The mighty threadsplitter
Posted on Thursday, April 24th, 2008 at 9:31 pm by Brian Robinson
Not a bad day. People keep writing stuff.
I wish we’d just win this. I’ll sleep good if we solve this problem
Posted on Thursday, April 24th, 2008 at 9:31 pm by Brian Robinson
April 24th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
53, or so days to go to trial. Where were we 53 days ago, now, it gets better every single day.
April 24th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
sleep easy, BR. it’s a roller coaster but truth and email is on our side!
April 24th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
If everything goes our way..maybe we can have a SOS finale party or something.
Would be fun.
April 24th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
sure you’ve all seen this, but it’s funny:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/jerrybrewer/2004369714_brewer24.html
April 24th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
Otto - definitely a party is in order.
How about “The city of Seattle has obtained thousands of e-mails from Clay Bennett’s ownership group”
THOUSANDS OF EMAILS
I bet there’s more joy in THAT bucket.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sonics/2004369709_emailsidebar24.html
April 24th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
“If everything goes our way..maybe we can have a SOS finale party or something.”
we will. it’s called Opening Night 2008.
April 24th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
Speedcat, one of the city people was on KJR a few weeks ago and said they got 150,000 or so emails. They were still going through them and said it was slow going. The KJR host (Softy I think) volunteered to help and they laughed.
April 24th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
I’ll sleep a whole lot better when it’s done.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
You may have to be patient, Brian. I don’t think we’re going to win this and keep the Sonics in the next few days - probably a few months away. But, if David Stern & Clay Bennett were to do an about-face and say they’d had a change of heart and Clay will sell the team back to Seattle owners anytime soon, then they have a whole lot more to hide than what we already know and they are scrambling to save their tarnished reputations. We pretty much know Clay’s agenda and that he didn’t hide it very well. He can say that the decision to leave Seattle was not made in haste, but we also know that he had made that decision before he even purchased the team.
What we don’t know the full extent of is how much of a role David Stern had to play in the conspiracy to rob Seattle of its NBA team, but I’m pretty sure that David doesn’t want us to know the full extent of his involvement. If this ends soon with a victory for us, then David Stern is very worried and does NOT want to testify under oath. I can’t believe that he is freaking out so much that he is claiming harrassment because Howard’s attorneys want to depose him. That is soooo funny. David Stern is so used to abusing his power and calling all the shots, he can’t stand not to be in control of everything. He wants to make all the rules and change them at his whim. He does not want public scrutiny of what really goes on behind closed doors.
I so hope that they will get his deposition, but if they don’t, that can only be good for us, because that will mean that David Stern is surrendering.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Oh we’ll have a party alright, and the toast to Brian and his crew is gonna be a hellraiser. We might have to do a series of “game-winning shots” in honor of SOS.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Yoon, Hector- (posted in other thread too)
The hearing for the discovery motion is in NY because Stern/NBA is a non-party to the suit. They are subpoenaed under Rule 45. The subpoena has to be issued in the district in which the witness resides and that is where motions to quash must be heard.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Nothing’s changing in the Joklahoman. Up is down, down is up, and poor little Davey Stern is the victim of those meanies in Seattle…
http://www.newsok.com/article/3234642/
April 24th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
TICK-TOCK TICK-TOCK TICK TOCK……….
April 24th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
Makes sense, Sully.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
If Howards’ case is not quickly dismissed and Sternis ordered to testify….
He is in for litigation hell.
28-2 fades quickly into the background
His motivation to deal is transformed
His awareness that this case of fraud could become his legacy like Steriods has become barry Bonds
Just the fear of what a loss could mean to him & the league could force him to say… “Because I can’t risk the consequances of a loss - I can’t take the chance of a trial.”
We continue to speculate like this - but I think If Stern has to testify (seems likely) and this case is not quickly dismissed for some weird reason (Seems very unlikely) we have some serious litigation momentuem.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
Party Plans - I think that we should have a massive celebration just like when we won the championship - it’s just as significant. We could parade through Seattle or we could all attend a Storm game and sell out the whole Key and have a great celebration. We’d need to coordinate it with the Storm - maybe they’d let us all run onto the court at halftime or after the game and whoop it up and jump up and down a lot. If we plan something, we’d want to notify the media. I’m also sure there’s going to be a lot of spontaneous celebrations that will break out here, there, and everywhere when the announcement is made that Seattle gets to keep the Sonics indefinitely.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
I was on the ESPN blog flowing from the latest Sonics article… There were a few pro-OKC commentors but the hge majority of comments were very supportive of SOS.
Encouraging. I hope the NBA league office has some intern monitoring that stuff for king David.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
Should be “HUGE Majority” above
April 24th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Thanks, Sully.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:39 pm
I don’t want to be a downer I want a party just as much everyone else BUT we haven’t won yet.we need to take this one day at a time.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
You know I have to laugh, a thought just occured to me as I was reading the latest that glennpdx posted from OKC News.
I just left a company that had been purchased last July. The Company had been owned since 1972 by a guy from Utah. When he first started it his “partner” skipped town with all the money before they could publish their first directory. This man stayed where he was at scraped togehter what he could and produced that first directory cause it was the right thing to do.
He ran his company alway’s thinking of the Customer and His Staff especially the sales team’s.
When he sold the company this last Summer The New Owner’s got on a plane with he and his wife who was also the VP of Sales and flew from Alaska down to Washington, Oregon, Idaho, wherever they had directories they went and met the sales team.
This new owner made a lot of promises. He talked how he and his partner’s had come from “A big Cold Heartless Directory with no imagination or style” he talked about how they wanted to do a directory “The Right Way”.
This man also made comments like “I’ll never lie to you, I might have to correct something I say that was incorect but I’ll never intentionally lie to you.”
Well, guess what. They took the company stripped it down and made several changes they said they would never make. The whole story and what was actually taking place disappered in about 3 months time.
So why do I tell this story? If you haven’t figured it out already here’s the Paul Harvey… The New Owner’s are from Oklahoma.
I find the paralell’s interesting and habitual.
Good Night All have a GREAT PACIFIC NORTHWEST WEEKEND!
April 24th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Kenny-Smith-attempts-to-jump-an-Aston-Martin-lik?urn=nba,78855
Maybe everyone has already seen this, but I just saw it for the first time. Pretty funny video.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
-Those OKC jerseys are UUUGLYYYY!, and the name has to be one of the corniest names in sports. NOT surprising. The color scheme is OK, but that’s about all they got goin’ for em.
-Skyline jerseys all the way, or anything pre 95 works for me, except yellow(switch to green).
-I wonder if Ed Evans the one who dropped out of the ownership group might be a good witness for our side.
April 24th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
# lemonverbena Says:
April 24th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
“If everything goes our way..maybe we can have a SOS finale party or something.”
we will. it’s called Opening Night 2008.
hellz yea
April 24th, 2008 at 11:06 pm
“We might have to do a series of “game-winning shots” in honor of SOS.”
Ummmm as long as I get to throw em’ back chocolate milk-style…..
And when we win this court case we should all throwdown for some vip seats….especially since a few people have thrown out opening night of next year as a possibility.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:06 pm
T, of course we all know we haven’t won yet, but we also know that we’ve stemmed the tide and may have already turned it in our favor. It’s fine to think about and start talking about what kind of Victory celebration that we’re going to have when this is all over. It’s actually much healthier to visualize and fantasize a positive outcome for all of us and the Sonics than it is to dwell upon disaster striking or just dreading what terrible fate might befall us. This has been a terrible stress for all of us and certainly for the Sonic players and all the employees who definitely do not want to move to Oklahoma. We certainly don’t want to bury our heads in the sand - we haven’t won anything yet, but we have a whole lot going for us right now, mostly the ineptitude of the Oklahoma conspiracy cover-up. This is serious stuff and David Stern can’t make it go away through intimidation, which is what he’s used to. I really want to hear David Stern’s testimony in court, but I would forego that pleasure if the Sonics are returned to Seattle so that David Stern can save face and not have to testify in court.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Objectively speaking, a truly ugly jersey would be the maroon-colored alternate road uniforms that the Seattle SuperSonics wore during the late-’90s/early-2000s. Those things looked like there’d been menstrual blood mixed in with the dye and fabric.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
I found an article at the Oklahoman that I hadn’t seen linked to yet. It provides an interesting perspective on how Bennett got involved with the pursuit of an NBA franchise in the first place.
Get this: it all started “in a storage closet ” with David Stern. I feel a little bit low brow with the insinuation, but c’mon OK - you’re serving us up big fat meatballs with headlines like this…
http://newsok.com/article/3232536
April 24th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
“I wish we’d just win this. I’ll sleep good if we solve this problem” {Brian Robinson}
This won’t likely end overnight.
