Where we’re at
Posted on Wednesday, March 12th, 2008 at 4:26 am by Brian Robinson
Guys I hardly know where to start…There was a game last night. Thanks to Big Chris for keeping that in perspective.
It does not look like this is going to get done this session and that is just a tremendous disservice. They flat out ignored the will of the people. k
The governor’s office would like to pass the buck here but we really can’t do so. Their feeling is that sports fans, while emotional, will not turn out at the ballots and that over the next 6 months this issue will fade in their memory. Our task with her is going to be to get repetitive letters in all the papers criticizing the leadership displayed and to continue to send the political message that this issue is one that people are emotional about and can cost you an election. I doubt it will get her to call for a special session but you never know.
The good news is that our voice was heard and backers of the Sonics have al ot more energy than they did just a week ago. It is easy to forget how resgned we were to the fact that this court case being our last hope.
So we have owners, we have an arena plan, and we have $225 million. Now if the fans will just pitch in the other $75M
Not gonna happen.
The deputy mayor and potential ownership group huddled up yesterday and are looking at options that don’t include the state. It is a freaking travesty and I hope members of legislature who were duped by their leadership are ashamed of themselves. I know a lot of them really felt that this letter was enough because they were told that by their party leaders. Hopefully they will stand up and let it be known that they support things.
Believe it or not I’m feeling good this morning. Things are brewing along and people have in some fashion moved on.
We’re going to be looking into today whether we should begin rallying at the city council and county council urging them to support the mayor’s plan. The mayor will likely need the help but I don’t think we want to “swamp” them the way we have legislature. That could just piss them off. Let me look into it and get back to you all this morning.
.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:36 am
Pretty simple…
Bye bye Governor!
March 12th, 2008 at 4:42 am
WOW!
http://time-blog.com/10questions/2008/02/28/david-stern/
March 12th, 2008 at 4:44 am
Hats off to Ceis and Nickels. They stood up to Clay early on, and did the legwork on getting this group together. It’s not over yet! Keep fighting for what you believe in.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:01 am
I will definitely be voting against Gregoire. I’ve had just about enough of her.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:38 am
Can we get a petition going where people who voted for Gregoire last time vow to vote against her in November? If we could get a thousand names on there it might cause her to rethink her stance.
March 12th, 2008 at 5:48 am
More leadership shown by Chopp.
http://crosscut.com/blog/washington-legislature/12478/The+speaker+ducks+a+desperate+homeowner/
March 12th, 2008 at 6:17 am
Time to hammer on John Mcgrath:
http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/columnists/mcgrath/story/306766.html
March 12th, 2008 at 6:27 am
Some more important things.
http://crosscut.com/blog/washington-legislature/12477/Not+just+the+Sonics+want+those+stadium+taxes/
March 12th, 2008 at 6:35 am
Sorry to sound like a broken record, but what can Larry Phillips, Ron Sims, and the rest of the King County powers that be still offer besides moral support? Isn’t there no access to county funds without Olympia?
March 12th, 2008 at 6:37 am
Ron Sims? He is on the governor’s side. He is not on our side.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:37 am
“Coz Says:
March 12th, 2008 at 4:42 am
WOW!
http://time-blog.com/10questions/2008/02/28/david-stern/”
I think oklahomans are aknowledging what’s really happening and most don’t support the theft of the sonics from seattle
Posted by Jill Adler in OklahomaCity:
Is there any possibility of an expansion franchise or two being created withing the next ten years? How does a city like Oklahoma City, which feels it’s ready for a professional team, and seems to have proven that with support for the Hornets, and overwhelming support by it’s citizens for a new NBA ready facility, obtain a team without having to look for one that already exists in another city?
March 12th, 2008 at 6:38 am
Wow - McGrath’s article was super disappointing. At the end of it his e-mail & phone # are listed. When I calm down I’m going to contact him later in the day.
Kelly hit a home run IMO in The Times
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/stevekelley/2004276189_kelley12.html
March 12th, 2008 at 6:40 am
For today I enocurage all of us to….
1. Not give in to discouragement
2. Keep contacting the governor & Olympia people
3. Buy your tickets for the March 24 Blazer - Sonics game - a special SOS focus for that night that surely will be historic. Let’s get a sell-out!
March 12th, 2008 at 6:42 am
My impression of Sims is that he’s a lone ranger type, with his own pie-in-the-sky ideals that no one can quite understand. The rest of the King County Council doesn’t appear to back him. And sometimes the State doesn’t either.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:42 am
This was another article in The Times this morning.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/flatpages/local/seattlecenter.html
I wish people in Olympia would read this and have some VISION.
A first class Seattle Center Environment would be awesome - they have some terrific ideas - having a first class arena & NBA Team would be central to making this an exceptional resource for THE ENTIRE PUGET SOUND & EVEN STATE OF WASHINGTON!
This whole issue is bigger that sports IMO - Wish Chopp & Gov. & others could see this & have more vision.
March 12th, 2008 at 7:01 am
Its a shame that the governor is willing to just throw away 41 years of sonics basketball. Its been a dream of mine since i was little kid growing up in new york city to come out to seattle and to watch my favorite team play in the key arena. when my company transer me and my girl out here just 5 months ago and i was able to sit courtside at the key, i was like a little kid on christmas morning!
They should think about all the little kids that come to the key to watch and root for there favorite players either it be durant or green or kobe or lebron, seeing a dunk or making a game winning shot the joy that the game brings to the fans and the city of seattle
March 12th, 2008 at 7:19 am
i’d like to reiterate that a national writer is hosting an event this Friday, and all Sonics fans are encouraged to attend. wear your Supes gear, ESPECIALLY throwback jerseys.
this Friday, March 14 at the Pyramid Alehouse, ESPN writer named Paul Lukas is having a meet-and-greet. Paul writes his Uni Watch column for ESPN.com, and has a site at http://www.uniwatchblog.com.
“Seattle Update: Next week’s Uni Watch gathering in Seattle will take place on Friday, March 14th, 7:30pm, at the Pyramid Alehouse. Looking forward to meeting lots of you there.”
get down there and give Paul a respectful earful of Sonics love.
also: i’ve been reading through the comments on the TIME blog, and it is inspirational and heartbreaking at the same time. i posted my own question yesterday and there are already more than twice as many comments as were there when i wrote it. i doubt it has any effect on Stern but it will affect others. if you haven’t written your own question yet i encourage you to do so, respectfully. http://time-blog.com/10questions/2008/02/28/david-stern/
keep the faith. call the gov and your legislature again, can’t hurt. a special session is still possible. we’re 75 mil away from saving the Sonics AND Seattle Center! wow.
get down to Pyramid on Friday, buy Paul a beer and talk old-school unis.
March 12th, 2008 at 7:20 am
Here was my response to John Mcgrath’s article.
John,
If I was guaranteed a new team called the Sonics in 2010, I would take it in a heartbeat. But with David Stern running the show and the personal vendetta he has against the City of Seattle and State Legislators, I don’t see ANY way that this team leaves and we get a new team. NO WAY.
I am tired of people saying because Clay Bennett owns the team that there is nothing to be done. This is about creating leverage to have meaningful discussions with the NBA before the owners vote for relocation.
I 100% DISAGREE with your belief that since they are businessmen, they will overlook the notion of abandoning the 13th largest market with an arena plan in place for the 45th largest market, simply to maintain leverage to relocate their team. Remember, businessmen are also driven by profitability, something they stand to lose in the long run with a team located in Oklahoma City. The NBA has seen recent moves to smaller markets before and after the honeymoon has worn off, they have been largely unsuccessful (Memphis, New Orleans, Charlotte). Not to mention, it will be a PR nightmare for the league if nationally fans know that literally anyone can buy your team and move them out of town, regardless if the city / state is willing to work with them to help provide a place to play. The outcry of NBA fans if Stern were to allow a franchise to move would make a lot of people wonder about the state of the league and turn them off to its way of operating.
And if you don’t believe this to be true, look no further than Bill Simmons (National writer for the largest sports website in America) recent article on the issue that garnered the most response to any issue he has seen in 6 years. Look no further than the owner of the Utah Jazz’s comments that if a financing plan were in place in Seattle, it completely changes things and he would not approve the relocation.
And I am not even into the fact that this proposal is CONTINGENT of the local ownership group owning a team, or the fact that the state would benefit from an estimated $45 million of potential state tax revenue if this proposal were to go through, or that statewide residents outside of King County would not be contributing a dime for this and would stand to gain millions in revenue towards the General Fund. Legislature balking at this opportunity is a complete travesty.
Sincerely,
Kyle
Mukiteo, WA
March 12th, 2008 at 7:21 am
McGrath’s article was complete CRAP!!!
I emailed him the following:
____________________________
John,
I enjoy your articles, but I think today’s “Calm Down Fans” piece wasn’t on the right track… at all.
First off, how can you even put Ballmer and Clay Bennett in the same sentence? Ballmer and his group are giving an absolute gift of $150 million to the City of Seattle and Key Arena. All Clay Bennett ever gave us was heartburn and a ridiculous pipe-dream of a plan for a $500 million facility in Renton.
Do you really think Bennett will hold onto the team, if he’s denied relocation at next month’s NBA BOG meeting? Not a chance. He never had any plans of the Sonics staying in Seattle. And just like a spoiled little kid, if he doesn’t get his way he’ll throw a temper tantrum and ultimately sell to the highest bidder.
Keeping our logo and colors does absolutely NOTHING. We’re suffering right now through the growing pains of a young, inexperienced team. But they’re OUR team. I don’t want to just raise the white flag and let Kevin Durant and Jeff Green and all of their potential allowed to just pack up and move to OKC. Can you imagine the plight of Sonics fans if they’re subjected to watching Durant win the league’s MVP Award in several years, in a city that’s NOT Seattle? Fans would be looking for the nearest bridge to jump off.
We’re in a fight here to save our team. Your suggestion to just accept it and wait for a replacement NBA team was disappointing and absurd. Come on, John. We expect more from you.
