Free Agent Frenzy
Posted on Tuesday, July 1st, 2008 at 6:27 am by Brian Robinson
Well Baron Davis sure turned the world upside down with his decision to opt out.
Suddenly the GS Point Guard may bolt for LA, which will result in the Clippers letting Corey Maggette sign elswhere, and potentially landing Gilbert Arenas back in Goldens State. If that happens the Warriors will officially become my second favorite team again. Then what the hell happens in Washington? Crazy stuff….
It is really funny how events can change the fate of a franchise. 3 years ago Baron Davis was available for expiring contracts and nothing else but his back was so bad and his contract so large that nobody pursued him. In all likelyhood the Sonics could have gotten him in trade for a package of Jerome James, Danny Fortson, and Luke Ridnour. Now, looking at that deal you can say that he was healthy for all 3 years and his contract officially never became an issue. Just imagine for a second what a different position this franchise would be in if we had had Davis added to a core of Ray and Rashard three years ago. It would be a completely different world.
If the Warriors sign Gilbert does that mean that they let Pietrus walk? What about Biedrens and Ellis? Does Washington suddenly need a PG like Earl or Luke? Life gets interesting.
Talk about free agency here.
July 1st, 2008 at 8:07 am
Not sure how “cheap” he would really be, but I’d be interested in seeing the Sonics throw some coin at Nenad Krstic to start at Center. I know he is coming off knee surgery from last year. He might be a cheaper option than going after Biedrins.
Pietrus would be a nice veteran role guy off of the bench.
This team NEEDS another offensive weapon. Problem is, what player is going to want to come here for only $7.5MM that could be an impact offensive threat? I just don’t see one. Not with the trial and potential move hanging over the franchises’ head.
July 1st, 2008 at 8:10 am
There’s no way we get anything in Free agency, you have to trade for something with what we have. So it wont be a lot, but would be the right direction for next year
July 1st, 2008 at 8:23 am
I’m warriors season ticket holder (but a huge Sonics fan) and I can assure you there is no way in hell Gilbert is coming back to GS way. All he wanted to do was stay the last time he was here, but the owner refused to shake his hand on a Joe Smith like deal that would have the warriors sign him to a mega contract if he signed with them for a mid-level exemption. Cohan refused to shake on it and Gilbert immediately bolted. I doubt he’d want to work for Cohan again. As for the warriors, they’ll be fine. Biedrins and Ellis are restricted FAs. And there are only 3 teams that can sign Davis (LAC, 76ers, Memphis) and at the most Davis can only get about 12 million dollars. Baron has also said he’d like to be back with GS all along, he just wants more years.
July 1st, 2008 at 8:28 am
the Washington Post is already reporting that Golden State has offered Gilbert the max…
July 1st, 2008 at 8:31 am
A major reason for Baron leaving the Warriors was they didn’t utilize the $10mil trade exception. They could have had Kurt Thomas and Phoenix’s two #1 draft picks. That tells me they won’t spend the money to get a championship. No high-priced free agents will be going to the Bay area unless it is the only team with salary cap space.
July 1st, 2008 at 9:02 am
Wizards resigned Antawn Jamison for $50mil. Antawn is pressing his friend Gilbert to sign.
“Warriors quickly burned the phones and offered former Warrior Gilbert Arenas a maximum-level contract, one that would pay him more than $100 million over five years. My source told me that Gilbert received a flurry of phone calls from the Warriors in the first 30 minutes of free agency.”
That blows my contention that the Warriors are too cheap to go after Gilbert. My guess is he stays in DC.
July 1st, 2008 at 9:10 am
“Does it have the right to try and work with the tenant to get the tenant to stay longer? Of course it does,” Keller said. “But if the tenant doesn’t want to because it believes … the arena is inadequate both existing and renovated, it has no right to force its tenant to sell or engage in any course of conduct that is designed to try and accomplish that end.
“And when you do that you go over the line from a proper purpose to an improper purpose. And when you join hands and actively become complicit with others to engage in acts to effectuate that improper end you go from what is just a lawful exercise of a legal right and cross over into the world of unclean hands and improper behavior.”
I didn’t want to bring up the case and make us all crazy thinking about the judgement to come, but I found this quote in the PU this morning from Brad Keller to Judge Pechman.
I think Keller is getting his own timelines mixed up here. The city has talked about enforcing the lease for months. It wasn’t until PBC announced they intended to break the lease that a lawsuit was filed by the city to enforce it. So, how does Keller’s response to the Judge have ANY merit here?! The “unclean hands” claim is a baseless argument from the perspective of timelines!!
I hope the Judge sees through this cloak of lies…..
July 1st, 2008 at 9:12 am
Remember, we’re building for the future, so I’m not sure there are many free agents who we would want to come in and help us now.
And not many free agents who would want to come into a rebuilding situation.
July 1st, 2008 at 9:22 am
Blood Diamond, once again our local media displays its brilliance. Why not write an article about closing arguments, oh, I don’t know…the day after they occurred? That entire article is old news.
July 1st, 2008 at 9:25 am
The Sonics will be built thru the draft for the forseeable future. Not only will we not acquire any free agents they will not trade for any veterans other than expiring contracts. A good veteran player with let’s say two years left on his deal would bolt from the Sonics as soon as he can. This is the mess that has been created by the OKC ownership group.
July 1st, 2008 at 9:26 am
“Remember, we’re building for the future”
Let’s hope we have a future…In a day we’ll know
July 1st, 2008 at 9:26 am
that would be a great team but, where’s the D?
July 1st, 2008 at 9:31 am
Man, court reporter travis pittman, is trying to boil it down to the lease contract, and Hugh Millen wants to keep on talking about the theater/unclean hands/poison well etc.
July 1st, 2008 at 9:36 am
Could you see Randolph Morris or Kwame Brown in a ATL Hawks uniform?
Both are expected to get a good look from the ATL Hawks’ new brass this summer.
SOOOO glad Sund has moved on……..
July 1st, 2008 at 9:57 am
Free agent moves/trades, etc are all contigent on the city case, the Schultz case and if Clay keeps this team or not. If city wins the case but Clay knows he is just going to ride out the 2 years..does anyone really think they will try to sign any good veteran players or go after good trades. It will be all about collecting assetts for the future and saving money.
If he thinks he will lose this current team, I see him being so vindictive to try to destroy it for as long as he can just to screw us. I dont see how we can win either way.. I guess the team staying even though we will suck for awhile is the best case scenario
July 1st, 2008 at 9:57 am
“…the Sonics could have gotten him [Barron Davis] in trade for a package of Jerome James, Danny Fortson, and Luke Ridnour. …Just imagine for a second what a different position this franchise would be in if we had had Davis added to a core of Ray and Rashard three years ago.”
Without JJ and D-Fort, this team is NOTHING! (and our record proves it) That’s nearly 600 pounds of basketball IQ, for what? A perennial All-Star? Meh.
July 1st, 2008 at 9:59 am
“The Sonics will be built thru the draft for the forseeable future. Not only will we not acquire any free agents they will not trade for any veterans other than expiring contracts. A good veteran player with let’s say two years left on his deal would bolt from the Sonics as soon as he can. This is the mess that has been created by the OKC ownership group.”
Patches Pal, if this is true why did they take six picks and convert that into one maybe two players. They sold one pick and the packaged up two for one of the players that might be on the roster. I think the plan might be to build from the draft it just seems that they don’t know how to draft. We don’t draft good players. How many decent players in the last ten years drafted by the Sonics are even in the league. Five, six maybe. That includes three that are on our current team. I don’t count Sene, Watson, Swift as decent players. Because they are not.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:02 am
I’m a Warriors fan as well and I know that Baron really doesn’t want to go anywhere else as mcwalter44 has said. If he does go elsewhere, I would be shocked. Also, Gilbert Arenas shouldn’t be headed back to the Bay any time soon. That relationship went sour long ago. Man, watching GS in the playoffs last year made me wish I could feel the same about the supes. My fingers are crossed.
By the way, Brian, thanks for all you and the rest of the SC crew do here. Your time and effort just kicks ass. What we’ve been able to accomplish as a community here is just awesome!
July 1st, 2008 at 10:03 am
It’s unfair to lump the two regimes together like that. Presti now has two drafts under his belt and cannot be burdened with the mistakes of the previous Sonics GM’s before him.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:08 am
it at least seems as he tried to trade up, but wasn’t possible. Not a bad draft I think, I really expect a lot of defense coming from these rookies
July 1st, 2008 at 10:11 am
“It’s unfair to lump the two regimes together like that. Presti now has two drafts under his belt and cannot be burdened with the mistakes of the previous Sonics GM’s before him.”
Yah I agree but does it seem that we have a fascination with foreign players that are very close to being just about ready to join the CBA. Come on last week was a complete bust. We have been rebuilding for what ten years. Gary Payton becomes Ray Allen becomes Green. Ok that was a decent move. KD was a lock. What else do we have in the last two drafts. Oh, we have a guy from the Congo that is going to work it out in Spain. RIGHT. Brilliant. Not Fair. This guy from San Antinio is unfair. He is a 31 year old wanabe. How many picks do we have including our own next year. Maybe we can look at the Freshman this up coming season and hope that we find another KD. UNFAIR. Please.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:13 am
Yesterday there was some discussion of Pietris maybe being a good fit for the Sonics as a back-up at the #2  - an upgrade over wilkins?
I believe he is an unrestricted Free A. - I have not paid much attention to him & don’t really have a feel or opinion on him as a player.
anyone this if we could get him for a reasonable rate - would he be a guy worth investing ina nd bringing into the 8-9 player rotation around KD for the next several years?
July 1st, 2008 at 10:16 am
If there was a way to trade away wilkins, then maybe it would be a great idea to bring pietrus
July 1st, 2008 at 10:24 am
That’s the one thing about the last 10 years with this franchise. There are so many “what if” scenarios. I just hope that if/when the team stays some of the scenarios will actually come to life.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:26 am
We don’t draft good players. How many decent players in the last ten years drafted by the Sonics are even in the league.
