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Cut and Dried


Posted on Thursday, April 24th, 2008 at 2:21 pm by Brian Robinson

I am sorry but maybe I am getting too soft in recent comments.
This just does not jive. If you have an obligation to look into options for a period of 12 month(by the way this obligation does not limit you to publicly financed ones) and you on record, in writing say “the decision to leave Seattle WAS NOT MADE IN HASTE” to one of the cheif executives of your league then you are screwed.

There is a time period that is well defined. Your decision to leave was either made before the conclusion of that time period or it wasn’t. This is cut and dried, its not ambigious. We have an e-mail, dated 5 months in advance of thise deadline, in which he openly acknowledges and tries to justify his decision. WOW.

The more that is released the more I think there are some real problems for Clay. Individually these things hurt but cumulatively they seem like an amazing amount of evidence. Backing up Aubreys quote they seem even more damning. That quote can be explained away in some arguments, but not with the backup of all these mails.

Stern will get deposed. He’s putting up a real fight but the fact is that he has been a central figure in this process and if nothing else has stunning insight into the league. This is not going the way he and Clay envisioned.

258 Responses to “Cut and Dried”

  1. Hambone Says:

    I am nearly speechless. Does this drive the final nail into Saytan’s coffin?

  2. mb1edwards Says:

    How come I think that Slade & Yarmuth have this all planned out?
    They seem to know Clay & Stern’s moves before they make them.

    I wish I knew what other email evidence was coming.

    Did the NBA have to turn over any internal docs or emails concerning the OKC move as well?

  3. AKismyhomie Says:

    AK - i miss your trade scenarios… Pls come up with one for us to chew on…

    I MISS STATS!!!!!!!

  4. Otto Says:

    Bennett gave in with 6 months still to go! and sent the email to the NBA.

    LIAR

  5. Pete Says:

    Wow. I mean, WOW!

  6. Otto Says:

    I’m not sure, But I think we just won.

  7. Pete Says:

    Brian,

    You said there might be a meeting tonight — what’s the good word?

  8. Clint Says:

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA @ Clay Bennett!

  9. James Says:

    The longer this goes on, the worse it is getting for the league. It started out making Clay look bad, now the NBA is slowly getting dragged into the mud. Just the fact they looked into it now opens doors for the court to see how much investigation actually went into it.

    Maybe all this talk of a settlement is for them to decide when they’ve had enough, and not us.

  10. RRWRAYIII Says:

    The more that continues to come out, the more I think this will be resolved before the trial. Bennett’s options are thinning out real quick.

  11. lemonverbena Says:

    – NBA officials last year worried that Sonics owners may have violated their “good faith” promise to work toward an arena deal in Seattle, according to new e-mails disclosed as part of the city of Seattle’s lawsuit against the team.

    In an e-mail last August, Sonics owner Clay Bennett told fellow owner Aubrey McClendon that NBA executive Joel Litvin was “looking into certain documents we signed at closing that may have been breached.” …

    The city’s latest filing argues that lawyers for Seattle should be able to question Stern personally because of his “private conversations” with Bennett about relocation and his support for the Oklahoma City relocation.

    League attorneys have sought to block Stern’s deposition.

    “There can be no doubt that the sole purpose of the deposition is to harass the NBA and its commissioner,” NBA attorneys wrote in a motion asking a judge to quash the city’s request. NBA spokesman Tim Frank said today the league would have no comment on the latest court filings.

    A hearing on the dispute is set for Monday in New York City. –

    Wow. Wow… WOW!!!

    If they league’s only argument against Stern giving testimony is that the City of Seattle wants to “harass the NBA and its commissioner”, then they are SCREWED. He WILL be deposed!

    Who’s all-in now baby!! SAVE OUR SONICS!!

  12. Clint Says:

    LET’S GET THE WORD OUT TO THE NATIONAL MEDIA OUTLETS ASAP!!!

    Bill Simmons, JA Adande, TrueHoop, NY Times, LA Times, etc.

    Let’s get to work, people!

  13. glennpdx Says:

    We win when Stern tells Bennett that it’s time. Time to cut the losses and sell in Seattle. Something like that could happen. That’s why the city is saying ‘no deal.’ Waiting for Stern to get worried enough to take care of OKC and his dear close personal friend buddy chum Clay by some other means…

  14. E YACHT Says:

    I think that at some point the NBA needs to start considering a new central figure to replace David Stern. Everything needs changes. There is a reason why we replace presidents after four years. Stern is starting to think that the league is his to play with. He has been manipulating this league like a piece of Clay (no pun intended) for far to long…

  15. James Says:

    All in for me! As long as they have a team to offer through expansion or New Orleans, or Memphis count me out, as OK city can have them. Last time I checked it was Seattle Sonics 1967-present, and the OK City team has never played a game.Our past, our team, our time, our future.

  16. Otto Says:

    We have the NBA and bennett by the balls.

  17. merks Says:

    I love that the emails were released the day after Clay was deposed. I’ll bet a good bit of money that the emails are direct opposition to what he said in the deposition.

    Beautifully played the Seattle attorneys.

    Perjury

  18. Sam K Says:

    Slade Gorton is my role model.

  19. McCoy Says:

    Merks - if you are right that is a sweet legal move.

  20. glennpdx Says:

    I don’t know if they were looking for perjury through the deposition, but if this goes to trial Bennett has a very serious problem: When does he start telling the truth and admit he lied? If he’s too late with the decision, then he has perjury problems on top of everything else…

  21. Jaz Says:

    mb1edwards: “How come I think that Slade & Yarmuth have this all planned out? They seem to know Clay & Stern’s moves before they make them.”

    Because they’re working lawyers. Bennett just makes lots of money. Stern was once a laywer, but now he’s a running dog of men who make lots of money.

  22. James Says:

    Can you imagine when he was deposed yesterday..”Clay, were you ever worried that you might have breeched the side agreement, or was anybody else worried about it?” Hum, No, sir, we’ve done everything by the agreement to get this done in Seattle!

    Flash forward to today with this e-mail coming out…Clay: “Oh sh*%!

  23. Steve Says:

    Hey! Stop the presses … Clay and I do agree on something! The
    Seattle sports media is a bunch of homeristic, buttkissing
    dingleberries … he’s right on there.

    Flaming sh!tbomb #3 on Bennett the NBAs doorstep…where’s Producer?

    Ding dong.

  24. merks Says:

    Can you imagine how scared Stern must be in regards to what Bennett might of put into an email about there personal conversations. If Stern has to go through with the deposition he has to figure that the Slade has some good stuff on him but probably doesn’t know what.

    Sleep well David.

  25. James Says:

    Sleep well David indeed!

  26. D_G Says:

    I have a question.

    What is the public rationalle for Stern imposing the fine on McClendon? As in has Stern ever been asked the question: “why did you impose a fine on McClendon?”

    Isn’t the only possible justification of the fine is that it is an admission of a violation of a contract, and the NBA wants to supress such an admission.

    If so, isn’t the imposition of a fine a tacit acknowledgement by the NBA that McClendon admitted to being in violation of a contract.

    What other way can there be to interpret the act of the NBA imposing a fine on a person for making a statement?

  27. Bigsmooth Says:

    Beauty!

  28. James Says:

    Good point D_G! I hadn’t thought of it that way!

  29. Otto Says:

    The OKC folks are hard to find at the times board right now.

  30. TB Says:

    i didn’t want this to get lost in the last thread…

    the naming rights currently belonging to Key Bank expire in 2010, the same year as the lease. The way I see it, there’s a significant chunk of your 75 mil (maybe 15 or so) right there.

    also… I-91 restricts tax dollars for stadiums. but not necessarily public money, i.e. donations. anyone up for a little fundraiser? BAKE SALE!

  31. Eric E Says:

    “Seattle has the most inept and difficult sports media of any major market. That was the view of the league before we arrived and I now completely agree.”

    Is Clay serious??? Of course we weren’t showering you in love. We aren’t stupid AND, surprise surprise, you don’t own the media here like you do in OKC.

    Welcome to the real life you fat brat.

  32. Sam K Says:

    The rationale for the fine is in one of the old court documents. You can see the NBA’s letter to McClendon. If I recall correctly, it is extremely vague; something like, “The fine is a response to Mr. McClendon’s remarks, which were deemed detrimental to the League.” I think Stern will have to give a much better answer in court.

  33. Vinny Says:

    His Highness David Stern is far too important to be bothered for something as trivial as a deposition! I bet that will sit well with the Judge.

    Can we expect the rationale for the $250,000.00 fine is simply “detrimental to the league”. non-specific so as to avoid repercussion.

  34. James Says:

    The reason it was detrimental to the league, is because he admitted violating the damn side agreement! It was never our intention to own a team in Seattle! Explain this one away David! Go get ‘em Howie!!

  35. D_G Says:

    The NBA and fines has always seemed so wierd to me.

    A player or coach says the refs made a bad call, and next, Stern imposes a fine upon the person who made the comment. Never, when these fines are imposed, is the truth/validity of the remark called into question. In fact, if the remark where demonstrably false/invalid, the NBA would likely issue a statement of denial/correction and would not need to impose a fine.

    The imposition of a fine is almost an official recognition of the validity of the claim, and of the bad PR from people reporting their honest assessment of a sitution.

  36. Myk Says:

    “Bennett reacted to a column by Seattle Times columnist Steve Kelley: ‘All of these guys are against us. Seattle has the most inept and difficult sports media of any major market. That was the view of the league before we arrived and I now completely agree.”

