Momentum …
Posted on Friday, October 24th, 2008 at 7:15 am by Brian Robinson
The front page of the Seattle P-I today
So I have pretty much told you all about the funding package and the fact that the city had put it all together and was starting to circulate it. That is no suprise.
What is suprising is the comments from Stern. I will say freely that I was unaware that Ballmer had been in contact with the Commissioner’s office. GOOD FOR YOU, SB!!!! We have given that guy a lot of flack lately simply because he offered up $400M+ to buy the team and remodel Key Arena. We wanted more. We wanted his name in the paper. We wanted him to pursue it.
Guess what? It looks like he is pursuing it.
The change in tone from the NBA is palpable. I chatted via e-mail with a senior NBA exec last week and was pleasantly suprised that it was a pretty friendly exchange. At one point he said basically, “We appreciate you being a fan and look forward to you guys getting a new team someday.” There was no promise, it was completely just a cordial, chat and a nice comment, but a 180 from the defensive, “I cannot talk about that subject due to the ongoing litigation” we’ve had over the past year.
Three weeks ago I was feeling pretty glum about the city’s chances of getting this done. Suddenly it is really starting to gain momentum in more places than just the paper. People are talking about it. The stories are getting written, and I feel like this is very likely.
What a process. I cannot believe I will be three years into this mess pretty soon and there is no chance of having a team by then. If I can participate in some way getting this passed in legislature then hopefully I can sit back and let the big boys negotiate for a franchise. …
October 24th, 2008 at 7:37 am
Yes! Look forward to that relaxation!
October 24th, 2008 at 8:07 am
Are KD and Green restricted FA’s after next year??
October 24th, 2008 at 8:59 am
KD and Green are eligible to be restricted FA’s after their second and third years only if the team elects not to pick up the options in their contract.
There is also a fourth year option and after their fourth year they would be eligible for unrestricted free agency.
Good to hear that there is momentum building. I’m surprised about the tenor of the NBA, Stern especially, but looking at the economy, having our TV market definitely would help the league out instead of say Memphis or Charlotte.
Did anyone watch the Bobcats vs Lakers game last night on TNT?
Believe it or not the Thunder and Lakers are on tonite on ESPN.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:05 am
I gotta admit….I was uninterested in this nba season back in the summer around the time we lost the sonics, but now I have to watch NBA Games that the season is upon us…i’m a huge basketball fan and nba fan, and i know that we will have a team in a few years once again
October 24th, 2008 at 10:06 am
I have been trying to stick to my original stance of “No NBA for me”, but the closer the season gets, the harder it is. I love the game, and no matter who runs (ruins..David Stern) the league I still enjoy the game. So needless to say for me, I don’t know how much longer I can hold out. I won’t jump on anybody’s bandwagon, I’m still a Sonics fan for life, and will only enjoy the game until we get a Sonics team back.
That’s great news that Ballmer has been in contact with Stern. I wish there had been a way to get a deal done before they left, but if I have to wait until 2010, 2011 I’ll wait.
If we need a showing in Olympia to show that fans still care, count me in when the time comes.
October 24th, 2008 at 11:54 am
the story is like so many stories written about the NBA this time of year, a catch-up story. here is where we are, this is how we got here, all wrapped up pretty well.
I prefer to hammer the fact that the tax they are talking about is collected in Seattle, yes, but it is spent on a state building, the Convention Center.
Statium and Exhibition money will be spent on.. stadiums and exhibition centers. Not schools, not Pike Place market, not some other thing.
Pike Place could have a shot at the 4Culture money, but not the money pooled into Stadiums and Exhibition accounts.
I wished there was more on the what the financials look like as a result of the 75 million. It looks like they are just switching a hose full of money from one thing to another. Both of those things have a return on that investment. 25 million in B&O tax over 10 years just from the Sonics living and breathing here, for one.
Still, they covered the highlights, made the point that outsiders should keep their noses out of it, since they do not want to pay for what is go8ing on, they shouldn’t have a say in it (wRong Sims, this means YOU).
October 24th, 2008 at 11:59 am
Crazy couple of days… Yesterday my opinion of the plan hit an all time low. Now this. Ballmer talking to Stern is a great indicator that the city does indeed want to go through with the pursuit of a team instead of a flat out cash grab. The eternal roller coaster ride continues…
October 24th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
i pretty much hate almost everyone on the P-I sound off board.
everyone over there is bitching that we don’t need the NBA back and we shouldn’t pay for a sports arena. These people don’t understand that this isn’t a plan to build “Sonics Arena.” This is a plan to rennovate Key Arena. an arena that houses concerts, conventions, wrestling events, that skate demo thing they got coming up. plus Seattle Center as a whole. people hear “tax money” and immediately flip their sh-t.
If Key Arena wasn’t there, where would Neil Diamond have played a few weeks ago? Where would WWE perform? Where would this upcoming skate demo be? Answer; Tacoma Dome.
