Per Pelton.
Bummer for Gelly.
Just say no to Gerald “Sometimes Mistaken For An NBA Player” Green.
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March 20th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
It’s a virtual lock that Mike Wilks probably gets signed for the remainder of the year.
March 20th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Bummer.
Jelly man seems like he could be a good rotation player if he could only get that one chance.
March 20th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
That’s a bad break for Jelly. I imagine he’ll head back to France after this. Never really was given a fair shot from the Sonics and now a torn ACL with an expiring contract.
Bummer…..hope it all works out for him at some point.
March 20th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
dang - poor guy. Gelly was the most fluid Sonic on the floor this year.
NO GERALD GREEN!!!
March 20th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
why do they have to sign anybody?
How many games did he just sit while the Wally got a chance to show, uh, trade value.
How many games do you think are left?
Keep Wilks, run Watson as the backup sg.
March 20th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Geez
It’s deja vue all over again.
March 20th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
too bad for Gelly, I thought he help take the pt at backup sg next year and allow for Wilkins to go.
March 20th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Makes me sick to my stomach. Man I hope he recovers fast and gets a real chance with a real team.
March 20th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
Bad news for Gelly, but its good for Mike Wilks and young players like Durant, Green and Mo Sene. Go Sonics!!!
March 20th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Gelabale needs to rehab and strengthen his entire body to make a substantial run in the NBA.
March 20th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
Poor Gelly.
March 20th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
I say sign Gerald Green. Why not? If anything he’ll make us lose more games and get us that much closer to Beasly.
I think we’ll be seeing much more of an Earl/Luke/Durant combo in the backcourt
March 20th, 2008 at 7:06 pm
I guess not good news for mike wilks as well, per E.Williams TNT
http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/sonics/2008/03/20/gelabale_tears_acl
“Mike Wilks came to the end of his second, 10-day contract and was not resigned, so Seattle coach P.J. Carlesimo said the team could pick up a swingman or or big man to help fill in for the injured players.”
March 20th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
Tough news for Gelly. Wish for a good recovery.
If they sign a wing Dahntay Jones is another name that might be alright. Plays pretty good D.
Almost a 14 PER this season, career best on that and a lot of individual stats. Got to FT line like crazy this year.
Or a 3 pt shooter would be useful.
March 20th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
Enter the Adrian Griffin evaluation period.
March 20th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
there is a guy named Ballaholic that is willing to give his left nut to be an NBA benchwarmer.
Dahntay Jones would be okay
I will guess that a D-league superstar will get the nod.
March 20th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
I didn’t care for Gerald Green’s Slam Dunk COntest display, but his point was how much stronger he feels after his leg surgery. I don’t like his antics on the court, but right now he’s like a lottery pick floating around waivers….
March 20th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
Too bad Presti didn’t sign Flip as he scored 22 points last night. Could PJ and Green coexist?
March 20th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
I meant Gerald Green and PJ as their alpha-male personalities might not mesh.
Jeff Green was awesome last game and his potential seems on the same chart as Durant’s.
March 20th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
Presti has options
PG Barrett,
big Elton Brown,
wing Kasib Powell, Marcus Williams, Langford, Farmer, etc.
or doing nothing.
Wilkins 3rd string PG for the moment.
March 20th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Griffin could sop up some minutes but they sure weren’t going his way til now. Maybe he adds a bit to the defense if they want to try. I had assumed he was going to get released before next season taking advantage of his partial guarantee but give him a look.
March 20th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
Gerald Green has a beautiful looking shooting stroke; the issue is that his shots don’t….often go into the basket.
How about Will Conroy for the third-string PG position? Why not give a local guy some money before the season ends?
March 20th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
Don’t forget about Weaver during the draft.
Sene about to show his game and dominate the paint like Mutumbo’s son.
March 20th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
I didnt realize Conroy was back from europe.
I’d be curious to see what he could do.
March 20th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
I’m currently out of the country..
what’s wit’these Gerald Green’s rumor?
I thought he is with the Wolves? What?
March 20th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
Dick Tate Says:
“Enter the Adrian Griffin evaluation period.”
Classic - wish I’d thought of it!
March 20th, 2008 at 10:56 pm
Maybe they should sign Steve Schefler to a 10-Day…….
March 20th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
Response from the Seattle City Council President:
“Hello and thank you for your email about keeping the Sonics and Key Arena.
I have received a great number of messages on the subject, some asking that we do everything possible to keep the Sonics in Seattle and some opposing such efforts as a subsidy to a private business. The stakes are high and I assure you that the significance of this issue is not lost on any of the Council members.
Here’s the quick update on where things stand.
As you likely know, a group of Seattle area investors has offered to purchase the Sonics, or one of the other teams looking for a new home (Memphis and New Orleans). The offer also includes $150 million of the estimated $300 million cost of renovating Key Arena and the surrounding area required to meet the NBA’s criteria and pay off the remaining debt from the 1994 renovation. This proposal would require an additional $150 million in the form of matching commitments by the state and City of $75 million apiece.
