GARY PAYTON!
Posted on Monday, June 9th, 2008 at 6:42 am by Brian Robinson
Why is this rally important?
Because people will be watching.
The league doesn’t like getting embarrassed and if a huge crowd gathers at the courthouse, the rally will rate ESPN airtime and it will be a signal to the rest of the country that Seattle still cares.
If thousands, instead of hundreds, show up it will be another example that the NBA is dead wrong about this city.
After all the negative remarks from the commissioner’s office and from the team’s ownership, this will be the most profoundly, populist gesture Seattle fans can make that they believe the game belongs here.
This rally needs thousands of people to make it work. It really is important, because throughout this process, Bennett counted on a cave-in. He thought fans would quit. He figured the mayor and the City Council would capitulate.He believed he could write a check and ride out of town. Thought he could bully his way out of this lease. He thought it all would be over by now. His team would be in Oklahoma City and he would be heroic.
His group will snicker if only 300 people show. You can imagine the scene, another cool, gray day, a little drizzle and a few hundred people huddled together. The ownership group, the commissioner, the entire NBA will question, once again, Seattle’s commitment.
But if thousands gather, rain or shine, the message will be much different.
People will be watching.
And, if you still care about keeping basketball in town, you’ll go to the rally next Monday and cheer Payton and McDaniel, the same way you cheered them when they used to thrill us on the floor, when there never was a doubt that the Sonics belonged to Seattle.
We need people to attend this event. Invite your friends, family, etc. Come out and see Sonics Legends and get this city excited to join you. Flyers will be availble shortly. Plan on helping with distribution.
June 9th, 2008 at 7:06 am
Seattle is on the door step of the most important case in pro sports history. EVERY city and team’s lease for the next 100 years will be affected. This might be the most compelling “Reality TV show” we’ll ever see!
June 9th, 2008 at 7:39 am
Kelly doesn’t do Seattle any favors.
Sets a very high bar of “thousands” or its a failure.
June 9th, 2008 at 7:47 am
I almost forgot pretrial motion rulings today…im a little nervous
June 9th, 2008 at 7:48 am
It would be so incredible to have THOUSANDS of people there. Just think about it. We would be making history and we would really start the process of embarassing the NBA into doing something to remedy the situation. We owe it to Clay Bennett to show him that he can’t bully us into submission. We have to stand up and be counted and fight back. It’ll still make history if only 4 or 500 of us show up, but how much more of a statement will we be making and how much more press coverage will we get if we have 4 or 5,000 people there chanting “Save Our Sonics” one week from today? It gives me goose bumps just thinking about that.
“SAVE THESE KD, JEFF GREEN, & NICK COLLISON-LED SONICS!”
.
June 9th, 2008 at 7:57 am
T, did you see my question to you at the bottom of the last thread? I asked if you and your daughter were at the Christine Gregoire “Save Our Sonics” rally or not?
Also, I wouldn’t waste time worrying about the Judge’s rulings. First of all, we have no control over them, and secondly, I just don’t think it matters that much who gets to testify or what evidence is admitted and what isn’t. She’s going to try to be fair. I could be wrong about that but let’s just wait and see how it plays out.
June 9th, 2008 at 8:02 am
Count me in
June 9th, 2008 at 8:03 am
ZenDoc…you are right.ill try to stop worrying so much. But I didn’t see your last question…we were not at the last rally. Was that the one in olympia? I believe I was working but we will for sure be there monday in our sonics gear!
June 9th, 2008 at 8:13 am
booboo44, Steve Kelley has thrown down the gauntlet. He’s issued a challenge and he’s right. It’s about time we set the bar high. Do we want a major event that will draw a lot of national attention or do we want to wimp out and say “well we got the 600 faithful anyway”. I think we need to respond. We need to show that we’re up to the challenge of making this event a major success - THE CRITICAL SONICS RALLY among Sonics rallies. Let Seattle be heard nationally. We want OUR SONICS to STAY IN SEATTLE!!!!!!
June 9th, 2008 at 8:18 am
Here is the facebook event I created for this.
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=27640869360
June 9th, 2008 at 8:25 am
What we all need to start thinking about is how do we go about getting 5,000 people to show up at the Federal Courthouse a week from today? A lot of people like to set the bar low and say if we get 500 people that will be a major success, and, while it’s true that it’s some kind of success, I disagree with INTENTIONALLY setting the bar low so that you can SAY you had a successful rally and no one feels like they failed.
Instead of playing it safe, we need to set the bar high and stretch ourselves and everyone needs to take action to assure that we wil have thousands of people there. Let’s have a lively discussion about what we can do to assure thousands show up, then let’s go about doing it. Of course, KJR is an important piece, but it’s not the only piece. But a few KJR interviews with Brian Robinson, Steve Pyeatt, Paul Schneiderman, Xavier McDaniel, Gary Payton, Gus Williams, etc., etc. will go a long ways towards building support. I think we need to be on all the shows every day if possible between now and then. Time is short.
June 9th, 2008 at 8:30 am
On the GP note, if you can’t make the event, maybe you can buy his shoes! Just listed this morning, Gary Payton custom autographed Air Jordans!
http://stores.ebay.com/Save-Our-Sonics
June 9th, 2008 at 8:30 am
No skits.
That is all.
June 9th, 2008 at 8:36 am
SeeJ, OK, OK. I get it, already. 98% of the people here hate skits and don’t think much of the fine arts either. I would not have done a skit anyway. I would have supported someone else if we had a drama club here or something.
June 9th, 2008 at 8:36 am
SeeJ, hopefully we have so many people we cant do anything but try to breath and not get crushed!
June 9th, 2008 at 8:40 am
Realistically, how many people can you squeeze onto the Federal Courthouse lawn? 5,000? 10,000? What’s the biggest rally that’s ever been held there - does anyone know? Or even one of the biggest in terms of numbers?
June 9th, 2008 at 8:41 am
It’s going to be crazy. I hope I can go. I might be starting a new job that day, though
Although I’ve already made sure that at least 10 of my friends/family will be there.
June 9th, 2008 at 8:44 am
Doc, the courthouse courtyard is pretty small. I would be surprised if a few thousand could even fit. There is a flat portion, and than there are the steps that go down to 7th. The plus side is if we get 500 people, it will look like alot. A few thousand will look massive. If there were 10,000 people there, we would have to move to westlake, as there is no way everyone could fit.
June 9th, 2008 at 8:46 am
CLOG THE STREEEEEETS!!!
SPD in riot gear? I’d call that a success. MAKE IT HAPPEN, SEATTLE!
June 9th, 2008 at 8:46 am
KOMO 1000 just said the Rally is today?
Is there something going on at the Courthouse right now? Cause the Media is apparently there already
June 9th, 2008 at 8:47 am
Any plan to get this rally publicized on KJR, KRKO or any other local media outlets?
Let’s hope that this event can get some media coverage and people will show up… God knows you can get 50,000 for hempfest….
June 9th, 2008 at 8:47 am
Are we getting a little a head of ourselves talking about 10,000 people?
I could see a couple thousand but 10,000 at that time on a Monday. I’m not so sure.
June 9th, 2008 at 8:51 am
10,000?! Yeesh… not gonna happen. There’s aiming high, and then there’s setting yourself up for failure. The Sonics had trouble getting 10k people in the doors at the key.
June 9th, 2008 at 8:51 am
“Are we getting a little a head of ourselves talking about 10,000 people?”
No kidding.
Of course I remember the first event where there were slightly less than that…
June 9th, 2008 at 8:53 am
Are we talking about the new Federal Courthouse - the 23-story glass & steel monster seen here?
http://tinyurl.com/5owqgd
Or are we talking about the Historic Federal Courthouse on 5th & Madison (between 6th & Spring streets) with the big lawn?
That will hold a lot more people I’m sure, but I don’t know if they still use it.
June 9th, 2008 at 8:55 am
can someone please post the flyer mentioned above ASAP so we can distribute.
June 9th, 2008 at 8:55 am
Great article by Kelly. 1000’s is realistic and can make an impact.
When flyers come out - we need to get them to all our friends. I just sent the link of Kelly’s article to 25+ of my friends.
If you have any friends who care about SOS - send them that link.
June 9th, 2008 at 8:56 am
I just wrote this e-mail to Kelly….
Hi Steve,
I just read your article on the Sonics Rally next Monday. This was a GREAT article! Thanks!
I liked it not just because it supports the SOS cause, which I also support, but I thought you did a great job of outlining the strategic importance of this rally. Your challenging Seattle Sports fans in a positive but strong way to get out to the courthouse for this. I think if 200-300 fans show up Stern and league owners will laugh. But if 1000’s come - they will have to at least pay attention at some level. If it gives them even a moment of “re-evaluating” this could be an invaluable assist in the SOS effort if it is combined with a win by the city in this court case. Why?
Because of the memory. The main value of a huge/successful rally is primarily in the memory of Stern, Clay B. & NBA League owners this June if Clay loses the lease case. If that happens Clay, Stern & the NBA owners will be staring into these realities:
1. The Sonics HAVE to play in Seattle for 2 more years
2. The team will likely lose 50-60-70+ Million in that time if they try to operate the team as a “Lame Duck” team
3. The league will be embarrassed, frustrated and nagged by negative PR on this for 2 more years
4. Stern & the league will not be able to showcase one of their brightest young stars in Kevin Durrant because they will want to deflect coverage of the Sonics to avoid this issue as much as possible.
5. The league is still facing the ridiculous reality they are leaving a fantastic, strategic, established & 12th largest market for the 45th largest market
6. Clay would have to apply for a new league approval for a move which could get tough and raise more PR & legal headaches for the NBA.
7. Clay’s co-owners could become divisive and want to sell out.
8. Howard S.’s legal case will become a darker cloud. The darkest cloud in many ways for Stern/Clay & the NBA. This is not because it is a slam dunk or automatic winner - but because it is credible enough to put immense and intense fear into Stern & Co.. Why? Because Howard “Might” win. It is unpredictable and not even Stern can control it. If Clay if found guilty of fraud the costs would be catastrophic for Clay, Stern & the League. If a federal court rules there has been fraud in a 350 million dollar sale of an NBA franchise it is the largest sports scandal in history.
A. Stern would have to resign in disgrace… his legacy is “Fraud” like Barry Bonds is “Steroids”
B. Clay has lost 100+ million and now loses his team in disgrace and is a convicted fraud
C. The league has the biggest PR black eye ever and loses control of the ownership of one of their franchises to a unique court trust - which could influence the sale price in a negative way which would impact every owners team value.
As they face this lawsuit, Stern and the league will have to ask at that point…. Do we really want to risk this just to get a team to OKC not now, but in 2+ years depending on appeals etc..? Especially if the alternative is to get Steve Ballmer in our owners club, stay in the Seattle market, clean this mess up and avoid these risks?
It is the FEAR of these possibilities, along with the fear of a prolonged court cases that is ultimately simply unpredictable, that gives Sonics fans hope. If the city wins their lease case next week there is then some serious reason for Stern, Clay & NBA owners - if faced with these realities - to seriously consider calling Ballmer & selling.
BACK TO THE PUBLIC RALLY ON JUNE 16…. The value is all about the memory….
Why is this some important? I think primarily a HUGE rally with 1000’s of fans is most important because of the memory it will create for Stern, Clay and NBA owners when they are assessing their alternatives in late June. It would be part of the weight that is pushing them to cave in and sell to Ballmer. It would give them greater reason to pause and assess their opponent with more respect. It would be an example of what many athletes talk about when they say they need to go out onto the court or playing field and “Impose our will” on the other team. A huge rally is part of doing this to Stern & clay and in a sense part of breaking their spirit and perhaps causing more division within the ranks of NBA owners and among Clay’s ownership group.
A HUGE rally will contribute to this effort of wearing Stern and Clay down and hopefully causing many NBA owners to call Stern and say something like this…. “David, clean this thing up and clean it up now. We cannot let this drag out for 2+ years and we cannot even come close to risking having one of our own owners being guilty of fraud. The Sonic fans and the city have not rolled over like you thought they would, it is a better market that OKC, and they just put on the largest public rally for an NBA team in history that was not part of a championship celebration.”
If Stern & Clay lose this court case in June a huge rally needs to be embedded in their minds as part of realizing their opponent is strong, passionate, committted and they will not go away. We want this memory in their minds as they make their decisions about how to proceed in light of losing the lease case, which they likely thought would never even reach trial because they assumed Nickels and Seattle would accept a buyout of the final 2 years.
These are my additional thoughts to your article - this rally could indeed be huge in the SOS cause if the rally itself is HUGE.
Thanks again for the terrific article this morning. I hope you will write something on this again next Monday morning as the Soncis story heads to this crucial point.
Thanks
June 9th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Eric E., 2,000 people would be great. I don’t think we’ll get 10,000 people but we ned to talk about how to get thousands of people there.
One way would be through various corporations, especially the ones where the owners are interested in buying the Sonics. Like Jim Sinegal the CEO of Costco. We can write and/or call him and ask if he could circulate a flyer among his employees about the rally on Monday and encourage employees who were not working that day or at that time to attend the rally. It would be better if we have someone who knows Jim Sinegal in our group.
June 9th, 2008 at 9:09 am
Here’s my myspace event:
http://tinyurl.com/524ygo
June 9th, 2008 at 9:12 am
JJ, that’s a wonderful letter to Steve Kelley. Did you send it to any other of the local Sports writers or national ones? I think it would be worth it. It pretty much says it all. If you send it out again, I would just correct a couple typos in it: under #8 “If Clay if found guilty …” of course should be “If Clay IS found guilty … ” and the 4th paragraph after “C.” says “Why is this some important?” which I think should read “Why is this SO important?”
June 9th, 2008 at 9:14 am
4:30 would be close to quitting time for people working downtown. 10,000 would clog the streets around the courthouse and cause havoc for the buses taking people home from work. I am not sure 5,000 would fit in the space in front of the courthouse. It isn’t a big area.
ZenDoc, it is the new courthouse on Stewart.
June 9th, 2008 at 9:19 am
Is this the “grounds” of the new Courthouse? Not exactly like the huge lawn of the old Courthouse is it? How does it compare in size to the Classic?
http://tinyurl.com/6agy7c
Since it’s only been around since 2004, right, how many large rallies have been held there?
June 9th, 2008 at 9:21 am
Are there going to be flyers? I would like to put one on each fraternity, sorority in the U District and at as many bars and stores as possible.
June 9th, 2008 at 9:25 am
How to get 1000’s to the rally…. (It can be done)
1. SOS uses their data base like never before - sending everyone they know e-mails and flyers to pass out etc.
2. Sonic fans call KJR non-stop the next 7 days and just talk about this rally and encourage fans to come - get the “BUZZ” going. Calling KIRO & KOMO and any radio station that takes calls is good too.
3. SOS fans e-mail today the link to Steve kelly’s article to any and every Sonics fan they know.
4. SOS fans write letters to editors and get those in this weekend’s papers urging fans to attend the rally.
5. Everyone on this web site invite their friends & encourage those people to invite their friends to the rally. Personal & Word of mouth invitations will be the best resource we have.
6. Flyers - Flyers - Flyers… Everywhere - hand out to friends - e-mail - post where you can.
June 9th, 2008 at 9:25 am
Guess Who, well if we did clog the streets and block traffic, I guess a whole lot more people would take notice and say: “These people are trying to Save the Sonics? I thought they had left already.”
But maybe it would really cause some people to rethink their positions or join in the cause because they want to feel a part of it - maybe bring back some good memories for them.
June 9th, 2008 at 9:26 am
Zendoc - thanks for the comment on my letter to Steve Kelly. I did not send it to anyone else.
June 9th, 2008 at 9:27 am
It is mostly cement with some trees scattered. 5,000 would look like a huge crowd in that space. At least, that is my memory. I used to go by it everyday.
June 9th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Great thoughts JJ
June 9th, 2008 at 9:30 am
We need to have the official S.O.S. flyer for the rally be available online in pdf format that anyone can download and print and start getting them out there. I thought someone in the core group was working on the flyer 2 weeks ago or so, but I have not seen an announcement of it being ready. I’m not sure why not. If we can’t get the official one, we could start making our own to distribute.
