Money Madness
Posted on Monday, September 11th, 2006 at 9:43 pm by Joe Newell
You might not have noticed today that Drew Gooden of the Cavaliers finally inked the 3 year/23 Million dollar contract that he agreed to last month. It made the news on August 11th that he had agreed in principal to the contract. Four days later, Chris Wilcox agreed to, and shortly thereafter signed his 3 year/24 Million dollar deal with the Sonics. Gooden and Wilcox are comparable players, and the market bore comparable deals. The Gooden deal was a good thing for Seattle in its negotiations with Wilcox because earlier in the free agent season, many thought Denver blew apart the salary structure for free agent Power Forwards by giving Nene a ridiculous 6 year/60 Million dollar deal. Many here on SC.com were dumbfounded when Nene’s deal was announced. First and foremost Nene missed all of last season with a major knee injury, which may or may not allow him to be at full speed this season. Secondly, it’s not like Nene is an all star or anything. He’s a decent, serviceable PF whose best season was 03-04 when he averaged 11.8 pts/6.5 rebs in 32mpg. He has career numbers of 10.7 pts/6.2 rebs. The third reason this signing was a head scratcher is that Denver already has Kenyon Martin under contract at the PF spot to the tune of 71 million dollars over the next 5 years if he exercises his player option for the 2010-11 season.
So the bloated Nene contract seems like madness to me in light of Denver’s contractual obligation to K-mart. To make matters worse, Denver recently signed Reggie Evans to a 5 year contract reported to be around 22 million; and finally, earlier this summer, Denver traded Ruben Patterson to Milwaukee for veteran PF Joe Smith, who is in the last year of his contract, and will be paid 6.8 Million for this season.
Denver’s Power Forward stable looks like this:
Player $06/07 $07/08 $08/09 $09/10 $10/11 $11/12
K. Martin 12,068,18 13,250,000 14,431,818 15,613,636 16,545,455option
Nene 7,920,792 8,752,475 9,584,158 10,415,842 11,247,525 12,079,208
R. Evans 3,965,500 4,282,759 4,600,000 4,917,241 5,234,483
Joe Smith 6,807,000
As you can see, the Nuggets will be paying 33 Million to Power Forwards in the 2010-11 season barring trades. I just don’t think any of these guys are “game changers”, and I don’t see the wisdom of the signings. None of them can play the SF position, and wouldn’t anyway because of Carmelo Anthony. Did I mention that Marcus Camby still has 41 Million over the next 4 years owed to him by Denver as the Center of record? Perhaps Nene could man the middle a bit if Camby goes down, but I don’t see him being really effective for big minutes at the Center spot.
In the final analysis, I am happy with the reasonable contract that Wilcox signed last month. Nick Collison will be looking to extend soon seeing that he is in the last year of his contract. Nick is a perfect compliment to Wilcox, because they do different things, and it seems likely that it won’t break the bank to sign him to a contract along the lines of Reggie’s deal. If and when that happens, the PF position will be set for the next few years, without the albatross contracts dished out this season to big men (see Denver and Chicago with the Ben Wallace signing); leaving us in a good spot financially. This to me is just good financial sense. I don’t see it as being cheap, like the Supes have been accused of by many. Granted, I see Ben Wallace as a game changer, but he is 32 years old, and his game is predicated on his incredible leaping and athleticism. It can’t last forever. Chicago is swinging for the fence.
I just don’t see Nene and Reggie being the Missing pieces that send Denver deep into the playoffs; at least not enough to justify the huge contracts.
September 11th, 2006 at 10:05 pm
Yep, I have to agree. Denver seems like it is trying to make GSW and the Knicks look more competent.
Big Chris
September 11th, 2006 at 10:12 pm
Martin played some of his time at SF in New Jersey earlier.
But these 4 are really Denver’s powerforwards and centers along with Camby and 2 others. That size group for the 2 big positions is normal. The Sonics also have 7.
The pricetags may be high but it is a conscious choice to put money there, with Anthony still cheap. Their dependence on cheap SGs can be questioned but shooters are much more availabe and can be found cheap. Cheap and very good dont often go together anywhere but SG is the most likely place it can work if you have a good eye.
