What could have been
Posted on Wednesday, December 10th, 2008 at 12:11 pm by Brian Robinson
So over the last couple of months it has been very, very easy to point to the financial predicaments of our friends in Oklahoma (CHK and GET are rebounding of late by the way) and say “We can definatively say that we would have won if we’d held them to the lease.”
Lets look at the other side. Just imagine the slow steady death march we would be facing if we had a captive Oklahoma Sonics team here this season, 2-20, cutting costs every which way but loose, and every story marred by controversy. What would the attendance be? How much would the losses be? How would it affect the ability to someday get a deal done and the overall viability of the market here in Seattle.
Frankly I just don’t know who would break first. When I look at the situation I can honestly say it would be more horrendous than I had really imagined. I’m thinking crowds of 2,000, losses in excess of $50M. The players union would have seen their worst case scenario come true and would be bitter at everybody, the league, me, the city, you name it. The owners and players would probably be able to point at this specific market as a cause of reduction to next years salary cap. I truly think the situation would have been untenable.
Which was of course exactly the point. Facing that type of meltdown the NBA would have had no choice but to intervene and broker some type of solution. I just wonder what toll would have been taken prior to the solution? Would there be talk of disolving the team. Would Queen Anne support have wittled away with the lack of business and revenue. It is just a horrid situation to think about. It could in fact have been the death blow to the entire league that is struggling as-is.
2-20 and the best newspaper articles they can come up with revolve around the players pre-game hugs. Interest dropping quickly in that team and they are only the 24th largest revenue generator in the league THIS YEAR. It will be really, really interesting to see what happens with that franchise.
December 10th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Other good projects should be considered. Mayor Greg Nickels is eyeing part of the city’s ongoing hotel-motel tax to spruce up Seattle Center, partly in hopes of luring a new National Basketball Association team.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/editorialsopinion/2008488006_edit10taxes.html
Armchair detectives: don’t look for what is mentioned, look for what isn’t.
December 10th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
This whole mess is so depressing, is there anything we can firebomb?
December 10th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
A good reminder that Howard Shultz is the great satan in this whole affair. I’m assuming that, in Seattle, he’s not being invited to many cocktail parties these days. Is true?
BTW: RIP, Dick Vertlieb.
December 10th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Bill Simmons has a podcast with David Stern on ESPN. Checking it out right now.
December 10th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
yeah saw that, refused to check it out, ive seen and heard enough bull s**t from that pompous arrogant a******s mouth.
December 10th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Jump to 17:30 for the lies from Stern on Seattle.
December 10th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
Its a good wake up call for those who find themselve getting drawn back to the NBA, listening to Stern will remind you of the shear disgust you have for him and the league.
December 10th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
I would have loved to see the Clay Bennett Sonics fail in Seattle so badly that Bennett would have been begging Ballmer to take them off his hands.
I will never forgive Mayor McCheese for selling out.
And hey, the Suns just got interesting again…
December 10th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Jason Richardson is NOW A Phoenix Sun
Jason Richardson, Jared Dudley To PHX Suns
Raja Bell, Boris Diaw, Sean Singletary To CHA Bobcats
December 10th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
stern talks about seattle for like 5 minutes in bill simmons’ “bs report.”
http://sports.espn.go.com/stations/player?context=podcast&id=3760531
December 10th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
cant seem to get that video to work on my end, can anyone summarize some points that Stern made towards Seattle?
December 10th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
There’s no video, only audio. Here it is, for the most part:
BS: Disappointed with how it was handled, city had good fans. Ordeal set bad example for other cities, if you don’t build a new arena, you could lose your team.
DS: The fact is that everyone agreed that a new arena was necessary. Exactly how it was going to get funded was the issue.
BS: When you say everyone, is that true? The fans liked it.
DS: Everyone agreed that they needed a bigger platform over time, that it worked in the short term but in the long term they needed a new building. There was a huge attempt to build. The city voters passed a bill that said we won’t give any money because any money given has to make the same amount as treasury bill etc. and the state legislature said that the teams should cut payrolls and were not interested in making any contribution. Strangely enough, by the time the team was getting ready to leave, the city had found 75mil, asked the stae to quickly legislate another 75 and they rounded up a private investor that had another 150 and so suddenly there was 300 available for a new building but by that time it was too late. I’m not thrilled about the outcome either, I share your reservations.
BS: My one problem is that those guys seemingly bought the team with the intent to move it. It seemed like they weren’t interested in keeping the team there.
DS: That’s not what their actions, in my view, confirm at all. They spent …
BS: You investigated this?
DS: Yeah. They spent lots of money with plans and lobbying, doing all the things that the ownership group before them had done but they did even more… and it wasn’t meant to be. And in fact, the actual economic opportunity in Seattle with a new building was far larger than any other city that that team could’ve moved to.
BS: At the same time, this is a team that won the 1979 title and had really good fans and you’ve been a commissioner that has cared abou the fans more than anybody.
DS: Believe me, it’s a big loss any time you leave a city. I don’t want to be glib about it. You name the city, whether it’s Vancouver or KC-Omaha or Rochester or Syracuse or Philadelphia or… Sheboygan, you name it. If you sit back and take a longer view, you see that that’s what happens. We kept it going for a long time but we haven’t been doing so well recently.