The local investors have stated that this offer expires on April 11. Because the offer was made near the end of the legislative session, state legislators indicated that they needed to have more time to evaluate it, and could not act until 2009. While the City may be able to justify the proposed $75 million investment based on hard data that it would be in the best financial interest of Seattle taxpayers, moving forward is dependent on the state.
Initiative 91, which was approved by 74% of Seattle voters, requires that the City base any decision to invest in Key Arena on an analysis of its cost effectiveness to taxpayers – that there will be fair return for any dollars spent for this purpose. That is the legal basis on which the City must determine whether to participate in a proposed Key Arena renovation.
To date, the Council has not received an analysis of the proposed investment from the Executive. The Council is therefore precluded, by law, from making such a financial commitment. Furthermore, even if this financial plan is approved, it would not guarantee the Sonics presence in Seattle beyond 2010. Currently the issue of the Key Arena lease is in litigation, and even if that litigation is successful, the decision of whether the team stays will ultimately be determined by the team’s Oklahoma based ownership.
Above all, I believe it is important that the City act responsibly to protect taxpayers. I-91 sets the standard to determine whether and how we invest in a relationship with a sports franchise. This new proposal does offer the possibility of a win-win solution, but even following a favorable financial analysis, only state action could clear the way for the deal to come together.
I can assure you that the City Council will do everything possible to work out a solution for the Sonics and Key Arena that is consistent with legal requirements and the best financial interests of our taxpayers and sports fans.
Thank you for contacting my office.
Sincerely,
Richard Conlin
Seattle City Council President
P.S. Below, I’ve included a little more background on the issue for your edification.
1. In 1994, City of Seattle agreed to renovate Key Arena at a cost of some $74 million in 1994 in partnership with the Seattle Supersonics basketball team.
2. Under the agreement for this renovation, the Sonics guaranteed that they would play in the arena until at least 2010.
3. The combination of rent payments and other anticipated income associated with the Sonics was intended to pay off the bonds, which mature in 2014.
4. However, the Sonics were sold to a group of Oklahoma business people, who are currently trying to break the lease and move the team.
5. The City has sued to enforce the terms of the lease.
6. A victory for the City would force the Sonics to stay for two years, but they could then move, leaving the City holding the bag for the estimated $25 million of remaining debt.
7. If the Sonics succeed in breaking the lease:
a. The team ownership would likely be required to compensate the City at a level that exceeds the rental payments that the City would have received.
b. However under those circumstances, the City would lose the Sonics and would probably not be able to fully pay off the debt. c. Key Arena would be economically viable as a concert venue with some basketball and other sporting events, but at some point in the future would probably either have to undergo a substantial remodel or be superseded by a new venue.”
Its nice to hear that them say a remodel/new building will have to happen Sonics or not. Just proves all the PI morons wrong.
Sounds like they are leaning buyout to me.
March 20th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
The Grizzlies for Sonics trade idea isn’t bad for Seattle. Rudy Gay, Mike Conley and Beasley would form a nice foundation.
March 21st, 2008 at 12:12 am
I’m not sure how Clay orchestrated the events leading to Gelly’s ACL injury, but it must be his fault.
Did anyone besides me see the tar-and-feathering of the British tax collector in the John Adams miniseries and think, “Damn, I wish that were Clay?”
Final question: if Clay Bennett chased a little girl and her dog through a sudden Seattle downpour, would he die holding a broomstick and screaming “I’m melting?”
March 21st, 2008 at 1:23 am
what ever happened to bobby jones? last i heard he was picked up by the rockets
March 21st, 2008 at 7:41 am
Here is an email I received from a member of the Seattle City Council:
You are among a number of citizens who have emailed me to express a
hope that the Sonics will remain in Seattle now that a local investor
group has stepped forward with an appealing proposal. It certainly
would be my hope that the team can be retained.
While I have little hope that Clay Bennett can be convinced that the
team should stay, I am encouraged that this local investor group has
indicated its willingness to truly partner with the public sector to
retain the team. Of course, Mr. Bennett has said the team is not for
sale, but perhaps either the New Orleans or Memphis teams might be, and
could be moved to Seattle. There are a lot of variables involved in
making this vision viable, but it does give me some hope.
Professional sports are an important asset for any city of the size of
Seattle. Taxpayers here have demonstrated a willingness to accept
additional taxes to help finance a place for professional sports teams
to play, but there is a limit to what the public should be expected to
swallow for the privilege of having professional teams. As you may
remember, when Howard Schultz owned the team, he wanted a $220 million
refurbishing of KeyArena, of which he was only willing to contribute
about $19 million. Clay Bennett has indicated he wants a whole new
arena to the tune of $500 million, to be built primarily with tax
dollars.
