A quick update
Posted on Monday, December 29th, 2008 at 9:29 am by Brian Robinson
So I don’t want to push down the event flyer that Speed was nice enough to bump up here. Please, please, please attend this January 23rd event!!!
In threads the last couple of weeks there was one guy Tim who very nicely told me I should quit whining and be doing something instead. Another whose name I don’t have off the top of my head asked me to please, please, not give up. Very nice timing with that one because some days it does feel a bit hopeless and it does feel like I have no control whatsover. I need the encouragement and appreciated it.
I liken my own role to a deep bench player in a playoff game. I will never be a guy who scored 20 points in this one but if I played hard every minute and set a couple of screens for the big guys then I can hold my head high. It has just been so damn long. I never foresaw this fight lasting so long. Sometimes I want to get out of the way and just let the powers that be mess this all up. Still I’ve been making the calls and hitting the meetings. Somebody has to keep them honest.
So here is where we sit right now.
The city as you all know has serious financial incentive to recieve funding for this package during this legislative session. When I question Tim Cies’ motivations and actions(which I do a lot) on this he is very, very quick and aggressive to point out “I have $150 million at stake here and you are claiming that I don’t want to get it done? Get real?” That said the mayor has his critics and some people believe he just wants this issue to die so he does not have to deal with it anymore.
I tend to think that the Mayors office leans towards getting this done. The Center is a high priority for him and he has face to lose. That said I believe that EVERY politician is constantly aware of the potential harm and benefits of their policy decisions. There is not enough of a push out there saying that if he fails at this he will pay a price or at least be rewarded for his intentions. There remains however a large anti-sports contingent that will use this against him if he gets fully and totally behind it. Nobody wants to be exposed out in front of a losing effort and certainly not one with these kind of critics. So he has been very supportive, but he’s got one foot in the water and hasn’t yet found the reason to dive in completely. That is a problem but not really one I can blame him for.
The city has put together this proposal that gets them out of competition with other interests who want the “stadium taxes” including the restaurant tax. Their belief has been that, by getting out of the competition they greatly increase their odds of passage. Right now they are looking at taking 1% of an existing hotel/motel tax located in Seattle only. This tax was voluntarily imposed by the Hotel association to boost tourism by investing in the Convention Center. It has generated a surplus annually and last year that surplus was “raided” by state legislators to the tune of about $70M which was contributed to the general fund.
The Convention Center has wanted to expand for some time. We are the 12th largest market with the 63rd largest convention center in the country and they estimate that they have lost more business due to size constraints than they have booked in the last 5 years. They need more square footage but were really 2-3 years away from making the big ask for it. That changed when their surplus fund got raided and then the city came asking for part of their money. Suddenly they have had to push up their expansion schedule and they have been frantically trying to plan, budget, forcast, etc. for both the cost and revenue associated with a massive rebuild. They now intend to ask for this money in this legislative session to prevent the money from being stripped from them.
The city has conducted a preliminary analysis which indicates that there is enough money to do both projects. The Convention Center has also shown this in preliminary numbers. The big holdup right now is that they want to refine their numbers because they are worried about giving away funds that they later wind up needing.
So a couple of the tasks that are in progress and need to be done include
Convincing the convention center that they are better off in a highly scrutinized alliance with the city than they are trusting legislature to not just take their surplus funds while nobody is looking.
Convincing the hoteliers that this is a good enough deal for them that they should actually advocate for it.
Getting the numbers back in time so that this can be on legislatures doorstep in roughly 10 days.
Assembling and distributing this information effectively to legislature such that they cannot claim ignorance of the facts.
So the Hoteliers have a choice to make here and I respect their decision making process in this economy. Some people have told them that aligning with Tim Cies will absolutely kill their expansion chances in this session because Olympia hates Tim Cies. That is a very valid point. I have heard directly from multiple members of legislature that since those surplus funds were taken last year they are considered fair game and that in this deficit budget the state will, absent a reason not to, simply re-write the law and take them again. The real fear is that the CC gets told that its project is not high enough priority for this tough economy and is pushed back for 2-3 years. Meanwhile their fund gets raided annually and no money accumulates or gets allocated. If we link the two construction projects, have a firm deadline of 2009, and the construction unions on board then there is a substantive reason why they cannot get simply pushed back. They get a much higher likelyhood of having it done this year.
So we need numbers done ASAP and we need the construction unions on board. That is also in progress.
One area of strong disagreement among all the players is the subject of NBA basketball and the Ballmer ownership group. There are groups that believe that mentioning NBA basketball in Olympia is a curse and a death blow to ANY legislation. There is a belief that it should simply not be mentioned in any way. I disagree because I don’t believe that legislators are that stupid when it comes to excuses for inactivity. If we don’t mention NBA basketball ever then it will stay silent right until the 11th hour when somebody, perhaps Chopp or one of his people, will suddenly say “Wait a minute, this is the NBA legislation right? We need to look at it more closely to see if the people should be investing in a venue for billionaire owners.” Then they’ll kill it.
