“it will be a bloodbath in that courtroom”
Posted on Monday, June 2nd, 2008 at 10:40 pm by Mr. Baker (thinking good thoughts for George Karl))
Greg Johns, of the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, has some entertaining quotes from a lawyer not involved with the City of Seattle vs. Profession Basketball’s court case. Nothing new, or nothing that you haven’t been warned about by regular writers and posters on SonicsCentral.com, “it will be a bloodbath in that courtroom” - Longtime Seattle attorney Randy Aliment
He says this:
Aliment said both sides have hired the best trial lawyers in Seattle and he expects a no-holds-barred situation should the case proceed as scheduled.
“You’ve definitely got a three-ring circus going now,” Aliment said. “From a straight legal standpoint, this thing is just about unprecedented. I’m thinking one of the only other comparable situations was when Al Davis and the Oakland Raiders filed suit and things got stupid down there. That one actually went to trial.”
And he says that:
Is there room to settle?
“From the city’s standpoint, forced occupation here is going to be a difficult proposition because the team would only be here two years, the NBA is going to be upset and the prospects for a team long-term are problematic,” Aliment said. “Some type of mediated solution where Bennett can take his toys back to Oklahoma and the city gets a different team, or Bennett gets a new team and we keep our Sonics, would obviously be the best.
“But it’s going to take participation by the NBA and other owners to approve something like that,” he said. “That’s a tall order, as evidenced by the fact it hasn’t been done yet.”
But this isn’t anything like what’s really going to happen. The Al Davis trial happened in 1982, pre-ESPN ruling the world, pre-internet, pre-hyper news cycles.
David Stern has a “three-ring circus going”, only, he isn’t the lion tamer, or ring master, but by choice as the circus clown.
Read the rest of A Sonics trial may get ugly — expert. NBA should push for fast settlement, veteran lawyer says by Greg Johns of the Seattle PI.
June 2nd, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Great stuff Baker… thanks for sharing.
Buenas noches.
-Speed
June 2nd, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Brian and / or Steve…
Any insight as to whether or not you see this thing going to trial? We’re within 2 weeks, and it feels like both sides are barreling toward each other like they’re playing a full fledged game of chicken. With the emails that have been revealed, does the city still have leverage to negotiate? I guess my biggest question is, do we have a better chance of keeping the team if this goes to trial, or if some kind of settlement is reached pre-trial?
If you can’t comment on this due to the proximity of the trial, I understand, but I’d love to know whether our chances are improving or diminishing with each passing day. Throw me a smokescreen if you have to. Anything…
June 2nd, 2008 at 11:03 pm
“If the sides are negotiating, they’re doing so quietly, which would be expected at this juncture. Most cases come down to last-minute settlements and it’s possible for an agreement to be made even during or after a trial. The questions are: Who has the most leverage and are both sides willing to give?”
I guess I should have read the article before asking questions that are obviously still unanswered…
June 2nd, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Good article, but in the article they keep saying that going to trial is a lose/lose situation for both sides- but the only reason they give is that it’d be a black eye for th NBA if it goes to trial.
I don’t see what the city has to lose by going to trial.
June 2nd, 2008 at 11:08 pm
that is an accurate reading of the story and situation K-man
To the question above, it has gotten better for the Seattle fans with each passing day.
June 2nd, 2008 at 11:25 pm
I think it fair to report that there is a concensus that the pressure to settle, and by that I mean for something other than monetary concessions, has grown a substantially in the last 2 weeks. I think that there has been a steady realization by the league that the city will not settle. As recently as last month a large percentage of the people I spoke to felt it was simply a matter of time until a magic number was reached. Now, just about everyone in the media and people associated with the league from employees here to agents to players all feel that city is going to hold their ground.
It is a big change in perception that I hope will be a catalyst for something to get done. “scorched earth” is not very effective if nobody thinks you’re willing to light the fire. Now that the Mayor has shown his resolve we have to see if the NBA is really willing to go the distance for 2 years.
My honest feeling is that this does not go to court and I think that means good news for us. I have been stunned by the leagues willingness to get ugly and think that this article is a very good one, representative of the real situation and why there is a need for someone to broker a solution.
At the end of the day Clay Bennett is independant and is going to look out for his interests and his pocketbook. The city has an obligation to its taxpayers. The body that has a fiduciary and moral obligation to maintain the wellbeing of the league as a whole is Commissioner Stern. It is for this reason that he should be the one to set aside pride and broker a deal.
June 2nd, 2008 at 11:35 pm
I am among many that is shocked this has gone this far. I also hope that the city of Seattle and Schultz take this to the end. If they take Durant and Green from me I really don’t think I’m going to root for the new Sonics for a very long time, if ever.
I haven’t watched more then a few minutes of the NBA playoffs this year in protest, and that was just because I was over at somebody’s house. I’m really not happy with how the NBA is doing business.
If the NBA lets this team go to OKC I want to see more then scortched earth, I want to see the whole NBA in flames.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:03 am
I think this goes to trial, the city wins. The Schultz case starts to take form about a week later. Between the end of the city case and the start of the Schultz case, Bennett and stern recognize 63 million in loses over two years as a reality and not just tough talk.
Stern identifies a third team for Bennett to release some burdened tiny city from. Switch aroo, Schultz has a hot potato, Bennett gets some other mess and his managemnt team.
The state approves 82 million in funding for Key Arena and new mid-town pee patch/trolley stop. Ballmer buys the team.
I drink a beer and eat a stake, whoopty-freakin do!
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:03 am
It’s a good article, except that Johns keeps peddling the myth that the Sonics can just leave after 2010 if they have to without re-applying for relocation. Of course, it has long since been confirmed both here and by Percy that this is false.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:05 am
steak, I have already had the beer.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:09 am
brent b, the schultz case could push this out past 2010, in theory.
I think this is over by July 15.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:26 am
http://youtube.com/user/SeattleWeekly
I think this will go all the way!! Congress baby!!
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:27 am
I have no insight besides whatever I read on this board, but I really believe this will go through trial. Seattle wont and shouldnt budge, and Bennett and Stern are too stubborn enough to settle something we will accept. It has already gotten this bad, the league will just let it play out, no matter how bad they look. Very bad move on the league’s part.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:29 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9jXKdls7ns&feature=related
clay is the JUNK!!!
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:31 am
OT but awhile back I mentioned the Squatch song by Chris Ballew of the Presidents.
I think Speedcat asked about hearing it. Just ran across this tonight…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVV3tNWEI7A
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:41 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUt8oNd7toE&NR=1
lol had to follow up with this one
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:47 am
Absolutely Baker, I’m just saying that even if you discount the Schultz case Bennett would still have to re-apply for relocation next year.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:53 am
I don’t mind getting ugly. I’m a results man!
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:19 am
I’ve been taking an online course this week at work. One of the things they’ve talked about over and over is that Perception is Reality.
I agree with BR. If there is the Perception that The City will let this go all the way to trial the Reality of settling before June 16th or even after one side has presented their case is strong.
I also think that Stern doesn’t want the Perception of him as being “The Smartest Guy in the Room” to be tarnished. No matter how much vitriol we have for him that Perception is out there en masse and actually could be one of our strongest assests in the long run.
So anybody watch The Stanley Cup last night? How about The Penguin Calling his shot on National TV and then delivering. Good Match.
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:43 am
You guys selfishly miss the real point of the PI story….this guy is advocating a settlement!!
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:12 am
Stone I agree with you.if they take this team I won’t be supporting whatever new team we may get for a very long time if ever. There is no acceptable settlement unless it is Clay getting a new team and leaving ours here.
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:12 am
that guy’s point isn’t any more valid than any I have read here. He has an opinion, we appear to be giving our own individual opinions.
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:24 am
Selfishly I want it to go to court because im looking forward to a SOS rally on june 16.
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:01 am
oh yes, shocked, that I am not. Stern and Bennett will stick to their story until the Judge indicates that their story is at risk of failing in the next court case with her, then they scramble while the city case is settled in court.
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:01 am
AOL Fanhouse has mentioned the article.
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:10 am
GOD I hope all these media types are wrong and we don’t settle before the trial. We need to take this to trial, i.e. Rick Neuheisel. We have all the leverage and nothing to lose.
We already have an owner on record as saying David Stern talked about having a team in the Seattle market. All of this hardball talk is BS. If we did lose this team to OKC the NBA would be back as soon as we had an arena. I’m not worried in the slightest about never having an NBA team again. I am worried that the fans would be disenfranchised and not support a new team. I know I wouldn’t. It would take players of the caliber of Kemp and Payton to get me to consider following an expansion team.
I don’t want to see us settle. I will be extremely pissed unless it includes this Sonic team of Durant and Green. I can’t say that enough.
Seattle should be a 4 sport major league team, not a 2 team major league team. Someone should take initiative and build an arena that can support the NHL. This city would go crazy for the NHL. If Dallas can support an NFL team can you imagine what we would do? I’m from Alaska and I know a lot of people in Seattle are from places farther north. This place would just go nuts if only from the people that have moved here from the Great White North. (not a racist description, I think it has it’s origins from some 80’s song)
My perfect scenario would be that this would get a multi-purpose arena built and we keep this Sonics team. Just last year the city of Seattle had a big multi city tour of Seattle and most of the visitors loved Seattle but the number one complaint is that we didn’t have the convention space to hold a National event. People in city government have to remember this. Could someone get someone from the convention/tourism department to chime in?
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:23 am
For me there’s a difference between “Settling” and “Selling Out”
I have no problem with the city and shultz listening to any talk from Bennett and Stern that nets Seattle a team with no interruption in play.
I suspect that the Bennett is going to go through with the trial and roll the dice to see if he wins. In the off chance that he does win, then he would have to feel pretty confident going into the shultz case. He would likely see hanging onto the team as the path of least resistance.
If Bennett loses the lease case, he will likely see the writing on the wall and start working with Stern for a resolution. The path of least resistance would be settlement in some fashion.
Either way, the key is the lease case. I don’t see the motivation for Bennett/NBA to settle before the case. Either they settle now, win the trial and move, or lose the trial and settle later. Bennett doesn’t have much to gain by settling now.
-=cysco
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:36 am
In any negotiated settlement wouldn’t a potential buyer need a facility that would sustain some possibility of breaking even year to year. I agree with Brian that more than likely a settlement is in the works with the Balmer/Senegal group being owners of a team in Seattle. That being said have our elected officials respected the request of the concerned citizens and business people. Has anyone moved to gain clarity on “The ARENA ISSUE”? Mr. Gorton did not give a rosy picture in this regards. So in order for a mediated solution to be made what is the answer on “The ARENA ISSUE”. I guess hope that the folks in Olympia and Ron Sims see there way clear to matching a tax already in place and set to expire ahead of time in order to receive a gift from private citizens for a public park. It seems ridiculous.
I think we may being moving towards all of our eggs in the lawsuit basket and hoping beyond hope that next January our State Employees in Olympia will agree to extend the taxes on rental cars and restaurants in King County.
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:37 am
mrcysco, I think your argument leads to the possibility of a negotiated settlement during the trial, which is very common. Bennett tests the waters by going through most of the testimony, knowing that he can go to Plan B (NBA brokered deal with OKC getting at least the promise of a team) if it’s looking bleak. He may well be getting some pressure to go to Plan B by the NBA now. None of this makes the league look good. In fact this is already an ugly black eye. And it gets worse with live testimony and the potential ruling that the Sonics have an enforceable lease. If that happens, it means the other owners went out on a limb on the lease issue with Bennett. They cannot be happy about this. They expected this to end with a truckload of Aubrey’s cash, not a circus sideshow…
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:46 am
So if the NBA said “Clay sell the team to a local buyer and we’ll give you an expansion team to keep this from going to trial” you guys would be against that. That my friends is what you call a settlement. I know lots of you are against a settlement, but you have to be willing to listen. Like the lawyer in the article said 90% of the time these cases get settled out of court.
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:48 am
I am confused. Just about everyone, at least that posts here,says that the city has a very strong case and will probably win. But in this article he says that the city will have a difficult time enforcing the lease. So?
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:06 am
Eric….um no why would anyone be against that? Isn’t that what we all want the settlement to be? Its just not expected that that what the offer would be,therefore we would rather go to trial.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:07 am
It is lose/lose because if the trial goes forward, any bridge to another NBA team will be burnt as long as Stern is in office. He has taken this personally since day one and he will hold a grudge against the city regardless of who is holding public office.
I think that it is clear that there are NO teams available for relocation. New Orleans is doing well now and their attendance has improved, and the league won’t leave the rebuilding city for quite some time. Memphis designed a rock hard lease that makes the pain of relocation so high for the next decade that we are not likely to see any change there. Charlotte is not likely to relocate either despite the mess they are in from an attendance point of view. They have a new team because they settled.
The only possibility is expansion which is simply not likely.
I think that is the biggest stumbling block to negotiations. The city won’t settle without a team and the league doesn’t really have a team to offer.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:07 am
I think the silence by both sides the last week or so speaks volumns. There is something going on behind the scenes right now. My theory is that if they wern’t talking the mudslinging would still be going on. This friday is a big day as the judge decides whats in and whats out. It could be the turning point. It feels like Christmas eve and the first day of school all rolled into one. Excitement but complete nervous apprehension. I may not sleep for two weeks. This is killing me right now. We need to see this through. Only settle if we keep this team or an uninterupted basketball presence in Seattle.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:15 am
Well said Stone. It’s well past time to come up with a solution that includes a new facility with significant private contribution and end this reliance on a legislature that is dead set against supporting an arena deal at the Key. No matter how beneficial, rational, or logical it seems at the time.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:17 am
Any ’settlement’ that does not leave THIS Sonics team in Seattle would be a sell out. Period. Can I say it again? Some sort of “Browns” deal is totally unescapable!
Seattle will win this going away—If Seattle holds firm!
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:20 am
And we are a 4 sport town, as we get MLS next year. And before anyone discounts soccer as a major sport, realize that the Sounders FC has more season ticket holders than the Sonics do. As a season ticket holder to both, its discouraging that a team that has never played a game can get more supporters than our oldest tenured team. I chalk it up to the new shiny thing on the block. Sonics basketball will be king of Seattle again, I just hope its soon.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:26 am
West Seattle Tim: It’s been a lot longer than a week or so. The cone of silence came down not long after the BOG vote. I think it probably had something to do with the fact that in the Schultz court filing, Yarmuth quoted Clay from his news conference after the relocation vote. Idiots. They couldn’t open their mouths without giving evidence to the city and Schultz. So, I’m less convinced that it has to do with anything other than they wanted to stop pouring gas on the fire. But it could be true that they are negotiating, too. At minimum I hope there is some private communication happening. Nothing good was ever going to come from just public name calling and threats…
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:26 am
West Seattle Tim: As for anyone discounting Soccer as a major sport - the Brazil vs Canada game last weekend @ Qwest had 47,052 in attendance.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:28 am
And the Mexico - China game had 56,000+
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:32 am
I was under the impression that The City had decided to base the trial on the merits of the lease and not rally get into the whole fraud-best effort tactic. If that is the case then I don’t see all clays dirty laundy getting aired in this trial. Blackeyes yes. Blood maybe not.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:35 am
“Any ’settlement’ that does not leave THIS Sonics team in Seattle would be a sell out. Period. Can I say it again? Some sort of “Browns” deal is totally unescapable!”
Do you think Cleveland fans wish they didn’t have their current team but instead the knowledge they didn’t ’sell out.’ I think their happy with their new team at the present.
Please look at the big picture.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:38 am
Nate–its you buddy, who needs to look at the big pitcture
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:39 am
The City is throwing the “body blow”, Schultz is going for the “knock him out”!
Man, I miss Punch Out!
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:39 am
I really can’t wait to see how many people Sonicscentral loses if we do in fact get an expansion team. My bet…not many…
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:41 am
“I really can’t wait to see how many people Sonicscentral loses if we do in fact get an expansion team. My bet…not many…”
All I have to say to that is:
SAVE THESE KD & GREEN LED SONICS OR BUST!!!
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:42 am
As a season ticket holder to both, its discouraging that a team that has never played a game can get more supporters than our oldest tenured team. I chalk it up to the new shiny thing on the block. Sonics basketball will be king of Seattle again, I just hope its soon.
- Me thinks that if Sonics season tickets were as much as Sounders season tickets the totals would be drastically different…
Do you think Cleveland fans wish they didn’t have their current team but instead the knowledge they didn’t ’sell out.’ I think their happy with their new team at the present.
Please look at the big picture.
- Wow a voice of reason here…welcome to the side of sanity Nate.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:44 am
All I have to say to that is:
SAVE THESE KD & GREEN LED SONICS OR BUST!!!
- Yup…and I look forward to discussing Sonics basketball (no matter who ends up being the players) in the near future. The one thing that Stern has really seemed to have accomplished in his tenure as NBA commish is convincing fans that the players are more important than the team..
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:48 am
I’m with you, Nate and Myk. Clearly my strong preference is to retain the current incarnation of the team, but I trust the discretion of Slade & Co. If they think an expansion team is the best possible outcome, then so be it. It will be extremely painful to let go of KD, Nick, Green, and all the memories, but I suspect I’ll get over it eventually. And if the new team has ties to the Sonics legacy (e.g. GP as an assistant coach), the transition will be that much easier. Plus the Seattle-OKC rivalry will be epic, and it’s a virtual certainty that any Ballmer-owned team will be more competitive than Bennett’s OKC Barons.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:50 am
My Sounders seats cost more than my Sonics seats per game, there are just less games.
