Sonics Draft Workouts and is the Team Staying?
Posted on Friday, June 2nd, 2006 at 6:10 am by Brian Robinson
According to Allen the team worked out Randy Foye, JJ Reddick, Sheldon Williams, and Patrick O’Bryant over the last two days. Reddick, Williams, and Foye all drew heavy praise.
In other news the Seattle-PI’s Go2Guy, Jim Moore indicates that the Sonics are staying in town. Accordng to Moore’s piece today he ran into Sonics legend Slick Watts at a charity benfit recently.
“According to Slick Watts, the Sonics will not move out of the Seattle area because that’s what team president Wally Walker told him.”
If you don’t know Wally Walker by now then let me be the one to tell you: These type of comments do not slip out by accident. Walker is a calculated speaker and has a plan when he makes comments. That is great news and may indicate that the recent arena silence is indicative of productive negotiations. Keep in mind that the Sonics indicated they wanted terms of a new lease no later than June 1. The date has come and gone without a peep from the team.
June 2nd, 2006 at 7:08 am
I was hoping that when they brought in JJ for a workout they would have also had him up against Carney, Brewer and Marcus Williams.
I’m just not certain that Foye will be there and would have liked to know that the diligence was done with JJ against others as well.
June 2nd, 2006 at 7:21 am
Pitting those two against each other isn’t really simulating for either one what they’ll be going up against every day in the NBA. I agree with Scott that it would have been nice to put them against a 6-6 or 6-7 type defender to see what they’re able to do against more length and athleticism.
That being said, we all know Ray isn’t a very good one-on-one offensive scorer and needs picks and off the ball play to get his points. Redick has an almost identical game which is why I have to think he is the target. Bring him in on the second team and you can run all the same plays you’ve created to get Ray open. I think we really suffer for shooting when Ray goes to the bench - would be great to have another lights-out shooter to pick up the slack. Foye sounds like more of a Flip Murray type player that needs the ball in his hands to create offense, although he sounds like the kind of defensive player we could use.
June 2nd, 2006 at 7:47 am
I’m fearful of talk about Reddick, Morrison or any player short on defense and athleticism. We have a teamful of “score first” players, adding toughness and stopping the other team is where we were lacking. Foye is an interesting possibility if there at 10. Williams and O’bryant don’t seem to fill a need unless there are other moves involved or Wilcox isn’t signed.
It is nice to hear about workouts for a change if only to provide something to talk about.
June 2nd, 2006 at 9:28 am
6 of the first 8 were bigs. But I dont read anything into this yet as there will be another wave of 8 and perhaps 8-12 more to deal with second round picks. The announcement after the workout may be a courtesy now considered appropriate / helpful to keep the players and agents happy and to get them to come workout.
June 2nd, 2006 at 9:36 am
Recycled predictable cant confirm rumour or first sign of things to come?
“Bob Whitsitt’s group wants to buy either the Sonics or Blazers, according to a BenMaller.com NBA mole. Since the Sonics are not officially on the block and have that huge building problem, Portland is a more likely choice for him. Our mole says it would be ironic that Whitsitt might buy the team he was finally fired from, plus the city of Portland can’t stand him.”
Until I hear him make a public statement I’ll treat it as the former.
June 2nd, 2006 at 11:04 am
Here’s my random mock-draft:
1: Aldridge
2: Thomas
3: Gay
4: Morrison
5: Foye
6: O’Bryant
7: Roy
8: Redick
9: Bargani
10: Williams
11: Carney
12: Brewer
13: Simmons
Some is which I think is likely, some is random guessing, and one is what I’m hopeful for.
June 2nd, 2006 at 11:12 am
I should clarify, we get Shelden Williams, Marcus slips because I don’t know of a team other than Atlanta that’d be interested in a PG.
June 2nd, 2006 at 12:51 pm
I think Ray has a much, much better ability of creating his shot off the dribble then Redick. Although you could never compare Ray to DWade or MJ in creating shots he is (IMO) not someone like Reggie Miller or Rip Hamilton who has to run off tons of picks to get an open look.
June 2nd, 2006 at 1:54 pm
“That being said, we all know Ray isn’t a very good one-on-one offensive scorer and needs picks and off the ball play to get his points.”
That’s not true. The PnR is used to create mismatches, open more options, keep all the players involved in the offense, and pound small guards (or leave a big trying to cover a smaller player).
Ray takes guys off the dribble at times, but it’s not something Seattle wants to do offensively.
Redick should be avoided because he doesn’t fill a need. We need toughness on the defensive perimeter. Redick could be valuable if our bigs were farther along and they demanded doubles, but that’s a ways down the road.
June 2nd, 2006 at 2:00 pm
Or Shelden Williams. Sonics finished 21st in rebounding difference.
5th in getting offensive rebounds (down a little from 2nd the year before) but 29th next to worst in allowing them (way down from 15th ranked the previous season).
June 2nd, 2006 at 2:03 pm
Shelden might play like a veteran. Will be 23 before season starts, well ahead of Swift and Petro in age and amount of time playing high level competition.
June 2nd, 2006 at 2:21 pm
Players that I want to draft:
B-Roy,
Reddick,
Morrison (if he falls we MUST get him)
Rodney Carney (my N.1 choice right now, athletic SF/SG plays defense)
Players I don’t want to draft:
Tiago Splitter (This guy might be… simply not good enough for the NBA. His hype was riding the wave of foreign sensation)
Sheldon Williams (I think we are too crowded up front. Unless we don’t look forward to keeping Wilcox… at this point we don’t need another big man)
Cedric Simmons,
and basically any big men in this draft.
June 2nd, 2006 at 2:52 pm
Now that I think about it. My reluctant to select a big man hinges on my expectation of the return of Chris Wilcox.
However, there is ONE big man that I want in this draft and wouldn’t mind picking over Wilcox.
TYRUS THOMAS.
From what I saw in the tourney, this guy has a reliable fade-away jumper, very quick first step for big man … basically he is more refined on the offensive end than Wilcox.
Both are equally explosive, but Thomas has the tools to become a great defensive player.
Will you trade up to get Thomas?
then S-N-T Wilcox + someone for a player like… ahh.. Paul Pierce?
your thoughts my fellow supes frenatic..
June 2nd, 2006 at 3:15 pm
I’m wit you on Tyrus Thomas, GP. He’s THE MAN in this draft.
Lewis and Wilcox (S&T) to Chicago for Tyrus and Loul Deng.
Money in the bank for 2007 free agents.
Draft Brewer at #10.