I believe the economics of professional basketball are broken, yet
cities are expected to help perpetuate the system by building new state
of the art arenas that are then declared to be obsolete in a decade or
less, long before they are ever paid off. In 2006, Seattle citizens
rejected the model when they voted overwhelmingly in favor of the
citizen-generated Initiative 91, limiting our ability to partner with
professional sports teams to those deals that provide a reasonable
financial return for the investment of taxpayer dollars.
I believe the offer of the local investor group to split the cost of a
$300 million refurbishing of KeyArena with taxpayers shows a willingness
to work with taxpayers, something we didn’t see with either Mr.
Schultz or Mr. Bennett. The new local offer is certainly appealing to
me. It is unfortunate that the state legislative leaders were unwilling
to consider or act upon the proposal during the 2008 Legislative
session. This certainly complicates hopes of retaining the team.
The citizens of Seattle own KeyArena. The Sonics have been the anchor
tenant and their absence would create a real financial hole for the
facility and Seattle Center. Even without the team, it has been
estimated that we need to invest some $20 million there simply to make
it appealing to non-sports use of the building. I think it is
reasonable to make a much larger investment of taxpayer funds in an
update, so long as it is a true partnership with the private sector.
Again, I share your hope that the team will remain in Seattle (and
playing at KeyArena). Like you, I’ll be following developments
closely in the weeks and months ahead.
Richard J. McIver
Seattle City Council
March 21st, 2008 at 7:50 am
Beasely doesn’t fit with our current need: a point guard.
Drafting anybody other than a pg or combo guard (Mayo) in this draft would be a mistake.
We’ve got a log jam at the F spot as it is
March 21st, 2008 at 8:41 am
We need a pg and a solid big man.
March 21st, 2008 at 8:54 am
Bobby Jones is in Miami as part of the “Lottery Crew.” He plays D while Ricky Davis jacks up bad shots.
March 21st, 2008 at 9:19 am
but perhaps either the New Orleans or Memphis teams might be, and
could be moved to Seattle.
Let Bennett buy one of those teams. I hope Slade can convince him to sell.
March 21st, 2008 at 9:20 am
Beasely doesn’t fit with our current need: a point guard.
Right, because no team needs a good scoring big man. Drafting to fill a hole at a position instead of the best available player would be an even bigger mistake imo. Look at Portland taking Bowie over the Great One; the Clippers taking Olowokandi over pretty much everyone else; Philly taking Shawn Bradley way too high because they needed a center, etc etc.
March 21st, 2008 at 9:25 am
On the draft…. Pick the best player - always the best strategy. Get talent. Obvioulsy this depends on good scouting - but pick the guy who you think will be the best NBA player and not based on your “Need” RE: position.
The above responses from city leaders are interesting… If Seattle can’t find the extra 75 million the only way it comes together is if Ballmer or someone else chips in a 75 million gift. The GOV. could still call a special session - but it seems doubtful from her recetn comments - who knows…. the clock is ticking.
If Seattle &/or State can’t come up with the 75 million I would not blame Ballmer & his group if they walked away from this.
March 21st, 2008 at 9:26 am
AJW…. Totally agree with you.
March 21st, 2008 at 9:32 am
I’d love to see my man Bobby Jones back in Seattle. He’d more than make up for a Wilkens departure with his defense.
March 21st, 2008 at 9:33 am
For what it is worth…. I have a friend who is close to the K-State program & he says Beasley is a great kid - mature - team player - quality person.
March 21st, 2008 at 9:55 am
“Right, because no team needs a good scoring big man. Drafting to fill a hole at a position instead of the best available player would be an even bigger mistake imo. Look at Portland taking Bowie over the Great One; the Clippers taking Olowokandi over pretty much everyone else; Philly taking Shawn Bradley way too high because they needed a center, etc etc. ”
“AJW…. Totally agree with you. ”
You’re being completely revisionist. It’s easy to criticize these picks in retrospect. Given the roster that Philly had at the time it made perfect sense to reach for the 7-5 guy … they already had Jeff Malone, Jeff Hornacek, Dana Barros, Orlando Woolridge and Clarence Weatherspoon in the backcourt and swing positions.
Kandi somewhat the same situation… The Clipps were also developing their own guys at the swing positions. Bibby might have been the way to go, but they’d just acquired Darrick Martin the year before … Look at the draft that year … you would take Raef LaFrentz or Antawn Jamison #1 overall? When you already had fan favorite Lamond Murray, Rodney Rogers and Mo Taylor in the frontcourt?
I don’t know I think it’s pretty easy to second guess looking back at it now, but those picks didn’t surprise me either year.
March 21st, 2008 at 10:23 am
Dick Tate Says:
“Enter the Adrian Griffin evaluation period.”
Classic - wish I’d thought of it!
- Classic..
March 21st, 2008 at 10:25 am
You’re being completely revisionist. It’s easy to criticize these picks in retrospect. Given the roster that Philly had at the time it made perfect sense to reach for the 7-5 guy … they already had Jeff Malone, Jeff Hornacek, Dana Barros, Orlando Woolridge and Clarence Weatherspoon in the backcourt and swing positions.