Sounders FC - $30 a game, 18 games, 2 seats $1080
Sonics - $25 a game, 41 games, 2 seats $2050
Even at half the cost, the Sounders have twice as many season ticket holders. I think its a wash, but again, the Sounders are new and there is more interest right now. If the Sonics didn’t stink and were possibly moving, perhaps they would have more of a season ticket holder base.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:51 am
Myk Says:
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:39 am
I really can’t wait to see how many people Sonicscentral loses if we do in fact get an expansion team. My bet…not many…
The name of the web site would need to be changed to:
“bringdownthecorruptnbamachineandherrsterncentral.com”
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:55 am
Vinny, I think that web site already exists, but the Russian guy that owns it said you can buy it from him for $500.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:07 am
Even at half the cost, the Sounders have twice as many season ticket holders. I think its a wash, but again, the Sounders are new and there is more interest right now. If the Sonics didn’t stink and were possibly moving, perhaps they would have more of a season ticket holder base.
- $1000 compared to $2000 is a pretty big deal. Its the same reason why the Seahawks should always have more Season ticket holders than the other teams. Having to only pay for 10 games as compared to 18 games, 41 games or 81 games definately makes it easier for the average fan.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:07 am
Hey Tim!
Do you think the Russian Guy would take $200 & a product endorsement from Earl Watson?
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:15 am
Devil’s Advocate
In the Schultz trail,is this scenario
a.)for sure,
b.) likely,
c.)unlikely
d.) no way going to happen:
(I hope it’s ‘d’)
Judge or defense asks Howard what he meant specifically by good faith since his ‘deal breaker’ letter didnt specify.
At that point Howard can either give an example or not.
If he gives an example or any kind of plan, wont the Judge ask why such an example wasnt specified in the letter?
If he doesnt give an answer as to what he considers good faith, he will then be leaving it up to the judge to specify and that seems like a bad situation to me. He in essence will be asking the judge to define ‘good faith’ in the context of his letter.
Seems like more a longshot from that standpoint.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:27 am
He would, but only if Sene gets to stand behind Earl and nod approvingly.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:34 am
calabro, I don’t think the judge needs to decide what good faith is as Bennett could have done nothing and called it good faith. the fact that he was already talking about moving the team to OKC before the 12 month time frame expired proves regardless of the definition, his intentions were other than good faith.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:35 am
Technically I don’t think the Bucks have a lease yet for next season and the Kings might be on option years. Though no one expects them to affect our situation.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:36 am
I heard that Jeff Green is going to be having a PRIVATE Draft Party at Fox Sports Grill
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:39 am
Yeah, you have to win Vitamin Waters contest to get in. Maybe Jeff Green will let some of us in on a VIP list?
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:42 am
it would be nice to fill Fox Sports grill with SOS Fans!!
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:45 am
The judge shouldn’t even bring up good faith during the trial, because this trail is only about specific performance.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:49 am
just give me a team that answers to ’seattle supersonics,’ and i’ll be happy enough. sure, keeing this iteration of the franchise would be fine, and i like kd & jg, but in a few years, if the ‘new’ sonics are good and beating the ‘old’ sonics, i’ll like the guys on the new roster.
just don’t make the seattle nba sonics history. keep the future alive.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:52 am
I’m going to post this before I read through the thread, because it’s worth saying– and if it’s been said, worth repeating.
We have NOTHING TO LOSE by going after Stern, Bennett, and the NBA! Stern has ALREADY pretty much guaranteed that Seattle will NOT get an expansion franchise, under any circumstances, even though he implies that if we continue this course of holding firm, we won’t get an expansion team. So we won’t get one, but if we fight, then we won’t get one. Screw him.
But here’s the thing… We sit in a very large, attractive market with a deep basketball culture and heritage, and if we have no team, it won’t be long before at least a half-dozen owners start to eyeball this area for thier team.
I’d rather take my chances and fight these clowns– and risk a few years of no team, than give in without a bloodbath.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:03 am
West Seattle Tim & Myk,
$1000 for Sounders tickets = fantastic seats.
$2000 for Sonics tickets = crappy (sorry, I’m spoiled) seats.
It’s really hard to compare them. Just like Seahawk tickets… It’s a lot easier to plan to go to 8 games knowing almost every game is on Sunday. I’ve been a Sonics season ticket holder too, but I surrendered to traffic. It came down to either my job, or my sonics tickets. Unfortunately, my job had a higher priority.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:05 am
good faith
–noun accordance with standards of honesty, trust, sincerity, etc. (usually prec. by in): If you act in good faith, he’ll have no reason to question your motives.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:07 am
If some sort of “Browns Settlement” is reached, at least I can look forward to getting good seats. ‘Cuz apparantly not many of you guys will be going to the games.
I would prefer OKC gets another team and we keep this one. But I want to watch, cheer, support the Seattle Supersonics. The players by and large are meaningless. They come and go. Can anyone name the longest tenured player in team history. Its the nature of the NBA business for players to come and go. Remember just a few years ago, there was quite a bit of support for trading GP, arguably our best player ever. Why, because it was better in the long run for the TEAM. I support whatever keeps the Sonics here. Our team here.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:08 am
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This good faith
n. Compliance with standards of decency and honesty: bargained in good faith.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:09 am
Howard specifically used the term “good faith best efforts” because it apparently sets a stronger legal requirement.
I don’t think Bennett either used good faith or gave his best effort.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:12 am
Actually, my Sonics seats are sec 228, row 2, seats 1-2. They are $50 seats but for the season tickets they are half price, so I wouldn’t consider them crappy. I sit between the three-point line and half-court. I have great sight lines and easy egress. I have had them for years and wouldn’t move, even to lower bowl seats.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:19 am
good faith
n. honest intent to act without taking an unfair advantage over another person or to fulfill a promise to act, even when some legal technicality is not fulfilled. The term is applied to all kinds of transactions.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:21 am
bad faith
1) n. intentional dishonest act by not fulfilling legal or contractual obligations, misleading another, entering into an agreement without the intention or means to fulfill it, or violating basic standards of honesty in dealing with others. Most states recognize what is called “implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing” which is breached by acts of bad faith, for which a lawsuit may be brought (filed) for the breach (just as one might sue for breach of contract). The question of bad faith may be raised as a defense to a suit on a contract. 2) adj. when there is bad faith then a transaction is called a “bad faith” contract or “bad faith” offer.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:22 am
David Stern just said The Sonics will move this season or the year 2010 guaranteed. He’s on WFAN in NY right now.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:23 am
fraud in the inducement
n. the use of deceit or trick to cause someone to act to his/her disadvantage, such as signing an agreement or deeding away real property. The heart of this type of fraud is misleading the other party as to the facts upon which he/she will base his/her decision to act. Example: “there will be tax advantages to you if you let me take title to your property,” or “you don’t have to read the rest of the contract-it is just routine legal language” but actually includes a balloon payment.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:24 am
Guess he’s not saying anything else about the Sonics. Too bad everyone listening probably believes him when he says there gone for sure.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:27 am
John Says:
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:26 am e
“West Seattle Tim: As for anyone discounting Soccer as a major sport - the Brazil vs Canada game last weekend @ Qwest had 47,052 in attendance. ”
I do not give a ratsass about other sports, don’t know why, but I don’t.
Soccer could be #1 with everybody else, but that’s not me. I have been to a Seahawks game at Qwest once, NFC champ game against the Giants and I was given a free ticket, a ride, free parking, and I almost said no.
This here is not about those other sports, or other teams, or other cities like Oklahoma City. This is not about the NHL, arena football, or road bowling.
http://www.wvirishroadbowling.com/
You might as well compare a Sonics ticket to underwater pumkin carving.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:39 am
Screw David Stern.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:44 am
At least someone else besides the media in Seattle brought it up though. I mean…you don’t hear anything about the Sonics situation. I’m guessing that’ll change when the trial starts.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:48 am
Stern has been saying that since April, if not earlier, so I wouldn’t expect him to change course now. However, he’ll be singing a different tune once we get an arena funded.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:54 am
call it like calabro Says:
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:15 am e
Devil’s Advocate
“In the Schultz trail,is this scenario
a.)for sure,
b.) likely,
c.)unlikely
d.) no way going to happen:
(I hope it’s ‘d’)”
I would have to say = D.
Object, requires legal definition, object to form, witness is not a legal expert.
He could then fall back to a general idea, corrispondence, the agreement, etc.
Then you go to “calculatus eliminatus”, (it’s the best friend that you’ve got).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cat_in_the_Hat_(TV_special)
Calculatus Eliminatus, aka, process of elimination http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_of_elimination
Filing for arbitration to break the lease and move the OKC with more than a month to go in the 12 month good faith best effort period is NOT one of those things that could be called good faith best efforts. Pile them on from there.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:13 pm
OT—Kevin Durant was named the 14th highest paid athlete this year–Kevin Durant
Seattle SuperSonics (NBA)
Last Year’s Rank: NR
$4,300,000–salary
$21,650,000–endorsements
$25,950,000 Total
The 2007-08 Rookie of the Year will have to wait three more seasons for a giant contract, but his $7 million-a-year deal with Nike included a $12 million signing bonus.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:21 pm
“The 2007-08 Rookie of the Year will have to wait three more seasons for a giant contract, but his $7 million-a-year deal with Nike included a $12 million signing bonus.”
Okies, beware: there’s no way Nike lets KD play for an OKC franchise, not with the headache Jordan is having trying to move CP3 product with him starring in NO.
Some people tend to think that with the internet, tv, and global market that location has little to do with an athlete’s ability to move product these days. Those people are dead wrong.
SAVE THESE KD & GREEN LED SONICS OR BUST!!!
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:21 pm
“David Stern just said The Sonics will move this season or the year 2010 guaranteed. He’s on WFAN in NY right now. ”
David Stern can gaurantee the outcome of Howard Shultz’s lawsuit. Has he got a time machine or something? Saying somithing like that at this point is just stupid. I used to think he was pretty smart- now I really think he’s losing it.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Some people tend to think that with the internet, tv, and global market that location has little to do with an athlete’s ability to move product these days. Those people are dead wrong.
- And Seattle is any better?
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:27 pm
“I don’t see the motivation for Bennett/NBA to settle before the case. Either they settle now, win the trial and move, or lose the trial and settle later. Bennett doesn’t have much to gain by settling now.”
The above is wrong. Hopefully, the only settlement that the City of Seattle is willing to entertain is keeping the original Sonics in Seattle. This means the only solution is an expansion team, which must be sanctioned by the NBA. Stern is very highly motivated to avoid the trial, because the biggest losers will be himself and the NBA.
The PBC has too much money on the line to be forced into staying in Seattle another 2 years. Besides that, they have some obligation to Stern to cooperate with him. Furthermore, the PBC must remain in Stern’s good graces, because the NBA must still approve a move, which it will not do without Stern’s support.
During these negotiations, Stern will promise an expansion team and the PBC will damage themselves and their friends if they don’t take it. Finally, regardless of who wins the lease suit, the PBC must face Schultz in court. Meanwhile the NBA will have shrinking revenue for at least 2 years, bad press through 2 trials (including 6 days in June when daily ESPN coverage is likely), and a diminished fan base before and after the move to OKC.
With an expansion team in OKC, the NBA will retain the NBA will retain the market coverage provided by Seattle, as well as the west coast to Asia connection, that will serve as the gateway to the NBA’s future.
Finally, the NBA’s worst nightmare is an anti-trust lawsuit if a Seattle group puts together a team and demands to get on the schedule.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:28 pm
I guess we can just wait until CP3 and Derron Williams has to sign a contract to see if Media Market plays a big role in their decision…its never happened before…but maybe it will now.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Stern is just protecting his bosses’ interests. Plus, maybe he’s scared of the idea of having to work for Steve Ballmer… I doubt you’d catch Ballmer “crushing” on Stern like The Bennett…
SAVE THESE KD & GREEN LED SONICS OR BUST!!!
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:31 pm
I wonder what Judge Pechman thinks of David Stern deciding her cases before it even gets to court?
I hope quotes like that make it to her.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:34 pm
“Myk Says:
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:28 pm
I guess we can just wait until CP3 and Derron Williams has to sign a contract to see if Media Market plays a big role in their decision…its never happened before…but maybe it will now.”
CP3 will leave the Hornets for a big market sooner than later. Melo will probably bolt, too. D-Will is great, but not elite. He’s in a Shawn Marion/Paul Pierce catagory.
Much like your push to sell our Sonics, er, settle for an expansion team, you again make no sense to me, Myk.
SAVE THESE KD & GREEN SONICS OR BUST!!!
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:43 pm
“Finally, the NBA’s worst nightmare is an anti-trust lawsuit if a Seattle group puts together a team and demands to get on the schedule. ”
I think that’s one of their top 3 nightmares, here’s the other 2:
1. Seattle claiming the team under Eminant Domain.
2. Their commisioner being brought up on charges of extortion.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:43 pm
I don’t know why, at this point, Stern is still talking. I have my guesses…but the man is just a “corporate sociopath”. At this point I think rationality has not only completely gone from him, but will, in all probability, never return.
It’s simple guys, they aren’t going to settle. Whether they are confident or pompous….I just don’t feel at this point that they will do it. This is going all the way, even if it got to the point where the Schultz and Yarmuth could sense a sure victory they won’t pull up short and take any deals. Wins look better than settlements….
If I am wrong about this….then so be it. But mark my words, copy them down, and then highlight them. If I am wrong, you all can rake me over the coals. I am going to stick to this, even if they come to you and offer the sale of THIS team to Ballmer, leaving an expansion in OKC…you don’t do it. There is too much at stake here, more than just the Sonics, more than just our memories, more than just KD and JG.
WE..MUST..SEE..THIS..THING..THROUGH!
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Mr Baker,
The Sonics Vs Seahawks Vs Sounders correlation was to show that you really can’t compare their fanbase based on game attendance. Which in the case of the Sonics, I am implying that the number of fans in the seats doesn’t reflect the fanbase at all. I’m as diehard as it gets, yet because of where I live and when the games are - I am unable to attend. But the Seahawks are always (usually) weekends, so I have Season tix.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Much like your push to sell our Sonics, er, settle for an expansion team, you again make no sense to me, Myk.
- Because the stances you take have no historical perspecitive it would make sense that my logic doesn’t make sense to you.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:48 pm
Much like your push to sell our Sonics, er, settle for an expansion team, you again make no sense to me, Myk.
- If you’d like to give a list of superstars who have taken less money to be in a bigger market I’d love to see it. The closest thing I can think of is Shaq and Im not even sure he took less money to leave from Orlando to the Lakers…regardless that was 13 years ago and one incident.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:51 pm
CP3 is going to sign a massive extension with NO this summer. George Shinn has already stated his intention to make a max offer to him, and I can’t see Paul turning that down.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:52 pm
“I guess we can just wait until CP3 and Derron Williams has to sign a contract to see if Media Market plays a big role in their decision…its never happened before…but maybe it will now.”
I think it also depends on who else has cap space etc.
The one thing to consider is are any of these guys going to be willing to go through to the end of thier rookie contracts without signing an extention just based on media market. That’s what I don’t know.
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:58 pm
I guess we were wrong about Stern not wanting to put more gas on the fire. I am so angry at what he just said. I guess he isn’t taking the Shultz case seriously. Really what is wrong with this guy. Maybe he just said that today to scare Seattle into settling?
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:00 pm
“I’d rather take my chances and fight these clowns– and risk a few years of no team, than give in without a bloodbath. ”
“It’s simple guys, they aren’t going to settle. Whether they are confident or pompous….I just don’t feel at this point that they will do it. This is going all the way, even if it got to the point where the Schultz and Yarmuth could sense a sure victory they won’t pull up short and take any deals. Wins look better than settlements….”
That is a totally stupid way to run a negotiation. If the bottom line is to keep basketball in this city you cannot take a hardline like that and still negotiate. We have been saying this for months. I am not saying that the city should settle for anything less than uninterrupted basketball, but all these posters that want a prolonged public trial just to rub David Stern’s nose in sh*t need to get over yourselves and really think about what you are asking for there. Yeah, Stern is going to go on the stand and let himself be completely humiliated and perhaps open himself up to charges of perjury. Come on.
The right move for the league to make is to settle. That’s patently obvious to almost everyone that’s actually read the evidence. I expect that the NBA will do exactly that either the day before or the day of the trial. Until that day comes however, they can say whatever they want in the press; don’t buy into it. Stern is an antagonist and he is willing to play bad cop to protect his owners but if the league truly realizes they aren’t going to win this suit (and they won’t) they’ll eventually cave. You’ll see.
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:01 pm
Bennett’s fraudulant group should be ordered to enact one of the following:
1. sell the Sonics to local owners
2. help build an arena in Seattle to continue owning team
3. help remodel Key Arena and extend lease agreement by five to ten years as a gesture of good faith
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:01 pm
“even if they come to you and offer the sale of THIS team to Ballmer, leaving an expansion in OKC…you don’t do it.”
I’ll take that deal every day of the week and twice on Sundays and so will the City.
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:04 pm
I will be surprised if they do not go to court (Brian can sometimes be overly optimistic). I do think the Sonics will lose - the worst case scenario for the city is the judge orders 1 more year plus damages.
I do not think the NBA will get that big a black eye - even if they lose. People forget and do not care that much in other markets. Studies show that after strikes people show up in similar #’s - so even those do not slow things down. This is not nearly as big a deal as a strike.
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:05 pm
“West Seattle Tim: As for anyone discounting Soccer as a major sport - the Brazil vs Canada game last weekend @ Qwest had 47,052 in attendance. ”
Keep in mind this was for two national teams. One being Brazil one of the most popular soccer countries in the world.
Sounders won’t even come close to numbers like this. They will probably sell out the LA Galaxy/Beckham game……but other than that attendance isn’t going to come close to the other sports in town.