    - It would’ve been much funnier if he has used the Steve Kelley style of writing to convey this point…

  37. Eric E Says:

    The fine was done to make it appear as though the league was neutral on the situation and that they didn’t agree with Aubrey’s comments. I don’t know what else the league really could have done other than admitting the owners are sleaze balls and not letting them relocate. It seems that if this were any other city and any other ownership group that the league would have come down harder. The fine was just a way for the league to save face. So I agree, more explaining is necessary on the NBA’s part.

  38. Jeff "Crutches" Brown Says:

    This is why Stern has been so adamant about a “Scorched Earth” policy. He knows there is dirt on him and Clay. He knows that if it goes to court that the NBA and Bennett will be revealed as liars and unethical. That is why he tries to threaten Seattle. Saying we’ll never get another NBA team if this goes to court. The last thing he wants is for this to go to court. But frankly, it looks like Seattle is holding more chips than he is.

    Could we still lose the team? And never have NBA in Seattle ever again? Yeah, sure it’s possible.

    But the way things stack up right now. There’s enough evidence to prove that Bennett and Stern were full of Sh!t. While in court, all their dirty laundry will be aired out and that’s bad news for Bennett, Stern, and the NBA.

    It makes absolutely NO SENSE to steal the NBA away from Seattle. There are at least a few other franchises that are struggling to stay afloat in their respective areas.

    Stern needs to re-think how they want to bring NBA to OKC. Either by Expansion or by taking another team (Memphis, Charlotte, New Orleans).

    He will lose the court cases and the NBA will have a huge black eye from this whole ordeal.

    Or if they’re smart, they’ll settle with Seattle and sell to the Ballmer group and figure a new way to get basketball to OKC if they want it this bad.

    Keep fighting the good fight everyone! This is OUR team. OUR Sonics! The Kevin Durant, Jeff Green, Nick Collison Sonics.

    We’re all in … not turning back now … SAVE OUR SONICS!

  39. Steve Says:

    ““Bennett reacted to a column by Seattle Times columnist Steve Kelley: ‘All of these guys are against us. Seattle has the most inept and difficult sports media of any major market. That was the view of the league before we arrived and I now completely agree.”

    - It would’ve been much funnier if he has used the Steve Kelley style of writing to convey this point… ”

    Ahahahahahaha …

    Aubrey,

    That guy Steve Kelley really grinds my gears.

    Him and those simpering chowderheads at KJR.

    He Hate Me.

    Ta,

    Clay xxxooo

  40. Patches Pal Says:

    Bennett e-mailed Litvin on April 23, 2007, saying the decision to leave Seattle was “not made in haste but in the context of now years of failing economics” and no prospects for a new arena. While Oklahoma City “is certainly a much smaller media market, this ownership group provides a unique relationship” with the city’s business and political leaders and “can deliver a viable business operation and commitment to competitive teams,” Bennett told Litvin, president of the NBA’s league and basketball operations.

    What makes him so sure in April, 2007 that he “has a unique relationship with the [OKC] cities political leaders and can deliver …” I thought he wasn’t talking with the Mayor of OKC about the Sonics relocation.

  41. SpeedCat Says:

    RE: recent Seattle times article & Clay’s comments in latest uncovered emails.

    “Inept sports media”? What does he expect when he is an out of town owner who doesn’t put forth a good faith effort to keep the team?

    How about the Columbia Journalism Review that declared the OKC paper to be “the worst journalism ever” or something to that effect.

  42. Deeprince Says:

    This is why sometimes you have to fight the bully. You have to punch him in the face and bloody His Nose before he Thinks perhaps there may be a better course of action. This is costing ME way to much. I never planned on a fight I just thought I would push you, punch you and take your stuff. YES! you have to do as these gentlemen have done and prepare yourself for that fight. Make sure you have more than just bravodo to back you up. Anticipate the fact that he is going to try and punch you but also realize he has yet to be hit. No one has really ever tried to fight him back and he has no idea what it’s like. He always had that reputation of being so tuff to hide behind. Stay Calm make good use of the anger and resentment he has caused so that your aim is true and that the shot hits its mark.
    Watch the strange look of suprise on his face as it does, the hey that hurt response that follows. See the new look of humanity in his eyes as he realizes that just like you he can be hurt. And it’s no fun, But don’t feel bad in fact punch him again. Before the courage returns remind him again of his lack of empathy for you and the pain he was causing you. You have NOW reached the negotiation stage, you can ask Do you want some more? Or have you had enough? If he has and relents then you can begin the work of healing and perhaps become friends. I’m no expert but thats how it worked for me in Grade School.

    Which seems to be about the same level of competence that has been shown by Bennet & His Band of Pirates

  43. Cage44 Says:

    I wish this could get hammered out soon so I could bring myself to watch the Spurs-Suns series. Clay is right about the local media, John Mcgrath turned his back on Sonic’s Fans and should never write about the Supes ever again, he has lost his right, even in 3 years when we are in the Finals and the Sonics rule Seattle once again.

  44. Pete Says:

    Obviously, the key part of this is “the decision to leave Seattle was not made in haste.”

    This implies pretty clearly that the decision to move was made six months before his 12-month obligation to put forth good faith best efforts expired.

    And now we have that in writing.

  45. 4020vision Says:

    I’ll tell you what, who needs the playoff’s or TV Sweeps? This is the most compelling storyline I’ve seen in year’s. I do not want to get over confident but little drops keep landing in the bucket while we hear nothing but “This is just vindictiveness by Seattle!” from The Association and Feet of Clay.

    I keep waiting for the hammer to fall but it hasn’t come yet. Are they just holding back to drop it all at once? Are they waiting till there is a lull in The Playoff’s so as not to detract from them? I mean not that The Mayor and Ceis don’t seem like good guy’s but they’ve had to have said something these folk’s could throw out in a vain attempt to sway the national opinion. It’s just weird nothing zip zero from these fella’s.

    Anyway, enjoy the view from the top of the roller coaster I’m guessing something’s got to give here soon. We’ve had way too much positive lately.

  46. Myk Says:

    I wish this could get hammered out soon so I could bring myself to watch the Spurs-Suns series. Clay is right about the local media, John Mcgrath turned his back on Sonic’s Fans and should never write about the Supes ever again, he has lost his right, even in 3 years when we are in the Finals and the Sonics rule Seattle once again.

    - It seems as if every sports writer / journalist has flip flopped on this scenario numerous times. Honestly, the ineptitude is one thing I have to agree with Clay on…just don’t see what that had to do with putting forth a good faith effort.

  47. Hambone Says:

    “Obviously, the key part of this is “the decision to leave Seattle was not made in haste.”

    This implies pretty clearly that the decision to move was made six months before his 12-month obligation to put forth good faith best efforts expired.

    And now we have that in writing. ”

    Agree Pete. And even MORE importantly, this email indicates that the NBA knew about his decision at that time, too. Yet they supported him in his duplicitous actions.

    TSK TSK TSK NBA
    YOU’ALL GONNA HAFTA PAY

  48. jay Says:

    wow clay wow! the more I read these emails and the more dirt comes out, I think its best if he just admits he wrong, sell the team and get the hell out seattle before things get really bad for him and his bff stern.

  49. Yoon Says:

    I keep waiting for the hammer to fall but it hasn’t come yet. Are they just holding back to drop it all at once? Are they waiting till there is a lull in The Playoff’s so as not to detract from them? I mean not that The Mayor and Ceis don’t seem like good guy’s but they’ve had to have said something these folk’s could throw out in a vain attempt to sway the national opinion. It’s just weird nothing zip zero from these fella’s.

    They certainly don’t want to reveal everything before they go to trial. It’s always best to keep a few bullets in the chamber. Besides, it is better that they are slowly leaking these emails because it is putting constant pressure on the ownership group and the league. They keep getting embarrassed over and over again.

  50. Dick Tate Says:

    While I appreciate the opinions offered by various attorneys on this case, i’d love to hear an opinion from a judge or former judge. I mean let’s face it, in general, attorneys think they can sue over just about anything.

  51. JJ Says:

    I still think Seattle Attorneys have even more. They are gradually revealing stuff. It’s all about managing the pressure, fear, risk assessment etc. as you apply your pressure.

    If Clay & his buddies are dumb enough to have e-mailed what we have already seen it would not surprise me a bit if there is more.

    The other thing that is so crucial to this is really simple:

    Clay if fact was guilty of fraud - he is a liar - he did not do good faith - it’s just a matter of finding enough evidence to connect the dots. This is different from trying to figure out IF a guy is guilty - we know he is and when that is the case - often the facts gradually appear as people dig hard enough.

    Also, I think the tactical move to not make Stern & NBA defendants in Howard’s lawsuit was very interesting & brilliant. Right now this gives our boys the chance to start talking with Stern & his attorneys and letting them know… This can still be done & Let’s all just speculate a bit on what would be the implications fort the NBA being guilty of a fraud in this franchise sale - complicit in it - HMMMM

    We are talking HUGE scandal & dollars. Sterns Legacy would be branded with this just like Barry Bonds career is branded by steriods.

    This then goes back to BR’s thread intro yesterday about mortgageing everything. Even if Stern think he has only a 20% chance of losing - my God - If he DID lose it is so catastophic that he can’t risk it - certainly not just for Clay Clay.

    If Stern thinks this legal stuff is to deep for him - I could see him telling Clay to forget the June court case - agree to abide by the lease - and then broker a deal with Ballmer ASAP. The Ballmer has to decide if he wants to buy with an uncertain arena situation.

