cash now or if they intend to compete. I think if they intend to compete they should hold onto Swift because he has the kind of size that is difficult to obtain. He also has some skill it is just a matter of staying healthy.
February 22nd, 2008 at 11:52 am
“The situation with Swift might be a good barometer on whether this management really is about saving cash now or if they intend to compete. I think if they intend to compete they should hold onto Swift because he has the kind of size that is difficult to obtain. He also has some skill it is just a matter of staying healthy.”
I disagree. Swift hasn’t proven to be much of a player at all. I admit that he hasn’t had a good chance to do so, but I would never invest 4 mil into a nobody that can’t stay on the floor for ten minutes. If they do give him the QO, then they must’ve seen something outstanding in practice. If they don’t, then I’ll be happy that we’re not investing money in damaged goods.
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Crow-
“Go young, tank, save money, build culture…”
ENOUGH!!! there is no “culture” to speak of. It was a cute buzz word that the oklahomans used to say “we are gutting the team, taking away any possible fan favorites and plan to have a playoff team just in time for 2011.” I think the sonics will stay here, but honestly this whole crap about culture and how amazing Presti is has finally gotten to me. I was stoked with what he pulled off at the beginning, but having an idiot for a coach, keeping wilkins and watson (yes watson is on the rise, so definitely time to unload him) and adding a bunch of potential and cap space is exactly what bennett wants. I feel completely alienated from the team I thought I knew and was starting to enjoy. Bringing back brent was cool… oh wait nevermind he’ll jsut end up somewhere else. Giving up our two veterans was cool… till I realized that what we got in return is a team that could quite possibly win the draft lottery balls in two upcoming years. Its just a word, there is no culture that presti is making right now except for a depressing one. I’m going to the game tonight just to SPITE these moves and support my boys. Also this could be the last game I go to depending on how/if the real fan community (us) decides to boycott. Culture is not something that gets you a championship, a championship makes it SEEM like some higher culture (divine intervention) is how the team got there. completely made up and just words at a press conference people.
/end rant
Go supes, time for green to bust out tonight and sonics to take this home win.
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:05 pm
I don’t know about culture, but this team has definitely gotten more defensive-minded. The 4th quarter of the Blazer game is a testament to that. I think that’s a step in the right direction as far as establishing the culture that Presti has emphasized so often.
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:06 pm
The Supes should recall Sene just because it is fun to listen to the other teams announcers try and pronounce his name throughout the game.
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Does Presti move Wilcox this summer? I think there is good chance. Go young, tank, save money, build culture… If he does and Collison moves full time to PF maybe you keep Swift and Elson.
I agree Crow. I think Presti looks to move Wilcox this summer and I’d go so far as to say he looks for a deal where he can package Wilcox and Luke together. Maybe send them to a team in need of a PG and PF who has a middle first round pick that we could get back and a SG.
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:13 pm
What a bunch of babies! Keep Wally and the other aging vets and what do you get — an extra few victories? Whoop-de-damn-do. Also, the idea that a vet who comes in halfway through a season will provide “leadership” and “mentor” the younger players is a fairy tale. I say — tear this club to shreds. It wasn’t exactly a dynasty last year.
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Crow said:
“Wally gone should increase shots / PER opportunity for Green.”
I read both Hollinger’s grades of the Cavs-Bulls-Sonics deal and Myk’s, and I got to agree more with Myk, that I don’t see the point of this trade from the Cavs perspective.
Hollinger argues that every outgoing player on the Cavs has a lower PER than a corresponding incoming player (and thus awards the Cavs and “A” for the deal).
Here is my question? Does the fact that LBJ is tops in the league in PER have a negative effect on this stat for his teammates. In other words, when LBJ grabs a rebound, that is one less board that Gooden gets.
My guess is that after the trade, the new Cavs will see their PERs drop, but the old Cavs will see their PERs rise.
Or am I failing to see something?
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:26 pm
your failing to see the concept..but i understand your point of view. LBJ gets alot of rebounds out of the SF spot but its not like he is averaging double digits…
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:40 pm
random:
the swift vs elson question will be answered by swift through the end of the year
What comes back for Wilcox? Pesti did pretty well sign and trade with lewis, maybe they stick it out till then?
Collison to fulltime PF with Petro as backup until he is drafted out of playing time?
Does Wilcox and pick(s) get us moved way up from that crummy Suns pick?
The PER might not change for the cavs, wally catching and shooting opens the floor for others to drive through?
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:40 pm
“I agree Crow. I think Presti looks to move Wilcox this summer and I’d go so far as to say he looks for a deal where he can package Wilcox and Luke together. Maybe send them to a team in need of a PG and PF who has a middle first round pick that we could get back and a SG. ”
I agree re: Wilcox as well. Perhaps a draft day trade where they package some combo of Wilcox, Luke, and the Suns pick. I was trying to see if a deal with NJ would make sense or work under the cap … doesn’t seem to.
