New Thread, More Politics
Posted on Monday, November 16th, 2009 at 7:09 pm by Mr. Baker (thinking good thoughts for George Karl))
Seattle city Council is getting ready to assign sub-committee assignments. Unconfirmed rumors emanating from Publicola.net include this:
City Council president Richard Conlin will announce new committee assignments for the 2010 council (featuring new council members Mike O’Brien and Sally Bagshaw) in the next few days, but PubliCola has a preview. Committee assignments determine which council members control which areas of city government; veteran council members typically head up powerful committees like land use and transportation, while newbies get stuck with the leftovers (this year, public utilities and parks.)
Caveat: Things can change (in 2006, infighting between factions favoring Richard Conlin and Jean Godden led to the unlikely council presidency of Nick Licata), so nothing’s final until the council says it is. That said, here’s what we’re hearing for next year:
. . .
Sally Bagshaw, elected to replace Jan Drago this year, will get the parks committee.
. . .
Read the story here, Publicola.net, Next Year’s City Council Committees, BY ERICA C. BARNETT, 11/16/2009, 1:55 PM
For those not familiar with Sally Bagshaw through her run for city council, or as a King County Prosecuting Attorney Civil Division Chief, she has a little video I gleaned off YouTube.
I do not know if this could have been better, but it absolutely could have been worse.
After watching the SeattleChannel.org video it was pretty clear why she crushed he opponent, David Bloom.
It would help to her this rumor come through.
November 16th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
“You never hear about them because not many don’t get drafted. From 1995-2004 only 6:37 didn’t get drafted.”
Listen up, dude. You’re kinda being an idiot right now.
We’re not talking about undrafted high schoolers. We’re talking about drafted high schoolers that were complete busts. Darius miles, kwame brown, leon smith, robert swift, sebastian telfair, shaun livingston, jonathan bender, and the like. the ratio is practically 2:1, busts:success. and that’s even including players like al harrington, and defining them as “successes.”
November 16th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
My apologies dude. Maybe I read this wrong….
“Before the age restriction, HS kids were declaring left and right. They’d hire an agent, not get drafted and be ineligible for college athletics. It was a complete disaster for those kids. And for every Kobe, there was 20 busts. It not only ruined the kids, it was hurting college hoops.” - John
November 17th, 2009 at 12:15 am
http://m.seattlepi.com/spi/db_12875/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=lhCey0Bq&detailindex=1&pn=0&ps=4&full=true#display
Paul Allen has cancer, again. Sounds like he has the attitude to beat it.
November 17th, 2009 at 12:33 am
BTW, i now have 61 votes for my idea i posted a few days ago. (not all of them have been from this site.)
November 17th, 2009 at 10:01 am
Bill Simmons…in town…tonight…at Sport Restaurant.
Still trying to plow through his book…but he was a pretty big supporter. He signs old articles as well. So maybe you can get his old article with all the Sonics Memories signed by him.
November 17th, 2009 at 10:13 am
Don’t get me wrong there are plenty of HS busts. But there are plenty of college graduate busts too. Isn’t it the scouts/gms job to make those evaluations and decisions? Its risk a reward proposition. In the real world people make those decisions all the time. In the real world there generally isn’t an age limit.
- In the Real World people don’t make that decision all the time. We don’t take promising young doctors out of medical school the first year. Basically, any job that pays millions of dollars typically takes years of training and experience.
I know my job requires a college degree and here is where I agree with Menace. At this point, I barely remember the actual things I learned at UW (Poly Sci major)…I’m sure if I sat down and reviewed it’d come back to me. But, in practical purposes I use very little of the actual knowledge I studied in school. However, my job still requires me to have a degree. They require that because they know (or at least assume) that if I put in the work to get a degree I am probably relatively intelligent and most likely a reliable worker. This is no different in the NBA. Personally, I think the NFL does it best. Three years gives the most stability and for both the NCAA and the NBA. I do not think its a coincidence that those two sports are becoming the two most popular in the US.
I guess I feel bad for the players…I actually feel worse for players like Robert Swift because those are the ones who would really get killed by the age limit. But, its hard to feel too much pain for someone who doesn’t deserve millions to not get them.
November 17th, 2009 at 11:14 am
Btw, Menace, I didn’t mean to call you an idiot. My apologies.
November 17th, 2009 at 11:29 am
There will be no special session. http://www.theolympian.com/southsound/story/1039128.html
Let’s hope Ballmer stays on board as we look at other options going forward.
Any cause for hope, Mr. B or BR?
November 17th, 2009 at 11:46 am
We dont have any options. The league is going down the sh*tter, our leadership is impotent and outside of Simmons the national media could care less. It’s over, it’s been over.
November 17th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
I am kind of an idiot. I’ll be the first to admit it too.
“In the Real World people don’t make that decision all the time. We don’t take promising young doctors out of medical school the first year. Basically, any job that pays millions of dollars typically takes years of training and experience.”
True. But I’m thinking more on the average joe level. The sales industry for example. You don’t need a degree. You can hire the money hungry kid right out of HS or the educated college grad. The college grad may have better social skills, but in the end the degree isn’t going to make him a better salesman. Its going to depend on the individual. As a manager its your choice as to who you go with. But then again the NBA isn’t necessarily an average Joe job.
A degree definitely opens more doors. Fair or not. But I think the socialization/experience you get from college is as important, if not more, than the degree itself. Thats something Rob Swift will never be able to get back.
Bill Simmons rules!!
November 17th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
There is a revised substitute bill in the Senate ways and Means committee documents.
http://tinyurl.com/yclvqc5
Most major committees meet the first week of December for working sessions.
Hope involves emotional predictions, I’ll stay away from predictions.
Will the legislature have a special session? That is unlikely.
If they pass that bill in January or February would Ballmer still be in? I have never known any of that information.
There are a bunch of other things this bill pays for that are being cut off at the county, things much more important than this, unless you want to count jobs as important.
November 17th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
A degree definitely opens more doors. Fair or not. But I think the socialization/experience you get from college is as important, if not more, than the degree itself. Thats something Rob Swift will never be able to get back.
- We are on the same page Menace. I don’t even think that playing in College actually does THAT much more in improving your actual playing level as opposed to going straight into the NBA. I have little doubt that if Robert Swift had been forced to go to USC that he’d have shown he wasn’t really a very good player. Just like I don’t have any doubt that LeBron would’ve led whatever school he played for to greatness in College.
But, one thing I do think the kids do learn is how to better handle the NBA commitments. Can you imagine when you were 18 being told: “here is $5 million dollars…now you will be flying around the country (for some its the first time ever) and playing basketball and each night you have hundreds of girls…many of them drop dead gorgeous…willing to do whatever crazy thing you are into”…honestly, its a wonder that there aren’t more F’ups in the league. That has to be amazingly difficult to adjust to.
November 17th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
Baker:
Thanks for the video post of Sally Bagshaw. I was watching it and suddenly I was vaulted into a Gary Newman industrial music induced acid flashback until I realized that . . . wait a second . . . for some reason, somebody actually has overlayed a Gary Newman soundtrack so that we can’t hear a word of Bagshaw is actually saying.
The video is quite bizzare, and I dare say . . . trippy. I’m glad she is a city council woman.
November 17th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
I just watched the video again, and I am not having the same auditory experience as you are having.
November 17th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Oh how embarrasing! I forgot that I had pandora internet radio running in the background as I had turned down my volume on my speakers. I turned up the volume to hear what Bagshaw had to say, only to get an earful of what turned out to be Gary Newman’s “Down in the Park.” — a strange choice for a campaign promo. I turned down the volume immediately after watching and had no idea what happened until I read your response.
Now that I know what happenned, I can only compare the experience to listening to the beginning of Dark Side of the Moon while watching The Wizard of Oz. I kept trying to figure out if the sychronicity was intentional.
November 17th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
“I turned up the volume to hear what Bagshaw had to say, only to get an earful of what turned out to be Gary Newman’s “Down in the Park.” — a strange choice for a campaign promo. ”
Wow, I think I have to try that now.
Update: just did, hehehe. I think it certainly lends the video the surrealistic touch it needs to accurately represent the Seattle Silly Council.
“We are not lovers, we are not romantics, we are here to serve you, A different face, but the words never change.”
November 17th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
http://www.forbes.com/2009/11/16/unhealthy-healthy-states-lifestyle-health-states-top_chart.html?partner=msnhealth
Nice work OKC. As always, F OKC.
November 17th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
This is from the Times article on the 520 Bridge. If this doesn’t summarize our State Legislature then I don’t know what could:
Chopp argued that since the completion date isn’t until 2018 anyway, there’s still time to listen to bridge neighbors and work out a solution that avoids more controversy and lawsuits. “I’m asking people to continue this dialogue to avoid the potential for lengthy opposition or litigation,” he said.
Eddy said that design talks have been under way for 12 years, and “I think it is fair to say we are not acting precipitously. … Our charge is to represent the entire Puget Sound region, the users of the bridge both in HOV lanes and general-purpose lanes that exist now, and most importantly the transit that will exist eventually.”
You could take these two paragraphs and show anyone not familiar with Seattle politics and then go…hey guy number two is considered the “crazy” one…and the alien would just laugh.
November 17th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
just curious, when SOS met with Dow Constantine, did he mention anything about still being supportive and finding another deal if ballmer left? in his KJR interview, he seemed to assume ballmer would stay in, with him saying that it would be “very hard” to get them to have a special session yet he would still work with ballmer to “meet him half way”. just wondering if has had talks with ballmer, or he was just assuming.
November 18th, 2009 at 12:17 am
I am assuming that Clay Bennett is going to get away to not pay the 35 millions that fatso Nickels made bad deal? If there is no special sessions?
