Happy Independence Day!
Posted on Thursday, July 3rd, 2008 at 10:50 pm by Steven Pyeatt
(For some reason this thread went offline early this morning, and when it did it ended up with a lot of spam links in it so I don’t think it was an intentional act)
I know I don’t start a lot of threads here but I felt I needed to today, even if it is a little early.
To start with I want to wish everyone a very happy and safe celebration of the founding of our great nation. As one who greatly appreciates what this country stands for this is a very important day for me. It means that we have the right to have different beliefs and opinions and we need to honor and respect those rights for others.
That said when someone challenges my integrity I am ALWAYS going to take them to task. What is amazing is that someone would think they could make a claim that is completely false and get away with it. If anyone should know anything about me by now is that I don’t go looking for fight but if you bring one to my doorstep you are going to know you had a battle on your hands.
I stand behind my actions, I take responsibility for my words, and I expect no less from those I deal with. To whoever it was that claimed I took payment from Clay to do anything I am calling you out. Have the spine to step up and be accountable for your actions because I am not going to let that load of crap go unchallenged. If you don’t have the integrity to do so then you told us all we need to know about you. Step up or go hide under a rock. Clay has plenty of job openings for that kind of person.
One thing everyone remotely involved with this cause knows is that Brian and I have spent 2 years working on this issue and not only have not made one single dime from it we have more invested in this cause than anyone could ever imagine. We do this, without pay, because it is what has to be done and because we don’t quit without finishing what we start. So enough said on that issue.
For those who may wonder where I have been since yesterday here is your answer. I have done no less than 5 TV interviews, 20 radio interviews, countless conversations with print and internet news sources, meetings at city hall and other places, and fielded nearly non-stop calls from nearly every person that knew my phone number that wanted “the scoop” on what has been going on. All this during a week of “vacation” for myself and my bride for our first Independence Day as a married couple. If you can put 2+2 together I think you’ll figure out why I have not been hanging out on the internet. 
As to the comments made. I have not seen the news coverage so I don’t know specifically what went out on the air but I’ll tell you what I said (Obviously not word for word but this is the “gist”) to the “gaggle” of reporters all wanting quotes at the same time: “This could have been much worse for us. The City had a chance to take a cash only deal and just walk away. Had they done that they would have sealed our fate and we may never have the NBA here again. Because of the efforts of our group the climate was such that the city knew they could not do that. We had hoped for a blow out win but instead we got a buzzer beater shot that keeps us alive for a game seven. Because of the failure of the Governor and leadership in Olympia we are at the point where the current group of players is leaving. But we have a chance to keep the Sonics playing here long term. For that to happen we need leadership in Olympia and we need them to get this no brainer deal done come January, no excuses, just action.”
So whatever was aired piece that into the context above and hopefully it makes sense. I don’t do the Clay Bennett “What I really meant was this” crap. I take responsibility for what I said. If it came across otherwise I apologize and remind people that Brian and I are not pro’s at this. We don’t regurgitate the same talking point over and over to make sure that no one gets an interesting quote. Right or wrong that’s the way it is. The media interviews us because we don’t do that. If we did they would pass us by and never give us coverage. But as a leader of this group I work hard to make sure I keep the hope alive. Anyone can go on camera and whine and anyone can quit, but I choose to keep in the game.
Now, where do we stand? Clearly not having Durant and company here this fall is bad news. My wife shares the viewpoint that most have that the Mayor sold us out and that is a position I can’t tell anyone isn’t fair to have. But I have to look at the cards we are dealt and figure out how to win with them. While we were fully prepared to lock the team in for two years and take our chances that we could find a way to force a deal that kept this team here there was a very real chance we could have got to the end of that two years, had the team leave, no arena expansion on the table, and no hope of ever having the NBA return. We would have been very attached to the young players on the team, even though they would never be close to making the playoffs, and then would really hate losing them. We would spend 2 years “us vrs them” fighting against the NBA, Clay, everyone. Now instead we have the NBA, Clay, and everyone working to get Seattle a team AS LONG AS Olympia steps up and figures out how to get a “no brainer” done. Why? Because Stern and the NBA are greedy, they have a chance to get the arena deal done AND get the richest ownership group in the league on board. Of course the NBA wants him in the league. Clay wants to save $30 million AND find a way to get Shultz off his back. We know that Stern and Ballmer talked and both left the conversation with Stern knowing that Ballmer is not only 100% certain the Key Arena expansion solves the arena issue but is also a non-negotiable. That he will be in this for the long haul if they make this deal and Ballmer left convinced that if he gets into the game he will end up with a team here.
Now the interesting wild card here. Howard Schultz refused to sign off on this deal and there is every indication that he will put full resources into pursuing his case against Clay. Lester Munson said his case had a 55-60% chance of winning, but even if it is only 20% that is a 1 in 5 chance that this Sonics team could be right back here in Seattle as soon as next year. You don’t think Oklahoma, Bennett, Stern, and the rest of the NBA won’t want to find a way to prevent that from happening? Can you imagine the hell on earth for Clay in OKC if the team were there for one year and then ended up coming back to Seattle? If his case is allowed to move forward in court you can bet they will be right back at the table ready to solve the problem.
So I rambled enough for now but I just wanted everyone to know that I am not quitting and will see this through as long as everyone wants to continue the fight.
Happy Independence day!
Steve
July 3rd, 2008 at 10:54 pm
man. i hate to loose..but this aint over. SOS
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:01 pm
You stay safe Steve…on another note…from the Oklahoman……A year after becoming the Seattle SuperSonics radio voice, Matt Pinto is on the move again. Pinto, who has been an NBA broadcaster for 19 seasons, said Thursday that he plans to join the team in Oklahoma City……makes sense-the team they are getting resembles the car with the same name. We will take care of the REAL voice thank you!!
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Go America!!!
A true INDEPENDENCE DAY from the lying carpetbagging ownership group the PBC.
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:08 pm
ive through all the stages of depression. now im a optimistic freak
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Thank you for your work. I just wish it had turned out better for you.
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:13 pm
Bringing this over from the previous post…also, Steve, you’re no sellout…thanks in perpetuity for your work.
Just a warning, this is long…been thinking about this a lot.
Brian, and all the guys at SOS, we could never repay for what you’ve done. Even in our current, wounded state, we have support from all around the country to get something done and restore the Sonics to their rightful place, playing basketball in Seattle, whether it be through the full-court shot (or half-court shot, depending on who you talk to) of Howard Schultz’s lawsuit, or through the anointing of Ballmer for Grizzlies collection/expansion. Without your work, the Sonics, or the replacement Sonics, however you feel about it, would probably never come back.
No matter what Mayor Nickels says, he is a sellout, a spineless jellyfish whose indecisiveness and weakness has not only cost us next year’s Sonics, at the very least, but the city of Seattle on the whole as well. Simply, if I were you guys, I would not support a KeyArena remodel, unless it was basically a rebuilding, with as much recycled so that it’s both ecofriendly and easy enough to swallow for Chris Van Dyk and his union buddies, because it still limits the ability of the building to make money. The more business there is in the arena in which the Sonics play, the financially healthier the Sonics will be.
There is little to no reason to trust Mayor Nickels, Governor Gregoire, or Frank Chopp, and their efforts since the PBC bought the Sonics bears that out. I’d see, if you could, if you can get B2 and Steve Ballmer together and work on an arena in the area of the two other stadiums, or Seattle Center, if it has to be there. Seattle Center, in my opinion, would be better off as more green space, as it is not as well equipped to handle the traffic as the SoDo area is. Private money still seems the best way to go, and they’ll be happy to invest it in the city if given the opportunity. If you can, though, press for a new design…the potato bug Emerald City Center needs to go.
KeyArena, for all its great NBA sightlines, is crap, from its nonexistent legroom to its inability to hold any events of value other than basketball and concerts. It needs work not only on the exterior, or in the addition of suites, but added seating capability and multipurpose abilities. Without it, we could run into the same troubles over and over again. Let’s do it right, let’s get the Sonics back, in one way or another, let’s sign Kevin Durant when he’s a free agent in a few years, let’s win a championship and refuse to accept the Larry O’Brien Trophy from David Stern. I don’t live in Washington as of now, but I’ll help however I can.