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Shut up about the PER….will you all please stop talking about the PER. Let me ask you a question…how many of you have coached? I’ve coached, and am still a coach. How many of are really just arm chair stat jockeys who have merely a “paper tiger” concept of the game. This game is not won by statistical composites. This game, as well as every other game is played and won by heart and chemistry. All you PER guys, go ahead and put together a PER all-star team and I will kick your trash up and down the court with a chemistry driven team that imposes will rather than flowery stat columns. Gimme a break…..seriously. You know, last night had a ton of mixed shots, but at least we’ve stripped the log jam….Green, Watson, Collison, and Durant put together a game night last night statisticsally. The only thing I saw missing was the link that makes statistics legit….and that’s chemistry…..that is what makes the stats count. That’s what turns the stats into wins. We are closer to being something than most of you think…Late.
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:44 pm
dave I was fence straddling between what Presti believes about building culture and some sarcasm of my mine not seeing that desire realized in any meaningful way yet and realizing that it takes time to move from the former to the later. But I may have punched that button enough and will at least try to wait til later before doing so again, perhaps after Presti / PJ have enough time to prove or disprove by their cultural results (not talk).
D_G your PER can be effected to some extent by the PER of your teammates. That is a fair observation. Getting shots or rebounds or assists is somehwat harder with LBJ as a teammate over a lesser star. Other Sonics besides the top bigs may not get as many rebounds as they would if top Sonics bigs were lesser on that. Assists on this team are either PG centric because of offense design and / or relative low ability among others. Points… you’d have to study and compare to other teams to comment on that accurately and I haven’t yet. Despite these affects an individual has a pretty good opportunity to influence their PER.
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:48 pm
On Elson vs Swift, from what I’ve heard about Fransisco, I’d pay him 2.25 million to not come back.
For fun we should put him and Wilcox together on the post tonight and watch the missed assignments. This is the stuff that will keep me somewhat interested.
PS, if Swift is out, bring Sene up for 18 minutes anight and run Petro for 30 or until they foul out. Time for some Cola and er…..Diet Cola…
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:48 pm
PER is shorthand, I don’t pimp it as magic, it is just shorter than writing 5 paragraphs assessing what a player does well average and poorly.
Good to know you’ve coached Joshu@. I welcome hearing comments from that perspective.
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Steve Says:
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:40 pm e
I agree re: Wilcox as well. Perhaps a draft day trade where they package some combo of Wilcox, Luke, and the Suns pick. I was trying to see if a deal with NJ would make sense or work under the cap … doesn’t seem to.
Before the BYC comment comes blurting out from somebody, that BYC end a few days after the draft, the announce the trade pending, and complete it when next year’s contract clock starts. That is why they coulda traded him on draft day, but not a week later. This year they can trade him on draft day, and complete the trade about a week later. For that matter, they could make the deal when the two teams involved have completed their seasons (no more games) and complete the transaction about a week after the draft when the BYC comes off (not that anybody would actually do that).
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:52 pm
The game is won from a rich mix of things: player talent, coaching x & o’s and player teaching, game management … and stat analysis that aid the coach or the GM to make adjustments to try to get edges in a very competitive league.
Dis PER some… fine
Dis the value of stat analysis broadly.. I’ll disagree one last time and let you do your thing and I’ll do mine.
February 22nd, 2008 at 12:56 pm
“Does Presti move Wilcox this summer? I think there is good chance. Go young, tank, save money, build culture… If he does and Collison moves full time to PF maybe you keep Swift and Elson.” Quote by Crow
I think there’s a good chance of that happening and i could even see Presti on draft day, trading up into the late lottery - late teens, while using Wilcox and that Suns pick or those 2nd rounders.
As far as that second thought goes. The only way we should start Collison, is if we’re able to pair him with a guy that can score down low. An Elson or Swift/Collison combo would not achieve that and still give us trouble, as soon as we’re forced to play half court offense.
“Here’s a question for the group, would you rather have Elson at $2-2.5 next year or Robert Swift on a nearly $4 mil QO?” Quote by Steve
I really like Swift and i’m rooting for him, but if he’s not able to at least play 20 games in a row, then i’d rather go with the cheaper guy(Elson) and let some other team take a shot at Swift.
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:00 pm
I’ve listened to and seen a lot a coaches make ridiculous, not smart, not successful moves from their knowledgebase. I say that not to belittle coaches as much as to just be real and level the field. Seen enough to match the ridiculousness of the worse half of stat talk. But I’ll try to find and pay attention to the best half of both. I don’t and am not qualified to coach the NBA but I am pretty well qualified to offer stat based analysis.