Sincerely,
Scott Matlock
March 12th, 2008 at 7:25 am
I lost all respect for John McGrath a while ago, after I saw him flip out and throw a tantrum like a 6 year old in front of his wife when he couldn’t catch a cab after a Mariners game in Las Vegas a few years ago. I’ve never seen a grown man act so childish.
March 12th, 2008 at 7:26 am
Here’s what I emailed to McGrath… i should have also criticized him for his inappropriate words towards Ballmer… who is he to tell Ballmer to come back a year from now???
>>>>>
I can’t decide whether:
1) you are ignorant to subtext here… the subtle negotiating that is taking place behind the words of the various parties, including Clay Bennett. The true motivations of the parties.
2) worse, you do get it and you are a shill and using your platform irresponsibly.
How about doing some research into how many times an owner has bought a professional sports team and threatened to move, then sold once the local municipality chipped in?
How about looking into how Gregoire, Sims and Chopp would like to use the $75M, rather than to help renovate Key Arena?
March 12th, 2008 at 7:31 am
I wrote my letter to him, but didn’t send it and won’t share it here, John doesn’t get it…i’m supposed to be shocked by this somehow?
March 12th, 2008 at 7:43 am
Here was a letter I wrote to Steve Kelley, applauding his stance. I will also send something similar to the editors of all papers.
Steve,
You are right on with this article. I am ashamed and embarrassed to be represented by legislature that is so unwilling to show leadership and see the big picture. This is a much larger issue than just the Sonics. If Key Arena’s primary tenant is free to leave, the Seattle Center will become an irrelevant ghost town and debt will STILL be owed on the bonds. With no revenue stream in place, general funds will be used to pay off existing debt. The benefits of this proposal with reach so much farther than NBA basketball (employment opportunities, increased revenue stream through state taxes, existing debt amortization, increased economic growth, a state of the art facility for conventions / concerts / etc.).
I feel like I am beating my head against the wall when I hear the excuse that because Clay Bennett owns the team that there is nothing to be done. This is about creating leverage to have meaningful discussions with the NBA before the owners vote for relocation.
On top of that, that this proposal is CONTINGENT of the local ownership group owning a team. How hard is that concept to understand? What does the legislature take me for? Do they really think I can’t see through that? Do they think I am that dumb? Their comments for not doing anything are insulting in the fact that they think that we are that gullible; if you can’t do it, stand up and simply say no.
I’m not even to the fact the state would benefit from an estimated $45 million of potential state tax revenue if this proposal were to go through, or that statewide residents outside of King County would not be contributing a dime for this and would stand to gain millions in revenue towards the General Fund, the fact that we are saying no to a $500 million dollar civic donation. Legislature balking at this opportunity is a complete travesty and is unforgivable.
This is such a no-brainer that I cannot even think straight anymore when I hear people say they are against it. I can’t recall ever being this frustrated about something that is so far out of my control.
Sincerely,
Kyle
Mukilteo, WA
March 12th, 2008 at 7:48 am
Call the Governor’s Office (360) 902-4111, and them know Gregoire has LOST your vote because of her lack of leadership and the disrespectful sluffing off of WA state sports fans. How dare they say our votes are worthless! I just called and left a message stating this is one sports fan that will NOT forget, and Governor Gregoire has lost my vote. How fucking dare her!
March 12th, 2008 at 7:49 am
Does anyone know who to email or what the link is to send a letter to the editor of the PI / Times / NewsTribune?
March 12th, 2008 at 7:54 am
although i’m european it still hurts pretty bad to see the Sonics in this situation. They’ve been the only NBA team i’ve rooted for since i started to get into basketball in 1990.
The way this whole debacle is panning out i’m allready a bit turned off by the NBA at the moment. I vow to never buy any piece of NBA merchandising ever again if this move really happens.
No more jersey’s, Tee’s, sweatbands, Spaldings, …
If part of the money is going to the NBA, im not buying it!
It has been said before but i believe this is just the tip of the iceberg. Other team’s fans will feel our pain too, soon enough…
March 12th, 2008 at 7:56 am
Well I just sent Gregoire and McGrath nice little emails.
It’s really disturbing that we have someone so… ignorant in office.
I used to rank the papers I read:
1. Seattle Times
2. Tacoma News Tribune
3. Seattle PI
But now I can confidently say, besides Frank Hughes, I will never read the TNT again. Completely irresponsible writing. I’ve never wanted to slap someone for writing a column in a paper as much as I want to at this moment.
He completely missed the point.
March 12th, 2008 at 7:58 am
I remember the Bubbleator.
I remember Bob Rule, Al Tucker, Walt Hazzard, Tom Meschery, Lucius Allen, Bobby Weiss and Rod Thorn.
I remember running thru the Center fountain.
I remember JP and Gertrude on KIRO.
So $700 million is going to be spent on a Seattle Center upgrade. The Mercer Garage is going to be torn down for unspecified commercial development. Isn’t that right next door to someone’s mega foundation? Some how 10 additional acres of prime downtown real estate are going to be added to the park. We haven’t increased the size of the park since 1962. Paul Allen is solving the Mercer Mess problem. An now Ballmer wants to Save the Sonics. I have a hard time believing the Mayor would initiate a $700 million dollar makeover of the Center without some awfully deep pockets backing his plan. The City will go to the taxpayers next fall for the public share. OKC comes up with only $120 million. The NBA out to be impressed with the City of Seattle’s $700 million effort.
March 12th, 2008 at 7:58 am
editpage@seattlepi.com
https://secure.thenewstribune.com/opinion/letters/
March 12th, 2008 at 8:06 am
i am deeply disappointed in gregoire & co., but not surprised, and not shattered, either. i’ve studied these things for years, including professionally, and i think the outlines of a solution are in place. it might not be now or even in the next several months, but somehow, when all the dust settles, i think okc and seattle will be nba towns, while n’awlins or memphis will not.
most of what the powerbrokers — stern, especially — are saying now is totally bogus and not worth listening to.
money talks, bs walks. and in the end, seattle will have money, a track record, an arena plan, and a proven & big market. the ‘mid-sized southern strategy’ is a mirage. . .
but jeez, w/the offer right there, the gov could easily have shown leadership and given us a great future w/out the suspense.
sigh. go seattle, go (i mean, ’stay’) sonics.
March 12th, 2008 at 8:12 am
Does anyone know when Cropp is up for re-election? We need to get a list together for all the elected officials that are up for re-election. We have to get these people out and it will be up to us. We can never forget what has gone on. In the end do we want a state run by them. NO
March 12th, 2008 at 8:15 am
I don’t buy or read the P-I anymore because of the Jim Moore column rooting for Clay Bennett to move the team to OKC. If they want me back, they can trade Jim Moore to OKC for some softball sized hail or a tornado.
Our local papers are terrible and a big reason why the Sonics are in their current situation and why we have so many inept, clueless people in elected office such as Christine Gregoire, Ron Sims, Patty Murray, and Maria Cantwell.
Thank goodness for the internet and talk radio, or the Sonics would already be gone.
March 12th, 2008 at 8:18 am
Just for fun I relay an e-mail sent to me a while back…
While Frank Chopp. Jeff Morris and their boorish companions say they won’t consider Sonics legislation because “we have priorities” and there isn’t time, here are some of the bills they think are more important (bills that are still alive):
S 5596, concerning discrimination against chiropractors
S 5628, doing away with electoral college (which we as a state have no impact on — it is a federal issue)
S 5714, “creating a pilot program of Spanish and Chinese language instruction” (don’t many schools already offer language classes, especially Spanish?)
S 5746, regulating landscape architecture
S 5751, creating a beer and wine tasting pilot project in grocery stores
S 6361, Transferring jurisdictional route transfer responsibilities from the transportation improvement board to the transportation commission (meaningless bureaucracy at its best)
S 6375, Providing a sales tax exemption for certain trail grooming services.
S 6423 Strengthening the tax credit and modifying the governing board of a Washington motion picture competitiveness program (by all means, lets give more tax credits to Hollywood film makers, since they predominately support D’s, and provide such a positive economic and cultural impact to this state).
S 6438, Creating a statewide high-speed internet deployment and adoption effort (right, the private sector isn’t doing anything like this, let’s get government involved).
SB 6577, Providing for truth in music advertising.
SB 6604, Enhancing the mobility of certified public accountants.
SJM 8028, Requesting that the President and Congress support the participation of Taiwan in the World Health Organization.
EHB 1129, Providing excise tax relief for zoos.
SHB 1625, Allowing motorcycles to stop and proceed through traffic signals under certain conditions.
SHB 2727, Extending personality rights to deceased persons.
March 12th, 2008 at 8:20 am
Thanks Scott
March 12th, 2008 at 8:21 am
SJM 8028, Requesting that the President and Congress support the participation of Taiwan in the World Health Organization.
Holy crap are you kidding me? What type of benefit does this give to the citizens of Washington?
March 12th, 2008 at 8:22 am
http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Kahn_Games/2008/03/10/Dont_let_the_Sonics_leave_town
More attention being called to the crap bennett’s pulling
March 12th, 2008 at 8:24 am
McGrath’s article offended my delicate sensibilities with all this talk of letting my team go and then getting an expansion team. Ask the bobcats how that worked out.
My question to you all is thus: Would all of you be willing to drop the court case if it meant the nba would award an expansion franchise in a few years and allow us to keep the name/history/etc?
My answer is a resounding HELL NO! The day the NBA BOG allows my team to move is the day I turn my back on the league forever. I will support Slade Gorton and lobby him to exact a pound of flesh during trial. I want every little dirty secret about the broken NBA model to be revealed and permanently scar the league owners. I have ZERO interest in watching Durrant become one of the 50 greatest players in OKC. In fact, I think I would find it a personal affront to me and the three decades of support I have given the league. They will be dead to me
Bottom line: IF the NBA turns it back on me, I think Seattle City Attorney’s should say F’U to the possibility of a new team and go for the jugular. I will want to permanently revel in the satisfaction of knowing that Seattle aired the dirty laundry of a league that doesn’t care about the fans.
Your Thoughts?