BS: Do you see that city getting a new basketball team? Would there have to be a new stadium first?
DS: I think that as the plans develop for a new arena, I’m sure there will be, that likelihood increases. Although, I don’t know that there’s an expansion coming anytime soon. On the other hand, this economy is going to contain certain disruptions and out of those disruptions may come opportunities for some some cities, maybe Seattle will be one of those. I don’t know anything but we agree to keep Seattle in the loop and talk to people there, and we have been.
BS: By disruptions you mean a franchise potentially having to move.
…
BS: I’m still really disappointed by this Seattle thing.
DS: I’m not going to disabuse you of the notion. It wouldn’t have been our first choice and I’m not sure that anyone did a great job there.
December 10th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Speaking of the Players Assoc, are we ever going to hear about the supposed SOS/PA meeting in NY?
December 10th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
He said, “Everyone agreed that Seattle needed a new building. The city found some money but it was too late. The legislature thought we should reduce payroll. The owners did everything the previous group had done to get a new building done. It is a shame for the fans but the history has been that teams move. We continue to stay in touch with the city and if the economy tanks opportunities may come out of that for another team in Seattle.”
Thats about it. Bill Simmons doesn’t sound like he is buying it.
December 10th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
For those of you who like these things…and this might be something useful for others..
If you text a team name to 46654 (google without the e) it will return scores back for that team via text. Its actually pretty cool while traveling or out on the golf course or something (for those who don’t spend money on the web packages from phones).
Anyways…if you text Oklahoma City Thunder…it says it doesn’t recognize. If you text Seattle Sonics…you get your score…pretty funny.
December 10th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Has anyone else noticed in NewsOK.com that when you go to sports the Sooners and Cowboys are listed ahead of the Thunder? You would think a major league city would want to promote its only major league franchise. Or maybe its because the Thunder are playing at a collegite level?
December 10th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Did you say the “BS Report” featuring Herr Sternmeister???
December 10th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Yeah right Stern investigated. He knew what Bennett was up to all along. Good faith effort alright. Not.
I am glad that Bill Simmons stays on this story though.
December 10th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
Thunder just lost to Memphis at home in OKC
December 10th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
Blunder lose at home to an awful Memphis teams- right after a home to loss an awful Golden State team with everyone hurt!
Man, they are bad!
December 10th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
I really thought this was the Blunders best chance fo back-to-baqck wins.
December 10th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Oh- and Bill Simmons is the man. He really seemed to push Stern hard on this.
December 10th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Blunders chase for history updated:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/features/worstteams
They really update this quickly. Blunder on a pace for 7 wins!
December 10th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
thanks to the guy who posted a bit of the conversation between Bill Simmons and David Stern..
It looks like a relocated team is the only way we will get a team as expansion doesn’t seem likely for a while(if ever)
December 10th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Not only did they lose to Memphis, at home, but they held a 21 point lead late in the first half. This topped their franchise-best 16 point lead over the Suns in an earlier game…which they also lost.
December 10th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Stern’s comparing the Sonics to Rochester, Syracuse and Sheboygan? LAME LAME LAME
December 10th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
There next 7 games are pretty tough, all contenders. They play Washington December 27. The Wiz may have Arenas back and have two new guards after todays trade.
December 10th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
You all know this but if I may please vent a bit…..
Dave Stern is so unbelievably full of BS - what a lying bunch of garbage he gaev to Bill Simmons in the interview. Unreal. He is a disgrace - no integrity - no honesty - no humility.
Brings back all the bad memories…..
IMO - If the team had stayed here it would indeed have been tough - but I think Clay would have caved in and sold to Ballmer and once that happened everything changes. The team still sucks but there is hope and energy locally. And - KD is a star - JG is showing potential and RW is showing even more potential. Tons of salary cap room coming up - full load of #1 picks - the team has a chance to become real good real fast in 1-2 years. If they are in Seattle with Ballmer and a new arena coming up - Free Agents would be interested… who knows.
It is going to be ugly in OKC as the season moves along. The loss tonight was real bad news.
And part of this is not just PJ’s fault as he sucks as a coach - but Clay and Presti made that hire - they blew it.
December 10th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
When you’re .087, not even pre-game group hugs are going to help.
December 10th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
Stern seems to be like lots of other big shots: able to totally bullshit himself and steadfast in promoting the bullshit any time it suits him. I hate that guy.
Jeff Green does not appear to be an NBA power forward.
December 10th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
stern is like one of only 5 people on the planet that i would pay to be able to punch in the face. hes an overly pompous arrogant dip s**t. he talks out his ass on the constant. you dont need to put a mic in front of his face anymore when you interview him, just have one placed under the seat.
December 10th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
tlk …. I hear you
December 11th, 2008 at 12:01 am
I’ll say this for “if they’d still been here.”
If they’d still been here this would be the best damn fan site in the NBA. I cannot believe that we get 31 comments on this post half a season after the team has left. What a great community this site really is. I appreciate all of you.