June 2nd, 2006 at 3:27 pm
I’m all over Tyras Thomas, I think he’s the man of the draft and the only reason Aldridge would go over him is the need for size in Toronto.
I’d do the Chicago trade suggested if it were at all possible, but I’m not sure it is. Lewis, Collison and the #10 for Deng and Tyrus?
I’d consider throwing in next year’s #1 too, but I’m crazy about Tyrus’s upside. He’s definitely a better defensive player than Wilcox, which is why I’m high on Shelden Williams.
I’d rather take Williams in the draft and allow us flexibility going into free agency to SAT Wilcox or trade Collison, Petro or Swift if we could somehow nab a franchise player.
A guy coming in like Harpring gives us a solid veteran swing player to fill in for Lewis/Allen off the bench and plays solid defense that we need.
We don’t really need a non-vet swing player on this team, as already stated, we’ve got Gelabale and Wilkens already.
June 2nd, 2006 at 3:32 pm
I agree, Brewer at #10, for his versatility. (I’d love Roy, but we only get him if we deal up.)
June 2nd, 2006 at 3:58 pm
Shelden would be a solid pick.
June 2nd, 2006 at 4:01 pm
Am I the only guy in Seattle that watched what Maurice Ager did for Michigan St. last year? Is there anyone else who thinks he would be a good fit for the Sonics at backup 2 Guard? All the people that would like the Sonics to draft Brandon Roy should take a look at Ager; he has the exact same skill set with more athleticism. Sure he is about 1″ shorter than Roy but that is why Roy may already be off the board when the Sonics pick.
June 2nd, 2006 at 4:51 pm
Yeah, Ager would be a great fit. But people seem to get stuck on Roy because we don’t live in Michigan.
My picks?
Splitter
Carney
Ager
Brewer
This is such a shot in the dark. If I were the Sonics, I’d trade the pick. This is the weakest draft I can remember. Still, we could all be wrong.
June 2nd, 2006 at 5:23 pm
I love this forum:) No where on the net can you get such good chatter on Sonic-specific draft talk.
I still like Carney as my realistic #10, but I would be all over the chance to get a Thomas or even better Gay if the opportunity presented itslef to draft up on the cheap. Remember, as spelled out by Mr Robinson himself, trade value for picks this year is projected to be low. That means that even though our #10 might not be worth all that much, the same logic would apply to the teams trying to draft out who have picks ahead of us. What would you guys be willing to give up for a #4-5 pick? I’m a sucker for high-risk high-reward picks… Unless your name is Splitter that is.
June 2nd, 2006 at 8:55 pm
True, there is almost certainly some smoke being blown up somewhere, but it is almost a “sure thing” that the people they draft will at some time rotate through for a workout.
Then again, Swift never came in.
June 3rd, 2006 at 12:49 am
Besides Tyrus Thomas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTfHMilglsk&search=rudy%***ay
Rudy Gay is the other player I’ll trade up for.
He is too fluid for a SF… Will you guys rather have Gay or Lewis?
I still think Lewis’ true potential is yet to be tapped. I’m very excited about his workout with Bob Hill this summer. He has improved every season and there’s no reason for me to suspect otherwise next season.
I’m torn about Lewis/Gay.
June 3rd, 2006 at 12:02 pm
Sheldon Williams reminds me a heck of a lot of Wayne Simien who last year reportedly was stellar in workouts and a potential lottery guy before he fell down to one of the final picks in the first round. He hasn’t made an impact this season.
June 3rd, 2006 at 1:33 pm
“I still think Lewis’ true potential is yet to be tapped. I’m very excited about his workout with Bob Hill this summer. He has improved every season and there’s no reason for me to suspect otherwise next season.”
I’ve been thinking that Lewis’ agent might have advised him to primarily stay out on the perimeter, laying off of posting up or driving too much, until he gets his new contract, due to the shoulder issues he’s had. Once he gets his new contract or extension, he might be more willing to go down low more often.
I still think the Sonics will trade him, however…
June 3rd, 2006 at 1:46 pm
“I find it hard to believe that Atlanta would trade the #5 pick and a pretty good young player for the #1 pick and a horrible player when this draft is so weak.”
Ak’s post moves around but I read it that Atlanta would do this to take Aldridge at #1 and Toronto does it because they still take Bargnani at 5.
I could see Atlanta interested in Aldridge with Harrington becoming very expensive or gone and their glut of 6-8 athletes and need of a backup center. I could see the appeal to Atlanta too.
Altogether an interesting speculation. Not sold it will happen but it isnt crazy. I find no reason to jump on his opinons in this post. Eveyone presents differnt takes and folks disagree but let’s stay civil.
June 3rd, 2006 at 1:51 pm
should be “I could see the appeal to “Toronto” too…
Childress for Araujo seems worth a shift down if you really dont think you have room for Aldridge and really like Bargnani. I’d still take Aldridge if I was them over Bargnani, for some reason I am very skeptical he translates as much more than a Radmanovic.
June 3rd, 2006 at 1:57 pm
If I am right about what AK meant and myk misunderstood I can see how, in that misunderstanding of what was meant, AK’s trade would seem way off. If it were the Hawks taking Bargnani and giving up Childress, that would seem quite bizarre to me too.
I misread some stuff too.
AK can correct me if I am wrong on what he meant but I thought I’d share my read of it in the meantime.
June 3rd, 2006 at 2:26 pm
“Sheldon Williams reminds me a heck of a lot of Wayne Simien who last year reportedly was stellar in workouts and a potential lottery guy before he fell down to one of the final picks in the first round. He hasn’t made an impact this season.”
If you’re talking about them having the same type of “game,” I have to disagree.
For the most part Williams makes his presence felt with his shot blocking and rebounding. He has a hook shot, but a lot of his stuff comes from putbacks. Simien’s forte was offense, and I don’t think he was much of a shot blocker.
They are built similarly, but Simien had injury problems too. I think this line from draftexpress.com explains a big reason Simien fell so far:
“It’s not good to see a player who will be forced to rely on brute strength and physicality come up lame so often.”
June 3rd, 2006 at 3:10 pm
I know Simien had history of injuries at KU but I am not aware of any of his DNPs this season in the NBA being because of injuries , I think they are all due to lack of opportunity at his positions. I see no reported injury days on his profile this year.
June 3rd, 2006 at 3:16 pm
Collison overcame and folks let it go. I’d give Siemen the benefit right now. I also might tell him to loose 10-20 pounds and play summer league to tuneup his handles and outside shot from a season of rust. That is what he should use from the PF postion. Against backup centers I think he could still have an inside game if he uses good footwork and angles. Corliss W., Fizer etc. made it work. I still think Siemen could figure it out and be pretty good.
