Sports fans have a stake!
Posted on Wednesday, August 20th, 2008 at 10:12 am by Brian Robinson
I have in my hands a copy of the settlement agreement and will get back to you all if I note any details.
I know that shared history is a big deal to people. Per the agreement basically the Seattle team when it is established gets exlusive use to colors, logos, uniforms, etc. Seattle gets orginal banners, trophys, etc. Both teams shall be able to reference historical players, statistics, etc. It is not a very detailed explanation.
There is big, big news today on the election front. Today the latest poll shows as little as a 2% margin in the Governors race. Now I don’t want to get too partisan but I want to say that if the race is that close then Sports fans should be able to virtually determine the outcome if we get mobilized. I want to encourage you to call into talk radio today and bring up the fact that you want whoever is governor to address this issue and that you may be a single issue voter. Get to sports radio STATEWIDE and also talk shows like KIRO and supporters like KISW. If anyone wants to put links and phone numbers below it would be a great help.
Great to hear that Nick Collison and Jeff Green were in town at Pesos last week. Wish I’d caught up with them but I am glad they are still in the community.
Regarding the settlement option of tickets in OKC I believe that a significant strategic error was made by the PBC in not offering up tickets in OKC to “emerald club members”. Likely this will hurt them and if nothing else Sonics fans can sell their priority numbers, tickets, etc. to fans in OKC for a nice markup AND collect damages. I sense e-bay coming into play here.
Its an interesting strategy to demonstrate that Clay Bennett had options to attempt to creatively honor his agreement and reach out to season ticket holders. It was his choice not to do so…
I would not read much into the absence of Key Arena in the Seattle Center plan. For obvious reasons the Key is a seperate entity and they need to have it funded independantly and soon rather than lumping it in with a big package and putting it out to public vote.
The site was updated successfully and we’ll monitor it for spam issues. Thanks to the guys who offered to help!
August 20th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Hi from Vancouver.
Great to hear Kevin Colabaro will be back as the new voice of the Sounders!
August 20th, 2008 at 11:13 am
Dino Rossi’s campaign contact info:
Address:
PO Box 52908
Bellevue, WA 98015
E-mail: info@dinorossi.com
Telephone: (425) 498-2008
Fax: (425) 497-2100
Information: Street Address
2723 152nd Ave NE
Bldg. 6, Ste. C
Redmond, WA 98052
August 20th, 2008 at 11:14 am
Gregoire’s contact page on website:
http://www.governor.wa.gov/contact/default.asp
August 20th, 2008 at 11:15 am
Anyone who is in Chopp’s district should contact him too. He is getting a high % of the vote (crazy to me!) and I’m sure he will be voted back in. : (
August 20th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
I will say, again, for best results we need both candidates to articulate a reasonable response with some “I will” do action words in it.
We need to apply some encouraging pressure to any and all to state a position and encourage any side to respond. The side that does not respond should feel pressure to respond in a way that solves the problem to our benefit.
There is a chance that the person you vote for will not get into office. The person that does should not be made an enemy along the way.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Of course Chopp will be voted back in by a landslide. The vast majority of his constituents are thrilled with how things played out. As much as we may want to target the various politicians in our region, we should make sure to credit the fine folks of the 43rd for jettisoning our Sonics.
Regarding the settlement option of tickets in OKC I believe that a significant strategic error was made by the PBC in not offering up tickets in OKC to “emerald club members”. Likely this will hurt them…
Likely not, imo.
August 20th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Thanks to whomever fixed the site. Any chance we can get the forum/board update links restored?
August 20th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Radio Stations WA State
http://www.shgresources.com/wa/radio/
Media outlets WA State:
http://www.abyznewslinks.com/unitewa.htm
August 20th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
I cant wait for moderation> I had 2 links.
http://www.shgresources.com/wa/radio/
ALL THE RADIO STATIONS IN WA STATE
August 20th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
thanks for keeping hope alive!
August 20th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Well my vote yesterday went to Gary Payton as new governor. I feel it the best vote I’ve ever made. Haha.
August 20th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
You know, I truly loathe the NBA and I’m sick by the way everything happened but I still think highly of OKC. That place is doing things right now. In ten years it’s going to be a regularly known city I think.
This decade they have put together tax packages to rebuild their city, they have rerouted their major freeway near the city core, and now they have a new tallest tower proposed that is nearly as tall as the Columbia Center. Oh yeah, and they have a pro sports franchise…
Seattle hasn’t seen anything like this in how long? Not to mention all at once…
Here’s that tower,
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=690618
August 20th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
ps. I know that’s prob not we want to think about or hear right now but I want people to know my beef isn’t with OKC. It’s with the corrupt league that would rather suck off its owners and destroy fan relations than put out a quality product. Not to mention the league rigged games for ratings.
August 20th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
You forgot about the masses of OKC peoples who are just fine with the way PBC operates because they got their toy. And to top it all off they come to Seattle boards and gloat and revell in their ill-gotten gains.
I never had a problem with OK or its people until now. I have no kind words or thoughts for them now. I don’t even wear the OKC Memorial Tshirt I got on a trip there once.