“Interesting” comment considering the current management has only been in place/charge for one, now two drafts counting this most recent one. What does the last 8 drafts prior to these two have to do with this management/GM and its abilities????
July 1st, 2008 at 10:29 am
Come on last week was a complete bust.
Watch out! The Sky is Falling! Run, everyone run, back to the chicken coupe.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:31 am
OH man dont’ even bring up the B-Diddy high profile robbery trade… I was so p!ssed that day.
When the trade rumors swirled around B-Diddy, I was hoping the Supes will pick him up.
ANd then the news broke… Dale Davis + Speedy Claxton + cash for Baron Davis????
THAT remains one of the most lopsided trades in recent NBA history until Pau Gasol to the Lakers.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:32 am
hey guys,
I was wondering if you had any recent news concerning Mickael Gelabale, regarding his health and/or his contract. Does he have a future with the Sonics?
Thanks.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:33 am
Two guys that I’m interested in are Pietrus and Tony Allen. They’re both good defenders and excellent athletes and Pietrus is even a decent 3 point shooter.
Signing a short term deal with a team like Seattle may be appealing to this type of player because they would get quality playing time — which would help them get their next big contract.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:34 am
Quick Questions,
Is it common for a judge to post her ruling online? Is she also going to give her ruling in the courtroom?
My only fear is that she would be giving her ruling online, not in person because she fears there might be another rally and she doesn’t want to cause chaos with the Sonic fan base when she rejects the citys request.
Judgment day is tomorrow. If we lose, man it was special to a part of this group. Everyone has been wearing the hearts on their sleaves and everyone should be proud of what we have accomplished. Save our Sonics.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:40 am
What else do we have in the last two drafts.
As you’ve already mentioned we have what most project to be the teams “Superstar” in Kevin Durant. Along with him they drafted what appears to be a solid, high BBall IQ, starter in Jeff Green.
Now they’ve drafted who they project to be the starting PG. So essentially in the past two drafts, the team has drafted the core SuperStar it is building around and at minimum, two core starters. In addition, this season they’ve added some experienced college level post players in White and Hardin that help fill depth in the post.
Even though it is WAY premature to evaluate this current draft, it looks like the team has done a very solid job of drafting for core talent, over the past two drafts. Whether or not that translates to future success is yet to be determined. In addition, based on where the team should finish up this next season, they should be able to add another top core player and could essentially end up with 4 of their five starters having come out of three concurrent drafts. That could be considered pretty good drafting, however it is still way premature considering how early in this GM’s tenor we are talking about here.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:40 am
The point is not That the Sky is Falling. We have a team that is being built around one player. We lost 62 games last year. This is impressive only that is very hard to do in the NBA. We added one Defensive Athletic Guard from UCLA. AND? We had six picks. We are stockpiling picks. What are we going to do with them lose 55 games next year and convert that into two more players and convert that into a 15 game turnaround. That would put us at 40 wins in two years. There is not going to be anything done in free agency. So why stockpile picks if you can’t draft. Thats the point. Look long and hard at this years freshman college class for your 2010 Sonics.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:46 am
The point is not That the Sky is Falling. We have a team that is being built around one player. We lost 62 games last year. This is impressive only that is very hard to do in the NBA.
Welcome to the world of a rebuilding franchise. It doesn’t happen over night and complaining about a 62 loss season in year one of the rebuild seems a bit shortsited to me, but maybe that’s just me.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:48 am
We are stockpiling picks. What are we going to do with them lose 55 games next year and convert that into two more players and convert that into a 15 game turnaround.
Yes, that sounds about right. That’s what “rebuilding” teams do. If we add two more core players next season (I’d actually be happy with adding one more core player and then start filling in th gaps with some veteran’s on shorter term deals.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:49 am
“That could be considered pretty good drafting, however it is still way premature considering how early in this GM’s tenor we are talking about here.”
You are kidding aren’t you. We are a farm team for the Spurs, the Celtics, I don’t know who else. at this pace we will win what 70 games in three years. Its ridiculous. Why would we draft another big man from the Congo. We have to wait for what two years. If we don’t make the playoffs in the next three years that would be three playoff teams in fifteen. Our GS friend should feel right at home because thats what we are the Warriors in green and gold. Based on your analysis in about three years if all goes well we would have the makings of a pretty good team. A lot happens in three years. And resigning your team to 50 loss years is stupid. How about a free agent?
July 1st, 2008 at 10:51 am
So why stockpile picks if you can’t draft. Thats the point.
You don’t add six draftees to your roster in one season. Anyone thinking the Sonics were going to use all 6 picks this season to add six new players to the 2008/2009 roster just didn’t have a clue what was going on.
The Sonics added two (Westbrook & White) and possibly three (Hardin) players to the 2008/2009 roster and possibly an impact player (Ibaka) to the 2010/2011 roster. That is an excellent job of utilizing six picks, IMO.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:59 am
Based on your analysis in about three years if all goes well we would have the makings of a pretty good team.
That sounds about right. Like I said above, Welcome to the world of a rebuilding franchise. You either don’t appear to understand what a complete tear down and rebuild entails or you just don’t like going through one. If its the latter, then I just don’t think anything anyone is going to tell you is going to help.
A lot happens in three years. And resigning your team to 50 loss years is stupid. How about a free agent?
You sure you aren’t living under a rock somewhere? With the ownership issues going on right now, there is two chances of the Sonics signing an impact free agent, slim and none. A role player like Pietrus is about as good as we can hope for at this point, until the ownership issues get settled.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:02 am
“The Sonics added two (Westbrook & White) and possibly three (Hardin) players to the 2008/2009 roster and possibly an impact player (Ibaka) to the 2010/2011 roster. That is an excellent job of utilizing six picks, IMO.”
Hey look Frozenropers neither one of us is going to solve a thing here my frustration is why stokpile picks and draft a guy that is three years away from the playing in the league. Mr. Presti appears to be handcuffed by the ownership. I just don’t agree with the draft. None of those guys are locks or even guarenteed. I don’t think that rebuilding is the issue. The Sonics are five years of losing in order to be even competative. I will predict that Westbrooke will be the only player above in the league in 2010/2011. This guy Ibaka will never play for the Sonics.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:03 am
Why would Gilbert leave washington? He said he would stay if they signed jamison…..also I don’t pechmans online ruling has anything to do with her being concerned about a rally
July 1st, 2008 at 11:04 am
“A lot happens in three years. And resigning your team to 50 loss years is stupid. How about a free agent? ”
What free agent is coming to this team? Right now nobody knows where they’ll be in two years and the ownership sure as hell isn’t going to be shelling out any money for a good team …
” resigning your team to 50 loss years is stupid”
Unfortunately it’s also the only way to amass enough talent to win. If you want to see what happens when you try to build through free agency see Nuggets, Denver …
July 1st, 2008 at 11:04 am
Re: Ibaka.
Are not the first round selections guaranteed money?
Do we have to pay Ibaka even if he plays abroad?
July 1st, 2008 at 11:07 am
Are not the first round selections guaranteed money?
Yes
Do we have to pay Ibaka even if he plays abroad?
no
July 1st, 2008 at 11:12 am
The Sonics draftes Ibaka.
What if Ibaka demands to come and play here next year?
Why do the Sonics have the right to draft him and then make him stay away?
July 1st, 2008 at 11:13 am
Unfortunately it’s also the only way to amass enough talent to win. If you want to see what happens when you try to build through free agency see Nuggets, Denver …
Ok, give me the example of a “complete tear” down and rebuild from the draft only that worked. Assuming we can draft. We have these foreign guys who seem to really be paying big dividends. Lets take another flyer on one. OK last weeks draft was year two. Ok now we have three players who appear to be keepers. Obviously no free agents and 50 plus losses are needed to rebuild so year three we add another lets say number three draft choice. How close are we. Oh, thats right there is no timetable to rebuild from the draft only because nobody ever does it.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:19 am
Stern hires some guy w/ no officiating background whatsoever to oversee refs;
http://tinyurl.com/6orhrt
July 1st, 2008 at 11:21 am
I just don’t agree with the draft. None of those guys are locks or even guarenteed.
Are any draft picks “guaranteed” to succeed? I don’t think they are if you go back and look at the history of the draft. Nobody is “guaranteed” to live up to draft hype expectations. I think history proves that out pretty much.
and draft a guy that is three years away from the playing in the league.
Ummmmm, I don’t know about everyone else, but I think that is exactly why you stockpile draft picks. So you can take a flyer on a later pick here or there and “shoot for the moon”, which is exactly what Ibaka is. The problem with the past regime was that they “shot for the moon” with lottery picks, which is a recipe for disaster.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:23 am
“None of those guys are locks or even guarenteed.”
Uh that’s the NBA Draft for you. You can say that about every team’s draft.
By the way, I don’t know how to italicize…
I think Ibaka was a smart pick — you shoot for the moon and more importantly, don’t have to pay him to develop.
Vinny, the Sonics have to pay him guaranteed 1st round money when he comes to play for them. That’s the big question about Ibaka though — people think he will develop into a very good player and that a European team will offer him enough to not make it worth his while to come over to the rookie scale.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:26 am
What if Ibaka demands to come and play here next year?
They sign him, he plays, he pays off his euro contract, sonics can help some but it is up to the player to choose to come here, or not.
Why do the Sonics have the right to draft him and then make him stay away?
They can not make him stay away. They selected a guy that they knew had an existing contract in Europe, and he is more likely to get more playing time over there.
If he came here he might have to pay off his old euro contract (costing him some money) and end up at the end of the bench or in Tulsa playing for the NBDL team there.
It would cost him money and he could end up in Tulsa.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:27 am
“Stern hires some guy w/ no officiating background whatsoever to oversee refs;”
Maybe he gives good email.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:28 am
Ok, give me the example of a “complete tear” down and rebuild from the draft only that worked.