Sonics last season spent around $49 million which was one of lowest. With Wilcox and salary creep it looks like 06-07 Sonics will spend around $59 million. That should still be lower half. The old regime probably sold now in part because they were indeed unwilling to increase deficit spending by $10 million. Not sure how Sonic will look vs other teams opening day or next summer. Luxury cap still $6 million away right now. It is possible to re-sign Collison and Ridnour and stay a few million away form it because of Fortson’s contract ending. Could give Lewis a raise and still fit but starts to get close and luxury tax could be an issue for Sonics by 2008-9 or 2009-10 depending on amount of league revenue growth and if they keep all the current roster except Fortson.
September 11th, 2006 at 10:15 pm
Denver would have 8 bigs if Jamal Sampson makes it.
Kleiza played more PF last season but might get shifted more to SF next.
September 11th, 2006 at 10:24 pm
Anthony’s new deal doesnt kick in until 2007-8. One or more of these bigs will probably be gone.
Smith’s contract ends next spring.
Najera could be dealt. Evans would seem to supplant him.
September 11th, 2006 at 10:35 pm
On the surface it seems they overpaid for Hilario but we dont know for sure if any other team gave signs they would have made an equal or bigger offer to Nene. Perhaps Chicago would have made a play for him over aginf Ben Wallace, or Atlanta or Charlotte might have shown interest. I dopnt know just saying it is possible.
Could he be as good as B Miller or E Curry? I doubt it but I think they think he has that potential. 24 years, 260 lbs with past signs of good defense.
Still the record shows PF is a better position for him than center.
September 11th, 2006 at 10:39 pm
On defense. The record is mixed on offense.
September 11th, 2006 at 10:47 pm
July 1
Dime Magazine
“Free agent Nene is reportedly getting interest from the Hawks, Bulls and Raptors. If Nene bounces back from last year’s injury, that will be a huge pickup for whoever grabs him …”
http://tinyurl.com/k4mpw
September 11th, 2006 at 10:48 pm
Not sure if his deal has incentives. I would think there is a good chance it does.
September 12th, 2006 at 3:08 am
I made an article about Denver for my blog three days ago
I really don’t understand their policy :
Martin+Nene+Smith+Evans+Najera ??????
September 12th, 2006 at 4:47 am
Perkins resigned with Boston for 4 years and 4 millions $ per season ?
He is not excellent but is a yound and decent center, signing him for so “little” money is an interesting deal
He wasn’t far from the level of our Teen Towers last year
September 12th, 2006 at 4:54 am
is it me or the Big Men market is calming down a bit ?
Pryzbilla, Mohammed, Perkins, Wilcox and Gooden…
Seems reasonable to me if you except Denver and Big Ben
September 12th, 2006 at 4:58 am
“what are the odds of that happening when you have iron men like Kenyon Martin, Marcus Camby, Nene, in front of him.”
-thats classic!
September 12th, 2006 at 8:45 am
I guess we’re critiquing Denver, are we? Then like everyone else, I’m confused about what they’ve done.
I have no problem with them wanting to keep Nene(not Hilario anymore TK). Even with him coming off a bad knee injury, he’s young, talented, has athleticism to go along with size, and proved that when given starters minutes he produces. The fact that there were other teams like the Bulls and Hawks out there that probably would have overpaid if they had a shot at him meant Denver had to give him more than his worth. And as mentioned Nene can play center as well.
I think where it all falls to pieces is that the Nuggets can’t find a trading partner to unload Kenyon Martin for a shooting guard. I have to wonder about who is running the show now that Kiki Vanderweighe is gone? Are the Nuggets gambling that they will be able to trade Martin?
They better hope so. Joe Smith is a player I always felt was undervalued. He has always been a stable, reliable force at power forward, and can aslo play a little small forward as well, ala Al Harrington. He puts up respectable numbers every season. He’s had a bit of a negative label on him ever since the Timberwolves deal, which wasn’t his fault. Like Juwan Howard and the overbloated contract he had while with Washington, people look at him as the bad guy that used up the teams salary and because of him they couldn’t get other players.I can’t recall the exact cheating of the rules about signing one year for less money to then be rewarded later but it cost Minnesota heavily in the draft. Once aging Sam Cassel and Latrel Spreewell were gone they had no good young players to step in. But Joe Smith for Ruben Patterson is a good deal for Denver talent wise although finding playing time for Smith is puzzling for sure.
