Curse the Thunder
Posted on Thursday, October 30th, 2008 at 8:20 pm by Big Chris
Curse the Thunder - check it out!
I didn’t want Brian to have all the fun this week. For the record, we (the authors/admin) of SonicsCentral.com are still all here. We’re all riding this mess out just like you. So keep up the hope!
October 30th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Here’s some NBA news for those of us that still care: The 2010 NBA All-Star will be in Dallas—At the new Cowboys stadium. Not at the “world class facility” American Airlines Center where the Mavericks play. Cuban: “Hey David, no hard feelings, but I to vote my conscience regarding moving the Sonics.” Stern: “No problem Mark, I was actually considering bringing the All Star game to Dallas in the near future.” What a major tool.
October 30th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Did you get that link from me, Chris?
I know, I pulled it from here, from the other thread.
I thought about sending it more widely, but felt like it was more of a joke than anything. I don’t really feel that much rancor for the OKC fans. I don’t see them as actually holding any blame in this travesty.
Moreover, it’s time to move on from the travesty. Let’s focus on getting a new team!
Now y’all know I’ve been very vocally against “stealing” a team from another loving fan group in another city. And yes, I stick with those feelings, because I never want anyone to share what we’ve suffered here in Seattle.
But a friend recently reminded me that the Griz were recently from our (very) fair neighbor, Vancouver, B.C. They were stolen from our PNW neighbors, correct me if I am mistaken here. To bring them back to Seattle would put them back in the PNW, within shooting distance of their former fans in Canada.
Possibly a strange justice in there somewhere.
Regardless, I will not actively support relocating another team… but will not feel as terrible if it is the Griz that someday turns up on our doorstep.
October 30th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
PS, Chris, Brian, Scott, et al. WTF con mis derechos de Admin aqui???
I used to be able to like, do stuff I can’t do here anymore. I am persona non grata?
Are you threatening me??!! I am CORNHOLIO!!! I need TP for my bunghole!!
BUNGHOLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
October 30th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
Is this really happening? After 41 years we have no team? I never thought losing the sonics would effect me as much as it is… p.s. Great segment this morning on KJR about if this issue effects our vote for governor and who sonics fans will be voting for…there was some passionate callers..anyone here call in?
October 30th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
I completely agree that we need to stop dwelling on the past. Including the whole “If only Nickels hadn’t settled, Clay would have DEFINITELY sold back to local ownership.” I think Bennett and Co. proved just how far they’d go to get a team in OKC. Even with the market “crash” and the horrible economy, I’m not convinced they would have SURELY sold to local ownership. And besides, like I said, that’s all in the past and nothing we can do now will ever change that.
As far as stealing another cities team. Would I feel sorry for that city if that’s what ends up happening? Yeah I would. But just like some of the classy OKC fans, I’d probably feel bad for a couple weeks or maybe a month or two. And then I’d enjoy my awesome new NBA team. I would be thankful and excited if there was an NBA team in Seattle no matter where it came from.
The point about the Grizzlies originally being from the Northwest is valid. And I’m sure tons of Vancouver fans would be excited to have another team that they could attend games and enjoy. And also come to see Steve Nash when he plays.
Besides maybe the Hornets, which I highly doubt will move. I think I’d rather have the Grizzlies over any other team that was mentioned. Especially with young talents like Rudy Gay and OJ Mayo.
Regardless we need to get the (basket)ball rolling here. Our governor needs to work hard on this whomever it ends up being. And we need to pass this in the legislature. From there the local owners need to get the arena going and start pursuing a team at a feverish pace.
If we can get the NBA back by 2010 or 2011 that’ll be great. But I’ll be damned if 10 years from now we still don’t have an NBA team.
I can take solace in knowing that in about 15 years David Stern will be wandering some nursing home not remembering his own grandchildren.
October 30th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
“I can take solace in knowing that in about 15 years David Stern will be wandering some nursing home not remembering his own grandchildren.”
Nice image! Seriously!
Now, for your viewing pleasurrre, I submit:
http://tinyurl.com/5jlcem
October 31st, 2008 at 12:06 am
Griz moving by mid to late next decade the most likely fill if not by expansion.
Hornets seem quite unlikely now.
Bucks not while Sen. Kohl is alive.
Clippers and Kings have been mentioned recently. Nets not directly but in the news. Charlotte in the news but not movable for longer. Indiana have to wait and see in a few more years. Same for Minnesota.