March 12th, 2008 at 8:24 am
I emailed my entire fantasy football group and told them to hammer the numbers.
March 12th, 2008 at 8:27 am
Call the Governor’s Office (360) 902-4111, and them know Gregoire has LOST your vote because of her lack of leadership and the disrespectful sluffing off of WA state sports fans. How dare they say our votes are worthless! I just called and left a message stating this is one sports fan that will NOT forget, and Governor Gregoire has lost my vote.
- Last election for the first time I was on the fence between a Democrat and Republican candidate. Most likely I will support Rossi next time due to this situation. However, unlike some people here (this may be an assumption), I am much more disappointed in the fact that the “offer” did not even get discussed…not that it has not passed. Had the offer been discussed and for some reason denied then I would’ve been disappointed/mad/annoyed about the decision, but at least it would’ve been a decision. What is happening now is (in my eyes) a much bigger deservice to the Washington Sate citizen.
March 12th, 2008 at 8:27 am
The Court case is our freaking leverage.
God I hate John Mcgrath, I’ve been looking for a reason to cancel my subscription, now I got my reason.
March 12th, 2008 at 8:32 am
Kahn brought up a point that I’ve been meaning to write about.
What NBA team could we feasibly get to replace the Sonics? Shinn is trying to get a 10 year lease agreement, Memphis is stuck in their arena for 10 years.
What the hell are these people talking about?!?!
These Sonics need to stay IN Seattle or we aren’t having jack-squat for an NBA team for years.
And hell, at that point, I’m not even sure Seattle would embrace basketball again. Afterall, Stern could throw a tizzyfit and move the new sonics to… Siberia?
March 12th, 2008 at 8:33 am
I just sent McGrath a nasty gram for his article today. To paraphrase:
- Who should I believe has the better plan to keep the team, Slade Gorton or John McGrath?
- How could he make the comparison between Steve Ballmer and Clay Bennett (we should all be hammering him mercilessly on this point)
- We are not even close to being put in a position to wave the white flag.
What an idiot
March 12th, 2008 at 8:33 am
More attention being called to the crap bennett’s pulling
- Wow…check out page two of the comments. Kahn gets a little feisty with one of the posters. Surprised to see that from a national guy..
March 12th, 2008 at 8:34 am
My legislative rep, “Speaker” Chopp, never bothered to respond to my letters re the Sonics (which means he never bothered to have his staff draft a form response). That is simply lazy and disrespectful.
The other rep (Jamie Pederson) gave me the “we do not have enough time” excuse.
Needless to say - my donor dollars will be going to their opponents.
March 12th, 2008 at 8:37 am
kba,
Good idea. We need a list so we can remember in November. We need a list of arena supporters too.
Let’s get this started:
(copy and paste and add to list!)
Support for the arena proposal:
Greg Nickles, (D, Mayor of Seattle)
Dino Rossi (R, candidate for Governor)
Sen. Steve Hobbs (D - 44 Dist., Lake Stevens)
Rep. Sam Hunt (D - 22 Dist., Olympia)
Rep. Doug Erickson (R - 42 Dist., Ferndale)
Against getting arena proposal done now:
Christine Gregoire (D, Governor)
Sen. Frank Chopp (D - 43 Dist., Seattle)
Sen. Darlene Fairley (D - 32 Dist., Lake Forest Park)
Rep. Jeff Morris (D - 40 Dist., Anacortes)
Rep. Roger Goodman (D - 45 Dist., Kirkland)
March 12th, 2008 at 8:41 am
Khan is laying the smack down.
March 12th, 2008 at 8:42 am
Send letters to editors through links below:
editpage@seattlepi.com
https://secure.thenewstribune.com/opinion/letters/
opinion@seattletimes.com
Here were my comments:
I would like to thank the local ownership group for stepping up and giving hope to a future of the Sonics in Seattle.
I am ashamed and embarrassed to be represented by legislature that is so unwilling to show leadership and see the big picture. This is a much larger issue than just the Sonics. If Key Arena’s primary tenant is free to leave, the Seattle Center will become irrelevant and the public will STILL owe money on the bonds. With no revenue stream in place, general funds that could be use elsewhere will be used to pay off existing debt.
I’m not even to the fact the state would benefit from an estimated $45 million of potential state tax revenue if this proposal were to go through, or that statewide residents outside of King County would not be contributing a dime for this and would stand to gain millions in revenue towards the General Fund, or the fact that we are saying no to a $500 million dollar civic donation or that we have an opportunity to double a public investment. Legislature balking at this opportunity is a complete travesty and is unforgivable.
I can’t recall ever being this frustrated about something that is so far out of my control.
March 12th, 2008 at 8:45 am
This proposal was killed by Chopp and Gregoire, period. The rest of the legislature would have followed their lead.
I have been a lifelong democrat, but in state politics this is the straw that broke the camels back for me and I will be looking closely at who I vote for this fall. You combine this with the lack of leadership on the Viaduct, 520, Roads and Transit and everything else our State Gov’t has punted when the Dems have a supermajority in the Legislature and a Democrat in the Governor’s chair and enough is enough. When will we again have a State Gov’t that actually leads on the big issues?
March 12th, 2008 at 8:54 am
In all our frustration today don’t forget to send notes of encouragement to those who have lead for us on this issue. I just finished a note to Tim Ceis thanking him for his efforts and also a note to Steve Kelley thanking him for his support as well.
Tim.Ceis@seattle.gov
skelley@seattletimes.com
March 12th, 2008 at 8:57 am
Guys one thing I think we should consider, but would be boring as hell, is making sure that we have a steady attendance of Sonics fans at Seattle City Council events. The city councilmen and women conduct meetings around the community, in their chambers, etc. on a really regular basis. We don’t want to have to worry about the mayor looking over his shoulder at the council and appeasing them too.
I think the council will get VERY annoyed if we bombard them. That would be a negative. If somebody made a list of all the public events coming up and we say got a volunteer list and had 10 people in Sonics jerseys at each and ever one in the next 3 weeks I think it would really make a statement.
March 12th, 2008 at 8:58 am
Thanks Kingdome,
This isn’t just a Sonic issue anymore. The State has shown no leadership in anything, 520, viaduct, etc. I am glad this has come to a head and now we have the chance to try to reshape our state. I just called the Governor office and said that she won’t be getting my vote. It only rang 2 times before someone answer. The lady on the other end seem tired and didn’t really wanted to talk. Lets never forget even if we get to keep the Sonics. These people have to go.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:02 am
Brian is right - we need to change our focus now that it’s clear Gregoire and Chopp will not allow anything to get done in time.
It’s time to dump the ZEROES and get with the HEROES.
From now on, we need to be very passionate and very public with our support for Nickels, Ceis, and the City Council. They clearly have a stronger sense of purpose and resolve now that was completely lacking in Olympia.
Nickels has been on the right side with this effort ever since he called Bennett out publicly several months ago by saying “my door is always open to negotiate with the Sonics - but if all Mr. Bennett wants to discuss is how he can get out of the lease at Key Arena, then he should save his airfare and stay in OKC.”
Nickels can drive this process now but he needs our support and encouragement. How ironic - if he pulls this off, Nickels will end up looking like a civic hero, while Gregoire will almost certainly lose the election at the hands of the Sonics fans she alienated.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:11 am
FYI - I just received an email back from Tim Ceis - of all the notes I have sent in the last week he is only one that has responded - unbelievable!
Here is his short reply:
=======================================
Thanks for your support. We are not giving up. The city is working with investor group to examine all our other options.
Dear Mr. Ceis,
Even though I do not live in the City of Seattle anymore and am no longer one of your constituents I wanted to write a note thanking you for all of your hard work on the Key Arena issue and to ask you to not give up the fight. I am very frustrated by the lack of leaderhip shown in Olympia and have voiced my displeasure to the leadership and my local reps. However, I applaud the City of Seattle for taking up this issue in a very public way!
Thanks again,
Brett Tocco
Bellevue, WA.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:12 am
Where can we find a list of City Council events? I would be happy to attend a few in Sonics garb.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:15 am
since we are all basketball fans I thought everyone would enjoy this small distraction:
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=2095525081
March 12th, 2008 at 9:16 am
BTW - Guys Tim C is very busy right now and I know he appreciates the support. Loading his e-mailbox may not be the right method. The poor guy has a blackberry that is buzzing non-stop.
I bother him enough…
March 12th, 2008 at 9:19 am
Brian: that list of crucial pending legislation is hilarious, thanks for putting things in perspective.
just one point of clarification, however, on this: “S 5628, doing away with electoral college (which we as a state have no impact on — it is a federal issue)”
i know we don’t want to get political, but just so people understand: this is both a state and federal issue. it’s part of a movement already adopted by a few other states that would allocate the state’s electors according to the national popular vote. it would be contingent on enough other states doing the same to reach the number of electors required for the presidential election.
out of all those bills you listed this is the only one that is worth anything, but even so, it is hardly a pressing issue as there won’t be enough states doing the same to make a difference in 2008.
i’ll put away my soapbox now.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:20 am
http://www2.cityofseattle.net/council/EventSearchCouncil.asp
I would send a polite e-mail to each of their offices asking about public appearance schedule and open forums in the next 3 weeks. All the hearings are open to the public, They are just very boring. If people wanted to drop by in a group of 10, stay for 15 minutes in Sonics gear maybe with a sign or 2, then have lunch maybe that would make a difference. I’ll call and ask what the best way to keep council pressure would be.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:24 am
I wonder how Licata’s relationship with the mayor is as of the present. It has been rocky before. And its no secret that Chopp and Nickels aren’t buddies. Licata has historically been an ally of Chopp too. So the water needs to be tread very carefully in case there are any pre-arranged dealings between the City Council president and House Speaker.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:24 am
Anyone want to add to this?
(copy and paste and add to list!)