    The timing of everything is tricky. I would speculate that if we had our arena act together right now - this thing would be over. I still contend Stern & Clay have no desire to go through the June court case but they might. But if we now add Howards lawsuit it becomes even less attractive to them - why bother suffering through that one if you see yourself caving on the next one anyway?

    That’s where if we could get our arena deal together it could tip things to a conclusion we all want.

    Man - the drama & ups & downs of this are amazing. Truen Professional soap Opera right here isn Seattle!

  52. Sonics fan in SLC Says:

    I 2nd the motion for a Slade Gorton statue. He has saved virtually every sports team in Seattle. Seriously, how did this guy get voted out of office?

  53. Clint Says:

    Just finished my first round of emails to media outlets…

    I hope that “the decision to leave Seattle was not made in haste” is able to be hammered home nationally by either Simmons, Adande, or Abbott…

    You guys think Mike & Mike would give this any airtime?

  54. Yoon Says:

    While I appreciate the opinions offered by various attorneys on this case, i’d love to hear an opinion from a judge or former judge. I mean let’s face it, in general, attorneys think they can sue over just about anything.

    Judges are attorneys too. There’s no reason to discount an attorney’s opinion if they have expertise or some experience in the field of law being discussed.

  55. 4020vision Says:

    Bad things that could happen…

    Simms, Prentice, or one of the other do nothing’s steps up and sides with Clay.

    League wins on Monday on their “Home Turf” of NY Courts.

    Stern is complimented by Gregoire in an e-mail where she admit’s she’s always had a thing for a man with a Napoleonic
    Complex

    Clay reveal’s an e-mail where he is told by the Mayor Nickles that he’s alway’s wanted to own a KOA in Flamming Arrow, Oklahoma.

    Aubrey does a one on one with Art Thiel for the PI stating his intention has been to move to Bellevue and be Acting GM of The Storm all along. His only reason for moving the Sonics is so The Storm could have Seattle all to itself.

    Anyone have anything else?

  56. SonicScott Says:

    Chalk up another point for the good guys. I’m pretty sure Clay is soiling himself on a daily basis. This thing is slowly unraveling before his eyes, and I’m sure he can see the Sonics now slipping through his greedy fingers.

    Thanks for the memories, Clay. Don’t let the door hit you in the behind.

    Here’s the best part. Now that he’s also putting the NBA’s rep. in jeopardy, he may end up getting banned completely by the league. Who knows. With this mess, he might not even wind up with an expansion team in OKC now.

    I LOVE IT!!!!

    GO SUPES!!!!

  57. RmcD Says:

    Do we honestly think they have used ALL their best ammo yet!!HAHAHAHAHA

    Stern and Bennett should be starring in the next Lunesta(Sleep Butterfly) Ad!!!

    Of Coarse they would be sharing a bed!!

  58. Patches Pal Says:

    I still want the emails and other records from the league office. As long as we have gone this far we need to rip Stern a new one.

  59. dave Says:

    I am loving this. Man, and to think I had a sinking feeling when I woke up for work because of stress…. Sayton is probably S#$%ING himself right now as we speak. btw where are Producer, tacodome and all the other OKCers on this fine thursday afternoon?

  60. Dick Tate Says:

    I saw some posts in the last thread where folks were saying Gregoire had promised to fund the other $75M next year. This was not the case. She promised to address the issue… along with about a dozen other issues that were standing in line for the proposed tax extension.

  61. Derek Says:

    I just hope nothing will come out showing that Schultz knew about Bennett’s early attempts to leave. I guess if I have any fear, that would be it.

  62. Brian Robinson Says:

    The leagues brief is very well written. I could see them winning on a number of those issues.

  63. McCoy Says:

    Either the City has a few more emails to release (leak) - or they are at the end of the line and they are now empty of bullets. Neither case would surprise me. I still think the best thing the City has going for it is opening the NBA’s books. I would guess a lot of hidden $ and tax breaks.

  64. Clint Says:

    4020vision - didn’t Doesn’t-have-a-degree-yet-holds-important-political-office Prentice already sort of step up and indirectly side with Clay last week? Maybe I read too much into her comments…

  65. seasonics Says:

    EVERYBODY,

    No way can we settle now right?

    HELL NO!

    THE BALL IS IN OUR COURT now..or should I say “key”

  66. sonicej Says:

    “The leagues brief is very well written. I could see them winning on a number of those issues.”

    What? What are you talking about? Please explain.

  67. TB Says:

    # Brian Robinson Says:
    April 24th, 2008 at 3:34 pm

    The leagues brief is very well written. I could see them winning on a number of those issues.

    Care to go into more detail?

  68. Stone Says:

    We are darned lucky that Bennett has an email system that keeps all of his records…and we are lucky these guys have absolutely no street smarts. Any crack dealer in America could have clued them in to the magic of the prepaid cell phone.

  69. CSB Says:

    Let’s just hope the lawyers bring their A game on Monday. I personally hope we have local counsel in NY that is well regarded.

  70. Sonics fan in SLC Says:

    I’m guessing that the league’s lawyers are better than Bennett’s lawyers. Not to mention more practiced in this kind of stuff. It is a good idea on the part of Schultz’s lawyers to leave the league out of their lawsuit. Let the city do the dirty work.

  71. Joshu@ Says:

    I think we need to understand that at this point…the stadium is a back burner issue.

  72. Vinny Says:

    If the city’s case gets dismissed before all the discovery becomes public, then I hope somebody will have enough time to hang out by Slades dumpster!

  73. TB Says:

    Stern works for the owners, right? So how does he have the right to tell us our arena’s not good enough? Couldn’t an owner just say “Well, this is where we’re playing. Deal with it.” Does Stern have the power to kick a team out of the NBA? I think not.

  74. Matthew Says:

    THIS… IS… AWESOME!!

    Seriously though, lets not get too excited. Brian seems to know something sobering and is trying to keep us from getting too high on the rollercoster. This is great news, but bad news for us could come at any moment.

  75. Myk Says:

    Stern works for the owners, right? So how does he have the right to tell us our arena’s not good enough? Couldn’t an owner just say “Well, this is where we’re playing. Deal with it.” Does Stern have the power to kick a team out of the NBA? I think not.

    - Balmer and Co don’t want to lose a ton of money each year either…

  76. Mr. Baker Says:

    The nba rule book pages in one of the ehibits says the commish says what is an acceptable venue, a standard. I do not think he can just say that all arenas have to be brand new.

  77. Brian Robinson Says:

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004371389_websonics24m.html

    There are links to the NBA’s court brief, the cities court brief, etc here. The NBA’s is very well written. If I read them both I could see the judge siding with them on several issues. I do however think they make Stern testify. I also could see them saying that either Bennett has to produce relevant documents to demonstrate financial hardship(his chief complaint) or that he can’t use it as a complaint.

    I’m no lawyer but I play one on the internet

  78. Dick Tate Says:

    Joshu@ Says:
    I think we need to understand that at this point…the stadium is a back burner issue.

    It better not. If Schultz won his case and the team was held in trust, what local buyer would come forward without an areena deal? It’d be the same scenario as two years ago.

  79. Frozenropers Says:

    I think we need to understand that at this point…the stadium is a back burner issue.

    I disagree, an Arena remodel has to be part of the solution, so the funding side needs to be addressed and should be addressed ASAP. The more logical/appealing solution you provide to the NBA the more likely David Stern is to move to your side of the equation. As long as there is no Arena solution sitting there, the less likely Seattle is to get a better settlement from the NBA.

    At the end of the day, the best solution is to settle before court, with the David Stern stepping in to preserve his dignity and the NBA’s reputation and push Bennett to sell the Sonics franchise to a local owner. In doing so, the City needs to provide the framework for this to happen and that includes having an Arena solution sitting on the table as a done deal.

  80. sonicej Says:

    thanks Brian.

  81. Mr. Baker Says:

    To the thread subject: I wouldn’t say you were soft Brian, I would say that you look for the good nature in people even if they do not have any. Remember your story about Bennett and Stern making a master plan for a win-win for Seattle and OKC? You were wrong for the right reasons.

    It is simple.

    I have clung to the words emminating from my radio by Howard Schultz, “good faith”, “side letter”, “deal breaker”, in his KJR interview. I have looked for a good faith effort from that first October day, and thought that the later he was with the palace plan the more he was not really going to try.
    He argued for arbitration to break the lease, as reported September 21, 2007. He took control November 1, 2006.
    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/332639_sonics22.html

    That isn’t a year, filing to break the lease and leave for the next season to be played in OKC the next year, is not a good faith best effort. You do not need emails to see this. It was in the paper, he was in court trying to leave. He had a letter with the league that the league let him out of.

    Here is Steve Kelley’s story from September 22, 2007
    Kelley makes some very good points about not believing Bennett, but the cold fact is that it had not been a year yet.

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/stevekelley/2003896365_kelley220.html

    I actually thought that since the side letter was to all of the owners it could be acted upon by any owner, I was wrong on that one point. Howard is the controlling party, just as Bennett is for the OKC group. It really did have to be Howard. It could have been BCOS that acted with Howard as the lead, but the Basketball Club of Seattle doesn’t have any money to take up the case, as he states in his court filing.

    September 21, 2007

    Pitchforks and Torches!
    SEATTLE - There has been a sentiment in various places that whenever something good or positive is happening with the Sonics Clayton Bennett finds a way to throw cold water on it, either by design or randomly. Today is no exception, in today’s Seattle Post-Intelligencer there is a story about odd couple Brian Robinson and Chris Van Dyk working on a plan to remodel part of the Seattle Center, build an arena, parking, revenue generating lease spaces to help pay for it, good times, great hopes … and on the same day what falls out of Clay Bennett’s ass? He has filed papers to demand arbitration in hopes of breaking a lease that expressly states that arbitration is NOT something the city has to agree to.