Also, Kingdome, count me in…it’s time for the Seattle Totems to finally make it to the NHL, after 35 years of waiting.
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:13 pm
its good to know that there are still a few people with morals and heart.
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:18 pm
Thanks for all you have done Steve.
I give you total benefit of the doubt on your comments to the press. I know it is tricky. 99% of the people here I think understand that and know what you are doing & appreciate it.
I agree with your wife. Nickels blew it - sold out - choked under pressure - got intimidated. He listened to Stern threaten him about never coming back to Seattle and then promising if we play ball with him now he will be open to us getting a team later etc. etc. - Nickels was totally intimidated by Stern.
To some degree we are probably paying the price for having a mayor who really just does not “Get it” in terms of sports and being a fan. 2-3 Sonics games in his life? He does not get it.
He should have taken his chances by keeping the team here for the next 2 years and seen if the various pressures would have made Clay fold. There were risks either way - We all know that - but this was a bad move.
O well - Go howard Go. It is ironic but Howard is now a unique source of Hope. His case is solid and Stern is afraid of it - NBA owners are afraid of it - that is good - and that is why Nichols should never have caved in and done this settlement. His case could leverage some good things from the NBA for Seattle.
I want nothing to do with Seattle trying to take another cities team and putting another group of fans and their community through anything even close to the garbage Stern has led us through.
To immediately jump into allaince with Stern & nickels at this point seems ….. dicey …. weird …. naive …. not sure what word I’d use - but something is “off” in such a venture.
I know it is complicated - and emotional - and many uncertainties are in front of us. Each one will have to decide what to do. I respect that. But for Nickels to lie, betray our trust, spit on the SOS cause and fans the way he has and then ask us to help him, to work with him, to trust him and to work with Stern with a vision to someday maybe get another cities team (And do to that city what Clay has done to us - the only difference is we annouce our selfish intentions at the beginning)…. on this day this does not work real well for me.
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:22 pm
Steve, you should run against Nickels.
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:34 pm
JJ, thank you.
I am not letting the Mayor off the hook for his failings on this issue but I do have to give him some credit for not just takiing the “big check” and closing the door on us.
The deal is very cleverly crafted in the sense that it gives everyone incentives to get this deal done and get another team in here.
Am I mad as hell that this team is leaving? You bet.
But someone has to keep a cool head under fire and I guess that is my role in this deal.
I spent a little time last night trying to figure out how to get all the elected officials that failed on this deal onto one rusting ferry boat at the same time so we can sink it in the bay but after a while my brain turned to problem solving mode.
I was ready and able to gear up for the big fight the next two years but the one thing that has always been a problem in this issue is the moving target. Every time we turn around we had to aim in a different direction and with little time to do it. The one good thing out of this is that we now have very specific tasks to get done and a reasonable time frame to do it in.
I was a kid when that rat bastard Selig found a way to bankrupt our Pilots and sneak them out of town. It took a while be we got the job done and ended up with the Mariners out of it. I don’t think this one will take that long, and in the end they will still be the Supersonics, but I think everyone will look back on this 10 years from know and realize they were part of a very special group that fought the good fight and in the end Saved Our Sonics.
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:36 pm
Sorry Sam, I am lucky enough not to live inside the city limits of Seattle.
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:39 pm
arena
good work Steve
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:43 pm
as a 4o year fan of the sonics i am as sad as anyone to see the team leave.but my emotions have blinded me to some realities that im starting to see.
reality #1.bennet wanted to leave.
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:49 pm
Steve,
I was disapointed in the folks talking trash. You have done more than anyone posting and I appreciate that with all my heart. You and Brian are heros despite the outcome. The fact that people like you exist still gives me hope. THANK YOU!
-Vieper
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:51 pm
Schultz’s lawsuit has two claim. The original claim was for fraudulent inducement, with the only remedy being a voiding of the sale with the team placed in trust until sold to a local ownership group.
Later, Schultz amended to add a second claim for breach of contract. If Schultz wins on the breach claim, then he gets monetary damages, but the team would not return. The damages would be the fair market value of a team, less the original sale price of $350 mil. Since NBA teams are rare, it could be prohibitively expensive.
If Schultz proves fraudulent inducement, he can get the team back. This is much harder to prove. It must be proven that at the time the contract was signed, the PBC did not intend to honor the contract. The PBC’s later actions are irrelevant. so even if it is proven that the PBC did not give a good faith effort for one year, that is not necessarily proof that they never intended to make a good faith effort.
A failure to perform a contract is breach, not fraud.
A broken promise is breach, while a false promise is fraud. It is much easier to prove a promise was broken than to prove the promise was made falsely.
The PBC will say they meant to perform, they even inquired as to what they had to do to meet the good faith requirement (although it was to meet the NBA’s requirement and not the contract’s requirement that they made the inquiry). They will say that their intention was to do the minimum good faith, and if they succeeded in getting a stadium package, then they would get a sweet flip.
The only problem with the current settlement is that the PBC and the NBA seem to now be admitting that a remodeled Key Arena was a viable NBA venue. Yet during the one year, that venue was rejected so strongly that Bennett cancelled meetings with the City. Also, Bennett knew that Schultz had been pursuing a mildly subsidized Key, which he had not been able to obtain. Yet when Bennett to took over, he demanded a whole new arena, inexcusably presented the matter too late in the legislative session, failed to put money on the table or cap cost ovveruns, etc.
Schultz’s case is very viable, especially since he amended it. But if he wins monetary damages on the breach claim, that won’t restore the team. Still, I would welcome seeing Clay Bennett bleed green and David Stern testify.
Soon, Bennett will almost certainly file a motion to dismiss, which Schultz might lose. Then it ends before Stern is deposed.
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:52 pm
“The deal is very cleverly crafted in the sense that it gives everyone incentives to get this deal done and get another team in here.”
I’m not trying to be a smart@ss here, in fact I hope someone can correct me, but it seems like the incentives in this case are completely misaligned. Whether or not we get another team hinges on the actions of two parties: the NBA and the WA legislature. However, the settlement package provides little incentive for either party to act in the best interest of Seattle fans.
Bennett, not the NBA, is on the hook for the $30mm contingent payment. The NBA has no direct economic incentive to procure a team for Seattle by 2013 (yes, they have incentive in the form of an attractive new owner in Ballmer, but the $30mm is irrelevant to the league).
And what compels the state to sign off on the arena? They can continue to hide behind the idiotic excuse that “there is no team to build an arena for”. They will continue to act in a way that is politically expedient, and given the way the NBA just raped us, I doubt there will be much state-wide support for an arena. Furthermore, you could even argue that the city has a disincentive to secure a team ($30mm contingent payment).
It would be nice if the NBA had an economic motive to get Seattle a team ASAP, but that is not the case. It would be nice if it had been structured such that a carrot was held in front of the legislature to convince them to pass the remodel next session. I understand that all this is easier said than done, but I’m struggling to see how the City could have agreed to a deal with such a screwed up incentive schedule.
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Steven, Brian & the rest of SOS- Thanks so much for all your efforts.
I always thought basically Nickels & Bennett were playing a game of chicken. The only problem is Nickels drove off the road with road with about a mile to go.
Steven put it great here: “Lester Munson said his case had a 55-60% chance of winning, but even if it is only 20% that is a 1 in 5 chance that this Sonics team could be right back here in Seattle as soon as next year”
Bennett & Stern tried to ignore the Shultz lawsuit, but this is why Bennett would have never waited out the 2 years in Seattle. He would have sold the team. It’s one thing to take the losses for 2 years if he’s know’s he’s going to get the team in OKC after the 2 years. It’s another thing to take losses for 2 years on the chance that he may get the team to OKC after that. Even if it is an 80% chance, it’s still a risky move when you’re talking about $30 mil in losses a season. Add that to the fact that his team would be playing for those 2 years in a city where he public enemy #1. There is no way he would have stuck it out. The Mayor got duped.
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:57 pm
I think Doug T. makes some good points above & some of these were on previous threads today.
Nickels & Gregoire and olypmia cannot be trusted.
They are dishonest and incompetent - bad combination
If an arena effort is going to be made - maybe the focus needs to be on private money - one sites beyond seattle center.
Again… this is if you even want to move ahead trusting Nickels and Stern and feeling OK about a vision that plans and hopes for taking another cities team.