November 18th, 2009 at 12:41 am
If you check out http://www.ihateclay.com/
Has a recap of my encounter with Simmons and a couple pictures as well.
November 18th, 2009 at 12:57 am
Unbelievable Seattle signing. My favorite of the tour. Sonics fans showed up in force. STILL AN NBA CITY. Thanks to everyone.
about 1 hour ago from UberTwitter
- Good job to everyone who went…
November 18th, 2009 at 10:12 am
http://www.delcotimes.com/articles/2009/11/18/sports/doc4b037d72eaa47782623659.txt
76ers issues
November 18th, 2009 at 11:27 am
God I hate OKC!
http://okcthunderfans.com/vforum/showthread.php?t=2964
November 18th, 2009 at 11:59 am
There were a lot of people in Supes gear at the Simmons’ deal. Really cool.
November 18th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
We all hate OKC, but your credibility is shot and they’re calling you out in it. All goes back to how completely f*cked we all are.
November 18th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
Granted I gave out what proved to be false information over a year ago, but I heard rumors and got excited. I’ve learned to take it with a grain of salt everything I hear now. I just got excited and beyond all consiousness went on the hope that they were going to be right.
And it killed me that I was wrong.
Now I just vent.
Though I haven’t blogged too much recently because of other endeavors, I still get so pissed off at people who think it is okay for what happened to us.
I mean why do most people think it’s okay for a franchise with so much history and die hard fans get ripped out of a city. Is it because the national media doesn’t care about Seattle? Will there be any uproar if the Bucks, Pacers and Grizzlies all move with in a couple year span?
But at that point is it just how the NBA is and we just need to accept it, just as long as the Knicks, Lakers, Celtics and Bulls remain in their respective cities?
Why would the people outside of those cities then care?
Okay, done ranting.
November 18th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Kevin you hate OKC. You hate Clay Bennett. You hate the Thunder. We get it man, you are full of hate. I think alot of us that love this blog would appreciate it if you used your voice to actually put out real content instead of some of the absolute garbage that you have posted in the past. I mean honestly I think you make us look worse when you post things that have no basis in fact. Just because you wish something to be true, doesnt make it so.
November 18th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Bashing the entire city of OKC is only going to keep the NBA fans divided and fighting amongst ourselves when there is a bigger problem that looms over all of us.
I think the conversation should be more about:
I wonder if the teachers in OKC are fans of the Blunder? hey there goes Kevin Ollie with my salary, omg is that Thabo with my schools protractor? Who cares we are big league look at all of our bricks.
http://newsok.com/schools-facing-cuts-official-says/article/3418058
November 18th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
My buddies that went said about 500+ people showed up to Bill Simmons? and maybe half were wearing sonics gear. Can anyone give out their impressions?
November 18th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
http://okc.about.com/b/2009/06/02/new-ford-center-scoreboard-plans-unveiled.htm
this is a follow up article about my previous post.
November 18th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
I get what you are saying and I’ve changed what I’ve been posting greatly since the beginning. I got a huge piece coming up on the impending lockout that is going to be great and you will all love it and lots of good points made, got some good interviews too.
And Criminy… I’d say it was 500 plus, lots of Sonics gear and some people were ballsy enough to wear Lakers and Colts swag.
November 18th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Interesting story..
I had a connection flight from Salt Lake to Tulsa a couple months ago and had an interesting conversation with the fellow next to me. He was an attorney in Tulsa, and a die-hard sports fan. He told me everyone (generalizing obviously) in Tulsa hates the Thunder. He said Tulsa and OKC have major high school sports rivalry’s , but Clay alienated the Tulsa market by putting “CITY” after Oklahoma. He has not been to a game, and didn’t even know who they drafted. Yet he knew everything there was to know about the Utah Jazz (”his” team), and every other major team in the league. I just thought I’d share that little story.. I got a good laugh out of it.
November 18th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
1) Love that OKC suddenly hates Bill Simmons. I’ve never seen a City so desperate for validation.
2) Love even more that almost everyone one of their posters said: “I used to go to Sonicscentral.com”…cracks me up. Who are these people who go onto blogs discussing things they are completely against.
In the end…I don’t think there is any coinceidence that OK Thunder and Oregon Ducks start with the a zero. They are two of the most similar fan groups I’ve ever seen. Its hard to be mad at them any more. Its pretty clear just how much they need the NBA to feel good about themselves.
November 18th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Bashing the entire city of OKC is only going to keep the NBA fans divided and fighting amongst ourselves when there is a bigger problem that looms over all of us.
- NBA Fans are already divided. I don’t think what Seattle thinks about OKC has any bearing on if the NBA will return to Seattle. But, I will say I think OKC is WONDERFUL…they need the pick me up. Plus, I don’t want some random OKC radio host to declare a war on me like he declared war on Nick Collison or that writer Bill Simmons who lives in Seattle (LOL)…
November 18th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
November 18th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
It had to be 500 plus easy. My buddy was claiming 1000. I’m not good at estimating stuff like that. The place was packed.
The line started outside on the westside of the building it was about half a block long. Then it went around the the corner for another 50 yards or so….then went into through the lobby where it spiraled a couple times before you could even get into Sport.
November 18th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
It had to be 500 plus easy. My buddy was claiming 1000. I’m not good at estimating stuff like that. The place was packed.
The line started outside on the westside of the building it was about half a block long. Then it went around the the corner for another 50 yards or so….then went into through the lobby where it spiraled a couple times before you could even get into Sport.
- Pretty amazing considering there wasn’t a lot of press about the event. Shows just how many readers the guy has…and how many fans of basketball there are in this city.
November 18th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
I don’t have a problem with OKC, or a good deal of its fans. What I have a big problem with is these people who feel like they deserve the team more than we do, or that we don’t deserve a new team and we’re nothing but a bunch of whiners. They claim that we lost the team because we didn’t support it and now that we are fighting for a new team they say we need to just “get over it.”
Is relocation just the business of sports? Sure. But most owners don’t use lies, deceit and yes, even perjury to relocate a team.
November 18th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
http://okc.about.com/b/2009/06/02/new-ford-center-scoreboard-plans-unveiled.htm
Aren’t they behind schedule on paying for the Ford Center? Now they’re going to tack an extra $3M onto it?
November 18th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
Yeah, last I heard they were way behind schedule and they may have to tap into other city monies to get it back on track.
Guess they needed more than that 1 cent tax increase.
November 18th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
Great Post Taylor Made:
“I don’t have a problem with OKC, or a good deal of its fans. What I have a big problem with is these people who feel like they deserve the team more than we do, or that we don’t deserve a new team and we’re nothing but a bunch of whiners. They claim that we lost the team because we didn’t support it and now that we are fighting for a new team they say we need to just “get over it.”
Is relocation just the business of sports? Sure. But most owners don’t use lies, deceit and yes, even perjury to relocate a team.”
Sums up pretty much everything how I feel about OKC fans. We supported our team for frickin’ 41 goddamn years. how much longer do you jokers need?
November 18th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
“Plus, I don’t want some random OKC radio host to declare a war on me like he declared war on Nick Collison or that writer Bill Simmons who lives in Seattle (LOL)…”
Yeah no sh*t. I also noticed that they referred to Simmons as a “journalist.” Yea i guess he’s just some random bum who’s book is #1 on the new york times best selling list, that’s all. no big deal. of course, can’t expect an okie to know how to read in the first place, so why the F do they care.
November 18th, 2009 at 4:00 pm
criminy: that’s actually a good point. have any lawyers close to SOS talked about whether bennett or anyone else could be investigated for perjury?
November 18th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
I remember Jim Moore interviewing a local lawyer during the lease trial. He said it was “unlikely” that Bennett would be charged with perjury. And that was before the settlement.
November 18th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
The burden of proof is pretty gnarly for such a thing, besides even if the proof was more legit the chances of the city dropping the ball in court are still pretty high.
November 18th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
“The line started outside on the westside of the building it was about half a block long. Then it went around the the corner for another 50 yards or so….then went into through the lobby where it spiraled a couple times before you could even get into Sport.”
yep. it was way more people than i expected. 500 or more. Reidster and i got there at 4:30 and were lucky enough to snag a table inside. we talked to Kevin Jackson (Bill’s producer and local resident) and his crew of ESPN guys who were in from NYC for a conference. these were ESPN employees who had absolutely no clue what happened here and seemed really interested in why the team was gone. one said he used to sit in Stern’s seats at Sonics games and he loved coming out here, and he went on about “why the hell did they put a team in Oklahoma of all places??!”
they brought Bill over right after he arrived and we got to meet him for 2 mins. gave him 5 DVD copies of Sonicsgate, which he admitted he hadn’t seen yet, and 4 T-shirts. great guy and i’m sure he was blown away by the amount of Sonics gear in the house. hopefully he writes about it soon.
November 18th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
“these were ESPN employees who had absolutely no clue what happened here and seemed really interested in why the team was gone. ”
How the hell could somebody work at ESPN and not know what happened … that’s like someone working for CNN flying into NYC and asking where the Twin Towers went.
oh right … I forgot anything west of the Mississippi does not exist for that channel.
November 18th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
How the hell could somebody work at ESPN and not know what happened … that’s like someone working for CNN flying into NYC and asking where the Twin Towers went.
oh right … I forgot anything west of the Mississippi does not exist for that channel
Unless you count the Dallas Cowboys.
November 18th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
does anybody know when dow constantine takes office? i want to be one of the first people to send him a e-mail.
November 18th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
I think January 4th.
That’s when McGinn takes office.