June 3rd, 2006 at 3:24 pm
MIN PTS REB AST A/T STL FG% FT% 3P%
A)37.1 26.8 2.0 2.6 1.06 1.4 .470 .863 .421
B)36.7 25.4 4.3 3.1 1.12 1.8 .462 .847 .401
I’m not sure if the above will format, but check out the #’s of these two 2-gurads that the Sonics could be targeting. Both guys played against top level NCAA competition. Without looking, see if you can guess who they are.
June 3rd, 2006 at 3:34 pm
In 17 games where Siemen played longer for an average of 18 minutes he got more than 6 pts 5 rebs. Not bad.
June 3rd, 2006 at 3:36 pm
Pretty close to Swift’s season numbers and many see them as promising. There are compared to the very poor numbers of many bigmen.
June 3rd, 2006 at 3:43 pm
Siemen’s points per 48 better than Haslem and Posey but not Walker, rebounds per 48 better than Posey and Walker but not Haslem.
One on one defense of PFs: 42% eFG% allowed for only 15 points, better than all three and Siemen in very limited time at SF gives up a very low FG% and at center a moderately low points allowed.
June 3rd, 2006 at 5:10 pm
“AK[1984] can correct me if I am wrong on what he meant but I thought I’d share my read of it in the meantime.”
The Atlanta Hawks would trade up to the #1 pick and select LaMarcus Aldridge, while the Toronto Raptors would trade down to the #5 pick and still be able to select Andrea Bargnani.
Furthermore, The Hawks would acquire Rafael Araujo, who would backup Zaza Pachulia at center; in addition, the Raptors would acquire Josh Childress, who would share time at shooting guard along with Morris Peterson.
June 3rd, 2006 at 5:24 pm
I meant defensively in my last post. Offensively I’m betting they may be similar. Simien’s decent in the post on offense.
June 3rd, 2006 at 6:20 pm
Watching that clip had my dreaming of a 3-on-1 with Ridnour running the break, with Wilcox and Gay on the wings. Holy $#!T !!
I’d ditch Lewis for Gay in a heartbeat. Rashard means well but lets face it: he’s soft, injury-prone, can’t guard a chair, scores points but not ever when you need them, and in line for an outrageously overinflated payday.
I can’t stress enough that we don’t have a single guy on our roster that can defend the opposing team’s best swingman. And 6′1″ Earl Watson doesn’t count.
June 4th, 2006 at 12:13 am
AK:
— See there you go, at least you admit it =).
However, I think that ATL needs a PG just as bad (worse??) than a big man so if it was a choice between getting Aldridge and giving up Childress or keeping childress and getting a guy like Marcus Williams it seems like you’d want to go with the better talent. I can’t beleive that anyone would trade for Arauojo who is the biggest bust in the last five years of the draft.
June 4th, 2006 at 4:02 am
Any way the Sonics could get Childress? How about for Collison and Wilkins (Atlanta loves Dominique and would like his nephew). Atlanta needs another big PF/C type. I know it doesn’t seem like enough, but I can dream. I’d love to have Sheldon Williams and Josh Childress at the end of the draft!
June 4th, 2006 at 10:15 am
If Araujo made the”leap” from 2 points on 2 shots and 3 rebounds in 12 minutes to say 5 points on 4-5 shots and 4 rebounds in around 20 minutes he’d equal Petro this year on those criteria. If he sprung all the way to 7 pts 6 rebs in that amount of time he’d be just ahead of Swift on those. The problem is his defense is almost as bad and he has more weight and more experience so less excuse. I think Araujo probably can handle the first leap, maybe the second leap in production if a team needed him like Atlanta does. To get a backup center is worth something. Nesterovic is only a 4.5 pts 4 rebs guy and Mohammed 6pts and 5 rebs. They got paid and contributed a little on the borads and defense regular season. There are so few decent true centers. I can see the reason for the movement away from them. The more that move away the easier for the rest to do so. After Shaq goes we probably see most teams play 2 power forwards like Toronto already does.
June 4th, 2006 at 10:20 am
If that is the league movement is having 2 young “centers” retro thinking that might not pan out as well as hoped or a potential source of advantage in a world that will have fewer and fewer true centers? Or is the pretty good movement and developing shooting capability of one or both such they can be a practical power foward or at least guard them?
June 4th, 2006 at 10:32 am
More succinctly:
Unless the big is Shaq, then a smaller guy CAN guard a big guy. But a big guy can’t guard a little guy (in today’s NBA). So the key is getting versatile small guys (6′-6′10″).
June 4th, 2006 at 10:51 am
If more and more centers in the future are really powerforwards then they both may have to be able to guard powerforwards from the “center” spot. The transition to a world of 2 powerforwards playing together may not be rapid or complete but it is something to think about. Araujo appears to be more of a dinosaur that wont be able to cope as well as Petro & Swift. Why be heavy and slow unless you have the ability to score with power? I guess rebouding might still provide an answer (and maybe lane intimidation) but if more and more jumpers start to play center they could start to steal more rebounds from the slower more earthbound guys. Petro seems to be a nice combo of great size and still very athletic. Hakeem has been mentioned as a model to aspire towards. With Swift, McHale has been mentioned before. I’ll mention Gasol as well. As models to aspire towards, but not necessarily reach.
June 4th, 2006 at 11:00 am
I generally agree Chuckles.
At center I think you can use a 6′10 guy if it the right 6′10 guy lik eWilcox who has arecord in LA of guarding centers much better than his record of guarding PFs here. Maybe even the sturdy 6′9 Collison. Use quickness and some outside shots on offense against the remaining dinosaurs.
At power forward 6′10 is best but 6′8 long arms and at least 230 pounds can work. If you have the three point shoot and handles you are a more difficult threat. Ryan Gomes is an example.
At small forward most are closer to 6′6- 6′7 than 6′10 these days I think. Rashard use to be able to cover them pretty well but this year it seemed to slip a lot. His offense makes folks live with the defense but should he maybe play more as a relatively quick shooting powerforward? Maybe in theory but I dont think his body would hold up on defense and they wont ask him to do it.
June 4th, 2006 at 11:12 am
Using this framework about where the league is headed maybe Shelden Williams could play (at least some) at his more comfortable and suited for him center spot. Maybe Wayne Simien could too but as a Doleac type, maybe Sam Perkins if you believe in him.