“OOOOk-lahoma, where the wind comes sweepin’ down the plain”… but morals, scruples, honesty, integrity, and plain old “doin the right thing” are as foreign to them as the albino coughing tortoise of Zimbabwe.
August 20th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
OKC is the next Vegas.
A regularly known city? I don’t mean to be rude, but isn’t it already?
August 20th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
Eric E, that’s really neat…would like to put money down on whether this “pie in the sky” energy company fantasy comes to fruition? That building is pipe dream based on the stale assumption of $200 oil. Save it.
August 20th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
tahoe, I sense some hostility? I’m just trying to perspective on it all. OKC really doesn’t deserve blame imo. There is some ignorance about the move that irks me but overall they are just doing something to enhance their city and are proud of it. I haven’t been feeling that kind of community excitement here in Seattle. I’m not jumping ship or anything. I still want the franchise here or for it to fail miserably there. I’m all Seattle, even if some blame falls on our city.
August 20th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Julain, I don’t think OKC is the next vegas, they have VERY different economies. And no, I don’t think OKC is known at all actually.
Getting back to the original topic. I sent Gregoire a calm yet scathing email. Won’t mean anything but it felt good lol.
And I created this facebook group about replacing all the politicians who lost the Sonics. It has 240 members, not a huge amount but enough to change last year’s vote…
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25115825123
August 20th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
OMG - they’re taking flat screen TV and other equipment out of KEY - that’s just crazy - Who in the Hell agreed to that?? I don’t care about the monetary value - Sorry, somehow it just feels like further rape.
OKC is an up and coming legend in it’s own mind
Thanks for the links - I will be writing and calling.
We all need to get on this now. Tick-Tock . ..Tick-tock
August 20th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
they aren’t spliting the case
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/375856_trial21.html
August 20th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
I’m not liking these rulings however I’m not a lawyer so not sure if this is real significant or not.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/375856_trial21.html
You know that Stern will be happy he can keep the NBA involved in this lawsuit!
August 20th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
So just how cheap is Bennett and co?? You can’t even furnish the Ford Center with your own equipment?? With all that tax money? For some reason this article just got me going.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/375797_sonx21.html
August 20th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
well the city of seattle just got royally ass raped, and as for the nba, how cheap and nasty has it become. shared history please, what a joke. the nba is the lowest of the low, its a sport that cant even respect its history, absolutely disgraceful.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Columbia Center is 72 stories tall. This OKC “skyscraper” is 54 stories tall. It isn’t close to as tall as the Columbia Center Building. There is 18 stories difference.
Union Square II Building is taller than their new “skyscraper”.
I don’t like Pechman’s decision. Giving in to the NBA way too much. It really would be nice if Yarmuth would consider adding the NBA as a defendant.
And I don’t understand why parts of the Key Arena is going to OKC. Don’t we have a WNBA team still playing in the Key?
August 20th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
Columbia Center is 72 stories tall. This OKC “skyscraper” is 54 stories tall. It isn’t close to as tall as the Columbia Center Building. There is 18 stories difference.
*******************
That’s true but floor count isn’t always an accurate representation of height. The Columbia Center is 937 ft tall while the proposed building in OKC would be 925 ft tall. Surprisingly close :/
August 20th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
That is almost 17 feet per story. There is something wrong there. What does it contain that is not an inhabitable part of the building?
August 20th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Devon sure is spending all of that money that they gouged out of people. I have zero respect for energy companies right now with their billions of dollars in profit while people on fixed income like retirees cannot afford to drive their cars.
August 20th, 2008 at 11:19 pm
“That is almost 17 feet per story. There is something wrong there. What does it contain that is not an inhabitable part of the building?”
That same question was raised in one of the threads on Skyscrapercity. It’s accurate, the bottom and top of the tower just have extremely tall ceilings or something. I dunno.
“Devon sure is spending all of that money that they gouged out of people. I have zero respect for energy companies right now with their billions of dollars in profit while people on fixed income like retirees cannot afford to drive their cars.”
Now THAT I agree with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 21st, 2008 at 12:07 am
Oouchh - -
Pechman’s decisions and Key Arena equipment rape - - Tough day for us Seattle Fans . .. .. . .
Anyone here that can provide a legal viewpoint on the Pechman decisions? Any ideas on Schultz/Yarmuth response and if this alters their continuation of the lawsuit??
August 21st, 2008 at 6:28 am
My opinion is that now the NBA is going to have to give up some emails and financial docs and a whole lot of other things.
Also, now the NBA has to defend this team stealing and justify trampling on the hope and dreams of a loyal customer base for over 41 years. Go ahead NBA tell us again why you let this happen. Oh yeah Stern SEE YOU IN COURT!!!
August 21st, 2008 at 9:33 am
My opinion is that now the NBA is going to have to give up some emails and financial docs and a whole lot of other things.
Also, now the NBA has to defend this team stealing and justify trampling on the hope and dreams of a loyal customer base for over 41 years. Go ahead NBA tell us again why you let this happen. Oh yeah Stern SEE YOU IN COURT!!!
That thought has come to me as well. That means that the NBA cannot get out of discovery this time.
August 21st, 2008 at 9:38 am
Stern is trembling.
The NBA wanted to be part of this case.