    Two quick things:
    I would not count this as part of the good faith effort he agreed to when he purchased the team less than 1 year ago, Howard.
    It is true, once you take your customers to court it’s tough to go back to a good relationship.
    . . .

    http://theseattlesupersonics.blogspot.com/2007/09/pitchforks-and-torches_21.html#links

  82. Vinny Says:

    It would be funny as hell if the City came out with a revamped drawing of the Pepsi Center/The Garden etc… and said they would build it if the team was sold back to a local owner. Purposely being vague about the funding, location, timetable etc…

  83. CSB Says:

    I have to agree with Brian.

    I read the city’s brief and was not impressed. In fact, the structure and grammar of the first sentence was just plain bad.

    Judges are often overworked and thus impatient. The last thing he or she wants to do is struggle to understand what the hell a side wants. Especially when most NY think we still live in forts out here.

  84. 4020vision Says:

    Clint,

    Yeah she did I’m just saying that I’m waiting for the press conference where she or one of the other “quick-witted intellectual’s” comes out and say’s directly what she/they’ve said indirectly.

    That and the court decision I was serious about the rest I was just goofing!

  85. SanDiegoCdime Says:

    I hope David Stern does get deposed. If he sounds anything like he did on “Mike and Mike in the Morning” then he doesn’t stand a snowballs chance in hell making it through a deposition. Sounds like good news to me. Go SEATTLE Sonics! Making noise ‘08 and beyond.

  86. TB Says:

    BAKE SALE! BAKE SALE! BAKE SALE!

  87. Yoon Says:

    Judges are often overworked and thus impatient. The last thing he or she wants to do is struggle to understand what the hell a side wants. Especially when most NY think we still live in forts out here.

    Please note that the briefs were filed in Pechman’s court (WA federal judge), not in a New York court. Also note that judges are generally in favor of allowing depositions and discovery of information unless there are very compelling reasons for not doing so.

  88. Joshu@ Says:

    What I am saying Dick, is that we need to worry about getting the team back.

    As far as the arena goes, i think we can get an upgraded key package done. The reality is, the package that was being offered Howard and Stern when they went to Olympia was fine.

  89. lemonverbena Says:

    “I think we need to understand that at this point…the stadium is a back burner issue.” [Joshu]

    That’s why I think we need to keep the pressure on and the ideas flowing. If an actual arena package is in place, and Ballmer/Griffin et al sign on officially, that would tip the scales in a big way. Right now it’s still a bunch of politicians that can’t get out of their own way.

  90. JeffGreen! Says:

    Cut and dried?

    Sounds like what my homies do down in Southern Cal.

    If ya get my drift :)

  91. Andrew13 Says:

    On the lines of what Yoon was saying, I spoke to my father who was an attorney for around 20 years, and he also made the point that it is very difficult for discovery motions to be stopped.

    Looking at the bigger picture, I have to wonder what the NBA is so afraid about if they have nothing to hide…Obviously the league financial records are part of the reason but I’m real interested in seeing those internal emails about good faith.

  92. Hambone Says:

    After reading why the commissioner should not be subpoenaed, I still have hope that we’ll be allowed to depose him.

    The NBA’s only argument is that Litvin knows all the same information as Stern. Which is true, except for one thing, the personal friendship between Dude and Clod. So the Judge has got to see that he can provide some unique light on the situation, if allowed to testify.

    Others have already said this, but this is the best drama ever. If my heart lasts, I won’t have to watch TV for a year.

  93. bobfish Says:

    Has any of this new information been discussed in the national media yet? It would be interesting to get a less biased opinion on everything.

  94. Patches Pal Says:

    I think that since the NBA is fighting the discovery and it was scheduled to be complete by April 30th, there will be a delay in the case.

  95. Stone Says:

    You have to expect that the NBA has a huge team of lawyers working on this. I don’t think it really effects the case how well they are written so much as to how pertinent the information is to the case. Implying that the city is harassing Stern is downright laughable.

  96. Vinny Says:

    Is the NBA stalling in order to destroy/edit/alter evidence?

  97. Clint Says:

    again…

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA @ Clay Bennett!

  98. CSB Says:

    Doesn’t the article or was it an earlier thread state that motions would be heard in NY on Monday?

    My primary point was that the brief lacked the punch it should have had.

  99. Yoon Says:

    Doesn’t the article or was it an earlier thread state that motions would be heard in NY on Monday?

    My primary point was that the brief lacked the punch it should have had.

    I think what you are thinking about is that the deposition would be held on Monday in New York, but that doesn’t mean that it is in a NY court…they can basically do a depo anywhere.

    The brief, although not the best ever, will still likely be enough to establish the need for Stern’s depo, and possibly the discovery of additional emails.

  100. Patches Pal Says:

    The NBA argues that the Discovery is “unduly burdensome, irrelevant to the specific performance clause of the lease and discloses highly sensitive, confidential information.” I don’t think that is going to cut it. The city may need to show the court what they expect to find and how they will use it in their case.

    The Schultz case has been assigned to Judge Marsha Pechman, as well. She will handle both cases and may consolidate them if the attorneys request it.

  101. T Says:

    “I saw some posts in the last thread where folks were saying Gregoire had promised to fund the other $75M next year. This was not the case. She promised to address the issue… along with about a dozen other issues that were standing in line for the proposed tax extension. ”

    You may be right but I specifically remember her saying that next session shes sure the votes would be there. I promise I rememeber that!
    But once again makes me realize she is not our go to person on this!

  102. Dick Tate Says:

    Joshu@ Says:
    What I am saying Dick, is that we need to worry about getting the team back.

    As far as the arena goes, i think we can get an upgraded key package done. The reality is, the package that was being offered Howard and Stern when they went to Olympia was fine.

    It wasn’t fine with the legislature. It’s the chicken or the egg. The legislature failed two years ago, they failed this year, and there’s a pretty good chance they will fail again next year. The point is, no local buyer - Ballmer group included, will buy the team without an arena deal.

  103. Dick Tate Says:

    Italics f-up.

  104. Vinny Says:

    Wasn’t Judge Marsha Pechman the original Judge in this case and then Clay turned around and requested another Judge right off the bat?

  105. CSB Says:

    Yoon -

    “A hearing on the dispute is set for Monday in New York City.”

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004371389_websonics24m.html

  106. Cage44 Says:

    This may have been discussed already, but was Sterndog so smug and short with the media (especially Chris Daniels) on Friday because he knew that was his chance to portray what he wanted, knowing Seattle had so much dirt on the “Semi”-I mean “Professional Basketball Club.” Clay and Stern had to see this coming.

  107. Joshu@ Says:

    You guys also have to remember that the only reason the Howard failed in Oly was because the was only going to throw in sub-20 mil. Ballmer group is a totally different story. I really feel that if we have a full session to get something done, everything will pull through. Had the Ballmer package been offered 2 or 3 years ago it would have passed.

  108. TJKK Says:

    Has anyone read this new story by Jerry Brewer from the times? HILARIOUS. I had to read it twice it was so funny. (Especially the McClendon section). Sounds like Clay’s comments about the media have spawned a new war between he and our local journalists:

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/jerrybrewer/2004369714_brewer24.html

  109. El Presidente Says:

    Quick question.

    This has probably been discussed here, but I honestly have time to read all 500 posts everyday (good job btw guys)

    So lets say Seattle wins the case, or it’s delayed and the Sonics play here next year.

    During that time, we approve funding for a new or remodeled building.

    When Clays relocation window is up (1 year) do you think the NBA owners force him to stay here?

    Even though Seattle is going to bloody up the NBA, Bennett and anyone else on their side, they have always stated that they wanted the team here if the building is done.

    So if we make a huge mess of this, get a building approved before Clay’s 1 year window….what does the NBA do at that point?

    Thanks for your input on this.

  110. Clint Says:

    Vinny - I think the original judge was some guy who made a reference Shaq making a free throw in regard to the Sonics chances of winning or something…?

  111. Patches Pal Says:

    I think they went thru a couple judges before they gave the case to Judge Pechman.

    Marsha J. Pechman

    Another Ninth Circuit district court vacancy has been filled with the confirmation of King County, Washington, Superior Court Judge Marsha Pechman to the bench on September 8, 1999. She will fill the position to be vacated by Judge William Dwyer, who is retiring as United States district judge for the Western District of Washington.

    Senators Patty Murray (D-Wash.) and Slade Gorton (R-Wash.) in January picked Pechman with the help of a 12-member panel and sent her name to the White House for an FBI check. President Clinton nominated Judge Pechman on March 24.

    Judge Pechman, 48, of Seattle, has served on the King County bench since 1988. Prior to that, she worked as a deputy prosecutor with the King County Prosecutor’s office, as an associate and partner with Levinson, Friedman, Vhugen, Duggan, Bland and Horwitz, and as a law professor at the University of Puget Sound and the University of Washington.

    Judge Pechman earned her undergraduate degree from Cornell University in 1973 and her law degree from Boston University in 1976.