It’s a long and arduous process, with both parties apparently having an equal chance to win at this point. In spite of the hilariously damning e-mails typed by Clay Bennett — who, without question, was a foolish idiot for contacting folks with sensitive material via a traceable line of communication — it’ll nevertheless probably be mighty, mighty difficult to prove fraud against the Professional Basketball Club, LLC in a court of law.
That’s just my viewpoint, though.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
“His awareness that this case of fraud could become his legacy like Steriods has become barry Bonds” {JJ}
Barry Bonds has been treated unfairly by the media.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
I don’t want to be a downer I want a party just as much everyone else BUT we haven’t won yet.we need to take this one day at a time.
Totally understand, thats why i said if everything goes our way
April 24th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Nes Update (im pretty sure its new);
The same judge presiding over the city’s of Seattle’s case against the Seattle SuperSonics ownership group regarding the Keyareana lease will oversee a recent lawsuit filed by former Sonics owners Howard Schultz against the Oklahoma City-based ownership group.
Schultz lawsuit, filed on Tuesday, was reassigned to federal court judge Marsha Pechman on Wednesday. Judge Robert Lasnik initially had been assigned the case.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
We need to hold on little bit about and be sure that we are going to win everything and rub Stern into hell.
Perfect celebration for Sonics is November 1st 2008, Opening Night: Denver Nuggets vs SEATTLE SSSUUUPPPPEEERRRSSSSOOOOONNNNIIICCSSSS, that is when we know for sure that Sonics are going to STAY in Seattle. I want TNT to broadcast the game. Imagine what Charles Barkley will be saying: “Seattle Sonics are staying for good” Kenny Smith: “I am shocked that Seattle lawyers creamed Clay and Stern off court”.
I want the PR department to make the best opening night in NBA history. I want the same kind of introduction that I witnessed the 7th game Western conference in 1996 with more lights and LOUD music. On the outside of Key Arena, where there will be a lot of fireworks during the game. That way C.B. will officially announce that Sonics fans are the WORLD FAN CHAMPION. Then CB and Kenny Smith interview BR and Steve during the halftime. BR and Steve will share the message to the NBA fans to watch out for NBA like Stern.
Imagine how hard it would be for George Karl to coach that game? I am sure he will be emotional during his post-game interview with media.
Of course, I am dreaming something like that to happen. But I am more confident more than ever that Sonics will be staying in Seattle. However, we need to reserve our celebration to become reality first.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
Hadn’t seen this link earlier today on the times website. Full emails in this declaration from the city.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2008/04/24/2004372154.pdf
April 24th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
EPX, I agree about Ed Evans being a key figure…I wonder if he was the one Ward and McClendon were referring to in the email where they were talking about the partner who had bailed right after the deal with Schultz went down. I bet Evans knows where the bodies are buried…
April 24th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
Yeah Courtsense, I can’t help but to wonder what he knows, and why he dropped out?
April 24th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
I had always thought that Ed would be there just in case things didn’t work out for Bennett and he could sell to a group headed up by Ed Evans. From what it sounds like, whether Ed would have been a part of that “flip”, at one point was a real possibility.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:56 pm
Either that or Ed has a soul and wants to keep it that way…
April 25th, 2008 at 12:02 am
Sully - I’ll throw another thank you out. Hector and I started speculating about 500 posts ago.
Based on the regular posts - I’d wager the legal analysis here is a good as you’d get anywhere including Mr. Munson.
April 25th, 2008 at 12:04 am
You almost get the feeling ESPN is telling Lester Munson what to write. Just seems a little calculating (and not too committed to any stance), you guys agree?
April 25th, 2008 at 12:11 am
While I do believe that eventually the sheer legal weight of the emails will crush Bennett’s “good faith best efforts” to steal our team, I also believe that neither Bennett nor Stern will give up anytime soon. These guys are too stubborn and too arrogant to cave in to Seattle. The only thing Stern wants to “settle” with us is the proverbial score. He didn’t get the respect and admiration he expected from the Legislature in 2006, and he’s never let it go. I believe that from the moment Stern learned that Schultz was attempting to sell the team, he began to create the plan to bring Bennett into the picture, in order to get the Sonics out of Seattle and into OKC as soon as possible. We have emails, but we’ll never know what they discussed privately, in person and over the phone. That’s where the real damning evidence is.
I still think we’ll win in the end, but this is gonna get a lot uglier before it’s done. The next 45 days are gonna be brutal - filled with lots of ups and downs, highs and lows, and every emotion in between. We better hope Schultz and Yarmuth are truly in it to win it.
April 25th, 2008 at 12:19 am
And let’s hope for a progressive judge who cares about image.
You almost have to think of the judge like a referee. The hometown is supposed to get the close calls, right?
April 25th, 2008 at 12:19 am
South Florida,
Did you hear Lester Munson’s interview with Softy today on KJR (I’m pretty sure it’s online at KJRAM.com)? He didn’t sound like anyone put him up to it. He did say that his opinion had completely changed in the past 48 hours after reading the filing by Yarmuth and checking relevant case law. He said initially he thought that Howard Schultz had a 0% chance of winning this case, but after reviewing the case, he now thinks that Howard has a 55-60% chance of winning this case. Why do you feel that someone put him up to it?
April 25th, 2008 at 12:22 am
TSFF - I think L. Munson is starting to realize there is more meat here then he first imagined. In that spirit, I suspect there is a valid level of skeptism on the part of the national media that we are just sour grapes. That tide will change.
First they ignore you. Then they fight you. Then you win.
April 25th, 2008 at 12:23 am
No, I didn’t hear that interview. Wow, that’s great news! I was going by the ESPN articles from before.
April 25th, 2008 at 12:31 am
Just read the whole PDF posted by A.N. above.
Why do they repeat documents and give them different exhibit #’s?
Anyway, other than the few lines we read about today I kinda got the feeling those emails were submitted in defense of CB.
April 25th, 2008 at 12:47 am
South Florida, I just checked and Lester Munson’s interview with “Softy” IS on KJRAM.com in the upper right hand corner. Hopefully you’re listening to it. It was a great interview. He went over all the major points - the injunction to leave the Sonics in Seattle until all the legal issues are settled, the PR issue, possible monetary damages, proving fraud, the e-mails, Clay Bennett’s deception, good faith best efforts, etc. and it’s 11-12 minutes long. It’s something that everyone involved or who’s interested should listen to. He also called it a brilliant lawsuit. Really good stuff. Btw, thank you for all your work on your website on behalf of the Sonics. We owe you and other people like yourself a debt of gratitude for sticking up for Seattle and our Sonics!
April 25th, 2008 at 12:55 am
FYI
Check out exhibit 59.
http://tinyurl.com/3rss2o
This is the email from Bennett to Aubrey where Clay bashes the Seattle media.
“All of the beat reporters are weak and the columnists see things differently every day.”
To any of the Seattle media reading this blog…YOU JUST GOT CALLED OUT!!!
Also at the end of the email Bennett basically says Seattle is a bunch of Mariner fans who could care less about the Sonics.
“…I sat in the stands and had a great time receiving cat calls from the Mariners faithful.”
April 25th, 2008 at 12:56 am
We need an arena. S Kelleys blog reflects the need for a special session. Get the politicos to move.
In the end the “goverment” is a reflection of the community not an entity unto itself. Olympia, King County, Seattle, they are nothing without the people allowing this to go on like it does. Your comments are correct and you need to get the SOS folks on the bandwagon and then this thing would sail through a special session not because the Gov thinks there is enought votes but because there is. Move now not next Jan and let the citizens speak for themselves not these windbags.
Gortons shot at olympia is so straight forward. Force aspecial session storm the meetings. Olympia hates business shove the facts down their throat and get the 475 MILLION.
April 25th, 2008 at 1:00 am
The NBA filed a “motion opposing subpoena” in response to the City’s request for more documents and depositions from the NBA.
Page 14 of the NBA’s motion contains this sentence: “The City seems to think PBC told the NBA it did not intend to relocate when, in fact, it always intended to move to Oklahoma.”
I sure hope someone on Schultz’s legal team catches that.
Having the NBA’s legal team openly state that the PBC “always intended to relocate” would be important to Howard’s case.
April 25th, 2008 at 1:01 am
Thanks Dr. Brown. I’m in this for the long haul, so you can continue to count on me.
April 25th, 2008 at 1:02 am
FYI
Check out exhibit 59.
http://tinyurl.com/3rss2o
April 25th, 2008 at 1:23 am
Old news but interesting read….
http://www.sportsbusinessradio.com/node/180
April 25th, 2008 at 1:24 am
It’s true that it’s never too good to get ahead of ones self, and I’d rather OKC be the ones truly guilty of that(as they seem to be), bcuz we’ve all seen what can happen(just from watching the NBA) when people/teams get ahead of themselves. It usually comes back to bite em in the u know what…
April 25th, 2008 at 1:41 am
I’ve been reading through the emails… These guys can’t spell for shit, and grammar is not their friend.