The losses are really incredible. The league is in a shambles.
Crazy times. McHale coaching the T-Wolves and the Suns trade Diaw for J-Rich. In both cases I find out way after the fact and find myself scratching my head wondering if I care.
Those would have been two really big stories in the west if we still had a team.
December 11th, 2008 at 12:21 am
Agree, Brian. The only reason I’m even intrigued in McHale being sent back downstairs to the coach’s bench is that it has the potential to be almost as big a train wreck as the Blunder.
But yeah, not even in my most sadistic dreams did I imagine OKC going 2-21, losing last-gaspers on their home court and being booed by their fans. What do you reckon their home attendance is going to be like by New Year’s? Their record’s certainly not going to be improving dramatically between now and then.
December 11th, 2008 at 12:36 am
“they are only the 24th largest revenue generator in the league THIS YEAR.”
Where did you read that, Brian? Could you give us a link, please? And what do they expect the revenue to be over this entire season? How does that compare to last season in Seattle?
December 11th, 2008 at 12:46 am
What do you reckon their home attendance is going to be like by New Year’s?
I think their “official” attendance will be over 17,000 all year, because of season tickets. Actual people in the seats is a different story.
I wouldn’t be suprised if they lost half their season ticket holders next year- they may be the worst team ever assembled & there’s economic issues that will effect it as well (particulaly in Oklahoma).
December 11th, 2008 at 12:52 am
How does that compare to last season in Seattle?
It doesn’t matter. You’re comparing apples & oranges. This is OKC’s innagural season- this so called NBA Hotbed is near the bottom in revenue in it’s 1st 2 months of it’s 1st year. Pretty pathetic. Wait until the novelty wears off
December 11th, 2008 at 1:01 am
I like this quote from tonights article on newsok:
“This is the most miserable season I’ve ever been a part of,” said forward Nick Collison.
December 11th, 2008 at 1:07 am
Laporbo - There was a meeting with the NBPA and I think it is fair to say that we caught the league by suprise with that one. Our communication with them was solid and there was the potential for a very nice suprise out of it….but it never materialized.
We planned lots of things that didn’t happen. It was a battle in the sense of strike, counter-strike. Everytime we took an action to make some noise we would find out that Stern and company were working to silience the situation.
I have no hard feelings for the NBA. I liked them, they gave us a good lsten and wanted to help. At the end of the day the stakes got to high. When in NY I can always visit my associates on 5th Avenue, but my friends are in Harlem.
The only crack I’ll make regarding this matter is an inside joke. Hal, Billy doesn’t get off fucking with Stern at all they way you say. he may do it sometimes but he doesn’t just take the shot whenever it is there. We know which side has the power in that relationship.
I enjoy fucking with David Stern. I should probably be an NBPA representative. I’m going to send you guys a resume.
December 11th, 2008 at 1:44 am
I really hope that the Blunder are the worst team ever. What is the plan for the Blunder Trailblazers game?
December 11th, 2008 at 9:30 am
“What is the plan for the Blunder Trailblazers game?”
Why waste the money on that crap? The Seattle talent-led Trailblazers play a host of far better teams.
Who is going to see our Trailblazers play the Celts right before New Years? We can Amtrak it down together!
December 11th, 2008 at 10:07 am
Empty seats are spreading in the Thunderdome….two men enter, one man leaves!
Wilcox just dislocated his ring finger….let the Petro and Sene evaluations begin.
December 11th, 2008 at 10:20 am
They aren’t “our” Trailblazers! They may be “your” Trailblazers, but they certainly are not mine! I lived the rivalry my whole life and I will not jump on to another team especially the Trailblazers. That is like deciding to sleep with your sister after your divorce. Normal people don’t do it. Have fun on your bandwagon.
December 11th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
“That is like deciding to sleep with your sister after your divorce. Normal people don’t do it. Have fun on your bandwagon.”
Good baskebtall is good basketball. And I’ve been on the B-Roy bandwagon since we took Swahili together at UW, the Martell Webster bandwagon since watching his highlight reel high school career play out in the SP gym, the Nate Mac bandwagon since he become a reliable pg off the bench of the Sonics, and the Paul Allen bandwagon since he tried (unsuccessfully) to purchase the Sonics from the Ackerly group…
How ’bout them Seattle talent-led Blazers!? Shoot, a Webster trade and speedy potential to win some ‘chips may even trigger the possibility of LeBron arriving (which would thus credit Seattle’s Martell with an assist)!
December 11th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
When do we start the “Ban the NBA from WA. State” initiative?
Even if it’s not binding, I would still like to see it as a kick in the crotch to Stern.
December 11th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
^But in all fairness, I think that the Sonics sitution demonstrates the utter ridiculousness of fan allegience to pro sports teams.
It will most likely always be appropriate for me to show unyeilding loyalty to the UW, but just plain silly to invest any sort of allegiance in any pro sports team that can easily be ripped away (or sold away) from a city. I mean, if the Repubs destroy the Detroit bailout, how long will the Pistons be inclined to stick around in a region full of people with no recreational funds?