November 18th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
How the hell could somebody work at ESPN and not know what happened … that’s like someone working for CNN flying into NYC and asking where the Twin Towers went.
oh right … I forgot anything west of the Mississippi does not exist for that channel.
- Isn’t that amazing? Although I wouldn’t compare this to the Twin Towers (obviously)…I think its even more shocking since its a sports network. Seriously, there isn’t THAT much that goes on in sports to keep aprised of the details. We know whats going on in Sacramento for instance. Its not like I spend my day doing research but its still top of mind.
Hope Simmons comments on Sonicsgate…
November 18th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
Peter,
When they were campaigning, and talking about the Sonics issue on KJR, Susan Hutchison noted that the winner would take office November 24th, as it is a special election to fill the remainder of Ron Sims’ term, and not a typical one. So, Chairman Dow will be the People’s man this coming Tuesday.
November 18th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
Um what the heck are you guys talking about with the Ford Center scoreboard? They already have the scoreboard. That’s an old article. Man guys lets make sure we know what we’re talking about before we say something.
November 18th, 2009 at 9:37 pm
“Taylor Made Says:
November 18th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
I don’t have a problem with OKC, or a good deal of its fans. What I have a big problem with is these people who feel like they deserve the team more than we do, or that we don’t deserve a new team and we’re nothing but a bunch of whiners. They claim that we lost the team because we didn’t support it and now that we are fighting for a new team they say we need to just “get over it.”
Is relocation just the business of sports? Sure. But most owners don’t use lies, deceit and yes, even perjury to relocate a team.”
Excellent post, Taylor Made.
Yes - Constantine takes office very soon. I wasn’t sure if Nov 24 was the correct date. YOu should be able to reach him at dow [dot] constantine [at] kingcounty [dot] gov
November 18th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
Xteve said: “How the hell could somebody work at ESPN and not know what happened … that’s like someone working for CNN flying into NYC and asking where the Twin Towers went.
oh right … I forgot anything west of the Mississippi does not exist for that channel.”
Nice - and so true, it seems, at least for most CNN-ers. I’m sure there are the exceptions who love and keep tabs on the GNW.
November 18th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
“they brought Bill over right after he arrived and we got to meet him for 2 mins. gave him 5 DVD copies of Sonicsgate, which he admitted he hadn’t seen yet, and 4 T-shirts. great guy and i’m sure he was blown away by the amount of Sonics gear in the house. hopefully he writes about it soon.”
Great work Adam & Reidster! Did you guys get any footage out there?
Meanwhile - everyone - please support Sonicsgate by donating some cash HERE:
http://www.sonicsgate.org/
Cheers!
-Speed
November 18th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
My god, what great memories: http://www.sonicsgate.org/extras/
And those music videos are so bitchin’ - I was particularly digging on the Jake One songs. Thanks Sonicsgate for sharing this stuff!
November 18th, 2009 at 11:30 pm
“Love that OKC suddenly hates Bill Simmons. I’ve never seen a City so desperate for validation.”
What are they mad at him for now?
November 19th, 2009 at 12:10 am
What are they mad at him for now?
- For having the audacity to write Eff You OKC in Kevin’s book last night…lol
November 19th, 2009 at 12:49 am
Yeah, they suffer from a severe inferiority complex.
November 19th, 2009 at 11:13 am
I have to say that while it’s great for Bill Simmons to write “Eff OKC” in a book, and that I’ll always not be a fan of Oklahoma or anything in it, hatred of Oklahoma and Clay Bennett will not get a new arena or a big renovation of KeyArena done. It will not bring the Sonics back. It will not bring the NHL in. KeyArena will be left to rot, excepting Storm and Seattle U. games and the occasional concert, which won’t bring in enough money to keep the place in shape.
A new arena should be built (or a massive renovation of KeyArena, although I wonder how much you can do to it without running into the same problems down the road…there’s still no parking in LQA). But it should be done because the people of Seattle and the Puget Sound region should have a premier gathering place for indoor sporting events and other cultural events, and we just don’t have that. KeyArena should be unacceptable to the people of Seattle and the Puget Sound region, and I still don’t get how arenas or stadiums can be built with wholly private funding in Los Angeles, Denver and San Francisco, but not in Seattle.
Why would Bellevue still be considered? I know that’s where the people with the money live, but they can get to Seattle. Many of them work in Seattle any way, and Bellevue is such a traffic nightmare that it just doesn’t seem feasible. Hopefully these private investors that Sally Bagshaw was talking about can team up with Ballmer and make something happen. Forget that the NBA says we need to do this. Let’s do it for us.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
I think we need to start pressing the people in power more to get something done. I constantly hound Kohl-Welles.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Speaking of Seattle U, our old buddy Mayor Dickless has declared today “Elgin Baylor Day” and tonight the court in Key Arena will be named after him. Feels a bit like the Sonics grave is being paved over.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
I agree with Ghost for the most part. My only disagreement is the thought that the arena has to be in Seattle Metro. The political climate in the city proper has never been very accomodating to this sort of thing and not allowing a wider search could potentially harm the cause. If someone is willing to put an arena in Bellevue, Tacoma or even Everett I would support it because it would get the intended objective accomplished. The sound and the Sonics fanbase is and will always be more than the Seattle metro and I think if that mindset is embraced a little more maybe something can finally be done, though I admit that’s a pretty big maybe.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
I should have been clear. I’ll take an arena that brings the Sonics back anywhere…just think it fits the region better if it’s near the two stadiums, creating a Stadium District, or on the Seattle Center grounds. I’m a Tacoman…we don’t have anywhere to put an arena. The Tacoma Dome is a traffic fiasco every day, even when there’s no event.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
Hey Ghost I agree with you, as well as most of us on this board do, but as far as San Fran is considered Key Arena will be the fraternal twin of the Cow Palace in Frisco. The Warriors abandoned that place in ‘66 for the Oakland Coliseum, now the Oracle Arena. But at least they stayed in the Bay Area. And there’s always the HP Pavillion in San Jose as well. My feeling is that culturally Seattle is headed in the spirit of Frisco but without the tourism and sourdough bread. After Jan 2010 if Bellevue wants to step up that’s where an arena will be. Just my gut feeling and un-solicited opinion.
November 19th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
Ghost is right on. We all hate what’s going on with the OKC Thunder, we get sick of their fans and so on, but Seattle still has an inadequate indoor arena, and for a region with such lousy weather 8-9 months a year that is unacceptable. Especially considering everyone in Seattle likes to believe it’s a world class city. Well, world class cities have world class venues. Seattle is behind the times with our arena, our convention center, our infrastructure and our transit. Complaining about people in Oklahoma isn’t going to change that.
Want to know how to prove to the world Seattle is still a great NBA city? Get a team back and support it. I hate that it means giving Stern what he wants but it is what it is. Trust me, no one on the East Coast has a clue what happened, half the people I talk to don’t even know the team moved. Sports fans only care about winners. 5 years ago the Cavs were the bottom of the league, now they’re on top, it’s because they are winning. Seattle needs to get its act together, get an arena built, get a new team and tradition of winning.
November 19th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Howie gives himself a raise.
http://www.ihateclay.com/howie-decides-he-deserves-a-raise/
November 19th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
I think it’d be cool every time Weasel Nick Licata opens his mouth about city budget deficits to post or say “Non-Sonics options pencil out, and that’s my finding.” He was the clown who said the city wasn’t gonna lose money at the Key … just like the most pathetic governor in the lower 48 promised there was no state budget deficit and she wasn’t going to raise taxes.
Your elected officials, Seattle.
I don’t think a new arena is ever going to happen in Seattle. Too many gutless wonders and naysayers. No matter what McBike said during the campaign he isn’t gonna support a new arena and I doubt he’ll even have the skills to get anything significant accomplished at the Center.
I believe that regardless of what Ballmer has said in the past, any hopes for a new arena will be outside Seattle City limits and probably privately financed and we’re looking at after the lockout. Bellevue, Kirkland, Renton, Tacoma, Muckelshoots, whatever. These are places that can get things done, can mobilize partnerships, get people to see the economic benefits. Seattle, yeah right.
That’s just the way it is folks. I don’t believe that anyone in their right mind with money is gonna get seriously involved with the bozos who run this city and state’s government and the people pulling their strings. They can’t even get it together enough to sign off on a piece of paper to take $35 million from Clay Bennett.
November 19th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Xteve is right. Sad but correct
November 19th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
“Trust me, no one on the East Coast has a clue what happened, half the people I talk to don’t even know the team moved. Sports fans only care about winners.”
In general Sports fans only care about their own. I didn’t give any attention or thought to when the Cleveland Browns, Grizzlies, or Hornets moved. I didn’t care because I had a team…..who at the time I figured wasn’t ever going to move. Its a little different now.
If its not in your market, or your team, most people aren’t going to invest much in the story. Thats just the way it is.
November 19th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
My San Francisco reference was toward the Giants, who built their spiffy new ballpark (well, it’s almost ten years old now) right on the water, with beautiful views, with completely private funding. No shady bills rushed through a Legislature or public votes. The Giants received a tax abatement (holiday) and infrastructure upgrades, including a Muni light rail stop, totaling $90 million. That’s it. They even pay rent to the City of San Francisco for the land the stadium is on. Again, this is San Francisco we’re talking about.
Why can’t a similar climate be created in Seattle where private investors can come in and ask for infrastructure improvements to either the Seattle Center or somewhere else in the city and build the arena with their own money? This is one of the richest areas in the country. People could make money doing this if the environment was right for it. The city could make money off of this through taxes of some sort. If they built a new arena near the other two stadiums, they wouldn’t even need that much in the way of infrastructure improvements, as light rail is already running near there. Shoot, more events in the city of Seattle means more people taking public transportation, including light rail, and more money for Sound Transit and the city. You could even offer incentive to people to ride the light rail, like a free ride on light rail if you have tickets to the game. The Minnesota Wild do that for buses in the Twin Cities…they pay the city a commensurate amount to what it would cost for them to make parking and administer it.
