Game Thread: Seattle Sonics at Philadelphia 76′ers
Posted on Friday, March 7th, 2008 at 5:36 pm by Mr. Baker (thinking good thoughts for George Karl))
Game on!
It aint easy being Green & Gold, but I manage.
Posted on Friday, March 7th, 2008 at 5:36 pm by Mr. Baker (thinking good thoughts for George Karl))
March 7th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Here is a Soundoff on Gregoire’s comments. There are a couple anti Arena folks. Go post a response.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/soundoff/comment.asp?articleID=354199
March 7th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
lovely news from Gregoire…..what does she think he was going to say??/
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004268191_websonics07m.html
March 7th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
The Sixers are actually an extremely solid bet to make the Eastern Conference playoffs. They have pretty much the same efficiency differential as the Cavs and will probably have a positive point differential on the season after they win this game. If Arenas does not return, they probably could even overtake the Wizards for the sixth spot.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Wow, for the first time this year, I had to stop watching a Sonics game. Just couldn’t take the team’s total surrender. Everybody was awful; our interior defense is so bad.
I think I’ll get in my time machine, go back to the 1980s, and bring back Moses Malone, Dan Roundfield, and Truck Robinson.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
The silver lining is that Kevin Durant has shot at least fifty percent from the field in the last three games.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
how is that mutually disrespectful relationship between Marshall and PJ working out for the rest of the team?
I do not care how they really feel about each other on the inside, it is poison to task oriented group dynamics where there is a defined leadership role (coach), the rest of the group loose respect for both if those guys by being exposed to the context of their communication style.
March 7th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
“how is that mutually disrespectful relationship between Marshall and PJ working out for the rest of the team?
I do not care how they really feel about each other on the inside, it is poison to task oriented group dynamics where there is a defined leadership role (coach), the rest of the group loose respect for both if those guys by being exposed to the context of their communication style.” {Mr. Baker}
But … but … but … it’s about culture!
Sam Presti is just an extension of Clay Bennett.
March 7th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
PJ is a jerk. Look at the bench during timeouts. He’s alienated half of the guys on the team.
March 7th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
“PJ is a jerk. Look at the bench during timeouts. He’s alienated half of the guys on the team.” {Lester}
P.J. Carlesimo is a loser. His record speaks for itself.
March 7th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Yeah - I am no fan of PJ. He has thrown Gelly under the bus after 4 solid games and 1 lousy one. There must be more to the story.
I also detest coaches who need to yell to get their point across.
March 7th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
I detest coaches the yell and still can’t get their point across.
March 7th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
The silver lining is that Kevin Durant has shot at least fifty percent from the field in the last three games.
- And he’s actually been showing a little fire…maybe the kid has finally stopped trying to following the poor coaching and do what he feels he has o do.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
myk, you have a very good point.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
“And he’s actually been showing a little fire…maybe the kid has finally stopped trying to following the poor coaching and do what he feels he has o do.” {Myk}
Kevin Durant is still a disgustingly bad defender, but at least he’s become more efficient on offense. With Durant almost totally abandoning the three-point shot and frequently driving to the basket, it’s pretty obvious that he must become a full-time small forward next season—even if that move pushes Jeff Green to the bench.
On another topic, the Phoenix Suns are in a crisis.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Durant is driving hard to the hoop much more often than he used to…
March 7th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
“On another topic, the Phoenix Suns are in a crisis.”
I think they’ll be fine from the perspective that they’ll make the playoffs; all that it will probably take to get in for Phoenix is eight more wins. The key game this week is against the Warriors; if they lose that game, the Warriors will have won the seasons series and would win the tiebreak should the two teams have the same record at the end of the season.
