If-then
Posted on Friday, April 25th, 2008 at 2:04 pm by Brian Robinson
Lately we require 3 threads a day, minimum to spread out the comments enough. Really great action for a sports blog guys.
I’d love to have more NBA Playoff entries but you know what? I actually find myself consciously turning it off. I can’t be a party to the NBA until they resolve this mess. If they go through with the forced relocation despite all this they will lose me forever. I start to watch it (WOW! Delonte West is starting in Cleveland?) and then I remember the situation and change the channel. Pretty sad really.
So here’s what I would love to see nationally on the internet, sports blogs, and of course right here in SC.com. Ideally it would funnel upward to national media but I’m more realistic than that.
SOS Wrote a letter to the NBA recently. While I won’t divulge the contents but I will share with you the ending:
Prior to making a binding commitment to Mr. Bennett you should demand both a process and a resolution which are respectful to the fans and maintain the integrity and tradition of the National Basketball Association.
The integrity and tradition of the NBA. That is what is at stake here.
I have to say that we are seeing two things be proven beyond the shred of a reasonable doubt. The first is that, in the case of Seattle fans and the sweetheart deal with Oklahoma we can see that the NBA is willing to deceive its fans if this deception will be profitable to either the team or the league.
Secondly, as we can see with the blind allegiance to Bennett in advance of these e-mails, and also the lame manner in which they investigated his fraud: The NBA is willing to lie and deceive in order to sweep under the rug a situation which would be harmful or embarrassing to the league.
Knowing this we can make a staggering series of “If…then” statements. I can tell you for example that Joel Litvin, prominently mentioned in these e-mails, was the official in charge of investigating the recent referee scandal. Nothing that has occurred to date has incriminated Litvin, however if we come to believe the above statements is it not hard to believe the following:
IF the NBA is willing to lie and deceive in order to sweep under the rug a situation which would be harmful or embarrassing to the league THEN they certainly would be willing to lie and deceive rather than admit that the referee scandal was more widespread than reported.
How about these:
IF the NBA is willing to deceive its fans if this deception will be profitable to either the team or a league THEN they certainly would be willing to commit deception that resulted in more high profile players participating in, or profitable match ups for its playoff games.
IF the NBA is willing to deceive its fans if this deception will be profitable to either the team or a league THEN they certainly would fix the lottery.
IF the NBA is willing to lie and deceive in order to sweep under the rug a situation which would be harmful or embarrassing to the league THEN they certainly would be willing to overlook the use of steroids or other drugs by their players…
Do you see where I am going with this? Ugly for all of us fans.
April 25th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Even uglier for the NBA.
With respect to some of these If…then statements, the term “consumer fraud” comes to mind.
That type of consumer fraud in sports has occurred in the past (long past), and has resulted in congressional inquiries.
The results were not pretty.
That would be the nuclear option.
April 25th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
OK…. oops I hate anything with OK in it…. so i’ll start my comment over. Alright, IF… the league doesn’t want a Charles Barkley Michael Jordan Finals the refs don’t allow the Suns to shoot an NBA record 63 free throws! I DO see where you’re going with this.
April 25th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
If would be an NBA draft nut right now if it weren’t for worthless David Stern, the most overrated commish in US sports history. I can’t watch much of the playoffs either, I feel like I should be pounding on some doors of our supposed leaders around here so we can get the arena deal done.
Register to vote folks, do it know!
April 25th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
know = now.
April 25th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
When you play this If…then, it really cements that I want no part of the NBA if these Sonics leave, and they give us an expansion team.
Of course, I really can’t say how I would feel if basketball is out of my life for 2 or 3 years, and a new team is introduced into Seattle. Basketball has been in my blood since I was a young boy, so it would be really hard to stay away. Hopefully, I won’t have to grapple with that decision.
April 25th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Someone make me feel better please. Ive been excited and positive lately but for some reason today I feel a little pessimistic and feel like these emails arent gonna be enough to win the case. I dont think Stern and Clay are giving in either, or they already would have. Both are too stubborn and selfish to let us keep our team.
p.s. I am down for an Opening Night section (if we get one) and a fundraiser BBQ this summer!
April 25th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Oh and does Gregoire not realize or does she not care that there are a whole lot of us sonics fans who are willing to base our vote on this issue and vote her out knowing Rossi will come in and help? I dont get it!!!
April 25th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
I have a question….say the Shultz case plays out and Bennett is forced to sell to Ballmer.
What if Ballmer decides the Key Arena in its current state is fine and signs on 10 more years for a new lease. Can he do this without league approval? Imagine how PISSED David Stern would be.
April 25th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Emailgate will gain more traction if Stern is forced to talk to Seattle.
My thought is, Is Stern really willing to risk bringing the NBA down..for Clay clay? Unless Stern believes that he still holds the upper hand. I can not see his play here.
April 25th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
“Ive been excited and positive lately but for some reason today I feel a little pessimistic and feel like these emails arent gonna be enough to win the case.”
I tend to believe that there are not only more emails, but other things up the cities/slades sleeves. They have been very methodical on how and when to introduce information. They are gearing up for monday, so its good that its quiet right now. I can only hope that stern is sweating and trying to figure out how to get out of this corner he put himself in. His promise to clay could be his undoing.
April 25th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
“What if Ballmer decides the Key Arena in its current state is fine and signs on 10 more years for a new lease.”
If ballmer is doing this to ’save’ the sonics, why spend the full 300M, can’t there be enough renovations to make things work with just the 225M?
April 25th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Thank you JamminJ for making me feel a little better. But I am a little confused on something. Doesnt it take 350 million or more just to buy the team-plus the cost of the renovations to the key arena which is another 300 million? Is the Ballmer group willing to do all of this?
April 25th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
I mentioned this in another thread, but I’m curious what other people thing.
How vulnerable do you think the league would be to a focused boycott of their corporate sponsors?
Boycotts don’t always have much of an effect on a company’s bottom line, but would there be any practical use in promoting one anyway?
It seems that if the commissioner has his heels dug in, and a 28-2 vote shows that everyone’s marching in lock-step for now, that any change will not come from within the league, but from the corporations that pay $$ to be associated with the NBA brand, which has become horribly poisoned in at least the 12th largest market.
Not just mildly devalued, but truly poisoned, at least in some circles. Maybe not in any current playoff city, but anywhere a city has been held hostage to a new stadium demand.
So… would there be anything to be gained by promoting a boycott, knowing that it probably wouldn’t make any economic difference, but it might start some interesting conversations at the league office. As in, “We’d like to reevaluate our branding strategy with an organization that elicits disgust and revulsion in the 12th largest market.”
And, since you’re holding the moral high ground and because it’s not just about this particular Sonics situation, you’d get sympathy from any fan whose team left because of an unbuilt, publicly financed stadium, or any fan whose team threatens to leave for the same.
(I’m ready to toss my t-mobile phone away if it would do any good.)
April 25th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
What exactly are the renovations that would cost $300 million? Does every seat need massaging chairs? Are they adding new spacing to the arena? Are they putting in new restaurants? I just dont understand why any of this costs $300 million.
April 25th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Brian, you bring up some heavy issues. Stern should have made himself available in the court proceedings, so that he could help clear the air, IF the league has nothing to hide. The league’s motion to keep Stern out of court smacks of a desperate attempt at covering something up.
April 25th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Ballmer and group are willing to buy team for $350 million plus take on half of the $300 million renovation of Key Arena.
April 25th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
“IF… the league doesn’t want a Charles Barkley Michael Jordan Finals the refs don’t allow the Suns to shoot an NBA record 63 free throws!”
aaaaaaaaaaarrrrghhhhh
April 25th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Although I love the idea of boycotting the sponsors I doubt we’ll get enough traction in Seattle and statistically none outside.
April 25th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Nobody will boycott sponsors….its not their fault anyway.
April 25th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Boycotts are usually not that effective. I knew of an organization that boycotted Disney for a period of time. One of the people in charge of the boycott promo took a trip to Disney right after the boycott ended. Yes, the trip was planned while they were still boycotting.
My point being that people’s desire for beer, shoes, sports drinks, deodorants will be much stronger than their desire to make a point.
April 25th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
What do we get for $300M?
Wider concourses, more resaurants and retail, an attached parking garage with truck access for concerts, improved locker rooms, a Sonic practice facility and team offices. The facility goes from 300K SF to about 680K SF. Unfortunately, we are still completely dependent on one tenant. For a few dollars more we could build a new facility that would handle NHL and AFL events and seat 18,500 fans for BBall. Then we might have some leverage and a facility that would pay for itself. At 17,000 seats in 10 years Key Arena will once again be too small.
April 25th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
What if Ballmer decides the Key Arena in its current state is fine and signs on 10 more years for a new lease. Can he do this without league approval? Imagine how PISSED David Stern would be
- Why would Ballmer say that…and if Ballmer would say that why’d he make the offer to Clay pending a new Arena??
April 25th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Josh Howard says himself and most of the league smoke pot.
I bet Stern is just loving life right now.
April 25th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
sonicej - where did you get that Howard info?
April 25th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Has anyone touched on the anti-trust / monopolistic angle of this at all? Does anyone know if Slade or anyone else has attempted to speak with the justice department on this.
If Stern has been driving the moving van to OKC all along, that is collusion and as he is the commisioner, I imagine that is a monopolistic practice and have to infringe upon anti-trust laws.
Anybody have any idea on this?
April 25th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Big Smooth might have something to say regarding the recent “pot” allegations in the league…bwahahaha.
April 25th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
we should start approaching all companies, especially local ones, with season tickets in the lower bowl or suites to reconsider their purchase or buy instead upper bowl tickets. It’ll be a tough sell, but they have to see the big picture. Apparently 40% or 60% of the sonics revenue comes from the lower bowl tickets and suite the other revenue come from concessions…etc.
April 25th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
El Presidente,
Yes! Go read the posts from Guest the resident lawyer. He talks about the Nuclear option which is Congressional hearings. This is the last bullet in the gun, however. Slade is saving that one. At the moment the strategy appears to be to separate Bennett from Stern by leaving the NBA out of the lawsuits.
April 25th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
They just ran a segment on Sportscenter about the Josh Howard story.
Howard was on the Michael Irvin radio show (Is that ironic or what?) in Dallas when he said he smokes weed in the offseason but it doesn’t affect his game. He also confirmed the rumors that most of the NBA smokes as well.
ESPN had Screamin A. Smith on to comment. Smith said his is personally upset with Howard and what Howard said was stupid. Smith also said that David Stern does not need more image problems for the NBA. Smith also pulled the race card saying that white people will not watch the NBA if they think it’s a bunch of rich black potheads.
April 25th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Here is a link the the Josh Howard story:
http://tinyurl.com/5z2689
April 25th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
I can’t wait until im browsing the net one day and I come across the headline “Clay Bennett to sell Supersonics to Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer”
What a great day that’d be.
April 25th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
“Howard was on the Michael Irvin radio show (Is that ironic or what?) in Dallas when he said he smokes weed in the offseason but it doesn’t affect his game. He also confirmed the rumors that most of the NBA smokes as well.”
Rumors?
How is this even news?
April 25th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
“we should start approaching all companies, especially local ones, with season tickets in the lower bowl or suites to reconsider their purchase or buy instead upper bowl tickets. It’ll be a tough sell, but they have to see the big picture. Apparently 40% or 60% of the sonics revenue comes from the lower bowl tickets and suite the other revenue come from concessions…etc.”
The “Sonics” aren’t selling any tickets to anyone at the moment, so I don’t see how that would have any affect.
Even well-organized boycotts have very little effect in the U.S. We’re conditioned to having everything we want, whenever we want it.
April 25th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Do you think they will still meet the court date on the 30th since we are waiting ti hear whether or not Stern will be questioned?
April 25th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
“Smith also pulled the race card saying that white people will not watch the NBA if they think it’s a bunch of rich black potheads.”
Sadly, I know a bunch of people on in Eastern Washington who already think this way…
April 25th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
If you want to boycott something, boycott NBA licensed products. That will affect the owners directly.
I think there is a good chance there will be a postponement on the 30th. The city will argue they have not had enough time because the NBA would not release their materials. The case has gotten more complicated with the Schultz suit. They could consolidate the cases on the 30th. This would ensure the Sonics play in Seattle in 2009.
April 25th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Beautiful Seattle.
http://www.terragalleria.com/america/washington/seattle/picture.uswa6090.html
and
Oklahoma…
http://www.fotosearch.com/DGT200/sna0054/
What a sh*t hole!
lulz
April 25th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
blog.newsok.com/mikesherman/2008/04/24/coming-soon-the-64-name-bracket/#comment-198
Go for goodtimes and laughs.
April 25th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Patches Pal said: “What would ya’all think of a summer SOS BBQ. We could charge a few bucks and raise some money for the cause. We might also consider setting up a booth at Bumbershoot to spread the word and collect donations. ”
Most excellent idea. Where and when is the question!
—————-
Vinny Says:
April 25th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
“David Stern = Squishy little steamy turd pile. ”
Thanks Vin, you made my day with the laughs.
April 25th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Patches Pal said: “I think there is a good chance there will be a postponement on the 30th. The city will argue they have not had enough time because the NBA would not release their materials. The case has gotten more complicated with the Schultz suit.”
Agreed. I was thinking this very thing. NBA and the team are being turds about sharing information & documents they agreed to share, so they must pay - the case is delayed, which only helps us, because of course the team isn’t going anywhere until the lease case is resolved.
April 25th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
“I can’t wait until im browsing the net one day and I come across the headline “Clay Bennett to sell Supersonics to Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer”
What a great day that’d be.”
Yes! I have so many times envisioned waking up to headlines in the news something like “The Seattle SuperSonics have been saved.”
April 25th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
so we’re waiting on stern’s deposition decision coming on monday, stern/bennett to comment about the latest emails, and of course more incriminating emails to emerge about bennett. and what is the deadline on May 30th? is that the end of the discovery period for the lease case?
Emailgate (from otto) is a great name for all this, something bill simmons would probably enjoy and use in a national story. which brings up the question, when will this story become a national story? i feel like it’s been reported on and off, but nothing consistent like the bonds/clemens/or spygate stuff.
and who’s sick of everyone in seattle already ga ga over the mariners. this sonics drama is just heating up people!!
April 25th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
“If the NBA is willing to lie and deceive…..”
Good way to think about it but I’d suggest the “IF” is no longer in question. The NBA Does this. The Innocence is gone people. The corruption is real.
The “IF” can accurately be replaced with “SINCE” or “BECAUSE” the NBA is willing to lie and deceive”
The only thing new about it now is the stakes are so high, it is in our backyard so we see it more clearly and they are getting caught.
How deep this corruption goes I do not know - but this whole Seattle/OKC franchise mess reflects a corruption that was already imbedded in the NBA and in King David Sterns leadership for a long time. It is not something that has been created recently with Clay & his effort.
and yes…. I’ve always had some cynical conspiracy theory stuff in my head since the Suns Sonics game #7 in Phoenix several years ago when the refs gave that game to Barkely & Co. from start to finish.
April 25th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
# hoopster777 Says:
April 25th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
“I have a question….say the Shultz case plays out and Bennett is forced to sell to Ballmer.