Kandi somewhat the same situation… The Clipps were also developing their own guys at the swing positions. Bibby might have been the way to go, but they’d just acquired Darrick Martin the year before … Look at the draft that year … you would take Raef LaFrentz or Antawn Jamison #1 overall? When you already had fan favorite Lamond Murray, Rodney Rogers and Mo Taylor in the frontcourt?
I don’t know I think it’s pretty easy to second guess looking back at it now, but those picks didn’t surprise me either year.
- If the player you are drafting is better than the players on your team then you do it…teams that draft based on needs almost always end up on the short end of the stick. That is one of the reasons why Portland’s GM is so smart…he takes the best players and deals with it later….
If Beasely is the best player in the draft you take him…
March 21st, 2008 at 10:32 am
Seattle coach P.J. Carlesimo said the Sonics will play in the Pepsi Pro Summer League in Orlando, Fla., this offseason. The Orlando summer league has fewer teams than summer leagues in Las Vegas or Utah, occurs earlier in the summer, is shorter in duration and is not open to the public.
Another example of getting totally away from Seattle.
March 21st, 2008 at 10:33 am
And I’d be OK with Will Conroy or Jones, sure why not. Gotta some reason to watch this team the rest of the way.
March 21st, 2008 at 10:40 am
“If the player you are drafting is better than the players on your team then you do it”
Is Shawn Bradley as an unknown quantity better than what Philly had at center AT THE TIME is the point. Look at what was there in the draft at the time. Everyone already knew GS and Orlando were going to do a Penny/Webber swap on draft day. Given what Philly had on their team I can understand it. Your guys point is still made with the benefit of hindsight.
Does Houston regret drafting Yao instead of the more well-known players that year like Drew Gooden? or a phenom like DaJuan Wagner?
Same thing with Portland … I understand the concept of BPA up to a point. But people are also forgetting that they just drafted Clyde Drexler the year before and Drex wasn’t exactly crap. Wasn’t it 10 years before Chi won a title with MJ? I’m pretty sure PDX made the playoffs every single year they had Drexler … Portland’s teams were dope with Kersey, Buck Williams … it’s not as if they passed over MJ for Sam Bowie and ended up in the lottery for the next decade.
March 21st, 2008 at 10:43 am
Myk Says:
- If the player you are drafting is better than the players on your team then you do it…teams that draft based on needs almost always end up on the short end of the stick. That is one of the reasons why Portland’s GM is so smart…he takes the best players and deals with it later….
If Beasley is the best player in the draft you take him…
I agree. I’m a BPA man myself. If the Sonics land the number one pick, they could draft Beasley, trade Durant for #2 and then draft Rose as well.
Steve Says:
And I’d be OK with Will Conroy or Jones, sure why not. Gotta some reason to watch this team the rest of the way.
Which is probably why they won’t do it. Hell, if they wanted to generate some fan interest, they could sign GP for the last few games so he’d be able to retire as a Sonic.
Laporbo Says:
Sounds like they are leaning buyout to me.
It sure does.
The City’s excuses are lining up: I-91, need state help, team will eventually leave anyway leaving us holding the bag for the debt, blah blah blah. Once relocation is approved and OK City locks in a lease beyond 2010, the official lame duck status will leave the City with no choice, imo.
March 21st, 2008 at 10:54 am
Is Shawn Bradley as an unknown quantity better than what Philly had at center AT THE TIME is the point. Look at what was there in the draft at the time. Everyone already knew GS and Orlando were going to do a Penny/Webber swap on draft day. Given what Philly had on their team I can understand it. Your guys point is still made with the benefit of hindsight.
- Huh?? What does GS/Orlando’s swap have to do with who Philly should’ve picked? They should’ve taken Penny over Bradley. This pick has nothing to do with hindsight for me. Me and most of my friends from day one have used this pick as a joke of how dumb certain franchises can be in the draft.
A 7′5″ white center with limited success in college…hmmm…has success written all over it.
Does Houston regret drafting Yao instead of the more well-known players that year like Drew Gooden? or a phenom like DaJuan Wagner?
- Yao was the clear cut #1 pick of the draft (even just for the marketing purposes)…I don’t get this example at all.
Same thing with Portland … I understand the concept of BPA up to a point. But people are also forgetting that they just drafted Clyde Drexler the year before and Drex wasn’t exactly crap. Wasn’t it 10 years before Chi won a title with MJ? I’m pretty sure PDX made the playoffs every single year they had Drexler … Portland’s teams were dope with Kersey, Buck Williams … it’s not as if they passed over MJ for Sam Bowie and ended up in the lottery for the next decade.
- The only thing that I will admit about all this is that in every case where teams got burned it was because a team drafted for size. You could also add the picks of Bogut and Marvin over Paul and D. Williams to this situation. However, Beasely has been considered far and away the BPA for most of the season. I just don’t see how you can say that having Wilcox and Collison (even Green) means you shouldn’t pick up Beasely.