Rudy Gay looks interesting at both SF and potentially as a smaller quick modern PF type. At PF his speed kills more, his handles less of an issue, his ability to guard smaller men less of a worry.
June 4th, 2006 at 11:15 am
Gay at PF could play more of his preferred inside game.
Shelden at center could leave his lower scoring / less of a threat man more often and more safely to come over and provide shotblocking help defense. Guarding the far better powerforwards he couldnt leave as much without paying dearly for it.
June 4th, 2006 at 11:25 am
At least the talk of Brandon Roy is starting to die down a bit everywhere but on KJR … Roy reminds me a lot of Desmond Mason in terms of a pro prospect … good energy on the defensive end of the floor, on the down side he doesn’t have enough offensive skills to be a starter at either swing position.
He’s kind of a tweener. As I’ve said of Dez, Roy looks like he’ll be a good player at a position where a guy has to be a great player to stick.
Let’s consider something for a moment. Regardless of the percieved need for another shooter, who sits to get Redick in the game? Luke, Ray, Rashard … Redick isn’t a better distributor and he’s certainly no upgrade defensively from any of those three which makes him virtually useless to the Sonics as far as I’m concerned.
Foye, Brewer, Carney would bring a different dimension and presence off the bench. I’m giving Luke Ridnour one more year to ascertain whether or not he’s a platoon player or a true 35 mpg solution.
Morrison isn’t much of a defender or a ballhandler at his position… as others have commented I think at best he’s a 6′7 Vladimir Radmanovic at the NBA level and the last thing the Sonics need to draft are more 1-way players.
June 4th, 2006 at 11:37 am
A couple of links in case you havent seen them:
Kemp at Denver free agent camp with a photo
http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_3897710
Splitter analysis out of Boston:
Because of a buyout — of which the player must pay the majority — that Wallace said is “multi-million dollars,” he believes Splitter is likely stuck in Europe at least one more year.
“His agents want him to be a top-10 player and no team is going to draft a player in the top 10 and let him stay over in Europe a year.
“His buyout is significantly less next year than it is this year.”
http://www.milforddailynews.com/sportsColumnists/view.bg?articleid=93122&format=&page=3
June 4th, 2006 at 11:41 am
— Why doesn’t Roy have enough offensive skills to be able to play in the NBA? I mean he showed more offensive skills than Rudy Gay did when they played H2H and yet people seem to think he would be a great prospect. Also, the fact that he can handle the ball and distribute like a PG would be skills that Desmond never had. I actually think the idea on ESPN.com of ATL drafting Roy and having a backcourt of Johnson/Roy who could both bring the ball up would be a great idea because it would create a mismatch against teams like the Sonics who start a little guard.
— I think both Dallas and Phoenix showed us an idea of where the NBA is going. First, Dallas showed that if your two best guards are considered PGs you might as well start them. Second, Phoenix showed that if you gain an offensive advantage by starting a shorter, quicker player at C you might as well do it. Really, what both teams showed is that you should start your BEST 5 players and run with it. Make the other teams match up with you..
— This leads to the thought that you can start a shorter guy at Center and survive and the talks of moving someone like Collison there. I think that defeats the purpose. The only reason you want to start a smaller guy is so he can be quick enough and athletic enough to gain an advantage. Collison wouldn’t be able to exploit the other center enough to make this a true advantage. Perhaps Wilcox could, and I think Petro should be quick enough. It seems that the day of the slow PF/C who just rebounds and bangs around are about up. This would be an argument against drafting Shelden Williams..
June 4th, 2006 at 11:53 am
Wilcox is a better modern center than Collison and we agree there myk. Shelden’s blocks and greater strength might be reasons he’d be better there than Collison but he isnt the full new model. As backup centers go though he might be pretty good.
June 4th, 2006 at 11:54 am
Memphis reportedly for sale. Another choice for buyers, mainly in the move the team market.
June 4th, 2006 at 11:56 am
Philly worked out Marcus Haislip and is said to be interested in an athletic big like that, in line with the above discussion. I thought he should have been considered here previously on a 10 day.
June 4th, 2006 at 11:59 am
“It seems that the day of the slow PF/C who just rebounds and bangs around are about up.”
Until you realize that the only team running up and down the floor with a smaller PF/C is Phoenix, and they have Steve Nash along with Amare coming back next year that’ll put them on another level…
Everyone else has a guy like Ben Wallace, Shaq/Mourning and Diop/Dampier along with Rasheed/Dice, Haslem and Dirk, who all rebound the ball VERY well.
Nobody else in the NBA is starting 3 SFs and getting to the second round. So until we have Nash at PG and D’Antonoi (sp?) as our coach, why not focus on what’s winning championships every year… defense.
June 4th, 2006 at 12:29 pm
I think Toronto shows big improvement next year, because of the two powerforward model (three if they take Aldridge) especially if they change coaches maybe for Rick Adelman.
June 4th, 2006 at 1:53 pm
oming home one night, I heard on Locke on KJR said the following
“There is a hidden weird trend in the NBA, teams ask for big men… but when it comes to the playoffs, teams go small.”
And then he has some stats to back it up.. like the average height waters down in the NBA… starting centers spends more time on the bench… whatever I don’t remember.
BUT it just hit me like.. AH HA! that is TRUE.
I dont’ remember who said it here but he is right, Sheldon Williams is not the person we need. He is too slow to be spectaculer. We already have two centers working our way, no need to detriment their improvements by adding a third Center in.
The leauge is getting more athletic… which is why I’m salivating for Rudy Gay to fall (I can always dream), or Rodney Carney, or trade up for TYRUS THOMAS, the ideal PF of the next decade!
June 4th, 2006 at 2:40 pm
Diop pretty much was the reason the Mavs survived the Spurs. The Suns barely got past the Lakers and Clippers. It’s a bit of a stretch to think the Suns model is the future of the NBA.
June 4th, 2006 at 2:45 pm
“The leauge is getting more athletic… which is why I’m salivating for Rudy Gay to fall (I can always dream), or Rodney Carney, or trade up for TYRUS THOMAS, the ideal PF of the next decade!”
Thomas at 10 is fine, trading up to get him unless its a dirt cheap trade up is not something I would look to do.
The funny thing about Thomas is that before the tourney he was thought of as a guy who should probably go back to school for one more year but would come out this year because this draft is weak while next years is strong. What is the point in replacing Wilcox with Thomas?
