What would Ray Say?
Posted on Sunday, July 6th, 2008 at 6:25 am by Brian Robinson
For starters I want to point out this article by Jim Brunner. The quotes by Carr and Ceis are consistent with what I have been told.
I wonder whether I would have made the same type of justification had this been a straight cash buyout with no terms or incentives for them to explain to me? Would I haves still bought the whole “this gives us the best chance in the long term” rationale?
Food for thought
I spoke to a number of players in the last couple of days and they are good guys. Suprisingly resigned to this and saying “It was going to happen all along.” I find myself today wondering what Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis would have said this past week had we kept the long term guys on the roster? More than a year ago I had a chance to catch up with Ray and he told me “Its hard to go against an owner when he says he’s trying to stay here, but I won’t play in Oklahoma. The day he actually files for relocation I’ll be helping you guys, on the ground, on a campaign level.”
Two weeks later he was traded.
Rashard once offered to let us use his recently vacated house for a fundraiser before insurance and realtor objections prevented it. Again he faced maddening opposition by the league.
I wonder if these guys would have said something. If they would have stood up or whether they would have put on their professional smiles and simply said they were going to make the best of it. We’ll never know because Clay Bennet, for all the criticism I have given him, took an extremely methodical approach to this move. Any hope we had was always based on the fact that we could get him to change course but he had the money to fight through and was really determined. He traded away our stars and left us with no attachements to this city.
What would Ray and Rashard have said? My guess is they would have said “We will miss Seattle but we’re thrilled with the fans of Oklahoma.” They’re too professional to do otherwise.
Brian Robinson (I think) wrote this.
July 6th, 2008 at 7:11 am
Had Nickels an Ceis fought to the bitter end, even if they had lost the team, the city could have held their heads high. Now they have lost the trust and support of the fan base. The passion for the sport is gone. Bennett took more than the teams history. He took the communities desire to host NBA basketball. Like in other communities where a professional sports team has left, should NBA basketball return to Seattle they will face an uphill battle to win the affection of the local fans.
July 6th, 2008 at 7:32 am
If we are allowed to call our new team the seattle supersonics, we have a fighting chance. but if not, seattle will never find its love for nba basketball again. i sure wont. just why clay and stern wont allow us to simply have our name, no questions, is beyond comprehension for me. its enough to make me say to hell with the nba. for good.
July 6th, 2008 at 7:51 am
I honestly don’t know what to feel right now. I brought an old school early 90s Supes tshirt with me to Europe for my trip that i am on for 2 more months. i wore it a couple times up before d-day. since then, i havent been able to put it on. and even though its the only clean shirt i have at the moment, i still cant put it on. it hurts too much. and when i think about it, i dont even know if i want to keep all my old supes gear back at home. yeah, part of me wants to keep it all as a sort of “never forget” type keepsake. But the other part of me right now wants to burn it all the minute i get home. i cant look at the stuff without hurting and getting angry. f the nba. f david stern. and clay bennett, i will celebrate the day you die. i pretty much know where i stand about supporting basketball in seattle. if we get our “SONICS” back, even if just in name, i can see myself swallowing my hurt feelings and picking up the pieces. But if its some crap like the Seattle Slam or whatever, I could NEVER do it. Hell, the way we’ve all been treated by Stern, really not a single one of us should ever want a thing to do with his league until he is out of commission. I know I have said it a bunch already, but I really am floored at Clay and Stern’s conditions on giving us back our history. Why they couldnt have left us with just that is probably the greatest insult of all in this giant mess. We’ve been kicked while we are at the lowest of lows. I am not so sure I can ever support this league ever again. Regardless what happens on our end. To suppor the NBA is to support David Stern and Clay Bennett. Two people who I hate more than anyone on earth. I WILL NOT watch a single game while we have nothing to do with the league, and thats a promise. i dont give a shit who drafted who or what free agents go where. The nba currently exists less to me than does the wnba. hockey and soccer have passed it up 1,000 times and i only follow them extremely passively. to me right now, the acronyms NBA and OKC are dirty words. and anybody associated with them currently can kiss my ass.
July 6th, 2008 at 7:56 am
I’d always felt the Schultz lawsuit was the best chance for keeping our team or getting a new team.
That’s why I’m chagrined at all the “we’d never get another team” verbiage from the City.
I was all in favor of taking the 2 years and taking our chances, regardless of the Stern rhetoric.
The City caved. Bigtime.
July 6th, 2008 at 8:00 am
FYI here is my understanding of the “shared history” theory:
The NBA does not want the OKC team to have no history whatsoever.
Seattle did not want to give their history up.
The OKC team will take our history for the time being. In the future, if in say 4 years we get an expansion team then the Sonics history for everything EXCEPT that 4 years will revert back to Seattle and OKC will retain the 4 years but also have the right to display historical memorabilia about the time prior to that.
If we get a relocated team then a decision will be made whether to assume that teams history or more likely provide for some type of history exchange with the OKC team whereby they get that teams history and we get ours back, again with the exception of the time that the franchise moved.
Under just about every scenario(assuming we eventually get a team) we get our history back. From their perspective the point is that at no time is there a gap when OKC has no history.
What I don’t get is how easily they think history can just be transfered back and forth. If it matters then it should stay with the home city. If it can be transferred around like a gift certificate then it is pretty worthless IMO. It seems like it cheapens their product to do things this way.
July 6th, 2008 at 8:11 am
They should have to earn and build their history not share ours.that makes absolutely no sense. I hate this whole situation.great post EJ I feel the exact same way.
July 6th, 2008 at 8:24 am
SUPER! SONICS!!
SUPER! SONICS!!
SUPER! SONICS!!
I think the NBA will be back in Seattle within 5 years…
there has to be something going on behind the scenes we don’t know about and we’ll find out soon I believe.
July 6th, 2008 at 8:28 am
“Under just about every scenario(assuming we eventually get a team) we get our history back. From their perspective the point is that at no time is there a gap when OKC has no history.”
Brian, then why have there been reports that we would only get back our history if it’s an expansion team, but not a relocated one? Is that no accurate? If so, then I feel a bit better. But if it is true, then I worry. Again, I would have a real hard time supporting the Seattle Grizzlies or the Seattle Slam. I couldn’t root for those teams without constantly being reminded what happened to us at every point for the rest of time.
July 6th, 2008 at 8:33 am
“if in say 4 years we get an expansion team then the Sonics history for everything EXCEPT that 4 years will revert back to Seattle and OKC will retain the 4 years but also have the right to display historical memorabilia about the time prior to that.”
So what you are saying, is that regardless if we get back our name and history or not, they will always be allowed to have the history and banners? WOW. So in that case, we would be called the seattle supersonics, and both of us would have OUR seattle supersonics banners? How stupid is that?
If I were a scum bag Okie fan, I wouldn’t take any pride in having OUR city’s name and glory displayed in their arena for their OKC Dust Buckets. Who the hell is Jack Sikma or Slick Watts to them?
At least we know that GP will not be going to OKC to have his jersey retired.
SIGH.
July 6th, 2008 at 8:45 am
I’d be willing to bet that on Opening Night at the Ford Center, all our (duplicate, sure) banners and retired jerseys will be hanging from the rafters with our 79 trophy encased in glass on the concourse.
Seattle didn’t even have the stones to hold out for our history. To me, that’s the final insult and the most disgusting part of this whole sordid mess.
July 6th, 2008 at 8:51 am
there has to be something going on behind the scenes we don’t know about and we’ll find out soon I believe.
I thought that something was happening behind the scenes the last few years. NOTHING. Just alot of crap.
What happen to the Ravens when they moved? What history did they use since the Browns history was left in Cleveland. Probably started there history in the first year in Baltimore. Why can’t OKC do that. The hell with the NBA rule that a team has to have some history. NBA is all screwed up.
July 6th, 2008 at 8:51 am
“What would Ray and Rashard have said? My guess is they would have said “We will miss Seattle but we’re thrilled with the fans of Oklahoma.” They’re too professional to do otherwise.”
-Mr Baker
——————————————
So in essence Mr Baker is saying he thinks Allen was lying to his face when he said he would help our cause.
Interesting….I wouldnt think that Allen would sell us out if he said he would campaign. He seems bigger than that. I mean how professionalis it to lie to a fan about helping save their team? You essentially put Ray and Rashard in the same category of Benett when it comes to lip service. Professional?
As usual I’m not getting it.
July 6th, 2008 at 8:54 am
“I’d be willing to bet that on Opening Night at the Ford Center, all our (duplicate, sure) banners and retired jerseys will be hanging from the rafters with our 79 trophy encased in glass on the concourse.”-maoling
————————————————-
Bet? How much?
No way they break the terms of the settlement.
July 6th, 2008 at 8:58 am
Any easy fix if we ever get a franchise or another team moves is to immediately retire all numbers. Then raise banners for Blackburns and Calaboro’s mikes and then raise banners of the storied years. It would be a great celebration.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:01 am
So the settlement didnt guarantee we keep our history but we keep the name? wtf is shared history anyway. What an oxymoron. Its the history of the city of Seattle. How can the NBA think sharing the history of one city to another adds anything to the league? Shared history. What a f^cking joke.