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:08 pm
The game is won from a rich mix of things: player talent, coaching x & o’s and player teaching, game management … and stat analysis that aid the coach or the GM to make adjustments to try to get edges in a very competitive league.
Definately. In this day and age, to blindly close one’s eyes to the many levels of information available to us, is foolish.
The most knowledgeable people in the game today are those that are able take both stat based and court (real life on the court experience) based information and make informed decisions based on the best of both worlds.
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Hopefully Wilkins & Gelly will realize their role has to include scoring and they’ll start to get aggressive & build confidence. Both those cats can fill it up but have so many splinters in their rear ends (and in their egos) that it’ll take a while for ‘em to get back on track…and oh yea it would probly take a coach who can actually give them clear roles.
It amazes me that PJ doesn’t seem able to get players to fill defined roles. Jeff Green could be amazing (and will be someday) if he only knew what he was supposed to be doing. Tell Gellybelly he’s the defensive stopper and he’ll lock anyone down (y’all recall him playing Rip Hamilton last year and Rip going 0-9 while Gelly was on him? And did y’all see him shut B-Roy down last night?).
Poor Swifty. And poor fLuke. Earl is finally showing what he can do when given consistent minutes, and Frodo is getting beat like a drum by other teams’ guards while he is on the court…
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Ooooh, Joshu has COACHED basketball. Wow! That makes him so special and rare. There are so few COACHES in the world.
I’m curious, Joshu, why would you assume there aren’t coaches and players on this blog? Why would you suddenly arrive and believe that we haven’t talked about TEN MILLION different ideas concerning basketball, including the chemistry, biology, geology, theology, and archaeology of basketball?
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:11 pm
“Shut up about the PER….will you all please stop talking about the PER. Let me ask you a question…how many of you have coached? I’ve coached, and am still a coach.”
Argument from authority fallacy.
I won’t get drawn into the ‘chemistry’ canard other than to say I never saw or played on a winning team that didn’t have chemistry, and likewise never saw or played on a losing team team that did. Winning breeds chemistry, not the other way around.
Stat is not the end all be all of analysis and conventional coaching wisdom isn’t either. The most successful organizations in sports don’t discount any form of analysis to make their teams better.
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:11 pm
When you have time Joshu@ I’d be interested in hearing any coaching based recommendations on what type changes to playcalls, positioning, execution or skill technique that you recommend to improve the performance of Durant and Green and team. Really.
As a coach, based on where things stand right now, who should be the starting 5 and why? What do you propose to improve chemistry on the court? What are the greatest needs to build a successful team?
Don’t want to hear about PER, etc.? OK, bring something better then.
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:12 pm
“Earl is finally showing what he can do when given consistent minutes”
Sigh.
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:16 pm
“Earl is finally showing what he can do when given consistent minutes”
yes, he played great and the team almost won.
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:16 pm
“The game is won from a rich mix of things: player talent, coaching x & o’s and player teaching, game management … and stat analysis that aid the coach or the GM to make adjustments to try to get edges in a very competitive league. ”
I never said that statistics don’t matter, but the problem is statistical composites get too much weight on this board. And being a coach does make a difference, it gives you a different look that statistical philosophers who are detached from the actual game don’t and cannot possibly understand. Now I agree, some coaches at the NBA, MLB, and NFL levels, at the High School levels, and college aren’t neccessarily great at that level. But unless you have coached, you just don’t understand. And while X’s and O’s matter somewhat, while statistics matter somewhat, and while talent matters somewhat, without chemistry you can’t glue them together and actually produce the balance neccessary to win championships.
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Heading off the inevitable complaints:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/watsoea01.html
his shooting percentages are up over last year, he’s definitely more efficient on offense than in 07 but this season is right in line with his PER career averages, I know PER is not perfect but I think it’suseful for comparing a player’s past seasons with current ones. YMMV.
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:19 pm
earl is the better PG, better than luke, I will miss them both, as soon as possible.
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Oh crap, soon Beantown will be telling us that he played and therefore knows more than Joshu@ whose only coached and yada yada yada.
Talk about opening up a can of worms no one wants to read.
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:25 pm
no scott, he’s busy golfing with Tom Brady.
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:34 pm
First of all if Beantown really did play ball in the League, then I have much respect and would really give his advice and insight tremendous weight and value. I am a very confident that he knows his stuff backward and forwards, and I am also very positive that I wouldn’t go toe to toe with the man…not saying I know that much, just my perspective and my healthy distain for the PER…when it rules your thinking and your analytical process.