Portland
July 1st, 2008 at 11:28 am
Ok, give me the example of a “complete tear” down and rebuild from the draft only that worked.
You are making the false assumption that the future plan of this team involves only draft picks. One the ownership issue is resolved and where the team will be playing for the forseeable future (beyond 2 years), then the team will more than likely start looking to add the Free Agents around its core players that they’ve drafted in order to fill out the team.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:29 am
So cannot Ibaka demand that the Sonics accept him, and pay him this coming year? If I was Ibaka, and I was making very little money, then I would demand to come and play for the rookie scale THIS year. If the Sonics make him stay away, then the Sonics are limiting his earning potential. Can’t he sue them for that?
July 1st, 2008 at 11:30 am
Sorry already posted these questions but does anyone know,
Is it common for a judge to post her ruling online? Is she also going to give her ruling in the courtroom also?
July 1st, 2008 at 11:30 am
Obviously no free agents and 50 plus losses are needed to rebuild so year three we add another lets say number three draft choice. How close are we. Oh, thats right there is no timetable to rebuild from the draft only because nobody ever does it.
You sure the Sky isn’t Falling?
July 1st, 2008 at 11:31 am
Ibaka could come over this year if he wanted, however, he doesn’t want to. He was even being asked to not be drafted until the second round so he wouldn’t have to come over this year.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:32 am
Ok, give me the example of a “complete tear” down and rebuild from the draft only that worked.
Portland
I’d also add Chicago to that group, however they made a mistake when chosing which veteran Free Agent to sign and add as the supposed final piece when they picked Ben Wallace. It set them back a few years.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:35 am
Tim Duncan
Manu
Tony P
all drafted by the same team, all their core guys.
Kobe was drafted, Shaq was traded to LA, the rest were some other team’s lottery picks. Look closely at the roster of the Lakers first two rings. There are mostly some other team’s first round or lottery picks they traded for or signed. Not a bunch of second rounders swirling around a couple stars. Rick Fox was some other teams thought at draft time of being a second option, he was a very good third or fourth.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:35 am
They selected a guy that they knew had an existing contract in Europe,
Actually, I was under the impression that Ibaka hadn’t actually signed his Euro contract yet, but had two offers in hand. One from his former Spanish team and one from one other team. His agent was trying to pursuade teams from drafting him in the first round because he was “going” to sign one of the offers, but hadn’t officially done it yet and being stuck in the first round rookie scale would make it tough to buy him out of his Euro deal two years into it.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:39 am
Ibaka asked to not be drafted in the 1st round because he doesn’t want to be tied to the rookie salary scale. Which speaks to what kind of a prospect he is — enough of a player that he’ll probably get offered more by European clubs then the NBA rookie salary — like Tiago Splitter from last year.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:42 am
The Sonics added two (Westbrook & White) and possibly three (Hardin) players to the 2008/2009 roster and possibly an impact player (Ibaka) to the 2010/2011 roster. That is an excellent job of utilizing six picks, IMO
- As was said the day of the draft…Presti seems to know what he is doing from a technical stand point…however, his player evaluation skills are going to be what makes or breaks him. He did a good job of getting the guys he wanted. Now he just has to hope that they are the right guys.
Ok, give me the example of a “complete tear” down and rebuild from the draft only that worked.
Interesting challege:
- Cleveland (what did any of their FA signings do to help them win?)
- New Oreleans (look at the their trade of Baron Davis…)
- Chicago (until last year they were a rising team)
- Boston (they completely tore the team down)
- Portland (sure seems to be the odds on favorite to be the team of the future)
Teams do not tear down in one year and then go out and sign a big FA. I would expect them to sign their FA next year. Besides…what was the point of trading Ray for cap space and then going and wasting it on a MLE guy?? Makes no sense at all.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:43 am
Frozenropers, I can give you an example of a team that works just from the draft, and it is very successful. It’s the Clippers. That is the model that OKC will have to follow. The economics of drafting players that are stuck on the team (if management desires) for 4+ years at rookie scales, then trading most of those players for more picks so the rotation can continue, is a great way to keep the salaries down and the team making money. Unfortunately, it also means the Sonics would be a farm club for the free-spending owners, just like the perpetually mediocre Clips.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:43 am
If there was a way to trade away wilkins, then maybe it would be a great idea to bring pietrus
People are underestimating Pietrus. The only reason he didn’t get much playing time in Golden State was because Golden State puts a high priority on wing players that produce offense. When somebody signs him, nobody will expect him to make an impact. But I see his situation the same as when Bruce Bowen and Raja Bell were signed, which were unheralded players making an impact defensively. Hopefully that team signing him is us.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:44 am
So cannot Ibaka demand that the Sonics accept him, and pay him this coming year? If I was Ibaka, and I was making very little money, then I would demand to come and play for the rookie scale THIS year. If the Sonics make him stay away, then the Sonics are limiting his earning potential. Can’t he sue them for that?
- I still don’t agree with going for Ibaka over Arthur…but again Presti is going to live and die by his player evaluation skills. Lets hope he is right.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:46 am
How many players drafted from pick 46 to pick 60 actually make NBA teams right away? Not many. So, we actually had 3 quality picks and picked up 2 players with one for the future. You can’t trade crap for gold. Picks 46, 50 and 56 are pretty useless as far as changing the team for the next season.
Yep, “the plan” would include at least one year of 50 losses. I think the approach is correct. Whether or not they make the right choices to make the plan work is another thing all together.
I said this earlier but I am sure that Presti has been given a 5 year window to put toghether a winning team. I think PJ was given a 3 year deal. So, if they are not happy with how he is developing the pieces, they can get a new coach when the job looks better. We are just freaking out because we are worried about the team leaving or whether or not will ever get to see success in Seattle. Our worries have little to do with actual basketball decisions. All the work to try to get into the playoffs by Sund got us to 32 and 35 win seasons. Give this plan a chance.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:47 am
Frozenropers, I can give you an example of a team that works just from the draft, and it is very successful. It’s the Clippers. That is the model that OKC will have to follow. The economics of drafting players that are stuck on the team (if management desires) for 4+ years at rookie scales, then trading most of those players for more picks so the rotation can continue, is a great way to keep the salaries down and the team making money. Unfortunately, it also means the Sonics would be a farm club for the free-spending owners, just like the perpetually mediocre Clips.
- Yes…as much as we hate Bennett…there is no evidence to support that he is going to be as cheap as Donald Sterling…besdies can’t you just do the reverse and show how great all those FA signings by Billy King in Philadelphia worked out.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:48 am
Frozenropers, I can give you an example of a team that works just from the draft, and it is very successful. It’s the Clippers. That is the model that OKC will have to follow. The economics of drafting players that are stuck on the team (if management desires) for 4+ years at rookie scales, then trading most of those players for more picks so the rotation can continue, is a great way to keep the salaries down and the team making money. Unfortunately, it also means the Sonics would be a farm club for the free-spending owners, just like the perpetually mediocre Clips.
I would argue that 3 of their current/former impact players when they experienced their most success came via FA or trade. Elton Brand, Sam Cassell and Corey Maggette were all not drafted originally by the Clippers.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:49 am
Vinny, Ibaka could present himself ready to play here free from other contracts and then Sonics would have to tender him an offer for next season or possibly lose his rights eventually, theoretically. But in the end to get free the follow-up requirement is that he would have to not play professional basketball for the next year. The NBA makes it very unlikely that draft rights lapse. It could be done but I am not aware of any cases.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:50 am
Frozenropers, I can give you an example of a team that works just from the draft, and it is very successful. It’s the Clippers.
I don’t think I’d call the Clips, “Successful”.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:52 am
I believe Presti got a 3 year contract with a team option for a 4th. Whether his plan is on right track may or may not be clear by then.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:53 am
FrozenRopers, FYI - when you are trying to convince someone to do something, you are attempting to “persuade” them, but when you are trying to convince someone to NOT do something, then you are attempting to “dissuade” them, especially since you used “from” after “persuade”, because you persuade “to” and dissuade “from”.
Today’s grammar lesson for what it’s worth.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:54 am
It should be clear to us fans in Seattle that Bennett & Presti’s plan is to deliver the most mediocre team it can reasonably muster for a few years. Why else would PJ be coach? Why else would 31 year old Presti be GM? Why else trade your two all-stars? Why draft Ibaka? Why sell current draft picks while stockpiling future draft picks? Why are Watson, Wilkins, Sene & Petro still here?
Are they really rebuilding or are the PBC Sonics just trying to destroy any impetus in the Seattle market that might induce fans to demand a stadium solution? Did the PBC fail to publicize the Sonics in a meaningful way last season for the same reason? Is that why we don’t hear player interviews on KJR or see billboards with Durant’s mug?
July 1st, 2008 at 11:58 am
People are underestimating Pietrus. The only reason he didn’t get much playing time in Golden State was because Golden State puts a high priority on wing players that produce offense. When somebody signs him, nobody will expect him to make an impact. But I see his situation the same as when Bruce Bowen and Raja Bell were signed, which were unheralded players making an impact defensively. Hopefully that team signing him is us.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:59 am
Mantra, Clip’s owner Donald Sterling was acting out of character when he spent a little money after years of being a cheapskate. I expect Presti/Bennett to continue to wheel & deal. They are businessmen, who will make the most with the least.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Myk and Frozenropers have it right. We are in “asset accumulation” mode. Garner draft picks, hopefully use them wisely, and be patient. Then in 1 or 2 years you make “the move.” Turn those assets into a championship caliber team. Tweak as necessary. Every successful team gets built this way. The specifics change (how many were players you drafted, or how many you traded for using the players you drafted), but that’s how it’s done. The key is drafting well. Previously, we haven’t drafted well, and the FA’s we did sign turned out poorly. So far Presti has done markedly better (the Kurt Thomas manipulation was brilliant). But Myk is dead on…we need the draft picks to pan out. I like Westbrook and White. Their tough, competitive and hard workers. That’s what we need. Luke, Damien, Wilcox….not so much. That’s what Presti is talking about with culture change. But it takes time people.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Why else would PJ be coach? — He’s cheap and has experience
Why else would 31 year old Presti be GM? — Cheap and is an up and comer.