I wonder how they became so rich…
April 25th, 2008 at 1:45 am
Rachit: That would be oil. Location, location, location
April 25th, 2008 at 1:49 am
*sigh*
April 25th, 2008 at 3:20 am
Page 36.
At the BOG Meeting
“What I said about the pre-determined exercise which will pave the way for the team to go to Oklahoma City”
April 25th, 2008 at 4:05 am
Brian, that’s a great, damning line. They very carefully planned out the steps they needed to take (their pre-determined exercise) to give the appearance of making a “good faith best effort” to satisfy the letter of the contract and side agreement, so that they could then move the team to Oklahoma City when the year was up. When the whole world knows about this, it’s not going to be possible for them to move the team to Oklahoma City even if the court case didn’t go our way, which I cannot see happening. They are going to lose in the court of public opinion, as long as we continue to play fair like they haven’t. We do not want to stoop to their level. We are winning this thing. We just need to keep increasing public awareness of the way that the NBA works. The NBA has been David Stern’s playtoy for so long that he has forgotten about justice and honor and tradition and mostly about fans. He just wants to make sure that everyone falls in line behind him and doesn’t question his decisions. He’ll support the owners as long as they support his policies. I think they call it th Stepford owners. Only Mark Cuban and Paul Allen are still in possession of the brains that they were born with. The other owners have had their brains “upgraded.”
April 25th, 2008 at 4:06 am
“I’ve been reading through the emails… These guys can’t spell for shit, and grammar is not their friend.
I wonder how they became so rich…” {Rachit}
They’re rich most likely due to diligence or inheritance.
I, however, am an intelligent, yet lazy guy who works just part-time and is financially dependent upon my family for a living—which equates to a sad and sorry existence to most folks. I’m also an unfazed, outspoken realist; that probably explains the reason behind my generally bleak outlook toward the world and those of whom who encompass it.
Nonetheless, I prefer having those negative qualities over being a goddamn moron and/or an enternal optimist — which, by the way, is a major defect within a lot of you guys here — thus, I can ultimately die knowing that I’m flat-out better than not only most normal people, but also a slew of sleazy billionaires (e.g., Clay Bennett, Howard Schultz, et cetera).
Yeah, that gives me satisfaction.
April 25th, 2008 at 4:07 am
Brian, that’s a great, damning line. They very carefully planned out the steps they needed to take (their pre-determined exercise) to give the appearance of making a “good faith best effort” to satisfy the letter of the contract and side agreement, so that they could then move the team to Oklahoma City when the year was up. Talk about fraud and deceit!
When the whole world knows about this, it’s not going to be possible for them to move the team to Oklahoma City even if the court case didn’t go our way, which I cannot see happening. They are going to lose in the court of public opinion, as long as we continue to play fair like they haven’t. We do not want to stoop to their level. We don’t want to belittle Oklahomans. We are winning this thing. We just need to keep increasing public awareness of the way that the NBA works.
The NBA has been David Stern’s playtoy for so long that he has forgotten about justice and honor and tradition and mostly about fans. He just wants to make sure that everyone falls in line behind him and doesn’t question his decisions. He’ll support the owners as long as they support his policies. I think they call it th Stepford owners. Only Mark Cuban and Paul Allen are still in possession of the brains that they were born with. The other owners have had their brains “upgraded.”
April 25th, 2008 at 4:28 am
“The NBA has been David Stern’s playtoy for so long that he has forgotten about justice and honor and tradition and mostly about fans. He just wants to make sure that everyone falls in line behind him and doesn’t question his decisions. He’ll support the owners as long as they support his policies. I think they call it th Stepford owners. Only Mark Cuban and Paul Allen are still in possession of the brains that they were born with. The other owners have had their brains ‘upgraded.’” {David M. Brown}
Y’know, there’s no professional sports franchise owner who gives a crap about you, me, or anyone else. They just care about making money off of us cultish fans, reigning over their franchises like they’re lords from the Middle Ages, and kissing butts in their good ol’ boys club.
Whether it’s Clay Bennett, Howard Schultz, Mark Cuban, or Paul Allen — or, for that matter, any other owner — they all scoff at our idolatry toward the NBA and its players. On the same note, Kevin Durant, Luke Ridnour, and anybody who’s a professional athlete also doesn’t give a rip about us peons.
Anybody who thinks otherwise is a brainwashed fool.
April 25th, 2008 at 5:12 am
The city of Seattle will not settle, Clayboy Bennett WILL SETTLE. He will leave the Northwest with his tail cut off and not come back here again. The Seattle Supersonics are staying where they belong. Stern and Clayboy have been blowing smoke, they are running scared. They will settle before they lose too much.
Go, Howard, GO!
April 25th, 2008 at 5:34 am
If you really want to have some sophomoric fun at Trammel’s expense here area few key lines from the article TLKK Posted earlier the title “It all Started ina Storgae Closet”:
“While the Horned Frogs sent tremors across the state with their 17-10 upset of the Sooners, an even bigger quake occurred in that closet.”
“Stern kept pushing.”
“Mr. Storage Closet is well on board.”
Now for the seriously, legitimately interseting line in the story:
“I am now confident,” Bennett said. “Not to suggest we don’t have a lot of work to do. But the exercise and process of this application, which forced us to question every assumption, has given me confidence in the business model.”
Confidence in the Business Model… MMMM.
Which part of that model might he be referring to? The lying part, the breah of contract part, the schmoozing the Commish with what can only be determined as a fawning sappy e-mail part, or maybe it’s the corresponding and revealing your true intentions in an e-mail that can be used to create 3 lawsuits against you part?
Which ever part of the “model” Clay likes he obviously was using too much glue in an unventilated storage closet when he out it together.
April 25th, 2008 at 6:11 am
I think we all knew Stern and Bennett were in the closet.
April 25th, 2008 at 7:03 am
And a small storage closet MXT
April 25th, 2008 at 7:10 am
If the court rules Stern must testify I think that becomes a HUGE positive for us and will impact Sterns’s “will” to support Clay’s move to OKC - and without Stern’s support Clay simply cannot move the team & then his will changes.
If I’m right the next question is - timeing - June court case > If Stern knows he wants out of this mess will he think…
“Might as well get out ASAP to avoid the June court case”
That is where we in Washington need to be able to give him an “OUT” that let’s him save some face. And I think the only way we can do that is with a new arena commitment/solution in place.
The litigation is our leverage and next week it could get even better > And the new oweners are 1/2 of our hope/solution > buth the other half is a new arena and so it comes back to that.
Litigation pressure + New owners + New Arena = SOS
We have the first 2 - but we need the arena unless Ballmer would be willing to buy the arena without the full 300 million committed - and if he did not do it earlier before the BOG meeting I don’t know that he will now.
But stuff is changing daily - who knows.
April 25th, 2008 at 7:12 am
“The NBA filed a “motion opposing subpoena” in response to the City’s request for more documents and depositions from the NBA.”
Wow, I wonder why they would do that. Well, it’s just lookin’ better and better. Hey, to all of you who think emails are “not enough”….wouldn’t be fightin us to stop the disclosure if at some point those emails were going to be “still not enough”. If that motion is denied, I have a feeling we are going to learn a lot we probably need to learn, but didn’t want to. Not to mention the fact that it could even show in a clear cut concise manner that Stern knew AND supported the dishonesty of Mr. Bennett all along. IF you get those emails it’s over….seriously, don’t expect Stern and Bennett at that point to do anything but get on the phone with Howie and beg to sell in place of getting hammered in court.
April 25th, 2008 at 7:12 am
“The NBA filed a “motion opposing subpoena” in response to the City’s request for more documents and depositions from the NBA.”
Wow, I wonder why they would do that. Well, it’s just lookin’ better and better. Hey, to all of you who think emails are “not enough”….wouldn’t be fightin us to stop the disclosure if at some point those emails were going to be “still not enough”. If that motion is denied, I have a feeling we are going to learn a lot we probably need to learn, but didn’t want to. Not to mention the fact that it could even show in a clear cut concise manner that Stern knew AND supported the dishonesty of Mr. Bennett all along. IF you get those emails it’s over….seriously, don’t expect Stern and Bennett at that point to do anything but get on the phone with Howie and beg to sell in place of getting hammered in court.
April 25th, 2008 at 8:21 am
I haven’t been following the threads over the last couple days, so I’m not sure if someone has already praised the City’s legal team for the following. I absolutely LOVE the fact that they released the first set of emails a week or so before the vote knowing full well Stern and Clay Clay would receive questions about the emails. The City’s attorneys handed Stern and Clay rope to hang themselves and both happily obliged with their comments at the press conference. BRILLIANT!