Who knows maybe OKC rejoins this list some day.
October 31st, 2008 at 4:53 am
Memphis and the county has the opportunity to find a local buyer to match the purchase price, while “any out-of-town buyer would also have to pay off the debt service on FedExForum, a number that doesn’t dip below $100 million until 2015.” http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2008/feb/29/grizzlies-are-not-leaving/
Doesn’t sound good for a Grizz relocation, but nickles and bennett showed how lease settlements exist.
October 31st, 2008 at 4:58 am
“After the NBA lockout, attendance at Grizzlies games began to drop slightly, and the team’s owners, Orca Bay Sports and Entertainment, began to lose money. An initial sale of the team to Bill Laurie was rejected by the NBA after Laurie openly stated that he would move the team to St. Louis, Missouri. Businessman Michael Heisley then bought the team in 2000 with a promise to stay in Vancouver. However, attendance at Grizzlies’ home games was lower than expected in the 2000–01 season. Fan support increased after it was widely believed that the team would be moved before the next season. The Grizzlies and Charlotte Hornets both applied with the NBA to relocate to Memphis on the same day, March 26, 2001. The Grizzlies’ request was granted by the NBA. Memphis became the furthest city to the East among other cities of the Western teams.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memphis_Grizzlies
October 31st, 2008 at 5:04 am
“When the Charlotte Hornets relocated to New Orleans for the 2002–03 season, the NBA promised Charlotte leaders that the city would be granted an NBA expansion team for the 2004–05 season.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Bobcats
October 31st, 2008 at 7:18 am
Anyone see this? Clips to Seattle?
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-35-118/Everybody-Wants-to-Find-a-Team-to-Move-to-Seattle.html
October 31st, 2008 at 7:34 am
I’d like my earlier comment striken from the record. I thought Stern was giving payback Cuban for voting against the re-location of the Sonics thus having the All-Star game at the Cowboys stadium instead of the American Airlines Center… Don’t get me wrong Stern is still a major t**l but I caught the story at the tail end of a half hour update on KJR before I read the AP story later. No excuse but I felt I should be clear. So to summerize: Me wrong on the 2010 All-Star game. Stern still a major t**l.
October 31st, 2008 at 9:10 am
Mr. Baker has sent you a video from tvw.org, Washington State Joint Task Force Local Financing Options for King County
July 16, 2008
http://seattlecenterarenareboot.blogspot.com/2008/10/mr-baker-has-sent-you-video-from-tvworg.html
you can watch the kickoff meeting. the meeting starts about 3 and a half minutes into the video.
October 31st, 2008 at 9:32 am
Memphis and the county has the opportunity to find a local buyer to match the purchase price, while “any out-of-town buyer would also have to pay off the debt service on FedExForum, a number that doesn’t dip below $100 million until 2015.”
the question is when it could they leave, and how much above 100 million is the buyout before 2015?
I saw a scale some time ago that it reaches 115 mil a couple years before 2015.
I read at Hoopsworld, I think, last summer that they are losing 5 to 7 million a year, at some point the difference between losing money and buying out is a wash, just ask Clay.
page 20 has the note that Brian’s buddy Joel Litvin stated that the Griz have a non-relocation agreement.
What that actual agreement says is not stated.
http://leg.wa.gov/documents/joint/lfokc/2008-10-01BasketBall.pdf
October 31st, 2008 at 10:36 am
Off-topic, but the most painful part of this season will be retro nights, because Clay’s crew will don the green and gold, and very possibly that of the 79 championship team, given how he wants that “history”. #$%^&
October 31st, 2008 at 10:58 am
I’m more concerned with getting back ownership of the history and name from Clay than I am getting a team. I want that now. The team can come 20 years later for all I care.
October 31st, 2008 at 11:22 am
Mayor Sellout’s agreement makes that scenario extremely unlikely.
October 31st, 2008 at 11:31 am
I never thought about retro night. I think I would die if I saw the Blunder don the old school skyline Sonics jerseys. It might send me over the edge.
October 31st, 2008 at 12:05 pm
“The media guide makes few references to the Sonics and doesn’t mention the word “Seattle” in the records section. Yet the Thunder considers Gary Payton as its all-time leader in scoring, just as if it were the Sonics.