I understand that low profile is important when it comes to the NBA side of things and I think the message has to be just right. That said I still think that you have to acknowledge it, and especially the $150M in private donation that will be made if we get this done. It adds the critical element of “time sensative” that is missing if we don’t mention it. I would attempt to make the NBA side less of an issue not by minimizing it, but by maximizing the other side of the story. Adding publicity to the economic stimulous, the investment in the Seattle Center, the buildign of tourism, the Convention Center expansion, etc. If they make that story so big that the NBA is a little bonus footnote then you take the ammo away from the critics. That is my view anyway.
I don’t expect the ownership group to be high profile in this matter. There is too much concern about it becoming “all about basketball”. What I don’t know is whether their lobbyists will be working the back rooms. Every group mentioned in this post has their own lobbyists and if they are all working in tandem it represents a lot of political muscle.
So there have been multiple meetings on this subject in the last 4 weeks and it seems to be coming together. Everybody is waiting on more finalized numbers from the convention center and an indication of who the leader of this movement may be. Will it be the Seattle Chamber? The Convention Center? The Hoteliers? Me? I doubt it, but there is a lot of lobbying to be done in a very short period of time.
If this gets done it will probably be pretty quietly and without a lot of fanfair. If it doesn’t get done I have promised a rally on the municiple buildings front steps at the 1 year anniversary of the settlement agreement. Hope you are all with me then if necessary.
I’d give it 50/50 to 60/40 today. Chances would be much, much higher if the economy didn’t stink so terribly bad. Funding for anything is tough right now.
Happy New Years to all.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:25 am
BR thanks for the update, sounds like you’ve been busy! It’s exciting to hear that the wheels are indeed grinding at some fairly high levels on this issue.
Meanwhile I really do not want to be a buzz killer here, but after having seen the Leg stonewall this issue yet again last year, and give up ridiculous excuses like, “There is no legislation to vote on.. if I had a bill I would vote for it” (which I heard numerous times while down there last year), I just don’t know how much I really trust them to not find another asinine way to balk at this one again.
That said, based on what you’ve reported it feels like the City has really got some interest in this and has been putting some real work into it. This feels good. I think you’re right that they are in a precarious spot (as is any politician who sides on this issue) and have to sell this carefully. Probably quietly.
It’s so sad that “NBA” and “basketball” are such bad words in Olympia today. And we are facing a very serious fiancial crisis in this state - this one is going to be a very hard sell. I think they must sell this as a means to rebuild the local economy, grow local jobs, and bring more tourism to Seattle Center. That is the only way they’ll get it past Frank Chopp and so many others.
December 29th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Thanks for keeping all of us updated and fighting the good fight Brian. If there’s ever an event where you need people to show up, i’ll be there.
December 29th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
You are my hero Brian. Keep it up.
December 29th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Why doesnt the convention center and the Seattle Center do a join project where the CC can be expanded somewhat and also the new Key Arena is renovated in a manner that would allow for the larger conventions to be held at the KA with the profits split (with a larger portion going to the CC group but enough for the KA to benefit) between the two groups??
Seems like a win/win…
December 29th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Why?!?!? That is the KEY(Pun not intended, yet it is relevent) word for this whole saga. WHY??!!? WHY did this have to happen..WHY did Shultz do what he did?? WHY, oh WHY did the NBA allow this??? WHHHYYYYY!!!!!!!!
December 29th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Like the Seattle Group Blue Scholars say” Bring em back home, For my brothers and my sisters who have been gone too long, we say Bring em back Home!
December 29th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Brian, you da man.
Everyone please attend the show on Jan. 23! You can now RSVP on facebook by clicking here:
http://tinyurl.com/SonicsTributeShow
December 29th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Bring Back The SONICS!!!
December 29th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
If I may, there is another secondary party that is very interested in this, King County and its executive Ron Sims stand to gain something around 100 million dollars from the Washington State Convention & Trade Center purchase of King County air space for the location of the new site.
How big is the King County budget hole this year? 97 million?
The sooner this happens, the better for King County as well.
Thanks for the timeframe Brian. It is about a week sooner than my estimation.
It would be a good idea if the city could estimate the increase in revenue from the non-NBA events.
Zags vs. UCON was a sellout, but not having an upgraded building left money on the table.
Will the Storm’s owner, and former deputy mayor, Anne Levinson show public support?
December 29th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
“The real fear is that the CC gets told that its project is not high enough priority for this tough economy and is pushed back for 2-3 years. Meanwhile their fund gets raided annually and no money accumulates or gets allocated.”
And that’s exactly how Seattle & Olympia want it to stay … it’s an underground funding source for the City and County to blow on silly pet projects and overhead.
The powers that be at CC never get buzz in the mainstream Seattle press, and the idiot dilantette racist anti-anything-and- everything-sports P-U SoundOff crowd that every politician in this city seems so afraid of will nail them to the wall if this gets explained as NBA legislation.
I’m very pessimistic that anything will get done with this. It’s too easy for the reps at every level in this to pass the buck, blow it off to some unspecified point in the future and claim that with the fiscal crisis it wasn’t sound policy. Plausible deniability, don’tcha know.
December 29th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
I can’t wait for the event on the 23rd! ill try to get people to go. thank you brian for not giving up we need you you know that. any rally or event we will be there.bring back our sonics!
December 29th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
The hoteliers could take their ball and go home, no business exectly like it in the state, or other city in the state, carries that kind of tax burden.
Nobody staying in a hotel in Spokane is paying that tax, but the whole state including Spokane should get that revenue?