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:39 pm
“no scott, he’s busy golfing with Tom Brady.”
Or helping the Patriots with next year’s operation of Spygate. I know this is not an NFL chat…but if it is true that Bellichick’s success is based on Spygate tactics, he will go down as one of the greatest cheaters and liers in the history of the NFL and quite possibly sports.
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:42 pm
Ok Joshua I’ll hear the diss of PER and like and pullback from the jump that it meant a diss of stat analysis in total. Perhaps I jumped to conclusion but that was what I thought you might be saying. We hear that occasionally here.
I’ll agree that being a coach would give an appreciation for the challenge that outsiders are less likely to fully grasp. But fans put themselves in that spot as much as possible so I don’t think the gap maybe as wide as some coaches somtimes suggest. Same with GMs and players.
But back to discussing the team as people are able and wish to…
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Luke the puke. lol
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:49 pm
To get at the flipside of player PER analysis…
What does it say about the system and coaching ability of PJ and Westhead that the runaway consensus player of the year in college as a freshman is shooting so weak and holding his PER down? Beyond the he is 19 argument.
What does it say about coaching insight and impact (and GM judgment) that a very versatile and successful in college Jeff Green has been handled / “guided” in a way that he is one of the worst main rotation players on PER, on counte4rpart match and on team +/- in the league? He is what 22? A rookie to be sure but is he performing weakly or is he being managed poorly? Or both of course is an option.
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:52 pm
One of the biggest issues with PER, as has been discussed previously on this thread by the more astute bloggers, is that with all other stats being equal, a 6-24 shooting day will get scored higher than a 3-12 shooting day under the PER system.
Some people don’t know how to use or understand stats; for example, prior to the all-star game, I made the point that Brandon Roy wasn’t on the same level with Manu Ginobili. Another blogger made the comment back that their stats were even. What that blogger failed to recognize was that at that time, Ginobili played seven less minutes per game than Roy. He was actually really making my point for me as Ginobili was able to match Roy’s actual production despite playing seven fewer minutes per game at the time. I agree with Joshua that stats can be misued; however, I tend to side with Crow that if you take a critical analysis of stats (unlike the blogger in the case of Roy v. Ginobili), they can be quite useful in determining what went right, wrong, or will need to be improved in the future.
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:59 pm
I’m not sure whether my comment sparked Joshua’s response or not . . . if it did, it’s ironic b/c the comment is far from an endorsement of PER.
Instead, I note that Hollinger (the creater of PER) misuses it when assessing the Cavs trade. Hollinger (from ESPN and not this board) claims the Cavs improved b/c they upgraded vis-a-vis PER. I’m suspicious b/c I think that these PER numbers are biased downward when teamed with a bona-fide superstar (except when that star is a point guard).
In the end, I agree with Myk who looks at this trade in terms of how it addressed the Cavs needs, and not in terms of PER. I don’t get the trade. The Cavs needed a point guard. They got D. West.
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:59 pm
“But back to discussing the team as people are able and wish to… ”
And I apologize, I never meant to come across as condescending….
and to answer your question about Green and Durant, I think they are being managed poorly. And that is one thing I think you DON’T have to be a coach to see. When I watched them play the Raptors you could see that Durant and Green were getting buried by 1. either getting him the ball once you get across half court as or 2. Swinging the ball or rotating to him. I also didn’t Green getting a chance to flash in the post so he could get the entry. I think he could really be a tough draw(matchup) for PF if you get him out on the high post one on one. and I think with Durant as a viable threat you could have a really special intermediate/mid range game that way.
February 22nd, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Joashua, the only person who really relies on PER is Myk. Most of the bloggers here recognize its limitations as a metric. He is the only one who has argued hilariously that Chris Paul had a better rookie season than Magic Johnson because Paul had a higher PER (his typical response is that those who disagree with this outrageous statement are biased by what Magic did later in his career).
February 22nd, 2008 at 2:00 pm
[i]his shooting percentages are up over last year[/i]
I have always thought that his shooting is horrible. So I was surprised to find that in 05-06 season he actually shot better than 40% at the 3pt line. He is shooting 40% in this season, and obviously last season he was much worse, only 33%. (Actually last season was one of the worst seasons -stat wise- in his career).
February 22nd, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Where are the 5 shots Durant should be looking for all the time and how does he get clean in balance looks there? And why after 50 games is he still either not getting there under the right conditions or not converting better?
A coach might be able to tick them off from watching / memory but I am not that sharp so I go to his shot chart and see:
Right corner 3
in the paint
left baseline fairly long range
right wing midrange
right baseline fairly long range
Does that sound like a shotchart of a SG?