  112. T Says:

    Stern is such a stubborn ass. Hes really gonna stand by and not only let, but help, our team of 41 years get taken away from us. Weve bought and watched his product for years and most of us have fallen in love with our Sonics and we deserve to continue that for years to come but instead he would rather side with his BFF Clay Clay and let our team be stolen-to go to OKC of all places. Sad.
    I have been following the developments every second of every day its like an addiction and all of these emails sure make me happy but I cant help but feel there could be some bad stuff coming our way too. Hopefully not though-keep it up Howie!

  113. Yoon Says:

    Yoon -

    “A hearing on the dispute is set for Monday in New York City.”

    I saw that as well, but I’m not sure it is correct as both briefs were filed in Judge Pechman’s court. However, there could be some kind of stipulation in some contract that the NBA is allowed to choose the forum for these types of disputes. I guess we’ll see what happens on Monday.

  114. JamminJ Says:

    “Couldn’t an owner just say “Well, this is where we’re playing. Deal with it.” Does Stern have the power to kick a team out of the NBA? I think not.

    - Balmer and Co don’t want to lose a ton of money each year either… ”

    ———-

    isn’t part of the problem the lease itself is unfavorable? couldn’t they do a $75M less of an arena upgrade, and work out a lease that makes it more favorable (if all parties agree). there still is I-91 that would have to be worked out. But why can’t it be done without the extra 75M?

  115. Vinny Says:

    Keep goin’ and see who is the first to run out of ammo.

  116. Seasontixsince69 Says:

    Clint Says:

    April 24th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
    Vinny - I think the original judge was some guy who made a reference Shaq making a free throw in regard to the Sonics chances of winning or something…?

    —————–
    Judge Martinez ruled that the lease case could NOT be settled by arbitration — and that it (the lease case) had to go to trial.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3085985

  117. Otto Says:

    Anyone want to sue OKC for tampering?

    Another email:

    “Is [OKC City Manager] Jim Couch aware of plans to start negotiations with the City of Seattle? The reason I ask is that it will get out [everything does in Seattle] and the media will call … We want to be sure we have it teed up and framed with them.”

  118. Sonics fan in SLC Says:

    You know, the NBA really doesn’t have any reason to be mad about the city filling these lawsuits. What did they expect us to do? Rollover and them steal our team? If anything this should show that we want the NBA in our city and we are willing to fight for it. And once we remove these idiot politicians, we will take care of business and get the Key Arena remodeled!

  119. CSB Says:

    Yoon -

    Or the Seattle Times made a mistake.

    It has been a long time since I had to compel a dep - perhaps federal rules stipulate that although the motions are filed with the trial judge, the motion needs to be heard where 30(b)(6) deponent resides. That just sounds wrong though.

  120. Laporbo Says:

    I agree that the city hasn’t shot its wad yet. Don’t need to. All you have to do is put out bits and pieces. Get Bennett and Co. thinking about things.

    CB: “Yeah, I do remember writing that to Aubrey. Then Aubrey wrote back saying blahblahblah. Then I answered him by saying….. OH CRAP!”

    Same with Stern.

    The fear of whats to come is very powerful.

    4020: Prentice has already sided with Clay. They are homies now.

  121. Brian Robinson Says:

    Hands down the funniest part of Brewers article is the e-mail addresses he made up for Clay and the boys.

  122. Otto Says:

    Mike Sherman asking readers to give him names for the new NBA franchise:

    http://tinyurl.com/5hfcgf

    Talk about getting ahead of yourselves.

  123. Guess Who Says:

    The city’s motion was written by the K & L Gates office in NYC with no doubt help from their office in Seattle. K & L Gates attorneys in NYC will be on par with the NBA’s attorneys.

    And I think we all have to realize that the court will not side with the city on every motion. So far, the city has done very well.

    I expect the court to force the NBA to release at least part of the requested documents as well as making Stern testify.

  124. Brian Robinson Says:

    I don’t blame OKC. From their perspective they have the team. Pretty cool jersey actually. Their consolation NBDL team can use it.

  125. Laporbo Says:

    Where is the jersey picture?

  126. Hambone Says:

    OMG, Brewer’s article is the funniest thing I’ve read in a long time. And there have been lots of funny articles on this subject recently.

    I thought the funniest part was the “flip” to the bad guys at the end.

  127. Laporbo Says:

    And where is the Percy Allen piece? Did he get scooped by the Times?

  128. john Says:

    So when ballmer is the new owner of the team…can we have a contest to decide new jersey design. i was thinking black, gold and dark green. and the logo should be a computer cause thats wats gonna save the supes

  129. john Says:

    So when ballmer is the new owner of the team…can we have a contest to decide new jersey design. i was thinking black, gold and dark green. and the logo should be a computer cause thats wats gonna save the supes

  130. Joshu@ Says:

    Where can you see the jersey?

  131. Sam K Says:

    Can we just go back to the pre-1995 jerseys with the skyline? Those are the coolest things ever.

  132. Craig B Says:

    Taking care of business the old fashioned way - with lawyers ;-)

    Has anyone weighed in on the what the burden of proof for fraud in Shultz’s case will be? I am under the impression that because this is a civil suit, the defendant is considered guilty and has the burden of proving otherwise. Given that Bennett really IS guilty, it would seem unlikely that he could ‘prove’ beyond a reasonable doubt otherwise.

  133. Hector Says:

    Generally the standard of proof in civil cases is preponderance of the evidence — i.e., more likely than not (51/49) that the complained of conduct occurred. Fraud claims often have higher burdens on certain things, but I’d have to check how that applies here.

  134. James Says:

    Count me in for the pre-1995 jerseys with the skyline. Very cool, and who wants to be reminded about this mess when it’s all said and done.

  135. Laporbo Says:

    Ok, I feel bad and so should the rest of you.

    Can we please stop harrassing Stern and the NBA?

    Come on!!!

  136. Otto Says:

    Sports Editor of the Oklahoman putting in a swipe at seattle:

    Speaking of olive branches, I was going to throw one out to the Emerald City by mentioning that my insurance carrier just happens to an 85-year-old Seattle institution known as Safeco. Then I saw where Liberty Mutual is buying Safeco and could be moving jobs to Boston.

    Let me know when the Save Our Safeco movement begins and I’m in.

  137. Matthew Says:

    “I don’t blame OKC. From their perspective they have the team. Pretty cool jersey actually. Their consolation NBDL team can use it.”

    LMAO!

  138. TJKK Says:

    How do you think this all affects the draft? With all this dirty laundry being aired, I feel more and more as if the lottery process may be rigged. I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see the Sonics mysteriously granted the 4th or 5th pick despite our top 3 odds.

  139. Yoon Says:

    Yoon -

    Or the Seattle Times made a mistake.

    It has been a long time since I had to compel a dep - perhaps federal rules stipulate that although the motions are filed with the trial judge, the motion needs to be heard where 30(b)(6) deponent resides. That just sounds wrong though.

    I found it odd as well, although I don’t have much experience with federal courts. Hector, do you have any insight?

  140. mojojuee Says:

    Actually guys - these emails are not enough. I’m totally convinced Clayton sounds like Satan is evil, but these emails are not enough in a court of law. They are juicy fodder for media, but when it comes to the courtroom they will not cause a 350 million reversal. I wanted it so bad, but my heart knows better. Maybe there is more - that would be grand.

  141. Free Says:

    The Oklahoma Village Idiots.

  142. Otto Says:

    Why are the emails not enough?

  143. Bennith13 Says:

    Yeah, count me in the on the pre 95 jerseys as well. Maybe mix in the new style shorts we have with the pre 95 tops, but all in the pre 95 colors.

  144. Hector Says:

    As I thought, the burden for fraud is a bit higher than normal civil matters. Here are the legal standards from the state’s pattern jury instructions:

    There are nine essential elements of fraud. Each element of fraud must be established by clear, cogent, and convincing evidence. The nine elements of fraud are:
    (1) Representation of an existing fact;
    (2) Materiality of the representation;
    (3) Falsity of the representation;
    (4) The speaker’s knowledge of its falsity;
    (5) The speaker’s intent that it be acted upon by the plaintiff;
    (6) Plaintiff’s ignorance of the falsity;
    (7) Plaintiff’s reliance on the truth of the representation;
    (8) Plaintiff’s right to rely upon it; and
    (9) Resulting damages.

    “Clear, cogent, and convincing evidence” denotes a quantum of evidence or degree of proof greater than a mere preponderance, but something less than proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Several commentators have suggested that this standard could be more simply and intelligently “translated” to the jury, if jurors were instructed that they must be persuaded that the truth of the contention is “highly probable.”

  145. Hector Says:

    Yoon, I have no experience with 30(b)(6) in federal court.

    mojojuee — the emails, in the hands of a skillful lawyer, and combined with depositions and other stuff, could well be enough.

  146. Dick Tate Says:

    Otto Says:
    Why are the emails not enough?

    http://www.law.com/jsp/legaltechnology/pubArticleLT.jsp?id=1186736525985

  147. lemonverbena Says:

    “Actually guys - these emails are not enough. I’m totally convinced Clayton sounds like Satan is evil, but these emails are not enough in a court of law. They are juicy fodder for media, but when it comes to the courtroom they will not cause a 350 million reversal. I wanted it so bad, but my heart knows better. Maybe there is more - that would be grand.” [mojo]

    Don’t lose focus of the lease-enforcement suit. If the City wins that suit, the Schultz suit is just another looming threat the adds up to Bennett forced to sell.

    Dig in, folks! We’re in it to win it and SAVE OUR SONICS!!

  148. Otto Says:

    All that says you have to prove what was written on that email wasn’t altered, and you have to jump through a few more hoops. Did not see anything showing that emails are not enough to destroy someone’s case.