What if Ballmer decides the Key Arena in its current state is fine and signs on 10 more years for a new lease. Can he do this without league approval? Imagine how PISSED David Stern would be.”
If Howard wins case court could force sale but I’d guess the NBA approval process would still be in place and Stern could recommend approval / rejection of a particular owner unless the judge rammed it thru or a settlemenet dictated it go a certain way. Suitably of the arena / lease and ultimate intentions could still be questions tied into their approval if there were competing bids and league flexibility. But we’ll only know when we get there.
April 25th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Joel in LA… I think it would be very difficult to get any traction on a boycott of NBA sponsors to such a point that it would really impact the league and Sterns decisions.
Interesting idea - sounds good in some ways - and maybe there are ways to ignite it that would give it some real influence - but I tend to doubt it.
April 25th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Did anyone else catch Stern’s comments from yesterday?
“I wish it weren’t in litigation,” Stern said. “But we’re prepared to abide by the litigation. I think that eventually whether it’s now or two years from now, the Seattle Sonics will be in Oklahoma City.”
April 25th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Gaga over the Mariners? Bedard has been disappointing AND their under .500 …I think the Seahawks are the real detractor, they rule teh Seattle sports scene, as they should. You know how it is, only one Seattle sports team can be successful at any given time.
April 25th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Stern would not deny someone of Ballmer’s stature ownership.
I think that Stern’s stance (which is obvious to most all of us) is more about getting a new arena built than anything else… but I bet he never imagined being faced with the prospect of a deposition! HAHAHA!
April 25th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
TB… This line from Stern is what he has been saying for months. Pure BS - Ignore it - Posturing before a court case.
Of course he will say the league is willing to suck it up in Seattle for 2 more years - to say anything else reduces the chance for a finacial buyout of the lease which is what he & Clay want.
April 25th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
“and who’s sick of everyone in seattle already ga ga over the mariners. this sonics drama is just heating up people!! ”
Give them another month to drop out of the pennant race and they’ll come around. The Ms are the most stupidly run team in professional sports.
April 25th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Clint… Not just deposition but having to be under oath in a trial too where he knows he must choose between…
1. Pergury
2. Hurting Clay’s move attempt
He is screwed. He cannot let Howards case go to trial - becasue the risk of losing is to HUGE. Even if he thinks he will “probably” win he must ponder the consequences if he loses….
A. Largest Sports Scandal in History under his watch
B. His legacy is defined by the NBA being found guilty of a 350 million dollar fraud in the selling of a franchise. “Fraud/liar/idiot” would become his legacy like “Steriods/Jerk” is Barry Bonds.
C. He would surely be fired - or forced out in an embarrassing way
I just can’t see him being willing to risk this downside just to get Clay Clay into OKC. (Unless Clay has some nasty photo’s of David - sometimes I think that could be the only explanation for Stern’s irrational behavior)
April 25th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
I said it once i’ll say it again. Stern gets subpoenaed, game over.
Last thing he wants is to testify.
April 25th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
David Stern is going to be interviewed in a few minutes on ESPN2
April 25th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Good stuff here:
http://tinyurl.com/4gqoh9
April 25th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Sounds like some people think the cities lease lawsuit might be delays past mid-June?
If so I think this helps us in the sense it give us more time to get an arena deal done before the pressure of the court case itself - and probably ensures that the team stays next season.
At some level Clay’s cash flow in this operation has to be hurting - that have taken zero money in our season ticket renewals and his legal expenses must be sky high. He surely expected this - but it is a finacial reality that his wallet is being drained right now - which can’t be good.
I think an SOS social - BBQ - Gathering would be fun and maybe a chance to launch any new initiative that seems to make sense at that time? Look to SOS leadership on that - but maybe fine to just come & hang out & meet each other etc.
Doing something on draft night could be fun too. KJR might get behind something on that date.
April 25th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
TrueHoop (ESPN.com):
David Stern has been saying that they are satisfied Clay Bennett and the owners from Oklahoma City have honored their obligation to make a good faith best effort to keep the Sonics in Seattle. But those private emails keep becoming public, and now we learn the league’s top lawyer, and Clay Bennett himself have worried that may not be the case, especially after minority owner Aubrey McClendon’s statements last year that the owners never intended to keep the team in Seattle. As Jim Brunner of the Seattle Times tells us, Bennett, for instance, emailed McClendon: “I am concerned from a legal standpoint that your statement could perhaps undermine our basic premise of ‘good faith best efforts’…” One of the fights going on right now: lawyers from the City of Seattle want to depose Commissioner Stern. This threatens to become a major distraction from the playoffs.
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-32-115/Friday-Bullets.html
April 25th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
Softball interviewer does not mention Seattle. Stern talks about global expansion.
April 25th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
Stern just gave a 60=90 second interview - no questions on Sonics & OKC - all smiles - saying everything is great in the NBA
April 25th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Smug little b*tch will get what he deserves.
April 25th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
Smug little b*tch will get what he deserves.
April 25th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
Global expansion? What a maroon…
April 25th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Why doesn’t Stern just run the NBA like the WWF (or is it the WWE now Im not sure). Whichever one of the NBA owners gets in bed with him the most gets an NBA title. Clay would have the Sonics at 82-0 up 2-0 in the first round against the Nugs. LOL!!!
April 25th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Brett - enjoyed your link above - thanks
April 25th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
“If Howard wins case court could force sale but I’d guess the NBA approval process would still be in place and Stern could recommend approval / rejection of a particular owner unless the judge rammed it thru or a settlemenet dictated it go a certain way”
Correct me if I’m wrong, nut this is my interpretation:
The NBA does not have an antitrust exmption, like MLB does. Therefore they cannot legally prevent a sale- they same way they can’t legally prevent a move. The approval of relocation & approval of sales is really just for show. They can’t legally say no to either.
Am I wrong about this?
April 25th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
K-Man. I think you are correct.
April 25th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
Interestng to think that if Sonics stay in seattle & get to finals - Stern likely could never attend a game here without a hostile and embarrassing experience. I think he would be boo’d like no one has ever been boo’d in seattle sports history.
Same thing would happen in Phoenix if the Suns rally & go into the conference &/or NBA finals. Suns fans hate Stern for the suspensions he supported last year in the playoffs. He is running out of NBA cities he is welcome in.
April 25th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
If it comes down to the courts forcing Bennett to sell, wouldn’t the purchase price include making PBC whole as to before the transaction happened? I.E. wouldn’t the price also include any operating losses they incurred plus the $350 mil and minus the $10 mil they received for the Storm? Couldn’t it end up being more like $400-$425 mil? Just wondering how that part could play out.
April 25th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Gee, Steve, I think that might be the Sonics…
April 25th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
Random fact:
Jeff Green’s agent is David Falk.
It’s going to suck when his contract comes up. Falk’s client’s are a whos who of overpaid players.
April 25th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
It was posted in another thread so I won’t paste the whole thing again, but I received the Gov’s auto-reply email back about the Sonics situation. Nice to get a response almost 2 months after I contacted her. At least Rodney Tom’s hate mail came a few days after I contacted him.
The best part … hotmail thought it was spam and dumped it in the junk folder!
April 25th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Lately we require 3 threads a day, minimum to spread out the comments enough. Really great action for a sports blog guys.
Sports blog? I had kinda forgotton what it was like to talk about sports.
April 25th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
“I think he would be boo’d like no one has ever been boo’d in seattle sports history.”
I was at either the first or second game of Arod’s return to Safeco as a Texas Ranger. I swear the Safe was shaking because of the boo’s. I agree though, probably wouldn’t be able to come back to Seattle, or present any awards to any Sonics….
If it comes down to the courts forcing Bennett to sell, wouldn’t the purchase price include making PBC whole as to before the transaction happened? I.E. wouldn’t the price also include any operating losses they incurred plus the $350 mil and minus the $10 mil they received for the Storm? Couldn’t it end up being more like $400-$425 mil? Just wondering how that part could play out.
Eric, any losses incurred while participating in fraudulent activity is sole responsibility of the guilty party. The franchise would be awarded at the price which was agreed upon at the time of purchase.
April 25th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
“Stern just gave a 60=90 second interview - no questions on Sonics & OKC - all smiles - saying everything is great in the NBA”
ESPN is a tool of the league so it’s not in the network’s interest to ask tough questions. Stern likely told them not to ask any Sonics questions.
April 25th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
I agree lemon… ESPN likely sucks up to Stern for the $$$ - A serious journalism effort would have asked him about the legal stuff - I mean come on… The commissioner of the NBA has just been called to testify & he is refusing unless forced etc. etc. - that is a story!
But no - nothing but high softballs thrown his way in Philly tonight.
But you got to love bill Simmons!
April 25th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
Sorry guys, my post window wasn’t displaying all of that stuff, can someone delete that….
April 25th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
“Sports blog? I had kinda forgotton what it was like to talk about sports.”
Ditto, bro….
April 25th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Can we guess what’s been said over “sweet tea, in mason jar’s,” over the josh howard calling out his fellow nba, pot smokers!
April 25th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
I’d forgotten about these commercials. God bless the Drobber, and thanks faniq.
http://tiny.cc/ciDWN
April 25th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
If Stern has to go through with the deposition and is still in an adversarial role to the city I will expect some emails, come mid week, showing up in the Seattle Times exposing Stern an accomplice to Bennett’s fraud. So far it’s all on Bennett but if Stern is still fighting for Bennetts cause then I will expect that Slade and his band of merry men will send a salvo over his stern.
It’s also nice that Bill Gates dads law firm is representing the city in these proceedings. That firm also does ton of work for Microsoft (of course) so Balmer’s group will be in the know of what is happening also.
April 25th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
“Can we guess what’s been said over “sweet tea, in mason jar’s,” over the josh howard calling out his fellow nba, pot smokers!”
LOL…hehehehehe. Wow! That is definitely the quote of the day!
April 25th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Global Expansion? and they can’t even get it right in North America…
April 25th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
Yes, but I almost want to see that happen. If Stern did take the game global and it blew up in his face, he would be out as Commish.
April 25th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
“Sports blog? I had kinda forgotton what it was like to talk about sports.” {Dick Tate}
Yeah, this is no longer a sports blog.
It’s a bastardized version of its former self.
April 25th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Yeah, David, I see the connection between getting a team in OKC (population 500,000) and getting one in Shanghai (population 18,000,000). Sounds like the “going wherever the wind blows” strategy, actually…
April 25th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
The NBA is already a global thing. And thats why moving a team hurts the NBA that much: You can´t go out to Asia, Europe and tell the people that the NBA is the place where something special happens and than tell them, that you don´t care for tradition.
Relocating teams is a North American thing, that nobody else elsewhere can understand and forgive.
Making the NBA a global thing and than acting against the cultre of sports isn´t working.
April 25th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
Stern’s global obsession is utterly ridiculous. This is the NBA, not the GBA. It’s his only answer to try and fix his horribly broken business model. NBA players make too much and he has no power to stop paying them more than the teams make. I’m sorry, but that’s a shitty GM.
April 25th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
about 10 days ago I made a post stating my biggest dream would be to witness David Stern have to hand the Lawrence O’ Brien Trophy to Steve Ballmer after the Durant,Green,Collison, Rose led Supes win the title–ON THE FLOOR OF KEY ARENA-that was just after the BOG vote and I was pretty down. It was a LOONNGG Shot dream. NOW-the only long shot may be that it will be Stern giving out the trophy. Either he will send a league rep or he will be watching the game in a prison jump suit(probably not-but it is fun to dream
April 25th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Yeah….and all because of little man complex.
April 25th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Big deal.
Smoking weed is equal to drinking wine.
The only reason it is illegal is because the government could not tax it if anyone could grow it.
April 25th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
http://www.enjoytheenjoyment.com/
Clay Bennett: A Bully with an Inferiority Complex
April 25th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
Eric,
I think if clay is found guily of fraud and the team is returned he isn’t going to be made whole again. What the team is sold for is what he gets. On top of that he will be required to pay Howards legal fees. He may have to remarry a Walton to get out of debt.
April 25th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
“Big deal.
Smoking weed is equal to drinking wine.
The only reason it is illegal is because the government could not tax it if anyone could grow it.” {Vinny}
Exactly …
The Comprehensive Drug Abuse Prevention and Control Act of 1970 should be immediately repealed by Congress.
Of course, the federal government has become an entity of statist corporatism that constantly infringes upon our natural rights as human beings.
That’s life in the United States of America, though.
April 25th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
George Shinn has got to be licking his chops right now.
April 25th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Clay Bennett probably has an inferiority complex, but several of y’all have a cultish demeanor about yourselves. As someone who abhors groupthink, that annoys the f_ck out of me.
April 25th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Sorry fellas i had to post this.
From blog.okc coming-soon-the-64-name-bracket
————————————————————————–
Well since the Schultz’ lawsuit and Satan Bennett’s feminine, EMBARRASSING emails…I’d have to say Joshu@, we will be blessed in this situation. Thank god Satan Bennett and co. are the worst lying buisiness men i’ve ever seen in my life.
Just imagine how Seattle will react to this. I can see it now… Sold out crowds all season long in Seattle.
Clay “Ugly Man” Bennett is hated across the nation.
Every respectible news carrier agree’s with me.
By the way.. Satan Bennett, how is all this negative publicity treating you?
Are you stressing out yet? Yeah? Awwww pity, you scumbag.
P.S.
Miss Teen USA 2007 - South Carolina thinks your stoopid!
HAHAHAHA
April 25th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Nice win by the Sixerts tonight - Impressive.
April 25th, 2008 at 7:08 pm
This may have been covered all ready, but man look at how Clay kisses David Stern’s rear. He truly is pathetic.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2008/04/09/2004338441.pdf
April 25th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
Herr Commissioner speaks. He won’t back down. Sonics are Oklahoma’s. Or so he say tonight (damn, I hate every word out of that guy’s mouth:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/04/25/stern.sonics.ap/
April 25th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Herr Commissioner speaks. He won’t back down. Sonics are Oklahoma’s. Or so he say tonight:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/04/25/stern.sonics.ap/
April 25th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
I guess josh howard will be on the front page of clay paper?
“the Oklahoman put black faces on the front only if they were athletes, a black Republican, or a bad guy.” Observer editor Troy once wrote of the paper’s plantation mentality: “The paper has been quietly and effectively racist in all its long history.”
former Oklahoman reporter Charolette Aiken
April 25th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
I like the fact that every time Stern faces the media he has to answer questions about Seattle. This is good.
April 25th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
Sorry if this was brought up earlier, I don’t have time to read through all the posts first…Stern is still okay with the Sonics moving according to an AP article in the P-I…
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/360702_stern26.html
April 25th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
“Stern: Only unprecedented court action can keep Sonics in Seattle”
Stern being deposed concerning fraud in the league is a first the last time I checked. Wow, I really hope he shuts his mouth soon or the league is going to be in big trouble with Clay.