Suns-Spurs or Mavs-Spurs seemed likely as possible playoff matchups at the beginning of the season; I don’t think anyone ever believed that such series could take place in the first round.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Durant is a decent on-ball defender but he doesn’t rotate well. He’d block 2 or 3 shots a game if he’d friggin’ rotate…
March 7th, 2008 at 11:06 pm
Durant hasn’t hit a three in the last nine games. In fact, he has only taken six threes in the last nine games. An edict against the three-ball must have come from PJ. Three three-pointer attempts a game is probably too low for someone striving to become an elite shooting guard; if the three-point shot is not going to be an important part of Durant’s arsenal, then moving him to SF is probably a necessity.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
Something was wrong with the Suns prior to the Shaq daddy trade. Their spacing was not right. Grant Hill was a good pickup for them be he has not played well in the games I’ve seen this past month, nor has Barbosa. They just looked flat. Then the Shaq trade comes along and seems to have made Amare even better but only on the offensive end. The two of them are not getting it done on the defensive end and except for Bell no one else can play a lick of D. They look like the 05-06 Sonics… but with a much larger body in the middle.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
Sonics for season average about a third less 3 pt attempts than opponents. In last 10 games it is only half as many. But 3 pt FG% in that recent stretch is up to around 39%. Getting quality 3 pt shooting first then expanding makes sense. But Presti choose to subtract Wally and PJ choose to let Durant bomb away early and cut now rather than the reverse pattern. they can argue those points but I am not impressed with the way they run things generally.
Someone in describing why Brian Hill got fired from Orlando said his offense was too predictable and made it easy for the defense to guess. I think the same thing is in play here.
Agree or disagree?
March 7th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
Agree. Though not always true, a good indicator of the predictability of a team’s offense is the number of turnovers it averages. Last year, the Magic were second in the league in turnovers at 16.3. They shot the third fewest number of threes per game at 11.7 a game. Thus, they had one of the ten least efficient offenses in the league under Brian Hill.
This year, the Magic have cut the number of turnovers that they average per game by over two turnovers a game. They shoot more threes per game than every team in the NBA except for the Warriors. This transformation under Stan Van Gundy has turned them into the most efficient offense in the Eastern Conference. Last year, they finished with forty wins; they have forty wins right now and are on their way to a division title.
March 8th, 2008 at 12:01 am
Magic-Pistons should be interesting in the second round if that series happens as expected. No team relies more on the three-ball to produce offense than the Orlando Magic while no team in the Eastern Conference surrenders fewer threes per game than the Detroit Pistons. The contrast in styles should make for an intriguing series.
March 8th, 2008 at 12:09 am
“Something was wrong with the Suns prior to the Shaq daddy trade. Their spacing was not right. Grant Hill was a good pickup for them be he has not played well in the games I’ve seen this past month, nor has Barbosa. They just looked flat. Then the Shaq trade comes along and seems to have made Amare even better but only on the offensive end. The two of them are not getting it done on the defensive end and except for Bell no one else can play a lick of D. They look like the 05-06 Sonics… but with a much larger body in the middle.” {TukwilaSonic}
If Jermaine O’Neal wasn’t injured all the goddamn time, then the Phoenix Suns could’ve possibly traded Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks for him. O’Neal would’ve been a better fit both offensively and defensively with the Suns than Shaquille O’Neal, but that’s neither here nor there. As it is, though, Steve Kerr will ultimately regret the day that he traded for Shaq.
March 8th, 2008 at 12:19 am
Good details.
Having a 3 pt game helps make you more unpredictable as to where the shots are coming from with the stretch effect and also the drive iopportunities off on the stretch effect.
Being strong in defending the 3 at least done the rioght way takes the 3 pointer and a good part of the drive away leaving the wekaer mid-range option which over enough shots can easily lead to point deficits and losing.
So what does PJ do (presumably Presti is in agreement) he runs very very low 3 pt attack coupled with a zone that gives up lots of 3s. Predictable offense- Durant drives or the PGs looks for something easy inside off mistakes (not strong / capable post initiated offense) or scrambles for whatever midrange shot they can find. Defense that will get clobbered and / or fall apart when 3s are falling. Maybe it works ok when opponent is cool from 3 or lacks inside game but last in league Sonics offense essentailly keeps opponent in almost every game. Brilliant. Great environment to learn “winning basketball’. Not.