I am using them as an example, but it makes the point.
Btw, if the convention center is such a benefit to Seattle then put it in Yelm, they could use the big benefit. The project is selfserving for the state as it is, directly ripping off the money is a shortcut, but I am not sure what is in it for Seattle in either case, I’m the one paying for the Seattle portion of the equation. I am not taking my kids to a convention anytime soon.
December 29th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
To some degree I think you are right Xteve.
It’s lonely out there, I can tell you that.
I just blasted a legislator over at crosscut for the state having anything to do with this, and having one if the task force members be from the 18th legislative district, Joe Zarelli is the one that said that he would like to see the taxes laps, the 18th is not in King County, Zarelli lives in Ridgefield get a map, that might as well be f-ing Mars.
Still no report from that task force, maybe they are waiting for numbers from the convention center too.
December 29th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
The Bring Back our Sonics event sounds like fun! I may be out of town that weekend but maybe I can fly out Sat a.m. instead. It would be cool to meet some of the people on this site! I will pass the info around to my fellow Supes fans!
December 29th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Deb Eddy says that the legislature does not have to justify to anybody why Joe Zarelli of Ridgefield (Cowlitz County) was appointed to a task force for LOCAL financing for King County.
December 29th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
The CC is primarily financed through city moneys and primarily benefits the city economy. Their economic impact numbers are huge. They pay for themselves.
The money the county gets for air rights is up in the air. I think the $100M number mentioned is probably based on last years market. That certainly does help it get done however…
December 29th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
You are absolutely right that the hoteliers are carrying a big tax load. It was a voluntarily imposed tax on hotels in Seattle specifically designed to help to tourism driving issues in Seattle. They seem more than happy to support the convention center and comfortable that the gains far outweigh the losses, but taking the money to the general fund was terrible. Everybody is lawyered up to prevent it from happenind again but the state does not seem to have any fear that they cannot get the money. “We’ll just change the law” as one person put it honestly.
December 29th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
This is just my layman’s opinion. But the seizure of the CC money was probably a violation of the Washington State constitution. I believe a dedicated tax can only be spent on for what the tax was passed for.
I guarentee you if the legislature takes the hotel tax money again there will be some legal action.
December 29th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
If the arena got the upgrade wouldn’t the storm and Seattle U be happy also. Any former sonics attending the event? What are the expected numbers showing up?
December 29th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
The powers that be at CC never get buzz in the mainstream Seattle press, and the idiot dilantette racist anti-anything-and- everything-sports P-U SoundOff crowd that every politician in this city seems so afraid of will nail them to the wall if this gets explained as NBA legislation.
- I think the people you listed below are just as much of a minority as the Sonics fans. The reason this won’t get passed is because they would rather use the money elsewhere…not that they are really all that scared it will cost them their elections. Its just a convenient excuse they use to make them look like the decision has already been made.
December 29th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
I am glad to hear they have lawyered up, I have been promoting their side (I assumed the argument) against Chris Van Dyke’s bullshit comments in the online newspaper comment sections.
Btw, SEIU is the second union to tack the governor to court over her proposed budget, to force her to propose a balanced budget that includes negotiated wage increases for in-home health care workers. She should propose a budget that gives all of the budget to the two unions. It does not matter, it is a proposal, the legislature writes and passes the budget, then she signs or there is a veto. I think they can only get real legal action if she signed a budget into law. Suing over a proposal seams kind of premature.
If taking money made off the backs of Seattle hotels and spreading it around the state is such a good idea then the entire state’s hotels should be treated and taxed the same way.
Not too tough to argue online or in court. Senate Bill 6638 is pretty clear, it is a special fund, not general fund.
That general fund tax credit will not be there, but the rest is worth going to court over.
December 30th, 2008 at 6:50 am
great update and a thoughtful interpretation. i concur — wrapping ‘our’ nba issue up into the larger convention center/seattle’s business future issues is wise. . . try to sell the whole thing as economic development, not as sports subsidy. . .
i still believe. go go sonics.
December 30th, 2008 at 7:22 am
http://blogs.thenewstribune.com/sonics/2008/12/29/will_the_shame_never_stop_raining_on_okl
For a comedy break…check out the ESPN lowlights of the Blunder vs the Wizinators. Thanks to the Trib.
It’s classic comedy…..
December 30th, 2008 at 8:37 am
Perhaps we the citizens should propose to eliminate the hotel tax and force the state to deal with the issue. Either use the funds for CC and the Key or stop taxing people under false pretenses. I love this area but I HATE the government of this state. “Spineless, gutless, worthless” should be the new state motto. How do you say that in latin? We could have a new state seal created. Communist pig f@#kers.
December 30th, 2008 at 8:39 am
Oh, and thanks Brian for hanging in there! Like our last conversation, I don’t know how you continue to do this. If you need any help, let me know. I wasn’t sure if I wanted to be part of this agian, but winter is long and boring without basketball and I have some spare time on my hands.
December 30th, 2008 at 9:54 am
I hate to say this, but if economic growth is the selling point, having 100% of the tax going to the Convention Center would probably go futher towards economic growth than unspecified projects at Seattle Center.
When the City changed their request from a Key Arena remodel or nothing proposal to a blatant cash grab, they pretty much killed any pie-in the-sky chance that ever might’ve existed of getting a slice of the pie.