April 25th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
“I’d love to have more NBA Playoff entries but you know what? I actually find myself consciously turning it off. I can’t be a party to the NBA until they resolve this mess. If they go through with the forced relocation despite all this they will lose me forever. I start to watch it (WOW! Delonte West is starting in Cleveland?) and then I remember the situation and change the channel. Pretty sad really.” {Brian Robinson}
Unlike most overemotional people, I’m able to enjoy watching the NBA Playoffs. It’s too bad that you can’t separate your involvement with Save Our Sonics versus the pure enjoyment that comes from watching basketball — especially this year, since the post-season is kicking motherf_cking @$$ — however, I can’t expect everyone to think rationally and be of sound mind.
Hell, SonicsCentral has suffered from the creation of the overzealous cult known as Save Our Sonics. At this rate, SonicsCentral won’t return to its former glory until someone else takes over control here — even if it’s the return of Kevin Pelton, who’s probably more intellectually equipped to run things — sadly, though, I’m sure most people disagree with me.
Also, the influx of new posters is a gigantic nuisance. Those newbies don’t seem to be very knowledgeable about the game of basketball — as they come across as mindless homers — yet, they’ve nevertheless hopped on their savior’s bandwagon like a bunch of lobotomized disciples. Of course, this is an instance wherein us average joes won’t effect the eventual result here.
In the end, ultimately, it’ll be the big wigs — whether it’s NBA Commissioner David Stern, the Professional Basketball Club, LLC, the NBA Board of Governors, Howard Schultz, Steve Ballmer, the Washington State Legislature, Gov. Christine Gregoire, the Seattle City Council, Mayor Greg Nickles, and/or the American judicial system — who decide the outcome.
All right, I finally got that off of my chest.
April 25th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
I think, ultimately, despite the novel and face-saving attempts to construct cause of action, that the Sonics are moving to Oklahoma,” Stern said.
Novel? I thought stern dosn’t read: face saving? taking a shot at a former owner? who has not made any statement or pr move unlike sterny?
novel
1. new and not resembling something formerly known or used
2 : original or striking especially in conception or style
April 25th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
dirt weed in okla is going to kill the nba free agents market!
April 25th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Joshua, You are so right. It’s hard to fathom the absolute complete ego freak that is Stern. He should shut up for his own good, and certainly for the good of his employers. But he just can’t. He’s not capable of it. It’s a little sad in a way…
April 25th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Josh Howard REALLY wishes there was still an NBA team in Vancouver.
April 25th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
I’ve changed my mind. This kook is going the distance. Get ready for two years or more of hand-to-hand combat. The roller coaster is just starting. Hope everyone has the constitution for the long ride ahead…
April 25th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
KRV…
Intereting reading that e-mnail. One point that caught my attention is Clay seems to say he is committed to trying all out to get things done in Seattle all the way to 15 months - which he ended up failing miserably if that one defines a “1 Year” good faith effort as 12 months.
But Clay’s e-mail certainly is revealing - He’s blowing smoke at Strn - “Never discussed it?” Oh my - let’s get all the owners to testify under oath on that one! We know it is a lie - just got to get them under oath.
April 25th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
I wish that somebody will take out Stern’s voice and hearing. Let him make himself a fool as Monday comes and Judge orders NBA to release the documents and tell Stern that he is going to be deposed!
April 25th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
“Josh Howard REALLY wishes there was still an NBA team in Vancouver.”
There’s no doubt about it.
Anyhow, I applaud Josh Howard for his honesty.
April 25th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
On the Sonics staying in Seattle until 2010;
“It wouldn’t be optimum for either the NBA, the team or the city, but if that’s what it’s going to be, that’s what it’s going to be,” Stern said.
WTF?! No one wins but that’s the way it’s going to be? Why? Just so Clay Clay can have his way? What a pathetic excuse for an executive.
April 25th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
I had a friend who worked in a Tacoma hospital as a parking attendant.I used to go and shoot hoops on the concrete wall he set up. One day he says Big Smooth brought his nice car underground and handed the keys to my friend. When he opened the door the car was blazed and smoke came out. Smoothy acted like everything was normal and walked away. If all the NBA had to worry about was weed, we’d be better off than the Sports guys who get piss drunk and then beat the shat out of everyone.
April 25th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
“Stern: Only unprecedented court action can keep Sonics in Seattle”
The way he likes to run his mouth in public is going to PO the judge who probably isn’t going to like his style one bit. Judges don’t like being told what to do. This is being tryed in the press right now. She could well put a gag order on both sides to stop the email leaks and press interviews.
April 25th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
http://www.dustbury.com/vent/vent477.html
Nostradamus posted this a while ago.. Very interesting outlook on what is currently happening..
April 25th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
He’s saying that keeping the team here and fighting the move isn’t good for the anyone.
April 25th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
He’s just posturing to see if we bite. They won’t go 2 more years on this thing.
April 25th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Regarding basketball … gasp! … Steve Kerr is an idiot.
The supposed logic behind why Kerr traded Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks for Shaquille O’Neal astounds me to this day. If Kerr really wanted to rid the Suns’ lockerroom of Marion’s surly attitude, then he should’ve done something like offered “The Matrix” to the Sacramento Kings for Brad Miller and Ron Artest.
Unlike O’Neal, Miller and Artest should’ve meshed well within Mike D’Antoni’s offense — as Miller could’ve play power forward on offense and center on defense to free up Amare Stoudemire, while Artest would’ve adequately replaced Marion — however, Kerr went off of the deep end in an attempt to make a big splash.
All in all, Kerr should be fired over this error in judgement.
April 25th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
As an addendum to my last post, Steve Kerr could’ve settled for John Salmons if Geoff Petrie didn’t want to part with Ron Artest.
Hell, Salmons and Brad Miller still would’ve been a smarter acquisition than an over-the-hill Shaquille O’Neal, who can’t defend the pick-’n'-roll, sucks at foul shooting, and is unable to function at his best within a fast-paced, run-’n'-gun offensive system.
How did Kerr get a job as a front office executive?
April 25th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
Jeff Van Gundy, who’s doing color commentary for the San Antonio Spurs versus Phoenix Suns game tonight, is correct that “fans are strange.”
Undoubtedly, Van Gundy’s assessment about the collective idiocy of basketball fans — which came after the Suns’ crowd cheered for Shaquille O’Neal after he didn’t rotate properly on defense and, in turn, was forced to lay lumber upon Emanuel Ginobili with a hard foul — is a dead-on observation.
Why are most fans idiots?
April 25th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
It is a little funny how Stern thinks he’s ‘all that’ and more….. like an idol. A god. A blessing to humanity.
April 25th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Refs calling some seriously inconsistent lane violations on Shaq in this SA PHO game….
IF Clay was a former part-owner of the Spurs, and Stern is willing to lie and deceive for Clay THEN is Stern possibly in love with the current Spurs organization enough to come up with the Duncan acquisition and these days… the inconsistent, SA-favored refing that we seem to always see in these SA/PHO playoff series?
“Who cares about Phoenix? If it’s the Lakers (big market, $$$), you’re on your own…”
I can’t seem him cheating for SA (boring team, boring series) unless those SA boys really know how to…fluff? Or those boys are his kind of people? But would he bend over backwards to that extent for them? Where did Clay learn how to fluff up Stern…hmm Is Stern bending over backwards to the point of jeopardizing the league’s reputation for Clay? hmm…. It’s funny how a lot of the Spurs offense and defense (Ginobili running into people on both ends, Bowen’s “defense”) is catered to depend heavily on the refing…
April 25th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Shaq has shot FTs the same way to 10+ years and now Steve Javie is going to start calling lane violations crossing the FT line before the ball hits the rim? WTF? The Spurs do not need help from the officials.
April 25th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Don’t panic people. This is up to a judge now, not David Stern. Don’t forget that he has to say what he is saying because we haven’t really started negotiating with the NBA yet. Nobody wants to try and negotiate in a position of weakness. I guarantee his lawyers have told him of the very real possibility Howard Schultz could win his lawsuit.
I see no way that this is going to end without negotiation anyway. Does anyone want to see this thing go all the way to the Supreme Court? There is the unlikely, yet real scenario of the team being held in a “constructive trust” after the two years of the lease runs out, while the case is in appeals.
This is why Stern has to continue to play hardball. He has to think of the negotiations to settle these lawsuits while at the same time being careful of what he says because of the litigation. If he suddenly started backtracking now, we would win without much of a fight. I know it is pissing a lot of people off to read his comments but expecting anything different should not be expected.
You wouldn’t expect anything else of an attorney defending a client. This is what they are trained to do. Could you imagine a defense attorney meeting with the media and suddenly stating that maybe his client wasn’t as innocent as he thought? I know, I know different scenarios, but not as different as it would first appear.
April 25th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
STERN says Sonics Relocation wiill be “HARD” to reverse…what an a hole stern is
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3368294
April 25th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
“Hard to reverse”
That means he is giving it some thought!
April 25th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
in that article Stern says that they are prepared to play the next two seasons in Seattle if need be…and then move to OKC…
these guys(Stern and Bennett) make me sick…absolutely sick…
April 25th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
Stern does not want Suns to win because he does not want them to go deep or to the finals because he knows he cannot show up at a Suns game - the fans will boo him like crazy & chants “Stern Sucks” or worse.
They hate him in Phoenix for the NBA’s suspensions last year.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Phoenix has three more years of Shaq at $20M/year. They are toast. How do they get better? Who will take him? Miami found a sucker in PHX.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
There might be only one way to save the league from disclosing documents and to stop Stern from having to testify. That would be to voluntarily withdraw its lawsuit. Because the disclosures may damage the NBA and provide fuel for Starbuck’s lawsuit, Bennett might have to pull out.
Otherwise, I cannot imagine a federal court letting Stern escape being deposed, because the relationship between the Stern and Bennett is easily established and the relevance is obvious.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Not sure how its all connected but IF Clay pulls out for David (ewww) and gets out of the city case couldn’t Schultz go for the same thing? Their relationship/emails still speak to the good faith effort.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
I can’t believe Phoenix gave us their 2010 first round pick. Even better…it’s not lottery protected. That team is only going to have Amare and Barbosa left. I think that pick will turn out to be top 10.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
I find it funny that Stern is saying the Sonics are moving this year, next year, or the year after that. If I remember right the BoG have to vote each year to decide if they will allow a team to move. Yes we all know that nobody can truly stop a move from happening because an owner would just sue the league but really. If I was a member of the BoG I would be telling him to piss off and vote to deny the move next season. I mean the dude works for the owners and not the other way around!
April 25th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
Rock - unless I am reading your post wrong - Clay is the defendent - only the city can withdraw the lawsuit. He’s stuck and put himself in this position when he filed for arbitration.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
Is anyone really surprised by Stern’s comments? I don’t think he sweats until judge forces him to talk under oath to seattle’s lawyers.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
I`m seriously starting to question Stern`s sanity.
“Could I imagine circumstances, without precedent, where some court does something? It would be hard to imagine there would be any circumstances legally that would preclude the Sonics from moving at the end of their lease.”
Now i`m no lawyer and i`ve tried not to buy in to the hype but almost every so called expert who has evaluated the impending cases have stated that they aren`t exactly unwinnable. Some even going so far as to state that the odds are actually stacked in our favour. Yet here`s Stern, a lawyer by profession, stating quite clearly he can see NO CHANCE he could lose. That shows a seriously limited imagination which would go some way to explaining the demise of the NBA. If its not a lack of imagination then its an extreme case of arrogance (as evidenced pretty much every time he opens his mouth). I can`t help but notice he states at the “end of the lease”. Could he be so sure because he`s already thinking of seeing the lease out to avoid the prospect of being cross examined under oath.
With regards two years of a lame duck he states the following:
“It wouldn’t be optimum for either the NBA, the team or the city, but if that’s what it’s going to be, that’s what it’s going to be,”
Or “i know its a complete freakin mess but i`ve promised my Clay Clay to give him what he wants no matter what”. Well that sounds like some inspired leadership from a league comissioner. How happy can other NBA cities/fans/owners be about this kind of attitude? Are they blind to how blinkered this man is.
And finally:
“I think, ultimately, despite the novel and face-saving attempts to construct cause of action, that the Sonics are moving to Oklahoma,”
I want to see this man on the stand!!! But more than that i want to see him gone. This whole mess lies squarely at his feet and i can`t understand (i`ll admit i`m not entirely sure how the inner sanctums of the NBA boys club works) how those that have the power to get shot of this idiot aren`t considering doing just that. The situation in Seattle will be the biggest black eye to the NBA since the lockout (also under his tenure!) and if he survives this and goes on to fulfill his legacy with his much desired global expansion then i can only see the NBA will dying a slow a painful death.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
http://whereistand.com/blog/kylesmith/273
This guy says its bennett’s right to move the team to OKC, doesn’t even address the lawsuit or anything. Could you say delusional?
April 25th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Stern is a pathetic little man who is so impressed with himself. His comments while infuriating, are just more of the same crap. He hates Seattle, and he’ll do anything to help his lover get a team in OKC. I just hope the judge allows him to be deposed.
Hey, here’s a good way to raise a portion of the $75 million for the arena upgrades. Put the upcoming trial on pay-per-view. I’d pay good money to see Brokeback Bennett and Gay David sweat and squirm their way into dual perjury charges.
On another note: Steve Kerr is lookin’ like an idiot right about now. When they first announced the Shaq deal, I was stunned that Phoenix would pull the trigger, because his style of play doesn’t even come close to the D’Antoni run-and-gun, up-tempo offense. And obviously the experiment has proven to be a disaster. Man, that’s one expensive experiment!!! Booted in the first round of the playoffs and a couple more years of Shaq’s ridiculous contract to deal with. YIKES!!!!
I REALLY hate the Spurs!!! I hope the Lakers beat the holy crap out of ‘em in the Western Finals.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I HOPE THEY EXPOSE STERN FOR THE PIECE OF SH!T HE IS!
GO STRAIGHT FOR THE JUGULAR SLADE, NOO SETTLEMENT!
LETS MAKE THIS THING BLOW UP IN STERNS FACE!
April 25th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Stone: Yes, that’s the beauty of the Schultz lawsuit. Unlike the city’s case, Stern can’t say he’s just going to wait the thing out. He knows that. Schultz can keep the team tied up in Seattle for an unknown period of time, perhaps even more than two years, just by litigating his claim. And all that time the outcome would be unknown, including the prospect of it ending with a judge holding an auction to sell the team locally. No Stern needed for that. And I want to see a time when Bennett still owns the franchise but can’t touch it because the judge has placed it in a trust…
April 25th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
The more I think about Stern’s words, the more I notice the weasel words: “hard to imagine” how a court would stop the Sonics from moving in two years, “I think” they will move to OKC. He likes to slam the door, but he never quite locks them. He knows he needs to stay one step away from absolute statements because he needs room to squirm out of this when the moment comes…
April 25th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
What is Sterns deal anyways? He could put an end to all of this mess.
I’m one hundred percent positive thiis is going to come back to bite him in the ass.
BR whats new man?
April 25th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
It sucks but Phoenix just can’t beat the Spurs.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
Stern said a few months ago that they were prepared to wait out the two years, he said it again, the difference being that a few months ago it sounded like a credible threat, now it sounds like a pathetic lie he tells himself.
He has to get all this BS out there before he has to testify, then, the world flips right side up.