You don’t want to fix the Key? Then move to Tacoma. Just don’t come to Seattle and stay in our hotels because i don’t want to hear you b-tch about the taxes.
and i refuse to sign up for the p-u sound off so if someone has an account and wants to steal points from my rant, feel free.
October 24th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
changed my mind, i’m not done.
they all want to fix the market, fix pike place, fix the market. a rennovated key arena, especially with a basketball team in place, would generate much more revenue for the city than the market would.
and who had that link about how the funds COULD NOT go to schools? can they post that over at the p-u?
October 24th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
TB- don’t even read those blogs at the PI site…I stopped along time ago because you get the totally anti-sports crowd making stupid comments!!
Brian~ thanks for all the updates and I am feeling some hope coming back after reading some of the latest news. : ) Someday I will be lovin my Supes again!
October 24th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Hey Brian-
Good news today on the Ballmer/Stern/Ceis front, and i’m hoping that the new funding proposal gains momentum in the legislature this year. Here is my question - what teams are the most likely to become available in the next year or two? I’m guessing the likes of Charlotte, Sacramento, and Milwaukee might be come available, but I have no clue what their leases look like, their ownership status, etc.
It’d be cool if you could speak a little about this on KJR today.
Keep hope alive!
October 24th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
My two hopes about this long shot of a replacement team (Yeah, I’m skeptical and keeping my ‘believe it when I see it’ stance. We’ve all seen what “talk” is worth.):
1) Many teams become available so that Ballmer has a choice.
2) Whatever teams come available do so because they are not wanted. I hate to have us STOOP (yeah, fits don’t it) to the level of the OKC owners and fans.
Of course, neither will happen.
October 24th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
I actually haven’t had a problem not caring about the NBA. It’s almost surprising to me that I don’t care. I would for sure be supportive of the Sonics coming back though and I would become “fully invested” again. Thanks for the great news Brian.
October 24th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Here’s one to send FU sideways…
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketball/384793_media24.html
David Stern weighed in on the situation in Seattle and how fans should deal with their loss.
Stern suggested the Portland Trail Blazers will try to attract former Sonics fans.
“Well, obviously I think that Portland is going to be vying for the affection of fans in an adjacent state,” he said. “We understand the fans and their anger, frustration, depression.”
And then he offered a terse invitation to keep watching games.
“You know, we have something over 900 games available on NBA League Pass, either on cable or satellite, and potentially broadband and NBA TV where we have four games a week,” he said. “So there’s a lot out there in terms of content and a lot of an ability to follow our league. If they are so inclined, then we certainly invite them and welcome them.”
ESPN analyst Jeff Van Gundy expressed sympathy with the Seattle situation.
“I think it’s one of the NBA tragedies that there’s no team in Seattle,” he said. “Every time you went into (KeyArena) it was loud. When they had the great teams, it was good to compete against them. To me, Nate McMillan always stands out. For him to say not to take his retired jersey to Oklahoma City was tremendous. But if I was a Seattle fan, I would latch on to the Portland Trail Blazers.”
October 24th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Guys - Today Steve P. sent out an e-mail from SaveOurSonics that goes a long way towards endorsing Dino Rossi.
I guess I just have to disclose to my friends here that this statement was not something that I reviewed or approved. I think I have been very clear on my position with regards to the Governors race. I do not agree that now is the time to continue to point fingers or be divisive when we have a simple and easy plan in front of us. Whoever wins the governors race we need to be prepared to advocate for our plan in a non-partisan manner.
I feel bad airing differences of opinion in this public forum. I do however not want my name associated with that last letter.
Brian
October 24th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Has the email been published anywhere?
October 24th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
I agree with you Brian. Finally some positive news coming out….the last thing we need is to turn it negative by jumping into the political arena in this matter.
October 24th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Well, at least the group who is acting as the Sonics fans advocate is all on the same page and has their ship together….just another chink in the armor. Not trying to be a pain but to me this really puts a bad face on SOS. How can the two heads of SOS disagree but one still puts out a public stance on behalf of SOS?
And I guess dbf is right. If David says I should lemming-up I guess that’s what I have to do. He is god after all. He just proved my point that they don’t care about us as long as we latch on somewhere else.
October 24th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Maybe Brian and Steve should communicate more, and maybe a policy on communication.
Groups have rules, otherwise you are familiar strangers.
October 24th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
John Moag, the NBA’s point man on the King’s new arena, said the NBA has spent “millions” on the effort so far and expect to produce a plan within 90 days to build a new Kings arena at the state fairgrounds.
http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/1332839.html
October 24th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
You know I’m strongly considering banning fedup. If you don’t like anything we do, anything about the situation, and you’re just here to bitch and moan and blame other people then you should move on. Go find a celebrity gossip site to post your negativity on.
Why should I have to deal with you criticizing me all day when it is not PC of me to tell you that you provide nothing of interest to people here.