August 21st, 2008 at 9:44 am
Julain, I don’t think OKC is the next vegas, they have VERY different economies. And no, I don’t think OKC is known at all actually.
- I guess the biggest question about your claim is what do you mean by “known”. I’m pretty sure that most people in the Country should know that there is a city in Oklahoma called Oklahoma City…it is the capital of the state afterall (no comments about our public school educations please)…
So, if you aren’t using the most common definition of known and instead meaning more like “well known” or “highly thought of” I would have to disagree. Salt Lake City had the Olympics…is it considered “highly thought of”? What about San Antonio, or Memphis…Buffalo…etc.
The NBA just isn’t that important to the class of the City. What the NBA doesn’t understand is that it actually works the other way around. Being in great cities gives the NBA its prestige…it is not the NBA that is making the city great.
August 21st, 2008 at 9:45 am
No, them not splitting the case is a virtual assurance that Schultz won’t be able to win, IMO.
August 21st, 2008 at 9:47 am
Also, now the NBA has to defend this team stealing and justify trampling on the hope and dreams of a loyal customer base for over 41 years. Go ahead NBA tell us again why you let this happen. Oh yeah Stern SEE YOU IN COURT!!!
- Ya…all this means is that there is about a 100xs more chance of this getting settled. The reason Schultz wanted two cases is that he is apparently responsible for paying all three sides of legal fees (which I don’t get whatsoever…).
This was a pretty significant loss to Schultz. All of this will be over soon.
August 21st, 2008 at 10:06 am
I have to agree with Myk. This case is about over. I’ve lost complete faith in the NBA, our politicians, AND our legal system. Apparently fairness in this country (in every aspect of this country) is directly related to who has the deepest pockets.
August 21st, 2008 at 10:35 am
“”I have to agree with Myk. This case is about over. I’ve lost complete faith in the NBA, our politicians, AND our legal system. Apparently fairness in this country (in every aspect of this country) is directly related to who has the deepest pockets.”"
I couldn’t have worded any of this better myself. Thank you for writing so clearly what I have been thinking.
August 21st, 2008 at 11:07 am
sad. isnt there a chance this ruling could be a good thing? dont we want all the discovery from the nba?
August 21st, 2008 at 11:26 am
Here’s an article calling out the mayor and the city council for their lack of efforts and concern regarding gang violence in Seattle.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/jamieson/375828_robert21.html
This is my favorite line:
“Mayor Greg Nickels, I’ve learned, is up to something. He’s been slow. This is not an election year, after all, and the bodies are dropping in Rainier Valley — not the Rainier Club. It seems as if his plastic-bag policy has priority over kids in body bags.”
August 21st, 2008 at 11:34 am
The NBA set out to contest the remedy, then added that Bennett could not defend the NBA’s interest’s.
In a way, Schultz will be able to sue the NBA via Bennett, even though he signed a release to do so directly. Not sure that the NBA can force itself into a case and then move to dismiss, the liability part still appies to Bennett and not the NBA. The remedy is all but dead.
I wonder if a side to a case like this can show arbitary application of its own rules being so frequent that the claims the NBA makes in reference to its rules could be watered down.
The question does become; does Schultz pull the NBA in as far as he can and expose them as much as possible in discovery as being a party to the liaibility, or does he isolate the NBA to the remedy and just take Bennett to task?
I still think ANY gain from this is a plus. How far Schultz is still willing to go is a question.
NBA has 7 days to responde with the particulars of its pleadings. That may tip the case one way or another, toward the NBA more or not.
August 21st, 2008 at 11:38 am
I wonder if this now comes down to Schultz’s personal sense of determination & pride in this.
He has the money to fight all the way - but does he want to spend it at this point? Does he want to risk losing in court & paying other parties legal fees?
I hope he takes it all the way - but this rulling would seem to increase the chances he wills ettle earlier than a trial.
August 21st, 2008 at 12:04 pm
I still think ANY gain from this is a plus. How far Schultz is still willing to go is a question.
- Let it be clear…I’m not sure this ruling really effects the merit of the case…I just have zero faith that Schultz will be willing to risk losing all the attorney fees for the three groups.
August 21st, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Here is a PI article about the strong Mariners support despite the awful on field product.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/375876_mariattend21.html
Reading it makes me sick. All these lemming Mariners fans praise the team and Safeco Field despite the record and cost of the stadium…. the 2 things they use to dismiss the Sonics.
I am very put off by this town right now.
August 21st, 2008 at 12:53 pm
As unrealistic as is sounds, it would not surprise me one bit if Judge Pechman is somehow being influenced by the NBA. The NBA has more money than Howard Schultz, and the Judge will side with the League. I’m starting to think that is what happened with the City’s case, and that is what will happen here as well. The judge will encourage Schultz to settle with the league-for reasons that the public will never know.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:40 pm
“All these lemming Mariners fans praise the team and Safeco Field despite the record and cost of the stadium…. the 2 things they use to dismiss the Sonics.”
Who is the ‘they’ that you are referring to?
I’d personally much rather go sit out at Safeco during a crappy baseball game, drink beer and the like than sit in the Key.