So that leaves the Reggie Evans situation. I think Smith is as good a rebounder as Evans and has far more offense. So why the need to sign Evans? For the life of me I can’t answer that one. Martin, Nene, Smith, and Evans has totally left the Nuggets with an unbalanced forntline. If Marcus Camby does go down with and injury, then what? Nene gets the call as the starting center I guess, but it’s not his natural position. Come to think of it, Camby’s natural position is power forward as well.
I don’t care since Denver is a rival of the Sonics, and I’m kind of glad they’ve shot themselves in the foot commiting alot of money to cover one position. Unless they can unload Martin for a high priced shooting guard then the Nuggets won’t be able to afford any big free agents for the next little while.
September 12th, 2006 at 9:30 am
“I really don’t understand their policy :
Martin+Nene+Smith+Evans+Najera ?????? ”
Easy. Now Karl’s got the option to have his patented rotating doghouse so if the team tanks he has someone to blame besides himself.
September 12th, 2006 at 10:51 am
“Could he be as good as B Miller or E Curry?”
$10M/yr with the hopes of some day being as good as Eddy Curry? Shoot for the stars!
September 12th, 2006 at 11:01 am
Denver must have a way out of paying Martin…It is the only why this makes any sense. (Still not very much.)
With Martin out of the picture they could throw out a linup that looks like this:
C: Camby / Nene
PF: Nene / Evens
SF: Melo / Smith
SG: J.R. Smith / Miller
PG: Miller / Boykins
They would be ok with that lineup plus what ever they could get for Martin.
Anyway, if they can’t move Martin ( and who wants him really?) I just can’t believe Denver would be so stupid.
September 12th, 2006 at 11:17 am
An article that hits on a few of the points of this thread:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/5957186
“4. The news at the end of the week for the Denver Nuggets was about the five-year deal to retain blue-collar forward Reggie Evans. But the bigger deal came earlier last week when they named interim general manager Mark Warkentien vice president of basketball operations and general manager.
What this really means: Warkentien has spent the better part of 15 years finding talent and creating success in the NBA. He was at the heart of what the Seattle Sonics built in the early and mid-1990s, move down to Portland to rebuild the Blazers into a perennial 50-win team and even helped retool the Cleveland Cavaliers in the right direction.
And now he’s back with his old buddy from Seattle — coach George Karl — running the show in Denver. Sometimes, the good guys don’t ever get a break. In this case, Warkentien weathered the storm long enough to get his due.
The Nuggets won their first division title in two decades last season but were disappointing considering their more impressive run the year before. They still are disjointed on the personnel side because Kenyon Martin’s attitude and maximum contract is in the way. But don’t think for a moment that Warkentien can’t come up with an answer. This is his time in the sun, and he’s spent too many years in the shade not to be ready for this opportunity to shine.”
-+-+-+-+-
“Including guard/forwards Eddie Badsden, Luke Jackson, Ira Newble and Sasha Pavlovic, the Cavs now have a whopping nine guards. They drafted Shannon Brown from Michigan State and Texas’ Daniel Gibson; plus they already have high-priced shooting guard Larry Hughes, veteran Eric Snow and Stephen Graham.
Somewhere along the line, general manager Danny Ferry must fix this imbalance for bright young coach Mike Brown. This team has to create some balance to go along with the brilliant play of LeBron James — even if Gooden, Anderson Varejao and Zydrunas Ilgauskas all have their moments. The point is, the team has to prove it can battle teams inside as well watching James create magic. Flexibility out on the floor is one thing — lacking enough big players is something else entirely; and you’ve got to believe Ferry has something up his sleeve — and soon.”
-+-+-+-+-
Seems this would make the Cavs and Nuggs logical trading partners.
September 12th, 2006 at 1:18 pm
I live in Denver and Nuggets fans are just as bewildered/pissed by the way the front office has composed the roster and the contracts they have signed. Just like last year, there are rumors that the signings made the summer were made to set up a forthcoming trade for a big time SG. After Watson signed with Denver last summer, the big rumor was that it was to set up a Miller and Martin trade for Paul Pierce. I personally don’t think the Nuggets need a top flight SG and would acually be best served by trading for a versatile G who is a good enough 3pt shooter to keep the D honest, but doesn’t necessarily need the ball to be effective- IMO Marko Jaric would be perfect for them and he hasn’t really fit in with the T-Wolves.