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:58 pm
If only the mayor had not settled, and Seattle won the lawsuit to keep the team here two years. Then, facing massive losses, plus the cost of relocation, plus the uncertainty of the Schultz suit, Bennett may have surrendered and OKC would have gotten the expansion team.
July 4th, 2008 at 12:02 am
sorry hit the wrong button.
reality #1 he wanted to leave(how he’s going to recoup 500 million in okc,i dont know)
2.the people of this state are overwhelmingly against funding another sports arena.
3.the politicians of this state and city,not wanting to lose their jobs have listened to them.and heres the important thing they will continue to do so in the future,which means no single issue sports funding.
4.even if the city had prevailed in the lawsuit,they would of lost in the end.the team would leave in 2 years and the nba would be so angry that they would of never come back and youd still have a 45 million dollar debt on the key and no tenent.
5.ok so heres the part after everyones pillorized nichols.hes turned a losing situation to a winning one.
6.hes retained an open door with the nba.
7.before the lawsuit bennet offered 10 million,they invested what 1million maybe 2 in the lawsuit and got back another 33 million
8.he now can retire the 45 million debt,sorry to all us fans but its a brilliant business move.
9.now will see what happens but lost in all the plans and whatnot was the idea that all of the city center needs to be redone.one that includes many items that satifies the MAJORITY of voters,arts culture education,and now you fold a new arena plan (with some private funding from the balmer group) into the package and wala you have something that the politicians can get behind without losing their jobs.
10.now you’ve got a new city center vibrant,relevant,with a state of the art new arena that includes parking.and from which a new team can make money.
11.losing the team sucks no doubt,but nichols didnt sell out,he just read the writing on the wall better then any of us.and maximized his leverage.for that he’s got my thanks
July 4th, 2008 at 12:03 am
great post steve…its hard to think about my childhood team will not be here but I hope something can be work out soon and we can have sonics basketball here in seattle. who knows maybe in 2 years we can get durant and green back..how cool would that be?!
July 4th, 2008 at 12:05 am
K-Man at 11:52…
We will never know for sure - but I agree with you 100%.
The mayor gave away our best chance to keep the team. Clay was bluffing - he went all in - Nichols had the cards but he folded.
He got bullied and he wimped out on us - covered himself with the Money - tries to look good and if it downs not work he will blame Olypmia.
Coward - Idiot - that is the Seattle mayor
He should have let the court rule - even if they had ruled for PBC there was another trial for damages - likley huge.
GRRRRRRR
July 4th, 2008 at 12:07 am
Coz,
Thanks for everything. Thanks for stepping up to the plate once again. Thanks for willing to make tough calls and to take pot shots from guy who have no clue how deep your fan blood runs. Enjoy some time with your bride. If she saw you through all this, she’s obviously a keeper!
Big Chris
July 4th, 2008 at 12:24 am
Steve, I wish it was true that you would get your wish for another NBA team. I don’t see it happening. No team, no arena . . . no arena, no team. There is no way to get out of this mess.
My question is . . . what happens to Key Arena now that it doesn’t have a tenant? Do they look at ways to tear it down and put up another building of some sort? Do they try to re-purpose it? It seems to me that Seattle has to do something with that property. Maybe they can sell it to a developer. An upscale apartment that close to the Space Needle might be interesting. The city is going to have to make a decision soon. It has no purpose right now. They can’t leave it sitting there empty.
July 4th, 2008 at 12:25 am
Thanks Chris,
She is a very special lady. She went from girlfriend to fiance to wife since this thing started and even though she knew what she was getting into she still has gone above and beyond to be supportive. She is amazing and I am a lucky man to have her.
July 4th, 2008 at 12:25 am
Thanks for stepping up and defending yourself Steve. Like I said earlier…the only problem I have ever had with this group is how quickly people are willing to turn on someone because they don’t say the exact thing they want to hear.
This whole situation has clearly been horrible that considers themself any sort of NBA fan. I have very clear reservations that the NBA will ever be successful in this City again…for some (possibly including me) the scar has just been cut too deep. However, to turn against one of the primary reasons why we are even here talking about this team is just flat out unacceptable. I hope everyone has learned to appreciate the people who have stepped up to keep the team here and will not be so quick to judge their actions.
July 4th, 2008 at 12:30 am
Guess who. Thanks for your concern but it is misinformed.
We will have our arena expansion. If it doesn’t happen in January we have an ace in the hole to get it done before the deadline.
That said this whole thing can change in a heart beat as the Schultz case moves forward. Imagine the panic in Oklahoma next spring when this goes to trial and they realize there is a significant risk that they could lose everything.
I would think that Bennett, Stern, and the electeds in OKC would pull all the stops to find a way to get a team for Seattle and end that nightmare. If not then they wouldn’t be too bright and would deserve to watch the Sonics come back to Seattle and realize they would never get another chance at the NBA.
July 4th, 2008 at 12:32 am
Steve you rock!!
July 4th, 2008 at 12:43 am
Sorry, but I don’t have any faith in the legal system right now. Liars seem to get their way. I don’t think the Schultz case will make it to trial. I think Bennett will get it dismissed through more lying, deceit and fraud.
The legislature will not authorize taxes for an arena expansion without a promise of a team. Stern won’t give Seattle a team with out a solution to the arena. So, how do you get through all those hoops? You can’t. It is a Catch-22.
Besides I don’t trust anything that has been said by the mayor or anyone else in city government. I don’t trust Stern as far as I can spit. I don’t trust our state government to do one blessed thing.
I have resigned myself to the Sonics being gone and in 5 years all of the history goes permanently to OKC.
I hope that I am wrong, but right now, I am totally disillusioned with the legal system. And I worked in law for over 20 years.
July 4th, 2008 at 12:54 am
Ballmer will get something done. Just think of the next couple of years as a ‘vacation’ from the Sonics. Seattle WILL get them back!
July 4th, 2008 at 1:45 am
Thanks, Steve. I just got home from a job and went on-line. This afternoon, I almost took the links to all the sonics news outlets and sos off my toolbar. I was ready to not read or hear about ever again, but you’ve restored a little hope. One thing about hope, a little goes a long way. We might have Sonics ball again after all and though it’ll never be the same, it could be all right.(I was going to write that it would be ok, but that is a phrase I will never use again. OK is not ok anymore) Bottom line: Thanks Steve! Also, Steve, can posts from okies be sent to moderator purgatory forever? After a couple of pisses on the campfire these guys should be blocked. I have fired back on these guys with great vengeance and fury and still they are oblivious.
July 4th, 2008 at 1:57 am
Happy Independence Day?
What the hell are you being all happy about this is F*()*)(!@ hell for us.
Our heart just got ripped out our chests
!@*(&@!(*
July 4th, 2008 at 2:02 am
i appreciate all your work steve, but i think you’re wrong.
the mayor sold us out. he took a cash deal. he took a cash deal with some window dressing, but he took 45 Million dollars and walked. That additional $30M doesn’t exist, either we won’t get an arena deal done (most likely) or we get one done and we’ll get another team.
A team I don’t want. How many people here do you think are ready to put another city through the hell we’ve been through for the past 2 years?
I’m sorry Steve. But at this point, I wll be lobbying against getting another NBA team. I’d rather learn hockey. They never told me I don’t matter.
July 4th, 2008 at 2:09 am
Steve, I’m really glad to hear from you on this and know that the rumor was not true. It sounded pretty far-fetched to me but when I didn’t hear anything more either way, either confirming or denying or just talking about it, I started asking questions and trying to find out if there was any truth to it. By doing so, I probably did more to spread the rumor than the person who started it (whom I don’t know), but it started sounding plausible to me. The way your comments came across on the News, it sounded like you were saying that this was a definite WIN FOR US, and that the glass wasn’t just half-full, it was almost completely full. They just played sound bites and they said that you were trying to put a positive spin on losing the Sonics, but no one else was feeling that way.
I have it recorded and about 25 other news reports, so if you want to see it, I can look through them and find it for you. My thought on seeing it was “What the heck is he talking about”? And I thought that it was really peculiar. A caller on KJR said the same thing after hearing you. When I was scrambling around the internet trying to find more stuff on the move, I came across a guy saying you sounded like you were talking for Oklahoma, not Seattle, and someone else said that he thought that you might be on Clay Bennett’s payroll. It may have been a joke or a flippant remark. My computer crashed and I couldn’t find out any more.