The biggest problem with blaming anything on the Mariners is that the city and the team cut a horrible lease deal on a forced renovation of Key Arena. The fact that the Key still had 33 million (of the 75 million spent on it) remaining on its buyout and they were now looking for 300 million more to fix it again is very different from the situation at Safeco and with the Mariners.
People get way too damn caught up in the rhetoric of things. It’s an article written by one guy, not a case against doing something for the Sonics.
Why do you care if people still go to the Mariners games despite thier record?
August 21st, 2008 at 2:41 pm
I still think the judge will end up dismissing the case before it goes to trial (or Howie drops).
Here is a PI article about the strong Mariners support despite the awful on field product.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/375876_mariattend21.html
“I’m greatly heartened by our fan base and how they’ve stuck with us through thick and thin,” said Bob Aylward, the Mariners’ executive vice president of business operations. “They are very savvy baseball fans, and I think that we’re sixth in the American League is a reflection on the fans and their knowledge base.”
LMAO! Who is he trying to fool? More than half the folks won’t interrupt their yakking (about all things other than baseball) for a big play on the field and they’ll cheer louder for the dancing grounds crew and hydro races. Savvy!
August 21st, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Well the whole code things just ate my post about the Mariners…so this one wont be as detailed:
- Mariners are only drawing at 65% occupancy…have one of the highest payrolls in baseball ($120 million) and have made money every year.
- Sonics actually drew 78% occupancy last year. 65% occupancy would’ve meant only 11k customers. Their payroll was middle of the pack at $60million. They have lost $10s of millions of dollars a year.
- This points directly to the NBA business model. They have smaller Arenas than MLB and only play half the number of games. Yet, their payrolls are more than 50% of their MLB counterparts. It doesn’t make any financial sense. Since an average NBA Arena is 2.5(ish) smaller than an MLB stadium that means they need to charge 2.5 times more for tickets to be able to generate similar revenue…that is just a silly business model to follow.
I know that Courtside Seats go for hundreds of dollars, but there are only so many of those that you can have available. Since the NBA wants to appear that they care they require the teams to sell a certain % of tickets at low prices (the same as MLB games). That means they are relying on a tiny group of people to spend thousands of dollars a game to help justify their payrolls.
As someone who was that “rich”, but not a terribly big sports fan and is looking to buy the tickets to look cool (which we all know is a pretty big portion of people) would you rather buy tickets to one game of a bad Sonics team, or would you rather by 20 tickets to a Mariners game??
Therefore, in the NBA the only way to come out ahead is to win and be THE show in town…some argue that is why they moved to OKC, but smaller markets also mean fewer guys available ot make those purchases…its still all about winning. Unfortunately, for the NBA only 10 or so teams can ever be great. It is amazing to me how Dallas/Portland and New York even justify spending so much money…its truly one of the worst business decisions ever.
Anyways, I know that this is all stuff we have talked about before…however, it is really interesting when you sit down and just look at the numbers. Why the NBA thinks it is OK to spend $60 million on 12 players when MLB spends $100 million on 25 is just completely removed from logic.
August 21st, 2008 at 3:07 pm
LMAO! Who is he trying to fool? More than half the folks won’t interrupt their yakking (about all things other than baseball) for a big play on the field and they’ll cheer louder for the dancing grounds crew and hydro races. Savvy!
- Well you know supporting the worst team in baseball would be the definition of being savvy…maybe he meant another s word like stupid/slowminded/(easily)suckered
August 21st, 2008 at 3:36 pm
if Schultz keeps going and accepts the trial costs, what would make him stop then?
He would not get back a team he does not currently have. His case, as part of the settlement with the city, is independent from the city/Ballmer efforts.
If he chooses to go, there is no point in stopping unless he gets what he wants or the trial ends. He isn’t the mayor having to answer to voters, fans already blame him. Other than the massive cost there is not reason I see stopping.
August 21st, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Eric E. at 12:10 PM….
I think the issue that frustrates you is really driven by the dynamic that MLB is simply a much more popular sport than the NBA. More people like it, watch it, attend games and care about it.
Add to this the understandable reaction among Seattle area sports fans to the NBA & Stern over the past 2 years or so. IMO - yes our local political leaders made big mistakes - but in this we have been given the middle finger by the league. Stern and the league abandoned us after a 41 year partnership. They made no significant effort to make it work in Seattle when the going got tough and Stern immediately was in bed with Clay B. from the day Clay bought the team.
Gioven this stpecific context - I am not surprised at all that for many people they simply do not care anymore if the NBA returns or not - and in some cases they frankly are so fed up with the corruption & hypocrisy of stern & the League that they no longer even want a new NBA team.
Obvioulsy some hardcare fans still want the NBA to return - but Stern has succedded in alienating many people in this community.
all this contributes to the dynamic you mention and the difference between Mariner interest/support and less interest in the NBA.
August 21st, 2008 at 3:57 pm
let’s see how interested the public is the next time Safeco needs cash for the structure and the investment will have to conform to I-91.
Savy Mariner voters.
I never really took an interest in baseball since the Pilots left town when I was a little kid.
About safeco, the crap around the stadium pays for a lot of that payroll. They have the financial means to resolve the roster. That has not been the case with the Sonics.