December 30th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
I don’t know about that DBF. The Century 21 plan for SC has been vetted, approved and the plan is complete. Obviously the city has to emphasize growth with the creation of jobs with the various on-going projects.
December 30th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
I just heard from Softy that Brian Robinson will be on KJR in the next five minutes at 11:15.
December 30th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Hey Brian or everyone when is the legislature in Olympia will be back in session?
December 30th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
I have to admit I’m among the skeptics on here as well. But more importantly I also want to thank Brian for all his hard work and encourage you to keep it up. You compare yourself to a bench warmer who sets some good screens so the big players can do their part. I love that analogy. You better realize you are like Steve Schefler though. We fans LOVE you!!!
December 30th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Dfb, I think that the potential of getting shut out started going away when the convention center stated at the Dec 1 task force meeting that they agree that it is possible for both to exist, that both proposals were made one after the other, with Seattleclosing with a Seattle Center focused presentation. They had to show that the money would not just sit there for 5 years.
The argument for the money grab can only be closed by the convention center producing its projected costs within the next 10 days showing their plan to build, and that there is enough money for both.
Seattle will use the 75 million at Seattle Center, in some way, before the convention center has even started.
That was the point I kept driving at David Brewster at Crosscut.com when he would write stories for the convention center folks (he writes it, they read it, we all know it, Brian confirmed it above), they were a few years away from even talking about expanding. It was the city that moved up their timetable.
We need each other, and the hoteliers need to not get ripped off again.
The Seattle Times gave it a little nod in an editorial before Christmas.
The Seattle Chamber of Commerce needs to step in and pull all of the business community together on this.
I would be astonished, stunned even, if a guy identified as a co-founder of Save Our Sonics becomes the face of this.
Seattle is asking for 75 million, the convention center is protecting more than half a billion, a lot of this is up to them and all of their connections.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
i missed brian on KJR today…. recap anyone?
December 30th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Ben - to answer your question, we’re still working on former sonics to 100% confirm appearances at the show.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Adam - I sent you a note from West Seattle Tim - he’s wanted to help out with the rally. U should hook up - Tim was awesome for the courthouse Rally.
Meanwhile I will be in Mexico Jan 8 through Jan 20, so won’t be able to do much for the rally in that period. I think the Facebook event alone should bring in a lotta folks.
December 30th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
LOL Tim: “Spineless, gutless, nequam” is what I got trying to translate “Spineless, Gutless, Worthless” into the Latin using an online translator. Tryed “cowardly” and got “ignavus”. Tried weak, and got various results, “inefficax” was my fave as I think it really means “ineffectual”.
So here’s what I would use: “Ignavus, inefficax, nequam”
December 30th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
“I think the people you listed below are just as much of a minority as the Sonics fans.”
But somehow every politician in city county and state is afraid of getting called out by virtual country bumpkins like Will in Seattle while nobody gave a sh*t about upsetting Sonics fans.
“The reason this won’t get passed is because they would rather use the money elsewhere…not that they are really all that scared it will cost them their elections. Its just a convenient excuse they use to make them look like the decision has already been made.”
Of course they aren’t scared. Everybody knows that Hitler could win a seat on the Seattle City Council as long as he ran as a Democrat.
December 30th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
# SonicBoom Says:
December 29th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Like the Seattle Group Blue Scholars say” Bring em back home, For my brothers and my sisters who have been gone too long, we say Bring em back Home!
I’m pretty sure the situation with the Sonics doesn’t relate at all to the situation that our troops are in.
Just sayin… it seems a bit… inappropriate to compare the two.
December 30th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
It seems clear to me that he wasn’t comparing the situation between out troops at war in a foreign country to wanting a new Sonics team here. I don’t get the point in going out of your way to call attention to a non-existent “inappropriate” comment in a basketball blog.
I guess now we all know you have the highest moral standing possible, yay.
December 30th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
But somehow every politician in city county and state is afraid of getting called out by virtual country bumpkins like Will in Seattle while nobody gave a sh*t about upsetting Sonics fans.
- They arent afraid of getting called out by virtual country bumpkins…but doing nothing is always a safer choice then doing something when there are two vocal sides. Once you decide to do something you’ve lost one half of the crowd. By doing nothing you still give the nay sayer’s their way while making the other side think there is still a shot.
December 30th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
I am willing to counter-bumpkin Will in Seattle, and CVD, and Apostle, and all the rest of the circular logic gang.
And again, I am surprised that a lobby of some kind would actually do what I am doing, and what the Okies do/did.
Co-ordinared communication campaigns are effective if you bother, otherwise you are at the Will of the bumpkins.
December 30th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
OK … for old-times sake … let’s talk/argue about Watson & Ridnour
Check out tonight’s line for Luke in the Bucks 100-98 win over the Spurs in Texas.
41 minutes
9/15 from the field with 2 treys
1/1 from the line
5 rebounds
6 assists
1 steal
2 blocks
21 points
Tony Parker with 19 points and 10 assists in 37 minutes
Looks like they had a solid battle with Luke going toe/toe with Parker
Just one game I know - but Luke has been playing pretty well lately and Watson has regressed badly this year from being very bad to totally crappy.
