Time for a Major Local and National Push
Posted on Tuesday, December 1st, 2009 at 3:23 pm by Adam Brown
If you’ve ever said “what can we do to be proactive in getting a team back” or “how can I help,” we are making a major local and national push for this issue and we need your help to do it right now
We’ve contacted every ESPN show, film critic, network news and cable news outlet in the country. We need YOUR help to get it on their radar and convince all of them it’s a story worth reporting. Please send them short e-mails like “Have you seen Sonicsgate yet?” (Sonicsgate.org) and stay persistent until you hear back or see the issue reported there:
Pardon The Interruption
Around The Horn
Outside The Lines
Email Form: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=1550773
The Herd with Colin Cowherd
SportsNation
Email Form: http://sports.espn.go.com/espnradio/sportsnation/story?page=email_sportsnation
Bill Simmons The Sports Guy
Email Form: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=feedback/sportsguy
There’s a lot more but that’s a start…
We have also sent DVD copies of Sonicsgate to Mike McGinn, Dow Constantine, Christine Gregoire, Frank Chopp, Ross Hunter, Jeanne Kohl-Welles, Ed Murray, Margarita Prentice and the Seattle City Council. We have also invited all of them to attend any night of the upcoming theatrical run at SIFF Cinema from Dec. 11 – 17
Please continue to bombard these elected officials with respectful inquiries on how they plan to solve the Seattle Center problem and bring the NBA back to the region:
Mayor Mike McGinn
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PO Box 70643 |
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Seattle, WA 98127 |
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Phone: 206.501.4275 |
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KingCo Exec. Dow Constantine
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516 Third Ave, Room 1200 |
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Seattle, WA 98104 |
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Phone: 206.296.1024 |
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Gov. Christine Gregoire
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PO Box 40002 |
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Olympia, WA 98504 |
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Phone: 360.902.4111 |
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Email Form: http://www.governor.wa.gov/contact/default.asp |
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And of course, we hope to see you out at SIFF Cinema for at least one night of the movie’s theatrical run Dec. 11 - 17. This is most likely your last chance to see Sonicsgate on the big screen, and I just received word that Sonics Legend Slick Watts will be in the house on Saturday night!
Get advance tickets here à http://www.siff.net/cinema/detail.aspx?FID=163&id=29288
On behalf of the Sonicsgate Team, thank you Sonics faithful!
December 1st, 2009 at 4:32 pm
Chopp says he also supports allowing counties to use hotel and motel taxes for housing, in addition to public art.
http://publicola.net/?p=19943
December 1st, 2009 at 5:21 pm
I will send everyone of these people an e-mail the second I have finished with my school work. I’m a lowly community college student so that takes up my time, but I doubt you will find a more loyal sonics fan than me. I started playing and watching basketball when I was 8 about to turn 9. For reference, the fist thing I ever remember hearing about the sonics was the headline “Sonics fire Karl.” The next thing I remember is that it was the year AFTER Jordan had retired and there was a lockout on. So I became a fan the moment the team started to suck and stayed loyal every second up until now. There is die hard fans and then there are never die fans. I count myself as one of the latter.
December 1st, 2009 at 5:49 pm
Adam - I just added links to the Sonicsgate.org site to the post FYI.
Big Chris
December 1st, 2009 at 6:09 pm
What good is it going to do? This is all business. Once somebody figures out more money can be made (or less money lost) having their NBA franchise here in Seattle, we’ll get another team. So, I don’t see the point in contacting anybody anymore.
December 1st, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Unfortunately I don’t think the national media will get as much out of Sonicsgate. IMHO it let the league off a little easy. The film spent so much time going over the local side of the story that the corruption, manipulation, lies and bull s*** of the league and Bennett was lost a little. This is in no way a knock on the film as it was terrific and very well done, but national media might only see the reluctance of local politicians, not the league problems. Just my opinion though.
When I get home I will definitely email everyone.
December 1st, 2009 at 6:13 pm
I should add at this point I’m so soured on the NBA and professional sports I could really do without ever getting another NBA team. I’d rather get a In-and-Out Burger in Seattle at this point… that would be more exciting, and the franchise would have just as much cultural significance– because at this point any new franchise isn’t really going to be the Sonics.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:01 pm
We’ve contacted every ESPN show, film critic, network news and cable news outlet in the country. We need YOUR help to get it on their radar and convince all of them it’s a story worth reporting.
What are they going to report? Seattle STILL doesn’t have a team? Front page stuff.
Let’s face it, our situation isn’t that gripping to other folks around the nation. Frankly, i’m getting kinda bored with it all as well. Maybe it’s because I lived through the first 40 years and no longer have the energy, will & heart to beat down doors just for the right to start from scratch. IDK, maybe it’s going to take a younger, more idealistic (future?) generation to get this done. A generation that doesn’t carry around battle scars.
Anyway, that’s just where this old fart is coming from. Best of luck with your quest.
December 1st, 2009 at 8:46 pm
the story to report is the new documentary exposing the scandal behind the move.
if you guys don’t want to do it, nobody’s forcing you. but some people like to do something besides complain and talk about the Blunder’s lineup ad nauseum. i’m as bitter as anyone but come on.
thanks Big Chris, Crazy7 and Eric.
December 1st, 2009 at 9:27 pm
Matthew - not to be a jerk but you’re wrong about the “all business” thing. as Baker will wax eloquent on, it’s also substantially about politics.
and if you think fast food is as exciting as pro hoops, you are probably on the wrong blog.
December 1st, 2009 at 10:44 pm
I do not agree with the interpretation that the average national media person will view “Sonicsgate” as being more about a local problem, than an NBA problem. The “Sonicsgate” filmmakers certainly advocate the themes that : (1) Seattle is a good city; (2) Seattle had a great history with the Sonics, and; (3) The Sonics demise and relocation was nasty and unfortuanate.
But, a great thing about the movie is that the viewer is further educated and informed and in a position to make their own interpretations about how to access #3 above. For example, most people watch this movie coming out feeling, like me, that the Mayor really blew various opportunities to save the team, yet I know one person, a critic of Mayor Nickels, who actually came out of the movie feeling more sympathetic to the Mayor. The same sense of differing opinions can be said about how to evaluate Stern, Schultz, and Bennett. I came out feeling that Stern is an especially rogue leader of a huge entity-the NBA- however, another viewer near me left the movie feeling that Stern was just “doing business.”
“Sonicsgate” is of course a different film than Spike Lee’s “Do The Right Thing” but I remember this 1989 movie succeeded in creating a lot of discussion about the behavior of the different characters in the movie. “Sonicsgate” does the same. In fact, the filmmakers reached out to pretty much everybody involved (including Stern, Schultz, Bennett, and Nickels) and allowed people such as Brad Keller (Bennet’s attorney), Tom Carr (a Nickels loyalist), Chris Van Dyke (arena opponent), etc, tospeak and give their points of view about the situation.
December 1st, 2009 at 11:09 pm
Chopp also expressed optimism about working with McGinn in the future, noting that “in the little time [since the election], I’ve already talked to him more than I did with the previous mayor in the last four years.”
http://publicola.net/?p=19943
Again, not having Nckels as mayor makes an impossible situation less combative. The 12/31/2009 date is meaningful to Clay, and reporters, but the point was to have a 5 year window, as long as somebody has an interest in being the private part of a public/private partnership there is a chance that something can happen.
What everybody should know, the economy is shit (it’s true). There is no money for nothing, none. General funds on all levels are shrinking. The only non-general fund money for non-general fund things are the so called “tourist taxes”.
I mentioned this somewhere, a month ago, but I can see the legislature doing this when nobody cares, for all of the more important things, and all the right reasons.
The county is beyond broke. The city used rainy day funds to balance the budget, and Mike McGinn said last night at his Town Hall in Northgate (I was there) that the city is projecting a $40 million dollar hole next year, too.
Funding for these other things have to get removed from the general fund discussion.
I was looking over the revenue projections from SB6116, it is over 870 million dollars over the next 15-20 years. That is a a lot of money (trifecta, a third truth).
Things are so bad that something might have to happen, rather than want to happen.
That’s what it looks like to me, and I intend to push every button I can over the next couple months, and mostly nobody on the list above. If something actually happens, great, if not, then it was not to be.
Rise Above
December 2nd, 2009 at 1:27 am
Seattle Sports Fan, that was a great post!
December 2nd, 2009 at 4:18 am
I wouldn’t p*** on any of these political knuckleheads if they were on fire. I would kick back with a beer and enjoy the show though.
Help KC my brother!!! We’re trapped on the boulevard of broken dreams!!
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:44 am
My high school classmate is an ESPNEWS anchor so I sent him the Sonicsgate link…crossing my fingers he gets interested…
December 2nd, 2009 at 10:45 am
Sure Philly signed A.I. But will they make him…. “PRACTICE”??
December 2nd, 2009 at 2:06 pm
go to town w/the publicity campaign. it can’t hurt. but don’t think that the rest of the nation is going to rise up in righteous indignation, or even care a toss, about what happened w/the sonics. they didn’t when it happened and the more time passes, the less they’ll remember. the key is to make sonicsgate part of the overall portfolio for getting a team back, but in the end, it’ll be men w/fat wallets who make it happen.
December 2nd, 2009 at 3:11 pm
It’s helpful to keep the dialogue open with the people on the list but I don’t expect they will do anything significant to help. I read the transcript of Bike McGimp’s town hall meeting and it seemed like half or more of the people there only cared about stopping the tunnel even after McGimp pulled his flip-flop. So politically Bike McGimp’s mandate is basically behind a position even he himself abandoned late in the campaign. What does this have to do with Seattle Center? I would not expect a political solution to the problem, budget situation or not. Why not? No civic vision and no public impetus behind it. All the head-planted-squarely-in-anus-mouthbreathers care about is stopping the tunnel.
My girlfriend and I went to the SciFi museum last weekend. It was OK in that you get the same feeling you get at EMP like browsing through Paul Allen’s garage sale, but it wasn’t anything I’d go back for. The crowds were sparse and I’d estimate 99% out of town tourists. Seattle Center has been dying a slow death for a long time, but after seeing it post-Sonicsgate premiere and again last week it’s officially dead. Somebody bury that corpse, it’s starting to stink up the joint.
I look for at least half a dozen owners being eager to sell during the lockout. This region can capitalize on that action but I doubt it’s going to happen at Seattle Center, too many navelgazers and Will in Seattle whiners. Look at the real estate, the day someone buys that Safeway parcel over in Bellevue that was rumored as an arena location is the day this thing gets real traction. Seattle Center is not gonna happen any time soon if ever IMO. The City will happily let it rot to bits and sell off the pieces for development or to plug budget holes. It’s what they do.