August 21st, 2008 at 4:27 pm
I am a baseball fan first, football fan second and basketball fan third so I won’t bash baseball fans. At least, they have people in their seats, and the team isn’t going anywhere. It is here to stay.
Safeco doesn’t have to conform to I-91 because it is owned by King County, not Seattle. Neither does QWest. Besides, both of them are being renovated and maintained on the teams’ dimes for the duration of their lease. Unlike the Key, the teams actually have to contribute to maintaining their respective venues.
Now about the Schultz lawsuit . . . what this does is open the door for discovery with the NBA. If they do try to cause trouble rather than sticking only with the sale of the team if Schultz prevails, it opens the door for Yarmuth to slap an anti-trust lawsuit against the NBA. Stern has already threatened Schultz so that is already on record. NBA needs to be careful.
August 21st, 2008 at 6:37 pm
The NBA has 7 days to produce its pleadings before the court. They could have generalized them in their initial document, I wonder how they word the claim without becoming a big target of Schultz.
August 21st, 2008 at 8:10 pm
I think that during the discovery period Schultz will get something on the NBA but he will lose his lawsuit
August 21st, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Other than the massive cost there is not reason I see stopping.
- A rather contradictory statement
August 21st, 2008 at 9:51 pm
Its over guys (and gals)… Nickels through all of us and Schultz under the bus for $45 million, and this albeit ices the cake.
As a fan of only one pro sport - NBA basketball - Paul Allen is a dude I will have no problem giving money to.
Go Blazers!
August 22nd, 2008 at 1:13 am
Mmmmm….
Safeco & Mariner Fans - - - beautiful outside stadium in downtown Seattle - - it’s still a “place to go on a Seattle summer day” whether the team performs or not. If they continue down this losing path - you should expect those attendance numbers to change.
Seattle/Sonics/NBA/Schultz case - Damn, Damn, Damn !!! Pechman - Damn her. Or, hopefully, Schultz/Yarmuth have a Pandora’s box just ready to be opened with this case.
At this point, I guess I can only hope that Schultz/Yarmuth have damaging PBC/NBA information & admissable evidence that we are not yet aware of. Or, perhaps, it’s just a leverage bluff call. Just not sure at this point - any knowlegeable and legal viewpoints are encouraged to respond.
Heck, I need some NBA/Sonics on our ugly Seattle winter days to get me thru. Seems to make them more tolerable.
Help !!
August 22nd, 2008 at 5:34 am
myk, what is a massive cost to me and what is a massive cost to Howard are two different things.
Clint, there are Blazer fan sites, maybe you should go there. You have no reason for being here, from what you have posted.
August 22nd, 2008 at 8:40 am
“Its over guys (and gals)… Nickels through all of us and Schultz under the bus for $45 million, and this albeit ices the cake.”
Sorry you feel like he threw you under the bus. Sadly I think people have forgotten that he has to look at things in a much larger picture than most of us ever do. All in all, I think he did the right thing given his duty as the Mayor.
Schultz sold ‘us’ down the river way before the Mayor did
“Go Blazers!”
http://www.blazersedge.com
Good Bye.
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:39 am
I was wondering when the “you’re not welcome here” type posts were going to start coming out. When will this site be officially renamed? SeattleCenterCentral doesn’t have such a bad ring. Where’s the link where I can contribute to Nickels’ campaign fund?
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:56 am
I was wondering when the “you’re not welcome here” type posts were going to start coming out. When will this site be officially renamed? SeattleCenterCentral doesn’t have such a bad ring. Where’s the link where I can contribute to Nickels’ campaign fund?
- Yes cause Clint has been the most rational/concept grasping person board member ever…
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:58 am
Ouch..now this decision means Bennett will have the support and money of the NBA behind him and Schultz cannot and will not afford to continue the battle. He will soon “settle” drop the suit in exchange for some stupid promise by the NBA and Bennet. I expect a promise from the NBA of Seattle will get the next NBA expansion team. (we all know there will not be another expansion team) From Bennett we will get the trademark/logo/jersey’s etc. for good. NO sharing..(like they ever wanted it anyways)
No offense to Mariner fans. I go to Mariner games as well but am finding myself a little bitter towards Mariner and Seahawk fans as I look at their Billion dollar gorgeous stadiums. I am not a big fan of either but backed those bldgs and where were they to stand up and fight for the Sonics.
August 22nd, 2008 at 12:22 pm
“I think the issue that frustrates you is really driven by the dynamic that MLB is simply a much more popular sport than the NBA. More people like it, watch it, attend games and care about it.”
JJ’s got it dead on right with this comment. Where it gets even worse is that the NFL is on a completely different par than Baseball and the NBA is way behind either of them.
When you talk mainstream appeal the NBA might be the fourth most popular sport in America and when Tiger’s rolling it probably drops to fifth. It’s not something Stern wants to hear, but look at the sponsorship stuff and its absolutely true.
“I am not a big fan of either but backed those bldgs and where were they to stand up and fight for the Sonics.”
how do you know they weren’t there? I certainly supported both of those venues and still support doing something here at Seattle Center. I think in the case of those that supported one but not this one I think they saw the writing on teh wall the day Bennett bought the team.
I went to 3 games last year, I live 2 miles from the Key and my company has seats. What does that tell you about my interest level?