December 30th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
“Will in Seattle”’s full name is Will Affleck-Asch. We both belong to a Yahoo group “PSLightrail” so I’ve dealt with him on many occasion.
The guy is both a goofball and a hypocrite. He is also a member of the 43rd district Democrats. The 43rd is Frank Chopp’s district.
December 30th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Cool!! Outing people. Now, who are Apostle and the others?
December 31st, 2008 at 11:39 am
Another (not surprising) indecision on Christine Gregoire on the viaduct! Here we go again! Didn’t vote for this fool and Rossi, I wrote in Gary Payton’s name for governor!
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/394241_viaduct31.html
December 31st, 2008 at 11:47 am
I’m going to say this right now and this doesn’t apply just to Christine Gregoire but everyone in government in the local, county, and state level. I’m sick and tired of obnoxious people who make excuses like, “it ain’t Gregoire’s fault”, “the city and state did the right thing for letting the Sonics go”, and “oh professional athletes are getting overpaid” blah blah blah! You know what? I have NO tolerance for people who act that way and if I were you stay away from these people! I run a club in Facebook called “RIP Seattle Supersonics” and they are some obnoxious people that I had to ban from that site cause I got real tired of that attitude!
December 31st, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Brian,
Can you possibly address what would happen if this Convention Center deal doesn’t happen (sorry if i missed it already). I assume it would slow down any kind of attempt to bring back the Sonics, but more specifically the key question:
Does Ballmer’s $150m private donation come off the table after this legislative session? Any word on this?
December 31st, 2008 at 3:26 pm
equally importantly Brick Boom, i believe both Bennett’s $30 million and the NBA’s “thumbs up” for a KeyArena remodel expire in December 2009.
December 31st, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Adam B is correct, the state hasuntil 12/31/2009 to authorize funding for 25% of the renovation in order to satisfy the terms in the settlement.
If no team shows up by 08/17/2013 PBC is required to “cash call” the Thunder owners and deposit 30 million dollars in a Seattle account.
December 31st, 2008 at 7:14 pm
If it doesn’t get done this legislative session then there is a slim, slim chance it could get done in a special session some other time.
if it does not get done in 2009 then Balmer is gone, the chance of getting Clay’s money is gone, and you can kiss goodbye any chances of getting an NBA team within the next decade. Really this is the last shot. It is over if it doesn’t happen this year. get people doing something about this.
December 31st, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Decade? If the Balmer plan doesn’t pass (which it won’t btw. sorry, but the economic troubles cemented that a while back.) it won’t be for another 20+ years. By that point, people will barely remember the Sonics ever existed. We will be the crazy old people talking about the team, just like people talk about the old Seattle Chieftans and Seattle Rainiers. Sad, but true. If this doesn’t pass, it won’t happen for a while. If it doesn’t happen for a while, the less and less the chance at it ever returning will be.
December 31st, 2008 at 10:56 pm
I will very happily be one of those crazy old people.
December 31st, 2008 at 10:57 pm
But much happier should we get a team here, needless to say?
Here’s wishing you all a Happy New Years!
January 1st, 2009 at 12:01 am
I will likely turn into a heckler no matter what happens, I am just keeping my rants in check (other than at Deb Eddy at crosscut, it just slipped out, with a visit from ratcityprobate, I kind of feel bad for David Brewster).
I am not kidding. Some people check out, not me, I am Mr. Scorched Earth if this goes bad.
January 1st, 2009 at 1:21 am
Sup Baker: “Scorched earth” ? How ’bout “extracting a certain pound of flesh” are you channelling El Gran Cabron, El Senior Stern?
Feliz Ano Nuevo! And don’t make scatalogical jokes b/c I can’t find the tilde key on this f’ng American keyboard!
January 1st, 2009 at 1:37 am
OKC Thunder close out 2008 with a Home win against Golden State Warriors..the Thunder are now 4-29
January 1st, 2009 at 8:45 am
At least no more “luke vs earl”.
January 1st, 2009 at 9:30 am
being bitter and angry and not sharing it with those that made you bitter and angry is selfish.
January 1st, 2009 at 9:52 am
If, as xteve says Hitler could run as long as he was a Dem, then who ever is running against them I will support/promote/advocate for//contribute to in as a public way as possible.
They all have plenty of other reasons to vote out beyond the darkened KeyArena.
I am done with school in June, I’ll have a little time for that.
January 1st, 2009 at 11:37 am
The Thunder won the Pennant,The Thunder won the Pennant,The Thunder won the Pennant,The Thunder won the Pennant!!!!!
January 1st, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Folks:
Take a look at the website http://www.Ihateclay.com . There are some very interesting thoughts on this site about the NBA and the specific state of several NBA franchises. Many of us know that the OKC NBA franchise is in trouble, but not quite the level of trouble as is pointed out on this site. The amount of money that the OKC owners have lost since 2008 is absolutely astounding.
Also, the writer suggests that Memphis could move to Seattle by next season!
January 1st, 2009 at 4:48 pm
I want to take the opportunity to give my opinion on this proposal and address monq’s fatalistic assessment of the Key renovation and Seattle sports history:
First of all the Chieftans are now the Redhawks—They’re in D1 again and are playing at the Key today
Secondly, the Rainiers? C’mon you’re talking about a minor league team that was replaced by the Pilots which were replaced by the Mariners. So unless they won something worth merit we’ve got the M’s to complain about.