December 2nd, 2009 at 3:26 pm
I started playing and watching basketball when I was 8 about to turn 9. For reference, the fist thing I ever remember hearing about the sonics was the headline “Sonics fire Karl.”
- This makes me feel incredibly old…lol…and I guess sorry you don’t remember some of those glory years.
December 2nd, 2009 at 3:29 pm
The City will happily let it rot to bits and sell off the pieces for development or to plug budget holes. It’s what they do.
- Don’t forget build additional “great lawn” spaces. Like I said last thread…Seattle’s biggest problem is that everyone are “idea” people and none of them realize that even the best idea is pointless if their isn’t any incentive for people to change their behaviors.
December 2nd, 2009 at 3:35 pm
I agree with Xteve, we don’t have the leadership or collective regional foresight to put money into civic projects. Too many naysayers and Nimbys. It’s unfortunate the anti-everythings have the most sway around Seattle.
December 2nd, 2009 at 3:35 pm
Adam and Sonicsgate crew, thank you for keeping the drive alive!!!
December 2nd, 2009 at 4:16 pm
It can’t hurt to spread “Sonicsgate” at all. I’ve done it in a number of ways. But in the end its going to be up to the leadership of this state and those with deep pockets to ultimately do anything truly meaningful. Joe Smoe in Idaho isn’t going to get us a stadium. Most national media isn’t going to care…..this is an old story.
Efforts like this just reinforces the fact that we are a basketball city that deserves a team. Key word reinforce. Not a bad thing. But I don’t think we need to prove anything.
Did you care about the Grizzlies moving? Charlotte? Were you invested in the Browns becoming the Ravens? The answer is probably “no”. You feel for them now…..but at the time you didn’t care. Unfortunately I’m sure thats how most people feel about our situation.
December 2nd, 2009 at 4:22 pm
our pleasure. ok we are kinda nuts for this, but EVERYONE who comes to the SIFF screenings Dec. 11-17 will walk away with a FREE DVD copy of the film!
it’s the only way you can get a DVD copy for at least several months while we iron out a few things. Camp Jones is a mad genius.
http://www.siff.net/cinema/detail.aspx?FID=163&id=29288
December 2nd, 2009 at 5:10 pm
Cool promo idea Adam! Camp is the man!
December 2nd, 2009 at 5:40 pm
I think Sonicsgate can be like an STD.
hardly talked about and mildly irritating but will never go away. Something that should be discussed with your next intimate partner. Kansas City et alia
wear your history lesson jimmy hat NBA fans and or practice abstinence as Matthew is doing.
In the history of moving teams the Sonics situation might just be the most documented. Imagine all those Cleveland Brown fans who had rally’s and tore out their own seats in protest. Where was their internet and HD you tube? even the most recent team moves didn’t have high speed internetz and piano cats
things are different in this “the age of information”. If a tree falls in a forest does it make a sound? Hell yes it does if it has the internet.
DBF,
we hear ya, we are all tired of this crap.. all we are doing now is telling our story from the comfort of our home. the youth is the future of the Sonics, the geezers need to just let them know what happened and tell them to protect themselves.
P.S.Crazy7
mad respect padawan. We use to love it when Mike Wilks came off the bench so we hear ya..
PPS: Seattle Sports Fan:
thank you for that. Do the right thing!! what an honor. but, You hit the nail on the head. we tried hard to let people come to their own conclusions rather than be ever more put off by our own personal feelings. Many roads lead to final destination TRUTH.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aJYMYRMprY&feature=player_embedded
December 2nd, 2009 at 5:41 pm
“Seattle’s biggest problem is that everyone are “idea” people and none of them realize that even the best idea is pointless if their isn’t any incentive for people to change their behaviors.”
But … but … bike sharrows!
I actually saw some clown on publicola the other day refer to it as “the war on cars.” Hate to break it to you Publicola, but in 20 years, when gas costs $20 a gallon or more, what are people going to be driving? Cars. The entire regional infrastructure of everything, not to mention the American lifestyle is set up for cars, not bikes, not light rail, cars. Cars may not run on gas in 20 years, but it’s what we’re going to be driving like it or not … so a “war on cars” makes about as much sense and is as winnable as a war on drugs is.
December 2nd, 2009 at 8:46 pm
the geezers need to just let them know what happened and tell them to protect themselves.
Ownership sells to out of towners. Politicians, big business and the general public roll over.
How does a sports fan protect themselves against that? Seems like a scenario that is poised to happen over and over again in other markets. What will make it stop?
Would a new arena and team in Seattle keep it from happening here in the future? Maybe for about 15-20 years.
December 3rd, 2009 at 2:27 am
DBF,
knowing is half the battle.
Yo Joe
December 3rd, 2009 at 5:41 am
I started playing and watching basketball when I was 8 about to turn 9. For reference, the fist thing I ever remember hearing about the sonics was the headline “Sonics fire Karl.”
- This makes me feel incredibly old…lol…and I guess sorry you don’t remember some of those glory years.
MYK this makes me feel old too. The poor kid never got to see Payton, Kemp, Shremp or big smooth. Those were glory years for us.
December 3rd, 2009 at 11:52 am
I’m not upset that I didn’t get to see those guys play, im upset that I didn’t get to see Druant an Green develop in to something truly special. And I am even more upset thatfuture generations of kids wont get togo to games and dream about playing for their home team like I did. So many of my childhood friendships that have lasted to this day came from a shared love for the game of basketball. To me, the saddest thing is that so many kids will never get to experience those same kinds of bonds that myself and my friends shared.
The one thing that completely pisses me off about this whole loss of 41 years of history and CULTURE is that the main argument used to not fund the arena was that it was needed for more important things like schools, even though the money couldn’t be used for that purpose. I can’t remember who said it, but somebody said in an interview that it was immoral to spend money on basketball when kids had to go to schools that had leaky roofs. That to send them to such places was criminal. And while I agree with that completely, I think it is an even bigger crime to make them go to those schools AND take away not just their heroes, but their ability to dream of a better tomorrow beyond the walls of their dysfunctional and dilapidated school.
Know education.
Know heroes
know dreams left to dream.
That is what a whole generation of Seattle kids is going to grow up with.
NOw I’m off to class.
December 3rd, 2009 at 3:27 pm
I’m sorry to post this but damn it!
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4706580
December 3rd, 2009 at 3:43 pm
How does a sports fan protect themselves against that? Seems like a scenario that is poised to happen over and over again in other markets. What will make it stop
- I disagree. I already think we are seeing the downfall of professional sports. Attendance decline can be attributed to the poor economy. But, I also think that with the invention of the Internet, 60″ Plasma TVs, HDTV and everything thing else is leading to an overal decline in the interest in watching sports (at least when its not a good product) live.
As more and more fans start to look at sports teams as big businesses who will leave as soon as they get a better deal you are going to start to see a decrease in the demand of those teams.
This is one of the major reasons Ive always had issues with people who consider Seattle a “fair weather” town. The only way the fans can show their disinterest is by not buying tickets. That is literally the only control you have over an owner. If you are willing to spend 100s of dollars on a bad team, then you are likely to see past mistakes repeated. So, I like it that Seattle fans are willing to put their money where there mouth is and vote with their pocketbooks!
December 3rd, 2009 at 3:47 pm
Crazy,
I agree with the sentiment of your last post. The only thing I’d say is that it is very likely that OKC (and KD/JG) will never achieve the levels that the mid-90s Sonics teams and GP/SK achieved both as a team and as individuals.
GP is one of the top 10 PGs of all time and probably the second greatest all around behind Magic (Chris Paul may someday achieve that level)…and when SK was playing in Seattle he was easily one of the top 2 or 3 PFs in the league and his continued performance at that level wouldve made him a top 10 PF of all time.
So…I’d say one of the saddest things about the Sonics moving is that much of the younger generation will not remember that we had some of the greatest talent and some of the greatest teams of all-time playing in our city. That is incredibly disappointing.
December 3rd, 2009 at 4:03 pm
96 was the year. Kemp at his peak, just starting to develop that jumper that would become his go-to once he got fat and lost his jumping ability, GP running the floor as well as his mouth, Big Smooth draining 3’s despite not being able to see, and Frank Brickowski throwing Dennis Rodman around. If it wasn’t for a certain #23 and a certain 72-10 team, that would be another banner for them to hang up in OKC.
Oh, I made myself sad there at the end.
December 3rd, 2009 at 4:42 pm
“GP is one of the top 10 PGs of all time and probably the second greatest all around behind Magic (Chris Paul may someday achieve that level)…and when SK was playing in Seattle he was easily one of the top 2 or 3 PFs in the league and his continued performance at that level wouldve made him a top 10 PF of all time.”
I don’t think I would rate Gary ahead of Oscar Robertson as an all-around point guard. And as great as Shawn was when he was here, he never really developed the on-court discipline and polish (to say nothing of his off-court discipline) that he needed to be an all-time great. Even in his best days he was always among the leaders in personal fouls, disqualification, and turnovers.
December 3rd, 2009 at 4:55 pm
“96 was the year. Kemp at his peak, just starting to develop that jumper that would become his go-to once he got fat and lost his jumping ability, GP running the floor as well as his mouth, Big Smooth draining 3’s despite not being able to see, and Frank Brickowski throwing Dennis Rodman around. If it wasn’t for a certain #23 and a certain 72-10 team, that would be another banner for them to hang up in OKC.”
True, but there were several other teams during that era that could also say “if it wasn’t for a certain #23.” The Sonics’ best chances to tack up an additional banner or two were in 1994 and 1995, when they didn’t have to worry about Jordan. Unfortunately we all know what happened…
December 3rd, 2009 at 5:16 pm
“This is one of the major reasons Ive always had issues with people who consider Seattle a “fair weather” town. The only way the fans can show their disinterest is by not buying tickets. That is literally the only control you have over an owner. If you are willing to spend 100s of dollars on a bad team, then you are likely to see past mistakes repeated. So, I like it that Seattle fans are willing to put their money where there mouth is and vote with their pocketbooks!”
Is it just a coincidence that the places that people consider to be “great sports towns”—New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston, etc.—are both a) big markets whose large populations make it easier to fill seats and boost TV ratings and merchandise sales, and b) places that have had big-league sports for over a century and won many championships? I don’t think it is. Seattle obviously isn’t on their level, but it’s partly because we aren’t a huge market and because our teams aren’t old enough or historically successful enough to have taken deep root in our local culture. When you take those things into account, I don’t think we support our teams so terribly. We’re not a great sports town, obviously, but I wouldn’t say we’re so much worse than, say, Phoenix, Houston, Atlanta, or Miami.