June 4th, 2006 at 3:04 pm
Sorry, but I’ve got to agree with Dobbs here. I think people are overreacting to the Suns and the Suns only. Note that Dallas has different types of players and have been able to match up differently with different opponents. Diop was an important player against the Suns. Dampier was big against the Griz. Detroit has Wallace. San Antonio likes to keep Duncan at PF and took off last year with Nazr at Center.
The fact that Sheldon Williams is DIFFERENT than Wilcox, Swift, and Petro is what can make him valuable.
I’m not saying that he will be “spectacular” (GP wit me?), but it IS the #10 pick. I think he could be a really solid player that brings something that we’ve lost with Fortson being a perennial DNP (or 5 minutes, 5 fouls) and Evans being gone.
TK - I don’t think the Sonics should aspire to be like Toronto, Atlanta, NY, or Boston (yes, you list some good teams, but NJ and Chicago didn’t get far because of the LACK of bigs, and Cleveland is generally all about LeBron).
Some people consider Williams like a Boozer with a better defensive game. I’ll take that at #10 any day of the week!
June 4th, 2006 at 3:05 pm
Scott,
Defense and dollars.
June 4th, 2006 at 3:14 pm
I thought about that angle Kivman and it does have merit. I have no problem with good traditional big men I respect them a lot. When you have on eo rmore it is a helpful force.
But 6 of the 12 teams I named made the playoffs and 3 others thought they would and the 3 worst should be getting better next year. If you dont have a good traditional big man go with the next best thing, as said here before, a good player, a different kind of big (of several subtypes) over a marginal traditional big guy.
June 4th, 2006 at 3:28 pm
Dallas in playoffs plays a center and power forward about 42 minutes a game each and fills the rest with mostly Van Horn really a tall 3 these days.
Dallas definitely emphasized the offensive rebounding with Diop Dampier (6.8 per 48 may be league’s best) and DJ Mbenga. Their heavy use of stat analysis probably recommended it from the center position.
Swift and Petro look like they would rank pretty high on offensive rebounds per 48 lists. Maybe top 10-20 per 48.
June 4th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
Nick is in that same group too, proving you dont have to a 7 footer to do it, as Danny Fortson also showed.
June 4th, 2006 at 3:32 pm
Shelden Williams 4+ offensive rebounds a game was 2nd best in ACC.
June 4th, 2006 at 4:11 pm
To me it comes down to who is available at 10. I think Williams as a 10 pick has a lot of merit.
Note that is Morrison falls to 10 then I think it would be foolish not to take him. I disagree with Steve and think he will be MUCH better than Vlad. He’s more of a leader, willing to mix it up more, has a more varied offensive game, and has the intangibles that Vlad is missing (though I hate to use the “intangibles” card).
June 4th, 2006 at 4:11 pm
Sidiki Sidibe: Petro sized, hasnt produced much in france but was recruited by Kansas. might be a second round stash abroad by possible later recall “He has played only three years of basketball, but he was a captain and starting middle blocker on the French Junior National volleyball team.”
http://www.levallois-basket.com/asp/zon_joueurs/jou_his.asp?jouid=20186
June 4th, 2006 at 4:22 pm
Saer Sene 5 pts 4 rebs 1 block in 12 minutes in europe this year.
June 4th, 2006 at 4:23 pm
72% FG 37% FT
June 4th, 2006 at 4:26 pm
http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1263
reference to Olumide and the usual questions about age
June 4th, 2006 at 8:41 pm
Ok…it can be useful to have a big around that can match up to a certain extent. We have that in Petro and Swift. But what we don’t have is any perimeter defense at all, a real lack of penetrators, and a 3 who doesn’t rebound.
I’ve said it before, and I guess I’ll say it again. Unless Shard has a total attitude adjustment about how good he is (he thinks he’s way better than he is), we need to dump him. For whatever. We’d be a better team right away with Wilkins vs. the Shard that played most of last year….and I’m not a terribly big Wilkins fan. I guess we give Luke another year, but if we get the same player next year, then we need to ditch him too. Giving contracts to these types of players will kill you.
And Morrison is so much different than Vlad it’s ridiculous. Vlad has zero, and I mean zero, in-between game…which just happens to be Morrison’s strength. Additionally Vlad is so non-competitive it’s frightening….again, the exact opposite. Basically they are tall white guys…which is all they have in common (sometimes that’s enough for some people to conclude they are the same player).
June 4th, 2006 at 10:28 pm
— I dont understand why people are using Ben Wallace as an example of having a traditional center. He is only listed at 6′9″ which means he is probably about 6′7″. He is what I am talking about how it is more important to win the C in the athleticism category and not the height category. Although i admit that Diaw is on the lowend with Phoenix…
— Also, my bigger point is that teams are going to start playing their five best players the majority of the minutes. I know this seems like a really “no duh” comment, but some teams seem to think that they still need to start two G, two F and two C. That is no longer the case.
June 5th, 2006 at 5:13 am
“He is what I am talking about how it is more important to win the C in the athleticism category and not the height category.”
Ben Wallace isn’t winning hte ‘athleticism’ catagory very much anymore either. Teams that win generally are those that have the best combination of height, athleticism and knowledge of the game. What makes Wallace so tough is that he’s an incredibly smart player, and incredibly tough player AND he works harder than anyone. Make no mistake though, he’s not nor will he ever be a true PF, he doesn’t have the right game for the position.
“Also, my bigger point is that teams are going to start playing their five best players the majority of the minutes.”
This has always been the case. Why do you think you are making some eye-opening statement here. The Sonics under George Karl did this every freaking night.
“I know this seems like a really “no duh” comment, but some teams seem to think that they still need to start two G, two F and two C.”
This team would win all the time…
June 5th, 2006 at 9:26 am
Scott:
— I forgot about George Karl I mean when he was starting Ervin Johnson and Jim McIlvaine and playing him for 15 minutes a night that was definately the best line-up. Phoenix picks its lineup and rolls with it for the majority of the game.
June 5th, 2006 at 10:04 am
“But what we don’t have is any perimeter defense at all”
A solid perimeter defense always starts with the interior. If you don’t have someone protecting the paint to ward off guys slashing to the hoop, then the guys on the perimeter have to worry about their man getting by them all the time.
With Miami though, they had to be concerned about Shaq so much if they left him on help defense that it eliminated a fear of going to the hoop.
On the other end, guys like Jason Williams and Antoine Walker play nill defense at PG and SF compared to other guys in the league, but with Shaq and Mourning guarding the paint, they can at least know they can protect against the jumpshot and not always have to worry about getting beat.