In a dream scenario you get Durant to play two and have Durant/Green/Beasely combo. If you get the more likely scenario where Durant moves to the three you hope that you can take Green and turn him into a good PG or SG
March 21st, 2008 at 10:55 am
The city has the money to do $150M. Their fear is the state will not come thru and replace the money in a year. If the city wants to save the Sonics and the Center they have to take that risk.
——–
The teams biggest need is not at PG but at Center. They have nothing in the middle. Petro is a perimeter big man. He doesn’t block that many shots. Collison is too small. Even if we finish with the second worst record there is no guarantee they will not draft lower. Stop fixating on Derrick Rose. Brook Lopez would be the best fit with the current roster.
Beasley is the best big man, followed by Brook Lopez. Wheezy could easily be traded. If they find a buyer for Wheezy with a high lottery pick to offer then I believe he is gone. He is going to want $8M next year. The same could be said for Watson or Ridnour … gone. Presti, will try and get two picks in the top 10 and be bad another year.
March 21st, 2008 at 11:04 am
I agree. I’m a BPA man myself. If the Sonics land the number one pick, they could draft Beasley, trade Durant for #2 and then draft Rose as well.
- How amazing would that situation be…I’m not ever sure it would be THAT bad of a trade…it’d definately take some balls
March 21st, 2008 at 11:07 am
Giving up on Durant already?
If the Sonics land the first pick, they should go with the best player available; that Wilcox and Collison are here already should not play much of any role into the team’s decisionmaking process for that pick as both players are average to above-average players.
March 21st, 2008 at 11:16 am
“Yao was the clear cut #1 pick of the draft (even just for the marketing purposes)…I don’t get this example at all. ”
I think it’s because you don’t remember the other draft. Yao was no more projectable a success than Bradley was at the time. Yao’s record vs NCAA or pro level competition was as nonexistent as Bradley’s.
“The only thing that I will admit about all this is that in every case where teams got burned it was because a team drafted for size. ”
No, that’s just because those are the cases where it gets publicized. DeJuan Wagner, Jay Williams … there’s more.
March 21st, 2008 at 11:25 am
I think it’s because you don’t remember the other draft. Yao was no more projectable a success than Bradley was at the time. Yao’s record vs NCAA or pro level competition was as nonexistent as Bradley’s.
- ??? Yao Ming was considered the prize of the draft from day one…that was perception. Shawn Bradley was never in that class.
You could make an argument that the BPA was Jay Williams…but again that shows that teams seem to be much more willing to take the tall player over the smaller player in hopes for the chance to hit it big.
I simply don’t believe that is a good strategy..
No, that’s just because those are the cases where it gets publicized. DeJuan Wagner, Jay Williams … there’s more.
- We aren’t talking about picks that didn’t turn out…we are talking about taking the best player available. Jay Williams was clearly the BPA at that pick…im sure if they had known he would be an idiot and buy a motorcycle and ruin his career they would’ve thought differently.
March 21st, 2008 at 11:26 am
Sheesh. KD will be the truth in 3-4 years. How has anyone given up on him this soon?
Kobe was little more than a popularity stunt for his first 2-3 years. Now, (though I detest Kobe with most all of my being), the dude is thee best player in the NBA today.
Do any of you KD haters actually think Beasley will do any better with no mentor and the same crappy Sonics on/off court situation? I say he averages maybe 20 and 8 his first year, no matter what situation he’s in, while Durant’s averages shoot up to 22 and 7 (with improved fg%) with 1 year of NBA experience under his belt.
I’m also a huge fan of KD’s commitment to endorsing affordable Nike basketball shoes (which he actually started doing at Texas last year by wearing the $90 Air Max Enforcer, though was not paid to do so). What a great message to send to kids - that you can excel on the court and not have to rock J’s. Beasley touts expensive Nikes and Jordans, and seems bound for an Lebron/Jordan exploitation approach to the shoe market.
March 21st, 2008 at 11:28 am
“I just don’t see how you can say that having Wilcox and Collison (even Green) means you shouldn’t pick up Beasely.”
I’m not. We didn’t draft Wilcox and Collison last year. We aren’t developing those guys, they pretty much are who they are. That wasn’t the case in the other situations.
March 21st, 2008 at 11:34 am
“Shawn Bradley was never in that class. ”
That completely does not jibe with my recollections. Bradley was always talked about as a top 3 player in that draft.
March 21st, 2008 at 11:37 am
or rather, top 3 prospect.
March 21st, 2008 at 11:37 am
Isnt the BPA method the same reason that Portland took Oden?
March 21st, 2008 at 11:39 am
That completely does not jibe with my recollections. Bradley was always talked about as a top 3 player in that draft.
- Like I said earlier I might be a bit biased because even then I couldn’t see how anyone thought drafting a 7′5″ who barely played college basketball was a good idea for any NBA team. It really just defies any sort of common sense, which i understand many GMs lack.