Steve and I had a disagreement. It happens. Part of the reason I prefer keeping information tight rather than sharing.
October 24th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
I can’t wait for Moag to finish in Sacramento one way or another. he is an incredible guy to get involved here and I have heard nothing but compliments to his actions down there. If a deal miraculously gets done it will be because of him.
There are some thoughts that he could have a small conflict of interest in the Seattle situation due to some prior work he’s done here, but that only mattered in the highly contested PBC situation. Working towards a solution he would probably be able to improve upon the key Arena model we already have in place.
A plan is great, however they still need an investor to bankroll that plan. It is a real uphill road they face down there.
October 24th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
BR, I’ve criticized the airplane banner (not you), the people jumping to other teams (not you that I know of), and the SOS-Gov endorsement thing today (half of you).
That ain’t “criticizing you all day”. If that’s what it takes to crack you then sorry.
However, it is all valid criticism, I’m not the only one to comment on any of those issues, and frankly, I’m right. The banner didn’t score, the people jumping is sad, and the endorsement thing is very “right hand don’t know what the left hand is doing”. Don’t you agree? Whats wrong with calling it as it is?
For what its worth, if you are going to ban people who “provide nothing of interest”, don’t “like anything we do”, don’t like “anything about the situation”, are “here to bitch and moan”, and here to “blame other people” then you’ll be banning many.
Don’t bother banning me. I’ll not speak again and this can be the land of rainbows and sunshine. Off to TMZ…
October 24th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/2008-10-24-1561273467_x.htm
BR in USAToday today, good article as usual by AP writer Tim Booth.
October 24th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Here’s a few more comments from Stern, with a more positive spin from a different news source:
http://www.mynorthwest.com/?nid=11&sid=98745
October 24th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Thank you for the updates Brian. I really do appreciate it.
October 24th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
BR - great for you for sticking with this thing through thick and thin. Your perserverance and positive attitude has been simply amazing. Our should I say, “willingness to not lose”.
Very happy with today’s news.
DT, send me an email and I’ll send you the email that Steve sent out. It was pretty partisan if you ask me. Bummer, because SOS was steadfastly non partisan until now. Bad timing, but I think BR can manage this storm like so many others.
October 24th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
I think I’m in the twilight zone as Calabro is calling the Laker and Blunder game.
October 24th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
What’s the latest word on whether a potential new team would be an expansion or relocated one?
Didn’t the agreement with Clay require that the new team be an expansion team in order for Seattle to retain old Sonics’ records etc.?
October 24th, 2008 at 7:59 pm
Damn right, Phenom, Calabro is killing me! I promised I wasn’t going to do this to myself, f’n-a!
October 24th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
I think I’m in the twilight zone as Calabro is calling the Laker and Blunder game.
- Ya no kidding…i havent said much about the jersey or team name cause i sort of felt like that was just a straw that people are grasping on to take out their anger. But seriously…are they wearing high school jersies?? i would be embaressed to wear that as an nba player
October 24th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
And i cant believe there would be talk to ban Fed Up when Clint has been allowed to troll for the last three months.
October 24th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Watching Bynum destroy the Sonics’ big men makes me feel a little bit better about everything.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
I think watching this game tonight is actually going to help me finally move on. This strange team in blue is not the same team I once cheered for.
For what its worth, if you are going to ban people who “provide nothing of interest”, don’t “like anything we do”, don’t like “anything about the situation”, are “here to bitch and moan”, and here to “blame other people” then you’ll be banning many.
Don’t bother banning me. I’ll not speak again and this can be the land of rainbows and sunshine.
Don’t forget the lollipops. But you’re right, I wouldn’t score very high on that exam either.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Thanks Brian for all of your tireless work. This site is critical to all of us who want to be able to root for Sonic basketball again. Hearing Calabro do this game tonight is just crushing…
Please continue to help people remain focused and informed on how to put their positive weight into the relevant leverage issues.
We ALL want to see Stern hand that trophy over here in Seattle someday.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
SOS being an issue based group comingout and supporting a candidate, when both candidates would likely support your issue, is dumb to the future beyond election day.
If Rossi loses then you did not help your issue, and possibly hurt your groups position with Gregoire’s party that control the legislature.
Dumb.
October 24th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
the OKC sucks and their uniforms look ridiculous
October 24th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
Is this therapy for Calabro?? I hope he goes on KJR to talk about this and the new developments.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
NBA commissioner David Stern will visit Oklahoma City on Wednesday for the Thunder’s first game in their new home.
Maybe Pinto will interview Stern and in 5 years U tube will have it up showing how he USED to love OKC!!!!
October 24th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Thanks for your update BR. I like your pragmatic approach.
Regarding Fed Up: The thing that bugs me about some of the complainers is that they consistently have unreasonable expectations of others and don’t deliver anything themselves.
I still hate Stern but am back to being an NBA fan. I just watched the Lakers pound the Blunder. The Blunder are shooting like sh*t.