Like I’ve said, it may not be Bennett’s team to move.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:14 pm
God….David Stern just never knows when to shut his arrogant little mouth! You’d think he’d learn to shut the hell up by now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
April 25th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
You know… I’ve been thinking about all of this, and it just seems so crazy…
How is this all going to end?
Stern just continues to support Clay (no matter what evidence comes up). They could find a smoking gun and Stern would still back Clay…
So, I just don’t know how all this will end up. It seems like Stern is going to relocate out of spite, but doesn’t that leave a HUGE dent on the NBA’s reputation???
I would think that if more and more evidence comes forward, and he just keeps saying, “the sonics are moving no matter what”, then others in the NBA ranks should become concerned about the NBA’s image and appeal in the long term…
It’s like saying, “Oh yeah, Clay Lied… but we don’t care, we’re going to move the team anyway”. What does that say to other cities or even international expansion? This is really starting to get too deep for the NBA to come out on top…
If they stop the relocation, they lost a little bit of face, and they may hear jeers for a few years, but that is nothing compared to the long term damage they may do to the whole league if they continue to ignore the obvious facts.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
SeaSonics Says:
April 25th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
“What is Sterns deal anyways? He could put an end to all of this mess.”
No, he can not. Donald Sterling still owns the Clippers, Michael E. Heisley is about to move the Grizz again. There isn’t a thing Stern can do about it. If an owner wants to do something Stern is paid to help them do it. He can’t stop much.
It really is all about the court cases, Schultz’s is the only one that can actually keep the team here without Bennett changing his mind in some way.
Go Howard!
April 25th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
“The NBA is already a global thing. And thats why moving a team hurts the NBA that much: You can´t go out to Asia, Europe and tell the people that the NBA is the place where something special happens and than tell them, that you don´t care for tradition.
Relocating teams is a North American thing, that nobody else elsewhere can understand and forgive.
Making the NBA a global thing and than acting against the cultre of sports isn´t working.”
You’re right.
Teams don’t move in Europe(because we’ve got clubs and no franchise system) and the connection between the fans and their clubs is the most important thing.
Without the fans, there ain’t no pro leagues(that, of course, is the same in the states), cause if nobody is interested in that sport, then there isn’t a chance to make money with it and have guys make their hobby a profession.
Acting the way, they’re doing with their re-locations, would be a huge black eye in Europe and would hardly ever be forgiven by those European folks.
Also, as a German, speaking about a chance of a city in my country supporting an NBA team for a full season.
I can’t, at all, see this happen.
First of all, football(or soccer, how you call it) is the clear cut #1 and even those NBA stars won’t get close to it.
Then there’s the financial part of it. I don’t see how anyone would regularly pay those NBA prices(what is it? at least $200 per game, if you want a good seat and something to eat and drink?), when, in comparison, you’re able to have great seats and something to eat and drink at a Bundesliga match(soccer) for something like 40 Euros(there are way cheaper tickets available that start at around 10 Euros), which is about something like 63 US Dollars.
All things considered, Sterns vision of expanding to europe(i can’t say anything about Asia, cause i don’t know the market there) is something that will not work. You can’t just come to Europe and tell people, here i am, i’ve got my great sports product with me and now you’re going to love ever facet of it and fill my pockets with your nice looking coloured money.
So the best thing the NBA could do is to keep sending some of their teams overseas, so they hold their training camp there and play some exhibition games. Or he could do it like the NFL and play a regular season game or two in asia/europe.
Anything else is just a pipe dream.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
AK1984 hocked up: “Also, the influx of new posters is a gigantic nuisance.”
So go start your own blog. I’m sure it would be superior in every way.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:27 pm
Heisley is moving hte Grizzlies again? i know they aren’t doing so well in Memphis but aren’t they under a long lease til like 2015?
April 25th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
I read the link Otto provided - did I miss something? When did Bennett ever offer up $100MM for the Renton arena? Never I think is the correct answer.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:39 pm
So go start your own blog. I’m sure it would be superior in every way.” {Jaz}
I lack the work ethic to do it.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
brett Says:
Rock - unless I am reading your post wrong - Clay is the defendent - only the city can withdraw the lawsuit. He’s stuck and put himself in this position when he filed for arbitration.
The City’s suit is a “Stay of Arbitration”. If Bennett withdraws his arbitration request, then the case is over.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
It was mentioned in an earlier thread that there were at least 150,000 emails turned over to the city/Slade/Shultz. So far the few emails that have surfaced appear to be very damning and we are hopeful that there will be even more proof of fraud and possibly even collusion.
But I wonder if maybe the most damning evidence of all won’t be a dozen emails detailing plans to move the Sonics to OKC, but rather 150,000 emails NOT demonstrating any attempts to keep the team in Seattle. You would think that if the PBC was truly making ‘best efforts’ there would thousands of emails detailing their persistent efforts to meet with city officials, architects, lawyers, bankers, realtors, fans, media, etc.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
If Bennett really will lose $30mil per year through 2010, plus pay the relocation fee, he may find the $90mil too much to bear. He can get another team. (Not to mention what he has already lost). Bennett can save Stern by dropping the lawsuit and bailing.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
AK1984 Says:
How did Kerr get a job as a front office executive?
Suns fans were booing tonight. They were all gung-ho about rematch with the Spurs. Watching the Suns high paced game game go down in flames via the hack-a-Shaq must’ve been a tough pill to swallow. 9-17, what a bum.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
NBA Commissioner David Stern’s envisioning of expansion into European markets is just a grandiose pipe dream. F_ck, if Stern seriously believes that it’s a reasonably pragmatic plan to further globalize the NBA overseas via expansion, then he’s goddamn near the brink of insanity.
In any event, though, Silvio’s post on that topic hits the nail on the head.
April 25th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
AK Says (can’t use the full name or the post goes in moderation, LOL):
April 25th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
As an addendum to my last post, Steve Kerr could’ve settled for John Salmons if Geoff Petrie didn’t want to part with Ron Artest.
Hell, Salmons and Brad Miller still would’ve been a smarter acquisition than an over-the-hill Shaquille O’Neal, who can’t defend the pick-’n’-roll, sucks at foul shooting, and is unable to function at his best within a fast-paced, run-’n’-gun offensive system.
How did Kerr get a job as a front office executive?
April 25th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
Sorry, screwed that up…
AK*edit*Says:
How did Kerr get a job as a front office executive?
Suns fans were booing tonight. They were all gung-ho about rematch with the Spurs. Watching the Suns high paced game game go down in flames via the hack-a-Shaq must’ve been a tough pill to swallow. 9-17, what a bum.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Dick Tate said:
“The City’s suit is a “Stay of Arbitration”. If Bennett withdraws his arbitration request, then the case is over.”
No. The City already won the arbitration ruling - that was the ruling handed down several months ago by Judge Martinez, who noted in his ruling that the PBC’s request for arbitration was “as errant as a Shaquille O’Neal free throw.”
The City then filed a separate lawsuit to enforce the Specific Performance clause in the lease. That is where we are today.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
http://youtube.com/watch?v=AOJIM5-Zmv0
April 25th, 2008 at 11:06 pm
“Phoenix has three more years of Shaq at $20M/year. They are toast. How do they get better? Who will take him? Miami found a sucker in PHX.” {Patches Pal}
It’s two more seasons.
Steve Kerr, however, is still an idiot.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:06 pm
It might be a waste of time to count on Stern, &/or Bennett to flinch. Showing any signs of weakness would probably be the last thing they would do. We can however probably count on them continuing to say really stupid things, and continuing on their (by any means necessary) type of path.
It seems that even coming with some kind of deal, or offer might make their position look weaker as well, so I’m not sure if that count be counted on either from their side.
The good news(I hope it’s good news) is that it really is up to a judge now. Not Clay, NOT Stern. They had their little day in the sun last Friday, and did the only thing they could do(approve). That was the last blow that I can see them throwing(what more can they do), unless we lose the lawsuits?
On the other hand, God only knows how many more blows are left to come from our side. I wouldn’t even be surprised if a knock out punch came at some time in the near future. I won’t count on that either, but this is definitely far from over, and it seems like we’ve kind of weathered the storm.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
Dick - Bennett lost his request for arbitration. The court ruled arbitration was not allowable per the terms of the lease and any disputes must be heard in court. That was settled long ago - Bennett is now a defendent in a lawsuit by the city over the specific performance clause in the lease which is completey unrelated to his arbitration request. He is stuck.
http://tinyurl.com/2add2y
http://tinyurl.com/ypk736
April 25th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
Bennett lost his request for arbitration. The court ruled arbitration was not allowable per the terms of the lease and any disputes must be heard in court. That was settled long ago - Bennett is now a defendent in a lawsuit by the city over the specific performance clause in the lease which is completey unrelated to his arbitration request. He is stuck.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
I guess it’s related in the sense that the city filed it because Bennett tried to get around the terms of the least by filing for arbitration, but legally speaking the two are not related. One has been resolved - Bennett lost, the other is being heard in June.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
I guess it’s related in the sense that the city filed it because Bennett tried to get around the terms of the lease by filing for arbitration, but legally speaking the two are not related. One has been resolved - Bennett lost, the other is being heard in June.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
Wow AK.. I did not think that us NEW POSTERS with a passion for saving the Sonics was disrupting your life so much.. I also did not realize this was your forum. I can tell by your postings that you are 22 going on 12..have 3 shirts that say question authority, destroyed property in the wto march and have a part time job at best. Maybe people are tired of you and your negative postings all the time.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
AK: dead-on about Kerr. The Shaq trade was awful, and Kerr sucks as a GM. It would be fun to watch him explain to Sarver the logic behind giving his best lowpost defender, Kurt Thomas, to the Spurs, and the team’s next 2 first round picks to Seattle.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
For everyone who’s bitchin’ like an obnoxious ©üñ♰ about the officiating throughout the San Antonio Spurs versus Phoenix Suns series, I’ve got one thing to say to y’all: Spurs are better than the Suns—and that’s that!
April 25th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
If things keep going in the direction they appear to be heading, Clay Bennett will have to take a bullet to save David Stern and the NBA.
David Stern and the NBA will not take a bullet to save Bennett.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
“Wow AK.. I did not think that us NEW POSTERS with a passion for saving the Sonics was disrupting your life so much.. I also did not realize this was your forum. I can tell by your postings that you are 22 going on 12..have 3 shirts that say question authority, destroyed property in the wto march and have a part time job at best. Maybe people are tired of you and your negative postings all the time.” {bringbacktheglove}
All right, I was a bit angry with my desire for bringing back the ol’ days of yore. It was definitely more enjoyable when people around here talked and debated about basketball rather than a bunch of political bullsh_t involving the possible relocation of the Seattle SuperSonics.
Yet, as it is, I’ll eventually come to grips with the shift.
Anyhow, for whatever it’s worth, I’m a minarchist and not an anarchist — although I advocate economic protectionism and, therefore, absolutely detest the World Trade Organization, free-trade agreements (e.g., NAFTA), et cetera — thus, I’d never support the use of violence to further one’s agenda.
Basically, I find most anarchists to be radical extremists.
You, however, made an astute observation about my disdain for authoritative figures; nonetheless, I don’t wear inane t-shirts that sport rhetoric such “question authority” and other vapid quips. Hell, people who wear that kind of asinine garb look like complete and utter tools—there’s no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
Now, with regards to my negative demeanor, I understand that it’s extraordinarily off-putting to several folks. That’s just my natural style, though; plus, it balances stuff out around here.
Lastly, I’m a 23-year-old guy who, despite possessing an indignant attitude toward many things, has a maturity and intelligence level that far surpassess some pre-teen dimwit.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
“If things keep going in the direction they appear to be heading, Clay Bennett will have to take a bullet to save David Stern and the NBA.
David Stern and the NBA will not take a bullet to save Bennett.” {courtsense}
I agree with you one-hundred percent there.
If somehow all hell breaks lose for the NBA, then I wouldn’t put it past David Stern to throw Clay Bennett under the proverbial bus. Yet, under that scenario, Bennett could theoretically file an anti-trust suit against the NBA.
Sh_t, that’d make things even more interesting here.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
Brett, I enjoyed your earlier link to the satire about Clay purchasing the Olympics. And I really enjoyed someof the comments from Oklahomans, especially the one from Steve.
There are a lot of great people from Oklahoma who want nothing to do with Clay Bennett & Aubrey McClendon & Tom Ward’s theft of the Seattle Sonics team from Seattle. We don’t have a lot of enemies here, and we’ll have even more allies if we don’t attack the wrong people. It’s not the people of Oklahoma City’s fault that they have shady businessmen who will lie, cheat, and steal to get what they want.
Here is Steve’s post:
“I was at the state Capitol here in OKC yesterday, trying to get legislatures to say HELL NO to the latest gift of $60-$100m to these hoodlums. An old guy working the tourist info booth hollered at me, aware of my efforts and gave me all kinds of great dirt on McClendon.
I didn’t know what a saladpuncher he was with regards to past business dealings, but apparently he’s just another George “Dubya!” Bush…only he married in….anyway there is this big housing complex here he helped start, and apparently he went so far over that his father-in-law (Gaylord) banned him from the development site….”why the hell did my daughter marry an idiot like you!!!!” he cried…
The guy is scum, as are the other owners.
-Steve Hunt” - Oklahoma City resident
If we reached out to OKC citizens, we could support an Oklahoma movement to stop the Theft of the Sonics from Seattle. There are more than a few people there who feel that way and their voice needs to be heard nationally. Does anyone have any contacts in Oklahoma who are NOT sympathetic to Clay Clay & Co.?
April 25th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
Brett, I enjoyed your earlier link to the satire about Clay purchasing the Olympics. And I really enjoyed someof the comments from Oklahomans, especially the one from Steve.
There are a lot of great people from Oklahoma who want nothing to do with Clay Bennett & Aubrey McClendon & Tom Ward’s theft of the Seattle Sonics team from Seattle. We don’t have a lot of enemies here, and we’ll have even more allies if we don’t attack the wrong people. It’s not the people of Oklahoma City’s fault that they have shady businessmen who will lie, cheat, and steal to get what they want.
Here is Steve’s post:
“I was at the state Capitol here in OKC yesterday, trying to get legislatures to say HELL NO to the latest gift of $60-$100m to these hoodlums. An old guy working the tourist info booth hollered at me, aware of my efforts and gave me all kinds of great dirt on McClendon.
I didn’t know what a saladpuncher he was with regards to past business dealings, but apparently he’s just another George “Dubya!” Bush…only he married in….anyway there is this big housing complex here he helped start, and apparently he went so far over that his father-in-law (Gaylord) banned him from the development site….”why the hell did my daughter marry an idiot like you!!!!” he cried…
The guy is scum, as are the other owners.
-Steve Hunt” - Oklahoma City resident
If we reached out to OKC citizens, we could support an Oklahoma movement to stop the Theft of the Sonics from Seattle. There are more than a few people there who feel that way and their voice needs to be heard nationally. Does anyone have any contacts in Oklahoma who are NOT sympathetic to Clay Clay & Co.?