And in regard to Stern’s BS Report appearance, did anyone else find it sickening with the way he referenced how the current economic climate might create the opportunity for NBA-less cities (such as Seattle) to obtain existing teams from other cities? Just sickening, and yet another clear indication of the futility in fan-team loyalty in pro sports.
December 11th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
And in regard to Stern’s BS Report appearance, did anyone else find it sickening with the way he referenced how the current economic climate might create the opportunity for NBA-less cities (such as Seattle) to obtain existing teams from other cities? Just sickening, and yet another clear indication of the futility in fan-team loyalty in pro sports
- wow…something Clint and I agree on…shocking
December 11th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
David Stern pretty much closes the door on a team ever returning to Vancouver Canada
http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/2008/12/11/stern_vancouver/
December 11th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
here is a summary..
“Maybe we shouldn’t have done it there, maybe we should have only expanded into Toronto … but that was a great disappointment to me,” he said.
Stern added that he didn’t think the league could return to Vancouver.
“I don’t think we can go back,” Stern said. “I think that was a great city, and I think we just didn’t take advantage of the opportunity.”
December 11th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
David Stern, god I wanna piss in that dude’s coffee. He’s such a pompous fuck.
December 11th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Someone should start a competing pro basketball league intially utilizing 12 of the following 14 markets:
NY, CHI, SEA, CIN, SD, SF, PITT, STL, BAL, TB, KC, BUFF, Las Vegas, San Jose
NY & CHI are the only 2 cities that currently have an NBA team, but have proven they can support 2 pro teams in the same sport.
Once the NBA fails, the new league can expand into cities like LA, ATL, CLE, etc.
December 11th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
i love how david stern talks so much trash about Vancouver and Seattle but never says anything bad about other places he put teams in like Memphis…he’s got huge problems, what a bum..
Vancouver and Seattle are two of the nicest Cities in North America
December 11th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Mickael Gelabale is still a Free Agent..
http://hoopshype.com/free_agency.htm
December 11th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
“I mean, if the Repubs destroy the Detroit bailout, how long will the Pistons be inclined to stick around in a region full of people with no recreational funds?”
One has nothing to do with the other Clint. Even if they bail out the Big 3, [which isn't supported by a sizable majority of Americans BTW], that’s not going to make one iota of difference in discretionary spending in the Greater Detroit area. That money is going to prop up those companies debt more than anything.
I suppose it’s hypocritical to support public tax monies to build an arena and not to bailout Detroit … either way it’s public money spent underwriting an inefficient and uncompetitive business model that has absolutely zero chance of long-term sustainability. YMMV.
December 11th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
If I were bitter, full of vengence and spite . . . I might mount a vote for Yi Jianlian for All-Star campaign.
What fun to see Stern announce Jianlian into the starting line-up!
http://www.nba.com/2008/news/12/11/firstallstarreturns/index.html
Thank goodness, I’m not that type of person, and I would never think of such a thing.
December 11th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
D_G, you dont need to start a campaign, the collective population of china will vote him in anyway. voting on the allstars, just anotherthing that is wrong with the league: wait, is there anything right with the league? i never liked the vote system.
December 11th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
Nbawillreturn, stern did mention Memphis, who do you think he was talking about relocating?
It isn’t just them, we, as Brian points out, pay some attention to the finances of the owners of the Blunder. They are not the only ones that lost paper wealth.
There are a handful of teams that were losing money before the economy tanked.
The question is which unknown team will join the list of potential future Sonics?
December 11th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
Of course we all know how awful the Thunder are this year . . . and some have probably read Hollinger’s Dec. 4 comments on how he doesn’t think that they will break the record for most losses in a season:
http://tinyurl.com/6zt6lv
However, I have to comment on some observations that Hollinger does make.
Here is the biggest, Hollinger concludes “Historic awfulness always requires a confluence of factors — a perfect storm of horrendous play. In this case, it probably would take multiple injuries, as well as trades of several veterans, for the Thunder to truly threaten the Sixers’ mark”
My question is what player is he thinking about who’s removal would make that team worse?????
I keep trying to imagine an answer to the fill in the blank . . . The Thunder just lost ________. Now they will no longer be as good.
Trade a veteran? My goodness, what would happen to that team if they didn’t have . . . Joe Smith???? They’d surely sink if they lost . . . Desmond Mason?????
I also note from that article that Hollinger is quite optimistic about the Thunder improving their play. He writes that while his computer predicts they’ll win 15 games . . . he thinks they are much better than that and may in fact wind up “finish[ing] with about 18 to 20 victories.”
Just think about what it means when 18 to 20 victories is the positive scenario.
December 11th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
I think it is funny that Stern is calling a 300 million dollar remodel a new arena.
December 11th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Stern has done f’d up too many times in his tenure, he needs to go…
December 11th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
D_G
Wilcox, out two weeks with a finger injury. Now the Plunder will go 0 for December. We have seen this before. Without Wilcox the team has no inside, low post scoring. Collison cannot score enough to keep teams from doubling Durant. Wilcox isn’t a franchise guy but he is the teams only player with a post offensive game.
December 11th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Stern agrees, he needs to go, in the interview he said he would not be the longest serving pro sports commish, he said he would not pass Rozel. That puts him between now and about 5 years.