In my inquiry to put the rumor to rest, I think I did more to spread the rumor than to put it to bed. I inquired by email to some of the Core group and didn’t hear back, and I posted it in a thread, not as an accusation, but as a request for someone with more knowledge than I to speak and I even asked you directly in the post to respond, but moderation kept it from being viewed timely, so it got absolutely no response. The one thing that I did not do, and I apologize to you for it, is that I never emailed you directly to ask you to comment on it. I thought about it, but I actually started to get paranoid that maybe it WAS TRUE and you were on Clay Bennett’s payroll all along, so I wanted to hear from other people first who could put my fears to rest.
It seems pretty crazy, but when weird things are going on all around and I’m still in perpetual moderation when I was promised that I would be taken out of it (it makes me feel like I’m invisible because no one can see my comments and respond to me in a timely fashion making it virtually impossible to have a real conversation with anyone) and you’re losing the team you’ve loved for 40 years and you’re really emotional, you can start believing all kinds of crazy things. I apologize for not em’ing you directly. I think that it was a little cowardly of me. And after witnessing the biggest act of cowardice I’ve seen in a long time from Mayor Nickels, I don’t want to go down that road.
What we have just witnessed here is the stupidest thing I’ve seen in awhile. The Mayor could have gained a lot by letting the Judge give her decision. He probably would have won, and, if he hadn’t, he would have bought a lot more time and would have had a new trial to set damages and may have gotten a lot more money - or not - but he had little to nothing to lose by letting things play out.
This was a game of Chicken - a great stare down - and Mayor Nickels not only blinked first, he got down on both knees and kissed the collective ass that is Clay Bennett and David Stern. It was total intimidation on their part and Mayor Nickels succumbed to it. He got cold feet and completely caved, and got far less than he could have if he had waited and let the Sonics at least play here this year. I think Clay would have gotten desperate and upped his offer a lot - or he may have cried Uncle, but now we’ll never know.
Steve, I know what kind of work you’ve done for Save Our Sonics and it’s extensive and mostly unrewarded. I have faith in you and Brian, and I know that you guys can’t do it all alone and don’t do it all alone. I hope that you can forgive me for ever letting a shadow of a doubt enter my mind. This has hit us all so hard. We also have to face the realization that Mayor Nickels who convinced Brian that he would never sell out for money (but would demand specific performance), is just as big a liar as Clay Bennett. Take care. Happy 4th. Rest up and let’s get back after it after the Holiday.
July 5th, 2008 at 12:16 am
Wait… Steve P is Coz?
What is this ace in the whole? Another secret we’ll never hear about?
Like I said in previous thread, if we have to start over why shoot low witha Key remodel and have this happen again? We should shoot for the stars and make the rest of the NBA wish they were us.
July 5th, 2008 at 12:19 am
I enjoy reading Rock’s analysis of the Schultz case.
Schultz has also filed a negligent misrepresenation claim against the PBC. Schulz has a strong argument that the PBC was careless and negligent in making represenations to Schultz that at the time of the purchase the PBC would for 12 months engage in good faith best efforts to secure an arena deal in the Seattle area. Schultz may not have to necessarily prove intentional fraud to rescind the sale, Schultz also has a shot to rescind the purchase based on his negligent misrepresentation claim.
The intentional misrepresenation claim is pretty strong, but proving negligence is generally easier than intent. The negligent misrepresenation claim in the Schultz complaint should make Bennett sweat a little bit more here.
July 5th, 2008 at 12:24 am
Steve P, I’m curious to know what your “ace in the hole ” might be and whether it means Grizzlies or expansion. Much props to you and Brian.
I’m not as optimistic though. I think Schultz has a strong case but if he wins, he’ll get his compensation in the additonal $100m that Larry Ellison offered. And CFMIT is going to rear its ugly head again whether it be dealing at the City level or Olympia.
To Kyle and other posters who refuse the presence of a new team, please just take the high road and opt not to follow rather than be obstructionist elitists of the CFMIT / SEIU ilk.
July 5th, 2008 at 12:27 am
Steven,
Thank you for all your efforts and contributions towards this cause. Its people like you that have kept us going during these tough times and give us reasons to keep fighting the cause. I am more than willing to help in any way to get an arena deal done and get a new team here. Thank you again!
-Robbie
July 5th, 2008 at 12:37 am
I totally agree with Steve 100%. We werent going to get a perfect deal out of this situation, so you play the hand youre dealt at the end. Nickels could have done much worse. The biggest end result, to me anyway, was that the NBA said that a remodeled Key would work. That is huge to me. Esprcially since Stern’s buttbuddy was trying very hard to convince a judge and the public here that The Key wasnt an option for the NBA whatsoever. Couple that with the wink and nod deal to a local ownership group and I’d say that cahnces are way better than not that the NBA will be back in the near future. My guess is 3 years max. Not too bad, IMO. And we are almost guaranteed a 20 win team, which is what we are losing. And not to be insensitive but rather lookng at the bright side, there were alot of players ( mostly drafted centers) on the Sonics the last few years that I would just as soon see play in OKC. Sorry if I offend anyone.
July 5th, 2008 at 12:40 am
Zendoc, while you did the right confessing on sonicscentral that you played a role in spreading falsehoods about Steve, it was a real low thing for you to do that in the first place. You owe Steve an unequivocal apology, without long-winded explanations or excuses.
July 5th, 2008 at 12:41 am
CFMIT did a great job of stoping Qwest Field and Safeco Field. Fear them not; fear our idiot elected lack-of-leaders.
July 5th, 2008 at 12:44 am
Kyle Says: I’m sorry Steve. But at this point, I wll be lobbying against getting another NBA team. I’d rather learn hockey. They never told me I don’t matter.
Exactly. That’s what I’ve been trying to say forever but never found the words. After 16 years as a season ticket holder I don’t know if I can go back to a league that has told me I don’t matter.
July 5th, 2008 at 12:54 am
Devils Advocate Stuff
The Schultz case seems like a longshot to me. I feel like Howie waited too long before crying foul. He should have been on PBC from the get go. Instead, his good faith side letter may come off a little like bait and trap to a judge and jury. You can be assured that some jurors will ask why he didnt push Bennett a little harder to keep his promise earlier. Maybe after the 500mil plan Bennett took to the State. At that point it may have been wise to threaten PBC with a lawsuit or atleast openly question PBC’s attention. Howie seems to be totally setting his case on the email trail, saying he didnt know for sure that PBC was defrauding him until the last minute when the emails were discovered. If that’s the case it could be iffy.
Just my opinion.
July 5th, 2008 at 12:57 am
I meant the PBC’s ‘intention’ not attention. I’m having a problem with mine. Its late and Ive had a helluva 4th.
July 5th, 2008 at 2:00 am
Steve,
Thank you for write a thread. I am glad that we get to hear on what you have said. You did great job and glad to know that we are still going to fight to get the arena deal in work.
I hope Schultz’s lawsuit will expose the NBA and Bennett. That way it will be done by legal system. They can not get away this time as I hope that is a sweet revenge of bad karma on Bennett’s.
I will stand on my opinion that Mayor Nickels SHOULD NOT settled before the verdict. All I hope that SOS and Ballmer group will work to do something to get the fund for the arena. I know that city is ready but I am not going to believe them anymore. As for Olympia or Governor Gregoire saying she will do her part. I am not going to believe that either. All I want SOS, communities, Ballmer group, and other investors to work on this plan. The trust from the city has been betrayed. I understood Steve’s perspective. The situation should have been about right and wrong of doings and have the legal system interpret and enforce the law without money.
I will look forward to see what is going to happen. But I am still at loss with Sonics in Oklahoma. All I am going to hope that Sonics will be back after next year. I am not in the favor to take another team from other NBA fan. Expansion team is okay but it could have been done for Oklahoma. I still don’t understand why Clay is so hard to fight to keep the Sonics. I have figured on how much Clay’s group has spent on and so far he has spent over 525 million dollars. Any smart businessman will sell the team and get another team to save money. That is something that I hope Yarmuth will find the truth during his investigation.