I, too, am down on Seattle being able to do this. But shouldn’t it be at least explored as a civic project? I just don’t get the head in the sand approach the city has taken on big projects, especially ones that don’t fully arrive on the backs of taxpayers. It isn’t at all progressive.
November 19th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
The popularity of collage ball, esp Elgin Baylor, was very high back then. Lots of people that have real money went to Seattle U games.
I do not see that as paving over, that is using real history to get Seattle U basketball moving.
November 19th, 2009 at 5:57 pm
“I just don’t get the head in the sand approach the city has taken on big projects, especially ones that don’t fully arrive on the backs of taxpayers. It isn’t at all progressive.”
heh, Welcome to Seattle! It’s why I permanently parted ways with whatever passes for the Democratic Party in this state. It took this whole mess to wake me up and realize what a complete and total joke they are.
November 19th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
This is perhaps good news. Sally Bagshaw will chair the Parks and Seattle Center Committee
http://tinyurl.com/y8mcsgl
November 19th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
Why can’t a similar climate be created in Seattle where private investors can come in and ask for infrastructure improvements to either the Seattle Center or somewhere else in the city and build the arena with their own money
- Hey…i want things to change too…but I dont think going to any sort of model supported in California is a good idea. CA is even more messed up the Seattle…
November 19th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
Geeeez…anyone watching the Suns/Hornets game? The entire enviornment is somber…even the announcer sounds like he’s announcing a funeral
November 19th, 2009 at 8:20 pm
They built a jewel of a ballpark for a grand total of $90 million of public funds, which includes Muni improvements that are in use all year, unlike the stadium. It’s about the only financial deal in California that made sense. Also, Staples Center in LA built for $375 million…not a dime of it public funds. What makes Los Angeles and San Francisco, two staunchly Democratic cities, able to pull this off while Seattle, yet another city full of rich, mostly Democratic people, dithers?
LA (1999)- privately financed arena
Denver (1999)- privately financed arena
Portland (1995)- Over 80% privately financed arena
Vancouver, B.C. (1995)- privately financed arena
Seattle (1995)- cheap outhouse of an arena
We blew it. I don’t mean to vent, but it’s frustrating. This is a place full of smart, rich people who should have been able to make something work. Clay Bennett and his cronies are lying liars, but we were ripe for the picking. It’s time to fix that.
I do have the Suns-Hornets game on…pretty sure Kevin Harlan is significantly under the weather.
November 19th, 2009 at 9:08 pm
That New Orleans crowd was absolutely dead. They should have been a lot more alive than that.
But Phoenix laid a huge egg tonight.
November 19th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
You make some good points Scheff. But the problems we face here as far as stadium financing (regardless of it being public or private) are not unique. Private money built Staples Center, but on the other hand Los Angeles is now in its fifteenth consecutive season without the NFL and is only now apparently on the verge of building a (privately-financed) stadium that will presumably lure a football team. Many other cities have lost teams because they wouldn’t build a new stadium with public money. I don’t need to recite the list. Sometimes alternative deals are reached to keep the teams where they are, sometimes they are not. You win some, you lose some. I don’t really know what the secret is to getting public financing for stadiums or for pulling together private investors. But it is important to remember that this is not a controversy unique to Seattle or to liberal/left-wing places (remember, conservatives like taxes even less than liberals). There’s no question that our current leadership sucks, but let’s not beat ourselves up too much.
November 20th, 2009 at 3:01 am
I attended a networking event last night at the Key Arena’s HD lounge… it was absolutely errieee to be there. It was the first time I stepped into the Key since that fateful last sonics game.
Although Seattle U was playing Fresno, and I refused to watch them. I cannot stand watching a basketball game at the Key without it being MY SONICS.
it was absolutely painful being at the Key… sigh…
November 20th, 2009 at 11:31 am
Gotta love Simmons…he sure is passionate:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmonsnflpicks/091120
Particularly enjoy how he rants for about 1000 words about how pointless statistics are…and then tries to prove he is right…by using statistics. So, really he means statistics are only pointless if they don’t match what you want them to say. Oh well, he really does provide the voice of most fans…hope he never changes.
November 20th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
And its pretty classic that he got a speeding ticket for going 90 in probably Federal Way…lol
November 20th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
“So, really he means statistics are only pointless if they don’t match what you want them to say.”
You Westbrook. Me Durant.
You do the same thing. So do I. Stats aren’t pointless but they can be scewed and omitted. Its what humans do when they discuss things. No reason to weaken your arguments by acknowledging the other side or fighting your own point.
I don’t necessarily disagree with Simmons that statistical analysis is more valid depending on the sport though. Money ball makes sense for baseball…..or at least it did at one point in time. Building a team or setting lineups solely around +/- in basketball probably isn’t a wise decision.
November 20th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Not pointless. Just less valid in certan situations/sports.
November 20th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
You do the same thing. So do I. Stats aren’t pointless but they can be scewed and omitted. Its what humans do when they discuss things. No reason to weaken your arguments by acknowledging the other side or fighting your own point.
- Im more than happy to acknowledge stats that prove me wrong…Im less likely to acknowledge someone saying just look at how he plays and all that stuff. FWIW…OKC has been better this year, right? Well guess what Durant is now responsible for a +10.3, which makes sense. Now you can start saying that he is starting to make the leap.
I haven’t seen him play…but it sure appears that he is playing better defense. Right now he is out performing his opponent 24.5 - 8.8, last year it was 23.1 - 14.5. So, while he has been slightly better offensively…he’s cut 5.7 points of his players production. That is a HUGE jump…
Building a team or setting lineups solely around +/- in basketball probably isn’t a wise decision.
- This is where the big disconnect happens…no one who does statistical analysis are saying “hey take this number and do everything using it”…
What they are saying is instead of going: “your number shows something that I believe (with nothing other than gut) so Im just going to dismiss it.” the person should try and figure out why what they see doesn’t match with what is actually happening.
Stats just reflect what has happened in the past. For instance Bill Simmons might think that Tim Thomas might be a horrible player. Heck, we might all think he is a horrible player. But, the stats don’t bear that out. Unless you can provide other evidence (other then “this is what I saw..” which is obviously purely subjective) then you’re just ignoring simple facts.
I haven’t seen the numbers on Thomas…but what Im betting it shows is that he wasn’t actually a horrible player. And…well he wasn’t…there as a reason a team gave him a max contact. He is a talented player. However, public perception has painted him into the “bust” lazy” etc. corner. This happens all the time with players. The public decides he has X potential and if he doesn’t reach it then he must not be trying hard enough. That doesn’t mean he wasn’t good it means he didn’t achieve standards that he didn’t even create.
November 20th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
I think that stats more times than not actually back up what we see while watching - i.e. Durant can really score, Reggie Evans is a great rebounder, etc. For me, what is interesting is when a stat appears to show the opposite of what you physically see, and attempting to figure out if a set of circumstances led to an outlier-ish number, or if your initial conclusions were off. Which is why I suppose I enjoy the Durant discussion so much - I always thought it was more a set of strange circumstances unlikely to be repeated in the future that led to his +/- being so horrible…
A stat I think that would help the debate a ton, but would also be a huge amount of work, would be to have a weighted +/- stat. If there was a system for weighting a players +/- depending on 1) the weighted average floor time of teammates PER while they were on/off the court and 2) the weighted average opponents PER while they were on/off the court, I think it would be easier to evaluate a players contribution.
I like the +/- stat, but if you have guys like Westbrook and Durant playing the majority of their minutes against starters, and a guy like Weaver plays well but the majority of minutes vs. backups…it would increase the relevance of the stat if there is a way to measure for the quality of players they played with and against IMO.
November 20th, 2009 at 3:03 pm
FYI - Maloofs fold WNBA team to focus all their efforts on the Kings. Interesting…
http://sports.espn.go.com/wnba/news/story?id=4674978
November 20th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Sacramento will move to Las Vegas..the Sacramento WNBA team will be sold or disolved
November 20th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
I hope Satco enjoys their tender grasp of their own ankles because they are next to be bent over by the NBA. I hope they at least use lube this time.
November 20th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
I think that stats more times than not actually back up what we see while watching - i.e. Durant can really score, Reggie Evans is a great rebounder, etc.
- Well most of those stats are pretty obvious…I was focusing on advanced statistics. Although, I doubt most people realize that Evans is probably the best rebounders of the decade.
For me, what is interesting is when a stat appears to show the opposite of what you physically see, and attempting to figure out if a set of circumstances led to an outlier-ish number, or if your initial conclusions were off. Which is why I suppose I enjoy the Durant discussion so much - I always thought it was more a set of strange circumstances unlikely to be repeated in the future that led to his +/- being so horrible…
- I agree. That is why I don’t understand why people think I think Kevin Durant. Or that I “hate” Kevin Durant. All I pointed out is that there was evidence he was hurting his team. I would only add that these strange circumstances happened two years in a row. It was a valid concern. Especially considering the team’s W/L record.
If there was a system for weighting a players +/- depending on 1) the weighted average floor time of teammates PER while they were on/off the court and 2) the weighted average opponents PER while they were on/off the court, I think it would be easier to evaluate a players contribution.
- Are you saying where you could rate the players who is on the court with a specific player and then the skill of the players they are playing against? Im sure that will happen pretty soon…seems like you could develop a decent computer program to develop that stat. I’m assuming people would argue that its going to average out over time.