As usual I’m not getting it.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:03 am
I’m not so sure about that, Calabro. He’s already shown no unwillingness to break a lease, break a sales contract, break the hearts of uncountable fans in Seattle….why would breaking terms of a settlement cause him any great distress?
July 6th, 2008 at 9:13 am
The real question is whether GP will be with us on this. When it comes time for his jersey to be retired, let’s hope he refuses OKC. Better yet, if we end up with an expansion franchise, we should retire his jersey on opening night here in Seattle.
Share that.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:16 am
Is Calabro going to OKC?
July 6th, 2008 at 9:19 am
“Is Calabro going to OKC?”
No, he’s said many times he’s not, and he repeated that on KJR after the settlement.
I think Clay and OKC should be embarrassed about displaying Sonics banners, etc. It’s like a guy stealing another guy’s wife, then proudly showing off pictures of the wife with the ex-husband.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:24 am
can you imagine the NHL letting a team who moved replicate the Stanley Cup. The thought of that would have all of Canada and any pedestrian hockey fan rioting! The NBA has just cheapened their product massively. I’m starting to wonder whether the NBA is even worth bringing back. Even though the NHL went through a whole year of labor troubles, at least they don’t cheapen their product like the NBA.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:26 am
Let’s share the Space Needle with OKC. How about the Worlds Fair memorabilia? Why just share pro baketball history.
Only the NBA would have such a term as ’shared hisory’.
Ive had it with all of this catch phrase bullsh*t.
‘unclean hands’
‘poisoned well’
’shared history’
‘good faith effort’…etc. Just to name a few.
Almost every phrase is connected to some kind of lie or deception….Just incredible.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:27 am
“Is Calabro going to OKC? ”
Not by choice if he does. But I believe he isnt. Like Ray, he wont play in OKC.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:31 am
If we get an expansion franchise they will be called the Seattle Supersonics and the uniforms will be green and gold.
If we get a relocated franchise they will be called the Seattle Supersonics and the uniforms will be green and gold.
Gary Payton absolutely will not have his jersey retired anywhere else but Seattle. We’ll hang it from the Space Needle befor OKC rafters for sure.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:38 am
how can you buy history? i just don’t get it.
how much is the revolutionary war worth? I’d like to buy it and move it to Seattle.
What about the roaring 20s? Those would be fun to have here.
Were our memories part of the settlement, too?
July 6th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Calabro said he’s not going to Oklahoma. They dont deserve his greatness anyway. But Matt Pinto the radio guy is going with them.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:50 am
“If we get a relocated franchise they will be called the Seattle Supersonics and the uniforms will be green and gold.”
I’m not so sure about that. I’ve read in more places than one that if a relocated team comes, Clay gets to keep the name and history. That we only get the name and history if it’s an expansion team. I really hope the people reporting that are wrong. But it’s what I’ve read.
As sports fans in Seattle, how proud would you be if Steve Ballmer hijacked the Detroit Red Wings and we displayed all their championship banners? To me, the fact that Clay wants to do that show exactly how small town and 2nd rate of a city OKC really is.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:54 am
Instead of raiding Rick’s Nightclub the FBI should raid Seattle City Hall. That is where the real whores in this community conduct their business. Nickels and Ceis whored themselves and the entire community for $45 million. We will never see the other $30 million. NBA basketball is dead in this town for at least 10 years. If and when professional basketball makes a return to Seattle the team will not be called the Sonics. The new owners will want to distance themselves from the history and memories and will rebrand the team.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:58 am
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2008/07/02/2008030778.pdf
EJ just read it yourself and then worry.
July 6th, 2008 at 11:00 am
This is from a blog on the University of Oregon website. Nice to know we have support down South:
_______________________________________
Why College Sports are Better: The Sonics Situation
I suppose by now you’ve heard about the Sonics leaving Seattle after 41 years. I’ll spare you the details, because they’re easy to find if you’re interested. But the Sonics fans got screwed. ROYALLY.
You’ve heard me talk before about why college sports are better than pro sports. I’ve spoken of the atmosphere and the passion, the connection to your alma mater and the fans, etc. But this is really at the crux of it. No matter what, we always know that the Oregon Ducks will remain the OREGON Ducks. No millionaire owner can come in making demands trying to take them away from us. We, the citizens of the state, own the team, and it will always be ours.
We play basketball games in a crappy, 80 year old dump (and, while I love the dump, its still a dump). Any pro team would’ve been out of that building 30 years ago. We still haven’t broken ground on our new arena, but we know our team isn’t going anywhere. I love my Blazers and Mariners, but I also know they could be taken away at any time (knowing that wouldn’t make it hurt any less, but at least I know the risk). With the Ducks, my passion and loyalty will be rewarded by know that they will always be here.
Also, interestingly enough, while millionaire pro-sports owners try to extort cities to build them shopping malls for their teams to play in, millionaires who could never hope to own their college teams donate millions upon millions of dollars just to see their teams remain competitive.
It’s the best deal in sports.
GO DUCKS!!!
–Dave (addictedtoquack@gmail.com)
July 6th, 2008 at 11:11 am
Anyone think Bennett will drop the ’shared history’ trash if Schultz drops his lawsuit?
July 6th, 2008 at 11:16 am
Or maybe Clay will let us buy it back.
For 45 million.
July 6th, 2008 at 11:17 am
Under just about every scenario(assuming we eventually get a team) we get our history back. From their perspective the point is that at no time is there a gap when OKC has no history.
What I don’t get is how easily they think history can just be transfered back and forth. If it matters then it should stay with the home city. If it can be transferred around like a gift certificate then it is pretty worthless IMO. It seems like it cheapens their product to do things this way.
- History cannot me shared…this whole thing doesn’t make sense. I think I’d go down the route that Bennett is a d!ck before the NBA didn’t want the team to have no history argument.
July 6th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Ray and Rashard were outspoken, they wouldnt just hide like little boys, like Ridnour.
July 6th, 2008 at 11:38 am
Here’s a new advertising campaign for the NBA:
Instead of the NBA cares it will be “NBA shares!” What a joke! I think that is the biggest dagger to the heart in this whole situation. Even if the Mayor agreed to the buy out I would have stood my ground about the history part. We keep all of it. Colors, name, history, banners, trophies, jerseys, etc, etc. OKC will have their own new name and they can build their own history. Since they are not the Sonics that is not their history. How stupid is that?? They are not the OKC Sonics and never will be. The Sonics belong to Seattle forever.
July 6th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Some more slogans:
NBA: where sharing a team’s history happens
NBA: where stealing another team happens
NBA: where buying out a city happens
Ok feel better now.
July 6th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Bennett may use the ’shared history’ provision as leverage against Shultz.
July 6th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
We should start some kind of national campaign saying how pathetic it is that Clay and OKC want to claim Seattles history. Websites, shirts, forums, everything. Make them even more of a national joke. The world will think their pathetic and out embarassment maybe they’ll back off.
July 6th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
call it like calabro, and everybody else, I did not write the thread story, I am guessing that Brian did.
Sometimes the software plant the wrong writer’s name on the articles.
But it does not switch names on comments.
I will sign anything else I do.
The only thing I can really say is that they split the baby. Do yourself a favor and call them franchises, the name will have a gap in time, the franchise is in OKC, nobody will attach 41 years of “Sonics” history with OKC, nobody outside of Clay Bennett’s fantasy world, and even for him the reality of having a team named the Sonics showing up in OKC to kick his smallestmarket teams collective asses will burst that fantasy bubble.
I hope that seeing a Sonics team play a ROAD game in OKC brings back horrible memories of testifying in federal court, and hopefully it make him throwup, because it looked like he was going to hurl on the stand.
Everybody knows what kind of person he is, including his home town that is a few years away from a demand for a new arena, they know what he is.
July 6th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
lastly, the city gained ownership of the name and shared history that they did not “own” before the trial; Bennett gave up cash and the name and history of a franchise that he may not have the rights to.
Something I will call the “resettlement” is not likely to result in less, but more money and/or control of the name and history to be placed into the trust of a local owner. It isn’t Bennett’s to share, therefor it isn’t the cities to accept in settlement. The city has the right to give up its rights to its side of the lease for 45 million dollars, enjoy. It is nearly impossible for a judge to bring the “franchise” back to Seattle, once moved putting humpty dumpty back together is not likely.
Being able to drag the NBA and Bennett back though a much more invasive examiniation my encourage them to completely let go of the sham of an idea of sharing something stolen, it may encourage them to make a list of one city that has the option to have a local owner buy a team at fair market price, more than “wink-wink”, and maybe that other 30 million going toward Key Arena rebuild, that could make the whole Howard Schultz thing go away. Howard has nothing to lose, Bennett could lose an unreal amount of money, the NBA is a party to this disaster, unlike the lease.
I look forward to that settlement to improve this situation.
July 6th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Cl_4dpph52M
the curse
July 6th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
I like the idea of OKC having ur history actually. Just a nice little reminder that the team they stole came from Seattle. I don’t like the idea of it being shared, but if we never got another NBA team ever, I’d prefer that history existing somewhere, even some sh*thole town like OKC. The weird part is the team will have whole new name and brand. Most teams like the Lakers, Jazz and Grizzlies kept their orginal names, which hint at apst in a different city. Is OKC going to have Sonics banners and jerseys hanging in the arena of the OKC Dust Bowlers? If they’re replica’s It seems so. Odd.