Why else trade your two all-stars? — The team sucked with them. Allen is aging and Lewis is waaaaaay overpriced.
Why draft Ibaka? — Ridiculous upside and we don’t have to pay him to develop.
Why sell current draft picks while stockpiling future draft picks? — You don’t want what is available at #56, it’s not like they sold a 1st rounder.
Why are Watson, Wilkins, Sene & Petro still here? — Still evaluating Sene & Petro and Watson/Wilkins have no value to the rest of the league.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:05 pm
I have been talking like a conspiracy theorist about Bennett’s bad intentions for over a year. Anyone who paid attention to the trial should realize that I am at least half right in my contentions that the current ownership is not operating in the best interest of the team or its fans for 41 years.
Rather they are acting maliciously and evilly to suck the basketball life out of Seattle for their own personal amusement. It’s the privilege of being billionaire republican oil barons.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:09 pm
“That’s what Presti is talking about with culture change.” Excuse me, but it’s not about culture change. It’s about address change.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Why else trade your two all-stars?
Because it didn’t appear to be working with them as the teams core.
Why draft Ibaka?
Because he’s a potential lottery talent one to two year’s down the road and the Sonics were able to secure the rights to sign him for a late first round pick.
Why sell current draft picks while stockpiling future draft picks?
Because you can only add so many rookie draft picks to your roster in any one year without it getting totally ridiculous or without buying guys out of their current contracts. The Sonics already have 11 guys under contract for next season and the QO out to Swift. They are adding three from this draft already in Westbrook, White and Hardin. That essentially gets you to 15 already if you don’t make any other moves.
So, when you have extra picks left over, you either trade them for future picks or sell them if you can’t trade them.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Yes, the team is rebuilding and it is the right thing to do. BUT, you would be foolish not to see how the PBC is using the rebuilding as a disguise to destroy this franchise in Seattle.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Not sure how big Ibaka’s pending Spanish deal is or the size of the buyout. Unless and until all the detail is spelled out it is hard to say whether signing him was a good risk. If he has a fairly big buyout in 2 years (wiping out most or all of his previous 2 years of earnings) then I think they might not see him til 2011. Or never if he can make a lot more over there instead of coming to take rookie scale for 4 more years. It depends on how good he gets. If he is still a modest talent in 2 or 4 years then yeah he probably comes over. If he explodes and can earn top european money then he is more likely not to come over these days than in the past.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Here is an analogy. Bush invaded Iraq, ostensibly, to save the world from an evil dictator with nuclear weapons. In reality, it’s all about the oil and strategic military bases.
Here, Bennett and Presti are “rebuilding” and “stockpiling picks” and “changing culture.” Those are just words stated for appearances sake. Their real goal is to ruin basketball in Seattle so they can steal the team.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:16 pm
I have been talking like a conspiracy theorist about Bennett’s bad intentions for over a year. Anyone who paid attention to the trial should realize that I am at least half right in my contentions that the current ownership is not operating in the best interest of the team or its fans for 41 years.
I think you are right about that last part, but that’s just about it. It was just convenient coincidence that getting rid of Allen and Lewis up front as part of the rebuilding effort also worked to alienate the existing fan base. When Bennett bought the Sonics he planned on having this team in Oklahoma City by now. Presti’s moves are toward building a solid young core than will be attractive to fans in Oklahoma City when the team gets there. If he is forced to stay here for the next two years as he should be, then some of the “other moves” may be delayed, but he’s not going to do something stupid that hurts the core talent that he is trying to put together for a successful team that he still thinks he’s going to be able to steal off to Oklahoma City.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:19 pm
Yes, the team is rebuilding and it is the right thing to do. BUT, you would be foolish not to see how the PBC is using the rebuilding as a disguise to destroy this franchise in Seattle.
… 2 birds with 1 stone.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:20 pm
“2 Birds with 1 stone.”
Exactly!!
July 1st, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Here, Bennett and Presti are “rebuilding” and “stockpiling picks” and “changing culture.” Those are just words stated for appearances sake. Their real goal is to ruin basketball in Seattle so they can steal the team.
This team would be going through a “rebuild” if it were still stuck here in Seattle or already on its way to Oklahoma City. IMO, strategy in the Draft has not been impacted by the ownership and arena issue. What has been and will continue to be impacted by the ownership issue is signing free agents.
The Sonics have probably drafted more players than any other team outside of Portland over the past two drafts. We’ll probably have five picks from the last two drafts on our roster this next season.
You may have a case if the Sonics were taking all their picks and trading them for future picks and not selecting and retaining anyone, but since they aren’t, I think this part of your “conspiracy theory” doesn’t hold any water.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Thanks Frozenropers, for the voice of reason…
July 1st, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Frozen said, “It was just convenient coincidence that getting rid of Allen and Lewis up front as part of the rebuilding effort also worked to alienate the existing fan base.”
Could the reverse be true? Was the true goal to alienate the existing fan base? Was it mere convenient coincidence that they could label it as rebuilding?
July 1st, 2008 at 12:29 pm
My position might be a bit too strong. Eric E and Dick Tate got it right when they said:
“Yes, the team is rebuilding and it is the right thing to do. BUT, you would be foolish not to see how the PBC is using the rebuilding as a disguise to destroy this franchise in Seattle.
… 2 birds with 1 stone.”
July 1st, 2008 at 12:31 pm
My early impression is that next summer’s draft class is weak, weaker than this one.
May not be a great time to be building thru the draft.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Could the reverse be true? Was the true goal to alienate the existing fan base? Was it mere convenient coincidence that they could label it as rebuilding?
Only if you think a roster built around Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis on near max and max level contracts is/was a successful strategy for building a Championship team.
In the end, you have to build a contending team to be successful whether they are here or in Oklahoma City. So as a semi-intelligent individual do you look at the teams recent history with Ray and Rashard as the core and say, I can make them a contender and spend another 2-3 years failing, or do you blow it up to begin with and build a team based on what you think is the “right formula”.
Lets just for one second take the whole, which City should this team be playing in, out of the mix and ask yourself. If you were a new owner of the Sonics and planned on staying in Seattle and had just bought the team when Bennett did, which strategy do you think is the right one, if you want to build a Championship team? Do you keep on struggling under the previous regime’s formula and try and patch in pieces that you think might work given your salary inflexiblity or do you go the route the current team has gone and blow it up?
July 1st, 2008 at 12:38 pm
“Yes, the team is rebuilding and it is the right thing to do. BUT, you would be foolish not to see how the PBC is using the rebuilding as a disguise to destroy this franchise in Seattle.
Yes, but we were specifically talking in regards to the team’s draft strategy.
I think you are absolutely correct in applying your “conspiracy theory” to the teams timing of when they will sign free agents or add other key parts to the equation, however I think they are executing their draft strategy in order to build core talent the best way they know how.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:43 pm
“So cannot Ibaka demand that the Sonics accept him, and pay him this coming year? If I was Ibaka, and I was making very little money, then I would demand to come and play for the rookie scale THIS year. If the Sonics make him stay away, then the Sonics are limiting his earning potential. Can’t he sue them for that?”
Ibaka is believed to have quite some offers from european teams and the biggest hurdle the Sonics are facing now is trying to convince him and his agent to sign a contract with a small opt out clause so he’ll be able to come over in a couple of years.
BTW: He was picked #24 and therefore would make about $1 mil during his first year in the league. That’s currently about €634.000 Euros and he’ll easily be able to earn about as much in Europe as well.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:46 pm
ah. I see. Well, I still think they would have drafted Yi if they weren’t trying to destroy the fanbase and move.
I also think they drafted Westbrook knowing that it wouldn’t create a lot of buzz. They saw what the Durant pick did to their efforts to leave and wanted to pick someone that Seattle wouldn’t get excited about. With that said I don’t think they are making terrible choices or anything like that. I just think the PBC wanting to move to OKC is influencing their decisions.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:48 pm
Maybe third times the charm,
Is it common for a judge to post her ruling online? Is she also going to give her ruling in the courtroom also?
July 1st, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Only if you think a roster built around Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis on near max and max level contracts is/was a successful strategy for building a Championship team.
In the end, you have to build a contending team to be successful whether they are here or in Oklahoma City. So as a semi-intelligent individual do you look at the teams recent history with Ray and Rashard as the core and say, I can make them a contender and spend another 2-3 years failing, or do you blow it up to begin with and build a team based on what you think is the “right formula”.
Lets just for one second take the whole, which City should this team be playing in, out of the mix and ask yourself. If you were a new owner of the Sonics and planned on staying in Seattle and had just bought the team when Bennett did, which strategy do you think is the right one, if you want to build a Championship team? Do you keep on struggling under the previous regime’s formula and try and patch in pieces that you think might work given your salary inflexiblity or do you go the route the current team has gone and blow it up?
Good points frozen. The people that are criticizing Presti for letting Rashard sign with Orlando for that ludicrous contract are out of their minds. Letting Ray Allen go to Boston was not that bad a move either. I couldn’t see him carrying this team on his back to a championship anytime soon unless Presti was able to aquire a dominant defensive big man. As much as I love Ray, he was barely able to string together any decent playoff games up until the finals this past season. If we kept him, he would be asked to carry the load with only a decent 2nd option (at best) let alone trying to score with the guys he played with in Boston. Cmon guys, let’s be realistic.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:54 pm
is the ruling supposed to come BY 4pm or AT 4pm?
July 1st, 2008 at 12:56 pm
I just think the PBC wanting to move to OKC is influencing their decisions.
I think it is heavily influencing their marketing strategy and plan in the Seattle region. I think it is heavily influencing how they expose their players to the public. I think it heavily influenced their efforts to get or more accurately NOT GET an arena solution done in the Seattle market. I think it will continue to heavily influence the team’s moves in the free agent market.