June 9th, 2008 at 9:30 am
Exactly Zen,
U still say we shouldn’t expect to clog the streets though.
June 9th, 2008 at 9:31 am
*I, not “U”
June 9th, 2008 at 9:34 am
“I thought someone in the core group was working on the flyer 2 weeks ago or so, but I have not seen an announcement of it being ready.”
Ever thought about emailing the person you thought was working on it?
*slowly creeps back to hiding spot.
June 9th, 2008 at 9:34 am
OK a couple notes here people.
Firstly worry about getting 1000 to attend before you start talking 10K, all right? With respect that’s just not going to happen. Given this is a Monday afternoon event even with the special draws I really think 500-1000 people is an absolute success.
Secondly the courthouse area is rather small, hell you could call it nonexistent; 1000 people would be packing it in. The ‘old’ courthouse across from the library is not being used right now to my knowledge, the entire lawn area is completely torn up and under construction. The area is much, much smaller, which is a good thing. Guess Who is right, 5000 people wouldn’t even fit there.
What’s with the praise for Steve Kelley? I don’t need him to set the bar for what constitutes a successful rally and what doesn’t. If Steve Kelley says it need thousands of people to be successful then his dumb ass better be there in person. If he is I’ll personally congratulate him. If not I’ll be the first person writing him an email on Tuesday asking why he wasn’t there.
Best case scenario, there’ll be a settlement to announce that day and it’ll end up being a victory rally instead. That’s my hope, anyways.
PS the rally downtown is for the tent city folks, they’re camping out in front of city hall this morning.
June 9th, 2008 at 9:34 am
Today’ article by Percy Allen is really interesting.
However, I found this statement weird.
“The city’s lawsuit unearthed embarrassing e-mails from the team’s ownership, which angered Bennett and NBA commissioner David Stern, who described the city’s tactics as “scorched-earth policy.”"
Well, since the emails were “unearthed” by the city through discovery and made public through the Freedom of Information Act . . . why should they be angered? If they should be angry at anyone, they should be angry at themselves for writing the emails in the first place. The origin of the “scortched-earth policy” lands in their laps.
June 9th, 2008 at 9:35 am
How to get 1000’s to the rally….
Think Strategically on this. Tap into people who are most likely to be accessable to this event.
Who is most likely to attend this rally other than hard-core SOS sonics fans? Think about it….. It is people who can do so convienently. There is NOTHING convenient about getting into downtown Seattle for a 4:30 PM rally. So who can we target to encourage to come who might be most likley to have a positive response?
People who are aleady there!
This means we need to get flyers out all over downtown near the courthouse. Post them in Resteraunts, Condo Lobbies, Office lobbies, anywhere and everywhere near downtown. Maybe hand out to peopel on the street n Monday.
I would “Target” people who already work and live near the rally location to encourage them to come. Flyers is one way - there surely could be others. Be creative. But get the invitation & encouragement and vision to people who are already there.
1000’s CAN happen - but we will need to work it hard and target 2 groups of people:
1. Hard-core Soncis fans… Through SOS data base, Personal invitations, KJR calls, E-Mail KJR hosts, other Seattle sports blogs etc.
2. this group of people who can attend most easily because they live and work near downtown.
If the rally is Soooo big it messes up traffic etc. > fantastic - that is exactly the kind of problem we want to have - if it is so huge we cannot manage it and it just spills out everywhere - great!
Tell people to wear the Sonics shirts, hats etc.
June 9th, 2008 at 9:39 am
Guess I should have included the link to the Times article in case some of you haven’t read it.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sonics/2004465996_soni09.html
June 9th, 2008 at 9:41 am
Im coming from bothell what do you guys think is and appropriate time to leave to get there a little early?
June 9th, 2008 at 9:43 am
Sounds like it would be a good idea for Brian or Steve or someone from SOS with an email list to set up and send out an E-vite for the rally. It would easily and quickly spread the word and location, send reminders, etc., and can also keep track of how many people may be there. Get this thing going viral, gentleman!
June 9th, 2008 at 9:44 am
We can bring old banners, pennants, posters on cardboard (posterboard), etc. and wear all kinds of Sonics gear to the rally.
I was doubting that 5,000 people could fit in there, but I don’t think I’ve ever been there. I’ve been to the old Courthouse for many rallies and Demonstrations and it was very accommodating. I’ve even watched a couple skits there.
June 9th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Anyone with connection to the media…. try to contact them and suggest some coverage for this rally BEFORE next monday. Maybe some of the local TV sports reporters could get “THE GLOVE” interviewed over the weekend so more people can catch a vision from him before monday gets going.
For all who think 1000+ is unrealistic… do not underestimate the power of GP - serioulsy - he is the most loved Sonics ever along with Nate M. - His star power and pledge of presence and support will be a huge help to us.
June 9th, 2008 at 9:50 am
Lester Munson, an ESPN legal analyst, was quoted in the Seattle Times as being of the belief that the loser at the June trial will appeal, resulting in the team remaining in Seattle this coming season regardless of who wins.
“I expect the city to prevail in the trial, but after that I’m not sure what’s going to happen,” [Munson] said. “We can expect Bennett and his group to appeal that decision, and that will take a while. Then Schultz and his case, which is a real landmark, take over.”
Steve Pyeatt is also quoted as expecting a settlement, while others downplay that possibility. The article also reports a threat from Stern against us: “Stern also said he’d lose any desire to help Seattle secure another team if the city continues with its lawsuit and the team leaves.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sonics/2004465996_soni09.html
June 9th, 2008 at 9:54 am
and now this; “Sources with the team suggested last week that Bennett would keep the Sonics name, history and colors if he’s forced to play two more years at KeyArena and incur an expected $60 million in losses. He previously had expressed a willingness to leave the name behind for a possible future Seattle team.”
what a vindictive move that is.
June 9th, 2008 at 9:54 am
T, Leave in the morning!
If you can’t do that, leave by 3:00PM to be there a little early hopefully, although parking will be a problem.
To be sure you’re early, leave at 1:00 or 2:00PM. Are you getting off work early that day or just not working that day?
June 9th, 2008 at 10:01 am
I think the best advice for anyone who doesn’t actually work downtown would be to ride the bus. Thought of posting some of the best buslines to get into that area?
June 9th, 2008 at 10:04 am
and now this; “Sources with the team suggested last week that Bennett would keep the Sonics name, history and colors if he’s forced to play two more years at KeyArena and incur an expected $60 million in losses. He previously had expressed a willingness to leave the name behind for a possible future Seattle team.”
what a vindictive move that is.
- Especially when there is no reason for him to do it…this shows alot about a person…
June 9th, 2008 at 10:06 am
“do not underestimate the power of GP - serioulsy - he is the most loved Sonics ever along with Nate M.”
For that matter, why not contact Mac10?! I don’t think it would be a conflict of interest, especially since Paul Allen voted against relocation anyway
Lets get that star power going guys, any one with connections to current or past sonics lets get them rallying. Having someone like KD there would really get this thing going, as unlikely as it may be. What about Det? Kemp? everyone and anyone who has donned a Sonics jersey deserves a chance to fight for the fans, so lets get that aspect moving as well. Contacted about 25 of my friends and family today, I’m am ready to make it happen guys. SAVE OUR SONICS!
June 9th, 2008 at 10:06 am
http://tripplanner.metrokc.gov/cgi-bin/itin_page.pl?resptype=U
June 9th, 2008 at 10:07 am
Rock - your quote “The article also reports a threat from Stern against us: “Stern also said he’d lose any desire to help Seattle secure another team if the city continues with its lawsuit and the team leaves.” just makes me laugh.
Really, David? When did you ever have any desire to help Seattle do anything? We’re a little too independent for your taste and we don’t kiss booty nearly as well as Clay does, do we? I think that “Intimidation” is the only language you know. Intimidate until they buckle and cow-tow (sp?) to you. That’s what you taught Clay, isn’t it? Bully them into submission - create mass apathy - and it’s worked real well among the casual fans - but it sure as hell ain’t workin’ on us diehard fans!
It ain’t workin’ on S.O.S!!!
You don’t get it, David, we just don’t care about your threats. We see you for who you are and we know your threats are meaningless. And the beauty of this whole thing is that the more you try to show us that you mean business and we’d better fall in line, the worse you’re going to look to the National media. You are in a No-Win situation if you continue to push your revenge game against Seattle. When are you going to wake up and smell the Starbucks???
June 9th, 2008 at 10:07 am
Im not working that day but having my daughter with me I don’t want to go TOO early…thinking I will leave about 230
June 9th, 2008 at 10:07 am
doesn’t Slick Watts own a janitorial company around here?
June 9th, 2008 at 10:09 am
and where is the Reign Man?! we all know he’s spoken out publicly about keeping the team here.
June 9th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Above all, BEFORE spreading the word too far, get the LOCATION right!
The last thing we need is the national humility of a mega-rally at the wrong courthouse.
June 9th, 2008 at 10:14 am
the Federal Courthouse, 700 Stewart in Seattle
June 9th, 2008 at 10:14 am
HAHA! That would be hilarious and sad.
…
But more hilarious.
June 9th, 2008 at 10:15 am
ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE GREYHOUND STATION AND DELICIOUS PHO RESTAURANT
June 9th, 2008 at 10:16 am
Has anyone thought about the possibility of getting The Presidents of the United States of America or even maybe just Chris Ballew to maybe do an acoustic session down there or something? They could play some of their Sonics songs, plus new stuff or whatever. People love music, free shows and a chance to possibly meet another local celebrity. I don’t know them personally, but I know that a lot of people in the area do. I am in Philadelphia right now–i also do event planning and fundraising for a major university out here–so if I can help in any way–please let me know.
June 9th, 2008 at 10:16 am
the Federal Courthouse, 700 Stewart in Seattle
- Can this address (date/time would help too) be put on the top of the Homepage permanently?
June 9th, 2008 at 10:18 am
I just sent this e-mail to all the KJR station hosts:
Hi KJR Hosts,
I want to thank you for the many ways and times you have supported to “SOS” cause. As we come down to “Crunch Time” I would ask you to give some extra energy, time & attention to the Sonics over the next week as we head towards Monday’s court case and “SOS” Rally at the courthouse on June 16 at 4:30 PM with Gary Payton & the X-Man.
I think Steve Kelly’s article this morning was excellent. We need a great turnout next Monday because people will be watching - especially Clay, Stern and NBA owners. If the city wins their lease court case, we want Clay/Stern/NBA Owners to have a memory of passionate Sonics fan support as they sweat out their next steps and decisions. The more visible and powerful our support is at this rally the better because it can contribute to the pressure on Clay to just give up and sell.
Possible ideas for you to consider are:
1. Getting the X-Man and Gary Payton interviewed before next Monday. The more Sonics fans who hear on your radio station “The Glove” and “The X-Man” say…. “Hey Sonics fans - I’m going to be there and I want you to come be with me at this rally” - the better.
2. Take a full day - maybe next Friday or Monday - and make it a “Sonics Day” - dedicate it to the Sonics.
3. Have a live KJR report from downtown Seattle next Monday - do the show from a mobile location near the courthouse - cover the rally in this way.
4. Interview as many ex-sonics players as possible in the next week.
5. Sometime this week, or on a “Sonics Day” - Have a Sonics player “Round-table” - bring in 4-5 ex players/coaches and just have a round-table talk with them about their experience playing in Seattle, their thoughts on the move etc. for an hour or so.
6. Nick Collision - he bought a house in Seattle - he wants the team to stay - he is under contract for 3 more years - See if he will do an interview and express support for the Sonics staying. I know the players have to be careful on this - but that is what could make an interview with Nick most powerful and he might be the most likely to come out as a current player and express support. If you know of any other players who would do this - go gettem!
7. Do some specific and creative Sonics fan “Call-In” times - ask fans to call in and share… (Pick 1 question at a time - have several call in times)
A. My favorite memory at a Sonics game
B. My favorite memory of meeting a Sonics player
C. A positive interaction with a Sonics player at a charity event
D. The best Play I ever saw a Sonic Player make at the KEY
E. The best game I ever saw at the Key
F. The #1 reason why I want the Sonics to stay in Seattle
G. The 1 question they would ask David Stern if they could
H. The 1 question they would ask Clay Bennet if they could
I. The 1 thing they would tell all the other NBA owners if they could
8. Do Some Sonic Trivia Quiz stuff where fans call in to answer a question from Sonics history & get prizes - Sonics T-Shirts - hats - KJR stuff -whatever. Maybe they have to come to the Rally and the KJR table/location at the rally to get their prize. Maybe a grand prize of a chance to meet the Glove or X-Man - or a chance to meet other Ex-Sonics. Maybe have an ex-sonic as the one at the KJT location at the rally who will give out the prizes. Give a ton of prizes out - but you must be present to win - maybe have them come at 3:00 PM or 3:30 PM to get their prizes at the rally location to get people there early.
9. Get Lenny Wilkins involved - he is sincere in his love for Seattle and the Sonics. I would guess he would help - at least do an interview with you.
10. Do an interview next week with George Karl - he is never afraid to speak his mind and he has said he thinks the Sonics should stay in Seattle.
11. Talk up the Rally next Monday as much as possible.
12. Use your data base of KJR fans to promote your activiteis, shows, contest, etc. related to this. Send everyone in your data base an e-mail with the rally information - get the details and/or flyer from Brian Robinson and send it out to them while announcing any other KJR related activities in the next week that are part of the focus on the Sonics.
13. Put the rally information on your web site.
Thanks
June 9th, 2008 at 10:18 am
I hope you guys can get every major Sonic player of the last few decades there. Kemp, Sikma, Freddie, Chambers, etc. This might be our last stand and if it is I’m not going to miss it for nothing. We might be like that band that is playing while the Titanic is sinking, but I don’t care. (just wish we could make Bennett go down with the ship if that was the case)
It’s all coming to a head. I love you guys for keeping it going. God bless, man.
June 9th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Rock…
David Sterns statement about not wanting to give Seattle a team in the future if we don’t play his way now is totally ridiculous and offensive. I’m sure you agree.
Thanks for noting this - just another example of why we should ignore anything he says. Total posturing BS - he is an arrogant, condescenting and self absourbed tyrannt who cannot handle losing any measure of control.
I’m amazed he still has a job.
June 9th, 2008 at 10:23 am
What about Lenny?
June 9th, 2008 at 10:24 am
JJ, Wow, man! You are doing great today. I apreciate those letters/e-mails. We probably should all be sending similar ones now to KJR and Sonics beat writers and any other radio or TV station you can think of that may care. (The more letters they get, the more they care!)
June 9th, 2008 at 10:26 am
why dont we ask our local bloggers on ussmariner or seahawksaddict? i mean, sports in seattle all run through our blood…
June 9th, 2008 at 10:31 am
From my post at 10:18 & e-mail to KJR - I just received this e-mail from the gasman…
JJ,
Without even talking to anyone yet at the station this morning I’ll guarantee you many of these ideas are already in play.
Thanks for the input and enthusiasm.
gas
June 9th, 2008 at 10:32 am
TB, great point. What about Lenny? He certainly was working to keep the Sonics here and he lives here. I would think that he would be willing to speak to the group. I think we really need to invite him. He was also screwed over by Clay. I’m surprised that he’s not on one of the witness lists, but he obviously thought Clay was sincere. I guess it would be important to find out if he still feels that way.
Our speakers will be getting a lot of applause and cheers. It’ll be a great day for all of us.
June 9th, 2008 at 10:32 am
Is it me or does statements like the ones that Stern is making start falling under the extortion type of statements and don’t those start becoming anti-trust issues?
June 9th, 2008 at 10:34 am
I want chants so loud they’ll be able to hear us in Belltown… or… Chinatown!
June 9th, 2008 at 10:35 am
Doesn’t the UW get out this weekend? We just need to staple rally flyers on every telephone pole and every neighborhood in Seattle. Hit every major intersection and bus stop.