October 24th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Speedy, I fired one off to your yahoo addy.
October 25th, 2008 at 3:44 am
Thanks for the good news Brian…. finally. I still haven’t given up on the idea of expansion. I don’t see any of the owners of the iffy franchises willing to sell right now except for Heisley and Stern has made it clear that he needs to look for a local ownership group to step up before skipping town. Look, all the same reasons that it didn’t make sense for Charlotte to build a new arena and expand are applicable here, but they went and did it anyway. Unlike Robert Johnson, I expect Ballmer to be a hands on owner, knowledgeable about all facets of the business and hiring employees on the merits rather than using local celebrity ties as a draw.
October 25th, 2008 at 5:31 am
Ya’ll see Ridnour blowin up for the Bucks? Last night Frodo even backed up his teammate by furiously pushing Hinrich aside, before being restrained. Luke is so much better than Watson and will prove his worth during this dark season.
October 25th, 2008 at 8:01 am
I think it is great to just hear positive news. We still have a long road to go but I think the conversation that needs to be going on between all parties is the conversation we are seeing. We just need to all stay positive.
October 25th, 2008 at 8:28 am
It would be easy to be positive if we had a more detailed set of facts, not too much more than is simply out there, to make a simple case to the 99% of the people that have opinions similar to the emotional NO’s on the PU Soubd Off.
Few of those people made an argument that involved facts. I know that most of THOSE people are NEVER going to say yes. Being able to message back talking points, facts, even when the other side does not agree, makes your argument stronger, and theirs appearing as it is, emotional.
Maybe a lobbyist or PR person getting paid to do this could do this, for what they are getting paid for, it is called Public Relations.
Go through the sound off, group the actual arguments, including the ones based on wrong informmation (like where the many can actually get spent). Rank the arguments by strength on their merrits. Bullet point fact based responses.
Then make a short list of the points you prefer to push, how many jobs, revenue impact on Seattle businesses.
The newspaper story yesterday was a good start.
October 25th, 2008 at 10:51 am
My question is this, I like the idea of this renovation but what about Frank Chopp and the rest of the clowns in Olympia? I still feel likely there still going to play that same game again in voting against this proposal! What makes it going to be different this time? I don’t see this happening again. Please convince me, anyone!
October 25th, 2008 at 10:53 am
NY Times article about Sonics-Thunder
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/26/magazine/26NBA-t.html?hp
October 25th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Fed-UP thinks were all sellouts. He’s the only one who is a true Sonic fan.
October 25th, 2008 at 10:57 am
*we’re
October 25th, 2008 at 11:22 am
Don’t bother with the nattering nabobs of negativity on the P-U.
Most of them only developed opposable thumbs in the last generation or so, so the fact that they’ve learned to type so quickly is a positive, I guess.
I got home last last night from a party and turned on the TV to catch the final few minutes of the LAL-OKC game …
1) The Thunder unis are beyond embarrassingly fugly. I’ve seen rec leagues teams with better looking duds. It looks like the generic team unis one might pick on NBA Live.
2) Holy crap does that team suck-diddly-uck. A laughable collection of mismatched yet redundant parts (Wilkins AND Desmond Mason? Ridiculous … both are 8th men at best). I will give AK props that he may be right that Jeff Green has no NBA position.
If they had a vet PG to pull it all together they might be almost a .500 team, but they don’t. At best a 27-30 win team. Not that I particularly care, but there ya go.
October 25th, 2008 at 11:22 am
Hey Phenom, could you can the Luke vs Earl crap? Really, what’s the point anymore? Besides, the Bucks & Thunder are both going to suck, so which one has a better point guard? Whoop-dee-doo!
October 25th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
The PU people are a representation of a small and vocal segment of a sub-culture. Sadly, it looks like those people not only have thumbs but are allowed to vote, and elect people like them.
It doesn’t have to be overly complicated messages, but they do need to be expressed in public on a regular basis.
What is the good beyong possibly getting an NBA team?
The Blunder does have a vet pg, it is the Earl show.
Dick is right, what does the debate over two average, at best, pg’s?
I can thing of 3 teams that could move here that have better pg’s, or will be better in 2 years.
October 25th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
After watching his play last night, I want Jeff Green back!
KD & Green are going to be fierce in 3-5 years.
And for anyone who may be interested in what could have beens, below is an ebay auction for KD’s Seattle PEs for this year. Its just sad, but then Seattle under Nickels’ rule doesn’t deserve him anyway…
http://cgi.ebay.com/Nike-Air-Blue-Chip-X-B-Men-Basketball-Shoes-Sz-11-5_W0QQitemZ110302496919QQcmdZViewItem
October 25th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
I love that Theil called them the OKC Plunder.
October 25th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Some day there will be a Seattle Center presentation, right?
http://seattlecenterarenareboot.blogspot.com/2008/10/king-county-projects-financing-task.html
October 25th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/26/magazine/26NBA-t.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&hp
This Times article is absurd. The NY Times should be ashamed that such a slanted and inaccurate story could be published.