Support for the arena proposal:
Greg Nickles, (D, Mayor of Seattle)
Dino Rossi (R, candidate for Governor)
Sen. Steve Hobbs (D - 44 Dist., Lake Stevens)
Rep. Sam Hunt (D - 22 Dist., Olympia)
Rep. Doug Erickson (R - 42 Dist., Ferndale)
Against getting arena proposal done now:
Christine Gregoire (D, Governor)
Sen. Frank Chopp (D - 43 Dist., Seattle)
Sen. Darlene Fairley (D - 32 Dist., Lake Forest Park)
Rep. Jeff Morris (D - 40 Dist., Anacortes)
Rep. Roger Goodman (D - 45 Dist., Kirkland)
March 12th, 2008 at 9:25 am
If I was Balmer I would make the deal with the city and get that out of the way. Then I would have a press conference where I said that I would be financially supporting the opponents of all the state loser-slature members who bailed on the Sonics and their fans. Then I would say ‘the amount of my financial support will be a familiar number… $75m’.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Against:
Rep.Sharon Nelson (D - 34 Dist. Seattle)
March 12th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Is there a public disclosure process to find out who has given money to Christine Gregoire & Frank Chopp for “election funds”?
It would be too perfect to see a fat check from OKC.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Is there a public disclosure process to find out who has given money to Christine Gregoire & Frank Chopp for “election funds”?
It would be too perfect to see a fat check from OKC.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Support for the arena proposal:
Greg Nickles, (D, Mayor of Seattle)
Dino Rossi (R, candidate for Governor)
Sen. Steve Hobbs (D - 44 Dist., Lake Stevens)
Rep. Sam Hunt (D - 22 Dist., Olympia)
Rep. Doug Erickson (R - 42 Dist., Ferndale)
Against getting arena proposal done now:
Christine Gregoire (D, Governor)
Sen. Frank Chopp (D - 43 Dist., Seattle)
Sen. Darlene Fairley (D - 32 Dist., Lake Forest Park)
Rep. Jeff Morris (D - 40 Dist., Anacortes)
Rep. Roger Goodman (D - 45 Dist., Kirkland)
Rep. Sharon Nelson (D - 34 Dist. Seattle)
March 12th, 2008 at 9:29 am
“If I was Balmer I would make the deal with the city and get that out of the way. Then I would have a press conference where I said that I would be financially supporting the opponents of all the state loser-slature members who bailed on the Sonics and their fans. Then I would say ‘the amount of my financial support will be a familiar number… $75m’.”
Yeah, nothing like breaking a few campaign laws while you’re at it.
“Is there a public disclosure process to find out who has given money to Christine Gregoire & Frank Chopp for “election funds”?”
Simple websearch. One interesting thing, the Muckleshoots donate to everyone, on both sides of the aisle in nearly every district in the State.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:31 am
“If I was Balmer I would make the deal with the city and get that out of the way. Then I would have a press conference where I said that I would be financially supporting the opponents of all the state loser-slature members who bailed on the Sonics and their fans. Then I would say ‘the amount of my financial support will be a familiar number… $75m’.”
Something tells me saving the Sonics isn’t exactly Ballmer’s mountain to die on. I appreciate the groups generous offer and hopefully it won’t be wasted, but I think they are sincere in saying that they’ll move on if nothing goes forward.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:35 am
So let me get this straight. As I am sick and tired of wasting my time with efforts that clearly are going nowhere.
So it’s pretty safe to assume that nothing really can change the Governor’s mind or give her a sense of importance when it comes to the BoG vote, right? And if that’s the case, and she never did anything to get the bill looked at in Olympia this week, there’s zero reason to assume she would change her mind between now and April 10. I think that seems to be what people are now getting at.
So now we as Sonics fans are forced to cling to the hope that the City is able to figure something out last minute. Either that or some mystery person drops off a $75 million gift basket on Nickels front porch.
Seems to me that we are getting to desperate mode. Great. (sigh)
March 12th, 2008 at 9:37 am
Sonics Fans,
I know everyone is busy emailing and calling the Governor’s office and legislative hotline.
But something else that’s almost as important is to email or call in with your support for Deputy Mayor Ceis and Mayor Nickels.
They need to hear we’re fully supportive of their efforts and appreciate their continued push to make something happen.
The State ain’t gonna help us on this thing, so it’s up to the City to work with the Ballmer/Griffin group and move forward.
Thanks to everyone for all of the time spent on phone calls, emails, rally’s, plane banners, etc.
GO SONICS!!!!
March 12th, 2008 at 9:37 am
I’m going to predict what Dino would be saying if he were in office right now-
“I was against approving taxes to build the Mariners a palace, I was against the Seahawks taxes. Today, I’m going to tell you that I am not only the governor of Seattle, I am the governor of the whole state. My Democrat friends in the legislature don’t seem to be interested in reducing the tax burden on the good citizens of WA state. With the national economy the way it is, it is neither the time nor the place to be taking tax dollars out of the pockets of regular citizens and putting the money into the hands of private groups. I’m sure the city can work out a way to achieve full fincancing. They have the financial ability to carry this plan through. I will offer them whatever assistance I can, but I will not be proposing a special session to deal with special interests.”
March 12th, 2008 at 9:44 am
Prediction:
The City of Seattle will present a $225m proposal of Key Arena renovation to the NBA BOG.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:45 am
I called Patty Murray in Washington DC and asked her if she could do anything to help this matter. I doubt she could do anything but I wanted her to know how this thing is getting to be a real mess.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:46 am
I will make sure everyone in my family and all my friends know of this. I’ll have atleast 100 votes AGAINST Gregoire.
What an old hag.. Get her out and let someone relevant handle her job.
Bye Bye Gregoire.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:47 am
I’m off too Olympia. Have radio interview with Bill & Nancy on KOMO 1000 at 11:35. Wish me luck!
cheers
Speed
March 12th, 2008 at 9:47 am
Does anyone have Nickels/Cies email?
March 12th, 2008 at 9:48 am
“Does anyone have Nickels/Cies email?”
It’s been requested now three times to NOT bombard them with emails, please respect that.
Greg and Tim have precious little time to work on this and they’re already supporting your stance.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:51 am
Oh, so they do not want words of encouragement?
Fine by me. More time hammering John Mcgrath and my legislators.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:53 am
Good luck Speedy, LOVE the list of more important things Brian (that should get its own post), and John McGrath’s column is so misguided it’s comical.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:54 am
“Oh, so they do not want words of encouragement?”
I don’t think that they don’t want your words of encouragement but they’re being thanked enough for thier efforts by those that have written and have said they’ll continue to work towards a solution.
Wait till they’ve had time to work on things a bit then write them, the next couple days I’d think its better for them to spend the time working on proposals than reading 900 emails saying ‘thank you’.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:55 am
Otto,
Hammer your reps in Olympia and the Governor. The ball is in their court right now.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:57 am
“I’m going to predict what Dino would be saying if he were in office right now-
“I was against approving taxes to build the Mariners a palace, I was against the Seahawks taxes. Today, I’m going to tell you that I am not only the governor of Seattle, I am the governor of the whole state. My Democrat friends in the legislature don’t seem to be interested in reducing the tax burden on the good citizens of WA state. With the national economy the way it is, it is neither the time nor the place to be taking tax dollars out of the pockets of regular citizens and putting the money into the hands of private groups. I’m sure the city can work out a way to achieve full fincancing. They have the financial ability to carry this plan through. I will offer them whatever assistance I can, but I will not be proposing a special session to deal with special interests.” ”
That’s a pretty unfair statement.
Who knows what he “would be saying”. We do know what he “is” saying.
March 12th, 2008 at 9:59 am
I called the Mayor office and gave them my support. The gentleman I talked to said that the support has been about 50 percent for and against. He did say that he has gotten more yes today than before. Called the Mayor office and not email them.
March 12th, 2008 at 10:01 am
I couldn’t vote Rossi over Gregoire just based on this issue, and I doubt many other will either. I would need a better option first.
March 12th, 2008 at 10:02 am
Who is calling the mayor and saying not to support this?
I swear its like the people do not even understand the issue.
March 12th, 2008 at 10:06 am
“I called the Mayor office and gave them my support. The gentleman I talked to said that the support has been about 50 percent for and against. He did say that he has gotten more yes today than before. Called the Mayor office and not email them.”
Can you provide us with that number? I think we need to outnumber the naysayers with these phone calls. I know that they mayor is busy, but its not like he’s answering the phones…he’ll simply get a tally of who is calling in support and who isn’t. It would be good to show him that a majority of the callers are in support of this.
March 12th, 2008 at 10:07 am
“I couldn’t vote Rossi over Gregoire just based on this issue, and I doubt many other will either. I would need a better option first. ”
Are you kidding? Dino is a great option. This issue just further highlights how superior he is to the current Governor. Rossi balanced the state’s budget, Gregoire increased the state budget by 33% in just three years, which potentially puts us in a $2,500,000,000 hole when we do the budget next year.
You Gregoire weasels are not going to change our minds. If she does not do her job, we must do ours and vote her out of office!
March 12th, 2008 at 10:08 am
“I couldn’t vote Rossi over Gregoire just based on this issue, and I doubt many other will either.”
That is exactly what she is counting on, and that’s why she’s done nothing.
March 12th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Mayor’s office: 206-684-4000
I just called. They said the callers were predominantly anti-arena over the last couple days, but today they’ve gotten a surge of pro-arena calls.
March 12th, 2008 at 10:11 am
I couldn’t vote Rossi over Gregoire just based on this issue, and I doubt many other will either. I would need a better option first.
Yeah, I wouldn’t either, But if I was on the fence, and I needed one issue to send me one direction or another…
March 12th, 2008 at 10:12 am
How do naming rights for the stadium fit into the equation? Can that replace some of the 75 million from the state?
March 12th, 2008 at 10:15 am
“I couldn’t vote Rossi over Gregoire just based on this issue, and I doubt many other will either. I would need a better option first.
Yeah, I wouldn’t either, But if I was on the fence, and I needed one issue to send me one direction or another…”
Yeah, if Clay Bennett steals my team and converts me to a republican within two years time, well, let’s just say I couldn’t think of a more miserable ending to this story.
March 12th, 2008 at 10:16 am
you just pissed me off kingdome.any time you want to compare republicans and what a great job they’ve done well have at it.Why dont you go cozy up to rev.hutcherson.