This is it as far as major statements we can make as fans. This is bigger then the last game, IMHO. There isn’t much else we can do after Monday so we should treat it as our last hoorah. I’m watching my young daughter that day, but there is no way I miss it. I don’t want to wonder if there was something else I could have done if they do indeed leave.
Email every KJR host and the staff, (They are more likely to read your emails if you write each one separately) tell your friends and family, bring your banners and signs, etc. I’m treating this like the pivotal event it is. We don’t need the City to interview Mitch to let the judge know how much fan support is still here, we can do it.
I have this feeling we are going to be surprised at the support that is still out there. Once people realize this “is it”, they will come. I know they will.
June 9th, 2008 at 10:36 am
JJ = on FIRE!!!!
June 9th, 2008 at 10:38 am
It would be nice if we could get them to mention the rally on the music stations, too. I’m not sure how to go about doing that though. I’ll bet quite a few of the DJ’s support keeping the Sonics around.
June 9th, 2008 at 10:39 am
JJ, Cool … that email from Gas is wonderful!!! … SOS or Sonics Greats should be on everyone’s show until next Monday. Will they do it?
If we call and e-mail enough, they probably will. Could people post ema’s that you want everyone to write to, or phone numbers to call here on the blog? Thanks.
xunderdogx77, I think that’s a great idea - a really great idea - whoever regularly goes there should probably contact who you know - who’s in charge and let us know you did.
We must have some contacts there. Even if not, we can still post.
June 9th, 2008 at 10:40 am
Just as in life shoot for the stars and be content about where you land. This rally needs as many people as possible if the national media is going to start taking notice. I live in Arizona so I’ll be blasting emails out to everyone I know in Seattle. Local stores, restaurants, bars, etc need to have fliers brought in. Especially ones around Seattle Center who would be hurt most by the Sonics leaving.
If anyone knows of any charities that Sonics players have donated to we need them to be notified.
Push the fact that Gary Payton will be there. He is the memory of the last great Sonics team. He is the guy who still brings emotion out of the smoldering wagon of fandom.
Make sure the national media understands that this city still wants this team. Because to them this is an already decided outcome.
June 9th, 2008 at 10:42 am
for people getting in late, may I suggest parking at the Seattle Center and taking the monorail. the courthouse is just a few blocks away. softey talking about the rally right now!
June 9th, 2008 at 10:43 am
Yes! Announcing the rally on KJR right now! Said there gonna hammer it all week!
June 9th, 2008 at 10:44 am
We should retire GP’s jersey and hang it over the entrance to the courthouse - lol.
June 9th, 2008 at 10:45 am
Is Bennett going to be there? Does it hurt our cause if gets hit by a few eggs or tomato’s?
June 9th, 2008 at 10:46 am
I will canvas the sororities. 8^)
June 9th, 2008 at 10:47 am
Flyers for the rally need to be ALL OVER seattle by friday
Especially near the courthouse and owntwon area so people who live and work near the rally location will be mosre likely to come.
Putting them in businesses near Key arena that benefit from the Sonics presence also makes plenty of sense and I would think those business owners would be glad to support this marketing effort.
June 9th, 2008 at 10:51 am
Redmill Burgers owner is a huuuge Sonic supporter, make sure to canvas their walls before the big weekend of endless customers. Do we have a flyer for printing yet? someone graffically inclined get to it!
June 9th, 2008 at 10:57 am
I mentioned last week that other Sonic legends could also be great leverage. Why not get Sikma, Brown, Williams, Nate, Lenny. Hey if this is the message that Kelley is talking about why not. Kevin Calabro, Bob Blackburn, local NBA players, Seahawks, etc. Bill Russell is in the pre game. Maybe Russell as well.
June 9th, 2008 at 10:58 am
Henry Abbott of TrueHoop & ESPN quotes steve kelly in his web site this morning…
http://myespn.go.com/nba/truehoop?tag=Sonics+Move
Henry is solid - now has a special category marked “Sonics Move” on his truehoops front page. I think he is a supproter of SOS.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:00 am
where are these flyers?
if no one else is on it, i will gladly make them, could probably have them done by tomorrow.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:04 am
Why are people spending so much time focussing on the guys we don’t have instead of just hammering the people we do?
Redmill is a great idea.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:04 am
Flyers will be done around lunch today.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Yeah, is there a .pdf file for the flyers? Let’s get moving! I’m on board. Hell, if I have to go down to the library (don’t have a printer) I’ll do it. Lets make this our last stand!
June 9th, 2008 at 11:06 am
If we could split up the business and work place’s in the general downtown vicinity-ESP in the courthouse area itself-asking employees to allow employees to A-either come in early to work and leave early to attend the rally B- To encourage the employees to attend due to the importance to our city and region and to show the nation that Seattle means BUSINESS!! Grab as many college age types as well..they usually have time and bring lots of friends.. Flyers FLYERS FLYERS to all the close- by Workplaces…..NETWORK NETWORK NETWORK-let’s get 15,000 thousand-DREAM HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Why settle for 5,000 or 10,000??
June 9th, 2008 at 11:06 am
Thanks Brian. Should have waited just one more minute to post.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:08 am
Maybe its just me; Somehow I see David Stern in the role of Dean Wormer.?
June 9th, 2008 at 11:12 am
I work right next to the market so consider it flyered.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:12 am
Has anyone thought about the possibility of getting The Presidents of the United States of America or even maybe just Chris Ballew to maybe do an acoustic session down there or something? They could play some of their Sonics songs, plus new stuff or whatever. People love music, free shows and a chance to possibly meet another local celebrity.
I like the idea Indyball! These guys have been Huge Sonics fans thru the years, and would be a great addition to the rally. Does anybody know if we could contact them to let them know about the rally to Save Our Sonics?
June 9th, 2008 at 11:13 am
Brian… Will the flyers be downloadable and printable in quantity?
June 9th, 2008 at 11:14 am
I work downtown and am willing to spend my lunchbreaks putting up flyers.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:17 am
Just for fun I’ll drop the flier onto Flickr and all the Seattle groups there, once it comes out.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Sherman Alexie can testify, Mitch Levy can not.
http://tinyurl.com/4mfayw
http://www.examiner.com
June 9th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Been so busy emailing everybody I just got around to “the other” Seattle Times article.
Schultz is suing Bennett for breach of contract, contending the Sonics owners did not make a good-faith effort to keep the team in Seattle. Schultz is seeking to rescind the sale.
“In that one, anything can happen,” Munson said. “If Schultz should win, then you have Oklahoma City wondering if it’s going to sue everybody.”
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sonics/2004465996_soni09.html
Just about Everyone thinks there will be a settlement before the trial. God help us all if there is. I don’t see any good that could come from that if it doesn’t include this this team of Durant and Green.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:22 am
What a COUP it would be to get none other than….BILL RUSSELL…the national media…would take a HUGE NOTICE….he appeared with CLAY CLAY in a suite at the KEY…I’m sure he believed Clay then and probably feels violated now…He does live on Mercer Island,right…
June 9th, 2008 at 11:23 am
I posted the rally info on Shawn Kemp’s website reignman.com so i hope that he reads his message board so he can join the rally. I don’t know if he reads it though, but i figured it couldn’t hurt and more Sonics fans might see it also!
June 9th, 2008 at 11:24 am
It makes sense that Mitch Levy will not be. If they wanted him to testify they should have added him sooner.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:27 am
trying to spread the word in advance of the flyer…i’ve seen 4:30 and 11:30 (AM) as the start time fo the rally. which is it and how early should folks show?
June 9th, 2008 at 11:27 am
I think Bennett and Stern will have to actually lose this case before they return to meaningful discussion to settle the thing they broke.
I think they will get a feel as to the potential risk of losing to Schultz through the interaction with the same judge in this city case.
After the trial I think they scamble to avoid a complete loss of a team.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Bring on the trial, bring on the rally! I am doing my best to get the word out and even if nobody else can get off work I will come by myself!! I almost get tearful thinking about it esp if we can get hundreds to possibly a thousand people there and cheering for our team and the former players! Save our Supes!
June 9th, 2008 at 11:30 am
JJ would win “The Apprentice” task of the week-he would be gloating in the Boardroom-WE NEED TO MATCH JJ’S FERVOR…we can’t let J.J. win!!!!Let’s keep those thoughts coming!!!!!Can U feel IT??
June 9th, 2008 at 11:32 am
“The Presidents of the United States of America or even maybe just Chris Ballew to maybe do an acoustic session down there or something?”
Doubt it. Acoustic sets usually don’t sound that great on 3 string/note guitars.
GP rules!
June 9th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Stone… There are also plenty of quotes in today’s news from many of the people involved saying a settlement is going to be tough to get. The whole thing is increasingly complicated to pull of a settlement.
Remember - the word “Settlement” can mean anything - it does NOT automatically mean the Sonics go to OKC. It could be a settlement that keeps the team here. We obvioulsy just don’t want a lease buyout settlement.
No one knows what will happen - so they all proceed towards the trial. If the trial happens there will be a whole new landscape of reality for everyone to deal with when a court decision comes down.
This trial is huge - but either way it goes - there are still plenty of variables and uncertainties - this will have a huge influence - but it will not guarentee anything.
although - If Clay wins the SOS cause would seem to have only 2 hopes…
1. The city being able to appeal that decision
2. Howard’s case and getting an injuntion on the team moving this summer - and I have no idea How likely or realistic an injuntion like that is.
maybe an idea #3 I’m not thinking of.
Hopefully we win the lease case and move from there with a huge amount of leverage.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:37 am
sonicboom, I believe the Presidents are touring for their new cd.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:39 am
I sent the Steve Kelley article along with an email to 800+ people before I went to bed last night (around 4am).
Have some random thoughts about getting “more” people to the rally.
1) Spread the word to local high schools and colleges. Specifically the Seattle ones, but outlying areas as well. High school “kids” and college students like things like this.
2) The M’s have a game at 7:10pm on the 16th. Perhaps we can get people who are going to the game to swing by the rally beforehand. That’s the fourth day of a six-day homestand. Having someone hand out flyers outside Safeco Field before the first three games would be nice. Perhaps we could get the Mariners to “officially” support the cause?
I’ll have some more ideas later. Need to finish waking up first
June 9th, 2008 at 11:40 am
One basic trade-off to consider regarding attendence at the rally is how much ‘control’ is SOS willing to lose. Seattle is “blessed” with having a surplus of ‘professionals’ at ralling for ‘justice’. One well placed, well crafted piece in this week’s Stranger, could mobilize plenty to the rally.
Also, perhaps Chris Van Dyke/Nick Licota have a database of supporters willing to join SOS in making a statement that they will not be held hostage by the NBA.
The city themselves have a large number of workers downtown. Don’t see why the city can’t issue a few e-mail announcements on their distribution list promoting the rally . . . they also could promote early leave next Monday.
Finally, someone with time and energy might want to call down the list of YMCAs, boys & girls clubs and other after school/child care facilities to see if they would be interested in a field trip.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:41 am
I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to imply the Times article said it would be likely that there was a settlement. I meant that most other articles I’ve read before today suggested there would be a settlement. It does worry me that Steven Pyeatt thinks there will be one, however.
How about getting some of the guys from Pearl Jam or others? Can’t really get a permit for a plugged in performance at this stage in the game, but anything is possible.
Also, why isn’t there a link to Sonics Central on the top of the SOS page? There really should be because I’m sure there are a lot of people that would love to comment on this.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Bill “the Beerman” will be smiling from above! Bring your voice ampliphiers. Paint them green and gold!!!Can we get any??
June 9th, 2008 at 11:44 am
weather is looking ok
http://www.king5.com/weather/plus5more.html
June 9th, 2008 at 11:45 am
Thank you Brian. Stop bashing guys for not showin© and tell everyone and their grandma that GARY PAYTON AND XAVIER MCDANIEL WILL BE THERE!!!!!!!
That WILL be enough to get casual fans there!! Especially the bandwagon fans who stopped watching in the 90s.
Am I the only one glad that the Marines have the worst record in the league? We’re not losing any attention to them!!!
June 9th, 2008 at 11:47 am
I think it would be great to have some music, too, as another draw, but I don’t know if we can. Apparently our permit is just to gather and not much else. I think it specifically prohibits skits.
Not sure about music, though.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:48 am
ZenDoc & JJ, I agree with both of you that David Stern made an empty threat. Keep in mind that Stern is a first-rate attorney who picks his words very carefully.
The Times article stated, “Stern also said he’d lose any desire to help Seattle secure another team if the city continues with its lawsuit and the team leaves.” Note that Stern left open the possibility of helping Seattle IF the city continues its lawsuit and the team does NOT leave. Stern is equivocating.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Rmcd….
On the rally… I agree the more ex-sonics the better … but we already have GP & the X-Man - I think BR is right - let’s celebrate that and focus on that.
Flyer locations….
1. Post some all over the place in the building where the Sonics offices are located
2. Send them to henry Abbott, Simmons, JA Adamade of ESPN
3. Post them in Seattle City hall and mayors office
4. Post them in every Seattle area starbcuks - Got to believe Howard would be supportive
5. E-Mail them to every Seattle areas Sports wirter and TV/Radio Media announcer
6. Send one to Clays Busnnes headquarters wherever that is
7. Post one in NYC at NBA headquarters
8. Send one to Mark Cuban and Paul Allen - thank them for their support.
9. Send one with a brief and respectful note to every NBA owner - ASAP expressing the Sonics passion and saying we are NOT giving up or giving in - ever.
10. Send one to every major national sprots media outlet.
11. Send one to every major sports radio station in each city with an NBA team - send to all their hosts if possible - they must all have web sites with the names and e-mails of the hosts. Tell them this rally is happening and write a 1 paragraph statement on why the SOS cause is really a larger “NBA fan” cause. What happens here impacts the future of the league in many ways. Ask these show hosts to take 1-2 minutes - report on the upcoming rally in seattle and then read this statement we send them - which plants the seeds among other fans who later might come to our aid in some form.
12. Find a few Sonics fans in LA - Have them post this rally flyer or some type of SOS flyer all over the staples center during the finals - hand out to people - again saying with the SOS cause is a larger NBA Fan cause for everyone. Maybe focus on Game # 5 on Sunday night - (Got to figure the Lakers win at least 1 game to take it to Sunday night)
Just some ideas
June 9th, 2008 at 11:50 am
It is important for each of us to ACT on our ideas if at all possible-not just recommend them for others to do
June 9th, 2008 at 11:51 am
Am I the only one glad that the Marines have the worst record in the league? We’re not losing any attention to them!!!
Tell KJR that. They spend 75% of their airtime talking about how the Mariners suck. It’s kind of the nature of sports radio. If there isn’t a topic, start a topic. Right now Softy is stirring things up by asking if we should keep Bedard. Drives me nuts but it is what it is.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:52 am
It may not be possible to get current NBA players and coaches and I respect the decision, if such a decision has been made, not to approach them. But David Stern doesn’t have any control over MLB and NFL players, coaches and/or owners.
Have “we” contacted the Mariners and/or Seahawks to see if any of their players would be willing to attend? With the M’s playing at 7:10, it might be “difficult” for them to swing by but if any of them did, it would be HUGE.
And an ad in the paper from either the Mariners or the Seahawks (or both) stating their support of keeping the Sonics in Seattle would be INCREDIBLE. You know they’re “watching” what’s happening; maybe they’d be willing to “go on record” and say something.
Might be worth asking.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Chris… love the idea of passing out some flyers at the M’s game for a night or 2 prior to the rally. Excellent
Way to pass on the Kelly article - you have alot of friends!
June 9th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Speaking of the M’s…the axe has begun with the usual “bottom up”…..
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3433835
June 9th, 2008 at 11:55 am
My guess is that the Mariners and Seahawks are going to encourage their players to stay out of it. Or at least not encourage them to help in any way.
I could be wrong though.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:57 am
I’m excited for the flyers. I am going to hand deliver them to all the fraternities and sororities in the UW Greek System!!!
I will also go to any and every bar and store that I can!!!
Anyone in the U District wanna help??