October 25th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
I enjoyed the Times article. Yes, there were some bad things said about Seattle (some were true), and some inaccuracies, and a good deal of stuff left out of the story, but I’ve developed a thick skin with relation to the national press anymore. What’s done is done, and how people interpret it now is not so meaningful to me.
I found the background on Bennett and OKC to be fascinating. It explains a lot that did not previously add up for me. I will always distrust that man, but at least I understand him a bit more.
I think the article was well researched and contained a lot of new information. The quotes and background on Stern and Cornett were telling. If anything, getting a 5 pager in the NYT on this story is pretty amazing and shows that we’re not as lost as some might think out here in the PNW.
October 25th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Pactrick said:
“My question is this, I like the idea of this renovation but what about Frank Chopp and the rest of the clowns in Olympia? I still feel likely there still going to play that same game again in voting against this proposal! What makes it going to be different this time? I don’t see this happening again. Please convince me, anyone!”
My sentiments exactly.
October 25th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
I got bored reading the nytimes story, a page into it I stopped.
I just do not care about Bennett.
BTW, close to 300 pounds? He is close, he is on the far side of that line. Lester is right, in person Bennett is a big guy, and not in an NFL way.
October 25th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
One fact revealed in the article makes the Bennett / Stern connection easier to understand. Bennett somewhat fits with the majority of the NBA owners club in that regard.
October 25th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
I have no basis to judge Moag’s proposal but I’d say it is still a tough uphill climb.
No sense yet what the Maloofs contribute or get or if they are ready to give up the perks of Arco’s parking and relative isolation from other retail.
NBA spending on the proposal is chicken feed compare to the bond debt they want the public to secure for their benefit. Same as with Bennett here.
October 25th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
This is third or fourth time they’ve announced that they will have something to announce in a few more months in Sacramento. They haven’t even solicited proposals from developers, much less find one to agree to somebody’s else’s plan / cut of the appreciation potential and put up the money. This is probably a year or two away from being done if it is done and 3-5 years aways from being built.
October 25th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
All they have is a conceptual plan / relationship discussions and are starting to look at finances. How much further are they really than B2? Maybe light years, maybe not really.
October 25th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
They don’t have zoning, transportation improvements done or bonds authorized or sold.
They are expecting a private developer or developers to be the last one to the party and agree to terms that put the team, city and Fairgrounds needs first and they control the process. They expect them to have billions in financing to make the arena pencil out and eventually they are going to be in a hurry to get it done.
It could happen but I doubt Moag is going to have any free time to help here in the next few years.
October 25th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
That was the most bizarre thing to be flipping through the channels and come across the Thunder/Lakers game and hear Calabro’s voice. I had to turn it up to be sure I heard right! Then I had to turn the channel cause it made me sad again that I don’t have my Sonics to watch this year.
October 25th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
If Sacramento attendance slips further (down 19% last season) and it probably will the project gets tougher.
A lockout when the CBA ends looks and could be another source of delay or failure there.
A CBA conflict gone awry might be the last act in the Stern regime… but probably not.
October 25th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
should be … A lockout when the CBA ends looks “likely”
Cities that want in could try to use that as an opportunity to spread the NBA player jobs around to more cities, reducing roster size and payrolls. 30 teams isn’t magical. You can shift costs and make franchise fees higher and maybe make expansion work.
Long run the biggest pile of new additional revenue is probably going to be tv money. Want more tv money? Be in more hometowns.
October 25th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
If Stern listens anyone it is his owners and then maybe TV and the players. The owners aren’t wild about expansion for selfish reason I get that. If you want expansion it is either going to be by Stern fiat as he did repeatedly before or thru pressure from TV and the players union.
October 25th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Good article. I’ve never read anything that in depth locally. I thought the 1st half of page 2 pretty well explained why the NBA is looking at towns like OKC. Sure, Stern would prefer to stay in the big markets, but cities like OKC are more easily suckered into offering up the cash cow arena/lease that the NBA can’t deny, even if it’s only on a short term basis.
October 25th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
If the 4 or 6 cities who are really serious about NBA expansion would realize the dead end they are currently at maybe they should decide to work together.
October 25th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Players could use threat of going to Europe temporarily to make a lockout costly or too costly to implement to get some terms in next CBA they want and I’d think more jobs should be a goal if they were rigorous.
October 25th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
A CBA talk induced lockout in 2-3 years might be an excellent opportunity for cities wanting franchises to form a rival league and scoop up players or even casually talk about it as a bargaining chip to get Stern to be more receptive to expansion. Longshot for sure but would be fun to see folks play rough with Stern.
There might be TV networks who’d want to get in on that action if it was done right.
October 25th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
I think the ground has shifted under the NBA, the Kings. Just as the Bobcats are not in the market to sell because it is a buyer’s market, so has fallen the market for nearly every otherinvestment. The more complex and elaborate, the more risk is shared and accepted in greater quantity. When underwriters need a government bailout the risks they use to absorb become a tougher sell.