Perimeter defenders are easier/cheaper to find, you MUST get someone in the paint first before they even matter.
As for Shelden being too slow, I think his lack of footspeed is being overblown here. Detroit ran with Ben Wallace a lot and they’ve got about the same speed/athleticism.
I don’t see that both Petro and Swift panning out, along with Collison mostly being a non-factor, so honestly I’m all for trading Collison and giving Petro a minor role. I’m not sure why everyone thinks all 4 of the guys we have at PF/C right now are the answer.
As for the whole, PFs playing C thing TK’s going on about. This has been the case for quite a while. Nothing new there. KVH is a PF now though, no way with his footspeed can he be anything near a 3 these days. Just like Robert Horry became a 4 a few years back instead of a tweener. He’s just a 4 with an outside game.
June 5th, 2006 at 10:07 am
“— I forgot about George Karl I mean when he was starting Ervin Johnson and Jim McIlvaine and playing him for 15 minutes a night that was definately the best line-up. Phoenix picks its lineup and rolls with it for the majority of the game.”
So did George.
You look at those teams: Perkins played 33 minutes a night, Kemp played 38, Schrempf played 35, Hawkins played 35 and GP played 40. Exactly how is that any different from the Suns, except for the 15 minutes played by inferior players were with the starters allowing Perkins to be a scoring option with the second unit instead of the 5th option on the court with the starters and allowed for the team to have a guy with a bit more size to face the other teams starting C.
Phoenix playing small ball would have been crushed by the Heat. If Desagna Diop can look servicable against them, imagine what the Diesel would have done.
June 5th, 2006 at 10:31 am
Yes Dobbs it has been going on for a while. The shooting 4 may have gotten a boost from the three point shot introduction and Bird and later Peja. Tweeners age into 4s. 4 have been made 5s for awhile too. Probably always have but more so since mid90s. Perkins was an early one. Jermaine ONeal a prominent recent one.
June 5th, 2006 at 11:29 am
“I don’t see that both Petro and Swift panning out, along with Collison mostly being a non-factor, so honestly I’m all for trading Collison and giving Petro a minor role. I’m not sure why everyone thinks all 4 of the guys we have at PF/C right now are the answer.”
Care to expand a little? I think it’s a great rotation. If the Sonics are getting double-double production out of the C spot between Swift & Petro at 20 years old, that’s a problem a lot of teams would like to have.
Collison is a nice change of pace from Wilcox as well. I guess I’m not seeing what a Shelden Williams would really bring to this team other than being a slow footed, slightly undersized halfcourt offense player on a team that plays best in the open court.
June 5th, 2006 at 12:23 pm
Scott,
— Yes and the Sonics played pretty good when he went with that style, right? Imagine how much better they would have been if they wouldn’t have gone out and signed McIlvaine and tried to fit him into a system that didn’t work?
Steve,
— I completely agree with you on the Williams draft pick. In the mock draft thread there is also talk of us drafting this O’Bryant kid and to me that makes even less sense. I’m more than OK keeping Nick around and playing him about 20-25 minutes a game as the back up and continuing to develop the Cs. We are essentially set at the PF/C position for the next 5 years if we resign Wilcox this summer.
June 5th, 2006 at 12:46 pm
It might be a big mistake for the Sonics to discount what Shelden Williams (or trading up for Tyrus Thomas) could bring to this team. Both of those players already have a defensive skill set and mind set. Expecting that Wilcox, Swift and Petro will develop into good defensive players might just be wishful thinking.
June 5th, 2006 at 1:25 pm
“Yes and the Sonics played pretty good when he went with that style, right? Imagine how much better they would have been if they wouldn’t have gone out and signed McIlvaine and tried to fit him into a system that didn’t work?”
There’s a reason the Sonics signed McIlvaine. With that reason you’ll find your answer as to why picking up someone like him made a ton of sense. He wasn’t the right guy, but the plan was sound.
June 5th, 2006 at 1:48 pm
“I’m not seeing what a Shelden Williams would really bring to this team other than being a slow footed, slightly undersized halfcourt offense player on a team that plays best in the open court. ”
He’s more a defensive player than offensive…that would be what he brings. Shot blocking and rebounding. Plus an improving offensive game. To me, he’s the reverse of Wilcox, and that’s cool. I was very disappointed with Collison this year, and with Evans/Fortson (basically)/Vlad gone, bringing in another power player is not a bad option. He’s not really undersized for a PF, either.
Have we beaten this to death yet?
June 5th, 2006 at 2:39 pm
Does only having one player on your team that is focused on defense make sense? No matter how good he is he won’t singlehandedly make the other four players he plays with a better defensive team. Being able to do that would be a pretty difficult item to task a rookie who was drafted with the 10th pick.
June 5th, 2006 at 4:51 pm
“No matter how good he is he won’t singlehandedly make the other four players he plays with a better defensive team.”
Not necessarily true, Myk. The Kings team defense did an about face after trading for Artest.
June 5th, 2006 at 5:32 pm
Dick,
— So you are comparing Williams to the best defensive player in the NBA??? This point would also count the point made above that good defense only comes from having defensively strong big men, which was used as a reason to draft Williams as well.
June 5th, 2006 at 5:52 pm
Myk - No, but your statement sounded like an absolute.
Defense has got to start somewhere, even if it’s only one player at a time. I really want the Sonics to draft a defender, whether it’s someone like Brewer on the wing or the Landlord in the post.
June 5th, 2006 at 9:49 pm
Dick,
— I think drafting someone with the expectation he is a defensive stopper is pretty suspect. In fact I don’t really know of a player that has been drafted in the last few years that became a true impact defensive player..
Scott,
— Why was his signing “mandatory”? It was “mandatory” if you followed the old school vision of how a team should be built, which required that you had a “big shot blocking/rebounding” center. This was despite all the facts to the contrary that showed that the Sonics played better without those types of players. I’m not sure why this isn’t help prove my point that you might as well just go with the players that best fit your style as opposed to remaining in the old school of thinking that you need certain players at each position.
June 5th, 2006 at 9:52 pm
I would say that a move like signing McIlvaine would be the same as Phoenix deciding this year that they needed to sign some like Pryzbilla to their team. They appear to be smarter than that though…and they luck out since they don’t have the cap space to be tempted
June 6th, 2006 at 6:35 am
Following up on Scott’s comment, the Suns actually missed Kurt Thomas in the playoffs.
Myk, I’m not sure why you’ve extrapolated the argument for Sheldon Williams into some expectation that he would be a defensive stopper, or that he would need to “singlehandedly make the other four players he plays with a better defensive team.”