June 9th, 2008 at 11:59 am
Rock, Excellent point about Stern. He is also a great Chameleon:
“The Times article stated, “Stern also said he’d lose any desire to help Seattle secure another team if the city continues with its lawsuit and the team leaves.” Note that Stern left open the possibility of helping Seattle IF the city continues its lawsuit and the team does NOT leave. Stern is equivocating.”
That’s one of the things that he does best, along with intimidating and lying.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
All the suggestions for former sonics and others to come are great but like brian said…lets focus on the 2 HUGE guys we already have. Doesn’t get much better then Gary Payton. So lets now get the word out! Also beside mitch levy not being able to testify does anyone know any of the other rulings yet????
June 9th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
http://tinyurl.com/5m9t8b
Alexie can testify in Sonics trial
June 9th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Mitch can not testify
June 9th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Lots of great ideas keep coming. Chris, I think that’s an excellent point about SeaHawks and Mariners players and others. Paul Allen owns the SeaHawks and he’s not only a Seattle native, but as the owner of the Portland Trailblazers, he also voted against allowing the Sonics to relocate from Seattle to OKC. Don’t you think he would show some support for the rally? Maybe make players available or at least circulate a memorandum to all employees that he encourages them to attend the Save Our Sonics rally Monday? Who has contacts in the SeaHawks organization?
June 9th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
A federal judge on Monday declined to place limits on what evidence the owners of the Seattle SuperSonics may offer during a trial that could determine whether the team moves to Oklahoma City next season.
In pretrial motions, Seattle lawyers asked U.S. District Judge Marsha Pechman to bar the Sonics from introducing evidence that the team and the city had a “dysfunctional” relationship, that survey results show most residents don’t care if the Sonics leave, and that the team tried to obtain a new arena in the Seattle area.
They also wanted to block the Sonics ownership group, the Professional Basketball Club, from pointing out the city’s efforts to have the team sold to a local partnership led by Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer.
Pechman declined, saying that some of the city’s motions raised questions of law, rather than just evidence.
“The court will not preclude PBC from offering potentially relevant evidence at this time, but will hear all proper objections during the course of the trial,” she wrote in a two-page order.
Pechman will hear the six-day trial herself, without a jury, beginning next Monday. The city sued last year in an attempt to prevent the Sonics from breaking their lease at KeyArena before it runs out in 2010.
The judge did grant the team’s motion to exclude one witness for the city, talk radio host Mitch Levy. The city disclosed Levy’s name too late, and the Sonics did not have a chance to depose him or prepare any rebuttal.
However, Pechman also said she would allow National Book Award winner Sherman Alexie to testify for the city. Seattle’s lawyers said they hoped to call Alexie because he’s a season-ticket holder, a big fan and can discuss the team’s importance in Seattle. Attorneys for the Sonics had asked that he be barred, claiming he had nothing relevant to say.
http://www.examiner.com
http://tinyurl.com/4z6ady
June 9th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
I think we should focus on getting as many people as possible there. Anything else is not that effective.
So the Judge says that she will listen to evidence about the dysfunctional relationship with Clay and the City. I can only hope that their PR stunt to call conspiracy on the City will not have them spinning more lies to get caught up in and open up more evidence for more lawsuits..
http://www.komonews.com/news/19664209.html
“In pretrial motions, Seattle lawyers asked U.S. District Judge Marsha Pechman to bar the Sonics from introducing evidence that the team and the city had a “dysfunctional” relationship, that survey results show most residents don’t care if the Sonics leave, and that the team tried to obtain a new arena in the Seattle area.
They also wanted to block the Sonics ownership group, the Professional Basketball Club, from pointing out the city’s efforts to have the team sold to a local partnership led by Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer.
Pechman declined, saying that some of the city’s motions raised questions of law, rather than just evidence.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Once the flyers are available….
Brian or Steve of SOS… if you have a list of the names and addresses of the owners of every NBA team - and you think it is a good idea - I’ll print and mail flyers with a respectful & polite note to all of them this week. Just let me know if you want that done - if not I’ll back off that idea as I respect your sense of what will or will not be most helpful.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
The Times article linked by Zonics states, “In her written ruling, Pechman said she would not restrict the team’s ability “to determine which evidence it chooses to present” during the six-day trial.”
This could indicate that Pechman is going to let the PBC run wild so she can rule against them without giving them grounds to appeal. The PBC will not be able to argue on appeal that it should have been allowed to present evidence that the judge excluded. The tone of the quote is that the PBC can waste its time presenting irrelevant evidence if it chooses to.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Rock, that may be why she was really clear about the limits of time each side would get before this starts. I see your point. They get 15 hours, so it is on them to pick and choose what they want to use to make their case regarding the lease.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
I think that the Judge made the right calls. The City was very late in adding Mitch Levy’s name to the list of witnesses. Apparently they didn’t think about it until one of them heard Mitch in the Morning on his show talking about the Sonics’ situation and thought, “that guy would be a great witness for us.” They should have thought about KJR hosts earlier.
Also, I’m glad that she’s allowing PBC to introduce all their evidence and not excluding anything, because I think most of their evidence is going to make them look stupid, especially that ridiculous survey of 622 people or whatever it was. They’re going to use that to “prove” that Seattle citizens do not care about whether the Sonics stay or go while 4 or 5,000 of us are outside their doors chanting for them to Save Our Sonics? Hmmmm … I don’t think so.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Rock, good point.
I have goose bumps anticipating this trial!
June 9th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
I think that the PBC can open a huge can of worms if they try to bring in some of that so-called evidence. That means that Seattle can counter with more of the emails and their so-called efforts. I believe that Seattle will focus its case on the performance of the lease. The truth is that no matter what dysfunction that may be true or not it does not matter that the PBC assumed the Use Agreement with a specific performance.
I don’t see it as a win or lose for either side.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
This could indicate that Pechman is going to let the PBC run wild so she can rule against them without giving them grounds to appeal. The PBC will not be able to argue on appeal that it should have been allowed to present evidence that the judge excluded. The tone of the quote is that the PBC can waste its time presenting irrelevant evidence if it chooses to.
- Lets hope they can bring in one of the nation’s leading scientists to explain why in fact the sky is green.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Solid ruling for the reasons Rock stated above.
Plus, Mr. Sherman Alexie should add some flavor.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Seattle has a witness, “KeyArena manager Jyo Singh”, that can testify to the working releationship of the people that actually do the work. No matter how unhappy the owner, mayor, fans are, the people that facilitate the event are the ones that have to function or not, in order to show meaningful dysfunction.
The team played all last year in Key Arena, not well, but the show went on without disruption.
I am not sure how they are going to show dysfunction that would hinder following the lease for 2 more years. If KeyArena manager Jyo Singh can not work with the Sonics troll to the point that the team can not play then there is a problem. beyond that, I think that is show for the NBA BOG.
Hot gas.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Zonics and others, you know that when Judge Pechman denied the City’s motions in limine: “Pechman declined, saying that some of the city’s motions raised questions of law, rather than just evidence.”
… that the reason she is doing that is so PBC has no VALID reason to appeal the decision when it is handed down 6 days later, right? She wants to let PBC introduce everything that they want to introduce, so they cannot use that as a basis for an appeal. A few people have mentioned this earlier. I’m sure she wanted to allow the City every piece of evidence that was properly submitted also, however, the city submitted Mitch Levy’s name after the deadline, so if she had allowed that, it could have been another basis for an appeal by PBC, because she didn’t follow her own guidelines.
It’s too bad we won’t get to hear Mitch Levy testify, but it’s great that we will get to hear Sherman Alexie testify. I can’t wait.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
I’m fine with the judges decision mainly because I suspect Rock may be right. Also, their position is so fundamentally stupid - I’m OK with them trying to make it.
This is one of the most amazing contradictions in Americal public sports today.
1. Clay goes to Olympia and ask for 500 million while publically saying the Sonics bring great value to the city and region in many ways.
2. Less than a year year later Clay sues to leave his lease early because he says in court documents if the team leaves the region and city no one will care and it will have no impact of significance.
Hello?
When I want 500 million, The team is valuable to the area/community and many people care about the Sonics.
When I want to take the team to my hometown the team is insignificant to the area/community and no one will care.
I would love to ask Dave Stern…
So you have an NBA owner who says if his team leaves it’s city no one will care and it will have no significant negative impact for that city and its fans. Are you ok with that?
June 9th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
So, when the city brings in Nickels and he testifies that he offered to discuss a re-negotiation of the Key Arena Use Agreement along with a renovation and expansion of the Key and got no response, I think their dysfunction and poll arguments fly out the window.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
I see that Rock already covered these points from my last post. We do have a lot of great minds here thinking alike on certain things anyway.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
“It’s too bad we won’t get to hear Mitch Levy testify, but it’s great that we will get to hear Sherman Alexie testify. I can’t wait.”
I am not excited about Alexie. I think that Levy would bring more to the table. However, if the PBC does appeal, the city can bring in Levy at that time.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Plus, nothing stops Mitch from “testifying” on the radio
We should just call in and ask him ON AIR what he was going to talk about had he been called to the witness stand. Might not affect the judge or the trial result but it would further help to “spread the word” about the travesty that’s occuring.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Someone said it much earlier, but Judges do not like to have their decisions appealled, so the pre-trial motions are critical in framing the trial and the decision rendered. PBC is being allowed to do EVERYTHING they want to do at trial. She wants to be as fair to both sides as possible and not create excuses for PBC (or the City, for that matter) to even think about an appeal afterward. That is what Judges do.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
I am not excited about Alexie. I think that Levy would bring more to the table. However, if the PBC does appeal, the city can bring in Levy at that time.
- I think Alexie will be great…for some reason I picture the lawyer fishing for those “a’ha” moments and him making the guy feel stupid.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
So why don’t they get Alexi to write an article this week concerning/interviewing Levy and his pertinent experience. Then they could ask Alexi about that article.
June 9th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Alexie is too much like a shock jock. They appeal to some people, but do not necessarily add much. I wouldn’t call him unless the PBC does center their case on Seattle not supporting the Sonics.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
“So why don’t they get Alexi to write an article this week concerning/interviewing Levy and his pertinent experience. Then they could ask Alexi about that article.”
Now there is a good idea.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Somehow I think the judge would frown on that tactic.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Laporbo & Guess Who, that does sound like a good idea (having Sherman Alexie interview Mitch Levy in his column about his relevant knowledge and then having the City’s attorneys ask Alexie about the article under oath). Does anyone know if it would actually be allowed in court or not? If so, maybe Zonics or Reidster can look into it.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
“Steve, don’t cum yet.” -the X-Man, “Singles”
Best cameo in any movie set in the City of Seattle!
June 9th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
It could be entered as evidence if the PBC brings in the indifference of Seattle to the Sonics. It doesn’t need to be actually anything that is questioned. Just entered as a piece of evidence.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
I wonder if Alexie has any contact with other fans, Mukilshoot?
Tell us Sheman, how interested are native groups in the Sonics?
June 9th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
It might be too late to get it entered as evidence. They could ask the court to allow it in if Alexie is asked to testify. She may say no.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Another idea is that the Mariners have home games this weekend. If there is anybody going to the games, people can distribute flyers at the game. We should also divide the areas of Seattle so we can try and get all of them. It doesn’t just have to be in bussinesses. You can even put flyers on cars under their wipers in random parking lots across Seattle. Just some ideas.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
I think it best to respect the judges rulings & not try to work around them.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Guess Who, I think that’s actually what Friday was all about - the deadline to enter any evidence or submit any motions that they wanted her to rule on for the trial.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
I have a bunch of stuff that could be auctioned off to raise money for SOS.
Where can I bring it?
June 9th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
It is not that unusual to get evidence entered during a trial in order to counteract testimony. It would just depend if the judge would allow it to be entered. I think it depends on how far the PBC wants to push the dysfunction and lack of interest points.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004466724_alexie09m.html
Seattle times is reporting that Alexie will get to testify, but levy’s testamony will not be allowed because the city of Seattle dropped the ball yet again by asking him to testify too late and not allowing the Sonics/PBC to depose him.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
If the PBC center their case on the dysfunction and lack of support/interest, I think it does open a Pandora’s Box for them. It opens new arguments for the city. They can bring in past records of the Sonics while under good or even semi-good ownership. It could also open up other information from other NBA teams if there is an appeal.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
I couldn’t read the whole thread, but since KJR is going to promote it, as well as others I was thinking that everyone going downtown that day(for whatever reason) could be encouraged to wear Sonics gear, even if they can’t go to the rally. All of downtown could be the general rally site(for those who can’t go), with the courthouse being the heart of it(for those who can).
June 9th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
You’re a little late with that mcWalter44. We’ve been discussing it for quite awhile now. It was expected anyway.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Nice to hear you on KJR Brian. Lets bring this thing home.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Brian is on KJR promoting Monday
June 9th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
The NBA ‘Needs’ to be embarrassed. O M G! Stern colluded with Clay Bennett, plain as day. They both are begging for a congressional investigation of the league. The Whole NBA is dirty! Hoping Seattle will hold firm against this whole mess. Seattle will win if they can play this out!!!!
June 9th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Can we contact Former or current NBA players from Seattle to attend the rally? I know i have seen Nate Robinson and Crawford talk about how it would kill them if Seattle lost the Sonics? How about Brandon Roy? I know GP and the Xman are Awesome, but the more start power to the event the better, and more exposure!
June 9th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Scorched Earth!
June 9th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
“Mike Spokane Says:
June 9th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
The NBA ‘Needs’ to be embarrassed. O M G! Stern colluded with Clay Bennett, plain as day. They both are begging for a congressional investigation of the league. The Whole NBA is dirty! Hoping Seattle will hold firm against this whole mess. Seattle will win if they can play this out!!!!”
I agree. Especially after what Stern said last night. Basically, he is trying to extort a settlement out of Seattle. I hope someone has the guts to start a suit against the NBA.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
epx, Good thinking! On the flyer we should tell people to wear their Sonics Gear on Monday to work or shopping or wherever they go to show their allegiance and love for the Sonics, EVEN if they can’t make it to the Rally. That would be very cool, especially if we got big numbers of people to wear Sonics gear that day so it was noticeable in many areas.
Monday, June 16 is “Wear Your Sonics’ Gear to Work Day” with a Huge “Save Our Sonics Rally” at the Federal Courthouse at 4:30PM with featured Soincs’ celebrities Gary Payton and Xavier McDaniel.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Alexie is too much like a shock jock. They appeal to some people, but do not necessarily add much. I wouldn’t call him unless the PBC does center their case on Seattle not supporting the Sonics.
- I respectfully disagree that Alexie is too much like a shock jock…or I should say I respectfully disagree that Alexie could not get his point across very well without relying on some of his colorful language. Similar to South Park he uses his colorful language as a tool to bring light his message of close mindedness within society. It isn’t what he is all about.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Here’s the filing:
http://blogmedia.thenewstribune.com/media/users/ericwilliams/pechmaninlinine.pdf
June 9th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
that would be “Sonics’ Celebrities” not “Soincs’ celebrities” …
June 9th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Guess Who: as a glutton for punishment what did Stern say last night?
June 9th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
I wish i could do that, but i have to dress up for work. if only i had a George Karl-esque green and gold space needle tie…
June 9th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
On April 16, Cantwell and Murray wrote an open (and impotent) letter to David Stern stating “Lengthy litigation should not be the only way to . . . ”
It would be nice, at this crucial time when the NBA will likely be asked to broker a settlement, if these senators could apply a bit more pressure for the NBA to act. A nice note stating that if it is found in a court of law that the NBA actively abetted in deciet or fraud in an attempt to cajole taxpayer money from the citizens of the state of Washington and/or from the state of Oklahoma . . . that this would be a matter of great concern for Congress, and may necessitate hearings.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/soundoff/comment.asp?articleID=366340
Looks like Clint is pissed.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Can anyone help me arrange a bus load of supporters from Vancouver?
June 9th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Can anyone help me arrange a bus load of supporters from Vancouver?