But to more important things.House majority leader Lynn kessler
in responding to Dino Rossi’s support made the comment “They don’t even have a team”
Her email is:kessler.lynn@leg.wa.gov
let her have it as i did
March 12th, 2008 at 10:17 am
Scott… I would do it legally. Donating to people is not illegal. Donating max to every opponent is fine. With $75m I’d get to do it for a long time and to a huge amount of people.
Balloholic… I didn’t say Balmer should do it. I said if I I I was Balmer.
March 12th, 2008 at 10:20 am
My cube-mate just created these polls out of curiosity. I voted. If you want you can too.
http://www.polldaddy.com/p/411777/
http://www.polldaddy.com/p/411799/
http://www.polldaddy.com/p/411816/
March 12th, 2008 at 10:22 am
“I couldn’t vote Rossi over Gregoire just based on this issue, and I doubt many other will either. I would need a better option first.”
Governor’s a job solely about leadership, consider for me this issue to be nothing but a microcosim of her tenure. Can I guarantee that Rossi’s a better option, nope but can I say that I’d be happy with 4 more years of nothingness, absolutely not.
We’ve got a Governor who has a supermajority to do anything she damn well pleases and we don’t have a viaduct answer in place, we don’t have a 520 answer in place, the Sonics are on the verge of leaving, the Race track lobby that wanted to bring in 360 MILLION dollars of construction revenue wasn’t given the time of day.
I can’t see what exactly shes accomplished in the county that gave her the victory, so forgive me if my vote will go elsewhere. Not solely based on this issue, but her inactivity when shes holding all the cards really shines though.
March 12th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Do these anti arena people have ANY clue what they are talking about? The Seattle portion of the arena will come from fees associated with the new arena such as ticket sales. Key Arena needs to be renovated whether the Sonics are involved or not. Why not take the 150 million dollar handout from Ballmer’s group while we can? Otherwise Seattle has to come up with that money on its own. Al the anti-arena bandwagoners need to look at this rationally. This isn’t a subsidy for millionaires as you all seem to believe. Steve Ballmer is donating 150 million dollars to help Seattle rebuild Key Arena and Seattle’s portion of the renovation comes from ticket sales at the arena.
March 12th, 2008 at 10:24 am
I couldn’t vote Rossi over Gregoire just based on this issue, and I doubt many other will either. I would need a better option first.
I have absolutely no problem voting against Gregoire in the next election because of her inaction on this issue. I vote for and against people based on their stance on issues that are important to me.
In addition, she hasn’t shown me any significant leasership/ability to address the other pressing issues regarding this region any better than anyone else, so by default this issue becomes the difference maker in who I’ll vote for in November.
March 12th, 2008 at 10:27 am
Scott - couldn’t agree more. The Sonics issue is just the tip of the Iceburg for me (I voted for her in 2004 but it took me to the last day to make up my mind). On a lot of the big front and center issues she has failed to lead and this is with all the cards in her favor.
This would be like folding when you have a full house because there is a chance you might lose … the democrats control everything in this state and what has that done for us? The viaduct could come down in an earthquake (no plan), 520 is so bad a big windstorm might sink it (no plan), we fund education up the wazoo but it’s still not enough? It’s time for some accoutability … and this is from a lifelong democrat!
BTW, before I give off the wrong impression, I will still be voting for Ross Hunter who is a democrat - my frustration is with the leadership in Olympia and it’s not all about the Sonics.
March 12th, 2008 at 10:40 am
Sunday I have delegate “training”, I am an alternate, I’ll wear my Sonics hat, and discuss the situation with people that don’t “forget”, are active in the party, and live in Seattle.
I will make it my business to inform other party supporters.
“Kingdome” is correct, we need a list, and we need to act on it when they have events, when they have a rally, when they want to get elected, when they want something.
Seattle should pull in its arms, close its wallets to the state, if they feel that we can take care of things here ourselves, well, we can, but it should cost THEM. The revenue generated by King County is what it is, freaking huge.
March 12th, 2008 at 11:01 am
“Governor’s a job solely about leadership, consider for me this issue to be nothing but a microcosim of her tenure. Can I guarantee that Rossi’s a better option, nope but can I say that I’d be happy with 4 more years of nothingness, absolutely not.”
I respect your points Scott,
but can we all please keep this dialogue from turning into a ‘Who you need to vote for next time’ campaign, because that would be very irrational, very inappropriate for a sports-related community website, not to mention totally fucking stupid.
March 12th, 2008 at 11:05 am
not to mention totally fucking stupid.
Why is it stupid? I do agree that we need to make sure the discussion doesn’t turn into a political debate. But everyone has reasons on why they vote for someone. This a massive issue, that the leader of the state can have a direct and immediate impact. I would never tell anyone how to vote, or who to vote for, But I think as long as the dialogue doesn’t boil into the other platforms, I think its a legtimate topic (as long as it sticks to the arena issue)
March 12th, 2008 at 11:11 am
“Why is it stupid? I do agree that we need to make sure the discussion doesn’t turn into a political debate.”
Well, then you get my point. It’s not stupid to feel that this is important enough to sway your vote, it’s stupid to tell other people what their priorities should be in a setting such as this. That’s all.
March 12th, 2008 at 11:13 am
A lot of you guys don’t seem to get it.
As orindary Wast St. citizens, the only power we have is our vote. If we say “we really, really want you to do this, but if you don’t, it’s OK I’ll vote for you anyway”- then we’ve got nothing.
March 12th, 2008 at 11:18 am
This political partisan nonsense just might kill off SOS. This shit is ridiculous.
I don’t give a crap if somebody is a democrat, a republican, or a monkey. They are all politicians. They just wear different fancy make up to fool all you morons into siding with them. People who stick with their party regardless the issue are what make this country horrible.
My opinion on the Governor and other current officials in charge is that they are terrible. This issue is just one example of their ineffective leadership. Others have already pointed out other things like the viaduct and the freeways. I don’t care if its a dem, a repub, or an alien. Get these fools out of office.
March 12th, 2008 at 11:20 am
The thing is that when someone is campaigning, they have a different ability to make promises than when someone is in office.
My opinion is that I understand the reluctance of the legislature and governor to immediately make decisions on this stuff.
I compare the situation with this funding idea to the buyout option that Bennett offered the city. The city would have been out of its mind to even consider the buyout option for many reasons. One of the main reasons for not accepting it is that they put a timeline on it, and they said, “do it, or else.”
I am supportive of this arena. I wasn’t supportive of the 500 million dollar bridge to Bennett’s pockets. The legislature was correct to not consider that. Bennett was trying to hold a gun to their heads.
I am really disappointed that this issue is becoming a partisan issue. It shouldn’t be.
I’m curious to know if people think that bringing this up for a vote in the legislature would even be successful.
The other thing to consider is that there are probably reps who have bills that they’d probably like to see get passed. So, if the arena funding gets added to someone’s bill, it might cause their bill to fail.
March 12th, 2008 at 11:26 am
This is from the Seattlest. Another example of CLUELESS IN SEATTLE.
March 12, 2008
Rossi Supports Unnecessary Key Arena Remodel
Dino Rossi is savvy enough to know the state’s inability to broker a Key Arena remodel is the type of far-fetched, wedge issue just ripe for exploiting come November’s election. Considering the hotly contested runoff between him and Governor Gregoire several years ago, the Sonics impending departure is the perfect issue to highlight as an example of weak-kneed Democrats not taking care of business on Gregoire’s watch.
Of course, there is the fact Key Arena was just remodeled 13 years ago, it’s a fine place to watch a game as is, and the Sonics aren’t for sale or really interested in staying Seattle in the first place. Rossi knows it isn’t so much the details that matter, just the fact that all he has to do is blame the Democrats for not moving heaven and earth to keep the increasingly ridiculous NBA business model in town, and he instantly has a few thousand basketball meatheads in his corner.
This is the stuff of election year politicking and, if you aren’t nauseous, you aren’t paying attention.
Photograph by Jeff Croft
March 12th, 2008 at 11:30 am
There are a LOT of Democrats that voted for Rossi last election (my wife was one of them). Everyone just needs to do their homework before voting instead of just voting for one freaking party - whether its Democrat or Republican. Rossi has a history of being a Repub who worked with Democrats in order to get things DONE. This is not a democrat vs. republican thing - some of these comments have been totally uncalled for (come on markothenarko “cuddling up to rev. hutchinson”??.. what the heck - calm down - people have a right to vote who they want to and everyone in both parties is sick of our “do nothing” gov’t).
Unbelievable that we would have so many people opposed to this plan - obviously people are just fed up with safeco/qwest and have not actually taken the effort to read the details of this proposal. Basically the public funds are for Seattle Center, the amount for the stadium is from the balmer group.
March 12th, 2008 at 11:32 am
kill me now. flipping partisan politics are going to be the death of our team. I HATE people who allow themselves to get so caught up in that bull shit. I really hope those of you on here who fit that bill realize that you are just a pawn in your party’s greedy, dirty game. Gotta love politics.
March 12th, 2008 at 11:33 am
Honestly, I find the “Clueless” piece to be exactly what’s happening.
Other than the word “meathead,” the piece is pretty clearly how many residents will feel about this.
March 12th, 2008 at 11:39 am
I am emailing gov Gregoire that the reason I am not voting for her in Nov.is because she personally lied to me on Kuow radio
a few months ago.I was her 1st caller while she was on a flight from Seattle to Spokane or the opposite.Her last words to me were that she loved the sonics and would do “everything in my power to keep them here”.I wonder in what context she meant that.I guess it meant that if she didn’t have to do anythingand that it was all payed for by someone else than she would do everything in her power to save the sonics.
And Kingdome I respect all your thouhts but I don’t want to turn this into a political argument becaus that can really get me fired up.I just want to save the sonics.
March 12th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Yeah that is what kills me the most… at least some of the “anti” reps, even though ignorant on this proposal, have not hid it or lied about it. Those in office who have come out in the past few months as wanting to save the sonics and are now feeding us BS reasons and passing the buck have really got me angry. Please keep this list going till time to vote - anyone who said they were in favor of the sonics and now are waffling or passing the buck on this proposal will not get my vote.