The Kings situation may fall of its own weight. Maybe this is what the NBA bubble economy looks like when it bursts.
The little towns they run to run out of initial excitement and willful spending. They are outgrowing the markets they are chasing, wanting to combine them with buildings beyond the means of half of the markets they are in right now.
Remodeling Key Arena vs what they are doing with the Kings.
October 25th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
I find the subject of Coz’s email to be quite interesting. Earlier tonight, I wrote Speedcat after reading the email, telling him I understood why Brian was pissed. But the more I think about it it, the more I can see Coz’s point.
The consistant message to Olympia in late winter/early spring was, support us now or else you’ll feel our vote come November. Well now it’s put up or shut up time. If we don’t back up our talk now, our voice will have far less meaning/consideration in the future. I still understand Brian’s POV but I also think Coz has a valid point.
October 25th, 2008 at 11:23 pm
or, you tell each if them that you are going to issue a get out the vote message and ask both candidates to provide a declaration of support to quote in your message.
You get both to affirm support. The message reminds people of the not so distant past, who was involved, and what the result was.
You get support positions by both, and still get to remind people who dropped the ball.
Plausible deniability.
Endorsing somebody invites more risk with little measurable gain.
October 25th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
I still am in belief that Stern is a bold face liar and will use his power and Seattle for his grandeous plan for the NBA.
My bet is that he uses this recent talks with Ballmer to pressure other cities (e.g. Sacramento, Milwaukee…etc) as leverage. His is a manipulator, a liar and downright evil.
October 26th, 2008 at 12:37 am
Endorsing somebody invites more risk with little measurable gain.
Possibly, but I don’t really agree in this case. A relatively small group of fans is probably not going to have any effect on Gregoire’s position towards the funding proposal. But they might be able to effect whether or not her position will be heard.
October 26th, 2008 at 12:41 am
or, you tell each if them that you are going to issue a get out the vote message and ask both cand i dates to provide a declaration of support to quote in your message.
Here’s an excerpt from the email:
Save Our Sonics is not a political action committee. We do not spend money advocating for or against any cand i date for elected office, or endorse any cand i dates, but we do want our members to be well informed when they cast their votes. We have extended an invitation to both cand i dates for Governor to submit a statement of support to our group. To date only one has responded and that statement is included below.
October 26th, 2008 at 4:39 am
“My bet is that he uses this recent talks with Ballmer to pressure other cities (e.g. Sacramento, Milwaukee…etc) as leverage. His is a manipulator, a liar and downright evil.”
That’s probably exactly what he’s doing.
nbadraft.net supporting our cause!!
http://www.nbadraft.net/2008-09nbapreviewnorthwest.htm
“The Seattle Sonics are just a memory, and the Oklahoma City Thunder are now a reality. Clay Bennett lied and conned his way into putting the 1979 NBA Champions into his hometown, Oklahoma City,
Outside of Oklahoma City, the only people who should be happy about the move of a once proud Seattle franchise are the Charlotte Bobcats. With the Thunder coming into existence, the Bobcats now have the second worst team name, logo and color scheme in the NBA.
Last year, the Thunder Sonics compiled a measly 20 wins, good for worst record in the NBA. New GM Sam Presti made a number of moves to get younger and clear cap, and the Sonics certainly felt the effects of the rebuilding effort in the loss column. For Sonics fans, it was a true nightmare scenario. Seatte fans watched helplessly as their owner ruthlessly went forward with the move to Oklahoma City, while also knowing that this was the last Sonics team they would be able to watch.
In lieu of the move, the United States geographical governing body will deem Oklahoma as part of the Northwest region, in order to agree with the NBA alignment structure.
Everything about the Thunder is silly… Their name, their uniforms, their logo… and the fact that they’re in the Northwest division. NBA fans will be reminded of Seattle’s relocation to Oklahoma everyday when they read the standings. Try telling residents of Seattle and Portland that the dry, arid climate of Oklahoma is in agreement with typical Northwest weather.”
October 26th, 2008 at 9:27 am
B-Rob for president.
Feels like the tides are turning back in our direction…could this signal the beginning of the end of the downward spiral of the Seattle sports scene at last?
October 26th, 2008 at 10:17 am
What Coz email is everyone talking about?
October 26th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
I don’t really see how electing Rossi is going to ’save the Sonics.’ No thanks.
October 26th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
We have extended an invitation to both cand i dates for Governor to submit a statement of support to our group. To date only one has responded and that statement is included below.
No proper communcation with the Governors office was provided to give here a chance for her own statement.
Steve reached out in his own way, but he’s a very active member of the republican party who was able to communicate directly on that side. In his request for a statement from the governor he went to all the wrong places even while I was talking to her people. I could have, and in fact will get a statement from the Gov who I will see tomorrow night but to say she declined a chance to make her own statement when basically a low level person was cold called and asked for one with no background is not quite reflective of the situation.