June 9th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
http://www.greyhound.com/home/
here you go.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Dick, I wondered why Clint had not posted here recently. I guess when EJ raked him over the coals, he decided that he had had enough abuse here. He probably never saw my defense of him and his position. Actually, I believe Clint has more sympathisizers here than EJ does, if it comes right down to it. I’ll see if I can invite him back on the P-I blog. Here’s his post under the handle “ckru”:
“Eh, oh well… I guess this means that a settlement/expansion offer for Seattle is on its way, which should brighten the day for the pro-settlemnt, pro-expansion team for OUR city fringe group, Save Our Sonics.
The SOS movement appears to be pushing hard for a settlement, would be thrilled with an expansion team in Seattle, and would be giddy to continue giving David Stern money in any way possible. What’s a fan to do? I always thought SOS stood for Save Our Sonics, but now I’m under the impression that it stand for either Settle or Sell Our Sonics.
Maybe their waste of time, traffic congesting, rush hour rally will be able to drum up some more support for settling/selling out our Sonics.
SAVE THESE KD & GREEN LED SONICS OR BUST!!! SCREW SOS!!! ”
I hate to see that. Does anyone actually know Clint?
June 9th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Dear Commissioner Stern:
In our letter to you dated April 16, 2008, we respectfully requested that “you remove consideration of the relocation [of the Sonics] from your agenda and, barring that, that you reject the relocation of our team from its hometown.” We made this request based on the evidence that had emerged that the Oklahoma-based ownership group that purchased the Sonics had obtained the team through fraudulent and decietful means.
Your organization elected to disregard our request.
Since that time, through publically available court depositions, evidence has emerged that the NBA has been actively complicit both in the fraudulent and decietful behavior of the Oklahoma ownership group. Even more disturbing however, is the possibility that evidence will emerge that the NBA has been complicit in fraud and deciet of taxpayers both in Washington State and in Oklahoma, by promoting claims about the value of NBA franchises known by the NBA to be untrue.
We find this behavior of a major sports organization to be most troubling. If it is established in a court of law that the NBA promoted known lies about the value of their franchises to coerse taxpayer money from states, we will consider bringing this matter before the Senate [subcommittee on interstate commerce?] for hearings.
Sincerely,
Patty Murray, United States Senator
Maria Cantwell, United States Senator
June 9th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/reader_feedback/public/display.php?id=619&offset=50
Reading the Times posts questioning whether we should settle or not brought tears to my eyes. It doesn’t seem like anyone wants a settlement! This is starting to feel like a ball that is rolling now!
June 9th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
D_G where is that from? Did you make that up?
June 9th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
“Zonics Says:
June 9th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
Guess Who: as a glutton for punishment what did Stern say last night?”
Zonics, I have tried 2 times to post the link and it isn’t getting posted.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
SeaSonics:
Oh, yeah . . . I just made that up as some kindda suggestion for what MurrayCantwell could write to apply additional pressure.
Of course, this is not a document that they have signed or endorsed. Perhaps it would be nice if they did.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
I hope that Murray and Cantwell didn’t send that letter with the misspellings.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
You are right about that D_G
June 9th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
“Brad Says:
June 9th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
Can anyone help me arrange a bus load of supporters from Vancouver?
Zonics Says:
June 9th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
http://www.greyhound.com/home/
here you go. ”
Best part is that the courthouse is right across the street from the Greyhound station.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
D_G: what is that?
June 9th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
I Emailed all the major media outlets here this morning including KING 5 / Komo 4/ Komo 1000/ Kiro 7/ KJR/ And Sports Radio 1380.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
hearing Clint say SCREW SOS is somewhat disheartening. but you gotta love his passion.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
oh its a fake heh.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
According to Bosley on the ESPN board, he has been in contact with some people behind the scenes and according to him things are getting “pretty heated”. It might get very interesting in the next couple of days.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
I think Rock and others on here know much more then I do about the law and I hope that they are correct about the Judge letting in all evidence so they will have less reason to appeal. However it makes me nervous that a lot of you seem to think we are 100% going to win. We all need to get everyone to the rally but have to be realistic and know that this is not a slam dunk. Anyway I think that its good they can bring in whatever evidence becuse as someone mentioned above some of it may make them look foolish. Example:
PBC: Your Honor we would like to present a survey taken that proves that Seattle doesnt care about the Sonics
Judge: How many people participated in this survey so I can get a percentage of the population that feels this way?
PBC:604 Your Honor
Judge: 604,000?
PBC: 604 people Your Honor
Hahaha meanwhile there are over 1000 outside the courthouse chanting SAVE OUR SONICS
June 9th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Looks like Clint is pissed.
- That tends to happen to people who are only willing to accept one very tiny version of what will happen.
The fact that he is willing to say screw SOS leadership for trying to ensure that ALL fans get to enjoy NBA basketball and that version doesn’t neatly match his view of what should happen says alot about things.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Judge Pechman’s ruling noted that she will still entertain objections on the basis of relevancy during trial. So when the PBC lawyer starts questioning witnesses about how the City would not renegotiate the lease because the City favored Ballmer as an owner, the Judge can sustain the objection on the basis that it is irrelevant as to whether the PBC should complete its obligations under the lease.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
PBC:604 Your Honor
Judge: 604,000?
PBC: 604 people Your Honor
Hahaha meanwhile there are over 1000 outside the courthouse chanting SAVE OUR SONICS
- While I am not sure 604 is big enough to be considered statistically valid…people who are comparing the 604 to the X amount who are at the rally are not understanding the survey’s point.
To be honest, the biggest problem with the survey was that it was a statewide survey…not sure what someone in Walla Walla has to do with this situation.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Might seem foolish to use a survey of 604 people to generalize about the attitudes of a metropolitan area of several million . . . but surveys of about 2,000 are used regularly to generalize about election results for a country of voters that number (above?) 100 million.
And when the sample selection is done well, the surveys have tended to be quite accurate.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
You guy need to lay off Clint & other fellow Sonics supporters. We’re all on the same side here, but you all pushed him so hard he’s against us now- it’s just going to decrease our turnout at the rally.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
“Looks like Clint is pissed.
- That tends to happen to people who are only willing to accept one very tiny version of what will happen. ”
Or maybe Myk, you pushed him over the edge.
Did you see that Sienfeld episode where Kramer argues with his golfing buddy about whether it is legal to clean your ball when it is on the fairway . . . and an hour later the golfing buddy goes on a shooting spree . . .
June 9th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Zendoc thanks, and for those who have to dress up like TB(i think it was), they could maybe wear a Sonics button at least(if they wanted to). Did SOS ever make buttons?
June 9th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
I think we should not be stopping with Gary and McDaniel. That is a great start but why stop there Brian? Why not see if we can get more? If we really want this to do something, we need to think big and not just settle with what we have. Everyone on here is really encouraged for this rally but how many people on here are there that are going to attend the rally? 200? maybe 500? Because of this we should be focusing on spreading the word outside of this board or outside the usual circulation, (kjr,seattletimes,etc) Lets spread the word to new places where people play and love basketball.
How about, high schools and local colleges, YMCA’s, Boys and girls clubs. See if we can get the Boys and Girls clubs to take there after school program to attend this. THere are many bball players in those programs. How about community centers all across the area? Local High school basketball teams and AAU teams? These are the sonic fans who we should be reaching out to
June 9th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Surveys can give you the answer that you want depending on how they are constructed.
Most early surveys said that Hillary was going to win. Hmmm.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Just went on ebay and ordered my SOS wristbands!
June 9th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Because the guy has contributed so much to the cause…
He can have his position and we have ours. We’ve done everything we can do to save the team, spared no effort, and frankly I think we’ve done a very good job. He doesn’t even get that we don’t want to take a replacement team, we just acknowledge it as a potential option and don’t want to unilaterally take it off the table.
In the last 30 days I have talked to at minimum 100 people who are very knowledgable. Producers from radio and TV, members of legislature and the executive office, city council people, NBA officials, NBPA representatives, players, players agents, lawyers, etc. I base my understanding of the odds and the strategy needed to maximize those odds on all that conversation. Some guys read an internet column, think they are experts, and want to judge my decision when theres is made without fact.
Accepting the potential of a replacement team probably triples our odds or retaining NBA basketball in this town. We are by no means out of the woods or even leading the way here. I think its a worthwhile tradeoff. If people don’t agree they are entitled to their opinion. The guy came here and called me a sellout and is now out badmouthing because we have a differing opinion. Somehow you say I’m too hard on him?
Its fine. I can live with it.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
“You guy need to lay off Clint & other fellow Sonics supporters. We’re all on the same side here, but you all pushed him so hard he’s against us now- it’s just going to decrease our turnout at the rally.”
This board has never dealt well with dissenting opinions. Unfortunately, that means 99% of the most knowledgeable basketball fans that used to post here have left.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
604 survey respondents is a little low, but not too low. A good number from a margin of error standpoint is about 1,500 people. People need to let go of the 604 issue and concentrate on the margin of error and the lack of it being a local survey. Those are the best counterpoints as well as historical attendance records.
Those who are against a settlement might want to think about the risk/reward (and in my view overrate Durant and Green). I am against an expansion team - but any other solution that calls for continuous ball is OK with me (well - unless the deal is that we get the Knicks!).
June 9th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
So what happened to the flyers being done by lunch?
June 9th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
I am surprised and sad to see that posting from Clint. One of my favorite parts of coming on here everyday has been reading his posts. I love his enthusiasm and I agree with him and pretty much have all of the same feelings as he does. (not the screw sos part). Ill miss seeing Clints posts on here and I was hoping I was going to see him at the rally with his Save these KD and Green led Sonics Sign!
June 9th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Clint was keepin’ it real to himself, and some of the assessements about him, and his position are pretty unfair. Yeah, he got too emotional, but he’s not the only one who’s done that here. It’s also the kind of thing that happens when people make sweeping accusations about others who don’t agree with them, such as saying so, and so has the logical position, insinuating that everyone else who doesn’t agree is not logical(I’m surprised EJ missed correcting THAT poster when he was talking about unity, or perhaps he missed it since it was someone who agrees with him)…
June 9th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
T, the judge will probably exclude the poll following an objection on relevancy grounds. It makes no difference to the execution of the lease contract what a poll says. The only opinion that counts is the City’s official opinion as enunciated by their attorneys. The City represents a number of interests, some of which may be a minority. It does not matter what percentage of Washingtonians or Seattleites think the City’s prestige and social fabric is dependent on maintaining professional sports franchises.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
“A house divided against itself cannot stand.” What is important?
June 9th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
“While I am not sure 604 is big enough to be considered statistically valid…people who are comparing the 604 to the X amount who are at the rally are not understanding the survey’s point. ”
I do understand the surveys point and its ridiculous no matter what if youre only going to survey 604 people. I was just joking, not misunderstanding.
June 9th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Brian- I wasn’t saying that you were to hard on him, I was referring to other posters. I’m also not saying he’s right. I just think we need to remember we’re all on the same side.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
If they leave I turn my back on the NBA. To me, that means if Durant and Green are going to OKC you can count me out of supporting the NBA again.
Anyone else notice that Clay is threatening to take the Sonics name if this goes to court? How could anyone be cool with letting this team go with this guy. I’ve run out of expletives to describe him and his actions.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Regarding the poll . . . I like Myk’s take on the issue from long ago . . .
The institution would have to make a difference to twice as high a percentage of folks from OKC before it begins to serve as many people as it currently does in Seattle.
By the way, there are numerous institutions/services of tremendous community value that only serve a small fraction of the population . . .
June 9th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
What Myk said about Clint applies to alot of people here. There are a lot of SOS supporters who have different visions of what success in this scenario are and unfortunately, we’re a group that enjoys bashing each other if our visions of success don’t seem to match each others.
I am very glad we have such a diverse, opiniated group of people here for 1 specific cause….no matter race, sex, political or religious affiliation, we all continue to fight to keep the Sonics in Seattle. Let’s continue to try and build each other up, rather than rip everyone down….
June 9th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
“Anyone else notice that Clay is threatening to take the Sonics name if this goes to court?”
The funniest part about that is that people in OKC don’t want the Sonics name & colors- just the team
June 9th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
“Stone Says:
June 9th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
If they leave I turn my back on the NBA. To me, that means if Durant and Green are going to OKC you can count me out of supporting the NBA again.”
How long do you think they will stay there considering what Durant himself said about Bennett? Not long. In fact, I will go as far as saying that if this ownership remained, he would be in Seattle either.
“Anyone else notice that Clay is threatening to take the Sonics name if this goes to court? How could anyone be cool with letting this team go with this guy. I’ve run out of expletives to describe him and his actions.”
This doesn’t surprise me.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Should have said, “In fact, I will go as far as saying that if this ownership remained, he wouldN’T be in Seattle either.”
June 9th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
I for one am in the camp of expansion team is better than no team (as a last ditch effort, mind you. i want THIS team first and foremost). however, i’d have a real hard time rooting for the Seattle ______ while the Oklahoma City Sonics exist.
although i’m pretty sure it’s just another empty threat from Clay Clay to try and force a settlement. like k-man said, the people from OKC don’t want the name.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
It may not be Clay’s team to move.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
No, I think Brian was fair enough considering Clint’s post. Bottom line is we get unfair with our posts sometime, to the point that we misquote, or even pigeonhole people. Heck, someone even lied about me saying I said such and such, but then when I asked them where, I never heard back from them. I think if we all just slow our role(as gp used to say), and stop taking ourselves so seriously, then things could get better on this site.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
The size of the sample needed will depend on the size of the population sampled, and the amount of variability in that sample.
Another issue, as stated, is the relevance of the sample. A statewide sample? Not an accurate sample of the target audience. Also, I’ll bet this sample, like most samples, are samples of convenience (who’s at the mall that day, or who is willing to talk on the phone), and do not approximate a random sample.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
Groz and Gas are discussing the Sonics vs. the City of Seattle right now on KJR AM 950 and KJRAM.com Groz said he would be at the rally to “rabble rouse.” That’s pretty cool.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
It is kind of hard to have discussions when one party says “it is my way or the highway”.
I am pretty sure that those with the power or authority in this matter will make a decision on what is important for the city of Seattle, not just for one side or the other in regard to the present day Sonics vs. any other team whether expansion or team relocation.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
Let him have the name, heck he’s trying to take the team, and the history already. What do we need with the name anyway, after this episode? If we have to go the expansion route, we could just start over completely for all I care(it’s all the same to me). In the end, he’ll just look more, and more like the bad guy, and be remembered as such for doing that, and everything else he’s done. Him taking the name like that, won’t look good nationally, and I’m pretty sure that OKC won’t ever be considered Americas team with a guy like him at the helm…
June 9th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
I should have said: “…the amount of variability in that POPULATION.”
June 9th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
“It may not be Clay’s team to move. ”
How true. The main point David Stern & everyone in the media seems to be missing. I still have yet to hear Stern even acknowldge the Schultz lawsuit when asked about the Sonics.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Accepting the potential of a replacement team probably triples our odds or retaining NBA basketball in this town. We are by no means out of the woods or even leading the way here. I think its a worthwhile tradeoff. If people don’t agree they are entitled to their opinion. The guy came here and called me a sellout and is now out badmouthing because we have a differing opinion. Somehow you say I’m too hard on him?
- This is why I consider the side that is OK with expansion the logical side. It provides a much greater chance of success of creating the greatest amount of happiness for the Region’s citizens.
In my eyes, the only goal is keeping the NBA in Seattle. Everything else is a moot point because the past does not matter. Nothing can remove people’s memories of the great Sonics teams from the past. Nothing can make Clay Bennett and David Stern any less horrible of individuals. This has all already happened and history will judge it to happen.
Now I would like to have a team to support so that I have the ability to create new memories. Without a team the memories of the old team will be all we have left.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Maybe Clay enjoys being the bad boy….(insert joke here)
June 9th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
It does seem logical if there is an expansion team it should be OKC, but sometimes logic does not prevail.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Let him have the name, heck he’s trying to take the team, and the history already. What do we need with the name anyway, after this episode? If we have to go the expansion route, we could just start over completely for all I care(it’s all the same to me). In the end, he’ll just look more, and more like the bad guy, and be remembered as such for doing that, and everything else he’s done. Him taking the name like that, won’t look good nationally, and I’m pretty sure that OKC won’t ever be considered Americas team with a guy like him at the helm…
- While I can understand how much it would suck to lose the Sonics name and am absolutely not in favor of losing it…I can definately make an argument that him taking the name is really not a big deal.