Not to me but those are the best spots for this player assigned to play SG by this headcoach / GM. Didn’t expect it to work, it hasnt worked well beyond just getting him on the court and protecting from tougher matchups, I don’t think it is the right spot for him in the future either. If shot chart results don’t change next season and they stick with it longer anyways I” tend to think it is ridiculous coaching. but I am not a coach so I don’t know what they know.
How to get them? I don’t pretend to know in detail. Let the coaches figure that out. Just get there more often and under better conditions and then it is up to Kevin to deliver.
February 22nd, 2008 at 2:12 pm
I may, or may not respect what he knows (I’ll never get far enough to find out), but as a person in the company of strangers he leaves a lot to be desired.
Effective communication is dependant on understanding the context where the communication takes place.
beantown is an asshole to me on the internet, that is where we are right now, and the only place I have ever had, or will have, any contact with him. That is all I know of him, and that is who he is to me. On the internet you are what you say.
February 22nd, 2008 at 2:14 pm
I think I can find common ground with Joshua that
Sonics need to get Durant the ball in his best places for spot up shots (or short drives- short in length to try to get to the shot before the second man arrives as is the case too often on long drives from the top perimeter, the place he was started too many of his drives his rookie year either from not understanding that the NBA is different from college where he could do that - being bigger and longer than most opponents or not being guided well enough by his coaches on this fairly obvious point)
and that it indeed would be great to get Green more flashes in the paint opportunities which - against the right cover- he will probably do pretty well on.
February 22nd, 2008 at 2:20 pm
If I come off wrong now or previously, on my own or in response, I’ll take responsibility for that too Joshua. No worries, moving on.
February 22nd, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Does Presti move Wilcox this summer? I think there is good chance. Go young, tank, save money, build culture… If he does and Collison moves full time to PF maybe you keep Swift and Elson.
Crow I agree about moving Wilcox. Actually I think I’m the biggest advocate of getting him out of here. I don’t think he really fits with the team. Maybe we can get someone with more talent (Beasley for example) and have Collison be a fulltime bench player. Swift, Petro, and possibly Elson can battle for the center position next year.
February 22nd, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Another good article by Art:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/thiel/352303_thiel22.html
Simmons also linked both Art and Steve Kelley’s articles from earlier this week. This is the third comment by Simmons in a week about the situation. JA Andade has also suggested he will be writing more about this situation. Seems like a good sign.
February 22nd, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Joashua, the only person who really relies on PER is Myk. Most of the bloggers here recognize its limitations as a metric. He is the only one who has argued hilariously that Chris Paul had a better rookie season than Magic Johnson because Paul had a higher PER (his typical response is that those who disagree with this outrageous statement are biased by what Magic did later in his career).
In the end, I agree with Myk who looks at this trade in terms of how it addressed the Cavs needs, and not in terms of PER. I don’t get the trade. The Cavs needed a point guard. They got D. West.
- I love how I get pulled into contradictory statements. Of course, Alex really can’t argue with the logic that Magic’s season was great because Magic ended up being the greatest PG of all time. Something tells me that if Paul became the greatest PG of all time people would evaluate his rookie season a bit differently…don’t see why that seems so far off base.
- PER is a good stat to compare people because it relies less on minutes played and more on production. Of course, there are sometimes when PER should be used in conjunction with watching a player play…Michael Jordan may not have the best PER ever (i haven’t really looked) but most would agree he was the best player ever…despite his low FG% as compared to players like Wilt…
- As for Hollinger’s analysis of the trade…one of the things he did was specifically tailor his comparisons so they fit his argument. Instead of comparing Gooden to Wallace (which seems much more logical) he compares Wallace to Marshall and Smith to Gooden so that it looks like all players coming in had better PERs then their counterpart. Of course, comparing Smith to Marshall would show a bigger difference in PER between two players…but I still think that would’ve been a more fair comparion.
February 22nd, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Wilcox is the man! I’ll take him and his stoner attributes over Collision’s airballs and getting manhandled anyday.
February 22nd, 2008 at 2:51 pm
the Thiel story, I was reading while walking into work, made me laughed out loud, driftwood, priceless.
February 22nd, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Simmons…four articles in a row:
On the flip side, Presti has to be slammed a little for how the Ray Allen trade turned out: Basically, the Sonics dealt Ray Allen and “Big Baby” Davis for Jeff Green and Donyell Marshall’s corpse and saved $10 million for the 2008-09 season … money that they won’t be spending on players because their soulless owner is busy destroying a 41-year history of professional basketball in Seattle. Does that sound like a good deal to you? Didn’t think so. I’d have more to say here, but the poor Sonics fans are like abused dogs in an animal shelter right now. Let’s just move on.