December 3rd, 2009 at 5:32 pm
“So, I like it that Seattle fans are willing to put their money where there mouth is and vote with their pocketbooks!”
Nah, JAS has it right. Seattle has never had sustained success of any kind, in any sport making what fanbase there is more apathetic, and it IS a total fairweather town. Having lived in Denver and Chicago there’s simply no comparison between Seattle and those cities in terms of sports fandom. It’s part of the culture of the city and region. It’s civic pride and community reflected in sport.
Not sure what Seattle’s culture really is … whining narcissism? Looking down on everything and anything that doesn’t personally affect me? Maybe because there is not a real sense of civic pride or community here, at least not the way I understand it. It’s a very, well … sheltered, subdivided bedroom community. People are friendly on the surface, but not really. You know what I’m talking about. It’s easy to be a front runner fan when the team is doing good. Heck I never even knew there were so many Mariner fans “since Rupe” until 95. They probably weren’t fans “since Rupe” until 1995 either.
December 3rd, 2009 at 5:38 pm
Eric that article just totally rubs it in.
sh*t like this makes me want to puke. it’s everything you want to hear about from your young, franchise player. fml. fml. fml. fml. durant should have been a sonic for life.
“Presti watches Durant take more shots. Then he tells a story. “I deal with realities,” he says. “I don’t deal in hypotheticals. So I can’t tell you how good Kevin will be. I can’t push a button and make him 28, which is when I think he’ll hit his prime. But I can tell you that one night in training camp, after a double session, everybody else had left, except there was a light on in the players’ lounge. I walked by to see who was in there, because it was getting late, and Kevin was in there with a plate of food. He was exhausted. I could see how tired he was just from how he was barely able to pick up his fork. I remember thinking to myself, This guy got better today.”"
really effin’ awesome job seattle. have fun rooting for the mariners/seahawks whom are going to be mired in mediocrity for a long, long, long time. they have absolutely no future ahead of them. you let the wrong goddamn team go.
December 3rd, 2009 at 6:06 pm
@ Xteve
Denver? I lived in Denver for nine years, and other than the Broncos, that town is as fairweather as any. When the teams aren’t good, there are tons of seats at Nuggets and Rockies games. And if you’ve followed the Avs lately, this year especially, that arena is like a 1/2 empty morgue.
December 3rd, 2009 at 6:34 pm
I don’t understand why we as a city or county or state, don’t just apply for federal stimulus money that is supposed to be used for the creation of jobs and improvements to existing public parks and buildings to make them more green. If we did that, we could use the money to help revamp Seattle center and make it truly world class. I personally love the plan for the center (although I would like to see them put back the Basketball court and skate park they took out.) but I find it pathetic that the only suggestion they have on Key Arena is that it needs to be brought up to NBA standards ASAP. They have no contingency plan, yet they have no money to re-do the building and no team to put in it.
One idea I have had since I was about ten was that they should renovate the Key and make its roof out of solar panels. Hell, it already looks like its made out of them, why not actually use the real thing. If you were to couple that something like a geo thermal heating system, you would have probably the most energy efficient building in all of sports.
HOw do we fund a renovation? Well I have some ideas.
1. 10% tax on all ticket sales for all events. It sounds like a lot, but when you break it down, a $10 ticket would only cost a dollar more. Couple this with a fee, say another dollar, on all pay parking in the seattle center area during events.
2. Combine that generated income with the money that Steve Ballmer has offered very graciously.
3. Add in the $75 million that the city said they had available. (if it still is or not remains to be seen.)
4. Look at the possibility of introducing the proposed bag tax and using some of the money from that toward green projects, such as making the Key more energy efficient.
5. Attempt to get federal stimulus money to help with the renovation of the center as a whole. Hopefully freeing up more of the cities money for the project to be put towards the Key renovation.
6. Find a sponsor that is willing to pay more for sponsorship of the building than Key Bank. Make it local if possible. ( i know this is not going to happen until the renovation is complete and or we get another team.)
7. Look into ( I know some of you on here already have) the possibility of an international partnership for either ownership of the team or the arena.
What do you all think? Opinions are greatly appreciated.
December 3rd, 2009 at 11:28 pm
The current site of Memorial Stadium seems like an absolute slam-dunk site to build a multi-purpose arena facility. The veterans can be honored with a classy museum or pavillion inside or near a new facility. There is no reason why the new facility could not be called say the “Microsoft Arena at Memorial Field”. My point is that the name “Memorial” can still be recognized and the veterans can be honored in a more elevated facility than what is presented currently at “Memorial Stadium.”
I really like what Steve Kelly of The Seattle Times said in “Sonicsgate” about how to address the potential 30 million dollars that could come from Clay Bennet’s group. Kelly says in the movie, “Fine, give it to citizens For More Important Things.” I do not write this sarcastically, more seriously than Kelly’s remarks: If a new facility is built on site of Memorial Stadium, I think we could figure out some way to have a portion of the new taxes go to fund to assist veterans. This is a politically palatable and moral way to support the funding of a new facility.
December 4th, 2009 at 11:19 am
“4. Look at the possibility of introducing the proposed bag tax and using some of the money from that toward green projects, such as making the Key more energy efficient.”
I’m afraid you just lost me there. If you don’t want people to use bags, then ban ‘em. The bag tax was and is a hypocritical cash grab guised in green clothing to pad the City’s general fund and get blown on the dumbest crap imaginable, nothing else.
Federal stimulus funds can’t be used for the kinds of things you’re talking about doing at Seattle Center…
The only way I ever see an arena happening here is a largely if not wholly privately funded solution NOT in Seattle. As soon as you get Seattle or King County gov’t or taxes involved the chances of it ever happening are exponentially decreased. Too many grabbing hands and Citizens for Million Dollar Toilet whiners get involved.
December 4th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
“1. 10% tax on all ticket sales for all events. It sounds like a lot, but when you break it down, a $10 ticket would only cost a dollar more. Couple this with a fee, say another dollar, on all pay parking in the seattle center area during events.”
In theory I like this idea. The only problem is that there are already so many fees associated with ticketing an additional tax would be brutal. Its not unusual for a $25 ticket to end up costing you $30-$35 already when you take in the ticketmaster charge, shipping charge, print it yourself charge, facility charge etc etc etc.
“3. Add in the $75 million that the city said they had available.”
Pretty sure they don’t have $75 million available.
December 4th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
“This is one of the major reasons Ive always had issues with people who consider Seattle a “fair weather” town. The only way the fans can show their disinterest is by not buying tickets. That is literally the only control you have over an owner. If you are willing to spend 100s of dollars on a bad team, then you are likely to see past mistakes repeated. So, I like it that Seattle fans are willing to put their money where there mouth is and vote with their pocketbooks!”
I hear ya. But the Cubs have sucked for years yet they fill the stadium everygame. I’m not saying we don’t have great fans here……but there are a lot of fairweather fans here. A lot. I know a lot of people that don’t go to M’s games until the weather gets better. I know a lot of people that went to lots of M’s game back in the hey day. The past couple years they went to none.
Remember the 50 win season? Nobody thought they’d be good so the early games were empty. Then at the end of the year the games started to sell out. People came out of the woodwork for the playoffs. I went to opening night the next year too. It wasn’t sold out. There were a lot of empty seats for opening night coming off a 50 win year!!!! Why? People were waiting to see if they’d still be good again before going.
Sometimes it just feels like SOME people in Seattle don’t want to go to the games because it isn’t “cool” to be there if the team isn’t good. Almost like people don’t want to be seen there. Yet they sure do jump on the bandwagon quick when the team is good. Of course this happens for everyteam to a certain extent. It doesn’t make it right though.
December 4th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
Yeah Oklahoma will be good in the coming years..but they will never have the history and they know deep down they did not earn success. THey just stole our years of history and rebuilding. I just don’t think it will be as rewarding as it would have been for us watching our draft picks develop. THings are always more appreciated and better when they are earned.
December 4th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
Hope that makes you feel better, D. Doesn’t work for me. Sounds like what a kid who got his ass kicked on the playground says.
December 4th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
I don’t think I would rate Gary ahead of Oscar Robertson as an all-around point guard. And as great as Shawn was when he was here, he never really developed the on-court discipline and polish (to say nothing of his off-court discipline) that he needed to be an all-time great. Even in his best days he was always among the leaders in personal fouls, disqualification, and turnovers.
- I dunno…Oscar and GP are neck and neck to me. Oscar’s stats are dramatically inflated by the era he played in…but I’ll take 2nd or 3rd best all around PG for GP…that’s not too bad.
December 4th, 2009 at 8:23 pm
The cities that supposedly have great fans are the ones who have iconic teams and those teams are really the only ones with great fans. Philly is NOT a great sports town (see: 76ers), Boston is a Red Sox town (see: Bruins), Pitsburgh is a Steelers town (see: Pirates).
Still dont see why you guys are so tough on Seattle for being like everyone else.
December 4th, 2009 at 9:25 pm
In 1983-1984, the year before MJ showed up, the Bulls average 6,365 fans (third worst in the league) per home game for a 27-55 team.
December 4th, 2009 at 9:33 pm
“I hear ya. But the Cubs have sucked for years yet they fill the stadium everygame.”
The Cubs drew 3 million fans for the first time in 2004. The Mariners did it in 1997–in the crappy old Kingdome no less.
I’m not ripping Chicago. I think it’s unquestionably one of the great sports towns. But I don’t think we in Seattle are so worthless that we don’t deserve to have teams.
December 4th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
Philly, I think, is about the Eagles first and foremost.
December 5th, 2009 at 3:15 am
Some very quick, rough and probably horribly inaccurate numbers that I came up with:
If the 10% tax was placed on all tickets to all Key Arena events, and the overall average revenue generated per ticket by that tax was just $4 with an average event attendance of only 6,000 people 100 nights per year, the tax would generate, over the course of 30 years, $72 million. Last time I checked we were only $75 million away from having this arena thing done. If you couple that with the fact that my numbers are on the low side in terms of events per year and average amount generated per ticket (especially if we did have an NBA team) then you are probably talking closer to $100 million. Think about it, new arena, no new taxes or extensions of existing ones on anything but the people who are going to go and see the events inside their brand new arena. HOW COULD CITIZENS FOR MORE IMPORTANT THINGS ARGUE ABOUT THIS!!!!!!!
I don’t like the bag tax either. I voted against it because I thought it was retarded how they wanted to implement it, but if they were to force it on us like they have tried to for a year and a half now, I was thinking it could at least go to something that was beneficial to the city as a whole.