March 21st, 2008 at 11:41 am
From a drafting strategy it seems like most teams have things mixed up. They are much more willing to take chances on big guys who haven’t really done much…who usually bomb…but then act pretty conservative for smaller players despite the fact that more smaller players have become better in the NBA then their college stats would’ve indicated.
March 21st, 2008 at 12:08 pm
GP…, Gerald Green got suggested here a couple of times, got some discussion, and several rejections.
There is no news basis for thinking he will be the rabbit Presti pulls out of his hat; it is just internet chat so far.
He got traded from Minn. to Houston then cut.
82 games has some new sortable leaguewide tables and the clutch shooting page shows Durant a decent / average clutch shooter on FG%, but verly nicely 12th best in league in getting fouled then though 5th worst in league in turning it over then. Overall I think that aspect of his game shows promise of improvement.
March 21st, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Durant’s clutch time shooting load or frequency of choice about shooting is about 25th highest.
For his overall time on court Durant has experienced and contributed to some debatable degree to the 7th weakest team offense of all players who have been on the court 100 plays and the 16th worst team defense.
In is rookie year he is about 50th weakest on 2pt shot FG% among the around 200 who took100 such shots but around average on finishing inside.
March 21st, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Jeff Green was 19th weakest on 2 pt FG% among those who qualified but average at getting inside shots and making them. He isnt much in the clutch yet.
The team offense and defense story with Green on court is similar to Durant on team offense and actually slighly worse (4th worst for any qualifying player in league) but team defense with Green on court has encouragingly actually moved to a bit above league average.
March 21st, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Durant and Green on court together is worst player pair for Durant and tied for 2nd worst for Green. That 1000 minute experiment hasn’t shown any sign of improving yet. I guess putting 2 wings in the bottom quarter on 2pt FG% for the league on the floor together isnt performing so well.
March 21st, 2008 at 12:52 pm
It’s not that I’m giving up on Durant. I think he’ll probably end up being a great wing player, shooter-slasher pizzazz. However I’ve never believed having a wing as the featured offensive player is a team that’s very capable of winning a title. Denver would be a current example of that type of team that’s good, but not quite good enough to get up to the top.
My motive would be what I feel is the ideal team construction. Teams that win titles usually have players that excel at the point and the post. To be able to get both of those players 1-2 in the same draft would be a stroke of genius. I think Durant would be worth that sacrifice no matter how many points he may end up averaging in the future.
March 21st, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Petro is Durant’s best pair (maybe because he frees up the lane more?) and each shoot better with the other than without and team wins almost 50%, almost twice what they win otherwise.
March 21st, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Dick’s point about wings as lead player is probably supported in terms of recent title teams.
For regular season it might not be. Of top 50 on net on/off wings are proportionally represented.
March 21st, 2008 at 1:08 pm
If you look at both 1 on 1 data and team data and roll these effects together (as it is done is “roland ratings”) Jeff Green is 7th weakest in league among players getting near or above 20 minutes a game.
March 21st, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Durant is bottom third.
But this season at least on court will finish and be forgotten. And then hope for better in the future.
March 21st, 2008 at 1:25 pm
9 of 10 teams who have the best net PER at C position overall are in the playoffs. All of the top 10 at PG are in. Among top 10 at SG 6 are in playoffs, 4 not. At SF 9 in, 1 not. At PF 8 in, 2 not.
This shows least correlation between SG net performance and playoffs. Tending to support Dick’s point but I will note that there is some difference between Sg and Sf, with strong SF teams fairing pretty well.
March 21st, 2008 at 1:26 pm
“It’s not that I’m giving up on Durant. I think he’ll probably end up being a great wing player, shooter-slasher pizzazz. However I’ve never believed having a wing as the featured offensive player is a team that’s very capable of winning a title. Denver would be a current example of that type of team that’s good, but not quite good enough to get up to the top. ”
Yeah, and that’s with a multiple DPOY at center too; I was not a fan of adding AI to that mix but even in a less competitive year than this one those two are a bad match for each other.
March 21st, 2008 at 1:27 pm
“Isnt the BPA method the same reason that Portland took Oden? ”
Tough to say as I believe Pritchard was interested in picking Durant at one point.
March 21st, 2008 at 1:28 pm
On net PER SG is Sonics best position (swimming against the example of the tide) but still below average and influenced by high shot attempts. They are bottom 10 everywhere else.
March 21st, 2008 at 1:35 pm
I think what the Sonics need is another & footer with huge upside! J/K
If the Supes can draft a couple of quality guards this draft I will be happy. I would be giddy if Presti could nab Rose & Bayless.
March 21st, 2008 at 1:35 pm
I think what the Sonics need is another 7 footer with huge upside! J/K
If the Supes can draft a couple of quality guards this draft I will be happy. I would be giddy if Presti could nab Rose & Bayless.