We’re here as Sonics fans for seemingly for the umpteenth time facing the apathy of the state legislature and electorate that could very likely dismiss this proposal out hand using the economy as an excuse. I’m not going to prognosticate the results of this issue when all of the cards haven’t been played yet. Case in point being the proposed federal stimulus plan currently being debated by congress that could inject billions of dollars into the state “for more important things” like transportation and infrastructure projects that will create jobs. Has anyone noticed that the tunnel plan to replace the viaduct that was once considered “way too expensive” is now being seriously considered again after the WSDOT announced only the surface street and elevated structure were the only two economically viable projects? Another point regarding the city’s request to retain 1% of taxes generated in the city for the Key and Seattle Center will also create jobs. The ’09 legislative session will mostl likely be a gut-wrenching, prolonged and hotly debated process. And if and when the allocation for the 1% of taxes is passed it will go through late and quietly. Almost like when the legislature grabbed it in ’07 to cover their budget shortfall for ’08. So take that for what it’s worth. There’s still a ways to go and all of the factors have not been considered. And that’s not even considering the UW’s proposal for Husky Stadium which is you believe the rumors that are going around will be funded entirely by private means.
January 1st, 2009 at 4:55 pm
Huskies are going nowhere..so put them off. They can play at Qwest if they have to. Get in line.
January 1st, 2009 at 6:09 pm
“I am not kidding. Some people check out, not me, I am Mr. Scorched Earth if this goes bad.”
That’s the spirit! And when you are able to pull yourself out of it, I’ll have a seat saved for you at the Rose Garden… my treat!
Portland is perfect… great food, great indie coffee shops, great public transit system, and great Seattle talent-led pro baskebtall!
January 1st, 2009 at 6:54 pm
Hey, Obama is a basketball guy. Let’s ask him for some federal stimulus already! I’m actually serious about this. He might be the only politician who has some feeling for our predicament.
January 1st, 2009 at 6:58 pm
“if it does not get done in 2009 then Balmer is gone, the chance of getting Clay’s money is gone, and you can kiss goodbye any chances of getting an NBA team within the next decade. Really this is the last shot. It is over if it doesn’t happen this year. get people doing something about this.”
-Would it be helpful to have a rally before the 1 yr anniversary?
January 1st, 2009 at 7:12 pm
Clint, I scorch the earth to plant something new.
If I am ever in the Rose Garden call the cadaver dogs, somebody is playing Weekend at Bernies with my dead body.
The Griz, Clint, the Griz.
January 1st, 2009 at 7:51 pm
At least this site continues to amuse!
January 1st, 2009 at 9:34 pm
Obama is building a basketball gym in the White House and taking out the bowling alley, perhaps he’ll have enough left over for a stimulus package to help create construction jobs in the rebuilding of Key Arena.
January 1st, 2009 at 10:55 pm
http://gohuskies.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/wash-m-baskbl-sched.html
January 1st, 2009 at 11:47 pm
I don’t get why they’d schedule the Coug-Husky game in Pullman at a time of year when Wazzu is on winter break. Why not play it in Key Arena since most of the students are over here right now anyway?
I see the future anchor tenant of Key Arena won their lone home game tonight. Looks like they just painted over “Sonics”, the court just said “Seattle” - blank.
Tomorrow is the 6-month anniversay.
Seems much longer. Hard to believe we’re just now entering our first full year without our team.
January 2nd, 2009 at 12:21 am
DBF, here’s a recipe for the holidays for ya:
Hot Mexican Spoadie (”ponche”):
3 gallons water
10 sticks of canela (cinnamon)
7 manzanas (apples)
10 tejocotes (crabapples? i dunno)
1 piloncillo (some kind of hard brown sweet sugarcane candy)
5 full cups of cut sugar cane
20 guayabas (”guava”, or substitute a fruit of your choice)
PS, you can substitute for any fruit listed here, any fruit will work
1 5th of Alcohol of your choice, pref tequila or something like it
boil the water & cinnamon sticks for a while
then add all the fruit, keep boiling but lower temp
Once the fruit is blandita (soft), turn off the heat.
Mix in the liquor, or better, serve the “ponche” in cups and let yer guests pour in the amount of liquor they want. Serve with fruit, and instruct yer guests to eat the fruit while drinking the punch.
Enjoy!
Listen to your favorite rock tunes. Dance at will.
Do not drive for many hours after.
January 2nd, 2009 at 12:34 am
I think rum, vodka, or even whisky would work.
But to be traditional, you’d use tequila, aguardiente, raicilla, mescal, … you get the idea
January 2nd, 2009 at 3:38 am
don’t forget to serve it hot
OK, I’m done, I promise!! It’s just soo…… mmmm, bloody freakin’ good OK
January 2nd, 2009 at 3:30 pm
4835 fans at KeyArena for Seattle U basketball.
That is pretty good for college, and a return to D-1
How long before they build a right sized arena?
January 2nd, 2009 at 3:34 pm
SU long term plan is to build a facility on campus. They will most likely start seriously making inroads when the WCC accepts them back into the conference.
January 2nd, 2009 at 3:34 pm
SU’s long term plan is to build a facility on campus. They will most likely start seriously making inroads when the WCC accepts them back into the conference.