My guess is he gets the league through the next labor contract.
I have kind of gotten over actively hating him. He is who he is, he works for the owners and speaks for a given owner in a given market.
If you really do not like what he says just know somebody is paying him 5 million a year (I think) to say it.
Bennett is an asshole.
Steve Ballmer is a great guy.
Same city, same commish, different attitude toward the city.
December 11th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
What could have been? I really was excited about the potential of the franchise, and all of the picks it had, the young players it had, and the great players it was going to get.
December 11th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
Vinny at 12:16 PM …. I’m with you on that - great idea - it might not have much functional impact by symbolically it would be historic and powerful and it would be all over not just ESPN but the national news if this could happen.
I think if there was any kind of movement on this the support for it would be big.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:27 am
Instead of banning the NBA from Seattle, why not just ban David Stern? or ban the NBA as long as Stern is commissioner?
December 12th, 2008 at 9:13 am
“either way it’s public money spent underwriting an inefficient and uncompetitive business model that has absolutely zero chance of long-term sustainability.”
the vampire of free market capitalism has zero chance of long term sustainability, but you and i still cling to it as a lifeline ideology as citizens of the US. Marx called the demise of capitalism in the mid 1800’s, and its interesting to see how a noticeable amount of what he said would occur during the lifespan of capitalism has actually happened.
No Detroit American auto industry = Pistons relocation or demise as a business. There simply will not be enough consumers able to afford the product (let alone the ability to feed, house, and cloth themselves.
December 12th, 2008 at 10:12 am
Brian:
Why do you lie to the people that read your blog? You got your revenue numbers from the December 3rd issue of Forbes magazine. The revenue and operating income numbers were taken from the 07-08 season. It’s amazing to me that so many people up there worship the ground you walk on when you blatently give them false information.
Here is a link for all your worshipers:
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/32/nba08_NBA-Team-Valuations_MetroArea.html
Scroll to the key at the bottom for the info.
Nice work as always.
December 12th, 2008 at 10:21 am
Oh and you forgot to mention to your congregation that the Thunder had the third largest jump in team value in the NBA and Forbes reasoning was simple, because the team moved from Seattle to OKC.
December 12th, 2008 at 10:24 am
Yet the Thunder are still worth $50M less than the owners paid. It’s that kind of business acumen that has CHK, SD, and GET performing so well in the market.
December 12th, 2008 at 10:32 am
a little off topic but the NHL is having major attendance issues too…just thought someone would like to read..
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2008/12/12/brophy_tickets_giveaway/
things are similar with both leagues…huge blocks of seats are empty in quite a few arenas..
December 12th, 2008 at 10:33 am
i dont’ want Seattle to get an NHL Team, I would just want a NBA Team..
December 12th, 2008 at 10:42 am
It’s a freaking blog.
I appreciate you implying that I walk on water. I have a business, 2 kids, and a busy life. I’m thrilled that people read this blog but if you think I am making any assurances that all my fact checking is 100% then you need to go to the paid media. I read the forbes magazine, I commented on it. If it was last years numbers then I will happily acknowledge being wrong which I do quite a bit. In that case I’ll point out that despite the lame duck status, the constant controversy, and the really crappy product there were 6 teams that had less revenue than us last year. Pretty damn amazing really. I didn’t believe that we could have been as high as 24 last year so I assumed that the numbers in question were projections for this year.
I believe that the premise of my concept stands. It seems like things are going much worse than expected. OKC slipped to #12 in attendance according to a report which I cannot claim to have verified. I would expect a first year franchise to be in the top 5 at least.
December 12th, 2008 at 11:32 am
Your right. Much worse. OKC is third in the NBA in season-ticket sales behind Utah and the Lakers.
December 12th, 2008 at 11:45 am
That’s great Carter, but if the Thunder’s season ticket sales are right behind the Lakers & Utah, then why can’t they sell the building out? With so many season ticket holders, it shouldn’t be too difficult to sell out a game, but apparently it is.
I’m also wondering, how a 10-72 season (I’m being generous) and the continuing slump in the economy will affect the season ticket renewal percentage for next year. You think the season ticket renewal will be at 100% Carter?
Then again, maybe in 2010 they will when all the big free agents sign in Oklahoma City you’ll start seeing sellouts every game. I’m sure Lebron has OK City in his sights, and I’m sure Clay will pay top dollar (dripping in sarcasm). The franchise in OK will never be a big player in the NBA, maybe if the stars align right, they could put together a Sacramento type of run, but it will just be a fluke, and a short stint in the playoffs. And even that remote chance is years away.
December 12th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Don’t worry B-Rob, we got your back. It’s nice that Clint thinks you walk on water though. I guess your supposed to check every thing you right in this blog, to make sure it’s 100% accurate, since you have so much free time and all. God knows, we can’t use our brains, we just take everything you say word for word like Carter. I guess he just believes everything he reads, in a blog no less.
December 12th, 2008 at 11:50 am
-Carter Says:
-Your right. Much worse. OKC is third in the NBA in season-ticket sales behind Utah and the Lakers.