However the one aspect I don’t think it has or will continue to influence much is their draft strategy. As I believe Myk already noted, their success in that realm will be determined solely on their ability to evaluate and develop young talent.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:56 pm
27 hrs…
July 1st, 2008 at 12:58 pm
ah. I see. Well, I still think they would have drafted Yi if they weren’t trying to destroy the fanbase and move.
I also think they drafted Westbrook knowing that it wouldn’t create a lot of buzz. They saw what the Durant pick did to their efforts to leave and wanted to pick someone that Seattle wouldn’t get excited about. With that said I don’t think they are making terrible choices or anything like that. I just think the PBC wanting to move to OKC is influencing their decisions.
You can’t be serious. I thought it was clear from day one Presti had a vision in mind of how he wants his team to play, and that is both ends of the floor. Yi is not a good defender, and probably won’t be a good one. There’s a reason Milwaukee did not mind giving up Yi for an oft-injured Richard Jefferson, while Presti wouldn’t even give up Green and the #4 for Beasley. See the difference there?
As far as your concerns with how our draft went, would you have been jumping in the air in excitement if we had picked Kevin Love or Brook Lopez at 4??? I’m pretty sure the majority of Sonics fans would have the same reactions as they do now if they had picked one of those. CLEARLY Brook Lopez would’ve been picked too high as he dropped all the way to NJ at 10. Kevin Love isn’t worth a top 10 as he does not have much upside at all. Lets face it, after Rose, Beasley and Mayo, there is not much to be excited about after that.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:03 pm
“Ok, give me the example of a “complete tear” down and rebuild from the draft only that worked. ”
There’s literally dozens of examples. How about instead of putting the burden on everyone disagreeing with you showing a little prrof yourself. Portland, Utah, Chicago, Milwaukee … wow that was hard.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:10 pm
” But Myk is dead on…we need the draft picks to pan out.”
Agreed, that’s the kicker. Spending 2-3 seasons as a 20-win lotto team is brutal if the guys picked don’t pan out as superstars. It’s much easier to find the 3rd best, 4th best, 5th best guy role when you have #1 and #2 already in place. Not sure if this team has found its #2 yet.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:14 pm
TB~ I read the ruling is supposed to be submitted in writing by Judge Pechman at 4pm. My stomach is already flipping when I think about it. I’m not feeling any strong feeling either way but am praying for the city to prevail.
SAVE OUR SUPES!!!!
July 1st, 2008 at 1:18 pm
Anyone know if it’s possible for the judge to hand down sortof… compromise ruling? Like “The Sonics must stay in Seattle for half of the remaining lease.” or something of that nature?
July 1st, 2008 at 1:18 pm
There’s literally dozens of examples. How about instead of putting the burden on everyone disagreeing with you showing a little prrof yourself. Portland, Utah, Chicago, Milwaukee … wow that was hard.
I really don’t think Utah completely tore their team down. Right before they started their rebuilding process, John Stockton had retired, and Karl Malone was WAY past his prime so they let him sign with the Lakers.
Same goes for Chicago. Once MJ retired, it started a domino effect on the rest of the team. PJ decided to take a break, Pippen past his prime ended up going to Houston, and if I remember correctly Rodman went to the Lakers. The Bulls really had no choice but to start from scratch.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:21 pm
It should be clear to us fans in Seattle that Bennett & Presti’s plan is to deliver the most mediocre team it can reasonably muster for a few years. Why else would PJ be coach? Why else would 31 year old Presti be GM? Why else trade your two all-stars? Why draft Ibaka? Why sell current draft picks while stockpiling future draft picks? Why are Watson, Wilkins, Sene & Petro still here?
Are they really rebuilding or are the PBC Sonics just trying to destroy any impetus in the Seattle market that might induce fans to demand a stadium solution? Did the PBC fail to publicize the Sonics in a meaningful way last season for the same reason? Is that why we don’t hear player interviews on KJR or see billboards with Durant’s mug?
- Your first paragraph and your second paragraph are not as related as you think they are.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:23 pm
You can probably say the Atlanta Hawks completely tore it down once they traded away Steve Smith and got rid of Mutombo. With the exception of taking Marvin Williams over Chris Paul and Deron Williams, their drafting has been solid over the years with the likes of Josh Smith, Josh Childress and Al Horford. I could see this team making a run for the finals once they solidify their bench.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:25 pm
seej, I was wondering the same thing. She might make them sit down and re work the lease so the team remains here but the team also makes more money or something like that. Or maybe she will make the team stay for one more season and try to get an arena deal worked out.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:27 pm
I think it is heavily influencing their marketing strategy and plan in the Seattle region. I think it is heavily influencing how they expose their players to the public. I think it heavily influenced their efforts to get or more accurately NOT GET an arena solution done in the Seattle market. I think it will continue to heavily influence the team’s moves in the free agent market.
However the one aspect I don’t think it has or will continue to influence much is their draft strategy. As I believe Myk already noted, their success in that realm will be determined solely on their ability to evaluate and develop young talent.
- This is exactly true…what is funny is that if had signed Ray and Rashard and we sucked this year then we’d be complaining that they didn’t try and rebuild. Everyone who has followed the Sonics for the last few years have wondered why they kept trying to put a bandaid on a broke franchise. Finally, they step up and do what needs to be done and people still are not happy.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Portland, Utah, Chicago, Milwaukee … wow that was hard.
Ok define “worked”. I would guess it would mean in the finals at least.
Kobe was drafted by Phily.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Mantra, you are right about the marketing and arena efforts. You also might be right about the drafting. But the fact that Bennett was known to have influence over the draft is evidence enough for me that the drafting is at least a little influenced by trying to leave.
In the end we are both guessing though.
July 1st, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Kobe was drafted by Charlotte
July 1st, 2008 at 1:48 pm
It looks like only 7 rookie PGs in last 10 years scored 12+ pts / game in first season and only 5 more beat 9.5. Deron Williams was short of 11 pts / game. T Parker 9.2. Barbosa 7.9.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:00 pm
My two cents,
OK I know we are all speculating about what we should do assuming we win the case and get another two years. But shouldn’t we be trying to prove that we deserve the Sonics? After all if we just continue to build through the draft the next couple of years,and we continue to suck, it will only make it easier for Bennett to move to Oklahoma City.
We’ve got two years to get the legislature and the community behind us and also put a lot of pressure on Bennett to not move the team. The only way we can do that is by putting a winner on the court.
This is a reason why I think trading Allen was a bad move. With Allen and Lewis we won 31 games. At least we weren’t as bad as we are now. I don’t think Allen/Durant would’ve been that much worse. Plus Allen would’ve taught Durant the ropes, and also would’ve taken away the double teams. I know we would’ve still been bad, but not as bad as last year. At least we would’ve sold more tickets for sure. I believe that Allen had a bad year in Boston because he was playing the third wheel. I think a shooter like Allen would’ve still been good in Seattle as long as he was getting touches.
That being said I don’t see how rebuilding through the draft and waiting to see how Westbrook, Green and others pan out in 2-3 years is the best option for us. Right now the bottom line is we need to get better QUICKLY. The only way I see that happening is to go after some free agents.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Barbosa seems more like a natural SG to me.
Rumor is that Barbosa is available.
Think he would fit in?
Westbrook
Barbosa
Durant
Green
Big body to be evaluated later
July 1st, 2008 at 2:02 pm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25482250?GT1=43001
The last thing we need is for Shultz to be losing money.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Barbosa is an offensive threat and even an ok 1 on 1 defender but team defense suffers with him on court and his net effect appears to be pretty average. But he could be a decent target.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:21 pm
25 hours 39 mins
July 1st, 2008 at 2:22 pm
It would be nice if Balmer & co. would fund the arena and completely give Bennett no good reason to move. The cost would be about the same as buying the team. The arena would provide income from other hosted events as well.
my 2 cents anyways. It’s easy to spend other people’s mone
July 1st, 2008 at 2:22 pm
When is Presti goin to make a trade? Its time to make a couple deals and rebuild this team.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:25 pm
JJLOV, the primary pieces of teams in the Finals are usually found in the draft.
2007 - San Antonio’s big 3 and LeBron and Big Z on the Cavs
2006 - Dwayne Wade, Udonis Haslem on the Heat and Nowitzki and Devin Harris on the Mavs
2005 - Spurs again
2003 - Spurs again, Jefferson and Kenyon Martin on the Nets
2002 - Nets again
2001 - Spurs again
Clearly, Presti is attempting to implement the San Antonio model which has been wildly successful both in the drafting of international players at the end of the first round and building the core of the team through the draft. Once the core of the team is in place, free agents can be used to fill in needed roles. Those are your Horrys and your Derek Fishers and your Bowens and guys like that.
It’s waaaaay to early to declare success or failure of results, but the process involved with the strategy has been solid so far.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Ichiro he will start making trades at 4:01 tomorrow
July 1st, 2008 at 2:31 pm
He is going on 26 and contract takes him thru 28 0r 29. Modest price for an NBA scorer. Phoenix will probably ask for equal talent on a cheaper rookie contract so Sonics might not be able to field the best offer.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:31 pm
We’ve got two years to get the legislature and the community behind us and also put a lot of pressure on Bennett to not move the team. The only way we can do that is by putting a winner on the court.
Acually, I think the best way to do this, after the City wins its case tomorrow, is to get the damn funding package for a new Key Arena approved. That puts pressure on the NBA and other others to find a solution to keep the Sonics in Seattle.
You don’t typically put a “winning team” on the court in year two of a complete rebuild and “WE” don’t have any impact over, whether or not Clay Bennett wants to put a winning team on the court right now. I think it is obvious that Clay Bennett isn’t going to try and put a winning product on the court right now. He’s interested in building a solid core of talent and then once he’s in Oklahoma City he’ll look to add the final pieces necessary to have a winning team so I’m not sure where you are going with this line of thinking.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:36 pm
But the fact that Bennett was known to have influence over the draft is evidence enough for me that the drafting is at least a little influenced by trying to leave.