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Seattle Sonics = Pittsburg Penguins (2 years ago)
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Off Topic - for those who say Kevin Love is not athletic enough to make an impact in the NBA, compare his combine results (just released at DraftExpress) to those of Al Horford. Love and Horford have virtually identical vertical leaps, Horford barely edged him out in the bench press (20 reps to 18), and Love had better times in the lane agility drill and 3/4 court sprint. Love will be just fine in the NBA. I see him as a 16 PPG, 9 REB guy who makes some team very, very happy to have drafted him in the 5-8 range.
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:12 pm
All I ask is uninterupted basketball for the city. KD and JGreen are toe great players to build around, but what if we had a Rose, or Beasly, or similar player next year? Would we be any worse off than last years Sonics team? Every year there is a great player that comes out of the draft and people get excited to see them. why would the new Sonics be any different? Plus, with a new team we wouldn’t be saddled with bad contracts. Plus, beside KD, what do you have to be excited about the current team? I have had season tickets for 15 years, and many players have come and gone. I just want the chance to watch basketball in my hometown. And yes, I would definetley prefer to retain the current team, purley out of nostalgia, but if they moved memphis here, changed their name to the Sonics and played next season, i would still get tickets. Basketball is basketball, as long as the Sonics, in whatever form they are, continue to play in Seattle uninterupted, I will only worry about the name on the front of the jersey, not the one on the back.
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:12 pm
“I do not think the NBA will get that big a black eye - even if they lose. People forget and do not care that much in other markets. Studies show that after strikes people show up in similar #’s - so even those do not slow things down. This is not nearly as big a deal as a strike.”
Unfortunately, I agree with this. What can we do to make sure the trial gets as much NATIONAL attention as possible?
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:14 pm
“I’ll take that deal every day of the week and twice on Sundays and so will the City.”
And I think that most people would as well. I just think that there is too much good that can be done here…more than just “rubbing David Sterns nose in it”.
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:18 pm
menance, the Sounders FC have sold 14,000 season tickets. That already surpasses the Sonics, and is closing in on the Mariners. Plus with it being the new kid in town, count on 20,000 plus a game for the first season. The Mariners are avg 28,000 a game. I would say that the Sounders FC will come closer than you think.
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Don’t worry about what Stern say’s. If they are negotiating he’s not going to say anything to screw that up. He’s going to stick to the company line until an actual settlement is reached.
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:29 pm
What about Nick Collison & 1.88mil trade exception & #4 for #2 & Marcus Banks?
Sound icky?
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:32 pm
This will be the Brown vs the Board of education type of Court Case. Everyone is all in at this moment. I call on Congress and the Supreme Courts to get involved.
Why the NBA is all in:
Because if the Seattle loses this case(s) and the Supes leave then they(NBA) have an open door to extort the rest of the country. They want a FREE AGENCY of teams with regards to cities.
Why Seattle is all in:
because elected officials will be voted out and it will be a black eye for Seattle’s prestige as a major league city. it is like going backwards. Especially Seattle with regards to the Sonics. The Mariners and the Seahawks use to be cursed daily in comparison to the Seattle SuperSonics!!!! “At least the Sonics are good”
I still hold a bit of hatred for the Seachickens for all those years of pain and insult..
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Presti has his starting shooting guard in Durant and a decent point-guard combo in Watsnour, while Petro is in his final contractual year and Wilcox should be gone when he demands ten million a year. Collison could be the last remaining big man for the Sonics if Swift and Sene don’t make it. Bayless seems counterproductive with perhaps a shoot first mentality, his less than ideal height and his questionable personality…seems logical to assume Kevin Love could be the better selection at four if the Mayo is gone.
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Xteve, you quoted me but I think you got the impression I want a bloodbath no matter what. No, the goal is to keep our team– somehow get it out of the hands of Bennett and into local ownership.
My point was that we have nothing to lose by fighting until we either win or a settlement gives us our current team.
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:43 pm
I would not settle for an expansion team in Seattle. We have had a team for 41 years. We have Kemp, Payton, Lenny Wilkens, Freddie Brown, Sikma, Gus Williams, Dennis Johnson, Ray Allen, Xavier McDaniel, Dale Ellis and many other greats play here.
A benevolent owner like Ballmer can keep the Sonics here in a remodeled Key Arena. Before Seattle is awarded an expansion team, they would need to build a new 1/2 billion dollar facility, which is not going to happen in the post-Bush 21st century.
So settling for expansion is like settling for nothing. Why settle for nothing? We are very likely to win in June, vastly increase our negotiating power and succeed in retaining our original Sonics.
The more SOS talks about settling, the more you empower the mayor to take the easy out. You are selling us out.
PS. Of course, negotiations will be needed regardless of who keeps the team… I am only opposed to consideration of allowing the team to leave. That point should be off the table. Let OKC take the expansion team.
I would rather have the team here just 2 more years and then lose them forever rather than settle. Settling is losing.
If we were down by 6 points with the ball and 10 seconds left, would you settle for a loss? I would go for two quick 3 pointers. I would foul the other team, I would attempt to intercept the inbounds pass, I would steal the ball. I would not settle for a loss. Sure, we might miss the bucket, but I would rather go down trying to win.
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:52 pm
I am still unsure about Love. After the many, and I mean many, failed attempts at drafting or signing big men, I am still very gun shy about Love. Here is a few reminders on why “potential” and “big man” should send shivers up your spine:
Jelani McCoy
Vladimir Stepania
Patrick Ewing
Calvin Booth
Jim McIlvane
Olumide Oyedeji
Jerome James
Vitaly Potapenko
Peja Drobnjak and his cat Jinkies
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IFw64d-y-qE
Sene
Swift
Petro
Need I go on?
Our inside presence has always been better with a strong PF than with a center, ever since Sikma left. I would rather take a undersized PF than an oversized stiff, any day. Love and Lopez both smell like stiffs to me. And maybe it’s just the list above that makes me hesitant, but Collison holds his own inside, he just needs some help, and not necessarily a big man.
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Has anyone thought about Stern’s intentions with his sound-bite today? I think that he wants to beat it (the Sonics/city trial and the Schultz case) into the background so it doesn’t get mentioned during the NBA Finals and afterward.
It would be a best case scenario from a PR perspective if the Seattle case remains a regional story and doesn’t break national headlines.
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Rock…seriously, perfectly said. You are right on I couldn’t agree with you more. Settling is losing.
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:06 pm
“Myk Says:
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Much like your push to sell our Sonics, er, settle for an expansion team, you again make no sense to me, Myk.
- Because the stances you take have no historical perspecitive it would make sense that my logic doesn’t make sense to you.”
And the stances you take have no backbone. No to boycotting Starbucks pre-Schultz’s involvement and yes to settling for an expansion team after 41+ years of Seattle supporting this franchise!? You have no integrity, and clearly value the NBA more than this team. I have no interest in playing the role of David Stern’s doormat.
SAVE THESE KD & GREEN LED SONICS WITH HISTORICAL TIES TO GP, KEMP, SMOOTH, CAGE, ELLIS, RAY, RASHARD, SHREMPF, SIKMA, BROWN, WATTS, NATE, LENNY, AND 1979 OR BUST!!!
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:07 pm
West Seattle Tim,
I can definitely empathize with you. After so many failed big man experiments, I’m reluctant to ever draft an unproven PF/C again. However, Love is different in the sense that he won’t be drafted based on “potential.” No one is expecting his game to magically grow by leaps and bounds over the next five years. The thesis is that he is already quite polished and capable of contributing. He doesn’t have as much upside as someone like DeAndre Jordan, but he’s a virtual lock (IMO) to be a quality NBA starter. I’m not sure who you were referring to when you said you’d rather take an undersized PF than an oversized stiff, but Love definitely fits into the former category rather than the latter. Best case scenario: Elton Brand. Worst case: Nick Collison v2.0
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Sam K - we already have a Nick Collison… thee Nick Collison, complete with vet savvy… why would we need another?
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Sam K, I don’t pretend to know every aspect of Loves game, I only saw him a few times. But if could be Brand and worse case Collison, than I’m in. But I still would prefer someone to distribute the ball than any other position. Just my opinion.
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:15 pm
T Says: June 3rd, 2008 at 12:58 pm
“I guess we were wrong about Stern not wanting to put more gas on the fire. I am so angry at what he just said. I guess he isn’t taking the Shultz case seriously. Really what is wrong with this guy. Maybe he just said that today to scare Seattle into settling?”
Exactly, T, on your last sentence. It doesn’t have anything to do with David Stern not taking the Howard Schultz lawsuit seriously. I’m sure he is well aware that Howard could win that and screw up his plans, but he is posturing. He is used to acting tough, giving ultimatums, making the decisions for the league (for which he gets owners stamps of approval - often at a later date), and always, ALWAYS acting like HE IS THE LAST WORD in all things NBA - like he has the crystal ball and he knows exactly what is going to happen. But the truth is, he doesn’t have a clue. He’s trying to bluff his way out of this one and ACT SO CONFIDENT that Seattle starts sweating and backs down.
A statement like the one he made today is not only absurd, it also casts him in a very bad light for anyone who is following this. If he looked at the facts in this case, and, IF David Stern was an impartial, objective commissioner who wanted to insure fairness and ‘playing by the rules’ (sort of like a judge), and IF this had not been HIS IDEA in the first place to steal Seattle’s team and relocate it to OKC, then he would be making comments like “We need to wait to see if the judge thinks that PBC made a ‘Good Faith Best Effort’ to keep the Sonics in Seattle. If there has been a breach of contract here then the Sonics will remain in Seattle for now”, or something like that.
I hope everyone realizes that IF IT HAD NOT BEEN DAVID STERN’S IDEA ORIGINALLY TO MOVE THE SONICS, then there is NO WAY that he would have been an apologist for Clay Bennett from the beginning. He jumped on the lack of “Good Faith Best Effort” thing right away and said ‘I think that PBC has acted in good faith and done what they needed to do to satisfy the agreement’ or something like that. Boy, he jumped to that conclusion quicker than he could read the 2 or 3 emails that showed the fraud. He kept saying he hadn’t seen the emails or he hadn’t studied them. What garbage.
I think most of us here understand these points and the implication, but most people across the country do not. We absolutely need to get the word out. David Stern feels free to lie because he does not feel that Sonics fans can hurt him. He is not afraid of us. He is pompous and ultra-arrogant and what he says goes, right or wrong - ethical or unethical. I think his motto is “Just Try to Stop Me.” This is exactly what we will have to do to keep OUR SEATTLE SONICS here in Washington. We need to be a LOT MORE VOCAL NATIONALLY in the media - print, talk radio, video, call-in shows, do interviews, etc. Get the word out to put pressure on Stern. I agree with “Kryten” who said at 10:52 AM: “We have NOTHING TO LOSE by going after Stern …”
And what may be more to the point is the corollary: We have Everything to Lose if we do not go after David Stern. If you believe that Stern is Dirty and the Cause of the whole mess that we are in, then you have to go after David Stern with guns blazing!!!
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Gotta get someone this year to take the spot vacated by Wilcox next year.
Nick might move into the starting role or maybe some hotshot rook takes it from Collison, who knows?
But regardless they need to get a big body in here to find out.
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:16 pm
I’ll take another Nick Collison all day long. Not with the 4th pick, of course. But if that’s Love’s worst case scenario, as I believe it is, then he’s a very safe pick. It would be great to have a distributor, but I’m not convinced Bayless/Mayo is that guy. We’re so bad that Best Player Available is the right philosophy; drafting to fill holes in a terrible roster makes no sense. We can always go after Ricky Rubio or Brandon Jennings next year.
Bottom line: would rather have Bayless/Mayo than Love, but if someone drafting in the 5-8 range makes a compelling offer to move up, I would strongly consider it.
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:26 pm
So, J. Oneal was mentioned earlier in another thread. I don’t know how the salaries work…but what if you could send Wilcox, the #4 and another pick either in the second round this year or in the future(1st or 2nd)…would you do that?
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:27 pm
That is a totally stupid way to run a negotiation. If the bottom line is to keep basketball in this city you cannot take a hardline like that and still negotiate. We have been saying this for months.
- Xteve…in case you haven’t realized certain people just do not care. They are willing to completely ignore a rational way to run a business…to live life…at this point you just have to give up and understand that they will never understand this…they will forever think that they are somehow taking a stand that would somehow be weakened by being logical.
And the stances you take have no backbone. No to boycotting Starbucks pre-Schultz’s involvement and yes to settling for an expansion team after 41+ years of Seattle supporting this franchise!? You have no integrity, and clearly value the NBA more than this team. I have no interest in playing the role of David Stern’s doormat.
- LOL…yes I have no integrity because I do not act like a stubborn fool and participate in activities that only effects one person: myself.
It sure does take a bunch of integrity to boycott Starbucks when the only person who’s “happiness” possibly gets effected is myself.
It sure does take a bunch of integrity to be a stubborn fool who will not accept an expansion franchise and an uninterupted NBA presence in Seattle because of one player KD who may be great and another play who only has a good reputation because he was drafted with the 5th pick in the draft. Again, yet another situation where it makes soooooo much more sense to give up my “happiness” (watching basketball)…unless I get the only outcome I believe is right.
How much integrity is there in not supporting a situation that would make most people happy because it doesn’t fit in my extremely narrorw view on the world. That sure does take integrity to be so selfish…
Lastly…in your little CAP ending…besides KD and Jeff Green what do any of the people you mentioned have to do with the current Sonics? I find it amazing that people cannot seperate these two things.
If an expansion team comes to Seattle in 2010 is that somehow supposed to delete all my previous memories of Sonics basketball? Nope…i will tell you what…absolutely nothing will change…why would it? All of this occured in the PAST..absolutely nothing will change where you were when the Sonics won the 1979 NBA title…absolutely nothing will change where you were when the Sonics won the 1996 WCF…those memories are our forever.
It is just insanely close minded and downright dumb to risk everything to protect something that has no need to be protected. It’d be like someone saying they’d give you $1 Billion dollars or the opportunity for a 1 in 1,000,000,000 shot in $10 Billion dollars and deciding you will go with the extreme long shot.
At least you have your foolishness…errr, I mean integrity
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:30 pm
On top of all that Clint…I truly appreciate your enthusiasm to the cause. You are a true Sonics fan and I do not want to demean your “team spirit” or whatever you want to cause it. It is the energy of fans like you and most everyone on the board that keeps the Sonics still alive in the public’s eyes…
It is that enthusiasm that leads me to believe more than ever that if the 2010 Expansion Sonics are playing in the Key Arena you will be on this board debating about who the Sonics should’ve taken in the Expansion draft and with their #1 overall pick.
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:32 pm
So, J. Oneal was mentioned earlier in another thread. I don’t know how the salaries work…but what if you could send Wilcox, the #4 and another pick either in the second round this year or in the future(1st or 2nd)…would you do that?
- Nope…we’ve already taken the time to gut the team to create roster and salary cap flexibility…trading for O’Neal would just remove all that and we’d be stuck with a sh!tty roster and no flexibility.
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:42 pm
O’neal had 2 more years on his contract, i beleive hes around almost 20 mil a year or close to it. you would need to send one of our pg, plus wilcox, plus maybe our trade excpt. plus our #4 for O’neal and #11 pick. With that pick you take either Augistine, or Westbrook. starting line up of augistine, durant, green, collison, oneal would be nice.
Plus the time the oneal contract is up just one year after wilcox. Plus this team would have a huge cap space in the 2010 season when the big free agency peroid begins, and you get rid of a watson/ridenour long term deal…
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:43 pm
O’neal had 2 more years on his contract, i beleive hes around almost 20 mil a year or close to it. you would need to send one of our pg,(they are in need of a PG in every mock ive seen) plus wilcox, plus maybe our trade excpt. plus our #4 for O’neal and #11 pick. With that pick you take either Augistine, or Westbrook. starting line up of augistine, durant, green, collison, oneal would be nice.
Plus the time the oneal contract is up just one year after wilcox. Plus this team would have a huge cap space in the 2010 season when the big free agency peroid begins, and you get rid of a watson/ridenour long term deal…
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:49 pm
asdf, the trade makes more sense if we toss in more of our junk players to even the salaries, and we get Jamaal Tinsley, assuming fine health for Tinsley and O’Neal’s bum knee.
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:51 pm
we would be able tinsley since i would think the pacers would take either Mayo or Bayless with the 4th pick, and they would also have ridenour/watson
June 3rd, 2008 at 2:57 pm
This court case isn’t the important one. It isn’t a precedent setter and there is no reason for either side to settle. THE court case is the Schultz case. The Schultz case is the one that makes Stern nervous - it’s the ‘Brown v. BOE’. This case won’t be the bloody battle that some people think it will. Why should Bennett settle? That’s stupid, there’s nothing for him to settle. And the city won’t settle or there would be a lynching.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:02 pm
“Bayless seems counterproductive with perhaps a shoot first mentality”
Amen… I like Love before him….It’s all about passing and good hands from your bigs for an uptempo game. Fast breaks minimze the need for a set offense PG. This team needs guys that can pass and rebound more than shoot first PGs.
I wouldnt mind seeing the Sonics clean house when it comes to their big men. They have never been able to gel at all. Keep either Collison or Wilcox and get what you can for petro and then draft Love and Hibbert. Both good passers that could possibly play well together. And enough size to defend the low post. Thats something the Sonics havent done in decades… It’s worth a shot , IMO.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:03 pm
“And the stances you take have no backbone… settling for an expansion team after 41+ years of Seattle supporting this franchise!? You … clearly value the NBA more than this team. ”
While I see no need to attack individuals (so I edited out the vituperative parts of the comment above), I also feel that those that think that saving the team jersey and name is the same as saving the team are mistaken. To me, the name and jersey are marketing shams. The team is the long line of players who stood together for 41 years, passing the torch from man to man, sharing the team ethic, the common goal, the philosophies growing and metamorphizing into the current team.