I have always been the one in contact with the Dems in legialture. Steve is just too recognizable on the republican side for that. She’s supportive. Always has been.
October 26th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
Thanks to both Brian and Coz for your work here, though.
On the other side of the planet, it’s tough to get a feel for the political environment. You’ve both certainly helped get across the obstacles and the next steps, even if your viewpoints might currently differ from each other a little. Keep up the good work!
October 26th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
The NBA and Cal Expo expect to produce a plan within 90 days to build a new Kings arena at the state fairgrounds, an NBA consultant said Tuesday.
“Representatives of the league and Cal Expo have spent five months working on a conceptual blueprint for the revamping of Cal Expo into a “village” with a modern fairgrounds, arena, housing, office, entertainment and retail uses.
Now the NBA will commission a study to examine the plan and tweak it so that it’s financially feasible.”
A
October 26th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
“The NBA and Cal Expo expect to produce a plan within 90 days to build a new Kings arena at the state fairgrounds, an NBA consultant said Tuesday.
Representatives of the league and Cal Expo have spent five months working on a conceptual blueprint for the revamping of Cal Expo into a “village” with a modern fairgrounds, arena, housing, office, entertainment and retail uses.
Now the NBA will commission a study to examine the plan and tweak it so that it’s financially feasible.”
A study? How truly Seattle like. Let’s form a committee so we can talk about it further.
October 26th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Hey Crow, thanks for the insight & info - good posts.
‘Sup, Eric E. Thanks for sharing that article.
I am wearing a beer keg hat and huge red sunglasses ala Elton John. I am going to be The Beer Pimp for Halloween. I just need a hookah bong, some colored ridiculous platform shoes, and some bell bottoms and a right good buzz to flesh this thing out (wait, already did that last part).
No, I am not gay.
But this year is going to be fun.
October 26th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sonics/2008311460_nba26.html
Too bad for Isiah Thomas, not that I like the guy, but he’s really going downhill. Does anyone think he’ll ever hold a major position in the NBA again? If you do, please explain why.
“Still, he was retained by the organization as an adviser and consultant.” WTF were they thinking? But then again, they should have fired him long ago, or better yet, not hired him to begin with. The mere fact they hired him as adviser means the Knicks are still doomed to fail for years to come.
October 26th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
OK, I have officially changed my fave new site from http://www.benditlikebennett.com to the Modern Drunkard Magazine (online). Here’s a typical example (freakin’ hilarious as always):
http://www.moderndrunkardmagazine.com/issues/54/54_10_Best_Things.html
Git yer buzz on!
October 27th, 2008 at 12:52 am
Thanks Speedcat.
Expansion is the other task beyond the arena unless unexpected events make an existing team available in the short-term.
It is probably cut n dried Stern’s whim but if you wanted to apply pressure it should be some combo of the cities, players union and TV doing so, gently or forcefully.
October 27th, 2008 at 7:55 am
This just made laugh!! The Thunder’s 5 major sponsors are all the companies that the Owners of the team own. They could not get anyone outside the ownership group to be a major sponsor? I predict in one year that the Ford Center will becomethe Chesapeake Energy Arena. I know we need to focus on getting our Sonics back playing again and forget the Thunder but I really am interested in where things will be in OKC in about 5 years with there new team!
http://www.nba.com/thunder/#/news/archive/article_partners081026
October 27th, 2008 at 8:56 am
I’ve always had a philosophy of not looking back and dwelling on anything negative since you can’t change it. Live in the moment and plan for tomorrow.
With that said from everything I see around these days it could end up being a blessing in disguise when thinking about the longterm. If Bennett was forced to stay in Seattle there would have been such a negative shadow cast that I wonder how much enjoyment there would have been and the constant questions would have dogged the team itself.
All signs, even though it will take time, point to a return of the NBA to Seattle. In the meantime I read where while Stern says that almost half the teams are profitable, one official counters that and says at best 5-7 teams are in the black with the overwhelming majority bleeding red ink.
The economy has forced more than a few teams to lay off employees, and in large numbers. Charlotte for instance laid off something like 40 people, have no advertising budget, contribute bare bones to the community, and live on a shoestring. More will follow as attendance drops off signifigantly this season. I predict we’ll be reading more negative stories about teams in trouble from around the league as it progresses.
Taking the time to get it right, renovate the Key, and then putting the right formula in place for a strong local ownership group in a few years will put Seattle in a position where the league will be knocking on your door wanting in as teams begin to lose more and more.
Mark Cuban said around the time of the relocation vote that he would love to have Steve Balmer invloved since he has so much money. That’s basically what it’s all about to the owners. How long until they look at the relocation or expansion fee to help their own bottom line, even if it’s just a one time influx of cash?
This probably sounds crazy, but since the team left I’ve had a feeling that getting out for a while and watching the huge problems build up within the NBA might serve the city in the long run and when the time is right whatever team returns is going to be a stronger franchise than before.