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:01 pm
“When I watched them play the Raptors you could see that Durant and Green were getting buried by 1. either getting him the ball once you get across half court as or 2. Swinging the ball or rotating to him. I also didn’t Green getting a chance to flash in the post so he could get the entry. I think he could really be a tough draw(matchup) for PF if you get him out on the high post one on one. and I think with Durant as a viable threat you could have a really special intermediate/mid range game that way. ”
I’m totally with you on Green. His facilitating ability and court sense would be great in the high post but they seem bound and determined not to use him that way. It seems like those things have been going on all season but we never see any adjustments by the coaching staff to change bad habits or as importantly identify positive ones.
I’m not blaming any one specific player or removing blame from the coaching staff but I do think that peer teaching is far more important in the pro game than in college. In college the coach has far more authority & ability to exert it. It’s much tougher to be a teacher in the NBA for a variety of reasons so young players have to pick up what they can from the vets.
I question whether or not Durant and Green are getting any real teaching or positive role modeling from the more veteran guys on the roster.
In hindsight it is unfortunate that they traded Ray because he could have served that mentoring role. At the time I believed it was because mgmt wanted Durant to assume that leadership role and make this ‘his’ team, but he seems a bit young or unwilling to see himself that way yet and perhaps it’s no surprise at his age. Surely there were other mitigating reasons for moving Ray; he definitely wasn’t getting any younger or cheaper, for sure … but then the club jettisons the two vets they had for more youth in the form of the pick in the KT deal and in Wally’s case …pretty much for nothing.
It’s perplexing because even if you buy into the theory that mgmt is purposefully making the team bad, then that is just bad mgmt. It’s very difficult to unlearn bad habits. If they weren’t going to keep Ray around at least have somebody on the roster with 8-10 years in the league that can mentor Durant & Green. It could even be a Chuck Person or David Wingate type guy that doesn’t play much. I’m not seeing that guy on this roster. Maybe Marshall. Maybe.
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:02 pm
xerces Says:
February 22nd, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Wilcox is the man! I’ll take him and his stoner attributes over Collision’s airballs and getting manhandled anyday.
Manhandled? Collison grabbed 14 boards against the likes of Pryzbilla and the lengthy LeMarcus Aldridge last night. Wilcox on the other hand went a COOL 0-5 from the field with 4 fouls. The only person that got manhandled is the master bong ripper that wears the #54 Sonics jersey.
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Joshua’s a coach. Well I’m the fucking king of the interweb.
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:06 pm
I question whether or not Durant and Green are getting any real teaching or positive role modeling from the more veteran guys on the roster.
- I dont feel that either of them are getting any real teaching of any kind at this point. They are just creating bad habits…its really a shame.
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Is anyone listening to KJR 950 today? Man, listening to some of the highlights from the glory days is giving me goosebumps. It reminds me why this fight is worth it…
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:38 pm
I’m listening to the live stream of it, very good stuff being discussed and ofcouse memories of times past.
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:40 pm
Just listening to Slade Gorton on KJR makes me feel a lot better about the whole situation. He didn’t say anything we didn’t know, but you just really get the impression he’s got things under control.
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:47 pm
We had a dust up but hopefully we can keep good conversation going. I assume we will given the responses.
Taking the reasonable suggestion to look beyond the stats to the court and team chemistry and thinking about some comments AK has made it the past I think Durant sounds like a “cornerman”. At least based on performance so far.
Maybe he can be that and a Brandon Roy type play with the ball upfront guy with time - that would make him a dual “role” threat” and make the team even harder to deal with than being just one. I personally think cornerman would have been easier to learn first but they choose not to deal first with easier role. OK let’s see how they choose to build on first half of season with second half (do they try SF / cornerman role for durant at all this season?) or next season.
Green in high or low post as SF or PF … find what works best. He seems like a sharp, fairly talented right motivated guy who should be able to make a role work … if the role/system “works”.
Yeah KJR made a major effort and the day is packed with good stuff. Thanks to KJR.
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:49 pm
“The only person that got manhandled is the master bong ripper that wears the #54 Sonics jersey.”
Where the hell did people conjure up this idea that Wilcox is a chronic pot smoker? I’ve never seen the guy display anything symptomatic of a weed habit. Collison of course has a stellar basketball IQ as we all know, and yet can’t shake the lazy pothead from the starting spot? Yeah, that just makes perfect sense.
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Where the hell did people conjure up this idea that Wilcox is a chronic pot smoker? I’ve never seen the guy display anything symptomatic of a weed habit. Collison of course has a stellar basketball IQ as we all know, and yet can’t shake the lazy pothead from the starting spot? Yeah, that just makes perfect sense.
- Ummm he does have corn rows…doesn’t everyone have to smoke pot who has a hair stly like that??!!??