The guide has pictures of Gus Williams on the page describing the 1977-78 Western Conference championship season, Lenny Wilkens and Fred Brown holding up the championship trophy on the 1978-79 page and a fist-pumping Shawn Kemp on the 1995-96 page.
On page 226 are pictures of the six Sonics players whose numbers are retired, two of whom — Payton and Nate McMillan — have said they don’t want their numbers retired in Oklahoma City. There are no Sonic jerseys hanging at Ford Center.”
I am dead serious. Screw focusing on bringing in a new team. That will either happen or it won’t. And none of it is within our control. I WANT THE F’N HISTORY AND NAME BACK!!! Screw you Clay Bennett! That is not yours!!! We need to right here, right now start a campaign to get back what is rightfully ours! If we make a big enough deal about this, we can influence people who matter who can make a deal. Much easier than we can influence anything having to do with building an arena or buying a team. Somebody needs to start up a site, “RETURN SEATTLE’S HISTORY”. Besides Clay, nobody in OKC wants it anyway. They all want to pretend they have a brand new team. Seriously. This needs to be done.
Oh, and Clay Clay. GP isn’t your all time leading scorer. Chris Wilcox is.
October 31st, 2008 at 12:18 pm
If the Mayor wants to keep the history he might be able to buy it back in five years for the price of around $30 million.
October 31st, 2008 at 12:25 pm
What pisses me off more than anything is WHY THE HELL WASN’T THIS A PART OF THE TERMS TO LET CLAY OUT OF HIS LEASE?!!!!
At the time everybody involved was all like, “they didnt want to give it up and the league wants them to have it, so….” Screw that! Cleveland demanded in their letting Art Model go, that he leave behind the name and history> WHY THE F’N HELL DIDN’T WE DO THAT?!!! I’m so angry right now. I just might go down to the Portland-Jokelahoma game and punch Clay Clay in the face.
And “Husky Boy”, get a life. I saw you over on the PI saying that you’ve been to Key arena and were at the game the other night and that they didn’t compare. You are a idiot and a moron wrapped in one. Everybody knows you are in OKC. If we didn’t have your IP address, it would be obvious by your trolling anyway. You got our team. What more do you need to do to hurt us? F OFF.
October 31st, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Not that it is that important but in previous thread I noted that announced attendance was about 500 less than stated basketball capacity at Ford Ceneter. They claimed a “sellout” in paper so either they fibbed about the Ford Center true workable capacity or it changed or it wasn’t a sellout.
Daily Oklahoman reporting that there are tickets available “on all levels” for next home game (#2 ever) on Sunday. I know they want some tickets available at the time but doesn’t sound like they have all been snapped up immediately upon availability.
October 31st, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Are those Sonic’s fans still pursuing the lawsuit for monetary damages and can they add in a demand for the return of Seattle’s basketball uniforms, statistics and sole possession of banners and trophies?
October 31st, 2008 at 3:12 pm
I thought the “Curse the Thunder” was appropriate considering it is Halloween. I’ll look into your access SpeedCat.
–Big Chris
October 31st, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Daily Oklahoman reporting that there are tickets available “on all levels” for next home game (#2 ever) on Sunday. I know they want some tickets available at the time but doesn’t sound like they have all been snapped up immediately upon availability.
- That is fu(king nuts…the one area i will be most happy to be vindicated about is the whole “OKC deserves a team”…regardless of everything else, this wasn’t a vaild argument.
October 31st, 2008 at 10:24 pm
Don’t really come around much and still haven’t seen one second of NBA since the last Sonics game (and won’t be). I’m sure I’ve missed some news.
What happened to the season ticket holder case? Is something going on there or is it just another thing that will get dropped by gutless people or buried by a crooked system?
What happened with some kind of effort to make sure the Sonics season ticket holder list with priority numbers is held somewhere?
October 31st, 2008 at 10:26 pm
it was nice to see and hear Kevin Calabro broadcast the Blazers game tonight on ESPN
October 31st, 2008 at 11:20 pm
“BOO HOO Seattle”!!!!
Clay
October 31st, 2008 at 11:22 pm
“BOO HOO Clay–where did ALL my $$$ go”?!?!?! This was all yous and Stern’s idea”!!!!!
Aubrey
November 1st, 2008 at 6:52 am
I think there are going to be some real, real economic issues that prevent people from buying tickets.