Again, Steve thanks for the thread that you wrote and hoped you enjoyed your day with your wife.
July 5th, 2008 at 3:02 am
Paul Schneiderman, I agree that I owed Steve an apology for believing that there could be any truth to the rumor and I offered my apology to him, BUT I also strongly disagree with you that it was a REAL LOW thing for me to do. I just wanted the truth - I was in no way trying to soil someone’s reputation.
I cast no aspersions on Steve’s character and I respect him very much, yet you come on here and cast aspersions on mine.
I am trying to explain to you and everyone else my frame of mind at the time. It wasn’t good at all. I was filled with pain.
I needed some answers and a hug. How can you tell me that it was a REAL LOW thing for me to do???
I admit I did get a little paranoid while I was trying to make sense out of what happened. And to hear Steve say that this was a “Definite Win for Us” on the News - - - it just did not sit right at all. If you have not seen the News clip yet, you really should - then try to put yourself in the shoes of the average Sonics’ fan and think of how that sounds. Really, really bad. I wanted and felt we ALL deserved an explanation of why Steve said what he did. I never heard one from Steve but someone else offered one and I just wanted to know if that was what was going on or was there a more reasonable explanation for the comment?
I’m sorry, in retrospect, maybe I should have just gotten drunk like a lot of people and passed out and totally numbed myself to the pain. I don’t know. I DO know that none of US are the villains here and we will need to stick together and support each other, pick up the pieces and move on with our lives. Peace.
July 5th, 2008 at 7:20 am
“I’m sorry Steve. But at this point, I wll be lobbying against getting another NBA team. I’d rather learn hockey. They never told me I don’t matter.”
Yeah, they did, you weren’t watching. They canceled a whole season and threw their fan base under the Zamboni.
Why don’t we all just put this dellusion away of pro sports franchises caring about fans and being about their best interest? They care about their pocketbooks, and if they can line them without doing ANYTHING for the fan, they’ll do it.
If you think this view is wrong, look at Mark Cuban. He’s a fan that had enough to buy a team and he’s not afraid to say what he feels. He says all the same things “fans” say, but because of his position, he gets fined.
He voted against the good ole boy network (the club he’s supposed to be part of), and with the fans in the OKC relocation. He gets it. He has a blog where he talks to real people, but the League treats him like dirt.
Rally against getting another NBA team? I understand your feelings, I have the feeling of really caring less about the NBA right now after a lifetime of it being my favorite sport (and the Sonics my favorite sports team), but what’s the value of rallying against it?
If the League wants a team here, guess what? There’s a team here. And the reason? Because they can make money here.
They wanted a team in OKC. Guess what, they have a team in OKC which they stole from us, but, hey, who cares? THEY WANTED IT.
The winner in all this? The Sounders FC. They already have a place to play, a solid ownership group and no baggage (the Sounders have always been pretty successful in this region). They’ll step into the vaccum created by the Sonics leaving.
I would never work against the NBA returning to Seattle (argh, it just left!!!), but I don’t know about working for it. I’m pretty sour on the NBA right now. If FSN pipes TrailBlazer ball into the region (which would help the NBA coming back to Seattle because it would keep the League before the region’s eyes) I might watch a bit, but it will be passion-less, detached viewing at best.
July 5th, 2008 at 7:31 am
“Paul Schneiderman :
Zendoc, while you did the right confessing on sonicscentral that you played a role in spreading falsehoods about Steve, it was a real low thing for you to do that in the first place. You owe Steve an unequivocal apology, without long-winded explanations or excuses.”
He apologized. He also wanted to explain himself. Move on.
July 5th, 2008 at 8:23 am
Forget about the talk a good game but do nothing politicians who let us down. All this settlement money from Clay and NONE of it will go to the $75 million we need to complete the Key Arena deal? Sounds like bait and switch to me. Who needs a new Key Arena that will be just as uncomfortable as the present one because you KNOW, bigger footprint or not, they’re still going to try to cram in as many people as they can. B2 was a front group for Clay… anyone else want to drink the Kool-Aid? Bellevue is a non-starter. The NIMBYism won’t allow it.
Guess what? The Muckleshoots are in the process of constructing a hotel. They don’t make grand pronouncements of what they’re going to do. They just do it. It’s almost as if the politicians are always ignoring them because their sovereign nation runs so much more smoothly then the bloated bureaucracy that is city, county and state government. We need to somehow facilitate a deal brokered between Ballmer and the tribe, 2 entities known for action, not broken promises. That’s my suggestion and I’m sticking to it. I’ve seen no one else come even close to stepping up to the plate.
July 5th, 2008 at 8:42 am
While I was aware of it beforehand and stressed during the trial — I followed the KING5 minute-by-minute blog and called Mayor “Sold Out for a Bag of” Nickels’ office when the settlement rumors surfaced — the reality of all this is only hitting me.
I am so incredibly disappointed how our political leadership — especially Licata, Chopp and Gregoire — have failed us over and over on this issue. I blame Nickels, too, but I have to (HAVE TO, for my sanity) believe that they and their lawyers saw some lemons in the case and decided to make lemonade. If we’d lost the case, the money may or may not have been the same, but Clay would have surely kept the Sonics history and identity to himself just out of spite.
Why is that a big deal? Because I worked for the SEATTLE Supersonics for one summer 20+ years ago. I was the last person to be The Wheedle. I never got to work a game (it was the offseason), but I had the chance to meet so many kids at public appearances. I got to ride on the back of a Rolls Royce in the Seafair Tochlight Parade with Jack Sikma and Gerald Henderson. I will always have the memory of Gerald Henderson asking me, some dopey high school kid, if I wanted to go have lunch with him beforehand. I still laugh when I think about the Queen Anne restaurant owner that insisted on checking his ID when he gave a credit card.
All of these memories are with the SEATTLE Supersonics and Clay can’t have them.
My deepest thanks to Brian, Steve and everyone else that worked so hard on SOS. With the Schultz case out there, I still hold the smallest glimmer of hope for a surprise ending. I hold out hope that a change to a Governor Rossi will lead to a change of results in Olympia. For all of the NBA posturing, I have to believe that somehow we’ll have basketball in Seattle within the next five years. I tell myself that these are just “rebuilding years.”
The biggest reason for hope is directly related to the actions of the SOS folks — organizers and participants. You proved that Seattle is a first class basketball city.
Thank you, guys!
July 5th, 2008 at 8:50 am
I’m not sure that the fact that Howard waited so long to file is a big issue. He can argue (I think successfully) that although he had suspicions earlier, it wasn’t until the emails surfaced that he felt he had a case. His filing was very timely with respect to the emails becoming public.
I disagree with Guess Who on the likelihood of this getting dismissed. Even if the odds are 1 in 5, this does not get dismissed. At that point, I believe the NBA steps in and a facsimile of the Sonics is back.
My struggles are with the perpetuation of this broken business model that requires suitor cities to help hold host cities hostage. For most teams, the NBA cannot stand on its own in terms of profitability. The NBA needs to get its cost structure in line with the game’s capacity to generate revenue instead of relying on sweetheart deals from the public. That said, the Ballmer offer is truly an acceptable partnership between a public/private entity, recognizing benefits to both, that hopefully will set a standard for the future.
I’m am absolutely schizophrenic on this issue right now.
July 5th, 2008 at 8:55 am
Steve - no explanation needed I don’t think. Everyone who has a level head on their shoulders knows news stories and interviews clip sound bites that get taken out of context. If someone doesn’t know that and can’t put 2 and 2 together you certainly shouldn’t feel you owe them an explanation.
On the arena front - I don’t want to get to the point that this becomes beating a dead horse but we as a community have a chance to make wine out of vinegar. Let’s not make the same mistake twice and become beholden to the NBA only with any arena solution. This building must be suitable for the NHL so we don’t find ourselves in the same situation 15 years from now (or less).
If we are going to get back in bed with Stern/NBA we need to have something else to fall back on.
July 5th, 2008 at 8:58 am
Great post bballdeluxe. I agree with everything you said.
I understand the knee jerk emotional reaction about all of this. Heck, for the first day afterwards, I was the same way. But come on people! Take a step back and think this threw.
Do you people honestly think that the Mayor woke up in the morning and thought, “you know what? I think I’m just going to cave and look really bad in public.”