J/k
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:55 pm
“Yeah KJR made a major effort and the day is packed with good stuff. Thanks to KJR.”
Anybody know why KJR’s making this eleventh hour push to keep the team here? I’d boycotted that station for almost a year because they’d written off the team as good-as-gone. Very stoked they’ve changed their tune. I wonder how much Softy has played a part in that. I never really got behind that guy until he made his startling appearance on the message boards and set the record straight on his passion for the team.
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Wilcox’s extracurricular smoking habits were explained to me by a former Sonics insider on the day Weezy (cough, couch) arrived in Seattle…
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:56 pm
I think it’s from him (at times) looking goofy and bewildred to what is going on on the court, alteast that is from what I’ve seen. I like him because he brings excitment to this squad when he plays, he is kind of like Lamar Odom, so much athleticism there but does not give full potential.
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:58 pm
We all should have known PJ was going to let Durant and Green take their lumps this year. He told us that was what was going to happen. He said he was going to use the exact same philosophy that Pop used with Tony Parker. Let him make a ton of mistakes. Find out what works and what doesn’t. Do stupid stuff. Then rein him in. Next year is when we find out what we have. Durant just needs to slow down a touch. Play with a little more balance on his drives, and react better to the help defense. Balance will come from an increase of core strength that comes with work and age. Remember how Kobe and McGrady, Garnett and O’Neil looked at a young age….a little awkward. (Lebron and Carmello were freakishly, physically advanced). He’ll never be a bruiser, but he doesn’t have to be. he just needs to build that core strength. Green is really tough to figure out right now. I love his instincts defensively, and I’m hoping that the obvious need for him to produce offensively the rest of the year will force him to play aggressively. He’s looked much better the last couple of games, so I’m hopeful.
The biggest problem this team has right now is an overall lack of basketball smarts. Wilcox, Collison, Watson, Wilkins, Luke, Petro…..none of them are basketball savvy. It’s like Doug Collins said last night, the Supes bigs are the worst passing bigs in the league. We don’t move well without the ball, we don’t pass well, we don’t know how to set others up. Thomas was the only guy who knew how to set a decent screen. it baffles me that Collison has been in the league for as long as he has and still can’t set a decent screen. Watching the end of the first half last night showed how much Earl has a clue..which is none (admittedly he has been playing..or should I say shooting, very well lately).
February 22nd, 2008 at 3:58 pm
” Ummm he does have corn rows…doesn’t everyone have to smoke pot who has a hair stly like that??!!??
J/k”
Yeah, you get where I’m going with this. But i’ll leave it at that.
February 22nd, 2008 at 4:01 pm
“Wilcox’s extracurricular smoking habits were explained to me by a former Sonics insider on the day Weezy (cough, couch) arrived in Seattle…”
Yeah, I hear a lot about who’s a coach and who’s got inside info. Unsurprisingly I only hear that stuff from people on the internet. BS.
February 22nd, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Balloholic, it was a joke that people on here came up with when Wilcox had embarassing games on the defensive end.
As for this comment from you:
Collison of course has a stellar basketball IQ as we all know, and yet can’t shake the lazy pothead from the starting spot? Yeah, that just makes perfect sense.
Just about as much sense as Green starting over WallyZ. The decisions made by the coaching staff always makes sense doesn’t it…?
February 22nd, 2008 at 4:06 pm
Woops, that should read *don’t they?
February 22nd, 2008 at 4:09 pm
“Just about as much sense as Green starting over WallyZ. The decisions made by the coaching staff always makes sense doesn’t it…?”
Not the same situation at all.
Wilcox - prod. 19.1, Opp - 18.7 = +/- = 4.1
Collison - prod. 16.8, Opp - 18.7 = -1.0
Collison’s also coming off the bench.
“Balloholic, it was a joke that people on here came up with when Wilcox had embarassing games on the defensive end.”
So why don’t we just have jokes about our whole damn team passing the dutchie to the left hand side?
February 22nd, 2008 at 4:11 pm
correction: Collison’s opp. production should be 18.1
February 22nd, 2008 at 4:17 pm
“Joshua’s a coach. Well I’m the fucking king of the interweb. ”
And I’m the Pope of Chili Town!
“Where the hell did people conjure up this idea that Wilcox is a chronic pot smoker? I’ve never seen the guy display anything symptomatic of a weed habit. ”
Ever seen him in a non-working situation?
February 22nd, 2008 at 4:19 pm
“Ever seen him in a non-working situation?”
Yeah. And?
February 22nd, 2008 at 4:21 pm
I’m a coach.