In terms of the ticket fees, I also agree. But most of that is if you purchase through ticket master. I know that that is the way that a vast majority buys tickets, but if the tax is built into the initial price of the ticket instead of added on later, I believe people will be more willing to pay it. Especially if the money is going to support the venue and the things they enjoy.
December 5th, 2009 at 10:38 am
@ MBBG - overall its’ nowhere near as fairweather like Seattle, I lived there for 14 years … Avs are down because Nuggs are up, and the reverse was the case when Avs were good. I would say that points to a very healthy interest in sports overall, regardless of the teams are good or bad people are going. Rockies were actually steady draw for quite some time. It’s not and never has been a frontrunning town the way this one is, IMO. I can’t ever imagine a city like Denver, Chicago ever losing a sports franchise … or have a City Councilperson standing up questioning its cultural or economic value virtually unchallenged and then get re-elected. That’s just fucked up.
And I think the history bears that out. This city came within a hairsbreadth of losing both its MLB and NFL franchises virtually back to back … I can’t think of any other “Big 3″ (NFL, MLB, NBA) city that would ever happen in. Maybe it’s about ownership … Seattle did have a patch of crap owners until fairly recently.
December 5th, 2009 at 10:51 am
Little known fact. One that is kept pretty quiet. Do you know who is a major stakeholder in Ticketmaster? A: Paul Allen
“The cities that supposedly have great fans are the ones who have iconic teams and those teams are really the only ones with great fans.”
I agree. But its different for some reason. I think its kind of a geographical thing. The west coast laid back attitude vs hard charging east coasters. Compare that the the Laker fans who go to games to be seen. Maybe unfairly it just seems like some fans are more passionate than others.
East Coast is different. See “Jersey Shore”
Nobody is saying we don’t have a great sports town or deserve teams. We are and do.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
I’ll just take everything xteve has said at face value, the facts are facts and the predictions of the east side arena are the competition, and have been for 15 years.
Competition with the east side requires competition to motivate people into a solution.
So, expressing an interest in something just encourages others to take an interest.
Pushing for the Renton solution brought out Kemper Freeman Jr to offer a competing idea in Auburn. Today, pushing for a KeyArena solution encourages others to offer competing solutions.
Sometimes, when I am trapped in a bad task driven team I openly offer the worst idea I can think of, saying, “this is the worst idea I can think of”, just so I do not look like a complete dolt. I can not tell you how quickly that encourages people to offer better ideas (you can only go up from what I offered, I remove the face-saving risk that keeps people quiet). It also gives everybody an abstract idea to share in hating, including me (we have a shared experience, that builds some social trust, like Boremann’s Symbolic Convergence Theory (SCT).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_Convergence_Theory
In order to get the alternative ideas generating you must present an idea that is possible (even if remote) in order for an obviously better alternative to be presented, unless the original idea is commonly viewed as superior by the group, and taken at face value.
Push KeyArena if you was any arena to happen.
Bellevue would love to show up Seattle and steal the Sonics name and history (more power to them).
Btw, if I hate the team I don’t bother with the disclamer, and just offer a horrible idea to ensure that I am not invited back.
Want to watch a bicycle club member’s head explode? Say, “bike tax”.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
For the mass transit welfare queens slow on the uptake, they make be the unliked bicycle fixie freaks, but they may help push for a common goal.
http://publicola.net/?p=20301
it is about encouraging the other 90% to share in the common idea so they can get their 90%, and you should encourage them to do so, and be happy when they reach their goal.
They will be less likely to bury you over the 10% you want.
December 5th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Craz7, they don’t argue about that, Chris Van Dyk testified for SB6116, their worry is that the city would go further than the 75, and throw more money at it (like that would happen).
You can look at the taxing structure for Safeco and Qwest and KingDome, and see that it is pretty easy to tax tickets and parking to generate revenue to pay off the city bonds. They do not have to use any general fund money, just bond capacity banked off projected revenue from those taxes.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/CMD/showdoc.ashx?u=A2iGB9PMbwyP2X1C%2bw7qdVoo636n00r%2fAh888keMqQ1qqeR2s6wkfiVt8303SaXGvfzF6qRHYIXWWnN8NatPlcxqwZ7LyJsnA%2bU4c4×2ds8%3d&y=2009
you can also see each actual law(rcw) it is connected to, and when they expect the bonds to get paid off.
This table is from HB2252.
The tables from SB6116 project 830 million dollars through 2028. KeyArena would be about 10%.
King County could end up with funding sources for affordable housing on par with the levy Seattle just passed, but that would be the council’s choice.
Republicans and a few Dems would kill this bill on the floor again if this just turns into filling budget holes in King County without the county making some effort toward better fiscal management.
Dow taking a pay cut (off his pay raise) is a good move.
If the county is expected to provide services on par with cities then it needs taxing authority on similar things that cities have, like utilities (but that is a different bill, and I expect that to get a second look).
December 5th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
I was rereading that “poisoned well” document and I have a question: does anybody know what happened at that NYC meeting between the NBA and Slade Gorton and Tim Ceis?
December 5th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
JAS, just ask Slade. He’ll tell you, regardless of the fact that he signed a confidentiality agreement. That’s one of the things that got him in so much trouble with the judge.
December 5th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
Oden hurt again
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4717884
December 5th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
Seattle, I think, while quirky is a actually a pretty good sports city.
Here are some examples:
(1) University of Washington football has generally always had a good following and many people who did not attend the UW attend games and take an interest in UW football. Other UW sports, including the recent emergence of UW basketball draw fans. The Bank of America Arena has had many sell outs over the last few years.
(2) The Seattle SuperSonics set NBA attendance records in the late 1970s/early 1980s. The Key Arena in the pre-Bennett years was usually filled up at around 90% capacity. During the 06 07′ season, a season that many thought could be last for the Sonics in Seattle, the Key Arena was filled up during many games. As for the Sonics final season in Seattle, the O7′08 season, the Key was still filled at about 78% capacity. I am not saying that the Sonics final season in Seattle was great from a ratings and attendance standpoint, but in consideration of everything going on, I am not sure that many other NBA cities would have over 13,000 people attend games, for a 20-62 team, in a lame-duck situation, with an owner trying to litigate his way out of town.
(3) The Seattle Seahawks have been a success. I do not need to spend too much time on this one. We all know that the Seahawks have made the Super Bowl and Qwest Field fills up. The Seahawks since their inception have basically represented the whole NW as an NFL franchise.
(4) The Mariners had some bad years. But, now Safeco Field is basically “Wrigley Field on the West Coast.” The team exploded during the magic 95′ run. Even during the M’s bad years, like the 1980s, they had better attendance numbers, compared to franchise’s with similar records such as the NY Mets and Houston Astros, in certain seasons. Nobody has argued for years that Seattle is not a good baseball town. During the 1970s, the 1980s, and part of the 1990s, a debate went around regionally and nationally whether Seattle is a good baseball town. Anybody who would try to argue now that Seattle is not a good baseball town needs to have their head examined!
(5) The Seattle Sounders were a popular NASL team. Seattle is now considered the Soccer capital of the U.S.A. It has been an amazing run for this new MLS team.
(6) The Seattle Storm are a prominent WNBA franchise. The Storm draw fans and have a very loyal following.
Yes, Seattle is a prosperous market that can support a Ballmer-owned NBA team with the Sounders, Hawks, Storm, and Mariners. We could probably also support the NHL too with the other teams.
December 6th, 2009 at 1:21 am
“As for the Sonics final season in Seattle, the O7′08 season, the Key was still filled at about 78% capacity. I am not saying that the Sonics final season in Seattle was great from a ratings and attendance standpoint, but in consideration of everything going on, I am not sure that many other NBA cities would have over 13,000 people attend games, for a 20-62 team, in a lame-duck situation, with an owner trying to litigate his way out of town.”
I think you’re right. To put the attendance during the Sonics’ last season here in perspective: in 2001-02 the Hornets played their last season in Charlotte. The fans there knew they were probably moving, and attendance was worst in the league at 11,286 per game. But that was for a 44-38 team that reached the second round of the playoffs. In Seattle’s case, we also had a lame-duck season, but ours featured the second-worst team in the league. Yet we managed to average 13,355 per game. And of course we had better TV ratings during our last year than OKC did during its first year.
I’m not ripping the Charlotte fans. I’m just saying that under the circumstances, I think our support for Sonics in 2007-08 was pretty solid.
December 6th, 2009 at 1:37 am
gotta feel for Blazers fans - just when Oden was starting to show some real promise. Przybilla is a quality player, but IMO they need both of them to even have a long shot against a team like LAL, DEN or even Dallas.
December 6th, 2009 at 9:32 am
“I don’t think I would rate Gary ahead of Oscar Robertson as an all-around point guard. And as great as Shawn was when he was here, he never really developed the on-court discipline and polish (to say nothing of his off-court discipline) that he needed to be an all-time great. Even in his best days he was always among the leaders in personal fouls, disqualification, and turnovers.
- I dunno…Oscar and GP are neck and neck to me. Oscar’s stats are dramatically inflated by the era he played in…but I’ll take 2nd or 3rd best all around PG for GP…that’s not too bad.”
Well let’s see, the big O actually AVERAGED a triple double one year (I think 1961-62) and Payton…. well he might have led the league in trash talking for a few years if they kept stats for that.
December 6th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Simmons has a pretty funny story about the Seattle book signing.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmonsnflpicks/091204
December 6th, 2009 at 1:30 pm
interesting OTL piece about race in the NBA, specifically the lack of White Americans.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4718857&categoryid=2459788
December 6th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
60 Minutes has a story on Tim Donaghy tonight.
December 6th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
John Johnson, Gus Williams & Fred Brown raised the 12th Man Flag today. Glad the Seahawks won the game.
http://www.seahawks.com/media-lounge/videos/12th-MAN-Flag-Raiser—Edwin-Bailey/640ffc1f-588a-4545-8ccf-30a34d91c4dc#?id=c34e152f-b68b-4ed1-a548-f89f63270851
December 6th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
I saw the 60 minutes segment and boy did he blow the whistle! Stern wouldn’t even comment and this only confirms my suspicions that the league wanted to extend the playoffs for revenue.
In ‘94 Mutumbo should have never been rolling around with the ball!
December 6th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
Well let’s see, the big O actually AVERAGED a triple double one year (I think 1961-62) and Payton…. well he might have led the league in trash talking for a few years if they kept stats for that.
- Yes and Wil averaged 50pts a game and almost 30 rebounds per game one year…that was my entire point. Oscar’s triple double while kind of interesting isn’t necessary meaningful.
December 6th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
So I’m just going to bury this in here because I don’t really want to get this in the news…probably wouldn’t anyway but I am always stunned at the little ruckus that emerges when I post something.