And who here is willing to bet that if the Kings or Clippers or Grizzlies was moved to Richmond, VA, or Albuquerque, or even Kansas City that their season ticket sales would just as high. Actually, given the number of financially struggling franchises, maybe we should move all of them to increase their value. Oh, wait, Stern is already trying that… my bad.
Unfortuantely, season ticket sales are not the be all and end all of a successful, money making franchise. Anyone know how well the Grizzlies season tickets sold in their first year in Memphis??? And how well is that team valued at now???
December 12th, 2008 at 11:58 am
“OKC is third in the NBA in season-ticket sales behind Utah and the Lakers.”
What will those numbers look like without the padding from the owners companies? At this point, I’m not sure the owners will actually control those companies come renewal time.
What’s stunned me about Thunder attendance this year, never was the season ticket sales, with the way the NBA does attendance they’re going to be up near capacity based upon those figures alone. what’s stunned me is that they’re getting zero walk ups.
“Forbes reasoning was simple, because the team moved from Seattle to OKC.”
Simple if that’s how you want to sell it. What they actually said was that the move to OKC got them control of the revenue streams attached to the building which raises the believe NOI which is what is the key indicator of building value. Also, the Forbes article is based on presumptions of equality within those revenue streams, I don’t believe that’s going to be the case. Time will tell.
December 12th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
Oh, so I worship Brian Robinson now? This is rich. Respect? sure. Worship? Ha.
“Your right. Much worse. OKC is third in the NBA in season-ticket sales behind Utah and the Lakers.”
OKC is an F’ing armpit and will fail as both an NBA host and American city. But then, with leaders like Clay Bennett and McClendouche, who needs outside opposition like us? god I hope Obama spits the environmental and unsustainable truth ASAP about your precious natural gas energy “solutions” and cripples your region’s economy. Never wanted an entity to fail so much as I do OKC…
December 12th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance
OKC is 12th in attendance w/ those high season-ticket sales (most of which were bought before the season started and expectations were still high and the fans hadn’t tired of thier new toy yet).
Just imagine how low they would be if those numbers reflected actual butts in seats, and not tickets sold.
December 12th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Blunder value is still below the purchase price, and cost of moving, it will take a very long time to make that up.
December 12th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
What will those numbers look like without the padding from the owners companies? At this point, I’m not sure the owners will actually control those companies come renewal time.
- They also have ticket prices that are the lowest or very close to the lowest in the league.
With the economy going into the tank there is really no way the team will survive in OKC without a tremendous amount of subsidies from the government. When the OKC citizens felt they were in a “battle” for the team they were much more willing to give some of these subsidies (”cost of being a major league city”). However, I think it is pretty obvious a very vocal group is going to start wondering why the status of OKC is absolutely uneffected due to them getting a team.
The countdown of Clay Bennett becoming OKC’s Howard Schultz has hit about halftime…pretty sure he isn’t going to be able to pull this out.
Finally, those Forbes numbers are a complete and total estimate…as you pointed out the “real” numbers are all from last year and none of us know what they will see this year. However, the idea that someone would pay $300+ million to buy that team AND keep it in OKC is completely false.
December 12th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Funny how we talk about this situation here and a very topical article is posted about the same situation at BenditlikeBennett (bookmark this blog now…)
http://benditlikebennett.blogspot.com/2008/12/fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccckkkkk.html
December 12th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Funny how we talk about this situation here and a very topical article is posted about the same situation at BenditlikeBennett (bookmark this blog now…)
http://tinyurl.com/5ps6lq
I also like the little video…wtf was the reporter wearing? It is also great that his little throw away line at the end “despite being better in virtually every statistical category” is not true whatsoever
December 12th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
TB Says:
December 12th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance
OKC is 12th in attendance w/ those high season-ticket sales (most of which were bought before the season started and expectations were still high and the fans hadn’t tired of thier new toy yet).
Just imagine how low they would be if those numbers reflected actual butts in seats, and not tickets sold.
So, they’re in the middle of the pack in attendance only a month and a half into their innagural season?! Again I say, just wait until the novelty wears off. The other NBA owners who are going to have to subsidize them through revenue sharing must love them.
The funniest part about that attendance chart is that they’re 3rd to last in road attendance- with Kevin Durant! You’d think if he just went on the road signing autographs, more people would show up.
What an embarassment to the league that franchise is.
December 12th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
It’s time for Seminary here at the First Chuirch of Brian Robinson Scientist.
Brethren and Sisters, I’ll let you in on a little secret at the risk of making my bosses here in Utah mad. Utah may be playing well and Season Ticket Sales were good before the season started, but they’re still struggling to sell out games. There have been nights that I’ve been handed stacks of decent Upper Bowl Tix to give out to clients and friends.
So fellow Brianites if Utah is struggling to sell out games with high season ticket sales and a good product, what does that teach us?
Anyone…
Anyone…
Brian, please come off “The Mount” to give us a Sermon? According to the Book of Carter, We Loyal and Faithful Few must only regurgitate your Holy Script.
AAAAAAMENNNNNN!!!!!!!!!
December 12th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
I’m just sad that not a single person commented on my super high quality graphic for this post.