April 25th, 2008 at 8:39 am
Brilliant indeed. I love this.
April 25th, 2008 at 8:53 am
In the emails, there is an email or two where Clay says something along the lines of:
“I need to go talk to Stern so that we can discuss strategy.”
I mean, this could mean that he’s putting on a show for Stern, showing that he is trying to get an arena in Seattle. But maybe behind closed doors, Stern knows more about what is going on that he lets on.
April 25th, 2008 at 8:56 am
If we win…..Who should be the coach????? Part of me would love to see George Karl come back and finish some unfinished business. But the realist in me would like Casey.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:03 am
^ How about former Sonic Avery Johnson?
April 25th, 2008 at 9:08 am
How about we bring back GP as coach and retire his jersey on Opening night??? He would need some experienced assistants, but i think it could work—heck we are young so there is no pressure to get to the playoffs right away right?????
April 25th, 2008 at 9:09 am
Is P.J. getting fired or something? Or are we just assuming thats the case? Avery might be availiable if he loses his Dallas job, I would love to see him coach! Larry Brown is also looking for a coaching job. Not sure hed be interested though.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:10 am
You almost get the feeling ESPN is telling Lester Munson what to write. Just seems a little calculating (and not too committed to any stance), you guys agree?
Munson explained his articles on KJR. Zero shot when he first heard about the lawsuit…now 55-60% since he has seen the emails/lawsuit.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:10 am
Get Kevin back on the RADIO(at least for the first year) and on K-J-R baby!!!
April 25th, 2008 at 9:11 am
If we win…..Who should be the coach?????
Rick Carisle.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:12 am
“he City’s attorneys handed Stern and Clay rope to hang themselves and both happily obliged with their comments at the press conference. BRILLIANT!” [bonesbarry]
i agree. this one in particular is just a gem:
- - In one from April 2007, Bennett stated: “I am a man possessed! Will do everything we can,” in response to co-owner Tom Ward asking if they were in for another “lame duck season” in Seattle.
Last week, immediately after the NBA approved the move, Bennett said he was referring to how possessed he was to find a home for the team in Seattle. - -
I’m no legal expert but I do know common sense, and common sense says that Bennett told a bald-faced lie with Stern sitting right beside him. Does context mean anything in a court of law? His “man possessed” email was a direct reply to Ward’s email asking if they could move to OKC right away. I don’t know how the court views that kind of thing but it sure don’t pass the BS detector.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:14 am
PJ-No offense-was brought in OVER Casey–because–he would not be vocal in his support to stay in Seattle and would not OVERCOACH the team to a respectable record which would possibly bring out more fans and support.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:21 am
I encourage everyone to read through the emails and post the tidbits you find most incriminating to Bennett/PBC and/or NBA.
The media reports are generally repeating the same few quotes from the AP wire story - we need to dig a little deeper and when we uncover the really heinous stuff, pass it along to the guys at KJR, ESPN, FOX, local TV and radio, etc.
I mentioned the quote from the NBA legal team’s “Motion of Opposition” where the league openly acknowledges that the PBC “always intended to move to Oklahoma.”
Brian mentioned the quote from Page 36 of the City’s Motion about the “predetermined exercise which will pave the way for the team to go to Oklahoma City.”
There are numerous other damaging quotes buried in the fine print: the April 2007 email exchange between Bennett, his PR guy, and Maureen Coyle at the NBA office shows total duplicity on all sides.
Let’s ferret out the best material, post it here, and make sure the media sees it too.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:32 am
I have to say, the longer this goes on, the more frustrated I am at the inability of the legislature to authorize the last $75M for the Key Arena rebuild.
For at least two years people have been saying, “the key thing will be to have an arena plan. If that happens then the Sonics will most likely stay.”
When the Balmer group and their Key Arena plans were announced I thought, for sure, it was an offer too good to refuse for the city and state. But they managed to pass on it.
It’s been said before, but it still sticks in my craw, that the Balmer proposal was as good an offer as the state is going to get, with $150M of private money going to a Key Arena/ Seattle Center renovation, and if it turns out that even that isn’t good enough . . .
It’s just frustrating.
The success in the court cases just makes me believe even more strongly that there would be a lot of leverage to encourage Clay to sell if there was a local ownership group and arena package in place. And, what do you, know, we had one piece of that (the ownership group) and half of the other, and then it didn’t happen.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:32 am
This is a bit off-topic, since it’s not about emails and motions to quash, but I haven’t seen this mentioned much: that the Sonics are one of only 9 original NBA teams still in the city that they were founded:
Philadelphia 76ers
Boston Celtics
New York Knicks
Detroit Pistons
Baltimore Bullets
Los Angeles Lakers
San Francisco Warriors
Chicago Bulls
Seattle SuperSonics
The other 3 franchises in the league back then were the Cincinnati Royals (Kansas City/Sacramento Kings), St. Louis Hawks (Atlanta), and the San Diego Rockets (Houston).
That’s serious history they’re f-ing with people. All-in or negotiate, expansion, relocation, isn’t even a question anymore. Save Our SONICS!! Period.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:32 am
One thing I noticed was that Clay said expansion for Seattle or Oklahoma was “not in the cards” in a response to a Maurine somebody or other. He said 30 was the magic number for a host of reasons.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:35 am
meant to mention that technically it’s just 7 teams, but i gave Baltimore (Washington) and San Francisco (Oakland) a pass since they’re in the same area.
that is going to be one of the best side-benefits of getting Clay out of our city… no Renton Sonics! SEATTLE SUPERSONICS y’all. ALL m-fing IN.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:36 am
Why is everyone getting so worked up over these emails when Slade is very aware of every one of them and still made the following comment just days ago…..
“While I’d still love to see the Sonics stay, I think that is highly unlikely,” said Gorton, the lead attorney for Seattle’s legal team. “What we’re trying to accomplish now, in my view, is to get another team in their place.”
April 25th, 2008 at 9:38 am
Expansion isn’t in the cards because the product is too diluted as it is. 30 makes for a perfect balance with 3 divisions of 5 in each conference. they’d have to add 2 teams in order to properly expand. logically the league is closer to contraction than expansion at this point.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:39 am
He also mentioned all the failing markets when talking about expansion.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:41 am
Lemon,
The Lakers weren’t founded in L.A. They started in Minneapolis (hence the name “Lakers.”)
April 25th, 2008 at 9:42 am
Didn’t the Lakers come from Minneapolis or some place like that?
April 25th, 2008 at 9:46 am
I have to think (hope) that Slade’s comments were calculated as a tactical position. I thought he went a bit off the reservation with those statements, frankly, and as I recall he made them right after getting off a plane from a vacation. Sunstroke much, Slade? I notice he hasn’t backed them up or restated the same position since.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:47 am
“Expansion isn’t in the cards because the product is too diluted as it is. 30 makes for a perfect balance with 3 divisions of 5 in each conference. they’d have to add 2 teams in order to properly expand. logically the league is closer to contraction than expansion at this point.”
A lot of people have mentioned expansion as something the City should pursue instead of duking it out with the league, so I though that was pertinent.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:47 am
I skimmed the league’s motion to quash the City’s subpoena and the City’s response. I don’t really have an opinion one way or the other regarding what the judge will do regarding the City’s document requests.
I would be a bit surprised, however, if the judge quashes the subpoena to depose Stern. It seems pretty clear that Stern has personal knowledge regarding the situation that is unique among the league executives, so simply offering up Litvin wouldn’t be a sufficient substitute. On the other hand, it may be that Stern’s unique knowledge is more relevant to Schultz’s suit than the lease case.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:49 am
“Lemon,
The Lakers weren’t founded in L.A. They started in Minneapolis (hence the name “Lakers.”)”
Yes, I’m aware of the Lakers history (George Mikan, MPLS, etc.) Should’ve said “still in the same city since 1967″ or qualified the Lakers as having relocated. Same point though.
And yes, the Piston are in Auburn Hills. It’s the Detroit metro area.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:53 am
These latest e-mails are great. In exhibit 54 the Sonics ownership group is being advised to leave the Sonics name in Seattle like the Cleveland Browns and to sell the Storm. They are also advised to pass this plan by Stern. The City really is making a good argument that Stern has been involved in this whole process and needs to be deposed.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:56 am
Funnily, Auburn Hills is almost exactly the same distance from Detroit proper as the Muckleshoot land, in Auburn, was from Seattle proper. But Clay said that was too far away.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:58 am
1. The NY court will make Stern testify. The NBA can offer no substantive excuse for him to not testify, and he clearly has first hand knowledge that is material to the case. The NBA’s opposition to the discovery will NOT be looked at favorably by the judge, who will recognize the tactic for what it is.