I like the +/- stat, but if you have guys like Westbrook and Durant playing the majority of their minutes against starters, and a guy like Weaver plays well but the majority of minutes vs. backups…it would increase the relevance of the stat if there is a way to measure for the quality of players they played with and against IMO.
- I agree…you can’t compare two players who have completely different roles. Weaver actually leads the Thunder with some insanely high +/-…but I wouldn’t compare him to KD. But, that was my point prior to the season. Both RW, KD and JG all played a similar amount of minutes. So, that actually meant that RW and JG’s +/- were pulled down even more by the minutes they played with KD. It will be interesting to continue to monitor this situation.
November 20th, 2009 at 4:39 pm
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/huskymensbasketballblog/2010320144_dawg_pack_getti.html#continue
Since you guys are all big basketball fans I thought you might find the second part of Percy’s article a bit interesting.
November 20th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Are you talking the officiating? Its sad but true. I’ve done some officiating in the past. I’ve worked with certified refs that make calls based upon the score. Sad but true. If your team is up by 20 your not going to get the benefit of the doubt on calls. The losing team will though.
To really blow someone out you need to dominate a team and beat the refs too.
November 20th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
meant to write score and foul differential……not just score. If a team was up and their was a foul differential in their favor as well. The other team would usually get the benefit of the doubt until the score got closer or the fouls evened out. The blatant fouls are always called. But the judgement calls tend to swing in the favor of one team depending on the situation.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
Are you talking the officiating? Its sad but true. I’ve done some officiating in the past. I’ve worked with certified refs that make calls based upon the score. Sad but true. If your team is up by 20 your not going to get the benefit of the doubt on calls. The losing team will though.
- That’s really strange to me. Ive never done officiating over just casual stuff or things for kids. When I played though I never really sensed we got fewer calls when we were ahead or the foul differential thing.
Guess its just something I never really paid attention too…and weird how much the personal aspect gets in the way of things sometimes.
BTW…I wonder if the used Game 7 of the 1993 WCF Finals as a severe outlier…lol. Or…even worse…does this provide even more evidence that the game was completely rigged.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/2336262.html
November 20th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
“Sacramento will move to Las Vegas..the Sacramento WNBA team will be sold or disolved”
Kevin, does this mean the Kings sale to Seattle investors is in fact true???? why would they need a WNBA team since we already have one, interesting stuff Come on Kevin give us that Sacto rumor stuff again
November 21st, 2009 at 8:30 am
“A stat I think that would help the debate a ton, but would also be a huge amount of work, would be to have a weighted +/- stat. If there was a system for weighting a players +/- depending on 1) the weighted average floor time of teammates PER while they were on/off the court and 2) the weighted average opponents PER while they were on/off the court, I think it would be easier to evaluate a players contribution.”
Check out the following web site. It looks like a pretty valid measure of player performance. Only problem is that it takes a lot of data to calculate . . .
http://www.82games.com/barzilai2.htm
I guess the algorythm didn’t take, because no one uses the adjusted plus-minus ratio to evaluate players despite the fact that it was developed a few years ago.
But I do like the commentary that a our judgement of the quality of a statistic is that it simultaneously confirms most of conventional wisdom but also manages to reveal to us something that we did not already know.
November 21st, 2009 at 8:34 am
Regarding the use of statistics (and the discussion above).
Statistics never can tell a complete story, and quite often they are misleading. Therefore we should not use them. I vow never again to use statistics.
Also words never can tell a complete story and quite often are are misleading. Therefore we should not use them. I vow never again to use words.
November 21st, 2009 at 9:21 am
Wow! Over 100 posts on a site that had it’s team robbed 2 years ago. OKC still doesn’t have a fan blog even close to that. I’m proud of you guys, way to go. Believe it or not, this site is changing things especially in politics.
November 21st, 2009 at 11:49 am
I could see Sac moving to Vegas or more likely San Jose. They’ll probably find someone for the WNBA franchise in the Bay Area, dunno if that’ll all get put together by January though.
Seattle, nope. No building, no team. Nothing has changed.
I’ve been reading a lot of columns saying how this isn’t a bad thing for the WNBA, but I don’t see how it’s good. They’ve got the new TV contract that kicked in this year which should help keep it afloat (although no one seems to know just how lucrative it really is), but will the NBA owned teams survive a lockout? Can they go back to just eight teams?
November 21st, 2009 at 12:03 pm
Seattle, nope. No building, no team. Nothing has changed.
So what are we, SOS, doing to change this? Why are we sitting here arguing about whether or not stats are valid instead of calling politicos and organizing… something?
November 21st, 2009 at 12:19 pm
I don’t know if anybody else is noticing this but the Okies have one of the best young teams in the league. I know it is very early in the seaspn but I am hoping that don’t pull a shocker and make the playoffs , that would rub too much salt in the wound of true Sonics fans.
I am sooo mad at Nickels when the trial was coming to a verdict all he had to do was say lets see what the judge says. We very well could have lost the verdict, but then we could have appealed and the team would of had to stay here last year, and then things would have unexpectically turned in our favor. McClendon would have lost his fortune and they would have been forced to sell the team back to Ballmers group and the city would now be excited about a promising young team, which would have built much more support to renovate key arena. But Nickels didn’t act like a leader and played the part of a punk and blinked and like the great Gary Payton said when interviewed the fans are the ones taking the hit for this and he is exactly right.
While I am glad to see Seattle U come back to D1 along with the nationally ranked Huskies, because I love college basketball the Sonics should still be here. Thanks for nothing former mayor Nickels you showed everybody what a real leader is.
November 21st, 2009 at 12:40 pm
“So what are we, SOS, doing to change this? Why are we sitting here arguing about whether or not stats are valid instead of calling politicos and organizing… something?”
Unless you have the cash to buy a team and a stadium…….there really isn’t much we can do.
From ESPN:
Oklahoma City started 2-17 under Brooks following the firing of P.J. Carlesimo, but has since gone 27-36 — including 7-6 to begin this season.
Harden tipped the ball away from Caron Butler along the left sideline and kept it inbounds by whisking it behind his back to Westbrook, who returned the favor by tossing the ball behind his head to set up Harden’s left-handed jam that made it 111-94 with 6 minutes left.
November 21st, 2009 at 2:18 pm
This is Seattle nobody with any power does anything. Sad but true and we have to suffer because of it.
November 21st, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Sooo why are we even bothering here?
November 21st, 2009 at 3:45 pm
To talk hoops and hope.
November 21st, 2009 at 3:56 pm
And also remember what the Sonics was thirty years ago when they won it all! Take it from me who remembers it very well!
One last thing Greg Nickels, how dare you let something historical like the Sonics go after 41 years? I’m glad people voted your a$$ out! Don’t let the door hit your behind on the way out now!
November 21st, 2009 at 4:47 pm
Testing to see if this works.
November 21st, 2009 at 4:49 pm
Okay, let me try this:
It wasn’t too long ago that the Kings were one of the best franchises in the league. Now after a few down years they’re in serious danger of moving. It seems as if the NBA is becoming something of a survival-of-the-fittest league. Unless you are in a mega market you have to be a consistent powerhouse, or at least a playoff team, or after a few lean years you will find yourself losing money, demanding public subsidy, and being courted by all the vulture cities. Say what you want about competitive imbalances in baseball, but you don’t see this sort of thing happening in long-suffering smaller markets like K.C., Pittsburgh, and Baltimore.
November 21st, 2009 at 4:50 pm
Myk, thanks for the Bill Simmons link.
” I had just polished off a 20-ounce coffee from Tully’s — no Starbucks on this Seattle stop, in honor of all the Sonics fans who swore off Starbucks because Howard “The Traitor” Schultz sold the team to someone who obviously planned on moving it — and felt as though I had just done three rails of coke. I was wired and zoned in.”
There’s some great stuff in there!
November 21st, 2009 at 5:03 pm
I could see Sac moving to Vegas or more likely San Jose. They’ll probably find someone for the WNBA franchise in the Bay Area, dunno if that’ll all get put together by January though.
- Vegas would be interesting…after hearing and seeing first hand how bad the economy has kicked that place’s a$$ it makes you wonder if this is the best time to give a run at a pro sports franchise a try.
November 21st, 2009 at 5:08 pm
Oklahoma City started 2-17 under Brooks following the firing of P.J. Carlesimo, but has since gone 27-36 — including 7-6 to begin this season.
- Well to be fair…going 20-30 really isn’t much to brag about so you need to focus on the start of this year. The biggest difference is that they are a significantly better defensive team then they had been over the last two years. The last couple years they were one of the worst defenses of all time. This year they are in the top 10 (7th in defensive rating) of the league…that is an amazing turn around. Last year they were 20th in defensive rating. They’re also slowing down the game. That Brooks guy might be a better coach then PJ…who would’ve thunk that?…oh ya…everybody.
November 21st, 2009 at 7:10 pm
“It wasn’t too long ago that the Kings were one of the best franchises in the league. Now after a few down years they’re in serious danger of moving. It seems as if the NBA is becoming something of a survival-of-the-fittest league. Unless you are in a mega market you have to be a consistent powerhouse, or at least a playoff team, or after a few lean years you will find yourself losing money, demanding public subsidy, and being courted by all the vulture cities. Say what you want about competitive imbalances in baseball, but you don’t see this sort of thing happening in long-suffering smaller markets like K.C., Pittsburgh, and Baltimore.”
JAS, excellent post. I completely agree. Sacto was known for its rabid fans in its day. Now not only is that not enough, they need to build a new arena. It comes down to a broken economic model and these are the symptoms. Now we’ll see if Sacramento, Milwaukee and what other cities bail out the league.