I want the original Sonics. I can continue to watch the NBA (or not), but if we let the team go, I will never again be able to watch the true Seattle Supersonics.
If SOS gives political cover to the City of Seattle to let the original Sonics leave in exchange for an expansion team, then we will get just that, an expansion team. SOS will say they won, the City will say they won, but the real true fans will be losers.
I would gamble and lose all rather than sanction a deal that robs us of our team. Worst case, if we lose, a benevolent owner will buy us a team down the road. Best case, we win in June and the PBC settles with Schultz by giving the team to local owners content to watch games at Key arena.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:04 pm
“This court case isn’t the important one.”
This is so true. No matter what the outcome of this case is, the Sonics will be here through 2010- between this case, appeals if we lose, the Shultz case, possibly more appeals, I just don’t see any way this team is not playing in Seattle at least the next 2 years. All that will come out of this case is some embarassment for Stern, Bennett & the NBA- Which I’m very much looking forward to.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:07 pm
“It is just insanely close minded and downright dumb to risk everything to protect something that has no need to be protected. It’d be like someone saying they’d give you $1 Billion dollars or the opportunity for a 1 in 1,000,000,000 shot in $10 Billion dollars and deciding you will go with the extreme long shot.
At least you have your foolishness…errr, I mean integrity”
Well, I know no one believes this, but winning this case does a great deal to provide a catalyst for future mishaps. Not to mention it will usurp a great deal of power from Mr. Stern in future debates. Lawyers will study, fans will fight, and lawmakers(outside of our crappy legislature) will push forward with policy in hand to protect their franchises. I’m sorry, but this about more than the Sonics, I’m a fan, and I don’t want to see fans from other cities, of other teams have to go through this. With that thought in mind….I will continue to say that we push forward to win this thing.
This has never happened before, and while a judge does have the opportunity to rule in favor of the plantiff and find Bennett and Co. guilty of FRAUD and perjur….the more important part is that there will be no spin factor here. There will be no fillabustering. It will bring a legal resolve to the situation…one that can never be argued with. No grey area, all black and white.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Myk…I disagree with you on your posts today. Some people will accept us getting an expansion team and some of us won’t. We all are entitled to our opinions and feelings. I am one who will not be supporting an expansion team if that is the result. I will be really sad if we lose our chance to have KD Jeff Green and others here in Seattle. But I think you are mistaking some peoples feelings as those players being the ONLY reason we will only accept THIS team. Ilt is not only about specific players its about the whole theft,betrayal,fraud.and evilness of the situation. Clay Bennett publicly stated it was not his intention to move our team. He lied. On top of that instead of helping a city that has supported him for 41 years,David Stern turns his back on us. So its about standing up for what is ours. And you can disagree and you can think expansion is aceeptable but you should stop acting like the people who don’t accept it are dumb and wrong. So that being said Im gonna pull a Clint and say SAVE THESE KD AND JEFF GREEN LED SONICS OR BUST!!!
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Rock, I’ve got news for you. The current Sonics team is an expansion team. We had the second worst record in the NBA, our longets tenured player has been with us 4 years, and is considered one of our veterans. If these players and staff leave and a new one takes it place witht he same name, whats the difference? They are all going to leave eventually. Your tying the team to some non-existant bond between GP and Earl Watson? If the name stays, and we have uninterupted basketball in seattle, I don’t see how we lose. we still ahve the Sonics, and a chance to start over fresh, with no bad contracts. Look at the team and staff now. No one has been around long enough for me to miss them after a year or two. Hell, i already don’t miss Ray or Rashaard, and they were here longer than any of the current roster. If they moved memphis here, called them the Sonics, and we had a bunch of new players, the average fan wouldn’t even notice. None of the faces on the Sonics except KD will be here in 3 years. Why hang on to it if there is a chance we won’t get another team for a while? The team now is like old Yeller, sure I don’t want to take them to the barn and shoot them, and I’d miss them, but a new puppy sure would be fun! And we can even name him Yeller.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Rock said:
“I also feel that those that think that saving the team jersey and name is the same as saving the team are mistaken. To me, the name and jersey are marketing shams. The team is the long line of players who stood together for 41 years, passing the torch from man to man, sharing the team ethic, the common goal, the philosophies growing and metamorphizing into the current team.”
Wow - well said. Wish I’d written that myself.
Rock = the official spokesperson of my innermost thoughts.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Here’s a project that I’m doing in one of my classes about the Bennett and Schultz case. It looks at the fraud portion of the lawsuit. If you do see anything wrong let me know.
Issue: Was there fraud in the form of false misrepresentation?
Rule: Fraud is when a false statement of fact made by one party to another party and has the effect of inducing that party into the contract. Civil frauds involve acts of intentionally making a false representation of a material fact, with the intent to deceive, which is reasonably relied upon by another person. Material fact is defined as that if one party knew the truth, that that party would not have entered into the contract and makes a contract voidable. Forms of false representation include: A false statement of fact that was known to be false at the time it was made, and also a promise of future performance made with an intent, at the time the promise was made, not to perform as promised. If misrepresentation is found, it allows for a remedy of rescission and sometimes damages depending on the type of misrepresentation.
Application: In an interview for a local Oklahoman newspaper, Co-owner Aubrey McClendon stated, “We didn’t buy the team to keep it in Seattle, we hoped to come here (Oklahoma City).” Another email was obtained recently where McClendon apologized to PBC owner Clay Bennett for that statement by saying, “I’m so sorry, the truth is we did buy it with the hope of moving to Oklahoma City”. In another email obtained, Clay Bennett stated that he “is a man possessed” and that the group would “do everything we can” to move the team to Oklahoma City for the following season. This was in response to an email sent to him by co-owner, McClendon asking Bennett if they could move to Oklahoma City now, or if they are doomed for another “lame duck” season in Seattle. All of these statements were made within the time frame where good faith best efforts were required by contract to negotiate a way for the team to stay in Seattle.
Conclusion: Yes
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:24 pm
It really doesn’t matter if an expansion team is “the Sonics” or not to me. I can’t conceive of any circumstances where an expansion team gets made for Seattle. The owners are opposed to it, and the legislature isn’t going to promise money for a new arena based on a promise from Stern.
Let OKC have the mythical expansion team of the future. We need a real team, be it the Sonics, Hornets, Grizzlies, Bobcats, whoever.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:26 pm
“The team is the long line of players who stood together for 41 years, passing the torch from man to man, sharing the team ethic, the common goal, the philosophies growing and metamorphizing into the current team.”
Umm they way gm’s, players, coaches, etc change there is no way this statement is true. goerge karls payton, kemp teams did not resemble last years ray allen, rashard team in philosophy, style, culture, or work ethic at all. I guess their goal was to win but so is every teams.
What are you talking about?
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:27 pm
I still don’t completely understand talking about an expansion team, as Stern has said publicly that their won’t be one(for Seattle). Perhaps he was posturing, or maybe not, but until an actual offer like that even exists u will see people wanting to fight for THIS team as that’s really all we actually have(on the table) to fight for. Perhaps if an actual offer of expansion comes our way, some of us might be more willing to consider it, but until then we can’t really be blamed for our stance, as the stance of the NBA is/has been at least equally(if not more) stubborn. This is a unique situation, as even the so called legal experts have said that the trials are unprecedented, so with that combined with everything else that has transpired, I don’t think that the “save these KD led Sonics” stance is really that difficult to understand(even though I’m not that high on the Jeff Green aspect of it yet)…
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:30 pm
West Seattle Tim Says: If the name stays, and we have uninterupted basketball in seattle, I don’t see how we lose.
I understand that view and half of me agrees that in the end, as a last resort, an expansion team would work.
The conflicting half can’t help but think that no matter what happens here, OKC/Clay/Stern win if these Sonics leave town. If THEY win, we LOSE. Them winning is what kills me at this point.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:33 pm
“the Sounders FC have sold 14,000 season tickets. That already surpasses the Sonics, and is closing in on the Mariners. Plus with it being the new kid in town, count on 20,000 plus a game for the first season. The Mariners are avg 28,000 a game. I would say that the Sounders FC will come closer than you think. ”
Is the 14k season tickets sold the actual number…..or is it season ticket deposits? I find that number pretty hard to believe considering the LA Galaxy have about 8k season ticket holders and David Beckham.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:34 pm
I forgot that Stern later said that u never say never in regards to expansion in Seattle, but until the offer is actually there my point remains the same.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:38 pm
NO EXPANSION FOR SEATTLE!
SAVE THESE KD & GREEN LED SONICS!!!
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:40 pm
According to teh Sounders, they are closing there deposits at a rate of 104%, meaning people are adding seats to their deposited seats. I already paid for mine a few weeks ago, and I was in the first wave, so I assume they are most of the way through. Don’t forget that Seattle is a soccer town, a lot of people play soccer and a lot of people waqtch soccer. Chivas LA and the Galaxy both draw about 10-20 thousand a game, and both are in LA. And as every soccer fan knows, Beckham is a marketing gimmick way past his prime. I don’t think the Galaxy season ticket holders bought tickets because of Beckham.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:40 pm
One thing everyone needs to remember at this point. This won’t be the same Sonics. You can turn a blind eye to the fact that Stern and Associates came in and ousted your team, you can act like the records won’t show that the Sonics of 41 years were moved to OKC, and you can act like this new team will have the same feel as the one of 41 years. Regardless of how bad we are right now, there is still tradition…this isn’t like a Blackberry with interchangeable faceplates….if you believe that they are then you aren’t a fan…and you have missed the whole point.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Laporbo expresses a fear of losing. I do not share that fear because the City’s lease case is as close to a lock as you can get in a contested case. Having some experience with the federal courts, greatly enhances my confidence that the PBC’s case is very weak and the legal climate is against them as well. Furthermore, a loss would merely be a single battle for Seattle, but if the PBC loses, it may crush both them and the NBA. Regardless of the outcome, Schultz still looms.
Nate, if you don’t understand what it means to be a team, then I cannot explain it to you. Perhaps after a team comes to Oklahoma, you will have an opportunity to learn.
Courtsense, thank you for your compliment.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:45 pm
I can understand the need for continuity and keeping the “same” team here. But when people say that a team called the sonics, comprised entirely of players who may or may not have ever been on a “sonics” team here in Seattle, wears the green and gold, has a mascot called squatch (never got that one…), plays in the Key, has Calabro call the game, does not allow Ehlo back in the booth .. EVER (we can hope), lists the 1979 Championship as one of its achievements, can name Kemp, Payton, Sikma, et al as alumni, and is, for all intents and purposes, the Seattle Sonics.. How can that not be the same team? Especially if it is a continuous existence.
I guess one could argue attachment to KD or Green, but how attached were you to other one year wonders that passed through Seattle? I believe KD is a one of a kind type of talent and certainly one to be proud of. However, if he was forced to leave, I would still enjoy watching his games when I could, much like I enjoy watching ‘Bron play.
Additionally, there is too much divide between the settlement is fine people and the people that proclaim the all or nothing policy. I get it, people are impassioned. State your belief and let it be. Too much is going on right now to have to draw sides in a stupid skirmish. Let the court decisions come, then we can debate the outcomes. Right now, there are too many variables or options and the only thing fighting amongst ourselves will do is divide the unity this site brings.
Ok with that all out, those who are preaching the “Love” are starting to bring me around to that line of thinking. Never been stoked on Bayless or Mayo. Like many other situations that come up here at SC, I think alot of us counted too hard on a not so sure thing (getting Rose), myself included. I am not going drink the kool-aid anymore… If #4 is too high to take him, then you trade down, getting a pc. you need in return along with a lower pick.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:48 pm
“Regardless of how bad we are right now, there is still tradition…this isn’t like a Blackberry with interchangeable faceplates….if you believe that they are then you aren’t a fan…and you have missed the whole point”
I’m a fan who wants to follow a local NBA team with my son as he grows up. I’m such a cry baby to say if it isn’t my way than no fair. The NBA is a business. Thats why we have to pay to go.
I want to watch KD way more than an expansion franchise but I want to watch the next KD way more than watching nothing and congratulating myself on sticking to my guns.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:51 pm
laporbo, I see both sides also. I want Stern to suffer, and I want Bennett to suffer, but I still think Save Our Sonics is about saving the Sonics. Not making Stern or Bennett feel our wrath, as much as I would like it. My ultimate goal is to have the Sonics in Seattle. I owuld not want an expansion team either if it means waiting 2-3 years. I want uninterupted NBA basketball in Seattle. I would prefer KD and Green to be on my Sonics team, but if its Rudy Gay and whoever Memphis drafts, I would be OK with it. Not prefer it, but be OK with it. Players change, I would think of it as a salary dump and rebuilding year. Hell, the Sonics did that last year. The main parts of last years team was vastly different than 2006-2007 team. As long as I have a Sonics game to go to next season, I’m happy, and I feel I won. Sticking it to Stern and Bennett would make it sweeter, but doesn’t have to happen for me to be happy. Burning the bridge shouldn’t be the goal, having basketball should be. And if we get a renovated Key Arena and Stern is still commish, unless we handle this with class and dignity, we will never get an all-star game. And I want to attend one here in Seattle as I missed the last one. Sonics basketball is priority 1#, the players are #2.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:52 pm
I’m siding with West Seattle Tim on this one.
There isn’t a single player on this team that I have any real attachment to. It’s not like we’d be giving up our history, colors name etc. We’d be giving up the current players/coaches/front office. GP/Kemp/Nate will all still be Sonics. Seattle will still have its championship. Nothing will change. We would just have some new players on the team. That is all.
Now, what I can understand would be this feeling of us being wronged - like we got the short end of the stick. As the saying goes “That’s pride F’n with you”. No one likes to lose, but you can’t let that pride get the best of you. We’re talking about what amounts to a roster swap.
Of course I want to keep the existing team. I’d be more upset about losing Presti than any of our players. But if I’m faced with a 50/50 chance of keeping the current roster or a 100% chance of keeping basketball in Seattle, I’ll take the 100% every day.
I’m a fan of the Seattle Sonics #1, a fan of the second worst roster in the entire league, second.
-=cysco
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Sooo…I think T basically summed up the Sonics or nothing argument all in this post (Rock said something I will get to as well)…and I want to break it down to show why it does not make sense to me:
Myk…I disagree with you on your posts today. Some people will accept us getting an expansion team and some of us won’t. We all are entitled to our opinions and feelings.
- I completely agree…you guys can believe whatever you want and if it doesn’t make sense to me that is no sweat off my back…but I wish you guys would take the time actually look at the whole situation.
I am one who will not be supporting an expansion team if that is the result.
- As I said before…the only person this would effect is you. If you want to choose something that causes harm to yourself because you think it proves you have integrity that is fine. However, again the only thing effected in this decision is yourself.
In fact, the only other effects that could happen would be negative effects. Say you don’t support the expansion team…and attendance sucks and in 10 years the team moves…you would be one of the biggest reasons for that departure.
I will be really sad if we lose our chance to have KD Jeff Green and others here in Seattle.
- It continues to shock me that so many people are willing to lose NBA basketball over two players who have relatively little ties to the city. I could understand if this was a team that was full of players who have become pillars of the community…but these two??
But I think you are mistaking some peoples feelings as those players being the ONLY reason we will only accept THIS team. Ilt is not only about specific players its about the whole theft,betrayal,fraud.and evilness of the situation. Clay Bennett publicly stated it was not his intention to move our team. He lied. On top of that instead of helping a city that has supported him for 41 years,David Stern turns his back on us. So its about standing up for what is ours.
- This of course is the crux of the argument…but to everyone that believes this with 100% certainty I don’t get why you would even watch the current Sonics. All of the stuff you have described has ALREADY HAPPENED. We’ve all been betrayed, and I am relatively positive that none of us will ever be naive blind supporters of any NBA team for the rest of our lives.
This will not change if the Sonics stay…we will hate David Stern and Clay Bennet just as much. This will not change if we get an expansion team. There will be an NBA team in Seattle with a Sonics jersey representing them. If you want to enjoy basketball you will go watch them…if you do not want to enjoy basketball you will not…none of what would happen after the fact would effect anything in your argument above. (No crying over spilled milk??)
And you can disagree and you can think expansion is aceeptable but you should stop acting like the people who don’t accept it are dumb and wrong. So that being said Im gonna pull a Clint and say SAVE THESE KD AND JEFF GREEN LED SONICS OR BUST!!!
- You are entitled to your opinion…but if your opinion is based on false premises then why should I accept that it is a reasonable way to handle the situation?
You are willing to deprivie yourself and the entire PNW community of basketball fans for two reasons:
1) You want to support Kevin Durant and Jeff Green…two guys who probably don’t even know where the Fremont Troll can be found…and two guys who A: Might not even be that good and B: Could turn around and be playing for the LA Lakers in five years.
2) You feel that Clay Bennet and David Stern have wronged you, which is a scenario that has already occurred. Therefore it isn’t a valid reason to structure your beliefs. We’ve been wronged…we’ve been totally and completely left out to dry and if it wasn’t for a select few people in this Region we wouldn’t even be discussing NBA basketball right now.
How will that change if in 2010 we are cheering on a Sonics team owned by Steve Ballmer and led by Amazing Rookie Prospect X and Washed Up Veteran Y or a Sonics team owned by Steve Ballmer led by 3rd year Kevin Durant? How will we have been any less “screwed” “betrayed” etc?
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:56 pm
I also feel that those that think that saving the team jersey and name is the same as saving the team are mistaken. To me, the name and jersey are marketing shams. The team is the long line of players who stood together for 41 years, passing the torch from man to man, sharing the team ethic, the common goal, the philosophies growing and metamorphizing into the current team.