I’ve coached 4 years & I’ll coach 2 more, but after than I’ll quit. My son will be in middle school
February 22nd, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Chili Town. That’s the last place I need to visit today. Pizza Sauce town has damn near half the office in quarantine.
February 22nd, 2008 at 4:32 pm
““Ever seen him in a non-working situation?”
Yeah. And? ”
Just wondering, that’s all.
http://www.snpp.com/episodes/3F24.html
“That Simpson, he thinks he’s the Pope of Chili Town … well I’ll show him.”
“Heh heh heh. Don’t quit your day job Chief … whatever THAT is … “
February 22nd, 2008 at 4:38 pm
“… Homer calls a personal ad placed by a gay black male (GBM)?”
““Heh heh heh. Don’t quit your day job Chief … whatever THAT is … “
Oh man, that show is genius. Family Guy OTOH, what a jip. Sorry, end rant. In desperate need of a cold Duff’s.
February 22nd, 2008 at 5:10 pm
“Joshua’s a coach. Well I’m the ******* king of the interweb.”
First of all, watch your mouth. Second, I have our team’s highlight video, and I’ll be happy to send you pictures of me with Robert Anai and Bronco Mendenhall while our staff is at BYU in a month or so. OR maybe you’d like to talk to my head coach(I’m an assistant)…I got his number. Look bro, why would I lie about something like that seriously……
Anywho, now that that is over, how many of our trade acquisitions will actually be in uniform tonight?
February 22nd, 2008 at 5:13 pm
“I’m a coach.
I’ve coached 4 years & I’ll coach 2 more, but after than I’ll quit. My son will be in middle school ”
You’re a lucky guy, I’m still pretty young and not married so I am not fortunate enough to have kids, but that must be a special experience to be able to coach your boy. THat is something that I look forward to.
February 22nd, 2008 at 5:13 pm
“I’m a coach.
I’ve coached 4 years & I’ll coach 2 more, but after than I’ll quit. My son will be in middle school ”
You’re a lucky guy, I’m still pretty young and not married so I am not fortunate enough to have kids, but that must be a special experience to be able to coach your boy. THat is something that I look forward to.
February 22nd, 2008 at 6:13 pm
So why don’t we just have jokes about our whole damn team passing the dutchie to the left hand side?
- Cause Luke is white…duh…
February 22nd, 2008 at 7:00 pm
because the left hand side was traded yesterday, I think the rest of the players on the team are right handed.
February 22nd, 2008 at 7:33 pm
Not the same situation at all.
Wilcox - prod. 19.1, Opp - 18.7 = +/- = 4.1
Collison - prod. 16.8, Opp - 18.7 = -1.0
Collison’s also coming off the bench.
Because stats mean EVERYTHING.
Not the same situations but it doesn’t take away from the fact that PJ’s rotations don’t make sense. Everybody knows that. He left Wilkins in the starting lineup when he didn’t deserve it. He then decided to bench Collison when Wilcox came back even though Collison was putting up double doubles regularly. Then you have his brilliant end of game decisions where he plays Watson all of 12 minutes in the 3rd, and Ridnour all of the 4th.
February 22nd, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Wilcox’s in his last 3 games: a total of 19 pts on 26% shooting, 9 rebs (none offensive), 0 blocks. Now that’s a ROFL.
February 22nd, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Mr. Baker, Beantown hasn’t been around in awhile and I am guessing here but perhaps that was a choice made to break from the pattern that developed then. Maybe things go better in the future. Time could tell … or not.
February 23rd, 2008 at 12:25 pm
“First of all, watch your mouth. Second, I have our team’s highlight video, and I’ll be happy to send you pictures of me with Robert Anai and Bronco Mendenhall while our staff is at BYU in a month or so. OR maybe you’d like to talk to my head coach(I’m an assistant)…I got his number. Look bro, why would I lie about something like that seriously……”
You’re not a coach, you’re a kid who’s afraid of statistics . WATCH YO MOUF!
March 2nd, 2008 at 10:39 am
Collison is more mature.[his ego won't bruise as easily as wilcox concerning coming off the bench.And for PJ's starting rotation strategies,it can't be easy when your basically[spelling?] starting over with mostly new young talent.And like Hill,I respect PJ’s willingness to take chances,to find out what will eventually work out best for the team. Hell,I don’t envy anyone in that situation.Like Hill,PJ knows he could end up jobless just like that.He’s no George Karl and he sure is’nt zen master Pill Jackson,but if his decision making pans out for the best,we could eventually be in for one hell of a ride. However,if they end up leaving the state of washington,I’ll be rooting for Mr. Sonic himself.[that is,after some real intense psychotherapy]I do love Nate. Defense rules.end of discussion. If any of you thinks I’m a moron,I do the best I can. Goodwill to all Sincerely,THE FAN