This decision was made after serious talks with the people actually involved in this debacle, not us fans on some message board. We’re talking seriously powerful people who make things happen. David Stern, Steve Ballmer, Mayor Nickels, and yes, Clay Bennett. I wouldn’t doubt it if Michael Heisley, owner or the Grizzlies, was involved as well.
I’m confident that the Mayor and Ballmer wouldn’t have made this deal if there wasn’t a “behind the scenes” plan in place.
I’m confident that this plan is designed to get the Memphis Grizzlies here. Don’t start this “I don’t want to steal another team” blah blah blah. The facts are that the owner wants to sell, no one in memphis wants to buy the team, and the city would actually prefer that they leave because they make more money on college games than they do on the NBA. If Ballmer doesn’t buy them, someone else will. That’s a fact.
-We’ve got the Governor’s letter promising the funding.
-We’ve got Ballmer standing behind the plan.
- We’ve got the Mayor who took a massive PR hit and needs to follow this plan through,
-we’ve got the NBA drooling over having Ballmer as an owner,
-we’ve got the NBA owners wanting the 13th largest media market back in the folds
-we’ve got Clay on the hook for another 30m if this fails
-we’ve got another NBA team that will move, regardless of seattle’s involvement or not
-we’ve got one of the richest men in the world talking to Stern and feeling confident enough to stay involved.
-we’ve got probably the most organized and passionate group of fans in the league that can legitimately make things happen
All this adds up to one thing. NBA Ball will be played in Seattle again within three years. Everyone needs to open their eyes and start thinking this through with less emotion. Heck, in five years, i wouldn’t doubt it if the seattle sonics have a better record than the OKC team.
-=csco
July 5th, 2008 at 9:00 am
I’m glad most here are willing to continue fighting, but at hte same time I would have preferred the two years of “us vs. them” because it is the only way for the leage and Clay Bennett to experience a Karmic event. Instead they are both “rewarded” after all this lying.
July 5th, 2008 at 9:04 am
How can Memphis move? From what I’ve read on here, they have an even stronger lease than was here (not to mention longer duration).
July 5th, 2008 at 9:12 am
Brett,
I agree with you on the NHL. In fact, I’ve contacted the mayor on this issue already. We’ve seen how the NBA operates and to build anything to their specifications that limits competition should be off the table.
July 5th, 2008 at 9:33 am
Steve,
Like you, I was pissed to see people calling you out right after your comments on the settlement. For anyone to question your love and loyalty for the Sonics, just doesn’t sit right with me. I chalk it up to utter shock and disappointment at the situation. And some fans misdirected their anger and disbelief at you.
Please know, we’re all behind you. You and Brian have gone out of your way time and time again to help save this team. While we may have lost the fight, we WON’T lose the battle. I’m looking forward to the day the Sonics are playing in a renovated Key with Ballmer as owner, and the stands full of passionate fans in a sea of Green and Gold!!!
Thanks again, Steve!!! You are the man!!! Happy 4th, brother!!!
GO SUPES!!!
July 5th, 2008 at 9:44 am
“Paul Schneiderman :
Zendoc, while you did the right confessing on sonicscentral that you played a role in spreading falsehoods about Steve, it was a real low thing for you to do that in the first place. You owe Steve an unequivocal apology, without long-winded explanations or excuses.”
I too asked about the validity of the rumor (which I did not start). I’m not apologizing.
Do you know how many people stabbed us in the back. We had more a less a promise from Mayor Nickels that we were in this too the end and we would not settle.
If I would have told you when Howard Schultz bought the team that he was going to eventually sell this team to an OKC onwership group and the team would be gone, then you would have called me crazy.
Every person that WAS supposed to be on our side (outside of SOS) turned on us. So yes, amidst the rumble and the despair, when I hear a rumor that yet another one of our camp may have turned, I want to know for sure. If anything asking it right away clears the air, rather than letting it float around.
It is good to hear that at least one so close did not cave. Steve, thank you for coming out and denying it. I am not trying soil anyone’s good name. I’m just tired of being sold up the river.
I know I am not the first to state this, but I just don’t know how to deal with this despair. I don’t know whether to cry or scream. I want to punch holes in my apartment wall to let some of the anger out, but I don’t feel like getting evicted and having to pay for all of it. I am trying to be forgiving, because this posionous feeling is cankering my everyday life, but forgiving this is so hard. Not to mention that even if we get a team it will be one that the OKC team will be beating up on for the next few years.
The only way that I will ever support the Sonics again, is if we have a guarantee that this team will never be moved again, an assurance from the Ballmer group that they will go after Durant and Green via free agency and offer them enough money to get them back here, and an arena that brings the AFL and NHL to seattle. If we cant get that then no dice.
Also, I agree with all of you that we should not be jumping to the bandwagon of the Blazers…but at the same time…what’s the difference between them and the new Sonics we would have? They will actually have more about them that is Seattle than the new Sonics we will have will be?
The new team we will have will STILL have to SHARE it’s history with the PBC. The team we will have will probably be stolen(or re-stolen) from New Orleans or Memphis. I don’t buy the “Robin Hood” mentality here. It’s time to step away from the NBA for now.
July 5th, 2008 at 9:45 am
I disagree with Guess Who on the likelihood of this getting dismissed. Even if the odds are 1 in 5, this does not get dismissed.
I don’t think I ever said that I thought it would be dismissed. I think that Bennett is hoping it will be dismissed. I have no idea what the odds would be. I do know that Munson has said one more time (and as recently as this past week) that he thinks that Schultz has a 55-60% of prevailing.
Regarding the Memphis situation, their lease runs to at least 2016 and has heavy penalties to an early termination. I have read $100M per year, but then I have read something like a one-time payment of $50-100M which isn’t so bad. I don’t know if Memphis still wants their team. I do know it is for sale.
July 5th, 2008 at 9:49 am
Here’s an article about the Memphis Grizzlies lease:
http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/feb/29/grizzlies-are-not-leaving/
July 5th, 2008 at 9:54 am
“-we’ve got probably the most organized and passionate group of fans in the league that can legitimately make things happen”
Yep. We sure do, we’ve been through a lot together, I just don’t trust promises anymore…other than the guys at SOS, noone in our government actually cares about us. Are we forgetting that elected officials do the will of the people involved? Are forgetting that A Deal is a Deal was passed? Bottomline, our government failed us. The League failed us.
I understand guys, that we all want Sonics basketball, but, man…I just have to many words to say and the temporal emotions both good and bad are not adequate to express them.
July 5th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Interesting article, but as we know full well from personal experience none of that matters. The NBA is talking nice because they got the taxpayer bailout they wanted there. That doesn’t mean that the team won’t be moved, just that they don’t have a reason to not sound committed since they are not trying to extort anything from them.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:00 am
“Interesting article, but as we know full well from personal experience none of that matters. The NBA is talking nice because they got the taxpayer bailout they wanted there. That doesn’t mean that the team won’t be moved, just that they don’t have a reason to not sound committed since they are not trying to extort anything from them.”
Part of what I was thinking. Legally, the Sonics should have stayed in Seattle. What I am having to accept now is that our legal system is veering from what is right and more so to who have the silver tongue.
I just find it funny that the NBA made sure SO MANY provisions were laced into that Memphis contract, but not into ours at the time of sale to the PBC.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:00 am
wherearemyrings,
The $45 million has to be used to pay off the Key Arena bonds and the legal fees from the case. That doesn’t leave a whole lot of money and what is left will end up keeping Seattle Center afloat while they get back on track.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:05 am
I’d prefer an expansion team over the Grizzlies or Hornets. After what we went through, there’s no way in hell I’d advocate doing the same thing to either New Orleans or Memphis. With that said though, if the league is eyeing relocating a team to Seattle, my money is on the Hornets instead of the Grizzlies. With the Grizzlies iron-clad lease at the FedEx Forum, it would be tough to pry them away. The Hornets, despite a nice playoff run, may still not meet their attendance requirements next season, which would allow an exit. Would George Shinn sell to Ballmer? That’s a tough one. I don’t think he wants to be in New Orleans. But I don’t think he wants to sell either.