Having the OKC Sonics with a 1979 World Championship isn’t going to mean anything to OKC citizens. They won’t be able to look back fondly of the great memories that the history Clay wants to take…so it is really a moot point. To me, the biggest thing I don’t get is why people think “HISTORY”/”MEMORY” is a tangible resource that can be taken from you by another human being.
Only one person in the world owns your memories and your sense of history. It is actually one of the few things that we truly enjoy a unique ownership of…that can never be transferred. If Clay moved to OKC and the Seattle Barons came into existance in Seattle do you not think that people would still talk about all the great Sonics teams as if they were part of the new team’s history? Do you not think that Steve Ballmer would not retire the #20 for Gary Payton? Do people in New Orleans talk about Grandmama/Zo and Mugsy Bouges…doubtful…but I bet the Bobcat fans do…
I hope all the people like Clint, T and ZenDoc understand this…the absolute only thing that Clay Bennett can take from us is our ability to create future memories…everything else is ours. Up until the day (BIG IF) they play their first game in the Ford Arena the Sonics team is our team. The people in OKC won’t have memories of KDs biggest games during his Rooke Year..we will…don’t let your hatred for a pitiful man make you lose that sight.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
I don’t want to see Nate and Lenny’s jerseys hanging up in the Ford Center rafters.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
I just read the old post 3 threads back when Clint sorta “lost it” and went off on SOS as sellouts. He had been attacked some before that, but the major attack on Clint came after that post of his. Unfortunately, I saw EJ’s attack on Clint in the next thread (2 threads ago) by itself, without seeing Clint’s post that came before that first. If I had seen Clint’s post first, I would have changed my tone a little there, because I kind of laid into EJ pretty hard about attacking Clint’s position. What I said was valid, but I would have toned it down some taking Clint’s post into account.
I think it’s abundantly clear that Clint completely misinterpreted Brian’s statement before his and somehow thought that Brian was selling out. I do love Clint’s enthusiasm and I hope he comes back and checks out how much furor he’s created since he left and realizes that a lot of people feel exactly as he does about the Sonics and will not accept an expansion team.
P.S.: Groz & Gas stopped talking Sonics Rally just as my comment was posting.
“SAVE THESE KD, JEFF G., & NICK C.- LED SONICS !!!!!!!”
June 9th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Brian Robinson Says:
June 9th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
“Because the guy has contributed so much to the cause…
He can have his position and we have ours.”
At no point do I remember the stated goals of SOS to be all or nothing.
To be clear, I am not an all or nothing guy either. There is a hierarchy of preferences I have as an individual that make fit situations that benefit me, my family, my city (I want the Seattle Center to progress), my blah-blah.
1. Keep the team. Clay is against me on this one so, I’m not on his team.
2. Keep a team called the Sonics. Clay is fighting me on this one, though he might not be the actual owner.
3. Get an expansion team. I really do not like this, but I will learn to make it work for the good of the many.
4. Get another team. I can only support this if the city involved would rather do something else with its new building, the fans are not even pretending to care, and the owner is selling (that’s a tall order to fill).
5. No team, NBA is dead to me.
I am not fond of every opinion that is ever posted here (even by me in hindsight), and I expect that mine are not the favorites; but make no mistake, I am here to support my interests.
We put up with others to achieve common goals, we do it every day we don’t ram a car into the person in front of us. If we can cut down on the roadrage on the information superhighway when traffic is congested with a variety of opinions we all might get to where we want to go (minus Clay, of course).
June 9th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
You guy need to lay off Clint & other fellow Sonics supporters. We’re all on the same side here, but you all pushed him so hard he’s against us now- it’s just going to decrease our turnout at the rally.
This is what happens when people can’t take a difference of opinion. You have to keep all options on the table I think, But if you have a different opinion, thats fine. Some people think there is only one option, You have to be willing to be flexible.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Also…I’ve used a similar argument as the one I outlined above for the support of building a new Arena. We don’t build Arena’s for millionaires and billionaires. We build Arena’s so that we can go watch sports/events as a community and create those amazing moments that can only be experienced when you are in a crowd of 14,000 of your fellow citizens.
The fact that Clay Bennett/Evil Sports Owner X makes money off this is sort of the cost of doing business…you shouldn’t sacrafice your happiness just because there is an unintended consequence that really isn’t relevant to your happiness.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
This board rocks and if somebody wants to go on perma-tilt and dis it, then just forget them and move on. Things can get heated in here, but you have to be able to forgive someone a fiery post and just keep the discussion moving. I think an expansion team will never happen for Seattle as long as Stern is commish because of his personal animosity to the area. That’s why you can count me in the “these Sonics or none category”. If the SOS main objective is to ensure there is NBA ball in town no matter what, then wouldn’t the next move be, if we lost the Sonics, to to start wooing the Grizzlies. Can somebody more knowledgeable than me please explain why anybody thinks Stern will give an expansion team.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
They won’t use the name. It has a terrible ring to it, and they don’t want NBA fans around the world to be reminded of this episode either everytime they see that name on espn, or elsewhere. They know they’re in the wrong, and they’ll do everything they can to cover that up, & make us all forget about what they did…
June 9th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
4. Get another team. I can only support this if the city involved would rather do something else with its new building, the fans are not even pretending to care, and the owner is selling (that’s a tall order to fill).
- This is another reason why I am OK with expansion…I’m sorry, but the one item I would by far have the hardest time with would be accepting another team from another city. Even if the government was ok with it and the majority of the people were ok with it I would have a hard time because despite how far the Sonics’ movement has come that is how many would characterize Seattle right now…so we’d be hypocrites.
I don’t want to see Nate and Lenny’s jerseys hanging up in the Ford Center rafters.
- Don’t worry…that would NEVER happen…that is why it is such a joke he would take the name and the history. He woudl take the name of course…and the team record book…but he would never leverage the history in that sense. It would just make him look like a totall a-hole.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
No offense to anybody but what does it matter what position SOS holds or what position we as fans hold? They aren’t going to ask any of us. Brian can say he wants no money settlement but so what? Zen can say he wants this team only but so what? Neither of them hold any power over any decision whatsoever. They may as well say “we don’t want temperatures over 80 degrees this summer”. They have no power, no say in that just as they don’t in what happens to the Sonics.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
epx is right, he will not use it.
he wants a fresh start, he has said so, and that’s WHY the logic would put a new team there.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Something about Bill Simmons’ article about how much Boston has changed over the last decade reminds me of Seattle…The “Big Dig” is the most expensive mess in history…but it got results done. Perhaps one day we will start moving forward with projects with an eye towards the greater good so that future generations can be happy here.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
I don’t want to see Nate and Lenny’s jerseys hanging up in the Ford Center rafters.
- Don’t worry…that would NEVER happen
Pete Maravich’s jersey is hanging up in Utah…
Bobby Phills’s jersey is hanging up in New Orleans…
June 9th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Maybe Stern doesn’t Ballmer in the club because he is afraid having another Mark Cuban in midst?
June 9th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
fed up, Clint was blasting Brian and SOS. As a matter of general discussion here or anywhere, I completely agree with you.
What you might want to concider is that SOS pushed for legislation that would bar the city from taking a buyout, that was a problem for Clay (so private email has shown), it clearly supported or influenced the mayor. So, the position they hold has had something to do (maybe just a little) with us being able to have this discussion right now.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Fed…
i dont think Brian and everyone else who has worked their a$$es off the last couple of years would agree with you… not my place to speak for them by any means… but with your attitude… why even try… without SOS… the Sonics would have allready been long gone.(imo)
June 9th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Bennett doesn’t have to use the name/history etc. He can rename the team and just file the Sonics copyrights, trademarks, intellectual property, etc. in his file cabinet (next to the closet he refers to as Clay & Davids love shack) and they could never see daylight again.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Sorry the above post should have read:
Maybe Stern doesn’t want Ballmer in the NBA because he is afraid having another Mark Cuban in his midst?
June 9th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
MYK, it is right ahead of no NBA and the NBA being dead to me. For others that might be higher, or as it is for you, not an option.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Myk, thread after thread you are pursuing the same mantra about accepting an expansion team. Not only is this continued browbeating divisive, it is also counterproductive when we are preparing for trial and the reports are that settlement is unlikely. We know your opinion, shared by about half the posters here, and then there are the other half who oppose an expansion team replacement.
I say, let’s all of us move on to the day’s events and let this issue go. Clint and others (including you and I) have passionate opinions on this issue. Nobody is changing their minds, but it is causing disunity and internal bickering. Let us try to retain the original team, and if we can’t, then we can revisit this issue.
This is especially the case since there is no indication that an expansion team is available or that Seattle would be able to finance the $1/2 billion dollar palace that the NBA would require to house the team or that any local group would purchase an expansion team. This issue may be a nonstarter, but talking about it is like throwing ice water on the passions of fans who need to unite to save this team.
June 9th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
My question is WHO ordered that survey, and HOW MANY OTHER surveys were ordered? It’s possible that Bennett ordered 50 different surveys with each worded differently, and he only got one of the 50 with results favorable to him. Does the company that does the survey publish every result? Or do they pass the results on to whoever ordered them??
We need more DISCOVERY on that survey…
June 9th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
I don’t want to see Nate and Lenny’s jerseys hanging up in the Ford Center rafters.
- Don’t worry…that would NEVER happen
Pete Maravich’s jersey is hanging up in Utah…
Bobby Phills’s jersey is hanging up in New Orleans…
June 9th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
For fun and giggles we should discuss what the new seattle-based ownership group could do for the on-the-court product. When was the last time we signed a big-time free agent in their prime? If these owners will be as competitive in the NBA as they are in the regular business world the Sonics would be big in this town again. The Seahawks will probably always be number one (especially after we win the super bowl this season!), but there is room for the supes and we all know it.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
Oh, and since they are already doing a name contest at the OKC rag, (don’t know if it’s finished or what won), I’m also sure they won’t keep the name. But Bennett can claim rights to the Sonics name. If we got an expansion team, we could either fight in court for that name, or call our new team the “Seattle Sonics”. Nobody owns that one… (Yes, that means technically we’d be the Seattle “Seattle Sonics”. People would NATURALLY shorten it to simply the Sonics…)
June 9th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Kryten-
It wouldn’t even have to be the Seattle “Seattle Sonics”. It could just be the Seattle Sonics, since the current team is the Seattle SUPERSonics. So, you’d have one team called the Sonics, & one called the SuperSonics. Similar, but so are the Reds & Red Sox… or Red Sox & White Sox
June 9th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Myk, thread after thread you are pursuing the same mantra about accepting an expansion team. Not only is this continued browbeating divisive, it is also counterproductive when we are preparing for trial and the reports are that settlement is unlikely. We know your opinion, shared by about half the posters here, and then there are the other half who oppose an expansion team replacement.
- My only stance…which is the stance of more than half the people around is:
1) That the City/SOS should NEVER back itself into a corner when in a negotiation. The only item that should be a basic non-negotiable is “continuous presence”
2) The word “settlement” should not be considered a dirty word on this board or in this situation.
3) Clay Bennett cannot take away our memories for the Sonics and therefore it is not a reasonable response to why an expansion team is unacceptable.
4) Other reasons like an expansion team being not very good for a X amount of years and the desire to see Kevin Durant are flimsy reasons at best.
The biggest issues for me are 1 through 3….people are entitled to their opinions but when they flip out because the term settlement comes up in a news article or from someone within SOS they create the environment where others flip out and that is what I feel is the most divisive.
The Sonics are Nothing camp are the vocal minority…
June 9th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
Rock is right enough, let’s work on the lease issue. And then burn the other bridges as we approach them, uh, I mean, cross those bridges if we get to them.
Opinions of the future will give way to the facts of the now when we all get there.
I am trying to take Tuesday off so I can see if I can get in to court to watch.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
My question is WHO ordered that survey, and HOW MANY OTHER surveys were ordered? It’s possible that Bennett ordered 50 different surveys with each worded differently, and he only got one of the 50 with results favorable to him. Does the company that does the survey publish every result? Or do they pass the results on to whoever ordered them??
We need more DISCOVERY on that survey…
- Steve Ballmer’s group ordered the survey…
June 9th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Opinions of the future will give way to the facts of the now when we all get there.
- I agree…
June 9th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Clay has learned his lessons from David really well. If the opponent will not buckle or bend over for you, then make empty threats to scare them. David’s good at it. Now Clay’s trying his hand at it.
Clay: “If you guys don’t settle this thing now, I’m gonna take the Sonics name with me to OKC. Waddya think of that, huh? If you take our money now, I’ll let you keep the name, too, and I’ll throw in your History for Free. Now, isn’t that much better for everybody”?
Doesn’t that just sound like Clay is getting a bit more desperate as we get closer to trial? Just a wee bit desperate? Or maybe about to be a whole-lot desperate?
What do you guys think about that tactic?
June 9th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Trademarks and copyrights are different.
To maintain a trademark, you actually have to continue to use it. Bennett couldn’t just “file it away”- his two options would be to call the team the Oklahoma City (Super)Sonics or to allow any other owner to use the name.
And I have no idea why taking the colors would be an issue. Look at how many teams in the league are black and red.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Baker/AD, you are right, initially SOS did throw a wrench in the works (even though their barring of settlement isn’t official). But all they have to do is remove the wrench and things continue without any regard to our feelings.
The city get an amazing offer and then think ‘we better check with SOS to make sure we can take it’. Clay won’t say ‘we better check with Zen/Clint before we take the this team’.
Before the trial the city will do whatever gets them off the hook with the least amount of political/reputation damage and Clay will do what he wants to do.
After the trial they will all do what the judge says.
Nowhere in that process will the SOS/Zen red phone be picked up for consultation.
That is what I am saying.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
“The SOS/Zen red phone”
LOL
June 9th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
i don’t see the colors as an issue. i don’t think you can trademark a color scheme. to me the biggest issue is the history. like i said, i don’t want to see Nate, Lenny, Spencer, Gus, Jack and Freddie’s jerseys in the Ford Center rafters. and I ESPECIALLY don’t want to see OUR 1979 championship banner hanging up there.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
and you’re essentially right… just probably not the best time to be telling them they have no (or very little) control over it… what SOS has done… and will do… is amazing.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Corrected:
Baker/AD, you are right, initially SOS did throw a wrench in the works (even though their barring of settlement isn’t binding). But all they have to do is remove the wrench and things continue without any regard to our feelings.
The city won’t get an amazing offer and then think ‘we better check with SOS to make sure we can take it’. Clay won’t say ‘we better check with Zen/Clint before we take the this team’.
Before the trial the city will do whatever gets them off the hook with the least amount of political/reputation damage and Clay will do what he wants to do.
After the trial they will all do what the judge says.
Nowhere in that process will the SOS/Zen red phone be picked up for consultation.
That is what I am saying. We are all just along for the ride so it makes no sense to argue over differing positions that hold little weight to the outcome.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
I was trying to think logically on this situation so I want to pass this by you:
1. Isn’t it true that the Seattle City Council passes something that limits how this can all be settled?
2. And doesn’t that include the only acceptable solution means a continuing NBA presence in Seattle?
3. There are many reports that there are settlement discussions ongoing right now.
4. So . . . that means to me that there would be no ongoing settlement discussions if that did not include an NBA team for Seattle.
5. If those discussions break down, that means that the NBA will not bend on helping this situation come to an end that is acceptable to Seattle.
I guess what I am saying is that there is a very good possibility that Seattle will retain an NBA team in some form.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
“It is kind of hard to have discussions when one party says “it is my way or the highway”.”
Completely agree. But there are people on both sides saying stuff like that.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
“This is why I consider the side that is OK with expansion the logical side. It provides a much greater chance of success of creating the greatest amount of happiness for the Region’s citizens.