- Well I don’t get it then…please give me some explanation how the team of last year and this year has any relation to the Sonics teams we all know and love? The jersey is actually what we root for…we root for a jersey that will be filled by a player that will someday lead the team to similar events that we have store in our memories.
I guess I simply don’t understand how our brains are going to look at the team differently if the jersey’s say Sonics in 2010 but it is an “expansion” team. What are we going to do? There is no reason anything would be any different…it is illogical to think so.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Zen Doc,
Good post at 2:15. You hit many points right on the money.
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:58 pm
K-man Says:
What can we do to make sure the trial gets as much NATIONAL attention as possible?
Try protesting outside the courthouse in the nude. You’d probably even get some coverage on those trash ET type cable channel shows that my wife likes to watch.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:00 pm
I just think that it is hilarious that people don’t get what is going on.
We aren’t going to get a settlement unless the League and the PBC 1. KNOW we are willing to take this thing to the mat and 2. Are losing some element of leverage via-the lawsuit that they once held(i.e. there is a greater chance they will lose and are continuing to see that trend continue)
So, again, I don’t understand why we wouldn’t move forward with that much blood in the water. If they are a wounded animal…we should be like a wolf to the prey. Now, granted, I understand that no matter how much a “lock” a case seems, that things can always go the other way….but in the end IF there is a heavy buyout off and an expansion with a guarantee for uninterrupted basketball, and no stips regarding Key Arena in all this….then you take them to bloody end…because at that point even they know that they are going to lose.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Aliment’s article implies that it would be possible for the league to come up with a settlement. Unfortunately, I don’t think that the settlement he suggests in his article is possible or easy. The message from the owners around the league has consistently been that they are against expansion…so the idea of the league allowing Clay to have his team move to Oklahoma and a new team come to our city just doesn’t seem to be an option. We have to keep fighting for our own team with KD, Green, the green and gold colors…the team that belongs by the Space Needle.
Without suggesting any violence, the idea of Clay in a bar-room brawl is appealing. Let’s see if he has as much cojones as our lawyers. Bring on the brawl, baby!
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:00 pm
I can understand the need for continuity and keeping the “same” team here. But when people say that a team called the sonics, comprised entirely of players who may or may not have ever been on a “sonics” team here in Seattle, wears the green and gold, has a mascot called squatch (never got that one…), plays in the Key, has Calabro call the game, does not allow Ehlo back in the booth .. EVER (we can hope), lists the 1979 Championship as one of its achievements, can name Kemp, Payton, Sikma, et al as alumni, and is, for all intents and purposes, the Seattle Sonics.. How can that not be the same team? Especially if it is a continuous existence.
- Hmm, that sounds like the Sonics to me…again the SONICS OR BUST crowd has no explaination to this…apparently they’d rather ruin the chance for basketball for all of us because they somehow think it shows integrity.
If you don’t think what the City has done to even get to this point then you never realized just how close we were to losing the team…
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:00 pm
joshu@, the team is a faceplate. Players move all the time, its the team that stays. Thats why the jersey looks the same on the front, its just the name and number on the back that changes. I don’t like it either, but change happens. All the current Sonics players will not be here in 10 years, but we will. Should we sacrifice our team for interchangable players? Again, don’t get me wrong, I would definetly prefer to keep this team as is, and I would be against taking another cities team, but the bottom line is I want NBA basketball, and if its KD, Rudy Gay, or whoever, as long as the represent MY Seattle Supersonics, they get my support. The team is mine, I just let them play for me until they move on.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:01 pm
I think you guys are all bickering about two completely different things. The basketball side of you are saying “something is better than nothing”, while the logical side is saying “justice must be served”. And I think there are valid arguments for both sides.
The only solution you will all agree on.. is if Steve Ballmer negotiates the Sonics tradition from Bennett, starts his own league, signs Kevin Durant and eventually crushes the NBA and David Stern.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:02 pm
So, again, I don’t understand why we wouldn’t move forward with that much blood in the water. If they are a wounded animal…we should be like a wolf to the prey. Now, granted, I understand that no matter how much a “lock” a case seems, that things can always go the other way….but in the end IF there is a heavy buyout off and an expansion with a guarantee for uninterrupted basketball, and no stips regarding Key Arena in all this….then you take them to bloody end…because at that point even they know that they are going to lose.
- Didn’t most people think the OJ trial was a lock??? Sure is a good thing the DAs didn’t offer him a plea bargain and decided to take it all the way to trial…
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Nate–
I’m optimistic about a lot of parts of our bar room brawl…but, there’s no indication from the NBA front office or league owners that expansion will happen anytime soon. Stern is against it, and even owners like Mark Cuban who have defended our city have stated that they are against expansion. Owners don’t want expansion. It’s pretty simple IMO: if we lose our team, it’s gone. It sucks, but, that’s the way it’s probably going to be.
I’d love to think outside the box, but, this message has been echoed many times by Stern, Cuban, and other owners. That’s why the city hired the big dogs for lawyers.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:08 pm
As long as Gorton and Carr aren’t Clark and Darden, I’m OK with the trial!
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:10 pm
I think you guys are all bickering about two completely different things. The basketball side of you are saying “something is better than nothing”, while the logical side is saying “justice must be served”. And I think there are valid arguments for both sides.
- For Lost fans I see this as the classic Locke vs Jack debate…Locke does everything based on “belief” and “fate”…Jack does everything based on “logic” and “taking the initiative to solve the problem at hand”
Locke people believe that the team isn’t going anywhere so they are willing to say NBA or bust…
Jack people believe that there is no reason to rely on the legal system for a case that is considered unprecedented and would rather take the initiative to solve the problem as soon as possible so they can move on.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Myk:
I’m a huge LOST fan, even thought I hate it now. That was pretty good..
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:13 pm
OK, how about this? The NBA keeps the Sonics in Seattle and gives OKC the Grizzlies in 4 years. But the Sonics must play all their pre-season games at the Ford Center, and the Grizzlies play a few regular seaason home games there every year until the move. Ahh, thats perfect. I don’t have to pay for worthless pre-season games, OKC gets some basketball, and Memphis goes to a town that actually wants basketball. Everyone wins. So that will never happen.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Many have hinted that Stern is using Seattle as an example for the rest of the league. We’ve seen the lies, and the betrayal from he, and Bennett as well. At what point do u draw the line? How much do u let people walk over u, and your community?? It’s not easy to just let people off the hook after that kind of behaviour, and I’m sure that everyone can agree that both Bennett, and Stern need to be taught a lesson. Maybe(if we win our fight), it can affect how they go about their business in the future, and maybe even prevent this kind of thing from happening in other cities. Maybe that’s too idealistic. Nevertheless, there DOES come a point, and time when u have to say enough is enough. The NBA is already suspect with alot of people, so taking it in the u know what is not the most attractive option for many. Could I eventually follow an expansion team? Possibly. Would I ever forget what the NBA did here, or will it ever be the same? No, never, but that’s just me, & I can see the other side too, but I take issue with those who act like one of the 2 sides is somehow out in left field…
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:16 pm
“Myk:
I’m a huge LOST fan, even thought I hate it now. That was pretty good.. ”
Hmm.. wouldn’t have anything to do with the fact Locke’s first name is JOHN now would it?
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:16 pm
When I cheer for a team, I want to believe that the team in turn has some loyalty to its regional fans. Perhaps the international appeal of the NBA has made this idea irrelevant to the league, but I doubt it. The NBA still largely depends on regional fans to support their teams.
Obviously fans’ money is the main reason a team may be loyal to a city. But that is not the case in Seattle. The money is here, there are options that could be developed for an arena deal, but the owner’s attempts to show loyalty by getting a deal done have been a sham.
I do not want to be a fan of a sport that as its normal course of business sanctions disloyalty to its fans. The league needs to recognize its obligations to its cities and the Sonics owners should have made exhaustive, genuine efforts to stay in Seattle before deciding to leave. If the lawsuits are successful, they may force the league to revise their business model. That will renew my enthusiasm for the NBA, since I will know there are ways to help enforce teams’ loyalty to their fans.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:16 pm
West Seattle Tim:
Could you imagine the paperwork to make that happen!?! There’d be so many loopholes!
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:18 pm
Nice analogy Myk, as I am a Jack person already, so that defineltey works for me. I just hope I don’t hit the pills once the team leaves and I find out the “son” I have is actually my nephew from a half sister I was on an island with, all the time not knowing we were related. Oh, and than my girlfriend kicks me out and raised my nephew/son as her own, even though I’m the only one blood related to him!
Oh, gotta go, I think I just saw my dad behind a palm tree.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:18 pm
I don’t watch LOST.
To anyone who thinks that finding a replacement expansion team is an option, find me one article of proof of an NBA Owner who is for expansion. I’m trying to think outside of the box, but, the walls of the box seem pretty steep. Neither the owners nor Stern are for expansion from everything that I’ve read.
The baffling thing to me is that owners would be against expansion so adamantly, but, for having a team in a poor market like Oklahoma City.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Rock, I don’t think I expressed a fear of losing the court case(s) in my last post. I just said that if THEY win (meaning we get expansion or replacement) then we LOSE.
That being said, in this post I will say I have a slight fear of losing the court cases. If the outcomes were decided by common sense then I’d say we had 100% of winning both cases. However, I don’t think the courts deal in common sense. Too many obvious cases country wide went in the opposite direction of common sense. So yes, I do fear the courts, good case or not. I guess you could say I have little faith in the system.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:19 pm
“T” fully agree with your above post. its the principle behind the whole situation. and whilst i dont want an expansion version (if we get one i wont be watching) i also dont want fellow fans like myk to miss out on sonics mach 2 basketball if that is the best situation. im torn between screwing the league majorly and allowing my fellow sonics fans to enjoy a versoin of sonics basketball in the future, and that is what is really pi**ing me off right now. i can appreciate both arguments, and ill stick around for one outcome, i wont stick around for the other, simple as that. i feel completely shat on by the league i used to love, and as stupid as this sounds, if this had gone down with stern actually in our corner then i would feel a little better about it knowing we had the comishs support to keep our team. i right at this point feel completely violated by said commish.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:20 pm
If this team leaves I probably won’t be back here. That is just me. I’m only here because I want to do everything I can to save these Sonics…not somebody elses sonics…an expansion team would be doomed here IMHO. Look at Charlotte as an example.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:21 pm
“How will we have been any less “screwed” “betrayed” etc? ”
Because, if we keep THESE Sonics, we will have KEPT them here. We may have experienced some betrayal…but if we keep this team it only deepens our connection. THEN KD and JG in those Uni’s means more than Rookie X and Veteran Y, then those colors are actually something we can say we have running through our blood.
We may have incurred some injustices….but we haven’t been dealt just yet the fullness of what the PBC and David Stern set out to do. In which case you fight it.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:21 pm
John, if that was even a remote possibility, I would volunteer to take on as much as I could to make that happen.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:24 pm
“Many have hinted that Stern is using Seattle as an example for the rest of the league. We’ve seen the lies, and the betrayal from he, and Bennett as well. At what point do u draw the line? How much do u let people walk over u, and your community??”
Exactly, epx!
I have no interest in keeping the NBA in Seattle, especially after watching the sloppy seconds fiasco in Charlotte. Expansion for Seattle = selling (out) our sonics = defeat. Pro expansioners are just addicted to giving David Stern money no matter what. The only way I’m giving David Stern money is on my terms (through THESE SEATTLE SONICS).
I will not support a nu-Sonics 2.0.
SAVE THESE KD & GREEN LED SONICS OR BUST!!!
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Jacedmo:
Haha as a matter of fact Locke has been my fav character since season 1. Which is pretty funny, because I really do lean on Jack’s fence according to Myk’s analogy.
Grumpyd:
I think we all know what “team loyalty” means in the NBA now. But don’t disrepresent “team loyalty” with player loyalty.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Eric, You said at 11:07AM that the Sonic players don’t matter and it’s just the team and having NBA basketball in Seattle, with which I disagree. You went on to say that I’ll bet that no one here can name the longest tenured Sonic player in history. I’ll take that bet.
I haven’t looked it up yet, but I am pretty positive that it was “Downtown” Freddie Brown who spent his entire career with the Sonics, and I believe it was 13 years with the Sonics. There’s a slight chance that it may have been only 11 years, but I don’t think so. 13 is the number that sticks in my head. Of course, he was part of the 1978-79 NBA Champion Seattle SuperSonics. Let me know if I’m mistaken about that.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:24 pm
I agree with you Stone. If the team leaves, it’s gone. Read my above posts.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Zen, I think Nate surpassed Freddy when you consider his coaching years as well.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Clint u made me think of something else. Maybe our team, our actual players would want us to really fight to keep them here. We know that at least some of them want to stay, but maybe they’re even hoping that we win the trials, or that if anyone gets expansion that it’s OKC. It’s just a thought, but it still comes back to the fact that there’s no expansion offer out there anyway(that I know of), so the only fight for now is to keep this team here, plain & simple.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:34 pm
In addition, if you were a Charlotte Hornets fan, wouldn’t you feel completely slighted by what’s going on now with the Hornets?
Their old, orginal CP3 & West led team pushed the Spurs to the brink this year. Their new expansion Bobcats or whatever is desperately waiting for Morrison to rehab his ACL and hoping May can stay away from the buffet table while amusing themselves with a few J-Rich dunks here and there…
Don’t you guys get it!? We have a shot at not becoming Charlotte!
SAVE THESE KD & GREEN LED SONICS!!!
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:39 pm
“Clint u made me think of something else. Maybe our team, our actual players would want us to really fight to keep them here.”
Many players are prima donnas, and they’d probably welcome even superficial backing.
Ray still gives us support through regularly saying the Sonics should stay, and holding current and past ownership accountable for dissing us (and him).
Payton, a notorious jerk (no matter how much you love him), actually showed up at the season finale. That was kind of huge on his part to indirectly support the SOS movement.
Plus, KD calling The Bennett names rules.
SAVE THESE KD & GREEN LED SONICS OR BUST!!!
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Clint-I was actually thinking that it’s possible that they feel more deeply about this than most of us assume. After all, many of them have made Seattle their home, and let’s be realistic, playing/living in OKC with u know who as an employer can’t be the most attractive option for them either.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:45 pm
Expansion team for Seattle:
To me that would feel like my girlfriend leaving me and moving in with the rich a-hole that I hate from work.
Then months later when I get a big promotion (arena) the skank (nba) would come back to me.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:48 pm
I have no interest in the nba whatsoever if this team is allowed to leave. I grew up with this team, if the league can let these dirt bags take our team I want no part of it, they’ll be dead to me. Maybe if I was younger I’d feel different, but this is too painful and they make way too much money, while all us fans that they don’t give a rats ass about are working our butts off for 25 bucks an hour and barely making ends meet. As far as Cleveland is concerned I’ve talked some Browns fans that say it’s just not the same, the whole situation left a bad taste if their mouths. So no buy out drag Bennett and Stern through the mud and expose them to the world.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Would I accept the skank (nba) back?
I might because I would be lonely, and she would be familiar. But every time we did it - in the back of my mind I would know where she had been. And somehow she would be different, and somewhat repulsive.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:52 pm
To those stating that the BOG/owners have not mentioned an expansion team yet, you are right. No owner “wants” another team in the league right now. But consider another team as the price for making this all go away. It is entirely possible that the Schultz case may bring up some very hard to ignore facts or questions regarding the league and how it operates. If the price to squelch the release of those facts/questions is to grant an expansion team, then you can bet a majority would probably fall in behind the concept. Also, as a result, I could see that team heading to OKC as a result in a swap instance. Pie in the sky, sure, but just because the owners have not publicly gotten behind the idea does not rule it out as a possibility.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:55 pm
A few people here talk about being willing to “compromise” and accept an expansion team as long as it’s called the Seattle SuperSonics and have actively criticized those of us who say that we must save OUR SEATTLE SONICS and keep them here or just forget the NBA and expose the corruption that David Stern has made a staple of the NBA.
I’m sure that some of you are sincere Sonics fans and you think that this is our best chance to keep he NBA in Seattle, but if we do that then we are saying that we are ok with the fraud and the deceit. We are actually condoning David Stern’s behavior and his role in taking the Sonics out of Seattle and that is NOT the message that I want to send to the rest of the world. All the dirt needs to become common knowledge and we have to lead a fight for reform in the NBA and the removal of David Stern. Right now David Stern laughs at us and thinks he’s untouchable. If he allows the Sonics to leave Seattle, then we have to make sure that we are the ones who will wipe the smug little smile off his face.
Another type of person on this blog who could start posting about how we need to compromise and not be so stubborn and accept an expansion team could be a “plant” from Clay Bennett or Aubrey or Tom or certainly from David Stern - especially David Stern, because that’s the kind of manipulation that he engages in. He could easily have people infiltrate here and gain people’s confidence then “convince” us that we really need to settle (for an expansion team) and that is our best hope.
In fact, Stern could have several plants here. It’s something to consider. I’m not saying that Myk is a plant (I doubt it) or Nate (good name - he could be) or CharlieSonic, etc., but this is something that you really have to remain aware of. Something to think about and take into account.
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:57 pm
A few people here talk about being willing to “compromise” and accept an expansion team as long as it’s called the Seattle SuperSonics and have actively criticized those of us who say that we must save OUR SEATTLE SONICS and keep them here or just forget the NBA and expose the corruption that David Stern has made a staple of the NBA.
I’m sure that some of you are sincere Sonics fans and you think that this is our best chance to keep he NBA in Seattle, but if we do that then we are saying that we are ok with the fraud and the deceit. We are actually condoning David Stern’s behavior and his role in taking the Sonics out of Seattle and that is NOT the message that I want to send to the rest of the world. All the dirt needs to become common knowledge and we have to lead a fight for reform in the NBA and the removal of David Stern. Right now David Stern laughs at us and thinks he’s untouchable. If he allows the Sonics to leave Seattle, then we have to make sure that we are the ones who will wipe the smug little smile off his face.