Do you think there is a single real estate agent in the city of Seattle going out and buying $129 tickets to sporting events right now?
New Orleans and Oklahoma are markets I’m going to watch closely. There is a real shot(slim, but a shot) that New Orleans could be a really, really good team that people simply cannot afford to go see so instead they become the team that people sit at home and watch for free on their TV.
One just truly crazy thing is that the Hornets, if by chance they don’t meet attendance goals, could be avaialble after this year. Not 3 or 4 years down. Next year.
I don’t really want to steal a team. If I do I want it to be a 60 win team with talent that will be good for the next years to come.
November 1st, 2008 at 7:50 am
I am not to sold on the fact that we would get the Hornets but it is interesting that Shinn has yet to land a long term deal with the City of New Orleans. When Clay tried to buy the Hornets, Stern flat told Shinn to sell as the BOG is not big on Shinn and really wants him out of the picture. They are not going to allow Shinn another relocation so he is going to have to sell if does not work in the Big Easy. If Shinn was to decide to sell to Ballmer and he could get out of the lease it would be the cheapest route to go.
November 1st, 2008 at 9:30 am
my message was eaten.
Anyway, I agree with Brian.
Economic turmoil has New Orleans worried
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TRAVEL/10/24/tourism.new.orleans.ap/
November 1st, 2008 at 10:45 am
One just truly crazy thing is that the Hornets, if by chance they don’t meet attendance goals, could be avaialble after this year. Not 3 or 4 years down. Next year.
Then what? Is Shinn going to sink $150M into Key Arena? I don’t get why anyone thinks he’d look to sell at that point. He seems pretty determined to hold on to them.
November 1st, 2008 at 11:01 am
Shinn would not sink 150 million into anything, he doesn’t have it, in fact it will cost 100 million just to leave. He sold 25% of the team to a local owner that will expect to be paid if the team left.
See the problem there, he has to give up more than 100 just to move, unless he can find another local owner in another locality.
This was the OKC delema, they did not want to be the minority owner in their own town, with Shinn.
No clean get away.
Most arena solutions, including KC, will require some spiffing up, or are bound to some local interest that want a team if they can own a team, San Jose, Seattle.
The NO economy may force him to move, to sell at least 25%, and have him land in another city where he does not have control of the arena.
I think he sells at that point, if he gets to that point.
November 1st, 2008 at 11:10 am
I still think it is Memphis. There is no daylight there for the team of the revenue the city could get with a cash strapped team out of there. They can not spend the money they don’t have on talent to be a winner.
What is stunning is how many people attended Sonics game under these conditions.
November 1st, 2008 at 11:30 am
They want Shinn to sell so badly it is sick.
I’ve met George Shinn, shook his hand. Spoke to his son on the phone. They just do not fit in with the other NBA owners.
If the league had liked Shinn better they probably would have let him go to OKC. They didn’t and he went back to New Orleans.
I am really not sure how they held on to begin with. The Shinn family net worth is listed as between $100 and $120M. That isn’t even close to what it takes to run an NBA franchise. His partner in New Orleans came on after some of thsi started and in all likelyhood there is a sellback agreement.
The question is whether any of these people have held onto their money. If Shinn has $120M and it was invested in stock and southern property he is in some trouble. If he’s invested it wisely maybe nothing has changed.
Yesterday I found out about another person I know who is unemployed and may be losing their home soon. This economic storm is going to get bad. I know that we personally are stuck with a home for sale and 2 mortgages. We’ve cancelled our travel for the winter and cut way, way back on the budget. Tourism dependant cities like New Orleans, Honolulu, and others may have a really tough time. New Orleans especially I just have to feel a tremendous sympathy for. That city has been crushed and now they have two main economic drivers, construction and tourism. Both are in the complete and total crapper and only going to get worse.
November 1st, 2008 at 11:57 am
Presti’s tear it all the way down, obsession for draft picks strategy (thinking he is an expert at picking) could cost Bennett & the boys dearly with regards to ticket sales and ultimate results.
November 1st, 2008 at 1:01 pm
half of the people here could have ripped up the roster and drafted players. Presti did a good job getting picks in the Lewis exchange, until you look at what Orlando gave up to get T-Mac the last time they overpaid a second option player.
Beyond that, the Ray trade was nothing special, the suns trade absorbing Thomas was good, but the rest of it was waisted on the Spurs and Cavs trades.
He was given the second pick overall last year.