2. The referral of Howard’s case to the same judge as the City’s case is also extremely significant, and opens the way for a possible consolidation demand by Howard, and a correlative delay in the trial. The NBA’s lack of cooperation in discovery is NOT helping Clay at all, and particularly if Howard makes a consolidation / delay demand. Life should be getting very uncomfortable around now.
3. The new Munson probability analysis is very good and well reasoned. As I have said, this is the first time one of the pundits has actually shown any understanding of the circumstances here. His assessment is NOT motivated by a desire to enhance ratings. He is clearly not Stephen A. Smith.
I’d be hesitant to estimate above a 50 / 50 chance of success for Howard’s case at this stage. But, its a great plaintiffs case, and truly a game-changing dynamic. And, as discovery continues, I think that the apparent likelihood of success will increase, not decrease. I am pretty confident that we are not going to see any OKie e-mails that say “Woo hoo, I am a man possessed with the fever for getting this Renton deal done.” I could be wrong. Or not.
4. “Does context mean anything in a court of law? His “man possessed” email was a direct reply to Ward’s email asking if they could move to OKC right away. I don’t know how the court views that kind of thing but it sure don’t pass the BS detector.”
The court is the original BS detector. That’s what its there for. Courts have heard every lie imaginable, from the really sophisticated, to the most ridiculously bald faced.
Which species do we have here? Will anyone believe what the head OKie said in his press conference?
5. Typically, attorneys will worry about the political perspectives of the judges involved in cases. They also worry about home town bias. That’s why contracts have “choice of venue” provisions that govern where law suits will be brought in case of a dispute.
These cases are in Seattle. They are in front of Judge Marsha Pechman. She was a Clinton appointee. She was nominated by Patty Murray and …. Slade Gorton!
The City of Seattle and Howard are the plaintiffs. Howard’s suit is NOT for $$$. Its to put the team into a beneficial trust so that it can be kept in Seattle. Howard gets nothing out of this case except the chance to spend $1 million on the lawyers handling the case. The City is trying to keep the team to help save Seattle Center as a civic jewel. The region’s leading businessmen want to buy the team to keep it here, knowing that they cannot make money on the deal.
By contrast, the defendants are lying, cheating, e-mailing rustlers trying to steal the team. They are gay bashing, republican, oil barons who swift-boated John Kerry and dumped the Storm because the team wouldn’t fit the OK “demographic”[What do you bet there are e-mails on this topic? What do you bet they show up in front of the Judge?].
They are in cahoots with the NBA. The NBA has a long history of holding up municipalities. The NBA has also stonewalled and attempted to evade discovery in this case without a legitimate reason. Making more unnecessaary work for the Judge.
All of these considerations will be in the Judge’s mind when she considers the cases. The law and the facts will be the paramount considerations, of course. But these other issues will no doubt weigh in as well.
You get to choose. Which hand do you pick?
Do you think the OKies are nervous yet?
April 25th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Everyone brace yourself.
Throughout this thing the NBA/OKC Clayvid Sternettes have fired their shots at the SOS cause on Fridays.
I believe their timing is an attempt to ruin our weekends.
Hopefully whatever they do today will be as clumsy and inept as their track record.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Great post Guest. The OKies and the Stern have a lot to lose if this plays out and they lose. Perjury and Fraud are not labels successful business people like to wear as they persue their other lives as salesmen and figure heads of high profile corporations.
It would seem unless they are sitting on solid supportive evidence on their behalf that negotiating is looking like a more reasonable option. Great drama. I personally would love to see Stern with his smug little smile spend some time under oath answering questions without avoidance due to “interuptions”
April 25th, 2008 at 10:13 am
Well we are biast! I am no lawyer, but I tend to be cynical in court cases just because the law is so complicated. The description above lays out a well organized list of facts.
If Howard gets the injunction I think we have Clay by the balls. I really doubt he will want to tango much longer. Clay makes his money through financial investments and this deal is looking worse and worse by the day financially for the organization.
The court process moves so slow that our speculation will run over the next couple of weeks. Lets stay strong and keep tempered hope to stay us for the entirety of this ordeal!
SAVE OUR SONCS
April 25th, 2008 at 10:15 am
Thanks again, Guest. All of that points to one thing: the NBA cannot let this get to trial. Its present and past practices will never be allowed to be scrutinized like this. (Yikes, Stern under oath? Never.) Bennett may be willing to roll the dice at least through the city’s suit, and maybe Stern will play along a bit longer, too. But the deposition of Stern is a very big deal. We will know a little more on what is really happening inside the Bennett and NBA camps soon after the ruling on the deposition. I hear the train a comin’…
April 25th, 2008 at 10:16 am
I don’t think the “pre-determined exercise” quote is Clay’s. I think that’s him responding to that quote from, I’m assuming some in Seattle. The context of the letter is Clay covering his ass to Stern for popping off and saying Vegas was a relocation option. He responds to the “pre-determined exercise” quote by saying “Number one, we will continue to do all we can to be successful in this market.” Then throws the Vegas threat out there.
Here’s my take on the rest. nothing that hasn’t been quoted already is overly damaging. But, definitely a pattern of considering relocation within the 1 year period. Unfortunately, it’s all after the arena plan was shot down in the legislature, which is easier to explain away (though still within the 1 year period).
Exhibit 54 - 4/15/07 seems to be all planning their public message, but they do it well, say they really wanted the arena to pass, etc.
Exhibit 55 - 4/23/07 Decision to leave in April, after arena shot down.
Exhibit 57 - 4/30/07 - Talked about moving to Vegas with Vegas mayor over All-Star weekend.
Exhibit 60 - 7/18/07 - Last call to action to get WA arena, 3 months before deadline. Crafting strategy for relocation.
Exhibit 61 - 8/13/07 - Bennett replies (sarcastically, I’d say) to Aubrey’s comment saying “we are attempting to make this the most difficult arenat development/relocation excercise of all time.”
Exhibit 62 - 8/13/07 - More Aubrey stuff. Checking with NBA lawyers about undermining good faith - the quotes we’ve already all seen.
Exhibit 63 - 8/13/07 - Joel Litvin “looking into issues relative to certain documents we signed at closing that may have been breached”
Exhibit 64 - 9/3/07 - Clay planning strategy with Stern. “I was wondering if it was time to connect and discuss more comprehensively our situation and contemplated strategy over the next sixty days.” They set up a time to do so (9/12)
April 25th, 2008 at 10:17 am
“Page 14 of the NBA’s motion contains this sentence: “The City seems to think PBC told the NBA it did not intend to relocate when, in fact, it always intended to move to Oklahoma.””
This needs to hit every major media outlet NOW!
April 25th, 2008 at 10:20 am
i think if Stern is subpoenaed, game over.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:21 am
Great post Guest.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:22 am
I think the Muckleshoot situation makes Clay look pretty bad. He says he “exhausted all avenues in Seattle,” and yet he NEVER even seriously tried to work with these people? Come on, Clay. We ain’t buyin’ what you’re sellin’ you smug Okie bee-otch!!!
This court case is gonna be interesting…. if it even gets that far. I still think we’ll see Stern and Bennett raise the white flag just before the trial is set to get underway. The thing I love most about this is it can theoretically pit Stern against Bennett. Let’s see if Davey continues to stick by his lover if the crap starts hitting the fan.
The saga continues….
GO SUPES!!!
April 25th, 2008 at 10:25 am
“Funnily, Auburn Hills is almost exactly the same distance from Detroit proper as the Muckleshoot land, in Auburn, was from Seattle proper. But Clay said that was too far away.”
26.5 miles from the Palace to Comerica Park in downtown Detroit
18.45 miles from the Muckleshoot site to Qwest Field in downtown Seattle
The Renton site is 9 miles from Qwest Field. Clay Bennett is a pile of…..
April 25th, 2008 at 10:32 am
“The City seems to think PBC told the NBA it did not intend to relocate when, in fact, it always intended to move to Oklahoma.””
With this being filed in the NBA’s motion, I one would think it would kill any arguement Clay and his ownership group ever had regarding their “intent” at the time they signed the Agreement with Schultz. If the NBA is saying they “ALWAYS INTENDED TO MOVE TO OKLAHOMA” how can Clay ever make the case that he intended to make a “good faith BEST effort” to stay in Seattle?
April 25th, 2008 at 10:33 am
Is Clay’s group now back at the “Storage Unit” since e mail is no longer an option.
What are they doing and saying in there?????