In my eyes, the only goal is keeping the NBA in Seattle. Everything else is a moot point because the past does not matter. Nothing can remove people’s memories of the great Sonics teams from the past. Nothing can make Clay Bennett and David Stern any less horrible of individuals. This has all already happened and history will judge it to happen.
Now I would like to have a team to support so that I have the ability to create new memories. Without a team the memories of the old team will be all we have left.”
I will have to disagree with your thoughts on which is the the logical side. 1st question would be what are the odds of expansion? What are the chances of a new franchise within the next 2 yrs? How is the NBA doing now are there teams with financial problems? Has anyone with authority mentioned expansion in a iron clad manner?
Or is it mostly mentioned by David Stern making some refrence to not coming back if we don’t bend over? Does that mean if we bend over they will come? Or does the thought of some possible un committed expansion team just weaken peoples resolve and make leaving that much easier? So IMO unless you come up with diffrent answers than I do. Discussing expansion in this situation unless it is OFFERED in a iron clad manner is a waste of our time and energy. Because as I see it the only goal should be to keep this team in seattle. No other team exists and none at this point has been promised.
Ever been to the dog races? Ever see the dog catch the rabbit? Expansion is seattle’s rabbit and they would like us to run ourselves
out chasing it.
And as far as the past not mattering we would not be in this fight if it were not for the past 41 yrs. So clearly and logically it does.
But either one of us could be right or wrong. Time will tell. SOS!!!
June 9th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
“In my eyes, the only goal is keeping the NBA in Seattle. ”
Myk…thats the point, in YOUR eyes. Yes a lot of people feel that way, but as its been established not everyone does. There are also a lot of people who will be done with the NBA if they succeed in taking our team and that is how we see it in OUR eyes.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
and I’ll be the first to say… and I can because I’m from OK… if your championship banner was hanging in the Ford Center… one of us Okies would look up and say… Hey… we won a championship in 79.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
Rocks posting at 3:56 says it all!
June 9th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
note…
previous post was to make fun of myself and others i live with… in no way suggesting i want your team… or would claim your championship from 79…
June 9th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
Thanks for clarifying AD. I was unsure for a second.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
If Clay really did make threats to take the name if this goes too far then that is the best news EVER. It means his proverbial cage is rattled and that means someone close to him told him something that indicated that his plans might not work out… I say someone told him because there is no way he thinks for himself. He is just the messenger boy for Stern.
June 9th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
I’ve made that mistake before… lol
lets just say i got a “slight scolding”… also known around here as “getting my a$$ chewed out”…
June 9th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
QUOTE
“Myk Says:
- Steve Ballmer’s group ordered the survey… ”
DOH!
never mind
June 9th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
i dont post all that often, but im in clints corner also (to an extent) i am not interested in any way in watching an expansion team, however if it comes to that then im not going to say dont take it. i wont ever watch it, but at least all of you can. i think maybe clint and some others need to consider this point. without sos the team no doubt would have been gone months ago. i have no desire what so ever of watching an expansion team, but i wont stop others from doing so if its the bes out come. i take my hat off to brian and sos for the more than incredible effort they have put in. i hop all of you at the rally will give an extra large shout out for us aussie fans who cant attend.
June 9th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
In my eyes, the only goal is keeping the NBA in Seattle.
I could give a damned less about the NBA, I only care about the Sonics. I don’t watch the NBA unless the Sonics are playing and I don’t think the NBA product is really that great. I have been boycotting these playoffs on principle and I haven’t missed it a bit.
Does anyone really think there will be much support for an arena if the Sonics aren’t here? Good luck with that if that is the case. There was no support when the Sonics were owned by local ownership, I doubt there is any support if there is no team. Once this team leaves I’d vote against anything to do with having an NBA team here. I’m going to get some Husky season tickets and just chill.
June 9th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
There are 2 surveys. One done by the PBC about the time they were making their threats to move. One by Ballmer around the time that they were considering making their proposal.
June 9th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Once this team leaves I’d vote against anything to do with having an NBA team here.
That would put you in the majority group of constituents that never gave a damn about the Sonics in the first place. Typical Seattle attitude… “if it doesn’t suit my needs, by golly i’m gonna make sure nobody else in my community enjoys the benefits of such & such. Over my dead pocketbook!”
June 9th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
I don’t see why Seattle fans wouldn’t want to support a Ballmer group ownership. Being a Seahawk fan, I have very much enjoyed an owner who has very deep pockets.
June 9th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Dick, I don’t think that’s the attitude at all. If the Sonics leave and we are promised another team, it would be so empty. I may change my mind in the future, but, for now, I could not support that team. It would be a completely hollow “victory” because I would know that justice had not prevailed, that the Bad Guys won and that we lost OUR SONICS whom I loved so much. I think we are all fighting for real justice here and to expose the corruption that exists and not let Clay, PBC, and Stern take unfair advantage of us.
The only thing in the world that makes any sense is to fight for OUR SEATTLE SONICS and get any ideas of an expansion team out of your head. If Stern & Clay win, do you really want to take another team (scraps)from this corrupt league? I would sooner see Stern go to jail for his crimes and I am willing to put my efforts toward that end rather than support Stern’s corrupt regime. Doesn’t that make sense to you? That’s what Clint and T and Rock and Stone (I think) and a lot of other people and I are saying. This is one of the most corrupt things that Stern has ever done and it’s time that he be removed from office.
June 9th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Where’s Warren Moon, he use to attend a lot a Sonic games
June 9th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
I will be there for the rally, and do the little I can to help out SOS, even if it means an expansion team. But like zen says, it will be a hollow victory. I don’t crave the NBA no matter what. and thats from a family that lives and breathes basketball during the winter months. Nothing else is on tv in our household during those months but NBATV. BUT, if it comes down to an expansion, I cannot and will not support it. It has nothing to do with a ‘me’ attitude’. No matter what the love, enough is enough. Some say they will follow the NBA no matter what, even with no local team. My line in the sand comes before that, thats all.
While I understand some peoples emotion of accepting a team no matter what, don’t so easily blast those that have already supported this team for decades and have spent tens of thousands of dollars on tickets and jerseys, but decided that another team is not right. Like I said, I will do what I can if that is what people want, but don’t demand that I follow afterwards.
June 9th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Well, if that is what you have to do for yourself, so be it.
June 9th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
300, I win
Let’s focus on the facts.
June 9th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
If Stern & Clay win, do you really want to take another team (scraps)from this corrupt league? I would sooner see Stern go to jail for his crimes and I am willing to put my efforts toward that end rather than support Stern’s corrupt regime.
So if this rendition of the team ends up staying by whatever process, does that mean you’ll no longer consider the league to be corrupt and will happily support it as if nothing ever happened?
June 9th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Um what about the trial.. lets focus on the Rally and the Trial.
How do we drive it into the medias head that it is the PBC vs City of Seattle
Alexie being apart of the trial will bring some intelligence to the conversation.
Will this trial be filmed and available to the public? if not I would love to get the tapes via ‘Freedom of Information Act’ someday.
June 9th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
I hesitate to mention this but I saw a Court TV truck in E WA last Saturday. That may mean nothing, though. I don’t know what they might be broadcasting from our State.
June 9th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Dick, to answer your question - In no way will I ever act as if nothing ever happened - how could anyone do that? I think that’s a bit of an insult to say that. But I would revel in a victory over some absolutely corrupt men who tried to screw you and me and everyone in Washington, and all Sonics fans everywhere over. If we keep the Sonics, I will support my team even though to some extent it means supporting the NBA while David Stern is still the Commissioner, IF he is still the commissioner. But I will also do anything I can to expose the bastard for what he is. Also, can you imagine the kind of Victory party that we will have when we are victorious and know that the Sonics are staying here - and then compare that to the “Victory” party we will have if we end up with an expansion team or another team. Big, big letdown. Big whoop. Who would come out to celebrate that???? Apparently about 33 Die-Hard Save Our Sonics members and maybe 13 other people in the Pacific Northwest. Don’t you think? Totally Hollow.
June 9th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
VERSION 2 - Dick, to answer your question - In no way will I ever act as if nothing ever happened - how could anyone do that? But I would revel in a victory over some absolutely corrupt men who tried to screw over you and me and everyone in Washington, and all Sonics fans everywhere.
If we keep the Sonics, I will support my team even though to some extent it means supporting the NBA while David Stern is still the Commissioner, IF he is still the commissioner. But I will also do anything I can to expose the bastard for what he is.
Also, can you imagine the kind of VICTORY PARTY that we will have when we are victorious and know that the Sonics are staying here!! THAT WILL BE ABSOLUTELY THE MOST INCREDIBLE FEELING IN THE WORLD - and then compare that to the “Victory” party we will have if we end up with an expansion team or another team. Big, big letdown. Big whoop.
Who would come out to celebrate that???? Apparently about 33 Die-Hard Save Our Sonics members and maybe 13 other people in the Pacific Northwest. Don’t you think? Totally Hollow.
June 9th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Court TV was broadcasting the Jewish Community Center shooting trial (now Tru TV or something like that).
I would like to support/promote a Sonic’s Green Day on Monday, like the old days of the playoffs (for any team at the time). Lets get the city behind the Sonics with Green!
June 9th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Another group that I am a member of held a rally at the capitol. It seems to me that you need a permit otherwise you will be asked to leave.
Is anyone in charge of the permit, or know the ‘rules’ of holding a rally?
June 9th, 2008 at 8:08 pm
It wasn’t meant to be an insult. It just seems like the all or nothing group is operating with an attitude that they are disgusted with the league as a whole and I was just wondering how that disgust would be resolved by any outcome. Personally, i’ve accepted the warts that come with professional sports because I love the product and level of competition. Win or lose with these Sonics, i’ll continue to be a fan. I’d rather the team stays but if the team leaves, i’ll eagerly welcome a replacement team in the future rather than go without, regardless of the snakes that run the league. If I was overly concerned about the way professional sports leagues operated or what tactics the owners used to extort new facilities, I doubt i’d be a fan of any professional sport. So I just try to push all that crap aside and just enjoy the product on the floor/field.
On the other hand… I used to be a huge MLB fan but lost interest in the league after the series was cancelled. Even the 95 season and the building of Safeco Field couldn’t resolve my disgust/disdain. The NBA has been #1 with me for 35 years, so maybe i’m afraid to let the level of disgust I felt for baseball creep into my mind towards the NBA out of fear that i’ll never love the game again whether or not the Supes stay or go.
June 9th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
“Win or lose with these Sonics, i’ll continue to be a fan. ”
but what if the ’sonics’ in whatever form leaves… would you still be a fan of the NBA??? would you then become a blazers fan, just to have the NBA in your life. Would you then buy a Blazers ticket package, start wearing an Oden jersey?
I guess some of us has decided what is or not acceptable to us as individuals to continue being a fan, is there ANY point where YOU won’t watch the NBA?
June 9th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Cat in the Hat be assured that won’t be a problem
June 9th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
I have quite a bit of family near Portland, so following the Blazers more closely wouldn’t be a problem. There are a number of teams throughout the league I like to follow. Been a Spurs fan since the early 90’s. The Celtics are the soup de jour.
June 9th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
is there ANY point where YOU won’t watch the NBA?
I suppose if it ever gets to the point where there is a TV timeout every time the ball goes out of bounds or there is a made basket, like the NCAA did during the championship game.
June 9th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
DTate, I think there are some who love the Sonics in spite of the NBA, so that’s how they’re fine keeping this team, while at the same time opposing expansion. Keeping this team will feel like victory as well to some, whereas expansion will feel like defeat to those who are fed up, so that could be another angle.
June 10th, 2008 at 6:56 am
Aren’t you all-or-nothings announcing that you’re willing to cut off your nose to spite your face? Imagine if Seattle’s (and SOS’s, since it’s the grasswork player here) official policy was scorched earth. Keeping the possibility of an expansion team on the table doesn’t mean that keeping the existing team isn’t the priority, but rejecting the possibility outright effectively rejects the best and most compelling reason for the city to be fighting this fight at all: is the NBA beneficial for Seattle or not? If its constituents don’t care about the NBA and what it brings to this community, why would the city be pursuing this–to support a bunch of passionate hobbyists? What will the loss, not of the Sonics specifically, but of basketball generally, mean for the future of Seattle Center and surrounding businesses and thus the city, the state? If you argue on the one hand this question really matters, you pull the rug out on the other hand, and with it stab in the back those for whom you just expressed concern, with this talk of scorched earth. It makes you hypocrites. There’s way more at stake here than you and your hobby.
Which isn’t to say that it isn’t exactly your passion that the NBA stands to alienate by forcing a settlement solution. But you can be sure the NBA is mindful of the repercussions of fight, despite their rhetoric. It’s fortunate that all sides are being led by collectively cooler heads pursing maximal solutions to everyone’s advantage rather than just personal passion without compromise. Personal passion might be where the game is lost. See e-mail exhibits….
June 10th, 2008 at 10:15 am
Jesus, why do you all feel so compelled to change each other’s minds on an issue that you have zero control over?
Myk, I love your fallacy ridden posts about logic. Your posts are the antithesis of logic. Saying that because a person’s opinion is in the minority that it’s irrational, illogical, or irrelevant just kind of shows how much of a coward you are.
The two sides are very easy to understand: The “all-or-nothing” crowd feel that if this injustice occurs, they’ll be turned off enough to lose interest in the NBA entirely. Believe it or not, some people can actually move on from NBA basketball and find other things to do with their lives. That’s what Myk and many others don’t understand. Tell me Myk, how is that illogical in any form?
The other side, those who aren’t completely averse to settling, would reluctantly sacrifice this pathetic team in hopes that we can get an expansion franchise in the near future. That’s pretty cut and dry and makes plenty of sense.
So can we move on?
June 10th, 2008 at 10:21 am
“What will the loss, not of the Sonics specifically, but of basketball generally, mean for the future of Seattle Center and surrounding businesses and thus the city, the state?”
Are you sure that’s a question for the “all-or-nothings”, or maybe your elected public officials?
“you just expressed concern, with this talk of scorched earth. It makes you hypocrites. There’s way more at stake here than you and your hobby”
Dude, please. There’s a very good reason David Stern chose to use the words “scorched earth”, and it has nothing to do with what’s actually happening. Are you sure that you want to start parroting his BS?
June 10th, 2008 at 10:57 am
Are you sure that’s a question for the “all-or-nothings”, or maybe your elected public officials?
It’s a question for both of them; only one of them is taking it seriously.
Dude, please. There’s a very good reason David Stern chose to use the words “scorched earth”, and it has nothing to do with what’s actually happening. Are you sure that you want to start parroting his BS?
You’re right, it isn’t actually happening because those in power positions in this fight are being sensible. I’m addressing those on this board who would prove Stern right to spite him. That’s all.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:13 am
“You’re right, it isn’t actually happening because those in power positions in this fight are being sensible.”
Really? Sensible by who’s standards? The last thing I heard was that the City hasn’t been in contact with anyone from the PBC or the NBA with regards to a settlement. I also don’t recall anyone in a position of power talking about expansion as a likely outcome, unless you consider Fred Brown or Ron Sims to be power players in this.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:24 am
The two sides are very easy to understand: The “all-or-nothing” crowd feel that if this injustice occurs, they’ll be turned off enough to lose interest in the NBA entirely. Believe it or not, some people can actually move on from NBA basketball and find other things to do with their lives. That’s what Myk and many others don’t understand. Tell me Myk, how is that illogical in any form?
- I can live without the NBA we have been over this. Thanks for calling me a coward though…also that is not what I consider illogical. Here are things that I consider illogical:
1) Saying that accepting an expansion team if offered is some how letting David Stern and the NBA win?
2) That by saying “no” to an expansion team somehow is proving a point to David Stern. Like he is going to go home and cry because we’ve proven him some moral point
3) That saying you are supporting the Sonics or Nothing side because of the kids…when an expansion team would provide the kids with just as much enjoyment as the Sonics.