September 12th, 2006 at 3:26 pm
Well, Derek Anderson was just cut by Miami. He’s no all-star, but he has had some great games that I have seen when he was with Portland. It wouldn’t surprise me to see him in Denver. He just hasn’t been healthy in a long time.
September 12th, 2006 at 3:53 pm
For the record I really do believe that Seattle had its deal in place with Wicox to set the market for Gooden, not the other way around.
The Sonics had made their decision on this contract terms long before it was announced. They agreed in principle to a conract on Friday but held off the announcement until Tuesday. Cleveland got wind of the contract friday morning and by Saturday their plans had already leaked to the press.
I guess the Nene signing would have made some minimal amount of sense had he not been a restricted free agent. The fact that they had the right to match any offer just made it silly to give him the big deal so early on. The ABSOLUTE WORST CASE SCENARIO was for him to get a $60 million offer somewhere and they would have to decide to match it. Given his injury history the reality is that he would have gotten even less interest than Wilcox and likely have signed a similar deal to Chris. Dumb move for the Nuggets who seem to be getting one of those crazy rosters that works better on NBA Live than they do in real games.
The Denver/Cleveland angle seems to make a lot of sense. Wouldn’t George Karl just wet himself to trade for Erik Snow, start Miller at the SG position and not have a single player capable of making a jumpshot?
I’ll just never like George Karl
September 12th, 2006 at 3:58 pm
“I have to wonder about who is running the show now that Kiki Vanderweighe is gone?”
Warkentien was a buddy of Grgrich from UNLV days and as I recall was an advance scout for the Sonics, not a personnel guy as Kahn suggests. Figures that Kahn wouldn’t waste any time kissing his rear end as he does with anyone associated with George Karl. He was appointed back in May when Karl drove a wedge between Vandeweghe and owner Stan Kroenke in his usual manner.
So Warkentien’s moves so far are :
- Signing Carmelo Anthony to a five-year, $79 million extension. That’s a no-brainer.
- Re-signing Nene to a six-year, $60 million contract, easily the worst deal handed out this offseason and maybe in the last couple of years.
- Trading Howard Eisley and two second-round picks in 2007 for J.R. Smith. Low risk trade that could pay off down the road.
- Signs Jamal Sampson. Meh.
- Trading Ruben Patterson for Joe Smith. The Nuggs had to get rid of Patterson since he crossed Karl and got his minutes cut or risk him being a distraction. Smith was a good replacement, both were in the last year of their current deals. So, a decent deal, but still one done out of desperation.
So, going into his tenure the Nuggets pretty much needed a shooter to round out the roster and improve on last year’s team. Of the 5 moves he made, not one addressed that need. But, he gets along with Karl and we all know George’s trust issues.
September 12th, 2006 at 4:12 pm
I did not know that Nene was a RESTRICTED free agent. That really makes the deal unbelievable.
September 12th, 2006 at 5:43 pm
“So, going into his tenure the Nuggets pretty much needed a shooter to round out the roster and improve on last year’s team. Of the 5 moves he made, not one addressed that need. ”
The third move you mentioned…
“- Trading Howard Eisley and two second-round picks in 2007 for J.R. Smith. Low risk trade that could pay off down the road”
…might address this need. J.R. Smith is actually a good shooter. He shot 37% from 3-point range and 82% from the free throw line last year.
Smith is still very young (21 on 11/9/06) and was highly rated coming out of high school. He hasn’t put up any consistent numbers at the NBA level, but potentially he could solve the problem.
Like you mentioned, this deal could be considered a huge steal for the Nuggets down the road. However, I wouldn’t hold my breathe. Smith got off to a rough start with Byron Scott and never recovered. Considering NO/OK gave up on such a young talent so soon, should raise some red flags for Denver.
September 12th, 2006 at 7:35 pm
In reference to the Cleveland Cavaliers and the Denver Nuggets, this http://realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=3368663 makes the most sense.
Along with Drew Gooden and Donyell Marshall, Joe Smith would form a versatile, yet expensive trio at power forward in Cleveland; meanwhile, along with Andre Miller and Earl Boykins, Eric Snow would form a durable, albeit costly trio at point guard in Denver.
The only thing that might prevent the aforementioned trade proposal from being consummated, however, is the fact that Smith’s contract expires after next season, while Snow’s contract expires after the 2008-2009 season.