August 22nd, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Buck the Flazers. Any Sonics fan that turns to them is like a battered woman who goes from one abusive relationship to another.
Sacramento’s been trying to get a new arena for nearly ten years now yet the NBA’s not abandoning that city.
August 22nd, 2008 at 1:26 pm
“When you talk mainstream appeal the NBA might be the fourth most popular sport in America and when Tiger’s rolling it probably drops to fifth. It’s not something Stern wants to hear, but look at the sponsorship stuff and its absolutely true.”
According to the following Harris poll the NBA is tied with men’s college basketball as the sixth most popular sport. Ten years ago it was third.
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=866
I think Stern won’t acknowledge it but a large reason he prefered OKC over Seattle is the lack of competition from other sports.
August 22nd, 2008 at 3:26 pm
I think Stern won’t acknowledge it but a large reason he prefered OKC over Seattle is the lack of competition from other sports.
Good point. That’s also probably why the NBA isn’t willing to give up on Sacramento… yet.
Buck the Flazers. Any Sonics fan that turns to them is like a battered woman who goes from one abusive relationship to another.
I like this analogy. However, the bottom line is I still need to get laid and the NBA gives me the best sex ever.
August 22nd, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Dick Tate Says:
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:39 am
I was wondering when the “you’re not welcome here” type posts were going to start coming out. When will this site be officially renamed? SeattleCenterCentral doesn’t have such a bad ring. Where’s the link where I can contribute to Nickels’ campaign fund?
hiperbole much
Clint bitterly complains about the situation, an says he will never set foot in Key arena again and is going to cheer on the Blazers.
I’m all for bitterly complaining about the state of things, but, why in the world would you bother coming here if you are a self proclaimed Blazer fan?
If you will never return, and are going to go be a Blazer fan the GO be a Blazer fan.
I understand that some people will watch anything that moves (that’s you, Lester), some of will not. But, it is pretty clear that the forcus here is getting an arena solution that Clint does not want to be a part of, and get a new Sonics team that Clint’s beloved Blazers will be playing in the future.
The endless gifts this city has bestowed up on Paul Allen is one of the biggest problems of the city. I’m not a fan. I would rather have a f-ing sidewalk than a trolly, please and thank you.
The city council can get off him now.
I agree with Scott, I understand why Nickels did it. Does not mean I agree with what he did, or even the reasoning, or like it even a tiny bit.
I have considered filing to run for mayor next go round. Not that I want that crappy job, but so that I can bitterly complain in the voter’s pamphlet about the mayor and city council.
What does it cost, $150?
August 22nd, 2008 at 4:02 pm
No offense to Mariner fans. I go to Mariner games as well but am finding myself a little bitter towards Mariner and Seahawk fans as I look at their Billion dollar gorgeous stadiums. I am not a big fan of either but backed those bldgs and where were they to stand up and fight for the Sonics.
***************
This is what I’m saying.
And I agree with JJ, that’s the most accurate post on here imo.
August 22nd, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Ha. Thanks, Scott and Baker! Best of luck with the mayor. I hope the sellout doesn’t lie to and/or mislead you (again).
I really doubt there will ever be NBA basketball again in Seattle, especially with Stern’s publicized desire to push into freakin’ China and India. Personally, I will never support an NBA team, (nor arena funding for), that isn’t our stolen, KD-led Sonics in Seattle. Expansion nu-Sonics 2.0 would just be a joke to this fine city, and certainy not deserving of a new arena. And let’s face it - with Pechman on the bench, no visible Seattle or Balmer support, and the NBA teamed with Keller, Schultz looks to be dead in the water.
Go Blazers! They have the best collection of Seattle pro basketball talent in the league! I’ve already got plans for at least 6 trips to Portland for next season, so I’m good to go.
See ya (in Portland), guys… best of luck with Mayor Sellout and his council of liberal elitist cronies!
August 22nd, 2008 at 11:10 pm
I really doubt there will ever be NBA basketball again in Seattle, especially with Stern’s publicized desire to push into freakin’ China and India. Personally, I will never support an NBA team, (nor arena funding for), that isn’t our stolen, KD-led Sonics in Seattle. Expansion nu-Sonics 2.0 would just be a joke to this fine city, and certainy not deserving of a new arena. And let’s face it - with Pechman on the bench, no visible Seattle or Balmer support, and the NBA teamed with Keller, Schultz looks to be dead in the water.
Go Blazers! They have the best collection of Seattle pro basketball talent in the league! I’ve already got plans for at least 6 trips to Portland for next season, so I’m good to go.
- Wow…the fact that you do not see how contradictory paragraph one is from paragraph two shows what an idiot you actually are…
August 23rd, 2008 at 10:23 am
I’ll be following the Blazers for different reasons.
a. They are now my home team. Home just happens to be far away.
b. Unlike Clint, the local connections aren’t that compelling to me. I’m much more interested in watching the Oden/Aldridge duo. I’ve always been a fan of power basketball and the Blazers will be sporting a front line unlike any the Sonics have ever seen.
c. Also unlike Clint, if Seattle ever manages to land a team in the future, I’d drop the Blazers in a heartbeat to welcome my new home team. Unfortunately, that day may be decades away. Until then, Portland is my home. F*** Seattle, F*** the mayor, F*** Key Arena and the lame plan that would do nothing for the next five years.