4) Finally, and most importantly…that having an expansion team without Kevin Durant would somehow invalidate all history and events that have occurred previously in Sonics basketball. This is something that is not possible and therefore illogical.
—
All in all…I get it…you don’t really like me…this somehow makes it impossible for you to agree with anything I say. You can keep calling me out. Sometimes you are right, other times you look like dumb. What is funny is that all the things you say to try and put me down are things you’ve done in the past.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:29 am
It wasn’t meant to be an insult. It just seems like the all or nothing group is operating with an attitude that they are disgusted with the league as a whole and I was just wondering how that disgust would be resolved by any outcome.
- Good point Dick (I’ve been agreeing with you more and more lately)…that is another item in my “illogical” bucket.
5) People are talking about how horrible the NBA is and how David Stern is the devil and they therefore wouldn’t support an expansion team…and I guess I don’t understand if these people truly feel this way that they could even support the Sonics if they stayed.
How is supporting the Seattle Barons instead of the Seattle Sonics any different when it comes to supporting David Stern in the NBA?
It feels like a sitaution where your wife leaves you for another man and you fight as hard as you can to get her back just to prove that you can…not because you really like her.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Myk, I don’t remember anyone saying the things you listed, so that would just be you making things up, which would be typical.
I don’t really have anything personal against you. I read this blog everyday, and for the most part, I refrain from saying much. But you seem willing to go to any length to make an “argument”, and that includes putting words into others mouths, and I get sick of reading that devising garbage.
I commented and called you a coward because anytime you think you’re in the majorty on something, you take every advantage to call an individual out, so I think you deserve to be called out, and it’s conveniently easy to do.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:48 am
“It feels like a sitaution where your wife leaves you for another man and you fight as hard as you can to get her back just to prove that you can…not because you really like her.”
Yes, because the “all-or-nothings” don’t really like the Sonics, they just enjoy following sports-related court cases. That’s a perfect analogy.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:49 am
I think it’s a fatal negotiating flaw to admit you’d settle for an expansion team and then try to push for keeping THIS team.
If Bennett/Stern (BS) KNOW we would accept a new team, then they can hold firm to that knowing we would (eventually) take it.
The only power we have is to say “this team or we go through all the trials and drag you through as much hell as possible.”
My fear is that they (BS) will offer a new team, with all the draft restrictions, no cap relief, no trade exceptions, a minimal lease buyout, AND charge the new owners a hefty fee, PLUS make the whole thing contingent on having an NBA-approved arena under construction. We would also keep the name and colors. In return everyone would have to drop their suits.
To me, that would be a major sell-out, and I would be most unpleased if we (Seattle) took it.
When you tell your opponent what you’d be willing to settle for, you remove his incentive to offer anything more than that.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:53 am
I’m not saying whether I’d support an expansion team here or not. I’m only talking tactics.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:53 am
Really? Sensible by who’s standards? The last thing I heard was that the City hasn’t been in contact with anyone from the PBC or the NBA with regards to a settlement. I also don’t recall anyone in a position of power talking about expansion as a likely outcome, unless you consider Fred Brown or Ron Sims to be power players in this.
You got me. Surely things have not been conducted as well as they could have been by the city. Sorry for the lack of nuance. But: relative to the matter of whether or not to allow an expansion settlement to the table, there is a standard of sensibility and all-or-nothing isn’t it. By whose standards? Mine of course! How does it jibe with yours?
Myk echoes one of my points: all-or-nothing completely contradicts the cultural- and economic-value arguments for keeping the Sonics, and those are arguments I suspect the all-or-nothings (rightly characterized as scorched-earthers) have probably found themselves making at some point or another, if they aren’t making them still. Can’t have it both ways.
But, like I said, neither can Stern.
June 10th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
I did not have time to read all of the above posts. I did see Clint’s post on the PI forum yesterday. I feel sorry for the guy.
Both sides have different priorities. If your primary goal is to give it to Stern then the these Sonics or bust position is perfectly logical. If your primary goal is to have a long-term NBA presence in Seattle then leaving other options open is the most logical decision.
At this point, we fans have very little power or influence on what happens. The courts, the mayor’s office, PBC, OKC goverment and the NBA will be making the decision. We can use what little power we have, but after that we are at their mercy. All we get to do is flap our gums.
By the way, I do have a red phone that connects directly to Stern’s office.
June 10th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Moffet, just so you know, I’d root for any NBA team in Seattle, though I’d really prefer we didn’t jack some other city’s team.
I just don’t think these two arguments are so hard to understand on their own. People are getting way off course talking about the “possible” ramifications of one side getting their way. We’re not in control over the situation, and the most we can do is support the City in their litigation efforts. To talk as if guys like Clint have any bearing on what will actually transpire is just overboard. Clint was overboard, and I don’t blame people for arguing with him, but don’t make it sound as if the future of Seattle basketball hinges on whether or not he, or others accept an expansion team. That’ll be up to the Mayor.
June 10th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
I commented and called you a coward because anytime you think you’re in the majorty on something, you take every advantage to call an individual out, so I think you deserve to be called out, and it’s conveniently easy to do.
- That is remarkably funny. Most people wouldn’t say I am in the majority of many of my opinions…this one happens to be different though.
Myk, I don’t remember anyone saying the things you listed, so that would just be you making things up, which would be typical.
- Which one them do you not remember?
June 10th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
To echo Dick’s point…if you are not willing to support an expansion franchise, why would you be willing to support the Sonics if they stayed?
What is the difference between the two things?
This seems like a simple answer…but it really isn’t…the only difference is the players on the team and I find it surprising that someone would be willing to give up NBA basketball only because of Kevin Durant. Also, that makes me wonder if Yi Jinalian had been the Sonics draft pick…does that mean you wouldn’t be trying so hard to keep the Sonics here?
June 10th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
“- That is remarkably funny. Most people wouldn’t say I am in the majority of many of my opinions…this one happens to be different though.”
What’s remarkably funny is that… you just did it again! “most people wouldn’t say I am in the …” Nobody gives a shit what other people would say, get your own opinion.
“Finally, and most importantly…that having an expansion team without Kevin Durant would somehow invalidate all history and events that have occurred previously in Sonics basketball. This is something that is not possible and therefore illogical.”
I never once saw a post that resembled this ^
“2) That by saying “no” to an expansion team somehow is proving a point to David Stern. Like he is going to go home and cry because we’ve proven him some moral point”
This statement ^ is a typical case of Myk twisting the hell out of people’s words. The only thing remotely similar to this statement that I’ve read would be that we shouldn’t accept an expansion team because we already have one. Never saw the rest of that absurd BS posted anywhere.
“3) That saying you are supporting the Sonics or Nothing side because of the kids…when an expansion team would provide the kids with just as much enjoyment as the Sonics.
Now THIS one really takes the cake. I have never seen anyone bring their children into the argument unless it fit the mold of “I’d settle for another team because I want to take my kids to NBA basketball games”
So go ahead and gather some proof, as you always like to say, because the burden of proof for these retarded accusations lies on you.
June 10th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
What’s remarkably funny is that… you just did it again! “most people wouldn’t say I am in the …” Nobody gives a shit what other people would say, get your own opinion.
- LOL what? So even if I use the majority opinion that says I am usually in the minority that is wrong?
I will work on the other ones…Clint has used all of those arguments.
For example:
The SOS movement appears to be pushing hard for a settlement, would be thrilled with an expansion team in Seattle, and would be giddy to continue giving David Stern money in any way possible. What’s a fan to do? I always thought SOS stood for Save Our Sonics, but now I’m under the impression that it stand for either Settle or Sell Our Sonics
How does this not equate to number 2…? That we should bow down to Stern and accept an expansion team. Of course two different threads have been deleted, but if you don’t think that Clint has used this issue as a battle of ethics then you haven’t been following closely. At one point he pointed out I was just as unethical because I do not think a boycott of Starbucks is worth anything.
June 10th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
“I will work on the other ones…Clint has used all of those arguments.”
Who? Clint, oh my bad, I though you were talking about all those illogical “all-or-nothing” folks that you keep referring to. Why didn’t you just address Clint instead of referring to -”People are talking about how horrible the NBA is…” - people?
“What’s remarkably funny is that… you just did it again! “most people wouldn’t say I am in the …” Nobody gives a shit what other people would say, get your own opinion.
- LOL what? So even if I use the majority opinion that says I am usually in the minority that is wrong?
“Even if I use the majority opinion”, yeah LOL. You make it too easy.
June 10th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
This was all from one thread:
Clint Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
My SAVE THESE SONICS message has just as much to do with enforcing accountability, demonstrating civic responsibility, upholding historical ties, and preserving integrity as they do with striving to SAVE THESE KD & GREEN LED SONICS OR BUST!!!
- Accountability/preserving integriy ties to argument two
- Demonstrating civic responsibility lead to his “for the kids” comments.
- Upholding historical ties to argument number
ZenDoc Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
I, like you, (and most of us here) am a true believer in saving Our Sonics and not letting David Stern and Clay Bennett get away with an injustice of unparalelled proportions in the Sports World.
We have a voice. Let’s use it. We have a right to be angry - very angry! Either we keep the Sonics or David Stern is going down. I mean it. That’s the approach we need to take IMO. But, we don’t need a violent demonstration. We need a large, vocal demonstration with lots of media coverage and lots of interviews with our people. We need signs and we need chants. I am not sure where we are in the permit process, but I will check. What do you say?
Stone Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
Am I emotional? Damned right! Isn’t that what being invested in a sports team is all about? Am I just supposed to forget all the history leading up to Durant and Green and pretend it didn’t happen? I’m so sick of all these people talking about the Cleveland solution. Is that what we aspire to be, Cleveland “fricking” Ohio? I could care less if the name is the Sonics, the Thunderbirds, the fricking Rainiers…I just want this team to stay.
ZenDoc Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Stone, you are sooo right on! If you aren’t following the Sonics and being a fan (of any team) for EMOTIONAL reasons, then I would submit that you (Myk, e.g.) are a robot, some other type of computer, or a Vulcan. We are fighting for what is rightfully ours - that has been taken from us by deception condoned, if not initiated by the commissioner of the NBA, and he really would like to just sweep this under the rug - say it’s a done deal, and hope that we back off.
Myk, I don’t know if you are an apologist for the NBA or PBC or whose payroll you might be on, but expansion in Seattle makes absolutely no sense and it does not undo the crime that has been done. It is not justice. It is not restitution for their acts. In no way does it make us whole. Face it, Myk - An Expansion team in Seattle is an insult to all the loyal fans and a complete travesty. I would much rather fight the NBA and PBC and LOSE and NEVER have NBA basketball in Seattle again than be served the scraps from the meal.
At least we would go down with some Honor & Integrity, as weird as you think those things are, and the NBA would be forever scarred. It would signal the end for David Stern because it will get so much more publicity than it is now that everyone will know that it was in fact David Stern who colluded with Clay Bennett to steal Seattle’s Sonics and the world won’t stand for his behavior, even though you apparently do. Sometimes you just have to fight for what’s right & not accept their B.S. Too bad that you can’t see this.
ZenDoc Says:
June 5th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
The NBA could have shills on this blog who are trying to promote that rumor and accepting an expansion franchise.
Myk did not post the info about David Stern being on Mike and Mike. That was Rmcd. Myk may be employed by David Stern so I don’t think he would want us to know that. I never saw this one LOL
June 10th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
“- Accountability/preserving integriy ties to argument two
- Demonstrating civic responsibility lead to his “for the kids” comments.
- Upholding historical ties to argument number”
Well, though I must concede that those comments are pretty off the wall, your inferences of how each of these “ties” into your “points” is equally bad.
For example - this statement… - My SAVE THESE SONICS message has just as much to do with enforcing accountability, demonstrating civic responsibility, upholding historical ties, and preserving integrity as they do with striving to SAVE THESE KD & GREEN LED SONICS OR BUST!!!
…can best be summarized as this?… “That saying you are supporting the Sonics or Nothing side because of the kids…when an expansion team would provide the kids with just as much enjoyment as the Sonics.”
Yeah, way to make it nice and concise. Where did he mention doing it for the kids?
I’ll also give you that paranoid quote from Zendoc about you being an NBA mole. That’s rich, but it doesn’t have anything to do with the “points” you posted. None of the quotes you posted are anywhere near as extreme as what you listed, minus Zendoc I guess.
You’re taking the worst points from a very select few and ignoring the rest and making sweeping generalizations about what’s logical. Basically, you’re dong the exact same thing as Clint and Zendoc, just on the other end of the debate.
June 10th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
You’re taking the worst points from a very select few and ignoring the rest and making sweeping generalizations about what’s logical. Basically, you’re dong the exact same thing as Clint and Zendoc, just on the other end of the debate.
- I just went through one thread…if I went through more I would have additional quotes that just continue to build out the story.
Because I’ve read Clints posts I know that his discussion of cultural value relates to how he believes that this is more or less an ethical battle…a battle between good and evil and that we need to do this to prove to our kids what is right and wrong.
In a thread previous to this Clint basically said I had no integrity because I am OK with an expansion team. It was very clear to him that this is some sort of moral issue and I just don’t agree. I have gotten this impression from others as well.
It isn’t illogical to not want to support an expansion team. Everyone has a personal preference to do what makes them happy or not happy. The things that I am pointing out as illogical (IMO) are the basis for their reasoning (such as the ones outlined above).
In the end, we always state our opinions…and we will do whatever our opinions direct us to. When topics like this come up I would just like to see a stronger reasoning then what is being used.
The most obvious example is the tagline that people like Clint used:
“SAVE THESE KD & GREEN LED SONICS OR BUST”
By including KD and Green in this tagline he is saying there is some sort of value to the fact that they play for the Sonics as a reason to keep the team. Does that mean if KD and Green hadn’t been on the Sonics would he have not wanted to keep the team here? I doubt that is the case…if I am right…it shouldn’t be used as an argument.
June 10th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
SAVE THESE KD AND GREEN LED SONICS!!!
June 10th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
Gonna have to win “the lottery” to get into the courthouse for the trial. Here’s the article:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/366584_trialbar11.html
June 11th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
“Because I’ve read Clints posts I know that his discussion of cultural value relates to how he believes that this is more or less an ethical battle…a battle between good and evil and that we need to do this to prove to our kids what is right and wrong.
In a thread previous to this Clint basically said I had no integrity because I am OK with an expansion team. It was very clear to him that this is some sort of moral issue and I just don’t agree. I have gotten this impression from others as well. ”
Perhaps I am missunderstanding you but if this is not an ethical battle why are we in court. Why was the SOS group formed why have so many supported it? I am not as rabid as Clint but understand his passion and belief that some fights are worth it regardless of the outcome. I am also of the firm belief that there will be no NBA expansion in the US. There is nothing at this point to compell them to want to add another team and dilute their product further. When they can wait to rape a European or Asian City far easier. And they’ve already said they want to. I don’t believe we can take down David Stern & the NBA. But a bloody nose and a big fat lip is in order and within reach. I am also of the strong belief that when in a fight (Which We Are) U fight. If at some time in the battle the other side wishes to negotiate I would listen to any concrete proposal they would have to offer. So far the’ve only gone so far as to threaten more damage than their original intent. “Now I’ll take the name and everything else. No new team in Seattle in the future if you keep fighting back.”
See how he hands out the HOPE card. Just give up this team and HOPE another will come. It’s intent is to weaken our resolve to focus our attention away from the fight. Instead of fighting to win with all your might you HOPE for a happy conclusion. An expansion team coming to Seattle! At what venue? We are going to get support for and expansion team to have a new or refurbished venue in the 300 - 500 Million dollar range the NBA asks for? When we could not get it for the team that spent the last 41 yrs here? I can see David Stern now doing his best Kevin Costner if they build it we will come. IMO the only hope for future Sonic Basketball in Seattle is with the team we have. However wanting to settle for an expansion team does not mean you have no integrity. I don’t want one but have no wish to deprive you of it. Perhaps just a diffrent outlook your fcous seems to be on the ending. But IMO If we do not win the fight there will be nothing to settle or negotiate.