- The reason this makes no sense is that you are assuming that Bennett does not think the team will be in OKC next year…and he most definately does.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Thank you SeaSonics. The team is under the the salary cap in the league? Correct me if that is wrong. I wonder what deal(s) Presti is going to make. SAVE OUR SONICS!!!
July 1st, 2008 at 2:37 pm
That being said I don’t see how rebuilding through the draft and waiting to see how Westbrook, Green and others pan out in 2-3 years is the best option for us. Right now the bottom line is we need to get better QUICKLY. The only way I see that happening is to go after some free agents.
I think there is a disconnect between what you think the best short term plan for the team is, and what the current GM/ownership group thinks the best long term plan is for the success of the franchise.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Why would we want to get better quickly? Even taking the whole OKC situation out of the equation, I’d still want to put our window out about 2-3 years from now. Why?
There’s no good incentive to try and build up a team in the west right now. A 48 win team didn’t make the playoffs this year. The west is stacked. I’d rather be in the upper part of the lottery than the lower part, getting ready for when the balance of power shifts a bit back east.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Ichiro,
They will be under the cap with 7.5 million to work with if Robert swift option doesn’t get exercised, or something along that nature. I was only kiddding about that 4:01 tomorrow by the way, i am just thinking if the ruling goes okc’s way they will try to bring good players into the mix. I doubt they will shop around if the sonics stay .
July 1st, 2008 at 2:40 pm
“The last thing we need is for Shultz to be losing money.”
I wouldn’t sweat the store closures too much. Believe it or not Wall Street likes that sort of thing. They’ll see it as Starbucks getting its financial house in order. Their stock is likely to go up becuase of it.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:42 pm
MarkS you are on point with that one
July 1st, 2008 at 2:48 pm
I’ll repost this since it was stuck in moderation for a while:
hey guys,
I was wondering if you had any recent news concerning Mickael Gelabale, regarding his health and/or his contract. Does he have a future with the Sonics?
Thanks.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:51 pm
I agree with the point that Bennett doesn’t want to put a winning team on the court, which definitely makes it much harder to get talent on the court. But does that make it impossible? As for generating interest in the team, I think only a winner can do that. Given our current situation, I know that putting a winner on the court is unlikely, but I don’t see how else we could get interest in the team.
As for the funding package for a new arena, I don’t know how likely or unlikely that is going to happen. How far along aree those talks anyway? I might be wrong but I think having a successful team would make it more likely that they’d get the new arena done.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:03 pm
“Why would we want to get better quickly?”
Because if we win the court case tomorrow, we have two years to get an arena done. Nobody will want to get anything done if it looks like the Sonics will continue losing money. If we put a winner on the court, there will be an increase in fan interest and most importantly $$$$. The effort will be stronger to get an arena done by the time the current lease ends. It will also make Bennett look like a huge douche/bad owner to hijack the Sonics right when they’re on the verge of the playoffs if not in the playoffs.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:07 pm
I would rather suffer for 3-5 years of bad basketball and get rewarded with a potential dynasty than to watch mediocre basketball year after year. And when I say mediocre, I meant 40-45 wins every year but not good enough to get out of the first round of the playoffs and end up missing out on good draft picks. This is what attempts at a quick fix (such as keeping Ray and Rashard at overpriced contracts) gets you. Patience always pays off in the end.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Jared Says:
July 1st, 2008 at 3:03 pm
“Why would we want to get better quickly?”
Because if we win the court case tomorrow, we have two years to get an arena done. Nobody will want to get anything done if it looks like the Sonics will continue losing money. If we put a winner on the court, there will be an increase in fan interest and most importantly $$$$. The effort will be stronger to get an arena done by the time the current lease ends. It will also make Bennett look like a huge douche/bad owner to hijack the Sonics right when they’re on the verge of the playoffs if not in the playoffs.
Our team’s success will do nothing to keep the team in town if Clay is still the owner in 2010.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:18 pm
I would rather suffer for 3-5 years of bad basketball and get rewarded with a potential dynasty than to watch mediocre basketball year after year. And when I say mediocre, I meant 40-45 wins every year but not good enough to get out of the first round of the playoffs and end up missing out on good draft picks. This is what attempts at a quick fix (such as keeping Ray and Rashard at overpriced contracts) gets you. Patience always pays off in the end
***********
I’ve been trying to preach that EXACT same thing to both Sonics and Mariners fans for years now.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:23 pm
SeeJ Says:
Our team’s success will do nothing to keep the team in town if Clay is still the owner in 2010.
To do the awesome thing and quote myself, just so I can finish this thought.
The only thing a really good team will do for Clay is make it easier for him to make it through the next few years because the team will be bringing in more money for him. In two years, he may have a borderline playoff team… heck! If his team makes the playoffs, he could possibly turn a profit!
July 1st, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Mantra, that’s under in an ideal situation. In an ideal situation I would never want to be mediocre year in year out either.
But we need to create more interest in the team immediately or else Bennett will just walk after the lease ends. If we continue to suck the next couple of years, the odds of us getting a new arena are much lower. (If anybody has any evidence to the contrary that there is a pretty good chance we can get an arena, post it)
In our current situation I don’t see how patience could pay off and keep the team in Seattle. If you don’t mind watching them in Oklahoma thats a different story.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Seej, I’m going to have to disagree completely. IF an arena deal is presented from the region then the NBA won’t let him go. An arena deal becomes far more likely if the team is winning. The backlash from the community will be larger if the team is winning.
If the team does poorly the bandwagon fans won’t be part of the fight, an arena deal is less likely and the therefor the NBA would accept his relocation bid again.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Seej, I’m going to have to disagree completely. IF an arena deal is presented from the region then the NBA won’t let him go.
HA! You think the NBA can control the owners like that? If the BOG stopped him from moving (which they wouldn’t), then he’d end up in court with them.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:40 pm
“Our team’s success will do nothing to keep the team in town if Clay is still the owner in 2010.”
We all know Clay is hell bent on moving this team to O.K.C. and because he is the owner he can do whatever he wants so the team’s success and or profit might not matter.
If this team turns out a profit for him and makes the playoffs and he still moves the team that would suck, that would really suck.
But if we have a plan to get a new arena done and the team on the whole is more successful, you have to admit that it would be harder for Bennett to move. He’d be criticized heavily and everybody would know what we know about him. By that time we would have more community interest and legislative interest to keep the team here, if not move another team in.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:44 pm
In our current situation I don’t see how patience could pay off and keep the team in Seattle. If you don’t mind watching them in Oklahoma thats a different story.
Why you think it is a viable option that the team is going to go out and sign some big impact Free Agent in order to make them a playoff contender or “winning team” this offseason is baffling to me.
Would it generate more interest with the casual Seattle fan if the Sonics somehow managed to sign Elton Brand, trade for CP3 and trade for LeBron James this offseason, making them a title contender? Yes, but the the thought process leading one to think the team is somehow going to make any “impact” moves right now is just not based on any common sense or logic.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Jared,
I’ll take the opposite approach. If the team is winning, it’s easier for him to ride out the losses because they aren’t as great and gives him more resolve to take THIS team to OKC (his end game from day 1) because it could be a really good team in his hometown.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:49 pm
24 hours away.I got the bubble guts.
July 1st, 2008 at 3:59 pm
I wonder if the judge decided days ago or if she is still studying the summaries of both sides today. I think Lawrence laid out a really thorough summary of his case and hit all the points needed. I just hope she makes the right decision to enforce the lease and specific performance. We need a win for our team and to help the Schultz lawsuit as well!! The Supes belong in Seattle….forever!
July 1st, 2008 at 4:02 pm
You people act like it’s a choice between winning and losing. As if Seattle, Minnesota, Memphis, Clippers, Bobcats, etc all just decided to suck. Nope. They all realized (except maybe the bobcats, they don’t have a clue) that they weren’t going to win with their current roster so it was time to “rebuild”. Trade your assets for new assets. I would say Seattle is doing better than those other teams with less to work with (Garnett and Gasol should have returned a lot more than Allen). There was absolutely nothing that could have been done a year ago to turn this team into a winner. Allen + Durant + scrubs does not equal a winner. It equals a 35 win team….with less hope for improvement (no Jeff Green and less cap room until Allen leaves).
Rebuilding boils down to finding a Star, and two near/borderline stars. Then fill in the blanks with excellent role players. Very rarely is one of those pieces found through FA…flat out signing a guy without giving up something. I can really only think of a few, Carlos Boozer (and that was a shady deal). Billups might have been one too. Oh and Nash. So yeah, it can happen, but this is not the year for it. Wait and see what the needs are in 2 years, then make the move.
July 1st, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Jeremy, I don’t see how Bennett could want to move to O.K.C. more than he already does. But having a winning team would give the legislature and overall fan base more incentive to want to keep the team here. They would also be more likely to pass an arena deal, if the team is winning, rather than if we were losing. I don’t see how Bennett could want to move even more, but I do see how he wouldn’t want to move if he wasn’t losing money, there was a new arena around, and if the team was successful enough to the point that it would create public outcry to the point that his name would get tarnished if he indeed moved.
July 1st, 2008 at 4:05 pm
“Ichiro he will start making trades at 4:01 tomorrow”
LOL
July 1st, 2008 at 4:08 pm
To add my thoughts to this debate about the team getting better now or in a few years…if we start playing really good now it will make Bennett hold on to the team that much tighter. If they continue to be horrible maybe he will be more willing to sell. IMO.
p.s. what if Bennett sold the team but to another Oklahoma group so they could move it there? Is that possible?
July 1st, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Jeremy, I don’t see how Bennett could want to move to O.K.C. more than he already does. But having a winning team would give the legislature and overall fan base more incentive to want to keep the team here. They would also be more likely to pass an arena deal, if the team is winning, rather than if we were losing.