August 24th, 2008 at 12:46 am
International Basketball is disgusting…just flat out painful to watch…It is no wonder that the scouts have such problems with international players
August 24th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
MarkS - Great points - Stern moving to cities with less or no competition. Makes total sense.
Baker - always informed and intelligent posts. You’ve got my vote.
Really, we all need to quit bickering and playing the coulda, woulda, shoulda blame game.
Those of you who don’t want the NBA here in Seattle. Then, for you, I am sorry. But it’s probably time you moved on to other forums. While the NBA is dark in Seattle, I will support the Blazers. But, as soon as the “NBA Sonics” return to Seattle - I will be back wearing the green and gold. I can’t wait for that first home game in the remodeled NBA approved Key. I will be there!! Screaming and cheering !!
We gotta have some faith that Schultz/Yarmuth have enough in the tank to get us a Sonic team back soon.
Now - - Our collective energy should be spent on getting an arena solution. We should be actively supporting those who are working for these solutions.
August 24th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
The Mayor failed miserably. In order to have been successful, he would have had to:
A) Not capitulate
OR
B) Get an ironclad agreement from the NBA for an expansion team in a short time period.
I agree that the majority of his voters don’t understand what we have lost, and perhaps from that point of view the Mayor did “what he was supposed to do”. But the problem with that argument is that from day one until the day The Great Capitulation was announced, he was shouting from every rooftop that he would never surrender. He promised us fans both privately and very publicly that he would fight this to the end and hold PBC to the lease.
Then he turned around and stabbed us in the back. Don’t forget that part fellas.
RE: Blazers… I see no problem supporting them until (if/when) we get a new team in Seattle. If I go to games in Portland, I will be wearing either my Sonics gear or one of my Save Our Sonics shirts.
August 25th, 2008 at 12:21 am
SpeedCat - -
Blazers Games - - Yup, I’ll always be sportin’ the green & gold
Yup - Nickels, well H*LL, he sold his soul and all his lies sold our rear ends down the river. Liar, Liar - - - y’all know the rest.
Does anyone here have a positive view concerning Pechman’s rulings? Any response from Schultz/Yarmuth? Were we all just drinkin’ the Kool-Aid of Sonic/Schultz/Yarmuth hope??
Help !! Damn, this hurts !!
Congrats to the USA Redeem Team on winning the GOLD!!
August 25th, 2008 at 6:42 am
“He promised us fans both privately and very publicly that he would fight this to the end and hold PBC to the lease.”
I know you don’t agree with his decision, but people have been using this ‘promise’ thing a bit too literally and by continuing to act as though he actually broke the publics trust on this one you’re propogating the myth.
If everyone thought about this logically, the polls state that public money taxation for pro basketball in Seattle actually runs about half as positively as George Bush’s approval rating on a national basis. Why would any politican make the promises that you’re stating he made?
His stance then, and now is that the City would never accept an all-cash buyout. If you were to ask him today, he’d tell you he kept that promise. I know the comment is coming back that all they got out of this was cash, and anger allows that to be made.
Negotiations are always about creation of wins for all parties. As much as the ’stealing our KD led Sonics’ fans don’t want to believe this, at some point that didn’t become an option anymore. Oddly it might have been actually completely thrown out of the boat the day they become ‘our KD led Sonics’.
August 25th, 2008 at 7:26 am
I know you don’t agree with his decision, but people have been using this ‘promise’ thing a bit too literally and by continuing to act as though he actually broke the publics trust on this one you’re propogating the myth.
Politicians never promise anything. They’ll always leave themselves an out. Their language is a form of art.
August 25th, 2008 at 8:55 am
“Politicians never promise anything. They’ll always leave themselves an out. Their language is a form of art.”
Absolutely. Which is why i highlighted ‘promise’
August 25th, 2008 at 10:03 am
MarkS - Great points - Stern moving to cities with less or no competition. Makes total sense.
- I think that it “appears” to make sense. However, in practice I think it has failed pretty miserably. One of the issues with going to a market with no competition is that almost by definition it will be market with less disposable income…but an NBA player makes the same amount no matter where he plays.
It would be much harder to generate the ticket revenues required to pay Kobe Bryant $20 million a year in OKC then it would be in Los Angeles. This isn’t like a real business where you can move your call center to Montana and pay your workers half the salary you’d pay them in Seattle…
This is the NBA’s final grasp as their business model implodes in their face. Sadly, I think the NBA is just the first pro sports league that will encounter this as salaries continue to spiral out of control.
August 25th, 2008 at 11:27 am
From ESPN.com today:
And their coach — whether it’s Krzyzewski, Gregg Popovich, Mike D’Antoni, P.J. Carlesimo or someone else — can have the opportunity to shoot down the inevitable questions about Dream Team 9 the same way Krzyzewski patiently shot them down here in Beijing.
- Lets play the Seasame Street Game…which name above doesn’t fit with the others??
August 25th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Again, I understand why he took the money and the letter from Stern that has the same value as the Gregiore letter, I do not have to agree or like it.