January 2nd, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Our super duper task force hasn’t even met yet…
http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/story/582863.html
January 2nd, 2009 at 4:00 pm
No point, they do not know what the federal stimulus package is yet, they don’t know how much money they can shuffle around to make the SEIU happy, meanwhile Senate Majority Leader Lisa Brown is working the state supreme court trying to get the 2/3 vote requirement overturned so she can raise taxes, again, this would end up making SEIU happy.
It may be near the end of the month before any of this shakes out.
January 2nd, 2009 at 4:08 pm
As Brian states above, somewhere, they also need the convention center’s project numbers to submit.
January 2nd, 2009 at 5:37 pm
blunder owners aren’t financially breaking even as they had hoped and their franchise value has plummeted 50 mil in one year….now they are rumored to need a loan from the nba to cover operating costs. How long till they are sold to an out-of-town billionaire owner who’ll sign a good faith agreement to keep the team in okc?
January 2nd, 2009 at 5:58 pm
Major League turned Money Pit,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPz-j3bfq3E
January 2nd, 2009 at 11:39 pm
phenom, Where did you hear all of this?
January 3rd, 2009 at 12:56 am
Would love to see Ballmer buy them…won’t(can’t) happen…but we all would love to dream THAT scenario!!!!
January 3rd, 2009 at 3:35 am
have to admit that seeing OKC lose all these close games is a bit funny…
January 3rd, 2009 at 6:36 am
I saw Durant hit another game winning 3 and celebrate, it was another incredible shot. Only to have Carmelo race down and steal the game with another 3. I’m still pissed at Clay for stealing our future star after 10 years of shitty basketball. They’re ruining that kid in OKC.
January 3rd, 2009 at 7:09 am
Patches Pal, nesgodawg said, “I pulled a lot of the information from this article through various sources in the Wall Street Journal, Yahoo Finance and a friend within the front office of the Clippers who heard a rumor that OKC needs a loan to make it through the season.” Thanks to C’Mon Paul Allen for this link:
http://www.ihateclay.com/
January 3rd, 2009 at 7:19 am
“Speak of Seattle, from my sources the NBA is going to have a big announcement around the All-Star Break regarding bringing a team back to Seattle,” says nesgodawg on his website….don’t know if he’s going off a rumor t had heard or what, but this sounds promising.
January 3rd, 2009 at 10:07 am
Won’t be too promising if our legislature doesn’t act. Their latest foot dragging leaves me feeling somewhat less than positive.
January 3rd, 2009 at 10:37 am
“Won’t be too promising if our legislature doesn’t act. Their latest foot dragging leaves me feeling somewhat less than positive.”
You really do start to wonder how any of these guys have jobs. I understand slowing down a project to make sure implementation occurs correctly, or taking the time to make sure that a solution to a problem is implemented with the right goals in mind and how that can make things not move on a fast track. But in general in this state the entire political process seems to be ’stall so we keep getting paid’ and ‘push for small things so no one notices that we’ve gotten no where on big problems’.
For the life of me I can’t fathom how we’re no closer to a viaduct solution today than we were three years ago. Everyone knows that thing is a death trap and so far we’ve just gotten lucky the whole thing hasn’t fallen down. That’s what its going to take for any action to be taken on it.
Between the Seattle Center, the Viaduct and 520 we have the chance to create 1000’s of jobs and none of those can get traction because no one in government has the guts to stand up and pick a position. Insane.
January 3rd, 2009 at 11:41 am
# SonicBoom Says:
December 29th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Like the Seattle Group Blue Scholars say” Bring em back home, For my brothers and my sisters who have been gone too long, we say Bring em back Home!
I’m pretty sure the situation with the Sonics doesn’t relate at all to the situation that our troops are in.
Just sayin… it seems a bit… inappropriate to compare the two
SEEJ i wasnt comparing the troops to the Sonics sorry if you misunderstood. For the Brothers and Sisters i meant the Sonics and it fans and Bring em back home seemed right since they were hijacked to okla city. I didnt mean for people to take their lyrics literally in this instance. I thought people would get that i was talking about the Sonics to come home. Why arent the Blue Scholars on the bill?
January 3rd, 2009 at 12:45 pm
the Blue Scholars cost a lot of money and dealing with their record label is not fun. they’d be a great draw and i used to be a huge fan of them back in college. but the fact is that their uber-liberal political fan base is more likely to be in the “anti sports, pro arts” camp than the moderate, do what’s best for the state camp.
but Sonic Boom, i understood your lyrical reference and don’t find it inappropriate at all to compare that song to our situation. some people just get easily butt-hurtwhen it comes to the troops.
January 3rd, 2009 at 1:10 pm
For the life of me I can’t fathom how we’re no closer to a viaduct solution today than we were three years ago. Everyone knows that thing is a death trap and so far we’ve just gotten lucky the whole thing hasn’t fallen down. That’s what its going to take for any action to be taken on it.
- Yup….this one and the 520 Bridge is about 100000000000000000000000000000000000000xs more of an indication of how bad our government leadership is. I loved our Sonics…but if the citizens in our State can’t get mad about these two projects then they’ll never care about something like the Sonics.
January 3rd, 2009 at 2:37 pm
You really do start to wonder how any of these guys have jobs.