April 25th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
“If Bennett really will lose $30mil per year through 2010, plus pay the relocation fee, he may find the $90mil too much to bear. He can get another team. (Not to mention what he has already lost). Bennett can save Stern by dropping the lawsuit and bailing”
Guess that proves his point that keeping the team in Seattle is a poor business decision and as such, he needs to move.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
“It’s not the people of Oklahoma City’s fault that they have shady businessmen who will lie, cheat, and steal to get what they want.”
Last time I checked he bought the business fair and square and can move it whenever he wants(barring lease implications) and where ever he wants. Just because your city leadership is opposed to an arena deal does not mean he is a public utility. He is a free agent. Not even the NBA can stop him.
This stuff about lying and cheating is real juvenile. Th name calling is worse. Grow up.
April 25th, 2008 at 11:56 pm
Producer: Clay Bennett CAN NOT drop the lawsuit because the City of SEATTLE filed the lawsuit. The only solution for Clay is to sell the team if he wants to bail out. Seattle is the plaintiff and Clay is the defendant. Some people think the same way as you. But I just want to remind you that Clay can not drop it at all.
April 26th, 2008 at 12:00 am
Fair and square … soon to be determined by a court
April 26th, 2008 at 12:00 am
This is the link from earlier that brett posted about the ‘Breaking News’ that Clay Bennett has purchased the Olympics and despite his “Good Faith Best Efforts” to get a $15 Billion arena built in China, the effort had failed and he was left with no choice but to relocate the Olympics to Oklahoma City. It’s a couple weeks old, but if you haven’t read it, it’s worthwhile. It’s very short, too. And be sure to glance through some of the comments at the end.
http://tinyurl.com/4gqoh9
April 26th, 2008 at 12:07 am
Producer, that’s BS. Are you saying that Clay Bennett has not lied in most of his dealings with Seattle and Washington state? Are you saying he’s not guilty of fraud? And he is stealing the Sonics from Seattle under completely false pretenses. He bought them under deceptive circumstances. He did not make his good faith, best efforts to keep the Sonics here. Did you read what your fellow Oklahoman Steve Hunt had to say about their dirty business practices? Why are you an apologist for these characters? Are you on their payroll?
You’re telling me to grow up, Producer? Who the hell do you think you are? What an Ass.
April 26th, 2008 at 12:12 am
Yeah, there’s only several ways out for Bennett at this point, none of which include just dropping the lawsuit:
1) He sits down with the city and gets them to agree to a settlement. (Good luck since the Mayor has already said he won’t accept a buy-out on the lease.)
2) He gives up and decides to sell the team to Ballmer or another local ownership group. (this might be in the cards, but will most likely be dependent on Stern’s wishes. If things get too ugly for the NBA, Davey boy will have to pull his lover aside and force him to sell.)
3) He gives up and agrees to play the next two years at the Key, effectively ending the lease lawsuit. (this would surrender his recent BOG victory, meaning they’d have to vote again for relocation in two years. Plus, the Schultz suit would still be in effect, so basically this option looks highly unlikely.)
4) He throws caution to the wind and goes to court. (I don’t think he has a chance of hell winning the lease lawsuit, so this version of the Sonics is here for at least two more seasons. The wild card is the Shultz suit. I don’t think anyone can predict the outcome right now… especially since we’ve only had access to a small sampling of emails.)
In any case, things aren’t looking too rosy for Clay-Clay. There’s really no good option for him at this point, which obviously helps our SOS chances.
GO SUPES!!!
April 26th, 2008 at 12:13 am
“AK Says (can’t use the full name or the post goes in moderation, LOL)” {Dick Tate}
These are our moderators.
You guys make the politicians in Olympia look like they’ve got their priorities in line.
April 26th, 2008 at 12:17 am
While pointing out the ineptitude of Brian Robinson his crew of moderators — who come across as David Stern and the NBA owners, respectively, which isn’t a compliment — I screw up the italics tag.
That, folks, is known as irony.
April 26th, 2008 at 12:23 am
“Are you saying he’s not guilty of fraud?” {David M. Brown, MD}
Hey, Doc., whether or not Clay Bennett committed fraud in the nominal definition is much different than with regards to the legal sense of it. As of this moment, the latter is seemingly a fifty-fifty proposition; thus, nobody knows what’ll be the outcome in that case.
From,
Anthony T. King, Associate of Arts & Sciences Degree
April 26th, 2008 at 12:31 am
Producer:
Last time I checked he bought the business fair and square
The courts will decide that one Producer.
April 26th, 2008 at 12:31 am
“Suns fans were booing tonight. They were all gung-ho about rematch with the Spurs. Watching the Suns high paced game game go down in flames via the hack-a-Shaq must’ve been a tough pill to swallow. 9-17, what a bum.” {Dick Tate}
The Phoenix Suns probably won’t be able to dump Shaquille O’Neal until midway through the final year of his contract (i.e., the 2009-2010 season), so it’s going to be a bumpy ride for that franchise next season.
I also suggest that Jeff Green fans intently watch Boris Diaw; that’s Green’s closest comparison to anyone else in the NBA. You guys who have high hopes for Green will, well, be sorely disappointed in the long run.
Y’all can thank boy wonder Sam Presti for that f_ckup.
April 26th, 2008 at 12:35 am
courtsense Says:
No. The City already won the arbitration ruling - that was the ruling handed down several months ago by Judge Martinez, who noted in his ruling that the PBC’s request for arbitration was “as errant as a Shaquille O’Neal free throw.”
Yes, you’re right, I read one of the docs wrong. The court granted the stay of arbitration on Oct 29th. It also ruled that all disputes were related to Article II of the lease and thus would be argued during the trial.
The City then filed a separate lawsuit to enforce the Specific Performance clause in the lease. That is where we are today.
It was the same lawsuit, filed by the City on Sept 24th. Here’s the lawsuit. See page 11 for the judgement the City is seeking:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2007/09/24/2003899710.pdf
#2 was settled by the Stay of Arbitration. If the Sonics drop the request for a cash settlement, agree to play out the lease and pay the court costs, there’s nothing left to sue for. Case ends.
April 26th, 2008 at 12:43 am
Oh Producer.
You really need to start reading all the info. You can start here
( http://tinyurl.com/6c68gw ) to get up to speed.
Buyer beware. If it was such a bad deal why did he buy the team?? Oh to move them you say? Well part of his agreement with the seller was to give a “good faith” effort to keep the team in Seattle.. The most recent emails (from an another lawsuit with the city)are not looking like “good faith” and in fact quite the opposite.
come back when you get a clue..
April 26th, 2008 at 12:52 am
Sonic Scott Says:
4) He throws caution to the wind and goes to court. (I don’t think he has a chance of hell winning the lease lawsuit, so this version of the Sonics is here for at least two more seasons.
I wish I could feel that certain. The prospects of losing $60M over the next two seasons? Who can really say how the judge will react to that?
April 26th, 2008 at 12:55 am
Dick Tate said:
“If the Sonics drop the request for a cash settlement, agree to play out the lease and pay the court costs, there’s nothing left to sue for. Case ends.”
Precisely.
It will be interesting to see if Bennett and his OKC Rustlers are truly as committed to the pain as they’ve always claimed to be.
April 26th, 2008 at 1:36 am
Producer,
The team was sold to him in understanding that he would make an effort to get things done here.
It wasn’t sold to him so he could move it.
This is not, ” its mine so I can do whatever I want with it”
this is, ” you can buy this as long as you do x and y”
Shitty for him he forgot to do those things….. and he left a pretty incriminating paper trail.
Woo hoo!
April 26th, 2008 at 1:38 am
Stern is going down.
Ta ta commish. Your days are numbered.
April 26th, 2008 at 1:58 am
See you scumbags in court.(Stern and Satan Bennnett)
April 26th, 2008 at 2:04 am
You guys know Stern and Bennett are stressing right now.
Good.
Our time will come Stern. You watch, you simpleton.
April 26th, 2008 at 2:25 am
nothing new with Stern. He works for these owners, of course he will side with Clay.
Frankly, now that I know we have a shot at this Howard Shultz’ lawsuit, I can care less about what Stern says.
Everything will be decided in court. We have thousands of e-mails for evidences.
Right now Clay looks to have the upper hand, but as soon as the situation does a “sweet flip”, Stern will be singing Seattle’s praise again.
I’ve always thought he was a good commisioner, but as days go by, he looks more and more like a b!tch@ss servant of 30 wealthy men.
April 26th, 2008 at 3:08 am
“I wish I could feel that certain. The prospects of losing $60M over the next two seasons? Who can really say how the judge will react to that?” {Dick Tate}
Although I’m not an overly optimistic knucklehead like some people aroud this joint, even my assumption is that the Professional Basketball Club, LLC has almost no chance in winning its case against the City of Seattle over the Key Arena lease.
Unless there’s an agreed upon buyout between Mayor Greg Nickels and Clay Bennett — which is about as likely as me being removed from never-ending moderation — then the Seattle SuperSonics will remain in the Emerald City through the 2009-2010 season.
“It will be interesting to see if Bennett and his OKC Rustlers are truly as committed to the pain as they’ve always claimed to be.” {courtsense}
Yet, if Bennett holds his ground and ponies up the cash that’s needed to ram heads with Howard “Turncoat” Schultz in court, then my fear is that NBA Commissioner David Stern will get his ultimate wish—which is to have the SuperSonics playing in Oklahoma City to open the 2010-2011 season.
I, unlike some people around here, still fear that Schultz’s case regarding fraud on Bennett’s end over the good faith clause is a sketchy, flimsy piece of litigation. Besides, the skeptic in me strongly feels that Schultz is going through with this solely to save face.
Right now, the fatalistic viewpoint includes the following:
1. Stern and the NBA Board of Governors keeping Oklahoma City an open market for Bennett to relocate there in 2010, which can be done by nudging George Shinn to focus his mind on moving the New Orleans Hornets to another metropolitan area (e.g., Kansas City).
2. The Washington State Legislature, Seattle City Council, and private financers (e.g., Steve Ballmer) still can’t figure out a way to collectively fund the renovations that are needed at Key Arena.
3. Schultz, who’s still a traitor in my book, loses his case against the Professional Basketball Club, LLC due to a lack of tangible evidence regarding Bennett alleged violation of the good faith clause that’s within the sale agreement.
4. The SuperSonics turn into the Oklahoma City Barons come 2010.
5. There’s no expansion team on the horizon in Washington State for potentially decades, which would be a heartbreaker for everyone—including the numbskulls who fellate Kevin Durant in their dreams and claim that they’d never support an expansion ballclub.
All things considered, Save Our Sonics must be careful not to dig its own grave. Once the cause is buried six feet under with Bennett as the executioner and Stern as the undertaker, it’ll be hard for this region to climb out of that hell hole.
Indeed, it’s sometimes prudent to accept a plea deal.
April 26th, 2008 at 3:19 am
…
April 26th, 2008 at 3:21 am
I just posted this over at NewsOK.com on Mike Sherman’s Sports Blog where he is talking about naming their new NBA team and his 64-name bracket. There are 175 replies or so there and a lot of name-calling and harassing of OKC & its fans by Seattle Sonics fans, mostly S.O.S. people. After reading them all, this is what I wanted the people of Oklahoma City to know:
I’m a Sonics fan and have been for 40 years, and to me this is just so appalling to have all this underhanded dealings going on. I don’t blame the people of OKC in any way, but Do You Really Want the Blood of the Seattle SuperSonics on Your Hands Forever? Some of you I’m sure are fine with that, but you ned to stop and consider how this is all going to go down. You could be at the center of the Biggest Scandal in Pro Sports ever. The way the team was obtained under false promises (fraud) - the ruse by Clay Bennett and company to give the appearance of a “Good Faith Best Effort” and then the fact that even he got impatient with that and had the arrogance to think that he could pull the plug early on the attempt to get a new arena as long as didn’t make the official announcement until 365 days had passed. His efforts were widely regarded as jokes - the legislature said that they were not lobbied at all before he and David Stern came to testify and ask them for $400 or $500 Million. That is total lunacy. No one would go before a legislature asking for that kind of money without doing a lot of preparation beforehand and lobbying at least the key legislators UNLESS IT WAS AN ACT OF BAD FAITH AND THEY WANTED TO ENSURE THAT IT WOULD FAIL. There is no other possible explanation for 2 intelligent (?) businessmen who run large corporations and have dealt with legislatures before. And guess what? David Stern went with Clay to give it an air of validity. Guess who knew what Clay’s intentions were all along and not only condoned it, but colluded with Clay to help him to pull off the ruse on the people of Seattle, and help Clay to shift the blame to the Washington State legislature instead of PBC LLC for the “Relocation” (read “theft”) of the Seattle Sonics. They have been very successful in shifting most of the blame to the legislature through their Mickey-Mouse efforts.
I want you to consider this: As this thing heats up more (and it will), more and more evidence is going to come out about the conspiracy to steal the Sonics from Seattle and it won’t be pretty. Unless Bennett sells the team now to Seattle owners, this will go to trial and a lot of ugliness will come out and this will become a bigger and bigger scandal for Clay Bennett, PBC LLC, David Stern, the NBA, and Oklahoma, unfortunately. It will get very big. And when the complete truth is known, David Stern will have to stop being so arrogant, because everyone will know what a manipulator and intimidator that he is and how he protects obsequious owners like Clay Bennett.
I think this naming of the Oklahoma City NBA franchise is quite premature and somewhat in bad taste (although, believe me, we understand your enthusiasm regarding having your own NBA team), given the gaping wounds that have been opened up on the Seattle Citizenry. There is a lot of pain, a lot of hurt, a lot of confusion over how this could happen. How David Stern could let this happen, except that now we’ve found out he has been in on it for quite awhile. This is not the way a Commisioner should act. He has created ill will with a huge market and one that will never forgive and never forget if we lose our Sonics. An expansion team is not an option for us. Almost no one would support it. OKC could get an expansion team IF the NBA expands.
You’ll get to see how creative David Stern can be. If he wants to save any face at all, he will probably have to end this fairly soon and persuade Clay to sell the Sonics. If he does not, he will be deposed and we’ll see if he wants to risk lying under oath or not. Doesn’t the fact that he is fighting being deposed make you a little uncomfortable? It could turn into a criminal case. At the very least, when the truth comes out, David Stern will have to step down or be removed from office. He will go out in shame and infamy. Also once the fraud is proven, Clay Bennett & PBC will also be shamed and prohibited from owning another NBA team. This is what the trial is going to do. Clay Bennett does not want that and David Stern does not want that. You all will have to ask yourselves if that is what you want. If David and Clay are able to stop this before it gets to that point, and sell the Sonics back to a Washington owner, then I’m sure that David will continue to protect Clay and get him another team. But if their arrogance gets in the way, and they think they can win this thing and not be badly tarnished, then watch out because there won’t be a David Stern around anymore and no one else is going to look out for OKC and Clay like he did, so you probably won’t get an NBA team anytime soon.
You need to think about what kind of headlines you want to see. Do you want OKC to be disgraced - the center of a big scandal or do you want to encourage Clay to sell the Sonics back to local Seattle interests and get a new team all your own without a storied 41-year tradition. In Seattle, we’re only known for our “scorched earth” policy when we have been dealt a severe blow and suffered a grave injustice at the hands of another. If we lose OUR SONICS, there are many, many of us who are committed to scorch the earth of the NBA - because ultimately that is where the evil resides. We will do everything in our power to bring down the NBA. We will let everyone know of the rampant corruption there that emanates from the office of David Stern. If we lose the Sonics, there will be many casualties and the “new” NBA franchise in OKC will be forever tainted with scandal and Seattle’s blood. Is that how you really want to be known across the country and even overseas. I believe that you citizens of Oklahoma can do something about this before it is too late.