July 6th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Mr Baker
Thanx for clarifying. I guess I would just insert the real author’s name in my previous post ,whoever it is.
July 6th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
It would be very surprising if the Grizz were about to be moved out of Memphis. It’s hard to believe that as the principal tenant of their palace, the Fed-Ex arena, they would be leaving any time soon. A local group with the recources was ready to step in and buy the team but they were not allowed to while a minority owner was given the first shot. He didn’t qualify, kind of like Matt Griffin when he was part of the Schultz group so they may revisit the group who was turned down.
Next year I expect talks to begin about an expansion franchise around the time the Schultz case is ready to begin. It has the potential to be as scandalous as the Charlotte situation if not more so. By that time the legislature better have passed the tax for the 75 million. I think they will. Like many others, I believe that a lot of stuff is being worked out behind the scenes while we keep flapping our gums about doom and gloom so it will be more of a relief when the good news does happen.
July 6th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Nickels was at the Storm game last night and the crowd gave him louder boos than they gave the crappy officiating. He laughed at the boos on arena vision but word has it he left the arena in a very bad mood.
July 6th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Ah. I just made sure that DirecTV took NBA League pass off my account so it does not automatically renew next season. I am ONLY playing March Madness on my PS3. Screw NBA Live.
July 6th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Nickels was at the Storm game last night and the crowd gave him louder boos than they gave the crappy officiating. He laughed at the boos on arena vision but word has it he left the arena in a very bad mood.
- Well obviously if our mayor is going to Storm games we deserve to keep them here.
July 6th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
“Nickels was at the Storm game last night and the crowd gave him louder boos than they gave the crappy officiating. He laughed at the boos on arena vision but word has it he left the arena in a very bad mood. ”
Is that a true story? I dont feel bad for him if so. He needs to know the majority of us are very upset about his decision.
July 6th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Is anybody able to answer my question about the new articles that say that seattle only gets the name and history if its an expansion team, not if its a relocated one? So far people on here have said that it isnt the case, but nobody has said why its been reported differently.
July 6th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
The shared history thing is such a joke.
Somewhere in the Ford center will sit a replica trophy that says:
Seattle Supersonics
1979 NBA champions
How ridiculous is that??? Maybe the the Mariners can start displaying Yankess World Series trophies at Safeco, so we can all feel like our city accomplished something.
Ridiculous
Also, it is my understanding that the name, colors and statistics all stay in Seattle regardless of whether we get an expansion or relocated team.
And even though GP says he’ll never have his number retired in OKC, I’ll bet money that Clay is petty enough to retire his number without him attending.
July 6th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Boo Hoo if Nickels left in a foul mood. All he did was try to make nice at a Storm’s game after selling out our oldest franchise, his civic duty and any shred of integrity he might have. Happy to know that they’ve been negotiating this settlement for “weeks” all the while giving us hope with a trial that now clearly was never about a ruling.
Even while several thousand of us stood outside the courthouse they were working behind the scenes to make this go away. What a lovely charade. And to throw another dagger at fans, make public the deal 31 hours before the 4th of July with a spin and a chuckle, then take off for a holiday.
In 40 years of fandom, this is the greasiest move I’ve seen from Seattle officials. There isn’t enough oil in Oklahoma to slick it down.
July 6th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
First I boycotted espn for a while and now I am thinking if rooting for okc is treason. I am starting to shift my hate to Howard and city officals. I might be going insane. Gun barrels are shiny.
July 6th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
From Jayda Evans blog:
“BOOO!: Those pleasantries for Nickels were short lived. He was just shown on the KeyArena jumbotron and fans booed loudly. So bad and uncomfortable was his wave while being booed that the public address announcer didn’t even give the normal introduction. They just cut quickly to the Storm logo. Ouch! ”
The Seattle Times today only said:
“If Seattle lands a team through relocation of an existing franchise, most likely the Oklahoma City team will retain sole possession of the Sonics history.”
Final negotiations on the terms of the history sharing are to be worked out August 1st.
July 6th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
EJ, the reason you’re hearing that is because the settlement states “NEW Seattle team.” People are interpreting that as meaning an expansion team and not a relocation. If that’s the actual case or not, I have no idea. I heard the final details are supposed to be worked out August 1st.
July 6th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Rooting for OK city would be treason. I love Durant, but I can’t watch him in that traitor’s new uniform with OK City on it. Man, that’s going to be painful.
July 6th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
this is all terrible, and we still do not have an arena solution.
write your elected official and the person that may be running against that official one email (where possible, otherwise note it), and write your expectation that they work to find a positive solution that provides for an arena solution. Contacting people outside of Seattle, but within Washington State, ask them to allow Seattle to tax themselves, and in return provide 20 million dollars in sales tax revenue, the NBA in this arrangement is a net positive revenue generator for the state general fund, do they want more money or not?
The Kings/NBA/California Cal Expo 180 day negotiations are suppose to produce an arena that seats 17 to 20 thousand people, this has not been about the number of seats, but as is in Cal Expo, it is planting that event within a revenue generating footprint.
In another effort, let’s hope Schultz can remove Bennett’s benefit of our history.
July 6th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Jack Daniels is my starting PF this weekend. Let it all be a bad dream.
July 6th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
So they havent even worked out the details on the history? Thats not done until Aug 1 so Im prepared to be hurt again that day. Also in the article in the paper today it says that Bennett still owns our name and colors but he “agreed not to use them.” We all know he doesnt care about breaking promises or leases so why would he keep his word on this? The article also says the city had to fight hard to keep the memorbilia and that Clay didnt want to give that up. I just keep getting more upset.
July 6th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
Bennett is the lowest of the low. Bad enough to move the team to OKC but the worst is to try and take the history with you. For your information Clay Clay you can’t buy history. Make your own. And thanks to the Mayor for even agreeing to any of this. That is where I would have put my foot down. But instead he got intimidated.
July 6th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
sorry, the thread was stuffed full of ads, and changed to draft, it is fixed.
July 6th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
They young or old people really gangster in City or State
for fan team nba old age long in 90’s and 2000-2008
people can’t fight gangster very danger get death.
Steven Pyeatt no ripped not tell Citiezend World for
forgien.
July 6th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
call it like calabro, and everybody else, I did not write the thread story, I am guessing that Brian did.
Oh brother, not again. The thing that I find odd about Brian’s habitual subtle digs at Ray is the way he portrays being a true professional as a negative.
July 6th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
So we bought Louisiana from France . . . we bought Alaska from Russia . . . so do we get to include the history of France and Russia in US history? Do we get to claim Napolean and Catherine the Great as one of ours? (By the way, I actually am in her family lineage . . . my only claim to fame. LOL!)
Only someone with an inferiority complex would want to steal another city’s history. Maybe he knows that the history of a team in OKC will never have any history, like Memphis, so he might as well steal another city’s history.
July 6th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
people can’t fight gangster very danger get death.
I’m sure Junshan would agree.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Patches as 7:11 - Great word
July 6th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
“They are how we thought they we(liars,thieves)………WE LET THEM OFF THE HOOK”!!!!!!!!!
Denny Green
July 6th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
WHO=how we=were SORRY for the typos
July 6th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
The team history has simply been handled in a stupid way IMO… Like evrything else.
It shoud have been completly simple…
All Sonic name & history etc. stays in Seattle forever - no conditions. This is the least Stern & Clay could do. so simple and reasonable to honor 41 years.
Should have been a no brainer.
OKC Team - They start a whole new team history - fresh start for them.
What is so hard about that?
The city should have demanded this - period - or walked from the deal. But the city was acting as cowards - no spine - no wisdom - totally intimidated - no loyalty to Sonic fans - Nickels clueless having been to 2-3 games in his life.
I share alot of the sentiments of EJ at the top of this thread.
This is like the OKC guys & stern having already kicked Seattle in the face - knocked us down - mugged us - then as they walk away the stirp us naked and laugh all the way to OKC.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
So the history issue gets worked out Aug 1?
Any chance Schultz will come in, step up, and drop his lawsuit if Bennett unequivocally relinquishes all rights to the Sonics’ name, history, colors, players, championships, and statistics?
Now’s the time to do something productive, Howard.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
Maoling says…
“Seattle didn’t even have the stones to hold out for our history. To me, that’s the final insult and the most disgusting part of this whole sordid mess.”
Good word IMO
July 6th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Calabro is not going to OKC
The Glove will never support his jersey being retired in OKC - No way.
If Nickels had 10% of the Stones that GP has we would be buying our tickets for Sonics game in the key for the 08/09 season right now. Also, the big topic on this web site would be this…
How long it might take for the Schultz case to make Stern & NBA owners & Clay sweat enough for them to cave in and sell.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
NBA=WWE says above…
“I’m starting to wonder whether the NBA is even worth bringing back.”
You are not alone. and this is central to the stupidity of Nickels in caving in. Understimating the damage this does not only to the potential of the NBA bringing a new team to Seattle - but to the desire level here in seattle for a new team.