  149. Joshu@ Says:

    He is making his statements not based on legal fact, but on his assumptions…

  150. mojojuee Says:

    Don’t buy it guys - there is no preponderance of anything, except that we all know it in our hearts. But a jury would have to decide only on a few vague emails.

    Fraud is a tough one. It only matters what they thought BEFORE they bought hte team right - isn’t this fraud at hte time of signing? They could argue they changed their mind. While that is complete BS, you would still have to prove it otherwise. They did get turned down on a 500K arena.

  151. Yoon Says:

    Otto Says:
    Why are the emails not enough?

    http://www.law.com/jsp/legaltechnology/pubArticleLT.jsp?id=1186736525985

    Dick, none of the potential problems with emails-as-evidence in that article seem to apply in this case. Hearsay doesn’t appear to be an issue nor does authentication.

  152. Yoon Says:

    Don’t buy it guys - there is no preponderance of anything, except that we all know it in our hearts. But a jury would have to decide only on a few vague emails.

    Fraud is a tough one. It only matters what they thought BEFORE they bought hte team right - isn’t this fraud at hte time of signing? They could argue they changed their mind. While that is complete BS, you would still have to prove it otherwise. They did get turned down on a 500K arena.

    I’m going to wait to see what the court decides instead of whatever you may be feeling “in your heart” at the moment. Your argument about fraud makes no sense so I’m not going to bother addressing it.

  153. mojojuee Says:

    we need a real smoking gun - not a water pistol

  154. lemonverbena Says:

    “Can we just go back to the pre-1995 jerseys with the skyline? Those are the coolest things ever.”

    I’m down for the skyline arched-lettering unis, but dream of the Supes rocking this old-school gear when we wrench them from Clay’s greasy clutches: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2008/04/15/2004351717.jpg

    Awesome.

  155. mojojuee Says:

    OK Yoon, I’ll wait as well and not bother with your opinion either.

  156. Otto Says:

    You think these emails are a water pistol? What more of a ’smoking’ gun do you need?

  157. Pete Says:

    My favorite logo is definitely the skyline within the basketball.

  158. mojojuee Says:

    You need him actually saying: “OK we got the jerk to believe us, now let’s tease them for a bit and move the team no matter what.” They don’t really say that. It only indicates they considered a move all along - not “decided” on one - but considered one. Obviously Audrey MclenDONG spilled the beans, but the arguments isolating him worked pretty well.

  159. Hambone Says:

    “…we all know it in our hearts.”

    What kind of person are you to tell me what I know in my heart? You do not know me. I can only assume that by “we” you must mean “them”. Are you one of them, mojojuee? I doubt it. Don’t give up.

    I know in my heart that this thing is still far from concluded.

  160. mojojuee Says:

    OK guys I think I’ve been misinterpreted. I meant to say we all “know that Clayton is evil in our hearts” and we know that he is lying. I’m just saying knowing deep down in our bones is not enough. I wish the proof was better.

  161. mojojuee Says:

    I live in Portland now, grew up in Burien and lived in the area for 26 years. follow the sonics religious on Season Pass - I’m ready to fight, I was just expressing a desire for more damning evidence - this stuff is just embarrasing, not damning. I hope I’m wrong.

  162. Brad Says:

    so we should know by Monday what Seattle’s chances of winning are?

  163. brett b Says:

    Uh, mojo, what more proof do you need? The fact that Aubrey spilled the beans is relevant, because the suit is against the entire Okie group, not just Bennett, so that shoots down your entire argument.

  164. Dick Tate Says:

    mojojuee Says:
    Fraud is a tough one. It only matters what they thought BEFORE they bought hte team right - isn’t this fraud at hte time of signing? They could argue they changed their mind. While that is complete BS, you would still have to prove it otherwise. They did get turned down on a 500K arena

    That’s a pretty good point. The “sweet flip” email starts with “If we are successful”. That would tend to indicate the intent to get the arena deal done.

    The only really damaging evidence (imo) is the McClendon statement. I do think many of those emails will have trouble passing the Hearsay test.

  165. Joshu@ Says:

    The emails are not alone. We also have Aubrey’s statments as well. Not to mention the fact that emails are what is going to get David Stern into depo….Oh and YARMUTH….need I say more.

  166. Free Says:

    I think we are all assuming/hoping that there is further evidence that backs up the emials. Circumstantial evidence can actually be very powerful and show consistency in an argument. i think Brian’s paper trail with Clay could prove to be a very powerful weapon for the City in particular, and possibly schultz too.

  167. JeffGreen! Says:

    I wanna see Satan Bennett and David Stern squirm like worms.

    So far so good. :)

  168. James B. Says:

    Maybe everyone has seen this already, but, I hadn’t… Here’s the pdf link for Schult’s case. Interesting stuff:

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2008/04/22/2004366926.pdf

  169. Otto Says:

    It appears that the emails would pass the hearsay test.

  170. Hambone Says:

    “OK guys I think I’ve been misinterpreted. I meant to say we all “know that Clayton is evil in our hearts” ” –Mojojuee

    OK.

  171. JeffGreen! Says:

    I just got word from my inside source the OKC Cowboys will be the team name if they steal our Sonics.

    Which wont happen because GOD is on our side.

  172. Pete Says:

    Free-

    Brian has a paper trail with Bennett?

  173. Guest/Too Says:

    Brian
    IIRC the timeframe in the Purchase and Sale contract is much less clear cut on the obligation for Clay to pursue arena deals in good faith.

    Rather than 12months, doesn’t it say “1 to 12 months” ?!

    Strange wording and what the parties actually intended is certainly up for debate

  174. Laporbo Says:

    I was wondering the same thing about the wording of “1 to 12 months”. I figured it was legalease for 1 year. Any of the law types have an opinion?

  175. Mr. Baker Says:

    The city is doing a lot of work that helps Howard’s case. They presented, or filed, stuff that went right into Howard’s filing since it was then public knowledge. Howard’s case reaches before the sale by him, that information is slightly different and will provide different sorts of questions to be asked.
    The city is questioning the representation of dealing in finances (the hardship) they share finances with the league; Howard’s goes to dealings as persons and owners; the fan court case (never forget about the fans) goes to dealing with the customer.
    The re-application to relocate to okc is being deconstruced.

  176. James B. Says:

    “Seattle has the most inept and difficult sports media of any major market.”–Clay Bennett.

    [don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk]

    Some of the e-mail quotes are pretty interesting and others are just plain irrelevant to the case. That makes it amusing. Your honor, this e-mail seems to prove that Clay Bennett was a doushbag from the very beginning.

  177. guest/too Says:

    Laporbo
    I’m not an Attorney, but I have much more experience in and around this realm than I care to admit.
    It isnt any “legalese” I have encountered.
    The arguement probably would center around what the parties intended and was there a meeting of the minds. I mentioned this a few days ago… but this is where previous drafts of the Contract could be illuminative. Who wrote this and was this language altered during negotiations?
    On its face, strictly as written, I think it supports Clay. He could say he tried for 1month, got no positive feedback and turned to planB.

  178. csb Says:

    Hector -

    It looks like elements 3 and 4 are the keys to the kingdom.
    (3) Falsity of the representation;
    (4) The speaker’s knowledge of its falsity;

    The other elements seem pretty self-evident/strong.

  179. Jaz Says:

    Mr Robinson said: “I’m no lawyer but I play one on the internet”

    Don’t we all? I think a lot of us “common-sense seat-of-the-pants home lawyers” would be quite surprised by the goings-on in law and how things are decided.

  180. Guest Says:

    Stop worrying.

    Stern will testify. The NBA e-mails will be produced. The e-mail will pass the “hearsay test”.

    This is a real case. It goes the distance. Howard could very well win.

    But, he doesnt have to, The case is further leverage. There will be a deal.

  181. SeattleFan91 Says:

    I don’t see where it says 1 - 12 months…..???

    Howard and Clay’s sales agreement

    “Franchise Purchase Agreement” (page 73)
    Article V, “Other Agreements and Covenants”
    5.3., “Puget Sound Area Lease” (page 108)
    “For a period of 12 months after the Closing Date, Buyer shall use good faith best efforts to negotiate an arena lease, purchase, use or similar arrangement in King, Pierce or Snohomish Counties of Washington as a venue for the Teams’ games, to be used as a successor venue to KeyArena; provided, however, that the process described in this section 5.3 and the entering into of such arena lease, purchase, use or similar arrangement shall be at Buyer’s sole discretion.”

    http://sonicscentral.com/blog/?p=1853

  182. Joshu@ Says:

    “Stop worrying.

    Stern will testify. The NBA e-mails will be produced. The e-mail will pass the “hearsay test”.

    This is a real case. It goes the distance. Howard could very well win.

    But, he doesnt have to, The case is further leverage. There will be a deal.”

    Ditto

  183. coffeestain Says:

    According to one lawyer fraud cases are hard prove because of evidence, this case is different because of the emails.

  184. Versio Says:

    I tend to agree with Mojo - this is all great stuff, BUT for some reason it just doesn’t feel enough. They never actually wrote an email that outlined a perfect crime. they are just snippets that can be spun or interpreted.

    Then again, i agree with Jeff Green! who posted earlier “God is on our side!!!”

  185. SonicComic Says:

    Otto, sure would be nice if someone… anyone in the OKC camp could testify that yes… they heard the owners talk about moving the team to OKC way back on such and such a date.

  186. Kivman Says:

    “How do you think this all affects the draft? With all this dirty laundry being aired, I feel more and more as if the lottery process may be rigged. I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see the Sonics mysteriously granted the 4th or 5th pick despite our top 3 odds.”