I know with a couple of struggling franchises Stern doesn’t want to add ANOTHER team to the league. But that a-hole owes us. If he’s not gonna relocate a team to Seattle, then award us an expansion franchise. I’d prefer that anyway. Our first big free-agent acquisition could be Kevin Durant.
BTW… I was watching an old Stanford/UCLA game last night on tv. Seeing the hustle and defensive lockdown ability of Westbrook really made my heart hurt. I had to keep reminding myself he was actually gone and will be in OKC next year. He would’ve been SO much fun to watch playing with Durant and Green at the Key. Damn that piece of crap, Bennett!!!
GO EXPANSION SUPES!!!!
July 5th, 2008 at 10:08 am
I definitely found it humorous that the columnist in that article took the NBA’s word as gospel.
Sure there’s more hurdles in that lease than the Sonics had, but like you said. It can all be worked around. And if Ballmer is committed the 100+ mil (I’ve read somewhere it’s at least 150, but that article makes it look less) buyout would be ok.
Personally, I have not problem with Memphis coming back to the PNW. They should have never left Vancouver to begin with and Memphis just doesn’t support them.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:09 am
To be clear I am not advocating, nor do I believe that Ballmer would ever be involved with, “stealing” another cities team.
There are teams failing in other markets, teams that WILL be relocated at some point. Memphis, New Orleans (one hot streak and barely meeting their attendance mark doesn’t save them) and others are going to be moved.
*IF* a team is going to be sold, and moved, AND the city that hosts them negotiates a deal to let it happen, then I wouldn’t have a problem in principal.
If expansion were on the table in a couple years I personally would prefer that. After all the players that just left are pretty much an expansion team for OKC. They sure couldn’t have been much worse if they had started from scratch.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:13 am
Just wanted you to know Steve, I never doubted you. I know everything you said was try to put out the most positive spin you could by the days stunning turn of events. I’m sorry you had to be put in this position after dedicating 2 years of your life with very little reward. My hat (my Sonics hat) is off to you and Brian for a valiant effort. Now on to the start of a new battle!
July 5th, 2008 at 10:14 am
Hey Steve, have you and Brian talked to KD in the last few days? What did he have to say if you did?
July 5th, 2008 at 10:14 am
zeppe u sound liKe the okies on newsok. well guess its a dog eat dog world.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:15 am
I can understand the Mayor’s settlement to an extent. I understand the threat of losing the team with no possible replacement after 2 years. What I just CAN NOT understand is why he gave away our history. I don’t understand why The Ford Center gets to hang OUR championship banner. OKC fans, remember when you look up at that banner that you DID NOT earn it. You bought it. You stole it. Sure does make you proud, don’t it?
Also, B2 wants a new arena anot NOT a renovated Key. SCI (Ballmer & Co) wants a renovated Key and NOT a new arena. They are not going to work together, people. Give up on that idea. Sorry to say it but they’re intentions are polar opposites. The Key is where we need to focus because B2 isn’t offering to buy us a team.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:17 am
You don’t think Clay is a little more than worried about keeping his new toy in Oklahoma City past the Schultz trial? I just discovered on his new little OK City ticket request list the following in the disclaimer….
In addition, this request is solely to determine interest in tickets and the team will be under no obligation to play games in Oklahoma City in any particular season.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:20 am
SonicsScott, expansion won’t happen. As much as Stern owes us, it’s not up to him. It’s up to the owners and they don’t want to “dillute their product” with another team. It’s a sad truth.
I would feel bad buying the Hawks, Hornets, Kings, Bobcats and bringing them here. I would NOT, however, feel bad relocating the Grizzlies. They were a Northwest team to begin with. They were hijacked from Vancouver and taken away before they even knew what hit them. We would be bringing them back where they belong and giving the ORIGINAL Grizzlies fans a chance to take a quick trip down I-5 to see the team. Not only that, Memphis has no history and no fan base. I’m sure there are diehards there as there are in any city, but that market is just not capable of supporting an NBA team, just like OKC will soon be. I’m not sure the people of Memphis even know they have a team at this point.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:20 am
Speaking of more important things like Our Nation’s Independence, did anyone else see the 7-part HBO series on John Adams, our second President? It is absolutely a fascinating mini-series. It tells the whole story of the American Revolution from the Boston Massacre, for which 8 British soldiers were arrested and put on trial for the murder of 5 Colonists, I believe. They had no attorney to defend them in Massachusetts and the Colonists wanted them all hung. John Adams stepped up to defend the British soldiers at trial (and lost over half his clientele for doing so). Against incredible odds, in a jury trial, he won the case and got the British soldiers freed when he proved that the Colonists were taunting the soldiers mercilessly, throwing snowballs, sticks, and oyster shells at them, wielding clubs, and knocking one of the soldiers to the ground discharging his rifle, while someone else in the crowd bellowed “Fire!” and the other soldiers fired into the crowd.
I know it’s OT, but it is a fascinating story that has never been told like this before. I had no idea that John Adams was so critical to the Revolution. He was a much better and more convincing orator than anyone else at the time, including Ben Franklin, George Washington, and Thomas Jefferson. Franklin and Jefferson were far better writers and Washington was the military man, standing 6′4″ and towering over all the other colonists. He had an incredible presence, but was also pretty taciturn until later in his Presidency.
John Adams strove to always tell the truth and didn’t play the political game for votes like his competitors, who all tried to smear his name apparently in order to get the Presidency, especially Alexander Hamilton, who sounds like our original dirty politician, but even Thomas Jefferson funded a rag stating falsehoods about Adams. Of course Jefferson was in the other Party, but he was also John Adams VP. Instead of having a second term in office, Jefferson won the Presidency, and that turned out pretty well, too.
It’s fascinating to see that when Adams was leading the debates on the floor of the Continental Congress over War and Peace and Independence, he spoke to Jefferson (who was from Virginia) one day about the fight for Independence from Britain and was astounded to discover that Jefferson was in complete agreement with him. (Independence from Britain was initially a very unpopular position). Adams to Jefferson: “Then why haven’t you ever spoken up in Congress”? Jefferson replied “I have no gift for oratory.” But Adams marvelled at Jefferson’s gift for writing when TJ came up with the Declaration of Independence.
I could go on, but suffice it to say it is a very profound and fascinating miniseries to watch and a major part of our heritage that is probably unknown to most of us. And here’s the really good part: it is now available on 3 DVD’s (parts 1-2, parts 3-4-5, and parts 6 & 7 with a lot of extras about the research and the making of the series. It made me realize how much John Adams has been underappreciated as a (if not THE) major force in America’s struggle for independence and freedom from oppression. I would give it 5 Stars and a hearty recommendation. For anyone else who has seen the series, what are your thoughts?
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July 5th, 2008 at 10:22 am
“If expansion were on the table in a couple years I personally would prefer that. After all the players that just left are pretty much an expansion team for OKC. They sure couldn’t have been much worse if they had started from scratch. ”
Amen to that. I actually find myself not missing the 20 win team as much as I thought I would. My harshness fell mainly on who we were losing out to. The predatory capitalists that lied and stole.
No offense but there were players that I would just as soon see play in OKC. Mostly Walker and Sund draftees. And they can have PJ. As the dust settles I feel like an expansion team would be the best outcome. No stains involved. Pure, like a newborn baby ready to be fully embraced in a green and gold outfit.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:22 am
“In addition, this request is solely to determine interest in tickets and the team will be under no obligation to play games in Oklahoma City in any particular season.”
Part of me says who cares what he is feeling, good people never win. But then another part of me is saying could mean something.
This also plays in accordance with the lease he signed with the City. He is covering himself so that when this team cannot sustain itself in OKC he can hightail it or run a “sweet flip” to the highest bidder.
What I find truly sad about this whole thing beyond us…is that the Okies who are supporting this don’t see that they are being set up for what could be a temporary fix.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:30 am
That’s how I see it as well Joshu@…I know the Okies are pumped to finally have a team, but they might not want to invest their hearts into the team right away, they could be in for a big letdown.