Nickels is just toally clueless and IMO to rationalize this recent settle ment as a good deal because it gives us a better chance to get a team later is foolish. This line of thinking goes against everything SOS has been saying all along - you have to keep the current team here no matter what as long as you can because…
1. As long as the team is here there is more hope they can stay
2. once they leave it is always harder to get a new team to come.
3. If they leave the desite level for another NBA team will take a severe beating.
BR & Steve have consistently said we need to have the city honor the lease - period - no matter what - unless there was an NBA promise for continuous presence of NBA hoops. And they were right.
There is NOTHING about the recent settlement that changes the wisdom of this position.
But Nickels and the city council I think don’t really care about having an NBA team in Seattle - it would be nice - but not really important and not as important as the 45 million. They wanted to pay off the Key arena debt more than anything.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
#3 above should say “Desire level…”
July 6th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
i have to disagree with JJ on one point. THere is no way that Clay is going to sell. He never was going to and he never will for better or worse. As we all know he is one subborn man and he just wanted to bring bball to OKC. He did not care how much and he didnt care at what costs. Unless shultz wins his case we need to forget about these sonics and instead focus on how we are going to get the next sonics.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
I just don’t want Bennett to be able to take the name, numbers, colors and history. How horrible.
July 6th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
FWIW, the OKC sports writers don’t want any part of shared history. Bennett is doing this as a bargaining chip–or just because he is a giant asshole.
http://newsok.com/article/3266507
July 6th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
Paul… at 9:42… I know many share your perspective that Clay would never sell and the reality is we will never know - we are spectulating… But I think while he never would WANT to sell…. he indeed might have and I think it more likely than not he would have if we had stuck to our guns on the lease case & won it.
Why?
1. Remember how much Posturing BS always flied around a court case. Nickels said he would never settle too. Clay of course needs to talk as tough as possible - all part of trying to intimidate Seattle and give himself the best postion to get what he wants - a financial buyout of the lease. His words about never selling IMO were meaningless and predicitable.
2. The question then is… was he bluffing? My opinion is the only way to find out is to go all in and find out - push him to the wall.
3. The biggest reason I believe he would have sold is the FEAR that Howard’s case would bring to Stern and other NBA owners. they simply could not risk the possibility to losing that case. I think because of this they would have pressured clay to sell and let him know there would not be approval for his move next time around.
And - would Clay & Co. want to continue to lose millions… for 1-2 years - knowing they might then lose the team anyway to Howard’s case?
4. It is possible Clay’s co-owners might have gotten tired of the whole thing and broken ranks with him.
Again… We both speculate - But I believe the chances were much better than 50/50 that clay would have been forced to sell because of the realities of the Schultz case in combination with the other factors involved in having to paly out the lease.
Again, His tough talk about never selling means nothing to me - totally predicatable considering his agenda and the context of the court case.
Clay came in and played hardball - played to win - played tough - and he got what he wanted. Nickels was outmatched but Caly & stern. Totally intimidated and clueless.
Obviously I would have taken my chances to NOT take the 45 million and opted to try for the win in the lease case and then see how things developed. Heck - go for the lease case win and make him sweat some more and you can always sell it out later if you want.
And even if the lease case goes PBC’s way… with no settlement Howard could do an injunction and there was still a jury case for finacial damages - costs more TIME for Clay to be able to pull off a move this summer. Bickels was impatient - he had better cards but he folded because he got worked by a tougher guy.
For many reasons - the better risk for Nickels would have been to stick to his guns and tried for the win in the lease case and then moved on from there.
1 more item - if the word about Stern threatening Nickels that if he did not cooporate then the NBA would not look favorably towards giving Seattle a team in the future…. But if he would take this settle ment the NBA would be favorable to seattle etc. etc…… that is so stupid as well as insulting I would have totally ignored it. Stern is gone in a few years - seattle is a big market - the NBA wants $$$$ more than anything - if you get intimidated by that from a guy like stern in that situation…. there is simply no hope.
July 6th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
Also… for anyone who read my long post above….
I have no idea if Howard’s case it could actually bring the Sonics team back to Seattle or not in a year or 2 if he wins …. but if Howard takes his case the distance - then IMO - the NBA will be sweating bullets as it heads to trail. This would have HUGE downside impact for Stern and the whole league if a federal court rules that there was fraud in a 350 million dollar NBA franchise sale. Huge scandal. Huge risk. Huge problem for the league if they lose control of one of theri teams to a court ordered trust of any kind.
July 6th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
Agreed JJ
And it would have been much better for the Schultz case to be heard while the Sonics were HERE, playing their “lame duck” seasons.
July 6th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
The Schultz case if won would create some huge problems. Can you image a team that has moved, been re-branded, played an entire season in OKC only to have the ownership resended and held in trust? OKC would be in the position of the city of Seattle filing lawsuits to hold the team to its lease. What a wonderful mess that would be! Maybe the NBA would then just retract the OKC/Seattle/Cityless Team along with Memphis or NO. Haha, part me just wants the NBA to crash and burn. Let Soccer/Football become the 4th major sport its bound to become.
July 6th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Also… Stern would have and still will sweat Howard’s case big-time in part becasue if Howard wins it will Mark Stern’s legacy.
Stern’s legacy will be marked as the guy who manipulated and supported a stupid franchise move and sale that involved fraud.
Sterns legacy would be “Fraud” in the same way that Barry bonds is “Steroids”
And everyone ask yourself this question: Did Clay in fact commit fraud? is he in fact guilty of this crime?
I say yes - Most on this site would agree.
I know this does not guarrentee anything in terms of unpredicatble court cases - but it is at the heart of what makes Clay vulnerable. He is in fact a fraud - just a question of if it can be proven.
But if found guilty - yikes - bad news for stern - for the league - and Seasontixsince 69 is right… if Howard wins and the judge says it is to complicated to force a move back - everyone who supports SOS will curse Nickels forever as the guy who lost our team because if they were still here they would for sure have stayed in that situation.
But again, IMO, and I know everyone is speculating, If Nickel’s had not caved and won the lease suit or gotten an injunction from Howard if PBC won the lease suit… Clay would have been forced to sell by the combination of circumstances and pressures I outlined above.
July 6th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
Clays tough talk during the trial should have been ignored. It was totally predicatable and self-serving to his agenda.
Do we really want to say we should believe Clay when he talks with conviction about not selling the team?
I see no reason to believe or trust anything that comes out of his mouth - whether he is saying…
“I’m a man possessed to keep this team in seattle”
OR
“I’m a man possessed to not sell this team.”
Nickels should have Considered the source - considered the context -considered the agenda - and then given Clay the middle finger to this settlement offer.
July 6th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
There’s no sense in revisionist history if Schultz wins his case. Part of me wants nothing to do with the NBA anymore, and really all I want is for Bennett and Stern to be shamed. I want Bennett to be destroyed and I want Stern to go down with him. If I could have that I think I would happily never have another NBA team in Seattle. I want Bennett and Sterns complete and utter destruction.
July 6th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
Actually, I think the threat of Stern taking the stand would have forced a) an immediate expansion franchise for Seattle or b) the Supes here and an immediate expansion francise for Oklahoma City. That’s when the “negotiation” should have taken place.
Unfortunately, the City choked.
Missed an 18 inch putt that would have won the U.S. Open.
Air balled a free throw that would have won the NBA Finals.
July 6th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
rmdc at 9:08- that quote is a perfect fit
July 7th, 2008 at 12:32 am
No matter where Sonics plays will not affect Schultz’s lawsuit. Because they sued for the sale to be rescind, which gives us good chance that Sonics will return to Seattle.
Yes, an injunction will be wise but it would be a sweet revenge for Clay to be screwed by Seattle and OKC. OKC city can not sue Seattle or new owner, supposedly to be Ballmer group, because Clay Bennett will be found guilty for fraud and collusion along with David Stern.
The liability will fall on Clay Bennett for lying to OKC officials. That is the right thing that should happen with the law and justice. But my big question would the $$ or promise from Bennett and Stern buy out Schultz? I hope Schultz will say no all the way. Because it has nothing to do with the city at all. If Stern says no to city because of Schultz’s lawsuit that caused a lot of bad media. Stern will be exposed somehow. That is my belief that NBA will have to cave in and tell Bennett to settle with Schultz in order to return the Sonics to Seattle. Then NBA will give Bennett the expansion team or relocate one of other teams.
If my version is not going to happen. Then there is something wrong with our law and justice for rich people to get away. No money shall buy out the justice.
July 7th, 2008 at 2:06 am
Myk, T., and Patrick & others,
I was at the Storm game on Saturday night and also was sitting just about 8 seats away from Mayor Nickels and his party, which consisted of his wife, Tim Ceiss, & Mrs. Ceiss presumably. I noticed him sitting to our right & pointed him out to several others in the crowd - this was before the announcement. I said he probably decided to come to the Storm game to see what this Basketball thing was all about and why people would be so passionate about a game or he thought that he better be seen at some Storm games at least since he got his ass kicked for going to 2 Sonics games in 10 years.