I am not voting on “one issue” in this I simply refuse to vote for politicians that say one thing and then do the opposite as it shows a lot about the person. (LOL will I have no one at all to vote for if I don’t vote for politicians that say one thing and do another???)
March 12th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
but can we all please keep this dialogue from turning into a ‘Who you need to vote for next time’ campaign, because that would be very irrational, very inappropriate for a sports-related community website, not to mention totally fucking stupid.
- Scott’s points very neatly laid out and I would agree that voting against her soley for this reason would not be smart. Unfortunately, she has given us many reasons to feel that she lacks the leadership skills to get things done in this state. God forbid I am one of the people driving on the 520 Bridge or Viaduct when it collapses…
But don’t worry…telling all of us what is reasonable to discuss on this site is deinfate not totally fucking stupid… /sarcasm
March 12th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
You’re all wasting time with this nonsense. There’s work to do. Get on with it…
March 12th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
From my legislator today:
Thank you for contacting me about the latest news regarding the Sonics.
As you know there is a lot of information that has been coming out in
the past couple days as we are nearing the end of the legislative
session. From what I have seen so far, this is the most promising
proposal that has been made in the past couple years. The high amount
of private dollars that would be used to offset the pubic costs for a
renovation makes this proposal worthy of close examination.
I appreciate your strong, passionate support of this issue and I hope
resolution can be reached on the Sonics.
Troy Kelley
State Representative, 28th LD
March 12th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
As a conservative Republican, may I say ENOUGH with the Rossi/Gregoire stuff? Can this wait until the end of June, please…conservatives, liberals, and everyone between should be focused on one thing: fighting tooth and nail to keep the Sonics here. Period.
March 12th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
“but can we all please keep this dialogue from turning into a ‘Who you need to vote for next time’ campaign, because that would be very irrational, very inappropriate for a sports-related community website, not to mention totally fucking stupid.”
When you spend the hours and hours I’ve spent moderating this thing for hte last three years we’ll give you the right to talk about what is or is not appropriate.
Personally, If I want to make commentary on politicians I will, if I want to talk about snow in June I will, if I want to talk about how great of a GM Bill Bavasi is, I will (then I’ll read xteve’s email telling me what a moron I really am) but I’m glad you think its ‘totally fucking stupid’.
March 12th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
It seems the fans have been fighting tooth and nail for two years and their government has betrayed them.
Hopefully the city itself will pony up $75 mil. more and keep hope alive.
If that happens, Greg Nickels should supplant Gregoire in Olympia.
Either way, make sure Gregoire just signed her political death warrant. Same for Chopp.
It’s time to start supporting their political demise publicly.
They believe the silent majority support their actions. If they aren’t voted out as soon as is possible, they will have won this argument.
41 years will have proven as insignificant as they claim it is.
March 12th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
Kum by ya, come on sing. Kum by ya. Can’t we all get along? Hold hands and sing a song? Kum by ya. SAVE OUR SONICS….Kum by ya!!! Let’s sing it in a round. Liberals first and the conservatives come in on the second Kum by ya.
WE HAVE THE SAME GOAL!!!!!!!
Let the votes fall where they may in November. Go Sonics!!!
March 12th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
ahhh we are all just angry (and we have right to be) and our frustration comes out on the blog - I think we are pretty much all on the same page here regardless of party.
Better venting here than to my coworkers which are all sick of hearing it (but at least today some of them called and emailed their reps!).
LOL a coworker jokingly asked me about an hour ago “are you packing heat? If so I am staying as far away from you today as possible!”
March 12th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
http://kuow.org/DefaultProgram.asp?ID=14493
“Seattle residents will be getting a closer look at a proposal for a massive renovation of Seattle Center. The Century 21 Committee unveiled its 650 million dollar Master Plan yesterday. KUOW’s Deborah Wang has more.”
What?! $650m!!? I have no idea what this means to the Key Arena renovation plan.
March 12th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
It’s sad that in the end partisan politics is going to kill the Sonics, of course, it was partisan politics to blame all along.
This is why America sucks.
Instead of being independent and exploring issues before people vote, they simply check red or blue — 90% based on what they were told when they were raised — there’s no independent spirit or thought left.
Anyone who would vote for a person based on party affiliation is a lemming and coward and they deserve to be run over by our corrupt government.
Until people start to realize that all polticians are the same, and that their way of running our government is not only counter-productive, but immoral, corrupt, and self-serving, then we will continue to feel cheated and pissed on from above.
Quit voting red and blue.
Start voting issues.
If you’ve spent the better part of two years worried about the Sonics, you should realize just how disrespected you are by your government in Washington.
Vote out Gregoire.
Vote out Fank Chopp.
Vote out Lisa Brown.
If you aren’t heard with your vote, you aren’t heard at all, and these people will continue to ruin your state.
March 12th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Can somebody take my above post out of moderation!?
March 12th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Well said 12!
March 12th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Yeah, the vote’s not until November, though, and this isn’t over yet. To quote Sen. John Blutarsky: “Nothing is over until we say it is.”
March 12th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
Right on Troy Kelley. At least there are a handful of legislators who give a crap to actually look at the proposal.
The only thing that is keeping me from getting insanely negative right now is reading the TIME blog. Great stuff! I just sent a link to the guys at deadspin as well as Bill Simmons. Hopefully they can give it a bit more exposure.
March 12th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Regardless of whether we stay or move, were proving a point to america and the NBA. Making a stand for our team in a situation like this will prevent anything like this from happening in other towns, at least I hope.
We cant let our spirit die!
March 12th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
“To quote Sen. John Blutarsky: “Nothing is over until we say it is.””
That’s right!
Was is over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Hell No! And it ain’t over now!
LET’S DO IT!!!!!!!!!
March 12th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
That’s right!
Was is over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
- Hmmm, why do I feel like I am at a Mariner game right now…now I just need the sign to tell me I should be clapping my hands and everything will make sense..
March 12th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Guess I’m no longer friendly with the governor…Its hard not to speak your mind sometimes…
From the Seattle-PI
“We’ve just been floored by the lack of leadership,” Robinson said. “We can’t find a single person in Olympia who says this is a bad deal. But we also can’t find political leadership willing to consider a good deal. So it’s very disappointing. Sports fans really felt Gregoire was an ally in this issue, but she either couldn’t or wouldn’t take a stand.”
March 12th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
LOL K-man is quoting a movie. What is funny is I have seen that movie quoted on other blogs and it always creates mayhem so I just thought it should be known its a joke (err at least I assume he is doing to quote a movie LOL)
March 12th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Called the hotline from Boise. I got in right away. I asked if I could leave a message from out of state and the guy was really nice and took my address and asked, “Is this to save the Sonics?” I said yes and that the governor’s leadership is desperately needed in this issue before the ned of the session or to call a special session.
Just trying to to my part.
March 12th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Brian,
Great quote! I know some people don’t believe in telling it like it is (especially politicians). But this needed to be said.
Nice work, bro!!!
March 12th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Maybe a movie, maybe (like myk said) a Mariners game. They usually play it when the M’s are down going into the bottom of the 9th. Kind of feels that way here.
March 12th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
That thread on the Time website with questions for Stern is awesome! The show of support from the local fanbase is outstanding and many NBA fans from other cities have shown their support.
I had to put my 2 cents in and for whatever juvenile reason I feel a little bit better getting that off my chest:
It looks like you and Clay were right based on the responses in this thread. No one cares about the Sonics in Seattle and NBA fans in general aren’t sympathetic to Seattle’s plight. You really read the situation well.
=========================================
Here is my question. With the court case looming in June (during the NBA finals - won’t that be grand!) how does it make you feel when one of your owners is arguing in federal court that the NBA team leaving a city will have no financial impact on that city and then makes the reverse argument about what an economic boon an arena will be for the city.
Seems a bit contradictory.
Do you really want one of yoru owners under oath in federal court under cross-examination giving testimony that the NBA brings no economic value to the city? That can’t be good for the league.
March 12th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
New article that Brian referenced:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/354732_arena13.html
March 12th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
“Personally, If I want to make commentary on politicians I will, if I want to talk about snow in June I will, if I want to talk about how great of a GM Bill Bavasi is, I will (then I’ll read xteve’s email telling me what a moron I really am) but I’m glad you think its ‘totally fucking stupid’.”
I think it’s as bad of a decision as anyone to turn down the money, but it sucks to see my favorite forum disintegrate into a mess of overly-emotional political BS. Don’t act like there aren’t things that shouldn’t be discussed here, hell , AK was banned for insulting people in a way that I found totally acceptable and pretty hilarious for a sports forum, apparently that wasn’t the case with everyone.
I wasn’t saying that you’re wrong, only trying to douse the proverbial flames. I mean, look at all the stimulating conversation. This might as well be the political inverse of the SoundOff, it’s the same type of rhetoric. Whatever, follow the politician that brings you the Sonics on a platter, that’s always the best way to go!
March 12th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
LOL K-man is quoting a movie. What is funny is I have seen that movie quoted on other blogs and it always creates mayhem so I just thought it should be known its a joke (err at least I assume he is doing to quote a movie LOL)
- Despite the fact I find the movie rather overrated it seems like there aren’t many people out there who dont know who John Blutarsky is…he’s at this point a movie icon.
March 12th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
I wasn’t saying that you’re wrong, only trying to douse the proverbial flames. I mean, look at all the stimulating conversation. This might as well be the political inverse of the SoundOff, it’s the same type of rhetoric. Whatever, follow the politician that brings you the Sonics on a platter, that’s always the best way to go!
- Hmmm, I guess the fact that Scott listed about 10 other things that have shown her lack of leadership…
…and the fact that at least one person (me) has said that they are more disappointed in the fact that she didn’t try and bring the bill for a vote, which is not the same as saying that the legislature had to pass it…just show the leadership to have an issue that is obviously important to the Region voted upon
…is enough fo you to say what you said in the last sentence…I find this really odd (but what is new??)