He owns the team. He’ll move the team when he can, arena deal or not. Do you not remember the sweet flip email? If we had gotten an arena deal done in the time he had for his good-faith effort, then he would’ve sold the team to local ownership and waited for another team to take to OKC. He doesn’t care about his public image in Seattle if he’s not a Seattle businessman, which, if he moves the team to OKC, he wouldn’t be anymore. Also (and it sucks to admit this), support for our cause has been crap on a national level.
Clay Bennt has the green light to move this team, and honestly, the only thing that can keep him from moving after 2010, is if he is no longer the owner at that time.
He won’t keep this team in Seattle, arena deal or not. Also, any arena deal that the legislature may put through will come with an asterisk on it that the deal will only go through if there is an NBA basketball team to be the main tenent.
July 1st, 2008 at 4:16 pm
And don’t try to point out that he only has the green light for one season. The BOG would not vote down his relocation bid, arena deal or not.
July 1st, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Seej,
Though I agree with you on that. I don’t see the NBA allowing this to drag much further if Bennett loses this lawsuit. I think there will be owners pushing extremely hard for a solution, which could mean potential expansion teams(2) in okc and VEGAS.
By the way if anyone wants to burst a blood vessel, go to NEWSOK and listen to the so called “NBA expert” (aka the Steven Smith wannabe) and the old man who stutters like a mofo, talk about the draft and the big news. Gut wrenching.
July 1st, 2008 at 4:27 pm
I guess the difference between our arguments SeeJ is that you believe that Bennett will move the team no matter what happens. No matter how unlikely.
I prefer to look at the glass half full, which is to say that there still is a chance he would keep the team here only if we have a combination of things going our way.
I know the chances of him staying here are pretty slim, no matter how good we are in two years, no matter what the profits are, no matter if there’s an arena just waiting to get approved, no matter the level of public outcry is, no matter how tarnished his name is.
The point is, I still believe the Sonics can stay.
July 1st, 2008 at 4:34 pm
“I’ll repost this since it was stuck in moderation for a while:
hey guys,
I was wondering if you had any recent news concerning Mickael Gelabale, regarding his health and/or his contract. Does he have a future with the Sonics?
Thanks. ”
Haven’t heard any new news since he tore his ACL three months ago. Highly doubt he will be re-signed.
July 1st, 2008 at 4:34 pm
I prefer to look at the glass half full, which is to say that there still is a chance he would keep the team here only if we have a combination of things going our way.
There is a fine line between optimism and naivety.
The only chance this Sonics team has of staying is if Clay Bennet no longer owns them. The NBA could grant him an expansion team, although in this case, I think it’s more likely that the NBA would grant the city an expansion. He could sell to local ownership due to pressure from media,nba, his co-owners. Or, the sale could be rescinded in the court case.
The Sonics will not stay in Seattle as long as Clay Bennett owns the team.
July 1st, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Is it just me, or is discussing who your SECOND favorite team is a sign that we’re giving up on the Supes cause? I’m not going to start cheering for my second favorite team until, the supes leave town…if they do. I like the Blazers now by default because of their connections to Seattle with Roy, McMillan, and Webster…but, they’re still rivals until the Supes leave town. Can’t root for the rival team. No way.
SeeJ–
I think that the whole “sweet flip” thing is a complete pile of caca. Who would agree to a $500 million arena that is the most expensive in the league? Clay would not sit down to discuss any other possibility. Plus, why in the bleep would he want a “sweet flip” then and complain now about the possibility of being flushed of all of his cash and being forced to sell. You buy low and sell high in business, and it’s not our fault that he spent too much on the team: which as much as I love the Supes was never worth $350 million. He didn’t intend to “sweet flip” anything. And unfortunately, I’m starting to feel a little bit jaded about the idea that we are kind of screwed if Schultz will not give back the $350 million as part of the settlement for his case. As the show says, it’s either DEAL or no deal.
July 1st, 2008 at 4:36 pm
The point is, I still believe the Sonics can stay.
As do many, you are not alone. However, you still must realize the number one objection to the Seattle Market right now coming from the NBA and from Clay Bennett is that there is not a viable NBA facility here. In order to take that objection away from them, you have to first get a viable NBA arena. That starts with a viable financing package. If you can take the NBA’s and Clay’s number one objection to the Seattle market away from them, then their position loses strength.
July 1st, 2008 at 4:43 pm
“Right now the bottom line is we need to get better QUICKLY. The only way I see that happening is to go after some free agents. ”
Except the Sonics have no cap room to sign any free agent of import.
If you want this team to get better quickly are you willing to trade Green or Durant for veterans, similarly to how Denver acquired Iverson and how Boston got Garnett? That’s how it’s done.
Wilcox, Watson, Ridnour, et al all have very little or no intrinsic trade value. Collison is probably the best trade chit they have right now.
July 1st, 2008 at 4:48 pm
I think that the whole “sweet flip” thing is a complete pile of caca. Who would agree to a $500 million arena that is the most expensive in the league? Clay would not sit down to discuss any other possibility. Plus, why in the bleep would he want a “sweet flip” then and complain now about the possibility of being flushed of all of his cash and being forced to sell. You buy low and sell high in business, and it’s not our fault that he spent too much on the team: which as much as I love the Supes was never worth $350 million. He didn’t intend to “sweet flip” anything. And unfortunately, I’m starting to feel a little bit jaded about the idea that we are kind of screwed if Schultz will not give back the $350 million as part of the settlement for his case. As the show says, it’s either DEAL or no deal.
This whole argument doesn’t make sense if you come in with this thought process:
“Clay Bennett does not want to own an NBA basketball team in Seattle.”
Your argument is that he made the proposition for the $500million arena in the hopes that it would fail. We agree on that. The “sweet flip” seemed to be a contingency plan for him just in case the arena deal actually went through. If the arena went through, he would no longer have leverage to move the team. Thus, the thought process would be that a basketball team with a new $500million dollar arena would be worth more than a basketball team without one. Honestly, I really don’t understand what point you were trying to make in the text that I quoted.
July 1st, 2008 at 4:50 pm
“And don’t try to point out that he only has the green light for one season. The BOG would not vote down his relocation bid, arena deal or not. ”
Sure they would. If there was a deal on the table for a new building in this market vs. OKC that’s a no-brainer.
Clay got put through the wringer the last time and his inability to broker a solution or find the magic dollar amount to make the eject button work will come back on him if he has to go hat in hand to his fellow owners again.
July 1st, 2008 at 4:52 pm
I honestly don’t believe they would ever vote down a relocation based on one simple thing.
It would set a precedent that an ownership group could be denied the ability to move their team.
I don’t see the BOG voting to limit their own power to do with their franchises what they wish.
July 1st, 2008 at 4:54 pm
“However, you still must realize the number one objection to the
Seattle market right now coming from the NBA and from Clay Bennett is that there is not a viable NBA facility here.”
Which is why I hold out hope that an increase in the team’s success, more profit, fan base enthusiasum, could sway our legislature to getting a deal done on a new arena.
SeeJ- I think I’ve made it clear enough that I believe Bennett will still probably move the team no matter what happens. But I also believe that there is a chance, no matter how slim, that he might keep it here. Maybe he might sell? Who knows. But believing that there is a very slim chance that he keeps the team here isn’t naive.
July 1st, 2008 at 4:57 pm
Even if an arena deal went through, the idea of a “sweet flip” doesn’t hold much water because Clay overpaid for the team. It was not worth $350 million. There’s no such thing as a “sweet flip” in business if you aren’t covering your losses. Clay Bennett is a businessman like Schultz who wants to make a profit.
July 1st, 2008 at 5:00 pm
What has Clay Bennett done so far to make you think that he’d want to keep the team up here? Filing for relocation? Fighting to terminate the lease early so he can leave?
No. Nevermind. You’ve convinced me. He’ll stay… because of… well… I dunno. But he’ll stay.
July 1st, 2008 at 5:05 pm
Payton delivered 6 assists per game his rookie season but I was surprised that it took him to year 3 to get to 12 points a game and year 4 to both at the same time. I didn’t recall it being that drawn out.
Westbrook’s rookie stats aren’t as important as year 3 and beyond. Becoming an average starter is within reach. Above that would be nice. I’d lean toward thinking he’ll prove to be a good pick with time.
July 1st, 2008 at 5:07 pm
HOW DARE YOU TALK ABOUT SONICS BASKETBALL ON TRIALCENTRAL.COM!
July 1st, 2008 at 5:08 pm
Which is why I hold out hope that an increase in the team’s success, more profit, fan base enthusiasum, could sway our legislature to getting a deal done on a new arena.
That’s not what is going to realistically happen that will get a financing package done. One of two things will happen, 1) Gregoire will get re-elected and SOS and the City of Seattle will put the pressure on her to live up to her commitment to find the other $75MM or 2) Rossi will get elected and he will find the missing $75MM that is needed to complete the remodel.
Whether or not a financing package gets approved by the Legislature in its next sesssion will have little or nothing to do with the teams W-L record during November and December of the upcoming season.
July 1st, 2008 at 5:13 pm
SeeJ- You’re clearly not listening to me when I have to repeat that I believe the chance he actually stays here is very slim.
I’d be stupid to say that he actually wants to stay here, what I’m saying is that it’s not impossible under certain situations, still very unlikely, but not impossible.
Xteve- If we can trade Jeff Green to a team and get a vet that could create enough team interest, $$$$, fan enthusiasum in a winning team that could get the legislature moving on a new arena, maybe even attract some owners, yes I’d do it. I don’t know if a winning team could have that kind of impact, but it’s possible.
July 1st, 2008 at 5:17 pm
Let’s make the team good to make Clay’s stay in Seattle as financially easy as possible!! WOOT!!!
ClayBennettCentral.com 4ever!
July 1st, 2008 at 5:20 pm
“One of two things will happen, 1) Gregoire will get re-elected and SOS and the City of Seattle will put the pressure on her to live up to her commitment to find the other $75MM or 2) Rossi will get elected and he will find the missing $75MM that is needed to complete the remodel.
Whether or not a financing package gets approved by the Legislature in its next sesssion will have little or nothing to do with the teams W-L record during November and December of the upcoming season.”