Until the results of his picks, beyond Durant, payoff the jury is out on Presti.
I do agree, the stripped down team is going to struggle to excite OKC while they struggle to win, and routinely get beat by Texas teams.
November 1st, 2008 at 1:16 pm
I do think Shinn has a buy-back clause, but as you point out, he doesn’t have the wealth to do it.
He would have to take on a local partner in another market. That is a tough sell.
Bennett forcing relocation early, and Stern giving Bemnett until 2010 to work that out locked Shinn out of OKC.
No owner has been denied relocation or been forced to sell. They market for giving out of town owners sweatheart arena deals is a little thin.
He has to make NO work or face selling, or hope some other market can provide a better arena/market/and minority owner.
Does Shinn have the 30 million relocation fee.
None of this is working in his favor.
Hopefully NO can recover and make a go of it.
November 1st, 2008 at 1:24 pm
One thing that’s not mentioned is that there probably will be a honeymoon period of a couple years where fans are excited to have a new team and buy tickets regardless of how the team does.
After that is when the shine comes off.
November 1st, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Presti might regret not selecting Love or Lopez and pairing them with Mario Chalmers, or taking Wrestbrook with Daryl Arthur or another solid big in the first or second rounds. This might have been the year to select a center with his top pick as the plunder have zero quality big men.
November 1st, 2008 at 2:46 pm
the shine may not be as shiny since they did have the Hornets there for two years. The novelty might not be the same.
OKC idea of sports may be closer to having the Sooners win almost every Saturday.
November 1st, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Presti turned Rashard Lewis into Ibaka, 20-25 next summer and probably about 15 summer 2010.ET Anything of value from that? I’d say not that much looking quickly at next 2 draft lists.
November 1st, 2008 at 3:05 pm
I don’t know about you guys. But I can’t and won’t root for a Seattle Hornets or Seattle Grizzlies. If we are allowed what is rightfully ours, and able to call whatever team that might relocate here the Seattle SuperSonics, then I’m in. Otherwise, the NBA will be eternally dead to me. Yes, it’s that big of a deal for me.
November 1st, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Stop it Crow, he’s the NBA version of Jimmy Neutron, boy genious.
If the franchise can be moved from Seattle to okc and be called “Thunder”, I do not see anybody stoppping anybody from calling any team located in Seattle the Sonics.
November 1st, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Any team could be called the Sonics. I think EJ is talking about the team history. Would the league allow a team relocated here to have a dual history or have their previous history wiped to make way for a Sonics history that wasn’t theirs? I sure don’t see that happening. The only way Seattle will get the Sonics history back is if an expansion team or the Thunder is located here within five years.
November 1st, 2008 at 3:57 pm
I had heard how New Orleans might only be able to financially support one professional sports team and of course the NFL is too great a league to be leaving. The Hornets were not meeting the attendance averages required by stern to keep their team until the end of last season during there run into the playoffs. They most likely won’t reach stern’s standards by the deadline he set as being this year’s all-star break, so the Hornets could very well be on the move sooner than later….perhaps the thunder will be gracious enough to share their team with New Orleans.
November 1st, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Per my previous comment, I guess the Thunder wouldn’t have to be here within 5 years.
November 1st, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Hey Downtown, thanks for coming back once and a while.
“After that is when the shine comes off.” Yeah, correct me if I’m wrong, but that’s pretty much what happened in Memphis?
Off Topic:
This is a time of intense hope, and equally intense anxiety. Will I live through Tuesday, or will I die first of a heart attack? Or will I simply disintegrate?
I think I need a drink to sort all this out.
November 1st, 2008 at 5:48 pm
http://www.ballerhouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/beer-tower.jpg
Ahh, now that’s better.
Yes, I was thinking the same thing you were when you looked at them beer tubes.
Buck twentyfive beer? I’m there!
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/dayart/20070327/4507030411.jpg
November 1st, 2008 at 6:16 pm
beer, my wife bought an Allagash Triple for me.
I will pop the cork in about 2 hours.
November 1st, 2008 at 6:22 pm
http://www.allagash.com/tripel.htm
Your wife is a remarkably wonderful person.
November 1st, 2008 at 8:08 pm
two weeks in a row it was Duvel in the 750ml bottle
November 3rd, 2008 at 10:54 am
I will not rest until the Thunder have more curses on it than the population of OKC.