December 12th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
Visions are expected from the worshipped, sorry Brian.
I’ll have to repost the Life of Brian youtube clip.
Remember everybody, Always Look on the Bright Side of Life
I feel like whistling just thinking about it.
December 12th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
Myk, do you write BendItLikeBennett? Seems like your sarcastic style, and I’ve noticed you hyping it here before.
Whoever the author is, keep it up. I can’t get enough of that blog.
December 12th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Prophet Brian, will we see a report of options, or a recommendation of priorities?
December 12th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
Attendance in the NBA is definately falling. In 2005/2006 there were not any teams with attendance below 15,000. Now there are 7 of them. We all know OKC will be joining that group soon enough. With a major economic contraction in process i cannot see this team being successful at the gate for very long with the product they are putting on the floor. It is all about revenues anyway not attendance. You can fill the arena if the seats are free. Suite sales, local TV, signage, advertising and endorsement deals for the players makes the franchise successful. The owners are mostly paying themselves.
December 12th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nba/2008498903_soni12.html
Y’all probably saw this, but in case you didn’t. The Stern spinning on his bidet in the face of terrible economic times.
December 13th, 2008 at 12:24 am
Any suggestions to help the Thunder?!?!?!?!
http://tinyurl.com/6s6zmv
December 13th, 2008 at 12:28 am
With all of Clay & his buddies’ financial obligations and current state of affairs, maybe they should change the name of their team to the Oklahoma City Panhandlers. A side note… There is brand new national chain eating establishment which just opened here in Yakima called Sonic. When I drove by it today even though I was starving I continued on my way as my appetite quickly turned sour. The hurt lingers.
December 13th, 2008 at 1:03 am
I thought the same as I drove by it today…local franchisees however.
December 13th, 2008 at 2:03 am
Not only is it Sonic by name isn’t it based in OKC? I’ll never go to one and they have the best chili cheese dog.
December 13th, 2008 at 3:08 am
Not only is it Sonic by name isn’t it based in OKC? I’ll never go to one and they have the best chili cheese dog.
- Im just glad they have finally moved to the NW after their years and years of advertising on local channels despite not having any locations. Talk about a smart business model…
December 13th, 2008 at 4:13 am
They moved to the NW? I live in Seattle and have never once seen one.
December 13th, 2008 at 9:39 am
I tend to separate the two….Bennett,OKC politicians and their minions-vs the rest of the State..I’m not anti “all things Oklahoma.”
December 13th, 2008 at 9:48 am
From the Oklahoman: http://tinyurl.com/6s6zmv
The Breakdown: Thunder Suggestions!!
Published: December 13, 2008
So, the Thunder doesn’t always give the Ford Center faithful reason to cheer. That means there needs to be even more going on around the arena. Here are a few suggestions to spice up the atmosphere until the Thunder starts winning games:
Advertisement
Click here to find out more!
5 Hand out more thunder sticks: Hey, the name of the team is Thunder. Why not distribute a gazillion of those plastic sticks with the apropos name every game? Used to be, they were given away in Loud City, not just in the expensive seats.
4 Flameheads: Picture it — an area filled with foam hats that look like the blue natural gas flames. Is it goofy? Sure. But so are the Cheeseheads. The Flameheads would be something fun.
3 Name a mascot already: We know one is on the way, but we really need one. That crazy dancing guy who debuted earlier this week was a hit. A mascot would be more of the same.
2 Play more thunder:
We’ve heard it a bit in recent weeks, but there needs to be more use of the sound of thunder. It’s ominous. It’s loud. Use it.
1 Use “Mad Max” clips: They’re using movie clips from “Hoosiers” and “Austin Powers” on the Jumbotron. Why not “Beyond Thunderdome”? The “Two men enters, one man leaves” bit would have everyone going bonkers.
December 13th, 2008 at 11:48 am
Sonic drive-ins are freaking awesome …
December 13th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
“Im just glad they have finally moved to the NW after their years and years of advertising on local channels despite not having any locations. Talk about a smart business model…”
They advertise on cable channels … not local ones.
December 13th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
It’s ironic that the team Sonic moved out of the Northwest and the drive-in Sonic moved in. This may be a move by Stern to placate the NBA fans here. One thing is clear that hasn’t been changed from the recent NBA Sonic ineptitude - the car hops at the Sonic drive-in and the Sonic b-ballers both seem to be using roller skates when they do what they do. Good try Stern !
December 13th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Despite everything bad for the Blunder …. KD is improving and showing he is special - a star on the rise and R. Westbrook is showing some real positive potential.
J Green …. the jury is still out - hard to say.
BUT …. everyone else sucks - this team will be ripped apart again this summer - the group has learned to lose together -
Presti will have tons of salary cap room this summer - will Clay want to spend the money? will Free Agents want to come? Will Presti make the right moves?
Stay tuned - alot could change by next December.
I still really like KD - great kid - great player.
Stern sucks
December 13th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Brian (and everyone)-
Ok i know this is silly but one of my myspace friends just posted a bulletin saying “want to help bring the sonics back-the fights not over!” he says theres a big announcement on january 23.