April 25th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Review the original proposal for the Arena in Renton. The total request from the State, County and Renton was $400 Million. That included $155 million of “State tax Credits” thats almost 39% of the total amount they asked for “the most expensive building in the NBA”. In lieu of the inability of the Gov and the Speaker to move on this can’t some effort be made to draft a bill that these jerks would vote on. In other words the cost of having all of these folks drive, fly, walk to Olympia could be paid for by the voters agreeing to not fire each and every one of these state officals. The “Credits” could be sold as an incentive to complete a public works project and add to construction employment. Using the same % against the total anticipated cost of the Key remodel is $116 Million. I assume that the credits would be for sales taxes not collected and remitted as well as B&O on the project. It seems pretty easy to get this as if we don’t move fast on this the tenant and the proposed new owners are going to go away. So the Credits would be against something that would not occur.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:35 am
“Page 14 of the NBA’s motion contains this sentence: “The City seems to think PBC told the NBA it did not intend to relocate when, in fact, it always intended to move to Oklahoma.””
I read that several times and in all fairness I think you are taking it out of context. It is a statement of the city’s belief about PBC, not a statement of fact about the PBC from the NBA. Read it this way, “The City seems to think PBC … always intended to move to Oklahoma.”
April 25th, 2008 at 10:35 am
exactly Frozenropers. I emailed that to truehoop. that definitely needs to be known. it also shows that the NBA knew of Bennett’s intentions, meaning they were in on it the whole time.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:36 am
“The City seems to think PBC told the NBA it did not intend to relocate when, in fact, it always intended to move to Oklahoma.””
This is what we, in the trade, call “throwing them to the wolves”. I cannot believe that such a stupid statement could have been allowed to go into the NBA’s briefs.
It is either a catastrophe for the OKies’ lawyers position, or it signals that they know that they have only one credible route of defense - - to say that Howard and his partners could never have reasonably relied on the OKies false representation about “best efforts”.
That is going, I think, to be the central difficulty in Howard’s case. But, the problem the OKies have on that point is that:
1. The “best efforts” clause was in writing, and specifically bargained for, and
2. If its true that what Wally Walker said that the presence of that assurance changed the vote from 3-2 against to 3-2 in favor, it was CLEARLY relied on, and reasonably so.
All in all, more bad news for the bad guys.
They have been thrown to the wolves in the hope of Stern avoiding the deposition. That will likely prove to be a vain hope.
I’ll bet Stern has some interesting things to talk about.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:37 am
i see what you mean, Patches Pal. it could be construed either way. interesting wording by the league. seems they could have worded it another way to convey their point without the confusion. unless, of course, we are reading it the right way to begin with…
April 25th, 2008 at 10:41 am
When I read the emails, I read them almost like they were written by the PR folks. They all kind of continue with the party line - we are trying to give a good faith effort. I do not see them as that overly damning. Brian’s quote above was a quote in the emails - and Bennett was responding to it - not saying it.
Yes, it looks like they gave up in April of 2007 - but then the emails mimic what Bennet has been saying, “it is up to the community to come up with a solution.” In my view that is a lame thing to say, but it jibes with what he said publicly. whther that means he violated the year long good faith effort issue is something for a judge to determine.
Now, there are a few hiccups. McClendon’s quote is by far the one that sinks them the most. I think this is why the depostion is very important. The City wants to get beyond the emails.
I have a feeling the real informaiton can only be brought out through deposition and any meetings city/state officials have had with Bennett and his group.
I see no slam dunk here. I actually see maybe a Nick Collison 15 footer.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:41 am
Guest,
Awesome post.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:47 am
I would feel so much better about our chances if we had a freaking arena deal in place.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:52 am
When I read that statement, it seems to be saying that is what the city thinks, not the NBA.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:52 am
“I see no slam dunk here. I actually see maybe a Nick Collison 15 footer.”
Problem here is McCoy, the emails substantiate what Aubrey says to be absolutely true. In fact they are not the soul of the case but the backstop…..the safety net….emails are still correspondence, and in todays age of communication are as pertinent as a phone call, let’s not forget that.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:55 am
indeed it could just be poor wording choices on behalf of the league. don’t they proof read?
April 25th, 2008 at 10:55 am
I know it’s important for us to have an arena proposal in place, but as for Howard’s case, the arena proposal has nothing to do with it, right?
April 25th, 2008 at 10:57 am
I forgot about the “man possessed” email. That is pretty damning also - and cannot be explained as a man possessed to keep the team in Seattle as I am not sure he stepped foot in town for months after that statement.
I think the emails do produce a pretty big cloud of suspicion - just not quite the Wilcox alley-oop that some of the out of context quotes might suggest.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:57 am
An arena plan is important to the overall picture. Stern is much more likely to flip on Clay and tell him to sell if we have both local ownership and an improved arena on the table.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:58 am
TB,
I think we will find more an better information of the leagues participation in the plan. I am not sure who Maureen Coyle is but her email on page 31, where she lines out the strategy in April, 2007, may be more useful. This at least is clear. She is telling Bennett to do a Cleveland strategy and leave the Storm and Sonic colors behind to ease the pain in Seattle and help OKC adopt the new team.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Too bad some super rich guy couldn’t unveil his plan to build an arena close to Qwest/Safeco fields.
That would surely light a fire under the Key Arena plan.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Dwayne Casey coach, Gary Payton Assistant
April 25th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Help me out here…
Does anybody remember a few years ago when the pundits and some in the NBA were concerned about a Utah v Indiana Finals?
There concern was poor ratings nationally because of it being two Small Market Teams.
Also hasn’t some of the ratings trouble the last few years been attributed to San Antonio’s Market size? I mean I know part of the percieved problem is the clean image of The Spur’s which is sad but isn’t market size also been mentioned?
I bring this up because with the foundation of Durant and Green won’t there be potential for like a Cleveland OKC matchup down the road?
Just thoughts that run thru my head while driving to and fro.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Maureen Coyle is the Director of Sports Communications for the WNBA according to the PDF file.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:04 am
Laporbo Says:
April 25th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Maureen Coyle is the Director of Sports Communications for the WNBA according to the PDF file.
That seems like pretty damaging evidence of NBA involvement.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:05 am
[/ital]Laporbo Says:
April 25th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Maureen Coyle is the Director of Sports Communications for the WNBA according to the PDF file. [/ital]
April 25th, 2008 at 11:06 am
sorry
April 25th, 2008 at 11:11 am
I agree Vinny. Does anyone need more proof?
April 25th, 2008 at 11:13 am
I don’t think any of us need more proof, but there will certainly be more.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:20 am
“Page 14 of the NBA’s motion contains this sentence: “The City seems to think PBC told the NBA it did not intend to relocate when, in fact, it always intended to move to Oklahoma.””
Then why was Aubrey fined $250K for telling the truth?
April 25th, 2008 at 11:23 am
“5. Typically, attorneys will worry about the political perspectives of the judges involved in cases. They also worry about home town bias. That’s why contracts have “choice of venue” provisions that govern where law suits will be brought in case of a dispute.
These cases are in Seattle. They are in front of Judge Marsha Pechman. She was a Clinton appointee. She was nominated by Patty Murray and …. Slade Gorton!” [Guest]
I wasn’t aware of those facts. Is PBC unable to even eligible to request a change of venue/judge after having requested a different presiding judge (the “Shaquille O’Neal free-throw” guy who turned away the motion to dismiss)? Those aspects aren’t a conflict of interest seeing as Gorton is at the very least a lead advisor, if not counsel, to the City’s case?
April 25th, 2008 at 11:25 am
“Dwayne Casey coach, Gary Payton Assistant”
Bring back Nate! : (
April 25th, 2008 at 11:27 am
“Page 14 of the NBA’s motion contains this sentence: “The City seems to think PBC told the NBA it did not intend to relocate when, in fact, it always intended to move to Oklahoma.””
Then why was Aubrey fined $250K for telling the truth?”
And isnt’ that a tacit admission that there was never a good faith effort intended? How stupid can these guys BE?
“Bring back Nate! : ( ”
Why, PJ not mediocre enough for you?
April 25th, 2008 at 11:36 am
OK OK NATE coach dwayne and payton assistants, I can dream cant I haha
April 25th, 2008 at 11:37 am
With all of the momentum we now have and the problems for PBC and the NBA that appear on a daily basis we should really try to get the political folks on the same page regarding THE ARENA ISSUE. Brian is there anything you think we should be doing like emailing, calling, etc. Does the B2 group have anything that they would like the common fan to do? If between now and the middle of June the cases are settled giving some time period to get a new owner do we not have to honor the Ballmer groups request?
April 25th, 2008 at 11:37 am
From Bill Simmons article today:
“If I were coaching the Suns, I would be fouling Bowen and Duncan every time and turning it into an “Eff-You” free-throw contest so David Stern had to break away from exchanging late-night e-mails with Clay Bennett to act like a commissioner for 10 minutes and fix this unforgivable tainting of a fantastic series that could have been headed for the Pantheon if not for such a garbage turn of events. That’s not basketball. I can’t stop shaking my head.”