March 21st, 2008 at 1:45 pm
If we were able to score a guy as promising as Beasley in the draft, we take him in a heartbeat. And if this off-season weren’t so dominated by the OKC saga, it would also be fun to speculate about free agent possibilities. Would love to snag Monta Ellis from GS, what a great player, it’s fun to imagine what Durant could do alongside another highly skilled offensive player to draw attention away from. Another FA to be worth looking at, on a lower level, but who is young and has significantly improved is Sasha Vujacic from the Lakers.
March 21st, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Hibbert!!!! He is further along then Sene, Swift or Petro. Robert Swift’s career is a footnote in the Rick Sund era. Petro is a 4 not a 5. Sene is the wildest of wild cards. He might be Mutumbo or he might be Rich King. Go with a tournament and Big East tested center. If you can nab him late 1st or early 2nd DO IT!!!!!
March 21st, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Is Jeff Green injured? He looks really slow out there.
March 21st, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Yeah, and that’s with a multiple DPOY at center too; I was not a fan of adding AI to that mix but even in a less competitive year than this one those two are a bad match for each other.
- Denver is stuck in a deep conference. You ship them into the East and they are probably the 3rd seed. They are not a bad team…just stuck in a bad situation.
March 21st, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Crow Says:
I will note that there is some difference between Sg and Sf, with strong SF teams fairing pretty well.
I think alot of those SF teams can get to the playoffs no problem, just not advance very far.
Looks like Durant may be spending another season at SG per today’s PI article:
Carlesimo has been forced to use Green in various roles, including power forward. But that will not be his eventual role. Carlesimo said Thursday that he plans to keep Green as a small forward — where he can score more — and less in the paint.
That means Durant will remain the shooting guard next season, despite expectations that he would eventually move to small forward. Green’s offensive progression has allowed Carlesimo to use him extensively along with Durant.
“He’s capable of getting double-figure scoring every night and capable of getting double-figure rebounds some nights,” Carlesimo said. “He’s capable of being an above-average defender. Jeff’s very talented, so I don’t think there’s a limit. He has a lot of tools.”
March 21st, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Looks like Durant may be spending another season at SG per today’s PI article:
- See…Bennett didn’t have to do anything else besides hiring PJ to kill this franchise. He could’ve just looked like a fool (due to the hiring) as opposed to a fool AND villain…
March 21st, 2008 at 2:32 pm
What did everyone think about Bayless last night? I just don’t see him as a PG in the league. Until he hit that big bucket in the fourth quarter I had wondered if he had already turned pro and didn’t show up for the game.
Budinger looks to be a decent scorer, but will be a defensive liability. Sort of a Brent Barry clone.
March 21st, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Good discussion folks…. My additions…
1. When drafting yes you can think about your current roster & needs - but IMO the best approach is to lean into a priority of taking the BPA. If 2 guys are dead even you can go for your current “Need” - but in genral stay away from that thinking & get guys who can play - compete - etc.
2. If Beasely is a stud & your scouting says he can be an all-star & is better overall player than rose you take him - Collison & Wilcox being present is irrelevant.
March 21st, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Thanks for the highlighted quote Dick.
Green at SF probably makes more sense at team level than at PF though neither optin is decent yet and the call looks different at personal and team levels.
Playing Durant and Green together still is a theory with bad early results. Maybe they develop individually and develop better team chemistry on the court together but I’ll have to see it to beileve it and replace the evidence thus far that it does not work by a mile.
As of now I’d prefer Green play 20-25 on SF in the future instead of 30+. If he gets to average for a SF then let him play 30+.
If Durant and Green were kept separate as much as possible (what I’d do) Durant could play 20-25 minutes at SF and 10-15 at SG. So he doesnt absolutely have to play mainly SG. It is odd that a 9 PER SF in Green is forcing Durant to stay at SG, which I think is out of position and less productive than he could be at SF.
But PJ and Presti have their design ideas and press on despite the poor early returns. If Durant becomes an above average outside shooter a good part of my objection goes away. If he doesn’t it will never work. They still have to get to average or better on team defense that way too.
Both Durant and Green are best at driving but they need outside shooting to keep the defense from sagging too much. Unless and until they get a PG who is dynamite from the outside this is a hard to justify wing combination. Their turnovers also add up quickly and argue against the combo. Unless and until they get a PG who really directs the offense efficiently with authority (a tall order for a young PG), making the wings finishers instead of creators, it is a pairing that seems lkely to produce an offense that is fairly easy to guard and that stays south of league average.
But will have to wait n see what help Presti can get and how the new team interacts.
March 21st, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Queston….
Is anything special going on for the Sonics/Blazer game Monday night? There had been some talk of some SOS activities etc. but I’m not sure if anything really came of that. I’m going to the game & just wanted to know what is up/if anything for that evening at the Key.
March 21st, 2008 at 2:51 pm
“- See…Bennett didn’t have to do anything else besides hiring PJ to kill this franchise. He could’ve just looked like a fool (due to the hiring) as opposed to a fool AND villain…”
I’m thinking Presti may have some say in this, since he drafted both small forwards. Just a possibility.