A good source, one very very close to Steve Balmer and involved in the situation advises me to look at what Microsoft stock has done since the release of windows 7. In review it has gone up from about 22 to about 30 in the last 90 days. I quote “Steve wants a team more than ever.”
Please do not go circulating this all over the web. I’m sick of being an information source and nothing is happening immediately. More may come of this long term however. Have a merry christmas.
December 6th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
SHHH!!!
December 6th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
Sounds cool Brian, but I totally agree. I go to school with people who every week say they heard that somebody they know heard that this guy read the Sonics are coming back. I even had people tell me they would be back in a week or two. So don’t worry, We won’t tell anybody. Its a rumor and should be treated as one until something more solid comes of it.
PS. THanks for giving some sliver of possible hope. I have completely lost track of what month it is without Sonics basketball to tell me.
December 6th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
“Please do not go circulating this all over the web. I’m sick of being an information source and nothing is happening immediately. More may come of this long term however. Have a merry christmas.”
No, no, I’m telling EVERYONE that Brian Robinson is guaranteeing a team!!!! Woo-hoo!!!
“look at what Microsoft stock has done since the release of windows 7. In review it has gone up from about 22 to about 30 in the last 90 days. I quote “Steve wants a team more than ever.”
I think it has more to do with the fact that people saw my super-studly mug on “7 Beat” and couldn’t help but give Windows 7 a try
Hahahaha
December 7th, 2009 at 12:18 am
“I saw the 60 minutes segment and boy did he blow the whistle! Stern wouldn’t even comment and this only confirms my suspicions that the league wanted to extend the playoffs for revenue.
“In ‘94 Mutumbo should have never been rolling around with the ball!”
I don’t think there was any conspiracy there. If Kemp makes just one of two free throws at the end of regulation in Game 4 in Denver, the Sonics win the series 3-1.
My favorite part of the Donaghy interview was him saying that when he was in prison another inmate told him “that he was gonna get a gun and eventually blow my head off and break my knee caps.” Do you really need to do the second part after you’ve done the first?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/12/04/60minutes/main5880547.shtml
December 7th, 2009 at 12:29 am
“A good source, one very very close to Steve Balmer and involved in the situation advises me to look at what Microsoft stock has done since the release of windows 7. In review it has gone up from about 22 to about 30 in the last 90 days.”
In other words, if Windows Vista hadn’t been such a crummy product the Sonics would still be here? Just kidding.
December 7th, 2009 at 6:54 am
Vista really did suck
I do feel like we’re going to get a team back one of these days. My vote is 2012. I don’t think there is any shot of getting one sooner and I don’t think it will be much later than that. Ballmer being interested is just the critical component. If he bows out then that leaves us just struggling as a region. Who else is strong enough to step up right now.
December 7th, 2009 at 6:55 am
On the side note, even though it’s painful to bear: Oden IS injury prone and the right choice to fill their needs would have been KD. This is Sam Bowie 2.0 where Jordan was still on the board!
Hey JAS, i honestly thought we won that game way before the Kemp free throws.
Even though i’m a true Supes fan, i still feel bad for Holmie, best of luck with your recovery.
December 7th, 2009 at 11:09 am
The Donaghy 60 minutes was pretty interesting. I thought the part about the refs conspiring against Iverson was pretty funny. Not only do a lot of people hate AI…….the refs do too!!!! No wonder the guy has a chip on his shoulder.
At this point what does Donaghy have to lose? Nothing really. But he does have book sales to gain right? If he really was the rogue ref…..why did the NBA decline to comment. I don’t know who to believe, but its pretty clear that something isn’t right.
December 7th, 2009 at 11:44 am
I am starting to think that David Stern is like the politician who served a couple of good terms, earlier in this career, but has now been in office way too long and is league is having too many problems now occuring under his watch. The word is that Stern is probably not going to be a Commissioner after 2012 (he will be 70 in 2012). You gotta wonder if internally people in the NBA community want Stern to move on.
December 7th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Crazy interview with Donaghy … could the league get any more bad news?
Stern will likely bow out after the next lockout. I think the league is going to be quite different in a couple of years.
Shameless self-promotion: I’m involved in a remix contest for Scottish band Oswald’s next single. If I win, I get my remix released on the single. If I win, I’ll have them call it something Sonics related, like the “Sonics 4Ever Remix” or something similar. Currently, I’m #4 overall and voting ends next Monday the 14th. If you don’t mind going to http://www.oswaldtheband.com/media/music/best-remix-vote?result=1 and voting “Silver String Submarine Band,” I’d surely appreciate it! The band sounds kinda like a cross between Coldplay and U2, if you like those bands you may dig these guys. Thanks!
December 7th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Done and done!
December 7th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Many thanks Joshua! It’s up to #3 now!
December 7th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Voted for you and the bottom two guys. haha
December 7th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
Thanks for your vote Kevin! I noticed it randomizes the order every time … funny stuff.
December 7th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
I noticed that and went back to make sure I did the right ones. haha
December 7th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Got another vote in for ya…c’mon folks…make it happen.
December 7th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
From the 60 minutes and the ESPN interviews I love Tim Donaghy!!!
December 7th, 2009 at 10:50 pm
I’m not as certain now about a prolonged work stoppage. David Falk, now a neutral party, says the players pocketbooks can only withstand so many missed checks. There will be an initial lockout, but once the threat to cancel the season is made from the owners, there will be quick concessions, much like 1999. Stern was being PC by giving the players a sweetheart deal in 2006, but this time around the players will get nothing. If his ego can’t withstand fan criticism, he may exit right after the Finals and let his successor be the bad guy. Or he’ll stick around and crush the players simply because he thinks he’s King.
December 8th, 2009 at 12:08 am
Episode of Frasier on right now and their at a Sonics game. Lady is yelling for Baker to get his ass down the court and play some defense.
Memories
December 8th, 2009 at 1:18 am
I miss the days when the biggest problem Seattle NBA fans had was how to get rid of Vin Bakers Supersized contract. Those were the days. How I miss them.
December 8th, 2009 at 10:26 am
“GP is one of the top 10 PGs of all time and probably the second greatest all around behind Magic.”
Near the end of last season, the ESPN crew polled their own analysts (the usual suspects) as to the ten best PGs of all time. Results at the following web page.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-GreatestPointGuards
GP came in tenth. Of the thirteen analysts polled . . . five did not rate GP in the top ten. Only two rated him in the top five (Bill Simmons rated Payton fifth best, and Hollinger rated Payton as third best).
Not sure what to think about all this . . . Defense was Payton’s forte, and I suspect that the ESPN gang generally considers this of secondary value.
December 8th, 2009 at 10:29 am
Correction:
Hollinger rated Payton as fourth best and Simmons rated him as sixth best.
December 8th, 2009 at 10:59 am
Brooklynites don’t want the Nets if they’re going to suck.
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brooklyn/2009/12/04/2009-12-04_find_some_winning_ways_bklyn_fans_warn_nets_owner.html
Let them come here, we’re used to crappy teams.
December 8th, 2009 at 11:09 am
Hey, I’d take a team where we could build around Devin Harris and Terrance Williams. Maybe grab an athletic SF *cough*Durant*cough* and then see what happens from there.
December 8th, 2009 at 11:24 am
Imagine what Bakers contract could have been in this day and age? Jermaine O’Neal makes $22 mm this year. Kirilenko and Zach Randolph make $16 mm. It was bad. He was clearly overpaid. At least you got something out of him. I think paying Danny Fortson $6.5 mm in 06/07 for 14 games might have been worse.
$11.2 mm was the most he ever made from the Supes in 01/02. He put up 14 and 6 rpg that year. We were 45-37 and made the playoffs (lost in 1st round to SA 3-2).
Payton vs Big O? Its always been hard for me to compare players from different eras. The game has changed so much that its really hard. If Shaq played in the era of Wilt/Russell wouldn’t he have been able to back them down and dunk on them with his size/strength? In theory yes……but they didn’t play that way back then. Were they allowed to dunk then? Vice versa who knows how good Wilt/Russell would be in modern day ball with modern day coaching/style of play. Tough call.
December 8th, 2009 at 11:28 am
I’d like to have the Nets owner and all his cash.
December 8th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
I wish we had Baker’s contract on the books before the team went to OKC… I’d love to see how Presti could have gotten out of there and how cancerous the locker room would have been.
December 8th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Slick Watts is coming to SIFF on Saturday!
Kevin i wish we had that Frasier Tivo’d for the bonus features.
December 8th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
If I was thinking I would have done that and streamed it to you.
December 8th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
Payton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stockton
December 8th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
You and MYK are both nuts. Only in Seattle would you see such a ridiculous claim. Hooray for homerism.
December 8th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
“You and MYK are both nuts. Only in Seattle would you see such a ridiculous claim. Hooray for homerism.”
Thanks for the reality check DBF. Nobody talks about how when Jordan was taking his sabbatical, the putrid Supes not only blew it when Mutumbo was rolling on the floor, but the following year after winning the conference with their record for the 2nd year in a row, they couldn’t make it past the woeful Lakers in the first round and could only muster one win against them. That’s big time underacheiving no matter how you look at it. Payton + Kemp + Karl = way too much ego and not enough good decision making. I much preferred the Sikma/Williams/DJ/Shelton/JJ axis with Downtown coming off the bench and Lenny at the controls. Not to mention the brilliant chess move of picking up Dennis Awtrey from Boston for no other reason then to take Kareem out of his game. Brilliant! At least that group could get it done.
December 9th, 2009 at 12:34 am
If you could cross eras and create an ultimate Sonics team how would you do it?
PG - Payton
SG - Dennis Johnson
SF - Detlef
PF - Kemp
C - Sikma
Sixth man - Downtown Freddie Brown
Bench - McMillan, Chambers, Eddie Johnson, David Thompson, Ray Allen, Ervin Johnson, Steve Scheffler
December 9th, 2009 at 12:34 am
Nice commercial
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7sa0W0fXvQ
December 9th, 2009 at 12:39 am
Start: Payton, Ray, X, Kemp, and Sikma
6th Man: Chambers
Bench: Big Smooth, Fred Brown, Ricky Pierce, Mack 10, Spencer Haywood, and JJ.
Coach: George Karl
December 9th, 2009 at 1:51 am
Good Phil Taylor column here:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/phil_taylor/12/08/donaghy/index.html?xid=cnnbin&eref=shareDigg
December 9th, 2009 at 1:53 am
There’s a good Phil Taylor column over at the SI website on Donaghy and the NBA.