When they made the announcement of his presence and the Jumbotron flashed to the Mayor, he raised his hand to acknowledge the recognition and the cheers that would be coming and the boos came quickly and built up much louder - the Mayor’s cheeks turned red and he laughed in a rather embarrassed manner & pulled his hand down. As they pulled the camera off him, his wife patted him on the head. I think that he really thought that he was going to get cheered for pulling off this great deal with PBC, or just for being the Mayor. He also may have thought these are Storm fans - they don’t really care about the Sonics, right?
Apparently that was a bad assumption. I know lots of Storm fans who care about the Sonics, many (like myself) who have Season Tickets for both teams - or at least go to games of both teams. Many others who now go to Storm games instead of Sonics games because they had to choose something that would fit into their budget, yet they still like the Sonics. Many young families just want good family entertainment at a reasonable price, and as anyone knows who has been to Storm games - they are much more Kid-friendly than Sonics games, yet the families are often still Sonics fans (at least the dads). I could go on and on. Apparently an awful lot of people there did not want to lose the Sonics. Either that or they were just taking this opportunity to boo the Mayor for other reasons, but I don’t think so.
The Mayor sat in his seat throughout halftime and I debated about whether or not to go over and talk to him about the Sonics. A couple other people said they were going to go over and tell him what they thought, but they didn’t and the lady sitting to my right said “I’m surprised that no one is taking advantage of this opportunity to go talk to the Mayor since he’s vitually a captive audience right now.” Well that did it for me. I said “Excuse me, I’m going to go talk to the Mayor.” So I walked over to his row across the aisle and leaned over to talk with him and waited for him to finish talking to Tim Ceiss.
As soon as his head turned back to the court, I introduced myself, and started telling him how much I and a lot of other people really wanted to see Judge Pechman’s decision in this case and were extremely disappointed that he did not uphold the Specific Performance. He said that they discussed it and decided even if they won [really - especially if they won], they had no guarantee of getting any money out of PBC, and they were afraid that the City would be left with 2 years of the Sonics and nothing to show for it afterwards. I said that I thought that if they had just waited for the decision & won, that Clay would have become more desperate as time went on, and at the very least, would have upped his offer to the City.
The Mayor did not believe that. He believed what Clay told him - that he would just hunker down for 2 years in Seattle (well, not Clay himself) and then leave with the Sonics name and the colors, the logo, the history, etc. and no money for the Mayor to pay off the arena. Also the Mayor was told by David Stern that Seattle would never see the NBA again if he didn’t play ball [actually, I'm paraphrasing now - he never used those words, but that was the gist of it]. So, basically, the City lost their confidence in this game, and they were intimidated by one tough Cowboy and the Master of Little-Man Intimidation, David Stern.
His wife returned to her seat just then and I finished by saying that I was with Save Our Sonics and SonicsCentral.com and that there were a lot of very depressed Sonics Fans around, even some who are now suicidal, and a lot who have been crying since Wednesday. He nodded. I said that we really needed some time to say goodbye to OUR SONICS and we didn’t get it. I suggested that it would be a good idea to have some kind of a tribute to the Sonics and the Sonics’ fans at a future Storm game and have some players or ex-players come in for a halftime, or pre-game, or post-game show. We could pack the KEY again for a tribute to the Sonics. We could even do it more than once.
I told him that I would talk to the Storm about a Sonics tribute. The City could even hold a goodbye Sonics rally outside of a Storm game, but I think that the setting at Key Arena where you could also cheer for the Sonics’ sister team would probably be more fitting and more emotional and we could rock the Key Arena again. That was about it for the Mayor. He and his wife slipped out with about 5+ minutes to play in the game in which the Storm kicked butt (Minnesota’s - by 25 points). They actually headed down into the locker room area - maybe to talk to the players and tell them how much they appreciated basketball.
Tim Ceiss and his wife stayed pretty much until the end. Getting up and wlaking up to the exit with less than a minute to play. I never spoke with the Deputy Mayor. Anyway, it was interesting. I don’t know if anyone else on this blog was there, although I think that one person said he was going to be. If not, you missed a great game (and the Storm are now 10-1 at home), and a chance to see the Mayor, Boo the Mayor, or even talk with the Mayor! See what you guys are missing out on? Now that he knows that he’s going to get booed (I’m sure it didn’t make him happy), he may not come to another Storm game (and probably wouldn’t have any way).
July 7th, 2008 at 2:32 am
My guess is when the Schultz case goes to trial, the talk of expansion begins from Stern. It can’t get any worse for us but it sure can get a lot worse for them. Let’s see what happens when the shoe is on the other foot.
I thought that letter to the editor in the paper today from someone in Charlotte was funny. We’re grieving over losing our team and they can’t give theirs away. They turned down the vote on their new stadium and the city council levied the taxes to pay for it anyway so they were voted out of office LOL.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:21 am
I agree with JJ’s point that City gave way too much credit to the “Bennett will never sell” and “NBA will blackball Seattle if we win the lease court case” arguments. This Clayton “Sweet Flip” Bennett we are talking about? What if we won the lease case and in Q1′09 the state legislature passed the public funding initiative? Ballmer standing there ready to buy… Howard’s case progressing or about to start… and Clay has to re-apply to BOG to move? Talk about the leverage we would have had!!! Plus one could make the argument that if we are going to lose our team, let’s do it in a principled way, and to me, the principled way to follow through on the lease case (and then Howard’s case). Some call it “scorched earth”, but weren’t we the ones on the high road? Another point, even if we had ultimately lost the team in 2010, that is still two more years to enjoy our team. Two fewer than we may end up with now (with concrete guarantee).
I think the City’s primary goal was getting the $45M… the “hope certificate” type concessions/incentives that were built into the settlement where put in to placate the 1,000’s on the steps of the courthouse… and just in case private/public momentum continues and somehow a deal is put together to bring the NBA back.
Now, all that said, I think what I am hearing from SOS leadership is a call to retain our optimism and to continue to fight (i.e. to return NBA to Seattle)…. to grasp onto whatever sliver of hope we have been left with. And maybe that makes sense. But it is very difficult to swallow my disgust with our elected’s and difficult to return to the high road.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:00 am
Seattle SuperSonics is a trademarked name, isn’t it? PBC owns the trademark, right? If you get a new team, use the name and let PBC embarrass itself with a lawsuit.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:03 am
high road?what high road.dont you people ever wise up. cant you understand that the MAJORITY of people in this state dont want and never will want to fund a single issue sports arena that gives to billionaires.especially when there are so many more important(to the MAJORITY) issues. we the fans are a very small minority of people .its a no brainer nichols did what he had to do.he made money for the city and kept the door open to the nba.and when they come back we’ll all be at the game,trust me,just wiser,hopefully.move on,the only hope is a multi issue renovation of the seattle center that includes arts education and culture.then and only then will the politicians vote for it.then and only then will they not lose their jobs.if you want to do anything then work for that.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:13 am
The same nonsense is going on as last time - everyone thinks they are an attorney and “know” what is going to happen with the Schultz case.
Let’s not forget that this is the longest of long-shots. To reverse the sale a judge would basically want to “stick-it” to Clay Bennet. All we have are a few emails - there just isn’t enough evidence for that. Basically the punishment would not suit hte crime. If Schultz does win, then monetary damages are about it. Not that it would be nice to screw Bennett some more, but ultimately the City screwed us all and it is over.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:58 am
Is there any common sense reason why Bennett would even want the hisory of Seattle?
The only thing I can logically come up with is that even a tiny piece of Seattle history could help shine up the sh*thole of OKC.
OKC-attle…unbeleivable.
He is in a no win situation with our history. Any little piece he chooses to use will do nothing but remind everyone watching, outside of OKC-attle, that he lied his ass off and Stern let the ball roll.
Could there possibly be ia bigger idiot on the face of the earth with that much money? Oh yeah. Ken Lay, Aubrey Mclendon. I forgot.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Doesnt there seem to be a high concentration of these manipulative predatory capitalists down in the Texas/OK area where Big Oil money flows? It shows what happens when you mix money with inbreeding. Imagine every Springer guest as billionaire. Thats how much sense all of this shared history sh*t makes.
“Ma, I’m gonna go buy me a Space Needle tday!”
July 7th, 2008 at 9:14 am
The same nonsense is going on as last time - everyone thinks they are an attorney and “know” what is going to happen with the Schultz case.
Let’s not forget that this is the longest of long-shots. To reverse the sale a judge would basically want to “stick-it” to Clay Bennet. All we have are a few emails - there just isn’t enough evidence for that. Basically the punishment would not suit hte crime. If Schultz does win, then monetary damages are about it. Not that it would be nice to screw Bennett some more, but ultimately the City screwed us all and it is over.
You do realize how hypocritical that post is, don’t you?
I’ll still stick with Lester Munsons take on it instead of yours.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:25 am
I’ve got the perfect piece of history for Bennett.
How about that old broke down aluminum ferry that was on Lake Union. It looks like a giant Airstream Trailer. Especially if it was on land. The People of OKC would marvel at such a huge trailer. They could plant it right outside of Ford Center.
I wish I were an artist and could do a rendering of Ford Center with the Space Needle, a ferry boat and Squatch as part of the landscape…Somebody want to give it a go and post it for downloading?