A rebounder/shot blocker that plays good defense with a developing offensive game as a #10 pick would be a pretty good thing. That’s really the argument…no one said that Williams will be the next coming of Mourning.
You also sound like you’ve given up on the concept of adding defense, or the only defense that will make any difference is from a wing player. I just can’t buy that argument.
I would love for a Wade or Pierce to fall to us. The only person that is potentially like that seems to be Morrison (i.e., has some negatives so he could drop, but also has a high possible upside). If someone does not fall, though, Williams would be a good “piece” (and that’s it…to your point, he shouldn’t be expected to make the Sonics a great defensive team all by himself).
June 6th, 2006 at 10:10 am
Scott:
— It seems like the Sonics proved time and time again that having a big center was not necessary to beat Shaq and his Laker team. We always had a pretty shot against the team because we were smart enough to realize that all you need to do is pick and roll him to death.
— I didn’t know that every single WC team went out and signed a big white stiff for a larger contract than they were even paying their best player at the time. Honestly, is there really any way to justify this signing? When they signed him were you really that excited? At least for me I saw the fact that he barely played and realized that there was a pretty good chance that will fail.
— What are you talking about “that was 8 years ago man”? Are you trying to say that I can’t call something an old school vision because something happened 8 years ago? I mean correct me if I am wrong but the thought of having 2Gs, 2Fs and 1C goes back much farther than 8 years ago…
— You are right that trade for Kurt Thomas probably was a big suspect. For as much as he contributed throughout the year the Suns had basically the same record when he got injured than when he played. He obviously was not a difference maker. There were also other factors that appeared to lower their record while they were out (fatigue and a rather difficult schedule being two)
Kivman:
— My point is that you already have four young power players so why draft another one? There are only so many minutes for everyone to play. On top of that, if we are going to continue to have Luke, Ray and Rashard playing the majority of your Backcourt minutes then it really doesn’t seem like adding one young player is going to make a difference from a defensive standpoint. If instead we were a team like say Utah who liked to play a slow grind it out offense/defense then Williams would be a better fit.
June 6th, 2006 at 10:59 am
“It might be a big mistake for the Sonics to discount what Shelden Williams (or trading up for Tyrus Thomas) could bring to this team. Both of those players already have a defensive skill set and mind set. Expecting that Wilcox, Swift and Petro will develop into good defensive players might just be wishful thinking. ”
Fair point, although whether or not Thomas’ or Williams’ defensive prowess translates to the next level is also in question … I’m just saying our team is built to play at a fast pace and I don’t see Williams fitting in as well with that. He’s a better fit for a halfcourt team that can set up its defense. I could see Williams getting really abused in the transition game at the NBA level, not saying he will for sure, just saying I could see it happen. In other words I think he’s more like latter-day Brian Grant than Ben Wallace. Or Okafor, for that matter. YMMV.
June 6th, 2006 at 5:42 pm
Myk,
I don’t think it’s wise to have everyone on the team geared towards one style of play. You have to have options when you face a team capable of taking you out of your prefered style.
Dampier and Diop don’t really fit the Mavericks style, but I bet you’ll see quite a bit of them against the Heat.
June 7th, 2006 at 10:29 am
“Dampier and Diop don’t really fit the Mavericks style, but I bet you’ll see quite a bit of them against the Heat. ”
But they do fit the Mavs style. Both of those guys can run the floor and prevent opponents from sticking a physical defender on Dirk. That’s their role.
“I don’t think it’s wise to have everyone on the team geared towards one style of play. You have to have options when you face a team capable of taking you out of your prefered style. ”
It’s a balancing act though. What stlye do you think Shelden thrives in? He’s not a post up player and even if he was the Sonics aren’t going to put in an entire set of plays giving him the ball on the block. They’ll expect him to be a garbage man, grab rebs and score off putbacks … you can find guys to do that in the second round or in summer league … not necessary to spend the #10 pick on that.
June 7th, 2006 at 11:43 am
Dick,
— I don’t necessarily disagree with your feeling. HOwever, the Sonics apparently do since all their players seem to be of the All O No D variety. So one different player won’t make much of a diference
June 7th, 2006 at 11:43 am
“They’ll expect him to be a garbage man, grab rebs and score off putbacks”
You make him sound like Haslem or Evans. The dude plays DEFENSE, something the Sonics need.
Shelden isn’t any slower than Collison. Since when does a 6′9 guy block 4 a game in the ACC and people start referring to him as slow and unathletic?
We’re talking about a guy that potentially changes the whole makeup of the squad in a positive fashion. A guy who’ll stop the other team from scoring, the clear problem for this team. I’ll take scoring 2 less points a game if we can prevent 4 PPG from the opponent.
That’s the type of player you’re taking a chance on. You’re going for broke with a big man instead of picking up a roleplaying swing player. Why Shelden’s being overlooked is beyond me. Maybe people don’t see the value in this type of player this year. Good players drop all the time, this could be your next Ben Wallace. There’s less downside to getting a physical defensive post player than anything else.
June 7th, 2006 at 12:26 pm
Dobbs:
— Correct me if I am wrong but Shelden Williams has never played in the NBA and on top of that unless you are super athletic (see jump very high) do you block that many shots when you are 6′9″. Wallace is an obvious special scenario as no one else has ever matched what he does.
June 7th, 2006 at 3:52 pm
Shelden Williams = Marcus Fizer more than Big Ben. That’s my two cents anyways. Block rates in college rarely translate to the NBA level.
June 7th, 2006 at 6:47 pm
“Block rates in college rarely translate to the NBA level.”
How about backing that up with just the slightest bit of evidence.
Sure someone playing for Colgate has a shot at blocking 6 a game and it doesn’t translate to the NBA, but the ACC? It doesn’t translate directly, but obviously blocked shots will translate on some level.
June 8th, 2006 at 1:45 pm
I would like to see in the last 10 years a rookie who has come in and been in the top five in blocks. When we get that list we can compare the reputations of the players at draft time. On top of that I am not sure why we should hold that much value in per/48 numbers with something like blocks where if a guy plays 16 minutes and gets one block he has pretty high number, in the grand scheme of things one block really isn’t that big of a deal.
June 8th, 2006 at 4:18 pm
“I would like to see in the last 10 years a rookie who has come in and been in the top five in blocks.”
K, feel free to look and let us know.