November 21st, 2009 at 8:32 pm
“So what are we, SOS, doing to change this? ”
SOS?
Don’t know about them, but I am waiting until 12/31/2009 comes and goes. Clay Bennet is let off the hook for the money. Everybody else is free to work out other deals. I expect the east side to return as a destination, Seattle will run in place while the legislature runs out the clock (then they flip a coin).
I think there is nothing to do for the next 5 weeks. I do not see a special session happening. I do think there is a fair chance SB6116 passes, now that nobody cares, but it passes for a bunch of other reasons.
Ballmer is not obligated to Seattle, KeyArena, or that deal, beyond 12/31/2009.
No team is moving this season, no team is playing next season.
A door closes, another one opens.
November 21st, 2009 at 8:55 pm
Btw, I think the Monarchs folding just removes a complication of moving or selling the Kings.
The operation “sellout” they had been running is giving it all they’ve got feeling, but is comes after stripping the team and having the worst record last year. They look like they are both Howard and Clay, at the same time. I hope I am wrong, it just does not look like they will get a new arena.
They may be riding out the season and then going to see what the new cba is. If the model is not fixed enough then they bolt before the league resumes.
That’s my guess.
November 22nd, 2009 at 12:27 am
Hey all, haven’t commented here for awhile. I hate to be morbid, but there are some murmurings that the Blazers (and sadly, the Seahawks too) will go up for sale if Allen does not survive his illness, as his Vulcan holding group holds 100% interests in the franchise, and his sister, a non-sports person, will be the frontperson. While they signed a separate deal with the City Of Portland saying no moves until at least 2023, that may not be enforceable after Vulcan took back the Rose Garden. Is this where Ballmer comes back to play on the Eastside?
If SU and their Elgin Baylor court do just enough, you can probably kiss any KeyArena renovation goodbye.
November 22nd, 2009 at 1:41 am
I believe Allen will survive. He’s a real fighter, and everything they’ve put out indicates he’s going to fight it.
But if he were gone, I think it does open a door for Ballmer (and potentially a Blazers move to Seattle). That said, taking on both Blazers and Seahawks would be a big mission for one guy whose name is not Allen.
November 22nd, 2009 at 8:26 am
I was in Sacto working as a commercial painter when the Kings were brought in from KC. You’re right, they have nothing else and it’s really hard to get seats as they are always sold out,(don’t know about recently). I too hope Paul Allen gets better. He wanted to buy the supe’s but the nba said no.
I loved the rivalry but never hated the Blazers. What i meant about politics changing only begins with ousting mayor Mcsellout, i hope they’ll be more to come! Gregoire should take notice.
I see there are about 7-8 power teams with 3-4 stars, all the other teams are screwed. I’m only hoping for my sonics back. BTW OKC is barely big enough to have an NBDL ?
November 22nd, 2009 at 11:59 am
SU contract with they Key was just approved, they will play a dozen home games until they are D1, then they may play 14 or 16.
They draw, right now, less than the Storm, maybe the draw more in 2 years. But there is no way they can generate the same revenue as an NBA franchise does for 41 nights.
They fill the role the T-Birds left when they located to Kent.
There is not anchor tenant that fills the upper bowl, year in, and year out, like the NBA or the NHL.
One of the 3 ways the city can cancel its new 5 year contract with AEG is if the NBA or NHL come to town. Not sure why they had to include the NHL.
November 22nd, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Its funny to see how much the media loves Brandon Jennings now. Remember all the flack he took for talking down Ricky Rubio pre draft? Things change quickly when you prove your good.
Conversation between Joe Budden and Jennings:
Budden: N****, Ramon Sessions is gonna be there.
Jennings: I doubt it.
Budden: They ain’t go no other guards.
Jennings: Ridnour.
Budden: N****, get that bum-a** n**** outta here.
Jennings: He’s going to be a backup.
Nate Robinson is still a clown. Sideshow Nate!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGXDvb9zzm8&feature=related
Can the Seahawks be any worse?
November 22nd, 2009 at 2:59 pm
“Why are we sitting here arguing about whether or not stats are valid instead of calling politicos and organizing… something?”
The solution isn’t political. Wait until 12/31/09, let the dithering, do-nothing dumbass Dems of Washington State fritter away Bennett’s $35 million and then look for solutions on the Eastside to hopefully get a team post-lockout.
“Non Sonics options pencil out”
November 22nd, 2009 at 4:07 pm
I can tell you that Brian and Steve have done everything they possibly could to make something happen at every phase of this, but it seems the time of SOS leading the charge is coming to a close.
As Bill Simmons said when he came over and saw our Sonicsgate poster: “Good job guys. What more is there to really be done?”
We have to say in the ears of all the newly elected officials of course. Yesterday the Sonicsgate team sent DVD copies of the film to Chris Gregoire, Frank Chopp, Jeanne Kohl-Welles, Ed Murray, Ross Hunter, Dow Constantine, Mike McGinn and the Seattle City Council with this form letter attached, giving them no excuse for willful ignorance on the issue:
“To ________:
Here is a DVD copy of our recent documentary film “Sonicsgate – Requiem For A Team” for your personal viewing.
We produced this educational film to be a catalyst for bringing people together on all sides of the issue. If can get the right people in a room together for an hour, we can figure out a way to take advantage of Steve Ballmer’s generous $150 million private investment in Key Arena, revitalizing Seattle Center and bringing a cultural institution back to the region.
We look forward to a future relationship in which we can work together for the best interest of Washington State citizens.
Thank you for your time. We hope you enjoy the film, and feel free to contact us at any time with feedback or to discuss future possibilities. Many more resources are available on our website: http://www.sonicsgate.org.
Sincerely,
The Sonicsgate Team”
…………………………..
P.S. to the SonicsCentral.com faithful: If you want to get yourself a promotional copy of the film before we can officially sell it, become one of our Key Level backers on Kickstarter before Nov. 30th. We are currently 95% to our goal with 7 days to go! http://tinyurl.com/kixtarter
November 22nd, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Hey, anybody notice Pearl Jam’s new song Supersonic:
Supersonic, gone & took my soul
I caught the rhythm but the clock was slow yeh
Supersonic, truth be told
I don’t need you to live, but I’ll never let you go
….
Sounds like Eddie is going through it too.
November 22nd, 2009 at 9:28 pm
Who cares about any of this?
MLS cup is going on tonight… you guys should try getting with the program and jumping on board! Seattle is the soccer epicenter of the US these days… basketball is so last century.
November 22nd, 2009 at 10:33 pm
“Budden: N****, get that bum-a** n**** outta here.”
LOL. just thinking about all the Ridnour lovers around here.
November 23rd, 2009 at 12:18 am
thanks D_G - that is pretty much exactly what I was refering to. I’m assuming adjusted +/- never caught on with fans due to how complex it is, but it certainly seems to tell a better story than straight up +/-
I would assume any team who uses +/- at all would be more interested in the adjusted version, and they very well might already be using some variant of the authors equation - not that we would hear about it. I particularly liked the adjustment for crunch time/garbage minutes.
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:16 am
“Supersonic” isn’t about the Sonics. PJ has been pretty open about that. But when they played the Key they did a special version that was dedicated to the Sonics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkIwfelU1Ig&feature=related
“I’ve been bleeding the green and the gold”
Notice Ament’s shirt too
November 23rd, 2009 at 10:35 am
I would assume any team who uses +/- at all would be more interested in the adjusted version, and they very well might already be using some variant of the authors equation - not that we would hear about it. I particularly liked the adjustment for crunch time/garbage minutes.
- Simmons writes alot about how one of the biggest problems about the advanced stats in the NBA is that most of them are being done…but kept secret by whatever team is doing them.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:47 pm
ESPN just added the Friday night OKC game to their national-television schedule. Naturally it isn’t about the Blunder — it’s about the Bucks & Brandon Jennings.
November 23rd, 2009 at 2:24 pm
Simmons writes alot about how one of the biggest problems about the advanced stats in the NBA is that most of them are being done…but kept secret by whatever team is doing them.
Tough to blame them, I’d likely want to keep that info in-house as well if I was paying for someone to develop an evaluation tool - the article D_G pointed me to talked about Roy Williams having models developed for his KU college teams. If the NCAA is doing it, the NBA certainly is as well.
What is interesting, would be to find out how much of these advanced stats are used when evaluating draft picks, free agent signings, trades, etc. It might better help us understand some of the “what was that GM thinking?” moves witnessed over the years.
http://www.basketballvalue.com looks like it continuously updates the adjusted +/- for each player and each team - very cool site.
November 23rd, 2009 at 3:27 pm
“ESPN just added the Friday night OKC game to their national-television schedule. Naturally it isn’t about the Blunder — it’s about the Bucks & Brandon Jennings.”
As well as Kevin Durant and the potentially playoff bound Thunder. I hate it too but it’s true.
November 23rd, 2009 at 3:42 pm
Granted its early on in the season…..
Currently Hollinger has the Thunder ranked as a #10 team in his power rankings
http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/powerrankings
Mark Stein has them at #14
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/powerranking?season=2010&week=4
Pretty impressive considering just how bad they were last season.
November 23rd, 2009 at 3:44 pm
“B-Jennings is the first rookie with six 25-points-or-more games before Thanksgiving since someone named Michael Jordan in November 1984″ - Marc Stein
Hollinger has the Thunder ranked #10 in power rankings. Stein has them at #14.
http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/powerrankings
November 23rd, 2009 at 4:07 pm
What is interesting, would be to find out how much of these advanced stats are used when evaluating draft picks, free agent signings, trades, etc. It might better help us understand some of the “what was that GM thinking?” moves witnessed over the years.