Many people think the league shouldn’t expand by 2 teams, that it would further dilute the NBA talent level. You have a point, but you are forgetting the league doesn’t have to have an even amount of teams. It can expand and make it an odd 31 team league. They NBA has had an odd amount before, and it worked just fine. Don’t think to get an expansion team here, we have to get another team someplace else as well.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:35 am
BTW… how many years do you guys give OKC before the franchise is in trouble financially? I know Bennett and his group have deep pockets but with the cost of purchasing and relocating the team, plus breaking the lease here, they’ve already spent a TON of money. I think after a couple years, the excitement of an NBA team will wear off, and their attendance is gonna nose-dive. I’d say they’ll have trouble averaging more than 12,000 - 13,000 fans. Before too long, Clay-Clay will start whining and eventually realize he and his butt-pirate lover Stern were severely mistaken for thinking those Okies could support a team full-time.
No way in hell Durant’s agent allows him to resign down there in the dust bowl. Plus, good luck trying to sign big-time free agents Presti. You think any quality player is gonna want to play down there? In a few years, the NBA will sorely regret this decision to allow this team to be hi-jacked out of Seattle.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:40 am
I don’t see how the Memphis team can be sold and moved. At least, not until 2015. In 7 years, this city will not care if there is an NBA team or not. They will move on. Husky basketball will do the roller coaster that college sports does, but will gain in support. Maybe some become hockey fans. Maybe some just find other ways to get from football to baseball season. But 7 years is a long time for fans to hold on.
In the 7 years that Behring owned the Seahawks, a lot of people abandoned the NFL. It took years for some of those people to return. It actually took the 2005 season to get some of them back on the bandwagon.
If there isn’t a team playing in Seattle in the next 3-4 years, I don’t see a big push to get the NBA back.
July 5th, 2008 at 10:57 am
Great words! This isn’t over!
July 5th, 2008 at 11:08 am
guess who, did you foresee how the Sonics could be bought and moved before 2010?
July 5th, 2008 at 11:31 am
guess who, did you foresee how the Sonics could be bought and moved before 2010?
Yes, I thought it possible. We didn’t have the large buyout in our lease. No one is going to buy the team and then pay that huge buyout.
July 5th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Joshu@, I agree with your 9:44AM post in talking about checking out rumors. Our entire worlds were turned upside down just as we thought (or KNEW) that we were sitting on the edge of victory. There had to be a better explanation for the Mayor completely reversing himself and selling us out and when I heard Steve say that this was a definite win for us and the glass wasn’t just half-full, it was almost completely full, I knew that either he knew something that I didn’t and that wasn’t being explained or he had some other motive for saying it, that I failed to comprehend.
As it turns out, he did have another motive for saying it, and I believe that was to try to help us get through this without thinking it was the end of the world. I really believe that his motive was as simple as that. It was more of a paternalistic statement, trying to put a positive spin on it for the Sonics faithful, so we all didn’t start jumping out windows. I couldn’t see that at the time, but I kind of do now, in retrospect. Steve, please correct me if I’m still missing the mark about your comments. I agree with Joshu@ that a discussion of something like this is very healthy and should be welcomed in a country that has freedom of speech and not suppressed as a subversive discussion. That’s why I’m really glad that this thread was put back online.
Joshu@, my post from 3:02 AM this morning just came out of moderation so you may not have seen it yet, but it addresses Paul Schneiderman’s comment, which I was frankly surprised at coming from an attorney. I’m not going to demand an apology, but I think that it shows far less respect for me than I was showing for Steve P. (I was not trying to disrespect him) and basically shows no respect for (or love of) Freedom of Speech.
Oh, and Wheedle, welcome back! I guess you weren’t included in the sale to OKC, huh, since you’re a retired mascot? But then again you are part of our “shared history” right? Probably not a part that they would care to claim, though. Come to think of it, neither does Seattle. But several of us at SC.com & SOS still love you.
July 5th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Steve,
Keep up the great work. The conspiracy theory involving you and Clay was nonsensical at best.
I’ve seen a few posts on the board making the point that the Sonics would have been gone after the lease expiration and Nickels made a sound decision in settling. I disagree for the following reasons:
1) The NBA Board of Governors only approved Clay’s request to move based on the lack of an adequate venue in Seattle and without information that incriminates Clay as a lying carpetbagger who always intended to steal the team and acted in bad faith to facilitate the theft. If the Soncis were required to stay the last two years of the lease, Clay’s move request would be voided and he would have to reapply to the NBA BOG.
There is now adequate interest in the area to support building an adequate facility. Ballmer’s group and the city came up with $225 miilion last spring. Fred Brown said that his group had all sorts of offers to supply funding for an arena. What are the odds that an additional $100 miilion or so can’t be found within a year or two? You supply a workable plan and funding for an adequate venue and the NBA BOG almost certainly doesn’t let Clay steal the team.
2) Clay would still have to face Schultz’ lawsuit. You combine this with 1) above and Clay would face a daunting situation.
3) Regarding the wishes of the majority, how would the majority feel if Presti succeeds and builds a title contender? They’ll feel pretty damned supportive if that contender were in Seattle and pretty bitter if that contender is in OKC. How would the majority feel if that contender is in OKC and Seattle has a crappy team with little prospect to improve or has no team at all? Leaders must make unpopular decisions all the time. A strong leader explains his rationale to the electorate and makes an unpopular decision if the situation warrants it. I’ve only supplied part of that rationale here.
4) If Seattle does get another team, it will be at the expense of fans in another city and in collusion with Stern. Some of us find that to be ethically repugnant.
5) It appears that Nickels used fan support to achieve an outcome that many of the fans do not support. At the very least, he owes these people an explanation. I haven’t read it or heard of it.
July 5th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
The legislature will not authorize taxes for an arena expansion without a promise of a team. Stern won’t give Seattle a team with out a solution to the arena. So, how do you get through all those hoops? You can’t. It is a Catch-22.
ACTUALLY, THEY CAN DO WHAT THE NFL DID WITH LA. MAKE EXPANSION PENDING THE BUILDING OF A NEW ARENA. THE NFL GAVE EXPANSION TO LA ON THE CONDITION THAT THEY BUILD A STADIUM. THEY COULDN’T PASS FUNDING FOR IT SO NOW WE HAVE THE HOUSTON TEXANS.
July 5th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Just heard Steven Pyeatt’s KJR interview. I have to say I have ZERO faith in the legislature-some of them have already made comments in the last couple of days that make it clear our building is not a priority. But Steven knows a lot more about it then I do and if he has faith I guess I do too. I just dont want to get my heart broken over all of this all over again.
July 5th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
“If only the mayor had not settled, and Seattle won the lawsuit to keep the team here two years. Then, facing massive losses, plus the cost of relocation, plus the uncertainty of the Schultz suit, Bennett may have surrendered and OKC would have gotten the expansion team. ”
EXACTLY! The Mayor did sell us out. He got money and nothing else. No guarantee of a team for us and no keeping our history just for us. That in my eyes is not a settlement….but I guess its time to move on to the next step.
July 5th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Steve, You say at 12:30 AM…
“We will have our arena expansion. If it doesn’t happen in January we have an ace in the hole to get it done before the deadline.”
You can’t throw that out and not at least give us something more - or at least say - I can’t give you more info. at this time… but this is a huge statement - what can you tell us please….
July 5th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Usually I ignore such absurdities, but I just have to weigh in on this one. This is not about respectful differences of opinion - that is healthy and productive. This is different.
Zendoc, at least you had the guts to come forward. That said, the fact that you felt you even needed an “inquiry to put the rumor to rest” … speaks volumes. There is alot of shit out there… to quote a “Zen” phrase: “The wise ant sifts the sugar from the salt.” No Trust and No Discretion. What a shame.
Steve, I’m glad you found a moment to login and defend yourself - you can do it much more eloquently than any of us can.
Most of us realize that MUCH more goes on behind the scenes than can possibly be relayed - some, because of the sheer magnitude of activity, some, because it is not ripe for sharing at a given point in time.
Steve’s and Brian’s track record since their inception of SOS speaks for itself. Sometimes they are doing SO MUCH that they can’t babysit the message boards for a few days. Most of us realize that information will come as they are able to transmit it to us.
If we don’t have trust in each other within SOS, we have nothing.
July 5th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
I understand your line of thinking “T” but we have 6 months to “educate” those in Olympia who clearly have a problem learning how to lead.
We also have a good way to send them a message. Can we vote out Frank Chopp? No, but there will be some close races and we can make sure we do what we can to kick a few of them to the curb. That sends the message loud and clear.