    I was thinking the same thing. Basically, if the Sonics end up with pick #5, I’ll be convinced Stern-y rigs the draft. But if he thinks Clay will win this thing, he’ll make sure the Sonics are top 2 again. Arghhhh. This is so frustrating….

  187. coffeestain Says:

    Blamer and or B2 need to show the courts what good faith and understanding of this community can do..
    any word from B2?

  188. SonicComic Says:

    You think these emails are a water pistol? What more of a ’smoking’ gun do you need?

    Otto, sure would be nice if someone… anyone in the OKC camp could testify that yes… they heard the owners talk about moving the team to OKC way back on such and such a date.

  189. Paul Says:

    Read the link at the last paragraph on what Stern said about Seattle Sonics will be in OKC.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/specials/playoffs/2008/04/24/stern.lebron.ap/index.html

    Stern thinks his authority is above the judicial system?!? He has sunk himself into a deeper hole.

  190. JamminJ Says:

    “Otto, sure would be nice if someone… anyone in the OKC camp could testify that yes… they heard the owners talk about moving the team to OKC way back on such and such a date.”

    hmmm, remember a few days back, mitch talked about one of the OKC owners that dropped out, ed evans. would be great if he was the final smoking gun.

  191. Joshu@ Says:

    “any word from B2?”

    They are asking Dr. Evil for the ONE BILLION DOLLARSSS!!!! Ok, so I hate Austin Powers…but I couldn’t resist. Also, Dr. Evil said he’d throw in Mini Me to play PG even, since we only have Earl and Luke.

  192. save the sonics, save the world Says:

    how do you think the rest of the fans would think if they find out the league is involved with liars and dirty tactics. Anyone eles wonder why the NBA is the only LEAGUE to contain a CLOSED lottery system….

  193. The Ghost of Steve Scheffler Says:

    Well, Joshua, that could work. They do live at the Space Needle.

  194. glennpdx Says:

    Guest. You got it. This is about leverage, not the absolute prospect of winning at trial. While it’s at least conceivable that the city’s case could go to trial in June, the Schultz case will not. It is at least a year away, and maybe even much longer than that. This will be long over by then. It’s a stare down now, with Bennett/Stern increasingly likely to be the ones to blink first. The stakes are getting too high for both of them…

    Got my ‘Screw Clay’ shirt today. Another good day for a Sonics fan…

  195. Joshu@ Says:

    “Well, Joshua, that could work. They do live at the Space Needle.”

    Hehehehehe…that joke worked out better than I though….right on ghost….right on!

  196. glennpdx Says:

    Oh, yeah, forgot to say:

    Hey, Clay, how’s it going this evening!

  197. Stone Says:

    On an unrelated note Austin Powers IV is in preproduction. Hope it is better then Goldmember.

  198. Laporbo Says:

    On the 12 month debate:

    For some reason I can’t find the PDF of the purchase agreement but it said this -

    “for a period of 1 to 12 months after the Closing Date, Buyer shall use good failt best efforts…”

    The side letter should speak to what the intent was -
    “Our commitment to you to use our good faith best efforts over the coming year…”
    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2008/04/23/2004367575.pdf

  199. Kory Says:

    Check out the Oklahoman…..This Durant jersey makes me sick.

    http://newsok.com/sports/nbainokc/

    We may want to voice our opinion.

  200. Joshu@ Says:

    Ummm…that jersey is ugly…I didn’t know that any players name Durant were in the D-League.

  201. Joshu@ Says:

    or better yet the OKC Womens Detention Facility league…

  202. The Ghost of Steve Scheffler Says:

    http://tiny.cc/VeYkW

    Stumbled across this old story while looking back at I-91. I’m having a hard time reconciling this with the latest emails. If he had pondered this for some time…I’d have to guess that began in May, June 2006…somewhere in there.

  203. Laporbo Says:

    Not like lying is a shock but found this today.

    Straight from the Sonics website. The story is gone but the picture and caption are still there.

    “We plan to come back on a regular, frequent schedule and reach out to really anyone who’s interested in talking to us.”

    Obvious lies. He DID NOT come back on a regular frequent schedule and he DID NOT reach out to anyone who was interested in talking to him. He ignored or blew them off.

    http://www.nba.com/sonics/news/bennett060809.html

    I think the picture is telling. He’s looking at the Sonics shirts thinking, one of two things:

    1) Haha, yeah, the SEATTLE Sonics. Right. Little do they know.

    2) I got a mint here. These will be collectors items when the Seattle Sonics don’t exist.

  204. csb Says:

    A quiet moment of thanks to Mr. Swift Boat whose loose lips launched our thousand ships. Without him….

  205. Laporbo Says:

    Or

    3) XL? Like I’m gonna fit in that.

  206. brett Says:

    Mods - James B’s post at 6:28 with all the A’s in it (and for the record I agree with him - Bennett is a crybaby) needs to be edited. The long Waaa is screwing up the format on the page and all the posts are to the left of the margin to compensate. Anyone else seeing this?

    Thanks in advance.

  207. Kory Says:

    It’s funny how the Oklahoma media is ignoring ESPN’s take and the additional events that are currently going on out here. It just goes to show what kind of ties that Clay and his wife have to the media in OKC.

    There big story right now, besides the 64 team name bracket is “Seattle may be warming to Sonics settlement”. They must be drinking that moonshine laced with Meth again.

  208. SeattleFan91 Says:

    On the 12 month debate:

    For some reason I can’t find the PDF of the purchase agreement but it said this -

    “for a period of 1 to 12 months after the Closing Date, Buyer shall use good failt best efforts…”

    The side letter should speak to what the intent was -
    “Our commitment to you to use our good faith best efforts over the coming year…”
    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2008/04/23/2004367575.pdf
    ———————————————————————
    Howard and Clay’s sales agreement

    “Franchise Purchase Agreement” (page 73)
    Article V, “Other Agreements and Covenants”
    5.3., “Puget Sound Area Lease” (page 108)
    “For a period of 12 months after the Closing Date, Buyer shall use good faith best efforts to negotiate an arena lease, purchase, use or similar arrangement in King, Pierce or Snohomish Counties of Washington as a venue for the Teams’ games, to be used as a successor venue to KeyArena; provided, however, that the process described in this section 5.3 and the entering into of such arena lease, purchase, use or similar arrangement shall be at Buyer’s sole discretion.”

    http://sonicscentral.com/blog/?p=1853

    http://www.king5.com/sharedcontent/northwest/pdf/4-Lawrence-exhibits3.pdf

  209. Patches Pal Says:

    What we really need is an email from Stern or Bennett outlining the plan prior to the sale. Something like this.
    1. Outbid everyone for the team.
    2. Run off all the old guys and dump the stars.
    3. Buy out the lease
    4. Move to OKC.

    OK, OK,
    2B. Make a half hearted attempt at a new building.

  210. glennpdx Says:

    I will know the Schultz case is in trouble when we see this email:

    To: Clay
    From: Aubrey

    I’m dying for good news about Seattle. Let’s go ahead and build an arena there if the locals can’t do it. It’s such a great city and a huge market for our NBA team. Let me know if I can write a check to make that happen.

  211. AK1984 Says:

    The Oklahoma City Barons road jersey is actually a pretty tight design, with the black and brown color scheme creating a cool look.

    Personally, though, the Seattle Mariners alternate teal jersey from the mid-’90s is my favorite uniform in professional sports history.

  212. maand1 Says:

    Screw Bennett, he will not get away with this, this team is staying in Seattle now.

    what I don’t understand is how David Stern can let this happen….taking a team from Seattle that has been a part of the City for 41 years…

    Why doesn’t he just give OKC an Expansion team…

  213. T Says:

    1.does anyone remember sometime last yr when mayor nichols called bennett to have a meeting and bennett didn’t return his calls? Did that really happen and can that be used in court? 2. Good point about that guy who dropped out of bennetts group.do u think schultz will be talking to him for his case?

  214. T Says:

    1.does anyone remember sometime last yr when mayor nichols called bennett to have a meeting and bennett didn’t return his calls? Did that really happen and can that be used in court? 2. Good point about that guy who dropped out of bennetts group.do u think schultz will be talking to him for his case?

  215. T Says:

    1.does anyone remember sometime last yr when mayor nichols called bennett to have a meeting and bennett didn’t return his calls? Did that really happen and can that be used in court? 2. Good point about that guy who dropped out of bennetts group.do u think schultz will be talking to him for his case?

  216. EJ Says:

    “I wish it weren’t in litigation,” Stern said. “But we’re prepared to abide by the litigation. I think that eventually whether it’s now or two years from now, the Seattle Sonics will be in Oklahoma City.”

    Wow. Just wow.

    I hope that little bitch ass smurf gets his ass handed to him.

  217. charliesonic Says:

    did you all ever see the spongebob cartoon where plankton takes over the reef and his zombified minions walk around doing his bidding?

    if slade gorton wanted me to, i’d walk around w/a chum bucket on my head, intoning: “all — hail — gorton!”

  218. glennpdx Says:

    For any of you in doubt about whether Stern and Bennett orchestrated this from Day One, read this bit of analysis out of Oklahoma in March 2006:

    http://www.dustbury.com/vent/vent477.html

    Nice summary of where this all began, wouldn’t you say???