Folks love to talk about voting the bums out, but when push comes to shove, will end up voting the party line. Several posters in this forum bared that out with some of their opinions leading up to the elections (Myk for example). Unfortunately, the Sno-King-Pierce liberal powercorridor pretty much decides what happens (or doesn’t happen) for the entire state.
we’ve just gotten lucky the whole thing hasn’t fallen down. That’s what its going to take for any action to be taken on it.
Yep. Hey, why should we have to pay for our own infrastructure when we can just let the feds do it after the big one hits? In the mean time, keep stalling but make it look like you’re really thinking about the issue and consider it a top priority.
January 3rd, 2009 at 3:54 pm
“I loved our Sonics…but if the citizens in our State can’t get mad about these two projects then they’ll never care about something like the Sonics.”
For me it isn’t just about the Sonics. Licata and the rest said the Key and the Seattle Center would do just fine without the Sonics. We’d just have concerts and other things fill up the void.
According to King5 that isn’t so.
http://tinyurl.com/King5-Key
Yeah they stood up to the rich man. The problem is the rich man is still making money albeit in another city. It’s the little guy once again, the consessionaires and restraunteers, that is getting hurt. These are the people progressives are supposed to care about.
A 25% cut in revenue such as Jalisco’s is facing is enough to put any business under.
January 3rd, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Seattle U game had plenty of media exposure leading up to the game and they had 4800 people. That is 3000 below the Storm average last year.
Seattle U is not filling Sonics spots, they are filling T-Bird’s nights. The businesses around KeyArena will at least have that.
They are still going to be missing sonics fans.
January 3rd, 2009 at 6:06 pm
did anyone else see Tyson Chandler attack Joel Przybilla on his broken wrist? a one game suspension, even w/o pay, seems light for that kind of behavior.
January 4th, 2009 at 10:20 am
going to watch the Magic at Raptors in a few..I still love my NBA, and it WILL Return to Seattle by 2010 or 2011
January 4th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
The Storm signed a ten year lease with the City? Is the WNBA even going to be around in three, five, or ten years? One of the most prominent WNBA franchses, the Houston Comets, folded recently. Relying on the WNBA to help save Key Arena could be wishful thinking. We need the NBA back in Seattle-no ifs, ands, or buts!
January 4th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
do you guys think its possible we could get an expansion team??…I dont see any franchises moving in the next year or two?..maybe in 4 or 5 years a team will relocate?
January 4th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
by The Biased One on Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:46 am
It looks like the announcement would most likely be the sale of the Memphis Grizzlies or the putting up of for sale of the Grizzlies and the person who would buy or potential to buy would be Steve Ballmer.
So it looks like we are going to get the Grizzlies
Which is it? This is probably the same source that said that Mora was going to be the new Head Coach of the Huskies. Let don’t get suck into another person, sources.
January 4th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
“..butt-hurt..”
LOL I like that one
January 4th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
Ya, agreed I think it’s pretty clear these “sources” are mostly full of it.
January 4th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
It is true that a lot of the sources need to be taken with some grain of salt when it comes to figuring out what is accurate and not accurate about the Seattle NBA return scenario. Yet the “salt” is true that the NBA is very interested in coming back to Seattle if this Key Arena remodel plan gets done.
The interesting dichotomy is that there is probably some natural tension internally right now within the NBA between Clay Bennett’s ownership group and most of the rest of the NBA. The vast majority of the NBA would almost definatly like to see this Key Arena remodel legislation get done by the end of 2009. Clay Bennett and company, however, will be automatically be off the hook for the 30 million dollar penalty if the Key Arena remodel package is not completed by 12-31-09.
Anyhow, it is vitally important that we get this Key Arena plan done by end of 2009 or sooner.
January 4th, 2009 at 9:27 pm
The best case scenario–Seattle gets a team SOON….AND The Bennett’s team comes the Seattle to play the SuperSonics…..JUICY!!!!!!
January 4th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
“Folks love to talk about voting the bums out, but when push comes to shove, will end up voting the party line. Several posters in this forum bared that out with some of their opinions leading up to the elections (Myk for example).”
- Yup…because Dino Rossi was a horrible counter option that means I was voting party lines. What does it say about our local government options when there were so many people fed up with the leadership of the state and the best alternative they could come up with was Dino Rossi…talk about depressing.
January 4th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
Don’t know if this was posted before but here is rennaisance man, basketball legacy, musician, former Sonic and the only caucasian to have won the slam dunk contest Brent Barry with his ode to our abducted basketball team.
http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/points_after/posts/20181-a-poem-by-brent-barry
January 4th, 2009 at 11:45 pm
rings, I had not seen that elsewhere - really brought a tear to my eye even tho it was a bit corny in places. Brent really loves this city, and has the heart to share that love with all of us as we’re hurting.
I just wanna say to Brent that I’d love to challenge him to a game of Addams Family, or any other pinball game at Shorty’s, while sipping a Manny’s and enjoying the evening after watching the game at the remodeled Key Arena.
Thanks for sharing that link.
January 5th, 2009 at 2:29 am
Tick tock
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/stevekelley/2008590205_kelley05.html
I feel that time is going to expire and we will lose.
Looks like Steve is calling everyone out (SOS, mayor, legislature, ex-Sonics [he must have read Brians post], etc).