July 7th, 2008 at 9:31 am
Honestly, I think the hatred of the citizens and fans in OKC is a little misplaced. They wanted something… a businessman from their city brought it to them.
Honestly though… the whole “inbred” “redneck” etc thing is getting really old.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:34 am
Not to stir up political debate as I don’t support making this a (D)vs(R) thing but I though you all might want to know what Dino emailed back in responcs to this link I gave him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-JFiD5_D1I
From Dino Rossi,
thanks for your email. I was extremely disappointed with the
outcome of the court case and settlement. I was on the parade route in 1979 when the Sonics won the world championship, and I do not want to see the NBA leave Seattle. It is difficult to know what chance of success efforts to keep the NBA here will have at this point. I hope that chance still exists.
During this year’s legislative session, I supported the effort by local investors to renovate key arena through a public-private partnership. Not only would this plan have provided incentive to keep the Sonics in Seattle, but thanks to the $150 million contribution from private investors, it made economic sense. I publicly encouraged the governor to push for this proposal, but she did not act. This was a failure of leadership.
Keeping NBA basketball in Seattle will require creative thinking and courageous leadership on behalf of elected officials. As governor, I will actively support efforts to make this happen. I hope this clarifies my position on this issue, and I would appreciate your support in November.
Sincerely,
Dino
Take it with a grain of Salt… I am still waiting back to hear from Chris “we have all been lied to today ” Gergorie.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:56 am
You guys are giving too much credit to Nickels and the city by saying they actually were worried that Clay would not sell and that Stern would be mad and not consider bringing the NBA back here. I think thety are using this as an out. They wanted the settlement and the money from the get go. They only took the thing to trial to posture and put on a show due to the pressure of Brian/Steve and the rest of the wonderful SOS people. It was not fear it was Greed and personal agenda. They paid off the bonds and will have some money to do a cheap fixer up on the Seattle Center grounds.
Even if Schultz won his lawsuit, no judge will order the team back to Seattle. I also think Schultz will cave soon. Clay is using this stupid “shared history” and duplicate banner crap as a way to give Schultz an out. Schultz will say..Clay gave up all the Sonics history, name, colors etc and the NBA promised a team sometime if I would drop my suit…He makes his attempt to save face and saves the money of going to trial.
This entire process has been so transparent and full of acting…Still to be determined which ass is up for the academy award
July 7th, 2008 at 9:56 am
So what is going to happen to the 45 million? I think its robbery by our own leaders. They need 30 million to pay off the bond, which leaves 15 million. Then if the city is unmotivated to get the NBA, they pocket another 30 million. I want that money to go into a trust to help solve issues witht he Key and the Center, not to fill the cofers. I have not seen any commitment from our leaders on this topic. Also, what about some financial relief for the biz owners around the Key. Lastly, another topic not talked about is Key Bank pulling the naming rights without a major tennant. More money lost.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:58 am
Sorry See J
I guess I woke up on the wrong side of the bed and wanted to vent a little. I promise no more inbred stuff. And I have absolutely no hatred for the common folk of OKC. I dont hate. My jabs are only aimed at Bennett and PBC for their stupid arrogance. I have a fondness for history and tradition and the ’shared history’ thing has me a little rattled I guess.
July 7th, 2008 at 9:59 am
Call Calabro…. Yes - Clay is an idiot but he is smarter than our mayor.
Benjamin… Agree with the sentiment at the end of your post above. The corruption of Stern & the NBA is so bad I don’t kow that I want any part of it anymore. I’ll take some time but I have no desire to jump on the “Let’s work to get a new arena to please the NBA” effort. It’s not a matter of being tired - it is a matter of not sure I want to be part of anything with the NBA anymore.
BR said about a month ago that if the city were to do a financial settlement on the lease it would represent gutless “Blood Money” taken. I agree - and this is what happened.
So do I want to be partnering with Nickels and stern now?
And do I want to commit my efforts to a vision that openly hopes for the most likley desired result being Seattle takes another cities NBA team and puts another fan base through something similar to our recent experience?
I’m not there.
July 7th, 2008 at 10:12 am
“D”… You are right - the city & nickels wanted the 45 million more than anything else. We agree that the claims by clay to not sell ever & Stern to hold it agaisnt seattle if they held Clay to the lease are stupid and should have been ignored.
However, I think the city took it to trial to leverage for the highest possible amount. Money was the motivator for taking it to trial. Period. I do not think they cared one bit about SOS & our efforts. They lied to Brian & Steve all along. SOS & Sonic fans were irrelevant to Nickels and the city other than using us to leverage more pressure on Clay to pay more.
They took what Brian R. called the “Blood Money” and now Nickels asks for our trust and efforts.
July 7th, 2008 at 10:16 am
Call Calabro: It’s the Kalakala. It’s sitting at a dock in Tacoma. It sure looks like a beat-up old Airstream. Maybe a little too nice for an OK trailer park…
http://www.kalakala.org/
July 7th, 2008 at 10:17 am
2nd Worst Basketball experience I ever had this weekend was watching the signings of the draft picks. What should have been a excitement and hopefull speculation. Was instead a kick in the stomach. For 40 yrs I have been excited about this process and the hopes of the next season. I was a proponent of fighting to the death for what was ours. I have no doubt I would have preferred to watch the next 2 yrs and let them go with the small moral victory it would have provided. But to go into Wednesday last week confident we would have a team here for at least one more season and to have that taken away without a fight. Is killling me.
If Stern wanted to take his ball and go home and never play with us again because we did not give him ours it would be fine. Watching him and Bennettt Squirm through the Schulz case after losing to the city win or lose with all the negatives would have been worth it. But instead we are left with nothing but the hope to steal from others. Nickels wants us to trade places with the PBC and says that is the best hope for OUR Future. That to me is no future at all and we already had that if we had fought on and made Stern Mad.
July 7th, 2008 at 10:20 am
Deepprince says…
“But instead we are left with nothing but the hope to steal from others. Nickels wants us to trade places with the PBC and says that is the best hope for OUR Future. That to me is no future at all”
Agree.
July 7th, 2008 at 10:26 am
JJ- I for one was hopefully optimistic at first that it was not about the money..especially after going through with the entire trial…not just a day or so..
My feelings on the Mayor asking for help..he can shove it. He just wants SOS to be the scapegoat when the legislators don’t approve the 75 Million..which the city does not want so they can have their 30 Million for another useless piece of art or bum toilet…I caution everyone not to invest thier emotions too much..We learned already that the Mayor cannot be trusted and has his own goals and issues…remember he has been to 2 games in 10 years.
July 7th, 2008 at 10:27 am
My gut feeling is that Schultz is in it for the extra money. I think he will win, but there is a slim chance that the judgment will include the team coming back.
If he is really in it to sell to an honest owner with the intent of keeping the team in Seattle, do you think they can bring up examples of teams being displaced and going back to their original location i.e. - NO Saints to San Antonio ; NO Hornets to OKC and San Diego Chargers to AZ for a game due to fires.
I know they are different because there was no sale, but it does show history that teams have moved and come back
July 7th, 2008 at 10:28 am
I agree with D. I predict Nickels will play the game a little longer by paying lip service to another shot at the legislature. But after receiving luke-warm interest to the idea, he’ll move on to his real goal of turning Seattle Center into a park/condo development.
July 7th, 2008 at 11:11 am
So basically not many of you think what is being seen to date is worth any support for any solution to an arena. I understand why, and maybe it is just too early. I do understand your skepticism. I agree with a lot of it. Unfortunately, if anything is going to be done, it needs to be done soon.
Honestly, the only true solution that I can see is a privately paid arena. It would take revenue out of the pockets of the city, but frankly they did it to themselves.
July 7th, 2008 at 11:23 am
This site keeps sucking posts into a cyberspace blackhole. Let me try this one again.
I’m a bit skeptical about the let’s not anger David Stern arguement. He’s 65 years old. Stern’s term ends in 2010. He’s likely to retire then.
July 7th, 2008 at 11:44 am
“I agree with D. I predict Nickels will play the game a little longer by paying lip service to another shot at the legislature. But after receiving luke-warm interest to the idea, he’ll move on to his real goal of turning Seattle Center into a park/condo development. ”
Agreed, the idea that public financing of this will ever occur under the current powers is a pipe dream IMO. Gov’t at every level in this saga has been long on promises and short on results.
July 7th, 2008 at 11:45 am
“Honestly, the only true solution that I can see is a privately paid arena. It would take revenue out of the pockets of the city, but frankly they did it to themselves. ”
Yup and double yup.
July 7th, 2008 at 11:52 am
D, if they don’t approve the renovation, they don’t get the 30 million
July 7th, 2008 at 11:59 am
I’m gonna get crucified for posting this, but for anyone wanting to watch Sonics picks Russell Westbrook and D.J. White, the Orlando Magic website has the summer league game streaming starting in a few minutes.
July 7th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Anytime you can get a 300 million dollar rebuild for 150 million, with none of it coming from general fund, and you can set a precedent with the state of collecting and spending in the City of Seattle and not have Seattle revenue spread around to people that are actively working against you, you jump on it.