If you remain oblivious to what is happening and pretend that you will be getting the Sonics in 2009 or 2010, and continue to endorse Clay Bennett and his methods for obtaining this basketball team, then, please don’t say that I didn’t warn you before the trial started. It’s not going to be pretty.
One last thing, we should never be fighting each other over this. As I said, our emotions are pretty raw in Seattle. Most of us have grown up going to Sonics games and gone with our parents and taken our kids to games and rooted for this team through thick and thin - going deep in the playoffs to having the second worst record in the NBA. When we get emotional, we say a lot of things that we don’t mean. I feel badly about several Sonics fans that have taken out their frustration on Oklahoma in general and its citizens. I know that a lot of it has gone both ways, too. A lot of the derision is because the call to name the new NBA team in OKC rubbed a lot of people the wrong way and it was probably a poor choice of topics at this point, but to each their own.
I don’t want to go through a litany of posts & critique them, but there is one that definitely should never have been written. Putting things in perspective, anger over losing a Basketball team ceases to be meaningful when you throw up the Oklahoma City Bombing in peoples’ faces as the only thing that the rest of the world ever cared enough about to pay any attention to OKC. That was more than uncalled for and in poor taste, it was an abomination - something that no one should ever say about such an unbelievable tragedy and loss of human life that affected many people - it really affected all of us, and may have personally affected some of the readers here. I want to apologize for that comment on behalf of the people of Seattle, because I know that at least 99.9% of us would never condone a comment like that.
We are certainly very frustrated here. We know that there are some people in OKC who do not like the way Clay Bennett & Co. have gone about their business, and how much subsidy that he is asking the legislature for with money that could help needy Oklahomans rather than rich ones, but the aid seemed to pass with flying colors. What we are really asking you here is would you be willing to help us get our team back and get a different team to come play ball in OKC? Most of you won’t be, I know, but if there are one or two people who can see the handwriting on the wall and want to help find a peaceful solution to the problem, then I would love to hear from you and I’m sure the rest of S.O.S. would, too. There are a lot of great people there, most of whom don’t hate Oklahoma or OKC residents and realize that we could be working together for an amicable solution to get both cities their own NBA teams.
- ZenDoc
April 26th, 2008 at 3:26 am
I just posted this over at NewsOK.com on Mike Sherman’s Sports Blog where he is talking about naming their new NBA team and his 64-name bracket. There are 175 replies or so there and a lot of name-calling and harassing of OKC & its fans by Seattle Sonics fans, mostly S.O.S. people. After reading them all, this is what I wanted the people of Oklahoma City to know:
I’m a Sonics fan and have been for 40 years, and to me this is just so appalling to have all this underhanded dealings going on. I don’t blame the people of OKC in any way, but Do You Really Want the Blood of the Seattle SuperSonics on Your Hands Forever? Some of you I’m sure are fine with that, but you ned to stop and consider how this is all going to go down. You could be at the center of the Biggest Scandal in Pro Sports ever. The way the team was obtained under false promises (fraud) - the ruse by Clay Bennett and company to give the appearance of a “Good Faith Best Effort” and then the fact that even he got impatient with that and had the arrogance to think that he could pull the plug early on the attempt to get a new arena as long as didn’t make the official announcement until 365 days had passed. His efforts were widely regarded as jokes - the legislature said that they were not lobbied at all before he and David Stern came to testify and ask them for $400 or $500 Million. That is total lunacy. No one would go before a legislature asking for that kind of money without doing a lot of preparation beforehand and lobbying at least the key legislators UNLESS IT WAS AN ACT OF BAD FAITH AND THEY WANTED TO ENSURE THAT IT WOULD FAIL. There is no other possible explanation for 2 intelligent (?) businessmen who run large corporations and have dealt with legislatures before. And guess what? David Stern went with Clay to give it an air of validity. Guess who knew what Clay’s intentions were all along and not only condoned it, but colluded with Clay to help him to pull off the ruse on the people of Seattle, and help Clay to shift the blame to the Washington State legislature instead of PBC LLC for the “Relocation” (read “theft”) of the Seattle Sonics. They have been very successful in shifting most of the blame to the legislature through their Mickey-Mouse efforts.
I want you to consider this: As this thing heats up more (and it will), more and more evidence is going to come out about the conspiracy to steal the Sonics from Seattle and it won’t be pretty. Unless Bennett sells the team now to Seattle owners, this will go to trial and a lot of ugliness will come out and this will become a bigger and bigger scandal for Clay Bennett, PBC LLC, David Stern, the NBA, and Oklahoma, unfortunately. It will get very big. And when the complete truth is known, David Stern will have to stop being so arrogant, because everyone will know what a manipulator and intimidator that he is and how he protects obsequious owners like Clay Bennett.
April 26th, 2008 at 3:32 am
The link to the blog for OK City Sports blog with Mike Sherman is:
http://tinyurl.com/4wzgll
April 26th, 2008 at 3:34 am
I think this naming of the Oklahoma City NBA franchise is quite premature and somewhat in bad taste (although, believe me, we understand your enthusiasm regarding having your own NBA team), given the gaping wounds that have been opened up on the Seattle Citizenry. There is a lot of pain, a lot of hurt, a lot of confusion over how this could happen. How David Stern could let this happen, except that now we’ve found out he has been in on it for quite awhile. This is not the way a Commisioner should act. He has created ill will with a huge market and one that will never forgive and never forget if we lose our Sonics. An expansion team is not an option for us. Almost no one would support it. OKC could get an expansion team IF the NBA expands.
You’ll get to see how creative David Stern can be. If he wants to save any face at all, he will probably have to end this fairly soon and persuade Clay to sell the Sonics. If he does not, he will be deposed and we’ll see if he wants to risk lying under oath or not. Doesn’t the fact that he is fighting being deposed make you a little uncomfortable? It could turn into a criminal case. At the very least, when the truth comes out, David Stern will have to step down or be removed from office. He will go out in shame and infamy. Also once the fraud is proven, Clay Bennett & PBC will also be shamed and prohibited from owning another NBA team. This is what the trial is going to do. Clay Bennett does not want that and David Stern does not want that. You all will have to ask yourselves if that is what you want. If David and Clay are able to stop this before it gets to that point, and sell the Sonics back to a Washington owner, then I’m sure that David will continue to protect Clay and get him another team. But if their arrogance gets in the way, and they think they can win this thing and not be badly tarnished, then watch out because there won’t be a David Stern around anymore and no one else is going to look out for OKC and Clay like he did, so you probably won’t get an NBA team anytime soon.
You need to think about what kind of headlines you want to see. Do you want OKC to be disgraced - the center of a big scandal or do you want to encourage Clay to sell the Sonics back to local Seattle interests and get a new team all your own without a storied 41-year tradition. In Seattle, we’re only known for our “scorched earth” policy when we have been dealt a severe blow and suffered a grave injustice at the hands of another. If we lose OUR SONICS, there are many, many of us who are committed to scorch the earth of the NBA - because ultimately that is where the evil resides. We will do everything in our power to bring down the NBA. We will let everyone know of the rampant corruption there that emanates from the office of David Stern. If we lose the Sonics, there will be many casualties and the “new” NBA franchise in OKC will be forever tainted with scandal and Seattle’s blood. Is that how you really want to be known across the country and even overseas. I believe that you citizens of Oklahoma can do something about this before it is too late.
April 26th, 2008 at 3:35 am
Chime in on the OKCity Sports blog:
http://tinyurl.com/4wzgll
April 26th, 2008 at 3:36 am
If you remain oblivious to what is happening and pretend that you will be getting the Sonics in 2009 or 2010, and continue to endorse Clay Bennett and his methods for obtaining this basketball team, then, please don’t say that I didn’t warn you before the trial started. It’s not going to be pretty.
One last thing, we should never be fighting each other over this. As I said, our emotions are pretty raw in Seattle. Most of us have grown up going to Sonics games and gone with our parents and taken our kids to games and rooted for this team through thick and thin - going deep in the playoffs to having the second worst record in the NBA. When we get emotional, we say a lot of things that we don’t mean. I feel badly about several Sonics fans that have taken out their frustration on Oklahoma in general and its citizens. I know that a lot of it has gone both ways, too. A lot of the derision is because the call to name the new NBA team in OKC rubbed a lot of people the wrong way and it was probably a poor choice of topics at this point, but to each their own.
I don’t want to go through a litany of posts & critique them, but there is one that definitely should never have been written. Putting things in perspective, anger over losing a Basketball team ceases to be meaningful when you throw up the Oklahoma City Bombing in peoples’ faces as the only thing that the rest of the world ever cared enough about to pay any attention to OKC. That was more than uncalled for and in poor taste, it was an abomination - something that no one should ever say about such an unbelievable tragedy and loss of human life that affected many people - it really affected all of us, and may have personally affected some of the readers here. I want to apologize for that comment on behalf of the people of Seattle, because I know that at least 99.9% of us would never condone a comment like that.
We are certainly very frustrated here. We know that there are some people in OKC who do not like the way Clay Bennett & Co. have gone about their business, and how much subsidy that he is asking the legislature for with money that could help needy Oklahomans rather than rich ones, but the aid seemed to pass with flying colors. What we are really asking you here is would you be willing to help us get our team back and get a different team to come play ball in OKC? Most of you won’t be, I know, but if there are one or two people who can see the handwriting on the wall and want to help find a peaceful solution to the problem, then I would love to hear from you and I’m sure the rest of S.O.S. would, too. There are a lot of great people there, most of whom don’t hate Oklahoma or OKC residents and realize that we could be working together for an amicable solution to get both cities their own NBA teams.
- ZenDoc
April 26th, 2008 at 4:49 am
I agree with David M. Brown and well written. I just hope that OKC citizens will take your words and do something about it.
April 26th, 2008 at 7:09 am
if there are posters on this blog that are posting on okc blogs making light of the okc bombing, stop. that is shameful and embarrassing. you make all of us look like absolute scum.
April 26th, 2008 at 7:11 am
I haven’t watched any playoffs either, I have no stomach for it right now.
April 26th, 2008 at 7:20 am
There’s fighting and then there’s hitting below the belt. No bombing comments. This was a terrorist attack and is way too low, no matter how bad we’re in the trenches.
April 26th, 2008 at 7:24 am
Amen… Doc
if only we could converse in more cordial discourse…
some of our words have been just as vile…
and to what end?… do we as fans believe if we berate the other that somehow we will win?… or will the victory be all that sweeter if the struggle was more hard fought?… sports fans and passion… they go hand and hand…
i will say… that when i first started following this site there were a few demeaning statements…but since then i’ve enjoyed nothing but good discussion, good debate, and i witnessed a side of this saga that most Oklahomans havent seen… and thats your story… the story of S.O.S… the people of S.O.S…
Lets find a way… to get your story… the fans side of this… out and known to the world… let it be known that it is not just a few extremist fans causing a stir… but that its group of highly motivated, passionate, and devoted fans just simply fighting their hearts out for that which they have known and love…
If this does indeed get drawn into a two year (or longer) battle of wills… there will be plenty of hate spewed from both sides… for that… i am truly saddened.
April 26th, 2008 at 8:34 am
courtsense Says:
If things keep going in the direction they appear to be heading, Clay Bennett will have to take a bullet to save David Stern and the NBA.
Meaning dropping the request for a cash settlement and playing out the lease? If Stern feels that strongly about testifying, could be. He did say he was willing to bleed with Bennett for two years if that’s what it took.
AK*edit* Says:
You, however, made an astute observation about my disdain for authoritative figures; nonetheless, I don’t wear inane t-shirts that sport rhetoric such “question authority” and other vapid quips. Hell, people who wear that kind of asinine garb look like complete and utter tools—there’s no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
My wife has this “Stop bitching and start a revolution” t-shirt that I detest. I asked her to never wear it around me because I thought it made her look like a lezbo.
April 26th, 2008 at 8:39 am
Just read Stern’s comments this a.m. as I’m always behind you guys.
Whistling in the dark?
April 26th, 2008 at 8:41 am
This goes with what I was trying to propose with my OKC-Seattle alliance: http://thesouthfloridafan.blogspot.com/2008/04/seattle-okc-alliance-proposal.html
Personally, I think it’s worth another shot for three reasons:
1. The tides are clearly turning. As Bennett becomes more and more exposed as a snake, Oklahomas will gravitate towards sympathy.
2. Already, tensions are cooling between OKC and Seattle citizens. I’ve noticed a deeper understanding on various boards.
3. As mentioned above about the bombing, this is YOUR chance to stop diminishing OKC as a city and find a solution.
April 26th, 2008 at 8:43 am
Doc - I think you step out of line to insinuate that name callers are “mostly S.O.S. people.”
We’ve kept it clean. We take great strides to go out and ask people not to use our name when it gets dirty. It’s the internet and we cannot control what people post, that doesn’t make them “our people”
April 26th, 2008 at 8:47 am
The problem we have AD, is that a great deal of your brethren have “Joklahoman” syndrome and are willing to buy into Stern and Bennett. They don’t really want to talk about the facts. That is what saddens me.
April 26th, 2008 at 8:50 am
Btw…I probably owe you guys a big thanks! According to google analytics, The South Florida Fan’s second-best state is Washington and #1 city last week was Seattle. Thanks guys!
April 26th, 2008 at 8:52 am
Any time Adam, thank you for you help. It’s amazing what has taken place…it’s simply amazing how unified and mobilized things got in just a short amount of time.
April 26th, 2008 at 8:58 am
Dick - I see the point you are making about the lawsuit and technically you are right. We both know that isn’t going to happen though for 2 reasons … Bennett would lose whatever leverage he has with the immediate threat to move the team and his relocation request is only good for one year.
Having said that - even if he backs down on that front he still has the Schultz lawsuit to contend with.
AK - typically I just skip over your posts because I can tell your only purpose is to try and get attention which in itself is sad but your comments around midnight about Brian and the site moderators is out of line. Show some respect.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:00 am
I should add to the Bennett leverage comment - he knows if/when (hopefully the latter) we get an arena package put together it’s likely game over for him. His best chance to get this team to OKC is now - the longer this drags out the more time it gives us to get the Key Arena package done. If the Legislature follows through and finances the balance next session he is going to have a much harder time getting his relocation approved next year.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:00 am
I should add to the Bennett leverage comment - he knows if/when (hopefully the latter) we get an arena package put together it’s likely game over for him. His best chance to get this team to OKC is now - the longer this drags out the more time it gives us to get the Key Arena package done. If the Legislature follows through and finances the balance next session he is going to have a much harder time getting his relocation approved next year.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:01 am
Not sure why things are double posting - I only submitted once.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:03 am
I’m not trying to kiss up to Brian, but he’s right on this subject.