Another type of person on this blog who could start posting about how we need to compromise and not be so stubborn and accept an expansion team could be a “plant” from Clay Bennett or Aubrey or Tom or certainly from David Stern - especially David Stern, because that’s the kind of manipulation that he engages in. He could easily have people infiltrate here and gain people’s confidence then “convince” us that we really need to settle (for an expansion team) and that is our best hope.
In fact, Stern could have several plants here. It’s something to consider. I’m not saying that Myk is a plant (I doubt it) or Nate (good name - he could be) or CharlieSonic, etc., but this is something that you really have to remain aware of. Something to think about and take into account.
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:00 pm
One way to spot a plant is consistant double posting.
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:10 pm
If I’m a plant can I be a Christmas Cactus? They’re really quite nice and have cool blooms.
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Zendoc:
I completely agree with what you are saying. But if the offer of an expansion team is ever on the table, I think it would be complete ignorance to never look at it’s terms. What if there are no protected picks in the expansion draft!?
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:16 pm
“One way to spot a plant is consistant double posting. ”
It would have been mucho funnier if you had double posted this.
Re plants… Of course the boards/blogs are monitored. I would consider them negligent if they were not. I have little doubt that there is at least one or two shills here. Biz is run that way now because it is the information age. Now, whether or not they plant info or not may not be the best option, as Bennett and freinds are discovering with all the emails that came out.
I think it is all perspective at this point. My perspective has a few definite caveats that need to be addressed before the dreaded ‘E’ word is acceptable to me. And, of course, ideally the ‘E’ is headed to OKC and not SEA. However, none of that will EVER be an option if the door is shut completely. I would like to think that most of the people willing to listen to a deal limits it to just that: listening. Where is the harm in that?
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:17 pm
SeaSonics, thanks for that. I think that (post at 2:15PM today) covers a lot of the ground. Would you have added or subtracted something? We need to map out our strategy next.
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:21 pm
john, can we pick durant with those unprotected picks? oh yeah right, hes in okc. im not attached to players per-se, but i do want to see how durants career plays out in a sonics jersey, even if that means he bolts after his contract. he was drafted a sonic, and i want to let the durant era play out without the act of theft involved.
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:27 pm
tlk: you can pick Durant, Amare, LBJ, whoever. Hell, you can even pick from this years draft if you want Beasley or Rose! The sky’s the limit!
Alright, I really need to go home now. Too much fun at work can cause problems.
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:28 pm
To me, getting an expansion team doesn’ t mean the Sonics are lost. If we get the expansion team name the Sonics, with all the titles and retired jerseys in the arena, how different really is it? it’s just like we trade all the players from the current team with the expansion team. The history and the culture is important, but all the players and coaches are gone, what’s left is the memories (like the retired jerseys and banners). What continues the culture and history are FANS like us, we are the one who supported the team for many years! The former Sonics players and coaches have moved on, they may still be supporting the Sonics, but they are supporting the Sonics as a Fan. So, I don’t think having an expansion team means the Sonics history are gone, because we as Fans owns the history and memory.
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:31 pm
Ok I think five’s a plant. Just kidding…
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:36 pm
John, I guess I would have to consider an expansion team if there were NO PROTECTED PLAYERS in the expansion draft. If that happened, then we know that David Stern really has a lot more to hide!
That would be tooo funny. That’s a huge fantasy and, I must say, a very pleasant one.
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:41 pm
4020Vision, I’ll write that down - and I agree that Christmas Cactuses are really cool. And I don’t think that you’re a plant.
June 3rd, 2008 at 5:59 pm
Crazy long thread today. Kinda hard to jump into it at this point. But I’ll give my 2 cents.
I agree with Myk, West Seattle Tim, and the people who are ok with expansion. Note i said “ok”, not that I want it. If we can somehow keep our team, great. But if the worst case scenario is us still having the “Sonics” as our basketball team representing Seattle in the NBA, that’s all I want at the end of the day.
Principles, Durant and Green, sticking it to Stern and Clay, all that stuff is important to me. But not important enough to give up having my basketball team, the “Sonics”, playing in my hometown. Yes, if I can have my original team, great. But to give it all up just because I’m angry and lust for justice is beyond foolish. What’s the old saying? “Cutting off your nose to spite your face”? It’s like if you’re upset with your job and your employers. To you it may be a huge deal and a gigantic matter of principle. But to the people on the other end, it’s just another matter, and you going to great lengths to make your point doesn’t register with them as much as you want it to. And in the end, you just end up hurting yourself more for it.
People say, “I could never support an expansion team”. Well I’m sorry, but that’s just ridiculous. If we still have our team in this city called the Sonics, nothing will be any different. The die hards will for the most part still live it up, and the bangwagon fans in Seattle will still love them when they are good. If we got a replacement team fairly soon, really what’s the diff? Either team is going to be not the best for a few years. And from that point it’s all about how the team is managed. We can get overly attached to KD. But what if he leaves for NY or DC in a couple years? What would be the difference between the replacement Sonics and the original ones?
It’s terribly narrow-minded and short-sighted to make this an all or nothing issue. I’m sorry if you disagree. But it’s the truth. Imagine this situation. You are an old man 20-30 years from now. Seattle is still without an NBA team. And your grandson asks why Seattle doesn’t have a team. And you’re reply is that you don’t have one because of morals and principles. Seriously. The moment time has removed us from the anger and emotional aspects of this situation, when players have come and gone, all these things will seem very arbitrary. It will simply be “Does Seattle have the Sonics? Yes or no.” And nothing more.
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Oh man I have so much I want to say right now unfortunately I am supposed to be in class right now so I have to save some of it.
MYK- my responses to some of the things you have said-
“but I wish you guys would take the time actually look at the whole situation.”
Guess What I actually have taken time to look at the whole situation, I do it everyday. Just because I dont agree with you doesnt mean I dont see the whole picture.
“Say you don’t support the expansion team…and attendance sucks and in 10 years the team moves…you would be one of the biggest reasons for that departure.”
Pretty sure me and a group of others who dont want an expansion wont at all be the reason it leaves in the future. There will many bigger reasons if that happens.
“It continues to shock me that so many people are willing to lose NBA basketball over two players who have relatively little ties to the city. ”
I said it would be sad, I didnt say that was the reason Id be willing to lose the team.
“but if your opinion is based on false premises then why should I accept that it is a reasonable way to handle the situation? ”
First, you dont have to accept anything. Second, how is it based on false premises, just because there not the same feelings as yours? Ok.
And to add to all that, when did the Ballmer group ever say they were willing to buy an expansion or another team???? Somebody correct me if I missed something but isnt this just an assumption? I thought they were willing to buy THIS team back from Bennett if given the chance.
Also some have already said it, but why does everyone keep putting expansion in the solution when it hasnt been offered? In fact it has pretty much been denied. What is so wrong with focusing on keeping THIS team until we at least know if expansion is availiable. And as for taking someone elses team-NO I would never support that.
Sorry Myk, but if we lose the NBA in Seattle, it wont be because of fans like me and others on here, it will be because of Bennett, Stern, Shultz, and others. K bye for now.
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:07 pm
I’ve been of the mindset to keep basketball here. Even before things got ugly, my focus was the retention of the Sonics in Seattle. As we progressed to our current situation, regardless of the back-stabbing, lying, blackmailing crap that has come out, I still just want to watch the Sonics play basketball. And by Sonics I mean a team named the Sonics. And expansion is not my first choice, not even my second choice. I would first and foremost keep the current Sonics, secondly I would allow another current franchise to come here, rename themselves the Sonics, and thirdly take an expansion team, all with the caveat that we have no “missing” years of Sonics basketball. Meaning no breaks in between the loss of the current team and the replacement team. Anything other than a continued presence is unacceptable to me. I would have a tought ime coming back, even if the team was renamed the Sonics. I would have to find something ewlse to do to fill the void, and once I find it, I would rather stick with it than come back to the NBA. So if Stern or anyone else is reading this, take heed. As long as their is a team named the Sonics in Seattle, and there are no waitng years, I will continue to follow Sonics basketball. If I miss a single year, I will be hard pressed to come back once the cycle is broken.
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:13 pm
West Seattle Tim, You are probably correct about Nate having more consecutive years with the Sonics than Fred Brown. I was actually just thinking of years as a player, but you make a great point. Nate’s years on the Sonics were uninterrupted from his rookie year until he retired prematurely due to his arthritic knees after 10 years I think, but he immediately became an assistant coach under George Karl and was an assistant for 3 years I think before he was named Head Coach and he was head coach for 4 or 5 years, so that would definitely be longer than Fred Brown’s tenure.
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:15 pm
To quote Bill Fitch (who should know these things), “War is hell. Expansion is worse.”
Accepting an expansion team means accepting one non-top-three lottery pick, and the twelve best 11th men in the league. In other words, a team that is guaranteed to be losing for at least the next two years. I’ve already been through that with the current iteration of the Sonics. There’s no way on this earth that I’m accepting a repeat of the situation as a solution.
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:24 pm
Brown - 13 yrs
Payton - 12.5
McMillan - 12 7 more coaching
Sikma - 9
Lewis - 9
Kemp - 8
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Question for the no to expansion group.
What if we got an expansion team, the same as it always is, except with one rule. Our new team is allowed to pick whoever they want from OKC’s team (our old one) with the first expansion draft selection. Meaning KD could be had back. After that, OKC would be allowed to protect players the same as other teams. The reason I ask this question is simple. If you would be ok with that scenario (It’d of course never happen), that means your “integrity and matter of principle” basically is code for “I don’t want to lose Durant”. I don’t care who the player is. No one player in the history of the game is that valuable to risk not having a team at all.
Because the people who say, “I’ve had to deal with this crappy team. I couldn’t put up with it again”, are full of it. I was a huge Mariners fan growing up as a kid. And it took til 95 to see them successful. But that didn’t change me enjoying all the games up til then. I can remember as a kid getting excited when they made that ridiculous Kevin Mitchell trade. Just like I did when the Sonics got Benoit Benjamin. Yes, it’s not fun having bad teams all the time. And yes, we do very much deserve to see the fruits of this current team. But in the end, to base whether or not we want a team in our city on how good it is going to be over the next 5-10 years is horrifically foolish and short-sighted.
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:38 pm
epx says:
“john, can we pick durant with those unprotected picks? oh yeah right, hes in okc. im not attached to players per-se, but i do want to see how durants career plays out in a sonics jersey, even if that means he bolts after his contract. he was drafted a sonic, and i want to let the durant era play out without the act of theft involved. ”
Exactly!!! Plus has everyone forgotten Kevin Durant clappng along with the crowd during the last game to the SAVE OUR SONICS chant? Because if that didnt make you feel at least somewhat connected to him and want to keep THIS team, then I guess I dont know what to say to you and we will have to agree to disagree.
EJ-
“I do not want to lose Durant.” That being said there is no guarantee he will even be in Seattle long term if we keep our team. So given your scenario above- I still say No Expansion.
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:44 pm
What would a Flip Saunders coached Sonics team look like? Offensive/Defensive style?
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:58 pm
There is no logic in getting an expansion team in Seattle.
We earned our draft picks with our poor play. Durant is ours as fans because we went through so much losing and pain to get him. We as fans have ownership in every aspect of the current Sonics team.
Save OUR Sonics.. ‘Our’ means every yours and mine and every last thread of the Sonics. not a transplanted team like an b-ball organ donor. This fan body will have an acute rejection of any foreign objects.
Save OUR Sonics
not someone else’s “to be named Sonics”..
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:07 pm
Wouldnt it be sweet if Durant and Green testified although it probabily wouldnt do anything. It wouls just be sweet to here their side ya know?
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:08 pm
EJ, im not happy with that, but then im not happy with this whole situation, and as you say it would never happen anyway.
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:18 pm
On Monday afternoon in New York City. A small group of fans sent hand delivered letters addressed to David Stern, Joel Litvin and NBA Fan Relations.
the letter read as follows.
Commissioner Stern,
As long-time fans of the NBA in general, and of the Seattle SuperSonics in particular, we are writing to express our disappointment in the league’s handling of the ownership group’s attempts to relocate the team. The e-mails produced by the discovery phase of the upcoming trial between the team and the city confirm that the current owners did not make a good faith effort to find an arena solution. Rather, they demanded hundreds of millions in public subsidies while offering to spend little to nothing. You defended their demands and blamed our government, and now that it’s become clear that Clayton Bennett and his crew were less than forthright not only with us, but also with you, you remain silent.
Well, just like the NBA Cares, Commissioner Stern, so does silence speak. We can’t see inside your head, but your refusal to comment now that the cat’s out of the bag on the group’s long-held intentions gives you the appearance of an accessory to a high-stakes public shakedown. Seattle fans may have tolerated the incompetence of Rick Sund’s reign, but we won’t tolerate such perfidy.
We are your fan base, Commissioner. We subscribe to the League Pass, buy lots of merchandise (how many people do you know who own a Sonics Horace Grant jersey?), each attend at least 20 games a year, and basically just eat, sleep, and breathe Sonics basketball. Your league certainly is a business, but if you’d like to portray it as a caring entity, a true civic good, you ought to show a little sincerity in your dealings with the fans who have put you where you are today.
Lifetime Seattle SuperSonics fans and dissatisfied customers of the NBA
These fans also thought it a good idea to post this letter strategically on the display window of the NBA Store just up the street from NBA corporate headquarters in NYC.
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:26 pm
No offense T, but that wasn’t me u quoted.
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:31 pm
Zonics…I Love your last post and completely agree. P.S. Does anyone know the answer to my question about Ballmer group being willing to own an expansion team?
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:35 pm
In regards to the post about the no E crowd “cutting your nose to spite your face”, I think it comes down to the fact that they probably don’t think the face is that great in the first place, so their’s no loss in doing that. Not everyone is thrilled with the NBA nowadays, and after these types fiascos were seeing, it’s becoming even more so for many in Seattle especially. I guess the debate has alot to do with a persons perspective regarding the NBA in general, so since people see the NBA differently their will probably be a continued divide with Sonics fans on this one. Again, I think if an E team were offered it might be more of a realistic debate…
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Laporbo Says:
June 3rd, 2008 at 12:31 am e
“OT but awhile back I mentioned the Squatch song by Chris Ballew of the Presidents.
I think Speedcat asked about hearing it. Just ran across this tonight…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVV3tNWEI7A ”
Hey Laborbo - you da man!!! thanks hombre
Ballew is a nutcase!
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:51 pm
It’s not always about what’s right and wrong. The world doesn’t work based on lollipops and smiles. If that were the case, then being so stubborn would make sense because we are in the right. But it’s not that way and will never be so. Of course we deserve what we think we do. That’s not the debate here. And if you think it is, it just shows you don’t totally understand what is going on here.
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Sorry if this has already been posted somewhere. I just saw Brook Lopez only benched 185… get this 7 times!!!! Dude, my little 8 year old sister has more upper body strength. That’s pathetic for someone his size. In comparison, scrawny little Bayless benched 185, 10 times. Beasley benched it 24 times.
For any team hoping Lopez can muscle inside the paint at the NBA level, they’re gonna be sorely disappointed. Homeboy needs to seriously start hitting the weights.
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:07 pm
I’m not sure what keeps comments in moderation, but this one has not ben getting through:
OT: My son, Jeff, told me that they have posted all the NBA Pre-Draft Combine Stats at DraftExpress. Several posters have had some discussion of the stats (some surprising) in a different thread - the ‘demanding JeffGreen!’ thread because that was the last thread where people seemed interested in the draft, or they didn’t know if it was appropriate here. But I thought that I’d let people know about it if you’re interested. Here’s Jeff’s post from earlier today:
Jeff Brown Says: I was surprised to see Derrick Rose listed at only 6′ 2.5″ with shoes. And even more surprised to see Eric Gordon at 6′ 3.25″. I remember reading he was a little short for a shooting guard but most places I saw had him at 6′ 5″. Which that’s a pretty big discrepancy.
Jerryd Bayless measured in at 6′3″ with shoes and that’s what everyone expected. OJ Mayo was listed at 6′ 4.25″ with shoes on, which may be a little shorter than people expected, but I think it was fairly reasonable. Most places had him between 1 - 2″ taller than Bayless and that is exactly what he is (1.25″).
I was also pretty surprised that Kevin Love measured in at almost 6′ 10″ with shoes on (6′ 9.5″). I thought he could have been one of the guys to only measure about 6′ 8″ with shoes on. So even though I’m not in favor of us drafting him (unless we swing a deal that lands us a 2nd top 10 pick). It’s still nice to see his measurements better than expected.
Also, interesting is that Joey Dorsey only measured at 6′ 7.25″ with shoes on. Some places had him listed at 6′ 9″. I wonder if his smaller size will affect his rebounding ability at the NBA level. I still think he’d be a decent pick in the 2nd round.
Beasley measured a little shorter than I expected at 6′ 8.25″ WITH SHOES ON! It’s not too far off from his projected 6′ 9″ status but I wonder if that smaller size would effect his play at the NBA PF position. I’m pretty sure he’ll be fine. Especially if he bulked up 5-10lbs.
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:12 pm
The blog on the TNT is wrong. Beasley benched it 19 times. Love was right behind at 18 reps. Anyone notice D. Rose is only a little over 6′ 1″ without shoes? Mayo came out at just over 6′ 3″ without shoes. Augustin is only 5′ 10″. Granted height isn’t everything (just look at Chris Paul). But a 5′ 10″ point guard scares me. He’s gonna get bullied around on the defensive end.