April 25th, 2008 at 11:49 am
It is still true that the NBA can not force somebody to sell a franchise. From that viewpoint I can understand, a little, why Stern says and does some of the things he says and does. He can not force Bennett to sell back, or stay, or go.
If Stern and the league acted on its “good faith best efforts” condition in the Application for Bennett to buy the team, otherwise they open up the league to having to take owners to court, for owners taking each other and the league to court, even though there is a bunch of language in the application that prohibits franchise owners from taking court action over some conditions of ownership. It is a private business, they can get people to give up some rights in exchange for ownership.
The “thowing them to the wolves” statement above is what it looks like to me too, though you would know better, I’m not a lawyer. I am a COM major and study what people say, how, why, to what effect in groups and society. To me the NBA is islating themselves from harm, Bona Fide groups have permiable boundries, the group will protect its self, from outsiders, and individual members that disrupt the norm in a way that is a break with reality.
1. They will not protect Bennett to their own distruction.
2. Their reality does not allow for the explusion of its members through the action of the group, it is one through the action of that member or an outside force.
3. The outside force named here is the City of Seattle and Howard “coffee boy” Schultz (and you, of course).
In order for #2 to happen they REQUIRE #3 to make that action happen. If the pressure becomes too great the league will, through self preservation, stick to its norms and identify Bennett as abnormal (the bad apple), and as Guest says above, feed Bennett to the wolves (#3).
cognitive dissonance, Weddge, triabglate/ repeat
He has to be extracted by others, the question being answered by the NBA is how hard they will cling to him, it does not look very clingy right now.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Why, PJ not mediocre enough for you?
- LoL…even I will admit that Nate is better then Bob Hil and PJ…
April 25th, 2008 at 11:50 am
“With all of the momentum we now have and the problems for PBC and the NBA that appear on a daily basis we should really try to get the political folks on the same page regarding THE ARENA ISSUE.” [JJOLOV]
Can I get an AMEN from the congregation!! I think we should be hammering the LEGISLATORS. The news needs to come to the Gov from the ground-up.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:54 am
“I see no slam dunk here. I actually see maybe a Nick Collison 15 footer.”
- Hmmm, after seeing Nick get rim checked about 1,000,000 times I had to figure out if you were saying that a 15 footer was worse or better…
April 25th, 2008 at 11:56 am
My phone does not spell check with that/ in there, or I blew right past it.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:59 am
Patches Pal Says:
“Page 14 of the NBA’s motion contains this sentence: “The City seems to think PBC told the NBA it did not intend to relocate when, in fact, it always intended to move to Oklahoma.””
I read that several times and in all fairness I think you are taking it out of context. It is a statement of the city’s belief about PBC, not a statement of fact about the PBC from the NBA. Read it this way, “The City seems to think PBC … always intended to move to Oklahoma.”
Exactly! Why is is so hard for folks to figure that out?
April 25th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
While it’s true the league can’t tell someone to sell their team, the NBA (in the person of Stern) can tell Bennett they’ve gone as far as they can with him. Stern can talk to Bennett about other options for the NBA in OKC. The NBA can facilitate a transition of Bennett and company out of Seattle without the Sonics in tow (unless they screw up and let the court cases go too far, in which case a judge might facilitate that). We can only wonder when conversation like that takes place. Now? Next week? Next month?
April 25th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Ummm, if Clay loses the support of the NBA and David Stern as is possible(see Guest and Mr. Bakers comments)…it’s over for him. Unfortunately for Mr. Stern, he stood by Clay far too long and let his ego get in the way. He acted partially when he should have been plutonic to the whole thing. Now he is going to get deposed. Clay cannot fight 3 battles by himself. It won’t matter whether anyone forces him to sell…he won’t have a a choice. IF he is found guilty of fraud he won’t eer be allowed to own an NBA franchise….I don’t care how “ol’ boys club” ownership groups are….they won’t want that big of a moron as a part of their brand, especially when he has the official title of FRAUD connected to him. If he settles now, Stern probably goes back on his words of not expanding and OKC + K.C. get teams. Kinda sad that all this is going down.
April 25th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Is Gene Shue, Dick Motta, Bill Fitch or Doug Moe available???I’m going nuts with this. I need some good humor.
April 25th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Wally Walker, with Jim McIlvaine and Benoit Benjamin asst.
April 25th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
“Exactly! Why is is so hard for folks to figure that out?” [Tate]
thanks for the clarification. now, if someone with expert eyes would please confirm or deny that the Schultz filing did NOT say “1 to 12 months”.
April 25th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Dick Motta is right here (seriously):
http://www.thebluebirdinn.com/
Bet he’s tanned, rested and ready…
(I always liked the guy, even back when he was the Bullets coach in the Finals series…)
April 25th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Sorry i know i’m over-commenting but just one item to consider in this discussion: the league releases their schedule in late July/early August. if either: Schultz can combine his case with the City’s and force a delay, or the City wins their lease-enforcement case and PBC takes it to appeal, then either of those events would seem to push the goalposts past August 1.
If PBC still doesn’t have their contingent-approval to relocate, the league has to schedule Sonics games at Key Arena. At that point it’s pretty damn close to Game Over. How anxious do you think the BOG would be to re-approve Clay’s relocation in light of all that’s happened and will happen between then and now?
DIG IN, ALL IN.
April 25th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Howard is, as I stated when he said he would file, the out for the NBA. The league can notdo it, Ballmer and the city can pull all they want, but Howard has an actual mechanism to set things right for the NBA and Seattle, I thought this could force a swap of some kind, but with each passing email Bennett is getting extracted from the NBA group.
“The tribe has spoken” could, I hope, be the nausiating cleche at the end of this story.
We shall see.
April 25th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
“DIG IN, ALL IN.”
Thank you, Lemon! Guys, let’s do this, keep it up…we are almost home. IF you get down or think that you are tired of the roller coaster….think about Opening Night at the Key 2008 a sonicscentral.com/SOS filled VIP section. Start saving up now. Man we are so close.
April 25th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
VIP section, you say?
April 25th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Just a couple thoughts…
1. The league filing declares them to be a Non-Party to the lease suit. Yet, we have league officials advising Bennett on how to break the lease and exit Seattle. The depositions will show alot more league involvenment. The league may soon be a party to the suit. Their role is like McDonalds corporate office when a franchisee gets sued because the coffee is too hot. They make the rules, grant the franchises and control things with an iron fist.
2. As far as arena things we may want to do, what if we start an Initiative campaign. I think it is asking too much to expect the legislature to pass a funding bill. We could craft our own and bypass the legislature. That is the beauty of initiatives. Not all states have that.
3. What would ya’all think of a summer SOS BBQ. We could charge a few bucks and raise some money for the cause. We might also consider setting up a booth at Bumbershoot to spread the word and collect donations.
April 25th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
“VIP section, you say?”
It’d be a once in a lifetime experience…..
April 25th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
For months I have been emailing, calling and snail mailing the Gov. in a respectful, thoughtful way. I even have had my college age kids doing the same thing. You see I happen to think that these state employees work for the people. Not independently for there own careers. If as the Gov states this is an important issue than what is she and or any one of them going to do about THE ARENA ISSUE. See below the Gov.s email to me. My reaction is SOOOO. Have we not listened to the Ballmer group? Someone please help!!!
Thank you for contacting me about the Seattle Sonics. I appreciate hearing your
thoughts.
The Sonics have a proud, storied 41-year history in Seattle and, as a sports
fan, I am very disappointed with the National Basketball Association (NBA) team
owners’ decision to relocate the Sonics to Oklahoma City. Their action is
especially frustrating in light of recent revelations that Mr. Bennett and his
partners were not acting in good faith when they purchased the team and agreed
in writing to make every effort to keep the team in Seattle. We now know that
was never their intention.
Despite recent action, the Sonics’ former owners have announced plans to sue the
current ownership with the hope of reversing the team’s sale. The City of
Seattle also has a pending case to force the current owners to honor their
KeyArena lease and keep the Sonics in Seattle.
Seattle is a great sports city and a great city for professional basketball. I
want to thank Sonics fans for their team support through the years. Their efforts to keep the team in Seattle in recent months have been nothing
short of impressive.
Again, thanks for sharing your concerns.
Sincerely,
Christine O. Gregoire
Governor
April 25th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
that letter is infuriarating jjolov
April 25th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
“Seattle is a great sports city and a great city for professional basketball. I want to thank Sonics fans for their team support through the years. Their efforts to keep the team in Seattle in recent months have been nothing short of impressive.”
Governor Gregoire,
Your efforts to keep the team in Seattle in recent months have been nothing short of short-sighted milquetoast.
Sincerely,
Disappointed Citizen
April 25th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Gregoire doesn’t seem to have cared all along about the Sonics, Its a shame. I agree with JJOLOV. Step up Gregoire! It’s gonna take more than a couple phone calls.