“On top of that I am not sure why we should hold that much value in per/48 numbers with something like blocks where if a guy plays 16 minutes and gets one block he has pretty high number”
Per 48 numbers are relative values which give you the efficiency at which players play. What use are per game values when someone may just get a lot of blocks because they play 40 minutes a game?
“in the grand scheme of things one block really isn’t that big of a deal.”
In the grand scheme of things, if you’re looking at the one block and thinking that’s the only defensive play that player made to benefit his team’s defense, then you don’t at all understand the concept I’m stressing with drafting Shelden or acquiring any other shot-blocker.
June 8th, 2006 at 5:30 pm
And now to apply my research to recent draftpicks…
Emeka Okafor is predicted to block 3.6 per 48 and blocked 2.3 his 1st season, 2.7 in his 2nd.
Channing Frye is predicted to block 2.1 per 48 and blocked 1.4 his 1st season.
And as it figures, my research doesn’t do much given the context of the new NBA. The last 5 years the top shot-blocker in the NBA didn’t top 3.65 blocks per game. That occurred only once between 1983 and 2001. The ever-increasing number of 3-pointers being shot plays a major part in this.
But at the same time, all the top shot-blockers in the NBA from 97 to 2006 also litter the top defensive rated players (courtesy Dean Oliver). So while they’re not blocking the same number of shots, players who deflect or change shots are the center-piece to the best defenses in the league and generally to championship teams.
June 9th, 2006 at 1:56 pm
— Sorry, it is these same per/48 minute numbers that were used as a justification for signing Calvin Booth and Jim McIlvaine. If the guy is only going to play 15 minutes a game he can get lucky many times to effect those numbers.
— Was Frye or Okafor responsible for making his team very good on the defensive end? I don’t think you can even compare Okafor because he played 34mpg for his team and Williams won’t do that for the Sonics. Frye might be a more reasonable comparison and his effect was felt much more on the offensive end of the court than the defensive end. On top of that, both of those players seemed to be more highly regarded coming out of college. Have there been any defensive stoppers who came out of college with relatively little fanfare??
— I still think most people are aruging that he doesn’t fit with this team, not that he is some horrible player.
June 9th, 2006 at 4:57 pm
“On top of that, both of those players seemed to be more highly regarded coming out of college. Have there been any defensive stoppers who came out of college with relatively little fanfare??”
Frye was seen as a late-lotto/mid-1st round pick, hardly major fanfare.
“I still think most people are aruging that he doesn’t fit with this team”
Collison doesn’t fit with the team either if Shelden doesn’t. So I don’t get this point.
“Sorry, it is these same per/48 minute numbers that were used as a justification for signing Calvin Booth and Jim McIlvaine.”
Part of our poor defense this past season was the lack of shot-blocking. Who were we missing? Sadly the exact guy I didn’t want to re-sign… Jerome James.
Thank god JJ is gone. Petro and Swift are learning, but there’s no guarantee they’ll ever turn out to be what we need in the middle.
As for Booth, he didn’t have the strength or rebounding to play the paint well, something that can’t be said about Shelden. And on top of that, the problem with Booth was he was injured the first 2 seasons we had him. Who knows what he could’ve done when healthy… He certainly played a major role in the playoffs for Dallas the season before we signed him, similar to how Diop has this year. I’m sure teams would line up just the same to sign Diop now.
“I don’t think you can even compare Okafor because he played 34mpg for his team and Williams won’t do that for the Sonics.”
This is a stupid argument against using per 48. What matters is how effective a player is while they’re on the court. OBVIOUSLY they won’t block the number of shots you see per 48 minutes since it’s relative to minutes played. THE WHOLE POINT IS RELATIVITY.
Who cares if a guy blocks 2 shots a game if he plays 48 minutes? We want the guy who blocks 2 shots a game in 24 minutes.
June 9th, 2006 at 7:14 pm
— I don’t disagree that Collison doesn’t really fit the team too much. However, he does have a little bit more versatile of a game and we already have him so there isn’t much we can do there.
— You keep talking about Shelden’s skills as if he is a proven veteran and have done all this in the NBA. Just like I can’t say he won’t perform in the NBA you can’t insist that he will perform in the NBA since he has never played there.
— I wasn’t using Okafor as an argument against p/48. That was an argument on the difference of overall effectiveness to the team. You want Williams to come in and be this big change for the team and it won’t happen in 16 m/pg, but if someone had the reputation as Okafor might.
— Sorry p/48 minute scores do not allow relativity. I know it seems like it does that, but it doesn’t. They only show relativity to like players, which means you can only show how Williams did as compared to other players in relatively the same situation.
In the NBA it is even worse to use those numbers especially when trying to take a bench player for another team and say that his performance will translate into better performance with larger minutes. This is because there is usually a reason why he didn’t play more minutes in the first place. All the things you listed about Booth are why he only played 10m/pg before we signed him, but the management staff used those p/48 stats to say that he would be this great player as a starter.
You can use the stats but you need to be extremely careful when you make conclusions about them.
June 10th, 2006 at 9:51 am
Yet you continue to make no conclusion at all…
June 10th, 2006 at 10:05 am
And what continues to be missed is the PREMISE of the idea. I’m basing what Shelden COULD DO based on what’s he’s done in the college ranks and how that translates to the NBA level. All the top shot-blockers in the NBA were also top shot-blockers in college, high school or Europe.
If we want to improve our defense, then do it by starting in the paint, just like every other top team except Phx has done.
There are NO GUARANTEES in the draft. Shelden Williams could end up being the best player of this class or he could end up the biggest bust we’ve ever seen. It’s just like any other draft. But the good news is we have 4 years of college to judge him by. That means his upside past what we’ve seen is more limited, but at the same time we know he’s consistent in defending the paint, his offense is improved to the point where he’s not creating a 4 on 5 situation like Evans, or B Wallace.
At this point I look at the #10 pick and ask myself… could we use Ben Wallace or Dwayne Wade more on our team? With Allen and Lewis here, I shoot for the Ben Wallace type of player, especially since I’ve no idea who would be considered Wade in this draft.
If a POTENTIAL shot-blocking stud that could change the dynamic of this team doesn’t fit “our style”, then it’s probably time we change “our style”, just like Dallas did when acquiring Dampier, Terry, Harris, Diop and Stackhouse for Walker, Jamison and NVE.
That new style got them to the NBA finals, whereas before they always came up short without someone defending the paint.
June 19th, 2008 at 1:24 am
legal bud
You\’ve intrigued me. A shop here in NYC sells their Pinot Noir and Sauvignon Blanc, so I\’m going to check them out. How unusual!