I’ve heard a lot of things on this site and supersonicsoul, but nothing that low. Some hatemongers are out there and you can’t stop them from saying stuff on the internet. I do think OKC deserves a team, an expansion one or a failed transitional team with no significant history.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:04 am
Maybe the double-posts are intended to portray Bennett and his two-facedness.
I completely agree, Brett, that the longer things stall, the better. Seattle’s chances probably went up from 25% a month ago to about 60% today.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:04 am
“He is a free agent. Not even the NBA can stop him.
This stuff about lying and cheating is real juvenile. Th name calling is worse. Grow up.”
Hehehehehehe…..but a court of law can. What’s worse is you don’t find any fault with lying and cheating. Stealing an asset that is valued in the hundreds of millions is a big deal.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Steve Kelly was dead on for calling out Gregoire this week.
He states that Rossi will hit a homer if she doesn’t get things done now.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:10 am
DNFTT: Do Not Feed The Troll
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
AK1984 is a troll who has already been famously banned from other Seattle sports blogs. He feeds off that attention. Ignore him or ban him.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:17 am
“I completely agree, Brett, that the longer things stall, the better. Seattle’s chances probably went up from 25% a month ago to about 60% today.”
Progressive Disclosure…it’s a beautiful thing.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:22 am
brett Says:
I should add to the Bennett leverage comment - he knows if/when (hopefully the latter) we get an arena package put together it’s likely game over for him. His best chance to get this team to OKC is now - the longer this drags out the more time it gives us to get the Key Arena package done. If the Legislature follows through and finances the balance next session he is going to have a much harder time getting his relocation approved next year.
Throughout this process with the City/Ballmer group, i’ve never understood this line of thinking. The deal isn’t being offered to Bennett. Even if it was and Bennett declined, why would the other owners expect him to accept a deal that they themselves would likely never accept? Half the costs of a remodel? Would the other owners even be willing to put $150M into a brand new building of their own? Those are the kinds of things they think about when they vote.
Ballmer, the City & Gorton all said at the start that it was a plan to keep the NBA in Seattle (not necessarily this Sonics team).
April 26th, 2008 at 9:24 am
Sonic Scott summed up the options very well (see his post above @
April 26th, 2008 at 12:12 am ).
As Dr Browning notes, the most telling thing is that Stern is fighting against testifying and releasing NBA records. Regardless of whether Bennett is defendent or plaintiff in these cases, he can end this (and save his buddy Stern) only by ending the lawsuits, and he can only effectively end them by agreeing to sell the team locally (technically, the lawsuits would be ended by other means).
I continue to argue that the cost of the Sonics’ relocation plus operating losses over the next 2 years plus damage to Stern and others due to the lawsuits will result in a resale of the team. Bennett will be able to negotiate a better purchase elsewhere, probably NO’s team, which is one puff of a tropical storm away.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:28 am
The only reason that I can see for The Gov stalling and refusing to act on this no-brainer of a $150M gift is this:
SHE is tired, worn out, and WANTS TO LOSE the election!
She cannot come out and say it for fear of losing every supporter or friend she has ever had.
But what other explanation can there be for her actions?
This is her way of entering “temporary retirement”.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:30 am
With all due respect to everyone involved, I can’t understand why Sonics fans from Seattle would even bother to engage in any discussion - civil, argumentative, or otherwise - with fans from OKC. It just seems like a monumental waste of time.
I couldn’t care less what they think about Bennett, or the PBC, or the Sonics, or the NBA, or the city of Seattle, or us as fans.
Their opinions are completely irrelevant to anything we may think, feel, say, or do. And vice versa. The Sonics will either stay in Seattle or they will go to OKC. The rest is just details.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:30 am
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/index
Where will the Supersonics be playing next year?
58% say Oklahoma. This is how much the Nation knows or cares about us.
Check it out.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:31 am
The poll is on the bottom of the page.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:33 am
“Ballmer, the City & Gorton all said at the start that it was a plan to keep the NBA in Seattle (not necessarily this Sonics team).”
Progressive Disclosure is showing otherwise. You also have to remember that the Schultz case changes everything. There will be no settlement. Even if the all of the above wanted to settle, it would do no good until the Schultz suit was over. This is not about an expansion franchise anymore, it’s about THESE Sonics.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:33 am
Dick - the argument relies on one thing … money, and that is what motivates all these guys. The Sonics in Seattle in a remodeled Key are going to be far more profitable than in OKC. Did you see how far they had to go to slice and dice the data to make OKC look better than Seattle (in it’s current state I might add). Get to next year and another relocation vote and if Seattle is a far superior market to OKC with a financed arena package on the table and I don’t think they vote to approve the move to OKC again.
As far as Ballmer putting money into the arena. There are buildings in the NBA that have competely been done with private money so I don’t see the ownership group engaging in a public/private partnership to get a deal done being a big deal.
Also, when did anybody but Gorton recently state it was about keeping the NBA in Seattle and not the current team? Ballmer hasn’t made any sort of public statements, the City is saying they want to keep this team in Seattle, and IMO the Gorton comment was calculated. The only ones advocating some sort of team are County officials, and at this point their opinions don’t mean much since they don’t currently have a dog in the hunt.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:36 am
By the way, I join AK1984 in hoping these websites can someday return to analyzing basketball and not this political bull.
Let’s refrain from personal attacks, saving that energy for our real enemies (the current owners, the NBA governors, lousy referees and our own local sappy politicians). In other words, public figures are fair game, but we shouldn’t be attacking each other on a personal level. Also, we should not paint OKC citizens with a broad brush. Last I checked, they are Americans, just like most of us, who are just as eager to have a pro team to root for. Heck, I have much greater disdain for Republicans than for Oklahomans.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:38 am
The NBA should just award Oklahoma City with an Expansion team
April 26th, 2008 at 9:39 am
The rest of the country could easily be informed if ESPN would do their job and report on this story, you know give it some airtime instead of vague AP stories they use. We really are part of the former Soviet Union up here, I guess. When Josh Howard “Breaks” the news that NBA players smoke pot in the offseason and ESPN is all over it, makes you wonder what kind of monkeys are making the decisions at “the sports leader.” I suppose Steven Jackson is going to come out next and say NBA players carry weapons in their cars, oh my god, really?
April 26th, 2008 at 9:40 am
I don’t think expansion is on the table at all and the NBA hasn’t shown any interest in it. See Clay’s own emails on that one. I think that is what partially motivated Gorton’s comments … get that option out in the open and force the NBA to make a call.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:43 am
Brett, private money yes, ownership money no. The owners don’t want to lose the leverage when it comes time to have others pay for their future palaces.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:44 am
Does anyone know of a better sports site than ESPN.com and SI.com. I am really sick of them both, except for SI’s constant images of hot women in body paint. Someone please direct me to a good alternative, if there is one.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Exactly Brett. Let’s not forget that this had nothing to do with Stern. Even if Stern wanted it, the owners of this league don’t. If you even tried to get a vote on expansion it would be 30-0 against.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:47 am
Charlotte fired another Head Coach. Hey Micheal, why don’t you give it a shot, what’s the worst that could happen? (See Isiah Thomas)
April 26th, 2008 at 9:48 am
WTF is it with the “MD” tag David Brown?
While I very much appreciate reading the lawyers who contribute to this blog because their professional training has something (everything) to do with the issue at hand . . . I find the fact that someone needs to announce that he has an “MD” degree a bit off putting.
Do you not think that your comments/perspective can stand on their own?
If you insist on writing under the “David M. Brown, MD” tag . . . please confine your posts to the status of Robert Swift’s knee etc. Otherwise, “David M. Brown” sounds more like a poster who presents himself as a voice that is not in need of some form of external validation.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:52 am
Monday is huge! Think about it. The NBA could be forced for the first time to reveal all of this info they consider to be highly confidential. They no doubt have a treasure trove of emails, analysis on relocation, analysis on the impact of the CBA and financial records that have never seen the light of day. Plus Stern will be compelled to give a deposition. We can only dream about how the NBA discovery might affect our lawsuits.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:52 am
if the NHL relocated a franchise out of Canada, say for instance the Vancouver Canucks…NHL Commisioner Gary Bettman would lose his job. That team has been in Vancouver since 1970(38 years now). What im trying to say is it is just not right to move a team like the Sonics out of Seattle. 41+ years of memories and they just allow this to happen? David Stern should lose his job if this occurs…absolutely disgusting on the NBA’s part!!! I’m done with the NBA if this move does occur. I hate the headline on this article: “Stern still OK with Sonics move”
http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/2008/04/25/Stern-SuperSonics-0/
April 26th, 2008 at 9:56 am
Dick - most arenas are built with some money coming from ownership. Ballmer stepped up and offered more than most but the gesture itself is far from unprecedented. I doubt other owners would vote for relocation simply because Ballmer’s group is offering to pay for half the building in light of all the benefits of having the team in Seattle vs. OKC in a brand new arena. We’ll have to agree to disagree on that one.
April 26th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Honestly Brett, I don’t think that the owners care. Also, they won’t do anything unless they feel that he isn’t solid on remaining a part of their brotherhood. If the court case is still going at the time of the next “re-lo” vote and Clay is getting hammered….you might see a favorable verdict from the owners. Other than that we need the law on our side, our best bet is to pull the trigger on this “doubel barrel shotgun” we have in the court cases of Schultz and the City.
April 26th, 2008 at 10:09 am
The owners won’t do anything. Josh is right.
One thing I’ve begun to think…at some point, Stern might betray Bennett. If some really damaging e-mails circulate, that could happen.
April 26th, 2008 at 10:13 am
We also have to see if the NBA throws Clay to the wolves, or if David is going to stick by his guy.
If Stern stays by Clay, then NBA dirty laundry is gonna come flying out of the closet at warp speed. Not to mention Stern will get deposed and being left to a full on assault from Slade’s crew.
If Stern leaves Clay high and dry as it looks in the NBA Brief, then he is a gonner, but the NBA stays high and dry.
April 26th, 2008 at 10:13 am
“WTF is it with the “MD” tag David Brown?
While I very much appreciate reading the lawyers who contribute to this blog because their professional training has something (everything) to do with the issue at hand . . . I find the fact that someone needs to announce that he has an “MD” degree a bit off putting.
Do you not think that your comments/perspective can stand on their own?
If you insist on writing under the “David M. Brown, MD” tag . . . please confine your posts to the status of Robert Swift’s knee etc. Otherwise, “David M. Brown” sounds more like a poster who presents himself as a voice that is not in need of some form of external validation. ”
HAHA…great stuff. It’s like when doctors put MD on their checks. Who really gives a shizz. We are SOOO proud of you David M. Brown, MD.
April 26th, 2008 at 10:20 am
Even if the Judge does not order Stern to be deposed in the City’s lawsuit, Stern certainly would have to be deposed for Shcultz’s lawsuit, as it was Stern who introduced Bennett to Schultz and effectively brokered the deal. Stern’s role in any potential fraud would be an important aspect of Schultz’s case.
Either way, Stern will be testifying under oath.
Dick, when I said I believe Bennett may have to take a bullet to save Stern and the NBA, I wasn’t referring to the City’s lawsuit. I was referring to Schultz’s lawsuit and the possible injunction. If Howard gets the injunction in the next 60 days or so, and the status of the franchise is “frozen” until the lawsuit can play itself out, that’s when I think Bennett bails out and sells the team to save Stern and the NBA from any more litigation problems.
April 26th, 2008 at 10:21 am
I just don’t get it. IF Stern sticks by Clay through this case the NBA’s dirty laundry is coming out. Which means a lof people not associated with this case are going to get dragged through the mud(i.e. crooked owners and the like). Stern is risking his position as commish because of his ego.
The brief is saying one Adam, but Stern keeps doing the opposite. I don’t get it. It doesn’t make any sense. Is Stern really willing to lose his job and his reputation for Clay?
April 26th, 2008 at 10:27 am
guys, I’m a little behind the times and the thread is very long. What is going down on MOnday?
Thanks
April 26th, 2008 at 10:30 am
All owners have two priorities.
1) Standing in front of TV cameras as the commish of basketball hands them a trophy and being able to pump a fist in the air and say: “This is for the fans of ________ .” [city to be filled in].
2) Watch the value of their franchise appreciate.
Nothing about this situation has to do with priority #1. Everything about this situation has to do with priority #2.
Therefore, a simple rule to consider in anticipating what the owners will do is to think like they think.
For any possible situation, they will ask, how does this effect the $$$ that a billionaire who does not yet own a team will pay me for my team?
All other priorities . . . (appearance of barganing in good faith, ethics, PR, fan support, market size, government arena funding, . . . even — to some extent revenues) are all merely instrumental priorities . . . they care about these things only to the extent that they percieve these things effect the $$$ that a billionaire who does not yet own a team will pay for one.
The owners prefer the team moving to OKC because they see franchise mobility as increasing the value of their own franchise.
What I love about the current situation is that the trouble in court cannot be good PR — not to fans, but to other potential franchise bandits. What billionaire looks to the Seattle situation and then thinks I’d like to offer up big $$$ to Heisley so I can break a lease in Memphis?
What is happenning in Seattle has to be hurting Heisley (and Shinn).
If the Seattle situation prevents the next owner from being able to sell and get the price he expects, that is the day that Stern’s head will roll!!!!
April 26th, 2008 at 10:30 am
The courts decide if Stern get’s “Depoed”.
April 26th, 2008 at 10:35 am
if stern sticks buy clay too long in public it may be one of two things to me: 1. Stern is getting all the propaganda out he can before he has to state under penalty of law the truth that might be different from the facts; 2. Stern is part of Bennett’s plan and he is showing owners that he would stick by them if they were having trouble screwing some other city.
Maybe both. He can delay admitting that he has read emails and such, but I imagine that at deposition the emails will be there for him to read or read to him so he can be asked if he had similar communications with him.
At that point the facts begin to bind them together, or separate them. After deposition he can not say in public contridictions. Testimony may end up private but the nature of the answers do not have to be.
He can not then say that he has not read whatever emails are presented to him at his deposition.
Since Howard’s case goes back to the purchase and intent I do not know how the “NBA official” can avoid a deposition then.
Sooner or later, he will be on record forever. The different things he says at different times to different people works as long as he can exist without testimony. The private will become public, does he want to testify before Congress? I do not think so.
April 26th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Do we think, by the way that in a side letter to Schultz, the standard for “good faith effort” is interpreted by standard that a reasonable person would think of as a “good faith effort”.
Or will the court say that Bennett is entitled to (and therefore the court will) interpret the standard of “good faith effort” as the amount of effort that Schultz has established by precident.
After all the letter was an agreement between two groups and perhaps neither one of them share the standard of “effort” that a reasonable person might have.
April 26th, 2008 at 10:39 am
Did you guys read how far Clay and his PR team had to go to slice and dice the data to show OKC as a superior market to Seattle (with the current lease and Key config)? Even with all this and reports that the meeting dragged on longer than expected (writers speculated there was some intense debate over the approval) I don’t see these guys approving another relo if we get an arena deal in place (just like they wouldn’t have approved it last time if we would have gotten our financing lined up). In a rev share league, they are just costing themselves money allowing a move to an inferior market (again, assuming a remodeled Key).
I am trying to find a link because I remember reading it and they had to slice the data 3 different ways and then trim a bit here and cut some there to show OKC as a better market.