April 25th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
From Brewer’s article, “quoting” Aubrey McClendon:
Possible team names:
1. !!!!!!!
hahaha i love it.
April 25th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
OKC Man Possessor!
April 25th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
if there’s any fund raising this summer, The Unspeakable Horror is willing to provide music.
http://www.myspace.com/theunspeakablehorror
April 25th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
someone posted this on the ESPN board, thought it was a good compilation of the NBA/Sterns arena trend:
Stern through the years:
“If the city of Boston can’t provide the Celtics with the first-class facility, then we’re going to have to think about where the Celtics should be located — or relocated.”
– 1993, Boston
“That arena will be inadequate. … I don’t know whether that date is today or will be two years from now.”
– 1994, Miami
“The Summit is fine for the short term, but within the next year, there are going to have to be plans for a new arena. I want to stress that this is a particularly local issue.”
– 1995, Houston
“I think the Sports Arena is not the arena of the future. But we have lots of teams playing in arenas that are not arenas of the future.”
– 1997, Los Angeles
“A world-class city like Dallas should have a world-class arena.”
– 1998, Dallas
“It’s a good arena … (but) I think there’s a new brand of arena that will last longer.”
– 2002, Seattle
“It seems that in the absence of some groundswell that doesn’t seem to be gathering, Charlotte and the NBA are going to suffer mutual losses.”
– 2002, Charlotte
“It is very much an outdated arena.”
– 2004, Sacramento
“Substantial amount of work has been done on the baseball and football fields (in Seattle) and I’m here to personally find out whether the same is being considered fairly for the NBA. If not, that’s a decision that we can accept, but that we’ll have to act on.”
– February 2006, Olympia
April 25th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
If there’s a fundraiser, invite Jeff Ament and the Presidents of the United State of America. (The Unspeakable Horror can play, too.) Gotta shoot a little higher…
April 25th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
David Stern = Squishy little steamy turd pile.
April 25th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Didn’t Jeff Ament rip the Sonics last summer? Something to the effect of “All Seattle needs is the Huskies and a minor league baseball team.”
April 25th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
As for the fund raiser, do you think we can do a pledge of monthly contribution? Like one can donate $5 or $20 a month. Another idea is an auction. If people are season ticket holders for the Mariners and have games that they can’t attend, or anything that they can acution, they can put it to auction to “Keep the Sonics in Seattle fund”
April 25th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
In I think the mega king 5 pdf that was part of the NBA constitution regarding relocation. It set out that teams seeking to change playing venues have to get the Commisioners approval of the new design or any existing facility. I did not see any direct reference to not selling to local buyers in the absence of a new arena deal but it was only an excerpt and the Commissioner could use this approval authority to accomplish exactly that without saying it (as he shouldn’t from a self-protection standpoint against the prying eyes of legal discovery).
Howard may have tried in 2006 to get local buyers but whether he found truly “none” or none at his asking price or none who had a new arena or the willingness to pursue it hard then or none who were interested in trying to get the Commissioner to approve the sale without a new arena remains unclear.
The Commissioner could and still could approve a sale to an owner to stay in a Key arena (probably would have to be upgraded) if he wishes. He has the strong preference and the power to extort but also the ultimate flexibility.
If Howard’s suit wins he’d have to agree to it.
If the city’s suit wins he could though it would be less likely and more difficult to get owner approval for the necessary expansion.
Perhaps Stern would be ok with Bennett’s losing Howard’s lawsuit and forced expansion? I’d guess that he is less concerned with owner share dilution than he is in mess going away so he can get back to enjoying his rule.
April 25th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Thanks JamminJ,
That is an awesome find. I have been thinking about this a lot. Stern has a huge history of holding cities hostage. Who is to say that 5 years from now OK city arena would be out of date. No matter what, there is going to be a NBA team that calls their home the worst Arena in the NBA. Keep up the good word. I hope that NBA fans get to see information like that. I would rather Howard Stern run the NBA than David Stern.
April 25th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
David Stern please give Clay an expansion team and keep the SEATTLE Supersonics in SEATTLE!!!
April 25th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
This is the latest Bill Simmons swipe against Stern (albeit small):
The Dirty Pool Award for “Scummiest And Most Indefensible In-Game Move”
Name me one good/fun/useful thing that comes from hack-a-Shaq. You can’t. It’s not entertaining, it ruins the flow of the game, it’s dirty pool, and it sucks to watch. How have they not fixed this loophole? Really, it’s OK to bear-hug someone as they’re running up the court? Why can’t we give officials the leeway to say, “Look, you did that intentionally, even if we can’t technically prove it, and we are penalizing you for it”? I just hate it. I hate it. I really, really hate it. If I were coaching the Suns, I would be fouling Bowen and Duncan every time and turning it into an “Eff-You” free-throw contest so David Stern had to break away from exchanging late-night e-mails with Clay Bennett to act like a commissioner for 10 minutes and fix this unforgivable tainting of a fantastic series that could have been headed for the Pantheon if not for such a garbage turn of events. That’s not basketball. I can’t stop shaking my head.
April 25th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Ament in February:
“It’s sad…and I’ve only put in half the time that a lot of the Sonic fans have, but I’ve been a life long NBA fan and after this debacle, I’m kinda’ over the whole league. I told Brent Barry that when he’s retired, I’m moving on to full time NCAA and high school ball.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/espnmag/story?id=3349688
April 25th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
“Page 14 of the NBA’s motion contains this sentence: “The City seems to think PBC told the NBA it did not intend to relocate when, in fact, it always intended to move to Oklahoma.””
This needs to hit every major media outlet NOW!
Um I agree..why isnt everyone making a huge deal out of this quote?!?
April 25th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
“Confidence in the Business Model… MMMM.
Which part of that model might he be referring to? The lying part, the breah of contract part, the schmoozing the Commish with what can only be determined as a fawning sappy e-mail part, or maybe it’s the corresponding and revealing your true intentions in an e-mail that can be used to create 3 lawsuits against you part?”
nice one 4020
April 25th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
@ SpeedCat
I’m thinking the threatening and extorting municipalities part.
April 25th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
# glennpdx Says:
April 25th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
If there’s a fundraiser, invite Jeff Ament and the Presidents of the United State of America. (The Unspeakable Horror can play, too.) Gotta shoot a little higher…
Just offering what I got…
and it’s funny, right after I posted that comment, I turned to our singer and said “maybe we can get the Presidents to play.”
April 25th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
I probably stretched too far to try to answer the arena / local buyer issue. Perhaps there are bylaws still be be discovered. Regardless of what is written down, the shakedown is well understood.
April 25th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Hector said:
“I would be a bit surprised, however, if the judge quashes the subpoena to depose Stern. It seems pretty clear that Stern has personal knowledge regarding the situation that is unique among the league executives, so simply offering up Litvin wouldn’t be a sufficient substitute. On the other hand, it may be that Stern’s unique knowledge is more relevant to Schultz’s suit than the lease case. ”
The reason they will not quash the subpoena to depose Stern is that they have solid case history allowing the judge to force Stern to testify to prove the NBA’s assertion that the NBA does not have more documentation on the matter than what they’ve already given up. That deposition should occur sooner rather than later, because the city has filed a deadline of (next week) for their answer to that question. Didn’t Brian say that Stern was already deposed? Perhaps that was the deposition he gave.
April 25th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
No Speedcat, the reason why the judge would force Stern to testify is that the standard allowing the City to depose him is extremely lax. The City need only show that the deposition is reasonably calculated to lead to the discovery of admissible evidence. FRCP 26(b)(1).
Without having read the City’s legal arguments regarding enforcement of the lease, it’s not apparent at first blush that anything Stern would have to say would be relevant to the interpretation of a term in a lease between the Sonics and the City, while it’s very clear how his knowledge might be relevant to Schultz’s case. But, given the standard listed above, it is quite likely that the City can demonstrate how deposing Stern is at least reasonably calculated to lead to the discovery of admissible evidence.
April 25th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
quicker Says:
April 25th, 2008 at 9:36 am
Why is everyone getting so worked up over these emails when Slade is very aware of every one of them and still made the following comment just days ago…..
“While I’d still love to see the Sonics stay, I think that is highly unlikely,” said Gorton, the lead attorney for Seattle’s legal team. “What we’re trying to accomplish now, in my view, is to get another team in their place.”
Gorton was posturing, a good move actually. You didn’t really think he’d be giving up that easily?
April 25th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Ahh, that easy is it? Well good for the City then for subpoening him. I assume Howard/Yarmuth will do the same at some point.
April 27th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
“Didn’t Jeff Ament rip the Sonics last summer? Something to the effect of “All Seattle needs is the Huskies and a minor league baseball team.”’
No.
http://tinyurl.com/3oysea