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:14 pm
Jeff Brown Says: I was surprised to see Derrick Rose listed at only 6′ 2.5″ with shoes. And even more surprised to see Eric Gordon at 6′ 3.25″. I remember reading he was a little short for a shooting guard but most places I saw had him at 6′ 5″. Which that’s a pretty big discrepancy.
Jerryd Bayless measured in at 6′3″ with shoes and that’s what everyone expected. OJ Mayo was listed at 6′ 4.25″ with shoes on, which may be a little shorter than people expected, but I think it was fairly reasonable. Most places had him between 1 - 2″ taller than Bayless and that is exactly what he is (1.25″).
I was also pretty surprised that Kevin Love measured in at almost 6′ 10″ with shoes on (6′ 9.5″). I thought he could have been one of the guys to only measure about 6′ 8″ with shoes on. So even though I’m not in favor of us drafting him (unless we swing a deal that lands us a 2nd top 10 pick). It’s still nice to see his measurements better than expected.
Also, interesting is that Joey Dorsey only measured at 6′ 7.25″ with shoes on. Some places had him listed at 6′ 9″. I wonder if his smaller size will affect his rebounding ability at the NBA level. I still think he’d be a decent pick in the 2nd round.
Beasley measured a little shorter than I expected at 6′ 8.25″ WITH SHOES ON! It’s not too far off from his projected 6′ 9″ status but I wonder if that smaller size would effect his play at the NBA PF position. I’m pretty sure he’ll be fine. Especially if he bulked up 5-10lbs.
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Call me crazy, but, I still think that this whole debate is pointless until we know if expansion is really an option. Stern is against any more expansion of the league and so is Cuban and the majority of the owners.
——————————————————
sonic scott–
We learned last year from KD’s bench press results and his ROY season that the bench press doesn’t mean squat. Brook Lopez will still probably have a better pro career than any center on our roster, and he’d win the starting job next year IMO. I’m fine with the nba draft consensus prediction on NBA.com of us taking Bayless, but, Brook Lopez is no joke. Most people who doubt his talents probably didn’t see him play in the Pac-10 tourney. Did you?
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:23 pm
Kerry said: “Wouldnt it be sweet if Durant and Green testified although it probabily wouldnt do anything. It wouls just be sweet to here their side ya know?”
Oh, that would be precious!
Judge Pechman: “Mr. Durant. Why did you refer to Mr. Bennett as a fat MoFo?”
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:24 pm
“Brook Lopez will still probably have a better pro career than any center on our roster…”
Talk about setting the bar low….
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:27 pm
Agreed, James. That’s seven more reps that KD managed, and he ended up ROY.
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Wow what a fucking great thread!
First off: EXPANSION IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
NBA owners do not feel so threatened by the lawsuits… yet. I think we have a long ways to go before they “get there”. And regardless of how afraid Stern might be, he won’t be able to convince the owners to create an expansion team.
If expansion did happen…which is a virtual impossibility … it would REALLY fucking suck, for like ANOTHER 5 YEARS!! We’ve already sucked ass for 10 years under Walker/Sund. I for one am sick and tired of it.
Add to that eloquent words of epx, glennpdx, and others above who say it’s time to have a fucking BACKBONE and not bend over to the greedy fucking NBA bastards, and you have a pretty good argument for what Clint has been saying for months now: SAVE OUR KD GREEN LED SUPERSONICS!!
Then there’s Vinny:
Vinny Says:
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:49 pm e
“Would I accept the skank (nba) back?
I might because I would be lonely, and she would be familiar. But every time we did it - in the back of my mind I would know where she had been. And somehow she would be different, and somewhat repulsive. ”
Vinny is on FIRE today!
I would add: “and, not so far in the back of my mind, I would feel like a useless piece of shit that let some bastard ass rape me and then didn’t try to stop him from doing it to all my neighbors. “
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:39 pm
glennpdx:
You’re right, that is setting the bar low. He’ll be better than that. Look, if we choose Bayless as has been projected on the nba consensus draft boards of the nba.com site, I’m totally fine with that. Bayless seems like he’ll be a great player, and I really don’t know if I can take another season of watching Watson or Ridnour running the PG.
But, Lopez is no stiff. He’s a legit first rounder who will go between #3 and #8 according to most draft boards, and I don’t consider him to be raw or a project. He might not have a great bench press, and his pre-draft workouts might not blow the socks off of the scouts. But, when you look at the fact that guys like Nate Robinson just excelled in those pre-draft workouts…well, I’d just say I take them with a grain of salt. We took the guy with the worst bench press in the draft last year, and he won Rookie of the Year.
This is one of the better reviews of Brook Lopez that I’ve read. I think it’s relatively objective:
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Brook-Lopez-545/
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Considering ratings and lower attendances league wide. I don’t see expansion anytime soon. Beyond that……we don’t have an arena up to NBA standards…..the NBA won’t be coming here without a new arena. Until that happens there is 0 chance of getting any type of replacement or expansion team here.
I’ve seen a lot better college centers than Brook Lopez turn out to be nothing in the NBA. The bust factor is really high on centers. Especialy when they are taken that high.
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:53 pm
DraftExpress and others are slotting Love in at #5. Presti has mentioned how he’d like a starting lineup of all six foot ten athletes. Reaching for another short combo-guard at #4 seems stupid when the Sonic’s have one power forward/center whom can rebound and defend. Presti has a history of success of selecting star quality point guards later in the draft and he has five more picks to find a more suitable point guard to play with Durant, Green and Collison. I say no to Bayless, Lopez and this crazy notion of expansion.
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Who was better and turned out to be nothing, Menace? Give a few examples. Yes, the bust factor is high…but, I think that enough people saw his potential in the Pac-10 tourney to know that he’s at least worth the gamble. This isn’t somebody who played overseas or dominated the NBDL or something.
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:57 pm
“Sorry if this has already been posted somewhere. I just saw Brook Lopez only benched 185… get this 7 times!!!! Dude, my little 8 year old sister has more upper body strength. That’s pathetic for someone his size. In comparison, scrawny little Bayless benched 185, 10 times. Beasley benched it 24 times.”
But you do know that guys with long arms have a way harder time doing those bench presses, right?
And as Lopez has a huge wingspan(just like Durant), he’s got some more problems doing those things, while Bayless has a crappy wingspan of 6′3 1/2 and therefore hardly any problems to do those.
Also, you need basketball players and not bodybuilders, if you want to win in this league.
And just to get things straight, my order is still Mayo > Bayless > Lopez with our pick.
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Well said Speedcat.
Whilst I would like to see those people that want an expansion franchise over nothing at leats get that, I don’t really understand how people can simply allow that to be alright. I am/was a Houston Rockets supporter until this mess erupted, and for the life of me, I cannot understand how anybody can continue to follow the NBA if the Sonics are relocated, expansion or no expansion, because it seems to me that it is merely a case of saying, ‘Thank you for reaming me, Mr Stern, please have more of my money so that I may be reamed some more.’
That said, it doesn’t make my stance right, it doesn’t make my stance wrong, it’s simply a matter of principle that I believe the NBA will have crossed, and I will not stand by and wait for someone to decide that my team should play in Roswell, New Mexico becuase it’s their hometown, and hope boyond hope that just maybe the NBA will deem me worthy enough to have an expansion franchise.
As to those people that would and will be able to support an expansion franchise, then I’m sure you have your reasons and beliefies for doing so, and I hope that, for the sake of you yourself- and NOT the NBA as it stands today-, that you are able to make it succesful.
However, I do not agree with Myk’s assertation that those that refuse to support an expansion team will be responsible for it’s failure- you’re pointing the finger at the wrong people. If an expansion franchise fails, it will be because Stern failed to actually do his job by allowing the disenfranchising and alienation of fans in the Seattle market in the first place. It’s exactly the same as saying the Bobcats are struggling because of the fans, when it fact it’s simply because the NBA screwed up in the first place.
The NBA needs people to be fans to survive, but at the end of the day, people don’t need to be fans to do the same. There are better things I could be spending my time and money on than a corrupt entity that doesn’t care about the people that support it.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:01 pm
I’m pretty certain if Stern the Impaler deigns to grant us an expansion franchise, there will assuredly NOT be uninterrupted play. Even though it would mean he was conceding to eventual defeat, it would be his way of saving face and tweaking the hardcore fans who thought they could leverage every aspect of the deal. Then what? Is SOS going to issue an “our way or the highway” ultimatum to Nickels and the other politicians or even more importantly, to Ballmer & Co.? I mean, let’s not forget who we are here. We are an advocacy group but in order to be effective we have to be realistic about our options. We may not be able to get exactly what we want but if we try, we’ll get what we need.
Also a belated apology for anything negative I may have said about the Governor. Zendoc’s eloquent post convinced me that she indeed has been working behind the scenes to broker a solution. What do you expect her to do, hold a gun to the Lege’s head? I’m willing to cut her some slack to prove she can get the votes in line when the time is right.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:05 pm
phenom–
I’m not sure if Presti really still has that dream of an all 6′10 lineup. I thought he gave that up once Rashard left the team. Plus, there’s the idea the Presti was widely given credit for discovering Tony Parker’s talent out in San Antonio. I don’t think he’ll hesitate on Bayless if he doesn’t see anybody else he likes in the draft. I don’t consider him “another short combo guard”…
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:06 pm
You’re right. Benchpress isn’t that important. But if you’re a 7 footer who’s over 250 lbs. you should be able to do more than 7 reps. How in the hell can you muscle down in the post with weak upper body strength like that. Kevin Durant’s benchpress didn’t matter because he’s a SG/SF. But it’s more important for a center who will be bangin’ down low against the beasts.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:17 pm
SpeedCat- great post lol! I think a few people are on fire tonight! Whats ridiculous is were debating over something thats not an option! Goodnight everyone.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:19 pm
When I think of centers who turned out to be busts, I think of guys like Olawakandi (if I spelled his name correctly). The problem with the draft is that some scouts are constantly making player comparisions and looking for the next so-and-so. I think that some scouts might have been hoping for the next Olajawon in Olawakandi…a pretty unfair expectation considering that Olajawon was one of the most relentless centers ever IMO. He could jump for offensive rebounds and then had that sick fade away or those double moves that only guards have.
I don’t think Brook Lopez will be the most amazing center ever, but, he’ll just surprise people because people haven’t heard of him that much or seen him play. He just does the fundamentals well…splitting the double team, the pick and roll, relatively high release. He’s not going to be dominant, but, he’ll surprise people. He seems like the type of player that a team like Utah gets and then Jerry Sloan makes into a very solid player, and then other teams start saying, “Damn, why didn’t we notice him?” Well, probably because he’s a rock-solid player without a hyped up hip-hop YouTube video.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:20 pm
Menace
for your earlier thread. Last I checked the sounders season ticket deposits were 16,200. Just for your information
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Here is what I think. Those of you who will give up the NBA if Seattle is given an expansion team, I am sorry that you feel that way, but your place will be taken pretty quickly by someone else.
I suffered through the Behring years, worked with Save Our Seahawks, made trips down to Olympia to support Paul Allen’s push for a new stadium, cried when the trucks left Kirkland for SoCal, celebrated when they came back and loved being in QWest for the opening game. I sat in the Kingdome, Husky Stadium and even QWest when there were many empty seats. I remember when fan favorite, Jon Kitna, was given his walking papers, and we traded for some guy that no one knew named Matt Hasselbeck.
After many years of a lot of misery, it was great to finally have an owner who cared. That once non-existent season ticket waiting list now is thousands of names long.
So, I guess what I am saying is that you might be giving up on something that you will later really regret. Standing in QWest with confetti coming down on me while celebrating a trip to the Super Bowl was more than awesome. All those years of being the laughingstock of the NFL were behind us, and it was party time.
Having a good ownership group like the Ballmer group can and will make you not only forget these bad days, but also that we may have to swallow our pride and accept whatever those in power work out for the city of Seattle.
Good days can come again to the NBA fans of Seattle. It it is up to you to stay on the boat or jump off. However, a Ballmer ownership group will bring in the fans, old or new.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:28 pm
I wonder how much Durant can bench press now?
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:28 pm
sonicscott–
Forget about the bench for a moment…have you watched him play?
Plus, you can’t argue that the bench is important for centers but, not shooting guards. What about when KD has to battle with Kobe or McGrady? Those aren’t physical battles? All I’m saying is that the bench press is no barometer for someone’s performance in the league.
Oden benched more than KD…then he hurt his knee and went out for the season. Robert Swift is the strongest player on our team…too bad he doesn’t see any floor time. You can’t draft a guy based on how much he benches…
If your sister could bench more than Lopez, does that mean that she’s at hoops?
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:29 pm
typo: “good at hoops”
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:30 pm
“Who was better and turned out to be nothing, Menace? Give a few examples. Yes, the bust factor is high…but, I think that enough people saw his potential in the Pac-10 tourney to know that he’s at least worth the gamble. This isn’t somebody who played overseas or dominated the NBDL or something.”
arguably……..
Olden Polynice
JR Reid
Eric Montross
Chris Mihm
Stacey King
Felton Spencer
Cherokee Parks
Joel Pryzybilla
Lorenzen Wright
Adonal Foyle
Channing Frye
Shelden Williams
I’m not necessarily saying that these guys are bad players. But I think most people would agree that they never should have been drafted as high as they were taken.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:35 pm
wherearemyrings,
SOS is fighting for “continuous NBA presence” in this area. Griff and I are among the few SOS core who personally feel that expansion would be a total bust. I work with SOS on the goal of “continuous NBA presence” and try not to let my personal feelings get in the way.
I agree that expansion, in the unlikely event that it could occur (your scenario may be the likeliest I’ve heard yet), would most certainly not include continuous NBA presence here. Among it’s other negatives.
Was that a Rolling Stones song you quoted, “…try.. get what you need…”?
I need a beer. How hard to I have to try? It’s raining outside. WTF happened to Summer?
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:35 pm
“for your earlier thread. Last I checked the sounders season ticket deposits were 16,200. Just for your information”
I think that is great and personally can’t wait to go watch games. But there is a big difference between a “deposit” and “season tickets”. The deposit amount isn’t that much in the grand scheme of things.
Toronto had the most season tickets sold this past season at around 16k. The Galaxy had around 8k. If the Sounders have 14k so far….thats phenomenal. I hope they do well……but I’ll believe it when I see it. David Beckham is the biggest draw in the MLS…….the Galaxy had 8k season tickets? I just think its hard to believe that a team with no players yet has that many season tickets sold.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:37 pm
NO ARENA = NO EXPANSION
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:40 pm
If Ballmer’s group is involved in any way, whether by retaining this present team (which by the way, isn’t any better than an expansion team) or an expansion team, there will be a new arena (probably a renovated and expanded Key Arena).
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:40 pm
At the moment, with our first round picks, first and foremost I’d like it if we could trade up to #2.
But if not, with our number 4, if he is there, we have to go with OJ. If not, I wouldnt be too upset with Brook Lopez. He is an upgrade over what we have at centre now.
Other than that, trading down and taking Love a little lower than #4 wouldnt be too shabby.
I’m not convinced Bayless is what we need to become a better team. He seems like he could run the point, but is more of an undersize SG. I am convinced we could use OJ more effectively. Im willing to bet OJ will be better at running the point than Bayless, and although they both like to score, I think OJ is the smarter player and therefore the better pick in the long run. His superior defense should be enough to warrant him going higher than Bayless anyway.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Thank u speedcat with your expansion is NOT GOING TO HAPPEN…yet post.
EJ since u’re saying I totally don’t understand what’s going on here please explain to me where I’m so off at, and please be specific…
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:44 pm
I know someone who plays on the Galaxy team.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:45 pm
I have faith in Presti though to make some trades and move our second first round pick a little higher to get a better quality player.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:47 pm
I would tend to agree that those guys did not meet expectations..and you didn’t mention Olawakandi…another. It is definitely a risk to take a center high. I would tend to agree with that. But, I don’t think that all of those centers on that list were necessarily more talented than Brook coming out of college. But, I do see your point.
On the flip side, finding a good center is tough…and once you do they are tough to trade for. Having teams like the Lakers land a player like Gasol is a rarity. Somebody will take a chance on Lopez, and I think he’ll make the all-rookie team. I don’t expect him to be the type of player who has a top selling jersey or shoe. He’ll just be solid IMO.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Guess Who, that is a fine post. Our difference is that I play to win. I expect Seattle to win if they play the game out. If we “settle” for less than winning, then we will not win.
I am not willing to forfeit the original Sonics without a fight. I plead with everyone to stand together. Set aside your fear of losing. Let’s face our foes who seek to steal our team and heritage. We need to stand firmly with Schultz and the City of Seattle as they fight these battles in the court of law on our behalf.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Two stories, both completely off topic.
I see that Chris Wilcox has been arrested on concealed gun charges, the second time he has been arrested for this.
In other sports, I find it interesting that hardly anyone mentioned that the Spokane Chiefs are the Memorial Cup champions. It’s huge news here in Canada since it’s a very prestigious title.