Politicos lie so it’s ok is just not a value I can embrace, Scott’s after the fact reasoning notwithstanding.
He was absolutely clear, “or he’s the biggest liar in the world”, BR.
I can make reason out of the facts, after the fact, but I am unwilling to recreate a known public expression that wasn’t there.
Faced with preselected set of options that express themselves as a false sense of choice, a choice that can only be made by Nickels and Ballmer, I find myself supporting the ideas from others even when I do not support the politician in control.
I am all about Seattle Center being rebuilt, along with Key Arena, and Ballmer’s NBA team living in it. I do not really give a ratsass about who makes that happens in local government.
Save Our Sonics from local city government. They will only use you desires against you for their personal gain, the sooner my personal history can get ripped out of their hands, the better.
The sooner the arena gets moving the sooner the rest of the Seattle Center moves forward.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Save Our Sonics from local city government. They will only use you desires against you for their personal gain
Such as having the legislature approve the funding next session and then watch the Arena sit untouched for the next five years so the City can collect an easy $30 million. The final insult would be seeing Ballmer outbid by Oracle (or others) for any team that may come available during that time frame. But i’m sure they’d say they tried their darnedest.
the sooner my personal history can get ripped out of their hands, the better.
There’s no time like the present.
August 25th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
as if there is, or will be, only one team on the market.
What is the next gift Stern can give Bennett? “Relocate” The Oklahoma Sternwhisperers to the eastern conference, take the Hornets with them.
Griz and Bobcats go west coast.
August 25th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Nickels: “I’m not going to negotiate a buyout and we are in court fighting to preserve what we believe the Sonics committed to, which is having them as the main tenant through that (2009-10) season.”
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/351970_arena20.html?source=oys
August 25th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
http://www.seattle.gov/mayor/newsdetail.asp?ID=7886&dept=40
Greg Nickels: “I will do everything in my power to enforce our lease and keep the Sonics and Storm where they belong - in Seattle through 2010 and beyond. “
August 25th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
You hire your spokespeople to represent you. What your spokespeople say in public represents your public positions. Greg Nickels is not exempt from that fact.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/351698_arena18.html?source=mypi
“Ceis and Marty McOmber, spokesman for Mayor Greg Nickels, both criticized Stern for using a public forum to drum up support for relocation.
“It’s quite clear that the NBA no longer seems to want to honor the contracts they sign with cities,” Ceis said. “So we’ll have to have a federal court enforce that. If Mr. Stern thinks this lease is for sale, that’s not the case.”
McOmber suggested Stern is trying to drive an irreparable wedge between the team and city.
“It’s completely inappropriate for Mr. Stern to be revealing conversations between lawyers, period,” McOmber said. “Any offer that has been made was completely inadequate to cover the loss and damages as a result of losing the Seattle Sonics. This is apparently some collusion by David Stern and Clay Bennett to hijack this team and take them to Oklahoma City. They have a lease until 2010 and we are going to hold them to that lease. We have every intention on doing that.”
“
August 25th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Nice summary of some of Nickels and Seattle Cities quotes speedcat.
Sad… he made a shortsighted decision to get some big $$$$ in the short-term but in the porcess lost a very valuable city asset - worth far more than 45 or even 70 million IMO.
I will always believe Nickels and city leaders caved into the bluff by clay who threatened them with “I’m leaving in 2 years not matter what.”
Clay played tough - he played hardball - Stern did the same.
Nickels proved to be out of his league.
August 25th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Myk - - - -Only time will tell - - But when you are the only pro major team in town - you will probably be selling out for the next few years at least. If attendance goes down - heck, you just sell and move. We know the story.
SpeedCat - thanks for the reminder of what lying f**heads they are.
Baker is right. We may not like them (Nickels & gang) and certainly don’t trust them - but, they are who we are currently in bed with to bring the NBA back to Seattle.
So vote accordingly - or - as they say “love the one your with”.
Not a choice I like, but, one we need to currently work with.
August 26th, 2008 at 8:32 am
Myk - - - -Only time will tell - - But when you are the only pro major team in town - you will probably be selling out for the next few years at least. If attendance goes down - heck, you just sell and move. We know the story.
- Utah has been sucessful for 20 years and still isn’t a team that can compete (probably will need to trade Boozer next year) with a big payroll. San Antonio is the best team of the last 10 years and has needed a new stadium twice. Memphis is a complete failure…Sacramento is now having problems. This is all an issue with the bussiness model pricing out these smaller markets. Stern can’t have big city payrolls and small city venues.
It a theory that works much better in theory then in practice.
August 30th, 2008 at 1:14 am
How I feel & simply said - -
Thourghly Duped & Brokenhearted by so many . . .. .Politicians, PBC, Schultz, Stern, NBA, etc.
Perhaps, the worst part for me is the reality that “justice” always seems to have a price tag. And, the saddest part is the lesson learned for me and future fans - - We don’t matter at all.
So make sure you keep that in mind when you support any professional team. Support & cheer accordingly. Protect your heart & soul. Always remember, It’s only about the money.
Yes, I will vote & drink my coffee accordingly.
To all of us believers who fought with our hearts & souls -
I wish all of you all the Best !!