On one negative item, in the NY Post article I was quite dissapointed in the Nick Collison quote where he talked about the people of the city not caring enough about the team. That caught me off guard.
October 27th, 2008 at 9:20 am
Sonicsman, whenever I would bring that up, smaller market = less diverse business community, I was told by “them” that the owners and their companies have planty if money and it will not be a problem.
They call it the Ford Center, that is the Oklahoma are Ford dealers, not the Ford Motor Company.
How much are the owners going to dump into the Blunder without outside Corp support?
October 27th, 2008 at 9:59 am
How much are the owners going to dump into the Blunder without outside Corp support?
- Well look at all the money they saved on uniforms…
October 27th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
I sent this to the NY Times in response to their article:
Oklahoma City in 2008 may be perfect for a new NBA city as “a smaller city on the rise.” Seattle was once that city. When the Supersonics arrived in 1967, they were the only game in town. They found their way into the city’s heart by bringing home the only major professional sports championship in Seattle history in 1979, just after their short tenure lured businessmen to bring pro football and baseball teams here. 12 years later, with the nation and the world suddenly noticing our flannel-clad truth seekers and their explosive new music sound, our geek squads knocking out superior computer programs, our transplanted east coasters peddling tasty high test coffee, and our hop-lovers crafting handmade ales, this quiet corner of the country grew loud and proud in the 1990s – and so did the Sonics, winning more games than anyone not named Michael Jordan. During their 41 years here they served as a beacon, a bellwether, and a blessed escape from dark damp winters. The seamy, seedy, greedy manner in which David Stern and the Bennett posse ripped them from the fabric of our community left a gaping wound, no matter what those who would spin it otherwise now say.
October 27th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
First Mcleldon is forced to sell his stock now this. The Sonic Curse Spreads…..Ha ha ha
http://www.faniq.com/blog/T-Boone-Pickens-165-Million-Donation-To-Oklahoma-State-Football-Is-Completely-Gone-School-In-Massive-Debt-Blog-12968
October 27th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Willingham fired…Seahawks won…somewhat positive news for the Sonics.
Perhaps like the economy things finally have hit rock bottom and is working itself back up to normal levels.
October 27th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
I never thought i’d become a Blazers fan but because of Roy and Webster and Nate…, also aldridge and oden, I think they will have an exciting team and I am going to travel down to Portland to see a few games. Now that NBA season is upon us im excited…even though there is no team in my immediate area…
October 27th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
E55 at 11:33 PM…. Right On - I totally agree.
Stern is a dishonest manipulator. I just can’t get excited about jumping into bed with Nickels and stern at this point.
Expansion is not happening. I’m not excited about partnering with Stern and Nickels to try and take another cities team away from them and their fans. This plan seems to me to be deeply hypocritical to the values that informed our original SOS cause.
I still enjoy the conversation on this site. Thanks to all of you with all your various positions.
As the NBA season approaches some of you will want the league back more than ever - I’m finding myself more apathetic than ever about trying to get a new NBA team here.
I think I’m realizing that even though I was a lifelong NBA fan Stern and the league pushed me over the edge with their corrupt and complicit role in Clay’s fraud and team hijacking. For me - it was to much - I no long want to support the league and don’t really want them back in Seattle. I respect those of you who feel differently.
Oh well….
October 27th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
gotta say i feel almost the same way as JJ, but i got mad respect for everyone here who fought to keep the team, and if a replacement team is what you want im all for supporting that. i guess because the david says i should be happy being a blazers fan i should do as he says, but i just cant, doesnt feel right never will. i love the league, but not that much. ill settle for college hoops until seattle gets the sonics back.
October 27th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
The huskies mens team should be more exciting this year, with the freshman Isaiah Thomas coming in and Brockman in his senior season. I heard Matthew Bryan-Amaning got alot better over the summer too.
October 27th, 2008 at 8:17 pm
“I never thought i’d become a Blazers fan but because of Roy and Webster and Nate…, also aldridge and oden, I think they will have an exciting team and I am going to travel down to Portland to see a few games. Now that NBA season is upon us im excited…even though there is no team in my immediate area…”
That’s the spirit!
Go Huskies Basketball!
GO BLAZERS!
October 27th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
I am concerned that the “SOS” group is not on the same page and it may be time for this group to be dissolved and Brian just push the efforts to get a new team himself. “SOS” is pointless now as the franchise is gone and I think it obviously was a group that could not keep the team here and now that they are gone there appears to be no team effort from the “SOS” group to get a new team. Lets keep the information flowing and the site running but “SOS” should step back and let guys like Ballmer and Payton do the work. “SOS” does not really seem to have a real game plan on what there role will be in bringing a team here so maybe there is no role for them. I don’t think “SOS” needs to be involved in order to get a team back so my advice would be to stay out of the efforts!! Just my opinion.