December 13th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Next year no more Swift, Sene, Joe Smith, Wilcox. Petro, Desmond Mason. I think they will all be gone by next fall.
Sonics actually still are paying Donyell Marshall 5 million for this year - but then that obligation disappears in June.
Entering 09/10 the Blunder have only abut 28 million in salary they are obligated to. And D. Wilkens (3 million) & E. Watson (6 million) disappear after 09/10.
Maybe Presti gets lucky and moves Watson? Man is he awful or what?
Presti has a TON of cap room to work with next summer.
December 13th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
I really dont think Sixers coach should have been fired. I hope he gets a good job somewhere else.
December 13th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Gifts for the budget-conscious:
http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/tix/948983971.html
buck-a-piece ain’t that bad, huh?
December 13th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Overcharged.
December 13th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Ok following up on my last comment this is exactly what this guy wrote to me…
“They are voting on the key arena new remodel and if it gets approved microsoft is going to buy the memphis grizzlies and move them here and they will be the sonics!!!”
Wow. I wrote him back that thats not true.
December 13th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
I think January 23rd will be a lot of fun, but I don’t think it is a majo news item. Good for people who want to support the cause. I’ll let them announce their own event. Sorry.
December 13th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Yes, so much of that is write’s embellishment.
The Ross Hunter and Tracy Eide of the state task force are attempting to form a concensus on spending priorities for the hotel taxes, if they can not all argee then they will issue a report to the legislature of all of the options and let them decide (not good).
So, that isn’t really a vote, though the person could be referring to the legislature actually voting on approving the task force priority list (or the parts it picks from the report).
My opinion is that if/when the state approves the funds Steve Ballmer, not Microsoft, will work the short list of available teams, the Griz would be among them.
It is not very accurate, but the basic idea is possible.
December 13th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Oldie but a Goodie…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfouzxPsWdc&eurl=http://benditlikebennett.blogspot.com/2008_07_01_archive.html&feature=player_embedded
Good god…how does he have a public fourm to speak his mind?
December 13th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
That’s 2-22 now.
December 13th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
T: so you are friends with Neema, haha nice! Since you asked…
We’re working on a local concert event for Jan. 23 that will show support for the return of the Sonics. The timing is such that the state legislative session will be underway and hopefully we can generate some positive press in favor of the convention center tax redistribution. I’d announce full details here now but we’re trying to nail down some specifics over the next few days.
Like the omniscient Brian said, this will be a fun event but don’t expect any major breaking news. DO mark Friday, Jan 23rd down on your calendars and expect an official announcement early next week!
December 13th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Thanks for keeping this going. Keep it up. Although I have not watched an NBA game this year, it would be nice to watch the Sonics in the future. Can’t say I miss it now, but if we had the Sonics back I wouldn’t miss a damn game. My dad has switched to the Blazers, calling me every night they are on t.v. I try and watch but just can’t bring myself to support the NBA.
Bring Back the Supes!!!
December 14th, 2008 at 1:26 am
Hey Adam B,
are you looking for local bands to play that show? i’m sure my band would love to do it.
http://www.destructionofmodernman.com
December 14th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
much appreciated TB, but the performers are already set for this one. if it’s successful, i don’t see any reason why we couldn’t do another one in a couple months. rock on.
December 14th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
OK BR …. Nice image at the top of this thread ….
December 14th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
blunder down by 20 points at the end of the first quarter!
December 14th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
“Like the omniscient Brian said, this will be a fun event but don’t expect any major breaking news. DO mark Friday, Jan 23rd down on your calendars and expect an official announcement early next week!”
Nice! Thanks for the info.
December 14th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
OKC lost again but Jeff Green had 33 points and KD got a double double. Is Jeff Green starting to prove himself? The blunder seem to keep scoring those moral victories, but the real ones continue to be elusive. Hopefully, a trend that lasts for a long time.
December 14th, 2008 at 11:59 pm
HA! Thanks for that link, Myk. Obviously, that Barry Tramel dude would love us here…equating “message boards” or blog sites to porn establishments. OKC is a different world. I miss our team, but, thank mother freakin’ God I don’t live in OKC if he’s any indication of what I’d have to watch on the evening news.
December 15th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
“Is Jeff Green starting to prove himself?”
Absolutely. He’s going to be a nasty hybrid of Scottie Pippen and Karl Malone.
And jesus, the guy is in year 2 of his pro career, has never been expected to be a Kobe/KD/LeBron/MJ-type.
Mark my words: Jeff Green will be tearing it up regularly by year 4.
December 15th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Mr Baker, I am Seattle (and so can you!) Says:
December 11th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
“Stern agrees, he needs to go, in the interview he said he would not be the longest serving pro sports commish, he said he would not pass Rozel. That puts him between now and about 5 years.
My guess is he gets the league through the next labor contract.”
THAT IS WONDERFUL NEWS!!! YOU MADE MY DAY!!!
December 15th, 2008 at 10:27 pm
Brian, I dig the graphic too. Sorry I missed it earlier - make it BIGGER next time!
Meanwhile - Adam - sweet idea for the concert - looking forward to your announcement.
Cheers,
Speedcat