December 9th, 2009 at 2:04 am
I’m toying with getting the Donaghy book and giving it a read through. I’m almost done with Simmons’ book, then I got the Magic and Bird book to read.
December 9th, 2009 at 2:05 am
And L. Jon Wertheim plugged Sonicsgate in his Oct. 21 mailbag:
“Speaking of “The 206,” if anyone has two hours to spare, this is a tremendous documentary about the SuperSonics at http://www.sonicsgate.org. All the elements of a classical tale: money, culture, sports, politics, hubris. With some classic Gary Payton quotes thrown in for good measure.”
I guess Wertheim writes mainly about tennis now, but he still covers the NBA sometimes, such as in the article he wrote about Carmelo Anthony this week. Someone should post this in the review section of the Sonicsgate website.
December 9th, 2009 at 2:10 am
This mention by the Atlantic Monthly website should also be linked in the reviews section:
http://correspondents.theatlantic.com/hua_hsu/2009/10/legalize_kemp.php
December 9th, 2009 at 10:07 am
Have you voted today?
There’s only a handful of votes separating 3rd & 4th place! Silver String Submarine Band moved back into 3rd this morning … Make a Sonics4Ever Remix a reality!
http://www.oswaldtheband.com/media/music/best-remix-vote
Thanks!
December 9th, 2009 at 10:31 am
My starting 5 would be Payton, Allen, Durant, Kemp and Sikma.
Sixth man would be Dennis Johnson.
Bench would be Freddy Brown, Sam Perkins, Detlef Schrempf, Gus Williams, Nate MacMillan and Lenny Wilkens.
Coach would be George Karl.
December 9th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Spencer Haywood was named to the All-NBA First Team in 1972 and 1973 and the All-NBA Second Team in 1974 and 1975. Haywood’s 29.2 points per game in the 1972-73 season and 13.4 rebounds per game in 1973-74 are still the single-season record averages for the SuperSonics for these categories. Haywood played in four NBA All-Star Games while with Seattle, including a strong 23 point 11 rebound performance in 1974. In the 1974-75 season, he helped lead the SuperSonics to their first playoff berth. Overall, during his five seasons with Seattle, Haywood averaged 24.9 points per game and 12.1 rebounds per game(Wikepedia)…..I loved Detlef,Kemp, X-man and others….just don’t see how Haywood isn’t at least on par with Kemp.
December 9th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
thanks JAS i will add those to the site ASAP.
since most teams only use an 9-man rotation, i’ll go with:
1. GP
2. Ray Ray
3. Detlef
4. Kemp
5. Sikma
6. X-Man
7. D J
8. Big Smooth
9. Nate Mac
i proposed this same question over at the Inside Hoops Forum a while back. had to add D J after reading the Bill Simmons book even though he was before my time. feel free to chime in there and bump the thread! http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=154749
December 9th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
Bill Simmons’ book talks a lot about different eras and trends with scoring, defense, size, physical strength, etc. and how statistics don’t communicate fully what happened in a given year.
I think that is one argument to include Kemp over Haywood. again that was before my time so I just can’t say for sure what it was like to idolize Haywood, but i sure can with Kemp in the modern era and what simmons calls the most competitive stretch in NBA history (late 80s to early 90s pre-expansion).
December 9th, 2009 at 3:00 pm
On second thought, Haywood over Schrempf
December 9th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
I wonder who won the drug battle between Haywood and Kemp?
December 9th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
No winners there.
During their time with the Sonics, Haywood won the minutes battle in large part due to Kemp never figuring out how to avoid the ticky-tac reach-in fouls.
December 9th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
Don’t see Dale Ellis on anyones list.
December 9th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
“During their time with the Sonics, Haywood won the minutes battle in large part due to Kemp never figuring out how to avoid the ticky-tac reach-in fouls.”
That and that stupid damn hook move with the elbow in the paint. They called that thing almost every time and he still kept using it.
December 9th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
Half watching the Bulls-Hawks game… the Atlanta crowd is pitiful… they should move here. They’ve already moved 5 times already.
December 9th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
Oooooh. Forgot about Dale Ellis aka the Silent Assassin. To this day he is still one of the best shooters I ever saw. He doesn’t make my cut because he didn’t do much else. But he could stroke it.
I went to his basketball camp as a kid. He’d come in and do shooting demonstrations. He was a great shooter in games. When nobody was on him, just him and the hoop …….he never missed. I mean never.
December 9th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
I was also a big Dana Barros fan back in the day. I always liked rooting for the little guy who could bomb from 3 and dunk at 5′11″.
December 9th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
I used to live in Seattle for may years and was a huge Sonics fan. I know live in Dallas and I am unfortunately live hours away from some family in Tulsa, OK. We were invited this year to a Thunder game and I politely said F**K NO!!! It’s been more than a year now and every time I see a Thunder shirt or see highlights on ESPN or just hear that name I get upset all over again. I hope every DIE HARD Sonics fan feels the same way. The casual fair weather fan can do what ever you do until your so called favorite team is popular or successful.
I don’t wish what happened to the Sonics and Seattle on any other city, but I really believe that Ballmer will buy the Sacramento Kings next year. The state will I think reluctantly approve SB 6116 in January 2010 just after the NBA announces the Kings are for sale after California doesn’t approve funding for a new arena in Sacramento. After SB 6116 is approved the NBA will make sure Ballmer is an owner and the Sonics are resurrected in Seattle soon. Memphis, New Orleans, Indiana, Milwaukee and Charlotte are also possibilities for Seattle, but I really believe Sacramento is the ticket. The timing is perfect and they have until Jan, 2010 to approve a new arena or they will be moved.
On more happier memorable time my ALL TIME SONICS TEAM….Hmmmmmmmm
G Gary Payton
G Ray Allen
F Shawn Kemp
F Xavier McDaniel
C Jack Sikma
BENCH: Detlef, Mac-10, Haywood, Lewis, Dale Ellis, Brown and Big Smooth to spread the defense.
Karl would be coaching of course.
I check this website daily and am doing my do diligence here in Dallas to keep the Sonics alive and make sure that whenever I talk sports with anyone at work (Nordstrom) from Oklahoma (and I run into a lot of them) I make sure they know the truth of why they got the Sonics and encourage them to watch Sonicsgate. It wasn’t about the fans as they think it was about greed, no loyalty and the powers that be controlling everything from the sale, the gutting of the team, the lies and back stabbing and the calculated effort for the NBA to make Seattle the poster boy for all other cities to follow if they didn’t bend over and grab their ankles for the NBA. I honestly think after Durant ,Green and Westbrook all leave via free agency OKC will be sold and play somewhere else by 2018 probably Louisville, St. Louis or KC if they don’t get one of my before mentioned teams.
Sonics fans keep the memories alive and continue to support this team and it’s history and shoe the NBA that they made a huge mistake and that they need to come back ASAP. They need us more than we need them.
Who’s the King of the Westside?????????????????
SUPER………..SONICS!!!
December 9th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/mobile/?type=story&id=2010467349
Did u guys see this… $200 mil for memorial stadium but we can let the Supes go. WTF.
December 9th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
The 3 top performers in the NBA tonight (12/9) are Seattle natives.
http://espn.go.com/nba/dailyleaders
Rodney Stuckey
Jamal Crawford
Brandon Roy
December 9th, 2009 at 11:51 pm
I wonder who won the drug battle between Haywood and Kemp?
- That battle would be epic….
December 10th, 2009 at 12:27 am
I’d give it to Haywood. Did Kemp ever hire a hitman to kill his coach?
December 10th, 2009 at 12:29 am
Sup Eric, I thought I saw Kobe on the top of that list?
Also saw my man Brandon Jennings. Man what a total score for the Bucks that kid is. Imagine having a standout rookie pg - great aspect to build around.
22 days before the Seattle shame is doubled as we lose $30 mil.
December 10th, 2009 at 1:32 am
Hey, I don’t know how many of you know this or have a facebook, but there is a group called 1,000,000 People Want the NBA To Bring Back The Seattle Supersonics!!!
The group already has over 8,000 members and is till groing. I think everybody should join it if they haven’t already. The groups creator plans on Sending the information about the group to the local newspapers. Who knows, if enough of us join it could really help our cause.
Here is the link:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=info&gid=193317341291
December 10th, 2009 at 2:33 am
It’s over 9000 now, which is about how many people actual enjoy the Blunder.
December 10th, 2009 at 3:25 am
Nike commercial from GP’s rookie year - check out how young he looks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnZm4CbiePU
December 10th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Honorable mention for my favorite Supes/all time team: Bones Barry
December 10th, 2009 at 11:50 am
http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/18850386?source=rss_blogs_NBA
NBA Ticket revenue declining.
December 10th, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Can’t view at work…but Im sure that is pretty interesting:
http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/18850386?source=rss_blogs_NBA
December 10th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Can’t view at work…but Im sure that is pretty interesting:
http://tinyurl.com/ygek4wb
December 10th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
The group’s over 11K now!
Speed, when I posted the link those were the top 3. I believe games were still being played so it must have changed.
December 10th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
I remember that GP commercial - seems like only yesterday
December 10th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
Thunder ranked 16th in “actual attendance.”
http://newsok.com/thunder-out-to-fill-more-seats/article/3391661
December 10th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Is anyone in here crazy enough to think Jake Locker should come back for his senior year?
December 10th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Is anyone in here crazy enough to think Jake Locker should come back for his senior year?
- Im not sure it is “should” on either side. I think Jake will be fine no matter which side he tries. But, I’d lean at this point that he will come back he just seems more Manning then Sanchez to me. Either way I will support him and be glad I got to see some of the things he did.
December 10th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
I’d like to have him come in for one more year. I don’t think UW needs to hand over the keys to Montana right away.
December 10th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
Take what school he goes to out of the equation. If your a Husky fan you clearly would like him to come back. I get that.
But I think its crazy talk to consider losing all that money with a rookie cap and new CBA on the horizon in 2011. By coming back he could possibly be losing anywhere from $20-30 million dollars. Add that to the chance of injury and I think its a no brainer to leave.
December 10th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
PS: The theory that underclassmen are more likely to be a bust at the QB position is complete bunk. College seniors are equally as unsuccessful in terms of ratio.
December 10th, 2009 at 5:04 pm
Locker would be a fool to come back considering the labor situation in the NFL over the next couple years.
Ironically, he’s in the same situation as Robert Swift the year Swift declared. Jump now for the money or wait a year and possibly not be drafted.
December 10th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
A little different in terms of athleticism and talen…..but in terms of rookie cap coming…..yes. Locker could be picked #1 in 2011 and potentially make less than he would this year at say……#5-10. I can’t conciously say that I’d leave $20-30 million on the table in any situation.