In the meantime, though, shooting guard Bonzi Wells should serious consider signing a one-year, $1,065,918 contract with the Nuggets. At this juncture, it’s is highly unlikely that Wells will be offered a long-term contract by any team during this off-season.
In 2003, Stephen Jackson made a similar decision by signing a one-year, $1,000,000 contract with the Atlanta Hawks. Jackson did it because no team would sign him to a long-term contract. In the end, ultimately, Jackson signed a six-year, $38 million contract with the Indiana Pacers during the following off-season; therefore, everything worked out for him.
Anyway, the following are projected rosters for both the Cavaliers and the Nuggets:
CLEVELAND CAVALIERS
Center: Zydrunas Illgauskas
Center: Anderson Varejao
Center: Scot Pollard
Power Forward: Drew Gooden
Power Forward: Donyell Marshall
Power Forward: Joe Smith
Small Forward: LeBron James
Small Forward: Ira Newble
Small Forward: Luke Jackson
Shooting Guard: Larry Hughes
Shooting Guard: Shannon Brown
Shooting Guard: Aleksander Pavlovic
Point Guard: David Wesley
Point Guard: Damon Jones
Point Guard: Daniel Gibson
DENVER NUGGETS
Center: Marcus Camby
Center: Maybyner “Nené” Hilario
Center: Jamal Sampson
Power Forward: Kenyon Martin
Power Forward: Reggie Evans
Power Forward: Linas Kleiza
Small Forward: Carmelo Anthony
Small Forward: Eduardo Najera
Small Forward: Yakhouba Diawara
Shooting Guard: Bonzi Wells
Shooting Guard: J.R. Smith
Shooting Guard: Julius Hodge
Point Guard: Andre Miller
Point Guard: Earl Boykins
Point Guard: Eric Snow
Unless the Cavaliers manage to trade both Luke Jackson and Aleksander Pavlovic elsewhere, I expect that both Stephen Graham and Eddie Basden — who, as it is, have non-guaranteed contracts — will be waived by the team prior to the beginning of the regular season.
September 12th, 2006 at 11:31 pm
This is something new. Check out Sonic shot charts. 2005 season is last season.
http://www.nba.com/hotzones/popup.html
September 13th, 2006 at 5:40 am
Nice link TK; Petro surprises, pretty good numbers. Watson surprises,bad numbers.
September 13th, 2006 at 7:25 am
Well, Damien Wilkins’ shot chart indicates that he’s an atrociously bad field-goal shooter from outside of the key.
Henceforth, nobody can justifiably claim that Wilkins should play at either shooting guard or point guard for the Seattle Supersonics. Indeed, Wilkins should play strictly at small forward—there’s no denyin’ it!
September 13th, 2006 at 9:17 am
Lute - you’re correct about JR Smith.
I just didn’t figure that he’d crack Karl’s rotation for a while due to lack of experience and I thought Warkentien would be familiar enough with George’s history.
September 13th, 2006 at 9:20 am
Awesome link TK.
Actually, I thought Petro always had nice form on the 15 ft jumper.
And not to re-ignite the whole Earl/Luke debate but I think that page does support the contention that last season’s run by Earl was a bit of an aberration given his career numbers.
September 13th, 2006 at 9:50 am
Another point I found interesting is scoring for our C’s and PF’s. Swift, Petro, and Wilcox all shot much better from the left baseline while only Collison shot better at the right baseline and that was only at 41.7%
September 13th, 2006 at 10:30 am
Midrange is pretty weak for most players.
Nice if you have a big that can hit a 17 footer occasionally. Collison
took more from outside than the others last season and it was a big change from limited range exercised in 04-05. I hope his FG% continues to improve from distance. It would be encouraging to see Petro and Swift show a similar trend of greater confidence in the jumper. But of course we don’t want them to get too jumper content.
Watson’s 3 pointer is strong. Ridnour is a little on weak side finishing.
September 17th, 2006 at 1:11 pm
Joe - sorry for using the comment section for this but I can’t find an email address for you on this site. I was hoping to get someone from this site to come onto my podcast as a Sonics guest, could someone from your site email me at admin@hoopsaddict.com if you are interested in helping out? I can give you the full details at that point. Thanks for your time!
July 24th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
pari virtuel
renditions Williams:reacquired