I still think these guys are motivated by one thing … money and with the league sharing revenues the better market wins. What was true before the current relocation vote will be true again next year and the citys lawsuit will buy us the time we need. Shultz’s suit is just the icing on the cake.
April 26th, 2008 at 10:46 am
I went back and looked at Jeff Green’s college stats.
draftexpress.com/profile/Jeff-Green-368/stats/
There was very little improvement from freshman to junior year. He recovered from a sophmore shooting slump but otherwise he was basically the same player. That is a different level though it does not give me a lot of confidence that he will steadily or significantly improve in a much tougher environment but we’ll see.
April 26th, 2008 at 10:53 am
No offense, But not only did sheridan did the name the new franchise bit (pre-mature), he also took a jab at us for losing Safeco. So in my opinion he deserves all the negative posts he is getting.
April 26th, 2008 at 10:54 am
dick, whoever, if Benntt drops his side of the case it does not just go away. Clay is saying that there is a number that he has offered and that is enough. If he drops his side the city can show that he intended to move, wants to move, and may just move in the middle of the night and force a judge to pick a dollar figure, the city, it can be argued, should have the court decide the case and force the team to stay under judge’s order. The case, as filed, keeps going.
The city shares revenue, they should go all the way and show that he intended to harm attendance and drive down the value of the seats to be sold, this would feed into Howard’s damages to the asset claim if he won his case.
He has the relocation ok from the league, if he could drop the case he would.
Thanks for renting Clay.
April 26th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Let me make it clear, that I disagree with those seattle fans that have used tragedies in a joking manner (Bombing, tornadoes etc).
But other friendly jabs are okay.
April 26th, 2008 at 11:00 am
Brett:
“I still think these guys are motivated by one thing … money and with the league sharing revenues the better market wins. What was true before the current relocation vote will be true again next year and the citys lawsuit will buy us the time we need. Shultz’s suit is just the icing on the cake. ”
Look at Schultz’s situation as an example. Year to year he lost some money (so, he claims). But when he sold the team, the appreciation of the frachise more than compensated for that loss.
I’m just not convinced that the owners care so much about the year-to-year revenue. I think they care about how much they get when it is time to sell. They like Bennett moving because it demonstrates to future owners that the franchises are mobile so their markets are expanded. I think they look at the differences in revenue that they bring in as marginal (expecially when compared to the other issue).
Therefore, I just don’t think they care about Bennett’s slicing and dicing of data.
April 26th, 2008 at 11:03 am
I think we need to really appreciate what Mark Cuban did voting against reloacation. He had an interview in GQ a couple of months back and made a statement something to the effect that he has begun to understand that is a caretaker of a public trust rather than an owner who can do whatever he wants with his toy.
I think this attitude was very apparent when he called us all out to show passion rather than legal startegies. I think we showed him that passion and he rewarded that with his vote. Maybe more owners will begin to feel this way although I am not real optimistic.
We still need the legal startegy.
April 26th, 2008 at 11:22 am
a statement something to the effect that he has begun to understand that is a caretaker of a public trust
Those words might mean something if Schultz hadn’t have said the same thing when he bought the team. It’s amazing how quickly an owner can change their tune to whatever suits their current needs.
April 26th, 2008 at 11:38 am
D_G - I see your point but I think you are overlooking how leveraged some (not all) of these guys are when owning these teams. Cash flow is essential to them for their day to day and year over year operations. No one likes to make cash calls to investors and the small and mid market teams are real proponents of rev. sharing.
April 26th, 2008 at 11:51 am
Something that I’ve noted but have not seen discussed here . . .
One of the reasons that the Key is a bad in terms of generating revenues for owners is that owners do not get $$$ from parking.
This seems to create an interesting incentive system. The NBA needs cities to build stadiums that encourage people to drive. If owners get a cut of parking they would seemingly prefer to have a stadium with poor public transportation.
April 26th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Okay Dick, but at least Cuban stepped out and put his vote where his mouth is in spite of the fact he knew it would do no real good at 28-2. He risked pissing off Stern (which I’m sure he did) right when the Mavs were going into the playoffs against David’s Darlings the Charlotte/New Orleans/Baton Rouge/Oklahoma Village Hornets. I really believe Cuban needs to be commended.
April 26th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Free. I think it is Cubans job to piss off Stern. I am sure he welcomes the opportunity.
April 26th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Hey I’ve been fooled before, but I think Cuban’s support of the Seattle fans is sincere. of course he also believes going from the 12th market to the 45th is a bad move, but no one else has the balls to say the emperor has no clothes (or brains).
April 26th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
No one that is except Paul Allen.
April 26th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Does anyone know what time the hearing is on monday and how soon after its over we will find out the results?
April 26th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
first, some cya of my own, as an outer circle person I do not know what the SOS people have sent, know that is not public, or any relationship to any of the parties in any of the cases. The views expressed by me are mine alone. Much is speculated about based on alleged motives, and facts published in the media, that media includes this site. Very little of the information has been in a trial yet, everyone is innocent until proven guilty, including David Stern and Clay Bennett. There are few facts, none refuted with other facts, just after the fact excuses and claims. For example; Bennett did send an email to David Stern that rivaled the communication Harriet Meyers sent to George Bush. In both cases it is amusing to make “fun” of the communication, to allege that there is a physical relationship for the motivating factor. But let us be clear, it is satire, it is speculative, and nobody is serious in their assertions. In the case of Stern and Bennett, Bennett and stern (which ever one would be stated first in the wedding invitations, should they take up residence together in a state that has legal same gender weddings, not that there is anything wrong with it) we have emails and their stated public claims the appear to contridict the content of the emails individually, or collectively. I see the broken logic as frustrating as the next person. So, when I call Bennett and Stern fuckers, I am not alleging that they are participating in a relationship outside of their respective marrages. It is an expression of my frustration with the logic that appears to be so unbelievably broken that is has crossed the boarder between reality and absurdinty.
IF Bennett sent an email that sounded like some kind of love letter, then maybe they are in love.
April 26th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
I just got online today after a very late night last night and running errands today, so I’m responding to some earlier stuff today starting about 8:30 AM:
Brian,
If you feel that my comment about “most” of the negative posters on the OKC Sports Blog being SOS people was out of line, then I apologize. On the one hand, you are probably right, I don’t really know that to be a fact. What I do know is that most of the posters over there have the same names as they have here and they post on SonicsCentral.com a lot. I don’t want to name names, but you can see for yourself. A lot of the “negative” comments were just teasing and suggesting new names for “their NBA team”, but some were more prejudiced and hurtful and I don’t think that the inappropriate comment about the OKC bombing was from a regular poster here, at least not one that I recognized. And just because they post here a lot doesn’t mean that they’re SOS members, I guess, but the comments are all about saving the Sonics.
That brings up a question: is there an official membership application for SOS and/or is there dues or is it just voluntary contributions? Thanks Brian. - David Brown
April 26th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Really?
We are fighting the minions of hell to keep our team and we’re going to attack a fellow soldier because he puts his profesional name on his posts?
Seriously?
Seeing MD means nothing to me other than the dude probably busted nuts for years making something out of himself while I was in my basement stacking Cheez-Its in an attempt to hit the ceiling.
I for one don’t see MD and think to myself, ’self, you have some intersting takes on things today but don’t bother posting because the MD is smarter’.
Besides, I doubt he uses it to show off. I think many professional types use it all day at work and it just becomes habit.
So, Doc MD, how high can YOU stack Cheez-Its???
April 26th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
I agree, friendly jabs are totally acceptable.
I’ve givin’ my fair share.
April 26th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
To “D_G” and “bigsmooth”,
I’m sorry if I offended you by putting my name in as “David M. Brown, MD”. I haven’t been posting here for that long and when I first posted here, they asked for my name (required), so I wrote it like I usually write it, which is “David M. Brown, MD”. I did not realize that I could have just put in a screen name there, and I also did not realize that I could change my name on subsequent posts. When I saw how my post came out with the “MD” and no screen name, I wasn’t real comfortable with it, but I accepted it. When you guys complained, I looked at it closer and realized that I could just change my name to a screenname, so I’m switching to “ZenDoc”, which I’ve posted under for a couple years on the Sonics site and the Storm site and occasionally TNT or the Times. I can understand why it’s off-putting to you. - DMB
April 26th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
Can someone explain to me about the “moderation”? I know some comments get posted immediately while others go into moderation. I think I know what triggers some of those posts to be moderated, but I’m unclear about others. Also, who does the moderation and is there always a moderator looking at the board or not? I assume that Brian and Steve Pyeatt are moderators and I’m not sure who else. Is this public information or not? Also, sometimes comments get moderated quickly and are posted in a few minutes, while others have sat for a couple hours, and I had one comment that NEVER posted from 3 days ago, I believe, even though I reposted it 4 times. I really don’t know what was wrong with that post and I was never told. Don’t I have a right to know why it was never posted? Could someone from the core group fill me in. I’m posting under “ZenDoc” now, which has been a screenname of mine for 3 years because some people were offended by my posting as “D.M. Brown, MD”. I didn’t really like posting my name anyway.
April 26th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
there are 3000 or so words and phrases that get filtered into moderation, otherwise everyother post would involve one of your body parts, and trying to sell something. Just type the word c a s i n o and see it vanish into moderation.
you may not know that you had by accident used a combination of words that are common in most email that fills a hotmail account.
So I have been told.
April 26th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
I do not think Steve Pyeatt has admin rights here. The Steve that writes stories here is a different guy also named Steve.
Scott, Big Chris, Brian, Steve, Griff, I am not sure.
I have a write account and post new threads to “help” the site.
April 26th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
Doc,
As one of your “moderators” I will do my best to explain. We get literally thousands of spam messages a day. That doesn’t count the ones that are bombed without our seeing them as admins because they were on the black list.
I’m the primary keeper of the filters, so I’m often the one responsible for your post(s) landing in moderation (AK notwithstanding). In reading your post, nothing jumps out as a trigger word, but realize there are now something like 3000+ words that cause moderation, and another 2000 or so that are black listed. Many of these are portions of web addresses, but some are single words. Others are phrases. It’s a constant battle, and I try to be very careful when adding words. Indeed I’ve had to take words out when I discovered another word that contained that word that was common use that I missed (thereby landing lots of posts in moderation). I can’t remember a specific example, but it’s happened once or twice, and was easy to fix.
As to why your post landed in moderation, I don’t specifically know. You might have posted too quickly in succession. You might have hit a filter word. Our server or data base just might not like you (this is beginning to be my theory on my problems).
We all land in moderation. Myself included. I’ve posted completely innocuous things and found myself having to move my own post out of moderation.
Basically, at the end of day, it’s the price we have to pay to not be overrun with spam.
As a note, any post with more than 2 links in it is automatically in moderation. Post with sex references, coarse language, reference to drugs (both OTC and illicit), many banking terms, insurance, financial, auto, gaming, and travel industry terms have been filtered because of the long term persistent spam attempts in these categories. After having typed all of that, it’s likely I’ll be rescuing this post out of moderation.
And the world turns.
Big Chris
April 26th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Mr. Baker,
We probably should move your level back up a bit too, as we just moved you to the bottom rung when you “moved out” for a while. I don’t see any reason not to give you a bit more power
Big Chris
April 26th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
Big Chris & Mr. Baker,
Thanks for your responses about comments in moderation. That definitely helps me to understand the moderation process. I didn’t know it was so far-reaching, but I understand the constant Spam threat. I still don’t know why my last part of my 3-part (or was it 4?) post from 2 or 3 days ago never got posted. I kept checking back, but it wasn’t there, which was too bad because it was the conclusion of my comments at that time.
Also to Laporbo, thank you for your comment. I appreciate your support on the signature issue. Most of the people here are great people from what I read and from whom I’ve met personally and spoken with - about 7 or 8 of you or maybe 10 total, but I don’t know screennames AND real names for very many people - I think 4. It’s always nice to put a face with a name with a screenname. I guess we’ll get another chance to do that next Saturday at our SOS meeting.
April 26th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
If your comment doesn’t post, and you don’t see a “Your comment is awaiting moderation” note, that means your post got bombed by hitting a black list item. When I posted my response earlier to you, I had it get bombed 3 times before I switched a g a mbling reference to “gaming”. Obviously the spaces in that word are to avoid the kill file.
When that happens (at least with Firefox as your browser) all you have to do is back up a page and modify your comment until it passes through. Works like a charm, even for us moderators!
Big Chris
April 26th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
BTW, don’t back up and modify if it says you are in moderation. Then you’ll have two or three posts of the same thing.
Big Chris
April 26th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
I did not realize that I could have just put in a screen name there
Hey, I didn’t either. Maybe i’ll have to come up up the a screen name as well.
April 26th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
Thanks Big Chris,
That was also helpful. In this case I should have backed up and modified the comment then resubmitted. I kept trying to repost it without changing it, but it was always like I had never submitted anything. It did not say your post is awaiting moderation, like several others have before. I finally gave up.
April 26th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
Dick,
Good, I’m not the only one who was ignorant on this. Let me warn you, though, after I changed my handle to my screenname instead of my real name, my first 3 posts were held in moderation, probably because I wasn’t recognized with my new name. Now they are going through just fine. On your first post, you might want to use both names so people know who you are.
April 26th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
On second thought, maybe I should stick with my current name. After all, my dad Larry looks forward to reading my posts with my name since he named me after his best friend Dick York. Or maybe was it Dick Sargent? I forget.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
I was concerned that there may have come a time where what I was able to know could land me in court, that maybe Danny Fortson might be offended and sue, not because he would have a case, but because Brian and others had some contact with him and he did sue the Suns for calling him names.
The Internet affords little of the upside that print media enjoys, and ALL of the dowside, with even fewer protections.
It was risk mitigation for me, when I am done with my current career I plan to do something with the degree in Communication I will have at the end of next school year.
Having non-professionals in professional journalistic situations experimenting with decades of journalistic law while writing in this new medium looked like it could be a minor problem if something went wrong, and that is ok for everybody else that writes here, they would just wash their hand of a minor problem, I have a few years of college that I thought it would be prudent if I isolated my minor personal risk from the situation here and the inner circle conversations. The opportunity for trouble has since passed, the factors are no longer in play.
When Brian, or somebody, said a few months ago that Brian was not able to write I sent Brian an email and asked him if he wanted some help with the site, the stories in-between games were fewer and fewer, and I thought it would be important that the site had active conversation around the team staying.
I am here to help, when I do not need to help I will stop helping.
This all sound paranoid, taking a mass media law class while this is all starting will do that to you.
April 26th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
If Danny Fortson is reading this, now that he knows you’re Stewie he might decide to still come after you.
April 26th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
what about danny fortson tells you that he wouldn’t.
What about the current owners?
This is entertainment business involving hundreds of millions of dollars. People are sensitive when it comes to their wallets.
The IF THEN story by Brian skates around some thin ice. There isn’t anything they can do about anything he has written.
May 15th, 2008 at 8:00 am
b767f6d0f7ac
b767f6d0f7ac82416dc2
July 23rd, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Cheap holiday airfare.
Cheap airfare.
August 10th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
Free xxx.
Free xxx.