I do not think he gives a ratsass about basketball, he is the mayor of the largest city in the state, that generates a LOT of revenue, and is Peter in the robbing Peter to pay Paul. He has to ask the Governor and the King County Executive if he can invest money to make money within his city. They mayor has bigger fish to fry, the Seattle Center site, the viaduct, his end of 520 bridge, the state of UW within his boarders. If he can not grasp control of something within his own city, owned by his own city, he stands little chance of flexing any muscle when facing bigger issues.
July 7th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
GOD no.
I cannot take this.
watching Westbrook tearing ish up will be the ultimate dagger
July 7th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Stern isn’t going to accept a privately funded arena because it limits his blackmail ability.
Anyone read that Ron Judd article? I think he just might be the “Apostle” on the Soundoffs. Or the banned “Dubya”.
July 7th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Westbrook is playing well. Leading scorer so far for OKC. 8pts.
July 7th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
“I think he just might be the “Apostle” on the Soundoffs. Or the banned “Dubya”.”
I’m pretty sure Apostle and Dubya are one and the same. Both live on Queen Anne Hill. Both had similar opinions about the Sonics and transportation issues.
Apostle first appeared right after Dubya was banned.
July 7th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
Here is my problem. We are going to get a relo or an expansion…more likely the relo. Either way, we are going to be garbage for 3-5 years AFTER getting the team. Which mean we won’t even see good basketball for another 10 years.
The only thing that changes that is if we get the Hornets, but I refuse to steal a team. And I want KD back.
July 7th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
I think the thing that sucks most about this is the little guy gets hosed again. Tis was a chance for the regular people to have a say in how things get done, and a chance to stick it to big business. But our leaders didn’t lets us have a say, are we were left impotent to do anything about it. I am sad to see this team go, and it tears me apart thinking Bennet and Stern get their way with a check, once again proving money conquers all. No one takes into consideration the people affected by the greed and ego. Bennett took it personal, as did Stern, and both have the ability to do whatever they want whenever they want. And watching our city leaders take away the one chance we had to stick it to the NBA and Bennett and they cave. Its just another slap in the face, piss on you moment brought to you by corporate America. And all on the 4th of July.
July 7th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
SonicScott Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Westbrook is playing well. Leading scorer so far for OKC. 8pts.
Who gives a crap about this? Go post this on the OKC board.
July 7th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
KBA,
In the slim chance that Schultz wins his suit and the Sonics come back to Seattle, I’d like to know the type of players Westbrook and D.J. White are gonna be. Regardless of how crappy this situation is, I’m a basketball fan first and foremost, and I still have an attachment to this team.
July 7th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
After 5 days of depression,hate,denial, and outraged anger, I am starting to look at a couple of different options. Now don’t get me wrong here, all these options are not what I want or am even sure I could support and I do know I cant support any option like I did the Supes of the last 41 years, but these options all have some intrigue to them.
Option 1: Balmer buys the Grizzlies. I agree with everyone about not stealing another cities team, but it is totally different than our situation. They don’t have the 41 years and its not an origional team. They came from Vancouver, wich brings me to my next point. If we have to take another team then the best option to me is the old Vancouver team coming back to the Northwest. And we start our franchise off with O.J. Mayo and Rudy Gay and future draft picks. And they would be called the SEATTLE SUPERSONICS.
Option 2:Start rooting for the Trailblazers. They have always been my 2nd favorite team. I hated them when they played the Supes, but rooted for them against anybody else. I live on the coast of Washington and Seattle and Portland are about the same distance from my house and actually I could get to Portland faster than I could get to Seattle. They are owned by a Seattle guy. The coach is Mr. Sonic. Brandon Roy is a Seattle and UW Legend. Webster is an up and coming good player from Seattle. Greg Oden would be our superstar. Almost like trading Durant for Oden? Other good players Aldridge, Bayless, and more. The one huge bad point. They would not be called the SEATTLE SUPERSONICS.
Option 3: Expansion. Right now I can honestly say that I don’t think I would be interested in an expansion team. I believe that the NBA doesnt need to expand anymore and I just cant see starting from nothing again. The one GREAT point is the team would be called the SEATTLE SUPERSONICS.
Right now Im up in the air on what I want. If I had to say what Im leaning towards I would say FUK the NBA for good. In fact I have been saying all weekend FUK all pro sports and devoting all of my heart to the Huskies. I know that they suck right now and have for the last decade, but when they are in your heart you always believe they will turn it around like I always believed the Supes would do. I know for sure that no billionare is going to come in and relocate the UW HUSKIES.
July 7th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
West Seattle Tim at 12:26- you got that exactly right. The rich and powerful always get what they want. Which also means that if Ballmer really wants a new Key Arena and a team, he’ll probably get it. Palms will be greased in Olympia, and the funding will happen. And even though Stern is the scum of the earth, he does keep his promises. He promised Clay a team, and I have a feeling he’s promised Ballmer a team (if he gets the Key Arena remodel).
July 7th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Leading scorer so far for OKC.
You posted the info about the Magic site, that was more than enough for anyone interested. Now you’re just looking like a troll.
I’d like to know the type of players Westbrook and D.J. White are gonna be.
So do the folks in OKC. Go enjoy discussing it with them.
July 7th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
Man oh man - Westbrook looks real good. Man among boys. It hurts.
July 7th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
I do not agree about a relo being the same as expansion. Expansion teams have different rules, a lower cap number which is good, but often a restriction on having a #1 pick overall, the Bobcats had it much better than the Griz in that way, point being that you could relocate the worst team and actually have a chance at having the #1 pick overall, an expansion team next time around may be denied a top 3 or 1, or whatever somebody else says.
Also, somebody getting ready to sell, or is in a situation that is not profitable will have fewer long term contracts (if they expect to get the highest price) . Look at the Griz roster a year ago, look at it today, as inviting as the idea of Gasol is, he was due a giant contract, and Miller is good right now, his usefulness and value to a younger team will not be the same in 3 years when this year’s draft picks are mature.
A relo with you players already and cap flexability in the near term has a faster climb to the top, IMO.
I will be actively branding the mayor as responsible for leading the arena solution at the risk of being branded as ineffectual as the mayor when he runs for re-election next year. It is on him, it is the City of Seattle that the Seattle Center is in.
July 7th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
“D” at 10:26 said today…
“My feelings on the Mayor asking for help..he can shove it.”
As of this morning - that is how I am feeling too.
I would also add that while I know many will want NBA hoops at any cost etc. - as of this morning I also would say….
“My feelings on the NBA’s interest in coming back to Seattle is they can shove it - take your corrupt and manipulative screwed up league and find another place - If you are going to treat a city and fan base that has partnered with you well for 41 years the way you have treated Seattle - why would I even want to do business with you. Up yours and maybe see you in another generation or so.”
I think the mayor will find that among other things - he totally miscalculated the cost of his decision in terms of Sonics fans support for a new arena and team. Some will keep going no mater what - but many will walk away and say no way I will work with Nickels and no way do I even want the NBA back after this kind of blackmail and manipulation and abuse.
July 7th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Shammond Williams was a summer league mvp.
if you want to talk about another team, like the OKC Trolls, leave.
July 7th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Have anybody heard the Dino Rossi spot about how Christine Gregoire dropped the ball?
July 7th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Great, don’t want the NBA? Fine, I do not case much either. I want a 300 million dollar rebuild for 150 million dollars, I do not care what the put in the box, but I could use your help. Mayor’s come and go, like NBA owners, but a dead Key Arena is a bad thing for MY city.
July 7th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
John, I heard that last week on KJR. It started as a commercial for 08-09 tickets to see Westbrook and Durant. I thought it was a mistake and it made me upset to hear. Then they went into how Gregoire dropped the ball, and that Dino wouldn’t have done that.
It’s easy for him to say that though.
July 7th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
Dino Rossi on KJR at 1:35
July 7th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
“FYI here is my understanding of the “shared history” theory:
The NBA does not want the OKC team to have no history whatsoever. ”
That’s a disconcerting stance to take on the league’s part if there is truly interest on their part in having another team here in the near future. That would really make me think about the NBAs alleged commitment to the communities that host their product.
And it is utterly reprehensible that the City didn’t hold out to preserve that history. It was literally the least they could do. Failing that, using the term settlement for what they did is somewhat generous. Surrender would be more appropriate.
July 7th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Dick Tate Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Leading scorer so far for OKC.
You posted the info about the Magic site, that was more than enough for anyone interested. Now you’re just looking like a troll.
Guess what? That’s what they’re called now. The Sonics are gone. Everyone is dealing with that in their own way - yet, we still have basketball fans here, and some people still feel a connection to that team even though they now reside in OKC. Westbrook and DJ White were drafted as Seattle Supersonics. Are we now never going to talk about that team ever again? Do we need to change the site to localpoliticsastheyrelatetoanewstadiumcentral.com?
July 7th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
It is very easy for Rossi to say that now…
What a bunch of manipulative BS. I’m so tired of these self serving FUC**.
July 7th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
“It is very easy for Rossi to say that now…”
True, let’s see if he offers a concrete alternative …
July 7th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
I’m not a one issue voter but this issue proved to me that Gregoire is inflexible, shortsighted and spineless. That is all I need to know when deciding who I want to run my state in the future.