March 12th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Yes! It ain’t over until we say its over. What we need is a bigger, badder, rally. The mother of all rallys…..on the governors door step.
March 12th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Myk, you should really know by now not to try to single me out. Piggy backing on what Scott said isn’t going to stop me from ripping you to pieces in any argument. I don’t even understand what retarded point you’re trying to make, but I’ll sum mine up:
As much as I love the Seattle Sonics, it is IMO really stupid to form a personal political ideology based on whether or not a politician says they’ll support my team. Hell, anyone who trusts the words of one politician over the actions of another is incredible naive IMO.
Furthermore, I think it’s stupid to try to convince people in a sports forum who they should be voting for, because that’s none of your damn business. We’re all Sonics fans, just like Dork said.
March 12th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
I just got a voicemail from Speedcat. He wanted me to let everyone know that the banner got some great media coverage today. Apparently Q-13 and KING 5 got footage of the banner and he had interviews with both. He’ll be on the news tonight and he wanted me to ask if anyone could record the news on channels 5 and 13 tonight to preserve it for posterity. Thanks guys.
March 12th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Just got this from my legislator, 5 minutes ago…see the part about the airplane banner….
“Derek,
Thank you for your email. As you might imagine we have had several conversations the past couple of days, the latest being this AM with House leadership, in an attempt to find a solution.
This is the latest thinking and I believe represents where we most likely will end up as this session of the legislature comes to a close tomorrow, 3/13/08.
*In conversations with members it is not clear we could actually get the votes necessary to pass a bill, and that could undermine the position taken by the new ownership group with the NBA.
*Because the city of Seattle owns Key Arena, the city can and should provide the $75 million within the very ample budget suggested by the Mayor for renovation of the Seattle Center. They can do this now without any of the time constraints faced by the legislature.
*The legislature will return in January and put together a long range funding plan for all of our stadiums and art organizations using the sources currently available, restaurant tax, rental tax, and hotel/motel tax. That proposal could include provisions that give Seattle credit or spending its own money on the facility.
*These sources are currently used to maintain existing facilities and to some degree represent a sales tax rebate to King County that would otherwise go to the state general fund.
*There are several competing interests vying for a slice of the revenue from those taxing sources including Husky Stadium, art organizations, continued maintenance of SAFECO and Qwest fields, and it is the legislature’s responsibility to determine how to allocate them.
*So far no proponent has proposed any actual bill language for the legislature to consider. At this stage, a plane flying around with a “Save Our Sonics” banner is fine, but it would be much more helpful to actually drop a bill we could respond too.
*It is not uncommon for proponents of a bill to draft the actual language (usually their attorney does it) and then for the legislature to review and change it if necessary. We are puzzled that no bill has been forthcoming especially given the tight schedule we are on.
Also, I have attached the letter from the Speaker, Majority Leader, and the Governor to Seattle and King County sent the same day they received the request from the new ownership group. The letter outlines the commitment the state is pledging in our Capital Budget which we will pass tomorrow. It represents a commitment to work toward a long term solution to the myriad of requests we have received for use of the local taxing authority.
Once again, thank you for contacting me regarding this very difficult issue. I would be happy to discuss this issue further when I return home after session ends tomorrow.
Regards,
Larry
Larry Springer
45th District State Representative
Olympia Office: (360) 786-7822
Toll-Free Message Hotline: 1-800-562-6000″
March 12th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
With regard to what Rep. Springer said in the above reply, and what has been suggsted in the past (total lack of time left notwithstanding)…..IS there any way any of us could find some help to draft a bill like….now? Haha
March 12th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Enough of the “no bill” crap. Is there a bill or not?
If there is a bill then is it being held up by Chopp? If so then he needs to go.
If there is a bill and they all know it then they all need to called out for lying and also go.
If there is no bill then why the hell hasn’t someone presented one to these losers?
March 12th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
*There are several competing interests vying for a slice of the revenue from those taxing sources including Husky Stadium, art organizations, continued maintenance of SAFECO and Qwest fields, and it is the legislature’s responsibility to determine how to allocate them.”
I have been following this issue, while not commenting, but this is interesting. “continued maintenance of Safeco and Qwest fields.”
The M’s came out publicly a couple of years ago against using the stadium taxes for KeyArena or any new Sonics arena. The M’s have their hooks into those taxes, and they don’t want anyone else to get them. Anyone else suspect the M’s and Seahawks have been working behind the scenes to make sure those stadium taxes are not committed to anything else, so they can’t dip into them again to remodel Safeco and Qwest Fields?
March 12th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
That may not be clear. I mean, the M’s and Seahawks do not want those stadium taxes committed to any other use, because the M’s and Seahawks want to renew those taxes to improve or remodel Safeco Field and Qwest Field when those stadiums are 15 or 20 years old. I suspect the M’s and Hawks have been quietly working behind the scenes in Olympia to prevent those taxes from being committed to KeyArena.
March 12th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Ok, here’s another creative outlet for funding. Metered parking. The City reserves the right on all metered spaces to charge as they see fit. There could be an escalation of parking fees, in addition to a more creative Seattle Center parking revenue that goes beyond the current proposed use-taxes. And while they won’t ask more money from the investors, if the gap is small enough, the group may just angel out the difference.
March 12th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Trying to think outside the box a bit here - anyone think this idea is worth developing??????
Question: Does the State collect sales tax on the purchase of Soncis tickets? (I assume so)
Creative Thought: If so - maybe Ballmer could call out the governor after session closes and say….
“I want to request that the state waive sales tax on Sonic Games for ______ years to help us finacially as we save this business and franchise for Seattle & the state of Washington. This is a way you could help us finacially as we renovate the Key arena.
You have until April 10 to either fund the 75 million as orginally requested or approve this sales tax waiver.
If you do nothing we will walk away &….
A. No $150 million gift to help renovate the Key arena & enhance the Seattle center environment.
b. No more Sonics in seattle
(And no sales tax on tickets either way - you can lose the sales tax money with the Sonics in OKC or you can lose the sales tax money with the Sonics in Seattle)
Maybe tie this into a waiving of sales tax costs and permit fees associated with the arena remodel?
“Yo - Governor - We are stepping up - the City of Seattle is stepping up - we want & need the state to partner with us at some level. The ball is now in your court - Your choice. Make it happen or tell us you don’t care - but please do not tell us you don’t have time.”
March 12th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
I think any idea that could fall within the City’s realm could be something to at least be forwarded to them…..(i.e. the meter idea). The situation is probably such that they’d look at ‘em
March 12th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
“Question: Does the State collect sales tax on the purchase of Soncis tickets? (I assume so)”
I have heard otherwise. But that’s just Soundoff Apostle’s drivel.
March 12th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
I have been sick of the Mariners for years now. If they are in fact working behind the scenes to keep the Sonics out of the tax then I am done with them forever. The Mariners are already the most profitable team in baseball according to Forbes, yet they still can’t bring in crap for talent and now they could be helping the Sonics leave town? Not to mention the owner of the Mariners hasn’t been to a game in his life. I still don’t see why Seattle is so giddy about that garbage franchise.
Sorry, long rant. Shouldn’t the 225 million the city and owners have be enough for a Key renovation? OKC got off with 100 million on the Ford Center and 21 million for a practice facility. 225 should be awesome here. Then again, we are talking about Dictator Stern…. He’s going to have an incredible influence on the BOG I’m sure.
March 12th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
As much as I love the Seattle Sonics, it is IMO really stupid to form a personal political ideology based on whether or not a politician says they’ll support my team. Hell, anyone who trusts the words of one politician over the actions of another is incredible naive IMO.
- Ya it is really stupid since your arguments are always so well fleshed out…as I have pointed out a couple of times now. People have given many NON-SPORTS related reasons for not voting for Gregoire. This is just another example (and at this point much more close to home) of her lack of leadership in getting things done during her tenure. That you don’t grasp this is sad…
Furthermore, I think it’s stupid to try to convince people in a sports forum who they should be voting for, because that’s none of your damn business. We’re all Sonics fans, just like Dork said.
- Hmmm, so when someone says this is the last straw I am voting for Rossi you take that as someone telling you who to vote for…interesting line of thinking there (as usual)
March 12th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Those soundoff guys are morons. All they do is sit at their computer and wait for something on the P.I. that they can bash. These are backwards thinking, close minded tools. I can’t stand the PI Soundoff.
March 12th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
*These sources are currently used to maintain existing facilities and to some degree represent a sales tax rebate to King County that would otherwise go to the state general fund.
- How exactly is this in someways a rebate to King County that would otherwise go to the state general fund? If King County (and the restaruant association) did not authorize this tax then it wouldn’t exist. What exactly does this tax have to do with the general fund…?
That may not be clear. I mean, the M’s and Seahawks do not want those stadium taxes committed to any other use, because the M’s and Seahawks want to renew those taxes to improve or remodel Safeco Field and Qwest Field when those stadiums are 15 or 20 years old. I suspect the M’s and Hawks have been quietly working behind the scenes in Olympia to prevent those taxes from being committed to KeyArena.
- I definately agree with this line of thinking…its not even just the tax funds. They’d love to have one less entertainment resource to compete with to sell tickets.
March 12th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Myk why don’t you come join me on the SoundOff and try making a real argument. If you’re so educated about what’s really going on, then put it to good use. And BTW, just telling people “you don’t really know what’s going on” isn’t an argument. Unlike your earlier posts on there, you’ll have to employ a little bit of logic.
March 12th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
PI SoundOff:
http://tinyurl.com/2mkj5j
March 12th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Mr. Ceis,
Thank you for your continued efforts in the KeyArena / Seattle Center renovation project. I understand that without Legislative authorization, there is a $75 million gap in funds at the present. If I may suggest some means of bridging the gap, the City has full ownership of parking meters on the streets. Can the rates be raised with the percentage difference being earmarked for the project? Likewise, in addition to proposed use-taxes, can Seattle Center parking fares be graduated as a revenue stream as well? Can any voluntary ordinance be passed amongst the local F&B establishments near the Center? The establishments that desire the team’s presence can sign up for a small 2 or 3% surcharge on their receipts to help add. Last, but not least, naming rights have not been discussed up until this point. Did the ownership group deal with that amongst themselves to arrive at their $150 million number or is there a possibility of use of that source? A city such as Seattle can net $100 million at least with the local companies.