December 10th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
the facebook group has just passed 13,000 members! it has gone up by more than 130 members in the last 20 minuets and by more than 4,000 since this morning!
We need to send this to as many people in the press as possible.
WHO SAYS NOBODY CARES ABOUT THE SUPERSONICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 10th, 2009 at 6:40 pm
Agreed … although the chances of him coming back & improving his potential draft position this year are not in his favor, IMO. But it’s hard because the predictions on where he could go in the draft are all over the map. I could see him going anywhere from the low first to third round depending on how he performs at the combine, if he declares of course.
He’s a decent prospect, not one I would spend a top 5 draft pick on, although you could probably say that about most of QB in this class. You don’t see as many NFL teams looking for that scrambling QB type as much as they did eight or nine years ago.
December 10th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
Just sen McGuinn a message on Facebook with a link to the Sonics group. I think its funny that he has had his Facebook page for several months now and has under 3,000 supports, where as the Sonics group has been around for just under four days and has over 13,000 and counting.
I think everybody who has a Facebook should send a message to our new mayors page telling them how they feel on the subject.
December 10th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
i invited about 900 people to the facebook group today. it got linked in the True Hoop bullets today too! http://www.truehoop.com
December 10th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
Ok, so I am gonna be honest, this seemed kinda retarded at first, but this group is at nearly 15,000 people…my goodness.
December 10th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
Pod Vader of ESPN joined the facebook group. Along with Seaton from the Dan Patrick radio show.
That’s two decently sized media names.
December 11th, 2009 at 12:44 am
There is hope once again in Sonics nation! The people are finally standing up to be counted. And its not some tiny group of die hard fans, its freaking army! I will bet you by noon tomorrow there will be more people in this group than there have been at any event at the Key since the Sonics left. (if not more than the KEy can hold)
This is the start of something big. Lets use this to FINALLY make NIck Licatta and all the other people who said this team and its fans didn’t matter see that 41 years of childhood dreams, memories, excitement, sadness and love DO ACTUALLY HAVE A CULTURAL AND ECONOMIC VALUE FAR BEYOND THAT OF A SCULPTURE PARK!!!!!!!!!!!
December 11th, 2009 at 1:03 am
We need that list of all the local politicians emails. We need to get back on that, have many from that group email them a standarized letter, link them to the growing group and make them take notice that there needs to be an NBA team in Seattle. We are getting to a percentage that people need to take notice.
Granted not all are from Seattle, but still, I highly doubt they’ll check every person. It’s political pressure.
Credit Joshua for the idea.
December 11th, 2009 at 1:16 am
Almost to 16,000 this is ridiculous.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:44 am
Okay, i have distro lists with just email addresses for both Senate and Reps in word document, as well as a letter ready.
December 11th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
Great, I killed the thread….
December 11th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Interesting article on NBA revenues, thanks for sharing. It’s so sad to see Detroit, OMG they are imploding over there in every which way. And we think we have it bad. I imagine Pistons have to climb to the top of the list of teams that have the potential to relocate after this news.
December 11th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
I just invited 40 people to the Bring Back the Sonics group.
December 11th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
Holy shit we have 17,600 members and counting!
December 11th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Detroit is done as a city. They’ve lost a majority of their industry and it could continue to plummet there.
Maybe the Pistons could move back to Ft. Worth.
December 11th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Adam, why not send something out on the SOS mailing list asking folks to join the facebook group?
December 11th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
Sorry if this is a repeat - but a funny article on KD and plus/minus:
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/11459/kevin-durant-eats-plusminus-for-breakfast
December 11th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
What has changed, Stern acknowledged, is that the NBA can no longer oppose g ambling on moral grounds.
“Considering the fact that so many state governments — probably between 40 and 50 — don’t consider it immoral, I don’t think that anyone [else] should,” Stern went on. “It may be a little immoral, because it really is a tax on the poor, the lotteries. But having said that, it’s now a matter of national policy: G ambling is good.”
Here come the Vegas Kings.
December 11th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
I just sent Percy Allen an email with a link to the Facebook group and asked him to at least spread the word about if he can not writ an article about it.
December 11th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
Rashard Lewis: The idiocy continues…
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Suicide-lines-Lewis-Van-Gundy-tiff-Maggette-ba;_ylt=AsbvMqv0wdvkn4.6VTT9K3q8vLYF?urn=nba,208009
December 11th, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Thats a nice article speedcat.
I’m not saying that +/- isn’t relevent. The inner geek in me likes to look at those numbers from time to time.
KD went from one of the worst to one of the top how? His D looks pretty much the same to me. Is he that much better than last year? His numbers are up slightly across the board, yet he is shooting a lower percentage from the field. Yet his +/- skyrockets?
Kind of shows how dependent +/- is on your teammates and team performance doesn’t it?
December 11th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
“Kind of shows how dependent +/- is on your teammates and team performance doesn’t it?”
Totally. I just thought it was funny how much hate mail Henry Abbott got from OKC for just weighing in on the debate. I think there’s a bit of insecurity going on over there.
Meanwhile if anyone is on Facebook, for a great belly laugh try changing your Language Settings to “English - Pirate”.
December 11th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
I was totally wrong about this guy BTW. I thought he’d be a stiff for sure. But it shows the effect your team can have……
Brook Lopez
19 ppg
9 rpg
2 bpg
.499 fg%
PER: +21.9
+/- = -8.9
December 11th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
BTW: I case anyone is interested in reading that Stern piece, here’s the link:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/ian_thomsen/12/11/weekly.countdown/
December 11th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Anyone else hear that Stern is thinking about wanting to get betting legalized on NBA games to create another revenue stream going for the NBA?
1. Anyone see anything wrong with this?
2. Anyone think those new arenas are really drawing in the numbers that Sterns wants?
December 11th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
Anyone else hear that Stern is thinking about wanting to get betting legalized on NBA games to create another revenue stream going for the NBA?
LOL. Why no, I hadn’t heard that.
December 11th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
NBA wouldn’t see any money from sports betting. Not a revenue stream.
December 11th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
Betting is not a revenue stream for the NBA.
December 11th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/ian_thomsen/12/11/weekly.countdown/index.html
December 11th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
I just saw a picture of Jazz players in uniforms with Soncs colors. That’s not right.
December 11th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
“I just thought it was funny how much hate mail Henry Abbott got from OKC for just weighing in on the debate. I think there’s a bit of insecurity going on over there.”
Are you talking about the same place that threw a temper tantrum when Nick Collison tweeted “the weather is nice in Seattle”? Nah. No deeply-rooted pathologies at work down there.
December 11th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
“Kind of shows how dependent +/- is on your teammates and team performance doesn’t it?”
By itself, yes. A better way to measure is to compare a team’s +/- when Player X is on the court with its +/- when he is off the court.
December 11th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
Wow. I didn’t see that article. Thats pretty crazy Kevin. Talk about a complete 180 from Stern. But that type of flipping in stance from Stern doesn’t surprise anyone here. This comes out right after the Donaghy deal too. Pretty poor PR.
December 11th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
I think Stern also assumes alot when he feels that betting would lead to more of an interest in the league……..thus improving revenue. Maybe it would though. I’m a gambler……but I don’t think legalized betting would necessarily drive me to go to more games.
“By itself, yes. A better way to measure is to compare a team’s +/- when Player X is on the court with its +/- when he is off the court.”
That would make sense. But even that could heavily depend on who is out on the floor when player X is not.
December 11th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
Its interesting. Look at the Nuggets
According to +/- their best five man unit is Billups, Melo, Affalo, Nene, and Martin.
Yet individually
Melo is +6 on. +11 off. Billups +3 on. + 13 off.
B. Roy is a +4 on. +6 off.
Its hard to argue that Denver or Portland is a better team with these guys off the floor…..no matter what individual +/- says.
December 11th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
19,637 members and counting for the Bring back our Sonics group on FB!! I invited several friends only to find out a lot of them had already joined. Let’s keep up the momentum!! : )
December 11th, 2009 at 9:42 pm
Im trying to, but I’m running out of people to tell. Still, it keeps going up so we can only hope to reach at least 50,000 within about a month.
WE NEED TO SEND THIS TO AS MANY LEADERS AND PRESS PEOPLE AS WE CAN!
AND GET AS MANY OF THE PEOPLE FROM THAT GROUP TO SEND IN LETTERS TO ELECTED OFFICIALS!
THIS IS THE REBIRTH OF THE SUPERSONICS!
December 11th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
My All Time Sonics Team:
Starters:
F Haywood
F Kemp
C Sikma
G Payton
G Allen
Bench:
G G. Williams
F Schrempf
G Brown
G Wilkens
G Ellis
F Chambers
C Perkins
Honorable Mention: D. Johnson, Lewis, McDaniel, McMillian, Rule, Snyder, Pierce, Shelton, Durant.
December 11th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
WTF is with Mike Seely?
First was this:
There’s a scene toward the end of Sonics-gate in which Reid films himself chasing an SUV whisking Bennett away from the lease-breaking proceedings at the federal courthouse. If Reid had been in Cleveland when the Browns made their escape to Baltimore, he’d have wielded a baseball bat and smashed his way into the vehicle. But that wouldn’t be very Seattle, and explains in part why our Sonics are now Oklahoma City’s Thunder.
http://www.seattleweekly.com/2009-12-09/film/sonicsgate-how-howard-schultz-and-david-stern-lost-our-nba-franchise/
then this…
http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2009/12/brad_keller_not_only_fired_up.php
I am not liking his bitching.
December 11th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
What, no Scheffler?
December 11th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
“Isn’t that any sports franchise, though?
It is, but some fans and some cities stand by their teams and provide facilities for them in good and bad times.”
WTF! Is that Brad Keller just calling us out or WHAT?
December 11th, 2009 at 9:55 pm
uh… Mike Seely, I’m kinda glad we’re not Cleveland in that respect. Jason would be in jail, the Sonics would have left regardless, and the movie probably would not have gotten made. Mike Seely, how exactly does that explain why Seattle’s Supersonics are now in OKC?
December 11th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
Oops forgot:
Coach: Wilkens
Karl had higher winning %, but Wilkens coached the team successfully at two very different times in their history. He is the only one with the ring.
Owner: Sam Schulman. He made his mistakes, but he made the whole thing happen. He cared.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
All Time Sonics bench warmer stars:
C Scheffler
G Stansbury
F Skinner
G Hassett
C Swift
December 11th, 2009 at 10:07 pm
more media for Sonicsgate:
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20091211/ENT/712119969
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=sbd.main&ArticleID=135469
http://www.seattlepostglobe.org/2009/12/10/the-art-house-beat-get-riled-over-sonicsgate-then-celebrate-earth-days
“This is unequivocally the most exciting political drama since “All The President’s Men,” ”
http://seattle.metblogs.com/2009/12/11/weekend-film-agenda-december-11/
December 11th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
Over 20k!