Someone put it this way earlier. Just imagine if these people were in charge during a crisis like a natural disaster or an attack. They’d be cowering under a table with their video games convention manuals. Forget them.
I don’t actualy feel that much animosity for Nickels though. He actively tried to talk with the PBC and offered as much as 100 million dollars. He then made this final choice thinking it will save NBA ball in Seattle in the future. Plus he helped put together the Ballmer group. He helped us get this far. It’s the state and county governments that need an overhaul.
July 7th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
SonicScott Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
KBA,
In the slim chance that Schultz wins his suit and the Sonics come back to Seattle, I’d like to know the type of players Westbrook and D.J. White are gonna be. Regardless of how crappy this situation is, I’m a basketball fan first and foremost, and I still have an attachment to this team.
SLIM CHANCE? TRY NO CHANCE. I have no problem if you want to know about what type of players they will be. But keep it to yourself. Nobody cares about the OKC team. Go back home. You can get league pass so you can watch all there games. So then you can still have an attachment to this team. We don’t want to hear about them.
July 7th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Bitter much? Yeesh.
So what are we supposed to talk about here? Our disdain for local politicians? Stadium funding? Are we just supposed to sit here and turn on each other because X person wants to be a Basketball fan, Y person wants to be a Blazer Fan, Z person wants to know what’s happening to the players we’ve been following for the last 10 years, and L person wants to sit there and hate on the fact that people on a basketball blog want to talk about *gasp* basketball?
July 7th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
“My gut feeling is that Schultz is in it for the extra money. I think he will win, but there is a slim chance that the judgment will include the team coming back. ”
-Or maybe hes doing it just to save face since he knows hes pretty hated right now.
“He’s 65 years old. Stern’s term ends in 2010. He’s likely to retire then. ”
I doubt well be that lucky. He will probably try to stay commissioner til the day he dies.
July 7th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
some people still feel a connection to that team even though they now reside in OKC. Westbrook and DJ White were drafted as Seattle Supersonics. Are we now never going to talk about that team ever again?
As I said to OKCScott, there are plenty of folks in that city that would be happy to discuss that team with you.
July 7th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Dick Tate Says:
July 7th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
As I said to OKCScott, there are plenty of folks in that city that would be happy to discuss that team with you.
So what do we discuss here?
July 7th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Everything but…
July 7th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
anyone wanting to watch Sonics picks Russell Westbrook and D.J. White, the Orlando Magic website has the summer league game streaming starting in a few minutes.
-um no thanks.
July 7th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
So we talk about everything but basketball here.
Awesome…
July 7th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Getting a new team. When we get the Sonics back then we can talk about them.
July 7th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
For everyone who thinks we might get Memphis- why would this happen? a) they have a lease stronger then ours b) i heard they have a local owner who is interested.
please correct me if im wrong because i would much rather have memphis then an expansion or no team at all.
July 7th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
“My gut feeling is that Schultz is in it for the extra money. I think he will win, but there is a slim chance that the judgment will include the team coming back. ”
I think it’s all about saving face. His mug was on the front page of the Times saying Seattle blamed him the most for the team leaving. He’s a local businessman, he doesn’t want that.
“He’s 65 years old. Stern’s term ends in 2010. He’s likely to retire then. ”
It’s certainly possible but I know he’s going to have influence until he dies, which I’m sorry to say, I hope is sooner than later. The world is a better place with people like him.
July 7th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Maybe we can change the website name to EmbitteredSonicsFansCentral.com.
Fact is that I’m a basketball fan. I originally came to this site to talk about basketball. Every year, after the draft, I watch summer league and try to keep up with all the intriguing lottery picks to see how they do. Also, I’m really curious to see how KD, JG, Westbrook, and White turn out because two of them were drafted and played as Sonics, and two of them were drafted as SEATTLE Supersonics. Are they OKC now? Yeah. Will they still be after the Schultz case? Probably. Are they still players that I’m a fan of? With the exception of DJ White, yeah. I followed Westbrook when he was at UCLA. I followed KD and JG through their rookie seasons.
Now this site is an unfriendly place to someone like me. That’s sad.
July 7th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
“So we talk about everything but basketball here.
Awesome… ”
-Basketball is the furthest thing from my mind.
July 7th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Let’s not bash SeeJ for wanting to talk basketball.
Maybe we should have a new thread for bball and one for the Seattle issue?
July 7th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
So we talk about everything but basketball here.
Everything but OKC basketball, big dif.
You know how most folks here feel about that open sore but are still poking at it… says alot.
Now this site is an unfriendly place to someone like me. That’s sad.
Yes, how sad for you. Like I said, there are other forums that will be much more accomodating to your interests.
July 7th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
SeeJ
Are you for real? What is sad is you don’t let people grieve. We just lost our Basketball team of 41 years. The last thing we want to talk about is OKC basketball and NBA. Maybe in a few months we can get back to talking Basketball but really go to these other sites if you want to talk about there team. Is that so hard to understand?
July 7th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
I’m not even fighting because I want to talk basketball. I just don’t understand why people are so freaking hostile! I understand - we lost our team. It’s sad. It’s frustrating. Why are we taking that out on each other? Even moreso, why are you taking that out on the people of OKC who just wanted a team to root for? It’s disgusting to see how some people here have decided that the cure for what ails them is to take their frustrations out on this community.
The people on this blog are not your enemies.
The players on the OKC NBA Team are not your enemies.
The fans in OKC are not your enemies.
July 7th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Well Rossi’s saying all the right things…Im willing to give him a chance to see if he means what it says. It cant get much worse anyway.
July 7th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Even moreso, why are you taking that out on the people of OKC who just wanted a team to root for? It’s disgusting to see how some people here have decided that the cure for what ails them is to take their frustrations out on this community.
Didn’t you mean to say “that” community? Hmm.
July 7th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
The fans in OKC are not your enemies.
The ones on the internet are.
July 7th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
Basketball thread, done:
http://sonicscentral.com/blog/?p=2010
July 7th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
So what do we discuss here?
- We can discuss about how great it will be that there will never ever ever ever ever ever have to be another discussions on the ability of our two sh!tty PGs…
- We can talk about how Chris Paul has had the best 3 year streatch to start a career as a PG (possibly at any position)
- We can talk about how well Rick Adleman did in the first round of the playoffs this year.
- We can talk about how lazy Chris Wilcox is and how not lazy Nick Collion is…and yet they both put up the same numbers.
Take your pick…lots of stuff to discuss
July 7th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
But now Chris Wilcox, Nick Collison, and the two PG’s are on that team. God forbid we utter their names here!
July 7th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
“Well Rossi’s saying all the right things…Im willing to give him a chance to see if he means what it says. It cant get much worse anyway. ”
Politics aside I think he made his points and made them well. I hope that he continues to put the pressure on current electeds throughout this campaign.
In a different thread MTSonic took me to task for Dem-bashing and local government bashing. What he fails to take into account is that I currently work for local gov’t too and have for several years.
The greatest foe in pursuing change through political means is the utter lack of accountability enjoyed by politicians in this state. This lack of accountability is why there is no replacement on table for viaduct, for 520, etc etc etc. That is not a Rep vs. Dem issue MTSonic. It’s an electorate issue. May I point out that many will vote for Obama in the upcoming presidential election to voice their dissatisfaction with the previous regime. It is not hypocritical to do the same thing on a local level, yet those people who want to throw Gregoire out or embrace Rossi out of a sense of failure are taken to task for this. Ridiculous.
I will vote for Obama in the presidential election and plan to vote for Rossi again this fall for governor. I did not like Gregoire in the last election because I feel she is part & parcel of the Democrat old guard cronyism that is crippling this state. That is not to say I like Rossi or the GOP at the national level, in my opinion he is simply the better candidate.
Understand that I do not vote R or D because I am not a partisan of either party; I despise inefficiency, doubletalk, and not being held accountable for ones’ actions. There has been a lot of talk and not much action under the watch of the Dem old guard going all the way back to the Mike Lowry days and beyond. They have not earned my trust nor my vote, and I encourage those of you who feel the same to NOT reward incompetence with another term simply because the incumbent has a D next to his or her name.
Incompetence knows no partisanship.
July 7th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
for those that may have missed this, a recap.
http://tinyurl.com/5lljo8
July 7th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
I don’t see how anyone can watch the former Sonic players unless they really weren’t invested in the team itself. It must be that they are invested in the individual players, not the team. If that is so, they might want to find a place that will discuss the players, because I have a feeling this place will not be talking about players for quite a while. I think this site is more about the team.
July 7th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
basketball thread is up, do that there.
new arena discussion thread is up, with some shameless self-promotion.
Come on, you know you want to solve the world’s problems.
July 7th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
But now Chris Wilcox, Nick Collison, and the two PG’s are on that team. God forbid we utter their names here!
- No…Im pretty sure most would say god forbid we utter their names here regardless if they had stayed.
July 7th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
If you want to read the blow-by-blow description of Mayor Nickels night out at the Storm game from someone who was sitting a few seats away from him (me), go back up to my 2:06 AM post this morning. Please add any comments here. For those that worry about such things, I was very polite to the Mayor and respectful, but I told him exactly what I thought of his decision.