March 21st, 2008 at 2:52 pm
I just have not seen Rose of Memphis play much - how good do you all think he is? Think he be an all-star in the NBA?
March 21st, 2008 at 2:56 pm
If Durant and Green were kept separate as much as possible (what I’d do) Durant could play 20-25 minutes at SF and 10-15 at SG. So he doesnt absolutely have to play mainly SG. It is odd that a 9 PER SF in Green is forcing Durant to stay at SG, which I think is out of position and less productive than he could be at SF
- Never underestimate the pride factor from Presti…he drafted Green at #5 and will probably really try and force the fact that he can play in the nBA
March 21st, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Hey, reading on hoopshype where some people think that the spurs are ‘looking old’. What are everyone’s thoughts on that. Pop says that is the way they have looked for a while and they still win. If they do weaken, our ‘09 pick from them looks even better!
March 21st, 2008 at 3:27 pm
I think you are right on that Myk - Presti will be sure to give Green plenty of opportunity.
It is early but I’m causously optimistic on Green. Remembering he is a young rookie on a TERRIBLE team I think he is showing potential to be good or very good -hard to tell how high his “Upside” goes. Borderline all-star may be a reach but maybe not.
IMO - Green will go as far as his outside jumper takes him. If he only becomes a mediocre outside shooter I doubt he will ever be anything special - but if he can get that going it will open up his game so much he could be real good.
March 21st, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Durant and Green will be fine once they get a coach who knows how to coach and perhaps a mentor figure(s). Kurt Thomas would have been great for Green to learn under for the next 1.5 years.
You critics seem a bit harsh. You come off as if your holding inexperienced kids (with no NBA coaching) to 5-year league vet standards. Rashard was total garbage for his first 5 years (and still stinks to some degree if you ask me), but he’s a psuedo star now with a max deal.
March 21st, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Since there were mentions of signing hometown guys — why not Marcus Williams? What happened to this guy’s stock? I just looked at his D-League numbers and they look pretty good — but then again, Randy Livingston looks like Oscar Robertson in the D-League
March 21st, 2008 at 4:51 pm
Speedcat correct me if I am wrong but I assume JJ could show up at Ozzie’s and hook up in some fashion with the March 24 efforts?
Clint at times I am probably too harsh on Durant and Green but it is an effort to see in the actual data where they are and see how far they need to go to be successful. I know they are rookies and I am hopeful for improvement and try to note when I see it.
On Durant and Green together vs apart, I see Durant with Green the main offiensive change is both get to line and rebound a little less.
Durant shoots a tiny bit better, Green a tiny bit worse. Small individual changes arent worth a drastic reaction but then I also see that with both on court vs one or less overall team defense slips 3+ pts a game and offense slides 1-2 for a total of 5 pts a game. That might seem tolerable, correctable but this is in addition to the =10 deficit the team already experiences with just one on the court. Maybe it changes but I think it is useful to know where things stand right now. -16 a game when both on court is a large hill and a long climb to even or good.
But let’s see how the team performs with the pairing looks next season. Let them grow and give them more of the support they need. And then check the results. I’d try to keep an open mind and be willing to re-assess options based on the evolving stats, what the eyes see and team record. One year may not be enough. Two might not be for everybody either but at some point the pair needs to show they work better together than not and checking is the way to know.
March 21st, 2008 at 5:43 pm
If Presti and PJ prefer to focus on improving team results using a combo that is currently -16 per game as much as possible as opposed of using lineups that are at -11 as much as possible then wow us with results. Seems like choosing to make the problem 50% worse to me. But maybe that is still the plan for draft and other reasons.
March 21st, 2008 at 11:25 pm
I still see Green as an Al Harrington type who will play alot of seasons without really finding the position that best suits him. He’s a classic tweener to me which is fine if he can adapt to the role as a sixth man off the bench. It could lead to a long stay in the league. But I don’t see him as the Sonics starting small forward for the long term.
I’m also sticking to my guns in saying that Kevin Durant may as well get used to being a small forward in the NBA and only because Carlisimo is protecting him since he’s still basically a kid with a youngsters frame is why he has been a shooting guard all season. A small forward can still have the latitude on offense to roam either inside or be more of an outside shooter( Peja Stojackovic or Rashard Lewis for instance) and be effective. Defensively against the stronger forwards is where he needs time to develop and mature.
So as of right now I think both players are a little out of their niche but will find their most effective comfort zone with time. I also don’t think it would be a bad idea to draft a combo guard or shooting guard. But as I said yesterday I’m off the Bayless bandwagon and even though he looks like a good player I don’t believe he would make an impact with the Sonics that a Derrick Rose or OJ Mayo would.
March 22nd, 2008 at 9:10 am
Green as 6-8th man sounds right based on what we’ve seen so far. But spending Ray Allen for 5th pick to get that would be a pretty poor decision.
If the money flexibility down the line does not yield good free agents to add to draft picks this becomes a 5 year or longer rebuild or flop.