December 11th, 2009 at 11:52 pm
December 12th, 2009 at 12:39 am
My all time Sonics bench warmers
PG Shamond Williams
SG ibrahime kutalai
SF Ansu sesay
PF Steve Scheffler
C Jelanie Mccoy
Bench to the bench
PG moochie norris
SG Joe Forte
SF LAzaro Borrell
PF Olumedei Oiedeji
C VAldamir Stepania
C Andreas Glyniadakas
SF Chuck Person
PF Pervis Elson
Yeas, I know that’s a lot and that I misspelled a ton of their names, but you get the idea.
December 12th, 2009 at 1:02 am
Man, why don’t anyone ever mention Gerald Paddio?
December 12th, 2009 at 1:41 am
December 12th, 2009 at 1:41 am
http://www.thelostogle.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/oklahoma-city-thunder-logo.jpg
December 12th, 2009 at 2:40 am
I also want to add David Wingate to my list. His last year on the Sonics consisted of 1 game played. To this day, i have never seen a person with “severe tendinitis in the knee” jump so high! especially considering the dress shoes and three piece suit. Good memories!
December 12th, 2009 at 7:28 am
I dont know about all of you but I have grown weary of the OKC bashing. I mean sure it was cathartic in the begining but the more hate I read on here the more petty it seems. I mean we really should get our house in order ourselves before casting stones. We definitely live in a large glass house. While we bicker and bemoan the fact that we cant scrape together money to renovate KeyArena, those okies have passed another huge tax initiative to continue improving their city (to the tune of $777 million!).
http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-voters-say-yes-to-maps-3-proposal/article/3423715?custom_click=lead_story_title
So now we know there wont be a special session. There wont be $30 Million coming from Clay. So where do we stand? What’s the next step? Let’s find a way to put a team back in Seattle so our Okie bashing can come on the court. That would truley be cathartic!
December 12th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Just posted the FB group’s link on Mike McGinn’s personal page. Hopefully he actually checks it himself and isn’t just having some intern run it for him.
December 12th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
The power of Yao:
Tracy McGrady is on-pace to start in the all-star game
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/12/10/allstar.vote.update.1/index.html
Thank goodness Yao Ming was not on the ballot — he would probably be leading the league in votes.
As for Durant . . . his vote tally falls short of those voting for Derrick Rose.
Perhaps there is something to be said for the power of market size.
December 12th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
Rick Sund just sent me his picks for all time greatest sonics team:
PG: Robert Swift
SG: Sene
SF: Johan Petro
PF: Wally Walker
C: Draft Pick to be named later.
December 12th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
December 21 . . . Mark you calendars!!! I’m so giddy with excitment.
The NBA event of the year . . . the battle of the (micro) titans.
On December 21, the Milwaulkie Bucks take on the Indiana Pacers . . . and when the second stringers come off the bench, fans will at last have the opportunity to witness Earl Watson square off against Luke Ridenour.
The imponderable and timeless questions Watson v. Ridenour may finally be answered.
(or did they play against each other last year . . . I really can’t remember).
December 12th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
@Speedcat: if only it had existed 24 hours earlier i would have included the facebook group, but Steve is big on not spamming the list and we just sent that message out. missed it by a hair but we’ll link it in the next one.
come meet Slick Watts @ SIFF tonight!!!!
December 12th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
http://www.treeandleafclothing.com/shirts/93/
December 12th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
D_G Says: December 12th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
“Rick Sund just sent me his picks for all time greatest sonics team:
PG: Robert Swift
SG: Sene
SF: Johan Petro
PF: Wally Walker
C: Draft Pick to be named later.
”
LOL D_G! thanks for the laughs
December 12th, 2009 at 3:11 pm
@Adam - did you see the Seattle Post Globe article! What a great supportive article for y’all.
December 12th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
Wow, the metblogs guy sure came off like a self-righteous elitist prick, although I guess there’s no such thing as bad press …
December 12th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
NBA All Star voting is as broken as the league is. I think they should have the players/coaches vote for the starters…….the fans can vote in the reserves.
Yao definitely benefits from the Chinese vote which takes 30% of the online voting. But so do the other players like Lebron, Kobe, Wade, T-Mac, and Garnett. They are arguably more popular in China than Yao is.
My votes:
West: Nash, Kobe, Melo, Durant, and Amare
East: Wade, Joe Johnson, Bosh, Lebron, and Howard
December 12th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
Ahh Watson vs Ridnour. Those were the days
December 12th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
“Yao definitely benefits from the Chinese vote which takes 30% of the online voting. But so do the other players like Lebron, Kobe, Wade, T-Mac, and Garnett. They are arguably more popular in China than Yao is. ”
I don’t get it.
December 12th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
http://www.seattlepi.com/movies/1402ap_us_detroit_film_crews.html
decline of western civilization
December 12th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Look at jersey sales in China. Yao Ming is consistently outsold by other players in his own country. Its probably safe to assume that those players get the international vote too. I’d be willing to bet that T-Mac gets a ton of votes from China as a benefit of being on his team.
December 12th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
My votes:
West: Nash, Kobe, Melo, Durant, and Amare
East: Wade, Joe Johnson, Bosh, Lebron, and Howard
Did you really pick Durant over Dirk? I guess it’s close - but Dirk is playing as well as he was during the MVP year IMO.
Here are my votes…
West: Nash, Kobe, Melo, Dirk, Bynum
East: Rondo, Wade, Lebron, Bosh, Howard
Hardest vote for me was Rondo/Joe Johnson. In the end I went with the better team record.
December 12th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Can’t argue against Dirk either.
I totally agree on the 2nd guard in the East. Wade is clearly a lock. It was between Rondo and Johnson for me. I think you could make a case for Arenas too. Maybe Vince for some people. Brandon Jennings probably should have been on the ballot too.
December 12th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
Yeah, Jennings should have been on the ballot at least - if Courtney Lee made it on…
I agree with your comment that the selection process is busted. If I had my way, I’d likely have the coaches/players vote on the entire roster except for maybe the last 2 selections, and let the fans pick the starters from the pre-selected bunch and get to name the final two selections.
Interesting that the East has 3 likely starters that could be changing uniforms next season in Wade/Bosh/Lebron.
December 12th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
23,000 and counting…
December 12th, 2009 at 11:37 pm
so is it plateauing or what? seems like it exploded & now it’s slowing a bit? I bet it levels out around 40K. Any takers?
December 13th, 2009 at 12:39 am
Frank Olenick
December 13th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Actually, the group has added over 2,000 members in the last 18 hours and over 100 in the last 30 minuets. It just looks like it is slowing down because the number is so high. It’s one thing to watch something go from 6,000 to 10,000. It is a huge increase in terms of percent. But the same gain in people when you go over 20,000 is a much smaller percent even though it is an equal number of added members.
December 13th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
And if I am not mistaken, Sonicsgate is nearing 75,000 viewers online?
December 13th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
I think it’ll be pretty hard to get 1 mm since its such a niche group. There aren’t a lot of groups on FB with 1 mm. Good work though!
December 13th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
Yeah, even the LA Lakers don’t have a PAGE (let alone a group) with more than about 6 or 700,000 people. Ironically, a great deal of the groups out there that have posted a million members or more, are people that hate a certain aspect or policy of Facebook or looking to do social experiments/guiness records. “Gimmicky” stuff…however, for a team that is no longer an organization, this is unprecedented growth from what I can tell. I could be wrong, but we are looking at about a 1,000 member rate per day at this point, still impressive.
December 13th, 2009 at 6:41 pm
Just noticed Tyreke Evans was averagin 20/5/5 - statistically every bit as impressive as Jennings. Suprised he isn’t getting more publicity with the Kings overachieving thus far.
From a stats/game/build perspective he could end up being Michael Finley reincarnate - only Evans is putting up similiar #’s to Finley’s peak when he’s only 20 - wow!
December 13th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Yeah Evans has been pretty under the radar. Even though I’m not a big fan of Kevin Martin…..they could have a nice little back court down there in Sactown in the future.
They might even be a better team without Martin taking all the shots.
December 13th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
The Cavs beat the Okies today thanks Lebron……I don’t want the Okies coming anywhere near making the playoffs this year, it is too soon for that. I do believe in 2010 something good will be announced regarding bringing another team here I really do.
December 13th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
I hope for a new team too, but when KD bolts ASAP i’ll drink champaigne.
December 13th, 2009 at 9:22 pm
Almost to 26,000.
December 13th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
Why do you assume Durant is going to bolt he loves it in Okieville. I really don’t give a crap one way or the other that team is gone from us forever. Forget about them and just focus on the future.
December 14th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Its hard to argue that Denver or Portland is a better team with these guys off the floor…..no matter what individual +/- says.
- You’re really going to just cherry pick numbers and consider that a perfect argument? We know you don’t like the stat because it goes against your “I can see this…” reasoning. But, there are still benefits of the stat.
Last night KD was -17 and played 42 minutes and Jeff Green was -3 in 40 minutes…those are the types of things that are interesting to look deeper into. Despite OKCs sucess I still think they’d be better suited to trade Green for someone who complements KD better.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
“You’re really going to just cherry pick numbers and consider that a perfect argument? We know you don’t like the stat because it goes against your “I can see this…” reasoning. But, there are still benefits of the stat.”
Pot. Kettle. Black.
Kind of like how you throw out “I can see this….” because there aren’t any numbers to support it?
I’m just pointing out there are some serious holes in +/- IMO. I’ve never said +/- is not beneficial or valid at all.
December 14th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
Demar Derozen was +22 last night
2 pts (1-4). 2 rebs. 1 blk. in 21 mins
Hedo 23, 5, and 6. Bosh 27,3, and 6. Bargnani 14 and 7. Jack 17, 8 and 8
Luis Scola -12
21 pts (9-18). 15 rebs. 0 TOS. 1 steal. 1 block
Ariza, Hayes, and Battier went a combined 2-18 for 7 pts.
IMO this is completely wack.
December 28th, 2009 at 11:10 pm
You’re really going to just cherry pick numbers and consider that a perfect argument? We know you don’t like the stat because it goes against your “I can see this…” reasoning. But, there are still benefits of the stat.
Last night KD was -17 and played 42 minutes and Jeff Green was -3 in 40 minutes…those are the types of things that are interesting to look deeper into. Despite OKCs sucess I still think they’d be better suited to trade Green for someone who complements KD better………..
Part time work