I mostly agree, but when the team is doing well it is waaaay easier to drum up support for the SOS cause, if they are just rancid like they were last year, only the real die hards will care enough to call their legislators to put pressure on the ELECTED officials to get a deal done. The better the Sonics play the more people we can get to show support, especially here in the fair-weather capital of the world.
But at the end of the day, it is probably negligible.
July 1st, 2008 at 5:27 pm
SonicsWarriorPrincess,
If the Sonics play well the City will get behind the team again. Funding and fans will be coming out of our collective Sonics ears. Think about it, the story this would make.. Seattle goes from 1 foot out the door to heroes, you can’t have a 4th if July with out some blood in the streets and heavy loses. The glory will taste that much sweeter having gone through what we went through, there will be a memorial outside the KEY to remember our pain.
Clay can not hold on any tighter then he already is. This is just one huge pissing contest by a bunch of hot heads. I just hope the City drank more water then Clay did..
July 1st, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Crazy Baron Davis now a Clipper
July 1st, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Here’s a question:
Let’s say we had kept Ray, extended Rashard to a rediculous amount of money. This of course leads to no cap space until Ray’s contract runs out, so in essence we are the same team as 2 years ago. Would interest of the team be considerably higher if we had an average of 32 wins the next 2 seasons compared to having an exciting young star and his sidekick while only averaging 25 wins?
July 1st, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Wow 5 years 65 mil
July 1st, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Mantra,
I always thought if we had durant, ray, and lewis we might push 50 wins. Just a theory, but if we had three deadly shooters I think we could have been ridiculous( being of course we got a better center via trade.
July 1st, 2008 at 5:41 pm
If the city wins this trial, I don’t think there is any need to do something drastic to try to immediately improve the team and generate fan interest. I think the trial and events leading up to it have already generated sufficient interest. If Clay loses, I think he’ll see the writing on the wall and sell to the Ballmer group pretty quickly.
I’m not feeling very comfortable with Pechman’s tenor in questioning Lawrence and Keller during their closing arguments. She was much tougher on Lawrence. Maybe this is another instance in which judges tend to go easier on the side that is more likely to lose/appeal?
July 1st, 2008 at 5:49 pm
“Payton delivered 6 assists per game his rookie season but I was surprised that it took him to year 3 to get to 12 points a game and year 4 to both at the same time. I didn’t recall it being that drawn out.”–Crow.
It was that drawn out. Some fans were saying that it was a mistake drafting him ahead of Chris Webber during his rookie year. That’s why I think it’s ludicrous to judge players by their rookie season these days. The days of having 1st year “impact players” like Magic Johnson are over… You’ve got to give Jeff Green and KD 3-6 years before you can begin to judge what kind of players they’ll turn out to be.
July 1st, 2008 at 5:53 pm
Mantra at 3:07….. I totally agree - I want a leadership of the Sonics that is serioulsy thinking about and committed to winning it all - and in the best case … developing a team that can have a solid run of 6-8 years where they are consistently winning 50+ games and are a legit. threat to win the title.
Dallas & Phoenix are examples of teams that have not won it all - but they have been serious contenders for several years & provided their fans with great hoops to watch and lots of drama in April/may
Assuming this - and taking a step back for the whole “Conspiracy theory” stuff.
I think Presti’s moves are solid - the real final assessment will be when we see how good his scouting is.
Will Jeff G. really be a solid starter/pro?
How good will Westbrook become?
Can he find a few guys later in the draft that become solid players in an 8-man rotation around KD? (White, Ibaka, ???)
I Love Ray Allen but I like the trade last year - because we were not going to win anything in Ray’s final 2-3 years - if JG becomes a stud we will enjoy him when KD is in his prime and Ray is retired.
I think R. Lewis is a very good player & would love for the Sonics to have him - BUT - Not at the money Orlando paid him - And I’m very pleased with the 3 #1 draft picks Presti Got and some trade exemptions still left over that may still help us.
If Westbrook and Green become busts - well Presti is a bust of a GM
If Westbrook and Green become studs - Presti is a terrific GM
The jury is still out on that - but I have no problem with the basic approach the Sonics are taking at this time in their team development - Presti inherited a mess - although he was incredibley fortunate to get the #2 pick last year for KD. It will take time.
But, I do not have much confidence in PJ.
July 1st, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Chris Webber was drafted 1st overall in 1993 — Gary Payton 2nd in 1990. So I have no idea what you’re talking about when you claim that some fans thought it was a mistake drafting Payton in front of someone — are you talking about Loy Vaught?!
July 1st, 2008 at 5:58 pm
“I mostly agree, but when the team is doing well it is waaaay easier to drum up support for the SOS cause, if they are just rancid like they were last year, only the real die hards will care enough to call their legislators to put pressure on the ELECTED officials to get a deal done. The better the Sonics play the more people we can get to show support, especially here in the fair-weather capital of the world.”
Griff,
We all seem to forget the M’s and 1995. No 1995 no Safeco. I have tried to point out that the 20 wins of last year has no real focal point outside of KD. Our coach is blah and frankly the use of our draft picks is blah. The current political environment does not indicate that we will be able to hold the Gov and Legislature to the $75 million. I would have been nice if the Sonics made some splash instead of drafting for three years from now. I am very concerned that if we win and they play the next two years that January will come and go and no additional funding will come. Because frankly as good as KD is and will become last years team was really hard to watch.
July 1st, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Wrong draft. Derrick Coleman went #1 in Payton’s draft year…
July 1st, 2008 at 6:14 pm
How much would the Sonics have to offer for Chris Paul next year to put it out of reach for New Orleans to match?
July 1st, 2008 at 6:24 pm
JJ, Mantra and some others put it very well.
In so far as I’m concerned, Presti and whoever else is involved really think things through and don’t generally get stuck on poorly conceived notions.
Once there was a plan, and the plan appeared to be pretty damned good. Is that from a movie? How do things turn out in the movie?
July 1st, 2008 at 6:27 pm
How much would the Sonics have to offer for Chris Paul next year to put it out of reach for New Orleans to match?
You must have missed the headline today. Chris Paul and Hornets are nearing an extension. Extension suppose to be for an additional 3-5 years.
July 1st, 2008 at 6:32 pm
Damn
July 1st, 2008 at 7:09 pm
I really just don’t see Presti being much of a player for free agents who don’t have expiring contracts. From all of his moves, it just seems that he wants a group of players who will all peak at the same time…kind of like what Pritchard is doing in Portland. I don’t see the Sonics going after big name until 3 yrs from now when KD and Green are peaking. On a positive note, Chris Ford really liked our draft:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2008/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=DraftGrades-080627
That’s not shocking though. I think he’s the only draft guru who predicted that we would take Westbrook. All the same, it’s encouraging. Even when I look through the rosiest of glasses though, our pick at #24 makes no sense to me. Karl Malone liked Saer Sene, but, that never made Sene good. I don’t see how our 24th player is much more than a raw athlete either… I hope I’m wrong about him.
July 1st, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Zonics-
Makes sense thank you. Thanks for the name too.
July 1st, 2008 at 8:49 pm
James B. - for hope on the Sonics #24… Go back and look at the last 10 drafts and all the players taken after the 24th pick. VERY few NBAtarters are to be found - or stars - a few - but not many at all. Given that - I am OK with rolling the dice a bit and taking a flyer on a very yound and Very athletic kids who seems to have a serious NBA body. I assume Presti & co. looked hard at his chasracter and work ethic. It is a reach - but historically, anything at 24 is a reach.
I have no idea if this kid Presti took can play - but I’m OK iwth the philosophy - roll the dice at #24 and try for the kid with more potential - bigger risk - bigger reward.
July 1st, 2008 at 10:05 pm
remember, quite a few of those picks in the 20’s that panned out were San Antonio picks. if anyone can find a star/starter at the end of the first round, it’s Sam
July 1st, 2008 at 10:49 pm
Mantra Says:
“Here’s a question:
Let’s say we had kept Ray, extended Rashard to a rediculous amount of money. This of course leads to no cap space until Ray’s contract runs out, so in essence we are the same team as 2 years ago. Would interest of the team be considerably higher if we had an average of 32 wins the next 2 seasons compared to having an exciting young star and his sidekick while only averaging 25 wins? ”
Okay I’ll bite… everyone seems to focus on the last two years of the Ray/Rashard show and the mediocre 37 and 31 wins produced. The thing is, Coffee Boy had already shut down the team in terms of getting ANY kind of players to surround those guys. Even with the draft they were trying desperately to get a center because they had let all their free agents go. Those two guys certainly could be on a winning team together if that team had NBA talent at the other postions. Sure we had Luke, Earl, Nick… thats about it. After the 52 win season Seattle let players go (which made sense with NY giving JJ so much money) but did NOTHING to replace them. And it had everything to do with losing money.
Rashard said several times he wanted an extension–Seattle would not have been looking at 6 year max contract like he got in Orlando if they had resigned him early.
My only point is that those guys showed this year they could do great on better teams. Paul Pierce, KG, Ray, Rashard, all sucked at winning when they didn’t have a good team around them… and the previous management ensured losing. It wasn’t that you couldn’t build a good team with them if you tried. Getting the #2 pick in the draft, adding a good big man thru trade would have put this team back into the playoffs.
I know that would not have gotten them to championship level and yes the current rebuild has more potential to do that, maybe, in a 3-7 year time horizon.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Looking forward with the rebuild project, I see the biggest problem as how to find a big man or two. Presti has yet to make any trades for one, but that could be coming. Free agents won’t sign here for a couple of years, so that leaves next years draft. Are there any Oden type prospects out there?
I’m thinking in terms of how elite teams have a superstar or at least a star at either the 4 or 5 position, followed by two or three other big bodies to roll out for defense and fouling purposes. SA, Det, Bos, LA this year, Pho, Dal, Hou, Orl, the past few. I guess Cleveland is the only exception to that I can think of although Z is better than any big we have had in a long time.