  219. glennpdx Says:

    And the Hornets stay in NO because Stern hates him and wants to punish him. Petty, petty little man… and an abuse of power…

  220. Bennith13 Says:

    Has anyone heard the promo running on KJR where Mitch asks Bennett a question and Clay just stutters? Does anyone know if that is real? I laugh every time I hear that.

  221. Clint Says:

    David Stern, today on the SI website:

    “I wish it weren’t in litigation,” Stern said. “But we’re prepared to abide by the litigation. I think that eventually whether it’s now or two years from now, the Seattle Sonics will be in Oklahoma City.”

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/specials/playoffs/2008/04/24/stern.lebron.ap/index.html

  222. courtsense Says:

    My best guess is this:

    Monday’s hearing is huge. If the judge orders that Stern can be deposed, then the Commission-er will have to choose between either lying under oath, or actively seeking a solution with the City to call off the lawsuit. We know Gorton has more emails than have been released, and Stern himself probably doesn’t remember everything he and Bennett discussed privately.

    Gorton will ask Stern questions under oath for the deposition, then when it goes to trial, and Stern testifies, Gorton will pull out emails that directly contradict the lies Stern already told. Then Gorton will ask “were you lying then or are you lying now?” Ditto for Bennett.

    That’s how the City’s case will be won - if it even gets that far - and that’s also how Schultz will beat Bennett later on.

    GUEST - am I even in the ballpark here?

  223. Clint Says:

    Sorry EJ - I posted before reading your comment!

  224. courtsense Says:

    I think it was Glenn Frey of the Eagles who said “the great thing about the truth is, it’s the only story you have to remember.”

  225. markothenarko Says:

    I would really appreciate if someone would tell me what Iv’e missed as Iv’e been gone all day.I’ll check back in a minute.thanks

  226. Otto Says:

    Has anyone heard the promo running on KJR where Mitch asks Bennett a question and Clay just stutters? Does anyone know if that is real? I laugh every time I hear that.

    That is really how Bennett answered Mitch.

  227. Bennith13 Says:

    Oh wow… that is hilarious.

  228. Dick Tate Says:

    markothenarko Says:
    I would really appreciate if someone would tell me what Iv’e missed as Iv’e been gone all day.

    Bennett soiled his pants. Film at 11.

  229. Laporbo Says:

    SF91, thanks for the PDF.

    So there are 2 versions of the 12 month description.

    12 months in the agreement and side letter
    1 to 12 months in Schultzs lawsuit filing

    Why the diff?

  230. lemonverbena Says:

    AP piece on FoxSports.com:

    More e-mail headaches for Sonics owner

    http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/8012648/More-e-mail-headaches-for-Sonics-owner

    SEATTLE (AP) - More e-mails involving SuperSonics owner Clay Bennett have been revealed that could slow or even stop the team’s move from Seattle to Oklahoma City, a move the NBA overwhelmingly approved last week.

  231. Dick Tate Says:

    Must’ve been a typo.

  232. Matthew Says:

    Could the 1 to 12 months mean a solid unbroken 12 months, and not a total of 12 months time?

  233. Dick Tate Says:

    It’s an obvious typo. It quotes section 5.3 and we’ve all seen that section 5.3 doesn’t say that. I’m surprised Yarmuth & Howie both missed it.

  234. lemonverbena Says:

    “The Oklahoma City Barons road jersey is actually a pretty tight design, with the black and brown color scheme creating a cool look.

    Personally, though, the Seattle Mariners alternate teal jersey from the mid-’90s is my favorite uniform in professional sports history.”

    AK, it’s crap like this that got you run from USSM.

  235. Menace Says:

    I wonder if Bennett knows how to send text messages?

  236. Supersonic Bruin Says:

    Holy bovine excrement, Batman! Did anyone notice what Stern said just before he said the Sonics were doomed to go to OKC?

    The Wizards have repeatedly said that James has been getting preferential treatment because of his superstar status, but Stern said a study by Dallas owner Mark Cuban appears to show otherwise.

    “We know it’s not a star-preferenced system,” Stern said.

    The role of David Stern should be played by John Lovitz!

  237. James Says:

    Just saw this on the main page of espn.com

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3365972

  238. Jake R Says:

    Thought I would add some humor the the Sonics loyal:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIVBsd_p6cA

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFw64d-y-qE

  239. TB Says:

    Laporbo, the article is still there. It’s just hidden. You have to highlight it to read it.

  240. JJ Says:

    I’d agree that if Stern has to testify this will be HUGE - because as some have said… Stern will have to assess his risk of saying something in a deposition that is a lie that might be contradicted by evidence (e-mails) later in court that our lawyers still have. Even if they don’t have the evidence - Stern will have to deal with the fear they might and the high cost if he lies and gets nailed.

    So - Stern will have to either go under oath and…

    A. Commit pergury
    B. Answer questions that hurt Bennet’s case

    Stern has spent his life spinning crap any way he wants in the media but even in his arrogance - his lawyers are likely telling him > You can’t lie under oath. This is different than a press conference. You can’t tell the lawyers…. “I feel like you interupted me so I won’t ansswer your questions”.

    What this could (hopefully) do is simply motivate Stern to cut his losses and tell Clay to Sell to Ballmer ASAP. Maybe Stern is so arrogant he will risk it > but if this case goes to the finish line he risks not only Clay being guilty of fraud…. but of the himself and NBA being added to the defendant list and being comlicit in the crime & if they lose….. It defines Stern’s legacy and becomes the biggest scandel in the history of the NBA.

    Probably a risk/downside worth avoiding if possible.

    We need to hope for good legal news next week and then get our arena act together ASAP because this is critical to give Stern an “OUT” where he could still come out in some fashion as a winner among the owners - as the guy who once again forced a city to build a new big-time arena.

  241. Jake R Says:

    Thought I would add some humor the the Sonics loyal:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIVBsd_p6cA

  242. Jake R Says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFw64d-y-qE

  243. Hambone Says:

    Funny video Jake. Was that ever a real commercial? Or did someone make that for fun?

  244. glennpdx Says:

    Oh, this is going to make some folks here not too happy. Nice graphic (makes me sad, though)…

    http://tinyurl.com/62msz4

  245. chncasper Says:

    As long as litigation continues, regardless of outcome, Stern will eventually resign the longer this all drags on.

  246. Jake R Says:

    Those were real. I remember them during my high school days. Here’s another one:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRlG3uRqNYE

  247. Mr. Baker Says:

    the story on espn, foxsports, SI.com, usatoday, are different edits of the same associated press story by a report with the last name Bell (Greg, I think). That story gets pushed to 1200 news outlets, usually clipped from the bottom up to fit in the “news hole” in the paper. The tone used in that story is pushed to nearly every paper in the country. Lots of people around the country are going to read that in a local paper, it becomes more personal, they pay attention more.
    The tone in the AP is something to keep an eye on.

  248. Sully Says:

    Yoon, Hector-
    The hearing for the discovery motion is in NY because Stern/NBA is a non-party to the suit. They are subpoenaed under Rule 45. The subpoena has to be issued in the district in which the witness resides and that is where motions to quash must be heard.

  249. glennpdx Says:

    Nothing’s changing in the Joklahoman. Up is down, down is up, and poor little Davey Stern is the victim of those meanies in Seattle…

    http://www.newsok.com/article/3234642/

  250. Chikiboy Says:

    “Hey fellas…It looks like d’em ol’ city boys done wrangled up some more of d’em E-lectronic letters again. Maybe we oughta think about using the Tel-E-phone again. I reckon they probly can’t track us talkin on that.”

    Your good buddy,

    Clay Bennett

  251. Hector Says:

    Makes sense, Sully.

    As for people freaking out that the emails aren’t enough, please calm down. I’d love to have evidence that good to work with in my cases.

  252. The Big Dipper Says:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Kenny-Smith-attempts-to-jump-an-Aston-Martin-lik?urn=nba,78855

    Has this link been up here, yet? Pretty funny video.

  253. AK1984 Says:

    As long as litigation continues, regardless of outcome, Stern will eventually resign the longer this all drags on.” {chncasper}

    Since NBA Commissioner David Stern didn’t resign after the referee gamblin’ scandal — which was a humongous black mark on his reign — it’s highly unlikely he’ll step down no matter the outcome of this whole ordeal regarding the Seattle SuperSonics.

    Let’s put things in perspective here, ‘kay.

  254. AK1984 Says:

    AK, it’s crap like this that got you run from USSM.” {lemonverbena}

    Apparently, you don’t grasp the simple concept of objectivity.

    All right, moderator, I wasn’t as harsh toward the guy this time—so let me have the right to defend myself against him.

  255. JJOLOV Says:

    In the end the “goverment” is a reflection of the community not an entity unto itself. Olympia, King County, Seattle, they are nothing without the people allowing this to go on like it does. Your comments are correct and you need to get the SOS folks on the bandwagon and then this thing would sail through a special session not because the Gov thinks there is enought votes but because there is. Move now not next Jan and let the citizens speak for themselves not these windbags.

  256. JeffGreen! Says:

    Hahah @ little Clay Bennett.

    Poor little man.

    Can’t bang with the NW? I’m sorry…. BITCH!

    :)

  257. Steve Says:

    Dammit, for the last @*#&(@ing time TINYURL.COM people!!!!!

  258. Zonics Says:

    Steve,
    May I suggest saying.

    “In order to reduce the size of your links to other websites, go to the http://tinyurl.com website. Paste your web link in the field provided and then the website will provide you with a smaller(tinyurl) link so you can post it on your favorite blog and not frustrate the amdins.”

    My think skull took forever to register why people were yelling “tiny”at me for posting HUGE links…

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