Again, thank you for support
Regards,
March 12th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
“Bottom line: IF the NBA turns it back on me, I think Seattle City Attorney’s should say F’U to the possibility of a new team and go for the jugular. I will want to permanently revel in the satisfaction of knowing that Seattle aired the dirty laundry of a league that doesn’t care about the fans.”
bingo, exactly how i feel. lets fuck this league up permenantly and force the BOG to kick stern out, they have the power, and hes screwing their league and investments. DOWN WITH DAVID THE ASSHOLE STERN.
March 12th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
chncasper generally the county can do what it want with taxes it is already authorized to levy without state involvement.
This redirection of tax is a exception where the county does need state authorization.
I assume the county could give other taxes to this cause of upgrade the Key but haven’t heard that discussed.
(Or if they didn’t want direct involvement perhaps they shoulder more of some other expense to free up city money, in a manner similar to what Mr. Baker has suggested the state could do for the city.)
Matthew, I have not seen any detail on how the city will finance the work in Seattle Center plan other than they “hope” to get 50% from private sector. They may will intend to use some general fund revenue (don’t know how much). There was a hint that much of the project will be put on the shelf for possible future action and that the fall Legacy Levy will be for just a fraction of the of it or might not happen at all. Those decisions might come next month.
March 12th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
I agree. If the Sonics leave then I don’t want anything to do with the NBA anymore. I don’t want an expansion, Sonics or not, I don’t want a team to relocate here. I want the NBA to get its stuff together, fire Stern, then come talk to Seattle.
We are NOT going to take some half assed attempt to give us a new team. That is a joke in my eyes. We are SEATTLE Supersonics fans. If the league cares more about the feelings of a few millionaires and billionaires rather than that of the fans and cities that support them, then I don’t want Seattle to be a part of it.
Here’s to hoping we save our team. Otherwise the NBA will D.O.A. if they want to come back again.
March 12th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
“- How exactly is this in someways a rebate to King County that would otherwise go to the state general fund? If King County (and the restaruant association) did not authorize this tax then it wouldn’t exist. What exactly does this tax have to do with the general fund…?”
Ross Hunter did mention something either about a clause calling for additional matching from the general fund, or its not a 100% earmark.
March 12th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Laporbo there is no official “bill”. It was too late to drop one and pass it without suspending the rules.
There is “draft language” that could be inserted into another bill, especially the budget bill.
The city and investors apparently have entirely dealt with legislative leadership and the Governor trying to get their support to probably just insert the language in another bill.
The call to see a bill by members is something of a red herring. They haven’t seen one because the leadership didnt support letting them see a separate bill or letting them officially see the language as an amendment to an existing bill. Depending of how much you believe them it appears that the legislative leadership essentially cut them out of the process just as the city and the investors did in their approach.
But when they demand stuff, they can usually get it.
If the city had gotten a placeholder bill filed before cutoffs in the normal process then legislators would have “a bill” that could have been modified and folks could have called for a vote on. But that would probably have gone like last session unless the city and the investors mounted a better lobbying campaign of rank and members than Bennett did. But they choose not to do that and hope to convince the skeptical and hard to convince leaders that turned down the last 3 proposals. I think the city and investors
gambled on a risky late strategy. Maybe the regular process would have had the same result but if they could have acted quicker under the normal process then there would have been less power to the ‘it’s late” argument.
March 12th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
“That may not be clear. I mean, the M’s and Seahawks do not want those stadium taxes committed to any other use, because the M’s and Seahawks want to renew those taxes to improve or remodel Safeco Field and Qwest Field when those stadiums are 15 or 20 years old. I suspect the M’s and Hawks have been quietly working behind the scenes in Olympia to prevent those taxes from being committed to KeyArena. ”
That doesn’t make any sense … the taxes are set to expire well before the leases on the facilities are up, and the teams (well the Ms anyways, not sure about teh Hawks) bill the PFD for all the improvements anyways.
It’s far more likely that the majority in Olympia want to use those stadia taxes to plug budget holes or throw away at some boondoggle or another as they did with the state’s tobacco settlement money and God knows what else…when I moved here in 89-90 it was all about a 3rd runway at Sea-tac and a monorail for the west side transit corridor … almost 20 years down the line those idiots have spent billions studying both those things and this region still has neither one.
I’m simply too tired at this point to argue with the same wastes of cyberspace on the P-U soundoffs. They’re flat-earthers as far as I’m concerned. They live in their own little self-centric la-la dreamworlds and no amount of rational discourse or facts will ever get them to change their minds.
It is ludicrous beyond belief and personally disgusting to me that anyone in public office actually uses that forum as a sounding board.
March 12th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
The investors pledge of $150 million came 3 days after the normal deadline for passing bills out of at least one chamber.
March 12th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
“I’m simply too tired at this point to argue with the same wastes of cyberspace on the P-U soundoffs. They’re flat-earthers as far as I’m concerned. They live in their own little self-centric la-la dreamworlds and no amount of rational discourse or facts will ever get them to change their minds.
It is ludicrous beyond belief and personally disgusting to me that anyone in public office actually uses that forum as a sounding board.”
I agree with all that, the SoundOff is lame. Unfortunately it’s not the same five people visiting the forum and reading the posts, it’s just the same five people posting. Those guys post so much bogus information that it’s definitely worth taking a few minutes out of your day to rip em for the public good.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
In last session the Bennett bill had both a local option sales tax and a sales tax rebate involved.
I think this year’s $75 million was local option.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Can someone record channels 5, 7, 13, and 10(?) for news coverage of the airplane banner tonight?
thanks!
March 12th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
I know many here do not look at this as I do…. but I join those who say…. If the current Sonics team is moved to OKC I will be done with the NBA forever. Period. No transfer of another team or expansion team. I simply would not be interested in participating in or supporting a league that would demostrate such a level of corruption and lack of integrity. I’d feel like I’ve got better things to do.
My guess is also - if the Sonics move the NBA never comes back for at least 20+ years or maybe never. The scars & wounds would run too deep.
So many fans would feel burned so bad we’d just want to say to the NBA - “No Way - Never Again - Screw you”.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
A I wrote above, I feel the same way JJ. The only thing that could make a difference is if a new comish comes to the NBA and he comes forward and acknowledges that Stern ripped us off and treated us like crap.
But right now, if the Sonics leave then the NBA just lost the 12th largest market for a LONG time.
March 12th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
ive said this a few times before, and a few of you are picking up on it, if we want the sonics to stay then stern must go. now i seriously dont want to undermine anything brian, steve and the others have done, but i really feel that no matter what is done the sonics are gone purely because of the asshole commish. and one of the messages on the times page is correct, this is just the tip of the iceberg, i now see that the pacers might be up for sale too, so how long till indy has no team???? whos next??? the kings? magic? rockets? nuggets? it is only a matter of time until dictator stern pulls this off again in another city. interesting little story for you too: ive been a sonics fan for 14 years, and i only own 2 items of sonics gear, it is impossible to get any sonics stuff in australia, and in fact im still waiting for my ray allen sonics jersey to be delivered through a local import sporting goods store, yet despite this i have worshipped the sonics and blindely followed the NBA. no more if the sonics go, ive been treated like a lepper for 14 years by stern, now hes kicking me while im down. i feel so appreciated by the NBA.
March 12th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
For the record, anyone know what it takes to “impeach” a commissioner? Special BoG session and majority vote?
March 12th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Q: For the record, anyone know what it takes to “impeach” a commissioner? Special BoG session and majority vote?
A: Ashley Dupre
sorry sorry
March 12th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Laporbo the draft language is available off the Mayor’s homepage
http://www.seattle.gov/mayor/
March 12th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
Kdizzle… the owners can fire him anytime they want is my guess. But it is all up to the owners I think.
And even if none of the Seattle/OKC mess was happening… Stern job performance has been going downhill for years.
- Bad TV Ratings
- Arrogant Attiude all the time
- Lousy CBA with the players union with terrible guarenteed contracts that go for too long - part of a “Broken Economic Model”
- Team like Spurs can’t make money while selling out & winning championships - and they cry for millions in public money for facility improvements 5 years after moving into an arena.
- Terrible response to the suns/Spurs suspension Playoff mess last season
- Attendance #’s are BS - several cities arena’s are 1/2 full at best
- Referee & Tim D. scandal
- Terrible decisions to move teams to Memphis & N.O. - probably a mistake to go to Charolotte too but that may eventurally work. The Hornets to NO was a bad decision even before Katrina - that franchise will not make it long-term in NO & Stern had a tough situation but sending them back I think will prove to be a mistake.
- Did I mention he always comes off as an arrogant and condescending person who lives in denial about the leagues problems?
March 12th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Eric… I agree…
I really think if the Soncis move to OKC they will likely NEVER be back - mainly because the fans won’t want them. The wound will last a long time - at least a generation.
Go to LA now & no one cares about bringing back an NFL team - they learn to live without it and kind of take pride in saying: “Screw the NFL - We’re bigger than the NFL - We don’t need the F’ing NFL”
That kind of attitude is what I would expect will develop in seattle if Clay takes the team to OKC.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:51 am
tlk, pressure may mount on Stern but it may be a little while before the climate is really ripe for that push. I hear some upside news on TV ratings and the top half of teams are selling tickets faster this year.
If however the problems remain and get bigger in a year or two he might face more owner concern. But at most I think we might see a refusal to renew him for another contract rather than firing and perhaps pressure to delegate more and maybe recede some from public view. Unlikely.
At this point he is still the dictator and the chance of an inside coup is pretty low.
March 13th, 2008 at 11:54 am
The chances of staging a public revolt may be pretty good but the chance of succeeding that way seem low. It could cost them some but I don’t know if it brings about positive change.
Still that option is out there along with the tune them out option.
June 12th, 2008 at 4:13 am
Tom
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