- I think Bill Simmons said he talked to his friend the GM of the Houston Rockets (considered the most stat friendly GM in the league) and his quote was: “Why do you think we have Chuck Hayes on the team”.
If you wanna know what a good stastical evaluation tool can do…check out Houston… ranked 6th in the Hollinger rankings despite having $40 milliion in salaries on their IR…
- The Hollinger rankins are more impressive then Stein’s rankings since its not just a subjective list by the author. The Thunder continues to reap the benefits of suddently knowing how to play defense. Supposedly Thabo Safalousha (or whatever) is being touted as a Bruce Bowen level defender. Interesting to see if they will be able to keep it up.
November 23rd, 2009 at 5:54 pm
Yeah, how about that Rick Adelman? Eh, MYK?
November 23rd, 2009 at 5:56 pm
“I guess the algorythm didn’t take, because no one uses the adjusted plus-minus ratio to evaluate players despite the fact that it was developed a few years ago.”
Actually I suspect that most or all of the teams with statistical analysts on their staff do some version of adjusted plus-minus. For sure, Darryl Morey and the Rockets do, as described in this NY Times article by Michael Lewis (author of “Moneyball”, but Moneyball-style statistical analysis had been gradually creeping into the NBA for several years before this article was written)
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/magazine/15Battier-t.html?scp=3&sq=morey+and+rockets&st=nyt
November 24th, 2009 at 10:13 am
the potentially playoff bound Thunder
we’re 13 games into the season.
…and they’re 7-6.
November 24th, 2009 at 10:26 am
I don’t think anyone is happy about it. But they are moving closer to the playoffs than the cellar. I think they’ll be in the running for the 8th spot this year. At this point last year they had what…..1 win? 2? They have already beat San Antonio and took the Lakers to OT this year.
I never would have put them at 7-6 at this point. Would you?
November 24th, 2009 at 10:37 am
Yeah, how about that Rick Adelman? Eh, MYK?
- Yup…the definition of a league average coach…woo hoo!!
November 25th, 2009 at 7:52 am
Well at least we can shave about $75million off the cost of a future “green arena” in Seattle area.
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yhx9juw
Mr. Ballmer, will you build it NOW?!?
November 25th, 2009 at 11:27 am
It’s not getting built. They’ll completely rebuild Seattle Center and still not build the f*ckin thing.
November 25th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Sonicsgate peeps,
Have you recieved any Sonicsgate feedback from Bill Simmons?
November 25th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Want to get angry? 206 million dollar plan to rebuild Memorial Stadium.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010349160_memorialstadium25m.html
November 25th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
The idea of upgrading Memorial Stadium doesn’t make me angry. It sucks just as bad as the rest of the Seattle Center. THE ENTIRE CENTER NEEDS AN UPGRADE. But there better be the same opposition to this idea as there has been for Key Arena. Fair is fair.
But hey have the schools behind it………less public use but I’ve got a feeling this doesn’t get as many people opposing it. Hypocrisy at its best.
They should make a proposal to have a remodeled Key Arena to become the most “green” facility in the world. Promise to hold an environmental conference there every year…..PS they can have basketball there. Maybe that would get it done. Too many hippies here.
November 25th, 2009 at 3:22 pm
Being a kid from the suburbs…the idea of building hs in downtown Queen Anne…seems…odd…
November 25th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
The idea of upgrading Memorial Stadium doesn’t make me angry. It sucks just as bad as the rest of the Seattle Center. THE ENTIRE CENTER NEEDS AN UPGRADE. But there better be the same opposition to this idea as there has been for Key Arena. Fair is fair.
- My big question about Memorial Stadium…is if people don’t use the “lawns” that are already at the Seattle Center then what do they need another “giant lawn” for. This is of course the “typical” City of Seattle study. Comes up with scenarios that people can use, but don’t cover any ideas on how to make people WANT to use it. (see: Professional Lacrosse…or the Indoor 3D Gaming Arcade…or the Sculpture Park)
November 25th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
This is the best part….
“It’s unclear who would pay the $206 million for the stadium project or exactly what the school district would get in return for the stadium and adjacent parking lot.”
approved!!!
November 25th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
They do not have a funding source.
A levy in 2012 is “punting” the idea.
We need that hotel tax, the Seattle city portion, redirected to Seattle Center.
November 25th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
It is the random unfunded announcements that actually help point people toward wanting to have an actual solution.
The council looks stupid for voting for an unfunded master plan, and dumber by having an unfunded agreement with the school district.
It is a wish without a funding source, not a plan.
November 25th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
I just like how there is a “tenative” agreement with no funding. Key Arena had a funding plan, only needed $75 mm…..yet they were never even close to any kind of agreement.
November 25th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
ESPN predicts Thunder making the playoffs this year; http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-091123/seeding-west
November 25th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
I don’t think its all that crazy to think the zombies make the playoffs. The way I see it….
In:
Lakers
PHX
Nuggets
Dallas
Probably in:
Portland
The last three spots are up for grabs between:
Houston
Utah
SA
Blunder
Kind of crazy to think SA and Utah aren’t locks but I don’t think they are as good anymore. NO is a mess right now and the Clips are the Clips. Houston and the Blunder seem to be getting better…..while Utah and SA seem to be declining thus far.
November 25th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
Good point, Menace. It’s not the OKC is that good, it’s just that the rest of the West is that bad. Every team not called the Lakers is cutting costs to get LBJ or Bosh and it’s making for some of the worst basketball in ages.
November 25th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
“I just like how there is a “tenative” agreement with no funding. Key Arena had a funding plan, only needed $75 mm…..yet they were never even close to any kind of agreement.”
true, but with memorial stadium the city can do it on their own. with keyarena, you have to go through the state. tacoma recently passed a $30 million renovation of cheney stadium WITHOUT going through the state. again, there they can do it on their own. going through the state is always hard, especially this year with the worst recession in 80 years. i have confidence dow will pull something off to get a new NBA team w/ballmer.
November 25th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
Wishful thinking, Peter. Have you seen Dow’s first 100 days priorities? Know what he says about Key/NBA/Sonics? Zip. Nothing. Nada. He does, however, thank his “good friend” and political advisor, Greg Nickels.
November 25th, 2009 at 7:39 pm
Sorry, I misquoted the article. It was “friend and mentor”. Just as bad. Mayor McFatty is alive and well in King County politics.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2010348983_constantine25m.html
November 26th, 2009 at 7:17 am
How many times do I have to say Seattle is no longer a player in the arena sweepstakes? It likes the Key just the way it is, funky, and sees no need to make any changes whatsoever. Sorry Sally. I don’t know if you’re pandering or not but it’s too little too late anyway. I can see McGinn making a photo op out of the day Clay gets to keep the $30 million saying something like “Now we can finally put this to rest and turn our attention to more impotant things - like bike lanes!” Where is Jim Jones when you need him?
The word out of Sacramento is encouraging. Stern is basically telling the Maloofs that the building which they own is crap. Ballmer is poised to take tons of losses. He knows the cost of doing business in the NBA. He’s obviously not in it for the money. 1/1/10 can’t come soon enough for me.
November 26th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Dow’s not going to do anything. Clinging to that empty baseless optimism is only to lead to greater disappointment.
November 27th, 2009 at 3:24 pm
Dow, and the county, have bigger problems and few solutions.
The Vera Project received $25,000 from the county last year. That’s gone. So is the $133,650 previously given to Food Lifeline, which supplies food banks and shelters. And funding for nine senior centers throughout the county disappeared. Altogether, of the $4.26 million Triplett cut from the general fund for human services, the county council only managed to restore $1.2 million
And while Cousin was glad to see her funding restored. It’s only for one year. Next year the county has another projected $60 million deficit on the horizon. And once again, domestic violence programs will be threatened unless the county can get an okay from Olympia to raise taxes or convince voters to pass a new levy.
http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2009/11/king_county_council_makes_fina.php
The county, and cities, can nolonger reach into their general fund for arts, etc, and will be looking to Olympia to allow them to align revenue types with expenditures.
I expect Hunter to pass utility taxes for King County to use (just like the cities do).
Bills like 6116 get looked at for the other things in them, and what they can pay for that are being cut in the current budget.
November 27th, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Dow just happens to be on the right side of reality.
November 27th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
34 more days for Clay Bennett to get away, sigh….City of Seattle blew it again with new replacements!
We need a hail mary pass play from Ballmer to get an NBA team with full private funding for new arena. That is the only option I see right now…
November 27th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
That will never happen. We now have 2 options: either quit following the NBA all together or pick a new home team because we will never see one again. They f*cked it up for all of us, and there’s nothing we can do but watch as all of the bad guys win. I’m walking away, have fun with this.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
Calabro doing the Blunder game. Damn.
November 27th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
Zombie Sonics on TV looking good while trashing the Bucks. Damn.
November 27th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
Bucks are pretty banged up…..but the Zombies do look a lot better. They don’t play like the 2nd youngest team in the L. Didn’t realize Mo Cheeks was on the coaching staff either. Decent hire on paper especially with their young PG. Pretty fun watching Jennings vs Westbrook. Talk about speedballs.
November 27th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
Maybe we should start doing something being Blazers fans and stick our middle finger to the people of Seattle for their bad attitude! Take it too extremes people thats the way to go!
November 27th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
Also if groups like “Citizens For More (But Not So) Important Things” brings up something in the ballot like new improvements for parks in Seattle don’t vote for that either. A way to get back at Chris Van Dyk and his cronies!
November 28th, 2009 at 5:53 am
I watched about 10 mins of Blunder basketball, then i couldn’t take it anymore. Durant is who i thought he would be, a superstar in the making. Add to it that k. Calabro was announcing. I can’t wait for Durant to bolt ASAP.