It is tank year 1 of the new administration. They are focused on acquiring many young players. If talented and fast lerners great. But if the systems and mangement of them suck so will the results.
March 8th, 2008 at 12:38 am
Combined with trading away any vet star level player (because they make to much and win too much for now) these systems and the early mangement of them with ever more young players will doom Presti and PJ to a Sonics career win % below 50% cumulatively probably until year 6 of the rebuild:
Say 20 win 2007-8
30 win 2008-9
40 win 2009-10
50 win 2010-11
55 win 2011-12
guess what? You can still short of 50% win cumulatively. Only another 50+win season gets you to .500.
The tank and rebuild from scratch model depends of forgetting year 1, 2 and 3 to get to year 4, 5, 6. It also depends on year 4, 5, 6 being in the 50+ win range. If you are in the mid 40s range in year 4, 5, 6 or maybe get to 50 wins just once but don’t sustain it (as they say is their goal) after sucking in years 1,2, 3 you blew up and gave away years and got very little in return. Really nothing worthwhile. If 30-40 wins a season was the cause of blowing up a team then mid 40s wins in year4,5, 6 is a very poor return. So Presti has to produce multiple 50+ win teams in year 4, 5, 6 or else he won’t be that “good” and the plan will be largely a waste. Unless you believe in year 7,8 and 9 or justify if by saying well it wasn’t worse than before and what it offered (except for years 1, 2 and however many more prove to be worse than before and what could be expected from having 2 experienced stars or experienced players back from trades for those stars that you don’t promptly trade away as well.)
But execute the grand design / talent acquisition / Westhead offense - Spurs/PJ defense / student Sonics teaching.
Call me when you get back to .500 once and call me again when you get there for the team long run that you promise will be the fruit of this wait.
March 8th, 2008 at 12:41 am
But don’t call me long-distance.
March 8th, 2008 at 12:49 am
Are local collect calls are out of the question?
March 8th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
“P.J. Carlesimo is a loser. His record speaks for itself. ”
Agreed! Course…..what’s his PER? Hehehehehe…..
“Durant hasn’t hit a three in the last nine games. In fact, he has only taken six threes in the last nine games. An edict against the three-ball must have come from PJ. ”
If PJ is gonna pencil KD in at the 2 and then turn around and tell him to cut the three point shooting, then it is detrimental to his progress to have him at the two on offense, put him at the 3 and let work the mid-range jumper. If PJ really is doing this to KD, then he is absolutely one of the most inept coaches in the history of basketball at any level at which one can coach.
March 8th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Alex, Presti and PJ aren’t going to “call” anybody here of course. Rather than a burden, working for Bennett in this situation has made it easier for them on this path. They aren’t rude about it but essentially they feel no pressure from the relationship with fans here at least at this time.
I’ll probably “call” them some via posts here but perhaps less.
March 8th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Presti / PJ take team that was 12th best on offensive efficency and 2th on defensive to 30th on offensive efficency and 21st and failing back again on defensive.
A shaky gain of 6 spots on defensive rank in exchange for an unchanging all season drop of 18 spots on offense.
But maybe a 5 spot improvement on each could be achieved in next year or two. And essentially put team back where it was- which was about the lowest it had been for 15-20 years.
To get to be a .500 team the offensive and defensive rankings will have to change in some combination by about 20 total spots. Do they aspire to be 20th on offense and 10th on defense. 15th on each? Somehow get back to 10th on offense but with 20th on defense?
To get to being a .600+ win team (currently necessary to be in playoff hunt (not in for sure just in the hunt) they will probably have to improve by 30 spots to get to 10th best on both or 5th / 15th or whatever. That is the case right now in the west among the final spot contenders with the exception of Golden State.
Big hill Presti created and chose PJ to lead team up.