Also, next winter you guys should be watching professional lacrosse in Seattle with Bob Whitsett as owner. I’m sure you will fall in love with the NLL(National Lacrosse League), which is extremely exciting and action packed.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:00 pm
My bad EJ, I reread your post and u said if…, then I totally don’t understand…. However, I think it’s pretty clear though from my posts that I realize that it’s more than just an issue of right, and wrong(to some), and I’ve gone out of my way to concede that I can see both sides. Even though it’s all hypothetical until an actual offer for an e team is on the table anyway…
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:02 pm
This is retarded. Who decided to make the debate about whether or not expansion is possible or likely to happen? That has nothing to do with what Myk and the other guys were debating. That debate was whether or not you would settle for an expansion team IF offered. Of course if it isn’t offered, you then fight like hell for this team. That’s the most obvious, non-question ever. Where the expansion question would come into play is if the NBA was so affraid of the suits, that regardless of whether it wants to do it or not, it feels that it’s the only way they avoid a terrible specticle and potential loss. IF that were to happen, then it is a question. And that’s what we were talking about. That is when you have to ask yourself if you are so stubborn and stuck on sticking it to Stern and Clay, that you would give up basketball forever because you can’t have it exactly how you want. Sometimes in life you have to make deals that aren’t as fair as you’d like. But you do so, because if you didn’t, you’d be even worse off. But whatever. People are going to think what they want. It’s STUPID to argue this. At the end of the day, we all want to fight for saving our team. And also at the end of the day, whatever happens (expansion or not), the decision is going to be out of our hands. All we have the power to do is voice our support for keeping the team here. To think that we have any say in anything beyond showing our support for basketball in Seattle is foolish, as well as a waste of our time. There is zero reason to be fighting with each other here. It’s Sonics in Seattle or not. That is the only question.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:07 pm
Yeah EJ, but the point is that an exp team hasn’t been offered which makes it even more “stupid” to argue about, and please, where was it specified that the debate was about “IF”…?
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Thanks glennpdx, you gave me a really good laugh with this post. Somehow I found it very amusing:
glennpdx Says:
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:24 pm
“Brook Lopez will still probably have a better pro career than any center on our roster…”
Talk about setting the bar low…. !!!!
Nice!
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:31 pm
NBA will not expand while there are failing teams in failing markets. The Griz, Bobcats, and let’s see the Hornets support in the fall, hard to make a new team and put it into a productive market, a market contributing to the league revenue stream, while a few are in trouble.
If I could line up the Griz and have them go to OKC in 2010, and I got Key Arena remodeled, I think that would solve 3 problems.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:44 pm
T at 3:07 & Rock a few time before….
I totally agree. Go “All IN” to save THIS sonics team or bust.
I know there is disagreement on this among many loyal sonics fans - the discussion is good - interesting & I respect others who just want NBA hoops with Sonic uniforms etc.
But for me… It’s not just about seeing Jeff Green & KD > I simply will not support a league that would get away with the level of hypocrisy, manipulation and corruption that would be associated with actually pulling off such a move of this team to OKC.
Negotiate along the way - you bet - try to broker a solution with Stern & Clay - sure. But when push comes to shove > if they are willing to offer an expansion team I say refuse it and tell them give it to Clay. If this costs us a team - so be it.
Keep this team or let the NBA go.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:50 pm
Not usre if this was posted above, but new tidbits from the PI and times.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/365719_trial04.html
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:51 pm
wherearemyrings, Thank you for the compliment. You surprised me with that comment because I think that my post about Governor Gregoire was several threads ago. Howard Schultz also had nothing but compliments for Governor Gregoire, but not so much for several of the other politicians.
“Also a belated apology for anything negative I may have said about the Governor. Zendoc’s eloquent post convinced me that she indeed has been working behind the scenes to broker a solution. What do you expect her to do, hold a gun to the Lege’s head? I’m willing to cut her some slack to prove she can get the votes in line when the time is right.” - wherearemyrings
I agree completely with that. I’m just concerned that we’re not placing blame where it does not belong and that we recognize who are true allies are. If Governor Gregoire had a conversation with Howard and strongly suggested that he consider bringing suit against PBC, she may have done more in that one act to help us keep the Sonics in Seattle than anyone else has so far - with the possible exception of Brian Robinson.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Prediction…..
1. Sonics win the lease case (Or it settles in favor of Seattle before the trial - Clay is going down either way)
2. Clay & Stern are now staring into the reality of 2 years in Seattle for sure - mayne longer is Howard’s case drags out & maybe even losing howard’s case.
3. In the face of this - clay buckles and Stern folds > they negotiate a sale to Ballmer this summer or next fall.
Bottom line…. I think Stern & clay are bluffing - they will not endure 2 years of lame-duck sonics in Seattle while risking so much downside with the howard case.
See you at the Key in November!
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:03 pm
On my last post in the last paragraph, the second sentence should read: ” … we recognize who OUR true allies are.”
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:06 pm
“Our difference is that I play to win.”
You can win and still lose everything.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Guess Who, I have put myself on the line and lost my life savings twice. But I didn’t lie or cheat (or declare bankruptcy). And I did not lose everything - just all my money, not my integrity or my self-respect. I lost material things, but I came out a winner.
This is not about keeping the NBA in Seattle. It’s about keeping the Seattle Sonics in Seattle. This is a battle against liars and cheaters who are stealing a part of our heritage, something we can leave our children with value, a team that can rally the spirits of our region and instill pride in our City and state.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:31 pm
OT: NBA.com now has moved Jerryd Bayless up to #3 on their Mock Draft - being picked by Minnesota and HoopsWorld.com has Jerryd Bayless going to #2 to Miami, which I seriously doubt. Several other Mock Drafts have OJ Mayo going at #3 and NBA.com notes that both Brook Lopez and Kevin Love are slipping some in the consensus Mock Draft, but doesn’t say why. Kevin Love looked pretty good on the Combine drills and measurements but Brook Lopez not so much, except for being a true 7-footer.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:37 pm
James B,
Yes, I saw about 8 or 9 Stanford games last season, so I have seen Brook play. He’s got a nice little shot and some decent moves in the post. He’s not a great rebounder or shot-blocker, so if Presti is wanting defense out of the 5 spot, you’re not gonna get much with Brook. I think he’ll be an average NBA center. Definitely an upgrade from what we have now. I’m just not sold on him at the #4 spot.
I still think he’s a gamble. The guy just doesn’t impress me. But I could be wrong. I thought the Magic were idiots a couple years ago for taking Dwight Howard over Emeka Okafor. I was dead wrong on that one.
June 3rd, 2008 at 11:54 pm
IF we arent gonna get an arena for THE SUPES there is no way in hell we’ll get one for an expansion team let alone the wack ass Grizzlies.
NBA would never come back to Seattle if the SUPES left.
June 4th, 2008 at 12:10 am
Rock said:
“This is not about keeping the NBA in Seattle. It’s about keeping the Seattle Sonics in Seattle. This is a battle against liars and cheaters who are stealing a part of our heritage, something we can leave our children with value, a team that can rally the spirits of our region and instill pride in our City and state.”
Pay attention, Sonics fans: Brother Rock has the floor, and he’s speaking from the heart.
Rock, you are my new hero - I count 7 valid points in this single quote.
June 4th, 2008 at 12:21 am
Speaking of liars and cheaters…
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/365723_impostor04.html
I’m guessing he’s originally from OKC.
June 4th, 2008 at 12:42 am
EPX, Of course the argument was about IF. It always was about IF. Because it wouldn’t exist otherwise.
June 4th, 2008 at 12:45 am
Laporbo-IS THAT BEANTOWN???
June 4th, 2008 at 12:52 am
“The Sonics filed several motions Tuesday, too, asking Pechman to allow a survey showing the Sonics rank third in popularity behind the Seahawks and Mariners among Seattle sports fans; as well as evidence regarding the PBC’s efforts to find a new arena in the region.”
This is freaking ridiculous. As one of the few die-hard all around sports fans in Seattle, and having grown up and witnessing the bandwagon fans jump from team to team, I can’t help but laugh at how little that survey means. Seattle is and will forever be a bandwagon town. Does that mean we should lose our teams? Hell no. And furthermore, a good part of that low % for support of the Sonics has to do with what Clay and the Okies have done to people in this town. EXACTLY the reason Seattle wants Mitch and Alexie to take the stand. It’s amazing to me how in each and every turn along the way of this case, how the OKC side is ALWAYS flat out wrong.
June 4th, 2008 at 12:52 am
EJ, I guess were on 2 different pages man. U think I don’t see u’re angle, I’m feeling others aren’t seeing this one. That’s just how it goes man. I personally don’t know where the IF argument came from. I guess in searching for solutions, people planted the seed, & put the idea of expansion out there, but has it ever really been talked about by anyone able to offer it? That’s where I think many of us are coming from. It hasn’t, and so therefore the argument of IF is kind of like putting the cart before the horse. Now for those who are all for it, I can see that they see it different. Perhaps by talking about it and getting a guage of where everyone is at, they feel they can plant seeds, or at least show their own personal favor for it. In regards to this particular thread though, I must have missed the post that clarified that the debate today was only in regards to what if, bcuz from my perspective it seems like it’s more of an assumption that expansion is a realistic possibility, hence the debate. As u can see from this thread though, many people question that it’s a realistic possibility considering the actions, or inaction of the NBA(so far)…
June 4th, 2008 at 12:55 am
SonicsFan91, I just noticed that you asked earlier for feedback on your class project on detecting Fraud. It looks good to me except for your opening line:
“Issue: Was there fraud in the form of false misrepresentation?”
“false misrepresentation” is a double negative as you probably realized. Misrepresentation = False Representation so if Clay and PBC had ‘falsely misrepresented’ their motives and intent they may have actually been representing their intentions accurately and truthfully, which is highly unlikely.
It’s a small point, but I’m trying to save you from writing that on your paper and turning it in.
June 4th, 2008 at 12:59 am
Now the whole Beantown mystery is starting to make sense. I just thought he was an ex NBA guy who was off his rocker. Bitter, or something, but he was amusing at times nonetheless. I know the others who got into it with him are probably happy to get their justice by finding out that he was a fraud all along. As that really appears to be the case from that article. I kind of feel stupid for believing him, although I definitely had my doubts, bu then again I chose to believe Clay Bennett was sincere at first too, inspite of doubts. Wow.
New beantown thread Mr. B? The honor is yours if u want it???
June 4th, 2008 at 1:04 am
Hey EPX-
IT’s cool we are sonics fans who are so die-hard that we post on SC.com late at night. I don’t understand what you guys are discussing when you say IF? I think that Stern will not give us an expansion franchise no matter what and we have to fight to keep this team. I welcome a rebuttal.
Save the supachrons!
June 4th, 2008 at 1:09 am
Then u’re like us 5vs8(if u feel that way). The question is IF the NBA offered expansion would u take it? The debate has been around for awhile, but the reality that the NBA has never even hinted at offering us an exp franchise hasn’t apparently sunk in for some(not saying they’ll never offer it, but it appears bleek at the moment)…
June 4th, 2008 at 2:08 am
I find today’s (actually yesterday’s) discussion very interesting as far as who is willing to go the distance and fight to SAVE OUR SONICS! I think it is interesting that so many people “don’t want to burn their bridges” and want to “keep our options open” and do not want to stand up for integrity IF it means losing any chance at having an NBA team in Seattle.
Whereas all the rest of us are willing to fight to save our team. We realize when we’re being bamboozled not only by Clay Bennett & PBC but also by David Stern and the NBA. We are willing to take our battle stations, dig in, and fight this war against the PBC and David Stern until they back down and allow us to keep OUR SONICS in Seattle, whether they admit any wrongdoing or not. In the face of all the corrupt politics that has allowed this situation to come about in the first place, I don’t see how anyone can say I will take an expansion team called the Sonics if we have a continuous presence here (which is pure fantasy anyway, as many have pointed out) and they leave the colors and history (?) [could they take our history if they wanted to???]??
Just looking at this long thread alone, I started counting who was in the first camp and who was in the second camp (I didn’t have anything better to do tonight and I love to keep score).
In the “Continuous Presence” group we have Myk, Nate, John, West Seattle Tim, Xteve, mrcysco, EJ, Five, Guess Who, Sam K, jacedmo, wherearemyrings, and CharlieSonic, and maybe a handful of others that were hard to tell or didn’t comment. I think we could add Brian Robinson to that group, although I’m not sure why, and probably Steve Pyeatt. If I misunderstood or got anyone wrong, please let me know, and accept my apology.
June 4th, 2008 at 2:32 am
In the group that is determined to fight to SAVE OUR SONICS, see this thing through to its conclusion, and not accept a replacement franchise from David Stern [in the group referred to in one post as "SONICS OR BUST"] we have: Clint, Stone, Rock, Kryten, Zonics, Speedcat, SeaSonics, Mr. Baker, Joshu, epx, courtsense, Vinny, tlk, 5vs8, James B., NY_SonicsFan, JJ, Brainfreeze, Griff, MartinH, bluestreak, T, Laporbo, grumpyd, K-man, callitlikecalabro, JeffGreen!, 4020Vision, Jeff Brown, ZenDoc, Mike Spokane, and phenom I think. This list is almost certainly not 100% accurate because a few comments I may have misinterpreted. And it certainly is not exhaustive - it’s only a sampling from this thread.
There were about a dozen posters or so who only talked basketball (imagine that), so I couldn’t tell which side of the debate that they were on. Just from this thread we have 13 advocates of a “Continuous Presence” of some kind and 32 proponents of the “Sonics or Bust” or “SAVE OUR SONICS” philosophy. I know there’s hundreds more people who regularly post here who may want to let their feelings be known. It’s been a good, healthy discussion and largely respectful of one another, which I think is important. Again, please let me know if I have you in the wrong category.
June 4th, 2008 at 3:33 am
Haha, Beantown got exposed to the world. I always thought that guy was a fraud.
I know people often lie about themselves on the internet, but this guy actually carried it on into real life. What a pathetic loser…
June 4th, 2008 at 4:33 am
The whole thought on expansion is really none of our concern. It’s something that only Clay, Stern and OKC should be thinking about.
June 4th, 2008 at 5:56 am
“In the group that is determined to fight to SAVE OUR SONICS, see this thing through to its conclusion, and not accept a replacement franchise from David Stern [in the group referred to in one post as “SONICS OR BUST”] we have: Clint, Stone, Rock, Kryten, Zonics, Speedcat, SeaSonics, Mr. Baker, Joshu, epx, courtsense, Vinny, tlk, 5vs8, James B., NY_SonicsFan, JJ, Brainfreeze, Griff, MartinH, bluestreak, T, Laporbo, grumpyd, K-man, callitlikecalabro, JeffGreen!, 4020Vision, Jeff Brown, ZenDoc, Mike Spokane, and phenom I think.”
SAVE THESE KD & GREEN LED SONICS OR BUST!!!
June 4th, 2008 at 6:10 am
I think the beantown assumption is a fair one.
I spoke to the guy and he was convincing. Lots of little tidbits of background knowledge that seemed real. Also he never asked fo exposure or claimed his real name. Still the Presti story is too similar…The real Jeff Turner does live in the area.
June 4th, 2008 at 8:15 am
“I simply will not support a league that would get away with the level of hypocrisy, manipulation and corruption that would be associated with actually pulling off such a move of this team to OKC.”
Exactly JJ!
ZenDoc-lol I also counted the two groups for continuos nba and this team or no team. I thought I would be the only one to do that! Also, regarding your post about Gov. Gregoire awhile ago and referenced above, you also changed my views on her. I do still think she could have done more but I appreciated everything you said and it made me look at the situation differently and not put as much blame on her.
June 4th, 2008 at 8:17 am
Clint- I may have said this before but you need to make tshirts that say SAVE THESE KD AND GREEN LED SONICS OR BUST!!!
To anyone who was at the meeting: Im sure you will post the info when neccessary but is there still a plan to have a rally at the courthouse and also a summer SOS bbq?
June 4th, 2008 at 8:24 am
Okay,
In light of this recent story I must come clean.
I’m really not a 40 year old father of 4 Sports Radio Guy who types badly and thinks he’s funny when he usually isn’t. Oh, and I don’t live in Utah.
No, I’m actually Chris Gatling. Yes, that’s right I’m Chris! Just so you’re aware I’ve taken down everyone’s info who has made reference to me being posterized by Kemp. SO WATCH OUT!
June 4th, 2008 at 8:51 am
“Clint- I may have said this before but you need to make tshirts that say SAVE THESE KD AND GREEN LED SONICS OR BUST!!!”
If we could establish funding, I’d be all over it. In addition, it would be interesting to produce a ton and give them away for free outside of the Key on game days at the start of the season for anybody to wear under a “DO YOU HAVE YOUR SOS GAME DAY ATTIRE!?” campaign or something…
Ah, if only the funding were there…
SAVE THESE KD & GREEN LED SONICS OR BUST!!!
June 4th, 2008 at 8:54 am
What is the leagues drop dead date for Scheduling the season?
June 4th, 2008 at 10:26 am
I believe the Idea of expansion came from the Stern himself. With his remarks regarding never getting a team again. He diluted the water to weaken our resolve and make losing this team more palatable to us. Who would you rather fight someone only half heartedly in the fight or someone fighting with their all. On another note I talked with Sten Skaar of the North American on America’s Deadliest Catch trying to get him to have his crew wear SOS shirts on an episode. He said he would check to see if it would be alright.
June 4th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Funding is a significant issue for Save Our Sonics .ORG and Sonics Central .COM. It is something that we need more people working on. Everyone can help, but it would be especially nice if we had someone who had some experience in Non-Profit or Corporate Fund Raising. If that’s you, we definitely want to hear from you. If you just want to make a few calls or send out some requests for donations, that would also be great. Of course, if you just want to make a donation, that is very welcome.
June 4th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Clint- I am not good at this kind of stuff but maybe if SOS gets enough extra donations they could be used for the shirts? Or maybe its possible to get a tshirt making business to make an donate them in exchange for putting there logo on the shirts?
June 4th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
when is the trial?
June 4th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
June 16th
June 5th, 2008 at 8:01 am
I don’t like articles like this one in the PI because it almost seems to be encouraging a settlement. I don’t want a settlement. He can have his own team; we’ll keep ours, thank you very much!
-James
June 5th, 2008 at 8:02 am
I don’t like articles like this one in the PI because it almost seems to be encouraging a settlement. I don’t want a settlement. He can have his own team; we’ll keep ours, thank you very much!
-James