November 28th, 2009 at 6:49 am
Been out of the loop for a while. So what’s the latest? If the city doesn’t move on an arena in the next couple of months, does Clay Bennett receive sole ownership of Sonics’ history, records etc.?
It’s just a bad time economically to push for things like new sports facilities. Seattle has become more of a pro soccer town based on what I’m seeing/hearing.
November 28th, 2009 at 8:43 am
Told you guys “they” were gonna get good. I’m just hoping as the season goes on they go through some long losing streaks. But on another note….I may be the only one on here who cares but I just read the sixers might sign allen iverson this week…as a starter. Woo hoooooo!
November 28th, 2009 at 11:21 am
No, I’m a big AI guy too. Used to have all his shoes, some Answer arm bands, finger things, and arm sleeve
November 28th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Contrast these two people:
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bal-the-blind-side-11178,0,3789718.story
http://nobamablog.wordpress.com/2009/11/25/obama-leaves-wh-clutching-gq-mag-featuring-himself/
Michael Oher hasn’t even read the book the movie is based on written in “06..one hard working dude..Great Movie!! Saw it twice..
November 28th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Of course the Thunder are going to be good. They tanked and stockpiled draftpicks while we suffered through the hard times and as soon as they went to Okie city, they got a real coach and started using up the draft picks that we earned. They have a nice young team thanks to us.
November 28th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
I thought they looked pretty good. Still have big questions of their defensive abilities. Sort of reminded me of watching the Ray Allen/Rashard Lewis Sonics to be honest…good offense, but suspect defense. But, if Harden can get better that’s a pretty decent team (which they shold be with 4 top 5 picks)…I’d actually use all the extra cap money to bring in three or four solid players to build around the core. People keep thinking they should use it to bring in another start player…but I think that’d be a mistake.
As for Durant…he played pretty well. Offensively the biggest concern I would have is that it doesn’t seem like he gets many “easy” baskets one on one. But, Im sure as he gets stronger that can change. The other concern I’d have (if I were KD) was at the end of the second quarter he had a smaller guy guarding him and Westbrook didnt even look to give him the ball to take the last shot. It was actually kind of weird. On the defensive side…he is pretty horrible…he’s just two tall (or can’t get in a defensive stance) on guys out on the perimeter.
I could see this team making the playoffs…but I’d have a hard time seeing them get the stops that were necessary to be successful. BTW…anyone see how much better Oden has been this year?? Looks like both KD and JO needed a year to develop. Oden would be the perfect Center/type player for the Thunder.
November 28th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Man, I love all of you guys, but there is nothng that will ever be worse for me than seeing KC announce for the um. Team that shall not be. Mentioned.
November 28th, 2009 at 6:50 pm
Two really cool things:
1. Slam magazine does a capture the picture contest every issue. This months winner is one of the OKC players eyes bulging out of his head captioned, “You mean WE are the team that used to be the Supersonics!” The winner is from the philippines, so its not only us in the NW who miss the team being here. Slam says the guys prize might be a copy of Sonicsgate.
2.A proffesional quality video of Pearl Jam playing Supersonics at Key Rena is now on youtube! Love the line “won’t drink your coffee ’till you give back the ball!” Just past the URL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q90VmGGzxTY
November 28th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
The Sonicsgate Kickstarter fund has met the $5,000 goal with less than two days to go before the deadline:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/533844276/sonicsgate-the-documentary-film
November 28th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
I’m with you Speedcat! It is very hard to hear Calabro announce for our former team…it’s hard enough when I hear him announce for other NBA teams even though I’m glad he still gets to do what he loves to do. But it’s another hurtful reminder that we don’t have basketball here anymore. Today I wore my Supes sweatshirt out and got a couple positive comments. I still have to represent once in awhile!
November 28th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
I also got to watch the first half of the “Sonics” game last night. When watching the game I couldn’t help but keep repeating “This just isn’t right. They don’t belong in OKC…..”
I thought they played pretty well. Whether we like it or not, they’re going to be a good team sooner or later. They have the talent and they’re getting the experience. As much as I’d love to see KD bolt as soon as he can. I honestly doubt that will happen. The Thunder have a great nucleus, they’re young and they’re talented. And whether it’s this year or in the next couple of years they are most likely playoff bound. I hate to admit it, but I’m sure he has more incentive to stay than to leave.
I still believe in everyone here and Steve Ballmer. We NEED to get a team in the Seattle area. I don’t care if it’s Seattle, Bellevue, Kirkland, Renton, Tacoma, wherever. It’s not right for us to NOT have a team. I know it’s not going to happen next year. But let’s do everything we can to get a new team here within the next 3 years.
I don’t want us to be like LA and the NFL. Let’s make it happen!
November 29th, 2009 at 6:41 am
Thanks Crazy7 - nice info
November 29th, 2009 at 9:15 am
D 11:59 am: You are 100% correct. We are the fans that suffered and died for OKC’s bright future. Yet another reason this whole thing hurts so bad.
November 29th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
Thanks to all our backers who helped Sonicsgate hit our fundraising goal!!!!!!
November 29th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
“BTW…anyone see how much better Oden has been this year?? Looks like both KD and JO needed a year to develop. Oden would be the perfect Center/type player for the Thunder.”
Oden does look better, but he is still very raw offensively. But hes still only putting up 11 and 8. The biggest thing for him has that he has been healthy. He will have to come a long long way to ever live up to his #1 selection.
Anyone else notice that Nick Collison got 0 run in that game? Has Ibaka beat him out for minutes? Was he hurt?
November 29th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
He’s averaging 11 and 8 with 62% shooting and 2.3 blocks a game in under 24 minutes. That is a PER of 23.0
Basically, he’s almost as valuable as KD at this point.
November 29th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
It all depends on what you value. Personally I value offense over defense. KD can win games for the Thunder. At this point Greg Oden isn’t that type of player.
Out comes the PER. What’s the +/- comparison?
November 29th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
Collison was in a suit on the sidelines.
November 29th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
Collison is out with a sore knee
November 29th, 2009 at 11:55 pm
Oden’s made a huge leap from the games I watched last season, that is for sure. Whether he is close to being as valuable as Durant yet, remains to be seen - I personally don’t think he is even close. If Oden could produce at the same level playing 35 minutes a game, then I would be extremely impressed - so far excessive fouling has prevented him from showing if he is capable. In a year or two, he could be an absolute monster though.
So far this season his PER is great, but his +/- and adjusted +/- are nothing to write home about. Durant and Oden will forever be linked together because they share the same draft class, but are such completely different players, it makes it tough to compare. I agree with what Myk said earlier that they would be great compliments.
November 30th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
Two different players. Two different positions. Two very very different situations.
Oden’s in a great situation in Portland. He doesn’t have to be the man there. He can sit back and play his role behind Roy, Aldridge etc etc etc. His role is to defend, rebound, and block shots. Anything they get from him offensively is gravy. He could probably help a lot of teams. Not a bad gig for a 35 year old 7 footer.
But considering how Durant and other players in the same draft class are playing and the fact that he was taken with the #1 overall pick I’d want expect more. It remains to be seen if he will reach his potential. But so far he’s gradually getting there.
November 30th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
Personally I value offense over defense. KD can win games for the Thunder.
- So…being able to outscore an opponent as opposed to just preventing your opponent to score in the first place is more important?
If Oden could produce at the same level playing 35 minutes a game, then I would be extremely impressed - so far excessive fouling has prevented him from showing if he is capable. In a year or two, he could be an absolute monster though.
- I agree…Oden’s next step is to start being able to put up similar numbers in 35 minutes. OTH, to be 27th in the league in rebounds while playing only half a game is pretty impressive. As long as the back up you are putting in the game is league average you are getting waaay more production from the Center then normal.
But considering how Durant and other players in the same draft class are playing and the fact that he was taken with the #1 overall pick I’d want expect more.
- While I might agree that KD as he stands now is better then GO as he stands now. But, I’d argue that GO is better right now then KD was at this time last year. Not sure why GO needs to be good right away when KD has an entire year head start on him.
In the end…if GO ends up averaging 19pts, 12rebs, 2.5bpg that is more valuable then KD averaging 30pts and 6rebounds. It is significantly harder to find a player that puts up GOs stats then it is to find a player who puts up KDs stats. Especially consdering KD kills you on one end of the floor. GO might not be a go-to offensive player. But, he is still shooting 62% so he doesn’t take stuff away on that end.
November 30th, 2009 at 4:46 pm
BTW…for those the watched the game on Friday. Did it seem like KD was really considered “the man” there? Compared to most superstars it didnt seem like he was the total focal point of the offense. To me, this is a really GOOD thing. You see LeBron, Melo, Kobe, etc. getting the ball at the end of halves and just waiting to take the last shot. I feel like OKC would rather play as a team and get everyone into the flow…still feel like the “KD carries the team” ignores that this is probably the only team in the league that has 4 top 5 picks on their roster. If Harden gets better OKC will be a pretty difficult team to handle.
November 30th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
Not much to talk about anymore, is there? I certainly don’t want to come here to read about the damn Blunder all of the time. Aren’t there OKC sites that do that?
November 30th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
I believe KD leads the L in shot attempts……so he is the #1 option offensively.
I believe the Clippers and Atlanta have 4 top five picks on their roster.
November 30th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
Couldn’t agree more, dbf. I still hold true to my boycott. Still haven’t seen a second since the last Sonics game. My interest in the future of the league with or without Seattle is dwindling by the day.
Good job stern.
November 30th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
Yeah, I’ve been watching college ball so far this year. Going to be glued to ESPN360 at work tomorrow while my Terps beat on Indiana!